1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to another episode of the Markmas 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Show where we talk about the decentralized revolution, talking about 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: the way the world is changing as the pendulum swings 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: back from a centralized world to a decentralized world. Of course, 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about bitcoin, which is leading this and we 6 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: look at it through the lens of politics, finance, and technology. 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: And I like to bring to you each week, you know, 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: some education to help change the way you see this, 9 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: to help you navigate it better, the latest breaking news, 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: and I like to bring to you some interesting and 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: educated people to help get some different perspectives. You don't 12 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: have to listen to me all the time. And that's 13 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: what we got right now for you today. I got 14 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: a special guest, um I have Adam Oh. You can 15 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: find them on Twitter at Denver Bitcoin. He works with 16 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: a company called Upstream Data Ink, which is a pretty 17 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: cool company because they are um doing something that capitalism does. 18 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: They're taking trash and turning it into treasures. So capitalism does, 19 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't waste things. It's always looking for more efficient 20 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: ways to do things and taking unused assets and creating value. Adam, anyway, Adam, 21 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: thanks for joining me today. Hey, thanks for having me markets. 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: It's great to be on man. I've listened to a 23 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: lot of your shows, so this is this is fun 24 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: to talk. And I don't think we've actually you and 25 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: i've ever you know, spoken at at any length. So 26 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: so good to get connected. Yeah we haven't, we haven't. 27 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: I know we've traded many many text messages, I'm sorry, 28 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: Twitter messages back and forth together and uh, i've I've 29 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: remember even asking you where you live before, always looking 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: forward to a chance where we get together and chat. 31 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: But but anyway, here we are. So UM. You know 32 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: I said it in the beginning. You know, upstream data 33 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: is helping people turn trash into treasure. And what I 34 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: mean by that is that there's a lot of waste 35 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: going on, um. And you figured out a way to 36 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: kind of take this wasted energy, this this flare gas 37 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: and turn it into something of value. UM. And I 38 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: think that's pretty important. Um. A lot of times, you know, 39 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing I was talking about on an earlier segment 40 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: about how they say that things are a waste. UM. 41 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: So there a lot of a lot of people talk 42 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: about bit win and say it's a waste of energy. 43 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: And I could say that meditating is a waste of 44 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: your time. However, I choose to use my own assets 45 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: or you know, my own private property, that can't be 46 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: a waste. That's how I want to do it. What 47 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: a waste might be though, is if I made a 48 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: bunch of food and then I had to throw it away, 49 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: I didn't use that food, that might be a waste um. 50 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of what I see with this 51 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: flare gas. Right. So bitcoin has to use energy that's 52 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: already being wasted. It's not actually wasting it. It's actually 53 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: only using energy that's being wasted. Is that about right 54 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: you think? I'd say, at the end of the day, 55 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: bitcoin miners, those who are participating in right, producing new 56 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: bitcoin um at least for the next hundred fifteen years UM, 57 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: they're most incentivized to use the most economic energy. Right, 58 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: So they're they're constantly going to be seeking out the 59 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: most economic power on the margin. UM. What I mean 60 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: by on the margin is you know, per killed one 61 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: hour to to generate. And what we find when when 62 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: you consider that reality, when you consider the reality that 63 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: we now live in a world where anyone who can 64 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: go and tap into stranded energy, wasted energy, wasted power 65 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: stranded power um. There's a massive opportunity to to benefit economically. 66 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: There's a financial opportunity there because we have this autonomous 67 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: energy consumption market known as the Bitcoin network. Right, it's 68 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: a it's a downstream market. You you you were saying earlier 69 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: in your show, you were talking about you know, one 70 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: of the beautiful aspects of bitcoin is that it's permissionless. Right, 71 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: you can use it without asking permission, and nobody can 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: can stop that transaction. Right, it's an immutable transaction. Well, 73 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: it's fun to talk about transferring money and having it 74 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: be immutable. What about selling energy? Because mining is an 75 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: immutable operation. Right, A fifteen year old kid can wake 76 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: up today, he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission, he 77 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have to make any phone calls, and he can 78 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: go sell a billion dollars of energy without talking to anybody. 79 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: So long as he has the infrastructure in the access 80 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: to the kill a lot hours to do it, you 81 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: can sell a billion dollars worth of energy. What do 82 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: you mean by that? What I mean is if the 83 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: Big Point network itself, the process of mining bitcoin is 84 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: merely just an autonomous electricity market, right, it's me effectively 85 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're selling electricity, and what you're 86 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: getting in return is bitcoin. Now to be more specific, 87 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: you're selling computational hash computational work, right the changing of 88 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: ones and zeros um. But you need electricity in order 89 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: to generate computational work. You cannot you know, you can't 90 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: generate computational work without input. And so um, ultimately, what 91 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: we have is depending upon the efficiency of the chip, 92 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: which at this point we're entering into the period of 93 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: commoditization on the hardware, which you know it won't get 94 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: much much different than it is now. Um, what we 95 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: see is there's a standard electricity calculation where any minor 96 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: today we'll we'll talk kill lot our prices with you 97 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: where they say, yeah, you know my cost is five 98 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: cents per kill a lot hour. If you're mining with 99 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: an ant minor S nineteen pro right now, each machine 100 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: is making seventeen cents per kill a