1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and fifty five, 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: which is airing in late June of twenty twenty two. 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: I am going to be interviewing Lisa Segner about working 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: mom ambivalence. Not that Lisa is an ambivalent working mom now. 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: She's actually very into her job, her career. She has 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: a wonderful career in finance, going on, a lovely family 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 1: with two young boys. But she wanted to do this 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: episode and talk about ambivalence because she found the first 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: few months back at work after she had her first 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: child incredibly challenging, and as part of that challenging, she 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: really wondered if she was cut out to be a 21 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: working mom. She sort of assumed she would be, but 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: this transition was so difficult that it had her questioning 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: that and whether she should, you know, stop working, you know, 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: talking with her husband about whether that was feasible. But 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: then after the first few months, things got a lot better, 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: and she talks about how happy she was that she 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: hadn't made any life altering decisions in that state. And 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: so that's probably a message that I think a number 29 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: of our listeners will be very interested in hearing that, 30 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, those first few months can be incredibly challenging, 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: but that often things do get better, and that if 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: you are somebody who really does enjoy your career that 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 1: you did before kids, the fact that you don't enjoy 34 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: it for a couple of months is not necessarily a 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: sign that you need to stop doing it for the 36 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: rest of your working life. So just a little food 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: for the Sarah, how about you, did you know you 38 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: always wanted to be a working mom as you are now? 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: Like the poster child for working mother herehood here, best 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: of both worlds. Oh wow, we are poster children? Huh 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: you I don't know that I am, but you could 42 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: be well, yes, I think I always assumed that I 43 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: was going to work. I don't think I ever entertained 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: the idea that I would be a stay at home mom, 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: and yet I absolutely always knew I wanted children. So 46 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: even though I'm not sure I used the phrase working 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: mom in my head, if I knew I wanted to 48 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: have a job and I knew I wanted to have kids, 49 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: I guess that's what I was aiming for. I recently 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: published as I was turning forty two. I found a 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: blog post, my first birthday blog post published on my 52 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: blog when I was turning twenty five. I started the 53 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: blog at twenty four, just missed that birthday by a 54 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: couple months anyway, and I mentioned having a job that 55 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: I love and having two to three children. So clearly, 56 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: at least for quite some time, that was my plan. 57 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: I did entertain the idea of working part time at 58 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: various times in my life. I think, I, you know, 59 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: especially once I met Josh, I was a little bit 60 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: overwhelmed at the idea that we would both have, you know, 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: big careers, that whether that would be a manageable thing 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: or not. But you know, currently I'm more of a 63 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: full time person and plan on continuing that. So yeah, 64 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: that's pretty much was the plan. Yeah, excellent. Yeah, I 65 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: mean I guess I sort of mostly assumed I would 66 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: have kids at some point in my life, and I've 67 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: always wanted to be a writer. Of course, that's a 68 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: very sort of different career concept than something that's more 69 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: straightforward job description. So I'm not sure that I really 70 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: thought it through of exactly how this would all fit together. 71 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: But one thing I do know. I mean, I remember 72 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: very well when I was pregnant with Jasper hearing a 73 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of narratives about how everything changes once you become 74 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: a parent. You have absolutely no idea how you will feel, 75 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: and so you know, you just have to see how 76 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: it goes and see, you know, you like, even if 77 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: you think you want to continue in your career, like 78 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: everything changes, you know, you never know, And in my case, 79 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: there was not a whole lot of working mom ambivalence. 80 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: I have to say that, you know, I didn't like 81 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: that narrative of like everything changes, but I was willing 82 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: to acknowledge, like, I don't have a kid, what do 83 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 1: I know, So we'll wait and see how it goes. 84 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: And then I had my baby, and I felt like 85 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: me with a kid. So I mean, it's like I 86 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't have a whole lot of desire to do anything 87 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: differently than what I was doing, only also hang out 88 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: with my kid as well. And I mean that's where 89 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: I sort of developed the whole one hundred and sixty 90 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: eight hours concept because I realized as I started looking 91 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: into it and doing the math, that there was quite 92 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: a bit of time to be hanging out with my 93 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: kid and doing all these other things that I wish 94 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: to do as well. So you know, I kept singing 95 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: in my choir and running regularly and you know, writing 96 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: and certainly trying to build my career in that capacity. 97 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess, I mean, I don't know. I 98 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: guess I didn't necessarily think working mom either as a 99 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: as a kid. That wasn't my particular aspiration. But since 100 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: I felt I would probably have kids and I wanted 101 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: to do something, you know, in terms of having a career, 102 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: I guess the two went together. So there you go. 103 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: I wonder how many men get asked or told you 104 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: have no idea how you're going to feel after this 105 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: baby comes. Well, the crazy thing, I mean, even if 106 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: they do feel very differently, they're not allowed to write 107 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: like you know that they and in fact, in many 108 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: cases they're expected to step up. And I mean putting 109 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: in quotes here, be a man and like work more, 110 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: take a higher paying job so that their wife or 111 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: partner can work less or whatever. And I mean there's 112 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: there's all sorts of issues there we could unpack as well. 