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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: On the latest Masters in Business podcast Wow. Jose Menaya

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Speaker 2: runs wealth management services at B and Y Bank in

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Speaker 2: New York. Incredible bank, incredible history. They're literally the first bank.

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Speaker 2: Bn Y is the first bank in America, the first

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Speaker 2: publicly listed stock on the New York Stock Exchange. Not

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Speaker 2: only do they have two point two trillion in assets,

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Speaker 2: but they touch about one out of every five dollars

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Speaker 2: in assets globally. They touch, you know, sixty seventy trillion

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Speaker 2: dollars worth of assets, whether it's through their clearing, their infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: their custodianship. They're just a massive bank, the oldest bank

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Speaker 2: in America, the first bank in America, formed by Alexander Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Jose has a fascinating background and a fascinating career as

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Speaker 2: both a chief investment Officer and CEO. Few people are

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Speaker 2: better positioned to talk about not only what's happening in

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Speaker 2: the state of wealth management in the US and globally,

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Speaker 2: but what's coming next, What digital technology and tokenization means

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Speaker 2: for asset managers, as well as the impact of AI

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Speaker 2: on how we're all going to deal with our dollars.

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Speaker 2: I thought this conversation was absolutely fascinating, and I think

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Speaker 2: you will also with no further ado, my Master's in

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Speaker 2: Business interview of BN wise jose Manayah. So let's start

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Speaker 2: out talking about your background Bachelor's and finance from Manhattan College,

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Speaker 2: an MBA from Tuck Business School at Dartmouth. What was

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Speaker 2: the career plan?

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Speaker 3: You know, I my career plan was always a work

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Speaker 3: in progress. I always say I almost had like a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a Forest Gump approach to starting my career.

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Speaker 3: I first, I'm a first generation American, so you know,

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Washington Heights to a dominic in

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Speaker 3: a Dominican family, Dominican parents, So baseball was big my life.

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Speaker 3: And for a while there I thought I was going

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Speaker 3: to be a pro baseball player.

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Speaker 2: Would you play?

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Speaker 4: I was? I was a pitcher.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh, did pretty well, did pretty well up until

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Speaker 3: the point that I didn't and then.

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Speaker 2: High school of college, high school and college. I pitched

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Speaker 2: in high school. No curveball. That's the end of your

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Speaker 2: pitching career.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I My whole thing is if I threw strikes.

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Speaker 4: I did pretty well. If I didn't, I was going

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Speaker 4: to get in trouble.

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Speaker 2: So you a little control issue? Is that the problem?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a little control issues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to throw both hard and accurately.

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Speaker 4: Yes it is, Yes, it is.

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Speaker 3: It's like like everything else, it's about trying to find

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Speaker 3: the balance.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: So that's right. So you mentioned your first generation American.

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Speaker 2: How did that affect you? What? What does that do

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Speaker 2: to your world? You your work ethic, How does it

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Speaker 2: affect your outlook and career progress?

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Speaker 3: I think being a first gen and and just kind

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Speaker 3: of my you know, the neighborhood I grew up which

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Speaker 3: I often described to people. You know, if you've been

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Speaker 3: to Chinatown, well, Washington High School, and I grew up

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Speaker 3: there was the Dominican version of Chinatown. But look, I

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Speaker 3: mean I grew up around strong family values. I had

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Speaker 3: a great home life, very privileged that way, strong work.

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Speaker 4: Ethic coming in, but I but I did.

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Speaker 3: But I did grow up in a bubble, right, So

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Speaker 3: one end what I took with me when I exited

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Speaker 3: or left that bubble was work, work ethic, was kind

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Speaker 3: of really understanding relationships and that. But then when I

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Speaker 3: left that bubble, it was more defined by Okay, I

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Speaker 3: was in different audiences. I was in situations where then

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Speaker 3: more acclimating was kind of more my focus and my

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Speaker 3: goal for early early part of my career.

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Speaker 2: Really really interesting. You come out of talk, you end

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Speaker 2: up being an analyst. Tell us about the early days

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Speaker 2: post post grad school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think post grad school, I was still trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out what I what I really wanted to do,

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Speaker 3: because you know, if I even go pre you know,

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Speaker 3: coming out of undergrad, you know, I had a finance degree,

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Speaker 3: I was good at math, and you know, I asked people,

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Speaker 3: what are you supposed to do with this? And people

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Speaker 3: mentioned Wall Street in firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs,

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Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to get a job at

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Speaker 3: JP Morgan. I went everyone was taking a gmat. I

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Speaker 3: had no idea what a gmat was, but I figured

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Speaker 3: I'm supposed to take it as well, and I went

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Speaker 3: to grad school. And then coming out of grad school,

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Speaker 3: I went back to Wall Street. I not necessarily thinking

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Speaker 3: that's what I wanted my career to be, but I

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Speaker 3: didn't really have a plan for anything else. I think

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Speaker 3: as I started really searching around what I wanted to do,

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Speaker 3: and instead of advising people, kind of doing things that

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Speaker 3: we're going to be there for the long term, build something,

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Speaker 3: you know. I found my way into the byside, right,

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Speaker 3: and that my first job kind of in investing, working

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Speaker 3: at AIG Global Investment group.

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Speaker 4: I think today it's called.

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Speaker 3: Pinebridge, but that was my first real investing job, and

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Speaker 3: even there finding my way. I started out inequities and

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Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I like this, but I felt like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the other side, as I ran into people

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Speaker 3: on the bond side and private credit, I felt that

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Speaker 3: that was more kind of cash flow based versus I

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Speaker 3: used to get annoyed where my model. I felt like

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Speaker 3: my models were right, but the markets never cooperated with

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Speaker 3: so it didn't matter that I was right.

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Speaker 4: I felt more at home.

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Speaker 3: In that environment where it was more around, okay, how

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Speaker 3: how do I judge the downside? How do I kind

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Speaker 3: of really analyze cash flows? And then I found myself

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Speaker 3: on the by side and I found myself as a

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Speaker 3: private credit manager. I think from there, interesting enough, I said, hey, this,

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Speaker 3: I found my thing.

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Speaker 4: I love doing this.

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Speaker 3: And I always found myself in situations where I did

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Speaker 3: what I did really well and somebody always asked me

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Speaker 3: to do a little more. And in that little more,

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Speaker 3: it was always kind of like extending myself and say, okay,

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Speaker 3: am I still the smme? Or am I now gathering

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Speaker 3: and doing different things? And then ultimately, especially when I

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Speaker 3: was at TIA, it was this idea of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, should we go into agriculture, should we go

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Speaker 3: into commodities? And I was like, well, here, I'm a

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Speaker 3: kid from New York City. I don't really know anything

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Speaker 3: about agriculture and commodities, but you know what, I kind

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Speaker 3: of dived in and said this is interesting. This was

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Speaker 3: the other thing that took me to another place in

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Speaker 3: my career that I'd say I took another people viewed

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Speaker 3: as a big risk because at that point, know, I

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Speaker 3: was managing about a fifteen billion dollar private credit portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Back then that was a that was a pretty major thing.

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Speaker 2: Like a lot of money.

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Speaker 4: I felt like a lot of money and it was

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Speaker 4: and is.

