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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Did a glamorous Russian equestrian.

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Speaker 3: Take out a two million dollar hit?

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Speaker 2: According to the press, And you can take that with

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Speaker 2: a box assault.

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Speaker 3: She is a sex craze bisexual.

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Speaker 2: Who loved doing naughty things and being an icy bitch

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Speaker 2: to mail lovers. You know what, I don't care about

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Speaker 2: any of that. I care about the alleged hit and

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Speaker 2: is this guy still alive? I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 2: Fox Nation in serious XEM one eleven. You know it's

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Speaker 2: not every day you hear these words in one sentence.

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Speaker 2: Glamorous Russian equestrian accused of taking out a two.

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Speaker 3: Million dollar hit. You know what?

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Speaker 2: She obviously has not been listening to Crime Stories with

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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace on Fox Nation in series six M one eleven,

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Speaker 2: or she would know. You can get a hit man

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Speaker 2: for what, Jackie, what was the last one? For two

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Speaker 2: thousand bucks five hundred dollars?

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Speaker 3: Wow? A two million dollar hit. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of you, especially our behavior expert

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Speaker 2: and our licensed counselor, are going to be interested in

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Speaker 2: their men.

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Speaker 3: Of course, so they're probably gonna want to talk.

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Speaker 2: To you about the sex crazed by sexual aspect of this,

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Speaker 2: if that's even true. But I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: the hit.

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Speaker 4: And Remiley had lived a life of luxury in del Mar,

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Speaker 4: filled with multimillion dollar homes, price horses, and sports cars.

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Speaker 3: I've always wanted to start a show.

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Speaker 4: Forty two year old Tatiana Ramley captured the spotlight back

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Speaker 4: in twenty twelve for her involvement in a filled, multimillion

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Speaker 4: dollar horse show at the Delmar Fairgrounds, and tonight she's

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Speaker 4: behind bars now facing far more serious allegations of trying

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Speaker 4: to have her husband, fifty seven year old Mark Remley

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Speaker 4: killed for two million dollars.

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Speaker 3: They share are throwing around a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: And did you hear her voice? I always wanted to

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Speaker 2: put on a show. It sounds like John David and

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Speaker 2: Lucy when they would put on a magic show at

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Speaker 2: the Christmas gathering or the Thanksgiving gathering or the summer

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Speaker 2: gathering with all the Lynches and the Graces all together.

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Speaker 3: They want to quote put on a show, and then we.

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Speaker 2: Find out it's a very very expensive horse show.

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Speaker 3: Who has that kind of money to throw around?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think I might know the answer to that

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Speaker 2: take a listen to more from our friends at CBS eight.

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Speaker 4: According to the Sheriff's Department, Remley tried to hire a

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Speaker 4: hitman sometime between July first and August second, right around

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Speaker 4: the time she had filed for divorce. On July third,

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Speaker 4: investigators save they received a tip that Remley was trying

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Speaker 4: to have her husband killed one day after a suspicious

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Speaker 4: fire at their home run random repost so the Sheriff's

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Speaker 4: Department then launched a sting operation. An undercover detective met

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Speaker 4: with Tatiana at a Starbucks in Solana Beach, where she

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Speaker 4: allegedly provided detailed information on how she wanted her husband

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Speaker 4: killed and his body disposed of. She also allegedly brought

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Speaker 4: with her three additional firearms, as well as cash to

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Speaker 4: place a down payment for the murder, leading to her arrest.

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Speaker 2: I've got an all star panel, but before I go

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Speaker 2: to chief investigative reporter for Dailymail dot Comjensmith, Kathleen Murphy

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Speaker 2: is with me, high profile divorce lawyer. You can find

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Speaker 2: her at Ncdomestic Law dot com.

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Speaker 3: Kathleen Murphy.

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Speaker 2: I know you've handled so many divorces you can hardly

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Speaker 2: keep them all straight. But what is wrong with rich people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are people in this world aching out

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Speaker 2: a living. They don't have enough to eat. They have

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Speaker 2: what we call food and security. They don't know where

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Speaker 2: their next meal is coming from. They've got children that

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Speaker 2: don't have enough to eat, they barely have a roof

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Speaker 2: over their head. They go paycheck to paycheck. Hey, I've

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Speaker 2: been there, that whole paycheck to paycheck thing.

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Speaker 3: I've worked the three Johns. I get it.

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Speaker 2: So it seems to me, the more money people get,

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Speaker 2: the more miserable they are.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, I have a policy in my office that if

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Speaker 5: crazy walks through the door, they're going to walk right

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Speaker 5: back out.

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Speaker 6: I just don't have the time to deal with that

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Speaker 6: when we have children who really have needs, and this

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Speaker 6: couple didn't even have any children between them, and they're

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Speaker 6: acting like pure schools in North Carolina. You don't even

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Speaker 6: get to bring any of this shazazzle into an equitable discricca.

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Speaker 2: Is that a technical legal term? They did not teach

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Speaker 2: me either at Mercer Law School, the Walter of George

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Speaker 2: School's law or NYU Shazazzle is that.

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Speaker 3: One of your what that is a legal term North Carolina?

