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Speaker 1: Fall schworm Jagger. That was a German named for paratrooper.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I started the episode saying, Tom,

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Speaker 1: how are you? How are you doing? Do you know

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Speaker 1: that the German word for paratrooper is falseh room jagger?

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Speaker 1: I did not know that. Well, now you do, thank you.

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Speaker 1: They had, you know, the Nazis had an aquatic little

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Speaker 1: jeep that could go on the water. They called a

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Speaker 1: schwimmin wagin. That's sweet, that's kind of funny. What do

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Speaker 1: we call it? That's our swimming wagon? Head is ye vehicle?

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Speaker 1: It does the old Tom? Yeah, how are you feeling?

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Speaker 1: Two pieces of ship into this? I'm vibing on some

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Speaker 1: clown shoes right now. You are vibing on some clown shoes. Well,

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Speaker 1: right now, Tom, this exact moment, the second in time

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Speaker 1: that we both inhabit, which may be eternal if if

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Speaker 1: certain philosophers are right, this very moment could go on forever,

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Speaker 1: both forwards and backwards in time, be completely encompassing, as

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Speaker 1: all moments are. This moment we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: a guy you have heard of. Mr Morton Downey dances

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Speaker 1: all the way down just just my ears. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a name. That's a name. Yeah, Tom, what do you

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Speaker 1: know about Morton Danny Jr. J As we call him.

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Speaker 1: He's like a pinky ring that fell into a puddle

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Speaker 1: of toxic waste to became a man. He's he's played.

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Speaker 1: He plays the slick, he plays the slimy journalist that

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Speaker 1: Danny Glover punches in the face and Predator to And

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Speaker 1: he sure isn't Predator to you, God damn right playing himself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's absolutely playing himself in Predator to, which is incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: easily the second best Predator movie. It's it's easily the

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Speaker 1: second Predator film. Yeah, definitely, you can't take that away

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Speaker 1: from it. It is the second one of the Insure

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Speaker 1: dobly the second Predator film. Yeah, I know, he's like,

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Speaker 1: he's he's uh. He was sort of like um the

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Speaker 1: uh the yeng to Phil Donna Hughes Yang at the time,

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Speaker 1: where Phil Donna Hue was like kind of nice and

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Speaker 1: personable and Morton Downey was a real son of a

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Speaker 1: bitch when he was a real piece of shit. And

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Speaker 1: the fun thing about Morton Downey Junior, Tom Uh is

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Speaker 1: that if you start researching Morton Downey Jr. The first

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Speaker 1: like Google result that tries to auto fill when you

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Speaker 1: start typing his name in is is Morton Downey Junior

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Speaker 1: related to Robert Downey Jr. And my answer to that

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Speaker 1: is it does not appear to be, so just just

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Speaker 1: just a fun coincidence, which is weird because he does

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Speaker 1: have a famous dad like Robert Downey Jr. Um, but

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Speaker 1: just a completely different one. I just that's that's very funny. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: so uh, let's let's let's let's talk about m d j. So.

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Speaker 1: Morton Downey Jr. Was born on December nine, nineteen thirty two,

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, California. His father was obviously a guy

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Speaker 1: named Morton Downey. Two thirds of these guys are Californians.

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Speaker 1: Well that in the thirties, I'm like, funk, he's old, ancient, dusty,

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Speaker 1: old racist mummies. That's because they were established by the

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Speaker 1: time the eighties got going and they could really start

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Speaker 1: fucking some ship up for everybody. That's true. I keep

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Speaker 1: saying at the eighties was four decades ago. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: been a long time since the eighties, thank god. So. Um.

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Speaker 1: His father was obviously Morton Downey, which probably means nothing

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Speaker 1: to everyone listening, but it meant an awful lot to people.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen twenties and early thirties. Morton Downey's nickname

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Speaker 1: was the Irish Nightingale, and he was one of the

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Speaker 1: most popular singers of his day. He had Morton Downey Jr.

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Speaker 1: Whose first name was Sean, with his first wife, Barbara Bennett,

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Speaker 1: and Barbara was famous because she was the sister of

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Speaker 1: two women who were famous actresses. Morton Downey Senior would

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Speaker 1: ultimately have five children, four sons and a daughter. He

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Speaker 1: was not a nice man, or at least people who

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Speaker 1: knew Morton Downey Jr. Say he did not think well

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Speaker 1: of his father. There is, in fact, significant evidence that

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Speaker 1: he despised the man. He desperately wanted to succeed as

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Speaker 1: a singer, and he tried repeatedly as a young man

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Speaker 1: to follow in his father's footsteps, appearing on early game shows,

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Speaker 1: where his performance was reviewed positively by guys like Dean Martin.

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Speaker 1: I thought he had an alright voice, but most experts

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Speaker 1: agree he just didn't have what his father had. There

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Speaker 1: was something lacking in his voice that like he was

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Speaker 1: just never going to have the kind of career his

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Speaker 1: dad had. The Downey family were well to do he

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Speaker 1: grew up, you know rich Ish. Um they lived in

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to know how well to

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Speaker 1: do they were, they lived in Hyannas Sport in Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: And their next door neighbors worth the Kennedy's. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's like that's how that's how much money they got.

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Speaker 1: His kids which ish Yeah, Yeah, they're hanging there, hanging

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Speaker 1: with the Kennedy's. Morton Downey Jr. Was good friends with

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Speaker 1: Joe Kennedy. Well, Morton or Morton Downey Senior was good

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Speaker 1: friends with Joe Kennedy one and um as When Morton

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Speaker 1: Downy Jr. Was a child, he would hang out regularly

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Speaker 1: with the Kennedy boys, you know, like he knew Robert

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Speaker 1: and JFK when they were younger. Um, like they were

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Speaker 1: all buds together. I guess down Emmy's a bit younger.

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Speaker 1: But Downey attended New York University, and like the others

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Speaker 1: and like our other subjects, seems to have immediately known

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Speaker 1: he wanted a career in radio. He got a job

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Speaker 1: as the program director and announcer for a radio station

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Speaker 1: in Hartford, Connecticut, in the early nineteen fifties. Over the

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Speaker 1: next decade, and change. He was hired primarily as a DJ,

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Speaker 1: although he also sang for several pop and country records

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Speaker 1: and wrote a handful of songs that saw modest success.

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Speaker 1: Like Wally, George Morton Downey Jr. Bounced around various markets Phoenix, Miami,

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, San Diego, and Seattle. Also, like Wally, he

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Speaker 1: was a huge asshole and had trouble working with people.

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Speaker 1: He was forced to resign from a Miami network when

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Speaker 1: he gave the home phone number for a competing DJ

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Speaker 1: out on the air and insulted the man's wife, like

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Speaker 1: doc's the guy on live on the air. I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to hear I hear him croon. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea that was his background. Oh, I mean

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Speaker 1: we can he cut an album? Tom? You know what, Tom,

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Speaker 1: We'll play this right now, see it? Yeah, let's let's

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Speaker 1: do this now. I need you to hear his song

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Speaker 1: about the war on drugs? What's it called? Hey there,

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Speaker 1: Mr dealer man? Mr dealer pushes. So that's the kids

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Speaker 1: of America. Just make that Dyn sleeves bag country comb

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Speaker 1: a la. He's like attacking the microphone. Yeah, feel welcome

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Speaker 1: to his eternal laugh. He looks like a skeleton at

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Speaker 1: a costume contest, dressed his team. All right, that's probably

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Speaker 1: enough of Hey there, Mr dealer, So this will mean

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Speaker 1: more when you've had Dean Martin was too kind to him.