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: So you know, for women everything's supposed to change, and 114 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: for men it's not allowed to change. And if anything, 115 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: you need to like step it up, step it up right. 116 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: So many many bad messages out there, narratives that limits 117 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: us all anyway. So we're going to hear from Lisa 118 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: Sagner here on her working mom ambivalins and why she's 119 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: glad that she pushed through it and has built her 120 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: wonderful career in finance with her growing family. Well, Sarah 121 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: and I are delighted to welcome Lisa Sagner to the program. 122 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: She is a longtime Best of Both Worlds listener, which 123 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: is also commented on our blogs. We appreciate all her 124 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: comments there. So, Lisa, can you introduce yourself to our listeners? Sure? Great, Thanks, 125 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you, Laura. I'm excited to talk 126 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: to you. My name is Lisa Sagner. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, 127 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: and I work for an asset management company. I work 128 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: in finance. I'm a CFA charter holder Excel bond NERD extraordinary, 129 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: I guess, and I have two children. My youngest is 130 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: almost eighteen months and our oldest is four years old. 131 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Wonderful and so one of the reasons we really wanted 132 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: to talk with Lisa's she had some experiences with coming 133 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: back to work after having her first child that I 134 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: think I've probably a lot of people experienced, and so 135 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: we really wanted to talk about that. I mean, when 136 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: you were pregnant with your oldest son, I mean, what 137 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: did you think your experience with working parenthood would be. 138 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean, did you have a picture for what this 139 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: would look like? Yes, kind of. I mean through my 140 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: conversations with friends, I had children later in life. I 141 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: was thirty seven, almost thirty seven when I had or 142 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: just past thirty seven when I had our first child, 143 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: So you know, my friends had kids. In the Midwest, 144 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: people tend to get married younger and have children earlier. 145 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: So I was, you know, able to see what my friends' 146 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: careers were like after they had children, and you know, 147 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: there was kind of two stories like we had. I 148 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: had friends who were very excited to come back from 149 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: attorney to leave and very relieved to return to their 150 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: day to day life at work. And then I had 151 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of friends who decided to stop working, 152 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, went back to work for a while and 153 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: then stopped working. As some you know, planned to not 154 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: return to work, I didn't have as many conversations with 155 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: people who were you know, struggling with their return to work. 156 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: It seemed like they were either happy to be back 157 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: or they left the workforce. And similarly, I had a 158 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, a sister in law that went back to 159 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: work and then it stopped working. So I kind of 160 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: had these two ends of the spectrum, but not anyone 161 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: in the middle who you know, said they had a 162 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: hard time and then eventually, you know, it got better. 163 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: So I kind of I love my job, I love 164 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: my coworkers, so I expected to be fine with the 165 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: transition back to work that it. You know, it's hard 166 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: to envision before you have children how it's going to 167 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: impact your life. So I went into it expecting, fully, 168 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: expecting to go back to work. Never would have thought 169 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: i'd be a stay at home mom, and then you know, 170 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: it was kind of surprised by how much of a 171 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: struggle I had return into work. And I was fortunate 172 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: my company provided sixteen weeks of maternity leave. I was 173 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: able to I got four extra weeks using paid time off, 174 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: so a twenty week leave. So the baby was almost 175 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: five months when he started daycare. Our kids go to daycare, 176 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: so you know, I had an older baby. I wasn't 177 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: returning at twelve weeks like a lot of my friends 178 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: and family members have, but I still found the transition 179 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: back to be to be really hard. Well why don't 180 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: you talk about that a little bit? I mean, what 181 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: were the sort of practical aspects that were hard? I 182 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: mean one thing you mentioned is your son maybe not 183 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: napping as much during the day, so going to bed 184 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: early at night, so you know, going to an office 185 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: because that's what people did. Then I meant you weren't 186 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: seeing him that much during during the work or and 187 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: various other things like so why did you talk about 188 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: like those first few days back and you know why 189 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: you were suddenly thinking like am I going to do this? Sure? 190 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: So you know it's interesting, you know, the first day 191 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: of drop off at daycare. I didn't cry. I wasn't 192 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: you know. I felt like I was in the minority 193 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: in not crying at drop off. I totally trusted the daycare. 194 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: Our kids go to a Spanish immersion daycare, and I 195 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: know they an excellent job there. But I struggled with 196 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: just how little time we were getting with him. You know, 197 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: we were leaving the house at six point fifty, we 198 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: were getting home at five o'clock at night. At the beginning, 199 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: I remember in that that summer when he was five 200 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: months six months, he was barely sleeping at daycare. The 201 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: art well. The son ended up being just a horrible 202 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: napper during his time in the infant room, So for 203 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: a while there, we were putting him down for another 204 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: little nap when he got home from work, when we 205 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: got home from work, and then we'd wake him up 206 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: and we'd feed him, and then he'd go back to 207 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: bed like an hour or two, probably an hour later, 208 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: so we got maybe an hour with him in the evening. 