1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff I never told you pro Actually iHeartRadio, 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: and welcome to another classic For today, we are bringing 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: back another female first about Cinciretta Jones, who is a 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: singer that we talked about with Eves on Female First 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: and I thought it was a great conversation. 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: Have you done any karaoke? Have you done any singing lately? 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: I haven't. 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 3: The only in my car that makes me. 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: Say I have a karaoke machine. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: No, we have yet to use this. 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: I should bring it. Hello. 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it has like lights does, but we would not 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: get to the range and the amazing things that Cinciretta 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: Jones accomp but still we could have fun. Yes, well, 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 17 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you, protection of iHeartRadio, 18 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: and it's time for another female first, which means we 19 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: are once again thrilled to be joined by the amazing, 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: fantastic Eves. 21 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 4: Welcome Eves. Hello, Hello, Hi, how are you? How have 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 4: you been? 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 5: I am doing very well. I don't know what to say. 24 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 5: It's hot outside. I'm trying to stay, you know, outside 25 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 5: as much as possible without melting. 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 4: Mm hmmm. It has been possible so far, so I'm 27 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 4: excited about that. 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: But you know, wow, that's a skill. 29 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 5: Have you been off pretty well? You know, I mean 30 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 5: staying in the shade a lot. 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 4: I was. 32 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 5: I was like outside in the car yesterday saying, how 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 5: if this feels impossible, Like I am not even that 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 5: close to the equator and the sun is that far 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 5: away from me, and it's this hot. Doesn't really make 36 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 5: any sense, but you know, I was gonna. I was 37 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 5: just say, I prefer this to being cold. But I 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 5: feel like that also that has a little bit more 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 5: meaning because of climate change, things are in a certain direction, 40 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 5: so I had to double I had to think about 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 5: that again for a second. 42 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: Wow. 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean true, true, I've been like the opposite. 44 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: I prefer the colds, and I've gone outside very very little, 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: which makes me sad because I do love going outside. 46 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be out there for like a minute 47 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: and I know, what. 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 4: Is this go back and does not compute? 49 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: Mm mmmmm mmm. 50 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 4: What about you, Samantha, what are your. 51 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, I'm on the same lines with Eaves. 52 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: I don't want to say it too loudly either, because 53 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 3: I feel like when we do, especially in Georgia, the 54 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: climate's really test you, Like, yeah, you think you want 55 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 3: to be warm, but as we speak, I'm a little 56 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: cool right now, to the point that I'm like, where's 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 3: my blanket? Which I have all year long in my office, 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: so you know. But yes, it's definitely been one of 59 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 3: those times where it's like, yeah, but I don't love 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 3: sweating either, So. 61 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: Which is it? It's a delicate balance. It's a delicate 62 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: balance for sure. Well. 63 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: I am very, very excited to talk about who brought today. 64 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: He's this very compelling story. But before we get into it, 65 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: I'm just curious where you both lie on like the 66 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: singing scale, Like how do you rate yourself? 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: Do you enjoy singing? Did you ever think you're going 68 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: to be a singer, Samantha? 69 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 4: Do you want to go? 70 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: That's funny, as our listeners pretty much know, I do 71 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: love to just randomly sing. 72 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 4: Do I think I'm great at it? 73 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: No? Do I think I can hit a tune? And 74 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: am I okay with harmonizing? Yes, that's how I would 75 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: keep it. Did I think I could be a star 76 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: once upon a time, especially when you know Whitney came 77 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: out with her Bodyguards soundtrack. I'm like, yeah, I definitely 78 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: could hit these notes, by the way, I could not. 79 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: I could not, but I really wanted to try at 80 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: that point in time and had those small dreams like 81 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: maybe I could be a singer. At least I could 82 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: do the harmony the background vocals, but that's about it. 83 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: And yeah, now that I'm getting older, I'm like, oh no, yeah, 84 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: I definitely couldn't do that. 85 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 5: I think singers are really amazing, and I'm honestly just 86 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 5: so often astonished at how many people can sing, but 87 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 5: it's not their careers. But I can blow people out 88 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 5: of the water when it comes to singing. I am 89 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 5: not one of those people. I took chorus for about 90 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 5: a year or something like that in elementary school, and 91 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 5: I honestly have no idea why I was in it. 92 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 5: I think it was probably just because my mom put 93 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 5: me in it. But I wasn't particularly great at singing, 94 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 5: and I think that I can hold a note decently well. 95 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 4: But I know that I don't have. 96 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 5: It because I've heard people plenty of people who have 97 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 5: it and. 98 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: I ain't got whatever that is. I am so yeah, I. 99 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 5: Sing in the shower, I sing along with songs like 100 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 5: I sing in the car. 101 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 4: I love singing like. 102 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 5: It feels great, it feels expressive, and I like the 103 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 5: way it makes me feel. And sometimes I will even 104 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 5: record myself singing and listen back to it and say, 105 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 5: how do I sound like I think I sound, because 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 5: I'm always very curious because I feel like I sound okay, 107 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 5: but do I have reading? 