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Speaker 1: He was better when he was younger too, his earlier

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Speaker 1: his earlier ship is I think because he's he's he

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Speaker 1: was famous when he recorded, so he was like doing yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he's still like yeah, it's yeah, yeah. I don't

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Speaker 1: think he had a bad voice and the stuff you

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Speaker 1: can hear from younger. There's a good documentary about but

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Speaker 1: yeah he has he has going real agro there um.

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Speaker 1: And it's because you know, he was already a name

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Speaker 1: at that point and he was he was doing a

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Speaker 1: bit or maybe he just like was out of his mind,

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Speaker 1: because that's what being famous does to you after a while.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You can see the cocaine just like

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Speaker 1: in an aura. Yeah, yeah, it followed him around. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Morton took a break from his work,

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Speaker 1: his career, which was again he was kind of a

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Speaker 1: mix of a DJ and and a kind of a

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Speaker 1: pinch hitter in the music industry, coming in to do

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Speaker 1: background vocals and stuff to work on that campaign for

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Speaker 1: his good childhood friend Bobby Kennedy. When Kennedy was assassinated,

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Speaker 1: Morton wrote a book of poetry with the title Quiet

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Speaker 1: Thoughts Make the Loudest Noise. The book was a way

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Speaker 1: of processing grief. And you can still find a handful

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Speaker 1: of hardcover copies on Amazon for like a hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty eight dollars. I am not buying one of them,

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Speaker 1: but I did transcribe one of the poems he wrote

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Speaker 1: specifically about Robert Kennedy's death. Um from the documentary A

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Speaker 1: Bocketur and I'm gonna read that to you now, row

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Speaker 1: upon row of grief racked followers, sunken cheeks replacing their

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Speaker 1: years ago happy faces, saying proudly for their departed friend,

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Speaker 1: their final hope, and wondered why a man must die

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Speaker 1: to be a hero, and whether we honor only those

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Speaker 1: our own selfish hearts destroy. Yeah. I don't think sunken

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Speaker 1: cheeks is what he meant to say, but um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of you know, it's kind of profound, right, Al.

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Speaker 1: He's certainly like a man who's thinking about like the

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Speaker 1: nature of Yeah, that was it was thoughtful. You wouldn't

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Speaker 1: call him a shallow man based on that, Um, he's

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Speaker 1: a man who's trying to process complicated, in sorrowful emotions

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Speaker 1: in a in an artistic way. Clearly a person capable

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Speaker 1: of not just feeling grief, but of expressing it artistically. Um.

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Speaker 1: He continued to sing occasionally, and he made his living

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Speaker 1: as yet another disc jockey until in nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 1: the same year that the Wally George TV Show starts,

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Speaker 1: a year before Rush Limbaugh gots on talk radio, he

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Speaker 1: gets a job as a talk radio host on w

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Speaker 1: d b O in Orlando, Florida. So yeah, and again

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Speaker 1: they're both kind of writing this wave of right wing

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Speaker 1: populism and the rise of the religious right and Ronald

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Speaker 1: Reagan like they're part of a thing. They're not starting it,

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Speaker 1: but they are also influencing the way this thing grows.

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Speaker 1: So Wally George and Morton Danny Jr. Both rode that

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Speaker 1: right wing wave and helped to shape it. Morton Danny Jr.

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Speaker 1: Was even more incendiary and control uncontrolled than Wally. He

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Speaker 1: lost his first talk show gig after he punched a guest,

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Speaker 1: an abortion rights activist named Bill Baird, who he then

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Speaker 1: called a son of a bitch, so how many episodes

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Speaker 1: in that? So yeah, Wally George screams at people and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Uh and I think shoved some folks a few times.

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Speaker 1: Or Nanny Jr. Just called Cox some motherfucker like months

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Speaker 1: into his first talk show and again a radio talk show.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you can hear like the meat sound

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Speaker 1: on the on the microphone. I haven't found this audio,

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Speaker 1: but I bet it's great. Next. According to the New

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Speaker 1: York Times quote, Mr Downey was soon hired by kf

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Speaker 1: b K a M radio, a news talk station in Sacramento, California.

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Speaker 1: There he told a joke in which he used the

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Speaker 1: word Chinaman several times, angering Tom Yeah. Not that surprising,

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Speaker 1: is it, um um? So yeah, he tells a joke

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Speaker 1: in which he uses the word chinaman several times, which

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Speaker 1: pisces off Tom Chin, a Chinese American member of Sacramento

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Speaker 1: City Council who was listening in his car. And why

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Speaker 1: I wonder why that bothered him? Wonder why he get

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Speaker 1: angry at that? Mr Chin called the station. According to

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Speaker 1: the councilman and to Paul our errand then the station's

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Speaker 1: program director. Mr Chin was put through to Mr Downey,

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Speaker 1: who let loose a verbal tirade against him. Mr Downey

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Speaker 1: was discharged the next day. So he tells a racist

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Speaker 1: joke on air. It offends the member of the city

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Speaker 1: council who calls, and then he proceeds to be racist

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Speaker 1: to that guy laugh on the air and loses his job. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's usually probably should be what happens. Yeah. Yeah, Now

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Speaker 1: the station had to obviously had to shoot can Morton.

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Speaker 1: Danny june I liked that. He was like, Oh, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'll just be racist to you directly then, Yeah, do

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Speaker 1: you do what would you like me to just be

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Speaker 1: a piece of ship to your face? I did not

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Speaker 1: mean to do it to your back on the air,

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Speaker 1: absolutely not. Forgive me. Let me be an asshole directly

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Speaker 1: to me, to be an asshole directly to you, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean to be rude. Um. So they had to

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Speaker 1: fire him. But he was also and you'll you'll hear

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Speaker 1: different things about how popular he was. By some accounts

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Speaker 1: he was he was very successful. By some accounts just

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Speaker 1: modestly successful. I I can't tell you which. Um, but

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Speaker 1: he did well enough that the station was like, well,

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Speaker 1: this guy's built an audience. They're very dedicated and so

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Speaker 1: when he leaves, they decide they need to replace him

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Speaker 1: with another right wing firebrand, someone who can still stir

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Speaker 1: up the same kind of populist rage, but also isn't

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Speaker 1: quite as race sist. You know, they picked Tom. I

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Speaker 1: don't wanna know who followed him into the job. You

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Speaker 1: might have heard of this guy, little fella. He might

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Speaker 1: know his name, Rush Limbaugh. Oh yeah, that's how Rush

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Speaker 1: gets his first big political gig. It was Morton Downey

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Speaker 1: being too racist on the air. It was too racist,

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Speaker 1: and so Rush Limbaugh came in and said, I can

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Speaker 1: be slightly less racist than that. I can for a while,

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Speaker 1: for a little while. Eventually I'll be much more racist

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Speaker 1: than that. I could be slightly less racist. Two people's faces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah again for a while, for a for a while.

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Speaker 1: I love like, man, that was too racist. Let's get

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Speaker 1: Rush in here. Let's get you get that Rush Limbach

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Speaker 1: hit in here. Tone things down somewhat. Tom, Where do

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Speaker 1: you go when you've just gotten fired from your right

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Speaker 1: wing radio job for being too much of a racist

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Speaker 1: television No? I mean, but what city do you go to?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Cleveland? Cleveland? Yeah, you get you get

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Speaker 1: your ass on down to Cleveland. Hey, our rivers are

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Speaker 1: very rarely on fire, um, unlike Cleveland. So he gets

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Speaker 1: hired by W E. R. E a M. To improve

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Speaker 1: the poor ratings of its talk show department. He was

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Speaker 1: forced out there when he again hurld racial slurs at

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Speaker 1: an elected leader. This one of you municipal court judge?