lot hour, right, 101 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: so you've got a nice twelve cent margin there. Um, 102 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: if you were mining last year like a out of 103 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: us work, it got above you know, thirty forty cents 104 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: per kill a lot hour. And so ultimately this is 105 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: a downstream energy consumption market and in oil and gas. 106 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: You know, what we do it upstream data, and what 107 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: what we've done since is we help oil and gas 108 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: producers get their hydrocarbons downstream economically on the margin. And 109 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is an amazing tool to do that because anywhere 110 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: you have electricity, you have the potential to to sell 111 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: that electricity to market anywhere you're generating it. And in 112 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: the oil field, people generate. You know, oil and gas 113 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: producers have been generating power on site, you know, forever right, 114 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 1: they generate power on site to to run their own equipment, 115 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: to run their pumps, and so that's not foreign to them. 116 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: Now all they need to do is plug in some computers, 117 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: take some capital risk, understand that capital risk, but what 118 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: end all of a sudden, they are now effectively selling 119 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: gas downstream to market. So you know, it's really just 120 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: that that as much as it's immutable to transact, it's 121 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: an immutable it's a truly free energy market. For the 122 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: first time in the world, we have an energy market 123 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: that is not puppeted states or anything. Now kind of 124 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: getting where you're going with that, because in order to 125 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: sell your energy to the market, it's not necessarily free market. 126 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: So it's all types of bus and hoops that you 127 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: would have to jump into to even get that. So 128 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: a lot of it's stranded, whether it's too far to 129 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: even get it into a pipeline or whatever. And even 130 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: if I could, then there's all types of regulations I 131 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: have to go through to even sell it to the market, 132 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: Whereas I could just drill it on my own land, 133 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: hook up a hook up, a couple of rigs, a 134 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: couple of bitcoin minor rigs, and I could just sell 135 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: that energy to market right there, I guess, is that 136 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of what you're saying. Think about it as exporting. 137 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: You're exporting your energy to the bitcoin network, and you 138 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: don't You don't need a license, I mean as far 139 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: as right now, right the government is required, but even 140 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: if they required it, you wouldn't need it to actually 141 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: do this, right like, you would be successful in your 142 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: attempt of selling your energy. But it's it's a means 143 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: by which to export because the biggest thing is a 144 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: buyer mark. I mean, think about it. You can't sell 145 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: energy today without somebody buying it unless you're mining bitcoin. Right. 146 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: It was pre programmed thirteen years ago to buy your 147 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: electricity today. And that's a that's an amazing thing, right, 148 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: That's something those in the energy industry couldn't have even 149 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: have dreamed of. If somebody would have hypothetically discussed something 150 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: like this, they would have been laughed out of the room. 151 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: And so the reality is kind of stranger than fiction. 152 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: And where I mean, it's a it's an interesting way 153 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: to look at it. You kind of flip it upside down. 154 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: Where I see that as as having a massive impact 155 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: is going to you know, third world countries where they 156 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: need more energy. I just recently did an interview with 157 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: Alex Epstein talking about the fossil Future, and it's talking 158 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: about how the world needs more energy right um and 159 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: specifically in these terrible countries. But a lot of times 160 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: they can't go build the energy there because there's not 161 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: enough people they're willing to pay for it, so they 162 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: have no one to buy it to the point that 163 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: you're making. And so now they can set up and 164 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: they have built in buyers and it can help offset 165 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: the help scale that well, it's it's the chicken and 166 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: the egg problem right where some of these communities, I mean, 167 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: Nigeria is a great, a great example where Nigeria is 168 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: so rich in energy it has. I mean that the 169 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: country effectively runs on diesel where they have diesel generators everywhere. 170 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: They're just businesses run with the diesel generator in the back. 171 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: They have very poor grid infrastructure. But but you're right, 172 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if I go in, you know, even if 173 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: I'm like humanitarian and I go spend fifty million dollars 174 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: to build power generation in in a third world country, 175 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: a place without infrastructure, even if I'm successful in building 176 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: it and everything's great, I don't have a I don't 177 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: have a buyer, right, um, And so the investment is moot. 178 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: And what you end up having is you end up 179 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: having these these charitable organizations like the Gates Foundation or 180 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: something will come on and and they'll go and they'll 181 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: they'll do a project like this where you know, maybe 182 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: they'll do solar and they'll start trying to provide electricity 183 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: at a loss. But the problem is now you're you're 184 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: subject to that entity, right, Like that entity if they 185 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: go away, nobody else is going to come replace that entity. 186 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: It's truly charitable. With bitcoin mining, there's a market there, 187 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: so you can set up infrastructure, you can mine as 188 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: you scale and as you build out infrastructure for there 189 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: to become a demand market, right, So it's that it 190 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: solves that really, you know, kind of infinitely long problem. 