WEBVTT - Turning Moments into Movements 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.080 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Meet 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.480 your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:29.200 you know, there is right now a movement of sorts 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.560 that is taking place, and I use the word movement 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:38.240 because I really do pray that it isn't just a moment. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.480 And what I'm referring to for this episode is the 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:52.200 movement around workers' rights, the recognition that I think workers 0:00:53.240 --> 0:01:01.880 across industries, across the country are realizing about their day 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:09.800 to day productivity not aligning with the return that they're 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:15.720 getting for their blood, sweat and tears on the job. Sure, 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.320 there are more jobs that are more laborious than others, 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.880 ones that during the pandemic were deemed as essential, which 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.679 just meant that other more privileged, more resourced people got 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:33.039 to stay at home. But as time is faded from 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:40.080 that quarantine moment, it seems as if we have forgotten 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:47.919 about workers once again. And I say that believing that 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.800 we all have good intentions right of tipping service workers, 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.400 of treating people with kindness and empathy. But there is 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:04.200 a detachment that takes place right and there's a chasm 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.920 that I think that is being built between the haves 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.560 and the have nots in this country, and there are 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.440 multiple levels. And I get into a conversation today with 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:23.560 Alexandria Revenel, who is a professor at UNC and author 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:28.960 of the book Side Hustle Safety Net, and you know, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:38.160 in our conversation, Alexandria talks about this idea that we 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:43.000 have that is an old narrative in our mind about 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.560 the service worker around if you take you back in 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.520 your particular state or city, around the fight for fifteen 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.560 right to raise the minimum wage. And there's always been 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.040 this idea that why does the minimum wage need to 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.200 be raised because the peace people that are working in 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.240 low wage jobs are largely high schoolers, right that live 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.080 at home with their families, and these are their summer 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.720 jobs or holiday jobs. The reality is that is not 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:18.880 the case, right, that a lot of low wage workers 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.960 has families, need health insurance, need time off to be 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.120 able to go to the doctors, to care for themselves, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.720 to care for others. But the way in the stories, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.080 the way that we've thought about this and the stories 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.640 that the media has upheld with regard to low wage 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:45.440 workers needs to be disrupted, you know, And I think 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:52.000 about how grateful we were right to those delivery people 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.840 so that we could stay inside as they brought us 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.720 our packages and our food and allowed us to continue functioning. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.280 Why they were literally on the front lines of the pandemic. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.520 I think about all of the workers who are unable 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:13.400 right to do their work from home remotely, and I 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.200 think that during that time and now is many people 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:22.799 are still working from home, myself included. You know, whether 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.000 or not that's full time, part or part of the week, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.320 are able to be at home. There are millions of 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:35.800 people whose jobs require them to be in person, and frankly, 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.719 in our larger ecosystem, we need them to be in person. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:47.159 But that doesn't mean that then those people are worth 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:53.680 less and shouldn't be paid and provided with the opportunities 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:59.480 to live full, whole, complete lives. So right now we're 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:04.320 witness saying what I hope is a movement, a worker's 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:15.360 movement that has seen CEOs and shareholders receive extraordinary kickbacks, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:21.640 build extraordinary wealth in the last several years. Why they 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:27.800 haven't seen their wages increase at all. And Alexandria, in 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.479 her book and in this conversation gets into the bit 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:39.360 of reprieve right that the Cares Act and other policies 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.760 that were put forward during the height of COVID that 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:49.080 gave people breathing room, that showed us the actual function 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.320 of government is to be able to use our tax 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:59.240 dollars to actually help each other and ourselves, not just 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:06.680 put bills into defense. We get into a conversation about 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:16.080 opening up around basic income and what that could potentially 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:20.400 look like. What we thought was this far off, you know, 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:28.240 leftist idea could actually transform how society functions. So coming 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:34.719 up next my conversation with Alexandria Revenel, author of Side 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:42.080 Hustle Safety Net. Folks, I am very excited to welcome 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.320 to OKF Daily for the very first time. UNC professor 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.880 and author of the book Side Hustle Safety Net, How 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:58.880 Vulnerable Workers Survive Precarious Times. Alexandria Ravenel, Let's start off 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.559 with you know, every time that I talk with people 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:07.000 who focus on labor and focus on workers, I go 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.320 