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Speaker 1: Who seeing this coming? Who could have guessed? Wally George,

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Speaker 1: the man who punched an abortion rights activist and lost

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Speaker 1: his first radio show, lost his second for screaming racial

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Speaker 1: slurs at a city councilor would lose his third show

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Speaker 1: for screaming racial slurs at a municipal court Judgeops among us,

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Speaker 1: who among us has not on a bad day hurld

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Speaker 1: racial slurs at a circuit court judge? Or where was

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Speaker 1: those of us who have not gone to jail have

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Speaker 1: done that? Um? So while his former employer wrestled with

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit as a result of this, Morton Downey Jr.

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Speaker 1: Moved to Chicago to do it all over again. And

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Speaker 1: so during both of the state Yeah the strategy Chicago Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Chicago forgives all sense. During his first two dalliances with

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Speaker 1: talk radio, Morton Downey Jr. Had a regular segment on

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Speaker 1: his shows called the Executive Intelligence Report, which is him

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Speaker 1: reading from a magazine published by Lyndon LaRouche. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to do a whole episode on Lyndon LaRouche at

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Speaker 1: some point, um, but for now you'll have to be

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Speaker 1: satisfied with this quick description of Lyndon courtesy of a

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Speaker 1: New York Times obituary. And again this is the source

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Speaker 1: of of Morton Downey Junior's Executive Intelligence Report quote. Lyndon Larus,

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Speaker 1: the quixotic, apocalyptic leader of a cult like political organization

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Speaker 1: who ran for president eight times once more a prison cell,

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Speaker 1: died on Tuesday. He was nineties six. Defining what yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, that's a motherfucking sentence as an entire sentence,

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Speaker 1: Defining what Mr Laruche stood for or was no easy task.

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Speaker 1: He began his political career on the far left and

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Speaker 1: ended it on the far right. He said he admired

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Abraham Lincoln, and Ronald Reagan and

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Speaker 1: loathed Hitler the composure Richard Wagner and other anti Semites,

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Speaker 1: though he himself made anti Semitic statements, and boy did

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Speaker 1: he a lot of them. He was a fascist Tom

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Speaker 1: he was a fascist political cult leader, was like, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what the funk he believed. He believed in

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Speaker 1: Lyndon Laruge having a bunch of like he had a

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Speaker 1: bunch of followers who basically it was a cult, like

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Speaker 1: they lived for this man, and they would go out

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Speaker 1: and proselytize on the street. They would hand out papers

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Speaker 1: at college campuses. Laruche argued that environmentalists were trying to

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Speaker 1: wipe out the human race, which is a claim that

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones now parents. He believed Clean Queen Elizabeth was

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Speaker 1: trying to murder him personally. He argued that Jews had

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Speaker 1: founded the KKK, and he described Indigenous Americans as lower beasts.

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Speaker 1: So this is the source of Morton Downey Jr's intel

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Speaker 1: of finding a couple of consistent threads in his belief

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Speaker 1: structure that perhaps his obituary could have latched onto he

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Speaker 1: may and I think they may have gotten into that later.

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Speaker 1: That was like the first two paragraphs. I just read

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Speaker 1: that obituary and was like, my god, that is a sentence. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that first sentence almost knocked me out of my chair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what a fucking life. The president eight times once from prison,

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Speaker 1: but it was a tax thing. I think, um again,

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Speaker 1: we'll do I'll have to read into him and we'll

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Speaker 1: do a whole episode on Lyndon Laruche. He's quite a character.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the head of Morton Downey Jr's Intel program. Now,

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Speaker 1: the fact that Morton Downy Junior platform this guy is

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Speaker 1: very fucked up, and it's arguably more fucked up because

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Speaker 1: Morton Downey Jr. Did not really like him. As he

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Speaker 1: told The New York Times, I decided I was going

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Speaker 1: to be as friendly towards these people and get as

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Speaker 1: much information out of them as I could, because someday

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Speaker 1: I would expose them. Now that's bullshit. It's true that

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Speaker 1: he did eventually get Lyndon Laruche on his TV show

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Speaker 1: and he tore him apart like it was a very

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Speaker 1: aggressive interview with Lyndon, but he also continued to spread

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Speaker 1: Larusha's newsletter and other publications after that point, calling the

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Speaker 1: fascist cult leaders intelligence information quote the second or third

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Speaker 1: best in the world based on what Morton Downey Jr.

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Speaker 1: Morton Downey Junior doesn't know. Ninth build cast member of

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Speaker 1: Predator to yeah, mother, I mean he did make the

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Speaker 1: top ten. Look look in fairness, that's more than either

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Speaker 1: of us have ever done in terms of predators. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not out here saying this is the second or

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Speaker 1: third most reputable intelligence with mort in the world. No,

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Speaker 1: you're not. No, based on your your experience, which is

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Speaker 1: you and I both did get to look at the

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Speaker 1: predator costume. Yes, O wait, No I didn't. Well you

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Speaker 1: weren't there. That wasn't to but I saw the video.

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Speaker 1: It was radem just knowing that I was that close

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Speaker 1: to something that had touched Morton Downey Jr. Was It

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Speaker 1: was just powerful, Tom, really powerful. You know what else

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Speaker 1: has touched Morton Downey Jr. In a secual These products

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Speaker 1: and services Probably they fucked him. They fucked him. Products

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Speaker 1: and services have been inserted into Morton Downey Jr. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: That is again the only promise we make about our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: So if he seems fine with us, so I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to continue. That's an ad that's an AD throw.

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Speaker 1: That's an AD throw. Baby. Oh we're back. So by

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Speaker 1: nine seven, Rush Limbaugh Show had exploded in popularity. Wally

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Speaker 1: George was the talk of Orange County. This is kind

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Speaker 1: of the height of the Wally George Show too, and

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Speaker 1: despite Morton's mixed success on radio a station in New

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Speaker 1: York slash New Jersey. I guess it covered both decided

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Speaker 1: let's give this guy a TV show. And I think

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Speaker 1: they're looking at Wally George over in OC. They're seeing

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Speaker 1: Rush Limbabo in the radio and they're like, this guy

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Speaker 1: could be a could be a hit on TV. And

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Speaker 1: in fairness, they're not wrong. He was. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: filmed in c Caucus. The Morton Downey Junior Show was

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Speaker 1: cut very much in the shape of Wally George his

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Speaker 1: hot seat. In fact, while he even had Morton on

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Speaker 1: his show in the late nineteen eighties and it was

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Speaker 1: immediately hostile. And I'm first going to play this clip

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Speaker 1: more than Daddy Jr. On the It's really a Freddie

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Speaker 1: versus Jason moment, say, two rats fighting over a dead cato.

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Speaker 1: And I have to say before if you're wondering what

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Speaker 1: Morton Downey Jr. Looks like, well, so if he gets

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Speaker 1: this clip together, remember Iron Giant, Remember the bad guy

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Speaker 1: from Iron Giant. He looks like Christopher's sleazy fed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he looks like he looks like Shooter McGavin. He looks

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Speaker 1: he does who was the same. I was blew me

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Speaker 1: away to learn that Shooter McGavin and the fed from

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Speaker 1: uh the Iron Giant are the same guy. Incredible thing

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Speaker 1: it he looks like he looks like Shooter McGavin with

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Speaker 1: novelty teeth, Shooter McGavin. If Shooter McGavin did like birthday

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Speaker 1: parties for children here it is. You're you're coming up

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Speaker 1: with the usual simplistic answers. Wally that conservatives who don't

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Speaker 1: know what the hell they're talking about. I've got an

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Speaker 1: audience out here. You've got an audience of monkeys out here.

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Speaker 1: We'll do everything that you tell them to do. He's

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I'm warning the next time you don't warn me.