191 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: It's such a it's such a big topic, and you know, 192 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, you and I we spent a lot time 193 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: thinking about this, but most people have just never really 194 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: thought through this and and what the implications of that means, 195 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: and they grab onto a headline and they don't even 196 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: put any time into it to like think about it. 197 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: But when you start unpacking it, Um, it's not a 198 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: drag on the worlder on society. It's actually probably the 199 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 1: biggest gift that it's been given. So I want to 200 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: dig into that a little bit more when we come back. 201 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mark Moss Show. UM sitting down 202 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: with Adam at Denver Bitcoin on Twitter talking about bitcoin 203 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: and the decentralized revolution. I'll be back with him and 204 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: more in a minute, So don't go away. I'm gonna 205 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: be right back, all right, Welcome back. You are listening 206 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: to the Mark mo Show talking about bitcoin. We're talking 207 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: about the decentralized revolution the world is going through right now. 208 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: I'm joining the studio by Adam Oh. You can find 209 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: them on Twitter at Denver bitcoin, and we're talking specifically 210 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: about well energy, that's why it's a big topic. We're 211 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin mining. And before the break, we were 212 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: talking about how UM bitcoin is unique because it's it's 213 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: it's permissionless, it requires no permission to join the network 214 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: or take advantage of it. And so he had brought 215 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: up an interesting point where UM now it enables an 216 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: energy producer, someone who had oil or natural gas, to 217 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: sell that without needing permission, no permits or anything like that. 218 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: But also you have a built in buyer. You don't 219 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: have to go find a buyer. And the reason why 220 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: that's important, if we kind of chase that down, is 221 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: that we were making the case that the world needs 222 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: more energy. Alex Epstein was talking about in his book 223 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: that you have these third world countries who have have 224 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: have have all this unnecessary death because a mother can't 225 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: even go to the hospital and have a sonogram because 226 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: they don't have electricity to power the machine, or a 227 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: baby is born maybe prematurely and there's no incubator to 228 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: put that baby into because there's no electricity, and so 229 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: UM while many people are talking against energy today saying 230 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: that if we don't find a way to curb electricity, 231 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: that the world is going to go into this apocalyptic future, 232 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: and uh, for a lot of people, for actually about 233 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: three billion people in the world today, we're already living 234 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: in that apocalyptic future. And we could solve that. But 235 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the problem is how do you pay as you as 236 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: you made the case then, Adam, even if you're philanthropic 237 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: like Bill Gates, how do you go in and put 238 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: that energy there if there's no one there to buy it? 239 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: And so bitcoin could allow you to have an instant 240 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: buyer to offset that, and then people could start tapping 241 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: into it, and then eventually as enough people use that energy, 242 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you could then remove the bitcoin piece that was kind 243 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: of helped subsidizing it, and then they could have this 244 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: energy and then you could have a whole community they're 245 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: using it, and then bitcoin can move on to the 246 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: next place. Is that kind of how you're seeing it, Yeah, 247 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's kind of the inverse of what 248 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: we're seeing in Texas right now. Right in Texas we 249 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: see an over abundance of supply of energy. Right there's 250 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: a lot of flaring going on. I think it's about 251 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: of the flaring in the United States is out of Texas. Um. 252 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Keep in mind that's a billion cubic feet a day okay, 253 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: over a billion cubic feet a day UM of methane 254 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: gas and so, and that's just in the oil field. 255 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: And so because those that don't know when you're you're 256 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: talking for those who don't know you're talking about when 257 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: you when you're getting oil out of the ground, natural 258 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: gas as also comes out of the ground, and because 259 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: of where it's located, for whatever reason, they aren't able 260 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: to capture that natural gas and get it to market. 261 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: So instead they just either vent it, let it go 262 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: into the or they burn it and they burn it 263 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: into the air, right, yeah, yeah, they flare it, they 264 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: burn it, um. And it's typically like you said, it's 265 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's not very many oil wells in 266 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: the world that don't have associated natural gas at least 267 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: enough that you know, it's it's measurable and it's something 268 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: that would be flared. So pretty much every oil well 269 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: um has some associated natural gas. And so because of that, 270 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: like you said that, the economics are such that you know, 271 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: you're not gonna build up You're not gonna spend millions 272 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: of dollars to build a pipeline that's gonna make you 273 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: a dollar a day and gas sales right just you're 274 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: gonna flare the gas. And so in Texas we see that, 275 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: we see ton of that, and we see an over 276 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: abundance of energy supply, and so bitcoin miners are coming 277 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: in and they're they're trying to help provide what they 278 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: call load curtailment right where grid providers these very big 279 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: power generators. It's it's very costly and the economies of 280 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: scale or are brutal when it comes to um generating power. Right, 281 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: some of these turbine engines, for example, natural gas turbine engines, 282 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: they take like a day and a half to turn off, 283 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: like to stop, you flip the switch and turn the 284 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: engine off. It's still spinning for you know, thirty or 285 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: four hours. And so you know, these are serious pieces 286 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: of equipment, and the problem is you can't be very 287 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: responsive because you know, it's like you're just gonna shut 288 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: down a turbine when all of a sudden, nobody, you know, 289 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: everybody turns off their heat or everybody turns off their 290 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: air conditioning. And so what they're doing in Texas as 291 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: miners are coming in and any time that the grid 292 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: isn't demanding power that's being generated there mining. They're pushing 293 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: that electricity over to bitcoin miners, and then any time 294 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: those on the grid start demanding, they shut off bitcoin 295 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: miners and they they you know, throw the electricity back. 296 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: Kind of the The inverse would be what you just 297 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: said in the third world country where you come and 298 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: initially you'd only generate enough