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Speaker 1: Coolso media, Hello, and welcome to cool people who did

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Speaker 1: cool stuff. You're a weekly reminder that nothing ever changes.

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Speaker 1: And by that I mean people keep doing good things

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Speaker 1: and only good things, And we do good things because

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Speaker 1: bad things happen. It's almost like the people who do

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Speaker 1: bad things. No, they're not doing us a favor by

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Speaker 1: letting us have a chance to do good things. But

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Speaker 1: one good thing that's happening is that I have a guest,

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Speaker 1: and my guest is Gabe.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: How are you Hi?

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Speaker 2: It's Gabe from the first one you'll remember.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have a question for you. Yeah, what does

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Speaker 1: a thousand natural shocks mean? Which is, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the name of the podcast that Gabe does.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and my sub sac it's from the to be

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Speaker 2: or not to be speech from Hamlet.

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, I feel like a uh huh Okay.

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Speaker 2: He says the thousand natural shocks that flashes air to

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Speaker 2: And I kind of have weird like obsessions with different

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Speaker 2: Shakespeare plays for different amounts of time. So in college

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Speaker 2: I was really into Macbeth and I did not care

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Speaker 2: about anything.

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Speaker 1: Else because you're neurotypical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because there's no autism detected here. Yeah, And then,

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Speaker 2: so it wasn't like, oh, you're into Shakespeare. It was like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm into this. And so that happened with Hamlet too.

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Speaker 2: While this was going on, because I was like, I

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Speaker 2: watched the Kenneth brannaw one.

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Speaker 1: Don't ask me to know the name of pop people

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Speaker 1: or actors.

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Speaker 2: So Kenneth Brandna, he's an actor, but he's also like,

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Speaker 2: he did an adaptation of Hamlet that's four hours long.

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Speaker 2: It ripped for me. I loved it, but then I

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Speaker 2: saw that he was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay for

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Speaker 2: it when he simply did not change one word.

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Speaker 1: I would still say a screenplay from a stage play

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Speaker 1: is an adaptation.

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Speaker 2: He did, Okay, sure, maybe no, I'll buy it. But

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Speaker 2: when I saw that, I was like, he did, no,

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Speaker 2: no it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I will make my case because my association with

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Speaker 1: to be or not to be speech besides the only

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare I can quote like five lines of as compared

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Speaker 1: to nothing else. Can't quote anything of. Because when I

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Speaker 1: was in high school and I was an ingl me

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Speaker 1: and my best friend were teamed up to make Hamlet videos.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, we had to pick some scenes and make

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Speaker 1: a Hamlet video. And me and my best friend competed

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Speaker 1: who got to be Hamlet by whoever memorized the speech

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Speaker 1: faster and I did not, And so I got my

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Speaker 1: second pick of who I wanted to be. So I

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Speaker 1: was a gay male Ophelia. Yes, okay, And so I

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Speaker 1: had a very tortured suicide scene, interesting bits of lore,

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Speaker 1: and we set the whole thing to the caral orifle

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Speaker 1: like do do do?

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Wow that was a pretentious little asshole. Yeah, I got

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Speaker 1: to be Ophelia, so it all worked out.

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Speaker 2: Also, I want to shout out the movie Sing Sing,

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Speaker 2: which is also where I got that from. Speaking of

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Speaker 2: auditioning for Hamlet, I started liking Hamlet because in that movie,

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Speaker 2: it's about a real life troop of actors in a

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Speaker 2: prison who put on a play and they wanted you Hamlet.

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Speaker 2: But then they start writing Hamlet into a different play,

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Speaker 2: so like, Hamlet's just a character in this other play

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Speaker 2: they're doing. And two, the audition for Pamela. The part

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Speaker 2: that made me absolutely sob at the end is that

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Speaker 2: all of the actors in the film are playing themselves.

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Speaker 2: It's the prison troop. Guys other than Coleman Domingo. I

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Speaker 2: lost it. Holy shit, It's so good. It's so good.

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Speaker 1: Well to also talk about people who are theatrical is

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Speaker 1: this week because these ladies are queens sometimes, but because

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Speaker 1: we are on part two of a two parter about

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Speaker 1: the Galley, the transpriestesses of ancient Rome, who I thought

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Speaker 1: were going to be way more mythical than they are,

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Speaker 1: and actually we're just there was a fucking lot of them.

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Speaker 1: For once, source I found said that they were around

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Speaker 1: for twelve hundred years. What Yeah, I didn't find to

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Speaker 1: start an end date there, and that would push it

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Speaker 1: past the Christianization of Rome. And I haven't read as

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Speaker 1: much about the Galley past Christianization of Rome, but that's

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Speaker 1: just because I haven't read as much. So the Galley

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Speaker 1: were primarily talked about at the time with male language

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Speaker 1: the Gale, and again, as I said before, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find pronunciation guides doing what I can. Most modern historians,

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Speaker 1: at least the ones I've tended to look at, tend

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Speaker 1: to use the female forms when talking about them, and

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Speaker 1: some of the original sources also use the female form

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Speaker 1: when talking about them, and you can kind of basically

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Speaker 1: see how much of Dick's they're being based on how

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Speaker 1: they fucking gender them in language. Imagine that things change

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Speaker 1: so much. Wild the galley existed for a while before

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Speaker 1: they started showing up and writing, probably, and that happens

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Speaker 1: around the year two hundred BCE. The first poems about

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Speaker 1: them are epigrams in this context, are very short poems,

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Speaker 1: usually inscribed on things. There's just a bunch of them,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, kind of like a classic style of

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Speaker 1: story will be about a gala, an individual galley who

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Speaker 1: is attacked by a lion and then uses her drum

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Speaker 1: and wild ritual dancing to scare the lion away and

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Speaker 1: then donate something a robe, a drum, a lock of

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Speaker 1: hair to meet your sabelli. Huh. The galley probably grew

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Speaker 1: out of the metro gear test the itinerant preachers and beggars.

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Speaker 1: And we know this, or we suspect this because one

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Speaker 1: of the epigrams that's just like the same story as always,

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Speaker 1: instead of using the word gala, use the word metro guide.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay.

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Speaker 1: And then one guy later was like, ione is called

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Speaker 1: the metrogetes, but galoy are what they're now called, and

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Speaker 1: used yet another well, I think they used the latter,

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Speaker 1: the caloy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, we should go back to being called these

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Speaker 2: fun things like or just start using them to confuse

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Speaker 2: sis people.

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Speaker 1: I know, although what if it will get baden Gate two?

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I'll actually probably cover the baiten at some point,

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Speaker 1: which is the medieval English conception of the third gender

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Speaker 1: of trans women.

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Speaker 2: But we are not using cool enough words, and that

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Speaker 2: I will go on record that's the number one problem

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Speaker 2: for trans people today.

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Speaker 1: And I think we're pretty good at being cool. I

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Speaker 1: actually think it's the people who are I know, you

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Speaker 1: know this, Yeah, it's like, oh, we reclaimed the tea slurt.

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Speaker 2: That's nice. I'm calling myself a metro guard now, yeah, Bryan,

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Speaker 2: stop me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's funny because it's like we've always been

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Speaker 1: seen as cool and that scares people. Tease scares people

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Speaker 1: that we are because you have to be so comfortable

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Speaker 1: to come out as trans, and being comfortable is how

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Speaker 1: you are cool. And so these people who've locked themselves

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Speaker 1: into these like really rigid places are like, no, you

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Speaker 1: can't go over to the fun place, you have to

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Speaker 1: stay over here.

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Speaker 2: I literally had someone when I was a bisexual woman,

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Speaker 2: which we all know is the most oppressed person you

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Speaker 2: can be, especially if you're white. Someone messaged me and

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Speaker 2: was like, I used to bully you online, like homophobically.

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Speaker 2: It was because I'm gay and I'm sorry and now

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Speaker 2: I'm out.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, aw wow, that's sweet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is that they said in the thing,

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Speaker 2: they were like, I was just jealous.

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Speaker 1: I love an Onion headline from like ten years ago

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Speaker 1: that was like grandfather confused as to why trans granddaughter

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Speaker 1: doesn't just dress in women's clothes in private like everyone

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Speaker 1: from his generation.

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Speaker 2: Yes, suh, yes suh.

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Speaker 1: So basically, at various points we do more obvious shit.

