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Speaker 1: A little late, but better late than never. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. My apologies. We usually like to have these

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Speaker 1: episodes on Friday. However, I did a little girls trip

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Speaker 1: with my mom and my aunt to New Orleans this weekend,

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Speaker 1: and while I would admit that it probably would have

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Speaker 1: made for a fun episode, I am actively trying to

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Speaker 1: keep my job before the season starts, so we pushed

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Speaker 1: it to Sunday, when I have allegedly recovered from said trip.

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Speaker 1: And here to join me today on this fresh episode

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Speaker 1: of Cardinal Territory is my good friend Kyle Reese. He

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Speaker 1: covers the minor leagues extensively for the Cardinals. He is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite Twitter followers. He is a fellow degenerate.

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Speaker 1: So that's three for three. Kyle, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy here, Katie. I'm incredibly excited. I cannot

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Speaker 2: wait to talk it over with you. I mentioned to

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Speaker 2: you I'm drinking a really heavy alcohol content beer for

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Speaker 2: the PAD people and for you. Since you can't thank.

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Speaker 1: You, well, I can. I just don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: the best idea. I think my body would quite literally quit.

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Speaker 1: I'd never been to New Orleans before. And shout out

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Speaker 1: to my mom and my aunt. They can party. I

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Speaker 1: guess this is hereditary. I had some trouble keeping up.

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Speaker 1: Dare I say, I'm just not in a mid season form.

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Speaker 1: I have some work to do before spring training.

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Speaker 2: It's not even spring training, Katie. It just wasn't fair

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Speaker 2: to ask you to perform at that high level.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you great. I'm so glad you understand. Kyle.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot to get into despite again another

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Speaker 1: episode where no moves have been made. One of these

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Speaker 1: days I will have news for the fellow supporters of

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Speaker 1: this podcast. I promise you that it just isn't today.

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Speaker 1: You and I caught up last weekend at Winter warm

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Speaker 1: Up and we had a grand old time. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I kind of got a

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Speaker 1: little bit more in the zone for the season to start.

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Speaker 1: Baseball is actually very soon, it doesn't feel that way,

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Speaker 1: but Winter warm Up, I think there was a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about. What were your takeaways from the whole

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Speaker 1: I don't know, three day event.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one thing that stood out and I

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Speaker 2: heard you talk about this with Trevor last episode. There

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Speaker 2: was a certain amount of energy with the players that

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Speaker 2: I don't feel like has been present in the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years. It seemed like the new hitting coach,

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Speaker 2: Brent Brown is really facilitating some of this energy, some

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Speaker 2: of this cohesiveness that the organization's trying to find. That

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Speaker 2: was definitely one of the things that stuck out stood

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Speaker 2: out to me. One thing I know that you know better,

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Speaker 2: way better than I do, is just how important Andrew

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Speaker 2: Kittridge was to both the relievers and the starters that

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Speaker 2: came across. Because everybody was talking about the role that

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Speaker 2: Andrew Kittridge played within the clubhouse last year, from again

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Speaker 2: from starting pitchers to relief pictures to young pitchers, older

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Speaker 2: pictures that really stood out. And I just think other

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Speaker 2: than that, where I have my questions, are these quote

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Speaker 2: unquote opportunities that keep getting talked about and appear to

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Speaker 2: be there on the surface, but aren't necessarily there if

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Speaker 2: you start doing a little bit of digging. And I'm

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Speaker 2: just anxious how that messaging is coming across throughout the organization.

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Speaker 1: So dare I say that you have some questions about

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Speaker 1: the youth movement? It's crazy, It's almost like we planned

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Speaker 1: that transition. That was one of my best Actually, no,

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Speaker 1: I think it's valid. Look, I'm on board with the

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Speaker 1: youth movement. I understand it. It's been needed, and I

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Speaker 1: think if your Cardinals fan has been paying attention to

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Speaker 1: the messaging about the organization over the last four months,

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Speaker 1: you may not love it. You may not love the

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Speaker 1: direction they're going, certainly not loving the lack of spending.

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Speaker 1: But maybe we can understand why this is necessary. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you were there for Sonny Grain Wilson Controrosts, both who've

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Speaker 1: been in the organization for less than two years, and

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Speaker 1: said this is needed. I mean Contrarasts went out to

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Speaker 1: say straight out Minola system was bad. Crazy. When I

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Speaker 1: said that, I got yelled at. It's okay, I'm not

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Speaker 1: mad or anything too. Yeah, weird, and I like the

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Speaker 1: idea of the youth movement. It's the right timing. John

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Speaker 1: Moselac is stepping down, Heim Bloom is taking over. There

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Speaker 1: is a you know, Gate revenue is out of decline,

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Speaker 1: the television deal. People get tired of hearing about it,

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Speaker 1: but it is a legit thing. This is a good

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Speaker 1: time to maybe like clear the books and do this

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Speaker 1: reset so that when the next front office takes over

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Speaker 1: there aren't very many questions. But in order to do that,

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Speaker 1: you have to guarantee playing time, and with the way

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Speaker 1: the roster is currently constructed, I'm not sure that they

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Speaker 1: can guarantee playing time to every single player they want

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Speaker 1: to right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in my mind. I keep calling it the

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Speaker 2: illusion of opportunity because it is a something that they

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Speaker 2: can keep harping on and keep talking about. But really,

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Speaker 2: when you break it down, the only opportunities that they're

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Speaker 2: creating and that they've been vocal about creating, are for

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Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker. Everyone else is like a

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Speaker 2: sidebar or a side note, like it could happen. And

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Speaker 2: I think that for me, at least, when I look

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Speaker 2: at the whole picture, I think Nolan Gorman and Jordan

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Speaker 2: Walker are two completely different test subjects. Like Nolan Gorman's

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Speaker 2: kind of been given this already. Sure, at the end

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Speaker 2: of last year he got sent down to the minors,

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Speaker 2: but he was given a runway of months, multiple months

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Speaker 2: to get himself right without the fear of getting sent

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Speaker 2: down to the minors, and he just wasn't able to

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Speaker 2: do it. And sure, I think that you know, that's

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Speaker 2: that's I guess that's where the question is what is opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I've heard some people, maybe a little bit more in

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Speaker 2: tune with the organization, say that it is about the

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Speaker 2: opportunity for Walker and Gorman to feel like there isn't

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Speaker 2: going to be pressure to be sent down if they struggle.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that that's the message that the Cardinals

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Speaker 2: have sent to the fans or to the players, but

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Speaker 2: I can understand where that would be the story or

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Speaker 2: the message. But it's just aside from those two, there

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Speaker 2: really aren't any open opportunities, whether Nolan Arnatto is on

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Speaker 2: the roster or not, which you know, it just it's

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Speaker 2: a really interesting time, especially when fans are clamoring for

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Speaker 2: a clear message, and we've only seen it fluctuate from

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Speaker 2: the end of season presser until today.

