1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: Fuck work. Hey hey, hey, hey, good introduction. I'm Robert Evans. 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: This is it could happen here. That was Chris Garrison's 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: also here, so is Sophie, who is changing her name 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: to Sophie. What is your new name, Sophie dot Com Arena, 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Sophie dot Com Arena. She's doing this to deal with 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: the trauma of the fact that Los Angeles just agreed 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: to change the name of the Chase Bank Arena to 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: the Crypto dot Com. Oh, Staples Center, Sorry, I'm getting 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: my arena's named after venal brands mixed uff. Speaking of 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: the pointlessness of work, there are people laboring right now 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: who worked at Staples so that Staples would have enough 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: money to name a place where people go do sports 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: after a place where people get fucking pencils um. And 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: now Staples has declined enough at it's just crypto dot com. 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Fucking Crypto dot com, look upon, look upon the worst 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency e formerly Mighty Staples in despair, fucking the Osmond 17 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 1: Dius of the office supply world. I don't know whatever 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: what are we talking about. We're going to no that 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: comes in the middle, but right now we're gonna go 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: to a place where they banned crypto mining for the 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: most part. So and that that places China, and I 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about specifically a lot of stuf us 23 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: been going on the Chinese Internet, what's been going on 24 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: in Chinese labor because so Garrison Garrison told me we're 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: doing an at work episode and I went, oh, yeah, 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: there's a there's you know, there's a version of this 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: in China. And then I realized that like a almost 28 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: no one has heard of lying flat and be it 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: rules and see that nobody really know in the US 30 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: knows what's going on in the Chinese Internet because it's 31 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: effectively siloed. And I mean, you know that there's there's 32 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: there's there's there's lots different ways to stile out. I 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: mean there's there's literally the Great Firewall. There's factors and 34 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: different languages, people use different apps, and you know, the 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: Internet has become this sort of like you know, it's 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a bunch of bubbles that don't interact 37 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: with each other. Yeah, the wald Garden thing, and it's 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, the sort of national level world garden stuff 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: is I think, in a lot of ways, way more 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: dangerous than the stuff you know that, like people complaining 41 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: about it was sucking Audie logical bubble and like that's bad. 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: But the fact that we have bubbles like this where 43 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: it's like you know, the like with with like actual 44 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: they basically borders but online yeah yeah, because they're enforced 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: by governments with force. Yeah. Yeah, the place it was 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: always going to go. Um, once we decided not to 47 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: be rad with the Internet, which everyone collectively decided in 48 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to say one thousand four, Yeah, do you 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: think do you think? Do do you think? Do you think? 50 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: That was nine eleven fault nine eleven played a role. 51 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: Nine eleven did play a role. Um, the dot com 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: boom played another role. Um, there were there there, There 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: were a number of factors. Um, but we can all 54 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: blame it on let's blame it on low tax and continue. 55 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: So anti work in China before we get into lying flat, 56 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: which is China's version of anti work, isn't the right 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: word because this actually started a few months before sort 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: of anti work blew up in the US. But before 59 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: we fully get into that. To understand what's going on here, 60 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: we need to talk about something called involution. And did 61 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: you say that again? Like evil involution in involution, Yeah, 62 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: so this this, this is this is originally this is 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: a very obscure anthropological term developed by my old nemesis, 64 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: Clifford Geertz, who's one of the most famous and most 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: important anthropologists in history, who also sucks ass and I 66 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: hate him. I thought your nemesis was Noam Chomsky. Yes, also, 67 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: but for different reasons. Should I cancel the hit sub 68 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: sub nemesis something I I have many I have many 69 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: nemesses that I have been on the side O God 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: here Jody Dean episode at some point. Now, thank you. 71 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate allies in my one person intellectual wars, although 72 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: this does seem to be a pretty boring intellectual war, yeah, 73 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: said most of them. Yeah yeah, but what what what 74 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: Gears was describing? Basically, so she doesn't feel work in Java? 75 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: And what are you describing? What what involution means? It's 76 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: the system where people keep working harder and harder for 77 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: there's no increase in output, and so that there's no 78 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: there's no rewards for working harder, and so you know, 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: in Java you'd have these plantations, right, and the plantations 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: would get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. But 81 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: because each new person was only like harvesting just enough 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: to feed themselves, you never actually got any productivity increases. 83 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: And so you know, yeah, there's no there's no output 84 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: increases and in not really the case in America in 85 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Yeah, and what's interesting, Well, okay, 86 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: So the reason I want to talk about this also 87 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: is because basically everyone who's been writing about this formation 88 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: news outlets has missed about half of the story of 89 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: how how this like incredibly obscure anthropological term that like 90 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: I don't like again, I was an anthropology major. I 91 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: don't think I ever ran into involution while like while 92 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: I was studying anthropology. Yeah, and no one has ever 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: heard of this, Like fucking everyone in China has like 94 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: like a treatise they can spout at you about this now. Um. Yeah, 95 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: and and you know, I want to talk a bit 96 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: about how to emerge. And part of this is because 97 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the last about two years, people will 98 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: be getting increasingly piste off at you know, just the 99 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: sort of incredibly competitive nature of Chinese society and particularly work. 100 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of this is because everyone's 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: working what's what's called which is nine am to nine 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: PM six days a week. And she actually didn't make 103 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: this good. When I say everyone, that's like an average schedule. 