1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Shout out to our number 4 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: one super producer, Mr Max Williams. There we go. Yeah, 5 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: he's looking looking like a real snack today. Uh. Also, 6 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm being god I sounded it was. It's like a 7 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: cartoon where where all of a sudden, Max just looks 8 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: like a roasted chicken kind of lovering, you know, down 9 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: But then I'm not quite sure am I hungry or 10 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: am I horny? Unclear? Unclear? In the original cartoon? Yeah, 11 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: mutually exclusive. Yeah, so I've been your knowl We are 12 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: exploring something that's been a personal passion for all three 13 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: of us, uh separately, way before we ever stumbled into podcasting, 14 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: and that is missing media. Lost media. We're in an 15 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: age where there's more just media in general than ever 16 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: before throughout the entirety of human history. It is getting 17 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: a little bit ridiculous. But along the way, a lot 18 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: of things have gotten lost. This is part of a 19 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: continuing series. Our research associate, doctor Zach is also really 20 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: excited about this. One night over slipped down a doctor appeared, 21 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: but This is no normal doctor. Who's there. It's Zach 22 00:01:53,840 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: Zach the doctor named Zach, and he's here to fill 23 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: your scraps knowledge. Pet is cat teaching history books and stuff. Oh, 24 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: let's go with other things. Yeah, that'll work, Zack, And 25 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: I think we begin it in a way that everybody 26 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: can identify with. Actually I almost texted you about a 27 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: related question off air, No, but I didn't want to 28 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: bother you over the weekend. You ever get the thing 29 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: where you're like, I kind of remember that song or 30 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: there's a scene in a movie that I remembered. I 31 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: really want to figure out the name of it, but dad, 32 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: gumme it. I've searched everywhere. My Google food is pretty 33 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: good and I still can't find this. Well. First of all, 34 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: for me, sometimes those are false memories. Uh, And I 35 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: think you know, the Mandela effect is strong with many 36 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: of us. Where my girlfriend once was like, we were 37 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: talking about the movie Headwig and the Angry and she 38 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: described I'd this scene and I was like, that sounds awesome, 39 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: but that wasn't in that movie. She goes, oh, no, 40 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: it was. No, it definitely was, and we we had 41 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: to like watch it together. You know, it's no that 42 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: must have been a special edition or something, because I 43 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: was definitely in there. And you know, a friend of 44 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: the show, the creator of that of that movie, John 45 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: Cameron Mitchell, mentioned it to him. Is like, no, it 46 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: never happened. But to your point, then yes, there certainly 47 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: are things that either I hit the cutting room floor 48 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: and aren't archived past a certain point, or maybe you 49 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: caught it in a DVD version that was never reissued 50 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: again and now you can't find that particular copy anymore. 51 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: You recommended a movie to me a for spooky season, 52 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: which I love, the Tale of Two Sisters. Not streaming 53 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: anywhere anymore nowhere, it's tough. I've got the I've got 54 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: the DVD if you want. It's not too late. We 55 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: still got a little Halloween time. Yeah, so I'll bring 56 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: that over. Fabulous, fabulous, scary and genuinely scary movie. You 57 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: guys want movie. I really wish I could find a 58 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: copy of what shas Am. I know Shazam is a 59 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: real movie, and I want to see it. I think 60 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: you mean, I think you mean Kaboom, she zoom that 61 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: SHA's am. It is a real movie. I remember watching 62 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: that in Detroit as a kid with my brother. Is 63 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: that the one where the Genie is the annoying house 64 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: guest with Phil Hartman. Well, so there is, because because 65 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: I was with sin Bad that movie really exists. I 66 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: I know it doesn't. Checkout Gaslighting the world right now? 67 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: The world is gaslighting meat. No, Max, it's not. Gaslighting 68 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: is the thing you made up because you're crazy and scene. 69 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: I literally have a gaslight anthem poster right behind me. 70 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: So check out check out our stuff. They don't want 71 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: you to know episode all about the Mandela effect, but 72 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: you see this conversation. The three of us are pretty 73 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: good friends, and even we don't agree on things like this. 74 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: That's one of the most fascinating and infuriating things about 75 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: what we call lost media. The dry definition is it's 76 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: anything that was once made for public broadcasts but it 77 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: no longer exists, or urban legends of media that may 78 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: have existed at one point. And we had we had 79 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: a great conversation in our pitch meeting about this for 80 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: a while. Our pitch meetings are great. I think one 81 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: day we can record those if we ever need an episode, 82 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: But uh, a lot, we'll need to censor a lot. Yeah, yeah, 83 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: because I come in high else, Yeah, so uh so 84 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: let's see, um one example is uh fairly recent, right, 85 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: the sci fi series Doctor Who. Like to be clear, 86 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: we're not talking about old broadsheets and news sprint that disappeared. 