108 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 4: So I'll do that. Sometimes I'm like, oh, okay, that's 109 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 4: how I feel about. It's basically okay, and then I 110 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 4: move a line. 111 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 5: So no, definitely not any significant or noteworthy history of 112 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 5: singing in my life. 113 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: I love that. I too. 114 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: I like singing like in the car, around the house. 115 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: I love a good karaoke. I don't think I'm very good, 116 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: but I have fun. I used to think. I used 117 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: to think when I was a kid that I was 118 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: a good singer and I was singing in the shower 119 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: and a bit like, oh this melodious voice. Now I 120 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: don't think that, So I'm wondering if that's a shift 121 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: in confidence or like perception. Like when I was a kid, 122 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm good, and. 123 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Now like, let's temper the truth. Temper with the truth. 124 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. 125 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: I mean, I but I never I used to think 126 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: I could be like a big time actor. I never 127 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: thought I could be a singer. There was never a 128 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: moment where I was like, I'm that good, but I did. 129 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: I was jealous of it. I was really jealous of 130 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: people who could sing. And I had friends who just, yeah, 131 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: they would nail it, and they made it look so easy, Like. 132 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 4: Why can't I do that. 133 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: It's a talent, it's a skill. Yeah, but yeah, I 134 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: do enjoy it. 135 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 2: Well, all right, now that we've got our past and 136 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 2: experiences out of the way, who did you bring for 137 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: us to discuss today? 138 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: Eves. 139 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 5: Today we will be talking about Cissi Aretta Jones, And 140 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 5: that's why we were talking about singing, because she was 141 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 5: an amazing singer. And even so, there were still a 142 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 5: lot of people who criticized the way she sang or 143 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 5: her ability and singing. But she was the first Black 144 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 5: American woman to headline a concert at Carnegie Hall. 145 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 4: So we'll be. 146 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 5: Going through her history. It was long, it lasted many decades, 147 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 5: and it was very storied, and she traveled a lot. 148 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 5: She toured a lot, so I'm excited to talk about 149 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 5: her today. She is like so many of the people 150 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 5: we talk about on other episodes of Female First, a 151 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 5: person whose popularity or interest has waned over the years 152 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 5: posthumously after her death. During the time she was alive, 153 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 5: she had a lot of fame in many places around 154 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 5: the world, but her notoriety after she died did wane 155 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 5: a little bit, and then she came back into the 156 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 5: view of the mainstream in certain ways. So yeah, I'm 157 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 5: excited to talk about her and share her story with everyone. 158 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we're very excited to to hear it too. 159 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: And I'm glad she's getting more attention lately because it 160 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: was just she did so much and it was just 161 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: kind of tragic that yes, disappeared and you can't find 162 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: any recordings yeah of her. So I'm glad people are 163 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: some people have been just fighting for so long, like, 164 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: do not forget this person, do not forget what she did. 165 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: I'm glad more and more people are like catching on 166 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: and hearing this story and you have brought it to 167 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: share even more. So Yeah, thanks me happy, Yeah. 168 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 169 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 5: Shout out to all the biographers who do the hard 170 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 5: work of making sure that these people's names stand people's 171 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 5: minds and in people's hearts over the years, so really 172 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 5: grateful for all of them obviously, So. 173 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll get into her story. 174 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 5: She was born Matilda Ciciaretta Joiner in Portsmouth, Virginia, not 175 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 5: long after the end of the Civil War in eighteen 176 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 5: sixty eight or sixty nine. She was the oldest of 177 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 5: three children born to her parents, but her siblings died 178 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 5: when they. 179 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 4: Were very young. Her father was Jera Maya. 180 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 5: Malchai Joiner, and he was born into slavery in North Carolina, 181 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 5: and when she was born, he was a carpenter and 182 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 5: a pastor as well as a choir leader at a church. 183 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 5: Her mother was named Henrietta, and she did laundry and 184 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 5: she sang in the choir as well, and she was 185 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 5: also from North Carolina. In her early life, Ciciaretta was 186 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 5: called Matilda her first name, and also called Sissy, and 187 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 5: they moved to Providence, Rhode Island, to the east side 188 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 5: of the city. Not long after they moved to Providence, 189 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 5: though Henrietta and Jeremiah did stop living together, Henrietta was 190 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 5: played a huge role in Ciciretta's upbringing and they made 191 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 5: money by doing laundry and she would iron in her home, 192 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 5: and around eighteen eighty nine, the Ciciretta's parents divorced, but 193 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 5: she was already singing at a young age. She sang 194 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 5: at school and at work, and as a teenager she 195 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 5: began attending the Providence Academy of me Pretty early on, 196 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 5: she married David Richard Jones, who was a hotel porter. 