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Speaker 3: And I kind of made a decision from doing these

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Speaker 3: kind of nights and weekends on this project of going

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Speaker 3: into farmland, I made a decision to say, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to leave all this behind. I want to

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Speaker 3: go try to build this and even the CIO at

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Speaker 3: the time said, are you sure you want to do this?

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Speaker 4: Because you know, maybe I'll.

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Speaker 3: Tell you what, why don't you give this a run?

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Speaker 3: But you know what, we'll keep your job warm for you.

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Speaker 4: Here. I think he figured he'll come running back in

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Speaker 4: six months.

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Speaker 2: Give this a run, meaning the CIO position.

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Speaker 4: Meeting running a farmland fund.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay.

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Speaker 3: And you know, so I went out and said, oh,

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Speaker 3: I want to do this. We ended up becoming the

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Speaker 3: largest farmland fund institutional manager for farmland assets globally.

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Speaker 4: At the time.

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Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things that my philosophy

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Speaker 3: and doing these things is you know, taking the confidence

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Speaker 3: to always kind of try things that get me excited

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Speaker 3: and that I feel passionate about. But I think throughout

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Speaker 3: my investing life, you know one mantra I've always had is,

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Speaker 3: you know, you've got to be really good at knowing

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Speaker 3: what you don't know. And that comes with being more humble,

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Speaker 3: That comes with kind of asking a lot of questions,

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Speaker 3: not being intimidated by bringing people around you that are

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Speaker 3: smarter than you. Because I was like, hey, I could

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Speaker 3: understand people, I can under stand math. Now how do

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Speaker 3: I fill in these blanks? How do I get people

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Speaker 3: around me They're going to give me kind of the

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Speaker 3: knowledge that I know I don't have, and that career

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Speaker 3: proession was from farmland. They said, hey, w you did

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Speaker 3: an amazing job. Can you take real estate? Can you

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Speaker 3: take natural resources? Can you take all of private markets?

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Speaker 3: And then ultimately can you be the chief investment officer

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Speaker 3: and then growing that into a acid management firm? And

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Speaker 3: what I realized was that what I thought my passion

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Speaker 3: was was in investing, but the real passion that I

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Speaker 3: really found was was in building, building things, you know,

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Speaker 3: managing teams and bringing teams together.

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Speaker 2: So I want to circle back to building what you

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Speaker 2: did at Nouvene. How do you go from JP Morgan

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Speaker 2: to AIG to Merrill? What ultimately leads you to Nouveen?

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Speaker 3: You know, what leads me to Nouvene is just I

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Speaker 3: always say, like picking up the breadcrumbs.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: I was on a journey of really kind of searching again,

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Speaker 3: what's my passion, what I want to do. I was

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Speaker 3: very fortunate, you know, here I am. I'm sitting on

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Speaker 3: at a job on Wall Street at JP Morgan. Very

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Speaker 3: fortunate to have it, but I couldn't see myself doing

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Speaker 3: that job for twenty years. Then I'm like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 3: fortunate to get a job on the byside, and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: this is great.

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Speaker 4: I'm at AIG.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a terrific opportunity, terrific firm. Yet there's

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Speaker 3: still that thing that I'm kind of still trying to

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Speaker 3: find that feels like, hey, what's really getting my juices going?

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Speaker 3: And you know, it was always that search for that

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Speaker 3: thing that kind of made me get up early in

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Speaker 3: the morning. And when I ultimately landed at Newvine, which

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Speaker 3: was part of TIA, that was that role. And I

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Speaker 3: ended up being there twenty years. And I would tell

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Speaker 3: you the large the longest role I've ever had in

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Speaker 3: my life in my entire career was my five years

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Speaker 3: or so, as is my role as CEO there.

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Speaker 2: Even twenty years is a long time in the modern

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Speaker 2: world to be at any one firm. It seems people

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Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. What was it that kept you there?

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Speaker 2: It sounds like they kept pilot on new challenges and

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Speaker 2: really keeping you engaged.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right, meaning like the longest role I've

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Speaker 3: had in my career is the five years I was

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Speaker 3: the CEO part of that Every three four years someone

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Speaker 3: was giving me something else to build.

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Speaker 4: I always say, I get itchy.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not the best steward in the world, but

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Speaker 3: what does get me excited is building things, kind of

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Speaker 3: building new teams, you know, the challenge of kind of

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Speaker 3: like growing a capability, and I got to do that.

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Speaker 3: Over the course of twenty years. I've been extremely blessed

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Speaker 3: and same thing and moving to my role now it's

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Speaker 3: a tremendous opportunity. And you know, I could still say

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Speaker 3: that twenty plus years. I still get excited every morning

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Speaker 3: to kind of go to work.

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Speaker 2: When you say building new teams, give us an example

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Speaker 2: of some of the sort of teams you helped build

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Speaker 2: that kept you occupied for twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I mean one I mentioned the Farmland example. That

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Speaker 3: was a complete startup.

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Speaker 2: From scratch, from zero.

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Speaker 3: From zero dollars to kind of go in and building

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Speaker 3: a team. You know, very proud of what we did

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Speaker 3: in private credit. You know, we started the Churchill Group

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Speaker 3: with you know again that was finding the right people,

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Speaker 3: finding Ken Kinsell, who was a tremendous leader and had

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Speaker 3: a team with him, and we started with zero. Today,

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Speaker 3: that broader platform at Neuvene is almost you know, just

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Speaker 3: short of one hundred billion in private credit. So there's

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Speaker 3: multiple examples like that where the basically the blueprint was

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Speaker 3: either we were doing an acquisition or we were finding

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Speaker 3: a team, and we're saying, Okay, we've got the right

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Speaker 3: makings here of a team. How do we give this

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Speaker 3: team the right tools and go out and try to

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Speaker 3: grow grow a platform.

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Speaker 2: So you're no strange too. Alternatives. We've talked about farmland,

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Speaker 2: real estate, private credit, private debt, natural resources. What is

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Speaker 2: your view today on alts? What do you think about

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Speaker 2: what kind of feels a little bit like a land rush?

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Speaker 2: What's going on in the world of altz today?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it feels like a land rush,

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Speaker 3: but I will tell you that this has been building

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Speaker 3: for some time. And the interesting thing is, you know,

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Speaker 3: if I go back ten fifteen years ago, my pitch

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Speaker 3: talking to clients around alternatives was one that was largely academic, right,

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Speaker 3: It was this idea of diversification.

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Speaker 4: Diversification.

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Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, I know you haven't seen inflation

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Speaker 3: in twenty years, but it may show up, and if

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Speaker 3: it does, are you protected for it? By the way,

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Speaker 3: you may be going to a market where there's a

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Speaker 3: lot more volatility. Have you thought about that? And then also, hey,

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Speaker 3: have you thought about yield? You know, you know there's

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Speaker 3: ways to kind of think about principal protection and your

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Speaker 3: portfolio and then yield and alternatives. I would say it's

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Speaker 3: just the way of bringing in the right correlations into

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Speaker 3: your portfolio. And some of the biggest alpha and alternatives

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Speaker 3: is the lack of access.