104 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: The schedules get a lot worse than that. But in 105 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: the nine six is the one that sort of gets 106 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: the attention because a lot of people work it, especially 107 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: the tech industry. This is you know, we do, but 108 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, everyone focused on the tech industry, everyone ignores 109 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of myrket workers who also do this and worse. 110 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: And you know, there's just a normal societal pressure to 111 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: sort of keep moving and keep competing and keep working. 112 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: And simultaneously, you know, people in China today are working 113 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: like basically as hard as anyone's worked in China since 114 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: like people would literally collapse and missastion in the fields 115 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: and the great leap forward, Like that's lots of people 116 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: are working this hard. And but but instead of you know, 117 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: getting rewards for this, Chinese growth rates have been collapsing 118 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: for a decade. And yeah, this is you know, this 119 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: is this is the thing that you get. In the 120 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: U s too, was like, well, okay, people were like, well, 121 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: if you work out to get into the middle class, 122 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: but then you know everyone's working nine six. No one's 123 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: getting into the widdle class, the like China has incredibly 124 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: low rates of social ability, and you know it into 125 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: this comes involution. But the weird part of what's happening 126 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: year is that involution doesn't enter the Chinese discourse through 127 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: like people complaining about work. It's it's actually a product 128 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: of a bunch of middle class people complaining about Chinese 129 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: industrial policy. And this is the hardest story that nobody 130 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: really talks about, even though I think it's it's really 131 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: interesting because again like this, you know, anti anti work 132 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: in the U s RS and the left right involution, 133 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: which is the thing that's going to bring about sort 134 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: of the Chinese version of anti work is the right 135 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: way is originally a right wing discourse, um and and 136 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: and it's interesting, it's it's it's a right wing, very 137 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: nationalist discourse that gets you know, the right wing part 138 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: of it gets essentially expunged and it gets pulled left. 139 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: So originally, you know, China is I don't have a 140 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: more elegant way of saying this than China's leaders, and 141 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: more online than ours, like significantly more like they Actually 142 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: that's hard, that's hard to bash it. It's people people 143 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: like like local government offices right have like they have 144 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: these like internal sites that like show them what people 145 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: are posting. And this this goes from the from the 146 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: bottom levels, it goes away to the top. Like people 147 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: actually listen to bloggers, like like they're there, you know 148 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: some of them, some of the people I'm about to 149 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: talk about it are incredibly influential. And there's a bunch 150 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: of arguments in the early two thousands about how China 151 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: is gonna industrialize and these are basically online arguments. Um 152 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: and the guys who win that argument, she Shanping basically 153 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: takes their industrial policy and implements it, which is you know, 154 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: which is which is scales Like how online these people 155 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: are that Like, yeah, people are taking economic policy from 156 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: like literally, I mean, you know, it's it's not solely up. 157 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't take acon on policy people arguing on the internet. 158 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: Right this is this is an incredibly online society and 159 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: it you know, but the worst part is that for 160 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: a while it works. You know that their econart policy 161 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: basically is they're gonna increases size of the Chinese economy 162 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: by investing in sort of high tech industry and moving 163 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: up the value chain. This is this has been very 164 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: standards or Chinese second on policy for a while. Um, 165 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: the problem is in the last about decade, it's it's 166 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: it's after working. And you know the CCPs response was 167 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: to do more financialization, and this piste off the like 168 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: the the online they were called like the Industrial Party. 169 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: This this this is off those guys because you know, the 170 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: whole thing was don't financialize, just keep investing in like 171 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: building airplanes and stuff, and the Chinese economies will work 172 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: itself out. And but eventually even they can't keep making 173 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: this argument because you know, I mean like like he 174 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: doesn't tend right, Like the Chinese GDP growth rate was 175 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: ten percent and now it's like maybe five and last year, 176 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean last yearwies, so you know it was really low. 177 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: But I mean the Chinese growth rate has been imploding. 178 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: And so what you get out of this is is 179 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: this group of people called the Taoists based on this 180 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: guy named cow Okay, So, so how's the guy who 181 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: who who essentially introduces the concept of involution and he's 182 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: arguing that this is happening. Because I'm gonna quote him here, 183 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: people can't get quote a peaceful life, get a pretty girl, 184 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: live in a big house because of the US. And 185 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: so the solution to this basically is is to deal 186 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: with like to destroy America as a hedgemon. And then 187 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: once you do that, you know, you can get all 188 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: of these things. And as you can tell, like, you know, okay, 189 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: peaceful life, get a pretty girl, live in a big house. 190 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: This this is like a very conservative framing of this. Yeah, yeah, 191 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean this is this is the Chinese equivalent of 192 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: two point five kids in a a white picket fence. And 193 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: it has all of this sort of associated gender politics 194 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: and class politics to go along with that. And you know, 195 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: and when when Cow and the cows are talking about involution, 196 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: what they're talking about is they literally they literally means 197 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: Chinese technated economy, right, so that they're talking about, Okay, 198 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: that you have more inputs, you have labor, technology inputs, 199 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: but the output for input is declining, and the only 200 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: way to restore economic growth the chief prosperity is by 201 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: solving a decline output by defeating the Americans. But you know, 202 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: and and this this is kind of a big deal. 203 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: And for a while, in sort of like twenty this 204 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: this is, this is going places, but very quickly people 205 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: are like, my life fucking sucks, Like I don't care 206 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: about this econ ship or this like grand national struggle 207 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: against the world hedgemon, Like I care about the fact that, 208 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: like my life is this incredibly pointless, ever escalating rat 209 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: race with like literally no rewards. Yeah, that would that 210 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: would concern me too, if that were a thing that 211 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: we were capable of feeling in our country. Yeah, it's 212 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: why there's there's been some really funny stuff with involution 213 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: where like you read accounts of it and you'll get 214 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: like anthropologists going like, oh, yeah, this is this is 215 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: the thing that this is the thing that's unique to China, 216 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: and it's like have have you worked a job in 217 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: in the US? Like but you know involution, you know 218 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: what happens to it over over the course of sort 219 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: of it goes from being the general you know, it 220 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: goes it goes from being this thing that's about like 221 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: very specific like technical industrial arguments about industrial policy too. 222 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: Is when one anthropologists put it, quote the experience of 223 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: being locked in competition that one ultimately knows as meaningless. 