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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Devin. We are working on an advice episode,

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Speaker 1: and who more qualified to answer your questions than Man, you,

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Speaker 1: Noah and me Devin. So, if you have an argument

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Speaker 1: you're trying to settle with a spouse, you got a

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Speaker 1: debate you're trying to settle with for a friends, email

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Speaker 1: us at Manuoah Devin at gmail dot com, or you

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Speaker 1: can give us a call at the number in our

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Speaker 1: show notes.

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Speaker 2: I'm Manny, I'm Noah, this is.

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Speaker 1: Devin, and this is no such thing the show where

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Speaker 1: we settle our arguments in yours by actually doing the research.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, how often should you wash your legs?

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Speaker 3: I have no there's no no such thing. No touch,

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Speaker 3: thank no touch, thanks touch, thank no touch thank.

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Speaker 1: So. I think a good place to start. This conversation

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Speaker 1: was one of our first conversations we had about showering.

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Speaker 2: Okay, first conversations about show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember. It's pretty. You know, it's a

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Speaker 1: core memory.

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Speaker 2: Paint a picture for us.

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Speaker 1: We're all sitting in the old business inside our offices,

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Speaker 1: and one of our friends i'll say their name, but

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Speaker 1: we'll bleep it out, was talking about how her dad

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Speaker 1: is so crazy and you want to know, the crazy

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Speaker 1: thing that her dad does.

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Speaker 2: Remind me really struggling to remember this moment.

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Speaker 1: Her dad showers every day, right, So she was like,

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Speaker 1: my dad is so crazy. Guess what. He showers every

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Speaker 1: single day? Remember? And I said, okay, but what does

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Speaker 1: he do? That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: He's playing basketball And.

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Speaker 1: She was like, no, he just hours every day. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that crazy? And we were like no, like, we all

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Speaker 1: shower pretty much every day at least once at least minimum.

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Speaker 1: And it was revealed that the time did not shower

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Speaker 1: every day. I think at that point she started to realize, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she was in the minority here, I'm the crazy one

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Speaker 1: and the rest of us were showering on the daily.

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Speaker 1: So we never quite found out how often showered, but

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Speaker 1: we do know it was not daily. Now, I will

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Speaker 1: say this, she did not stink. It was not a

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Speaker 1: situation when we were like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it makes sense, Yeah, no, of course not.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I think I can recall a pleasant aroma. Yes,

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Speaker 2: she smelled clean and perfume.

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Speaker 1: Or whatever exactly it would you know if she had

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Speaker 1: not revealed herself in that moment, I never know. I

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Speaker 1: would have never known. But it bring to mind for

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Speaker 1: us this, you know, especially you know, being a black

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Speaker 1: man living in America. Sure, I've been learning a lot

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years about other people and

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Speaker 1: other cultures living in America and how often they shower.

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Speaker 1: So let's start here. All right, I'm sweating bullets, three

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Speaker 1: boys in a room. How often are we showering? Many?

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Speaker 2: I'm showering at least once a day, so like most days,

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Speaker 2: it's just the one time morning or night morning, like definitely,

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Speaker 2: not sometimes at night, but like not before bed. Like

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Speaker 2: it's not like I need a shower to get into bed.

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Speaker 1: Start your day. You're showering, Yeah, when are you showering

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Speaker 1: twice a day?

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Speaker 2: Twice a day?

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: I mean it'll be like, all right, shower in the

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Speaker 2: morning anyway. But then let's say I go out, if

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Speaker 2: I biked here, for example, biked back, worked up a sweat,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to shower right when I get home,

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Speaker 2: but like later on, I'll feel kind of like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, crunchy, yeah, and I'll just be like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I just want to clean slate before I do the

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Speaker 2: rest of the day, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's like you said, it's not right before

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Speaker 1: you go into bed, but it's just like, oh, i've

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Speaker 1: been you worked out or something. Yep. You just like

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Speaker 1: your normal state to be kind of clean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like more comfortable to feel fresh and clean.

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Speaker 2: And if I don't feel like that, I'll shower. Okay, No,

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty similar. Definitely, at least once a day in

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Speaker 2: the morning, that's the default.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then it's very similar to Manny. It's like, especially

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Speaker 4: if I go out, especially during the summer, warm months,

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Speaker 4: and I come back nice refresh, whether it's kind of

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Speaker 4: right when I get back or later more like you know,

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Speaker 4: eight nine before I start winding down for the for

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Speaker 4: the evening. But but yeah, for me, it's like it's

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Speaker 4: just a nice way to start the day to actually

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Speaker 4: like get up and be like, all right, now I'm

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Speaker 4: ready to go. So it's it's kind of just like

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Speaker 4: having coffee or something.

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Speaker 1: It's like I want to do.

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Speaker 4: It's not like it's not like I wake up, I'm

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Speaker 4: worried I'm gonna be so dirty or something. But then

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Speaker 4: it's like then my hair is in better shape everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you just get a lot better anyway. And and just

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Speaker 4: the act of being in the shower I like not

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Speaker 4: just the end product of being clean. It's like, like

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Speaker 4: I like spending time in there.

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Speaker 1: That's my thing about it. I also enjoy being in

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Speaker 1: the shower. It's like you're sort of forced alone. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can't be on your phone for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I play a little music. Oh yeah, maybe sometimes

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Speaker 1: I listen to a little podcast.

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Speaker 2: And as we know from a previous episode, you guys

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Speaker 2: love hanging out in the bathroom. If I can extend

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Speaker 2: my time in there, I'll take any chance, like a.

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Speaker 1: Nice little shower. Yeah, I'm I'm at least once a day,

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Speaker 1: sometimes two morning shower for sure. Yeah, you know, ideal situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting up, I'm working out, I'm showering. You have

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Speaker 1: to work out start my day, and then when I

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Speaker 1: get home at night, I'll shower before I go to bed.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of people not showering, so so, there is this

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Speaker 1: journalist who was at The Atlantic, James Hamblin, who in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen wrote about his decision to stop showering.