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Speaker 6: That is a legal term, And what may I ask?

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Speaker 3: Does shazazzle mean?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 3: Okay, got it, that's what that is. Okay, yeah, that

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Speaker 3: is a technical legal term. Thank you. I've got a

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Speaker 3: new word. Guys.

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Speaker 2: We are talking about a so called glamorous Russian equestion.

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Speaker 3: Boy, do I've got a surprise for you?

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Speaker 2: Who is accused of taking out a two million dollar

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Speaker 2: hit on her husband? And with me right now? Doctor

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Speaker 2: Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction at Angela Arnold md dot com.

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Speaker 3: What is wrong with rich people?

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Speaker 2: I didn't really get a good answer from Kathleen Murphy.

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Speaker 3: I learned a new legal term, chits azzle.

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Speaker 2: But what is wrong with them? A two million dollar hit?

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Speaker 2: I mean they've got money coming out of their rare ends.

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Speaker 7: So, Nancy, I believe that when people become so wealthy

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Speaker 7: that they lose their purpose in life. They have no

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Speaker 7: purpose in life. They can have whatever they want, they

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Speaker 7: don't have to wait for anything, and it changes your mindset.

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Speaker 7: When you don't have a purpose, you don't have to work,

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Speaker 7: you don't have to have delayed gratification, and it makes

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Speaker 7: people unhappy.

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Speaker 2: You know what, My grandmother said doctor Angie Arnold. Idle

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Speaker 2: hands are the devil's workshop. I mean, it's all wait

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Speaker 2: out right there in Genesis. And I'm certainly not a

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Speaker 2: Bible scholar, but I was very shocked when I learned

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Speaker 2: it says in Genesis that we are here to glorify

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Speaker 2: and to work, to toil toil.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a.

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Speaker 2: Reason for that, because apparently he was getting too much

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Speaker 2: trouble when they don't have a job.

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Speaker 3: So how did the whole thing go down?

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Speaker 2: Jim Smith joining me, Chief investigative reporter dailymail dot com.

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Speaker 3: First of all, is the husband still alive?

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Speaker 8: As far as we know, he is absolutely alive, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: But he can't be signed. We don't know where he is.

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Speaker 2: Wait, Jen Smith, haven't you been in my world long

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Speaker 2: enough to know when somebody goes missing there's a really

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Speaker 2: good chance they're dead. This woman's already allegedly taken out

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Speaker 2: a two million dollar hit on the and now we

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Speaker 2: can't find him. Why do you think he's alive?

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Speaker 3: Jen Smith? And I'd like to point out Jackie is furiously.

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Speaker 2: Waving a note at me put it back up, please

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Speaker 2: unless youve erace it that he and she's angry she's

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Speaker 2: angry this morning because this guy that we can't find,

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Speaker 2: Mark Rimley, inherited all of his money.

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Speaker 3: He didn't earn it. And I have to agree with you, Jackie.

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Speaker 2: There's a big difference when you are born into money

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Speaker 2: and when you have to work for it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're right.

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Speaker 8: I mean, normally, when we have attempted murder for higher

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Speaker 8: plout we have a missing independent victim, you would think

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Speaker 8: that they're in real trouble. The reason I say he

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Speaker 8: is missing is because before any of us learned to

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Speaker 8: grow this plawtntacy. Mark Bramley roared up in his ferrari

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Speaker 8: to his neighbor's host said, I'm having a seizure.

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Speaker 9: I need to go to the hospital. You need to

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Speaker 9: help me.

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Speaker 3: Wait.

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Speaker 2: He could drive his ferrari to his neighbor's house, but

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Speaker 2: he couldn't call nine to one one. I'm having a seizure,

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Speaker 2: is that what he said?

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Speaker 8: Many many quest students around the behavior of this couple.

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Speaker 8: Obviously he was taken to the hospital for medical care.

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Speaker 8: We know that he made it there, and we know

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Speaker 8: that he seemingly made it after that. It looks like

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Speaker 8: he's high tailed it. And I can't say that many

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Speaker 8: people would blame him given what his wife, Tasiata had

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Speaker 8: in store for him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we know he was at the hospital. We

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Speaker 2: know he was discharged from the hospital from his seizure.

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Speaker 2: I still don't understand why he drove to his neighbors.

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Speaker 2: Let me guess, is it a red Ferrari. I'm just wild, guess.

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Speaker 8: It's actually a black Ferrari.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, that was my second choice. That was going

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Speaker 2: to be my second choice, then neon yellow. So he

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Speaker 2: drives to a neighbor's house in his black Ferrari. He

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Speaker 2: tells the neighbor he's fully in charge of his faculties.

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Speaker 2: I'm having a seizure.

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Speaker 3: You know. I've got a friend, a very dear friend

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Speaker 3: who went to.

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Speaker 2: High school with and she has boys and they're all

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Speaker 2: brilliant Jackie, like chemical and scientific or issues.

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Speaker 3: It's not epilepsy, it's something else. One of her.

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Speaker 2: Sons is not allowed to drive, and as they're getting older,

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Speaker 2: that is really hard for him. They can fall at work,

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Speaker 2: they wake up, they don't know what happened. So if

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Speaker 2: you're having a seizure, you do not get in your

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Speaker 2: black Ferrari and drive to a neighbor's house and say

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Speaker 2: I'm having a seizure. That's not how that goes down.

