WEBVTT - Willie Nile 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Set podcast. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:18.520 My guest today is singer, songwriter musician Willie Nile. Willie, 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:20.919 you had an adventure at the end of the year 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.240 your home town of Buffalo. Tell us the story. Hello, Bob, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.680 thanks for having me. I was born in Buffalo, raised there, 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:30.680 and I live in New York. I've lived in New 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.879 York off and on for about fifty years. And my dad, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:35.680 I have a father's one hundred and five years old, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.640 lives at home outside of Buffalo. One of my brothers 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.720 lives with him. In the last four years and he's 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.680 one hundred and five. But he's doing great. He goes 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.400 to church every day. He's like he just takes no medication. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.040 You'd think that he was in early eighties. So I 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.000 went up to Buffalo for Christmas and staying at his home. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:58.800 He's a great storyteller and funny guy. And after a 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.600 couple of days, we saw this big storm was coming in, 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.160 you know, the Buffalo blizzard, and I read about it 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.400 ahead of time about how high winds, really high winds 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.280 and cold weather it can cause frostbite. Anyway, So I 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.720 wake up on Friday morning, two days before Christmas twenty 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.959 third of December, and I, you know, eleven fifteen, I 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.520 wake up. My brother says we're on a power no heat, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.440 and I thought, you're kidding me, right. Apparently someone in 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.080 a truck ran into a utility pol and with a 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.720 driving band on. I wanted them to put that person's 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.680 picture on the front of the Buffalo newspaper so that 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.360 everyone know who ran into the pole. They caused eight 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.600 hundred and fifty some homes to be without power. So 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.680 there was no power, Okay. I got up, got dressed, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.039 and Dad was doing Crossford puzzles like all this. You know, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.120 he doesn't complain, it's really great. So we were without 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.320 power for three days and three nights. It was eighty 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:56.040 mile in our winds. It was eight degrees outside and 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.080 it was freezing. It was so cool. I grew up 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.360 in Buffalo, you know, I know the winner there's eighty 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.480 five words for snow, and buff there's not. But it 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.200 was so cold. I had we had a fireplace, but 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.160 no wood, had you know, gas fireplace. We turned it on, 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.320 lit it all the way up, but it doesn't emanate 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.160 much heat. I would put my hands at the top 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.960 of the you know, the fireplace just to hole. You know, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.760 the stones had warmth that it didn't emanate heat. Long 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.560 story short, there was a neighbor next door who was 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.200 really great x marine. In the middle of this blizzard. 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.960 There was four feet of snow in the driveway. It 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.160 was beautiful. Everything was going sideways because the wind was 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:40.560 so hard, and so I thought, my phone's dying, you know, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:42.480 like later in the day on Friday, and we had 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.680 no contact. We were we were everyone was stranded in 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.079 the neighborhood. Everywhere there was so much snow. So I 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.160 made me It took about ten minutes to go just 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.560 right next door. I used to shovel as an anchor 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.639 to get through the snow. Was I just to pull 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.800 myself up. Knocked on their door and they that they 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.240 hesitated to open the door. There was some figure in 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.240 black outside their door. They didn't know who it was. 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.040 The guy answered and said, Hi, you know I lived 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.000 next door. My dad's one hundred and five and my 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.440 phone is dying. Can I use your car, you know, 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.840 to charge the phone. He goes, oh, we'll do it inside. 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.840 So I took my phone. He charged my phone like 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.400 six or seven times over the course of three days. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.440 Sunday morning. The third day, they couldn't do it anymore. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.840 And the second when I went back Saturday morning to 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.560 get my phone one time, I said what's your phone number? 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:33.600 And he said, I'll give it to you later. Go No, 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.080 I'll take it. I'll take it now. I took my 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.120 glove off for thirty seconds. How long does this take? 