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Speaker 2: Every day, no period, period. Oh my god, that's not

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Speaker 2: why he's no longer in the Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: We read what you just wrote. It just smells, he wrote,

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Speaker 1: You know, he ended up. That was an article in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. In twenty twenty, he had a book come

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Speaker 1: out called Clean, in which he was still not showering.

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Speaker 1: He talks about how it was a gradual thing, right,

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Speaker 1: He didn't wake up one day and go from showering

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Speaker 1: to not showering. He slowly tapered his way off of it.

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Speaker 5: Your body sort of gets into more of an equilibrium

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Speaker 5: when you stop doing these things. And I don't recommend

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Speaker 5: that anyone do it cold turkey. You know, we've all

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Speaker 5: when I was in the same habit as everyone are

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Speaker 5: doing a lot of showering and a lot of application

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Speaker 5: of So if I went a day without it and

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Speaker 5: a day without theodorant, I mean I knew it. I

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Speaker 5: smelled terrible, I looked greasy. I felt bad. Over Over time, though,

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Speaker 5: if you gradually do less and less, your body gets

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Speaker 5: used to it. It's sort of like training for a marathon.

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Speaker 1: He does not shower. He hasn't showered now. That was

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Oh so this isn't really, this is truly I have

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Speaker 2: not showered in years.

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Speaker 1: I thought, he has not showered in years. Look, he

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Speaker 1: may you know, I don't. I don't know the man,

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Speaker 1: he may have snuck a shower in here there, you know,

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Speaker 1: he've rolled around in some mud, maybe maybe snuck a

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Speaker 1: rinse or shower in. But yeah, he's no longer showering regularly.

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Speaker 1: He does not use soap outside of his hands, and

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Speaker 1: he does not wear yodurant yo.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about why, okay, because that's disgusting.

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Speaker 2: So no offense to people.

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Speaker 1: Yhowers, but no offense to our listeners who haven't showered

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Speaker 1: in ten years. We still want you to keep coming

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Speaker 1: back to it.

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Speaker 2: On the developed country, there's no excuse.

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 2: What's his reason?

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Speaker 1: So he talked about in his book in the article

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Speaker 1: that he started to calculate how much time we spend

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Speaker 1: in our lives showering. Here we go with the time.

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Speaker 2: Yep, this is the same thing as sitting standing and peeing.

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Speaker 1: Yeap.

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Speaker 2: What's the rush, guys?

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Speaker 1: And he said, based on his calculations, we spend two

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Speaker 1: full years of our lives washing ourselves. And to him,

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Speaker 1: it just he doesn't enjoy the act the showering obviously

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Speaker 1: like we do. And he was just like, why are

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Speaker 1: we doing this? He thought, you know, it's not medically

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Speaker 1: necessary for us to shower. We're just doing it because

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Speaker 1: that's what we do as a society. And he was curious.

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Speaker 1: If he just slowly stopped doing it, his body naturally

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Speaker 1: adjusted and it wouldn't be necessary to do it anymore.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why we have to pretend that it's

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Speaker 2: about like the amount of time at the end of

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Speaker 2: your life, you spent two years, how many how many

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Speaker 2: years you spend watching TV, or like how many years

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Speaker 2: you spend commuting to work. It's a bad way to

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Speaker 2: think about things. What it's like, what are you doing

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Speaker 2: with those two years?

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Speaker 1: That's so so great, that's so much more fun than thanhower.

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Speaker 2: We spend two years being you know, like toddlers, Like

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Speaker 2: we're not doing like it's not that long. It's not

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Speaker 2: that much time to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, why don't kids start working in the In the

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Speaker 4: minds again, it's about wasting time doing other stuff. It's

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Speaker 4: like having fun playing factory, do something productive for one.

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Speaker 2: I don't like this at all. So what I hear

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Speaker 2: about like how much time it saves? I kind of

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Speaker 2: roll my eyes. But I am curious about like some

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Speaker 2: of his other reasonings that might have more weight to them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, he talks a lot about it not

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Speaker 1: being you know, medically necessary. There have been a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversations about actually we shower too often nowadays, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I haven't done any research yet.

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Speaker 2: And I could easily believe that we might be showering

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Speaker 2: too often. I remember during COVID when when we learned

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Speaker 2: that we were putting hand sanitizer on too often and

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Speaker 2: how that actually harmed our hands over time.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, yeah, that's what I was curious about, Like

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Speaker 4: how much it dries out skin by just doing the

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Speaker 4: water and rints and all that with the soap, like

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Speaker 4: ye versus I'm assuming I'm imagining by not showering, eventually,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna your skin's gonna build up some more tolerance

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Speaker 4: maybe or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah some stink ye a nice good sting.

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Speaker 1: And I think another aspect of this that we haven't

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Speaker 1: really talked about yet is how do we shower right?

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Speaker 1: It's not only how often, what are we doing once

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Speaker 1: we're in there right by play? So there was another

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Speaker 1: moment in culture in twenty nineteen where a user this

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Speaker 1: this tweet is now deleted, okay, put out a poll

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Speaker 1: asking when you go and shower, do you wash your legs.

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Speaker 1: You all remember this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I remember this. I thought it was from before twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Now it's twenty nineteen, and it was revealed through that

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Speaker 1: pole and subsequent conversation that a lot of white women

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Speaker 1: did not wash your legs when they shower.

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Speaker 2: So if you do, you have an up opinion.

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Speaker 6: I don't wash my legs in the shower. Do you

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Speaker 6: wash your legs in the shower?

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Speaker 7: We're bacta Taylor Swift who was just telling me about

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Speaker 7: washing her legs in the shower.