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Speaker 1: Punk God, Wally George looks incredible a man. It looks

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Speaker 1: like the entertainment director and a cruise ship, like a

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Speaker 1: bad cruise ship. The cops have come on now and

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Speaker 1: they're pulling Morton Downey Jr. Off the show and tackling

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Speaker 1: he gets tackled by here, total Roger Stone vibes from

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Speaker 1: that guy. Was like yeah, And obviously all of that

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Speaker 1: was set up ahead of time. The plan was always

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Speaker 1: I suspect from Morton Downey Junior to get tackled by

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Speaker 1: share stepput Saw on the seat of Wally George's hot seat.

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Speaker 1: It seems so extreme and he's already so famous at

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Speaker 1: that point that they wouldn't Yeah, they would not dare

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Speaker 1: do that to him and listen to stage. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean while yeah, yeah, it's it's very funny. Um and

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Speaker 1: and honestly, I can't tell you it may not have

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Speaker 1: been pre planned as much as both men just naturally

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Speaker 1: new going in. This is how this is going to end.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm Morton Downy Jr. And the Wally George Show.

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Speaker 1: Of course I'm going to get tackled off stage during

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Speaker 1: like a nearly physical fight between the two of us.

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Speaker 1: This is just how this has to happen. I am

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Speaker 1: naturally enough of a right wing ship head firebrand that

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Speaker 1: that's just in my blood. The thing that the moment

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Speaker 1: we were on a camera together, this was what had

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Speaker 1: to happen. Right, whoever wins, we lose. Yeah. The real

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Speaker 1: Freddy Jason situation they stuck out to me was when

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Speaker 1: there's a scene, were not a scene. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: this like it's a movie because it's so stage. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of the cliff where Wally George stands

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Speaker 1: up after uh, Morton Downey says, don't don't warn me.

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Speaker 1: He stands up like he's going to fight. But he

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Speaker 1: he says, he buttons his coat. He buttons his fucking coat.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing you do when you know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be on camera. Do you do the opposite when you

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Speaker 1: know you're about to start throwing hands as you want

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Speaker 1: to unbutton that coat? So it's like you want to

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Speaker 1: but you might even want to take that if you're

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Speaker 1: really gonna throw hands, you take that shirt off and

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Speaker 1: you folded on the table. What you say, All right,

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Speaker 1: here's how things are gonna go, you know. So the

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00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: fact that he stood up and buttoned his jacket, it's like, yeah, yeah,

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00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: you know you're not gonna course of course, yeah that

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Speaker 1: it would have been very fun, but I don't think

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00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: either of well, actually, no, Morton Downy Jr. Definitely threw

405
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Speaker 1: a punch. He punched that guy who came on his

406
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Speaker 1: radio cheft to every you know, all the all the

407
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Speaker 1: what a terrible piece of shitty is and all the

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Speaker 1: funny things we're gonna do to to make fun of him.

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Speaker 1: On this episode, Morton Downey doesn't look like he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been in a fight. No, No, Morton Downy Jr. Morton

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Speaker 1: Downey Jr. Wouldn't have survived to this age if he

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Speaker 1: hadn't learned a couple of things about fighting, because that's

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Speaker 1: a man who piss his people off. Yeah, Wally George

414
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: is a man who was very careful to never piss

415
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Speaker 1: anyone off until he felt like he wouldn't get the

416
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Speaker 1: ship beating out of him, like he was an adult

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Speaker 1: and polite society. That was a kid who hide bully

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Speaker 1: into giving you an extra ride on the teacups at

419
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: the carnival like now moren Downy Jr. Was different from

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Speaker 1: Wally George and in fact, well he started off as

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00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: way more out of control. Again he got fired from

422
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: his first job for assaulting a guest. Um. He toned

423
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: it down for his actual TV show, Um, not much,

424
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: but in a in an intelligent way. He was actually

425
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, he was kind of a

426
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: mix between Wally George and and Joe pine Um because

427
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: like Wally George, he would be like a lunatic a

428
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: bunch of the time and like very loud, getting too

429
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: fights on stage and whatnot. A showman, but like Joe Pine,

430
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: he could actually sit down and have conversations with people,

431
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: even once he disagreed with about just screaming at them,

432
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: and there were actual debates on his show. Um So

433
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: he was not the same as Wally, and I think

434
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: that's why he was. He made more of an impact

435
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: because Wally George was never anything but just like pure

436
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: id And there was a little bit of of thinking

437
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: on the Morton Downey Junior show. Not I'm not saying

438
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: that to praise it, just to like characterized what he

439
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: was doing. It was a bit different than Wally George.

440
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: He opened his first episode with the words certain things

441
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: really burn my buns, and that more or less summed

442
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: up the focus. Morton was irritated by a lot of

443
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: things feminism, environmentalism, social justice, and he wanted to make

444
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: his audience angry too. Like Wally, he was happy to

445
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: platform people with differing beliefs so long as they would

446
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: get into arguments with him. That made good television. His

447
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: show was an immediate success, and it's wide audience meant

448
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: that some of his guests became stars in their own right.

449
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: One of his early interviews was a little known congressman

450
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: you might have heard of tom named Ron Paul. Now

451
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: Morton Downey Jr. Not a friendly introduction of Ron Paul.

452
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: Here he brings the congressman up on stage by saying,

453
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: we're going to talk to a man who could be

454
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: snorting cocaine in the Oval office. Because again, Ron Paul,

455
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: the thing that like, one of the things that made

456
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: him prominent early on is he's for the decriminalization or

457
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: legalization of all drugs. And Morton Downey Jr. Is, as

458
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: a Republican in this period of time, an arch drug warrior. Um.

459
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: So here's here's Ron Paul on the Morton Downey Junior Show.

460
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: You believe that the government should stay out of our

461
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: personal business altogether? What happens that's good, guys, but also

462
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: happens to be my personal business if I want to

463
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: kill my four year old kid. Right, No, no, no, no,

464
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait, you're giving you're giving libertarian a

465
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: distorted explanation, sir, Your people gave it to yourselves and

466
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: your platfor no. Let me explain that the answer is

467
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: that we are a lot of do what we want.

468
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: We even permit people smoke, siretutes happen that happens to

469
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: be the most deadly drug and not of states today.

470
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: Maybe we ought to abandoned. I wish you'd band it

471
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: right right now. You can buy it out on the street. Hey,

472
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: five dollars a pack. Do you see what a number one?

473
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: Ron Paul really comes across as a reasonable man in

474
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: that interfield? Yeah? Yeah, um, but you see that, you

475
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: see what I'm talking about. He's kind of a mix

476
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: of Wally George and Joe Pine because he's way more

477
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: aggressive and rude than Joe Pine. But he's also he's

478
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: not just shouting over him. Ron Paul gets he and

479
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: he'll he'll he'll quiet his audience down and whatnot. Like

480
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: he's he's he's he's found this middle level between the

481
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: two men. Um, that's certainly not like I mean, he's

482
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: a bully, he's a dick, but he's not what Wally

483
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: George was. It's not quite that same level of like

484
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: it's not as much of a lynch mob the audience.