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Speaker 1: Correct. I think you're spot on all of that, and

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Speaker 1: let's go to Nolan Gorman first, because you're right, the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals have promised like opportunity garan time to Gorman and Walker.

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Speaker 1: But there are many other guys who I think they

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Speaker 1: need to figure out, Lars Newparr, Pedro Pa Hesivon Herreraz.

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Speaker 1: These are just position players. We'll get into the pitching later.

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Speaker 1: We saw Nolan Gorman in twenty twenty four have an

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Speaker 1: extended amount of time for a team that was competing,

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Speaker 1: And I get fans in the organization have different definitions

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Speaker 1: of competing, but up until the middle of August, the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals were right there in that wild card race, and

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Speaker 1: there were many times where I did not think the

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Speaker 1: production of Nolan Gorman matched up for a team that

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Speaker 1: was heavy on competing, and in my opinion, he had

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Speaker 1: a really extended leash to the point where that when

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Speaker 1: he was sent down, Obviously you don't wish to spre

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Speaker 1: any player or you don't, you know, advocate for this,

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Speaker 1: but it was like, yeah, you know what, he needs

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Speaker 1: to go there because his confidence is shot and he's

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Speaker 1: no longer contributed at the major leagues. But I saw

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Speaker 1: that opportunity. We saw that opportunity for Gorman. Walker a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a different story. If you've listened to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, you know how I feel about the situation,

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Speaker 1: and I think this opportunity for Jordan Walker is so crucial.

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Speaker 1: Talking to Jordan and listening to how he handle his

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Speaker 1: press conference that went and warm up, I hadn't seen

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Speaker 1: that kind of charisma or energy from Jordan Walker in

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Speaker 1: about two years he seems really invested with Brandon Brown,

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Speaker 1: someone who I've just you know, introduced myself to but

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Speaker 1: not really had a chance to get to know. So

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to do that. But that was old Jordan Walker.

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Speaker 1: We saw at the podium. That was a convicted Jordan Walker,

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Speaker 1: a happy Jordan Walker. And I think this opportunity will

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Speaker 1: really benefit him. So at least the Cardinals have promised

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Speaker 1: consistent playing time to him in right field as well.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about all of the other guys. I

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Speaker 1: made two little tiny rosters that so good. I'm an

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Speaker 1: artist too. I don't know if you guys knew that,

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Speaker 1: one Arnado and one without. So twenty twenty five Lineup,

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Speaker 1: Part one includes Nolan Arnado because we're two weeks away

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Speaker 1: from spring training and guess what, they are not even

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Speaker 1: close at all to trading him. What a time, What

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Speaker 1: a time to be alive. So I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: under the impression, like the like Jamallack and Oli Marmalalar

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Speaker 1: that they're going to plan for him to be on

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Speaker 1: the roster until he's not. So there guys that are

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Speaker 1: going to play no matter what. Mason Win is going

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Speaker 1: to play shortstop every day, Wilson Conterras is going to

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Speaker 1: be in the lineup every day, probably at first base,

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Speaker 1: maybe a DH. Brendan Donovan's going to be in the

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Speaker 1: lineup every day. We don't know where, but let's just

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Speaker 1: say this is, you know, your tentative opening day lineup

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Speaker 1: with Nolan ar not a still on the team, nolan'

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Speaker 1: not at third base, Mason went at shortstop, Nolan Gorman

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Speaker 1: at second, Wilson con Juris at first, some combination of

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Speaker 1: Pedro Pahz Yvon Herrera behind the plate. Your outfield goes

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Speaker 1: Donovan and left Walker and right and this go already

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Speaker 1: goes down to like where there's kind of a jam here.

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Speaker 1: You're almost forced to play a Lars new Bar in

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Speaker 1: center field because there's nowhere else to put him, and

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Speaker 1: he is one of those players that the Cardinals need

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Speaker 1: to figure out. And then of course burlsten is your DH.

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Speaker 1: It's not a super convincing lineup, and for a very

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Speaker 1: long time the Cardinals have been very wary of putting

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Speaker 1: Lars new Bar in center field. And I'm not sure. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm a large New Bar enthusiasts as well. If I

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Speaker 1: want someone with the extensive injury history, such as Lars

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Speaker 1: to be playing center field. Kyle, what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way, you know, the Lars

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Speaker 2: new Bar in center. First off, I want the Cardinals

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Speaker 2: to field their best lineup, and there is an argument

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Speaker 2: to be made that even if Arnado does get traded,

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Speaker 2: that Lars Newbar in center actually gives them their best lineup.

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Speaker 2: But it just reeks of Tyler O'Neal in center field

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Speaker 2: where he's probably going to throttle back a little bit

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Speaker 2: if he can. But we like it went to warm up.

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Speaker 2: That was another thing Lars talked about, the inability to

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Speaker 2: throttle back, Like if he's going to go on the field,

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Speaker 2: he's going to go all out. He's not going to

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Speaker 2: worry about accidentally bumping like he's having in the back

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Speaker 2: of his mind. But that's not going to stop him

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Speaker 2: from tracking a ball to the wall and being worried

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Speaker 2: that he's accidentally going to bump into the wall and

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Speaker 2: he's going to crumble into a ton of bricks. So

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Speaker 2: it's it is. It is a tough balance there, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's my thought in particular with Lars. I just when

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Speaker 2: you look up and down, it's it's just such an

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Speaker 2: unusual group of players that you're trying to create opportunity

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Speaker 2: for as well. You know, we heard Alec Burlson talk.

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Speaker 2: Alec Burlson talked about he might play a little corner outfield.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: He seemed convinced that most of his his reps and

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Speaker 2: his opportunities are going to be at first along with Wilson.

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Speaker 2: So that makes an interesting DH conversation there. It just

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Speaker 2: it seems very confusing to me on the outside as

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Speaker 2: I try to piece it all together. And then like

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Speaker 2: the redundancy that they have in center field if they

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Speaker 2: do trade Arnatto with Sianni and Victor Scott the second.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of my takeaways from winter warm up was just

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Speaker 2: how much Oliver Marmole seems to really love Michael Sianni.

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Speaker 2: He couldn't wait to rant on and on about how

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Speaker 2: before he got hurt he was a real hitter. Never

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Speaker 2: mind that he was just taking seventy five percent of

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Speaker 2: his hits to the opposite field because they were just

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Speaker 2: throwing him high fastballs with two strikes, you know, because

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Speaker 2: they they didn't worry about him. There was nothing to

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Speaker 2: worry about because it's Michael Sianni. So all of that

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Speaker 2: is just to say you're you were dead on about

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Speaker 2: everything you just said, and it seems like the more

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Speaker 2: you talk about it, the more you converse, the more

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Speaker 2: confusing the whole lineup gets and the opportunities get as well,

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Speaker 2: because there aren't a whole lot out there. One there.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say one of the other things, and

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Speaker 2: maybe you can explain it to me too. I'm asking you, like,

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Speaker 2: we've heard the Cardinals talk about if they can move

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Speaker 2: our NATO that they'd be interested in signing relief help.