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Speaker 1: And the name Galley probably comes from the River Gallos,

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Speaker 1: which is in Phrygia. So it's basically a way of

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Speaker 1: being like, oh, these Phrygians, these like foreigners. The foreignness

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Speaker 1: of this cult, even though it's like tied now into

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Speaker 1: like Greek and especially Roman nationalism, it's still about being

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Speaker 1: like this foreign group of wild people, and so the

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Speaker 1: River Gallos is like, oh, this is basically the Phrygians.

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Speaker 1: There's also a chance that they got their name from

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Speaker 1: the Gauls who lived on the river Gallows. Oh, so

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because then it's like the Celts are fucking

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Speaker 1: added again.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, Okay, interesting.

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Speaker 1: And that's probably less likely. Oh boo. And the river

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Speaker 1: Gallos is said to drive anyone who drink his waters insane,

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Speaker 1: and the Sibylly cult was largely seen as insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so now my next question is, what's the definition

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Speaker 2: of insanity? Just dancing crazy with a drum? Like, what

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Speaker 2: are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: I mean they're like cutting their own dicks off during

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Speaker 1: ecstatic dancing and stuff during Yeah, in like public ways

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Speaker 1: pretty metal? It is really fucking metal.

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Speaker 2: Oh you guys thought ripping off a bat's head spitting

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Speaker 2: it was metal, which I don't think he.

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Speaker 1: Even did on No, I don't remember if he did it.

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Speaker 2: I think it wasn't on purpose. And now you know,

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Speaker 2: are you cutting your dickoff while dancing?

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Speaker 1: No? Yeah, so yeah, you really got nothing on these people,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting. One historian that I was reading was

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Speaker 1: talking about how some trans people look back enviously of

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Speaker 1: this group, even though they're super ostracized, literally because their

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Speaker 1: transition was in their own hands.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow wow.

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Speaker 1: And like because back then you were just like, I'm

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Speaker 1: fucking crazy, let's go cut your dick off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now it's like you have to get diagnosed as crazy.

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Speaker 1: This is a little bit more like twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love this. You have to get diagnosed as

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Speaker 1: crazy and then taken through the crazy system and then

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Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, I guess you're so crazy that we're

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Speaker 1: going to cut your dick off. And for anyone who's listening,

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Speaker 1: not everyone, even in the Sibley cult, probably but not

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Speaker 1: everyone's cutting their shit off. Whatever gender and sex are different,

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Speaker 1: do your homework. Anyway. Even in the twentieth century, historians

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, these people castrated themselves because they were insane.

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Speaker 1: And it takes until the twenty first century where people

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Speaker 1: are like, uh, you historians haven't really paid attention to

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Speaker 1: modern sociology, have you. And it's also possible that the

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Speaker 1: Galley that their name comes from the Gala consumer and

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Speaker 1: some historians have traced a possible route of cultural transmission.

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Speaker 1: This is less likely. It's more likely it's the people

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Speaker 1: of the Crazy River and Crazy Town over east. And

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Speaker 1: even though many of the people in the cult are

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Speaker 1: literally Greek, they're basically being like, oh, those weird foreigners

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Speaker 1: and the Galley were males who castrated themselves ritually and

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Speaker 1: then lived as women. And there's actually specific mythology. I'll

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Speaker 1: get into it a little bit about why they're not

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Speaker 1: just eunuchs but actually living as women, and it's a

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Speaker 1: different thing.

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Speaker 2: Ah Okay.

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Speaker 1: The historian Ka Lucker, who wrote this piece in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five that I'm citing sometimes and again in

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Speaker 1: the notes, wrote about the galley in Greece. Quote, the

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Speaker 1: social structure depended on clear, inflexible gender roles, and the

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Speaker 1: transgender priesthood seemed to threaten those roles, even while it

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Speaker 1: acted as a pressure valve, allowing people who could not

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Speaker 1: fit the rigid social roles a means of escape. And

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Speaker 1: so this is like the Greece and Rome are incredibly

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Speaker 1: patriarchal cultures with these very rigid gender roles, and so

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Speaker 1: here comes the wild thing. And this is why I'm

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Speaker 1: arguing that basically people are like, oh, we better let

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Speaker 1: people get trans otherwise it's going to be fucked up

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Speaker 1: in here, and so we want to do it in

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Speaker 1: our way by ostracizing them and controlling them, but tying

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Speaker 1: them into things.

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Speaker 2: I see. It's interesting. It's almost like, oh, you're having

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Speaker 2: some gay feelings, go be a priest. Like it's very.

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Speaker 1: Like that probably happened a lot in history. Huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very much like, oh, you're kind of a

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Speaker 2: different thing. You're weird. So instead of being in regular society,

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Speaker 2: we'll put you in this temple and then you'll be

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Speaker 2: taking care of the God. Yeah, and then you're not

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Speaker 2: in our grocery store or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I remember talking to my aunt rest in peace. I

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Speaker 1: love her. Who's a nun? Yeah, And I remember I

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Speaker 1: asked her, you know, she was like dying, and I'm like, so,

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Speaker 1: why'd you become a nun? And she's like, well, I

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Speaker 1: like teaching and I didn't want to get married, and

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Speaker 1: I like, god, yeah, And like I don't know if

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Speaker 1: she was gay. I know she didn't like men very much,

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Speaker 1: but like, I don't know if she's gay or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't care. Like, but her best

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Speaker 1: friend of sixty years they fucking lived together, and like,

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Speaker 1: as my aunt's memory went, her best friend would answer

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Speaker 1: for her, and like whatever the nature of that relationship

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Speaker 1: was was beautiful, like and it Yeah, I actually personally

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Speaker 1: think that aunt was probably like ace or just a nun.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's a different sexuality to be

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Speaker 1: a nun, you know.

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Speaker 2: Right, But you couldn't like you were just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the only place for me basically. And so if

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Speaker 2: you give yourself to a god and you have some

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Speaker 2: sort of different sexuality or different gender expression or identity

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Speaker 2: than mainstream society, it makes sense to be like, no,

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Speaker 2: this is a god thing. Yeah, totally, this is about

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Speaker 2: God for me. Actually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Galay could still fuck so well with

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Speaker 1: a lot of God people, fair, that's true. A lot

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Speaker 1: of God people fuck.

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Speaker 2: A lot of God people fuck.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so soon enough the Galley are going to

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Speaker 1: show up in Rome too, and Rome is gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: become a pretty big deal on the world stage. So

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Speaker 1: because Rome becomes a big deal, the Galay are going

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Speaker 1: to exist as I saw sit it for twelve hundred

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Speaker 1: years and range from Britain to Turkey. Just fucking wild.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's so widespread.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like articles where like, oh, we on earthed

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Speaker 1: another transgender from Rome in northern Britain or whatever. Not

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Speaker 1: northern Britain, but the northern part of England where the

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Speaker 1: Romans got to what And yeah, because you know, Rome

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Speaker 1: colonized lots of places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild.

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Speaker 1: And so the subtext I've read implies that Sibilly was

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Speaker 1: more popular among the people than the elite. And I

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Speaker 1: like that because it's something I run across a lot,

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Speaker 1: and it runs against a lot of the populist anti

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Speaker 1: queer propaganda that claims gay people only live in like

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Speaker 1: coastal cities or whatever the fuck, because I also think

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Speaker 1: that there's this dichotomy in queer culture between like upstanding

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Speaker 1: queer culture and like criminal queerness, and often like criminal

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Speaker 1: queerness runs all throughout history, where people are violent and

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Speaker 1: wild and untamed are often gayer, Like, yeah, if you're

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Speaker 1: on the outskirts of society, it's actually gayer, even though

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Speaker 1: people are performing masculinity like crazy. As someone who did

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Speaker 1: a lot of beard on beard kissing while living in squats,

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Speaker 1: and I first started feeling safe wearing dresses while like

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Speaker 1: literally sleeping under bridges with hoboes who liked to knife fight. Sure,

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Speaker 1: And so I appreciate this about this history because Sibilly

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Speaker 1: worshiped reached Italy before it reached Rome, it reached the

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Speaker 1: outskirts before it hit civilization. The countryside saw more and

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Speaker 1: more worship of this trans loving nature goddess. And there's

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Speaker 1: a decent chance that both her acceptance in Athens and

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Speaker 1: later in Rome, was that the powerful realized they couldn't

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Speaker 1: stop her worship, so it's better to contain it and

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Speaker 1: let it serve as this pre us valve. Let it

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Speaker 1: become acceptable theology before it blows the whole thing apart.