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Speaker 6: I couldn't hear you. Did you say you do wash

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Speaker 6: them or you don't? I do?

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Speaker 7: Because when you shave your legs, isn't that shaving cream

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Speaker 7: is like soap?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean you don't clean their legs well, but

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Speaker 7: you're sticking a shower regardless, So I mean it's not

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Speaker 7: like it's not getting clean.

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Speaker 2: I mean you only got to do washing your legs,

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Speaker 2: meaning like going through the effort of actually scrubbing your legs.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yes, you know you're go in the shower,

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Speaker 1: you're soaping up, whether you're using you know, this is

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Speaker 1: another thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, we need to get into there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of right there's it gonna be a long This

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Speaker 4: might be a three parts.

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Speaker 1: As you know, as a black band growing up in

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Speaker 1: this country and we where I was growing up, we

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Speaker 1: had something called the washrag. I know it maybe foreign

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Speaker 1: to some of our listeners, but a washrag is exactly

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Speaker 1: what it sounds like. It is a rag that you

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Speaker 1: would put some soap on and then use the rag

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Speaker 1: to clean your body. You know, you would change out

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Speaker 1: the washwrag every couple of days because it really, you know,

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Speaker 1: it starts to get a little stink to it if

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Speaker 1: you don't. But you're using something Some people use loofahs. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know there's an African uh ba bathing that whatever

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Speaker 1: you call it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as it has some coarse materials that

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Speaker 2: kind of exfoliates.

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Speaker 1: But and you know, I learned this from an early

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Speaker 1: age from sleepovers at some of my friends' houses who

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Speaker 1: happened to be white. We don't want to make any assumptions.

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Speaker 1: When they would give me, uh, okay, I'm gonna go shower.

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Speaker 1: Here's your child, I said, okay, thank you, I need

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Speaker 1: that to dry off. Where's the washrag? And they're like,

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Speaker 1: wash rag? What is that? You know? Like so a

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Speaker 1: lot of white people don't use washrags. They just use

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Speaker 1: their hand to clean everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like finding out that my white

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Speaker 2: friends used to talk back to their mom.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I didn't know that was an option.

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Speaker 2: What kind of that kind of alien world?

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Speaker 1: So we say all that to uh bring us to Noah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no do you Yeah, if you're just listening, you're not

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Speaker 1: watching it on Instagram? Do you use a washrag?

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Speaker 7: So?

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Speaker 4: I use now, but growing up I actually did use washrags,

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Speaker 4: like we always did have.

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Speaker 2: A small one in there. Yeah, I would use that's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I never really thought to be I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't want to assume all did, just

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Speaker 1: the ones I was interacting with.

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Speaker 2: Just to circle back a little bit, I remember that

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Speaker 2: discourse online end up being surprised at the amount of

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Speaker 2: people who didn't wash their legs or would say something

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Speaker 2: along the lines of like, I'm washing my you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of the problem areas, and then the soap is

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Speaker 2: going to run it down. I remember, Yeah, and like,

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Speaker 2: I guess clean my legs on the way down to

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Speaker 2: the drain. Yes, which just doesn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: What you brought up a really good point when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about this. I don't know if you remember this, Manny.

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Speaker 2: No, I fried my brain, you said, since then.

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Speaker 1: I think about it once a week now. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things. Well you were like, how actually

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Speaker 1: every time I washed my legs I think about this.

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Speaker 1: You're like, how long do you think this takes?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 1: It takes less than thirty seconds still, wipe your legs.

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Speaker 2: Less than that is we're acknowledging soaps running down your legs.

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Speaker 2: You need to run, you need to rinse that off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just that it doesn't take much the same amount.

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Speaker 2: Of time to make sure there's not still bubbles all

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Speaker 2: over you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, as to actually watch it and not take not

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Speaker 1: It doesn't add that much time to your shower.

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Speaker 2: Maybe twenty seconds total. Yeah, how long are your showers?

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Speaker 1: By the way, Oh that's a really good question.

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Speaker 2: So let's say the primary main shower in the morning.

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Speaker 1: My my normal no rush shower about ten minutes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm about that. I think the same.

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Speaker 2: There are instances where like, maybe it's a night in

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Speaker 2: I've got nothing going on, you know, I'll just be

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Speaker 2: kind of day dreaming in there.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely, if no one else is around, so

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Speaker 4: I know no one's like a way, it's about.

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Speaker 1: The something like I can definitely take long.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say my standard's probably eight to twelve, yes,

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Speaker 4: and then yeah, if it's a nice one I'm chilling,

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Speaker 4: then close to twenty probably, yeah, if I'm just going

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Speaker 4: to take our time.

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Speaker 2: Really, I'm the follower of the method of like, you know,

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Speaker 2: really focusing on the quote unquote problem areas right, like

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Speaker 2: your your pits, your crotch, whatever, but your butt, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then doing a much lighter version of that for

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Speaker 2: the rest.

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Speaker 1: Of your boxactly. Yeah, you start with those.

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Speaker 2: You know, five to ten minutes this thing. Maybe you

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Speaker 2: do a second round. I guess that's what I do,

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But like you got it once yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think like, you know, if you only did one

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Speaker 2: round in there, which sometimes I'm late or whatever, I

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Speaker 2: think you're you're a perfectly hygienic person. Oh yeah, So

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Speaker 2: if it's only taking five minutes in there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I could do. If you said, oh yeah, hey

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Speaker 1: you only got five minutes to shower, I could do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could do it.

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Speaker 2: It could be pretty thorough.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: But maybe that's not exactly what this episode is about.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I did a derail.