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.360 The type of number the phone? I typed it in 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.240 and you know, my hands were really cold, put it 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.080 back on, went home and my fingers, my three fingers 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.080 on my right hand are still a little numb. It's 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.160 gotten better, but it's not one hundred percent. And this 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.520 was well whatever. It was a twenty fourth of December. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.600 Long story short, we had We were freezing. Getting in 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.760 bed on Friday night was brutal. Dressed we might have 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.440 been going skiing in the Alps. We were dressed that 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.560 that much on multiple coats, hat, socks, all kinds of clothes, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.400 and it didn't help much. Woke up early early six 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.320 o'clock because it was so cold you couldn't sleep. And 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.360 Dad was great. My brother he took the grill off 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.280 his grill and put it on the fireplace and on 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.960 the great and he made some eggs and some coffee 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.400 for Dad, but it was still so cold, and Dad 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.039 never complained. Once I had we had wine, you know. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:32.880 So I opened up bottle of wine. We were drinking 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:34.960 and I made a couple of video clips and put 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.080 them on Facebook. Next thing I know, on Tuesday night, 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:43.400 Inside Edition goes meanwhile in Buffalo, this guy cuts to me, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.560 this guy, So I'm changing my name officially to this guy. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.800 And they did edits my clip of Dad, and the 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.640 thing about the clip was and so many people responded, oh, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.560 your father. I love your dad. You know, he's a 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.240 really good guy. But people, here's one hundred and five. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.320 And I said, I'm looking at my phone, you know, selfie, Hey, Dad, 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.960 say hello everybody, Hi, everybody. We're having a blast. He 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.800 holds up his glass of red wine. And it was 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.600 really cold, and I did another clip where I said, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:10.920 just so you know how cold it is, and I 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.760 would just breathe out and you could see my breath 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.560 three feet away, you know. And it was pretty rough 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.479 and brutal. On the third day, in the morning, I 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.440 woke up with chills and low fever, and I thought, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.719 this is going downhill, you know, So I called there's 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.120 a plow service we have for my dad. And I 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.000 called the guy and say, I'll give you five hundred 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.440 dollars if you can get my dad out of here. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.440 You know, Max's wife lived a mile and a half away, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.200 and he says, I'm trying to get there. I hope 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.560 you in two hours. He called me up. Two hours later, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.480 he goes, I'm at the six houses away and I'm 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.360 stuck in ten feet of snow. But i can get out, 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.599 and I'm gonna go to the local fire hall. Because 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.279 I called nine one one, I called the National Guard. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.919 I got put on lists. I called the fire hall. Anyway, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:56.240 he went to the fire hall and said there's one 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.960 hundred and five year old man in a house that 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.440 they're stranded. We weren't the only one stranded, but you know, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.760 it wasn't eighty five, he wasn't ninety five. He was 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.640 one hundred and five. And he didn't say a word. Occasionally, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.719 it's say, you know that born name is Robert Bob. Bob, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.040 turn on the Christmas tree lights. I go, dad, there's 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.240 no power, Oh yeah, yeah right, you know, God bless him. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.440 He never complained once I did. I complained. My brother says, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:23.800 it's not going to help the complain. I go, well, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.760 it's helping me. The police and fire rescued us on 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.400 the third day at three o'clock and there was a 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.279 I didn't know what you call him, a snow cat 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.120 or something, one of those a snow removal thing with 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.080 not wheels, but like a tank, snow cat, I don't know. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.600 It went over everything, got down our street, went in 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.080 a driveway, backed out and took snow out enough for 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.840 another emergency vehicle to back end and we got in 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.200 the car. That was the first heat we had in 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.960 three days, and I thought, wow, And I was thinking 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.599 about the people in Ukraine during that I thought, you 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.279 know what we have. At least we have gas, we 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.520 could cook, you know, whatever we have. I could put 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.120 my hands on the stones. You know, my hands are 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.440 really you know, I'm extra sensitive now to the cold, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.120 and there's still numb in these fingers in the tree. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.760 But I thought about the poor people in Ukraine. They're 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.840 getting bombed to hell, you know, just absolute savagery, and 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.600 they don't have gas, fireplaces I can turn on. So 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.080 I just really my heart went out to them. And 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.520 they took us to a warming center and it was 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.360 a junior high school. And you know when one hundred 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.920 and five years old, sitting on a little stool, dad 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.400 said I need something at my back, and someone heard 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.600 them and went and got a real chair. And I 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.320 must say this, there's a silver lining to us, the 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.440 way that neighbors treated neighbors, like I believe in this country. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.880 I mean, it's obviously a lot of a lot wrong, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.040 a lot wrong in the history, there's so much wrong. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.520 But when you know people are shoveling each other's driveways out. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.160 I saw a neighbor across the street go into the 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.160 next two houses checking on people. The guy next door 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.040 on Saturday morning, he comes over and brings a bag 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.400 of handwarmers. Those handwarmers saved our butts, they really did. 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.760 I carry one of my in my pocket now, just because. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:15.200 And the volunteers, the cops, the firemen, the people volunteering 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:17.720 in the vehicle that rescue. We were in a car. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.880 We were five different cars that day, and because we 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.080 went to two warming centers, went to a hotel, whatever, 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.880 three hotels, finally got in. But the way people pitched 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.200 in to help each other, it was really I thought, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.000 this is really encouraging to me. People are there is 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.560 good in a lot of people. So it was really 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.600 a brutal experience. Dad was fine. I mean he I've 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.280 heard of going to bed Saturday night. Second night. I 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.360 wasn't going to go back in that bed. I moved 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.640 the couch in front of the fireplace. Even though it 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.040 didn't give much heat, it was light the illusion of heat, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.720 and I heard Dad get into the bed. Oh he's 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.679 a hundred and five, were crying out loud. Anyway, the 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.000 silver lining was that I'm with his man. There's some 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.120 really good people. People pitched him to help each other, 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.559 and it was heartening to see. Anyway, that was my Christmas. Okay, 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.080 you say your father called out to Bob. Your real 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.160 name is Bob Noonan. Yes, how did you become Willie dile? 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.920 So I moved. I graduated from the University of Buffalo 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.840 in seventy two, and I know I was. I was 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.880 writing poetry in high school and college. I started writing songs. 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.080 I played to classical piano lessons. My grandfather ran an 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.120 orchestra for twenty plus years in Vaudeville when he died 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.880 in fifty three. Eddie Cantor had a nationwide TV show, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.360 and does It Come up Camaradie with musicians, and my 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.800 dad has talked about it for years. And when he died, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.000 figured Eddie Cantor's got a live TV show across the 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.600 nation half an hour. He's probably on the air for 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.080 twenty minutes or twenty two minutes. And he took time 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.319 out to say, my good friend Dick Noonan passed away 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.959 this week, and Condole insisted the family that he would 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.360 do that from New York City. I thought, man, those 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.959 guys must have been close. Both Angles. Robinson used to 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.400 send him Christmas car every year and he also carried 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.840 a gun, you know, a black man with money. And uh, 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.120 it's just fascinating stories growing up. So I'm in high 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.880 school as we started studying the poets, and I become 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.840 I think maybe I'm a poet because I stare at 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.080 sunlight when it's coming into classroom and blah blah blah. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.600 So I started writing songs. So in my college years, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.160 I was writing songs, and then when I graduated, I 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.120 went to New York City to try to make a living, 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.800 you know, making trying to get my songs recorded. You know, 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.560 I was never I didn't. I don't care about fame. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.040 It's not stinking rich. I'll take that. Give me on 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.120 the minute, I'll be stinking. I could be stinking rich. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.160 But fame didn't do a lot for Michael Jackson. That's 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.520 not why I do what I do. And anyway, So 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.040 I used to play open mics. I'm writing rock and 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.720 roll songs, and but I couldn't afford a band. I 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.760 was broke, did not want to join a group, no 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.160 curiosity whatsoever for that. I just wanted to sing the 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.240 songs I wrote. So just acoustic guitar open mics, and 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:01.560 I used to the Bitter End, had one every week 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.720 on Bleaker Street, Folks City, whatever, a few different ones. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.920 So one night, when I was at the Cafe a 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.800 Go Go, I went on stage. This is why I 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.520 changed my name. Let's to answer your question. I'm on 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.040 stage at the Cafe Go Go, and I played three songs, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.040 you know, and I would very expressive when I play. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.600 They were rock and roll songs. And I jumped off 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.240 the stage when I was done or whatever. So I'm 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.240 clouding around and introducing imaginary characters playing behind me. There's 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.959 little bit event Beethoven on bass. Whatever. Anyway, So when 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.920 I was done with my three songs, set. I'm walking 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.040 off the stage. The guy announcing goes, we'll have some 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.000 more gorilla music for you in because it was suddenly two. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.320 It was like sensitive singer song at a time. You know, 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.199 no offense to James Taylor, but he was like a 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.600 successful guy at the time, and there were all these sensitive, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.240 oh so sensitive people, and this guy said, we'll have 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.120 some moret guerrilla music. I wanted to take my guitar 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.760 and smash him over the head, and my wife said, no, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.040 no, no no, we can't afford a new one. Don't and 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.240 I didn't. The following week, I'm in line at the 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.720 Bitter End. I put my name on a list, stand 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.839 in line for forty five minutes because back then there 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.760 were long lines. I'm in line and I can in line. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.080 And the comedian who was taking the names it just 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.600 didn't care anything about music. And I put my name 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.920 down and he didn't get until three or three in 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.640 the morning. He would put his friends on ahead of 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.520 the people on the list. Very disrespectful. Whatever. I take 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.120 it as it comes. Next week, I go there and 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.920 I'm in line waiting in the rain. I said, I go, hey, 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.600 my name is Bob Noonan. He goes, I'm sorry what 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.440 I couldn't hear you? What? I go, It doesn't matter, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.280 you can make one up. He goes, Oh no, no, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.440 he goes, it's very important. It gives me the thirty 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.920 second lecture about how important is what your name is? 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.760 Oh no, it makes a big difference. Oh really, says I. Well, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.360 in that case, my name is Huey Rosenbag and he 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.640 goes Rosenberg. No, no, Rosenberg like the pictures mound. You know, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.800 I refused. I refused to play that game. To this day, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.719 I do not. I will not. So the next week 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:04.800 I I was I was uh. First week I was 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.440 Huey Rosenback. Next week I was osgod pe Quad. I 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:13.120 gave the guy different every name Modown's umberto snorts. I 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.200 just gave this guy a different name every week. He 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.280 didn't know the difference. He did not care. So my 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.040 wife and I would sit in the back waiting for 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.360 this clown to say this ridiculous name. And I was 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:29.320 watching Uh, It's great PBS documentary documentary but series search 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.640 for the Nile Terrific Series. And one night I woke 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.720 up Willie Nile. I'm a philosophy major to say something's 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.520 nihilistic made me laugh to say, Willie Nilly is kind 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.400 of selfie facing, which I thought, you know, if they're 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.439 going to praise me, they can use their name I 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.480 made up. If they're going to slam me in the press, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.560 go ahead, use my made up name. So it's and 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:50.839 it's I thought it was a good rock and roll 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.920 name and it served me well. So yeah, that's that's 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.040 how I changed my name and why it did it. Okay, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.240 In your private life, people call your boss, how do 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.480 they call you? Willie? Everybody since seventy two, it's Willie. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.920 When I'm back with family, cousins, you know, or brothers 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.120 and sisters on one of a it's a very large family, 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.120 and we have one hundred and five. When we all 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.960 go on vacation every year, it's Bob or Bobby. But 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.719 everybody else on the planet's Willie. Okay. So you grew 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.160 up in Buffalo. How many generations was your fabily at Buffalo? 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.280 My father was born in Buffalo in nineteen seventeen. His 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.480 father was born in Lowell, Massachusetts, and his mother in 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:38.720 eighteen eighty four. Their parents were born in Ireland, and 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:43.800 so and my mom's parents something similar. Her parents were 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.560 born in eighteen eighty nine and eighteen I'm sorry, eighteen 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:53.600 ninety nineteen hundred, and her father's grandfather was born in 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.400 French Indian Territory. I remember seeing, you know, I thought, 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.240 and I looked at a picture of him when he 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.400 was I used to work at Showtime TV Networks as 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.480 a proofreader when I got broke. I was a proof 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.560 reader for not a bunch of years, and I was 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.840 running my little record label out of my little cubicle, 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.400 and I put I would print out these old family 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.480 portraits and put them all over the queue, at least, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.200 you know, old school stuff. One day, I'm looking at 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.960 my grandfather's picture when he was three, my mother's father, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.440 and I'm going to wait a minute. He was from 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.760 Attica in New York and his great great his great grandfather, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.760 now his grandfather was born in French Indian Territory. I 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:31.840 look at his face, and he was He died at 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.920 sixty from smoking since he was twelve. Check black hair, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.840 really dark skin. I go, there's Indian blood in this guy. 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.720 You know, you could see the photograph. So anyway, that's 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.960 where they go back, mid mid three generations, something like that, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.840 mid eighteen hundreds of all came over here. The Irish famine, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.480 you know, kicked a lot of people out of Ireland. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:55.400 Why Buffalo, So? Why Buffalo? So in the mills and 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.040 a low Massachusett started closing, you know, and there was 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.760 no work. So my father, my grandfather, Dick Noonan, and 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:09.000 his brother John Noonan were musicians. You know. Dad tells 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.960 the story of at one point the local pastor of 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.640 the priest, the priest from the local church, came to 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.680 the house to talk to my mother, my grandmother's father 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.560 this waiting, saying, your daughters shouldn't be going out with 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.440 a musician. That's not a good thing. You know. I 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:32.360 can't disagree. He was a sweetheart, but they were. John 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.560 noon and the older brother son, I'm gonna go to Buffalo, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.440 see if there's worked there. So he moved to Buffalo, 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.600 was there a few months, called his brother and said 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.160 there's tons of work here. Because Buffalo was like the 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.480 gateway to the west, you know, to northern Canada and 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.400 the west. If you left New yorkle outs that you 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.200 went Buffalo as a main And I often wonder because 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.360 my brother, my uncle, my great uncle, John Noonan, was 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.800 the orchestra leader for Cha's Buffalo great, great old theater. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.520 I saw in excess there. That's an amazing place, and 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.560 I'm sure that the Marx brothers passed through there. I'd 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.600 love to talk to both those guys. Go tell me 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.400 about the Marx brothers, you know whatever. So, yeah, that's 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.119 how that's how they got to Buffalo. So what did 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.119 your one hundred and five year old father do for 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.919 a living. My father, when he got out of the 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:25.119 army in h forty five, my father was an accountant. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.600 He was a CPA, took the CPA exam, had a 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.960 couple of kids, and so he was a certified public 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.360 accountant for some years and early fifties fifty three or four, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.080 he had a beer distributorship, which was awesome for us 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.959 kids because in nineteen sixty one, Elston Howard, the Yankees 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.760 catcher MVP that year, of course, I mean, came to 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.240 our house. We were like, if you're back then the 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.159 only TV was two stations. There was Channel two and 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.480 Channel four. This is before Channel seven. Think where we 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.160 are now and think what my father has seen since 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.000 nineteen seventeen. So Elston Howard during the day weren't making 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:06.960 much money. So in the wintertime. They had other jobs 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.439 and he was a pr whatever for I don't know, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.480 I was Lobat's Beer or Valentine Ale or what paps 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.679 blue Ribbon, one of those. And my dad was the 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.200 distributor in Buffalo. We weren't rich, you know, we weren't poor, 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.280 but we were, you know, somewhere in the middle. And 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.800 Elston Howard came to our house. We were on the moon. 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.200 What was I in nineteen sixty one, I was born 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.960 or forty eight, so you know, I was like, you know, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.240 I was just a kid, thirteen years old or whatever. 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.639 Elston Howard come on, you know, and yeah, it was 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.080 it was priceless and he was really nice. His hands 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.399 were huge and I couldn't believe my eyes. Yeah, okay, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:44.560 he went back. My father went back to be in 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.720 a CPA and we had no money. He lost the business. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.040 It was it was bad. Business was bad. He lost it, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.720 and really, you know, he had to say. He took 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.200 a job teaching accounting, so he was fine. He was 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.359 an accountant, taught for a few years, paid back his debts, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.840 and then he worked till he was seventy eight as 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.479 an accountant. Hard working guy to this day, he wakes up, 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:08.439 goes to church, comes home, has breakfast, hits the crossword puzzles, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.480 gets his pencil out, has got his e racers, got 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.359 his pencil sharpener. He has crossor puzzles for a couple 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.399 of hours. Then you'll read for an hour or two 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.840 and read books. He loves history. Then you go back 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.399 to doing more crossword puzzles. So the accountant in him 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.159 is still there. When Mom died seventeen years ago at 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.000 the age of eighty seven, he just he says, you 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:27.879 got to just get up. I said, how do you 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.280 How are you doing it? How are you feeling? You know? 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.240 Like some months later he goes, I'm all right. He says, 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.880 you got to pick yourself up. Life will hit you hard, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.320 it'll hit all of us. Hit don't getting around at 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:41.840 And he said, you gotta just pick yourself up and 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.120 get on with it, you know. And he he sure 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.320 did it. So accounting in him I still see at 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.800 the kitchen table when he's doing his crossword puzzles. A 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.199 dear guy. He went to the doctor this week. My 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.719 sister took him for a check up. Doctor looks at 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.360 his hands. He's got a lot of bruises. Doctor says, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.960 what happened to your hands? I was checked by a chicken. Anyway, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.120 I've been writing down things he's been saying. I've got 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.800 like thirty pages, and I have hours of him. When 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.320 he starts telling stories when I was a boy, I 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.880 get out my phone and hit voice memo. I got hours. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:22.360 I love the guy. We're all lucky having still So 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.520 your parents stayed married all that time? Oh did they ever? 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.480 They would wake up in the morning, you know they 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.400 were They went there very devout Catholics, and they would 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.119 wake up in the morning, you know, get cleaned up, 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.800 get dressed, and go to church. Before the church, Good morning, Bob, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:39.800 Good morning Joe. And they kiss each other on the 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:41.840 lips and they go, what planet are you people from? 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.160 They're like eighty five years old. They just loved each other. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.480 It was so beautiful to see. We're a lucky bunch 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.080 of kids having parents like that. How many kids in 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.400 the family. There were eight children in the family, six boys, 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.720 two girls, and we had nineteen fifty six. We always 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.840 saw that dad was the center of the family until 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.359 mom died and we realized, whoa, whoa, whoa. He's just 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.720 sweet woman, gentle kind. Never had a bad word about anybody. 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.680 I remember in nineteen seventy two, I'm watching TV and 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.080 Richard Nixons on I'm sitting there with Magoon and point, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.160 this is a bad guy. This is a bad Oh, Bobby, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.040 there's good and everyone. And I went, yeah, I'm not 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.199 so sure about this guy. And she she wouldn't hear it. 