electricity to power exactly as 299 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,239 Speaker 1: many miners as you have as you build out infrastructure, 300 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: and and again this would be a decade long process 301 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: where then maybe slowly, you know, you you go find 302 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: somebody who wants to manufacture, you know, something like aluminum 303 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: or some energy intensive process, maybe even another data center 304 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: of some sorts. You find a customer for that electricity 305 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: which before you didn't have, and then from that customer 306 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: you can say, hey, look, I can I can either 307 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: increase my energy production or I can take half of 308 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: my miners and turn them off and I'll push the 309 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: other power to you. And then now you prove this concept, 310 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: and then you go raise money and you build up 311 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: more infrastructure and the next thing you know, you know, 312 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: fifteen years later, people are lifted out of poverty and 313 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: energy I mean, I I totally agree with that, Alex Epstein. 314 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: Energy is the solution to human suffering, at least the 315 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: majority of it. UH energy consumption directly correlates and corresponds 316 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: to quality of life, length of life, birthrates. And what 317 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: we're seeing today is that they're, like you said, market, 318 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: there's unnecessary death. UM it's and a lot of that 319 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: death is truly tragic, right it's. It's upper acute respiratory 320 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: illnesses that are caused because people are burning dirty wood 321 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: to cook their food in a poorly ventilated environment, and 322 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: they get a sickness and they die. Whereas if they 323 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: had a gast over heck, even if they had a 324 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: bag of coal, like they would be fine, right, we would, 325 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: we would say, dozens of millions of people. UM energy 326 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: is the solution to a lot of human suffering. Bitcoin 327 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: being a autonomous demand market, right, an autonomous energy assumption market. 328 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: And what I mean by autonomous is is it it 329 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: takes care of itself, like there is there's no helpline, 330 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: there's no UM managerial staff. You know, sometimes like it 331 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: happened when China banned bitcoin mining, like all of a sudden, 332 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: the competition on the network can either go up an 333 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: incredible percentage or get chopped in half. And you know, 334 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: if that was any other market, when that happened and 335 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: the hash rate got cut more than in half, um 336 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: any other market, the markets ares or the regulators or 337 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: the politicians would have stepped in and controlled it. Right. 338 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: We've seen it Amazon, like half half of the Amazon 339 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: web services A data centers got shut down or something 340 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: right exactly right, like they freeze the stock market like 341 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: they wouldn't you couldn't trade. But if you're a bitcoin miner, 342 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: when that happened, to all of a sudden boom, you 343 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: were more you were earning double the amount of bitcoin 344 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: that you were a week ago. And it's it's a lander. 345 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: It's an absolute you know, foot race to who can 346 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: get that hash rate back up online until we meet 347 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: that moment of equilibrium where to generate power now is 348 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: is you know bitcoin mining Bitcoin is not economic enough, 349 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, to go generate new power for it until 350 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: the price goes up and then all of a sudden, 351 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, it demands more power. So to that point, 352 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: what I would say is the numbers are really uh 353 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: massive where bitcoin it justifies a multimillion dollar bitcoin price. 354 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: If we want to see even up of of the 355 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: global flare gas be used to mind bitcoin, We're gonna 356 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: need to see a multimillion dollar bitcoin price otherwise the 357 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: economics won't make sense for that next person to come 358 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: in and mind that's how much energy is wasted every day. 359 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: Of course, who knows how much flare gas will hap 360 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: and for how long at the rate. And we're going 361 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: with these policies that we have trying to you know, 362 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: no new investments going into the oil fields. And then 363 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: and and that there's a different conversation. But I was 364 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: thinking about also something you were saying. How about a 365 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: year ago, I'm sure you probably remember Kevin O'Leary, Mr 366 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: Wonderful from the Shark Tank. He came into bitcoin and 367 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: he said Bitcoin is great, but I'm here to fix it, 368 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: like every other rich person that comes in like it's great, 369 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: but I'm here to fix it. And he started this 370 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: whole conversation that through the kind of the whole industry 371 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: into a tailspin. And he said, um, you know, I 372 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: like bitcoin. It's good, but I need to fix it 373 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: because it's all you know, it's bad for the environment, 374 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: and we're going to figure out a way where we 375 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: can mine it. And tag it as it's it's come 376 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: from clean energy. That's what we're gonna do. And then 377 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: then I seem like Elon Musk got involved, and then 378 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: Michael Sailor got involved in his mining cancel and the 379 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: whole thing went to his tail spin. Well, this year 380 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: at the Bitcoin conference, I got to work the news 381 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: desk with Mr. Wonderfully, I sat next to him for 382 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: a while and I gotta have a conversation with him, 383 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: and he went from last year it's great, I need 384 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: to fix it, we need to change mining. And he 385 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: told me this year when I was sitting on the 386 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: desk with him, that he's completely changed his mind. I 387 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: asked him why, and he said really, He said, bitcoin 388 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: is gonna save the environment. What It's gonna save the 389 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: environment because it's as pioneering all these other forms of energy, 390 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: small nuclear au thorium reactors, like other types of energy. 