WEBVTT - Talking with Adam O of Upstream Data 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.120 All right, welcome back to another episode of the Markmas 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.120 Show where we talk about the decentralized revolution, talking about 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:07.880 the way the world is changing as the pendulum swings 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.360 back from a centralized world to a decentralized world. Of course, 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.200 we're talking about bitcoin, which is leading this and we 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.000 look at it through the lens of politics, finance, and technology. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.079 And I like to bring to you each week, you know, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.239 some education to help change the way you see this, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.600 to help you navigate it better, the latest breaking news, 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.079 and I like to bring to you some interesting and 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.080 educated people to help get some different perspectives. You don't 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:30.280 have to listen to me all the time. And that's 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.919 what we got right now for you today. I got 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.960 a special guest, um I have Adam Oh. You can 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.440 find them on Twitter at Denver Bitcoin. He works with 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.320 a company called Upstream Data Ink, which is a pretty 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:47.520 cool company because they are um doing something that capitalism does. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:53.080 They're taking trash and turning it into treasures. So capitalism does, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.760 it doesn't waste things. It's always looking for more efficient 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.360 ways to do things and taking unused assets and creating value. Adam, anyway, Adam, 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.680 thanks for joining me today. Hey, thanks for having me markets. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.120 It's great to be on man. I've listened to a 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:05.960 lot of your shows, so this is this is fun 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:07.520 to talk. And I don't think we've actually you and 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.200 i've ever you know, spoken at at any length. So 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.559 so good to get connected. Yeah we haven't, we haven't. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.080 I know we've traded many many text messages, I'm sorry, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.240 Twitter messages back and forth together and uh, i've I've 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.640 remember even asking you where you live before, always looking 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.240 forward to a chance where we get together and chat. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.440 But but anyway, here we are. So UM. You know 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.759 I said it in the beginning. You know, upstream data 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:33.039 is helping people turn trash into treasure. And what I 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.440 mean by that is that there's a lot of waste 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.880 going on, um. And you figured out a way to 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.440 kind of take this wasted energy, this this flare gas 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.120 and turn it into something of value. UM. And I 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.560 think that's pretty important. Um. A lot of times, you know, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.600 we're seeing I was talking about on an earlier segment 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.440 about how they say that things are a waste. UM. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.320 So there a lot of a lot of people talk 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.720 about bit win and say it's a waste of energy. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.680 And I could say that meditating is a waste of 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.040 your time. However, I choose to use my own assets 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.240 or you know, my own private property, that can't be 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.400 a waste. That's how I want to do it. What 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.360 a waste might be though, is if I made a 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.280 bunch of food and then I had to throw it away, 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.359 I didn't use that food, that might be a waste um. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:14.840 And so that's kind of what I see with this 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.720 flare gas. Right. So bitcoin has to use energy that's 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.720 already being wasted. It's not actually wasting it. It's actually 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.120 only using energy that's being wasted. Is that about right 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:28.960 you think? I'd say, at the end of the day, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.720 bitcoin miners, those who are participating in right, producing new 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:39.079 bitcoin um at least for the next hundred fifteen years UM, 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.400 they're most incentivized to use the most economic energy. Right, 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.800 So they're they're constantly going to be seeking out the 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.760 most economic power on the margin. UM. What I mean 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.520 by on the margin is you know, per killed one 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:56.480 hour to to generate. And what we find when when 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.880 you consider that reality, when you consider the reality that 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.359 we now live in a world where anyone who can 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:07.840 go and tap into stranded energy, wasted energy, wasted power 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:13.160 stranded power um. There's a massive opportunity to to benefit economically. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.959 There's a financial opportunity there because we have this autonomous 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.760 energy consumption market known as the Bitcoin network. Right, it's 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.320 a it's a downstream market. You you you were saying earlier 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.120 in your show, you were talking about you know, one 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.200 of the beautiful aspects of bitcoin is that it's permissionless. Right, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.880 you can use it without asking permission, and nobody can 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.840 can stop that transaction. Right, it's an immutable transaction. Well, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.240 it's fun to talk about transferring money and having it 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.400 be immutable. What about selling energy? Because mining is an 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.520 immutable operation. Right, A fifteen year old kid can wake 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.880 up today, he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission, he 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.960 doesn't have to make any phone calls, and he can 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.160 go sell a billion dollars of energy without talking to anybody. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.160 So long as he has the infrastructure in the access 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:53.800 to the kill a lot hours to do it, you 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.000 can sell a billion dollars worth of energy. What do 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.760 you mean by that? What I mean is if the 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.520 Big Point network itself, the process of mining bitcoin is 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:08.400 merely just an autonomous electricity market, right, it's me effectively 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.480 what you're doing is you're selling electricity, and what you're 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.800 getting in return is bitcoin. Now to be more specific, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:18.839 you're selling computational hash computational work, right the changing of 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.000 ones and zeros um. But you need electricity in order 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.400 to generate computational work. You cannot you know, you can't 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.279 generate computational work without input. And so um, ultimately, what 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.120 we have is depending upon the efficiency of the chip, 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.840 which at this point we're entering into the period of 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.800 commoditization on the hardware, which you know it won't get 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.640 much much different than it is now. Um, what we 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.320 see is there's a standard electricity calculation where any minor 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.640 today we'll we'll talk kill lot our prices with you 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:49.279 where they say, yeah, you know my cost is five 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.120 cents per kill a lot hour. If you're mining with 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.839 an ant minor S nineteen pro right now, each machine 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.200 is making seventeen cents per kill a lot hour, right, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.520 so you've got a nice twelve cent margin there. Um, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.240 if you were mining last year like a out of 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.680 us work, it got above you know, thirty forty cents 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.440 per kill a lot hour. And so ultimately this is 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.880 a downstream energy consumption market and in oil and gas. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.160 You know, what we do it upstream data, and what 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.480 what we've done since is we help oil and gas 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:20.479 producers get their hydrocarbons downstream economically on the margin. And 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.359 Bitcoin is an amazing tool to do that because anywhere 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.880 you have electricity, you have the potential to to sell 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.240 that electricity to market anywhere you're generating it. And in 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.240 the oil field, people generate. You know, oil and gas 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.839 producers have been generating power on site, you know, forever right, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.239 they generate power on site to to run their own equipment, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.279 to run their pumps, and so that's not foreign to them. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.000 Now all they need to do is plug in some computers, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.880 take some capital risk, understand that capital risk, but what 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.960 end all of a sudden, they are now effectively selling 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.000 gas downstream to market. So you know, it's really just 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.960 that that as much as it's immutable to transact, it's 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.800 an immutable it's a truly free energy market. For the 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.599 first time in the world, we have an energy market 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.039 that is not puppeted states or anything. Now kind of 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.880 getting where you're going with that, because in order to 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.960 sell your energy to the market, it's not necessarily free market. 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.520 So it's all types of bus and hoops that you 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.320 would have to jump into to even get that. So 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.280 a lot of it's stranded, whether it's too far to 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.719 even get it into a pipeline or whatever. And even 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:22.520 if I could, then there's all types of regulations I 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.960 have to go through to even sell it to the market, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.840 Whereas I could just drill it on my own land, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.400 hook up a hook up, a couple of rigs, a 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.440 couple of bitcoin minor rigs, and I could just sell 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.600 that energy to market right there, I guess, is that 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.400 kind of what you're saying. Think about it as exporting. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.400 You're exporting your energy to the bitcoin network, and you 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.080 don't You don't need a license, I mean as far 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.400 as right now, right the government is required, but even 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.760 if they required it, you wouldn't need it to actually 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.880 do this, right like, you would be successful in your 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.320 attempt of selling your energy. But it's it's a means 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.560 by which to export because the biggest thing is a 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.720 buyer mark. I mean, think about it. You can't sell 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.200 energy today without somebody buying it unless you're mining bitcoin. Right. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.440 It was pre programmed thirteen years ago to buy your 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.120 electricity today. And that's a that's an amazing thing, right, 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.920 That's something those in the energy industry couldn't have even 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.039 have dreamed of. If somebody would have hypothetically discussed something 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.640 like this, they would have been laughed out of the room. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.000 And so the reality is kind of stranger than fiction. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.800 And where I mean, it's a it's an interesting way 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:18.360 to look at it. You kind of flip it upside down. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.320 Where I see that as as having a massive impact 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.760 is going to you know, third world countries where they 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.920 need more energy. I just recently did an interview with 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.880 Alex Epstein talking about the fossil Future, and it's talking 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.400 about how the world needs more energy right um and 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.480 specifically in these terrible countries. But a lot of times 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.440 they can't go build the energy there because there's not 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.520 enough people they're willing to pay for it, so they 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:43.080 have no one to buy it to the point that 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.200 you're making. And so now they can set up and 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.760 they have built in buyers and it can help offset 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.360 the help scale that well, it's it's the chicken and 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.760 the egg problem right where some of these communities, I mean, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.960 Nigeria is a great, a great example where Nigeria is 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.160 so rich in energy it has. I mean that the 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.080 country effectively runs on diesel where they have diesel generators everywhere. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.480 They're just businesses run with the diesel generator in the back. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.640 They have very poor grid infrastructure. But but you're right, 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.520 I mean, if I go in, you know, even if 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.240 I'm like humanitarian and I go spend fifty million dollars 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.520 to build power generation in in a third world country, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.360 a place without infrastructure, even if I'm successful in building 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.720 it and everything's great, I don't have a I don't 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.880 have a buyer, right, um, And so the investment is moot. 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.240 And what you end up having is you end up 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.200 having these these charitable organizations like the Gates Foundation or 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.600 something will come on and and they'll go and they'll 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.760 they'll do a project like this where you know, maybe 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.640 they'll do solar and they'll start trying to provide electricity 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.280 at a loss. But the problem is now you're you're 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.440 subject to that entity, right, Like that entity if they 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.559 go away, nobody else is going to come replace that entity. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.840 It's truly charitable. With bitcoin mining, there's a market there, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.040 so you can set up infrastructure, you can mine as 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.920 you scale and as you build out infrastructure for there 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.240 to become a demand market, right, So it's that it 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.520 solves that really, you know, kind of infinitely long problem. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.800 It's such a it's such a big topic, and you know, 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:03.000 you know, you and I we spent a lot time 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.680 thinking about this, but most people have just never really 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.600 thought through this and and what the implications of that means, 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.760 and they grab onto a headline and they don't even 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.600 put any time into it to like think about it. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.280 But when you start unpacking it, Um, it's not a 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.360 drag on the worlder on society. It's actually probably the 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.439 biggest gift that it's been given. So I want to 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.839 dig into that a little bit more when we come back. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.280 You're listening to the Mark Moss Show. UM sitting down 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.520 with Adam at Denver Bitcoin on Twitter talking about bitcoin 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.480 and the decentralized revolution. I'll be back with him and 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.360 more in a minute, So don't go away. I'm gonna 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.640 be right back, all right, Welcome back. You are listening 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.600 to the Mark mo Show talking about bitcoin. We're talking 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.240 about the decentralized revolution the world is going through right now. 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.679 I'm joining the studio by Adam Oh. You can find 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.960 them on Twitter at Denver bitcoin, and we're talking specifically 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.679 about well energy, that's why it's a big topic. We're 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.160 talking about bitcoin mining. And before the break, we were 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.520 talking about how UM bitcoin is unique because it's it's 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.319 it's permissionless, it requires no permission to join the network 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.040 or take advantage of it. And so he had brought 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.000 up an interesting point where UM now it enables an 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.920 energy producer, someone who had oil or natural gas, to 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.400 sell that without needing permission, no permits or anything like that. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:12.960 But also you have a built in buyer. You don't 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:14.800 have to go find a buyer. And the reason why 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.320 that's important, if we kind of chase that down, is 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.680 that we were making the case that the world needs 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.920 more energy. Alex Epstein was talking about in his book 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.200 that you have these third world countries who have have 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.320 have have all this unnecessary death because a mother can't 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.000 even go to the hospital and have a sonogram because 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.040 they don't have electricity to power the machine, or a 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.679 baby is born maybe prematurely and there's no incubator to 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.640 put that baby into because there's no electricity, and so 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.960 UM while many people are talking against energy today saying 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.600 that if we don't find a way to curb electricity, 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.960 that the world is going to go into this apocalyptic future, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.839 and uh, for a lot of people, for actually about 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.240 three billion people in the world today, we're already living 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.080 in that apocalyptic future. And we could solve that. But 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.280 the problem is how do you pay as you as 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.600 you made the case then, Adam, even if you're philanthropic 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.200 like Bill Gates, how do you go in and put 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:06.840 that energy there if there's no one there to buy it? 