1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:30,156 Speaker 1: Bushkin, This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior, So well 2 00:00:30,236 --> 00:00:42,236 Speaker 1: you married. That's Nate Olakoya, a contestant of ABC's Bachelorette, 3 00:00:42,316 --> 00:00:46,516 Speaker 1: proposing to Michelle Young on National TV. The Bachelorette spent 4 00:00:46,556 --> 00:00:49,996 Speaker 1: off to ABC's The Bachelor is a competitive reality dating 5 00:00:50,036 --> 00:00:52,756 Speaker 1: show where contestants vie for the love of the lead, 6 00:00:53,196 --> 00:00:56,916 Speaker 1: aptly titled The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. With the start 7 00:00:56,916 --> 00:01:00,356 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, The Bachelor premiered it's twenty sixth season. 8 00:01:00,876 --> 00:01:03,716 Speaker 1: The franchise has been a popular mainstay for ABC, with 9 00:01:03,796 --> 00:01:07,556 Speaker 1: average viewership reaching over ten million in some seasons. I 10 00:01:07,716 --> 00:01:10,956 Speaker 1: love both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. I've watched for 11 00:01:11,036 --> 00:01:13,596 Speaker 1: many seasons and at times I'd love to hate both 12 00:01:13,596 --> 00:01:16,516 Speaker 1: shows as well. Recently, I felt like the shows have 13 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:18,836 Speaker 1: fallen out of step with reality. I mean, you have 14 00:01:19,116 --> 00:01:23,436 Speaker 1: almost entirely white player pools. There was a year where 15 00:01:23,796 --> 00:01:26,956 Speaker 1: both leads and all of their players were all white. 16 00:01:27,596 --> 00:01:31,716 Speaker 1: Twenty years later, we finally get a black bachelor. We 17 00:01:31,756 --> 00:01:34,516 Speaker 1: still have never seen a black woman when the ring 18 00:01:34,556 --> 00:01:38,436 Speaker 1: which is getting the final rows. There's still so much 19 00:01:38,476 --> 00:01:41,076 Speaker 1: that needs to happen. The past few seasons of the 20 00:01:41,076 --> 00:01:43,716 Speaker 1: show have tried to address its blind spots with regards 21 00:01:43,756 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 1: to race. Out of a combined forty four seasons, there 22 00:01:47,036 --> 00:01:50,276 Speaker 1: have been two black Bachelorettes and one black Bachelor so far. 23 00:01:50,876 --> 00:01:53,796 Speaker 1: But beyond the lack of inclusivity, watching the show is 24 00:01:53,796 --> 00:01:58,876 Speaker 1: difficult at times because it's premise feels dishonest. Everything you 25 00:01:58,916 --> 00:02:02,036 Speaker 1: see on that screen is a choice made by producers, 26 00:02:02,396 --> 00:02:05,676 Speaker 1: everything from what's actually happening on the screen, especially to 27 00:02:05,756 --> 00:02:09,756 Speaker 1: what they're not showing you. That's Chad Coulchin and Lizzie Peace, 28 00:02:09,756 --> 00:02:13,516 Speaker 1: who you heard earlier, are co hosts of Game of Roses, 29 00:02:13,796 --> 00:02:17,276 Speaker 1: a podcast about the Bachelor and Bachelor Rette franchises. I 30 00:02:17,356 --> 00:02:19,876 Speaker 1: enjoy listening because Chad and Lizzie talk about the show 31 00:02:19,916 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 1: in a very different way, not as a reality show 32 00:02:22,956 --> 00:02:25,716 Speaker 1: that chronicles to search for love, as the franchise purports 33 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:29,396 Speaker 1: itself to be, but rather as a game with a prize. 