391 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: I want to I'll tell you more about that in 392 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: a minute. You're listening to the Market Mo show. We're 393 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the decentralized revolution. We're 394 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: talking about capitalism turning trash into treasure and how uh 395 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: we can save the energy markets with bitcoin. I'm talking 396 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: with Adamo from Denver Bitcoin. We will be back with 397 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: that in more in a minute, so do not go 398 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: away right back, all right, welcome back. You are listening 399 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin, we're 400 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: talking about the decentralized revolution. I am joined in the 401 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: studio with Adam Oh. You can find them on Twitter 402 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: at Denver Bitcoin, and we're talking about bitcoin. We're talking 403 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: about energy. And before we went to the break, I 404 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: was specifically talking about how I sat on the news 405 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: desk with Mr Wonderful Kevin O. Leary and he went 406 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: from a year ago saying Bitcoin, I need to fix 407 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: it because I can't have any bitcoin it's been if 408 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: it's been mined on this dirty energy, to now saying 409 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: that bitcoin is actually gonna save the environment. I mean, 410 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: a crazy one eighty And I asked him and he said, well, 411 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: because it's going to pine it's it's it's it's helping 412 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: to establish renewables. UM. It's helping to pioneer new forms 413 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: of energy that we might not have before. UM so 414 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: maybe small nuclear reactors, things like that, and it's finding 415 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: much more efficient ways to produce energy. I thought that 416 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: was a pretty amazing about face you're shocked to hear that. 417 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm very shocked to hear that. I was. I 418 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: was ready to jump in, um I. It took everything 419 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: to not interrupt you the that's great news, right, Like, 420 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: that's that's part of the evolution, and that's what I 421 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: want for the world. And I think it's one of 422 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: the reasons that I've you know, Alex Epstein, I'm I'm 423 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: a big fan of his. I think he he's really 424 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: been out there taking it in the teeth and fighting 425 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: the good fight um on on this energy topic, and 426 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: certainly when it comes to fossil fuels, hydrocarbons. But that's 427 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: great to hear because what that means is Bitcoin was 428 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole that taught I mean, Kevin Leary, what 429 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: he's a you know, everything about his any introduction he 430 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: ever gets is about his experience, his wisdom, his investment. 431 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: I mean, he's seen a thousand, a million pitches um 432 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: for businesses and ideas, and yet obviously he still didn't 433 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: really understand how energy and electricity worked until Bitcoin forced 434 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: him to. And you know, at upstream data, that's that's 435 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: kind of the cascade. But we've seen too, you know, 436 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: I was a customer of Upstream Data. My dad and 437 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: I invested a small amount of money, and I mean 438 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: for the amount of money we invested, it's I mean, 439 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: it's it's a joke, less than six figures UM. And 440 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: we've we've mitigated over twenty million cubic feet of c 441 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: H four emissions, right, methane emissions which are eight five 442 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: times more impactful heavier as a gas than carbon dioxide. 443 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: And it's methane, right, it stinks, it's it's much more 444 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: of a waste, in my opinion. So what happens with 445 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: that methane? Right? So instead of it being invented or 446 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: flared into the system ecosystem um, you're now putting in it. 447 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: The natural gas now goes into a turbine or some 448 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: sort of a generator which then turns it into electricity 449 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: for the power of the miners. But what happens to 450 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: the methane It just doesn't ever methanast or does it 451 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: go to the generator of the turbine and then get released. No, No, 452 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: So that's the methane is the energy dense molecule. The 453 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: SIEGE four is the energy dense molecule that you're you're 454 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: using to to run the turbine. So yeah, instead of 455 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: going to the flare where the reason they flare it 456 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: is because when you can bust c H four, the 457 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: resulting product the CO two and H two. It's carbon 458 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: dioxide and water. It's the same thing that's probably sitting 459 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: on my microphone right now, right, UM. And so that 460 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: what I would call that is is pretty darn clean 461 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: exhaust right, cleaner than gasoline engine. Um. And so you 462 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: run into an internal combustion engine, what you find is, 463 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you're burning it through an engine, there's 464 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: a ninety nine efficiency of burn, whereas if you're flaring, 465 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: it depends on the environment. Right North Dakota, it can 466 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 1: get up to fifty winds. You might only find that 467 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: that that flare is seventy effective. And so a lot 468 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: of that methane is just spewing into the environment, you know, 469 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: getting released into the air. Now, in Canada, there's a 470 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: lot of they still allow venting. So there's a lot 471 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: of oil and gas producers that are truly they're not 472 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: even they're not even burning it, they're just letting it 473 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: spew into the air. And there are allowed fifty cubic 474 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: feet per day UM and so coming in and internally 475 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: combusting that there's no doubt. I mean, any any scientists, 476 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: andy geologists would tell you that this is you know, 477 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: any chemist would tell you this is better for air quality. Um. 478 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: Not to mention the you know, the economic waste of 479 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: natural gas Siege four. It's a very clean fuel and 480 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: it's incredibly energy dance. You know, these small little fifty 481 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: cubic feet of gas can power a kill a lot 482 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: engine continuously, which is a lot of miners, right, And 483 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: so I think I think his coming around is everything, 484 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: um right. I mean, every time we deploy another bitcoin mine, 485 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: another person is getting educated on maybe they're going you know, 486 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: maybe it's an oiling gas producer who's spout on energy 487 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: and well grounded, but he's going to go down a 488 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: financial economic rabbit hole because now he has to go 489 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: challenge whether or not this bitcoin thing is is Mario coin, 490 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: magic internet money or or something real. And so you know, 491 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: the more we can deploy, the better. Something else I've 492 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: been looking at was interesting, is like this contrast or 493 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: really it's it's just competition playing out in real time, 494 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: which is what we should have. And so the United 495 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: States being a republic, we should have fifty independent states 496 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: that then can compete against each other