87 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: We're not necessarily just talking about like lost no levels, 88 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Who was on TV. Yeah, and you know, I 89 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: mean archiving certainly is a very very important UM discipline 90 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: and an art unto itself, you know, just to make 91 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: sure to preserve you know, historical things, historical media obviously, 92 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: all those kinds of things very very important. But when 93 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: you have things that are in their very nature ephemeral, 94 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: like certain types of film for example, or whatever it 95 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: might be that can degrade over time, if you don't 96 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: jump right on that and make archiving like a huge 97 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: part of your process, you will end up with lost things. 98 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: There are nineties seven lost episodes of Doctor Who, and 99 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, you know, oftentimes this can be be 100 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: the result of shoddy you know, archiving. It could be 101 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: a fire. You know, this is before we had digital 102 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: backups and server farms and you know, cloud storage and 103 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So if you if the building 104 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: was lost, then so so was the media. Um So, 105 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: if you've seen these ninety seven episodes of Doctor Who 106 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: like when they aired. Uh, then then you are among 107 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: the chosen few that will have to reserve replaying of 108 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: these episodes to your literal memory. Yeah, exactly, you know, 109 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: and this can happen also with content that has been banned. 110 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about stuff in the global West, 111 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: but make no mistake in eras of repressive governments or 112 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: authoritarian regimes. Lost media was erased on purpose pretty constantly. 113 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: So there they are accidents, just human error, and then 114 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: there are purposeful attempts to erase something from history. And 115 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of a lot of people would say, well, hey, guys, 116 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: that sounds weird because we're in the digital age. Everything 117 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: is up in the cloud, man, But not quite because 118 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: for a long time the cloud didn't exist. So let's 119 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: look maybe this time, let's look at early film history. Right, 120 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: those are the some of the most common pieces of 121 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: lost media. There's one in particular. Oh it's the vampire movie. 122 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: What it We'll get to it London at midnight, something 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: like that. There's a there's a vampire movie or a 124 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: creepy movie that I've been I've been trying to find 125 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: for years because I just couldn't accept that the last 126 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: copies were destroyed. But maybe we talk a little bit 127 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: about the era of silent films in particular, you know, 128 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: like um nos ferrato, all all those sorts of things. 129 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: But absolutely, I mean, you know, the era of silent 130 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: films uh span from about nineteen twelve to nineteen twenty nine, 131 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: and these were wildly popular to the point where they 132 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: were just being churned out. We're talking about, you know, 133 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: thousands of these films being produced within a relatively short 134 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: span of time, within you know, around around fifteen years. 135 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: We are talking in the neighborhood of eleven thousand silent 136 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: feature or films. But for reasons that that will become 137 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: apparent pretty soon, only about four per cent of those 138 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: eleven thousand films remain today, and many of them come 139 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: from a single studio, Metro Goldwyn mayor MGM, you may 140 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: know them as the Lion One. We're going to get 141 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: into why that is. There are a couple of reasons 142 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: in the first and I think one of the more 143 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: interesting ones is the nature of of of media itself, 144 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: the nature of what's the stuff that the film exists on. 145 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,479 Speaker 1: It is a physical uh, material. And while it represents 146 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: an incredible, you know, leap in human technology to be 147 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: able to capture moving pictures on literally a piece of 148 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: like sellotape looking stuff, it's a pretty imperfect medium, at 149 00:09:52,120 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: least the early forms of what we call film. Yeah, 150 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: nitrate film stock was the hottest thing in town. Unfortunately, 151 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: it was often literally the hottest thing because nitrate revolutionized filmmaking, 152 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: but it had one big disadvantage in the world of 153 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: material sciences. It is cartoonishly flammable. This stuff is so 154 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: flammable that it can burn underwater. So it's like mean nitrate. 