34 00:02:30,156 --> 00:02:33,196 Speaker 1: And we meticulously recorded every play that has ever been 35 00:02:33,236 --> 00:02:35,556 Speaker 1: made by any player in the history of the game, 36 00:02:35,756 --> 00:02:38,796 Speaker 1: which gave us an in depth understanding of not only 37 00:02:38,796 --> 00:02:41,196 Speaker 1: the evolution of the game, but all of these different 38 00:02:41,236 --> 00:02:44,436 Speaker 1: statistical categories that allow us to apply metrics to strategy 39 00:02:44,716 --> 00:02:46,996 Speaker 1: for players coming into the game who want to try 40 00:02:47,036 --> 00:02:49,876 Speaker 1: to win the ring, the crown, get Top four, get 41 00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:53,676 Speaker 1: their million Instagram followers, or whatever their goals may be. Today, 42 00:02:53,876 --> 00:02:56,076 Speaker 1: we're talking to Lizzie and Chad not only about the 43 00:02:56,076 --> 00:02:58,716 Speaker 1: problems on this one reality show, but about how we 44 00:02:58,716 --> 00:03:01,796 Speaker 1: could take a more honest approach in producing and viewing 45 00:03:02,076 --> 00:03:06,556 Speaker 1: reality television. The belief that reality TV is real is 46 00:03:06,596 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: a solvable problem. Pretend that I've never watched this show 47 00:03:19,036 --> 00:03:21,276 Speaker 1: in my life, and just give me the most basic 48 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:24,716 Speaker 1: description of The Bachelor you can. The Bachelor is a 49 00:03:25,196 --> 00:03:32,476 Speaker 1: ten round game of attrition where around thirty women try 50 00:03:32,556 --> 00:03:36,036 Speaker 1: to compete to date one man. And the way that 51 00:03:36,116 --> 00:03:38,996 Speaker 1: we sort of break down the show on our podcast 52 00:03:39,036 --> 00:03:40,996 Speaker 1: as well as the book that we have coming out, 53 00:03:41,316 --> 00:03:45,876 Speaker 1: is treating it like a game, as the end goal 54 00:03:46,036 --> 00:03:48,676 Speaker 1: being either to win the ring, to win the crown, 55 00:03:49,036 --> 00:03:52,836 Speaker 1: or around top four placement, because then you are guaranteed 56 00:03:52,836 --> 00:03:56,596 Speaker 1: a spot in Bachelor in Paradise, subsequent appearances on the show, 57 00:03:56,716 --> 00:04:00,436 Speaker 1: and can possibly get a million Instagram followers. It's funny 58 00:04:00,436 --> 00:04:03,276 Speaker 1: because I've known the show is not real, and most 59 00:04:03,276 --> 00:04:06,036 Speaker 1: of my arguments against it have to be with what 60 00:04:06,196 --> 00:04:09,996 Speaker 1: they're pressing forth as the ideal body type, the ideal race, 61 00:04:10,116 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 1: the ideal way to fall in love, and the ideal 62 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:15,716 Speaker 1: family standard. Those are the practices that I argue with 63 00:04:15,756 --> 00:04:18,276 Speaker 1: the most. But what I'm hearing from you is that 64 00:04:18,356 --> 00:04:21,996 Speaker 1: it's there's more theater in this show than a regular 65 00:04:22,036 --> 00:04:25,716 Speaker 1: watcher would would even realize. Is that absolutely, it's pro 66 00:04:25,756 --> 00:04:29,556 Speaker 1: wrestling at this point, almost the kind of it is real. 67 00:04:30,356 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: I mean, every once in a while there is a 68 00:04:33,396 --> 00:04:36,156 Speaker 1: relationship that comes out of this show. There is potentially 69 00:04:36,156 --> 00:04:39,396 Speaker 1: even a family that does happen. It is rare, but 70 00:04:39,436 --> 00:04:42,116 Speaker 1: that's also part of the game. It's not real, yeah, 71 00:04:42,116 --> 00:04:45,996 Speaker 1: but the viewing audience, I think largely still believes it is. 72 00:04:46,676 --> 00:04:48,956 Speaker 1: So one segment of your podcast is there's a running 73 00:04:48,996 --> 00:04:50,716 Speaker 1: theme of the number of days and Lizzie, you do 74 00:04:50,796 --> 00:04:54,436 