209 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: And of course we had our weekends together, which you 210 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: know when when you look at your whole week as 211 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 1: a span. And I was a follower and reader of 212 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: your blog at that time, but you don't really realize, 213 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to have that perspective that, Okay, 214 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: well I'm still getting these long days with him on 215 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: the weekend. So this short period of time on weeknights, 216 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, in the grand scheme of things, isn't a 217 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: big deal. But in those early weeks, weeks and months 218 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: after I returned to work, it was really hard. And 219 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed my maternity leave. I also had, you know, 220 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: talk to friends who just were miserable during their matorney 221 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: to leave. They're just so it kind of is monotonous, 222 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: you know, every day is kind of the same day 223 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: over and over. But I think because my attorney leave 224 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: was in the summer, and summer is a great time 225 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, I really enjoyed, you know, taking walks with 226 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: him and all of all of that kind of thing 227 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: that we did together. So I enjoyed the time I 228 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: had with him, and then so jumping back into being gone, 229 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: you know, ten hours at least a day getting an 230 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: hour with him. And then he was a horrible sleeper too, 231 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: and he had you know, I ended up getting tubes 232 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: at nine months, so he was up like three to 233 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: five times a night in the fall, so my husband 234 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: and I were splitting those because I was exclusively pumping 235 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: for him, so that helped that, you know, we could 236 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: split the nights, but I was exhausted. I was getting 237 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: very little time with him. He was sick all the time, 238 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: which is probably you know, one of the biggest downsides 239 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: of using a daycare approach to childcare. But you know, 240 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: we're on the other end of that spectrum now and 241 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: he's much healthier and doesn't get sick nearly as often. 242 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: But those are kind of the main factors that you know, 243 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: made it difficult. And I also came my organization had 244 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: gone through some changes while I was out, so there 245 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: was a lot of uncertainty, and so I came back 246 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: at a time when people weren't sure like if there 247 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: was going to be layoffs or you know, things of 248 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: that nature, which is just very common in the financial 249 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: services industry, were an industry that's contracting. So add in 250 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: sort of some of that uncertainty and stress and then 251 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: missing my son during the day, you know, loathing pumping, 252 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: which you had a blog post about, you know, the 253 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: decision to pump or nurse for your child, and you know, 254 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: I decided to stick to it, and I was pumping, 255 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: you know, three times a day for most of that 256 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: you know, summer and fall. But that confluence of factors 257 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: just made me wonder, am I really meant to be 258 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: a working mother? And you know, am I fighting my 259 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: career is fulfilling as I should or does this mean 260 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: that I should leave the workforce? And I had a 261 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: lot of conversations with my husband about it, and he 262 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is like a very 263 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: short period of time, and you can't make a decision 264 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: that has such impact on our lives over such a 265 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: short period of time. So why don't you just like 266 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: stick it out, work through it. You know, there's not 267 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: a lot of finance jobs in our area, in Minneapolis's 268 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: and you know, a large financial sex you know center 269 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: like New York or other areas where it might be 270 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: easier to find a job if I regretted leaving the workforce. 271 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: So you know, he was just like, don't make any 272 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: rash decisions, just you know, talk about it with your friends, 273 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: talk about it with coworkers that you trust, and you know, 274 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: get through it. And then one thing that I did 275 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: that I think was really helpful, and that I've encouraged 276 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: other people to do. Is I strategically used paid time 277 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: off to get more time with him. So for the 278 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: final three months of that year, I took every other 279 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: Friday off so I would get, you know, just a 280 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: little bit extra time with him, and I could really 281 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: enjoy that you know, extra day at home with him, 282 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: and that seemed to really make a difference in how 283 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: I felt about how much time I was getting with him. Yeah, well, 284 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about you know, yeah, 285 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: that specific conversation and what you were weighing in that 286 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: at that time. We're just going to take a quick 287 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: ad break and we'll be right back with more with 288 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: Lisa and her sort of early ambivalence on unworking motherhood 289 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: and how that all played out. So I'm back with 290 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: Lisa Segner. We're talking about her you know, early working 291 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: motherhood journey and the sort of ambivalence she had with 292 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: going back to work and sort of coming through that. 293 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: I want to play back to our listeners a little 294 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: bit about those conversations you were having with your husband. 