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Speaker 2: So I don't believe anything he's saying either. Guys, I

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Speaker 2: want to bring in the rest of the panel, but

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Speaker 2: first take a listen to our friends at kg TV.

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Speaker 4: In her divorce filing, Remley accused her husband of being

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Speaker 4: physically and verbally abusive, allegedly putting a gun to her

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Speaker 4: head in one incident, as well as chasing her with

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Speaker 4: a knife and another. In that same filing, she claims

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Speaker 4: she is under extreme financial strain, adding quote she's unable

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Speaker 4: to maintain her realistic monthly expenses of just well thousand dollars,

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Speaker 4: much less than what she was accustomed to at fifty

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars, and her estranged husband, Mark Remley, has denied

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Speaker 4: his wife's allegations of abuse. As for Tasiana Remley, she

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Speaker 4: is being held behind bars with no bail.

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Speaker 10: The documents say she's accustomed to a luxurious lifestyle that

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Speaker 10: includes having bodyguardens, drivers, and a personal assistant.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on just a moment.

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Speaker 2: This woman does not have a job, but she has

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Speaker 2: a fifty thousand dollars a month lifestyle, with quote luxurious lifestyle, bodyguards, drivers,

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Speaker 2: and personal assistant.

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Speaker 3: Why does this woman need a bodyguard?

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Speaker 2: But that said again, the husband has does not denied

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Speaker 2: all of these claims of physical abuse and threats.

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Speaker 3: I'm just trying to figure out how the whole thing

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Speaker 3: went down.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Jenn Smith joining me, Chief reporter at dailymail dot com.

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Speaker 2: So she tries to hire a hitman. How does she

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Speaker 2: end up getting found out by police?

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Speaker 8: Well, not very clever moved by Tassi Aana Rambley. The

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Speaker 8: person that she confessed her plan to was a mutual

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Speaker 8: friend of the couple, who, upon hearing her intention to

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Speaker 8: have her husband murdered, he called the police. Then from

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Speaker 8: there the police initiated a sting operation and the intended

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Speaker 8: hitman nan see the person she thought she was going

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Speaker 8: to pay two million dollars to kill her husband, even

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Speaker 8: an undercover cop. That's how it's all unraveled.

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Speaker 2: Robin Driike joining me, behavior expert, former FBI Special Agent,

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Speaker 2: chief of the FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program and

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Speaker 2: author of Sizing People Up. This is an incredible book,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Sizing People Up a veteran FBI agent's

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Speaker 2: manual for behavior prediction. Hey, are you single, ladies, read

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Speaker 2: this book before you go on your next date. You

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Speaker 2: can find them at peopleformula dot com. Sizing People Up

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Speaker 2: a veteran FBI A just manual for behavior prediction.

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Speaker 3: I usually put it in a nutshell, Robin Drake.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know what somebody's gonna do, look at

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Speaker 2: what they've already done. That's just my general formula, Robin Drake,

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Speaker 2: What is wrong with these two people?

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Speaker 11: Well you hit it right there, and we'll riff on

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Speaker 11: what your other guests just said. And this is she's got.

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Speaker 2: A life arc of shizazzle mispronunciation place I believe she

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Speaker 2: says shiz azzle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, this is dazzle.

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Speaker 9: But it's these people.

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Speaker 11: You know, we're genetically and biologically coded to survive and

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Speaker 11: thrive in deprivation, believe or not, as biological organisms on

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Speaker 11: its planning. So when you have a when you have

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Speaker 11: abundance like they have, you get ultimately caught up in

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Speaker 11: the cult of more, and you're constantly wanting and craving more.

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Speaker 11: And my question throughout this thing, she's got a life

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Speaker 11: arc of really abnormal, unhealthy behavior of all these things

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Speaker 11: and violence and sex and drugs and rock and roll

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Speaker 11: and all that. But I'm really curious as to what

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Speaker 11: she was going to gain by killing her husband, because

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Speaker 11: she's using financial gains from child support and all these

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Speaker 11: other things. But always there's a motive behind Keilly's. A

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Speaker 11: lot of times it's life insurance policies and things like that.

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Speaker 9: But what I'm.

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Speaker 11: Really curious about is every other husband has a pre

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Speaker 11: nup that's been really rock solid against her, and so

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Speaker 11: she's really struggled at hers. I really want to know

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Speaker 11: why she wanted to have them killed. What was she

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Speaker 11: going to get? All her behavior throughout her entire life

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Speaker 11: has been self serving for herself, and I'm not getting

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Speaker 11: it yet.