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Speaker 2: And also a right handed bat, and the right handed

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Speaker 2: bat for like the bench is also something I can't

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Speaker 2: wrap my mind around because if you're trying to create opportunity,

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Speaker 2: then if you're bringing in a right handed bat for

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Speaker 2: the bench, then doesn't that limit the opportunities for Thomas

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Speaker 2: to jac and also for luken Baker? When am I

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Speaker 2: misreading that you're not?

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Speaker 1: And the thing that I think was interesting about the

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Speaker 1: right handed bat is presumably if they get that. We

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Speaker 1: look at the lineup right now, it's still very left

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Speaker 1: handed heavy, just like last year, and that is because

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Speaker 1: there hasn't been many changes to last year's roster. Crazy

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Speaker 1: I think if Nolan stays, I don't see a path

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Speaker 1: for Thomas to Jace on the opening day roster. Now,

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Speaker 1: I get that's probably a premature reaction because there's six

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Speaker 1: seven weeks of spring training we have to get through.

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Speaker 1: But if we started the season today, there's no way

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Speaker 1: that Thomas to Jacre because he's not gonna send on

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Speaker 1: the bench. They've already promised playing time to Gorman. Donovan

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Speaker 1: needs to be in there every day. You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: sit Nolan Arnatto. Anyone that comments that on this video, no,

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Speaker 1: don't do They're not gonna do it. It's not gonna work.

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Speaker 1: So there's no real room for Thomas to Jace. Even

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Speaker 1: if Nolan is traded. Then you go back to let

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Speaker 1: me check out my second it's even uglier. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: show it to the camera. You're gonna have some sort

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Speaker 1: of combination with Michael Sianni and Victor Scott in center field.

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Speaker 1: And you are right, there is a clear number one

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Speaker 1: in the organization on who they want in center field,

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Speaker 1: including New bar it's Sianni. And for an organization that

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Speaker 1: has always value defense, Michael Sianni, I think right now

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Speaker 1: is your best defensive center field. But the Cardinals need

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Speaker 1: to hit. I do think lineup number one that we

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Speaker 1: just talked about. I do think the potential of having

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Speaker 1: a successful offense or a productive offense. I won't say

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Speaker 1: better than last year because low bar, but at least

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Speaker 1: a league average offense is pretty high, especially because you

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Speaker 1: can trade Herrera in and Burly in as the DH

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Speaker 1: depending on the opposing pitcher. We know Alie Marmal loves

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Speaker 1: to play the splits, but I'm looking at this now,

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Speaker 1: and even with an outfield of new bar Sionni and

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Speaker 1: Walker and then Gorman at third and Donovan at second,

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Speaker 1: there's still just it's it's more consistent, but you still

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Speaker 1: don't have guaranteed time for Burlison. You still don't have

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Speaker 1: guaranteed time for your catchers. What is Lucan Baker? Ali

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Speaker 1: Marmel talked about this. He said, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a good question by Brandon Kylie from one on one

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Speaker 1: ESPN on if this would this youth movement would change

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Speaker 1: Allie's management style, and he also talked about the importance

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Speaker 1: of developing a bench bat. Is that going to be

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Speaker 1: Lucan Baker's role? Okay? Is Burlson's role going to be

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Speaker 1: a DH I don't love the idea of him in

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Speaker 1: the outfield. I think Burley's great, He's a bat first player.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just I think I'm just really confused on

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Speaker 1: how this is going to work, because then we haven't

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Speaker 1: even talked about bringing in that alleged right handed bench bat,

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Speaker 1: which if you're trying to compete, yeah, you need someone

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Speaker 1: like a Chris Taylor. You know that's someone that the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers are trying to move off of. Sure he makes

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Speaker 1: your team. Would you rather that opportunity to go to Baker?

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Speaker 1: Or do the Cardinals want a proven veteran. We know

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Speaker 1: how Mo feels about those. He loves them. And I

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Speaker 1: don't fault the Cardinals for still trying to compete. I

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Speaker 1: said this before. I think you should always try to

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Speaker 1: compete if you're the Saint Louis Cardinals. They did not

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Speaker 1: need to do a full fledge rebuild. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: they didn't, but their plan. I hope we get more

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Speaker 1: clarity on how this playing time will actually work, because

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Speaker 1: right now, it's just like a bunch of pieces that

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Speaker 1: they say they want to play, and I'm having a

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Speaker 1: hard time making them all fit, especially if Barnado is

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Speaker 1: still here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And all of this is we haven't even

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Speaker 2: got to the pitching yet.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: The only area where they've subtracted from last year really,

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Speaker 2: as you talk about it being basically the same roster

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Speaker 2: are Gibson and Lynn, you know, like that's it, and

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Speaker 2: those two spots in the rotation, if you're to believe

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Speaker 2: what the front office is even saying to the public,

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Speaker 2: those two spots are relatively taken. The rotation is almost

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Speaker 2: pretty well set, and the bullpen. The only real opportunity

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Speaker 2: there is to replace Andrew Kittridge from an organizational standpoint,

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Speaker 2: So it's it's so confusing, and they you know, they

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Speaker 2: can keep talking over and over again about creating opportunity,

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Speaker 2: but when the opportunity is only there for a starter

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Speaker 2: to become a starter if there's an injury, then that's

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Speaker 2: not really an opportunity. That is again like the illusion

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Speaker 2: of opportunity. It's I don't I don't know how else

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Speaker 2: to quantify it or to to because I just like

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Speaker 2: that's so obvious that that's the issue. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: going to go into spring banking on somebody getting hurt

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Speaker 2: and having enough depth in McGreevy or Thompson or whoever

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Speaker 2: else might be. Maybe Matthew's probably not you know, maybe

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Speaker 2: someone else give it for those guys to maybe get

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Speaker 2: an opportunity, And it does not look like that's there

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Speaker 2: without injury. So even even on that side, it's just

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Speaker 2: another level of confusion to add to this year of opportunity,

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Speaker 2: this transition here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think there's a two fold here. Finally,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the Cardinals have adequate depth for starting

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Speaker 1: pitching in case something goes wrong, because something is going

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Speaker 1: to go wrong. It's just the nature of the game.