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Speaker 2: Meaning the iloquidly you can't sell in a panic because

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Speaker 2: the market's a off eight percent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and in many ways, you know you're you're going

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Speaker 3: to kind of structure and get a return you're looking

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Speaker 3: for because you need to have a specific skill or

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Speaker 3: access point to get those assets, so that maybe the

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Speaker 3: market's are a little bit less efficient.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: The interesting thing is today that academic conversation has turned

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Speaker 3: into urgency.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So now, while markets have obviously continued to be at

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Speaker 3: all time highs, I think individual investors have felt what

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Speaker 3: volatility feels like, whether that was coming out of the

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Speaker 3: global financial crisis, whether that was at of COVID and

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Speaker 3: the pandemic. We have felt and seen a lot of

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Speaker 3: significant volatility.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty two, first time in forty years, stocks and

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Speaker 2: bonds both down double digits. Like people seem to think

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Speaker 2: volatility gets conquered every few years, and whenever there's any

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Speaker 2: sort of complacency, the market says, now's the time to

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Speaker 2: teach people volatility never goes away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And throughout that, throughout that time period, you've also

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Speaker 3: have seen the growth of index funds.

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Speaker 4: Right. So also on top.

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Speaker 3: Of that is this idea of like you know, I

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Speaker 3: always say the world's become more commoditized when I entered

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Speaker 3: the industry, you differentiate it yourself by picking better securities

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Speaker 3: than the next person and driving returns.

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Speaker 4: Then all of us sudden there was a focus on cost.

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Speaker 4: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 3: Once upon a time, you know, paid nobody paid attention

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Speaker 3: to fees. I think then it was well, no, you're

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Speaker 3: going to compete on fees as well, and then became

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Speaker 3: the race to zero. Today, you know, investment performance is

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Speaker 3: obviously extremely important, but it's table stakes cost. We're all

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Speaker 3: we're all kind of basically at the bottom end of

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Speaker 3: that curve for costs. So now it's more around what

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Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're going to deliver to someone. Technology

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Speaker 3: is it's a big component. It is the flexibility that

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Speaker 3: you offer you offer clients but it is ultimately about

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Speaker 3: what is the outcomes you're going to get to clients.

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Speaker 3: And that's seventy thirty portfolio. That passive fund. It said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you're in a target day fund. You don't have to

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Speaker 3: do anything, just sit back and it all adjusts and

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Speaker 3: drives kind of the returns you need. Well, in those

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Speaker 3: moments where correlations go to one, it didn't feel so good.

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Speaker 3: That's right, it didn't feel so good. And I think

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Speaker 3: now there's more sophistication in terms of how you package

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Speaker 3: you know, solutions, more sophistication now on the need to

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Speaker 3: get alternatives to clients.

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Speaker 4: I think these things all now.

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Speaker 3: I think again, what was an academic conversation today is

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Speaker 3: is an urgency.

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Speaker 2: So the phrase I've heard from a number of people

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Speaker 2: over the past year or so has been seventy thirty,

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Speaker 2: sixty forty. That's the old way. The new way is

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Speaker 2: fifty thirty twenty. Are you in that camp?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think fifty thirty, twenty one, thirty thirty. Look,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I would say it's

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Speaker 3: not really about whether you should be in the fifty

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Speaker 3: to thirty. Ultimately, it starts with a conversation around what

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Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're looking for? What are your needs

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Speaker 3: right these these markets and when you think about alternatives,

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Speaker 3: by the way, these are not get rich quick schemes.

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Speaker 3: These are not like, oh my god, we need alternatis

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Speaker 3: because there's like this outsized return in many cases. I'd

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Speaker 3: mentioned to you Farmland that was a four to six

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Speaker 3: percent return market, but.

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Speaker 2: Extremely in long time and long term.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it gave you a certain correlation. So yes,

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Speaker 3: fit like all these different mechanisms.

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Speaker 4: At the end of the.

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Speaker 3: Day, though, what it's really all about is what are

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Speaker 3: the outcomes you're trying to drive for your clients, and

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Speaker 3: what is the sophistication we have and the ability to

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Speaker 3: construct those portfolios? And the most important thing in constructing

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Speaker 3: those portfolios is do you have access to a broad

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Speaker 3: array of capabilities? Because the more access you have to

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Speaker 3: different types of assets, the better the outcome.

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Speaker 4: Is portfolio theory one oh one.

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Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose Manaiah, global

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Speaker 2: head of b and Wise Investment and Wealth, discussing his

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Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen ti AI. I'm Barry Ritolts. You're

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Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Redults.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

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Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the

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Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, helping

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Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.

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Speaker 2: So when you were at Nouvene, you ran about a

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Speaker 2: trillion dollars in assets. You led the company through a

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Speaker 2: big expansion through the COVID pandemic, and then you helped

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Speaker 2: expand the entire digital engagement. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about what you put together at Neuvene.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think again on veen I if I you know,

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Speaker 3: was quite a twenty year journey because I joined when

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Speaker 3: it was basically just the investment team for TIA.

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Speaker 2: That was right after the dot com implosion around O

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Speaker 2: four something.

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Speaker 4: That was around four.

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Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I really started in five, and really I

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Speaker 3: was just in it was just an investment team. Like

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Speaker 3: I said, I joined as a fixed income portfolio manager.

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Speaker 3: At the time, we're managing money for about a two

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Speaker 3: hundred billion dollar general account. Everything was based in New

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Speaker 3: York City.

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Speaker 2: When you say general account, you're managing it on behalf

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Speaker 2: of Nouvene, not specific clients.

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Speaker 3: I was managing on behalf of the balance sheet of TIA,

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Speaker 3: which is an insurance which is an insurance company, so

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Speaker 3: largely just that was really the structure Nouve. We had

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Speaker 3: not acquired Nouvine yet at that time. But from that

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Speaker 3: two hundred billion you fast forward to today and what

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Speaker 3: I was there to help build and it became a

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Speaker 3: trillion dollar asset manager, one where it still managed the

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Speaker 3: approximately two hundred billion dollar balance sheet, but then it

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Speaker 3: raised another eight hundred plus billion and just outside capital

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Speaker 3: and these are sobbing wealth funds, wealth platforms, retail, and

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Speaker 3: it grew to about almost two hundred and fifty billion

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Speaker 3: in alternatives as well, So pretty diversified, diversified shop, which

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Speaker 3: now you're seeing a lot of firms trying to kind

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Speaker 3: of capture that same not just scale, but diversity in

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Speaker 3: their business.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about real assets that you've

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Speaker 2: had a lot of background in. Tell us about real estate, agriculture, timber, infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: Tell us how you built those areas previously at Neuvene,

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Speaker 2: now at B and Y.

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Speaker 3: Sure And I think, look, I think first of you

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Speaker 3: think about those different asset classes. I go back to

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Speaker 3: these are not typically, you know, strategies that you're trying

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Speaker 3: to get outsized returns. If they sometimes they come and

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Speaker 3: they're very much welcomed. They're typically pretty structured transactions, right,

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Speaker 3: whether it's buildings with rents, farmland with the leases, infrastructure

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Speaker 3: with kind of twenty thirty year contracts. Often there is

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Speaker 3: a hedge against inflation, whether that is contractual or just

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Speaker 3: by the nature of the commodity.