485
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: Um yeah, still a lot of audience participation, but yeah,

486
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: less violently fascist, yeah, but still the bad faith arguments

487
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: still of course, in the same way that Joe Pine

488
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: was bad faith by you know, they all have this

489
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: in common. They all have this in common, and I

490
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: just think it's interesting how Morton. I think it's very

491
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: consciously mixing Joe Pine with Wally George in order to

492
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of like Wally went way too far. Joe Pine

493
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: is not far enough for today's TV. Nobody would listen

494
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: to Joe Pine today. He's too calm, you know, he's

495
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: he's like he wants to maintain he wants the same

496
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: kind of controversy and and intense emotions of of Wally George,

497
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: but he wants to main same firm control of the show. Yeah, yeah,

498
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly That's exactly it, um. And this

499
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: is probably why his show. And also you know the

500
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: fact that when he has people on embally disagrees with,

501
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: he does allow them more of a chance to make

502
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: their point. Ron Paul gets to say a lot in

503
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: this interview, and this is I don't want to say

504
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: this is like the reason he became prominent, but this

505
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: is a decent part of it. This is a significant

506
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: reason for his like why he started to become well known,

507
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: and it's in part because he does get he looks

508
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: good up there. He makes a lot of sense and

509
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people like listening to Ron

510
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: Paul on the Morton Danny Junior Show, would be like, well,

511
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: this is actually a reasonable man um. I suspect, especially

512
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: considering the kind of like angry young men who would

513
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: watch the Morton Danny Junior Show. I'm sure a lot

514
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: of them got into Ron Paul watching this um in

515
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: a way that like with Wally George, that I'm sure

516
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: never happened because he never let people say that much.

517
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: UM and yeah. I mean it's hard to watch the

518
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: Ron Paul interview and dislike the man um where Joe

519
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: Pine was always chivalrous to his female guests, though even

520
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: though he agreed with Morton, felt no need to hold

521
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: his punches. At one point he had on a vegan,

522
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: which is again that was like the first thing we

523
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: saw Joe Pine doing is like talking to a vegan

524
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: so we can make fun of him. Um, which is

525
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: a big, a long reoccurring thing in like right wing politics.

526
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, she made the point this vegan that

527
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: that that Morton's talking to you made the point that

528
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: vegan diets were healthier, to which Wally responded, I eat

529
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: raw hamburger, I eat raw fish. I smoked four packs

530
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: of cigarettes a day. I have about four drinks a day.

531
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: I'm fifty five years old, and I look as good

532
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: as you do, which is gonna be funny later, although

533
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: you do have to be fair like he looks a

534
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: lot younger than Joe Pine does. When Joe Pine was

535
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: like forty, Joe Pine looked like a pyramid, like a

536
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: pyramid made man. He says he's smoking four packs of

537
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: cigarettes a day. Joe Pine is smoking four packs of

538
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: cigarettes an hour, like he sees here. So one of

539
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: his most popular sparring partners was feminist lawyer Gloria Allred,

540
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: who again gained a lot of her popularity because of

541
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: the Morton Downey Junior Show. This is a big vector

542
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who are who are still

543
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: prominent today. Again not the only reason, but like, this

544
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: is a big show, this is a significant cultural moment,

545
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: and she has a big role in it. She's a

546
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: regular guest um and she and Downey would like spar

547
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: a lot constantly. You might have expected her to hate him,

548
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: like given her politics and his politics. They certainly fought

549
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: like Hey and is on the air. But as the

550
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: documentary of Vocatur makes clear, the two got along. This

551
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: was a game and they were both happy to play

552
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: it in order to make themselves famous. And I'm gonna

553
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: have Sophie play this club. This is from the documentary

554
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: of Vocatur, which I really do recommend. Anyone who had

555
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: breasts was a feminist, saying almost no feminist who have

556
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: ever burned a brass So let me get that straight.

557
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: Whoever had anything that they needed to wear a bra for?

558
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: Between us, there was a certain amount of sexual attention,

559
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: likewise on your jockstrap, but in how does she know

560
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: she has a tape measure on her tongue? Like Jesus,

561
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah right, that's just that's just gross all around. I

562
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: feel like I need a shower. But also you you

563
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: see the difference again when Wally Wally George never had

564
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 1: it like it wasn't yelling at people, he was like

565
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: friendly with, Like clearly he wanted that with some of them,

566
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: Like he was willing to like talk with Blaze and

567
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: be like, hey, we could have a good thing going.

568
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: He was able to find people who were media trained,

569
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 1: who were talented in their own right, who could go

570
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: on and have show arguments with him to keep the

571
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: crowd braying. But there was nothing. He didn't. He didn't again,

572
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: he didn't believe in ship. But while Wally George like couldn't.

573
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: I guess I don't think Wally, when Morton Jenny Jr.

574
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: Was willing to do was have someone get in hits

575
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: on him verbally, like he wanted that kind of sparring,

576
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, because that's good TV. I think Wally George

577
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: was just too brittle a man to accept that. Yeah, Yeah,

578
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: Morton Enny, I don't I think never would have taken

579
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: anything really personally because he's a showman and he gets

580
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: that like, well, I'm Evan Gloria On Like, neither of

581
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: us believe in anything. We just are using this as

582
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: a vehicle for our own personal fame and we can say,

583
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: like have whatever fights we want to have. And yeah,

584
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: they would have made a good couple because they're both

585
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: the same person more or less. Ye. So, eight months

586
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: into its run, the Morton Downey Junior Show was a

587
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: wildfire hit. The New York Times sent in a reporter

588
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: to watch the show as it was taped, and his

589
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: recollection does a good job of setting up the mood.

590
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: Quote Sean Morton Downey Jr. Shawn to his friends more

591
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: mort to the adoring t shirted fans crowding the New

592
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: Jersey Television studio audience, smoked in paste and spewed venom.

593
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: You're not licking the beauties of the boots of the bureaucracy.

594
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: That doesn't give a damn about the American people, he commanded.

595
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 1: Bureaucratic bitch, he shouted. As the congregation and unruly, as

596
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: unruly as any Splatter film crowd at the nearby Lows

597
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: Metal Plaza eight jumped up and loudly voiced its approval. So, yeah,

598
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: that's the it's it's combatitive. But as you saw from

599
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: that glare alrd quote, they'll cheer it like somebody getting

600
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: in a hit on Morton too. There's it's not the

601
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: same Springer here. We're getting closer to Springer here. It's right,

602
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: it's more about the spectacle. They just want to see him,

603
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: They just want to see fla. Yeah. Mort was separated

604
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: from later imitators, people like Jerry Springer, and from people

605
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: like Wally George, who was a little earlier by his

606
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: willingness to physically confront his guests. He came very close

607
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: to getting into fights on several occasions, and his studio. Yeah,

608
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: his studio was the first in television to put the

609
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: audience through a metal detector. Oh man, And I'm sure

610
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: there was a mix of that's practical because he has

611
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: somebody might get fucking stabbed, but also that's like, that's

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: another thing we can brag about. This TV is so hot,

613
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: we gotta have a metal detector for the audience. That's

614
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: how intense this show is. Yeah, it's a it's a gimmick.

615
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: As with Wally George, his live audience particularly skewed towards

616
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: young and disaffected men, a lot of the same kind

617
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: of guys who would have been in the alt right

618
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: and would have been like edgy kids online today. The

619
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: documentary of Acatur includes interviews with some of these audience members,

620
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: including Joshua Rothman, who was now a history professor who

621
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: was part of Wally's regular audience when he was like

622
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: fucking like, it looks like he's like sixteen in this.

623
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a little older. But here's here's

624
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Joshua explaining the appeal of showing up to a taping

625
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: of more show. If you guys and that other gram

626
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: went over there, like you pads a kid, I shove.

627
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: It was also sort of perfect for seventeen year olds

628
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: because it had no nuance at all. Everything was black

629
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: or white, and seventeen year olds problem. Everything is either

630
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: totally one thing or totally the other. There is no middle.

631
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: We are we're number one. You know what I think.

632
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump should take his board game and

633
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: just go to hell. Yeah that's all that's what you got, man. Yeah,

634
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: it looked like he was going to say something colorful

635
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: sixteen years you know, so that that says a lot

636
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: of it right there. Um, both like we didn't have YouTube.