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Speaker 1: And they're certainly not the only team that has had

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Speaker 1: to deal with starting pitching injuries. Let's look at the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Dodgers for example. Now, do I love the

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Speaker 1: idea of a full veteran rotation. I mean yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love Senny Grays and Ace Sure right now, your number

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Speaker 1: two it is probably Andre Polante, which is no knock

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Speaker 1: on him. Good for Blunte he ran with that opportunity

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Speaker 1: last year. And then you have some sort of combination

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Speaker 1: of Miles Michaelis, Eric Fetti and maybe Stephen Matts. I

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Speaker 1: have a theory, and we're going to get to that one.

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Speaker 1: What does that do for Mike McGreevey. What do you

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Speaker 1: what are you gonna see out of Zach Thompson, who

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Speaker 1: this is by far and away his last year to

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Speaker 1: get right with his organization. They're gonna, I think it

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Speaker 1: makes sense stretch out a lot of these guys to

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Speaker 1: be starters. Matthew Libertori, Gordon Griseppo. Of course you want

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Speaker 1: some depth. Drew Ramas coming back from injury and you

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Speaker 1: need this depth. I remember my very first year in

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Speaker 1: twenty one, the Cardinals broke camp with two out of

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Speaker 1: five starters, and I was like, look, I know I've

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Speaker 1: been on this job for like three days, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think this is normal. I'm call me Gray. I

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Speaker 1: just don't think this is right. And so I like

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Speaker 1: I like the veteran stability because once say what you

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Speaker 1: want about Miles Michaelist, but he's proven to eat innings

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Speaker 1: and that's important when you have a bunch of young

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Speaker 1: guys in the minors. Sunny great, you know what you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get out of him. Eric Fetty, Yeah, whatever, I

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Speaker 1: think this is an opportunity. We talked about filling the

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Speaker 1: void for h Andrew Kittridge. This can go right into

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Speaker 1: my next segment. Gosh, so good, I'm so on it today.

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Speaker 1: And having to fill him, Well, we know what Steven

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Speaker 1: Matts is as a starter. We also know and this

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Speaker 1: is again nothing against Steven as a person. We know

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Speaker 1: what he can and can't do, and he has not

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Speaker 1: been able to notch a full season of health. When

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Speaker 1: he starts, he's relatively effective, But when he's in the bullpen,

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Speaker 1: I think he's just as if not more. If you

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Speaker 1: want to see what you have in starting pitching, and

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Speaker 1: Stephen mats is on an expiring deal, Miles Michaels is

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Speaker 1: not going to go to the bullpen, right but Stephen Mattz,

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Speaker 1: who has had difficulty making twenty plus starts since he

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Speaker 1: became a cardinal, why not move him to the bullpen

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Speaker 1: see if he can fill that Kittridge void or at

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Speaker 1: least provides some sort of veteranstability, because other than Ryan

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Speaker 1: Helsley there is none. And bring in Mike mcgreeby to

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Speaker 1: start every fifth day bare minimum. I think that is

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Speaker 1: just you know, I'm no genius, but I think that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty logical solution right now, in order to creat

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Speaker 1: an opportunity as the Cardinals say.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly where I am at to. It doesn't make

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Speaker 2: sense to me. I guess they saw enough about Mattz's

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Speaker 2: repertoire change in beefing up at the end of last

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Speaker 2: year that they feel confident that he could start if

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Speaker 2: he stays healthy. But you know, last they tried to

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Speaker 2: do that thing out of spring training where they were

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Speaker 2: extra careful with him, where they babied him and babied him,

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Speaker 2: and then what happened exactly what you would expect, which

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Speaker 2: could actually lead us into Cooper Jrpy talk. But that's

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Speaker 2: a whole different start, a whole we should have waited.

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Speaker 2: I'm throwing you off your on game.

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Speaker 1: Great doing so good, Kyle. You've seen the show before.

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Speaker 1: It's usually not like this.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know last year they tried to baby

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Speaker 2: him and it didn't work. They tried to be aggressive

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Speaker 2: with him, and it doesn't work. So I do understand

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Speaker 2: why you would say somebody's going to get hurt, because

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Speaker 2: in the back of your mind, you're saying Steven Matts

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Speaker 2: is the guy who's going to get hurt, and somebody

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Speaker 2: will take a spot. But I think back to twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, the controversial playoff game against the Philly is

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Speaker 2: the first one when they were trying to bridge to

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Speaker 2: Ryan Helsley. Well, they left Steven Matts in the bullpen

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Speaker 2: for that game, and he had come on as a

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Speaker 2: really strong bullpen piece.

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Speaker 1: You know that.

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Speaker 2: I think that if they would have utilized him properly

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two out of the bullpen, I think

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Speaker 2: that you would have had your bridge. And I think

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Speaker 2: that he can be that bridge again in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: That is the next year, right is that? What year

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Speaker 2: it is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, we're here.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty five, he would be the perfect

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Speaker 2: guy for that role, you know. I with the way

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Speaker 2: that JoJo's second half, Jojo Romero second half went, I

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Speaker 2: would feel way more comfortable, especially because I think Matthew

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Speaker 2: Libertore is going to be in the bullpen. But I

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Speaker 2: like the lefty combo of Matt's and Libertire out of

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Speaker 2: the bullpen. I think that there's some real high upside

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Speaker 2: there with some real high velocity for both of those

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Speaker 2: guys that they'll be able to show on a regular

431
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 2: basis and with some filthy stuff. So again, like you

432
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: talk about opportunity creating opportunity. That's an easy, quick way

433
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 2: to create opportunity. And then at that point you wouldn't

434
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 2: even have to give that job to McGreevy. I think

435
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 2: McGreevy would get it. I think McGreevy earned it. I've

436
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: never been a big Michael McGreevy fan, but he's won

437
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 2: me over with his repertoire tw with his repertoire change

438
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 2: and how he's developed as a pitcher to be a

439
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: back end of the rotation starter. But he could be

440
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: in a battle with Matthews, and I mean I would. Again,

441
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm the minor league guy, so I would. I would

442
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 2: open that thing up to Matthews, to Jerpy, to Grisepho,

443
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 2: to Bedell, although probably some of those other guys wouldn't

444
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 2: be in there. Like I would open it up to

445
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 2: everybody and say, all right, have at it. That fifth

446
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 2: spot that is for whoever can take the reins, even

447
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 2: though spring training doesn't matter at all. We're gonna make

448
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 2: this real open, make this open to everybody. And that's

449
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: what I would do. And at that point, you make

450
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: your bullpen better and you would also create uh that

451
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: opportunity in camp No.

452
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm Glad we're in agreement because

453
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now what the Cardinals are

454
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: going to do. They are going to bring Michael McGreevy

455
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: in in the bullpen.

456
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: Hm.