224 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: And so people, yeah, we could we couldn't imagine that 225 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: this is yeah, and it's you know, and people people 226 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: start talking about finding individual solutions to this, and so 227 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, then this is things like working last moving 228 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: to lower tier city, is getting less protgious jobs. Um. 229 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: But you know, and I want to think about this 230 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: again because this this is a really interesting thing where 231 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: you have a very incredibly right wing, nationalistic and sort 232 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: of like like middle class like nostalgia kind of like 233 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, like Milt aggressive foreign policy thing and then 234 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: it just flips and and part of how it flips, 235 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: and this is a part of the story that is 236 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: almost completely ignored, but I think it's really important. Did 237 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: you guys know about this? The YouTuber named leads It. 238 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: She she's the biggest Chinese YouTuber. She has sixteen million followers, 239 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: and most of her followers are not on YouTube because 240 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, YouTube like blocked by the firewall. But she 241 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 1: has she has fifty five million followers on the the 242 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: sort of Chinese version of TikTok, and yeah, she has 243 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: across the world. She has a hundred million followers, right 244 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: like she she's she's one of the biggest media stars 245 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: in the world. And her origins are kind of unclear. 246 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: The like official biography basically says that like when she 247 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: was twelve, instead of going to high school. She's being 248 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: a waitress, and then she had to like you know, 249 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: but she she she'd gone to the city, and then 250 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: she had to return to Realville to take care of 251 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: her grandma. And she makes these videos that are these 252 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: like very soft and calming videos or like calming music 253 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,119 Speaker 1: of her going into the woods and like harvesting materials 254 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: and making fires out of logs and like cooking things. Okay, 255 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's just like it's you know, it's 256 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: it's very much this this really utopianism. There's there's basically 257 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: no industrial technology like Cottage corp returned to nature. Yeah. Yeah, 258 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people who watched it like 259 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: that just to like soothe them after a day of work. 260 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: Like see somebody like dig a cave and turn it 261 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: into like a bath or something using just hand tools 262 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, And there's it's interesting this kind of 263 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: it's almost like turned into a sub genre. But she's 264 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: by far the biggest like version of this. And you know, 265 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: so she she gets picked up by a media company 266 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: and from goes viral, and you know, its interesting because 267 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: so she's doing this because so she she has to 268 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: go back to take care of her grandma, and so 269 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: she like opens a store and she's trying to support 270 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: herself but in like her grandma by opening a store. 271 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: And so the videos were like a way to promote 272 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: the store. And then you know, now she has a 273 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: hundred million followers and she she gets a doctored as 274 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: this kind of like like national culture ambassador, I guess 275 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: by the state. Sure, And and it's just you know, 276 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: so there's nothing overtally political about these videos at all, right, 277 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: which is especially offering and like trying to sell is 278 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: this you know, this like fantasy of retreat from industrial 279 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: majority into world life. And I think it's really easy 280 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: to look at that esthetic and go like this is 281 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: basically fascist, Like this is rejecting majority embraced here issues. 282 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: Some people online when they see that immediately sees off. 283 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, it's eco fascism, yes that yeah, 284 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, and I think like that 285 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: interpretation think is actually a lot of y I got 286 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: picked up by the Chinese, by Chinese media companies and 287 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: then like sort of by the Chinese state because you know, 288 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: like having an actual positive utopian image of rural life 289 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: is politically easeul with them, and something that's like not 290 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: hasn't been true since like we've had this for a 291 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, well no, and I think I would 292 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: say this this. I think this is the thing that's 293 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: different in China is that there hasn't been like a 294 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: positive conception of rural life really since I guess the 295 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: Great Leap Forwards and then are like there there were 296 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: some people in the Cultural Revolution, but then they actually 297 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: went there and we're like, oh god, this sucks, and 298 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: so you know, so they didn't need a new one. 299 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: They come up with this. But you know, the thing 300 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: that's different about China than the US is that China's 301 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: market worker population like is almost the entire size of 302 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: the population of the US. I mean it's it's like 303 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: two seventy million people, right, I mean it's it's enormous 304 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: and and a huge number of these people. You know, 305 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm some of these people are going from like city 306 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: to city. You're like town of town, but a lot 307 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: of these people are coming from from rural villages into cities. 