and we can 497 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: try different ideas. And so we're seeing like New York 498 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: just putting the ban on bitcoin mining. Then we're seeing 499 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: like Texas opening up to bitcoin mining, even in Fort 500 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: Worth mining bitcoin in city hall. I love to see 501 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: that competition aspect, you know, I look at it from 502 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: a bitcoin perspective, but also I mean, it's just an 503 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: attack on h it's an attack on energy, but it's 504 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: also an attack just on freedom, right. I mean, as 505 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: Americans like, uh, we should be free. It's landed the 506 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: free right. And so like, what is what is New 507 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: York City doing by banning bitcoin mining? They're really telling 508 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: you what you can and can't do with your own computer, 509 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: and they're telling you what you can and can't do 510 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: with your energy that you buy. Right, if you want 511 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: to dig into it, it's gonna be it's gonna be 512 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: an absolute uh migration, right, I mean, folks like myself. 513 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: Denver's Colorado is one where I'm I'm concerned because they 514 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: were one of the first states to ban uh some 515 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: of these really high end gaming computers. And I saw that, Yeah, 516 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: you couldn't even order these computers. Which they weren't even 517 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: a six. I mean they a sis make these things 518 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: look like like a battery here like nothing. Um And 519 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: so I imagine that I'm not you know, we could 520 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: be we could be close to following suit over here 521 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: or having some you know, similar legislation. So I think 522 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: it's a terrible thing. Um. I think it's a terrible 523 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: thing for individual freedom. And what you'll find is the 524 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: in my opinion, the power markets in those locations New 525 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: York City, it's going to become a nightmare because here's 526 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: the thing. While bitcoin mining, like Kevin O'Leary said, right, 527 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: it incentivizes us to go out and try to try 528 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: to come up with a new way to generate electricity 529 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: because if it's if it's cheap, right, if it's if 530 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: it's something like a hydro electric facility where you know 531 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: the water gravity just pulls the water, right, or solar 532 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: where you know there's there's energy coming there's input energy 533 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: that doesn't take any human capital or human requirement. Um. Absolutely, 534 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: it's going to be investigated because now there's an immediate 535 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: economic benefit. But we forget about all the pre existing infrastructure. Right, 536 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: every single energy producer upstream is going to be a 537 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: more efficient energy producer. They're gonna be better at getting 538 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: their energy downstream um for profit on on the margin. 539 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: This this lifts up all boats, right, This tide lifts 540 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: all boats with its with its use case. Right. Ultimately, 541 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: bitcoin benefits oil and gas just as much as it 542 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: benefits a wind turbine. Now that been said, a wind 543 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: turbine is a lot less efficient, right, you know, the 544 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: winds blowing with no one's demanding, and so there's these 545 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: these peaks and troughs. Bitcoin is great for that, but 546 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: it also makes an oil and gas producer, you know, 547 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: be able to go drill wells where it maybe didn't 548 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: make sense to drill wells because there's not that much 549 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: oil and there's nowhere to sell the gas. But now 550 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: we have somewhere to sell the gas. And the oil 551 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: is kind of the byproducts, right, where the gas is 552 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: the main commodity, even though it seems to be the 553 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: most of history, it was the the association, it was 554 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: the waste product. And now, hey, I don't care if 555 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: there's only a couple of barrels of oil in there. 556 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: I want a day of gas because then I can 557 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: power this many miners, and you know, we have passive income. 558 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: So it's I think countries like Canada's one where orlan 559 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: gas producers. The more and more they get squeezed, the 560 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: more and more they begin to to get you know, kicked, 561 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: kicked by regulators and and put down by at least 562 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: a federal kind of bureaucracy. Um. I think they'll be 563 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: in center is to export their their hydrocarbons to bitcoin countries, right. 564 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the US is putting sanctions on Iran, sanctions 565 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: on Venezuela, the very energy rich nations, the United States 566 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: can't stop them from mining bitcoin. And now they know that, 567 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: and so they can take their energy, turn it into 568 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: bitcoin and then go trade with their allies and bitcoin 569 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: and settle global trade in bitcoin. They never entered the 570 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: US dollar. They literally just completely circumvented sanctions and so 571 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: you know, all the way down from the individual to 572 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: the nation state. This is going to disrupt energy probably 573 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: more than finance. Yeah, yeah, And I mean Tiger disrupted finance. 574 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: I mean New York. New York is actively trying to 575 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: get rid of their title as the finance capital of 576 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: the world. Wall Street has of course been the finance 577 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: capital of the world, but through the pandemic, both through 578 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: being so strict on their regulations in lockdowns and through 579 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: the crazy high taxes. People decided they had enough and 580 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: they've been leaving. And so New York has been losing everybody. 581 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: Wall Street specifically has been losing to Florida specifically like Jacksonville, Florida. 582 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: And now we have a new financial system being built 583 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: and they're specifically righting themselves out of that as well. 584 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: And so we'll see Darwinism and competition play play out. UM. 585 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: I have some other questions I want to get into 586 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,239 Speaker 1: about some of the economics, UM, before we do. We're 587 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moa Show. UM sitting down with 588 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: Adam Oh. You can find them on Twitter at Denver Bitcoin. 589 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: We're talking about energy. We're talking about natural gas, talking 590 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: about what we're talking about bitcoin mining, different ways we 591 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: can use it, in ways we can power new technologies. 592 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: I got a lot more to come back in a 593 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: minute when I come back, So uh, don't go away, 594 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. You're listening 595 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moa Show talking about the decentralized Revolution. 