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Speaker 2: So prices go up. Langos follows.

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Speaker 3: So the simple kind of math on these things are

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Speaker 3: I'm clipping a coupon, so there's a yield component and

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty steady one. I have a gold like

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Speaker 3: protection because if you think about what do I own.

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Speaker 3: I own farmland in a particular case, well, that produces

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Speaker 3: a need for society and perpetuity, So there's a certain

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Speaker 3: kind of protection in your principle in owning that, or

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Speaker 3: you know wind farms. Just again there's intrinsic value. I

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Speaker 3: have a yield, but it's usually tied to a commodity,

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Speaker 3: and because of that, there's also an inflation hedge component

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Speaker 3: to it, and it brings down my volatility because it's

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Speaker 3: again it's more of that consistent return profile. So it

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Speaker 3: plays that part in portfolios that it gives a yield,

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Speaker 3: It gives it in a way that should be pretty

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Speaker 3: kind of high sharp ratio, lower volatility. Now today that

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Speaker 3: market is starting, it's trying to get into more mainstream. Now,

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Speaker 3: if I fast forward to my opportunity going to Be

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Speaker 3: and Why. Now, look, I had that journey in my

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Speaker 3: previous life. What I saw in Be and Why is

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Speaker 3: where the industry is going right B and Y. Obviously

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Speaker 3: it's two times the size of where where I came from,

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Speaker 3: but it's also part of BE and Why.

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Speaker 4: The bank and Be and Why.

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Speaker 3: The bank touches about a fit a fifth of the

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Speaker 3: world's investable assets. So there's almost amazing, Yeah, there's almost

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Speaker 3: sixty trillion dollars, call it fifty five to fifty six

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Speaker 3: trillion to be exact, that the bank is touching, and

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Speaker 3: it's either managing these assets, it's either custoding these assets,

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Speaker 3: or it's helping move kind of the financial the global

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Speaker 3: financial markets around. That is tremendous kind of access points

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Speaker 3: to someone like me sitting as an asset manager because

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Speaker 3: I'm working at I'm working at a firm that is

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Speaker 3: one of the largest asset servicers in the world. It

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Speaker 3: also is one of the largest services to wealth platforms.

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Speaker 3: I registered investment advisors. Well, I have a wealth platform,

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Speaker 3: I manage I manage an investment platform. How do I

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Speaker 3: get advantage of the fact that there's tremendous technology being

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Speaker 3: invested to help serve asset managers? And if you go

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Speaker 3: back to a comment that we talked about previously, which

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Speaker 3: is if the world's becoming more commoditized with performance and cost,

440
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 3: then what is the difference? The difference in what is

441
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 3: the tip of the spere is technology? You hear about

442
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: tokenized assets, which of which B and Y is on

443
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: the forefront. That's just about helping clients move money quicker.

444
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 2: To define what tokenized assets mean when we're talking about

445
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: stops or bonds.

446
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 3: I think the simplest way that I think about tokenized

447
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 3: assets is it's an ability to again be more liquid,

448
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 3: Meaning if you were in a T plus one scenario,

449
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 3: do you have the ability to be in a T

450
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 3: plus five minutes?

451
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: So for the layperson, T plus one means you sell

452
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,239
Speaker 2: something today, it clears tomorrow, the cash is in your

453
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: account one day later. T plus zero, as some people

454
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: call it, means you sell it and you instantly get

455
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: the cash. Is that what tokenization does for for people?

456
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: That's a big component. So that's creating that liquidity where

457
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: if you had to wait twenty four hours, now you

458
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: can wait a lot less than twenty four hours. The

459
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 3: other thing that it helps do is also kind of

460
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 3: you're able to earn a yield on but.

461
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 2: You're getting the cash now. For most people, one day

462
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But scale that up to an institution, scale

463
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: it up to a banker, ensure that day times thousands

464
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 2: and thousands of accounts and transactions really adds up, doesn't it.

465
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: I mean, scale that to again, B and Y is

466
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 3: kind of touching and helping move fifty five trillion dollars.

467
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: So T plus zero or T plus five minutes that's

468
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: much better than T plus one.

469
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 3: And it's a big difference. And your ability again to

470
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: potentially earn a yield in that process also right in

471
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: that whole T plus one in that twenty four hours,

472
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: In many cases you're not able to earn a yield

473
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 3: while that money is clearing.

474
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: So back in any battle days when it was T

475
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: plus three, we were always told, hey, it takes three

476
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: days to just make sure there's no fraud. The right

477
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: stock is going to the right buyer, the money goes

478
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: to the right account, and when they got trunk down

479
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: to one day. Well, technology has allowed us to do this,

480
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: but we still need a day just to verify everything.

481
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: What is it that allows us to go to T

482
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: plus zero? Is it just technology? Tell us how that works?

483
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think obviously the blockchain technology is one component.

484
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 3: The other component is the fact that you know, one

485
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 3: of the reasons being why I can lead in this

486
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: area is that it custodies around eighty plus percent of

487
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: the digital assets.

488
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: Digital assets meanwhile ethereum, bitcoin, any other sort of things

489
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: like that.

490
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: And it's one of the It is the largest custodian

491
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: in the world in general. So clearing something becomes a

492
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: lot easier when it's all sitting inside. I mean, think

493
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: about a warehouse. I don't have to move it from

494
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: one warehouse to the other. That makes life a lot easier.

495
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: So that's from one way. You're not even moving it

496
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: from one road to another. You're just changing the label.

497
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: Here's who owns this?

498
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, now, and again I will tell you for me.

499
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 3: It's I was having a conversation with our CEO about

500
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: this the other day where I'm like one of the

501
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: other things I love about my career right now. Look,

502
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: it's been a long time since I've walked into rooms

503
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: and I'm learning something because typically, you know, I was

504
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: a subject matter expert, and typically most rooms that I

505
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: walked into I felt like I was the expert in

506
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: that in that category. I'm not an expert on tokenization.

507
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on custody. I work at a

508
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 3: firm that has experts, and you know, you're quickly quickly

509
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: learning and what's important there. I go back to, Hey,

510
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: but what I do understand, even though I know what

511
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 3: I don't know is this matters to my clients. So

512
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, if I am trying to think about, hey,

513
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 3: how am I pitching my services to clients in Asia

514
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: and around the globe? And I and I have a

515
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: differentiating factor, meaning I can help you go to T

516
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: plus zero. That is a differentiator from a relationship perspective.

517
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: And this is what I mean by where today it's

518
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 3: it's there's so much more consolidation in the asset management

519
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: industry because scale is important. And why scale important because

520
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: you then need to be able to service and invest

521
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 3: in these technologies to service your client. AI is a

522
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: big topic today and I would I would argue and say, well,

523
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: if it's no longer debatable that AI is here and

524
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 3: it's going to be disruptive, is going to make a difference.

525
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: So if you believe that, you also have to believe

526
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 3: that the firms who can invest in it are going

527
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: to be the winners for tomorrow. Now, you know, being

528
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: able to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in in

529
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: AI that takes significant scale, That takes kind of diversified businesses,

530
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: being able to hire engineers. Right, So when I was

531
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 3: sitting usually in the role of running an asset management shop,

532
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 3: it's very hard for me to even say, how am

533
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: I even going to attract engineers from solicon Valley? How

534
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: am I going to be able to pay them? Well,

535
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: B and Y is a massive tech stack, right, Like

536
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 3: they can attract a lot of engineers, they can attract

537
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 3: a lot of investment in AI. I just happen to

538
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: be in that realm, part of that universe, and I'm

539
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: going to be able to benefit from that technology.