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Speaker 2: I think I've started that by asking what is wrong

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Speaker 2: with these people? And frankly, that's not my concern. I'm

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Speaker 2: not a shrink. I don't need to know what's wrong

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Speaker 2: with them. I don't need to know why. The reality

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Speaker 2: is that when you are in court and you're trying

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Speaker 2: to prove a case why motive doesn't matter. Out of

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Speaker 2: the state never has to prove motive realistically, practically speaking,

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Speaker 2: a jury would like to find out why, because you

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Speaker 2: see these two come into court and you think, why

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Speaker 2: would she risk it all by hiring a hitman? So

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Speaker 2: you may want to know motive so you can tell

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Speaker 2: that to a jury, so that final piece of the

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Speaker 2: puzzle isn't missing. But I want to find out more

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Speaker 2: about these people and about the alleged hit. Now a

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Speaker 2: lot started falling apart after a failed horse show. A

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Speaker 2: failed horse show. Now, I grew up in farmland. My

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Speaker 2: grandparents had horses, and they were workhorses, not show horses.

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Speaker 3: So all of this is very alien to me.

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Speaker 2: I remember when I worked with Larry King, who helped

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Speaker 2: me a great deal. He was all about what was

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Speaker 2: the name of it, guys, you gotta look this up, Cindy.

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Speaker 2: It was like a certain dislay, but it was horses.

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Speaker 2: I think it started with.

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Speaker 3: A sea and it was amazing.

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Speaker 2: I recall I think we were living out in California

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Speaker 2: during Dancing with the Stars and we took the twins

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Speaker 2: to see this horse, certain disulay type show and I've

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Speaker 2: never seen anything. Yeah, Cavalia, that's it, thank you. And

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Speaker 2: guess I've got with me an equestrian specialists. But what

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Speaker 2: does that have to do with these two who were

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Speaker 2: in a whole heap of trouble. It's like two wet

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Speaker 2: cats and a barrel. Take listen our cut seventeen, ABC ten.

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Speaker 12: More than a month after the Valatar Show was abruptly canceled,

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Speaker 12: the Big Red Tent is still here at the del

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Speaker 12: Mar Fairgrounds parking lot, and tonight the show's producers are

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Speaker 12: facing a second lawsuit. Elite Show Services, a company you

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Speaker 12: might know from Chargers Games, where they provide security, says

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Speaker 12: Valatar producer Mark Rimley and his wife Tatiana, owe them

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Speaker 12: more than sixty five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 6: Elites.

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Speaker 12: Beef with the Rimleys actually goes back about four years,

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Speaker 12: but he says the Rimley's not only stiffed them on Valotar.

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Speaker 12: Elite says the couple has done the same thing to

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Speaker 12: them before.

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Speaker 3: Jasmth what is Valatar?

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Speaker 8: So Valatar would have been and was briefly the Ramleys

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Speaker 8: sort of per man version of the show that you

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Speaker 8: mentioned that you had seen yourself, Nancy.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 8: They decided that they wanted to create a sort of

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Speaker 8: version similar versions, but they wanted it to be raunchier.

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Speaker 8: So their idea was that they would gather horses, they

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Speaker 8: would gather kind of sexy acrobats and they would put

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Speaker 8: on this horror show that would rival what you saw,

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Speaker 8: which was actually created by one of the founders of

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Speaker 8: Sarcus Delay, so pretty lost the ambitions there that was Valatar.

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Speaker 8: It didn't last very long, I think maybe four or

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Speaker 8: five shows. And really the problem was that while Tatiana

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Speaker 8: might have been a horse enthusiast, she certainly bought some

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Speaker 8: or her husband's thought them for her. She knew nothing

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Speaker 8: about what it requires to run not just a show,

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Speaker 8: but a show involving animals. There were accidents on set.

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Speaker 8: Some of the horses ended up with broken legs, getting

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Speaker 8: tangled in carriages that she was trying to use in thralls.

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Speaker 8: You had experts warning her you don't know anything about this,

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Speaker 8: and her husband was the same. So the show didn't

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Speaker 8: last very long. But it might not come as a

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Speaker 8: surprise to you to learn she was the face of it.

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Speaker 8: She was the face that you saw on all the

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Speaker 8: posters advertising this horse show, and she.

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Speaker 9: Was the one who came out at the end of.

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Speaker 8: The show took a buy for the audience, even though

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Speaker 8: she really had no involvement in any of the stunt.

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Speaker 2: I could hear doctor Angela Arnold chopping at the bit

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Speaker 2: to scream out narcissism. But hold on, I want you

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Speaker 2: ought to know more facts about the I mean, what

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Speaker 2: a boondoggle. Just just think about how much college tuition

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Speaker 2: was Everything I think about? I think about, Okay, would

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Speaker 2: this be the twins college tuition? Would this be the

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Speaker 2: hilth and insurance? Do I really want it that much

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Speaker 2: that I have to pay this amount for it? When

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Speaker 2: I hear seventy thousand dollars and this amount and that amount,

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Speaker 2: that's how I look at it. I want you to

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Speaker 2: hear more about this so called horse show. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a lot more than that. Take a listen to

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Speaker 2: our friends at ABC ten.

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Speaker 12: Vallatar went dark in late November after just a few performances.

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Speaker 2: They did strand the performers, and they stranded the horses

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 12: A benefit show held in December raised enough money to

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Speaker 12: send all the performers and horses home.

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Speaker 10: During the show, she showed up one day with a

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Speaker 10: horse and was like, oh, look, I just got this horse.