457
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 1: They are going to stunt all that progress he made

458
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: as a starter. And McGreevy has great makeup personality wise,

459
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: that's something I do. You don't get to read in stats,

460
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, going through his triple A log, You're like, Okay,

461
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 1: he's made some changes here, but his conviction in himself

462
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: and his mentality I think is very big league. But

463
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna do what they always do, and I hope

464
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. They're gonna find this starting picturing prospect number

465
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: one or first round draft pick, a lot of potential,

466
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: finally got them figure out where he needs to be. Hey,

467
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: go go throw them relief and then oh, no, we

468
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: need a starter. But it can't be you because you've

469
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: been a bullpen guy for the last month and you

470
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: need to go more than two winnings. Let's go back

471
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: to the drawing board. I mean, we've seen this with

472
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: so many guys. I hope they do not do that.

473
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: I think Mike McGreevey, like you said, is earn the

474
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 1: opportunity to start. There are plenty of pictures they can

475
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: choose from if they're going to build their bullpen. Internally.

476
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: You talked about Libby. I think Livy is fantastic. I

477
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: think he has a legitimate chance to be a promising

478
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: setup man for his career if that's when he wants

479
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: to be. I would like to see Gordon grissethoge another

480
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: chance to start, but I think there's been some sustainability

481
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: issues with the Velo over the last couple of years

482
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: and that's been pretty consistent now. Or maybe he can

483
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: get a chance to be in the bullpen. But I

484
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: do not want to see Mike McGreevey in relief. I'm

485
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: going to literally kick down Dusty Blake's story, even though

486
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: it's not his decision, and I'm gonna tell him there

487
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: is no way that Mike mcgreey should be coming.

488
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: Out of the bullpen. Set the kids up for success.

489
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: You know, you're not going to get lucky like you

490
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: did with Andrea Pilante or a month into the year.

491
00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 2: You're going to send him down to become a star

492
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: and he's going to have success. That's the rarity you

493
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 2: could try that one hundred times over and it might

494
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: be successful twenty five percent of the time at most.

495
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: I would take the under at that point the chance

496
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: of that being successful. So that's I guess. If you're

497
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: not going to create like a real opportunity for the players,

498
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: the young players at the minor league level, then you

499
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: have to at least put them in a position where

500
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: they will be able to have success in the long run. Now,

501
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: you know, Zach Thompson is the perfect example that kid's

502
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: been set up for failure in a lot of ways

503
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 2: since the beginning of his time in the organization. You know,

504
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: he comes out of COVID and they have him at

505
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: Triple A even though he's not ready for Triple A,

506
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: saying they did the same thing with Libertorre in a

507
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: lot of ways too. So I think that the urgency

508
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: to have these guys play a role, especially in a

509
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: bullpen roll, have really hurt them over the years, and

510
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 2: I think it's time to define a lot of their

511
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: roles and also create that opportunity for them within their roles. Yeah,

512
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: I agree with what you're saying.

513
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: Especially because you've seen the cost of a starting pitcher

514
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: these days. You can't go buy a rotation the Cardinals

515
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: tried to do that last year and they bought and

516
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: you know, an average rotation on paper at the some

517
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: of the guys overperformed a little bit. I don't want

518
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: to diminish that, but you can't go by a starting rotation.

519
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: You have to draft and develop it. And since that

520
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: was a key phrase for the Dewitz press conference, I

521
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: would like to see the Cardinals do a much better

522
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: job in the development part. So that's what I'm looking at.

523
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the Matts versus McGreevy spring training

524
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: battle is actually a battle for the Cardinals, but for

525
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: me it is. I'm gonna make it one. That's what

526
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm looking at. And I'm also looking at Pedro Papaz

527
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: and Avon Herrera. I think these are two cashers that okay,

528
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: my Herrera tangent. First, I do not understand how a

529
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: player goes through four levels of the minor leagues and

530
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: gets to the majors and all of a sudden, that's

531
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: when an organization realizes, hey, he's having a hard time

532
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: throwing the ball the second base. I mean that he

533
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: was going to the wrong side of the bag when

534
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: he was first. I mean there was virtually no chance

535
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: you could just run on him every day. And while

536
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: some of that is on the player, the Cardinals, as

537
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: we know, have been very very lenient on minor league coordinators.

538
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: They did not have a catching coordinator, and this glaring

539
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: oversights hell fell through the entire organization. So, no, Herrera

540
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: is not the perfect catcher. He's got a strong bat.

541
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: I like that. I think that's great. Cardinals needs to score.

542
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Pedro Paz came up and I don't think the Cardinals

543
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: were really thinking they were going to see him at

544
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: all in twenty twenty four, and I think he's overall

545
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: the better defensive catcher. But when you're comparing the offense,

546
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: I think the nod goes to Herrera. So who would

547
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: you like to see in this position? Battle? And is

548
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: there a way they can fifty to fifty this?

549
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: So for me, it's it's Von Herrera all day. It's

550
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: funny when you look at the metrics, the Pedro Pajes

551
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: of it all. And no disrespect to Pedro Pajes, because

552
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: everything I say from here is going to be disrespectful,

553
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: and I would I want to try. But look, he's

554
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: a really really nice guy who everybody really really loves

555
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: as a human being, and because of that, he creates

556
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: connections with pitchers that a lot of other young players don't,

557
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: especially somebody who's maybe a little bit more selt spoken

558
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 2: in a von Herrera. And you know, for me, all

559
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: of those years of watching Herrera throw, he would he'd

560
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: throw it to the second base side of second a

561
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: lot on steals, but it was never as like it

562
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: was at the major league level. So I still to

563
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: this day, I don't know what went wrong. And when

564
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 2: you look at when you look at the metrics of

565
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: it all, and I know that that's a hot topic,

566
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: but when you look at the metrics of it all,

567
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: the difference in between defensive metrics or Herrera and pies

568
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: Is is very very thin. As a matter of fact,

569
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, Herrera is a better defensive

570
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: catcher than pies Is, But Herrera maybe doesn't make the

571
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: same personal connections with the pitchers because of his personality,

572
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: which is there's nothing wrong. He's just kind of like

573
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: a soft guy. He's kind of a soft smoke it,

574
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: soft spoken guy, a little a little tender in a

575
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and a little bit more cerebral on

576
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: how he goes about it. As opposed to piece who's

577
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: a little bit more vermose, a little bit louder, a

578
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: little bit friendlier, you know. Uh, definitely the life of

579
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: the party kind of thing, trying to make connections with everyone.

580
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: So for me and for an opportunity, who who's who

581
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: has your who gives you the better chance to win

582
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: on a nightly basis, it's Avon Herrera and it's Avon

583
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: Horrera a lot because the metrics are not that different.

584
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: They don't throw base runners out at a at a

585
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: different clip. It's all about the same Herraic gets better Johns.

586
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: He has a stronger arm. It's just they have to

587
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: get Herrera's mechanics in place so that he's throwing the

588
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: ball to second instead of second, you.

