WEBVTT - Don't Believe the [NFT] Hype

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg Views,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily Bloomberg. I heard

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<v Speaker 1>podcast It's Wednesday, August t n T a non fungible token,

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<v Speaker 1>largely digital obt s. What is the actual use case

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<v Speaker 1>of these decentralized assets. At the height of n f

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<v Speaker 1>T menia, everyone from athletes like Tom Brady to celebrities

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<v Speaker 1>like Justin Bieber seemed to be either buying or talking

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<v Speaker 1>about buying collections like Boardy Club. Non fungible tokens aren't

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<v Speaker 1>just pictures of monkeys, though, even if that's how most

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<v Speaker 1>people understand them. They exist on the blockchain, and buying

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<v Speaker 1>or selling them typically requires paying in some kind of

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<v Speaker 1>cryptocurrency like Ether. But all the link between n f

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<v Speaker 1>T prices and the prices of tokens like Ether isn't

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<v Speaker 1>always straightforward. It's true that n f t s haven't

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<v Speaker 1>been entirely spared from the chill of this current crypto winter.

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<v Speaker 1>For more on n f T s and how and

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<v Speaker 1>whether they're holding up these days, I'm joined by Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>reporta Pratana Pokash. N f T s fundamentally I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if you go back to the definition, is it's about

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<v Speaker 1>a certificated ownership prota. Welcome. Yeah, thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an absolute pleasure. We're gonna talk about n f

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<v Speaker 1>T s. Why are we going to talk about n

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<v Speaker 1>f T s. What's happening? Well, it is the hot topic.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been for a while, so there's just a

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<v Speaker 1>lot to unpack over there, so I'm excited, excited to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it. Excellent. I was reading your story that

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<v Speaker 1>you wrote for Bloomberg Quick Take, which I'd love for

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<v Speaker 1>you to just tell our listeners a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about what that franchise is, and a couple of things

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<v Speaker 1>jumped out at me that we will talk about. So

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for sure, I want to hear your perspective

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<v Speaker 1>on average n f T prices, how they're doing compared

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<v Speaker 1>to the broader crypto markets in this so called crypto

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<v Speaker 1>winter that we like to talk about on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, just a little bit of where

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<v Speaker 1>prices are holding up. What that might be about. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>Is it that there is this base of buyers that

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<v Speaker 1>really have strong conviction and n f T s. Is

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<v Speaker 1>there something else going on with tokens? So we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>into all those things. Tell me more about what quick

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<v Speaker 1>take is, all right, So quick take are an explanatory

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<v Speaker 1>type of I guess the pieces that we do at Bloomberg,

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<v Speaker 1>which aims to unpack some of the bigger concepts, things

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<v Speaker 1>that are happening in the world, or words that we

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<v Speaker 1>end up seeing a lot in the news but don't

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<v Speaker 1>entirely understand. So quick take helps break that down and

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<v Speaker 1>explain it all from scratch, just so you understand. And

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<v Speaker 1>so there's no jargon there, there's no complications. You just

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<v Speaker 1>take what it is and digest it in more platable language.

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<v Speaker 1>As you were proporting this out, given everything that you've

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<v Speaker 1>just said, what was like the hardest thing for you

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<v Speaker 1>to explain about how n f t S work Probably

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<v Speaker 1>the board apes, because I'm so struggling to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>it's all about. And I think that's what the whole

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<v Speaker 1>crypto world and the world of n f t s,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what it's been. I mean, it's been a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of explaining and it's been a lot of redefining at

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<v Speaker 1>various points in time. So yeah, it was quite a

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<v Speaker 1>quite a learning for me as well. Now when you

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<v Speaker 1>talk about board apes, so what we're talking about here

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<v Speaker 1>is board Ape Yacht Club, which is probably still one

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<v Speaker 1>of the single most successful, definitive coveted choose your adjective

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<v Speaker 1>here collection of non fungible tokens ever to have been created.

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<v Speaker 1>What about these n f T s in particular were

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<v Speaker 1>so interesting to people? Like? Were they expensive? Were they

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<v Speaker 1>were were the exclusive? Was it some combination? It was

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive and it was also something so different that people

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<v Speaker 1>had never kind I've seen before. We saw a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of celebrities buy into this trend. And what happens is

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<v Speaker 1>you want to see a lot of public people, public

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<v Speaker 1>personalities take two n f T s. It somehow lends

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<v Speaker 1>it a legitimacy that everyone wants to be in on

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<v Speaker 1>as well. So I guess a combination of those things

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<v Speaker 1>and and just this access to a more exclusive club

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<v Speaker 1>just created a sense of hype because the moment you

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<v Speaker 1>buy a board Ape, you you get access to a

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<v Speaker 1>discord server specifically for members of this board Ape Yacht Club.

