WEBVTT - Playing Persimmon and the Secrets of Pebble Beach 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:05.880 And when I find my. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.920 Ball in a fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.040 Frida egg, Frida egg bride egg Lie. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:39.360 I'm about ready to run off of the Welcome back 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.919 to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.720 your host, Andy Johnson. Today I have a giant podcast 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:52.000 for you. I have two parts, two interviews, one with 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.760 Todd Dempsey that I conducted and another with Chris Millard, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.960 longtime golf media person who's written a book, new book. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.960 The Todd Dempsey podcast was done by me. The interview 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:13.200 with Chris was done by Garrett Morrison. Garrett is out 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:18.280 of the country right now. He is frolicking about Melbourne, Australia. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.759 I'm very jealous. I'm envious of his trip. Right now, 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.319 he's playing with some Australian golf legends at some of 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:30.320 the best golf courses in the world. So today, who 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.959 knows where he is today, but he just finished up Victoria, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.600 He's played Royal Melbourne East. I'm not sure where he's 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.880 going today, but he is. He's on quite quite the 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:47.360 little trip down there. Todd Dempsey will be up first then. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:52.360 Chris Todd, for those that don't know, is a former 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.600 PGA Tour player. He was a four time All American 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:01.120 at Arizona State in the nineties, a walker cupper. What's 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.760 interesting about his life now is that he makes Persimon woods. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:11.400 He plays Persimmon woods pretty much exclusively. He has played 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.720 like PGA Tour Qualifiers, Champions Tour, Final Stage, Q School 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.600 playing per Simmon. Just a very interesting person in golf. 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.760 Chris Millard, he just wrote a new book. The new 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.880 book is called The Shot Watson Nicholas, Pebble Beach and 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.160 the Chip That Changed Everything. So it's a look at 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.000 the nineteen eighty two US Open and Pebble Beach. A 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.520 lot of the book is actually about the architecture of 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.480 Pebble Beach. So Garrett and Chris talk in depth about 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.720 this book in Pebble Beach and that's the podcast. Before 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.440 we get into the podcast, let's take a quick break 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:59.720 and talk about our partner, Stripe. Stripe's been a partner 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.640 of the Egg for a really long time, really since 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.440 we started to take payment. So we spend a couple 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.960 of years not doing any monetization. But when we wanted 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.320 to make money on the website, we turned to Stripe 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:17.360 and Stripe's been an amazing partner honestly, like great partners 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.519 are partners that you don't have to worry about. I've 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.560 never really had to worry about Stripe. So Stripe works 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:27.280 for us. They also work for giant businesses like Alaska Airlines, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.280 Hurts in the PGA, so many places work with Stripe. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.160 This is an amazing stat. It powers one percent of 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:39.520 the total GDP. That's a large number. Stripe has a 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.840 lot of products. You know, they have their online checkout 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.680 the general Stripe where you go and you can pay 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.640 for something and you check out with Stripe. One of 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:50.960 the other cool products that they have that we use 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.880 and over three hundred thousand businesses used, that's more than 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:59.480 anybody else, is their Stripe Billing product. They can do 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.240 advance billing software to handle even the most complex business models. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.080 So whether you need a flat rate monthly subscription that's 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.280 what we have, or usage based billing, invoicing, or anything 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.640 in between. Stripe Business helps businesses grow with smarter recurring 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.679 revenue management. So if you want to learn more about 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:31.560 what Stripe can do for your business. Visit stripe dot com. Todd, 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:36.479 I would love to hear you are becoming one of 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.640 the foremost Persimmon officionados in the in the game of golf, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.360 I'd say you're on the on the forefront, nobody else 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.919 is playing per Simon and Champions Tour Q school. What 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.440 is the process for building a persimon would like you're 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:52.280 doing right now? 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.240 Yeah, I start with pretty much a just a raw 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.320 block of person. It's it's been eat it and and 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.719 dry it out by by the middle Ground in Kentucky. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:11.040 Really good guys that are still still uh cutting per 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.320 Simon and so yeah, I start with a pretty raw 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.680 block and you know sole plate face, insert, bore out 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:25.000 the hozzle, just in shape it to whatever whatever I 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.520 want to to create. So it's uh, it's fun. I 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:34.320 I definitely in high school, I used to refinish woods, 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.080 but but now it's being able to create it from 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.920 pretty much nothing is is a lot of fun. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.159 What type of tools are you using to like shape 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.800 it down? Like how do you get it into that 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:51.240 into the head design? I'm also curious, like do you 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.920 play around with different designs? I know, like I have 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.200 a few different sets of Percimmons with with different features, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.200 Like I have a the Ben Hogan one that as 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.160 the little like speed slot on it. Like, are you 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.760 messing around with aerodynamic designs and and trying to figure out, 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.640 you know, how you can improve them? 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.960 Yeah, I mean I do. I try to. You know, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.640 most people that are into Persimmon are into the classic designs. 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.520 But that speed slot that is a that is a 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:25.000 good I love that that Hogan head. But I've messed 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.560 around with some larger heads and some really small heads, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.200 and yeah, I mean I'm always kind of looking to 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:37.320 see what works, but try to stick to pretty classic 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.400 designs and keep it as simple as possible. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:47.040 You mentioned so you're into refinishing Persimmons as a kid, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.680 I think like every kid really probably from my generation 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.760 to back, was into it. Like I always remember as 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.600 a kid, like playing around with lead tape ape and 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.479 seeing what I can do. I think like a lot 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.800 of that's gone with the modern clubs and club fitting 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.240 where it's gotten to, but I used to, you know, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.400 mess around with different setups, and you know, you would 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.160 you would do different things to your clubs, Like when 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.840 you finished playing professional golf around it was the you know, 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.200 early twenty tens. How did you get back into the 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:23.040 Persimmon world. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.280 It was kind of by accident. I didn't play much 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.720 golf at first. After after the game kind of beat 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.440 me up a little bit and I didn't play much. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.240 But when I did go back out, I find myself 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.880 just playing around with per Simmons. It's just for me 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.600 fun to you know, the feel and the sound and 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.360 in my opinion, the way the way the game was 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.240 meant to be played. Yeah, it was kind of by accident. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.360 I didn't didn't really go out with the intention of 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.440 making per Simmons, but I started to start messing around 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.760 with making some from scratch and got a lot of 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.640 interest from from friends, so I started making for them 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.559 and then just kind of kind of grew from there. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:22.120 What have you seen is like, what what type of people, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.480 if you've thought about this, are kind of most drawn 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.880 to the Persimon game? And and like what I see 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.880 when I have mine in the bag is like golfers 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.240 around me are just genuinely interested in hitting it. They 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.560 love obviously love the sound. But is there is there 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.360 a type of person that you come across more often 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.400 than not that is particularly interested in playing per Semon. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.480 Yeah, I'd say mostly people in my age range, you know, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.280 early fifties that kind of played per Simmon, kind of 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.120 at the tail end of Persimmon, and then the start 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.160 of metal woods, which which obviously really changed the game completely. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.880 So I think people that kind of appreciate how the 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:12.040 game was. How you know, golf courses were designed for Persimmon, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.880 they were not designed for the wood, the metal woods 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.760 that are out today, So I think, but I have 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.480 seen all ages, you know, you surprise I have been 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.520 surprised how many younger people are drawn to the person 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.080 and the game. The way when you look at old 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:38.240 highlights of great players in the past and playing what 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:38.960 they played. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.320 I mean, it's it's amazing when you look back at 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.080 like the shells wonderful world of golf, and just the 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:52.080 how much stylistically the difference of the game is with 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.280 you know, Persimmon would than in comparison to the metal 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.840 like just how how dramatically different. Even the technique of 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.440 a golf swing is. What do you see from from 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:08.040 your standpoint as someone who played on tour in the 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.439 four hundred and sixty CC era, how is your golf 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.040 swing and your approach to the game different when you 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.800 play per simmon versus the modern technology. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:25.760 Yeah, there's definitely a little more With today's equipment, you 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.480 can kind of swing for the fences and just just 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.920 let it go or then I mean you still it's 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.000 still the same swing, but it's swing's a little a 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.200 little less reckless than I see some of the swings today. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:43.800 And you know, misshits are we're an issue back then, 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.560 where now you just kind of hit it anywhere on 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.280 the face and it's going to get out there somewhere 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.960 in play. So it's taking a lot of the skill 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.800 out of the game and has changed the way people 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.160 swing the club. For sure. I'm not a super technical 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.840 and I don't really analyze the golf swing, but but 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.199 it looks different when I in the rare occasion when 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.160 I watch a little on TV, it's swings are swings 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.400 are a lot different than what I remember growing up. 