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.160 And so bitcoin could allow you to have an instant 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.240 buyer to offset that, and then people could start tapping 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.520 into it, and then eventually as enough people use that energy, 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.600 you could then remove the bitcoin piece that was kind 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.160 of helped subsidizing it, and then they could have this 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:21.880 energy and then you could have a whole community they're 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.240 using it, and then bitcoin can move on to the 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.240 next place. Is that kind of how you're seeing it, Yeah, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:27.840 I mean it's it's kind of the inverse of what 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.240 we're seeing in Texas right now. Right in Texas we 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.040 see an over abundance of supply of energy. Right there's 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:34.680 a lot of flaring going on. I think it's about 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.800 of the flaring in the United States is out of Texas. Um. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.360 Keep in mind that's a billion cubic feet a day okay, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.120 over a billion cubic feet a day UM of methane 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:45.720 gas and so, and that's just in the oil field. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.400 And so because those that don't know when you're you're 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:49.720 talking for those who don't know you're talking about when 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.600 you when you're getting oil out of the ground, natural 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.880 gas as also comes out of the ground, and because 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:55.880 of where it's located, for whatever reason, they aren't able 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:57.640 to capture that natural gas and get it to market. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.640 So instead they just either vent it, let it go 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.400 into the or they burn it and they burn it 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.840 into the air, right, yeah, yeah, they flare it, they 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.719 burn it, um. And it's typically like you said, it's 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:07.760 I mean, there's there's not very many oil wells in 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.360 the world that don't have associated natural gas at least 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.200 enough that you know, it's it's measurable and it's something 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.160 that would be flared. So pretty much every oil well 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.720 um has some associated natural gas. And so because of that, 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.840 like you said that, the economics are such that you know, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:24.600 you're not gonna build up You're not gonna spend millions 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.440 of dollars to build a pipeline that's gonna make you 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.640 a dollar a day and gas sales right just you're 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.960 gonna flare the gas. And so in Texas we see that, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:32.440 we see ton of that, and we see an over 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.640 abundance of energy supply, and so bitcoin miners are coming 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.920 in and they're they're trying to help provide what they 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.760 call load curtailment right where grid providers these very big 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.440 power generators. It's it's very costly and the economies of 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.720 scale or are brutal when it comes to um generating power. Right, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.720 some of these turbine engines, for example, natural gas turbine engines, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.960 they take like a day and a half to turn off, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.480 like to stop, you flip the switch and turn the 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.400 engine off. It's still spinning for you know, thirty or 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.520 four hours. And so you know, these are serious pieces 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.640 of equipment, and the problem is you can't be very 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.320 responsive because you know, it's like you're just gonna shut 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.360 down a turbine when all of a sudden, nobody, you know, 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.520 everybody turns off their heat or everybody turns off their 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.720 air conditioning. And so what they're doing in Texas as 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.760 miners are coming in and any time that the grid 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.680 isn't demanding power that's being generated there mining. They're pushing 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.880 that electricity over to bitcoin miners, and then any time 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.640 those on the grid start demanding, they shut off bitcoin 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.160 miners and they they you know, throw the electricity back. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.079 Kind of the The inverse would be what you just 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:32.600 said in the third world country where you come and 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.920 initially you'd only generate enough electricity to power exactly as 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.239 many miners as you have as you build out infrastructure, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.360 and and again this would be a decade long process 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.080 where then maybe slowly, you know, you you go find 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.839 somebody who wants to manufacture, you know, something like aluminum 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.920 or some energy intensive process, maybe even another data center 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.520 of some sorts. You find a customer for that electricity 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.160 which before you didn't have, and then from that customer 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.280 you can say, hey, look, I can I can either 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.920 increase my energy production or I can take half of 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:02.680 my miners and turn them off and I'll push the 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.160 other power to you. And then now you prove this concept, 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:06.480 and then you go raise money and you build up 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.000 more infrastructure and the next thing you know, you know, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.200 fifteen years later, people are lifted out of poverty and 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.400 energy I mean, I I totally agree with that, Alex Epstein. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.680 Energy is the solution to human suffering, at least the 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.560 majority of it. UH energy consumption directly correlates and corresponds 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.960 to quality of life, length of life, birthrates. And what 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.080 we're seeing today is that they're, like you said, market, 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.040 there's unnecessary death. UM it's and a lot of that 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.400 death is truly tragic, right it's. It's upper acute respiratory 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.080 illnesses that are caused because people are burning dirty wood 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.000 to cook their food in a poorly ventilated environment, and 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.920 they get a sickness and they die. Whereas if they 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:46.560 had a gast over heck, even if they had a 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.120 bag of coal, like they would be fine, right, we would, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.600 we would say, dozens of millions of people. UM energy 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.600 is the solution to a lot of human suffering. Bitcoin 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.720 being a autonomous demand market, right, an autonomous energy assumption market. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.960 And what I mean by autonomous is is it it 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.560 takes care of itself, like there is there's no helpline, 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.120 there's no UM managerial staff. You know, sometimes like it 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.360 happened when China banned bitcoin mining, like all of a sudden, 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.760 the competition on the network can either go up an 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.520 incredible percentage or get chopped in half. And you know, 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.520 if that was any other market, when that happened and 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.880 the hash rate got cut more than in half, um 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.120 any other market, the markets ares or the regulators or 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.080 the politicians would have stepped in and controlled it. Right. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.400 We've seen it Amazon, like half half of the Amazon 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.640 web services A data centers got shut down or something 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.240 right exactly right, like they freeze the stock market like 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.960 they wouldn't you couldn't trade. But if you're a bitcoin miner, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.680 when that happened, to all of a sudden boom, you 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.840 were more you were earning double the amount of bitcoin 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.400 that you were a week ago. And it's it's a lander. 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.560 It's an absolute you know, foot race to who can 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.800 get that hash rate back up online until we meet 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.160 that moment of equilibrium where to generate power now is 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.680 is you know bitcoin mining Bitcoin is not economic enough, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.480 you know, to go generate new power for it until 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.240 the price goes up and then all of a sudden, 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.560 you know, it demands more power. So to that point, 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.800 what I would say is the numbers are really uh 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:16.880 massive where bitcoin it justifies a multimillion dollar bitcoin price. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:22.960 If we want to see even up of of the 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.000 global flare gas be used to mind bitcoin, We're gonna 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.960 need to see a multimillion dollar bitcoin price otherwise the 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.360 economics won't make sense for that next person to come 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.160 in and mind that's how much energy is wasted every day. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.160 Of course, who knows how much flare gas will hap 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:40.720 and for how long at the rate. And we're going 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.800 with these policies that we have trying to you know, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.640 no new investments going into the oil fields. And then 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.120 and and that there's a different conversation. But I was 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.480 thinking about also something you were saying. How about a 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.160 year ago, I'm sure you probably remember Kevin O'Leary, Mr 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.280 Wonderful from the Shark Tank. He came into bitcoin and 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.080 he said Bitcoin is great, but I'm here to fix it, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.720 like every other rich person that comes in like it's great, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:01.200 but I'm here to fix it. And he started this 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.600 whole conversation that through the kind of the whole industry 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.240 into a tailspin. And he said, um, you know, I 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:07.959 like bitcoin. It's good, but I need to fix it 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.400 because it's all you know, it's bad for the environment, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.560 and we're going to figure out a way where we 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.160 can mine it. And tag it as it's it's come 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.800 from clean energy. That's what we're gonna do. And then 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.679 then I seem like Elon Musk got involved, and then 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.879 Michael Sailor got involved in his mining cancel and the 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.520 whole thing went to his tail spin. Well, this year 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.600 at the Bitcoin conference, I got to work the news 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.320 desk with Mr. Wonderfully, I sat next to him for 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.159 a while and I gotta have a conversation with him, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.160 and he went from last year it's great, I need 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.000 to fix it, we need to change mining. And he 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.520 told me this year when I was sitting on the 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.680 desk with him, that he's completely changed his mind. I 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.800 asked him why, and he said really, He said, bitcoin 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.280 is gonna save the environment. What It's gonna save the 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:50.119 environment because it's as pioneering all these other forms of energy, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.240 small nuclear au thorium reactors, like other types of energy. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:56.199 I want to I'll tell you more about that in 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.960 a minute. You're listening to the Market Mo show. We're 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.560 talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the decentralized revolution. We're 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.960 talking about capitalism turning trash into treasure and how uh 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.200 we can save the energy markets with bitcoin. I'm talking 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.399 with Adamo from Denver Bitcoin. We will be back with 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.240 that in more in a minute, so do not go 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.080 away right back, all right, welcome back. You are listening 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.520 to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin, we're 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.240 talking about the decentralized revolution. I am joined in the 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.200