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<v Speaker 1>And the discord server is like video games lack. Yeah, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's how I think of it as well. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the I mean, I can't imagine what must be

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<v Speaker 1>going on in that chat but that's the closest I

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<v Speaker 1>can think of. But yeah, I think this, this whole

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<v Speaker 1>sense of an exclusive access or special ownership is what

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<v Speaker 1>got a lot of people interested in it. But what

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<v Speaker 1>do you actually own? You own the anim nation of

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<v Speaker 1>the board ape, so you get to customize it however

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<v Speaker 1>you want, maybe put a blonde wig on the on

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<v Speaker 1>the ape, or color the skin differently, or whatever it

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<v Speaker 1>is that you want to do with it. But you

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<v Speaker 1>just own the animation of that. And that's pretty much it.

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<v Speaker 1>So does the Is the n f T the ape

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<v Speaker 1>or is it the right to own the ape? I

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<v Speaker 1>want to say both, because n f T is fundamentally

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you go back to the definition, is

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<v Speaker 1>it's about a certificate of ownership. I guess that's the

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<v Speaker 1>easiest way to put it. It's the ownership do that ape,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess in this particular context. But if we talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it more broadly, it's it's certificate of ownership for

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<v Speaker 1>any work of art, maybe even a tweet. Sometimes that's

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<v Speaker 1>what you're really paying the price for, which is interesting

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<v Speaker 1>because one of the in the in the sort of

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<v Speaker 1>the earlier days of board ape, there were people who

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to figure out do they own the rights

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<v Speaker 1>to this particular print or do they actually own the

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<v Speaker 1>underlying intellectual property of that ape? Would they be allowed to, say,

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<v Speaker 1>turn that ape into a movie or you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>a character, or print a line of T shirts associated

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<v Speaker 1>with it? And I think when we're talking about n

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<v Speaker 1>f T s, one of the things that's always important

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<v Speaker 1>is to remember that these are in addition to being

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<v Speaker 1>apes and additions being certificates of authenticity or ownership, they're

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<v Speaker 1>also contracts. And so with contracts you have, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>parties to an understanding buyer, seller, creator, recipient, and then

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of jargon that defines what you, as the

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<v Speaker 1>person who owns or has made that thing, can actually

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<v Speaker 1>do with that thing at the end of it. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you found that people understand all of the legal ease

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<v Speaker 1>that is sometimes associated with these things. Maybe there's a

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<v Speaker 1>fraction of people who do, but I think a majority

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<v Speaker 1>of people probably don't. I think there's a great deal

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<v Speaker 1>of mob mentality attached to just this n f T market,

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<v Speaker 1>because you see someone do it, and then you see

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<v Speaker 1>someone who's super famous do it, and you want to

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<v Speaker 1>do it as well. So I think that there's not

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of thought into this sometimes. Of course, I

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<v Speaker 1>I want to completely credit all the investors have thought

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<v Speaker 1>about this and their research, did their research and want

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<v Speaker 1>to diversify their portfolio and decided to invest in n

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<v Speaker 1>f t s. But of course there's a fair deal

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<v Speaker 1>of buzz and and just like social you know, hype

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<v Speaker 1>as they put it, um, So I don't think everyone

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<v Speaker 1>is completely educated about the legal technicalities of it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna ask our listeners. If you're a person

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<v Speaker 1>who owns an n f T and you have read

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<v Speaker 1>all of the terms and conditions associated with that n

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<v Speaker 1>f T as well as the platform that you bought

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<v Speaker 1>it on, please email us. I was very interested in

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<v Speaker 1>hearing from you and what that experience was like and

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<v Speaker 1>how many years you spent in law school. Definitely, so

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<v Speaker 1>if we were having this conversation seven or eight months ago,

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<v Speaker 1>we would be talking about a very different vibe, right

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<v Speaker 1>we would. We would be the beginning, maybe the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of the hype cycle. There would be people showing up

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<v Speaker 1>on Good Morning America or the Today Show talking about

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<v Speaker 1>their their n f T s. People would be trying

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<v Speaker 1>to like your friends would be like, Hey, check out

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<v Speaker 1>this really cool collection and you can get into it

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<v Speaker 1>super early. Now we're having a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>different conversation. We're having a conversation where it's like, how

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<v Speaker 1>prices have come down. There's still a degree of enthusiasm,

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<v Speaker 1>especially among like certain artists, certain creators, But the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, Tom Brady with laser eyes pitching you

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<v Speaker 1>on his n FT platform autograph energy of several months

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<v Speaker 1>ago is not quite the same what's been going on.