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Speaker 1: So for hundreds of years people are worshiping Sibylly or

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Speaker 1: Magnu matar as one of the ways it was called

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Speaker 1: in Rome, in the countryside in Italy, and it became

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Speaker 1: an official part of the state religion in two hundred

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Speaker 1: and four BCE.

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Speaker 2: What that's so wild, that's like very It is interesting

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Speaker 2: where you're talking about the dichotomy of queerness and the

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Speaker 2: sort of upstanding people who distance themselves from the wild crazy,

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Speaker 2: Like that's the difference between like being gay and being queer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in some ways, which you're both fine. Honestly, I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to come for people who want a simpler life.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, as long as you don't vote my rights away, Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like when you're talking about the galley, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like the LGB people who are like, is the

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Speaker 2: tea part of it? Like really, like maybe the tea

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Speaker 2: isn't part of it, and so the reason.

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Speaker 1: That we can be like, you know, we're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they show up in Greece and then then like Rome,

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Speaker 1: we're like two o four BCE because basically Rome came

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Speaker 1: crawling to Sibylly the Goddess and being like, we fucking

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Speaker 1: need you. Because in two oh five BCE you have

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Speaker 1: this whole Second Punic War that is entirely over my

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Speaker 1: head because I am a Spanish civil war once a

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Speaker 1: week thinker, not a Rome once a week thinker.

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Speaker 2: She's not like other girls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the you have this whole Second Punic

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Speaker 1: War going on, and the Romans are like, something's got

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Speaker 1: to happen. We're gonna go talk to the oracle because

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Speaker 1: we're in this war. And also stones keep falling out

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Speaker 1: of the sky and we're like starting to get kind

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Speaker 1: of freaked out.

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Speaker 2: Is that true?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that they seem to be writing about it might

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Speaker 1: have been like more asteroids than normal they knew about,

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Speaker 1: you know, asteroids and shit, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe it would happen more often.

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Speaker 1: And so they go to the oracle and the oracle

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Speaker 1: is like, you will win this war if you build

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Speaker 1: a temple for Magna Mater in Rome for Sybilly. And

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Speaker 1: so the Romans go to a mantter shrine in Anatolia

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Speaker 1: and they're like, can we bring monster to Rome? And

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, sure, here's the meteorite we used to

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Speaker 1: represent her on Earth or whatever. They're like, town mascot.

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Speaker 2: Why well, what's in it for the oracle? Why would

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Speaker 2: the oracle just pick this goddess out of thin air?

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Speaker 1: I bet she liked her. I bet she was like,

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Speaker 1: I like hanging out with like, you know, wild ladies

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Speaker 1: and shit.

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Speaker 2: She's like, Galay, I got you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my oracle says yea, hey God, I have Siby here.

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Speaker 1: And it might have been like, you know, Sybilly is

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Speaker 1: like representing this like untamable spirit or something right, and

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Speaker 1: maybe it's like you need a little bit more of

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Speaker 1: that in your mix in order to win this war,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Cut.

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Speaker 1: I mean the Galay aren't like warriors, but like whatever.

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Speaker 1: And so the Romans bring Manser over as a space stone,

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Speaker 1: like as a little asteroid rock into Rome with great

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Speaker 1: pomp and fanfare. The boat is met with parades and

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Speaker 1: they like, bring the goddess this little rock kind of

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Speaker 1: like a Jamie Leftis has a pet rock. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is like everything that you have described, like

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Speaker 2: every two sentences could be its own movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, this.

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Speaker 2: Is also I'm just picturing like this asteroid coming on

365
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Speaker 2: a boat, like every visual is so insane. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like amalgamation of things.

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Speaker 1: I like, I know, there's so many of these things

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Speaker 1: that keep running a cross being like why aren't these

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Speaker 1: more movies about these? And usually it's because, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: because it's about gay people or anarchists or whatever, you know.

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Speaker 2: But just the image of a boat with a big rock.

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Speaker 1: On it, Yeah, a little rock. I got no idea

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Speaker 1: to see. They're well funny, Like I think it's funny

374
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Speaker 1: if it's like the size of like your fist, you know,

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Speaker 1: like on a pillow. I think that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: But I actually don't know. I got a pillow. Yeah,

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00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: that part.

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Speaker 2: I love it so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, people have whole PhD's about this shit, but I

380
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time reading about it this week.

381
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Speaker 1: So I'm the expert.

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Speaker 2: Right in, if you have a PhD. Right in and

383
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Speaker 2: let us know if the rock was big or small.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And by one ninety one BCE, they finished building

385
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Speaker 1: the temple right in the center of Rome on Palatine

386
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Speaker 1: Hill has got a courtyard and columns and a fountain

387
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: and all the bells and whistles.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

389
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: And the Romans have to add their own spin on

390
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 1: this lady. And maybe the biggest change is all a sudden,

391
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: poor Sibylly is a fertility goddess. No, she didn't want that,

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00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I guess she was like,

393
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's been a while, I'm ready to pop

394
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Speaker 1: out some kids. I don't know. And the upside is

395
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Speaker 1: that her icons are drawn with a lot of children,

396
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: but also lots of like genitals just drawn on everything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, uh, I can't win them all, but it's like,

398
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 2: it's so interesting to me to have this woman. And

399
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 2: then because I don't think she decided she wanted to

400
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Speaker 2: be a fertility god.

401
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,919
Speaker 1: No, I suspect not.

402
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 2: I think they were like, hey, you gotta be a

403
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 2: fertility god. Yeah, like when an influencer becomes a tradwife

404
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: because of the brand deals.

405
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, much like our brand deals, which are the following,

406
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: Hey I did it, and we're back. Okay. So she's

407
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: still this wild goddess, but they're also making her a

408
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: little bit more she's like the protector of Rome now,

409
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: and so they are doing this like she's not just wilderness,

410
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: she's urban. She can do it all, but everyone knows

411
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: she's a foreign import, and specifically her and her followers

412
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: get accused all the time of being too sexual, like

413
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: this foreign hussy is corrupting our culture, even though Rome

414
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: is literally where they decided to make it about sex.

415
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 1: She wasn't about sex before that kind of like how

416
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 1: today trans women are called groomers by people who marry

417
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: literal children.

418
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Speaker 2: I mean very that. But it's also like, I'm sure

419
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 2: there's so many books I could read about this, but

420
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: there's female gods, and then there's so hated for the things.

421
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: That people decide they are.

422
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, girl, you made her that?

423
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, why are you mad at her?

424
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 2: Just make her? Not that you didn't have it before.

425
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: I'm like starting to be of the like Rome ruined

426
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: everything theory of history.

427
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,959
Speaker 2: Sure, Rome the Ronald Reagan of the world.

428
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, that's the like chart you know where

429
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: everything gets bad. Yeah, although Ronald Reagan didn't want to

430
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: get into a nuclear war, so that's better than the

431
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: current present.

432
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Speaker 2: I've now been seeing a lot of stuff about he

433
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: actually would be considered a Democrat.

434
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: Today probably, And that's not saying anything party.

435
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: No very bad about the Democrats, But I like, okay,

436
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: so they bring her in, they say, not only is

437
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: she a foign hussy, but now she's got all these

438
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: nefarious intentions regarding sex. But like, did I think she's real?

439
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't know to what degree people use the gods

440
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: as metaphors or literal in the ancient times? Right, hard

441
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: to say, because I like, I find religion a useful metaphor, right,

442
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 1: Like that is a thing that is useful for my

443
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: own life. Yeah, me too, And and so I get

444
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: like really confused when people are like bearded guy in

445
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: the sky and I'm like, what.

446
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: You could choose anything?

447
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's like some of the things that people use,

448
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: Like there's like monotheistic stuff that is interesting to me

449
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: by using that as a metaphor, right, I guess I

450
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: would say it's like a both. When I think of

451
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: my polytheistic friends who like truly believe, they believe that

452
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: they create and empower gods, and gods are like real,

453
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: but in this way that doesn't really exist in a

454
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: materialistic world.

455
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: They need someone to believe in them in order to exist,

456
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 2: kind of like Santa Claus.