637
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: If you were a kid and you want to, like

638
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: you feel like you have something to say, you could

639
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: get on TV if as long as you're willing to

640
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 1: like shout something stupid, Morton Downey Junior will put your

641
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: ass on television as long as you're to get possibly

642
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: beaten up by him on the air. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah,

643
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: I know, I get I get it, I get it.

644
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: It's yeah, he's given them not only in uh, he's

645
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: giving them an outlet. Um. Yeah, and it seems like

646
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: they like we we're talking about with the crowd of

647
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: Wally's show. It's it's more that it's it's not necessarily

648
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: the political views. It's they're latching onto this sort of

649
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: maximum anger. Anything goes this kind of environment. It's this

650
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: space where they can let out like every seventeen year

651
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: old as angry as ship about a bunch of different things.

652
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: And you could get on Morton Downey Junior Show and

653
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: you could either express real anger with something or what's

654
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: probably more common, you could express the anger inside you

655
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: and just throw it at anything, like it doesn't matter.

656
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: He just wants you to be loud and yelling and

657
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: he'll be happy with you. And and there's no you

658
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: can be edgy. If you want to just say something

659
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: funked up on TV, he can. He'll let you do that.

660
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: It's like ship posting to like all of this like

661
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: four chance stuff. You can see those impulses. He's giving

662
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: people an outlet for them. Yeah, And they showed the

663
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: clip from their homemade video that they that they made

664
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: like a sketch that they did these kids, yeah, pretending

665
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: to be Morton Downey Jr. So it's clear that it's

666
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: it's his like bombastic, this character that he is that

667
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: they're latching onto, less than his views. It's more it's

668
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: just the way he speaks and the way he behaves

669
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: and the way he's sort of you know, it's like

670
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: when people would chant, when people would chant Jerry Jerry, Yeah, exactly,

671
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: people would get into fights. It's nothing to do with

672
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Springer himself. Yeah, and it's it's nothing to do these

673
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: kids don't care about I'm sure didn't. I mean, I'm

674
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: sure at the time they agreed with whatever political ship

675
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: he was saying, but didn't think. They're fucking seventeen year

676
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: olds like they were. Just they identified with the way

677
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: that he expressed emotion and the way that he let

678
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: them do it, and they're identified with an angry white

679
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: man being a hungry white man on television and being

680
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: colorful about it. Yeah. Um, Morton absolutely played the role

681
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: of a religious extremist. Again, I don't think he believed

682
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: in anything, certainly not God, but he knew that fights

683
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: over religion could make good television. And I'm gonna play

684
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: an exerpt here from an episode titled God Versus Atheism. Now,

685
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: we don't think to pray when they don't want to.

686
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 1: Any child is free to praying any time that he wants.

687
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: In the public schools today, we just say we're gonna

688
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: give you a minute to pray any time you want. No,

689
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: they the government doesn't tell children when to pray, what

690
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: to pray, how to pray, or even if they don't

691
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: like you and Madam God in the and made sure

692
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: we can't even say in the Bredge of Allegiance the

693
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: word God anymore in a public school because of you, guys. Yeah,

694
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: it's the same ship you see in nowadays. Stupid useless

695
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: argument we're still making. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Later on in

696
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: that same interview, Downey tells his atheist guest, this is

697
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: a nation of freedom. Are you a religion? Then you

698
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: have no fucking freedom, just like like nine year old

699
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: old arguments. You know, yeah, I don't even know what

700
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: the funk that's supposed to be. Um. Now. While the

701
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: Morton Danny Junior Show had lots of yelling and fighting,

702
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: some of its most sinister impacts came from the segments

703
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: that were calm, thoughtful debates. In my research, I came

704
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: across a roundtable discussion from night about black crime featuring

705
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: Reverend Al Sharpton, who is another person who really The

706
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: Morton Downy Junior Show massively increased his his platform, his profile,

707
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: like he owes a lot of his fame to the

708
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: Morton Danny Junior show. UM. It like it. It made

709
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: him and it helped make him into like a regular

710
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: fixture on tv UM. While the authority or while the

711
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: audience does hoot and holler some the discussion is very

712
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: civil and it's kind of chilling because one of Morton's

713
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: guests here goes on an extended tirade about black on

714
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: white crime statistics, which is like a major argument point

715
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: for fucking neo Nazis today. So here that is, in

716
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: the United States, more murders were committed by blacks twelve

717
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: percent of the population, then we're committed by white of

718
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: the population. These are the numbers right here, right out

719
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: of the Justice Department figures, and you can check them

720
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: later if anyone has any doubts on that. When you

721
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: check the murder figures in inter raciel crime, now inter

722
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: raciel means that you have a perpetrator of one race

723
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: and another race. Figures. Yeah, you find and I'll just

724
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: get to the conclusion of it. You find that the

725
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: black was more likely to murder of white than a

726
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: white was. That's enough of this. So obviously this guy's

727
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: statistics are very flawed, and one of Morton's other guests, Dr.

728
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: Gloria Toot does point this out pretty much immediately. We're

729
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: going to play that clip now too. Here's her like

730
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: slapping back on this. Number one, your credit is coloneous.

731
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: Crime is being reduced in America, not justid by blacks,

732
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: but by Americans in general. We have less crime in

733
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: N seven than we had ten years ago. Number two,

734
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: The Justice Department and state and local government officials in

735
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,959
Speaker 1: crime have admitted that the reporting statistics are an era

736
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: as it relates to the crime reported by minorities and

737
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: crimes reported about white Number three. Also, it has now

738
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: been acknowledged by those officials that in many instances the

739
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: white criminal is not is not convicted or even arrested,

740
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: whereas your minority is. Now, I could go on and

741
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: on and on, but the fact that he has given

742
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: are just not accurate. And we do ourselves at disservice

743
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: when we don't look at what the problem is. So obviously, Um,

744
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: that's a more productive debate than was ever had on

745
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: the Wally George Show. It seems more like the kind

746
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: of stuff you might have heard on Joe Pine. Um.

747
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: And in fairness, he is bringing on people to contradict

748
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: and argue with this guy talking about black on white crime.

749
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: So you could call this, on one level, a more

750
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: responsible and productive debate than a lot of what you

751
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: see on right wing TV today. But I can't help

752
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: but see in this echoes of the kind of fascist

753
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: platforming that would become much more common in later years

754
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: without the measured pushback that Morton Show at least gave it.

755
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: The specter of black on white crime and high crime

756
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: rates among black people are two of the most virulent

757
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: uh and productive talking points of the fascist right. I

758
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: could go on a rant about Dylan Roof here, who

759
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: was he claims inspired to go on his massacre by

760
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: reading about black on white crime, But this discussion has

761
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: very deep roots. And I'm kind of torn between seeing

762
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: Morton here as someone who handed it better than some

763
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: people in the right um because he did have two

764
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: very well prepared black guests to counter this line of argument,

765
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: or whether I'm just more unsettled by the fact that

766
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: he put this fucking argument on television at all. Like,

767
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: I don't know kind of where to land on that,

768
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: but it it leaves me feeling unsettled. Yeah, No, I

769
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: I don't trust anything that any of these people do.

770
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: So it's I he just did it for Ray. He

771
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: knew this was a hot button issue for a lot

772
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: of people, and he had a full panel so that

773
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: he could maximize the outrage and the controversy and just

774
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, you you don't get one person on there

775
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: to talk about their views, because that's not going to

776
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: start a fight. You have to get somebody else on

777
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: there to contradict what they're saying or counter what they're saying. Yeah, yeah,

778
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: that's uh, I think, I think what's going on here.