295 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: You mentioned he was like whoa were you being like, 296 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: I can't do this? How are these conversations coming to 297 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: be Yeah, basically it was just you know, end of 298 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: the day, we always had time. You know, we sit 299 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: on the couch and we'd watch a show together and 300 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: talk about our days and and I you know, I 301 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: was actually a little bit like afraid to tell him 302 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: that I wasn't happy at work. We have a very open, 303 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: healthy relationship. But you know, we both work in the 304 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: same industry, and we both you know, we both got 305 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: our CFA, which is a very difficult program to get through. 306 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: We both have our MBAs. Like we both invested a 307 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: lot of time and money and hours into our careers 308 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: to get to where we are. And you know, we've 309 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: made decisions. I mean, we we're a very frugal company, 310 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: but are sorry frugal couple, but we rely on a 311 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: certain level of income in terms of you know, forecasting 312 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: how to pay for things, and you know, especially after 313 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: having children, thinking about paying for their college education and 314 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: things like that, and having a dual income family is 315 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, as part of being able to do the 316 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: things that we wanted to do with our lives. And 317 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: I was just a person that genuinely enjoyed working. I 318 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: didn't you know, dislike working. So I think he was 319 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: a little surprised because work was always such a huge 320 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: part of my identity and it was a very driven person. 321 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: So you know, I started to say, like, ah, I 322 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: don't know if I can do this, Like this is grueling, 323 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. I miss Paul. Our son's name is Paul, 324 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: and you know, he is a very my husband's a 325 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: very logical person, and you know, he's very good at 326 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: having perspective, and he was you know, he understood and 327 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: was compassionate towards me for how I felt, but also said, 328 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: I think when you get further down the line, you 329 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: would regret being home full time, just knowing your personality 330 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: and how much you like work and how hard you've 331 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: worked to get to where you are with your career. 332 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: So he was like, just keep plotting along and see 333 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: if this gets better, because it's been you know, we 334 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: were having these conversations when I was probably back about 335 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: three months. So he's like, that's a very short period 336 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: of time in comparison to how long you've been working. 337 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's a majority of your time as a parent, 338 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: or you know, a big, big chunk of time since 339 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: you've become a parent, or a good percentage of that. 340 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: But just give yourself some more time to adjust to 341 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: this new role of being a working mom. And so 342 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: you mentioned you had, you know, taken some PTO. You 343 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: decided to strategically deploy that to get some more time 344 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: with your son. Anything else that you did to sort 345 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: of make those few months easier on you, that was 346 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: the main thing. I mean, we made changes in the 347 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: way we split our division of labor. You know, prior 348 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: to having a child, I did all the grocery shopping 349 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: and then the meal planning and then the meal prep 350 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: because I'm the cook of the two of us. And 351 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: then at the end of my maternity le we started 352 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: using you know, grocery delivery and he hated it as 353 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: I hated it. So I said, okay, well we can 354 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: either use this or you can do the grocery shopping. 355 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: And so he opted to take on the grocery shopping. 356 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: And that was because I used to enjoy going to 357 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: the grocery store on Saturday morning and getting out of 358 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: the house and doing that. But then when that meant 359 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 1: giving up time with our son, I didn't enjoy being 360 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: away and doing those those jobs anymore. And so we 361 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, really looked at how we were splitting our time. 362 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: He now you know, like I said, he does all 363 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: the grocery shopping. He also contributes to the meal planning. 364 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: It's not just me coming up with what we're going 365 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: to eat. It's a discussion together and that mental load 366 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: of trying to think of what we're going to eat. 367 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Distributing that between the two of us makes a big difference. 368 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: So you know, there's changes we made in that division 369 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: of labor too, to make sure that I was getting 370 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: as much time with our son as I could and 371 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: making sure that, you know, the distribution of things you 372 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: need to do within a marriage was more evenly split. 373 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: But the main thing was the time off and you know, 374 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: just having that extra day every other week that we 375 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't have any plans. We weren't going anywhere. It was 376 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: just you know, going to the park and spending time together, 377 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: going on walks. You know, a lot of that was 378 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: in the winter months, so it's not a great time 379 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: of the year in Minnesota, but it just gave me 380 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: time to connect with him more one on one. And 381 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: you said that things did start getting better that you know, 382 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: when he was let's say like ten months or so. Yeah, 383 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: that I mean, although it sounds like he may have 384 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: also had some medical issues that were then solved at 385 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: that point, which really helped matters too in terms of 386 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: the sleeping. Yes, but but that things you became more 387 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: comfortable with this role and with you know, maximizing the 388 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: time that you did have with him, but then also 389 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: having this other aspect going on in your life. Yeah, 390 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: I think, you know, his social skills started. You know, 391 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: it's when he starts to become more social and actually 392 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: appreciating being around other kids. And I could see the 393 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: benefits of him being with other kids and watching what 394 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: they're doing, and you know before that they're just not 395 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: as aware of their surroundings. I mean, he would smile 396 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: at other babies, but he started to have these little 397 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: friends in his room. And yes, the you know, having 398 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: gotten tubes, he started to sleep much better. He still 399 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: didn't sleep the night until around a year, but our 400 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: sleep was much much better once he had that surgery 401 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: in late November and then but yeah, it was just 402 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: right around ten months when I also could see that 403 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: I was not really made to be a stay at 404 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: home mom. And like God, bless women who have that calling, 405 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: because it is it takes a special person to do 406 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: that job. And I don't think that I, you know, 407 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: would have taught my son nearly as much as he's 408 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: learned from his teachers at the Spanish Emergent school. As 409 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: he learned, I wouldn't have thought he was capable of 410 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: learning what he's learned. And so I think just recognizing 411 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: the benefit he was getting from being around other kids, 412 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: and then just me, you know, probably settling back into 413 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: my role. You know that I came back in late July, 414 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: so come January is when I started to really feel 415 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: a difference and remark to my husband, like, gosh, I'm 416 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: really glad that I didn't make a decision because now 417 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: I can see that I would get kind of bored 418 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: if I was home with him. I think I just 419 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't feel as challenged, and I would miss the interactions 420 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: I have with coworkers and you know, the feeling of 421 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: accomplishment that I get at work. That was when I 422 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: really started to feel a shift in that decision, and 423 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: then I started to talk more about how I felt, 424 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, in the fall with other women at work. 425 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of a scary thing to share, you don't, 426 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to be put on the 427 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: radar as someone who's not grateful for their job, or 428 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: especially working in an industry where again, we're just always contracting. 429 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: It seems like there's always layoffs and consolidations and things 430 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: of that nature. So you don't necessarily want to speak 431 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: up and say, I'm not very happy right now, and 432 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: I'm questioning if I'm meant to, you know, be a 433 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: working mother. But as I felt more comfortable sharing, especially 434 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: once I was on the other side of that feeling 435 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: of needing to make a change in my career, I 436 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: shared my story more and from other women I heard, yeah, 437 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: I went through the same thing. I had that same struggle. 438 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: I'm glad I pushed through it because I would not 439 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: be happy as a stay at home mom. But no 440 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: one really talks about it. There's sort of this taboo 441 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: sense of around the sharing that you're questioning if you're 442 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: meant to be a working mom. Well, it's interesting because 443 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's a couple of things 444 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: going on. I mean, one is that the length of 445 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: maternity leaves in for many people, taking even had a 446 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: quite long one I'm compared to many people. But because 447 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: of the need to go back to the office, that 448 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people have. This is obviously sort of 449 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: different in the COVID era, and we'll talk about that too, 450 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: But it forces people into hard decisions at a time 451 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: when if that decision could be postponed, like another four 452 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: or five months, would probably be a lot easier to make. 453 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: The second thing is just that well, just you know, 454 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it's too bad also though that work in 455 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: many cases, there's less flexibility about that. You know. It's 456 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: like you can't try out both roles and then see 457 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,239 Speaker 1: what you like. You know. It's it's kind of in 458 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: many cases do have to make a decision on some careers. 459 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: And I wish that weren't the case too. I mean 460 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: that people could come in and out and decide how 461 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: they how they're doing it, they'd be right. I mean, 462 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: it's hard to do that. And my industry is not open, 463 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: and it's not really possible to work part time, you know, 464 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: So had you know, said, if only I could work 465 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, like three days a week for a period 466 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: of time until I felt ready to get back in 467 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: and yes, at this time, this was pre COVID, where 468 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: nobody was allowed to work from home. There was no 469 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: flexibility whatsoever. It was you know, if you took you 470 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: could take some time off, or you could work from 471 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: home on a day when you get a doctor acquintment, 472 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: but that was it. You couldn't have a recurrent work 473 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: from home schedule. So it was just a very different 474 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: work environment back then too. But yeah, it is too 475 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: bad that you can't kind of test the water, because 476 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: that was the other thing that my husband was worried about, is, well, 477 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: what if you're you know, what if you're miserable after 478 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: two or three months and then you can't undo that decision, 479 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: You're never going to get a job. I mean, it 480 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: sounds negative to say that, but it would be very 481 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: hard to find a similar job to what I have 482 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: now at the same compensation level. And you know, I 483 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: have great coworkers and a great boss, and that's you know, 484 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: those are irref replaceable really, So it is too bad 485 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: that you can't kind of test the waters. I have 486 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 1: some friends that their maternity leave is like a phased 487 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: return and where they come back for like one day 488 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: a week for a week or something like that, and 