457
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind of a like it's a thing you

458
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: can access by believing in them, Okay. I like that,

459
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: Like if you need to embody a certain idea, you're

460
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: going to talk to this certain like god. And I

461
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: think about like we did some episodes about the Haitian

462
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 1: revolution a while ago, and the way that like Voto

463
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: practitioners like bring down spirits to ride them and become

464
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: like yeah people, you know, it's like there's a real

465
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 1: power in that, right, And that was a power that

466
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: destroyed the French rule of Haiti, you know, because they

467
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: were like I'm empowering myself with the idea of I

468
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck anymore, right right, right? You know.

469
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:30,719
Speaker 2: I love that.

470
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: It's like the muses. So in some ways it like

471
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: almost doesn't matter whether they are self aware of using

472
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: it as a metaphor or not. That would be my theory.

473
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: And I I would fucking give almost anything to go

474
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,959
Speaker 1: back and talk to some gallet and be like what

475
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: do you think you know? Because they didn't really write that.

476
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: We have the writing of it, that's the thing.

477
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't tell their own stories.

478
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is I don't know, I get it, like

479
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: annoyed when people are like, oh, own voices, this is

480
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: all that matters, and I'm like, ah, does it And

481
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, but it does matter too. It's

482
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: like part of what matters, you know.

483
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: At least in a nonfiction sense.

484
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the Galley come with Sibilly, and this scared

485
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: the shit out of Roman society, and the galley were

486
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: held in contempt by the laws of society. The laws

487
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: were like, Romans can't join them. And the historian that

488
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: I keep quoting Ka Lucker pointed out, and I'm paraphrasing here,

489
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: it is well understood in sociology that a society only

490
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: outlaws something if people are trying to do it right.

491
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: They're not making up new laws. So like people want

492
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: to be galley, romans are trying to join them. They

493
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: were popular among some people, despite being despised and ostracized

494
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: by much of society, and people would sometimes get exiled

495
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: for joining. One time, there was a galley named Janutius,

496
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: and she was denied her inheritance because the law was like, oh,

497
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: only men and women can inherit property and out a

498
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: man or a woman legally, which means that they are

499
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: legally a third gender. But Janutius wasn't able to speak

500
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: in court to defend herself because just by being in

501
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: court with her presence and voice, she would have polluted it.

502
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: You know what's so interesting, it's not them going no,

503
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: you're actually a man. It's them going you're a third thing.

504
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: And we don't like that either, Yeah, totally, which like

505
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: to compare to the Baden of medieval England. The reason

506
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: we know about them is some old laws that are like,

507
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: I like, if a man sleeps with a baden, it's

508
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: a crime. If a woman sleeps with the bad and

509
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: it's a crime. If a bad and sleeps with another

510
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: bad and it's a crime. But they're all different crimes

511
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: or like different and so like we know we exist

512
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: because it was illegal for us to fuck. Yes, yes,

513
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: but we are legally distinct from both men and women.

514
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly. Wow, that's so interesting.

515
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

516
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then did the go a live at the temple?

517
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? I believe so.

518
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: Okay, cute little model house like in America's next time.

519
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: I will take your word for it. The things that

520
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: I've read imply that they were kind of a happy

521
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: little society amongst themselves. It seems like it they weren't

522
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: allowed to bury their dead inside the city. I don't

523
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: know whether this is just Athens or just Rome. The

524
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: two sources are confusing between the two. So they had

525
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: a unique death ritual. The dead Galla was carried out

526
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: of the city by her comrades and buried under stones

527
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: outside the city, and then her friends would wait seven

528
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: days before returning to the city and getting back to work.

529
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: They sat shiva. Is that a thing is to like

530
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: go hang out with the dead for a week.

531
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: When a Jewish person dies, you sit in your house

532
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 2: for seven days. There's other rituals and stuff around it,

533
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: but you're supposed to stick around for seven days.

534
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: That's cool.

535
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called sitting shiva. And you're supposed to cover

536
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: all your mirrors and you're supposed to tear your clothing. Yeah.

537
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: People come and visit you, They bring you food. A

538
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: rabbi comes and prays at your house every day.

539
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: Jews have some good death rights. I have a lot

540
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: of Jewish friends who like once a year the yard site.

541
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: It must be like celebrating the death of someone. And

542
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 1: then like my friend like who whenever she stays at

543
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: my house like sings songs and like likes candles and

544
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: stuff for the dead, and.

545
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the yard site candle.

546
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

547
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: One funny thing is I went to a non Jewish

548
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: friend's house one time and they had a bunch of

549
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: yard site candles and I was like what and they

550
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: were like, oh, they're like a dollar at the store.

551
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, those are Jewish death candles.

552
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: Oh, that's funny. It's like the equivalent of how everyone

553
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: has like the prayer candles from like Latin American exactly.

554
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but theirs has Beyonce on net.

555
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally uh huh yeah, which, honestly, and Catholics mess

556
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: is fine from my point of view. Yeah, ghost syncretic

557
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: who cares. And so the Romans are obsessed with hierarchy,

558
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: and so they add a person in charge and they

559
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: do this in a way that probably sucks. They make

560
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: an arch Gallas, one Gallas to rule the rest of them.

561
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: And this Gallas probably didn't castraight. And I'm gonna say himself,

562
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: not just because he has a dick, but like he

563
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: seems to be an appointee from the city to watch

564
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: over these wild women. What I know, And I don't

565
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: know whether that looked like the doctor at the asylum

566
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: or like it's so fucked up, I know, like they

567
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: clearly can take care of themselves. Get Chad out of here,

568
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I know. And reading this makes me think because Caesar

569
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: claims that the Druids had arch Druids, and I'm like,

570
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: did they or you just Roman? So you just assume

571
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: there's a fucking hierarchy everywhere there's an arch whatever the fuck?

572
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: You know.

573
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: This is like when the cops tried to ask us

574
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: who in front of the detention center downtown was in

575
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: charge and who was bringing us Yeah, and then we

576
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: were like, no one.

577
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

578
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 2: They could not wrap their minds around it.

579
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it like genuinely doesn't compute to a hierarchical organizational

580
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: model that anyone would have a model outside of that,

581
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, which has like always been one of

582
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: our strengths, although it has its own weaknesses that we

583
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: just have to learn how to adjust to.

584
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: But so I had trouble tracking exactly which sources we're

586
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: talking about Greek and which we're talking about Roman gallet.

587
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't help that one of the main people writing

588
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: about them was a Greek satirist named Lucian who seemed

589
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: to hate them, who was also writing about them in

590
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: Rome despite being the Greek person. So I'm going to

591
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: conflate the two a little bit.

592
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So he was like, not only do I hate

593
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: them here, I also hate them over there.

594
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: That seems to be the thing. Or he was Greek

595
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: but part of Roman. It fucking I get really annoyed at.

596
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: This satirizing satirizing in what sense, So.

597
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: Like, I think he's kind of a little bit of

598
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: a shock journalists kind of my impression, okay, but I'm

599
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent certain. And he's the only person

600
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: to describe their initiation ceremony, which is again, it's literally

601
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: the same problem we had with the Druids, where the

602
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: only people writing about them were Romans and Greeks who

603
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: kind of didn't like them but also kind of wanted

604
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: to sensationalize things. But also the past is also sensational.

605
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: So like, the thing that I'm about to describe might

606
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: be true, and most people take it as true, and

607
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I've read some stuff that's a little bit skeptical. During

608
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: Dias Sanguinus, the day of Blood on the spring equinox,

609
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: it's this big, wild festival full of ecstatic music and

610
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: dancing put on by the Gallet for the people of

611
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: Rome Warehouse party. Yeah, I think it's in the streets honestly,

612
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure cool spectators would come because who

613
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: can resist a good show. And so they do their

614
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: ecstatic dancing and music and shit and everything's fucking wild,

615
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: and so some of them are so overcome by the

616
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: moment that they go into the center of the crowd,

617
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: they pick up the ritual sword and they castrate themselves.

618
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: That's not the Galley doing that.

619
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: This is how they become Galley.

620
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: So the people that want to join the Galley, they're

621
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: so excited about it.

622
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: But most of these people didn't know they wanted to

623
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: be Galay until the dancing. Up. By the dancing, you

624
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: kiss one girl and suddenly you're a lesbian.

625
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: You know exactly, or you see them having the time

626
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: of their lives. Yeah, and you're like, that's what I'm missing,

627
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: that's what I need to do.