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Speaker 1: No, No, it was good. Well, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of that conversation ended up being too which also came

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Speaker 1: to mind from me, which is like the sort of

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Speaker 1: like acceptability politics of like what's allowed in certain cultures

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Speaker 1: versus what is not allowed, So like black culture is

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Speaker 1: very important to always be presenting yourself in the best light,

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Speaker 1: which is like your clothes need to be iron right,

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Speaker 1: they need to be clean. You can't go outside if

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Speaker 1: you stink, right, Like, it's it's a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: some of this is like respectability politics, but it's like

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Speaker 1: your parents were always like, you know, when people see you,

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Speaker 1: they're not just judging you, they're judging all black people

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Speaker 1: exactly based on how you are presenting our family.

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Speaker 2: And then also.

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Speaker 1: Yes, black people whereas who's dak Shepherd and his who's

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Speaker 1: his wife? Oh yeah, Kristen Bell. They came out, and

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Speaker 1: the thing I love about these stories is that the

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Speaker 1: people just kind of volunteer this information. They said, they

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Speaker 1: only washed your kids when they start to stink, so

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Speaker 1: you know, like once a weaker some kids, I forgot

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: We had to start saying like, hey, when's the last

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Speaker 2: time you bathe them? Yeah, forget sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Five six days goes along.

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Speaker 8: I mean they don't smell, so so you know it's

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Speaker 8: hard people.

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Speaker 1: Well they do.

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Speaker 6: I'm a big thing of waiting for the stake.

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Speaker 4: With that's that's biology's way of letting you know you

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Speaker 4: need to clean it up.

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Speaker 1: And it became a whole thing, right, It's like, so

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Speaker 1: I think, like, I think part of this too is

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Speaker 1: a cultural thing of like expectations around what is acceptable

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Speaker 1: versus what is not acceptable. And I'm not even saying

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Speaker 1: that like the black point of view here is correct, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't believe in respectability politics, but that on

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Speaker 1: the pod. Yeah, so I'm not saying like showering every

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Speaker 1: day like gives us, you know, a better chance of

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Speaker 1: getting equal, right, But I think it is part of

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Speaker 1: the equation of you know, not only what we're doing

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Speaker 1: in our homes, but also how comfortable we feel sharing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like there there's probably lots of black people who aren't

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Speaker 1: still doing the things that they were taught as kids.

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Speaker 1: But they're not going to go on the internet say

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Speaker 1: oh yes, I also don't wash my legs and I

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Speaker 1: shower you know, once every two weeks, and you know,

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Speaker 1: to make it clear, James talks about this a bit

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Speaker 1: and his article in this book about like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: a white guy, great education, Like I have certain advantages

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Speaker 1: that allows for me to go on this journey of him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: without it like completely ruining my status. Okay, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: take a quick break, and when we get back, we're

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Speaker 1: going to hear about a king that only took two

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Speaker 1: baths in his entire life, and hear from a dermatologist

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Speaker 1: about how often we should really be showering. All Right,

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Speaker 1: we're back.

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Speaker 2: I'm Manny, I'm Noah.

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Speaker 1: This is Devin. All Right, fellas, it's been a few

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Speaker 1: weeks since we last chatted about how often we should

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Speaker 1: be bathing. So in that time I've spoken to a

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Speaker 1: dermatologist who does have an answer. But before we get there,

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Speaker 1: I want to take a brief detour and figure out

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Speaker 1: how we got to where we are today in terms

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Speaker 1: of showering. So we're going to do a little abbreviated

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Speaker 1: history of bathing. Okay, So I called up someone who

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Speaker 1: read a whole book on it.

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Speaker 9: My name is Catherine Astenberg, and I wrote a book

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Speaker 9: called The Dirt Unclean and unsanitized history.

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Speaker 1: So Catherine came out with the idea for the book

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Speaker 1: after a trip to the museum.

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Speaker 9: This book first came to me in a museum in

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Speaker 9: Toronto where I live, which is called the Royal Ontario Museum.

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Speaker 9: And there was one day I was looking at a

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Speaker 9: picture of a sort of seventeenth century crowd scene somewhere

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Speaker 9: in Europe, and the caption underneath had said the rich

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Speaker 9: in this picture, the aristocrats are dirtier than the peasants.

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Speaker 9: You know, press a button and learn more, which I

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Speaker 9: wasn't doing all that often than those years. But I

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Speaker 9: pressed a button because that was so counterintuitive in a way.

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Speaker 1: So why was this the case? Well, in the fourteenth

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Speaker 1: century we had this little thing called the Black Death,

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Speaker 1: which killed between forty and sixty percent of Europeans depending

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Speaker 1: on which historian you trust. In this flag was the

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Speaker 1: worst pandemic ever and the.

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Speaker 9: French king consulted the medical doctors at the Sorbonne and

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Speaker 9: they said what caused it? And they said, all you know,

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Speaker 9: planets were aligning in bad ways.

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Speaker 1: So the king at the time wanted to know how

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Speaker 1: to prevent it.

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Speaker 9: The people most at risk were fat, very emotional and

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Speaker 9: they took warm baths. What was wrong with taking warm baths?

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Speaker 9: It opened your pores and the disease entered through the port.

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Speaker 9: This is obviously not the case, but as a result,

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Speaker 9: a French historian called Jules Michele said that what followed

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Speaker 9: were a thousand years without a bath. Wasn't really a thousand,

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Speaker 9: It was more like five hundred, but it was a

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Speaker 9: considerable number of years.

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Speaker 1: So what happens next? They're rich people of European society

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Speaker 1: avoid hot water like the plague. See what I did there?

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Speaker 2: Nice?

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Speaker 9: Those people never got in hot water, never washed anything

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Speaker 9: but their hands. King Louis the fourteenth of France, for example,

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Speaker 9: was a very athletic king. He did all kinds of sports.

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Speaker 9: Every day in his long life. He took two baths,

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Speaker 9: but every morning he washed his hands and maybe dribbled

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Speaker 9: a little water on his face, and that was the

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Speaker 9: extent of his hygiene because his body was the most

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Speaker 9: important body in France, so they had to keep it

438
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 9: away from disease.