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.960 So I think a lot of that is the equipment, 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.800 which is kind of a shame, but it's not much 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.120 not much we can do about it now, But I 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.280 I just I just like to keep the game the 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.360 way I the game I fell in love with growing up. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:33.600 That the beauty of of of the game and the 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.520 equipment and and you know, nobody was really trying to 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:45.120 cheat the game with developing clubs that that make it easier, 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:53.240 you know, they're I think the rules it's you know, 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.600 once the Metal Woods came out, the hollow heads, it's 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.480 kind of a turning point in the game, and it 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.720 would have been nice to keep you know, solid heads, no, 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.200 no hollow heads. It seems like it could be a simple, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.800 simple rule, simple fixed to to what we got now, 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.080 but it's definitely a little late for that. 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.760 You uh, you have played on the Champion and Champion 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.320 Shore Q School also some Monday qualifiers with the person 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.280 in Woods. What is the general reaction of of your 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.839 your playing partners when they see what you're what you're 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:34.640 rolling up with. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.959 Yeah, it's definitely gets gets some interest. And I'm not 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.080 really people that know me know, I'm not really into 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.360 get into the spotlight or trying to get attention and 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.760 kind of the opposite. So it's I kind of I 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:59.760 play it just because I love playing it, and but yeah, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.640 well kind of wonder what I'm doing at times, but 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.800 it's just I'd rather just not not play than than 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.120 play with some of this modern stuff. That's that's really 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.200 It's made the game just so so much. You know, 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:22.040 you go play Cyprus Point, great, great course, that's now. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.920 I mean people hitting sandwiches into into every hole and 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.400 it's it's kind of a shame. But I just do 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.200 it for my own enjoyment and try to try to 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.560 avoid too much attention. I just like to do my thing. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.080 But but yeah, I understand where people wonder what I'm doing. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.840 I you know, in my experience playing like Persimmon and 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.800 seventies plays, I've gotta set up Wilson FG seventeens that 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:59.280 I play with a fair amount to me, I don't 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.880 think like if you play well, you still like you 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.680 can't maybe quite bully the par fives as much, but 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.760 like you still have the ability to shoot really good scores. 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.319 I think this is like a misconception people think, like 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.960 like turning it back to the Stone Agent turns the 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.319 game into impossible. Like if anything, I find like when 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.760 I play per Simmon, I keep the ball in play 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.760 a little bit more even on poor driving days because 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.560 the ball just doesn't go as far off line. But 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.320 like what I see is like by I still have 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.520 the ability to shoot really really good rounds. It's just 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.520 when I don't have it, it's a little bit more 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.320 clear that I don't have it, right, Like it creates 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.120 almost a little bit, just a little bit wider variance 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.840 of scoring, but like it doesn't prohibit you from shooting 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:50.000 a low number. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.320 Yeah, I agree. It's if you're swinging it well, it 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.200 gets out there almost as far as the modern stuff. 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:03.280 And like you're saying, it's a little straighter, so yeah, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.600 I agree, it's not. You're not giving up much when 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.000 you when you're swinging it well, when you're a little off, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.960 it can it's it makes the game a little tougher, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.280 but that's just kind of the way it was designed 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:22.080 to be played, So I yeah, it's it's especially with 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.080 my woods, they're kind of designed for the modern ball. 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.560 The some of the older older per Simmons, if you 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.480 try to you know, they were designed for ballattas, so 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.120 they can be tough. But but mine are you know, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.040 a little more weight in the back, a little a 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.480 little more loft, a little less bulge and roll, and 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.800 they tend to work well with the modern ball. So 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.680 I really don't feel like I give up much at all. 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.000 And then you add in just the enjoyment of of 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.280 enjoying the game, and that's worth worth a few shots 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.520 in my opinion. So yeah, it's uh, I. 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.120 Think I think just generally, like I find my attitude 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.960 when I play with with the older stuff is better 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.800 as well. And I think like, and I have a 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.000 friend that says that this is because you don't practice 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.240 anymore and you know you're not as good as you 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.840 used to be, and these clubs help you cope with that. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.400 But I do think like just in general, like when 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:27.040 you you you're I think like, I just find myself 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:33.000 happier with the with the with the like there, the 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.640 feel of it is just so much more rewarding, right, Like, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.400 you know you are swinging well, when you're driving it well, 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.320 there are no you know, misconceptions about how you're playing. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.640 Yeah, that's that's definitely true. You can't really fake it 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.000 with with persimon and blades. You know, you either make 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.120 a good swing or you don't, and you accept the consequences. 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:03.960 And so yeah, that's it's I just feel like, again, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.480 classic golf courses were designed for for this type of equipment. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.160 So when people go out and say they shot sixty 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.120 three at Cyprus Point, it's not really the same as 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.760 Ben Hogan shooting sixty three in the in the match. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.760 You know, it's that was like a totally different game. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:28.280 So it's it's kind of you really can't records have 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.960 kind of gone out out the window. You know. It's 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:38.520 uh with with you know, when the Hogan's hitting you know, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.000 mid irons into every hole out there and guys are 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:47.160 hitting sandwiches. It's just it's not you can't compare those scores. 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.600 So but it's again, it's more more about the enjoyment 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.320 for me and just yeah, just enjoying playing golf. It's, uh, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:02.040 there's a much more satisfaction on a good good drive. 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.560 And and it's just what I remember as a kid 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.359 growing up in the eighties playing golf. That's, you know, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.280 getting on the first tee and looking at everybody's driver, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.000 the gray and the stain in color. It's definitely different. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:23.440 Now you get on the first tee and it's, uh. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.120 Was do you asked? You asked? Was your was your 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.040 driver built with AI technology? Like mine? Was? 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.720 Yeah, exactly, I I know. Now you get on the 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.240 tee and and and it's just whatever brand four hundred 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.000 and sixty c C driver you've got where it was, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.199 it was a lot more you know, started conversation, you know, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:51.800 looking at somebody's McGregor or somebody's wood Brothers, and every 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.040 every driver was unique, one of a kind. So it's 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.719 a I don't know, it's not not for everybody. I'm 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.639 not trying to change anybody's mind about golf, but I 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.320 for me, it's just, uh, I don't think i'd play 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.680 if I if I if I stuck to what the 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:14.720 way equipment is going. 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.800 I've told a lot of people that I've played golf 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.600 with this the story this year, but we we did 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.800 a we did a Hickory tournament and it was we 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.479 played like seventy two holes of hickory golf. And I played, 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.920 you know, the day or two before it with Hickory 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.280 clubs and and it was it was awesome. It was 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.280 super fun. But you know, the Hickory clubs are heavier, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.720 and obviously then you have the small sweet spot. And 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.240 I played a couple of days after that, I played 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.040 with modern clubs, and what I couldn't believe was I 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.719 had It was an effect. I felt like it effectively 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.360 was like speed training. I came back, I was faster 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.440 and because of the emphasis of hitting the club in 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.960 the center. I the next like two weeks, I drove 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.320 the ball better as good as I've ever driven the 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.159 ball because of like if you think about like the 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:14.800 mechanics of of have hitting these Percimmons or Hickory drivers, well, 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.359 like you have to you have to focus on center contact, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.480 and then the added weight is effectively like you know, 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.640 it's like a donut in baseball right where So I think, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.320 like when I what I'm saying this for is like 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:33.879 I think, like any like type of golfer, if you 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.679 play with this type of technology every once in a while, 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.240 when you come out of it, I guarantee you're going 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.439 to play better with the modern clubs because like you 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:46.800 are going to like the folk you you cannot take 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.960 a swing. I think, like that's the biggest thing, is 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.840 Like I think, I like can space out. I'm somebody 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.080 that has a short attention span, and modern equipment allows 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.840 me to space out, whereas retro equipment does not allow 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:03.840 me that opportunity. I like, I find myself more focused 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.439 over shots, and that is a good thing just to 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.480 do because when you play the modern equipment and you 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.800 bring that laser focus back, it is like you are, 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.200 you are going to play a lot better than before 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.560 playing that stuff. So I think it's it's a