628
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

629
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 2: It's that thing where it's like, oh my god, they

630
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: got surgery so quickly after they just like thought they

631
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: were trans and it's like, no, there's probably a lot

632
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: of stuff bubbling. You don't just go into the middle

633
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: of a crowd and cut your dick off. If that

634
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: hasn't occurred to you a few times beforehand, I know,

635
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: now you're given permission now because the world is so

636
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: celebratory and you're surrounded by people who are like you

637
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: and they seem to be having a good time, You're like, well.

638
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, we're a social contation.

639
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: This is for me? Is this social contagent? If not

640
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: everyone at the thing cuts their dick off, you know? Yeah, no,

641
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: exactly only a few people do. If it was the

642
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: whole party would do it.

643
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would solve some other problems. Never mind, I

644
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: take it back. So it gets even cooler after they

645
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: cut their shit off. And Okay, Historically when people a

646
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: talking about castration in this context, it seems to be

647
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: like sometimes it's like orchaect to me, and sometimes it's

648
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: like the full package.

649
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: Yeah that's what I thought.

650
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're dick right, And so then

651
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: they run through the city holding their jrunk in their

652
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: hands and then throw it at a random house like

653
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: egging a house, but for keeps eh wavos that's my joke. Okay,

654
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: And whoever's house they have egged, the people then have

655
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: to come out and give the new gala women's clothes

656
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: and jewelry.

657
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: This fucking rules is amazing. This is cool as hell.

658
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some adult whatever it shows up my house

659
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: and throws her dick at it. I'm like, all right,

660
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: you get a dress.

661
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. It's like the craziest Halloween treating of all time.

662
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: Totally yeah, your house. I dicked your house. Wow. And

663
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: then they return to the temple and they joined the gallet.

664
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: You're not gonna bleed out right, Like, what's so?

665
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: There is danger here? And yeah, I don't know what

666
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: percentage Because a lot of people were talking about this,

667
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: I starting to talk about it, say like they are

668
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: willing to accept this level of danger that they might

669
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: not survive this thing, right.

670
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: Just kind of pack the wound and let it scab over.

671
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know the actual danger of chopping your

672
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: dick off in the middle of a crowd. I think

673
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: it's reasonably high. But like you know, on a normal day,

674
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: we have like a really low chance of dying. The

675
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: day you shop your dick off in a crowd, you're

676
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: gonna have a higher chance of dying. Does that become

677
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: one percent? Does that become twenty percent. I could not

678
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: tell you. I'll go into my chart. I'll ask my doctor.

679
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: Yeah it's a good idea. Yeah, and bring a little

680
00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: hand drum.

681
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, just curious.

682
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this day, the Day of Blood, was a

683
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: celebration of the sort of demi god of the galley,

684
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: the sort of right hand lady of.

685
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: Sibylly Adis Sick.

686
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: But what Addis liked was ad Nope, this is literally

687
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: the worst AD transition I've ever done. Oh but you're

688
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: stuck with it, Okay, go back for it. Only is

689
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: that her real name? Addis? Yeah, okay, but not with

690
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: a d. H, not with a D. I didn't do

691
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: it on purpose. I wish I had. I wish I

692
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: was that clever. All right, ads, and we're back. So

693
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: when the cult went to Greece, they took this word Addis.

694
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: That was probably either the name of a specific priest

695
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: of matter and Phrygia. It might have been also the

696
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: name for like priests of materire. But basically they're like,

697
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: once the conceptual Addis is in Greece, they're like, all right,

698
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: this is the demigod who's hooking up with Sibylly, and

699
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 1: he is generally seen as the first Gala. He gets

700
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: heat and sheet in various ways. I'm gonna just okay,

701
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna misgender and by accident her.

702
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: Okay, this is interesting.

703
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: And there's a ton of different versions about this myth

704
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: about how this comes to be someone who is more

705
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: than a eunuch but is in fact living as a woman.

706
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: And so these are the origin stories that we know

707
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: is like, this is more than being a eunuch.

708
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.

709
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: In some myths, she starts off as infertile from birth,

710
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: which could mean a lot of things interesting. This includes literally,

711
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: if someone's just like not attracted to women, they could

712
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: be called infertile from birth, or they could be intersects,

713
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: or they could just literally not be fertile for a

714
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: fucking million reasons. In one of these stories, Addis is

715
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: hooking up with probably Sibylly okay, and then he cheats

716
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: andre as a boy in whatever gender sure something, cheat

717
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: meat on her. She's so mad at him that he

718
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: goes crazy and he cuts off his own dick in

719
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: like sorrow and this and this kills him and the

720
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: galet self castraight in Addis's memory. Another poem has adis

721
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: going mad in the woods alone and cutting off her

722
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: own junk with a flint knife. At this point, she

723
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: gets female pronouns in this story, and she picks up

724
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: the drum and dances and then goes to sleep. She

725
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: wakes up and thinks kind of in awe about how

726
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: she's been every kind of person. Wow, and she's super sad.

727
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: But Sibylly sends a lion to drive her insane, but

728
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: like in a good way, in a like free you

729
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: from your sorrow's way.

730
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, like when we up my searcher line.

731
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then Adis goes into the woods and is

732
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: forever after a servant to Sibylly.

733
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: So in one instance, addis Amab.

734
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, always Amab in these stories.

735
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: Okay, addis Amab looking up with Sibley. He cheats on her, Yeah,

736
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: but somehow he's the victim. Classic And then.

737
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's the victim in that. I

738
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: think he's like he's upset.

739
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: He goes insane because she's mad at him. Yeah, it's

740
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: like when your boyfriend is like you know what I mean?

741
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I'm so stupid and starts.

742
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry. Yeah, why would you ever want to

743
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: be with someone like me whatever, you know that kind

744
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:24,959
Speaker 2: of okay.

745
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: Anyways, so then.

746
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: He's like, what, oh, okay, if you don't take me back,

747
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna cut my dick off. Then he cuts

748
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 2: his dick off, and then he dies, and then all

749
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: the gully are like, will cut our dick off because

750
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: of your crazy ex boyfriend?

751
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: Well, when you say it like that, he's in cell coded.

752
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: Deeply in cell coded.

753
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: Oh god, oh you found the darkest version of this story.

754
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: Uh huh? Yeah.

755
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: Or also like, if my friends cut their dicks off

756
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: because of my crazy ex boyfriend, I'd be like, are

757
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: we even friends? Why would you do that?

758
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, more stories about Addis. Oh no, there's so

759
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: many of these. I've only got some of them written down.

760
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: The performative feminist boyfriend Addis.

761
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: Uh. Another story has Addis as a young Phrygian who

762
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: is supposed to stay chased for Meter, but then instead

763
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: falls in love with a Niad, and so Meter kills

764
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: the Naiad by destroying its sacred tree, and so Addis

765
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: runs off into the wilderness and castrates himself because he

766
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: decided his balls were why he was sad? What's a

767
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: naiad like a fucking water dryad. I think I played

768
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: a lot of D and D as a kid. I

769
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: assume I know this, and now I'm worried.

770
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 2: He falls in love with a dolphin.

771
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: No, no, like a naiad is like a nymph whoa

772
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: got it, got it?

773
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: Got it?

774
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

775
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: Okay. So then he runs away dramatically cuts his own

776
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: balls off because that's what's making him sad, because.

777
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: His desire for sex was making him sad. I guess

778
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: because he like was supposed to say, chased and he failed.

779
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: So now he's like, ah.

780
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: He's so dramatic. Oh my god, dude, have you considered

781
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: just being regular?

782
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: No, adis is not. Neither has any trans woman ever

783
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: said we earned our reputation, and in a positive way,

784
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: I'll say so. In another Greek tale, this one's like

785
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: less og okay, Zeus falls asleep and has a wet dream,

786
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: and his wet dream creates Agdustus, who is sybilly and

787
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: is an intersects god with the two main sets of genitals.

788
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: Agnustus freaked out the gods so much that they cut

789
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: off Agnustus's dick, which then sprouted into an almond tree

790
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: and a nymph ate one of the almonds and it

791
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: got her pregnant, and she gives birth to Adis, who

792
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: was then raised by a goat. And then Adis is

793
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: getting married to someone but then saw Agdustus and then

794
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: goes crazy at the wedding and castraates both himself and

795
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: his father in law. Okay, and what does Syby have.

796
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: To do with this?