439
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: So incredible. How much of like science back then was

440
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: just vibes based.

441
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I don't know, these guys are kind

442
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: of fat, and I don't know. They like warm water. Yeah,

443
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: all right, So we got King Louie to fourteenth taking

444
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: two baths. Right. At some point English scientists were like, actually, guys,

445
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: walm watar is good. It doesn't spread disease. It could

446
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: actually prevent it. So I was curious how we got

447
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: to today. We're bathing more regularly is the norm, and

448
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: you know, we use a little thing called soap.

449
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 9: What really made bathing and showering work was advertising. Unfortunately,

450
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 9: it was a huge success. We had soap to wash

451
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 9: our clothes and wash our floors. We didn't have what

452
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 9: was called in the nineteenth century toilet soap, soap to

453
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 9: wash our body. And so even when people got the idea, oh,

454
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 9: let's get into warm water, there's something kind of good

455
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 9: about that, they did that without soap. The soap that

456
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 9: you'd wash your floor and your clothes with was really

457
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 9: harsh and it really melted very quickly. But various chemical

458
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 9: processes were discovered and put into production by the big

459
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 9: soap makers like Procter and Gamble and palmolive, and transportation

460
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 9: made it easier to get so all of a sudden,

461
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 9: soap toilet soap was born kind of in the second

462
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 9: half of the nineteenth century advertising was born. They brought

463
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 9: each other up together. And because all toilet soap was

464
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 9: pretty much the same as every other kind of toilet soap,

465
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 9: they needed advertising to say that ivory soap was better

466
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 9: than pal molive soap, for example. They invented all kinds

467
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 9: of gimmicks and use of celebrities and games and coupons

468
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 9: and stuff that you could collect.

469
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: Soap brought us some of our first branded content. Sure

470
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: you think got the idea of a soap opera?

471
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: Oh?

472
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: The first radio dramas were sponsored by soap companies.

473
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: That's why it's called that. That's why it's called what

474
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: Great trivia.

475
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 4: Good morning radio listeners, Clara Lunde, I'm brought to you

476
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 4: by the makers of super.

477
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 9: Thubble, and they also advertising. This is invented kind of

478
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 9: bad things which are known in the advertising trade is

479
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 9: whisper copy, which was successfully designed to make you feel

480
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 9: really worried. Are you offending because you haven't taken a

481
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 9: bath today or a shower? And offending was one of

482
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 9: their scary words, and they would say, you will never

483
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 9: know if you're offending.

484
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 8: After comparing the acts of daily baths with different soaps,

485
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 8: lay doctors made this amazing statement. Actually, you're clinger. It's

486
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 8: safer from the old when you bathe daily with Life

487
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 8: Boy and when you bathe with any other leading soap.

488
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: The point of the ad is so that you don't

489
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 2: offend someone else with your smell. Yes, well that's why

490
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: soap was new. I guess I've been offending people with

491
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: my smell the whole time.

492
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was what they were saying. They're saying, Hey,

493
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't move the needle for me. All of you've been thinking,

494
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: we got this new thing to fix that, and everyone

495
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: is going to start using it, so you want to

496
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: be left behind and be the one guy who still stinks.

497
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: I see. It's pretty convincing to me. Yeah, I mean,

498
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: you know, if it's an easy choice.

499
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: If you see everyone around around you start using it.

500
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: It's like it's also.

501
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: Wild to think about how old these some of these

502
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: companies are After and Gramble all the way.

503
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: Back then been around for a bit.

504
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 2: Wow.

505
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: All right, So the advertising business did its big thing.

506
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: But Catherine called out in her book, not everyone bought

507
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: into this, so you know, many maybe wouldn't back in

508
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: the day. Some of us, some of us are freethinkers

509
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: and you know who else were free thinkers, our European

510
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters.

511
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 9: The European countries are extremely different in terms of hygiene.

512
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 9: It was always kind of a trade off between the historians.

513
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 9: I was reading what is the Dirtiest Country in Europe

514
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 9: and it was kind of a contest between France and Spain.

515
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 9: French people would take a shower four days a week,

516
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 9: did not think it was necessary to change their underwear

517
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 9: every day, versus the North American much closer to once

518
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 9: a day.

519
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: It's funny. I've seen some tiktoks recently of young people

520
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: going to Paris for the first time, and the one

521
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: thing that they constantly comment on is like, oh, a

522
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: lot of these people in France are not wearing the odorant.

523
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, people still say that about France. It's amazing how

524
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 9: I'm regenerate they are. But there's a wonderful book by

525
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 9: a guy, a historian by I think his name is

526
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 9: Alan Corbin R b I N. He's French, and about

527
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 9: the French love of strong smells, the way they hang

528
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 9: their meat, their wine, their smelly wonderful cheese, and their bodies.

529
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 9: And it's a kind of somadic atmosphere in which they

530
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 9: live and which they're not just tolerant of it, they

531
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 9: they like it, they seek it out. Well, this famous

532
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 9: story about Napoleon and Josephine that he was on a

533
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 9: military campaign and he wrote to Josephine, I will arrive

534
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 9: in Paris, you know, in two nights or on Friday

535
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 9: or something like that, Nu levpa, do not wash. This

536
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 9: was part of sexual pleasure for a lot of people.

537
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: That's nasty.

538
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: That is, you know, don't think shame many, all right,

539
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: that's some people are.

540
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 2: Napoleon cook, I can I can imagine if you have

541
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: that kink, be like hoping that they don't wash, being like, hey,

542
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: don't take a shower. He's like, hey, I'm on my

543
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: way back.

544
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: Hey, I know you've been washing out while being gone.

545
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: That ends today. Put a stop to it.