308 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean these are this this is 309 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: the background of the Chinese workforce. And like these people 310 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: like they see their family once a year because you know, 311 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: like they can't afford to go home. So they go 312 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: home once a year for New Year's because they get 313 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: some time. Often they come back and and this is 314 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: where you know, like these videos are obvious fantasy, but 315 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, they suggest an alternative to work in the 316 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: capitalist city that's sort of plausible, you know, especially if 317 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: you come from rural village. And this is where this 318 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: whole thing completely backfires on the Chinese ruling class. And 319 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, because this this this this cowisted involution discourse 320 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: is about diffuse with this style of rural rural utopianism 321 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: into a movement that is going to shake the foundation 322 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: of work itself. But first, but first, ads again also 323 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: not connecting to anything we're talking Connectionever, why Garrison don't 324 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: even bring that up. There's no needs, there's no reason 325 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: for people to think about about the fact that about that. 326 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Don't think anyway, here's about ads. Yeah, think about the 327 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: Washington State Highway, but role primary sponsors. If it could 328 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: happen here, if it happens to you, you'll want the 329 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: Washington State Highway, patrol the border. It's so funny. Anyway, 330 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: We're trying, but I think it's we're working on it. People. 331 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious. Yeah, please don't, please don't join 332 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: the Washington State Highway Patrol. Ah, we're back. And I 333 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: don't know about y'all, but I thought I knew what 334 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: I was talking about, and I after those ads, I 335 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: am fully Washington State Highway Patrol build. I'm on board. 336 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah. In April, a guy in Chinese 337 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: social media makes a post and I'm just gonnae So, yeah, 338 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read this post because it's kind of 339 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: short and it rules. I haven't been working for two years. 340 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: I have just been hanging around, and I don't see 341 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: anything wrong with This pressure mainly comes from the generation 342 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: with your peers and the values of the older generation. 343 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: These pressures keep popping up, but we don't have to 344 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: abide by these norms. I can live like Diogenes and 345 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: sleep in a wooden bucket. I can live like Heracleitus 346 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: in a cave thinking about logos. Since this land has 347 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: never had a school thought that upholds human subjectivity, I 348 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: can develop one of my own. Lying down is my 349 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: philosophical movements. Only through lying flat can humans become the 350 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: measure of all things based. Oh my god, that's the best. 351 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: I love that. Can I talk about Diogenes now, My 352 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: my man Diogenes is he's from this trennd in Greek 353 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: philosophical thought during kind of the high period of Greek 354 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: civilization where a bunch of things come out of it. 355 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: You kind of get anarchism, Western anarchism out of it, 356 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: You kind of get you get elements of like Puritan 357 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: culture from it, because there are a lot of them 358 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: are very much anti like the the pleasures of sex 359 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: and like anything pleasing, and like you don't you don't 360 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: do anything that feels good because then you become dependent 361 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: on it. Like there's a whole bunch of ship going 362 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: on um. And Diogenes was like one of the one 363 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: of the first motherfucker's who were kind of playing around 364 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: in this in this philosophical space. And when he gets 365 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: into so his early life is his dad is uh 366 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: kind of a grifter. It sounds like we know that 367 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: he got in trouble. He and his dad got exiled 368 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: for debasing currency, which could be as simple as they 369 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: were watering down for lack of a better term, like 370 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: the gold or silver and currency with less precious metals 371 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: and hiding it in order to make a profit. Right, 372 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: and like keep the extra gold. That could be what 373 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: they were doing. It also could have been like it 374 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: could have been political, because some people who were doing 375 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: this in Sinope, I think is the city which is 376 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: now in Turkey. We're doing it for political reasons. We 377 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: don't really know why. But there's actual documented archaeological evidence 378 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: of this, including right around the time he would have 379 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: been a child, we found from that period a cash 380 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: of debased gold and silver coins that had been destroyed, 381 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: so someone had like realized they've been debased and destroyed 382 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 1: them so they couldn't be used. So there's evidence. Anyway, 383 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: he and his dad get exiled, which means from an 384 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: early stage he goes from being someone of means, if 385 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 1: your dad's making the currency, you're not probably not like 386 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 1: a poor family um. And then they get kicked out 387 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: of their city state and they're like kind of stateless. 388 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: And so Diogenes evolves over time and like gets into philosophy. 389 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: He tries to there's this I always forget the name 390 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: of the guy that he he loved it first, but 391 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: there's this philosopher who's like, you know this cynical like 392 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: that's the school of thought he comes from he's like 393 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: a cynic um that Diogenes really wants to study from, 394 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: and the guy like assaults him as as Diogenes is like, hey, man, 395 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: I want to learn from you. Like he like hits 396 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: him or something. This keeps happening, and eventually he's like 397 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: this guy is like why do you keep doing this? 398 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: And Diogenes is like, you have something I can learn from, uh, 399 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: And so I don't really care what you do to me. 400 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna keep persisting. And so he becomes 401 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: this guy's student, YadA YadA. And the guy who he 402 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: becomes the student of is like kind of a poser 403 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: because he's talking about, like we need to give up 404 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, these kind of like pleasures of of like 405 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: civilized life and and return to a more simple time 406 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: and like not enjoy all of these, you know, the 407 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: benefits of wealth. But he like he's also a rich 408 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: guy and he doesn't give up his money, and Diogenes 409 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: is like poor as hell um and stays that way um. 410 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 1: And so he becomes famous for he goes to Athens 411 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: and he becomes famous for a bunch of like troll 412 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: ship we don't actually have. He wrote like ten books 413 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: we don't have any of them, so we don't actually 414 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: like know what he actually wrote in his philosophy. We 415 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: just have stories from other philosophers and it's all Diogenes 416 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: being a fucking troll. So like um on one occasion, 417 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: he one of his big things was he believed that 418 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: people that if