779
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: But you know who won't platform people spreading Nazi talking

780
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: points about race related crimes, Tom Hope, hopefully the fine

781
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: people bringing us these products and services. Yeah, they absolutely

782
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: do not, um unless it's in which case, oh boy,

783
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: here's ads. All right, we're back. Oh yeah. So Reverend

784
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: Al Sharpton was another media figure who got a massive

785
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 1: lee boost to his career thanks to the Morton Downey Jr. Show.

786
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: I want maybe not early, but he got this really

787
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: increased a lot of his visibility. He and Morton were

788
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: regular sparring partners, and they also were clearly friends. Al

789
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: made for great television. At one point he called another

790
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: guest a punk F word in a moment of rage.

791
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: In fact, it was Al's friendship with Morton Downy Jr.

792
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: That would prove to be the downfall of the Morton

793
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Downey Junior Show. From the Chicago Tribune quote, it all

794
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: came to a head when the show began focusing on

795
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: the case of Tajuana Brawley, a fifteen year old African

796
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: American girl who claimed to have been raped by six

797
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: white men, including a police officer, and had KKK and

798
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: other vile words scrawled on her body. Show after show

799
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: was devoted to this case, many featuring the Brawley adviser

800
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: and then relatively unknown Al Sharpton. Downey beat that story

801
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: to death, and his ratings began to plummet, especially after

802
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: Brawley's accusations were deemed false by a grand jury. So

803
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: it does seem to be a case where Brawley was lying.

804
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: I think it's because she had like stayed out late

805
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: and had to come up with an excuse, and it

806
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: just was like a kid doing a um thing, and

807
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: then it blew up and became national news. It's it's

808
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: a very sad story. I think she's still like for

809
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: the rest of her life, will oh money to one

810
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: of the people she accused to suit her. It's like

811
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: pretty fucked up tail and Moreton Danny Jr. Jumped on

812
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: it and took it as a crusade, not because he

813
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: cared about this woman and thought that it was true, um,

814
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: but because you know it was TV and he's more

815
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: Danny Jr. The day. It's exact same mentality behind the

816
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: debate we just listened to. Yep, yep, exactly now. The

817
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: Tawana Brawley case led to one of the most infamous

818
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: moments of nineteen eighties television, when Mort had al sharpened

819
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: on with a black, white right wing activist named Roy Inness.

820
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: The stated goal of the episode was to determine who

821
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: was the leader of Black America both in it's so

822
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: but um um, it's a little more complex than is

823
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: it Sharpen or Inness? But that's kind of like the

824
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: inference that like, yeah, um, both Inness and Sharpen received

825
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: a chorus of booze when they're introduced, because that's the

826
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of show this is. Mort starts the interview by

827
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: bringing up comments Sharpton made criticizing en Us. Sharpton goes

828
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: on a rant, calling us a sellout and then this happens,

829
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: and it's in a speaking at the start of this,

830
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: I'm one of the few, none bigger than black leaders. Run.

831
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: I will say, let me stay now, let's deal with

832
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: the facts. Let's go to the record tonight. We want

833
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: to deal with the records and the facts. Please do

834
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: it on this program, your program. You heard me. You

835
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: have me in tape defending this man recently, even after

836
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: the shenanigans with him and the other is a lot

837
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: of crap. Let brother, you have your time, brother ship. Yeah,

838
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: he just pushed out, He just he just shoved his

839
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: ass down onto the stage and a bunch of dudes

840
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: rush up to start shoving ship balls. Yeah. He kissed

841
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: him right off the stage. He pushed him right off

842
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: the day him stage. Yeah yeah, And it went fucking viral.

843
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: This moment was huge. Every TV show, like every news

844
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: show had the clips of this fucking weeks, like in

845
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: a way that like no genocide today goes as viral.

846
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: Is this clip of ol Sharpton getting shoved off a

847
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: stage went um, which is not a great because yeah

848
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: because yeah, yeah, yeah, I bet yeah, but we all

849
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: do um. Yeah. After the Tawanna Brawley case fell apart.

850
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: Nothing could abait the downward slide of Morton's ratings. The

851
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: next year, in nine nine, he made a desperate stab

852
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: at regaining his relevance. He filed a police report claiming

853
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: three skinheads had jumped him, beaten him up, and drawn

854
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: a swastika on his forehead and an airplane bat and

855
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: an airport bathroom. The police almost immediately came forward and

856
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: said that the facts of the case as he had

857
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: reported it to them, or is he he is he

858
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: reported to the media did not align with like what

859
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: he had said. Basically said like he's fucking lying. We

860
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: have no evidence that any of this is true. Um

861
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: that we can't substantiate any of his claims. And it

862
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: came out later one of his friends testified, like he

863
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: faked it. He like drew a swatstika, Like the photos

864
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: that he gave the cops are different from like the

865
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: photos that he put up on TV of like the

866
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: swastika on his forehead. Like he just like faked getting

867
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: jumped by skinheads to try to drum up like a

868
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: media controversy. He's just a desperate scum bought bag. He

869
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: made several comeback Yeah, and Android created to be a scumback,

870
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: just a ship droid full of just spewing poop. So

871
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: he made a few different comeback attempts, and he tried

872
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: to make a living doing talk radio, and he maintained

873
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: actually surprisingly robust career in movies. You've already mentioned He's

874
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: nine Bills and Predator to He was in Revenge of

875
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: the Nerds three, which is really quite a film. Uh,

876
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: he was in The Silencer. He was in Tales of

877
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: the crypt to name but a few episodes, although Wally

878
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 1: George really should have been the one in Tales from

879
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: the Crops. Yeah. Yeah. In six he was diagnosed with

880
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: lung cancer, which was embarrassing. Yeah, how dare you really?

881
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: We have we we have to thank Comrades Cigarettes for

882
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: getting two thirds of these guys out of the planet

883
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: critical support to chain smoking. Um, this was embarrassing. By

884
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: the sword, you die by the sword. And he had

885
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: he made a big deal about being a smoker on

886
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: the air, kind of like the way kind of Bill

887
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: Hicks did. If you listen to some of like those

888
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: routines um a cigarette and like every clip we've yeah,

889
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: he would talk about like these aren't bad for me?

890
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: I look better than you. You know, we read that

891
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: clip a little bit earlier, and he does. He does,

892
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: mother looks. He doesn't look good. He doesn't look good. Um,

893
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: he's all teeth. Yeah. He had, he had, He had

894
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: made so much hay out of like being a smoker.

895
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: He had autographed cigarettes. Seed promised never to quit. But

896
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: then he gets lung cancer and so he immediately comes

897
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: an anti smoking activist, begging people to stop. He told

898
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: one interviewer, I used a cigarette as a combat weapon,

899
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: and I never gave much thought to the chance that

900
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: this cigarette would most likely kill me, which is very

901
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: funny or Yeah. Morton died in two thousand one, but

902
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: his influence lives on. When his show was canceled in

903
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, a TV reviewer with the Chicago Tribune

904
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: wrote that the cancelation quote removes from our lives one

905
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: of the most abrasive people ever to appear on television.

906
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: But do not think that this represents a move towards

907
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: a calmer climb Downey wetted people's appetites for confrontational TV.

908
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: There will be someone to take his place. That's a

909
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: that's prescient. Yeah. In an opinion column for CNN. Michael

910
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: Smerconish makes this point quote. When Fox News launched in

911
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, it adopted the talk radio playbook, and

912
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: NBC briefly gained viewers by giving Keith Olberman a Downey

913
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 1: like platform for his diet tribes against President George W. Bush.