797
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: Agus is Sibilly?

798
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 2: Oh? Got it?

799
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: Got It's just like some syncretic shit. So in this case,

800
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: Sibilly is intersex.

801
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, this story is insane, Like is there an

802
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: explanation for like were these people like eating berries that

803
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: made them high? Like what is that explanation? Is it

804
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: just like if you don't have anything else, you're just

805
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: very creative.

806
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: I think it's echo chamber shit. I think it's like

807
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: if everyone's telling you like, yeah, yeah, totally, Zeus would

808
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: totally do that, and then you're like yeah, and then

809
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: it would like create an almonary and everyone's like yeah, no, absolutely,

810
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: and so I was like I don't think that they

811
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: would create an almonary and they're like no, you just

812
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: get how could you think that? That's My best guess.

813
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: It's like when you're playing like with a little kid

814
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: and the kids like and now my dinosaur can fly,

815
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: and you're like okay, yeah, and they're like, no, the

816
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: reason that you can't actually have your power introde that

817
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 2: is because mine has a force field. And you're like, okay,

818
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: and that's what this is. Like, No, he had a

819
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: wet dream and it turned into an almond and she

820
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: ate the almond and she's pregnant. Duh.

821
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why the goat raised him. And then

822
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: then yeah, yeah.

823
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: And then you have to just be like, you're right,

824
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: I'm stupid.

825
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one is the most Greek myth of all

826
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: of them, but it's just like a tragic, weird story.

827
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, whatever, And a lot of them

828
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: are just like, oh, I went into a cave and

829
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: then was overcome by like ecstatic madness and self castrated,

830
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: and you know, went off to go worship the goddess.

831
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: Why are they obsessed with castrating?

832
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: Well, so in this case, this is a specific I

833
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: don't want to say Greek culture is obsessed with castrating,

834
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: but I would say that, like a lot of historical

835
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: societies are, I've only read about some of them. I

836
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: was reading about this cult in Siberia in the eighteenth

837
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: and nineteenth century. That was like, oh my god, it

838
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: was an ecstatic dancing cult where they like cut off

839
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: their own dicks. See, yeah, I think ecstatic dancing is

840
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: associated with the shit don't let your children go to

841
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: raves if you don't want them to become trans girls.

842
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: And put that on a pillow.

843
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's another story about the First Gale, and

844
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 1: this one is not Attis but a guy named Combabos

845
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: who castrated himself for the Syrian goddess Adergatis, whose followers

846
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: would castrate themselves. But this is the like not just

847
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: uniq story. This woman falls in love with a unit Combabos,

848
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: but when she realized he didn't have a dick, she

849
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: does what anyone would do and kill herself in her sorrow.

850
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: And ever since, the Galley have worn women's clothes, so

851
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: it's to not seduce women. And I can just go

852
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: ahead and say that that was not written by someone

853
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: who has a trans woman's experience, because wearing women's clothes

854
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: doesn't make you less attractive to women. I'll just go

855
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: ahead and say that.

856
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: No. If anything, it's well, I guess I'm not a woman.

857
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: When I was a woman, it was one of my

858
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: top tiers.

859
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, yeah, I think it's interesting because it's

860
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: like saying, like, oh, the solution here is to become

861
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: a woman, like to fit the social role of women,

862
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: instead of trying to go through life in this social

863
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: role of Unich, which is an existing social role within

864
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: a lot of these cultures. And I don't know as

865
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: much about it. I've watched Game of Thrones and read

866
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: some history.

867
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: But it's like, so nobody could be like, we should

868
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: just wholesale do life as women because that's basically what

869
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: we are and we don't want to confuse anyone.

870
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of a bit of what's

871
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: happening here. And like, again, we don't have any gallet

872
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: saying why they did it. Maddening, I know. But what's

873
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: interesting that the Klucker. The reason I really like her piece,

874
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: I assume it's her. Oh my god, I'm making rud assumptions.

875
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: I don't know why I really like this person's piece

876
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: is that that author says, like, you know, what historians

877
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: are missing is the transgender experience is understanding this is

878
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: a way that people feel creech, And so this author

879
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: is able to come in and say like I can

880
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: actually offer. And they're an academic and they're presenting all

881
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: the academic arguments, but they're like, but the thing that

882
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: actually fits all the data we have is that they're

883
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: fucking trans people who have always existed and like in

884
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: different ways in different societies, but this is a way

885
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: to be trans in that society. And that because you're like,

886
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: why did they do it? And like, I don't know,

887
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: the music was good and I always kind of wanted

888
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 1: to do I don't know.

889
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: You know, like, yeah, did you ever see the movie

890
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: Stress Positions? No, it's by a trans woman. It's like

891
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: more recent movie by a trans woman named Feta Hamilton,

892
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: I believe. And there's a part in it where this

893
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: younger guy who is like questioning has like trans women.

894
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: It's like me, I don't know, yeah, and a little

895
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: eggy is talking to the trans woman character and is

896
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: like being so when did you first realize the we're

897
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: a woman, and she just goes, I don't know. I

898
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: just kind of wanted to kill myself and then this helped. Yeah,

899
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 2: totally always think about I think about that all the time.

900
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to shout out my nun on again, please,

901
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: I have a cousin who's trans who came out before

902
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: I did.

903
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: Wow, rude, Oh, I.

904
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: Have so many trans cousins. This is the beautiful thing

905
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: about being part of a lot of Catholic families. I

906
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: have a lot of cousins. I've got like thirty something cousins.

907
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: I don't have any cousins.

908
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I have more than I literally

909
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: can keep track of it any given time. And so

910
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm sitting at Christmas next to Sister Dominic and my

911
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: cousin comes in and I'm not going to say my

912
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: cousin's name.

913
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: But Hummingbird.

914
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: My cousin humming Bird to throw back, yeah, exactly, And

915
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: my aunt says, now, who's that? And I'm like, oh,

916
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: that's humming Bird. She's a woman now. And Sister Dominic,

917
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: eighty year old, none is like, I bet she's always

918
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: felt that way.

919
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh, and a conversation perfect.

920
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: And it's funny, is it's like I talked to a

921
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: Hummingbird about it and she was like, no, I didn't

922
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: always feel that way. I just like, when I was

923
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: like twenty two or something, I realized this possibility.

924
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: And I know we're not allowed to tell six people

925
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: that yet I know.

926
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, mine was that. I was like, I think that

927
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: I had one idea of my gender and then what

928
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: trans was moved to include it.

929
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: You know. Wow, Okay, I love that. I love that.

930
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: But anyway, so you have the galley. Yeah, they don't

931
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: eat pigs, they don't touch doves. I could not tell

932
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: you why. They also kind of had the original. I

933
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: don't know if all of them ate only this diet,

934
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: but the Holy Food for Sibilly, the Sacramental food is

935
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: the original paleo diet trend, not what we call paleo,

936
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 1: but specifically because meter prefers to eat pre civilized food.

937
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: The food, the original food, greens and cheese, like vegetables

938
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: and cheese. Yeah.

939
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: I love that.

940
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it seems like a pretty good diet.

941
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, very down mostly. I think that's kind of my

942
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: diet now. Yeah, yeah, I know.

943
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: I explain this to people and I'm like, yeah, no,

944
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: that sounds nice. I'm like, well, I want bread, but

945
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: that's because I'm civilized. I've been sure.

946
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: Greens, cheese and then just a little pop tard as

947
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: a treat.

948
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, olive oil and bread and top. Yeah huh oh,

949
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 1: I'm so hungry. Okay, So the Galley would drive people

950
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: into madness, but a pleasant madness with their wild, untamable music.

951
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: They would walk around town in brightly colored robes, begging

952
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: for alms and accompanied by floutists. And the noise they

953
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: produced was to remember how meater. You know, Sibilly hid

954
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: the god Jupiter from Saturn when Saturn was trying to

955
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: do his whole devour all of his children thing. Yeah,

956
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: so Meter hid Jupiter and then made a huge noise

957
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: to cover up juice Butter's crying, Oh my god. And

958
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: so this is the like holy noise to reflect keeping

959
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: this child safe from its like murderous father.

960
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: But we don't know what it sounds like.

961
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: There's actually some people who get mad if you call

962
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: them reconstructionists, who say that they have found the original

963
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: drumming patterns, and I have only their word for it

964
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: off of their website, which is galay dot org or

965
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: calm or something. I'll talk about them a little at

966
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: the end.