546
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: And this will circle back to an idea that we

547
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: were talking about in the intro. But this idea of

548
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: clonliness was also used to discriminate against minority groups in

549
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: the US.

550
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 9: Americans were just as dirty as Europeans until the Civil War.

551
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: So during the Civil War, things like hygiene and hospital

552
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: conditions became a much bigger focus in the US to

553
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: help improve the health of the troops.

554
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 9: So by the time all these immigrants arrived on the shores,

555
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 9: arrived at Ellis Island from the south and the east

556
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 9: of Europe, it was felt one way to make them

557
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 9: be Americans is to teach them about bathing and about

558
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 9: seeing themselves.

559
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 6: So it was a.

560
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 9: Huge teaching campaign. You can't be American unless you're clean.

561
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 9: And it had also been used for the blacks after

562
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 9: the Civil War in reconstruction.

563
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: So going back to the side of respectability politics. During Reconstruction,

564
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: we had people like Booker T. Washington who were promoting

565
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: this idea of cleanliness for black.

566
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 9: People, and he wrote a book in which he talked

567
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 9: about what he called the Gospel of the toothbrush. She said,

568
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 9: once you give a person a toothbrush and they start

569
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 9: to use it, they're on their way to being a

570
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 9: full American citizen.

571
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: So there we go. We got our idea of respectability politics.

572
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: Back to Booker T. So early, get your toothbrush. That's

573
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: white people are going to start being nice to us

574
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: if we brush our teeth. Didn't work.

575
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 2: They had to do some of the strategies after that one.

576
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: Now that we've gotten a little history lesson We're going

577
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, and when we get back,

578
00:30:48,880 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: we're going to have all our baiting questions answered by dermatologists.

579
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: All right, we're back in as promise. I spoke with

580
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: a dermatologist.

581
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 6: My name is Lisa Akintillo.

582
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 7: I'm a Boort certified dermatologist and cosmetic dermatologic surgeon correctly

583
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 7: at NYU in New York.

584
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: And, like Noah likes to say, I want to waste

585
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: no time and get right into it. First question, let's

586
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: get right to it. How often do you shower?

587
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 6: I personally showered twice today.

588
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 7: Some people may find that extreme, but I've done it

589
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 7: for years, just because the night shower is part of

590
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 7: my kind of decompression from the day.

591
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 6: My night routine.

592
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, the wine down, so that's just my personal preference.

593
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 7: But yeah, twice a day, once if I'm gonna bind,

594
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 7: but usually it's twice.

595
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: I'm never someone who showers like right before bed. But

596
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: I'm coming around to the idea that like it makes

597
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: sense in the sense of keeping your bed a sacred,

598
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: clean place.

599
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: Yes, people should listen back to our episode about whether

600
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: or not it's okay to wear your outside clothes on

601
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: your bed. That's right, Well, we touched on us a

602
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: little bit, but I like my bed clean, all right,

603
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: so I trusted her already. Right, twice a day. This

604
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: woman knows what she's talking about. But just because doctor

605
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: Akintailo showers twice a day doesn't necessarily mean we should showering.

606
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: There is the Okay, I do this for the scientific

607
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: reasons of like keeping my body clean, and then there's

608
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: the routine, and there's the cultural aspects of it. All right, scientifically,

609
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: how often should we really be showering for, you know,

610
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: for our health?

611
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 7: That's a good question. How often should we be showering scientifically?

612
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 7: Because I, to my knowledge, has not been any formal

613
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 7: studies saying, oh, this is the evidence based number of

614
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 7: times you should shower in a day. I would say,

615
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 7: I tell my patients they should shower once a day.

616
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 7: That probably varies depending on who you talk too. But

617
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 7: I personally believe you're out in the world, if you

618
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 7: live in a place like New York, you're exposed to

619
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 7: the elements, you're exposed to the pollution. It's good to

620
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 7: at least once a day kind of rinse that off

621
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 7: of you. And then also you provide hydration back into

622
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 7: the skin which does tend to get fairly dry throughout

623
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 7: the day. And then there is the mental health part

624
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 7: of it too. Like I was alluding to earlier, it

625
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 7: is like a nice few minutes where it's just you.

626
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 7: You get to focus on taking care of yourself. But again,

627
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 7: some people might say less than that. There are some

628
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 7: other factors at play with how often I recommend people shower.

629
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 7: Maybe if somebody has eggs, more of that dry, itchy,

630
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 7: flaky skin, they should not shower too often. But you're

631
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 7: so right in bringing up the cultural part, because there's

632
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 7: a huge voice in my head at least that say, well,

633
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 7: you can't shower. You can't not shower every day. So

634
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 7: that's my take on it.

635
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: Wow, so once today, Yeah, we should basically be dermatologists.

636
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: I love to hear that a dermatologist recommends you shower

637
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: once a day, and I think a lot of people

638
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: should that to heart.

639
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: Obviously, there's you know, we say for every single person

640
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: in the world, there maybe someone with some condition that

641
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: we're not mentioning here. But yeah, that's that's our general

642
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: recommendation to most of our clients. So the weather is

643
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: actually cooling down in New York, Yeah, right, when we

644
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: started this, it was like a little bit hotter, So

645
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: I was curious how much of this recommendation is based

646
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: on just like where you're living, right, Like I feel

647
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: like I'm showering a little bit less now than i

648
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: was when it was a little hotter. And also like

649
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: someone's activity level does that determine how often they should

650
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: be shower.

651
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 7: If you're feeling really hot and sweaty and sticky, maybe

652
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 7: you either live in a warm place year round or

653
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 7: at summertime.

654
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 6: That can be helpful just to get all the sweat off.

655
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 7: And for that reason too, I do recommend patients who

656
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 7: exercise a lot to also at least do a quick

657
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 7: rint or spray, you know, certain areas with hypochlorous acid

658
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 7: or some kind of cleansing spray. It's because that sweat

659
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 7: staying all the skin for a prolonged amount of time

660
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 7: can lead to issues down the line like acne, little

661
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 7: bits of eczema, or dry, itchy skin.