back to the beginning of the pandemic, Alexandria, and I 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.640 know that your book goes back way, you know, further 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.560 than that, you know, into the beginning of like of workers' 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.920 rights and these things. But I go back to the 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.280 beginning of the pandemic, when we were all applauding essential workers, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.560 the delivery people that were dropping off our sixty five 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.200 Amazon packages a day, the delivery folks that were dropping 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.600 off our food so that we could stay home, those 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.080 of us that were privileged enough to do so. I 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.600 think it was the only time when I believe that 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:49.080 we were cognizant of those people who were putting their 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.880 lives on the line so that the rest of us 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:59.080 could be healthy, somewhat at peace at home, right, Alexandria. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.720 That lasted for a about a hot five minutes. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.200 Yes, it did, and then we went right back into 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:11.960 ignoring those workers and not tipping them or tip baiting them, 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:16.320 and to the companies continuing to exploit these workers. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.800 You know. And the other day, I live in New York, right, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.600 and there is legislation that is being pushed right now 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.040 to make the e bikes that all of the delivery 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.400 and people who don't know in New York City, our 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.760 delivery drivers do not drive cars. So when it is winter, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.080 when it is you know, twenty degrees outside, they are 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.559 on bicycles or e bikes. And there's a legislation being 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.319 pushed right now to make those free because again they're 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.640 the ones paying for these bicycles so that they can 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.760 work right, and to make them safe because they also explode, 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.720 just killed and have killed people. So I say all 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.280 of this to kind of lay the context that like, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.080 I don't understand how people who work can be anti worker, 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.080 and I just want to, you know, for you to 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:16.480 walk us through this kind of side hustle that we 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:21.480 have believed. I guess over the last several years that well, 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.320 you know, this is just extra money that these that 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:29.559 the drivers, the delivery folks that this that that are doing, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.520 and so they don't really need protections because they got 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.080 protections in their quote unquote real jobs. So talk to 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.160 us about the lie of the side hustle gig economy 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.120 and what your book lays out for us. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.400 Oh wow, Well, first of all, thank you so much 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.640 for having me. I'm so excited to get a chance 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.400 to talk about this. So, you know, in the US, 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.840 we are in a little bit of denial about who 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.920 our workers are and what their experiences are actually. Like, 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.040 you know, for years people have been like, oh, well 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.000 you don't need to pay the wage workers very much 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.160 because it's high school students. But in reality, we know 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.000 that about a third of minimum wage workers actually are 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.720 adults with families. Right, Like, this is not just the 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.560 days of that just being a high schooler's job that 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.600 is done. And especially when it comes to these gig workers, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.960 you know, I blame put some of the blame on 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.880 these platforms. For years, they've talked about, oh, the flexibility, 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.079 make your be your own boss, make your own salary, 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.160 and people have really bit into that, like, oh, yeah, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.320 it's a side hustle, it's something else. But they don't 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.319 realize is a lot of times on these platforms, the 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.880 only way you can make any money is if you 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.800 actually devote all of your time to doing this. You know, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.920 most of those delivery workers, whether they are on these 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.640 e bikes in New York or they're in cars and 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.320 their places, they spend a lot of their time sitting 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.520 around waiting for gigs. I'm in New York, I walk 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.600 through the parks and I see these collections of they're 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:01.319 generally young men sitting there waiting or rides and. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.520 Hopefully they're grabbing some food. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.800 And you can see when the dinner or lunch rush starts, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:07.959 they all, you know, their phones start pinging and they 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.440 are off on these e bikes and they are really 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.160 exposed to the elements. You know, the ones that are 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.360 on e bikes you often see like the pouches around 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.360 the handlebars and like garbage bags to try and protect 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.400 their hands as they're out and about, and they're not 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.480 always wearing helmets, and you know, it's the bikes are 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.559 getting stolen, and oftentimes even those bikes, they are paying 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.280 to rent them, or they've paid for them out of 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:36.520 their own pocket. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.199 And it's just more and more money coming. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.560 Right out of out of their earnings, which they're already 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.720 getting sort of you know, hand overhand, you know. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.840 And it's it's so interesting because I think that you know, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.400 when we had our attention focused right, and that was 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.800 you know, for lack of a better term, the beauty 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.160 of the pandemic for those of us again that were 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.600 privileged enough to slow down and to be indoors, is 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.959 to kind of see this larger ecosystem Alexandria that we 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.200 exist inside of that we don't really pay attention to. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.520 That in order for us to be able to live 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.080 and survive, we need other people. We need other people 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.280 that are able to do the jobs that either we 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.680 don't have the time to do or frankly don't want 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.840 to do, but have the resources to pay those people 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:31.760 out right. We never think, though, when I, for instance, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.400 them going into the nail salon to go and get 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.640 my nails done every week, whether or not the tip 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.680 that I'm providing is actually going to that person, right 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.040 or a portion a larger portion is coming out of 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.160 their pocket. Anytime I'm in new cities and I'm getting 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.960 an uber or a lyft, I ask them about what 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.600 portion of the ride that they're actually taking home? Is 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.760 this the only job that you have? How long are 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.880 you out? How many rides do you get? What does 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.680 an average day bring in? Not because as I'm nosy, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.360 I mean partly that, but because I genuinely am interested 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:12.719 in how people survive in really expensive cities right without 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.160 any safety net at all? And so what do you 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.000 find one to be the biggest lie about the side 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.400 hustle that you want a myth that you want to bust. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.960 But also why, Alexandria, is there such a damn disconnect 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:35.600 between and a growing disconnect right between the haves and 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.840 the have nots, and the have more and the have 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.839 you know, beyond more right, Like, there is just this 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.839 growing disconnect and I want to understand how you understand 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:47.960 it through your research. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.840 Yeah, thanks for asking that. So I think the biggest 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.120 myth is this idea of flexibility that you have to 0:13:55.240 --> 0:14:00.600 give up security, income security, job security in order to 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.480 have flexibility. You know, people who work for Corporate America, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.560 they can go to the dentists in the middle of 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.800 the day, they can work early, they can work like 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.640 especially now, where you know they might spend half of 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.480 their week working remotely. We have flexibility. Companies make a 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:22.760 conscious decision to deny flexibility to their worst paid workers, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.960 to their lowest status workers. And so you have these 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.400 gig platforms that come in and say, hey, we will 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.520 give you flexibility, but you're not gonna have any workplace protections. 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.040 You're not going to have a secure income. You're not 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.960 going to know how much you're getting made, how much 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.680 you're going to get paid, because even if you think 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.880 that the platforms are taking a certain percentage, sometimes they're 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.480 changing the percentage and they don't want to tell you that. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.440 And so you see these workers that are like, well, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.120 I can't get a sufficient number of hours. My paycheck 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.400 is stagnating, expenses are going up, Inflation is high, gas 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.440 prices are skyrocketing, and so they turn to these side 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.080 hustles because they view it as something they can sort of, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.920 you know, put in here and there. But the reality 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.680 is that that work's not always available when you want it. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.240 Let's say you want to do food delivery during so 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.840 called mother's hours, right, kids are in school nine two 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.360 nine until three, But in reality, there an't gonna be 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.560 whole lot of deliveries during those hours. And so even 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.640 when workers kind of have it's just like a back 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.040 of mind safety net that they can turn to gigwork, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.920 it really isn't. And in terms of your question about inequality, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.480 you know, I think I think we've seen a couple 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:38.080 of different things here. We've seen that the companies that 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.400 have W two workers are paying them more to be competitive, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.600 They're giving them additional benefits, and we're seeing that this 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.000 sort of second tier of workers, at least in view 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.040 of the company's eyes, they're kind of that reserve labor 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.040 force in sociology terms, right. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.040 They are there to kind. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:02.640 Of bear the burden and to have their work sort 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:09.040 of subsidized. The wages of these typically middle class and 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:14.520 upper middle class professional workers, you know. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.960 And it's really interesting because I think that when you 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:23.440 piece together the fact that a lot of people are 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.800 looking for these quote unquote side hustles, but not as 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.160 not in a way where it was to turn your 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.880 passion into your profession, right, because again I think that 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.920 this is another big misnomer, right, like, oh, I'm doing 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.880 this to turn my passion into my profession. Well, where 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.360 in reality, people are having to get two and three 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.640 jobs so that they can have ends meet, So they 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.200 have the one job that they may not like, but 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.520 that's the one that gives them health care, but it 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.480 doesn't give them flexibility or enough hours to be able 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.560 to make ends meet, pay rent, pay a mortgage, right, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.639 more likely rent than a mortgage at this at this place. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.119 And so I wonder when we're looking at this and 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.760 even like you would highlighted before the fight for fifteen 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.880 that happened in major cities, even my own parents, who 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.320 live in the suburbs of New York were and who 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.000 are arguably progressive, said to me, well, my mother is, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.879 but he said to me, you know, why do people 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.400 need fifteen dollars an hour? When I was working as 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.639 a kid, I was making X, Y and Z, and 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.800 I said, because the lie which you aired out. But 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.800 I kind of want to go digging deep into this 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.560 because there's a narrative change that also needs to happen 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.040 around how we think about workers and who is working. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.960 Is this idea that it is just kids that need 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.399 a summer job, just you know, young people that are 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.480 starting wow, when in fact I just saw recently that 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:08.359 there are a third of New Yorkers that are paying 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.399 fifty percent of their earnings to rent. 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:20.959 Yes, New Yorkers are famously rent poor. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.479 They spend way too much of their money, way too 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:23.840 much of. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.359 Their income on rent because housing prices here are so expensive. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.640 And so yeah, you do see these people that are 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.200 working multiple jobs. 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:32.440 I call it poly. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:37.840 Employment, this idea of working, yes, polly employment inspired by 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.920 one of my respondents who was polyamorous, and I was like, well, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.600 have you got that many lovers and you got that 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:43.520 many jobs? 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:45.359 That's an interesting combination. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.320 But yeah, so you have these workers that have this 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.159 poly employment, and this poly employment sometimes we hear it 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.879 referred to as like hyphenated workers. It can mean lots 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.640 of different things. You might be a creative freelancer, who 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:02.159 has six different freelance clients. Well, guess what when you 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.600 try to go for unemployment or you try to go 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.439 for an apartment, having that many different sources of income 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.320 actually complicates. 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:11.199 Things a lot. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.560 Well, you lost one client, so do you still do 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.840 you get unemployment? No, you probably don't because you're still 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:18.920 quote working. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:20.960 We also see that. 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.639 This poly employment really complicates things in terms of when 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.639 people are making their money. So you have six different employers, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.879 you might end up getting, you know, paid on Tuesday 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.480 this week, and maybe next week you're paid on Wednesday, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.520 or maybe they figure, well you're freelance, right, we don't 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.359 have to pay you on time. That's the whole point 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:44.840 behind the like freelance isn't free campaign from the freelancers Union. 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.680 But yeah, no, it's really tough. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.280 And you know, even let's just take a moment back. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.399 Even if let's say all these minim wage workers were 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.240 high schoolers, what makes us think that it's okay to 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:01.880 exploit high schoolers? Right? Like? Why these are not these 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.680 are not easy jobs? Right, You're not sitting behind a desk, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:09.680 you're flipping burgers, you're in a hot restaurant, you're working 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.080 doing all these different jobs, Like, let's pay people for 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.080 how important that job is. Let's pay them based on 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.440 what that job is worth and not sit They're like, oh, well, 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:21.639 I mean it reminds me of kind of what we 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.320 used to say about like women's wages back in the 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.480 eighteen hundred, yeah, early nineteenth right, Like right, you don't 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:29.400 need the money. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.000 Because they have husbands, right, yeah, but. 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.320 No, you know what people ought to be paid for 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.400 what they're doing, and their race, their sex, their age 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.040 should not factor into how much they're getting paid. 