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Speaker 10: I only spent seventy thousand dollars on him. The asking

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Speaker 10: price for the horse at the time had been thirty K,

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Speaker 10: so she managed to spend forty thousand dollars more than

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Speaker 10: the asking price, just because she decided she wanted that horse,

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Speaker 10: and someone saw a sucker written on her face.

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Speaker 2: I guess seventy thousand dollars for a thirty thousand dollars horse.

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Speaker 2: You were hearing Eric Martanovich with our friends at News Nation.

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Speaker 2: But now take a listen to Eric Martanovitch speaking to

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Speaker 2: that billboard Jen Smith was telling you about and she.

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Speaker 10: Wanted to She had a billboard for Velatar, the show

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Speaker 10: made with her standing there looking as sexy as she

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Speaker 10: could holding a pole, kind of looked like an ad

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Speaker 10: for a strip club. And she put it on I

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Speaker 10: five where he had to drive every day, so that

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Speaker 10: he would have to see it. So she definitely had

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Speaker 10: a little vendetta going. She obviously didn't like him, and

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Speaker 10: she wanted to show him how wonderful she was.

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Speaker 13: Doing without him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, with that in mind, I want to introduce you

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Speaker 2: to a very special guest, Bridget Brandon, joining us out

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Speaker 2: of Texas Horse Specialist. She is the president of the

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Speaker 2: Equine Expert. You can find her at the Equine expert

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Speaker 2: dot com. Bridget Brandon, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: When I heard that some of the horses fell with,

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Speaker 2: tangled up in carriages, and so forth. I mean, isn't

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Speaker 2: a broken leg essentially the kiss of death for a horse,

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Speaker 2: a show horse?

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Speaker 5: Well, it can be.

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Speaker 13: I'm not a vet, and there's been a lot of

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Speaker 13: new technology as far as medicine goes, but certainly with

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Speaker 13: the broken leg it can end a horses' athletic performance.

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Speaker 13: For sure, most of these horses were either stallions or geltings,

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Speaker 13: but certainly with the broken leg it could ruin that

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Speaker 13: horse's particular career and devalue the horse as well.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to what various guests and experts have

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Speaker 2: said that while she knew how to ride a horse,

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Speaker 2: putting on a horse show to the extent of something

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Speaker 2: comparable to Cavalia, that's a big deal.

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Speaker 9: That's a very big deal.

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Speaker 13: You've got to consider the betting, the footing, the feed,

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Speaker 13: the water, where going to practice, the conditions for the horses,

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Speaker 13: heat and air. There's a lot of planning circumstances you've

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Speaker 13: got to have that's available on hand. And you know,

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Speaker 13: in case an accident happens, like broken leg or an

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Speaker 13: injury of some sort horse colleges, there's just numerous things

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Speaker 13: that you've got to be prepared for. And it's one

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Speaker 13: of those industry you just don't If you don't if

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Speaker 13: you're not experienced in it, you just don't know what

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Speaker 13: you don't know. Many things could happen another thing.

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Speaker 2: Bridget Brandon with US Horse Specialists, the president of the

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Speaker 2: Equine Expert Bridget I am always fascinated by want well

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Speaker 2: many events in the Olympics, but I remember seeing I

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Speaker 2: think it was one of the royals competing in a

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Speaker 2: horse drawn carriage race. I mean we're used to, for instance,

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Speaker 2: the Kentucky Derby or various races we see on American TV.

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Speaker 2: We don't see a lot of carriage races. It's a

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Speaker 2: very very specialized sport.

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Speaker 13: It is a specialized sport and it involves a lot

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Speaker 13: of twist and turns and going around obstacles, and you

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Speaker 13: have to have very highly trained horses to do that

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Speaker 13: type of event, and you yourself need to be trained

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Speaker 13: as well.

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Speaker 2: Weren't there carriage horses in this show? To you, Jenn Smith,

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Speaker 2: there were.

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Speaker 8: I mean, whether or not they actually ended up using

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Speaker 8: them in the show, I'm not sure, but we know

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Speaker 8: that there was some sort of accident in the rehearsal

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Speaker 8: involving at least one horse, and that horse ended up

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Speaker 8: breaking its legs because they got caught in the contrapment

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Speaker 8: that they were trying to you.

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Speaker 3: So, what happened.

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Speaker 2: Did they just pull out leaks everybody hind right without

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Speaker 2: paying them.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's exactly what's alleged. And then what happened afterwards

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Speaker 8: were you know, a mon in of lawsuits. You have

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Speaker 8: these people who give up their time to do this,

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Speaker 8: they say no to other jobs, and then they end

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Speaker 8: up kind of high and dry. We know that Mark

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Speaker 8: and Tatiana and now they had tumultuous marriage. They ended

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Speaker 8: up staying together for you know, legally married around ten years,

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Speaker 8: but there were on again, off again there were separations.

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Speaker 8: There were you know, real gaps where they were not

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Speaker 8: a united front, and at least during one of those,

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Speaker 8: Mark said that he wanted to carry on with the

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Speaker 8: show and was going to deal with the experts himself,

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Speaker 8: putting Tatiana out of it. They then ended up back

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Speaker 8: together and Tatiana's back in the frame.