589
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: Know, sort of in the vicinity of second base, yeah,

590
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: second base adjacent.

591
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that for me, it's it's about her

592
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 2: It should be. And if you're looking towards the future,

593
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, Pedro Pajes Michael Sianni are really great parts,

594
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: right like Pedro Payes. If that's your backup catcher, you're

595
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: doing something really well. You're in a great spot. If

596
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: Michael Siana is your fourth outfielder who comes in late

597
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: in games and makes the defense better. Uh, then then

598
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: you're in a really great spot. But those are not

599
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: the kind of guys that you you that are going

600
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: to start in the major leagues for a major league

601
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: winning team. They can start in case of injuries, they

602
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: can have fifteen game runs of twenty game runs, but

603
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: they're not the kind of guys that you're going to

604
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: see on championship caliber teams playing huge roles. So that's

605
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: why I'm I'm all in on Herrera.

606
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: Well, that's perfect segway because I was going to talk

607
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: about our last position battle being centerfield, assuming new Bars

608
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: actually in the corner outfield where he belongs, and it's

609
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: between Sianni and Scott, And I think you and I

610
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: have different opinions on this, but I agree with you

611
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: on this part. Mike Sianni is a fourth outfielder with

612
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: like a very specific skill set, elite speed, great defense, playoff.

613
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: Teams win with that guy coming off the bench as

614
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: a defensive replacement. Absolutely, if you're I do, I think

615
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: he's the better center fielder right now comparative to Victor Scott.

616
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: The second I do. But before everyone yells at me,

617
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: I'll get to Victor I'm not a Victor Scott hater

618
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: by any means. Just give me, give me some time

619
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: right now. If you're trying to win baseball games, if

620
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: Mike Siani's in center field playing every day, again, I agree,

621
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: it's you know, not what the Los Angeles Dodgers or

622
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: New York Mets would have, but he is their best

623
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: option in center field right now. If your goal is

624
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: to contend and build for the future, and use that

625
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: word opportunity again, you need to run Victor Scott the

626
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: second out there every day because he has the speed.

627
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: You can't teach that well. You can't teach our good

628
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: first steps, good reads, jump, any kind of route, and

629
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: that was something that shocker. He was not taught in

630
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: the minor leagues because there was stothing if you heard

631
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: this before, no outfield coordinators, no cordators at all. So

632
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: Victor Scott gets through the minor leagues of all this hype,

633
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: and it's deserved because I think he's exciting and he

634
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: makes all these plays, and he's able to make these

635
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: plays because he is so fast, and nobody is looking

636
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: at the jump, at the route, at the read anything

637
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: to say he's below league average in this, he has

638
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: to get to the major leagues and sit down with

639
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: the coaching staff when they're pointing out all of the

640
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: stuff that he's actually behind at and he has no idea.

641
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: That's not fair to the player by any means. And

642
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: I think he handled learning all of that at the

643
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: end of the Sea and Stride. I think that was

644
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: a testament to him. I think it'll make him better.

645
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: But if you want to get these players opportunities and

646
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: you want to see what this next core if you will,

647
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: can do, you got to run Victor Scott the second

648
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: out there every day, and you got to make sure

649
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: that those wreaths can develop at the major league level.

650
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: You got to make sure that the bat develops. So

651
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: I am under the impression that if you're going to

652
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: lack one position offensively, it should be center field if

653
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: you're making up for it with elite defense. So that's

654
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: where I'm at. I think it's going to be. I

655
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: think Sianni comes into camp with the major nod over Scott,

656
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: But again, it depends on what you're looking for, winning

657
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: right now or winning in the long term. I think

658
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: the Cardinals are still a little bit in the middle

659
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: and what they want to do there.

660
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it. I think I'm really anxious to

661
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: see the steps that Victor Scott has taken. You know,

662
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 2: when he didn't incorporate that that leg kick for timing

663
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: in the box, you started to see him get to

664
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: some of his offensive potential. It took that long. It

665
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: took that mechanic, by the way, that was something that

666
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: we talked about quite a bit. We wanted him to see.

667
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: I can't like, if I had a dollar for every

668
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: time I was like, can somebody teach us kid a

669
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: leg kick? Please just get him get his leg moving

670
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: a little bit, get to some of that athleticism. Like

671
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: everything for him should be about getting to that athleticism.

672
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: And it's amazing to me that's not happening until right

673
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: now that they're right, because you.

674
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: Can't teach that athleticism. That's a gift. Yeah, you can

675
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: teach everything else, but they refuse to capitalize on it.

676
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: Hopefully that changes absolutely, But no, you're you're right, Like,

677
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: that's all of these years the Cardinals had that out

678
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: of Michael Cianni and for their playoff run they would

679
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: have benefited greatly from that. But I just think, like,

680
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: if you're talking about a defensive, a defensive minded, defensive

681
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: first center fielder like your your cap, like your bottom

682
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: has to be Harrison Bader, depending on what the rest

683
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: of your lineup looks like. But you know, Harrison Vader

684
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: had a little bit of power, a little bit of zip,

685
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: a little bit of everything, and you know it makes

686
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: up for some of the times when he's not good.

687
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: And Michael Sianni just isn't Harrison Bader. He doesn't have

688
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: that potential. It's not there. But no, you're right to

689
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: be a fourth outfielder on a championship team. Every one

690
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: of the teams in the playoffs last year would have

691
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: killed to have had somebody like Michael Sianni coming off

692
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: of the bench in that specific role. That's a great call.

693
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: We'll see. I would expect two weeks from now that

694
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: we'll see Mike Siani again getting the reps. But I

695
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: would really like to see what Victor Scott has done

696
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: after us winter, working with John Jay. That's going to

697
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: be huge for the Cardinals. Even talking to John Jay

698
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: and Daniel descalso did their media together and it was

699
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: so refreshing because I think they have that experience, they

700
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: were that core. They came up through the minor leagues together,

701
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: drafted and developed. Drink every time you hear that the

702
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: next six months. Yeah, but they did it right. They

703
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: won when they were young players and they were part

704
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: of that core. And I think if you're trying to

705
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: build that next core, those two minimum are who should

706
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: be in the organization. But we got to get to

707
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: the part where you're going to shine. Oh boy, we

708
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: got to talk about prospects. We're excited about. The best

709
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: part of our spring training is everyone in the organization

710
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: is there at the same time, and there are six

711
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: little fields at Roger Dean Stadium and you can see

712
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: anyone at any time. And for me, it's, you know,

713
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: my only chance really to see someone like Quinn Matthew's

714
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: last year or Cooper jer I just don't get to

715
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: the minors enough. Sorry, I don't know if I have

716
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: a choice, I don't know, Chicago or springfields. It's tough

717
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: for me. But I like swing training because all of

718
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: a sudden you're seeing like who really took strides? I

719
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: mean I don't personally, I wasn't looking at Quinn Matthew's

720
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: this time last year. Now he's going to be must

721
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: watch action for me, who's the prospect you're most excited

722
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 1: about coming into a twenty twenty four?