155 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: When I hear nitrate, I think of like nitro glycerin, 156 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: which is also very unstable. I know it's not the 157 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: same thing, but you know, obviously there's there must be 158 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: some route to the two. Yeah, the this stuff eventually 159 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: ends up being discontinued by Kodak in ninety two, and 160 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: you have to be so careful with the preservation of it. 161 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: Humanity has learned the hard way to uh, how to 162 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: properly handle this stuff. As a matter of fact, if 163 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: you ask the Library of Congress right now, they'll tell 164 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: you that less than one percent of American silent films 165 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: survived today. Uh, and only like half of the one 166 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: shot before survive at all, because even if it doesn't 167 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: catch on fire, the film will degrade over time. Yeah. 168 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: By the way, nitro cellulost which is just one of 169 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: the primary materials and uh nitrate prints is referred to 170 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: as gun cotton. Um. It is the first replacement propellant 171 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: for gunpowder essentially, So I mean we're literally talking about 172 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: very very combustible stuff. Uh. And then you're right, then 173 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: the deterioration. I think there was an advancement in film stock, 174 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: but even the next level kind of version of what 175 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: what they updated it to still had its own problems. 176 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Something called vinegar syndrome. Cellulose acetate film will start to 177 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: get really brittle, and you can tell when this degradation 178 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: is occurring because it smells like vinegar. So if you 179 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: walk into a film archive and you're like, WHOA, who's 180 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: cleaning with vinegar? No, that means the films in trouble. 181 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: There is a really cool label. I guess you could 182 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: call it reissue company that actually specialized in preserving kind 183 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: of schlocky horror and exploitation movies, like you know, things 184 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: like Amityville, horror and blood Delirium, Wolf of the Moon 185 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: like titles like that, the Werewolf versus the Vampire Woman, 186 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: and it's called vinegar syndrome. Then they specialized in, you know, 187 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: restoring these kind of like you know, sixties and seventies 188 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: and eighties kind of you know, chlucky horror and trash films, 189 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: but really really need company if you want to check 190 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: out some weird sci fi and kind of uh, very 191 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: bespoke b movies. So people are on a mission, right. 192 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: There was an attempt to replace cellulose nitrate film with 193 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: cellulose acetate, but it came with its own vinegar themed problems. 194 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: No matter what you do, after a certain point, you 195 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: can't save this stuff. So there was a ticking clock 196 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: and by the nineteen eighties experts were saying, look, the 197 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: majority of nitrate film will have decomposed by two thousand, 198 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: the year two thousand if we don't do something. So 199 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: they started copying it. They deep freeze it. Uh. And 200 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: what they're doing when they're deep freezing this, by the way, 201 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: they're not solving the problem. They're kicking the can or 202 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: kicking the film canister a little bit further down the 203 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: road to get some time to figure out how to 204 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: how to save these stories. You know, it's interesting about 205 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: that the idea of deep freezing it that is also 206 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: a term has kind of been co opted into data um, 207 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, archiving or whatever. So when you like have 208 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: a massive data banker, like an archive of whatever it 209 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: might be, let's say a companies, you know, video files 210 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: or the production company, if you put it into deep freeze, 211 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like it compresses it a 212 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: little bit. It makes it a little smaller, and then 213 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: you can like put it off site in a different place. 214 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: But you can't directly access said in the same way. 215 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: You have to like faw physical media in order to 216 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: access that. I think it just occurred to me. That's 217 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: like that's where that comes from. Yeah, yeah, that that's 218 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: a huge thing. You'll hear that all the time. We 219 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: hear it over in podcast land. But material science aside. 220 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: It is fascinating, It is dangerous. Love your nitrate, but 221 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: love it carefully because it could quickly become an explosive romance. Uh. 222 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: As much as we love that stuff, we have to 223 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: acknowledge another problem with silent film and why so much 224 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: of it is lost. This stuff was everywhere. Right. Uh, 225 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: this was a relatively short era of time, as you described, Noel, 226 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: but it was a very prolific time for studios, and 227 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: they didn't have any compunction about killing their darlings, you 228 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It was rare for a studio 229 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: to say we're going to save this silent film for posterity. Instead, 230 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: they would say, we can't get any more money from 231 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: this thing, throw it out. We we don't have enough 232 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: room in our in our film library. And then of 233 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: course think about it, your studio head in the air 234 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: of silent film, and then talkis come out. Now you 235 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: can hear, you know, the stars of the silver screen. 