197 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 5: That was eighteen eighty three when they married, and marriage 198 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: records said that she was eighteen and he was twenty four, 199 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 5: but they were likely both a few years younger than that, 200 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 5: and in April of eighteen eighty four, their daughter, Mabel 201 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 5: was born, So she Cincioretta began singing at more church 202 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 5: concerts and performing with groups here and there. In eighteen 203 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 5: eighty five, she performed with Flora Batson, who's another big 204 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: name in the singing community. She was a well known 205 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 5: black concert singer, and Jones also sang a solo in 206 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 5: a play featuring Black actor John A. R. No as 207 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 5: King Richard the Third that year, and later that year 208 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 5: it was kind of a big deal when she sang 209 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 5: in a concert at the Providence Music Hall starring Marie 210 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 5: Selica or Selika. I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce 211 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 5: that part of her name, but she was a black vocalist, 212 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 5: and she also had a first She was the first 213 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 5: black artist to at the White House. 214 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: But sadly, Jones's daughter. 215 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 5: Mabel did die when she was two years old, which 216 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 5: had an emotional toll on her and affected how she 217 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 5: showed up for her career. But she did go back 218 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 5: to singing and she performed more with Flora Batson, and 219 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 5: she studied may have studied either at the Boston Conservatory 220 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 5: of Music or the New England Conservatory of Music, but 221 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 5: it does seem like she's studied in Boston in the 222 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 5: late eighteen eighties. So she had a concert tour starting 223 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 5: in early eighteen eighty eight for cities in the New 224 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 5: England area, and she signed a contract with management firm 225 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 5: called Abby Shuffle and graw. I feel like my German 226 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 5: isn't My German is not the best, so polase forgive 227 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 5: me for that. She was on a tour of the 228 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 5: Caribbean and South America with a company of Black American 229 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 5: singers called the Tennessee Jubilee Singers. 230 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 4: So this is she's. 231 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 5: Still very young, but she's already doing a lot of 232 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 5: traveling with her singing career. And getting really invested involved 233 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 5: in it and working with a lot of different people. 234 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 4: And it's unclear who was. 235 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 5: The very first person to call her this, but several 236 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 5: newspapers did refer to her as Black Patty, and those 237 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 5: newspapers said that her managers called her black Patty, which 238 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 5: I wasn't there, but to have my manager call me 239 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 5: by some weird personification of somebody else, I just feel 240 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 5: like that's very strange in practice. But apparently that's what 241 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 5: those newspapers said. This was a reference to Adelina Patti, 242 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 5: who was a really popular opera singer in the nineteenth century, 243 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 5: and they called Jones that. 244 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 4: For the rest of her career. 245 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 5: You'll see this referred to in articles about her and 246 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 5: in advertisements about the work that she was doing, her 247 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 5: being called the Black Patty, and she even referred to 248 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 5: herself as that. But she did say that she didn't 249 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 5: care for the moniker. She said in the Detroit Evening 250 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 5: News quote, I am afraid people will think I consider 251 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 5: myself the equal of Pati herself. I assure you I 252 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 5: do not think so. But I have a voice, and 253 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 5: I am striving to win the favor of the public 254 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 5: by honest merit and hard work. Perhaps someday I may 255 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 5: be as great in my way, but that is a. 256 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 4: Long way of head, a long way ahead. So she 257 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 4: was pretty gracious. 258 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 5: About that back then, even though she's commented on that 259 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 5: Moniker more later in life and was just like. 260 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 4: That's not for me. 261 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 5: I didn't put that on myself, but I got it. 262 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 5: But she seemed to accept it pretty gracefully, even though 263 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 5: we've talked about before on female First, my disdain for 264 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 5: this weird using these names to refer to somebody else 265 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 5: of a different race, to say you're of this race. 266 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 5: But yeah, so it was something that was attached to 267 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 5: her and that lasted and worked well for branding, so 268 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 5: we know how important that is. So some other critics 269 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,239 Speaker 5: didn't care for the name, and that was for various reasons, 270 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 5: Like some of it was more from the direction that 271 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 5: she was coming from, like I don't need that, I 272 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 5: don't need this weird comparison to another race. But some 273 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 5: people also thought that she didn't measure up to Adelina 274 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 5: Patti or there was no need to draw those comparisons. 275 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: Or even that like she wasn't. 276 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 5: Black, so while we call her black, she's quote unquote 277 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 5: Mulato some would say. 278 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: So. 279 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 5: There are various reasons people thought this, but the black 280 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 5: Patti is one thing that people called her. So she 281 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 5: and her husband, along with the company, went to Jamaica 282 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 5: in August of eighteen eighty eight as the first stop 283 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 5: on their six month tour. They played in Panama, Barbados, Trinidad, 284 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 5: what was then British Guyana, Antiga, and Saint KITT's and 285 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: other places, and the audiences of these shows were mixed 286 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 5: when it came to race and reportedly the manager made 287 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 5: somewhere around four thousand dollars off of the tour. And 288 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 5: minstrel shows were a thing at this time. I'm associated 289 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 5: with blackface and this kind of silly performance on stage, 290 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 5: caricatures and things like that. But she did perform a 291 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 5: menstrel show sometimes. Her first was probably in eighteen eighty nine. 292 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 5: By that point her husband David was helping move her 293 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 5: career for a lot. 294 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 4: As her manager. 