540
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: So let me step back a second, because we're all

541
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: guilty of using acronyms and even something like B and why.

542
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: You and I understand it, but perhaps the listener needs

543
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: to learn a little more. B and Y is Bank

544
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: of New York. It's been around for how long?

545
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 4: Two hundred and forty plus years. I think I've whear

546
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: two forty one two.

547
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: So more than almost two and a half centuries, more

548
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: than two centuries.

549
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 3: I got to add to that because I'm always fat.

550
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: I will tell you, even as I joined B and Y,

551
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 3: there are things I did not know. You know, obviously,

552
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: it's the first bank in the United States. It was

553
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: the first bank to issue the first loan or warrant,

554
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: begun by Alexander Hamilton. It's the first company traded on

555
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: the New York Sock Exchange, was the first first public company.

556
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: You know, our first clients of the of the bank

557
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: where George Washington and Eliza Hamilton and you know. So

558
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: it's it's just got incredible, incredible.

559
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: History, unbelievable history. In addition to all that history, B

560
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: and Y is also affiliated through ownership with a lot

561
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: of really well known names within finance. Tell us about

562
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: some of the other divisions that maybe people will be

563
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: more familiar with those names.

564
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I tell you, I think this has a

565
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: lot to do with kind of the recent performance you're

566
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: seeing about the firm, because it's unlocking what we would

567
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: describe as you know, B and Y is a platform

568
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: operating has a platform operating model, meaning it has multiple platforms.

569
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 4: You know.

570
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: Of course, it has an asset manager, and it has

571
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: a wealth business. As we said, it's got a two

572
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: trillion dollar acid manager. It's got about a three hundred

573
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: and fifty billion dollar private bank wealth platform. By the way,

574
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: it also owns pershing.

575
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: And Giant clearing shop and.

576
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: And that captures around almost three trillion and advisors advisors

577
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: capital that it's servicing through a technology and a service

578
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: and a service platform. It has an asset servicing arm,

579
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: and that asset servicing is serving both asset managers and

580
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: asset owners doing things like custody uh, fund accounting. It

581
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: it has a treasury component as well. You know, the

582
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: other interesting thing about being WI is it clears all

583
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: the treasuries of the United States, So, uh, you know,

584
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 3: it's a jesip, It's a it's a significant bank, uh

585
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: and plays an important part in our financial and our

586
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: financial system.

587
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: Really really interesting. So tell me the story of how

588
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: you move from Neuvene to your role as global head

589
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: of B and Y Investments. You're doubling the size of

590
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: the assets you're responsible. Have you approach this change? What

591
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: sort of challenges did you face?

592
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: You know, I think every challenge that's kind of a

593
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: that's really attracted me, including what you know, what kept

594
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: me in my previous role and the different roles I

595
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: was in It was the opportunity for growth, right, And

596
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 3: I think looking at at B and Y and seeing

597
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 3: where I believe the industry is going just so a

598
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: tremendous opportunity of what is a true trillion dollar shop,

599
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: you know, should should easily be a four trillion dollar shop, right,

600
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: And you think about the ecosystem that we play in

601
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: within be and why right, as I mentioned you, you know,

602
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: we we manage money for other people as an asset manager.

603
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: We manage money also as a wealth platform for for

604
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: families and individuals. Yet we also have we also service

605
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: other wealth advisors through purshing. But there also are the

606
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: clients of the firm. I'm an acid manager, A lot

607
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: of my competitors are clients of B and Y as well.

608
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: So and then you think about the technology that it

609
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: takes to do all that and and grow that technology stack.

610
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: I feel like a kid on a candy store for

611
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: two reasons. One, that's a tremendous amount of infrastructure and

612
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: capabilities that are there that I should have a home

613
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 3: field advantage to. The other thing is that has become

614
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: a lot easier in my job. Is you know, when

615
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: you touch a fifth of the world's assets, most people

616
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: are your clients, So getting having a conversation with potential clients.

617
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: Is very easy to do.

618
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: A lot of what you've seen the recent success of

619
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: B and Y and I think you said this earlier

620
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: is a collection of a lot of different things that

621
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 3: were either acquired or built. Is that, But it was

622
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: also a very siloed organization for a while. The ability

623
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 3: of having that cross connection if I look at a

624
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: world that AI is going to be important, you know,

625
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: being able to touch your clients in multiple ways and

626
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 3: have broader technology. I am sitting in that in a

627
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: spot where in those all those platform operating models, I'm

628
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: two of those, but I'm fitting in pretty well. I'm

629
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 3: trying to take the advantage of the other five or

630
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: six that are around me. A great example of that

631
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: that I is Archer.

632
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: Archer is a digital platform. It's a technology platform for SMAs. Right,

633
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 4: so I e.

634
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 3: Your ability to clients want to be able to We

635
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: talked about solutions, your ability to go to an Archer.

636
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 3: And by the way, my previous job Archer was a

637
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: client of Archer.

638
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: And SMA stand for separately managed accounts.

639
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 4: Separately managed accounts. So again, now you go back to technology,

640
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: meaning you may be able to manage bonds and equities

641
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 4: and alternatives or even tax managed solutions. Believe it or not.

642
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: Bringing that together in a package for individuals takes technology.

643
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: Of course, asset managers traditionally their stock pickers or investors

644
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: are not technology people. So you go to that platform

645
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: and do that. Now, when I join B and Y,

646
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, this is great. Acquired Archer. I know

647
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: that they have a great capability for doing this and

648
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: this is a growing market. And already our wealth platform

649
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: is a client of Archer before it was even acquired.

650
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: The Acid Management on being White was already a client

651
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 3: was acquired. Now Archer is also free to grow because

652
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: it services a broader, broader capability.

653
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: So if your services be and why and be and why, clients.

654
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's important because again, if you think about this,

655
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: the model of tomorrow and what scale matters is one

656
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: you can it's its own business and just kind of

657
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: providing what Archer does to the broader to the broader community,

658
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: we get an inside where we get an inside view

659
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 3: and a home field advantage and getting it ourselves. Typically,

660
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: if I build my own SMA platform, I have to

661
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: not worry about how do I feed it to grow it?

662
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: Other people are feeding it to grow it, and I

663
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: get the benefit of kind of being attached to it.

664
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: And I think that connectivity around Hey, everything I do

665
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: on the acid management side, you know, all those clients

666
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: are pursing they buy that as well. Should we not

667
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: be engaging with our clients to do more for them.

668
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: It's like, sure, we're doing clearing for you and custody

669
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: and offering you technology. We also have asset management, all

670
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 3: of them obviously by asset management as well. So having

671
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: those connective dots, I think is I think is a

672
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: tremendous competitive advantage.

673
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: So I want to talk a little bit about your role.