236 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: And this means from a financial perspective that these these 237 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: studio folks say, well, we don't need this, you know, 238 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: why would we will keep one? I guess if we 239 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: ever have a museum. But sometimes sometimes it requires a 240 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: bit of hindsights even appreciate a past version of a 241 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: thing that that then was improved upon. Right, It's like, 242 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, for the beam counters and and maybe even 243 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: the you know, the theatergoers, it's like, yeah, God, throw 244 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: all the silent films in the trash, because that was 245 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: antiquated and now we have something that's like next level. 246 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: But then enough time passes and you kind of realize, oh, wow, 247 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: that represented you know, a time and place, and we'll 248 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: never be able to get that back again. And so 249 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, that's when archiving becomes really important. And archivists, 250 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: i think, tended to look at these kinds of things 251 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: through a different lens than consumers, traditional consumers of media 252 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: or the folks you know with their hands on the 253 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: purse strings. Yeah, the purse holders, the puppet masters of 254 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: the purse. We're also looking at cellulois nitrate films in particular, 255 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: and they're saying, hey, these things are made with silver. 256 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: Why don't we just melt it down and we can 257 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: save a little on the back end, uh, you know, 258 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: from our silver budget. So so Samuel Goldwyn of the 259 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: film students we were describing, the infamous Samuel Goldwen. Uh, 260 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: he was asked once upon a time about the destruction 261 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: of sets on the studio back lot he had taken over. 262 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: The Museum of Modern Art Film Library contacted him and 263 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: he said, look, you have to realize I cannot rest 264 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: on the low ls of the past and cannot release 265 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: trade issuans instead of current pictures, so they were mainly 266 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: focused just on current releases. And I think you make 267 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: a good point about the benefit of hindsight because they 268 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: their response would have been, you know, we're not a library, 269 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: we're not a museum, We're a working motion picture studio. 270 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: We want what's hot maybe, and they had a point. Yeah, 271 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, we've obviously got processes now 272 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: to submit things to the Library of Congress for archiving, 273 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, in in the National Archives and all of 274 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: that stuff. But you know that requires effort, that requires forethought. 275 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: You know, that requires someone caring enough to to do 276 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: the thing. And it's abmitute. And when you're just kind 277 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: of go go go, uh money, money, money and all 278 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: that stuff like you are in old Hollywood, those things 279 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: can can literally, you know, fall by the wayside. But 280 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, despite Mr Goldwin's you know, maybe proclivity for 281 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: smashing sets, as as we had mentioned or alluded to 282 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: the top of the show, it was the MGM Studio, 283 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: the Metro Goldwyn Mayor Studios that uh that did have 284 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: some forethought and decided, you know what, we think this 285 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: is worth doing and we're going to you know, make 286 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: an effort to preserve, uh, these films that wouldn't be 287 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: until decades later. So at this point, you know, the 288 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: Goldwin is sort of out of the picture, and we've 289 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: got some new, you know, more thoughtful folks in charge. 290 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: Perhaps no, because I jump in here for things. I 291 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: got something on that point in COmON Coston, so you 292 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: guys know, to all the ridiculous historians in this room 293 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: with us right now. I was on in Portland recently, 294 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: and in Portland I went and checked out two to 295 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: separate places. One was Movie Badness, in another place was 296 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: next Level Arcade. I think since you got photos of 297 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: this stuff. But what I found interesting with both those 298 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: places they weren't classified as like a for profit. They 299 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: were all nonprofit museums. Because that's like, it's these people 300 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: who had the dedication to be like, we have to 301 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: treat this as a museum, like well, obviously we want 302 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: people to come, like rent the movies or play the 303 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: arcade machines, because what's the point of just having that 304 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: you can't use them. But these are just independent people. 305 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: And it's a really tricky thing because to the point 306 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: that Golden was making, is there responsibility to save it? 307 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: Who knows, but it's like, I feel like saving this 308 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: stuff is super important, and so is it, uh, like people, 309 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: the fans of the stuff, is it our responsibility to 310 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: save it or is it partially responsibility of the people. 