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.760 She was a sweet woman, and they had the greatest relationship. 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.040 But in fifty six Mom decides they were part of 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.960 this thing called the Christian family movement. We said more 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:37.000 prayers growing up than I don't know. And she said, 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.240 I think we should get a foreign exchange student to 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.439 my father. Okay, Joe, And so we got eight kids. 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:49.600 A cousin who was a lost sheet, you know. He 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:54.479 joined a Trappist monastery and he was suicidal and the 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.879 head of the monastery called my dad. He was like nineteen. 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.320 He called my dad, he goes, this guy's in really 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.600 bad shape. You should come and get him. So that 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.159 one and got him, took him back home, and I 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:06.800 thought he lived with us for two or three years. 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.880 It turns out it was ten. And mother, with her 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.440 love and her kindness, you know, the guy did great. 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.320 Graduated from Kinesius College, got a master's you know. And anyway, 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.719 so with nine people in the house and two parents, 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:22.280 my mom thinks it's a great idea to get a 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:26.640 foreign exchange student. So Elena Segatti from Bueno Cyres, sixteen 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.359 year old comes to our house. Boy did we love her. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.679 She stayed a year. When she left, we cried for 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.000 two days, every one of us, balling our eyes out 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.560 like a little baby. I'm serious. And the next year 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:43.480 we had Francis Kuggenheim from Dunkirk, France, and again we 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.000 just all hit it off. Was so a year. And 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:51.240 the year after that was Ronado zenenga banker's son from Milan, Italy. 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.800 And you know, they came and went. My parents eventually 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.840 start every year we had some foreign exchange student. And 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:02.040 because we lived in Buffalo near and I Falls, where 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.920 foreign visitors would come all the time, they would go 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:06.439 to this Christian family we want to go to a 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.680 normal American family came to our house and we knew 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:11.320 it was not a normal American family. There was no 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.879 house around our neighborhood that was going All this stuff 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:17.480 was going on. We had a governor from India, we 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.840 had the head of the education thing in Vietnam. Who 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.480 or red robes, who my mother couldn't speak to because 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:26.399 she was female, or wait on, my father had to 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:30.439 I didn't dig that anyway. There was so much name 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.639 a country in this world. They came to our house. 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:34.960 So it was us kids from what was I eight 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.960 years old? Seven eight years old? Had foreign visitors, priests 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.920 was priest was in jail for twenty years in China. 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.560 Taught people our family how to use chopsticks. We had 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.720 a guy from Hungry in fifty seven or eight whenever 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.440 they had the revolution fifty six without a thumb. They 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:56.239 tortured him, cut his thumb off. Nice guy. We just 0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:00.159 name So growing up with different people, different language, is, 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.480 different dress, different smells, and it was fascinating experience. It 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.959 was not normal. So we had eight kids in the family, 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:11.080 Long West cousin and everybody from around the world. Okay, 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:12.679 so if the eight kids, where are you in the 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:16.800 hierarchy of what kind of kid were you growing up? Well, 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.760 in the hierarchy, I was fourth, and my brother Richard, 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:23.840 Tom Nancy, then myself Teresa, Joey friend and John and 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:25.760 I was fourth. So they were ahead of me, three 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:28.240 of them and behind me. So I saw him coming 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:32.480 and going, and I was kind of like, I wouldn't 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:34.879 say the wise guy the group, but like, you know, 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:37.720 with that many kids, you could you could run wild, 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:40.560 which we did, and I had a lot of fun. 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.880 I love my brothers and sisters very much, and we're 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:48.480 all really close to this day. And I was inquisitive. 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:51.920 I would walk into a room like at two or 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.119 three years old. I remember, I remember seeing a two 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.679 years old I'm what, I was just about to go 0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:00.440 to bed. And my grandfather, the piano player, boy he played. 