295 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 5: But yeah, so he will come up over the years 296 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 5: as being involved in the work that she did, booking 297 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 5: her shows, going with her on tours, although that relationship 298 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 5: did sour the personal relationship as well as that professional relationship, 299 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 5: and Cisiretta as part of another troop later went back 300 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 5: to the Caribbean and to South America, visiting places like Haiti, Cuba, Granada, 301 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 5: and Saint Thomas. 302 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 4: But this time was a little bit different than the 303 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 4: other time. 304 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 5: Her husband and a black woman who was a former 305 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 5: newspaper reporter named Florence Williams managed the tour. Reports of 306 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 5: their shows overseas were sent back to the States and 307 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 5: that helped grow her reputation. 308 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: And she talked about how she had gotten all. 309 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 5: Of these gifts from people around the world and the 310 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 5: countries that she visited. So this one thing that comes 311 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 5: up in her story a lot is a tear that 312 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 5: she got with diamonds in it. She got money, she 313 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 5: got gold, medals and various gems. And you can, although 314 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 5: we don't have recordings of her, everybody can go look 315 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 5: at pictures of her online. They do exist, many of them, 316 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 5: and they're really fun to look at because she looks 317 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 5: very grand. She looks very regal in a lot of 318 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 5: the pictures because she's wearing these long flowing gowns and 319 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 5: dramatic capes. And you can also see her wearing all 320 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 5: of her medals, which is it feels like the ultimate 321 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 5: flex to me. For her to put all of her 322 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 5: metals on her chest and take a picture like that. 323 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 4: But it's just reflective of this part of her history. 324 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 5: That we're reading about and learning about and hearing like 325 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 5: she got all these metals, which can sound very like 326 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 5: we're trying to impressed a certain thing upon her biography 327 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 5: that wasn't necessarily there. 328 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 4: But she really did. 329 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 5: Get these medals, and she showed that she got these medals, 330 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 5: and there's actual documentation that we can see today, so. 331 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 4: I think that's pretty cool. 332 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 5: But anyway, all of this happened by the time she 333 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 5: was in her early twenties, just her context, so she 334 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 5: was doing a lot and going a lot of places, 335 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 5: clearly working very hard. In eighteen ninety two, she sang 336 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 5: at the White House for President Benjamin Harrison, and she 337 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 5: reportedly sang at the White House for later presidents as well. 338 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 5: That same year, she was in an event called the 339 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 5: Grand Negro Jubilee at Madison Square Garden. It was in 340 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 5: a large venue, it has these mixed race audiences, and 341 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 5: she appeared as this prima donna in the show, and 342 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 5: she garnered a lot of us attention for it. She 343 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 5: later said about this appearance, quote I woke up famous 344 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 5: after singing at the Garden and didn't know it. So 345 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 5: this clearly was a pivotal point in her story, in 346 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 5: her becoming this little kind of larger than white figure 347 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 5: that she became. So in June, she and her husband 348 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: signed a contract with the manager named James B. 349 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 4: Pond. So that contract was supposed. 350 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 5: To be lucrative, paying her more than six thousand dollars 351 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 5: a year, which would be around two hundred thousand dollars today. 352 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 5: So that is obviously a large sum of money for 353 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 5: them and for today. And she was one of the 354 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 5: highest paid entertainers of her time black American of black Americans. 355 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 5: So that same month, she was featured as a soprano 356 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 5: in all black performance at Carnegie Hall. And there are 357 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 5: a lot of quotes about her voice. 358 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 4: Obviously, we can can't hear it, and there's. 359 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 5: Only so much that we can get out of words 360 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 5: trying to represent what her voice sounded like. But a 361 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 5: lot of those quotes do tend to mention how great 362 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 5: her enunciation was. 363 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 4: Like even if those people. 364 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 5: Who were writing about her were hating on her and 365 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 5: didn't really care for her performance, they were like. 366 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 4: Oh, her enunciation was really great. 