311 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know the answer to that, but I 312 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: found that really cool that when I was out there, 313 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: and like it's one of those things. Also, it's like, 314 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: how do we get more places like that because physical 315 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: media is going away obviously, like arcades, as you guys know, 316 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: are basically non existent nowadays. And so it's like watching 317 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: this stuff because it's so easy, because it's the mainstream stuff, 318 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: if it will survive because it's no but the smaller 319 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: stuff won't. So that's that's my five cents. And then 320 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: the question becomes too, is like just because it's old, 321 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: is it a value? Like does it what where? What 322 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: is it represent in the kind of continuum of culture? 323 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: Like you know, if you're a museum curator, you don't 324 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: put everything ever that existed in in the history of 325 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: art or civilization in the museum. That would be impossible, 326 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: but you pick and choose and kind of paint a picture. 327 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: So it's like you know exactly and curating that that 328 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: applies to film that applies applies to There's a really 329 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: awesome pinball museum in Asheville, And I bet you they 330 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: have some sort of nonprofit status too, because they've got, 331 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, placards on everything that like tells you about 332 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: the manufacturing of it, when it was made, you know 333 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: during what period, and you know what it kind of 334 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: sprung from and what was inspired by and stuff like that. 335 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: I love all this stuff. But yeah, yeah, and and 336 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: and then I mean, do you think it's up to 337 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: individuals like us, the people that actually kind of are enthusiasts, 338 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: or is the nature of commerce such that it's gonna 339 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: just kind of stamp that stuff out if it isn't 340 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: making anybody a buck, and it's just gonna be up 341 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: to people crowdsource this stuff. And is it eventually going 342 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: to be an uphill bad to the plant if people 343 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: are just going to kind of give up. It's up 344 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: to the passionate, you know what I mean ultimately, And 345 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: I know that sounds a little ted talky, but it's 346 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: very much true. Like I I love the pinball museums. 347 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: You guys are both named in my head their museums. 348 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: I also like places like the Neon Museum out in Vegas. 349 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: I love people who are incredibly passionate about very specific things. 350 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: If you know everything about Neon, lunch is on me 351 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: bro uh and I want to learn all all the 352 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: weird facts. But that's why we that's why we do 353 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: the stuff we do on Ridiculous History and the many 354 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: other shows were involved with. It's it is up to 355 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: in many cases, it's up to the really driven people 356 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: who are head over heels in love with the particular 357 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: art form or medium and don't need to make a 358 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: ton of money off of it, genuinely, you know what 359 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: I mean. It's kind of like how you know the 360 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: best bookstores you run into are the little family shops 361 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: where it's clearly somebody who just started a room to 362 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: house all their books that they couldn't fit in their house. 363 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: You know, their cats there, you know, they hang out, 364 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: they don't care if Yeah. So those people I think 365 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: are really the future of preservation. And when they team 366 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: up into nonprofits and foundations and issue grants, they can 367 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: do some truly wonderful things. They can fight against lost media. Unfortunately, 368 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: society just didn't get there in time because the odds 369 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: were stacked against silent film. I'm glad you mentioned grant 370 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: because that really is that's an important piece. When you 371 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: have an endowment, you know from let's say it whole 372 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: Hollywood kind of executive and there fin their state they leave, 373 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, an endowment for a very specific purpose, which 374 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: is archived. That's usually what it takes because there isn't 375 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: the whole hell of a lot of money to be made. 376 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: Even if you're like a passionate collector, you're only gonna 377 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: buy that that blu ray of of of you know, 378 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: Night of the Leapists, the one time you and you're 379 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, fifty other you know, nerd brethren or whatever. 380 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: These are not like big hot ticket you know, flying 381 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: off the shelves, uh, selling like hotcakes kind of situations, 382 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: like I said, the kind of stuff vinegar syndrome selves 383 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: or or maybe there's an actor that's such a big 384 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: deal that they hold some sway as to maybe the 385 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: films that they're in start to get paid a little 386 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: bit more attention to and treat it with a little 387 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: bit more reverence other than just you know, a lot 388 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: of those old silent films, they're like character actors that 389 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: didn't really become quote unquote celebrities. But then you have 390 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: someone like Mary Pickford. Yeah, Mary Pickford, Okay. Mary Pickford's 391 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: films survived a lot of them because of her own initiative. 