I 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.520 think like people do this like cross and I like, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.480 I thoroughly this is not why I play retro clubs, 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.600 but people do cross training and all sorts of other sports, 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.240 and I think that, like one thing that nobody's really 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:42.280 explored is how cross training with old equipment can help 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.560 you play better golf with modern equipment. And I know 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.960 that's not why you're doing it, but it is another 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.320 avenue of appeal for the old equipment is that I 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.399 guarantee by playing like what I found after playing I 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.159 played like it probably a year and a half, two 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:01.080 years of personmon and blades. What I found because I 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.879 missed way more greens. My short game got way better 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.119 over two years. Right, My putting got better because I 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.840 had more lag putts because I was having longer approaches 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.560 into greens. You know, like it made me a way 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.639 more complete player by playing this equipment. And sure, like 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.560 I didn't shoot all like the lowest scores all the time, 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.600 but I knew I was improving because of what the 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.280 equipment was forcing me to get better at. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.159 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I used to 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.480 coach some kids, some high school golfers trying to play 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.720 college golf, and I would give them a per Simon 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:47.120 would and I could see it with them. It helped 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.680 their driving. It definitely has helped my driving when I 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:55.520 reluctantly do play a modern driver. It just is so easy. 0:22:55.560 --> 0:23:00.720 It's not even it doesn't even feel like off, but it, 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.840 uh yeah, it's it's it's not really why I do it, 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.000 but I agree that it can only help you know, it's, uh, 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:15.119 if if you're hitting wedges into every hole, you're probably 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:20.960 not missing many greens and you're not not really learning 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.440 how to play the game. So I it's I would 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:27.679 definitely recommend it, even for people that aren't interested in 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:32.360 it for the nostalgic reasons, to to to play them 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.800 and see what it does for your game, because it 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.800 definitely definitely makes you sharp. You can't you can't get 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:43.359 away with a whole lot swinging for Simmons. 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.080 So you you had a great competitive career, I think, uh, 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.040 you know, you might say, oh well, he might play 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.879 downplay it, you downplay stuff, but you you were a 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.720 four time All American at Arizona State. You played on 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:02.920 the Walker Cup. You made one hundred and fifty cuts 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:04.880 over one hundred and fifty cuts on the PGA Tour 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:08.720 and corn Ferry Tour. When you look back on your 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:13.320 your career, do you have like a singular event or 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:19.640 experience that stands out above all all the other ones. 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.239 Yeah, I mean definitely playing the Walker Cup was one 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:30.159 of the highlights, you know, representing the US, and that 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.000 definitely stands out. As far as pro golf, it all 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:35.440 kind of ran together. It was a way to make 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:39.119 a living, and it kind of kind of squeaked by, 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.960 but it was I got away from from why I 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:46.159 played golf, and I was just out there trying to, 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:52.080 you know, like make cuts and make some money, and 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.880 completely got away from from why I started playing the game. 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.800 And it's kind of why when I was I didn't 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:02.800 play at all, and then when I did come back 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:06.320 and play, I was going to do it differently with 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:11.800 persimmons and kind of the way the game when I 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:13.960 was introduced to the game, the way it was played. 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:18.560 So what is it about golf that you love the 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:24.240 most at its core? You like like the aspect of 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:27.520 the game that the person brings out. What is it 0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:29.600 about golf that you fell in love with as a kid. 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:36.479 Yeah, I think it wasn't about the score. It was 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:42.760 more about just being out out in the nature and 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.320 the course, being one with the course and kind of 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:48.480 I mean, obviously you're trying to shoot a low score, 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.159 but it was kind of it was not in the 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.919 top five of things that I was out there for. Again, 0:25:55.960 --> 0:26:02.119 when I turned pro, it became everything. So yeah, just 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:06.280 is is a you know, as much more into into 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:08.840 golf courses. That's That's one thing I did find when 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.240 I went from amateur to pro golf went from playing 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:17.720 you know, really really good golf courses to still good courses, 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:23.639 but not not historical. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I played 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:29.480 for US Amateurs and and maybe they weren't the They 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:31.240 were all good, but not It was kind of a 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:34.200 kind of a low point in in in the U 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:39.119 s Ams. But I the Champions Club in Houston was 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:46.359