967
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: Incredible.

968
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: But I like this story because trans women have always

969
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: been associated with noise music. It's in our blood, which

970
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: actually used to piss me off a lot. I once

971
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: played this show. I like I had a synth band

972
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: and it's a solo project, but it's like not a

973
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: noise band. I was like, very like, it's like, you know,

974
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: it has noticeable rhythms and yeah, music theory and whatever.

975
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: I went to go play this show at this punk bar.

976
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: I would hang out it all the time, and I

977
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: like walk in with my like synthesizer under my arm

978
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: and shit, and someone looks up and goes, oh, I

979
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: didn't know there was a noise show later tonight, and

980
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm just a trans woman.

981
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: Well you're like, what are you talking about. I walk

982
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: around with this all the time. Yeah, I actually legally

983
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: have to carry it.

984
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, in order to flag my gender. Yeah right, it's.

985
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: Sort of part of the thing. They're making me bring

986
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 2: it to the airport. It's a whole deal.

987
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Yeah, in order to get my ID to work.

988
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're at the DMV with your synthesize. Yeah.

989
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 1: They put me in the trans line.

990
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

991
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another thing that trans women have always been associated with.

992
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: And this has much more to do with being ostracized

993
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: by society and sex work.

994
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: Oh so it's not flautists.

995
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah no. Unfortunately, although if we go far enough into euphemism,

996
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 1: it is. But yes, in Rome, the Galley were wild

997
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: and exotic and sexual and corrupting, so absolutely, at least

998
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: in the accounts of them. They're often sex workers. Whether

999
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: or not they are, I don't fucking know. It's written

1000
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: as slander. It doesn't need to be fuck that. Yeah,

1001
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: fuck anyone whoives people shiit for doing sex work. They

1002
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: also seem to usually but not always, lose their connection

1003
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: to their family when they come out as oh, oh

1004
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: my god, yeah, nothing changes, this is wow. Most dropped

1005
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: their family names, and the Galley weren't allowed to get

1006
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: married because they couldn't have kids. Was a big part

1007
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: of why they weren't allowed to get married. And the

1008
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: only role for this legal third sex was as priestess.

1009
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: And they had each other. They had each other, and

1010
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: they had the goddess, and the Galley spoke for the

1011
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: goddess like one of the most important gods right, And

1012
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: Sibylly had her own form of poetry, Galliambic meter ah

1013
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: okay is a meter of poetry that exists for the

1014
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: Galley to speak for Sibylly. I am not a big

1015
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: classical poetry buff in terms of like meter and stuff,

1016
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: but I looked it up and I found one English

1017
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: poem written in this form by Tennyson. Okay, I've actually

1018
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: brought up Tennyson before in the show. I think he's

1019
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: not a lefty, but I've brought him up before because

1020
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: he wrote the poem that Charge of the Light Brigade,

1021
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: which was meant to be this patriotic ode to people

1022
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: who like charged it a certain death. But then if

1023
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: people read it now, it sounds like a critique of militarism,

1024
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: but he like didn't mean it as one. But he

1025
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: writes all this like ancient British patriotic poetry. But the

1026
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: example I found is from a poem called Boadicea, and

1027
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: Boadicea is named after probably a future friend of the

1028
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: pod even though she's a British icon, and that fucks

1029
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: with my brain. She was a Celtic queen who led

1030
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: her people into war against the invading Romans in sixty CE.

1031
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 2: Okay, so a lot of goddesses had our big and

1032
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: in charge of stuff, a lot of queens. A lot

1033
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: of it's interesting.

1034
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is that, like the rest

1035
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: of the world besides Roman Greece was like, ah, women

1036
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: are in charge of shit and fight sometimes whatever, who cares.

1037
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. There was a lot of goddesses women

1038
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah.

1039
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: And I'm flattening it a little bit, but only a

1040
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: little bit, and like not metaphorical like goddesses. I keep

1041
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: calling the metaphors, but like there's just like a lot

1042
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: of like warrior queens who are fucking up Greece and Rome.

1043
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, they're just like women who it's almost

1044
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: like they're put on a pedestal and also denegrated at

1045
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: the same time.

1046
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, which nothing ever changes. Well, but it's interesting is

1047
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: that I haven't looked into this as much as I

1048
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: would like to. I started down this side quest and

1049
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: then I was like, this is a different episode the Amazons,

1050
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: partly because I was looking for trans mask representation in

1051
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: this episode, because it's like a transwomen, right. If you

1052
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: go back to Sumer, you get some trans men stuff

1053
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: going on, right, because a Nani could transform people either way.

1054
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 1: Oh true, and would also like specifically give afab priests,

1055
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: would be given spears and like turned into men or whatever.

1056
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 2: You know, Sure, we have muland we don't need more representation.

1057
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: So the Amazons are, in a weird way a sort

1058
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: of trans MAScin representation, but they're mythological, right. But in

1059
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: Greece you have these like warrior women and they are

1060
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: presented as women, but they're also cutting at least one

1061
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: of their tits and they're taking these very masculine roles

1062
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 1: and they're living in this world without men. And what's

1063
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: interesting is, again I haven't fallen as far down this

1064
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: rabbit hole as I would like, is that basically the

1065
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: Greeks built up a mythology of being, Like they looked

1066
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: around and we're like, all of these women keep killing

1067
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: us with bows from horseback anytime we like go east

1068
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: into the steps, you know. Yeah, And so a society

1069
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: with gender equality or at least better opportunities for women

1070
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: was seen as this terrifying mythical place where women were

1071
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: basically men and the men were basically dead. And sounds

1072
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: cool to me, I know, there's no notes. Yeah, And

1073
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: there are modern pagan reconstructionists of Sibylly, like the Maytrum

1074
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: of Sibylly, who are women living in at Upstate New

1075
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 1: York who got their start nineteen ninety eight. I literally

1076
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: only know about them from their website at the very

1077
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: last minute. I'm not shouting them out specifically, they might

1078
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: be fine. I just don't know, you know, Is it.

1079
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 2: Just like a Geocity site from nineteen ninety eight.

1080
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: No, it actually updated their webpage was because I ran

1081
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: across it in an article, but from a while ago,

1082
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, they're still around, and they're like,

1083
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: they're still around. Their website is like, hey, we updated

1084
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: our web page finally, you know. And they say that

1085
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: the Matrum is open to all, regardless of gender, gender identity, race,

1086
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: ethnic background, or sexual orientation. Our theology starts from the

1087
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: simplest basis, the divine feminine principles, the basis of the universe,

1088
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: where all the great mother learning about ourselves. And they

1089
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: started as a place for trans women to recover from

1090
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: transition and get their shit together, and soon started to

1091
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: include all women. And they're horizontally organized. Each priestess is

1092
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: the other's equal. They have a radio station that's part

1093
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: of the Veterans of the Pod pacifica radio public radio network. Okay, again,

1094
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: I don't know shit about them besides what they've said,

1095
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: but I am happy when people make the world more interesting.

1096
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. And that's what I got about the GLEG

1097
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: people who won't touch doves who hang out and play

1098
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: wild music that incites people the social contagion. They're corrupting

1099
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: the U. And they lived in some ways beautiful lives,

1100
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: but they were ostracized from their families and stuff.

1101
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: You said. They took care of each other. It was

1102
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: like a sisterhood, like a closeness.

1103
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: That it seems to be. Yeah, I mean.

1104
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: So they found each other, and I wish we could

1105
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: hear from them, because I'm sure there were so many

1106
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: things that they knew amongst themselves that they obviously would

1107
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 2: not have shared outside of that. And also, yeah, you're right,

1108
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: a lot of the depiction was very sensationalized, very like

1109
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: who knows if they even did the dick cutting in person.

1110
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, it might have been like a

1111
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: sacred thing. Later they asked somebody just an orchaectomies.

1112
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 2: Right, It's just like this. It is like what you said,

1113
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 2: where they just dig up in the future every New

1114
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 2: York Times headline about trans people and then decide that's

1115
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: what it was like to be trans.

1116
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so what.

1117
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 2: Happened to the galley? They? Where did they go after that?

1118
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: They just stop? They died out?

1119
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like Rome Christian and Nizes and the

1120
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: pagan religions are like suppressed by the Christians. And I

1121
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: don't know about what the Cult of the Galley does

1122
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: like and the Cult of Sibylly does post the Christianization.