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Speaker 9: It was just a whole mess.

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Speaker 8: These were two people who did not know what they

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Speaker 8: were doing and clearly weren't prepared to listen to the

440
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 8: experts were telling.

441
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: Them all that money though Jim Smith, well.

442
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 8: Apparently it wasn't enough to put on what they wanted

443
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 8: to do. The experts that we've all heard from and said, yeah,

444
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 8: they had some money, but it wasn't enough to achieve

445
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 8: or pool off the level of theatrics and performance that

446
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 8: they were trying to achieve.

447
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: He had the money, millions and millions of dollars. I

448
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: don't know how much more he wanted to sink into

449
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: a horse show, but guys, they had more problems than

450
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: just money problems and horse problems.

451
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: Take a listen to our cut twenty four.

452
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 10: So in a seventeen I got a phone call from Mark.

453
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 10: This was after our business deals had failed miserably and

454
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 10: I didn't want anything to do with him, and he

455
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 10: was trying to get me to come down to San

456
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 10: Diego and hang out, and I couldn't figure out what

457
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 10: he wanted. Friend of ours was at my place and

458
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 10: we were talking about it, and I just brought it

459
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 10: up as a weird thing, that why was Mark bothering me?

460
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 9: And he immediately knew the.

461
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 10: Answer, and he said, oh, Tatiana wants to sleep with

462
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 10: you while he watches so Apparently they were trying to

463
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 10: get me to come down there and have sex with Tatiana.

464
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 14: Well Mark watched for install. The New York Post that

465
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 14: Mark and Tatiana Rimley were featured in the twenty seventeen

466
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 14: Showtime docu series Naked Sanctum, where the pair was seen

467
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 14: hanging out with fellow swingers. Appearing on the Showtime series

468
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 14: Naked Sanctum, where members of an elite sex club share partners,

469
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 14: Mark Rimley went under the pseudonym Vladimir and identified himself

470
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 14: as an entrepreneur. Rimley using the name Vladimir shocked many

471
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 14: people close to the couple. Tatiana has a brother named Vladimir,

472
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 14: the same brother she accused of sexually assaulting her when

473
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 14: she was a child.

474
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: You know, Kathleen Murphy, trial lawyer joining me out of

475
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: North Carolina. When you start a prosecution, you have to

476
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: go to some very dark places. I've been in every

477
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: strip club, male and female, in town, drug houses, flop houses,

478
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: houses for everybody is high on something and people are

479
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 2: over in the corner chasing the dragon. I mean, you

480
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: name it, been there. Some of it I wish I

481
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: couldn't remember.

482
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 11: Some of it.

483
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: I've tried to forget a lot of it. I've tried to.

484
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: Forget, but I'm trying to get in my head wrapped

485
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: around what I just heard from News Nation and Crime Online.

486
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: Did I hear Jen Smith that.

487
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: They wanted their friend Eric Martanovich to come down and

488
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: have sex with the wife while the husband watched?

489
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 3: Did I hear that that's what you heard? You know,

490
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: say much you're worried about it at all? Girl?

491
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: Did I also hear they were on Naked SNCTM. I

492
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: guess that's her sanctum on Showtime Naked Sanctum.

493
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 9: That's right.

494
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 8: They appeared very willingly on this pretty CD show that

495
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 8: all of the life of wealthy swingers that attended these

496
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 8: kind of more or meant to be exclusive sex parties.

497
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 8: Tatiana in this episode at least sporting dark hair. She's

498
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 8: sitting at a table, she's being caressed by women, and

499
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 8: Mark As watching with a kind of.

500
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 9: Excitive look in his eye.

501
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 8: They then give this on camera interview where he refers

502
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 8: to himself as Vladimir. Now, as you heard there in

503
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 8: the clincher's place. That's a very sick reference, given we've

504
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 8: heard a prior allegation against a brother of Tatiana's cold Vladimir,

505
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 8: who is said to have sectually abused her when she

506
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 8: was a child.

507
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 3: So she claims her brother sex abused her as a child.

508
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: And then when they're play acting at what was it

509
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: called naked sanctum.

510
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 9: Naked sanctom, he takes the.

511
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: Moniker Vladimir, knowing full well that she claims her brother

512
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: sex abused her. You know, Kathleen Murphy speaking of swingers

513
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: and rich people that don't have anything to fill their

514
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: time with, and what is this naked sanctum? I made

515
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: it very clear to my husband on day one, open marriage,

516
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: open casket done that said at all four words over.

517
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: I cannot get out of my head the case that

518
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 5: I had where the dad of the child was on

519
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 5: the opposite table for me, and I was representing the mother,

520
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 5: and the father said to the judge, and I had

521
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 5: no idea. He goes, well, she's my sister and our child,

522
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, And I almost.

523
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: Well, no, mody asked you that, Kathleen. We've got our

524
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: own problems dealing with this woman.

525
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: She's a Russian. Thank you for throwing that.

526
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: Into the pot to stee joining me right now, is

527
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: Brad Watts. Guys, the reason we're kind of a little

528
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: bit happy today is we don't think that the husband,

529
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: Mark Rimley is dead yet. Jen Smith is holding out hope.