596 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: Of course we're talking about bitcoin. I'm joining the studio 597 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: with Adamo. You can find them on Twitter at Denver Bitcoin. 598 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: He works for a company called Upstream Data, Inc. Which 599 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: helps people turn trash into treasure, taking vented or flared 600 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 1: asked that could be potentially bad for the ecosystem and 601 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: turning it into economic energy or bitcoin. Now I'm curious, Adam, because, uh, 602 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: you know what we've we've been talking about where you 603 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: have these uh you know, drilling for oil wells coming 604 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: out of the ground. Natural gas comes out of the 605 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: ground as a byproduct. Um For years and even still now, 606 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: no one's been capturing that natural gas because it wasn't 607 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: worth enough. When I really first started learning about this, 608 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: it was like two dollars, you know, was it two 609 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: dollars a gallon or whatever? Umm? Mcf right? Um, Now 610 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: it's up to what is eight nine per mcf or whatever. 611 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: It's pretty historic, actually, yeah, eight dollars and mcf is crazy. Yeah, 612 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: So it's like crazy, which then of course changes the 613 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: incentives around it, which is like, shoot, we shouldn't be 614 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: flarings anymore. We should probably do something with it now. 615 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: But one of there's other issues involved, so it's strand 616 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: it could be way out in the middle of nowhere. 617 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: Where I don't have pipelines, there's no way, really way 618 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: to get it there. It could cost me millions and 619 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: millions of dollars to get pipelines out there. Whatever. But 620 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: what I'm curious about is two things. So one, Um, 621 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: if we're at eight or nine dollars mcf right now, 622 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: which is to your point, historic, but that's actually cheap globally, 623 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: right we're about what globally or something like that, I'm 624 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: not exactly sure where we're at today. Well, yeah, I 625 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: think Europe because of the whole Russia Ukraine. I mean, 626 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: Russia's pretty much had a monopoly on Germany's gas, and so, um, 627 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: I think it's probably double if not. Yeah, the US 628 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: has been somewhat insulated from global pricing because we haven't 629 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: really been exporting that much. But it looks like there's 630 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: quite a few LG facilities getting put together right now, 631 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: which we could see within the year start becoming a 632 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: major exporter, which then could put us into the global 633 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: price of l G or or or natural gas. So 634 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm curious about is if I could 635 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: sell it right now for eight or nine dollars mcf, 636 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: maybe I might be able to sell it for within 637 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: the year. Um, if I decide that I don't want 638 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: to sell it and I want to just put a 639 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: start start mining bitcoin with it, do you know how 640 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: much I'm earning per mcf that way? Of course? Yeah, No, 641 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: it depends on what a six year deploying because there's 642 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: because the efficiency of the ASIC will determine how many 643 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: how much computational work per unit of gas or per 644 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: unit of electricity. And so right now, what I can 645 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: tell you is using the latest and greatest models, you're 646 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: about thirteen to fifteen dollars in mcf right now. Um, 647 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: last year we we saw over thirty five dollars in 648 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 1: mcf UM. We had guys in the oil field back 649 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: in seen that you know, they were initially earning ten 650 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: dollars in m cf This was back using older generation 651 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: a success nines. But then December came around and when 652 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: bitcoin ran up to twenty thousand, right, they made like 653 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: they were making like eight dollars in mcf um. And 654 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: so at the end of the day last year there 655 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: was a big run from the oil field. Right. Oil 656 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: and gas woke up to bitcoin mining in a in 657 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: a massive way. Right, tons of new container bitcoin mining 658 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: kind of companies. All, a lot of oil and gas 659 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: producers are getting funding and things. And what we what 660 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: I think we found was that some certainly some over capitalized, 661 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: um because they were like I said, they were makes 662 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: in mcf and and gas was a lot lower. Right, 663 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: Gas was like to fifty or three dollars in mcf, 664 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: and so when you're ten xing on the margin, um, wow, 665 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: like that's that's huge. And so the upfront capital was 666 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: was definitely reasonable, certainly comparable if not better than a pipeline. UM. 667 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: So the investment came in big. Now, what we're seeing, 668 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: like you said, a tightening where maybe that arbitrage is 669 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: only five dollars in mcf, right, which it's still significant, 670 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: and certainly when you're talking about millions of cubic feet 671 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: of gas, But it's all about I guess that relative investment, 672 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: pragmatism or practicality, right. I think what we're finding today 673 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: is certainly there are a lot more oil and gas 674 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: producers that are willing to invest in a pipeline right now, 675 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: because holy cow, you know, gases on one heck of 676 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: a bull run energy is and it doesn't look like 677 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: it's slowing up anytime soon. Um. But in the meantime, 678 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: some of them are even looking at mining until that 679 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: pipeline gets complete. Right, so they're like, hey, we can 680 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: we can do this on the interim, and then once 681 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: this pipeline is here complete, we'll move this bitcoin mine 682 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: to this well and we'll do the same thing. Um. 683 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: And so I think that's one end of the day. 684 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: I think that's one big reoccurring theme is that is 685 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: the portability of the of the demand, well, the portability 686 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: and the scale, like the how fine you can get 687 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: the scale right, we build it, you know, a hundred 688 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: eight kiloot increments for our data centers, Like you can 689 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: be pretty fine tuned and have little pieces. But beyond that, 690 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: they're not directly competing. Right. The way I've always looked 691 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: at it is, you know, this decade is going to 692 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: be spent. Oil and gas producer are gonna spend this 693 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: decade trying to figure out the best way