489 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: then it's two days a week, and then it's three 490 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: days a week, you know, and it gradually increases back 491 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: up to a full time schedule and that just is 492 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: not going to happen in the finance industry. But so 493 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you go from being completely home 494 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: to being, you know, completely back at work, and it's 495 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: kind of a I think also that shift that you know, 496 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: very drastic shift in time spent with your child really 497 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: makes it hard as well. Yeah, but it sounds like, 498 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: I mean, doing these strategic paid time off, I mean 499 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: that people do you know, there are ways to kind 500 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: of get some of that time that you may be 501 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: be craving. So I think that was a really smart 502 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: thing that you did then. But then things were sort 503 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: of different with your second child. So then you had 504 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 1: another baby, you know what two and a half three 505 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: years later, right, and this was during the pandemic. You're 506 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: working from home, right, Like, I mean, how is that 507 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: a different experience? Then? Yeah, it was completely different. I 508 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: did not struggle with my return to work. I was 509 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: actually really ready to go back to work at twenty 510 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: weeks and our son was born in December of twenty twenty, 511 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: so I was returning to work at the end of April, 512 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: but I was still working from home full time. I 513 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: didn't return to the office until March of this year, 514 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: so I had, you know, his first fifteen months, I 515 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: worked from home, and it's just such a more gentle 516 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: return to work. You're not rushing out the door. I 517 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: mean it was my husband that was mostly rushing out 518 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: the door. He was back at work, you know, three 519 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: to four days a week, so he was doing the 520 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: daycare drop off and pick up and I was, you know, 521 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: so we weren't having And also there's just been a 522 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: little bit of a relaxing in the schedule since COVID, 523 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, especially since not everyone's back in the office, 524 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: and so we didn't have this pressure, or my husband 525 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: didn't have this pressure to be at his desk at 526 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: a certain time like he might have or I might 527 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: have pre COVID. So I think there's just been more 528 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: of an understanding for the balance of work and family 529 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: life since since COVID, and we my company is recognized 530 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: that we had a tremendous year in twenty twenty and 531 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one despite you know, the workforce being at home. 532 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was just a lot more gently return 533 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: and that I did pump. Luckily, my second son did nurse, 534 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: so I didn't have to exclusively pump for him, but 535 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: I pumped at my desk. I didn't have to deal 536 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: with like hauling things back and forth, and you know, 537 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: I just worked through my pumping sessions. I was able 538 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: to do that. So it's just overall, everything just felt 539 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: a little easier. And then I also, you know, it's 540 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: different having one child versus two children, obviously for many reasons, 541 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: but there's not really a true break when you have 542 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: two children. You know, their naps never seemed to line up. 543 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: So you know, after our son was born and I 544 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: returned to work, the weekends were different because it wasn't 545 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: like we had anytime the baby is napping was our 546 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: time to use as we would like, because we had 547 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: the three year old who then eventually dropped his nap 548 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: in the summer and fall period. So you're never really 549 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: like fully off when there's two. So I think that's 550 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: another part of it that made it easier going back 551 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: with the after the second, because I find being at 552 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 1: work is easier in many ways than being home with 553 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: two children. And that's not to say that I don't 554 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,959 Speaker 1: enjoy my time with my children. I do, but they're 555 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: very young and so it's very hands on. It's very 556 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: physically taxing, So I appreciate being able to sit at 557 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: my desk and work on an Excel spreadsheet or have 558 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: conference calls with clients or with coworkers. I think I 559 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: have a new level of appreciation for how easier that 560 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: how much easier that is for me. I can eat 561 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: my lunch and no one's asking me for anything or 562 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: throwing food on the floor, or you know, unless you 563 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: have a particularly angry client, I guess yes, unless you 564 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: know who knows. But it's overall, it's just somewhere, you know, 565 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: I have complete control over my day, and that is 566 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: just not the case when I'm home on the weekends 567 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: with two children. And I think I'm very fortunate in 568 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: that I like my job and I really like my coworkers, 569 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: and that is you know, I haven't always liked my 570 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: job or my coworkers in my various roles that I've 571 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: had in the past, so I think that also makes 572 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: a huge difference. I think if you didn't like what 573 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 1: you were doing for a living, and then you know 574 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: you're spending forty fifty plus hours a week doing that, 575 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: then you know that it might not be as enjoyable 576 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: to be away from your children. But liking what I 577 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: do and enjoying the time to focus on something I'm 578 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: interested in without being constantly interrupted or what have you 579 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: with you know, a one and four year old. Yeah, no, 580 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: it's very true that people who like their jobs can 581 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: still go through an ambivalence, and it's helpful for people 582 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: to hear that and to hear that they might not feel, 583 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, gung ho about work during the first few 584 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: months back. But if you did like your job, and 585 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, you still like your colleagues and your cowork 586 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, your boss and all that, probably you will 587 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: get back to that at some point. As you said 588 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: when we were talking earlier, you could always push forward 589 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: the decision a little bit and say, well, if I 590 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: still hate this when my kid is one one and 591 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: a half, you know, I can decide to leave then. 592 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: Or if I have a second child and I'm still 593 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: feeling the same way, I could make the decision to 594 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, opt out or scale back significantly. Then you 595 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: can still make that decision in the future, right, Yeah, 596 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: that was kind of the decision. You know, back of 597 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: the mind thought I had is that you know, see 598 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: how I feel it a year or you know, when 599 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: we have our second child, make a decision about the 600 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: different decision about the return to work. But luckily I 601 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: work through those feelings much faster than I thought I would. Yeah, 602 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: well that's great, well, Lisa. As you know, as a listener, 603 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: we always end with a love of the week, so 604 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: I can go first to you know, give you a 605 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: minute to think about it, though I guessing you probably 606 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: already know your since again you're a listener. Mine for 607 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: this week is somewhat of a random one. We moved 608 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: three four months ago, about four months ago now, and 609 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: you fill out a change of address form on the 610 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: post office website and it's been you know, it's just 611 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: amazing to me how that works. I mean, there's some 612 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: places I've had to write and say, by the way, 613 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: my address is different now, But a lot of stuff 614 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: just seems. You know that they have alerts with the 615 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: post office, and so when the post office sends back 616 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: a note from you know, they put a forwarding address 617 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: on it, it gets changed in the database somewhere deep 618 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: in Excel, I guess, and it's really quite exciting. I 619 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: love when things just work. So that's mine for this week. Yes, 620 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: I remember that from our last move. That's nice that 621 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: that all just magically falls into place. So my level 622 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: of the week, it's I would say, it's taking our 623 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: kids to the library again. During the pandemic, we played it, 624 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, really safe because I'm a high risk person 625 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: for COVID, so we really did very little in the 626 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: way of you know, taking our children out to places 627 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: and things of that nature. But now that COVID levels 628 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: have you know, come down, and we're fully vaccinated and 629 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm boosted and et cetera. I've started taking our boys 630 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: to the library on Saturday mornings because we've had a 631 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: horrible spring here in Minnesota. It's been so cold and windy, 632 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: and you know, we've had snow and all manner of 633 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: weather in the month of April, and so every Saturday 634 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: we go down there. We can walk to the library 635 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: if it's nice enough. Otherwise we drive, and we have 636 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: different toys out for the kids again, and the four 637 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: year old loves to pick out books. So it's just 638 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: nice to have them out and about again. After a 639 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: very long period of just kind of being cooped up 640 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: in our house when it wasn't nice enough to go 641 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: to the park or go for walks. It is so 642 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: good to be able to go to places again, and 643 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, yes, the children are picking up dermy toys 644 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: and books, but you know we're there are vaccines. Now 645 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: we're feeling better about it. It's yes, yeah, I mean 646 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: they're already exposed to everything. That's true. And day care 647 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: so your children, no doubt how robust immune systems. That 648 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: was My oldest child went to daycare when he was little, 649 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: and I got to say, he's the one who gets 650 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: sick the least. So there you go. Yeah, we've paid 651 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: our dues. You paid your dues exactly. Well, Lisa, thank 652 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. I know you are 653 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: not on social media, but is there anywhere that listeners 654 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: could connect with you if that was okay? Yes, yes, 655 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: So I have a blog. It's Lisa's Yarns. So it's 656 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Lisa's Yarns dot blogspot dot com. I've been blogging there 657 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, so I'm I don't go 658 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: as far back as you know Sarah does, but I'm 659 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: very the old school blogger though. No you know, product 660 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: pitches or anything. It's just kind of what's going on 661 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: in our lives on a day to day basis. You know, 662 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: the experience of being a working mom, et cetera. But 663 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: that's where you can find me. Wonderful, We'll have people 664 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: look for you there. Thanks so much for joining us. Yes, thanks, 665 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: Laura was great talking with you. All right. So that 666 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: was a great interview with Lisa. She had so much 667 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: wonderful idea to share. We also love reading her blog, 668 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: so please go check that out with Lisa's yarns. So 669 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: this question comes from a listener who has thinking about 670 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: childcare here. For the last four years, her sister in 671 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: law has been her nanny and it's been wonderful, but 672 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: it's time for her to go back to school and 673 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: build a different career. She has friends in her neighborhood 674 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: with whom they have been in conversations about doing a 675 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: nanny share with her existing nanny. She says, I know 676 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: this could potentially get dicey, especially if expectations aren't clear. 677 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: We'd like this to be a good experience. We'd like 678 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: to preserve our friendship. We have very similar perspectives on 679 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: things like food safety expectations and lifestyle factors. But are 680 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: wondering what you can think of that we haven't considered. 