if something was an acceptable behavior, it 419 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: was an acceptable behavior everywhere, right, And so the start 420 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: of this was in in Athens, you were supposed to 421 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: go buy your food in the market, but you weren't 422 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: supposed to eat it there. That was like considered rude, 423 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: like like like like kind of seen almost, and Diogenes 424 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: would like get food and then usually by begging, because 425 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: he was that was the way he got everything. He 426 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: had no money. He would like get food and he 427 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: would eat it right in the middle of the market, 428 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: and everybody was like, that's disgusting, and Diogenes would be like, well, 429 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: if it's okay for me to eat, it must be 430 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: okay for me to eat here. That's great. Diogenes took 431 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: it a little bit further than that, because yeah, yeah, 432 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: I can see a few ways you can take this. 433 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: He extended that too, if it's fine for me to 434 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: urinator ship. It's fine for me to do it anywhere. 435 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: He defended himself masturbating it. You can get people in 436 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: public as if this is okay for me to do 437 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: in my bedroom, why can't I do this here? Right? Um, 438 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: it's very like he's he's he's a troll um Diogenes, 439 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: and he's also like again, the stories we have him 440 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: is he is like uber an aesthetic, so like at 441 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 1: one point, for a long time, the only thing he 442 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: owns is a wooden bowl that's his cup and and 443 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: for his food. And then, according to you know legend, 444 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: he sees this poor peasant child drinking from like cupped 445 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: hands and he throws away his bowl and he's really 446 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: angry and he's like, god, damn it, I spent all 447 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: this effort carrying around something useless, like I could put 448 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: ship in my hands. He's he's a very entertaining character 449 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: and a very like yeah, yeah, he's absolutely an eugle 450 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: um and he's yeah, he's just kind of like an 451 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: endearing piece of shit, is like his the idea you get, 452 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: but also like smarter than I mean, because because fundamentally 453 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: what Diagenes is doing is he's he's saying like, hey, 454 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: all this stuff that we think is important and good 455 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: about our culture and and like valuable. What if it wasn't, 456 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: what if none of it matters. He's like he's provoking 457 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: the thick and he's he's big into like one of 458 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: his his Like the things he comes back to a 459 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: lot is that like, dogs are clearly happier than us 460 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: and like better creatures than us, so we should just 461 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: seek to be like dogs. Um. And one of the 462 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: ways he might have died is getting bitten by a 463 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: dog and his bike getting infective. We don't really know 464 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: how he died. Um. Everything about Theogenes, this guy fucking 465 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: hates rich people. Oh he's he's and he's very funny 466 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: about it. So Alexander the Great apocryphal Lee Maybe this 467 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: probably never happened, but the story is that Alexander the 468 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: Great comes to Athens, you know, while he's on his 469 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: his blitz through conquering the known world, and finds Diogenes. 470 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: And Alexander the Great was like raised by Aristotle, right, 471 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: so he knows his philosophy. Guys like he's he's he's 472 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: seeking Diogenes out because he's a fan of this dude. 473 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: Probably through stories that were told to him in the 474 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: same way that like I'm telling them to you now. 475 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: So he comes up to Diogenes and he's like, oh 476 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: my god, I'm Alexander the Great. I'm a big fan. 477 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: If I couldn't be Alexander the Great, I would want 478 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: to be Diogenes um. And Diogenes response, well, if I 479 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: couldn't be Diogenes, I would just want to be Diogenes, 480 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: which is a fucking flex Again, probably never happened, but like, 481 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: I want to, I want to read this meme that 482 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: Garrison sent me because it it happens. It's absolutely a 483 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: perfect riptan to what what this whole thing is sort 484 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: of about. So okay, this is me. The philosopher Diogenes 485 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen 486 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: by the philosopher and not a process gust name Aristippus, 487 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: who lives matter some dead ass Greek guy who's about 488 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: to get absolutely destroyed. He's living comfortably like flattering the king. 489 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: Aristipis says, if you would learn to be subservient to 490 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the king, you would not have to live on lentils. 491 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: Diogenes should flied, learn to live on lentils, and you 492 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: will not have to be subservient to the king. Oh, 493 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: all sorts of based ship like that my favorite. But 494 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: know so our guy Plato is like, is like trying 495 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: to determine, trying to define like a human in the 496 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: simplest way possible. Yes, yeah, like the Platonic idea. And 497 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: he was, so he comes to the inclusion that like, well, 498 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a it's an unwinged biped um, 499 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: and Diogenes supposedly goes grabs a plucked chicken and says, 500 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: behold a man, Like I found it, dude, rules um. 501 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: He would he would famously walk around town in broad 502 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: daylight with like a what do you call it, like 503 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: a lantern, like looking around and people like, what are 504 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: you looking for? It's like I'm looking for a man. 505 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: He would like, look at a dude, and you're like, 506 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: I'm looking for a man. And as it is to say, like, 507 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: none of your motherfucker's are people like you all think 508 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: that you're human beings, but you're really just pieces of ship. 509 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: It's just an amazing asshole. Sorry that that we should 510 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: move back to anti work, but that's yeah, yeah, but 511 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and this is this is the funny that both both 512 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: both American and Chinese like anti work people both fucking 513 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: love Diogenes. Yeah, you know, very popular on our slash 514 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: anti work. Yeah, and you know, and the thing I 515 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: was reading about the like, you know, learn to live 516 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: on lentils and you'll never like after such a game 517 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: by King that that's a lot of what lying down becomes. 