to incorporate 694 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: mining bitcoin into their upstream operations. Right. There's gonna be 695 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: some places where it makes total sense. There's gonna be 696 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: some places where maybe it makes sense for a little while. Um. 697 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes when you know you're you're injecting well and so 698 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: it's it's going to change the way oil and gas 699 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: producers um actually produce oil and gas. It's gonna change 700 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: the way they drill right where Now a lot of 701 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: the times in these remote locations, they'll they'll inject a well, 702 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: they'll they'll blast it full of pressure, and they'll they'll 703 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: try to blow off all the gas because they're really 704 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: making a crude play um and it overall the overall 705 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: production of the well ends up being diminished because of this, 706 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, kind of this high time preference. Let's get 707 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: to the oil. We're looking to r o I. Our 708 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: investment right time is money. And so now they'll look 709 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: at it and say, hey, let's slowly inject this well. 710 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: Let's bleed off the gas. Will bring every single cubic 711 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: foot to market profitably. And then we'll and then we'll 712 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: make it a you know, an attack on the oil 713 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: and the life span of the well will be increased, 714 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: the overall production will be greatly increased. Right, We'll find 715 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: oil and gas producers becoming better stewards of the environment, 716 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: better producers merely just because of the incives that Bitcoin 717 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: lays out for them, just by giving them a portable 718 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: downstream market with no counterparty risk, right, no buyer, And 719 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: so as they begin to understand this, we're we're on 720 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: the frontier, right, we're on the bleeding edge. I think 721 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: we'll look back in ten years and say like, oh, yeah, 722 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: that was crazy the first you know, half ofies, you know, 723 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: when when everybody was still trying to figure out what 724 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: bitcoin was in the economics and the numbers of it. 725 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: Um like, absolutely, well, we'll see that because right now 726 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of too hard to tell. Everyone's still trying 727 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: to figure out what is this thing and what capacity, 728 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: at what scale, at what frequency do we do we 729 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: incorporated this into our company. There is nobody really arguing 730 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: anymore that it doesn't have a place. That's the good news. Um, 731 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: I mean it's getting sorry, I've got to I've got 732 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: a grandfather clock here. Um there, there there's a there's 733 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: there's no there's no denying that it has a place. Um, 734 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: it's just a matter about what scale and is this 735 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: gonna be long lasting? I think some guys are still 736 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: waiting for bitcoin to fail. They're waiting for this to 737 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: be like a boom and bust kind of a situation, 738 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: which which which which brings me to a question that 739 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: I had because it seems like for the last two 740 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: years we've kind of had this almost perfect storm for 741 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: bitcoin miners where from March we saw a bitcoin you know, 742 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: in the high four thousand dollar range and then run 743 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: all the wa up to seventy thousand, and as it's 744 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: running from three thousand or four thousand to seventy thousand, 745 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: which is an amazing run, at the same time, you know, 746 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: at half of the mining get taken off the network, 747 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: so you kind of have this like extraordinary event where 748 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: like all of a sudden you had this massive difficulty drop, 749 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: so all the miners were getting more rewards because less 750 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: people were mining, and the price of bitcoin was going 751 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: up crazy at the same time. So it was like 752 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: the last two years kind of this perfect storm. But 753 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: now I'm looking at it and I see all these 754 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: publicly traded companies that have raised hundreds of billions dollars 755 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: to start build giant bitcoin data centers um and so 756 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: we potentially gonna see massive amounts of hash power come 757 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: on the network, which means lower rewards for everybody. What 758 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: do you think happens in the near future with bitcoin 759 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: mining in regards to that, you know, I'm more I'm 760 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 1: I'm not as bullish on competition growing relative to to 761 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: to where we're at because we were at such a 762 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: massive size now. Um, you know, for anybody that's that 763 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: understands the reference, it's where two d x a hash 764 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: or two hundred twenty million terra hash, which using the 765 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: latest and greatest, most efficient machines, Um, you still need 766 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: twenty five thirty megawatts for one million terra hash or 767 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: for one x a hash. Right, So if you need 768 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: thirty megawatts for one x a hash, and you if 769 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: you want to double the network, right, well, to go 770 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: from two hundred to four hundred, we're seriously talking about 771 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: six gigawatts of power, right That needs to come online 772 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: and continuous probably needs to come online without anything else 773 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: getting shot off. So we're at such a scale now 774 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: that that in my opinion, if bitcoins price does what 775 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: it has done historically, it will there will be a 776 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: lot of froth in the mining rewards market for a 777 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: long time because if we if say, for example, if 778 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: we if we went to a hundred thousand dollars in 779 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: the next ninety days, if we had a crazy you know, 780 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: run up to a hundred thousand, I would bet all 781 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: the bitcoin and I own that there is no way, 782 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: um the hash rate could triple even in five years 783 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: power both of those. You're trying to gauge where is 784 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: the hash rate gonna go? But also where is the 785 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: price gonna go? Um, you listen, You listen to the 786 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: Mark ma Show. I'm in the studio with Adamo from 787 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: at Denver Bitcoin on Twitter. We've been talking about what 788 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: happens with the energy market, specifically, how does bitcoin fix it, 789 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: not waste it, but fix it. Hopefully enjoyed that conversation 790 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: to give at Denver Bitcoin to follow on Twitter. UM 791 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: number one, Mark Moss, That's what I got for you today. 792 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: All right, thanks so much for listening.