662
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: And this made me a dumb question, but like on

663
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: a molecular level, like what makes us smell?

664
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's the cause of the body odor?

665
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: Right?

666
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, So it's interesting sweat in and of itself does

667
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 7: not have an odor. Our sweat glands produce this fluid,

668
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 7: these africrine and acrine glands and the skin. But what

669
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 7: causes the smell is bacteria that is on the skin.

670
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 7: So it is interesting to think about. But we all

671
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 7: have bacteria living on our skin, mites and other things too.

672
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 7: They're all in symbiosis with us. But the bacteria, if

673
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 7: the sweat is on the skin for a prolonged amount

674
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 7: of time, they like it. They kind of gravitate towards it,

675
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: and as they eat it and digest it, that process

676
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 7: produces an odor that is oftentimes unpleasant for either one

677
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 7: self or people around someone to smell. But sweat in

678
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 7: and of itself is not a problem.

679
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: It's yea, it attracts.

680
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: I guess I always assumed like you get sweaty and

681
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: then your arm pits start to emit an odor. Yeah,

682
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: I smell when I'm on the train and someone smells bad,

683
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: I thought that's essentially what was happening.

684
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

685
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: This is fascinating though.

686
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: Yes, the bacteria eating up that sweat yummy, yummy, yummy,

687
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: So I want it. Doctor, I can tell Hell to

688
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: walk me through the perfect shower routine. Let's start with

689
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: what soap we should be using.

690
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 7: So in broad strokes, for most people, I recommend just

691
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 7: the plain, gentle hydrating cleanser. If someone is more prone

692
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 7: to sensitive skin, I would probably shy away from the

693
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 7: fragrance cleansers because that can be pretty irritating to the skin. Now,

694
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 7: dial or hibocleans is another one, or bends of peroxide.

695
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 7: They're all the antibacterial washes and soaps. Those can be

696
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 7: helpful for certain reasons. Right somebody has a lot of

697
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 7: body owner Sometimes we like the antibacterial soap to decrease

698
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 7: the amount of bacteria on the skin. If somebody has

699
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 7: a particular condition where we're trying to decrease again that bacteria,

700
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 7: maybe acne and those are you, and then we do

701
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 7: recommend those special antibacterial soaps. But for most people, for

702
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 7: most of the population, most of the time, just as

703
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 7: hydrating gentle cleanser as all that's needed.

704
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: She says, no, no need to splurge on an expensive soap.

705
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: And we were talking about bar or liquid. She said,

706
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: both are great. More of a bar guy. You Dove, Yeah.

707
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 4: I think typically I'll buy a Dove, but I'll kind

708
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: of if something's on sale, I'll try it.

709
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: But well, the fun fact is dove is not technically

710
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: a hope. Excuse me explain dove is not technically a sope.

711
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: What is it?

712
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: It's you know, we don't need to get into the

713
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: weeds here, but it doesn't have certain properties, which is

714
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: why dove is considered to be more moisturizing, because soap

715
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: strip your body of more things. Oh so people use

716
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: dove because it's gentler on your skin.

717
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: That makes sense, because yeah, you do hear about people

718
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 4: using too much soap. She was alluding to this earlier too,

719
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 4: just like and then yoga irritated and dry skin doing

720
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 4: too much cleaning.

721
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: So now you know, we had a good time with dove,

722
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: but I'm about to ruin your lives.

723
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: Oh god.

724
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 7: I asked her how long we should be showering, So

725
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 7: showers actually should be on the shorter end, which may

726
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 7: be breaking the hearts of all your oul because we

727
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 7: all love our long you know, hot showers that feel

728
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 7: so good and you know messages the back, et cetera.

729
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 7: But really, showers should be no more than five minutes,

730
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 7: and probably cools with the three minutes. So I tell

731
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 7: my patients, if you're listening to music, it should be

732
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 7: about a song. Those songs these days are about three

733
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 7: and a half minutes. Yeah, there should be about that long.

734
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 7: They should be lukewarm as well, not hot.

735
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

736
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 7: Now, I myself am guilty of a hot shower now

737
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 7: and again, especially in the winter, just because it's so

738
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 7: cool outside. But that hot water strips a lot of

739
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 7: our natural oils off of the skin and actually makes

740
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 7: us dryer as a result. So the water doesn't have

741
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 7: to be cold by any means, but lukewarm is deespecially.

742
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing my own research. We're learning that she

743
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: takes basically less than one shower. Actually she just breaks it.

744
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: Up based on the amount of minutes.

745
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on my Maha ship. I don't trust that.

746
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: How hot, How hot are your guys showers? I don't

747
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: go super hot. I'm not scorching, but they're hot. I

748
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 2: like it hot, I mean not my room steamy.

749
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like.

750
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: But I've cauted it down. I think partly because of

751
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 4: the skin irritant factor.

752
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

753
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 4: I do have some dry skin. I don't want to

754
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 4: irritate it. And definitely, the hotter it gets, I noticed that.

755
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 4: I'm definitely not lukewarm, but and I have no idea

756
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 4: what temperature it is.

757
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm probably slightly hotter than I should be, but I'm not.

758
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: I used to be even hotter.

759
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to my I used like I feel

760
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: like in high school and college. I used to have

761
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 2: like hot showers just boiling your skin.

762
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. So uh, next up our controversial question about whether

763
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: or not you actually need a wash rag.

764
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: Oh hmmm, instead of just your hands, instead.

765
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: Of just yours.