674
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: I want to define it better. At NEUVIN, you were

675
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: CIO and then you were CEO. Two distinct positions. Your

676
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: title is head Global Head of B and Y Investments

677
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: and Wealth. Sounds like a little bit of each you're building,

678
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: but you're also helping to direct the investing. Tell us

679
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: a little bit about your roles and responsibilities in this

680
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: new position at B and Y.

681
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I look at one end of the

682
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 3: spectrum is very similar to my previous role, which is

683
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: B and WHY Investments. Is an asset manager, you know,

684
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: obviously it's a much bigger one than the firm came from,

685
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 3: but it's an asset manager, and there you know, I'm

686
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: the chief executive for that particular platform. We also have

687
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 3: a wealth platform and very different from asset management. It's

688
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: more dealing with individuals and advice, but there's also synergies

689
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: in the business right, meaning if you're a wealth advisor,

690
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 3: you're talking about how do you create investment products, how

691
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: do you source them? What we have investment products, and

692
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 3: how do how do we make sure those two groups

693
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 3: are talking to each other. What's the products that we're creating.

694
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 3: If you're an asset manager, A big part of who

695
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: our clients are are wealth advisors. So having a good

696
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: understanding of kind of what wealth advisors need it really

697
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: helps to have a wealth advisor in house, so I'm

698
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: managing a larger platform, but at the end of the day,

699
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: my job is still very similar. It's about picking the

700
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 3: right teams and people.

701
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 4: You know, we talk about two trillion dollars and I

702
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 4: would tell you two trillion should go to four trillion.

703
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: We don't own any of that money the end of

704
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 4: the day.

705
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 3: Our biggest value set of what we do and have

706
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: is our people and obviously the technology that we can

707
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 3: offer those folks, but people is kind of really our business.

708
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: And I've kind of seen my job today really as

709
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: the chief chief people officer for.

710
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 4: How we kind of build teams around this.

711
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose manya global

712
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: head of b and WISE Investment and Wealth, discussing his

713
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen TIAA. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening

714
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults.

715
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

716
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the

717
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: global head of b and Y Investments and Wealth, helping

718
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.

719
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: So let's talk about who the clients are at B

720
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: and Y. You mentioned rias and advisors my day job,

721
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 2: but you also work with institutions. You work with high

722
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: net worth and family offices, as well as other players

723
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: in the investing world who are also clients. Sounds like

724
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: you guys are a little bit of everything to a

725
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 2: lot of different people. How do you keep all that

726
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: running smoothly? How do you keep all those balls in

727
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: the air?

728
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

729
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think B and Y is often described

730
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 3: as the bank of banks, right because again it's kind

731
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: of that broader provider and in goes the opportunity set right.

732
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 3: Like again, you look at the firm, I don't know

733
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: the last tight look, that stock was about one oh six.

734
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 3: You know, that's in less than a three year span

735
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: of thereabouts from forty dollars. It makes it one of

736
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: the best performing kind of financial stock.

737
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: And financials have been kind of lagging the tech sector

738
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: for a couple of years. They're stunting to play a

739
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: little bit of catch up.

740
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 4: They're playing a little catchup. They're doing better, but I

741
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: think few are doing better, if any, are doing better

742
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: than be And why some of It goes back to

743
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 4: that question you just asked me. Yeah, that there's a

744
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 4: lot of these the way the way typically these conglomerates

745
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 4: or these platforms would typically manage, we're very siloed. You know.

746
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: The ability to bring in the technology and the leadership

747
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: to say, how do we have better connectivity across all

748
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 3: our platforms is where the value proposition is and the

749
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: market is seeing that and the market is rewarding that.

750
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: So it's funny. Earlier we talked about how commoditized so

751
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: much of the world has become. You're basically saying we

752
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: need to be an integrated solutions provider and not just

753
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 2: have these commoditized silos, which is what exists outside of

754
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: a mega bank of banks like v.

755
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: And why Yeah, so much. We used to talk about

756
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 3: the you know, concept of selling watches. You know, I

757
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 3: think that you know, the world doesn't really it's it's

758
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 3: hard to sell watches. Now people are looking for they need,

759
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: you know, our clients are getting more efficient, they need

760
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 3: to scale their operations as well. And it's the idea

761
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: of like do I want to work with one hundred

762
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: and fifty managers or am I better off working with

763
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 3: twenty thirty or forty. And if I'm going to go

764
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 3: from one hundred and fifty different types of managers, you know,

765
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 3: to twenty or thirty, how do I pick those twenty

766
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: or thirty?

767
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 4: What's going to differentiate that?

768
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: So I think a lot of that is is what's

769
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 3: driving the need for scale, It's what's driving the need

770
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 3: for consolidation, and it's also driving a lot of innovation.

771
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: So you've mentioned technology a couple of times. We've talked

772
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: about tokenization and a little bit about AI. What are

773
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: the big technological trends that we can look for over

774
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 2: the next couple of years. Where are you thinking about

775
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: how technology is going to have the biggest impact on

776
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 2: asset managers and on investors.

777
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting, and honestly, I often my narrative has changed.

778
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 4: I used to say, look, AI is going to be

779
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: very disruptive, but I have no idea if it's five

780
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 4: years from now or twenty years from now. And by

781
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 4: the way, that makes it very difficult to invest in it,

782
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 4: right because it's when are you going to get the

783
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 4: returns for it? You know?

784
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: Clearly now that's come into a lot more clarity because

785
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: where you know, AI has begun to already yield returns

786
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: for firms and be and Y is no different is

787
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 3: on the productivity side, right you know. I think Being

788
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 3: Why is one of the first firms to have digital employees,

789
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 3: So digital employees that can work on real problems, and

790
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: that's driving productivity increases.

791
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 4: And that's kind of been a large part of the

792
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: narrative with AI.

793
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 3: Now the new narrative is it can also provide value

794
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: add So again, an as an investor, do you have

795
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: the capability of instead of the old way of We're

796
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 3: going to look at satellite pictures and see how many

797
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: cars are there on the driver? Well, now a I

798
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: can actually track devices and kind of see where things

799
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: are coming. AI is able to go through a lot

800
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 3: more information and and asseeminate that information. So uh, you know,

801
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: I I still say that human beings with a I

802
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: will be better than human beings without AI.

803
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 4: I e.

804
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 3: You're still going to need the component for for human

805
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 3: beings in the mix. But so much of the future

806
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 3: is unknown and and and by the way, I think

807
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 3: that's also the uneasy part that we are today in

808
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: our markets because if you if you speak to individuals

809
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: on one end, I can kind of picture and say

810
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: the economy is doing great. Earnings earnings are strong, consumer

811
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: household balance sheets are strong, wages are still relatively you

812
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 3: know strong as well, and there's a there's a strong

813
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: kind of like very constructive view to putting your money

814
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: in the market today, even at these valuations. The other

815
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: side of that story is okay, but then are we

816
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 3: losing the independence of the fad? Are there geopolitical issues

817
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 3: and wars out there that can also you know, cause

818
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 3: massive disruptions in the global economy, policy issues you know,

819
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 3: and fiscal issues coming to the forefront that could just

820
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 3: be mistakes that happen. So at the same time, there's

821
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: so many things then that can go wrong. I always

822
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: say we're probably at an all time high of things

823
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: that can go wrong. Yet where you shit today should

824
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: feel pretty good in terms of you know, the economics

825
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: and the economy. And I think technology is the same thing.