392 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: She was proactive. She did this. The studio didn't do 393 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: this for her. She would send the films that she 394 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: started to the Library of Congress, and she didn't send 395 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: other films, mainly the ones that she started. And she 396 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: wrote this letter to them in and she said, I 397 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: wish to say to you how happy I am that 398 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: my pictures will be housed in the Library of Congress, 399 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: and how greatly I appreciate the honor conferred upon me 400 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: by a wish to have them there. And this goes 401 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: back to the idea of international film archives, US archives 402 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: all curating their collection. They had to make the call, right. 403 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: Curation is really um at At a very basic level, 404 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: curation is the act of building a narrative right in 405 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: a specific story about some part of history or science 406 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: or you know, if there's a frying pan museum, it's like, 407 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: what are the most influential pivotal moments in frying pan history? 408 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that, but that means that, 409 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, you can't have everything in the 410 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: museum because then it's just the Museum of Everything. Yeah, 411 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: it's just impossible. Uh speaking of everything, I got this 412 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: is more of a thing to talk about suthing I 413 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. But there's an incredible new documentary 414 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: on Netflix about the idea of infinity, and it has 415 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: really gotten me thinking about, like what is everything? What 416 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: is the nature of everything? And how is there a 417 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: finite amount of like stuff in the universe. When you 418 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: say the Museum of Everything, that's what I think of. 419 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: It's like a museum that's just like fractals that just 420 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: kind of just infinitely dumps into a black hole and 421 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: never really stops. Um. I wanted to add to that. 422 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: Mary Pickford was one of the original founders of the 423 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: Motion Picture Academy. Her endowments and philanthropy created numerous Hollywood 424 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: institutions kind of like around the idea of preserving the 425 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: culture and uh history and physical medium of of old Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah, 426 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: and the Museum of Everything really reminds me of this 427 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: excellent story about a library by Board Hayes. And in 428 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: this library, the story is really weird. It's just a 429 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: description of this endless library I want to go to there, 430 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: as Liz Lemon would say on thirty Rock. But barring 431 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: the world of fiction right now, humanity still has a 432 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: lot of constraints. And that's why things like the Motion 433 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: Picture Academy and things like these film archives played such 434 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: a role in preserving what we do have from this era. 435 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: And this is where we have to talk more about MGM, 436 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: because they really stand out when it comes to preservation. 437 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: They ponied up money, their own money from from the corporation, 438 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: and they preserved a hundred and thirteen silent films. Uh 439 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty significant chunk of silent film overall. 440 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: And uh, it wasn't just the films made by MGM. 441 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: They they preserved some of the films of their ancestor 442 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: companies and they started giving them to what was it 443 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: George Eastman House at first, correct, which is you know, 444 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: I think one of the Eastman being co founder of Kodak, 445 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: so again skin in the game, you know, in terms 446 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: of like the actual physical medium. So it's interesting that 447 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: this is the George Eastman House is one of the 448 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: largest archives and museums and collections of photographic history. Um so, 449 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: but this is they were already doing something along these lines. 450 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: In the thirties, they were giving prints or negatives for 451 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: these films, you know, to be archives. But it wasn't 452 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: until the sixties that they started a duplication program, which 453 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: is a big deal because when you make a duplicate, 454 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: you're starting that decay process from zero. Yeah, you're resetting 455 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: the clock on on that. Uh that that that slowly 456 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: degrading piece of of of ephemeral and once and shout 457 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: out to Ephemeral one of our favorite podcasts. Yeah, nice way, Max, 458 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: well done. Uh so the uh and and Alex and 459 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: Trevor is so the the process here makes a lot 460 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: of sense. They're doing their best to accurately reproduce a film, 461 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: make a duplicate of it in a less finicky medium. 462 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: And then once they got that preservation process down, they 463 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: take the nitrate master copy and they donated to the 464 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: Eastman Museum, which is legit it's the oldest museum ever 465 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: dedicated to photography. And right around like the sixties is 466 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: a big year for this in the In the a 467 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: FI American Film Institute is funded by the National Endowment 468 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: of the Arts, and they start placing other nitrate collections 469 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: with archives. Again, this is not really the stuff you 470 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: can keep at home, folks, right you you need a 471 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: dedicated spot for your horde of nitrate. So the Library 472 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: of Congress gets prints from Paramount Columbia Pictures, Warner Brothers, 473 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: they get some Silent negatives and and they also get 474 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: a few features from Reversal. The Museum of Modern Art 475 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: gets the Fox Studio nitrate prints, and then they spread 476 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: out to these other archives. And honestly, it's good to 477 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: decentralize this right, to have it in multiple archives, because, 478 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: like humans learned with the Library of Alexandria, keep all 479 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: your all your bits of media in one place, you 480 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: might regret it later. But I had an existential computer 481 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: meltdown crisis of epic proportions the other week, which you'll remember. 