530
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: Then he has just dropped off the radar, probably to

531
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: hide from his wife. Uh the Russian talk to Gianna Rimley.

532
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

533
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: Brad Wats is with me and this is where he

534
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: fits into this puzzle. Licensed Professional Counselor and certified sex

535
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: offender treatment provider who specializes in sibling sex abuse, sibling

536
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: sex abuse. This is book Sibling sex Abuse, America's Silent Epidemic.

537
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: Brad Watts, LPC, Licensed Professional Counselor dot com Brad.

538
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: This woman lies so much.

539
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: I don't know whether to believe her that she had

540
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: a brother named Vladimir that molested her.

541
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 15: Yeah, Nancy, Yeah, it's tough to believe anything that she

542
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 15: says that. My experience is that for a survivor of

543
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 15: sibling sexual abuse, for her husband to go into the

544
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 15: Moniker's Vladimir, the name of the brother who sexually abused her,

545
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 15: that would be highly triggering. I mean, that would be

546
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 15: like I think about the show on the set, her

547
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 15: being finding that out, becoming incredibly upset, not able to

548
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 15: move forward with it, and so there's just a lot here. Obviously,

549
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 15: you know, I don't know. You know, perhaps she was

550
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 15: sexual abuse put by Vladimir, but.

551
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: Why would she go along with her husband using his

552
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: name in some crazy sex game for a showtime production.

553
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 15: It makes no sense to me. Like I said, in

554
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 15: my experience, most survivors would be severely triggered even by

555
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 15: hearing the name, you know, particularly with the description that

556
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 15: the mother gave about her the sibling sexual abuse being

557
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 15: because you know, Vladimir was jealous of her and you know,

558
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 15: keeping her isolated for ten years and all these other things.

559
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: But the brother kept her isolated? What about her parents?

560
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: And we found out about this and one of their

561
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: divorce dramas.

562
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: Where it came out.

563
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: It was in her mother's testimony back in two thousand

564
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: and six.

565
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: So did the parents know? Are they unaware?

566
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: I find it hard to believe her brother kept her

567
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: isolated for ten years without the parents say so. I

568
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: just have a lot of issues with that, and then

569
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: going along with her husband using her sex abuser's name

570
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: in this charade. You know, doctor Angie Arnold, We've discussed

571
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: many times when someone even says the name Keith. It's

572
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: like somebody poured cold water on me out of the blue,

573
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: the name of my fiance that was murdered, or if

574
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: someone just asked me about it, good well intentioned it

575
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: just you know, I can be having a perfectly fine

576
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: day and they bring that up, and then I have

577
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: to remember everything. So I'm very surprised that she would

578
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: go along with him using the name Vladimir if in

579
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: fact she was molested by brother Vladimir for so long.

580
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 7: I know that that seems surprising to a lot of people,

581
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 7: But I know that you're not going to like what

582
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 7: I have to say about this. But how do we

583
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 7: know that this woman wasn't somehow being abused by this husband.

584
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 7: I know that it all looks very flashy on the outside,

585
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 7: but Nat Nancy, there are not a lot of people

586
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 7: who want to have sex with other people while their

587
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 7: husband watches, but the husband makes them do it. They're

588
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 7: punished if they don't do it, they're punished in all

589
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 7: kinds of ways. And so we don't know what kind

590
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 7: of punishment she was suffering from him, so that it

591
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 7: looks strange to us that she didn't have a reaction

592
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 7: that one of us would have to do. But she's

593
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 7: got a story in a background that's very different than

594
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 7: any of us.

595
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, you're right about that. Take a

596
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: listen to this.

597
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 10: She had a character that she played all the time,

598
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 10: and it was this Russian barbie doll princess equestrian. And

599
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 10: I don't think any of it was true. It was

600
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 10: all something she made up. I'm pretty sure her real

601
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 10: name is Tanya. I don't think it's actually Tatiana. It's

602
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 10: all this persona that she's made up. And maybe it's

603
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 10: a you know, came from the childhood trauma and she

604
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 10: needed a character that she could become that wasn't tortured.

605
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 9: I don't know.

606
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 10: But if there's none of it's real, it's all her

607
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 10: character that she plays.

608
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: From our friends at News Nation now, listen to crime

609
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: online dot Com.

610
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 14: Former friends who have known Tatiana Rimley say she said

611
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 14: she was Russian and had a background in dressage, a

612
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 14: highly specialized form of horse riding and equidisplay. However, a

613
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 14: former business partner, Eric Martanovich, says Rimley made up the

614
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 14: backstory of her life and that her real name is Tanya.

615
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 14: The Daily Mail reports that Rimley was born in Arizona,

616
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 14: raised in Bend, Oregon. Her last name is Clark. She's

617
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 14: not Russian. While working at a San Diego animal park

618
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 14: and doing some modeling, Tatiana Rimley began a relationship with

619
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 14: Ken Wolcott. Wilcott is a former Southern California attorney and

620
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 14: biotech tycoon who was part owner of the NBA Seattle SuperSonics.