Speaker 1: you cover this portion the number of days without an 75 00:04:54,476 --> 00:04:58,596 Speaker 1: Asian Bachelor? Why is that important to note? Well, it 76 00:04:58,756 --> 00:05:02,676 Speaker 1: started out as the Days Without a Black Bachelor, the 77 00:05:02,756 --> 00:05:06,356 Speaker 1: DWAB as we call it, and we were tracking this 78 00:05:06,836 --> 00:05:10,396 Speaker 1: almost since the very beginning of our podcast until the 79 00:05:10,676 --> 00:05:14,036 Speaker 1: casting of Matt James, and so the day that his 80 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:17,916 Speaker 1: premier aired, the DWAB finally went to zero, there was 81 00:05:17,956 --> 00:05:21,636 Speaker 1: finally zero days without a black Bachelor. For us, especially 82 00:05:21,676 --> 00:05:25,316 Speaker 1: having watched you know, the history of the whole series, 83 00:05:26,116 --> 00:05:29,876 Speaker 1: we have basically seen how racist the casting practices are. 84 00:05:30,476 --> 00:05:34,316 Speaker 1: I mean, you have almost entirely white player pools. There 85 00:05:34,436 --> 00:05:37,996 Speaker 1: was a year where both leads and all of their 86 00:05:38,076 --> 00:05:41,596 Speaker 1: players were all white. Years later we finally get a 87 00:05:41,636 --> 00:05:45,236 Speaker 1: black bachelor. We still have never seen a black woman 88 00:05:45,316 --> 00:05:48,396 Speaker 1: win the ring, which is getting the final rows. There's 89 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:52,196 Speaker 1: still so much that needs to happen. And during Matt 90 00:05:52,276 --> 00:05:55,036 Speaker 1: James this season, even though they had the most diverse 91 00:05:55,116 --> 00:05:58,516 Speaker 1: player pool of all time, they were getting a proportionately 92 00:05:58,596 --> 00:06:01,116 Speaker 1: lower amount of screen time than the white players during 93 00:06:01,116 --> 00:06:04,196 Speaker 1: that season. Now we have days without an Asian Bachelor 94 00:06:04,276 --> 00:06:07,596 Speaker 1: because there hasn't been an Asian lead, There's been very 95 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:10,556 Speaker 1: low Asian representation in terms of the players as well. 96 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:16,036 Speaker 1: It's important for us to keep holding them accountable, to 97 00:06:16,076 --> 00:06:20,476 Speaker 1: make sure that you know, it's not a show upholding 98 00:06:20,476 --> 00:06:23,796 Speaker 1: white supremacy essentially. And I think it's important to note 99 00:06:23,796 --> 00:06:26,916 Speaker 1: too that it's not just about who's getting cast or 100 00:06:26,956 --> 00:06:29,716 Speaker 1: who the leads are. Those are all subjective choices, obviously, 101 00:06:30,076 --> 00:06:32,276 Speaker 1: but so are the stories being told and who makes 102 00:06:32,276 --> 00:06:35,836 Speaker 1: it into the final four. The leads don't actually choose 103 00:06:35,876 --> 00:06:38,276 Speaker 1: who gets the first impression Rose, who gets to go 104 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:40,676 Speaker 1: on the dates, who gets the group date Roses. That's 105 00:06:40,716 --> 00:06:43,236 Speaker 1: all done by producers. When we think about things like 106 00:06:43,316 --> 00:06:46,276 Speaker 1: the reckonings that kind of begin to happen in society, 107 00:06:46,556 --> 00:06:49,716 Speaker 1: and it seemed like, and especially into different types of industry, 108 00:06:49,756 --> 00:06:51,796 Speaker 1: There's one in the cooking industry, there's one of course 109 00:06:51,796 --> 00:06:55,116 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, and just everywhere. It just seemed like there 110 00:06:55,116 --> 00:06:58,836 Speaker 1: are ripple effects of people waking up to the realities 