914
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: The model for each was a toned down version of

915
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: that which Downey had established. Entertainment masked his news constant conflict,

916
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: good guys versus bad guys, and preordained outcomes. But Downey's

917
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: influence extended beyond media outlets and should be appreciated, is

918
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: more than just another contributing factor to the decline of

919
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: America's cultural health. The media paradigm he fathered has taken

920
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: a toll on the way in which we are governed.

921
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: There has been a noticeable uptick and incivility and polarization

922
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: among our leaders in the exact same period in which

923
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: the media has moved to the extremes, in part because

924
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: of the power that Downey's successors exert over primary voters.

925
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: Now In this columns Mrconish sites Brian Rosenwald, a fellow

926
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: at the University of Pennsylvania who did his doctoral dissertation

927
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: on talk radio. Rosenwald rights Downey's heirs have fostered polarization

928
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: through their influence in primary elections. Republican members of Congress

929
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: must fear infuriating talk radio and cable news hosts because

930
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: media personalities can use their platforms to offset several major advantages,

931
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: including significantly greater fundraising and name recognition, held by incumbents

932
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: in primary all actions, hosts demand purity from elected officials,

933
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: label compromises treason, and glorify Congress Congress's rhetorical bomb throwers

934
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: such as Senator Ted Gruz. Yeah, um, it's pretty pretty good.

935
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: There's some quotes in this that are talking about like

936
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: polarization in Washington that notes that like as late as

937
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, the typical member of one party voted

938
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: with his colleagues his party members just over sixty percent

939
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: of the time, and that those numbers have raised every decade,

940
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: and two Democrats voted together of the time Republicans of

941
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: the time. Unfortunately, uh, those able to reverse those trends

942
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: have ceded the debate to the loudest voices. A Gallop

943
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: survey released in January you found that more Republicans regard

944
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: themselves as independent forty three. Uh, there's more Americans regard

945
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: themselves as independent forty three than Democrat thirty or Republican.

946
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: But any ground gained by the nonpartisan ranks continues to

947
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: be offset by higher political interest resting at the political extremes.

948
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: It's all about passion. As documented by Pew Research Center

949
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: this past this past spring, liberals and conservatives exceed moderates

950
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: and independence and their levels of political interest, which translates

951
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: into voter participation. So it's it's got Most people have

952
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: been turned off by this, this hyperpartisanization, but those who

953
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: stay in the game just get angrier and angrier at

954
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: each other, and it it just makes for an angrier

955
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,959
Speaker 1: country and moren Downey Jr. Was certainly the most successful

956
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: person on TV doing it before our modern media era

957
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: because moly George was kind of a marginal figure. He

958
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: was he was influential and o c and influential to

959
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: other media figures. But MORETN Danny Junior had a national

960
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: show right like because he was everywhere. Um, I knew

961
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: who he was, and I was a little kid. I

962
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: didn't even really know why I knew who he was

963
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: what people knew. Morton Downey Jr. Um, he was kind

964
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: of this perfect synthesis, and that's what it took to

965
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: really get like this kind of specific kind of right

966
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: wing media off the ground was a synthesis of Joe

967
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: Pine and Wally George Morton Downey Jr. Was the first

968
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: guy to do that. And you know he eventually he

969
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: flew too close to the sun and drew a swastika

970
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 1: on his own forehead. But you know, like the Tale

971
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: of It, just this in the Tale of It, it

972
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: did happen in an air force tom So that's true. Um,

973
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: what a dope, What a dope. Yeah, three people I

974
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: didn't I don't like very much. Um well, if it's

975
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: any consolation, they're all super dead. They are very dead,

976
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: two thirds of them because they smoked too much. Bam.

977
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: But it's a it's a good thing they didn't do

978
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: like irreparable damage to the country. Thankfully. We're sailing right

979
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: along and that's a good thing. Like the beginning, Like

980
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: the seeds they planted haven't grown at a terrifying fucking

981
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: forests of racist Oh yeah no, that never happened. Speaking

982
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: of which, I'm gonna open my news app for the

983
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: first time since nineteen see what's been happening? Oh, dear Tom,

984
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: I have some bad news about the Twin Towers. You

985
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: may want to sit down for this one. Damn it?

986
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: Did they smoke too many cigarettes too? In a way?

987
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: Tom in away, Tom, that that brings us to the

988
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: end of our long journey. Thanks, thanks, thanks for sitting

989
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: through this with me and a lot of clips. I

990
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: now know I have a fuller picture of Morton Downey's Jr.

991
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: In my mind. Glad that It's the only goal I've

992
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: ever had for this show, which is why this is

993
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: our final episode. All right, Tom, what do you gotta

994
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just just exhausted. Now, I'm just sad.

995
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: Now I'm exhausted, and I'm sad. I'm gonna get it.

996
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a Flaxen Wally George Wig. I'm gonna

997
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: get a Wally George Wig. I need to I need

998
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: to do something to recharge after this. Maybe I'll watch

999
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 1: hot Rod again or or uh watch Predator to watch

1000
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: Predator too. You're right with Gary Busey. Thank god. By

1001
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: the way, Lover punches Morton Downey right in the face.

1002
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: The best thing about Gary Busey's rolling that is that

1003
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: Wally George could absolutely have played Gary Busey's character in

1004
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: that movie. He's playing George in that movie, and fucking

1005
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: Morton Downey Jr. Is in it too. My god, what

1006
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: a film. I'm gonna get this Predator because he's on

1007
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: a merry. I kind of want to rewatch Revenge of

1008
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: the Nerds three and see what the Danny jan Your

1009
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: was doing in that ship. I wouldn't. I didn't. I

1010
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: didn't really enjoy watching it the first time. At least

1011
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: Predator to has I think the beach if I'm remembering right,

1012
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: it was on it was in like the Bahamas or something.

1013
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: I think it's Nerds in Para, Nerds in Paradise, that's right.

1014
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the samples. At least Jesus

1015
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: Christ Revenge of the Nerds. That whole movie is a bastard.

1016
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: That's it's the Morton Downey of film series could do

1017
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: what you could do an episode on just the Revenge

1018
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: of the Nerds Jesus Christ. All right, Well you gotta

1019
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: plug anything, tom oh? Sure? Um, I have a podcast

1020
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: network game an employed that I do with my partner,

1021
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: my podcasting partner, David Bell, also from Cracked, um from Cracked. Yeah,

1022
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: we all used to work there, we did. Um. You

1023
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: can check it out gamely not game dot com, Patreon

1024
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: dot com, slash gamefully Unemployed, where you can check out

1025
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: our patreon. We got all kinds of cool stuff on their,

1026
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: like exclusive podcasts and other things that we do with

1027
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: our patrons. It's it's a lot of funny to check

1028
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: it out. Else to do, right Aget Colleider and I

1029
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: write for some more news with your friends Cody and

1030
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: Katie Robert. Yeah yeah, I mean friends, enemies friend me yeah,

1031
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: frien ofmies uh, eternal eternal opponents um and also right

1032
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: for dog um. It's all kinds of that. You find me,

1033
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: just google me, Google tom Ryman. Find him at his home,

1034
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, please do Yeah, no, docs me on attack

1035
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: him in an airport bathroom and draw swastika on his

1036
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: forehead to improve his career. And for unclear reason, I

1037
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: really do wonder what was the what was the game

1038
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: plan there? Morton? How is this going to help? He

1039
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: was gonna he was gonna make that in like three

1040
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: months of shows, hunting down the Nazis who beat him up. Yeah,

1041
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: he had a whole plan. Yeah, he had a whole

1042
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: pitch dick. God, I wish we'd all just agreed to, like,

1043
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: see what he was going to do first before I

1044
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: do want to kind of see where he's going with us.

1045
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: It's obviously this is all bullshit, but let's see how

1046
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: long he rides this. Yeah, very funny. All right, Well

1047
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 1: that's the episode