WEBVTT - Conversations About Gang Violence feat. Alex Alonzo 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.360 Watch up and welcome back to another episode and No 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.480 Sillers Podcast with your host now funk that with your 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:19.120 low classes, Malone. Something was bothering me specifically, specifically right, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.600 And I was talking to one of my homies, right, 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.520 and we were talking about the Kindrick album, and in 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.760 the Kindrick album, somehow we got into a debate about 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:39.279 gang banging and they literally accused me of being like 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.159 some kind of gang activists, of like promoting gangs in 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:49.760 a positive light. And I noticed it was another conversation 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.720 that was Charlotte Magne and Van Lathan and they feel like, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.920 I have this weird outlook on gangs because their outlook 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:05.320 is rooted in like negativity, and um, their their outlook 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.920 is rooted in negativity based off ignorance, like they don't 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:15.360 have any experience, any understanding, feel me. So I noticed 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.920 that there's this this expression that goes along with any 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:26.480 time communities class, right, anytime these poor communities class. There's 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.039 this expression that I've always seen us and normally it's 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.040 white people, Pete who uses it like newspeople, and they'll 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.480 be like, oh, senseless violence, and that's their line, like, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.360 oh senseless violence. And I could know the situation right, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.200 being in the streets, Like you know, I got the 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.000 street I'm subscribed to the street newspaper, so all of 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.200 the street news is gonna come right to my phone. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.559 I'm gonna be able to decipher all information. I'm gonna 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.240 know what happened to a T. So it's weird to me, right, 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.520 And I understand why a news anchor will call it 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.800 sense lists they they say anything about that with violence 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:09.880 particularly that's like gun related. I don't always right now, 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.800 they cover the Russian Ukraine War and I've never heard 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:18.160 them reference it as senseless violence, right, So that's also military. 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.200 There's never any senseless military action ever ever, which is 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.320 my point. But so I give the news people a 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:31.320 past because they are not informed on the actual conflict. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.959 So then they just referenced it as senseless. Right, when 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.400 they have no information on the conflict, the natural thing 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:44.760 to do is referenced as senseless. M hm. I am informed. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.680 I brought my buddy Alex Alonso on here, somebody who's 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:56.520 I've always consulted on gain anything community culture related, and 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.880 just as much as I'm vested in it, he studies it. Yes, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.160 or So it's weird to me to always hear that, right, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.120 But I understand those news anchors have no idea what's 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.560 going on. They are avoided and they have no idea 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.880 of the facts. My issue is when people within the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:22.320 community when we birth success, well we birth successful people 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.760 and then they become successful, and then they go and 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.440 get with the same news people or ignorant people and 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.680 promote the violence as senseless versus making sense out of 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.240 it for people to get information, you know what I'm saying, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:43.760 So maybe they can help with the conflict. Yeah, In general, 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.800 I think that the truth is halfway between your perspective 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:55.360 and like Charlemagne advanced perspective where they're not hands on, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.600 first person involved, but you're so personally involved that you 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.800 can't it the forest for the tree is, so to speak. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.760 I don't. I don't know, because how is it senseless? 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:12.600 Like okay, because because there's not productive big picture, but again, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:19.120 productive big pictures all like perspective base right, that's all 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.080 based and and that's what I was getting at. But 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.400 I don't know if that makes it wrong to say 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.320 somebody's world doesn't matter because your world is of what 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.279 you feel is a grander scale. It's kind of like 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.840 that's just pretty much discriminating on the value of somebody's life, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.200 like you reduce at that point, these people lives don't matter, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.839 right at that point, then if if it's just if 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.080 you can make sense out of World War two and 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.200 you can't make sense out of the sixty versus the 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:51.000 eight Trades, if you can make sense out of you know, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.760 nine eleven and the war between al Quainta, but you 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.839 can't make sense out of the sixties and the trades. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.960 I think at some place you're just being you're being ridiculous. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.320 It's an ignorant like, Okay, it's different if you don't 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.560 have any information, right and you just see some nig 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:08.839 is killing each other, right, you just see some black people, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.760 poor black people killing each other. That's all it looks 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.120 like to you. Oh, they're just killing each other. But 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.279 if you have details on the fact of someone loved 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.320 one getting killed, you know, a thousand different things, then 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.440 it starts to make sense. Hey, if we think of 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:27.840 this as as ah on a geographic scale. I studied 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.120 geography for a long time. And what Peter is talking about, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:36.120 which which he used the term big production or production 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.880 big picture, that's macro level conflict. But what glasses is 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:45.800 talking about crips and bloods, essays North Daniel Sudaniels. In geography, 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.120 we call that micro level conflict, and you can take 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.800 the same rules and apply that to macro level as 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.080 you can to the micro level, to where there's almost 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.160 no difference between what's causing the conflict on these two 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.880 different levels, because there is big picture or production big 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.239 production on the micro level. Their families, there are kids, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.839 there are parents. Uh, there are street rules. The street 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:19.640 rules run large urban cities, and the street rules that 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.520 get violated end up in micro level conflict. So I 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.560 look at it as all the same, and the rules 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.160 exists to keep peace. Like the rules are not just 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.000 there to cause conflict. There no different than laws. It's 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:41.080 there to keep peace. Yea, I didn't mean it in 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.120 a scale of physical space. I mean it in a 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.719 scale of like chronological time. More so, I thought you 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.480 was meaning it in the scale of financial value, like 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.240 that there is more money in the war in Afghanistan 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.280 there is in the war between the sixties and a trades, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.400 but the values of the lives are the same. Yeah. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.560 I mentioned in the sense that like there's not a 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:11.320 big picture end game of time for like a defined 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.360 outcome with consideration of the local ancillary costs that are 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.560 caused by the conflict, like within the neighborhood over a 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:24.720 twenty to thirty year scale. I'm not going to disagree 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.960 with that, but but I also think that makes the 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.880 intentions pure. Whose intentions the intentions of the war itself? 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.239 The fight is well, yeah, for sure, it's not done 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.400 for because what you said in so many words is 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.480 it wasn't done because you know, they took somebody life. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.240 It was done with a with an underlying issue. Even 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.840 if to us they promoted the lives loss of nine 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.120 eleven was the reason they decided to start this war 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.920 on al Qaida, we both know there's an underlying, you know, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.680 cunning thing below it that that's the real reason. But 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.680 I don't know if that's worth more or just you 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:07.000 just a bigger piece of ship. Yeah, Like they're like, 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.960 there's more immediate integrity to an organic, you know, war 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:17.280 between two neighborhoods. But but there's also more. If you 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.400 look at in a square mile, there's what fifty people 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.000 in population in a square mile in South l a ballpark, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:32.000 but what four percent maybe gang bang maybe one percent? 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.760 So there's an ancillary negative cost to the other x 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.599 percent of people that aren't involved in the conflict who 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.480 have to endure, you know, some sort of an l 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.960 as a result of its existence. Civilion. But isn't that 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.640 like all wars at that, like like, and this is 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.720 the tricky part, right because growing up in the community. Right, So, yeah, 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.520 there's only so many participating people in the military side. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.440 But let me tell you something that's not really spoken 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.720 of for some read First off, hold up, I'm tripping 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.800 no seillers, g l my Man, Peter boss I got 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:15.000 the big home me Alex Alonzo, Criminologists, you know, street culturists, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.480 you know, uh, understanding and study or of the fine 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.640 arts when it comes to Los Angeles streets and everything surrounding. 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.800 So the same thing happens in these big wars. I 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.800 mean when you right now, it's a ton of innocent 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:36.360 lives being lost in the war between Russia and Ukraine. Tons, 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.520 probably way more, right, But this is the tricky thing 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.960 about you know, the community, right, So yes, right, let's 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.079 say on the seven since they built the one oh five, right, 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.560 is it's only so many maybe it's a hundred participants 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.120 in the military that's a hundred and seven streets it's 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.360 only a hundred willing participants in the military, right, that's 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.240 a hundred of seventeen street wats. But that don't mean 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.360 the majority of the community are not the actual culture 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.760 that is a hundred and sevent t street watch. They're 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.200 just not active in the military. Most people that grow 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.920 up in these communities, because they grow up with each other, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.440 are very much like community base. They just don't do 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.480 the same things when it comes to crime, but they 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.760 very much are family and and committed to the members 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.600 of the community, if that makes sense. Like everybody in 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.240 America is not, you know, in the military, but everybody 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:38.960 supports the military. Does that make sense? Not everybody? Yeah? 