111 00:06:58,876 --> 00:07:01,156 Speaker 1: of racism. So when we talk about race and this 112 00:07:01,196 --> 00:07:05,076 Speaker 1: show specifically, we talk about these being subjective choices. Do 113 00:07:05,116 --> 00:07:08,756 Speaker 1: you think a show like The Bachelor can be reimagined 114 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:12,636 Speaker 1: to position itself as a reality show that is about 115 00:07:12,716 --> 00:07:16,436 Speaker 1: love in the current era for us, we think that 116 00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:19,516 Speaker 1: they need to embrace social media rather than run away 117 00:07:19,556 --> 00:07:21,356 Speaker 1: from it, as they seem to be doing with the 118 00:07:21,516 --> 00:07:25,556 Speaker 1: Bachelor Paradise storyline this year. I think they need to 119 00:07:26,236 --> 00:07:30,636 Speaker 1: catch up to where society is. They've been very slow moving. 120 00:07:31,476 --> 00:07:33,596 Speaker 1: You know, they've been making it up in terms of race, 121 00:07:33,676 --> 00:07:38,756 Speaker 1: but they've only featured one openly LGBTQ plus player during 122 00:07:38,756 --> 00:07:41,676 Speaker 1: a main game season. That was Jamie King on Nick 123 00:07:41,716 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 1: Baile's Season twenty one versus. You know, it's like one 124 00:07:46,596 --> 00:07:51,996 Speaker 1: in five young people identify as LGBTQ plus at this point, 125 00:07:52,036 --> 00:07:54,916 Speaker 1: So it's like, if you want to make more money 126 00:07:54,956 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 1: and keep going and not be seen as this relic, 127 00:07:57,636 --> 00:07:59,716 Speaker 1: we think that the game has to move forward and 128 00:07:59,756 --> 00:08:04,316 Speaker 1: start representing. You know what love stories in our country 129 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:07,596 Speaker 1: actually look like. They don't embrace a lot of marginalization, 130 00:08:07,796 --> 00:08:12,756 Speaker 1: so they don't necessarily disability size. They'd certainly have a 131 00:08:12,796 --> 00:08:15,476 Speaker 1: certain archetype that they got there. Do you think that 132 00:08:15,516 --> 00:08:18,076 Speaker 1: any of those things are things they get addressed if 133 00:08:18,156 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: it moves from network television to a streaming platform, do 134 00:08:21,436 --> 00:08:24,516 Speaker 1: they have an incentive to even try to address those issues? 135 00:08:24,636 --> 00:08:26,836 Speaker 1: Do you think they even see them as issues? Well, 136 00:08:27,156 --> 00:08:32,436 Speaker 1: they are experimenting right now. They had a bisexual bachelorette 137 00:08:32,436 --> 00:08:37,276 Speaker 1: in Bachelor Australia some of the offshoot shows. They are 138 00:08:37,556 --> 00:08:41,556 Speaker 1: trying things out and seeing what the reactions are, and 139 00:08:41,596 --> 00:08:47,076 Speaker 1: I think we'll probably definitely see a bisexual lead at 140 00:08:47,116 --> 00:08:49,396 Speaker 1: some point. Do you think you'll ever see a plus 141 00:08:49,396 --> 00:08:53,556 Speaker 1: size lead or plus size contestant. We've had a couple 142 00:08:53,916 --> 00:08:56,996 Speaker 1: plus size contestants and they tried to pitch Bob Guinea, 143 00:08:57,036 --> 00:08:59,876 Speaker 1: the Bachelor of season four, as a kind of non 144 00:08:59,876 --> 00:09:03,556 Speaker 1: traditional looking bachelor. He was like a little bigger than 145 00:09:03,596 --> 00:09:06,156 Speaker 1: as soon as he shows up as the bachelor. He 146 00:09:06,276 --> 00:09:08,356 Speaker 1: was a tall white dude, but like he wasn't you know, 147 00:09:08,396 --> 00:09:11,476 Speaker 1: like a jack bodybuilder type dude. And