681 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: We know that we need to consider where the kids stay, 682 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: which they're saying the neighbor's house food, do we bring 683 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: their own or use theirs and pay them? Vacations each 684 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: family and the nanny, sick days, backup plans, pick up 685 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: and drop off times, how to handle medical appointments. Can 686 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: you think of other things we are missing? And do 687 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: you have recommendations for real sources to look at? So, Sarah, 688 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: let's your thought. Yeah, I think she's thought about a 689 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: lot of details, which is great. My first thought was 690 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: just to make sure everything is in writing and not 691 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: just a conversation, because I can imagine a scenario where 692 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: everybody has a meeting and agrees to everything, but then 693 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: when there is stress and someone's sick, everyone remembers a 694 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: slightly different version of a policy. So I think it's 695 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: very important for everyone to agree on one that is 696 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: signed by everyone, Even as that sounds formal, I just 697 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: think it's probably a good idea when you're basically mixing 698 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: two families and a nanny in one kind of business agreement. 699 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: I think specifics need to be identified, in particular around sickness, 700 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: like you all have to decide can a running nose 701 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: kid show up? I mean, I don't know what the 702 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: right answer is to that they're probably all going to 703 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: get the running nose and maybe everyone's totally fine with 704 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: that and that's great, or maybe everyone's not. But it's 705 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: just got to be fair and clear so that there 706 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: is not a lot of ambiguity. Now we're even go 707 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: into like have about CONJUNCTI by how about this that 708 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: Obviously you're not going to come up with every single solution, 709 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: but you can come up with guidelines similar to what 710 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: daycare might have, like you know, fever over X have 711 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,479 Speaker 1: to wait twenty four hours, things like that. Screen time, 712 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: So families have very different ideas on that. Some might 713 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: think it's totally cool to have the three year olds, 714 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, watch a Disney movie for some downtime, and 715 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: another family might be horrified by that. And so since 716 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: they're together, I think that probably is something that should 717 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: be discussed or included. And then yeah, just being really 718 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: clear about vacations and time off and like who's allowed 719 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: to make changes and by what time, because I can 720 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: imagine there might be a lot of things that can 721 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: get sticky in that realm as well. Yeah, I mean, 722 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: I would suggest having a conversation with another set of 723 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: families who have done a successful nanny share because they 724 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 1: can come up with these things that you just aren't 725 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: going to think of off the top of your head 726 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: when you have two people who are somebody's employer. And 727 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: that is where we get to the back that you 728 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: are both her employer. So I looked into this when 729 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: we had a question from somebody else come up about 730 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: a nanny share a couple of years ago. So my 731 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: payroll company, which is GTM, has some literature about how 732 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: to do a legal nanny share on the books, which 733 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: is that both of you wind up being her employer. 734 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: You are both hiring her for X number of hours, 735 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: You are both paying her a certain number of you know, 736 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: for hours at a certain rate, and generally what the 737 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: idea is is that each of you pays about two 738 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: thirds of what a nanny would earn for per hour basis, 739 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: and so then she's getting you know, four thirds of 740 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: a salary as a sort of you know, bonus for 741 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: her of taking this job on of managing two employers, 742 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: and you are all getting a little bit of a 743 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: break on what the child care costs would be for 744 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, the the hassle, as it were, of sharing 745 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: your childcare with with someone else. So you know, that's 746 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: that's how you do it. The only thing this would 747 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: ever be an issue with you know, obviously both of 748 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: you have to pay more than minimum wage because you're 749 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: both legal employers. Now, I think for most people listening 750 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: to this, you're paying your nanny a professional rate and 751 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: so that it would never come into you know, consideration. 752 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: But just as you think, as some municipalities are going 753 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: into like fifteen dollars per hour minimum wages, both of 754 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: you are going to have to pay at least that, right, 755 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: So that's something to consider that. You know, the rate 756 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: may wind up being a little bit higher because of that, 757 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: but you are going to to pay legally, both of 758 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: you have to pay over whatever your local minimum wage is, 759 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: and both of you are withholding taxes and you know, 760 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: so forth. So I really encourage you to check out 761 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: that at GTM. Just google GTM and nanny share and 762 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: that will give you a lot of guidance there. Awesome, 763 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: very practical. Yes, well this has been best of both worlds. 764 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: I was interviewing list the segment about working mom ambivalence 765 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: and how we sometimes need to push through that and 766 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: can reach working mom happiness after the initial ambivalence which 767 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: is certainly where she is now. Anyway, we will be 768 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: back next week with more on making work and life 769 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah 770 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox 771 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura 772 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,439 Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both 773 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on 774 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: making work and life work together.