826
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: It's like, wow, AI is going to be disruptive. What

827
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: we think I can do is literally changing every week,

828
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 3: every month, and again that in many ways is exciting.

829
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: In many ways, it's also extremely unsettling.

830
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: To say the very least. Since you brought up the

831
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: current state of the world profits for all time high,

832
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: but it seems like risk sort of all time highs.

833
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: I want to throw two of your own quotes back

834
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: at you and get your thoughts on it. In the

835
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: beginning of this year, you said risk assets are going higher.

836
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: What led you to that conclusion? And has the year

837
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: played out as you expected?

838
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 4: Clearly?

839
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: Look, I think and I think there was a little bit.

840
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: I think I was challenged a little bit on that comment.

841
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 3: And remember I said it right after Liberation Day, so

842
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 3: the markets were obviously falling off. There was a tremendous

843
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 3: amount of concern with the tariffs and what would come.

844
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 4: You know, I had two thoughts there.

845
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: One understanding that I thought the current administration that we

846
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: have was going to be about the carrot and the stick,

847
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 3: and we started out the year with the stick, but

848
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: you know what, the carrot was going to show up

849
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: at some point. And then too, this other view of

850
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 3: you know, most of us don't have a choice to

851
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 3: be risk off, right, the idea that, like, you know,

852
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: being risk off through these different cycles hasn't really paid off.

853
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 3: So the one thing you should do is like go

854
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: back and look at the fundamentals. But yes, if you're

855
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: saying I'm going to just take a correlation of one

856
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 3: or just take broad market exposure. It's more than again

857
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: the academic conversation being more of an urgency if you

858
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: think about the actual conversation around I'm structured for solutions

859
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: for outcomes in my portfolio, then why should you be

860
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: risk off?

861
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 4: You already planned for this.

862
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 3: I maybe planned to have part of my principle protected

863
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: and maybe plan to have certain amounts of yield or

864
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: uncorrelated assets in my portfolio. So my deput is again one,

865
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 3: the fundamentals are there to not say exit the market,

866
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 3: but two, this should not always be around should I

867
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: buy this stock or that stock, or should I go

868
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 3: bonds or equities.

869
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: Has to be broader.

870
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 4: It has to be.

871
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 3: It has to be broader because you know, we're not

872
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: a hedge fund, and a lot of what we do

873
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: is not about that.

874
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 4: It is about driving long term outcomes.

875
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 2: So another quote of yours that caught my attention was,

876
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: NOI is that all time highs? I totally agree, but

877
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: explain your point of view.

878
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'll explain it.

879
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: I'll explain it both in terms of kind of the

880
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: where we are in our markets and then also like

881
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 3: it's also like a personal philosophy.

882
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 4: One.

883
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 3: This is what I mean by things look very calm,

884
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 3: things look very constructive, Yet we can I think my

885
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: team at the time, and this was back in January,

886
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 3: I think there were like twenty six or thirty different

887
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: like press releases or things that happened that kind of

888
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 3: really jolted the markets in some way or cause concern.

889
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: So the list of the things going on, whether it's inflation,

890
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: whether it's political, you know, the FED policy.

891
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 4: Changes, wars, the list endless. It's endless.

892
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: So there's that I think is at an all time

893
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: high of the things that Okay, what's the list of

894
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 3: what can go wrong? But then you know the other

895
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 3: thing with noise, And I say this to my kids,

896
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: I try to I'm still trying to master this is

897
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 3: that in most cases, eighty percent of what you hear

898
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 3: is just.

899
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: Noise, right, and already in stock prices.

900
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's there. It's like twenty percent actually matters.

901
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 2: You know.

902
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: I said, to be a good investor, you have to

903
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: be good at knowing what you don't know. But I

904
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: also think you also have to be good at taking

905
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: emotion off the table. You could see a lot. Obviously

906
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 3: we're pretty divided country politically. I always say like, don't

907
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: bring that to your investing, right, So it's more like,

908
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 3: take the emotion out, don't let the noise suck you in,

909
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: go back, and it's about the fundamentals.

910
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 4: It's about what's in front of you. It's about your outcomes.

911
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: I love the concept of knowing what you don't know.

912
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: Let's address that. What are investors not talking about, not

913
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 2: thinking about? But should what topics, assets, geography, policy, data points, whatever,

914
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: What is not at the forefront of many investors' minds,

915
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: but maybe is getting overlooked.

916
00:46:59,680 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 4: You know.

917
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: Well, and again this is going to sound very simple,

918
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: and it's been talked about since the beginning of our markets.

919
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: You know, it's true diversification. And again it sounds simple,

920
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: but it's not because you know, the old diversification is

921
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 3: that seventy thirty, sixty forty stocks bonds. The markets are

922
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: a lot more complex and sophisticated. That idea of having

923
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: that conversation now around, Let's talk about what I'm trying

924
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 3: to accomplish. Not Hey, I think large caps are hot now,

925
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 3: so I'm going to put you in them. Hey, you know,

926
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: you see technology stocks. I think technology is going to

927
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 3: do really good. That to me is what's really being overlooked.

928
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: Is again where I know a lot of people sit

929
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: down with their advisors and they're getting that academic you know,

930
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 3: dissertation on you should be diversified.

931
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 4: This is why.

932
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: This is how, But often the conversation falls right back

933
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: to is it large caps, small caps?

934
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 4: Is it tech stocks? Is it banks? Is it financials?

935
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,479
Speaker 3: Like that's not the right conversation, even if it alts

936
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 3: for public it's it's everything.

937
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 4: It's all of that, and it's using technology and solutions

938
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 4: and packages to create the right construct for individuals.

939
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense to me. I only

940
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: have you for a couple of more minutes, So let's

941
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: jump to our speed round our favorite questions we ask

942
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: all our guests, starting with who were your mentors who

943
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 2: helped shape your career?

944
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 4: You know, I've had so many, and I'll tell you

945
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 4: you know, they started with family members. I've had professors.

946
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 3: I've had, you know, the dean of the business school

947
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: and then not in college I felt like was a

948
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 3: mentor to me. I have my previous bosses that I

949
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: still stay in touch with and try to have lunch

950
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: and dinner with. So I have many people that I

951
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: can that I can kind of think.

952
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: Huh, that's very nice. Let's talk about books. What are

953
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 2: some of your favorites? What are you reading right now?

954
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 4: You know there's I'm not a I'm not a fixing us,

955
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 4: so most of what I read is nonfixtioning.

956
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 2: I love all I'm the same way.

957
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: I love all the I love all the Michael Lewis's books.

958
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 3: Recently read The Boys in the Boat. So I just

959
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 3: love the story about people, and I love I love

960
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 3: reading about books that you know you see perseverance in

961
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 3: human beings. Right now, I'll tell you I'm not reading

962
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: anything right now. I'm getting ready to read something and

963
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if it's going to stick. But I've been

964
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: hearing a lot about The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Oh sure,

965
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 3: And I made the comment around eighty percent of things

966
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 3: you hear as noise. My understanding is that book has

967
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 3: a lot about that in there, of like what you

968
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: should really spend your time thinking about. So I was,

969
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 3: I was that synopsis, and I've heard two people now

970
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: mention it. So I said, I'm getting ready to read that.