then as soon 148 00:09:11,516 --> 00:09:13,916 Speaker 1: as he shows up in the first thing they show 149 00:09:14,076 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: is him jogging and like getting in quotes in shape 150 00:09:17,076 --> 00:09:19,436 Speaker 1: to be the Bachelor. So even that was kind of 151 00:09:19,476 --> 00:09:22,476 Speaker 1: like overturned. And to answer your question, like do they 152 00:09:22,516 --> 00:09:25,196 Speaker 1: see these as problems? I don't know, whatever kind of 153 00:09:25,236 --> 00:09:28,396 Speaker 1: antiquated views they want to promote, whatever kind of psychological 154 00:09:28,436 --> 00:09:31,156 Speaker 1: torture they want to impart upon any of these players. 155 00:09:31,476 --> 00:09:34,436 Speaker 1: It's like, well, it's good TV. Well that what does 156 00:09:34,476 --> 00:09:37,956 Speaker 1: that mean though we're destroying the fabric of America? Is 157 00:09:37,996 --> 00:09:40,876 Speaker 1: that like for good TV? That's where we're at now? 158 00:09:41,036 --> 00:09:43,276 Speaker 1: So talking more about that, do you think it's actually 159 00:09:43,276 --> 00:09:46,236 Speaker 1: destroying the fabric of America? Because I'm I'm prone to hyperbole, 160 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:50,636 Speaker 1: and I say yes, but talk about how yeah, it 161 00:09:50,756 --> 00:09:53,796 Speaker 1: absolutely is, because there's I mean, we just came out 162 00:09:53,836 --> 00:09:57,476 Speaker 1: of the Trump era and this notion that we can 163 00:09:57,516 --> 00:09:59,996 Speaker 1: just promote open lies through media, and there's going to 164 00:10:00,036 --> 00:10:02,396 Speaker 1: be a certain segment of the population who either does 165 00:10:02,396 --> 00:10:06,196 Speaker 1: outright believe it or behaves as though they do. We'll 166 00:10:06,236 --> 00:10:08,756 Speaker 1: get us into situations like we're at now, where nobody 167 00:10:08,756 --> 00:10:11,716 Speaker 1: trusts anything in the news, nobody trusts science, nobody trusts 168 00:10:11,716 --> 00:10:14,796 Speaker 1: anything because everybody thinks everything is a lie. I think 169 00:10:14,836 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 1: reality TV is I mean, it's not where it started, 170 00:10:18,196 --> 00:10:20,996 Speaker 1: but it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. It's always 171 00:10:21,036 --> 00:10:23,996 Speaker 1: about driving people into emotional breakdowns so that we can 172 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:26,396 Speaker 1: watch that as entertainment. And I know that a lot 173 00:10:26,436 --> 00:10:28,676 Speaker 1: of people think Bachelor is just kind of like a frivolous, 174 00:10:28,676 --> 00:10:31,196 Speaker 1: guilty pleasure, but to me, it really is the most 175 00:10:31,196 --> 00:10:34,516 Speaker 1: accurate reflection of our current society, especially one in which 176 00:10:34,556 --> 00:10:37,036 Speaker 1: we just had a reality TV show host as President 177 00:10:37,036 --> 00:10:39,436 Speaker 1: of the United States. I like the ways in which 178 00:10:39,476 --> 00:10:42,116 Speaker 1: that you guys are critical of the show by you know, 179 00:10:42,196 --> 00:10:44,876 Speaker 1: bringing it into reality and talking about the elements of 180 00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:47,036 Speaker 1: it that aren't real. I think that's important, and I 181 00:10:47,076 --> 00:10:49,876 Speaker 1: think you guys definitely have encouraged a different way to 182 00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:52,596 Speaker 1: watch The Bachelor, but you guys also have some ideas 183 00:10:52,716 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 1: of how the show can be improved or a better 184 00:10:55,716 --> 