723
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: How twenty Yeah, see that's what I'm talking about. Who

724
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: knows what year it is? Who can keep this stuff straight?

725
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: Not me?

726
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: Not me either. I almost a twenty twenty five, like you,

727
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: trying to think back on twenty twenty. I couldn't even

728
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: figure and figure out twenty twenty two. If you could

729
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: understand the math that went in my head when I

730
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: was trying to count back to the twenty twenty two

731
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: as if I don't know it's the twenty twenty two playoffs.

732
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, if you think that's bad, you s'ou

733
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: just see me try to calculate ERA. I actually do

734
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: it by hand, so I would like log the starts,

735
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: I'd log the numbers. And Daniel Guerrero covers the Cardinals

736
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: for the Post Dispatch, so this next to me, and

737
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: he looks at me. He goes, what are you doing?

738
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: And I was like calculating RA and he was like, one,

739
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: first of all, my math is totally wrong. He goes,

740
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: you know all you have to you on baseball references,

741
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: click these two things and it does it for you.

742
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: And I was like oh, oh my gosh. I've been

743
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: a baseball writer professionally for six years now, Thank you, Daniel.

744
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: So I get it. Okay, let's get on it.

745
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know there there for me, there's gonna be

746
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: plenty that I'm gonna be keeping a close eye on.

747
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: Uh not just like not just the guys that are

748
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: major league and major league adjacent, you know. Uh, I

749
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: think I think sem Robarsa and Thomas A JC are

750
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: some of the like the guys that are maybe getting

751
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: a little bit more play than they deserve. But uh,

752
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, it really boils down to a group of

753
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 2: really interesting pictures outside of Quinn, Matthews and maybe even

754
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: tink Kents, but I'll include tinku In, Tako A, Robi,

755
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: tink Kents, and Cooper Jerpy for me that those would

756
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: be the three for me. Gordon gricefo you you you

757
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: hit on exactly what I think. I think Gricepho should

758
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: be giving a chance to take the Andrew kitchen Age role.

759
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: Like I think that he has a potential, especially if

760
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: this basketball plays up. But I do think we're getting

761
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: to the point with Grisepho where his best path to

762
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: the majors is in the bullpen, and then maybe if

763
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: he continues to toy with his fastball, the shape of

764
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 2: his fastball, the movement profile in his fastball, then somewhere

765
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: down the line he might be a starter. But that's

766
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: where I like to see him. But it really comes

767
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: down to that group of three. The hence Robie and

768
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: Jerpy because they all have health issues, but they all

769
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: are major league caliber pitchers. I've gone on record many

770
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 2: times as saying that I think Cooper Jerpy is the

771
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say it. I think he's the best

772
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: pitching prospect in the organization that includes Quinn Matthews. He

773
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: doesn't have the velocity, but aside from that, all of

774
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: his stuff is better, and it's filthier, and it comes

775
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: from a weird angle, and it all comes from the

776
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: same release point, and he gets righty's out, and he

777
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: gets swings from rities that no other pitcher in the

778
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: organization gets, left handed or right handed. He's just a really,

779
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: really filthy, filthy monster. If he's healthy, and again, if

780
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are giving him the opportunity to be a

781
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: pitcher instead of putting him on a ridiculous forty five

782
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: pitch count or sixty five pitch count until June and

783
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: then expecting him to maintain health throughout the season. So Jerpy,

784
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: Hence and Roby are the three I'm anxious to see most.

785
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: And then you know everybody's gonna say, JJ Weatherholts, I'm

786
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: excited about Weatherholts. I'm not as excited about Weatherholts as

787
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: everybody else's. I think he's the kind of prospect you

788
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: that is dangerously good and has the chance to be

789
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: dangerously good in spring that maybe maybe makes you think

790
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: that he's major league ready when he's not nearly major

791
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: league ready like that, that kind of dangerous. Like that's

792
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: when prospects are at their most dangerous, when they start

793
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: flashing like they're capable and they're not. They're not capable yet.

794
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: So the only other person really that I point to there,

795
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: along with some of the guys way down on the list,

796
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 2: is Chase Davis. I am fired up to see where

797
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: Chase Davis is both mentally and physically and in his

798
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: approach because I hope the Cardinals pull because I can't

799
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: remember if he's on NRI list or not, And if

800
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: he's not on there, all right, okay, cool, then I

801
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: hope that they use him as often as possible. I

802
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: don't think he's major league ready, but I think that

803
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: this is a great test for him and also a

804
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: great test for the Cardinals to show him that they

805
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: trust him and that they believe in him, and that

806
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: they're really proud of the steps that he made mid

807
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: season last year to change himself, to rediscover some of

808
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: his prospects standing. So, you know, there's players down the

809
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: line that could make their way to the major league

810
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: side of camp, like Dakota Harris is kind of an

811
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: odd utility player who I find myself fascinated with. I

812
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: you know, there's a bunch of players that might make

813
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: their way, but those are the ones that I'm most

814
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: focused on because they're the ones who actually, if an

815
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: opportunity is presented to them, might actually be able to

816
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: make do with something and might be able to make

817
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: something more out of it.

818
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: That's good, that's exciting. And I'm glad you brought up

819
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: Chase Davis because you know, this is the first round

820
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: pick in twenty three and I've been watching his usage

821
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues of the lower levels, you know,

822
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: and I was always you know, talking to people and

823
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: player development and just my own experience. If you have

824
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: a number one first round draft pick, he should be

825
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: hitting top of the lineup for a second third. I

826
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: don't care what he profiled as as a major league hitterer,

827
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 1: right because you want to get him as many reps

828
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: as possible, stick him at the top of the order,

829
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: let it fly. And there were so many times last

830
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: year where Chase Davis for High A Is batting seventh

831
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, I'm not a director of player development.

832
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't love that he's a top pick for you guys.

833
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: There was so much hyper around him when the Cardinals

834
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: drafted him. Get him more reps. So I do hope

835
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: we see him in spring training, and I'm interested to

836
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: see how Rob's ortfolio takes over the farm system. I'm

837
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: excited to see what those guys you mentioned Roby, hence Jerpy.

838
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: What's that Pierpont gonna do as the director of pitchy

839
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: Is that same mentality of keeping these guys on their

840
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: forty to fifty pitch limits in the minors? Is that

841
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: I hope not going to be the same. But I

842
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: think we're going to see a major change in usage

843
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: of these players, which is going to go beyond Spring training,

844
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: of course into the minor leagues, but it is so

845
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: necessary to actually see what they have in terms of

846
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: developing these pitchers, these players, because for a very long time,

847
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of questions about the

848
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: strategy going on behind that.