621
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 14: Tatiana was twenty three years old and six months pregnant

622
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 14: with their son, Spencer, when she and forty three year

623
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 14: old Woolcott got married. The marriage only lasted eleven months,

624
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 14: but the battle for money would rage on for years,

625
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 14: even though a prenuptial agreement was signed by Tatiana Rimley.

626
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so everything she's told us.

627
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: About her background, her name, where she's from. Was raised

628
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: in ben To, Oregon, not Russia. Her name is Tanya,

629
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: not Tatiana. I assume she was an experty question because

630
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: she was seen riding by many to Richard Brandon, the

631
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: president of the Equine Expert. Isn't it dressage? Is that

632
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: the name for that very complicated type of horse competition.

633
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 13: A yes, pressage. It basically means training on horseback. It's

634
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 13: a bit like ballet, but on horseback.

635
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: And the horse actually learns like stepping backwards into the

636
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: side and very very complicated moves. What more do we

637
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: know about Tatiana aka Tanya from Bend, Oregon. Take a

638
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: listen to our cut seven from Crime Online.

639
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 14: While Tatiana Rimley was fighting her ex husband in court,

640
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 14: her former friends tell The New York Post that Rimley

641
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 14: was the life of the party and was targeting rich

642
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 14: men who could mangrol her lifestyle. Mark Grimley did just

643
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 14: that after they met at a local Starbucks and married

644
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 14: in March of twenty eleven. Pals of the couple told

645
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 14: the Post the two shared a passion for money, riding horses, drugs,

646
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 14: and participating in orgies.

647
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: Okay, a passion for money, riding horses, drugs and orgies,

648
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 2: Is that right, Tim Smith?

649
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 5: That's right.

650
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 9: A pretty unique set of interest there.

651
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 8: But you know, it definitely seems as though this was

652
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 8: a mutually complicit arrangement. Tatiana we know or Tanya, She

653
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 8: also enjoyed having secs with other people, whether or not

654
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 8: her husband was there.

655
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 9: Sometimes he was, sometimes he wasn't we know that they

656
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 9: both were buried.

657
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 8: They had a you know, open and fluid marriage to

658
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 8: say the least. There were drugs, there were orgies. There

659
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 8: were some occasions where he brought home apparently entire strip

660
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 8: clubs full of people back to their house. And they

661
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 8: did have many children between them. They might not have

662
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 8: any kids together, but they were responsible for at least

663
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 8: five or six children out and they were living this

664
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 8: really X rated and at times, you know, darknight CD lifestyle.

665
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 3: You know what, I'm not the church lady.

666
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: I don't care who they sleep with or if they

667
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: have orgies or don't have orgies, or have an open

668
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: marriage or don't have an open marriage. But what it

669
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: is telling me to Robin Drake formerly the FBI, is

670
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: that there is a lot of motive for murder. The

671
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 2: first husband wasn't the first husband Jasamith s rich as well,

672
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: like rolling in money.

673
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, he was super rich. He had the foresight to

674
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 8: protect himself with what is described as an iron cloud prenup.

675
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 8: It didn't stop her from being able to gleet him

676
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 8: from some money.

677
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 9: And the way that she accomplished it was.

678
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 8: By demanding very large child support payments for the sun

679
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 8: that they shared.

680
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 2: So Robin Drake behavior expert, all of this talk about

681
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: orgies and open marriages and a showtime special and money,

682
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: just money, hemorrhaging money.

683
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 3: For me. In my world, it's all evidence. Do I

684
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 3: have motive for murder?

685
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 2: And there is no way as it stands right now

686
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: that I do not believe the undercover agent with whom she,

687
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: according to him, contracted to kill her husband.

688
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, this is a great example of people living beyond

689
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 11: their intellect and she is definitely do it. Combine that

690
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 11: with total addiction of dopamine, hits from every single aspect

691
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 11: of life because they aren't struggling except to get more

692
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 11: money and learn behavior of how to acquire resources in

693
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 11: their lives unhealthy. Yeah, you're right, it's following that life arc.

694
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 15: Of complete chaos.

695
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 11: And I'd be really interested to see what her plan

696
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 11: was that she gave the cop of the detailed plan,

697
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 11: because I have a hard time imagining she can give

698
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 11: a detailed plan for anything. So it's fascinating.

699
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: You know, and as is not according to reports her

700
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: first time at the rodeo.

701
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: Take a listen to Hour cut five from Crime Online.

702
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 14: At one court hearing concerning financials, Wilcott's attorney said he

703
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 14: was concerned about how Rimley was spending the two thousand

704
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 14: dollars a month he was giving her. Wilcott found out

705
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 14: that during the marriage, Remley would go to Costco, Nordstrum

706
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 14: and other stores, make purchases using credit cards, and then

707
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 14: would turn right around and take the items back for

708
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 14: a cash rEFInd. After they were separated, Wolcott discovered Rimley

709
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 14: used this mess that does stockpile money.

710
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 3: Well, and that's all the way back in the Woolcott.

711
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: Marriage that monthly support demand goes up to fifty grand

712
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: a month. Right now, there is no sight nor sound

713
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: of Mark Rimley, the husband. Remember they have multiple children

714
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 2: between them. How is this affecting them? Dad is hiding out,

715
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: Mom is in jail. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,