367 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 5: And some of them would compare her voice to angels 368 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 5: and birds, which is an obvious comparison because the song 369 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 5: birds exist, so it makes sense. But yeah, so they 370 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 5: also mentioned her manner and speaking to people. They would 371 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 5: say things like she's very lovely and that she is 372 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 5: a good conversationalist. So apparently people did take pretty well 373 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 5: to her demeanor outside of the stage. But that makes 374 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 5: sense as well, because it's all fitting as part of 375 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 5: the work that she was doing in the demeanor that 376 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 5: she was expected to carry in front of these large 377 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 5: audiences at the time. And I can give you a quote, 378 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 5: for instance, about what one person said from the Saratoga 379 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 5: Union quote. There is neither brass in her notes nor 380 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 5: thickness in her phrasing. Her enunciation is also perfect. The 381 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 5: exquisite crispness with which she executes complicated skills and rapid 382 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 5: time delight at all with all. She thinks intelligently, without affectation, 383 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 5: and with much feeling. These newspaper articles talked about her 384 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 5: appearance as well, but often they had this air of 385 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 5: being surprised that she was actually great at her craft, 386 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 5: even though not every person who was a critic of 387 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 5: hers said that she. 388 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 4: Was good at her craft. 389 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 5: Some people did say she has natural talent, but you know, 390 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 5: the craft ain't so much there she could do with 391 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 5: more professional schooling, more training and things like that. 392 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 4: They would also do this. 393 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: Thing where they were like, oh wow, I wasn't necessarily 394 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 5: expecting that, I was just expecting hers, like as if 395 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 5: her race would proceed her the work that she was doing, 396 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 5: like it was the race was the reason that she 397 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 5: had this grand reputation that would precede her, and they 398 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 5: would do the same thing that a lot of media 399 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 5: does today with women and with black women, comparing her 400 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 5: to other female singers like Flora Batson, for instance. But 401 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 5: she was still well received in a lot of these places, 402 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 5: and she was making money and she was able to 403 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 5: support herself through her work that way and doing what 404 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 5: she loved in terms. 405 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 4: Of concert singing. 406 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 5: So her manager, James Pond, set her up to go 407 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 5: on a tour with a troop of white European musicians. 408 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 5: That meant that at the same time as they would 409 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 5: attract an audience who wanted to see white musicians, but 410 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 5: they would also choose to perform on stage with her, 411 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 5: which is something that some white musicians didn't want to 412 00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 5: do white Americans particularly and under Pond she was mostly 413 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 5: performing for white audiences, which up until that point her 414 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 5: audiences were mostly black. 415 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: So she's sang with a bunch of. 416 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 5: Different people, like it would be an exhaustive list to 417 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 5: go through all of the concerts that she did. Was 418 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 5: just so many over the years and with so many people. 419 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 5: But she would continue to do voice lessons for years. 420 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 5: She did them with Luisa Cappiani, who was a voice 421 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 5: teacher from Austria and lived in New York City. So 422 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 5: musician and composer will Marion Cook he wanted to put 423 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 5: on a black opera called Scenes from Uncle Tom's Cabin 424 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 5: at the Chicago World's Fair, which was also known as 425 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 5: the Colombian Exposition. Spoiler alert, that did not happen. That 426 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 5: performance didn't happen. Jones did sing one night at the 427 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 5: Exposition though. 428 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 4: Either way. 429 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 5: There was a benefit concert at Carnegie Music Hall and 430 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 5: cciretta headline that concert, which marked the first time that 431 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 5: black Americans played in the main hall at Carnegie, and 432 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 5: there was Cisciretta's first There wasn't much known commentary from 433 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 5: Ciiciretta on how she felt about the racial climate in 434 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 5: the United States. There was some she talked about in Europe, 435 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 5: how she felt like she didn't have to go through 436 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 5: and black people didn't go through as much there as 437 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 5: they did in the United States, and saying that there 438 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 5: wasn't as much racism there. 439 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 4: She did comment on things like. 440 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 5: When how she thought it was unreasonable at these segregated 441 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 5: shows where black people would be confined to the gallery 442 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 5: and white people were able to sit in the orchestra, 443 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 5: even if that didn't really make sense because there were 444 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 5: all these seats in the orchestra in the gat while 445 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 5: the gallery was packed and they were having to turn 446 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 5: people away from that, and also along the way things 447 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 5: would happen even when they were on their tours outside 448 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 5: of the United States of where they had difficulties finding 449 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 5: hotels and getting turned around from hotels when she was 450 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 5: having a hot from place of place place and stay 451 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 5: in hotels along the way. But either way, David booked 452 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 5: concerts for her and Pawn booked concerts for her, and 453 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 5: at a certain point there was controversy over that because 454 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 5: when David booked some contract concerts for Ciciretta, Ponn said 455 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 5: that they had violated their contract, so he sued them, 456 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 5: and he even said that Ciciretta refused to sing the 457 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 5: concerts that he booked, and they had a bunch of 458 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 5: back and forth over that. There was a whole court 459 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 5: case with a lot of dealings, and Cicioretta wanted damages 460 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 5: of five thousand dollars saying that nobody had been abiding 461 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 5: by this contract that they had initially agreed to in 462 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 5: the first place, like that was basically Nolan void after 463 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 5: a certain point, and an initial ruling did go into 464 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 5: her favor her and David's favor, but then another one 465 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 5: right after that went into Pond's favor with a different judge, 466 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 5: and David couldn't book Sisi Reddit to sing at that 467 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 5: point and gigs could only be booked under Pond's management. 