1123
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: I would love to read more about it, but I

1124
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: just don't know yet.

1125
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: Wow, But then now modern day you think it's kind

1126
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: of like this group has sort of I really like,

1127
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 2: as I get older, I'm starting to really enjoy people

1128
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: who have taken old things and just preserved them.

1129
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like so.

1130
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: That you know, and you know, here's the old way

1131
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: we used to make milk. Just want you to keep

1132
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 2: knowing about it. Yeah, it might need it someday, yeah,

1133
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: or well, but it's just kind of like these oh

1134
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 2: I've learned all these stances from you know, the eighteen hundreds,

1135
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: just want to keep them just in case. So like

1136
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm trans and I had not heard

1137
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: of this before. Yeah, even though we do, like you

1138
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: said in the first part, we do say, oh, trans

1139
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: people have always existed. It's it's deeper than we even

1140
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: say with that tagline. Yeah, it's so much deeper. And

1141
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 2: like the ways of being a different gender. You could

1142
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 2: do a podcast like this till fucking end of time,

1143
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: just covering all the different ways people have come up

1144
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 2: with doing it, you know, because we can flate them

1145
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: down to very simple things, you know, not simple, but

1146
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: like we take like the two spirit idea, you know,

1147
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 2: which is like a different type of gender deviance in

1148
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: a different society, But then we're flattening a lot of

1149
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: societies to come up with that, right, right, And like

1150
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: the Hazra thing from South Asia. You know, there's like

1151
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 2: so many different ways of being what I'm going to

1152
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: call trans which is like you could pedantically attack me

1153
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: for and I would be kind of fair, because I

1154
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: get really sad when people think, oh, we know what's up,

1155
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: and we look back at the old ways of being

1156
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 2: trands and we're like, oh, those they didn't know what

1157
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: we know.

1158
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know what they know. I don't

1159
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: know shit exactly. We have ways that work for us

1160
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: in ways that don't work for us. And as someone

1161
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: like I sometimes look back at the Beten and I

1162
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: don't know much about them, But as someone who has

1163
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I'll be reasonably personal on this. My

1164
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: problem is not my body. My problem is the gender

1165
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: assumptions the society has about who I should be based

1166
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: on my body, you know. And so sometimes I look

1167
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: back at older things and I can kind of resonate

1168
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: with it more than the modern, very medicalized approach, right,

1169
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: But other people would look back and be like, fuck,

1170
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't have access to these things that save my life. Right,

1171
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: And there's so many ways of being trands even now,

1172
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: And I think it's beautiful to realize that, you know,

1173
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: not just like go digging around through history and be

1174
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: like I'm that now or whatever, right, but like we

1175
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: could understand there's so many ways to express gender. And

1176
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: also just like as we start unpacking that, like literally

1177
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: the oldest language in the world talks about a goddess

1178
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: who makes you trans right, we have, which means that

1179
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: cultures that are older than that probably fucking have that.

1180
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: Like the Victorian idea of like man is penis and

1181
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: girl is vagina is some fucking modern shit like you

1182
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: were talking about with like Ice. You know, you're like,

1183
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: that's just twenty years old. Most people listening to this

1184
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: are older than Ice, And like I've like met people

1185
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: who are older than like immigration law in the United States. Oh,

1186
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: I guess we have the alien exclusion active whatever. But like,

1187
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: the modern border is a fucking new and bad idea.

1188
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: It is, And people are like, oh, my answers just

1189
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: came over the right way because because there wasn't a

1190
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: wrong way. I mean, actually they did come over the

1191
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: wrong way because they killed in genocide in order to

1192
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: do it. But like, but that's not who they're talking about. Yeah, yeah, anyway,

1193
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: that's my rant.

1194
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree with you about looking back

1195
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: because it gives us more options for what it's like

1196
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 2: to even engage with gender even if you're a SIS person. Totally,

1197
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: And I really loved hearing about all of this. I

1198
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 2: really I loved knowing just yeah, knowing more about what

1199
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: it was like to be gender variant, even if they

1200
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 2: never actually through their penises at houses.

1201
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm willing to let them have. Usually

1202
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: when people talk shit on us, I'm like, yeah, but

1203
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: I'll own it, Like, okay, hear me out. I have

1204
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: a friend who went to prison for property destruction because

1205
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: he went to a protest and he was accused of

1206
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: breaking every window that was broken by a black block

1207
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: at a protest. It was physically impossible for him to

1208
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: have broken all of those windows, but he did the time.

1209
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: I hold that he can claim to have broken every

1210
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: single one of those windows.

1211
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: Okay, I like it.

1212
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: We might not have thrown our dicks at houses, but

1213
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm willing to pretend like we did because we had

1214
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: the social ostracization for it, so we might as well

1215
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: get the like, yeah, fuck it, whatever I like. Actually,

1216
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: it was a very deeply personal thing that I did

1217
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: it with the consultation of priestesses, and we had a

1218
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: very beautiful ritual. But yeah, I fucking threw my dick

1219
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: at a house. Fuck. Yeah.

1220
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: You know how when the drag queens are doing their

1221
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: numbers and inevitably some trans mask is walking behind them

1222
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: with like a basket to put the ones in. That's me.

1223
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: All of you guys are throwing your dicks at houses

1224
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 2: and I have a little basket behind you just picking

1225
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 2: them up.

1226
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: Oh. I just want the Sci fi store where you

1227
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: just walk into the store and you like, pick up

1228
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: and leave secondary sex characteristics that you like, do and

1229
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: don't want, like an exchange.

1230
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 2: I wish you think about that all the time.

1231
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, God hope eventually do this podcast so long

1232
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: and someone does figure out the dick and Titty Store

1233
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: and like, you know, and we're going to be sponsored

1234
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: by the Dick and Titty Store. Oh, I love it

1235
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: as the most I'm talking about dick and Titties on

1236
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: the show.

1237
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 2: Basically, ever, I did it, guess I did it. Thank

1238
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 2: you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm on the reddits,

1239
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: as I said, so, please everyone be nice to me.

1240
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: I do not look at the reddits for cool Zone Media.

1241
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: It's bad. I mean no, it's bad of me to do.

1242
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: It's not that the things there are bad. Everyone there

1243
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 2: is very respectful.

1244
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Every now and then when people say positive things,

1245
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: someone show it to me and I'm like, that's great.

1246
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: And other than that, I'm like, you know, it can

1247
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: be discussion that people have without me. That's fine. People

1248
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: are gonna have their own opinion about what I'm doing.

1249
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: It works for me, yeah anyway. But if people want

1250
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: to have an opinion about stuff you do, where can

1251
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: they reach your words and hear your voice.

1252
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 2: You can follow me on substack one thousand natural Shocks.

1253
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:49,439
Speaker 2: That's substack dot com. I'm on Instagram at Gabe s Done.

1254
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 2: I used to post fun party Boy, Gabe, we Hooe,

1255
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: pomp spring stuff and now it's exclusively anger at the government.

1256
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: The times we live in.

1257
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 2: I said that I slid into a DM of a

1258
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 2: guy and I was like, you should look at your

1259
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: profile and see what you come across just before you

1260
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 2: do that. And then I was like, hey, I promise

1261
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: I have hobbies and interests that aren't anger at the government.

1262
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm working at a book right now where a character

1263
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: is making fun of another character and they're like, I

1264
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: looked up your field profile and it literally just says Antifa. Yes, yes,

1265
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: that's a little spoiler for a book I'm working on.

1266
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: And that's my humor entirely. So the podcast is a

1267
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 2: thousand natural shocks Bad with Money podcast. It's an extension

1268
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 2: of Bad with Money due to my changing radicalism. And

1269
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: do a show called Just between Us with my friend.

1270
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,959
Speaker 2: It probably will be done, but you can go listen

1271
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 2: to back episodes of that if you'd like.

1272
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 1: Fuck yam and.

1273
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: I think that's everything. I don't know. Everything's on Instagram now,

1274
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: slash substack.

1275
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: And you can follow me on the Internet. I'm Margaret Kilchroy.

1276
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: I'm on the Internet. I wish I wasn't, but you know,

1277
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: I also like feeling like I interact with the world,

1278
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: and I like eating on a regular basis, So say

1279
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: on that.

1280
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: Cool People who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1281
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1282
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 2: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1283
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: on the I Heard

1284
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.