00:10:58,356 Speaker 1: version of a dating show. Do you guys want to 185 00:10:58,076 --> 00:11:00,356 Speaker 1: talk me through what some of those are. We would 186 00:11:00,396 --> 00:11:06,076 Speaker 1: like to see a more inclusive, more honest reality show 187 00:11:06,116 --> 00:11:10,116 Speaker 1: basically that's more clear about what people are going on 188 00:11:10,196 --> 00:11:14,436 Speaker 1: reality dating shows for, and just a more honest approach 189 00:11:14,476 --> 00:11:17,316 Speaker 1: to reality television. I think for the past twenty years 190 00:11:17,356 --> 00:11:20,756 Speaker 1: and all reality TV, there has been this line drawn 191 00:11:21,196 --> 00:11:24,196 Speaker 1: between the producers and the audience, and the producers saying 192 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,876 Speaker 1: they can't see behind the curtain. The thing we're making 193 00:11:28,116 --> 00:11:30,516 Speaker 1: is this lie and they're eating it up, and that's 194 00:11:30,516 --> 00:11:33,796 Speaker 1: how we're making our money. But audiences are like so 195 00:11:33,916 --> 00:11:36,636 Speaker 1: much more savvy now. We all basically are making reality 196 00:11:36,676 --> 00:11:39,436 Speaker 1: TV shows in our instagrams and our TikTok's twenty four 197 00:11:39,476 --> 00:11:42,276 Speaker 1: hours a day. We understand how things are produced now. 198 00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:45,156 Speaker 1: I think all reality shows should step out of the 199 00:11:45,196 --> 00:11:48,596 Speaker 1: shadows and be much more transparent about the production elements 200 00:11:48,636 --> 00:11:50,596 Speaker 1: of it, and even maybe have that be a component 201 00:11:50,636 --> 00:11:52,516 Speaker 1: of the show itself. Every once in a while, especially 202 00:11:52,516 --> 00:11:55,316 Speaker 1: in Bachelor, you'll see a producer kind of like sneak 203 00:11:55,356 --> 00:11:57,556 Speaker 1: out of the shadows to have a conversation with somebody 204 00:11:57,636 --> 00:12:00,196 Speaker 1: or whatever. But I think you can have all that stuff, 205 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:02,596 Speaker 1: Like right up front, what do you think we lose 206 00:12:02,676 --> 00:12:05,356 Speaker 1: by mining our own lives for content in this way? 207 00:12:05,876 --> 00:12:09,996 Speaker 1: Mindfulness being in the present moment. I think we have 208 00:12:10,036 --> 00:12:13,596 Speaker 1: different opinions on this. For me, I'm ready for the 209 00:12:13,676 --> 00:12:15,076 Speaker 1: chip in my head. I want to live in the 210 00:12:15,076 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 1: metaverse now. I think everything should be content at all times. 211 00:12:18,276 --> 00:12:21,156 Speaker 1: We are moving very quickly towards a society in which 212 00:12:21,236 --> 00:12:24,596 Speaker 1: everything has recorded twenty four hours a day, and the 213 00:12:24,756 --> 00:12:27,956 Speaker 1: job will really be curation. It will be who can 214 00:12:27,996 --> 00:12:30,876 Speaker 1: find the best, most interesting things if you look at like, 215 00:12:31,196 --> 00:12:34,196 Speaker 1: do you know Tank Sinatra, that meme artist? Yes, I've 216 00:12:34,236 --> 00:12:36,796 Speaker 1: afforded a lot of Tank Sinatra memes to my friends. 217 00:12:36,796 --> 00:12:39,396 Speaker 1: I follow him on Instagram. He also does Influencers in 218 00:12:39,436 --> 00:12:42,676 Speaker 1: the Wild that is literally just videos of people making 219 00:12:42,716 --> 00:12:46,876 Speaker 1: content that we watch and laugh at. So now content 220 00:12:47,196 --> 00:12:50,756 Speaker 1: is watching people making content, and eventually it's going to 221 00:12:50,796 --> 00:12:54,076 Speaker 1: be people sleeping, people just like sitting on their couch. 