518 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: So very rapidly, this whole thing spreads into you this 519 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: like really it's a sort of astounding, you know, it 520 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: starts out of the meme and it spreads incredibly quickly, 521 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: and the CCP gets like really really mad about this. 522 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: Um so, so it's like so this this starts in April, right, 523 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: and in May there's they have this like enormous media 524 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: blitz where like like the party is like outlet basically, 525 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: and Guandong publishes like a four page long attack on 526 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: the concept of lying down, Like the cc They the 527 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: newspapers everywhere published this stuff. Like the CCP like bands 528 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: the term flat wheat yet Yeah, and it's funny because 529 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: it's like if they do this, but it's too late, 530 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: like it's yeah, and you know, so so part part 531 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: of a lying down is is about, you know, you 532 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: have this incredibly fast paced intense work culture. You have involution, 533 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: you're working more and more and you're getting nothing out 534 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: of it. Lying flat is just going no, like you 535 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: just lie down, you refuse to work. But it's it's 536 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: it's also it's more than that. And I think this 537 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: is this goes back to the sort of broader conception 538 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 1: of anti work. So on one of the slogans of 539 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: this movement is don't bribe property, don't buy a car, 540 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: don't get married, don't have children, and don't consume. And 541 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, the last part of this is implied is 542 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: don't work. And you know, there's a lot sort of 543 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: going on here. I mean, you have you know, it's 544 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: not just sort of a critique of like we work 545 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: too hard. It's about you know, it's about the sort 546 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: of fall system. It's about the sort of patriarchy involved 547 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: in this. It's about this sort of like force capitalist consumption. 548 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: And it's about like, you know, the fact that like 549 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: literally a quarter of Chinese of China's economy or Chinese 550 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: GDP is like all this real estate bullshit that everyone 551 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: knows is going to collapse and even when it gets built, 552 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: like sucks. Thank god, we don't have anything like that here. Yeah, 553 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: I know, it's great. It's one of one of the 554 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: fun things about learding histories. You get to just watch 555 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: every country do exactly the same thing with their housing market, 556 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,719 Speaker 1: like Japan do it. It's like, it's great, It's just 557 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: like you also you think this will work. What what 558 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: what extra fun thing is you get to watch every 559 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: country do the same thing with farms and it always 560 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: ended the same anyway. Yeah, So there's there's a lot 561 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: of you know, in order to sort of like facilitate this, 562 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, you get back to the Diogenes, So a 563 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: lot of it what's happening is people sharing tips about 564 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: how to make the cheapest food you can possibly survive 565 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: on so you don't have to work, and so, you know, 566 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: and people the guy who wrote the Diogenes post like 567 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: he spends thirty dollars a month and he does this 568 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: by only eating dried ramen and eggs and like rice. Yeah, yeah, 569 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: it's the way to do it. This is like the 570 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: most extreme example. I actually, I don't even think it's 571 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: the most atreme example. A lot of people. One of 572 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: the things that happens a lot is munch of people 573 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: just like have left their jobs to become monks. This 574 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: this is like a whole thing Buddhist, like honestly, like absolutely, 575 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: like and I used to live in a place in 576 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: the middle of fucking nowhere, one of the most like 577 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: isolated places I've ever lived that like had power um 578 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: and one of the people who was like by neighbor, 579 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: they were within several miles of us, was a monastery. 580 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: This is in the United States, and like I went 581 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: there once too because I heard they made good wine 582 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: to try and get some of their wine, and like 583 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: none of them would answer the door. I could see 584 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: them inside all staring at me. They didn't do ship 585 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: and my my overwhelming thought was like, yeah, that seems 586 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: like a pretty good way to do it. Yeah, yeah, 587 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: I see why you guys have picked this life. It 588 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: was also during the election back from the r n 589 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: C and the d n C and was like, yeah, 590 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: that seems smarter than what I'm doing. Yeah. So there's 591 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, yeah, that'd mean the stream example, 592 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: like if people going to become monks. But like one 593 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: of the things that's happening a lot is again you know, 594 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: China hasn't known it mactworker population and people are just 595 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: like fuck this, I'm going back to my village and 596 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: so and you know, and this is you know, this this, 597 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: this is where they really screwed up with the YouTube 598 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: stuff because you know, people were people, you know, they 599 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: were gambling that that you know, you could just sell 600 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: this as an aesthetic and you know, you can sell 601 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: it as an aesthetic like Chinese TikTok has this integrated 602 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: thing in it where like if you if you if 603 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: you plug like something to buy it, like you can 604 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: like click it and it'll just it'll take you like 605 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: to a link like to to to to the thing 606 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: it's selling, you know. And so yeah, they're making a 607 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: no amount of money on this, but you know, the 608 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: the the other side of that sword is a bunch 609 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: of people were like, I don't have to work this 610 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: Like I don't have to work in a city. I 611 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: can just go home. Yeah, and you know, and you know, 612 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: and you know, so you know, as you're talking about 613 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: the antiwork stuff, it's not actually possible for a lot 614 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: of people to leave their jobs. So the solution to 615 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: this was there there's a culture that developed called petting fish, 616 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: which and but but before you talking about petting fish, 617 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: you said something about, uh, plug things on TikTok and 618 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: you know who you know, you know like plugging like advertisements, 619 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: and you know who also plugs plugs advertisements. Chris, Oh no, 620 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: is it us Joe Rogan. But our new sponsor is 621 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: the Joe Rogan Experience, brought to you by Honda. Honda 622 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: Drive a Car, Do Fascism? Honda? Really yeah, Honda Garrison. Look, 623 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: we don't We're not nearly a big enough podcast to 624 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: get fucking to get a Toyota ad Are you crazy? Yeah, 625 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: that's what we can dream big. Yeah, I mean that 626 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: is the dream to sell Toyota's. I mean we could 627 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: become used car salesman in the valley. All right, here's 628 00:32:42,960 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: that ah right back, cut the heat and fish handle 629 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: it to keep it all in baby. Yeah. So there's 630 