468 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 5: The judge basically deemed her ungrateful for all that Pond 469 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 5: had done for her hugely successful career, and yeah, so 470 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 5: there was this contention between her and her manager over 471 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 5: this point, and Pond did stop being her manager in 472 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 5: mid eighteen ninety four anyway, and Rudolph Vocal would soon 473 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 5: manage her for the rest of her career not long 474 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 5: after that. So her career continued to be successful, but 475 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 5: that was kind of a contentious split between her and 476 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 5: a person who seemingly did have play a huge role 477 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 5: in her growing into this large name that she was. 478 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 5: So that's pretty complicated, but yeah, she toured Europe for 479 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 5: most of eighteen ninety five. She went to places like Germany, 480 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 5: in England, France, and Italy, and at a certain point 481 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 5: she began appearing in more vaudeville shows. When she got 482 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 5: to the back to the US, there weren't as a 483 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 5: mini concert opportunities for her at this point, and this 484 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 5: enigma and mystery around Black Prima Donna's at that point 485 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 5: was kind of fading, but she moved into a career 486 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 5: as the star of the Black Pati Troubadours. Their shows 487 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 5: were a mix of comedy of vaudeville, opera and burlesque, 488 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 5: and they would sing quote unquote coon songs, which was 489 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 5: a thing at the time, and have all these skits 490 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 5: as part of this super long, hours long show, and 491 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 5: then Cicioretta would close them out with this grand operatic 492 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 5: performance and that lasted for a long time, a super 493 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 5: long time. 494 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 4: In eighteen ninety eight, I alluded. 495 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 5: To earlier she did file from for divorce from David, 496 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 5: saying that he neglected to support her. 497 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 4: He was cruel to her. 498 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 5: And he had quote unquote continued drunkenness, and she wanted 499 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 5: her old last name back. She wanted to join her back, 500 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 5: and they granted her that, though she did continue to 501 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 5: use Jones in her stage name, and the Black Pati 502 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 5: Troubadours eventually changed their name to the Black Pati Musical 503 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 5: Comedy Company, but that didn't last too long and they 504 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 5: broke up in nineteen fifteen. She had a lot of 505 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 5: travels over her life and did a bunch of shows 506 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 5: while she was part of It would be impossible to 507 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 5: condense her story with the Troubadours into such a short 508 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 5: space because she did so many shows. A lot of 509 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 5: them were these one off nights. Sometimes she would do 510 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 5: week long engagements in places she went everywhere. She was 511 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 5: in San Francisco, she was in Atlanta, she was in 512 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 5: the Northeast, she was all of these places that she 513 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 5: would tour with them and got good reception, got different 514 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 5: positive and negative reviews in the press, and a lot 515 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 5: of deaths within the Troubadors because these were huge performances 516 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 5: with a lot of people in them, dozens of people. 517 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 5: So she was also surrounded by things like that drama 518 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 5: with people who wanted certain kinds of ownership and credit 519 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 5: over things that were happening in the show. And a 520 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 5: split between the managers who were over the Troubadours and 521 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 5: them going their own separate ways. 522 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 4: So all of. 523 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 5: Those things that you would expect with something involving so 524 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 5: many people. It is an artistic endeavor and happens in 525 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 5: so many different places. And mind you, is occurring while 526 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 5: all of these turbulent and like just really dramatic things 527 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 5: are happening in the United States and in the world. 528 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 5: Wars are happening, a lot of technological advancement like cars 529 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 5: being created, did planes, you know, all of these things 530 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 5: are happening while she is going through all of this. 531 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 5: So she did end up returning to Providence and taking 532 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 5: care of her mother after that split with the Troubadors. 533 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 4: Her mother was sick. There was a. 534 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 5: Period when toward the end of her career with the 535 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 5: troube Doors when she got ill as well. After she 536 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 5: returned to Providence, she stopped performing on stage, and she 537 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 5: ended up selling a lot of her jewelry and property 538 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 5: to support herself. 539 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 4: She died in nineteen thirty three. 540 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 5: And I think her story is very fascinating in terms 541 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 5: of what she was able to do at that time 542 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 5: and how much confidence she had. And I really wish 543 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 5: that I could hear her voice, just so I could 544 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 5: like hear what everyone else was hearing at the time. 545 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 5: And we're so pressed by and that so many people 546 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 5: had opinions about. 547 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 4: But it does feel. 548 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 5: Like her story is so bittersweet because she there's this 549 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 5: feeling of she didn't leave this world with much, but 550 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 5: that she left it with a lot. I don't know 551 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 5: her character personally, but from the way it's described, it 552 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 5: seems like at the end of her life, she was 553 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 5: the same as she was throughout the rest of her life. 554 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 5: And so she had this grand experience where she was 555 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 5: invited and welcomed by all these dignitaries and performed with 556 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 5: all these high falutin people and was in circles with 557 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 5: people who were notable when it came to abolition, so 558 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 5: some civil rights leaders, people like Paul Lawrence Dunbar, so 559 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 5: huge artist, so people who were super culturally. 