849
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, Russ Steinhorn and his group and

850
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: the hitting side have all done a really great job

851
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: with development, and they do try their hardest. And again,

852
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: this is one of those things we're gonna we're gonna

853
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: be able to watch change before our eyes. But they

854
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: do give their managers quite a bit of runway to

855
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 2: do what they would like with the roster. I'm with you, though.

856
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: It's something I've bitched in wine and complained about quite

857
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: a bit over the years about a lineup construction at

858
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: the minor league level. And hopefully that is one thing

859
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: that we do see change, because you know when even

860
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: one bin show like one Bin Chow the outfield prospect

861
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 2: with a ton of tools but just a really hard

862
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: time applying it until the end of every minor league

863
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: season and then he kind of comes alive like it's

864
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: gonna be frustrating, but that guy has to bet first second,

865
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: maybe fit at the latest in the lineup, and it

866
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 2: should never be later than that, even if he's hitting

867
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: one hundred in a month, because it just shouldn't like

868
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: he's too talented, too good, too athletic to you know,

869
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: I guess only get three at bats a game, two

870
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: point nine at bats a.

871
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: Game or whatever, How does it tell it there?

872
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: He doesn't exactly. It's impossible to especially, Like I guess,

873
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: I've come a long way in how I view people

874
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: in general, and one of the things, like I with prospects,

875
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: I like to be a little bit more coddling. I

876
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: think you need to be a little bit more careful,

877
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: a little bit more deliberate. But I do think you

878
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: find out who the cream of the crop is, and

879
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: part of that is putting their feet to the fire.

880
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 2: Like I think about Brendan Donovan. You know, Brendan Donovan,

881
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: he fought and he worked and he you know, murdered

882
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: his way, you know, to get to where he was at.

883
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 2: And that was because every time an opportunity presented itself

884
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: in a pressure situation to come through or to do

885
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: something big, he did it. And I think you need

886
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: to do that with the prospects that you think actual

887
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: actually have a real chance at the major league level,

888
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: which is part of my concern with someone like Cooper Jerpy,

889
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: who they put on a forty five pitch count or

890
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: a sixty five pitch count in a game, and then

891
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: two months into the mor league season, you know, you're

892
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: asking him to get into the sixth inning on an

893
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: eighty pitch count, and it's not an easy thing to

894
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 2: work your way through. And he did it magnificently until

895
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: he had a little arm inflammation in July, and then

896
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: they just shut him down because they didn't want to

897
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: risk it, even though it was just inflammation and he

898
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: was fine as real fast. My buddy kareem over at

899
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: Redword Rant on their on their podcast, they interviewed Cooper Jerpy.

900
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: I think it's a Cardinals farm or whatever. I can't

901
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: think of what the name of the podcast is, but

902
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 2: they interviewed him and that's what he said. He said,

903
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 2: I just had a little inflammation. I was fine, and

904
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 2: they just to be cautious with me. They shut me down,

905
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: and I get that, but he's not an eighteen year

906
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: old tink heents. He's a twenty two to twenty three

907
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: year old Oregon State alone, right.

908
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: He's a college product. That's why you draft college products

909
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: to speed along this process. Absolutely.

910
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, he got hurt the year before, had a

911
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: clean up surgery in his elbow, But like, if he's

912
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: pitched one hundred and twenty six innings in college, even

913
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: a year removed from having just some stuff removed from

914
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: his elbow, needs to be on a trick to get

915
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: to one hundred and twenty innings. And you know what,

916
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: if inflammation goes down in his elbow, you need to

917
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: get him out there at the end of August in

918
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: a double A or triple A game. Like, there is

919
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 2: a fine line between caddling and also giving your players

920
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: a chance to persevere in tough situations, and I'm hopeful

921
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: that the new regime does more of that. Well.

922
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: I'm certainly excited to see that take place come spring training.

923
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: Like I said, not only are all the players and

924
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: prospects at one place, everyone in the organization is at

925
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: one place. So you cannot hide from me. No, they can.

926
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: They do a very good job. There are a lot

927
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: of places tied for me, apparently because I'm only allowed

928
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: to go in certain areas. Rude, No, Kyle, this has

929
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: been awesome. I think your insight you mentioned Kareem. He

930
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: does a really insightful job covering things I could never

931
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: even have the capacity to get to just from my

932
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: mind alone. You guys, you've always been such a prominent

933
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: voice when it comes to minor leagues and prospects, and

934
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll see you posting stuff and

935
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, this is a good reminder I need

936
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: to stay up to date on this guy. So thank

937
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: you and congratulations. By the way, because rumor has it

938
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: is that you are Brian Walton on a podcast every

939
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: week Wednesday with Walton and Reese Creative. Are you at

940
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: like an Applebee's In this photo where are you doing

941
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: this podcast from?

942
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 2: You wouldn't know, but that's that's the Green Seat, That's

943
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: the Cardinal Club, That's where the hot band from that area.

944
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: Mister Walton is in the area where the whoever was signing,

945
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: right in the Green Seat area. And then because we

946
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: had terrible feedback, I had to find like a booth somewhere,

947
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: And honestly, it might have been better if I would

948
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 2: have been at an Applebee's. At least I could have

949
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: got like dollar margaritas or whatever those things are.

950
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: No, that's hilarious. I've actually been asked to go around

951
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: and not use a championship club when I'm walking to

952
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: the stadium, so not only was that was like a

953
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: pretty sick double burn. Thank you for that.

954
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: You're welcome for asking you to come on the show.

955
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: This is awesome, Kyle. For those of you who are

956
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: not familiar with Kyle's work one what are you doing?

957
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: You can follow him on Twitter at Kyle R four

958
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: one six, and you can follow us on Twitter as

959
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: well at card Territory. I can subscribe to our page

960
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: on YouTube if you haven't already. If you have, thank

961
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: you very much. You can find us on Spotify and Apple.

962
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: Kyle any last words, No.

963
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: I've got nothing, Just thank you for having me. I

964
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: feel honored in such a large way to be a

965
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 2: part of this. Thank you, Katie.

966
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: No, this was so much fun. I'll happily have you

967
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: back anytime. Hopefully we have some exciting player development things

968
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: to discuss soon. Tremor Rosenthal is back on Tuesday again.

969
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: Sorry for the later podcast, but no one needed to

970
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: hear me talk on Friday. We'll be back and we're

971
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: going to have some pretty fun interviews set up over

972
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, a lot of fun things

973
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: in the works, and one of these days again we

974
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: will have potentially like an episode to talk about a transaction,

975
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: so we'll see. For Kyle Reese, I'm Katie Wu. Thanks

976
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: for tuning in. We will talk next week. This is

977
00:44:51,239 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory, New Jo