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: there's all this thing called the petting fish, which is 631 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: like Chinese slack off culture, and you know a lot 632 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: of people sharing tips abo how to slack off at work, 633 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of the equivalent like I love 634 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: that it's called petting fish. And then also like yeah, 635 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of the Chinese equivalent of like boss 636 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why shoot 637 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: on company time. So people do just a lot of 638 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: like they have a lot of like genuinely fun things 639 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: they do. Like people people started putting like fake beatings 640 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: on their calendars and people wouldn't bother them. They like 641 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: they just like like, that's that is also that's that's 642 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: that's also what I do. Yeah, yeah, I mean the 643 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: if you want to make I love the term petting 644 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: fish as well, but if you want to like make 645 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: it sound cool. They're waging an insurgency from within capitalism 646 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: by by by trying to take resources away from their employers, 647 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: um without being spotted. Yeah, there's a there's a thing 648 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: in volume one of Capital about this that I was like, 649 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: I could pull this up, and then I was like, 650 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: that is too much work. I'm not going to do it. 651 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: So I don't have the thing in volume one where 652 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: talks about struggling between about labor time. But instead you 653 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: get a bunch of people like the Smike, smuggling whiskey 654 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: into work, taking through our lunch breaks. My favorite one, 655 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: absolutely favorite drink at work, especially if your nurse, Oh boy, 656 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: you've probably killed about fifty people crossed fingers crossed, so 657 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: you know how like companies all have these like these 658 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: really annoying like mindfulness fitness things. So one of these 659 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: people started doing was okay, so you know the thing 660 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: like you have to drink eight hour, eight times a day. 661 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: So they would set these alarms that's like, oh, I 662 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: have to go drink my water. And so like every 663 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: like every like fifty minutes or something, they just go 664 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: up and like spend twenty minutes getting water and they 665 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: sit back down, and it's like you've just eviscerated and 666 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: enormous part of your work day. And and the product 667 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: of this, you know, this CP is really piste off 668 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: about this, and you know, you get these giant billboards 669 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: to say no lying flat, no petting fish on him 670 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: or something. It would have been literally incomprehensible like a 671 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: year ago. It's amazing. And you know, and I think 672 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: this is something you know in the U. S anti work, 673 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: like the actual political class kind of has been ignoring 674 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: in I mean, you see a couple of f acial 675 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: antists in China, che Ching Ping like made a speech. 676 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: It was like, you know, he have a private speech 677 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: to a bunch of how people in the party, and 678 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 1: so a part of it a printed like a month 679 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: ago or something I've I've lost track of all time. 680 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: But like like like specifically in this speech that Ches 681 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: and Ping is making that is published in the official 682 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: like theoretical journal, he's like explicitly saying like don't lie 683 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: flat and saying quote happy life is earned through heart, 684 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: hard work. And yeah, and he's also has this, he 685 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: has his ranch. But like denouncing welfare ism, which is 686 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: great the the communist vanguard there. Yeah, yeah, preaching the 687 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: immortal science. Yeah, socialism with Chinese characteristics. Motherfucker's don't be 688 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: a welfare queen. Fo. It's great, you know, but it's 689 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: interesting people. This is the one people are really freaked 690 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: out about. Like I saw I saw like an American 691 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: writer about this, who you know, They wrote like an 692 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: article about this whole thing, and then they were like 693 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: this is gonna this is gonna cause inflation. It's like, 694 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: this is gonna be the driver of like what people 695 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: just use the word inflation to mean whatever scary thing 696 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: they want. Yeah, well they're they're like, oh, this will 697 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: this will increase wages and that will lead to inflation 698 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 1: and we'll get the seventies again. And I'm like, god, maybe, 699 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: but a tallow disco again, did you ever think of 700 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: that guy that we that were are reserves of a 701 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: tallow disco are critically low? Do you wonder what a 702 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: tallow disco is? No idea, that's a shame. All right, 703 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: let's continue what what what type of like is there 704 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: is there like any like you said this kind of 705 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: stuff started to like move left words. Is there any 706 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: like actual like leftist organizing in these types of places? 707 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: So so this is the thing I was getting to, 708 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: which is that, like, you know, people are starting to 709 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: do reading groups. But the problem, the problem with leftist 710 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: organizing in China is that, you know, so state policy 711 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: in the past three years has been like if you 712 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: poke your head above ground, you get arrested. So you know, 713 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean, for example, there was there was a strike 714 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: at Jasick and you know a bunch of student groups 715 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: who've been organizing for a long time like tried to 716 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: do all dreaty with it, and they all got arrested. 717 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: The people who are stri people who let the strike 718 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: got arrested. All that. The students who are doing so 719 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: ald already got arrested. People like people got arrested for 720 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: like like dancing with like University students got arrested for 721 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: like dancing with the people who were like cleaning the floors. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 722 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: like the emotional impression, yeah, like it's it's incredible and like, 723 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, and the other thing that you can see 724 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: about this was so so For example, there was there 725 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: was a guy doing like delivery driver organizing. It was 726 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: kind of weird. He was like kind of an entrepreneur 727 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: kind of doing livery driver organizing. Like he got arrested, 728 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: and then you know, like a couple of weeks later, 729 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: this is people like, oh, we're gonna like do things 730 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: to improve the conditions of of delivery drivers, and you know, 731 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: who knows if that's going to happen. But like, you know, 732 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: basically like any anyone out for some reason that the 733 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: people in the tech sector have been able to get 734 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: away with more for reasons that are probably class based, 735 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: and I think this doesn't take them seriously in the 736 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: way they do with students factory workers. But you know, 737 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: and actually I mean the fact that the tech workers 738 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,800 Speaker 1: like kind of recently like that there's a tech worker 739 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: thing calling for like like democratic control of production, which 740 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: is wild. But other than those guys like you can't 741 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, you can't stick your head up, you get flattened. 