560 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 4: Relevant and did a lot of things that we remember 561 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 4: them for. 562 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 5: But also all of the quote unquote normal people who 563 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 5: were in the audience and watching her and seeing her 564 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 5: rise to stardom and all of these things that she 565 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 5: was doing, and her being on all these trains and 566 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 5: being the star of the show. It seems like such 567 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 5: a glamorous life in such a difficult time. I just 568 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 5: have a lot of complicated feelings around it, because she 569 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 5: seemed to be characterized as this person at the end 570 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 5: of her life who was a lot more mellow and calmer, like, 571 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 5: keeping things a lot more low key at the end 572 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 5: of her life than she did before. 573 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 4: Like she was just the neighborhood. 574 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 5: Kids knew her and would come over, and artists would 575 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 5: visit her home and she would be in her garden, 576 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 5: and she was respected a little bit, well respected and 577 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 5: feared a little bit. But also the modest and economics 578 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 5: for the way that her money was at the time, 579 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 5: all the savings that she had burned through and having 580 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 5: to sell these things and make deals with people to 581 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 5: be able to four things and take care of her mother. 582 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 5: And she died not long after her mother died. Actually, 583 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 5: so yeah, it leads me with this very bittersweet feeling 584 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 5: of this life full of riches in so many ways 585 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 5: that didn't necessarily end in riches, but I'm hesitant to 586 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 5: say like she died in poverty, because she didn't die 587 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 5: in poverty. She lived a life of wealth in so 588 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 5: many ways that are more than just the tangible ways 589 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 5: that are related to her monetary things, her belongings and 590 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: the things that you know, one could put their hands 591 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 5: on and say that that has a certain value, Like 592 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 5: her life definitely had value outside of those things. 593 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 4: And you know that's why I like, I. 594 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 5: Am grateful to be able to share her story and 595 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 5: share so many of these stories. But a headstone wasn't 596 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 5: put on her unmarked grave until twenty eighteen. And yeah, 597 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 5: like Annie said earlier, there are no known recordings of 598 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 5: her singing and people, are you still hopeful that that 599 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 5: will one day because even though there was a black 600 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 5: Pati record label, she didn't really have anything to do 601 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 5: with that. Yeah, but that's her story and I'm happy 602 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:12,719 Speaker 5: to share it. 603 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 2: We're happy as always that you brought it to us 604 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: and you did all this work and you put it 605 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: together in such a great way, because it is it's 606 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: an amazing, amazing story. 607 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: And there's so much, like you said, like. 608 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 2: This is a condensed thing, but there's so much that 609 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: she did that was fascinating, and it's like hard to 610 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: I kept finding all these other rabbit holes I want 611 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: to go down, like, oh, I want to hear more 612 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 2: about this. I learn more about this in her life 613 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: and all of her accomplishments. And then I don't know, 614 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 2: when I was reading it, I'm glad you put you 615 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: have you shared your conflicting feelings around it, because I 616 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: was like, wow, she was buried in an unmarked grave 617 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 2: after all of this, and it was twenty eighteen. 618 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: I think it was a go fundme campaign. 619 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 2: It took that long when she did have this big 620 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: of an impact and people did know her. That just 621 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 2: sort of like have have to have those people fighting 622 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: for you to still be remembered and still be heard. 623 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: And I'm glad, as I said at the top, I'm 624 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 2: glad people have been doing that for a long time 625 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 2: and continue to do so. And I am very happy again, 626 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: Eves that you you shared that story, and now our 627 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 2: listeners maybe can share that story. 628 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: And because it's one worth being told. 629 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: Right, maybe someone can find a recording. I'm thinking maybe 630 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: somewhere in Europe. Yes, it's a hidden recording of her 631 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 3: Grand tour now that. 632 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 4: Has to be discovered. 633 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 2: The HBO mini series you keep bringing up it would 634 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: be the search for the lost recording. 635 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 4: I love it at the beginning. 636 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 2: I would love it too, because that was I was like, oh, 637 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear your voice. 638 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: You can't find it anywhere. 639 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 4: It was like, no, that's even more haunted. Joke, it 640 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 4: really is. 641 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 3: I know that's one of the biographers, like that's the 642 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 3: one wish that they had, and yeah, that's so haunting 643 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 3: to know that this amazing performance is out there. That 644 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 3: was a showstopper. Literally, people were just odd and would 645 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 3: sit there for hours to listen to this and we 646 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 3: can't hear it. 647 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah. 648 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 5: It's like it's all of that that goodness of hearing 649 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 5: her voice has to be confined to that time, even 650 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 5: though thousands of people. 