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.359 Now imagine I work with a lot of defense attorneys, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.560 and when we go on trial for murder, I have 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:51.360 to convince this jury that the reasons that this conflict 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.640 exists in the first place is basically for the same 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.560 issues we're talking about here, that there is a greater 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.320 reason why this is going on. There's an historical context 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.320 of why this is going on and on, and sometimes 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.240 there's actually a reason for a person A killing person 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.400 B that could be rooted in um I felt my 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.960 life was threatened, for example, or if I didn't do it, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.600 they were gonna do it. Um. For most of the time, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.240 jurors do not care about street violence. But once I 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:21.280 put it in the context of macro level violence, and 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.599 it's not too much different from the reason why the 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.920 United States was in Afghanistan for twenty years, some jurors 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.280 start to get it. Some jurors will say, Okay, they'll 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:32.400 open up their mind and say, maybe I should look 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.280 at this case, Maybe I should look at this conflict 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.800 through different lenses. And it is a challenge. Man. We've 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.880 got a jury that's you know, ten ten white folks, 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.560 usually nine in ten white folks after the most part 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.160 do not care about this stuff. And which is weird 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.840 because that's the terminology when they say a jury of 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.920 your peers, like based off where you live, the term 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.040 peers changes, like every experience in Los Angeles is not 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:02.600 the exact same, especially at economically, like that literally becomes 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.800 tears of living, Like the whole thing changes depending on 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.880 how much money you make where you live. That changes 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.800 everything about the community, not even your race, right Pete 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.400 is where you live. You can live in Beverly Hills 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.600 and that experience is totally different being a black man 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.439 in Beverly Hills and being a black man and watch 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:26.079 night and day, night and day. So uh, and that's dope, 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.319 that's a really important job. I'm glad I didn't. I 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.120 didn't even know that's what you do, but I always 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.720 assume that's something close to what you do. But I 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.079 was saying that if if you literally can look at 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.920 what's peers, what the word piers means, like, they would 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.480 change jurors and they would fight for different kind of 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.400 jurors based off of the community. It's a lot of 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.520 things to work out, but it's really it really matters. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.280 Like if we go back to the origin right of 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.440 one of the oldest you know, crep beefs, right, which 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.439 is the sixties, and they trades, right, this is something 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:02.160 in the seventies, late seventies, but love it, brother, Right, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:08.320 a minor was murdered right over a simple phistical, you 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:13.240 know squabble. That's normal, normal business. There's normal amongst our communities, 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.920 poor communities to fight to solve problems. You know, it's 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.120 actually not crazy. It actually happens at the highest levels 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.880 a lot of times. Right, But they decided to solve 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.520 it with a physical altercation that we're gonna fight, and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.319 somebody went too far that wasn't familiar with the communities, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:32.360 those two communities relationships. One person made a decision that 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.200 went too far. So then because they couldn't find resolution. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.600 There was one resolution asked for, and because they couldn't 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.440 find it, it resulted in what we have today, which 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.360 is you know award that's forty years old at this point, right, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:52.280 but it is very sensible. If you don't understand how 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.319 somebody getting killed, right, how somebody getting killed and you 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.280 feeling like another community is responsible and not doing things 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.800 to provide a resolution, it could cause more lives. I've 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.160 heard this a thousand times. When I explained it to then, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.920 you know, he tries his best to understand, but he's like, well, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.719 why they just didn't sit down and talk? And I 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.600 would say to him, well, why when the Twin Towers 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.000 got bombed, did in America go and sit down with 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.360 al Qaeda's leadership and say, hey, we need to work 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.160 this out so nobody else loses their life. Why is 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.520 Russian not sitting there with Ukraine deciding to say whatever 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.040 we're doing is for it's not worth people losing their lives, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.800 like what makes like what is a life worth? At 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:38.920 that point? I think that brings up to like two 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.600 small kind of contextual you know, schisms here a little 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.960 bit like one of them, a like history would tell 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.840 us at least it's view through the through the lens 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.960 of there are you know, quote unquote good wars and 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.560 bad wars or better wars than others you know, to 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.960 be involved in. And there's a runce between rational and sensible, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.760 you know. And also I think a question or two 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:12.840 that are worth asking for this conversation as far as 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.920 like trying to bridge the gap between the two points, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.480 is what is the defined end game and what is 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.400 the positive outcome for the non participants nearby? You know, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.560 Like if you were talking about we're gonna engage in 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.800 a war two topple the Third Reich, we know what 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.640 the end game is and we know who the beneficiaries 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.960 are that aren't actually involved in the conflict but are nearby, 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.800 Like what are like like those questions I feel like 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.640 are not beautifully answered with regard to say six eight 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.400 trays forty year long, But you is that really what 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.000 happened in World War two? Like you know, in real time. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.200 That's not actually what happened. We didn't enter the war 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.680 to topple the third right, I think I think once 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.880 awhere the war, we entered the war to aid in 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:10.240 that cause. That was effectively started the war because somebody 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.960 brought the war to us. Like but before that, just 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.280 like now, we were playing behind curtains and doing small, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.400 little kind of cheap fucked up things, right, supporting people, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:29.160 picking aside, but not actually participate. And it wasn't until right, uh, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.840 the war was brought to our soil that we decided 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.160 to go full force. Because if that was a case, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.480 if it was all about topping the third right, the 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.880 nuclear bonds went to the wrong place. Well you the 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.920 Afghanistan and Iraq war as a better example. The the 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.400 goal was to take down Osama bin Lading. Oh they 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.600 took didn't Barack Obama killed or someone been lobbing in 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.840 two thousand and eleven, So then while we were in 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.160 the war for nine more years. So I think that 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.600 when they articulate these end goals, it is a way 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.640 to get the American public to say, Okay, we're with that, 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.320 but then we forget about the end goal has been 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.639 already been achieved. So why are you guys still fighting? 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.280 Why is there still bloodshed? Why is there still conflict 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.600 for another decade? Almost so, I don't you know those 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.119 end goals that are presented at these press conferences by 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.800 the media. I just think it's all smoking to get 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.520 the American public to support it. It's great marketing for 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.360 whatever reason. And and that's what and that's why initially 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:32.120 said to you, p it is it's all about everybody's 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.280 fighting for the same things. How you spend it to 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.679 the general public is important. And what I like to 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.040 believe with no seilings and what we do is we 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.560 way behind the curtains. We're not even staring at the 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.680 magic trick. No more so if we say, even in 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.359 World War two, right, the goal was to to to 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:55.240 counter the third right like well, the the actual nuclear 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.000 bonds went to the wrong place. But again that's a 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.960 time frame standpoint, you know, like the U S would 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.479 have would have eventually gotten into Europe full throttle. It was, 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.000 it was happening that way, and then Pearl Harbor happened 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:12.160 in the process, like the Atlantic and Pacific theaters historically 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.879 two very separate wars. But Peter, I got a question 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.680 remember when the goal under Bush when they went into 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.600 Iraq and Afghanistan was to find w m d s. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.680 When you have a goal of finding something that's never 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.440 going to happen, then there is no end goal. Because 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.600 here we are twenty years later, and I believe the 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.960 consensus is Iraq never had w m d s. That's nonsense. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.600 They were in Syria, they were used, and we know 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.280 they were used. They were never found in Iraq. They 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.920 never Yeah, but there's there's there's evidence and intelligence that 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.720 suggests they were trucked into Syria from Iraq and giant 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.440 in large military convoys. Is the tricky word. And again 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.640 pet private journalists, not government. It's always governed me. They 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.560 blamed the don who saying I'm participating in the w 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.760 m D program, which they never they never proved. Saddam 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.320 Hussein Interact was supposed to be involved in the w 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:11.240 m D program. I understand that I'm I wasn't like 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:15.560 I'm pro Iraq intervention war, but but the idea that 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.440 in a real time he wasn't stone walling and searches 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.119 while transporting that stuff to Syria that was then actually 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.919 used in Syria that we know about that they didn't 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.960 have a create on their own or trade for that's 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:35.240 all real, like that literally happened, like you can like 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.200 Syrian make that stuff and they weren't shipped it. That's 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.800 how they got it. More than then then my question 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.199 is we know countries that actually have in Iran has 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.000 been involved in w m D programs. How many bombs 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.280 have we dropped the wounds the last time we invaded Iran? 