482 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: I had to skip out on recording because I thought 483 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: that my hard drive that I have like you know, 484 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: music projects, podcast back up all of the things on 485 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: had failed. And I realized it was something else that 486 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: I was able to fix. But the feeling of of 487 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: having potentially lost this just like years of work, you know, 488 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: of my life, uh, really kicked me into a reality 489 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: mode and I immediately invested in like a subscription online 490 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: um cloud backup service called carbon Nite, and we are 491 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: not sponsored by them. By it literally you know, you 492 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: can restore your stuff from the cloud. And also I 493 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: ordered a second drive that I'm going to have mirrored 494 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: to my original drive because that feeling is one of 495 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: the worst. Can you imagine if you were the person 496 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: that maybe was responsible for overseeing that that library of 497 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: Alexandria and then to watch it go up in flames. 498 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: I can't even handle the three novels I lost, Like 499 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: Mitch Hedberg, I just I have no option now but 500 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: to convince myself they weren't that good because I'm not 501 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: rewriting them. Or you can lie to yourself, like how 502 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: all y'all are lying about how Shazam is not a movie. 503 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: Come on, look at the link. Look at the link 504 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: I put in. Read that whole link. I read that 505 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: whole link. That's what I was doing when I was 506 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: quiet earlier in this episode. And yeah, you guys are 507 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: just gas lighting me. Look, we're gonna you know what 508 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: we should do. It's not that you can stay to 509 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: convinced me. Here's a more healthy way to do this. 510 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: Let's bracket the conversation out of respect for our friendship 511 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: and preserve our broship like it's nitrate film and instead, 512 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: let's reach out to sind Bad and see if he'll 513 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: just may hizam or if you prefer make another one. Okay, Uh, 514 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: what's he doing sim Bad right to us? We can't 515 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: wait to hear from you. Uh. We want to bring 516 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: this to reality. So these archives they're kind of fighting there, 517 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: fighting the good war against entropy, and they get films 518 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: from individual collectors, you know, a states of cinephiles, small 519 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: companies overseas archives, and they're trying to get titles that 520 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: would have been lost or at the very least not 521 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: available in the States. But they don't have like a 522 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: common rubric, right, they don't have a uniform code of 523 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: what to do. So they have different policies for collecting stuff. 524 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: They have different parent organizations, they have different financial woes. 525 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: And the five major U S archives that emerge now 526 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: that they all have different processes and they constitute the 527 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: national collection, it's difficult to say which archive has the 528 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: most titles or especially when it comes to silent film, 529 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: just because they were all going about the game so differently. 530 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: We know that again, foundations play a role. There's a 531 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: lot of philanthropy in this, right. This is not this 532 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: is not one of those charitable causes that people typically 533 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: donate a couple of bucks to write. It's not MPR, 534 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: it's not a Sarah McLaughlin pet drive, you know. This 535 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: is this is something where if you heard about it 536 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: for the first time, you would say, don't we have 537 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: people for that. Don't we have folks already doing that? 538 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Why do they need money from us? But thankfully a 539 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of pretty well healed film buffs 540 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: who played a big role in this, not just actors 541 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: like Pickford, but folks like David Woodley Packard, Yes, David 542 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: Woodley Packer and heir to the that printer fortune, Hewlett Packer, 543 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: Hewlett Packer, I mean, you know, and then they like 544 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: laptops too, but I think today they're mainly known for 545 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: their their combo printer, scanner fax machines. Um. But yeah, 546 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: he has air to that mass of fortune. And through 547 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: the David and Lucille Packard Foundation and then the pack 548 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: of Humanities Institute, he was responsible for a wealth of 549 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: of of archive of of archival activities. Also the Packard 550 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: Campus for Audio Conservation UM, which was built by the 551 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: p h I for the Library of Congress started you know, 552 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: opened its stores in two thousand and eight. With it 553 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: is really the height of of archival storage facilities to 554 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: make sure that all kinds of medium media could be preserved. 