651 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 4: Heard her voice. 652 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 5: It's like, we'll never get to but sometimes, well hopefully 653 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 5: we will, but right now it's. 654 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 3: Maybe one person out there. Kind of also takes the 655 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 3: lesson of taking people for granted and not realizing the 656 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 3: legend that is happening at that point in time, not 657 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 3: realizing that and not recognizing what. 658 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: She was doing, which is just doing something that she. 659 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 3: Loved and was really, really, really well trained at and 660 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 3: good at and talented in and did a lot of 661 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 3: work to be in that field. And it makes me 662 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 3: said that we don't get to hear that. But at 663 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 3: the same time it sounds like, yeah, you know some 664 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 3: of the treatment as a conflict as you have, and 665 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 3: like seeing glad to see that she continued to thrive 666 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 3: as in I guess I'm thinking in being able to 667 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 3: be in her own privacy and to do what she 668 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 3: needed to do. But at the same time, all of 669 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 3: the harshness that she had to deal with, especially in 670 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 3: the United States, you know, it's like, yeah, we did 671 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 3: this to ourselves, so we punished, Like we're punished because 672 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 3: we couldn't recognize how amazing this was. And then those 673 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 3: the evils behind, which is kind of familiar today of 674 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 3: like the recording industry. Yeah, that's kind of like comes 675 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 3: back to play and you're like, yeah, this is what 676 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 3: happens when things like this are neglected. 677 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 5: I guess she does feel. 678 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 4: Icky to think about. 679 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 5: Another place in which a lot of these conflicting feelings 680 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 5: come up for me is and how much she worked 681 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 5: and up to I think it was around forty five 682 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 5: weeks out of the year she would be on tour 683 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 5: with these troubadours, night after night after night after night, 684 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 5: you know, using her physical body. Another part of this 685 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 5: is that this was a very it's singing, but it's 686 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 5: a very physical thing that from her moving from one 687 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 5: place to the other, you know, imagining the amount of 688 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 5: sleep that she was able to get, you know. 689 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 4: How she had to maintain her health. 690 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 5: But at the same time, her health was so taxed 691 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 5: because of the work that she did, and just thinking 692 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 5: about how many years of consistent grind that she had 693 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 5: to go through, and also so much of the loss 694 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 5: that she was having to deal with when it came 695 00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 5: to her, her children, her siblings, her mother who not 696 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 5: long before her, And it feels like a lot of 697 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 5: weight for one person. But at the same time, she 698 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 5: had so much beauty in her life as well. That 699 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 5: offered another narrative, you know, beyond the tragedy in her life. 700 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 5: But I just think about that too in terms of 701 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 5: sus so anomalous for the time as a black woman 702 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 5: who achieved the kind of success that she did in 703 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 5: concert singing, even though she never did opera, because we 704 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 5: didn't really touch on that, but opera was and it 705 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 5: can be such a very white space, and she didn't 706 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 5: have access to that in many ways. But yeah, and 707 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 5: how much she had to grind and push herself to 708 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 5: these kinds of limits. 709 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 4: During that time. 710 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 5: It just I think about that in terms of what 711 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 5: people do today and what musicians than artists do today 712 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 5: as well. 713 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, a lot of sacrifices were made, for sure. 714 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 2: Whenever we get to that, because I feel like we've 715 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 2: been talking a lot about celebrity and the fast too. 716 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: Whenever we do that one about privacy and celebrity and 717 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: kind of the demands on artists and the entitlement we 718 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 2: feel a lot of times around. Artists can talk on 719 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: this talking some more. Yes, thank you, e Well, it 720 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 2: was a pleasure as always to have you. Thank you 721 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 2: so much for coming on. Where can the good listeners 722 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 2: find you? 723 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: Eves? 724 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 5: Y'all can find me on Instagram at not Apologizing, I'm 725 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 5: on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat, or you can just go 726 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 5: to my website Evesjeffcoat dot com and get the links 727 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 5: to all of those things. 728 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and you should do that if you haven't done 729 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 2: it already. You can also find her on this very show, 730 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 2: which are always excellent segments. Oh yes, this thing I 731 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 2: am doing currently, Yes, Yes, yes, Yes, and listeners. If 732 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: you would like to reach out to us, you can 733 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 2: or emails Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. 734 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts 735 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 2: or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks 736 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 2: as always to our sup producer Christina. Thank you Christina, 737 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told 738 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: You is the production of iHeartRadio. More podcasts from iHeartRadio, 739 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 2: You can visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 740 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 2: regul listen to your favorite shows