742 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: So this has sort of been the result of this, 743 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: which is this like you know, the sort of the 744 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: like lying flat is this. You know, it's this mass 745 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: decentralized movement that you know, there's there's no one to 746 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: hit with a hammer, and you know, and and I think, like, okay, 747 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: so one of one of the other quotes that's that's 748 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: been going around about lying flat is it's it's a poem. 749 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: It doesn't poem as well in English, but this, this 750 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: is the best you've got. Lying flat is to not 751 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: bow down. Lying flat is to not kneel. Lying flat 752 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: is to stand up horizontally. Lying flat is a straight spine. 753 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: And so you know what was basically happening here is 754 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: is it's a combination of the tendencies you see in 755 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: the US, where you know, a bunch of people terrible jobs, 756 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: realizing that everything is pointless. And then also this is 757 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: a way you can, like this is the way you 758 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: can like fight your boss without like the police showing up. 759 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: And so there's there's some interesting like political stuff. So there, 760 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: there's there, there's there's there's if if you look at that, 761 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: there there's a bunch of memes here because they're great. 762 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: So there's there's been a thing with these people talking 763 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: about how people are leaks, which are like their leaks, 764 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: they're harvested over and over again and they're being exploited 765 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: and like the plants, Yeah, plants like leaks like yeah, 766 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: you eat. And so they have this thing that's leaks 767 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: that life flat cannot be so easily harvested. It's just 768 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: like a knife go like try like a machete, like 769 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: trying to swing out a bunch of leaks, but the 770 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: leaks are flat, so they can't hit them. And I 771 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: see what, you know, I like, I like all of this. Yeah, yeah, 772 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's you know, and so and so 773 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: what the product of this is that yeah, like this this, this, 774 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: this has this stuff has actually been effective enough that 775 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: the CCP, like you know, I mean, the CCP is 776 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: is taking it seriously, but you know, there's not much 777 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: they can do about it. Because like if someone's just like, oh, 778 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to go from a job that's really high 779 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: stressed to one that's less high stress, like what are 780 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna are you just gonna arrest them? Like what 781 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do and so this, yeah, this, 782 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: this has been building for a while now, and I 783 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: don't know who who knows exactly like where it's going 784 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: to go, but it's it's it's already you know. It's 785 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: something that people can do as an individual in a 786 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: place where organized political action is impossible in a way 787 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: such that you know that their individual actions have a 788 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: collective effect, but one that can't be just you know, 789 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: pounded down. Yeah, I mean, it is certainly interesting to 790 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: see two completely separate, like anti work style movements around 791 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: basically around the same same exact time, with the same 792 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,240 Speaker 1: exact points, if you're totally different languages. If you're someone 793 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: who's interested in massive global revolutionary change, this should probably 794 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: be a thing that you are looking at and studying 795 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 1: and thinking a lot about, because perhaps while we're arguing 796 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: about ship that people started talking about in the eighteen seventies, 797 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: this this might be a better thing to do than 798 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: than that, because because it's it seems like there's some 799 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: potential here. Yeah, and I think, yeah, I mean, you know, 800 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: if if if you if you know any any any 801 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: any actual revolutionary project that makes the world better is 802 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: going to have to be international and that's been you 803 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: know that that that that that's been the bane of 804 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: all revolutionary movements forever. But you know, okay, so we 805 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: have you know that we we have something to Chinese 806 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: the American working class agrees on, which is Diogenes is 807 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: based in work sucks. Yeah, So as you go forward 808 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: into your life this week, um, take a page from 809 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: Diogenes as his book and the people ship on the 810 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: floor of a free people or yeah, free people are 811 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: an h and M. Go walk into one and just 812 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: just just go absolutely ruin that tile. I mean, fuck it. 813 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: This is why my my my biggest political advice to 814 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: friends who has always been learned to run fast, because 815 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: if you learn to run fast, you can do so 816 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: many more fun things in a store and then run 817 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: fast that it's done right. The problem is that a 818 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: lot of people like who who want to do this 819 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: can't run fast enough. So learn to run fast to 820 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: do this. There. It's like Moose said, all political power 821 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,319 Speaker 1: comes from being able to ship really fast and from 822 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: the doors of a free people. Just get that hell 823 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: out of there. The immortal silence. Look, I think I 824 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: think I think we should eve with with the real 825 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: immortal science, the the immortal words of a skeleton from 826 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: the share Zone. Just walk out. You can leave work, 827 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: social things, movie, home, class, dentist, close shops to fancy 828 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: weed store cops, if you're quick, friendships, if it sucks, 829 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: hit the bricks yeah yeah. As as some comedian who 830 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: I can't remember now said, always have an exit plan 831 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 1: like that. That that should be your thought for everything 832 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,439 Speaker 1: everything in the world. Bricks. Hit the fucking bricks, Get 833 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: out anyway, Get out of this podcast episode now. It 834 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 835 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 836 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 837 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 838 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 839 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: Happen here, updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 840 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.