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<v Speaker 1>I think for this we need to maybe rewind a

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<v Speaker 1>little to the Terra Luna collapse. How do you make

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<v Speaker 1>up what's happened with Terra and what it says about

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<v Speaker 1>the future of quote unquote stable. I'm really curious about

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<v Speaker 1>the responsibility of the tarot ecosystem now that so many

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<v Speaker 1>people have lost money. Is it completely invest at your

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<v Speaker 1>own will here or are there going to be chances

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<v Speaker 1>to recoup some of these losses in any fashion they

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<v Speaker 1>own action. First of all, this is a very bumpy

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<v Speaker 1>story that we're looking at here right now. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin and it's not stable. What is al risk

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<v Speaker 1>for this stable coin as it looks to shore up

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<v Speaker 1>if pegged to the dollar? But the question is does

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<v Speaker 1>the stable coin survive at the end. I guess n

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<v Speaker 1>f T was pretty much got in that storm and

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't have an escape from there. And what that

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<v Speaker 1>crash did above all was that it shook investor confidence

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<v Speaker 1>because it was unprecedented and it basically put the whole

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<v Speaker 1>cryptosystem in jeopardy, or at least was perceived to put

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<v Speaker 1>the whole crypto system in jeopardy because of that loss

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<v Speaker 1>of confidence. Yeah, definitely. It was one of the first

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<v Speaker 1>really big holy shit moments where are allowed to swear

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<v Speaker 1>on the podcast in this particular cycle of crypto um

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<v Speaker 1>And what I mean my that is, you know a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people who owned tokens, whether Luna, whether Terror,

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<v Speaker 1>whether others, and n f T s had not been

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<v Speaker 1>in crypto a very long time, right, Like these were

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<v Speaker 1>folks who came into the space three maybe five years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't have the memory of the previous time these

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<v Speaker 1>things had happened, and so it really it rattled a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people. And we're still dealing with the fallout.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back with more from Bloomberg Reposa Protana. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the overall market has been in a pretty depressed state

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<v Speaker 1>since then. In the aftermath of terror, Luna We've had

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<v Speaker 1>the blow up of the Three Hours Capital Hedge Fund.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of scrutiny and attention right now around regulation,

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<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen with some of the big exchanges,

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<v Speaker 1>Various big players in the space of filed for bankruptcy

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<v Speaker 1>or are generally distressed. So the vibes, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>vibes are a bit more stressed. Our n f T

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<v Speaker 1>is moving in the same direction as everything else, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>is there anything about this part of the ecosystem that

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<v Speaker 1>is holding up or behaving differently? Yeah, I think n

0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.680
<v Speaker 1>f t s have definitely suffered a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a blow given everything that's happening in this in the

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<v Speaker 1>broader crypto space. But that being said, there's still not

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<v Speaker 1>like rock bottom. They haven't hit rock bottom yet. You

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<v Speaker 1>still see n f t s grow in spaces that

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<v Speaker 1>had previously not been explored. I think more recently we

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<v Speaker 1>saw game Stop announced new marketplace for n f t s,

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<v Speaker 1>which is I guess a new development and something that

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<v Speaker 1>everyone is interested in knowing how that kind of grows. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>especially because the timing it was a little bit challenging

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<v Speaker 1>for definitely, and and so that calls to question whether

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<v Speaker 1>n f T s are going to see the same

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<v Speaker 1>kind of downturn that cryptocurrencies have probably seen. Your story

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<v Speaker 1>also mentioned the fact that opens which for a while

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of the biggest, buzziest, most successful n f

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<v Speaker 1>T marketplace they were like kind of like an eBay

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<v Speaker 1>for n f T s by volume, recently laid off

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<v Speaker 1>of their staff. You know, they said that they were

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<v Speaker 1>generally making this decision to in full awareness of market conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>Give me an example of how market conditions are and

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<v Speaker 1>n f T s right now, like how our prices?