971
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: Let me bastardize that for you and say. What I

972
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: took from that was recognize what's in your control, and

973
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: that's what you focus on. What the FED is going

974
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: to do we can't control. Don't lose sleep over it.

975
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: Accept it. It's gonna be what it's going to be.

976
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: But focus on the things you can control you can change. Really,

977
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: it has absolutely stood the test of time. And if

978
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: you're a Michael Lewis fan, I'm gonna self promote his

979
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: most recent book that just came out, Who Is Government.

980
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: We did a live Masters in Business in April, and

981
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: I want to say the ratio of me speaking to

982
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: him was probably three percent to ninety seven percent. For

983
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: ninety minutes, he just regaled the audience with stories and

984
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: had people in stitches, absolutely hilarious stories about Billy Bean

985
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: and Brad Pitt. Tears down people's face.

986
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 4: I'm going to go listen to that. I'm going to listen. Yeah. Absolutely.

987
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 2: If you're a Michael Lewis fan, I think I've interviewed

988
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: him ten twelve times. That's my favorite interview. I heard

989
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: stories I never heard before he was his book.

990
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 4: His books ruined.

991
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: All the movies that have come out off of his books,

992
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 3: they none of them come close in my opinion to

993
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 3: the actual book.

994
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 2: So I agree with you. The one that's closest is

995
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: Moneyball is at least listen the Big Short. I love

996
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 2: the book. The movie wasn't bad. The blind Side the

997
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: movie wasn't bad, but Moneyball really captured the moment of.

998
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 4: I agree that money Ball is probably the closest you

999
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 4: got to the book.

1000
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that. What about streaming, what are

1001
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: you watching on Netflix or Amazon Prime? Or what podcasts

1002
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 2: are you listening to?

1003
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's very similar to kind of the

1004
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: whole nonfiction thing. I'm a big fan of documentaries on

1005
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 3: on Netflix. So there's two things that I'll kind of

1006
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: do on streaming. It's it's watching The Men Who Built America,

1007
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 3: which is a great documentary. It just again it has

1008
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 3: you know, the Jp Morgan's of the world, the Carnegie

1009
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: of the World, Rockefellers, and Vanderbilts. But what it shows

1010
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 3: you is the tremendous amount of risk that these individuals

1011
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 3: took and what was a very different.

1012
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 4: Time in America.

1013
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 3: But I love I love the documentaries and then and

1014
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 3: then shows What will Happen is I don't watch a

1015
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: lot of TV. I will watch sports, but I'll hear

1016
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 3: things like Breaking Bad. Everyone talked about it. I was like,

1017
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, I'm watching it ten

1018
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 3: fifteen years after the fact.

1019
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 4: And then that led me to say, hey, there's this

1020
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 4: show Better Call Saul.

1021
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 3: So I just went through the whole, not just went

1022
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 3: but you know, I've been going through the I went

1023
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 3: through Breaking Bad and then like Better Call Saul. And

1024
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 3: so the only way I watch shows now is well,

1025
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 3: they came out five seven years ago, and now I'll

1026
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 3: go in and be like, Okay, I'll dig in.

1027
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 2: So I have two things for you. We saw Madmen

1028
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: during the pandemic. I never saw a single episode when

1029
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 2: I was on TV, like, Wow, this is amazing TV.

1030
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 2: And if you're a documentary fan, the Billy Joel documentary,

1031
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: I saw Joe. We're like three quarters the way through.

1032
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: It's it's just amazing.

1033
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: And I'm a big Billy Joel fan, And yeah, I

1034
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 3: thought it was. And again it's to me, it's just

1035
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 3: it's history and people, right. You just kind of just

1036
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 3: love learning about people. And then especially for me, it's

1037
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 3: I'm in awe of folk of people who could do

1038
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: things I can't write, like, I'm in awe of a

1039
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 3: billy Joel when you hear about his process and what

1040
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: he does, and you're like, it's hard not to get inspired.

1041
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 2: By absolute hundred percent. Our final two questions, what sort

1042
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: of advice would you give to a recent college grad

1043
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: interested in the career in investing?

1044
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 4: You know the advice I give everybody coming out of school.

1045
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 4: And you know, I think they're waiting to hear for

1046
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 4: some kind of special nugget on how they're going to

1047
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 4: get ahead doing models or what deals, And I'm like,

1048
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 4: do do the easy things really well? Like I did

1049
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 4: this intuitively not knowing how important it was, which was

1050
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 4: I came into Wall Street. You know they're not going

1051
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 4: to give I was fresh out of school. They weren't

1052
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 4: going to give me a big client. They weren't give

1053
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 4: me a big model. But you know what if someone

1054
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 4: said I need copies, I ran and did copies. You

1055
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 4: know I could do that that I can do, Hey, book,

1056
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 4: book a restaurant for a client dinner. Hey, don't worry

1057
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 4: about it. I got it.

1058
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: So to me, it's like early life is never going

1059
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 3: to be that easy in your career than when you're

1060
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: first out of school. Don't come in day one thinking

1061
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 3: about how do I get on, how do I start

1062
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 3: traveling and meet clients and work the big deals. It's

1063
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: like do the little things really really well? That is

1064
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 3: how they're going to be able to judge you early on.

1065
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 2: Good advice And our final question, what do you know

1066
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: about the world of investing today? You wish you knew

1067
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 2: thirty five or so years ago when you were first

1068
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: starting out.

1069
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it goes back to the when I

1070
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 3: start I first started learning those lessons of don't pay

1071
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 3: attention to the noise, pay attention to what really matters,

1072
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: so you know earlier on. It's hard not to get

1073
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 3: emotional about investing sometimes, it's a hard even not to

1074
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 3: get completely kind of you know you and I watch

1075
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,959
Speaker 3: for this in RPMs, like pms can fall in love

1076
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: sometimes even with companies, stocks and even management teams that

1077
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 3: ability to now say hey, and all these cases be objective.

1078
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: Tell remind yourself, be good at knowing what you don't know,

1079
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: Take emotion off, focus on what really should matter, not

1080
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: all the noise that's surrounding it.

1081
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 2: So interesting, jose thank you for being so generous with

1082
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: your time. We have been speaking with jose Manaiah. He's

1083
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, managing

1084
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: two point two trillion dollars. If you enjoy this conversation, well,

1085
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 2: be sure and check out any of the five hundred

1086
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 2: and fifty we've done over the past eleven years. You

1087
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: can find those at Bloomberg iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever

1088
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts from. Be sure to check out

1089
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: my new book How Not to Invest The ideas, numbers,

1090
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: and behaviors that destroy wealth and how to avoid them

1091
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Speaker 2: How Not to Invest at your favorite bookseller. I would

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Speaker 2: be remiss if I do not thank the crack team

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Speaker 2: that helps put these conversations together each week. And I

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Speaker 2: really mean this. Alexis Noriega and Anna Luke are my producers.

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Speaker 2: Sean Russo is my researcher. Sage Bauman is the head

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Speaker 2: of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Retaults. You've been listening

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Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.