222 00:12:54,116 --> 00:12:57,396 Speaker 1: People will start getting famous for those things once we're 223 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:00,796 Speaker 1: recording everything all the time, and I'm down for it. 224 00:13:00,836 --> 00:13:03,596 Speaker 1: There's a hotel in Japan that you can stay out 225 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 1: for free, but they just record you the whole time. 226 00:13:05,916 --> 00:13:22,276 Speaker 1: Is that good. What can listeners do if they want 227 00:13:22,316 --> 00:13:25,236 Speaker 1: to see the quality of their reality television improved with 228 00:13:25,276 --> 00:13:29,396 Speaker 1: shows like The Bachelor or anything else that they love watching. 229 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:32,436 Speaker 1: Have a higher level of scrutiny for everything you're watching. 230 00:13:32,836 --> 00:13:36,116 Speaker 1: Always be asking yourself when you see anything on any screen, 231 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:39,356 Speaker 1: why am I seeing this? Who wants me to see this? 232 00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:41,436 Speaker 1: And why do they want me to see it? Like 233 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:44,956 Speaker 1: they're presenting it. Everything you see on that screen is 234 00:13:44,956 --> 00:13:48,596 Speaker 1: a choice made by producers, everything from what's actually happening 235 00:13:48,636 --> 00:13:51,596 Speaker 1: on the screen, especially to what they're not showing you. 236 00:13:51,716 --> 00:13:54,796 Speaker 1: There's so much media being generated, and now with deep fakes, 237 00:13:55,196 --> 00:13:59,116 Speaker 1: anything you want can be generated. Anyone can say anything. Yeah, 238 00:13:59,116 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: and especially I would say, no one is as evil 239 00:14:02,556 --> 00:14:06,076 Speaker 1: or as good as they probably appear given the edit. 240 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:09,436 Speaker 1: They need these types of basic archetypes in every season. 241 00:14:10,156 --> 00:14:14,956 Speaker 1: Villains Fools we have We have broken down into twelve 242 00:14:15,036 --> 00:14:19,196 Speaker 1: archetypes in our book. But keep those in mind and 243 00:14:19,356 --> 00:14:23,116 Speaker 1: do not send threats or any hate towards people that 244 00:14:23,156 --> 00:14:25,156 Speaker 1: you don't know all the internet. How do you think 245 00:14:25,156 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 1: that results in improving the reality television? Like? What do 246 00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:31,516 Speaker 1: you think will come of that? I mean, ideally you 247 00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:37,236 Speaker 1: don't see players suffer from mental illness the way that 248 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:39,156 Speaker 1: you were seeing a lot right now. And this has 249 00:14:39,196 --> 00:14:43,316 Speaker 1: been going on since season one. Linnise Adams, the first 250 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:45,396 Speaker 1: black woman to appear on the show, who actually got 251 00:14:45,396 --> 00:14:50,276 Speaker 1: the first kiss in season one, went through like horrible 252 00:14:50,396 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 1: mental illness and started self medicating after she got a 253 00:14:55,036 --> 00:14:58,436 Speaker 1: huge racist backlash against her appearance, like all of these 254 00:14:58,436 --> 00:15:01,996 Speaker 1: white supremacists put videos of her on websites and stuff. 