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.760 That ain't gonna happen, you know, So all of these 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.480 like justifications to war, man, it's all it's you gott 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.720 admit it's a lot of propaganda behind these explanations and 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:05.560 justifications to a lot of this macro level conflicts. There's 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.960 there's certainly in the US government like speaking, there's two 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.080 tiers of wars. I mean, like and it's even easy 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.320 if you could point to in most cases, like there's 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.080 that line the sand where there was Congress declaring war 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.879 and then there was these quote unquote military conflicts that 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:28.720 go on for a hundred years because it's convenient, you know, 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.879 and those are not the same thing all like like 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.919 that would be Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam. Even though Ukraine thing 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.879 there was an opportunity for Ukraine and Russia to settle that. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.640 In April, international interests had raised a hundred billion dollars 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.440 in funding for this thing, and they said, no, we're 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.840 not going to settle. And now it's gonna cost probably 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.920 seventy five thousand Ukrainian lives at least for that cause. 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:58.840 But but they want a squabble. Yeah, and and sometimes 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.480 people want to squabble, and and and it's not really 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.920 a crazy thought. I've watched people. But they are both senseless, 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.040 you could say, but they will never reference it the 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.439 national But well, it depends. I mean, there's a lot 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.080 of people who say that the second Iraq and Afghanistan 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.480 wars worse, senseless, who want to call George W. Bush 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.960 o war criminal. That is true, but at that point 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:31.119 it becomes perspective versus an overall label. Like if media 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.560 finds the narrative, the media defines that narrative that way, 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.800 By and large, it depends on who is the narrative, 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:43.920 not not not Vietnam, yes, but not that one. Vietnam 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:50.920 for sure gets a horrible title. But but again that's 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:56.400 my point, like where maybe we're like, like we don't 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.119 have the information, so we're giving it based off the 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:04.000 information we have. But to say that somebody's reason of 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.560 fighting is system is because you can't make sense out 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.680 of it, I don't know, man, I just I don't 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:16.080 think that's really the good question, Like, well, okay, it 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.040 is the question I'm trying to Like, there's a lot 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:24.119 of hats, you know, at the table, Like there's there's 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:28.919 the local media perspective, there's the Charlemagne Van perspective, and 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.959 there's your perspective, and there's a lot of pronouns floating 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.480 around that are kind of confusing the situation at least 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.080 a little bit. To me, I'm less concerned with the 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.879 NBC Local news perspective personally, which again, that's just me. 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.240 I'm only one of the three people sitting here. Um. 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.760 I think, for like Charlemagne and Van, their ultimate underlying 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.640 question at the end of the day, and I don't 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.080 know if they ask it blatantly or not, but it 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.040 sounds like they're pointing in that direction. Is the community 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.000 in general? But when points A, B, C, and D 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.920 better or worse for having gang violent gang conflicts within 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.680 it or A posted it, that my point so that 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.600 that's where it gets tricky. I don't think none of these. 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:18.720 I don't think Germany is a better place that what 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:23.000 then than it was before because of World War Two? 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.920 I don't think. I don't think America is a better 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:32.040 place because of it. It's all the perspective of what 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.280 you think could happen. Are you trying to prevent what 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.119 you think can happen? Or you reacting to what has happened? 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:42.600 M Um does every time? Does when? Every time when 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.320 a hundred and seventeen street watch crypt goes towards does 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:49.400 everybody in the community sign on? Hell? No? But when 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.440 has everybody in which country? The only time I can 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:55.880 remember America everybody signing on was at the nine eleven. 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.720 America was not a better place after going to war 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:05.040 right with with the with the Taliban, like what you know, 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.000 being present in the Middle East right there, it wasn't 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:11.560 a better place. It's not a better place now. Ship 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.879 still happening right now? Or I think the question is 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.680 has to just be revenged. Are these other places better 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:22.440 places that the US is better? Is Afghanistan better? Yeah? 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:29.560 They destroyed Aliban lands better? I think we'd all say 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:34.840 probably not. They have destroyed these places. So when is 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:37.000 when is? And that's what I'm saying Pete like even 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.399 from Vanish Charlotte Mage level, When is there a proper 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:44.840 reason to fight? When is there a reason to fight? 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:47.960 When is there is there a reason to kill? Is 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:50.960 there a reason to fight? These are really the questions 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.280 This reminds me of when I was studying native tribes 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:00.320 that we're living here and what we call the U 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:05.199 S and the eighteen hundreds, their land was completely invaded 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:10.320 by US and Spanish governments. But then when they retaliated 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:14.000 against the U S and Spanish presence, they were considered 0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:19.480 the bad people. They were considered um, the assailants, and 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.040 and a lot of American people by that rhetoric. You know, 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:27.959 the Apache Indians running through uh An area where Americans live, 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.639