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<v Speaker 1>How are sales? Yeah? So I think in June sales

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<v Speaker 1>were down on Open Sea, which, like you said, is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest marketplaces for n f T s

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<v Speaker 1>um and when we look at the floor price, it

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<v Speaker 1>was almost down, specifically for the board Aps Yacht Club,

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<v Speaker 1>which at one point was soaring it upwards of food dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>And when we talk about floor prices, we mean the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like the minimum listed price that something is

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.760
<v Speaker 1>currently available for sale. And n f T in this

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 1>collection is available for sale. Got it. So if you

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.720
<v Speaker 1>were a person who bought at K and you're hoping

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to sell at for entry K and now it's like ha, ha,

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 1>it's worth ad k. You were having a very hard period. Yeah,

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine what they must be going through, but

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>I do. I do think they're holding on because there's

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.319
<v Speaker 1>hope for n f d s. There may be hope

0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 1>on what basis like why are where are people finding hope?

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:16.679
<v Speaker 1>You see, n f T is being adopted in a

0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 1>number of different spaces, whether that's the metaverse, you know,

0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the all famous metaverse, or gaming. We're also seeing a

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 1>massive market in sports memorabilia, and so a lot of

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 1>what we experience, anything that we see or can hold

0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 1>in our hands, can be made into an n f

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 1>T today. The I guess the spaces that people can

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 1>grow this market in. It just keeps expanding um each

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 1>time something new comes up. That's certainly the pitch that

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.360
<v Speaker 1>we've heard. You know, we had Nicola Julia, who's the

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>CEO of so Rare, which does kind of fantasy sports

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 1>with an n f T element on the platform. We

0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.480
<v Speaker 1>just believe that an actually are the best feed for

0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.959
<v Speaker 1>game it TEMs, but we are. We don't see the

0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>world nifty in our product like it's just the best technology.

0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 1>We've spoken to the CEO of Royal, which is an

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 1>n f T platform for musicians. The most powerful aspect

0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.439
<v Speaker 1>of it is again the ability to know authenticate ownership

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 1>of digital types of assets. And that's something that we

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>really haven't seen in the past that we're going to

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.120
<v Speaker 1>see a lot of development in the future. A lot

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 1>of n f T c o s we've been to

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 1>feed I'm finding um and they've you know, they've said

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 1>something very similar, which is that we're just at the beginning,

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>right and this this latest collapse is more about a

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 1>shakeout in some of the more speculative applications maybe or

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the applications that aren't necessarily about collecting or not necessarily

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>about access to real world experiences in the way that

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.600
<v Speaker 1>you are describing it. Of course, they could all also

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>be wrong, So you know, this is this is certainly

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 1>going to be one of those stories that we're just

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>going to have to continue to pay attention to and

0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>see what happens. Yeah, and I think that along with

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 1>the laps that we were talking about, one of the

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 1>things that may have also factored in was just the

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 1>number of frauds in scams and allegations of insider trading

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>that was just being thrown around in this n f

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 1>T and crypto space that I think was bound to eventually. Yeah,

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.680
<v Speaker 1>just just make investors reevaluate what they're putting their money into. Terrific. Well,

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for being on the pod, Pratina,

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>and it is a pleasure to get to work with you.

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Thanks for having me. You can

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 1>find more of Pratina's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal, on

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot com or on Twitter. She is at prof

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 1>per Cash that is p r A r t H

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>p r a k A s H. On the next

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>episode of Bloomberg Crypto, n f T is really leaped

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>into pop culture prominence in but they've been around since

0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 1>at least two thousand fourteen, and despite current market conditions

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 1>which aren't great, new tokens and collections are still being

0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 1>launched every day, including by luxury brands like Gucci and Prado.

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Our next episode will feature a panel discussion that we

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 1>recorded during the Bloomberg Live Crypto Summit that was held

0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>in New York in July. You'll hear from industry leaders

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 1>like Avery Akin, Enya Vener three, Helen High of Finance,

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 1>and digital artist People Pleaser sometimes known as Emily Yan.

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and

0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio,

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 1>visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 1>suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 1>or find us on Twitter We're at Crypto. The supervising

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 1>producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky ver Galina. Our senior

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 1>producer is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon Burriro, associate

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>producer is Ty Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer.

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Original music by Lee Sidrin. I'm Stacy Mariashmal. We'll be

0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow. M