555 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: Because we think about these nitrate films right um, certain 556 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: conditions are going to you know, speed up or slow 557 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: down that breakdown. Yeah. Absolutely, And there's there's another transformation 558 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: that occurs in the world of archiving in the nineteen 559 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: eighties thanks to the efforts of one Sir J. Paul 560 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: Getty Jr. And that's a little bit of a tease 561 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: for an episode we have coming very soon. We can't 562 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: give you more info than that. We're gonna focus on 563 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: the good stuff right now. The film archiving so h 564 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: old JPG Jr. Funds a conservation center and new nitrate 565 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: vaults for the National Film and Television Archive over there 566 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: in the UK and in the US, more wealthy philanthropists 567 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: are donating additional funds for infrastructure, particularly folks like Celeste 568 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: Bartos or the Meyer Foundation, the Academy Foundation. There again, 569 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: they're fighting the good fight and they're getting films that 570 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: are American films from other countries this is truly a 571 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: global international effort. I think the largest collection of exported 572 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: American films came from a place called the now World, 573 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the film Movie Archive in the Czech Republic. I do 574 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: not none of us speak that language natively. Uh. The 575 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: foreign films are huge resource because they often have missing material, 576 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: right Like, if a segment of a film has decayed, 577 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: you can get another copy from someplace halfway across the 578 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: world and they might have that sequence. So of the 579 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: three thousand, three d and eleven US silent feature films 580 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: that survive in any form, even not completely, eight eight 581 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: six of those were entirely found overseas. Pretty neat stuff, 582 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: and I think it speaks highly of what US film 583 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: nerds can do when we're motivated. Oh yeah, I mean, 584 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: I think we've always sort of seen a bit more 585 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: appreciation for the art of cinema abroad, you know what 586 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: I mean. Like Hollywood certainly is you know, ground zero 587 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: for big blockbuster movies and all that stuff, and it's 588 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: big business there, and you know, but I do feel like, 589 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: you know, companies like Studio Canal, for example, which I 590 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: believe is based in France, there is just a little 591 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: bit more reverence for film as an art form abroad 592 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: in some ways than there is right here in America. 593 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean, look at you know, what they give out 594 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: oscars for. I mean they're usually, you know, they're fine. 595 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to you know, crap all the oscars entirely, 596 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: but it just seems like, you know, it's a little 597 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: more broad here. It's a little more designed to kind 598 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: of be an award show with like trotting out celebrities 599 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: and stuff, whereas you know, can and like the palm 600 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: drawer and things like that, like those are just they 601 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: are really truly looking for something very unique and like 602 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: very you know, cutting edge, and it's like, you know, 603 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: moving the art form in different directions. So that all 604 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: makes sense to me. Yeah, And you know, this is 605 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: not to say that the battle has been one or 606 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 1: that everything went smoothly. It wasn't all trumpets and angel 607 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 1: farts in the fight to save Silent Film. And we're 608 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: gonna pause it there because this is how we know 609 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: we're onto something with this series, folks. Lost Media has 610 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: already become a two parter. The first part of this 611 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: is already a two parter. We're doing a one A 612 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: one B thing, right, here and I couldn't be happier 613 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: about it. No, oh same. I have a problem with 614 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: what happens if we lose part one of this series 615 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: and it just jumps into part two. That's all people 616 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: ever here. We can never find it again. It's a mystery. 617 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: Will be perfect indeed so until we return with Part two. 618 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: Huge thanks to super producer Max Williams Alex Williams Hukomoss 619 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: theme and also the creator and uh the presenter of 620 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: and a curate tour of Ephemeral which we love very much, 621 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: which Max works on as well, and you'll hear more 622 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: about it in Part two, assuming both pieces of this 623 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: media survive in the meantime. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland, a 624 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: k a. The Quister, Thanks to Heves jeff Co, Christopher 625 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: Hasiotis uh and thanks to all. Thanks to all the 626 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: fellows cinephiles out there. This was a fun one. See 627 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 628 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 629 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.