766
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 7: I just had a conversation with a family member about

767
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 7: this last week. Because you are not wrong. This is

768
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 7: where there's a lot of cultural impact. Well disclosure, I

769
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 7: am of Nigerian descent, and I grew up using a

770
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 7: lufa or the African nets bonge, and it's just what

771
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 7: I'm used to. So when I discovered not everybody uses that,

772
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 7: I was kind of flabbergasted. So basically, the question that

773
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 7: you're getting to is manual physical exfoliation necessary as part

774
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 7: of a shower routine.

775
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 6: The technical answer is not really.

776
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 7: Sometimes, again, if someone has a particular skin condition, we

777
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 7: might not want too much physical abrasions to the skin,

778
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 7: as that can aggravate different rations people may have or

779
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 7: other issues. But again, I tend to think having some

780
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 7: kind of exfoliant is nice, whether it be manual or chemical,

781
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 7: just to help get rid of that top layer of skin,

782
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 7: because sometimes that is leading to a lot of issues

783
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 7: as well with dryness and skin irritation. And with just

784
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 7: gentle exfoliation with a Lufa and African nut sponge honestly,

785
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 7: hands can work some times too. That can help get

786
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 7: that top layer off and give a nice glow to

787
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 7: the skin, especially with moisturizer quite afterwards. So that's that's

788
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 7: kind of my answer for that. Again, I personally love

789
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 7: ALOFA and I cannot fathom not using it.

790
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 6: I travel with one.

791
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: Yes, it's the whole thing.

792
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: I accept the censer. She's back on our good side.

793
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: Yeah she knows what she's talking about.

794
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah she's pro So next up from my white girls,

795
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: do you actually need to wash your legs?

796
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 6: Let me tell you.

797
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 7: When I first heard of this debate or discussion a

798
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 7: few years ago, I was flabbergasted.

799
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: Yet again, takes no time.

800
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: That's the thing that drives me crazy. It's like it

801
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: takes you could do it very quickly.

802
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 6: It literally takes me ten seconds.

803
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 7: It's not so you can't tell my answer is yes,

804
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 7: we should be watching our whole body, including our legs.

805
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 7: Though soap dripping down is not enough. And when you

806
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 7: think about it, truly, especially in the summer, but I'd

807
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 7: say year round, our feet are exposed to a lot

808
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 7: of different things in the world. Right, even if you're

809
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 7: wearing socks and shoes and you have your trousers on,

810
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 7: you still might have a little bit of exposed ankle.

811
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 7: If it's the summer, you're wearing your sandals, your flip flops,

812
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 7: that all needs to be washed. Just think about you know,

813
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 7: if you don't wash your legs and feet, you get

814
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 7: into bed and all the stuff that's probably sitting in

815
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 7: your sheets, and it's just to be clean. I think

816
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 7: it's probably best to wash the feet and legs and

817
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 7: arms and as you mentioned, all the body parts. Truly,

818
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 7: it really doesn't take that much time. There are some

819
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 7: arguments people say where you really only need to focus

820
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 7: on the hot zones, which would be the groin, in the.

821
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 6: Armpit and the face.

822
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 7: I guess too, I understand where they're coming from, but

823
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 7: I just personally think, and I've seen in my patience

824
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 7: that people's skin looks much healthier if they do wash

825
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 7: and moisturize their whole body.

826
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: Just take the ten seconds and wash your legs.

827
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels nice under the knee.

828
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's a good spot right out. Yeah. All right,

829
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: that's it. That's all we got. Has this changed your

830
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: point of view of showering. I think this is one

831
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: that we all kind of agree on. This is a

832
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. Doesn't happen all the time with us, but

833
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: we were all doing at least once a day. I

834
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: guess we have some suggestions to our brethren who are

835
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: not doing this.

836
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to know that if I do have

837
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 2: a quicker shower, I'm not really risking anything. Or if

838
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: I don't use the rag sometimes it's probably fine. Yeah.

839
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 2: I feel the same.

840
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 4: It's nice that you know my quick rinses when they

841
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 4: happen are probably doing the job.

842
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep my long showers and do them

843
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: every day.

844
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: All right. Yeah that's all I had. Was there anything

845
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: else that you felt like you wanted to talk about

846
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: that you didn't get to touch on.

847
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 6: No, I think we talked about everything.

848
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 7: I you know, shower at least once a day, don't

849
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 7: spend a lot of money.

850
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 6: Moisture eyes for sure, keep them short, Yeah, keep them short.

851
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 8: Yeah.

852
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 7: The short thing is that's a big change for most people.

853
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 7: So when I bring up the song reference, that tends

854
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 7: to help at least you notice like, oh, it's in

855
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 7: like two three songs.

856
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 6: Maybe I should give out Yeah exactly.

857
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: He's he he heals, heals. After we recorded our conversation,

858
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: I was able to find out that James Hamlin has

859
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: reintroduced a daily rent to his routine, but he is

860
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: still not using any soap, shampoo, or theodor. Just just

861
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: some water. Okay. I want to hear about how often

862
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: y'all are showering? Do you wash your legs? Email us

863
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: at Manny Nolah Deevin at female dot com, or you

864
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: can call the number and show notes if you are

865
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: listening to us on Apple podcasts. I have a favorite

866
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: to ask. Go leave us a five star review, but

867
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: I also want you to tell us in a review

868
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: who your favorite No Such Thing member is. Be honest,

869
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: it's me. No Such Thing is a production of Kaleidoscope Content,

870
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: our executive producers for Kate Osborne and Mangeshkadur. The show

871
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: was created by Manny Fidel, Nor Friedman and me Devin

872
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: Joseph theme in credit song by Manny. Mixing for this

873
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: episode by Steve Bone. Our guests this week were doctor

874
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Speaker 1: Lisa Acintillo from ny You and Katherine Aschenberg, the author

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Speaker 1: of The Dirt on Clean, which we'll win to in

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Speaker 1: our show notes. All Right, we'll see you guys next week.

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Speaker 3: Those those those, those those such thing