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.000 Why do you think, Alexandria, that we are experiencing right 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:52.080 now this strike movement right where it is, It is 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:56.240 happening across industries, just as right before I signed on 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:01.439 to here, UAW is expanding or strike by five thousand, 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.200 you know, by five thousand more workers. They've been kind 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:10.240 of doing this trickling, right of shutting down different different cities, 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.280 different plants at different times. But we've seen it everywhere 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.840 from auto workers to writers to actors. We've seen it 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.720 with teachers, we've seen it in the healthcare industry, all 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.800 in the in the past few years, right, and when 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.480 I say few, I mean like the past three So 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.239 what like, what do you believe as somebody that has 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:38.920 been studying this is sparking it, and like is is 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:43.080 this Is it a movement or is it a moment? 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:45.800 That's a good question. 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.920 So people aren't stupid, right, Like we had the pandemic, 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.200 and two things happen. One, people realize like you could 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.560 get you could get knocked out by a virus, right, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.679 you could die from this, you could end up with 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.280 long COVID, you could simply just end up really sick. 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:05.399 And the other thing that happens is we have this 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.080 Cares Act. We give people unemployed, We give them some 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.439 of the most generous unemployment in the world. During the 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.040 Cares Act, right, seventy six percent of recipients of unemployment 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:20.480 between April and July twenty twenty are making more on 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.600 unemployment that they have been making while working. And they're 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.840 making that money. They're receiving that money without having to 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.439 go and endanger themselves, without having to leave home, withouting 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.480 to pay for dry cleaning work, lunches, et cet relevant 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:34.480 to commute the. 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:35.280 Whole nine yards. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:42.159 People use that time to rest, to reflect, to reset. 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.159 You know my books I'd Hustle Safety and it is 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.359 based on one hundred and ninety nine respondents. So we 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.880 interviewed multiple times throughout the pandemic, and over and over again, 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:55.119 people said, you know what, I got, this Cares Act money. 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.120 And I decided, I'm going to spend time really thinking 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.399 about what i want to do when this pandemic. I 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.080 want to think about my career. I'm not going to 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:03.880 work with people I don't want to work with. I'm 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:05.800 gonna take on projects that I want to take on. 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:08.439 And yeah, if people had small children, they had to 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.520 teach at home and run everything. That was very stressful. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.399 But when this money came in, it let people sort 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:18.640 of get a glimpse of what life could be, get 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.639 a glimpse of that, like, you know, upper middle class 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.800 professional life where the money is coming in every week 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.320 and the bills are good and you can work remote, 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:32.240 and like, I think it gave people just enough of 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.199 a taste. And then we go back into this like 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.720 oh back you know, business as usual, and people are like, 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.160 oh no, no, no, no no. I chased the promise land. 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.439 I want the promise Land. And you know, as you 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:49.240 brought up yourself right, we were recognizing workers in New York. 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.920 We were clapping every night, at seven pm. 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.600 And I think that people realize, wait, we can come together, 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.800 and if we can come together and we'ren't happy with work, 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:02.880 the answer is a strike. The answer is union organizing. 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:07.440 The answer is labor taking on some of the the 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:11.160 biggest approval ratings that we have seen in decades. 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.480 You know what I think too, also happened during that 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.560 time again for those that were privileged enough to have 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:22.600 some rest and reflection, is also this idea that we 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:28.760 watched how wealthy people became uber wealthy, right, like there 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.880 was it. There is such a And you tell me 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.520 because I grew up during the time of you know, 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.800 lifestyles of the rich and famous, of remembering seeing that, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.520 you know, come across the television screen in my grandparents' home. 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:48.119 I you know, there have always been rich people, right, 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:51.280 There's always been people that have had more than everybody else. 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:55.360 What do you think though, that it is about this 0:24:55.520 --> 0:25:01.480 current cycle of wealth that is producing this type of 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:05.880 pushback in anger that is different from other points in 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:06.680 our history. 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:09.359 So, you know, one of the things we did with 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.679 interviewing these one hundred and ninety nine workers, we interviewed 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:15.080 them very early in the pandemic, beginning in April twenty twenty, 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.639 we have this paper. Some of us are in yachts 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:20.800 and some of us are in Dinghy's. And what happened, 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:23.640 especially in the New York area, is that, you know, 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.680 all the low age workers were stuck in New York, right, 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:29.960 It's like Hurricane Katrina all over again. You don't have 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:31.640 a car, you don't have a beach house, you don't 0:25:31.640 --> 0:25:34.600 have anywhere to go to. And all the wealthier people, 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.440 all the you know, the owners of those restaurants, all 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:41.920 of Wall Street, they all fleeted their second homes. And 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:45.479