255 00:15:02,516 --> 00:15:08,956 Speaker 1: It's hard to prepare for the mental toll that having 256 00:15:09,196 --> 00:15:13,676 Speaker 1: yourself scrutinized, seeing yourself edited in all sorts of ways, 257 00:15:13,716 --> 00:15:25,476 Speaker 1: saying things that you never said, affects the players. What 258 00:15:25,556 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 1: do you guys see for the future of Game of Roses? 259 00:15:27,956 --> 00:15:29,236 Speaker 1: What do you guys see for the future of The 260 00:15:29,236 --> 00:15:31,996 Speaker 1: Bachelor in five to ten years, you guys still going 261 00:15:32,036 --> 00:15:33,436 Speaker 1: to be doing this? Do you guys think you'll get 262 00:15:33,436 --> 00:15:35,996 Speaker 1: tired of it? What will it look like? And do 263 00:15:36,036 --> 00:15:38,876 Speaker 1: you think it will be improved? What do you expect 264 00:15:38,876 --> 00:15:41,036 Speaker 1: that it looks like as you guys continue on, We're 265 00:15:41,036 --> 00:15:44,036 Speaker 1: really hoping our book comes out, How to Win the Bachelor, 266 00:15:44,196 --> 00:15:47,036 Speaker 1: and I think it will change the way people watch 267 00:15:47,076 --> 00:15:51,036 Speaker 1: the show. That's one of our goals and it adds 268 00:15:51,076 --> 00:15:53,756 Speaker 1: like a what we think is a fun element to 269 00:15:53,756 --> 00:15:55,956 Speaker 1: treat it as a sport, and we think that more 270 00:15:55,996 --> 00:15:59,596 Speaker 1: and more people will and we'll get you know, we 271 00:15:59,716 --> 00:16:02,316 Speaker 1: did some statistical work on this, but we're hoping, you know, 272 00:16:02,396 --> 00:16:04,716 Speaker 1: others pick up where we left off and do even 273 00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:09,476 Speaker 1: more statistics and make it into, you know, something akin 274 00:16:09,556 --> 00:16:13,556 Speaker 1: to the stats that baseball has, for instance, you know, 275 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 1: where you're tracking everything. I don't know if we'll still 276 00:16:16,116 --> 00:16:17,876 Speaker 1: be doing this in five years. We are trying to 277 00:16:17,956 --> 00:16:21,116 Speaker 1: do our own version of a dating game that is like, 278 00:16:21,516 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 1: at least in our opinion, a little more progressive, a 279 00:16:24,836 --> 00:16:27,396 Speaker 1: little more inclusive. And so we'll see, you know, hopefully 280 00:16:27,396 --> 00:16:36,276 Speaker 1: we can get that sold and on the air. Appreciate 281 00:16:36,316 --> 00:16:39,676 Speaker 1: you guys both for participating. Thanks for having us. This 282 00:16:39,756 --> 00:16:42,156 Speaker 1: was fun. Yeah, this has been a blast. This was 283 00:16:42,196 --> 00:16:48,516 Speaker 1: so awesome. Lizzie Pacing Chad Coulching are the hosts of 284 00:16:48,556 --> 00:16:51,236 Speaker 1: the podcast Game of Roses. We have linked to their 285 00:16:51,236 --> 00:16:54,476 Speaker 1: new book, How to Win the Bachelor in our show notes. Also, 286 00:16:54,476 --> 00:16:57,076 Speaker 1: if you're watching the twenty twenty two season of The Bachelor, ABC, 287 00:16:57,316 --> 00:17:00,316 Speaker 1: I will say that listening to their podcast makes the 288 00:17:00,356 --> 00:17:04,436 Speaker 1: show just better, So definitely seek that out wherever you listen. 289 00:17:05,676 --> 00:17:09,436 Speaker 1: Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, Research by David Job, 290 00:17:09,756 --> 00:17:13,476 Speaker 1: Booking by Lisa Dunn, editing help from Kashall Williams. Our 291 00:17:13,516 --> 00:17:16,996 Speaker 1: managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our Executive producer is 292 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: mil LaBelle. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks for listening.