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:02.760 He would throw at a white sheet over the piano, 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.160 play the sheet. That was a parlor trick, I was told. 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:08.639 And he would play a song like in the Shade 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.520 of the Old Apple Tree. Well hit the word tree. 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.399 He was the most the wrongest note you could hit 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.520 in the piano in the Shade of the Old Apple Tree. 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.240 And the women he had him laughing and crying. I 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:23.320 saw that, and I saw and I heard all kinds 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:25.600 of stories about the early part of the last century. 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.560 So I really my grandparents on my mom's I lived upstairs, 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.560 so there was a lot of neighborliness. And you know, 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:34.600 my grandma, Grandma said, if everybody pitches in the job, 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:37.600 will get done quicker. Just really good people, shirt off 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.440 your back kind of people, you know. So we were 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.399 really blessed because not everybody gets so lucky. Oh okay, 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:46.119 so did you have a lot of friends. Did you 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:49.800 do well in school? Yeah, I had a fair amount 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:51.359 of friend I had so many brothers and sisters, but 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.119 I had friends at school. School was easy for me. 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:56.639 I just would clown around. I didn't have to study, 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:01.160 you know. And I was very small. I'm small now, 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:04.520 but I was really small. I have I'm celiac now 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:07.879 fifty eight years old. All of a sudden, couldn't eat gluten. 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:11.200 But I ate everything up to then. But I must 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:14.440 not have digested everything because I just didn't grow much 0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:16.600 in high school. I grow a little bit. One of 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.440 my five four now a towering five four, I might say, 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:24.879 and I would. I had a great time in school, 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:27.240 I mean with it was friends. It was boring as hell, 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:31.200 like great school is. But my older brothers brought home 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:34.119 rock and roll records. They would have the radio on. 0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:36.840 I saw Elvis Presley on Ed Sullivan because they had 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.400 the TV on. So I was exposed. At the very beginning. 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.359 We went to camp. I'll never forget this. Camp Turner 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:47.159 was one of those summer camps for kids, and I 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:50.920 went one year, and my brothers would go, and you know, 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:52.720 it's a bunch of kids in the wild, animals in 0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:56.440 the country, in the woods, whatever. And on the way home, 0:26:56.560 --> 0:27:01.080 on the bus, they had a radio and Rock around 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:03.400 the Clock came on and the kids on the bus 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.240 started going crazy. And that beat. I went, oh, I 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:08.879 like this. It was rock and roll, you know, And 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.760 that was and Elvis, a little Richard, Chuck Barry, give 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:15.000 me a break, you know, and Buddy Holly Everly brothers. 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.200 So that stuff hit me a red square and I went. 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:20.840 It changed my life. And I met some years ago. 0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:23.359 I think it was two thousand and nine. I was. 0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:26.800 I went to south By Southwest. I went there about 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:31.160 four to five times, and this lawyer friend I played 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:33.080 at like twelve thirty in the morning or towel thirty 0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:35.600 in the afternoon some gigs, Willy came here as somebody 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:37.560 I want you to meet. And the way he said, 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.520 I thought this sounds interesting. He takes me over near 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.399 the merchship because Willy, this is Marie Elena Holly and 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:46.800 I almost fell off the floor. I went no, Marie 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:49.639 Elena Holly, Buddy Holly. The first record I ever bought 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:54.719 was Peggy Sue. I had two quarters. I went to Cabbage, 0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.760 just walked by myself. I've never been in a record store. 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:01.080 I walked in. Uh, hi, sir, I want to can 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:02.679 I buy? I want to buy get Peggy sup By. 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:04.840 Buddy Holley gives me the forty five. I gave him 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.680 my quarter, two quarters, and I had a little plastic 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:11.960 white record player and I played a thousand times then 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:16.080 didn't didn't, didn't pay. Suit changed my life. And here 0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:19.000 I am meeting Marie Helena Holley, who lived a fleet 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:21.600 blocks for me. They lived with a six months before 0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:24.639 Buddy died on Fifth Avenue in ninth Street in the village. 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.320 And I said, I mean, I love her. She's such 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:32.159 a sweetheart. She's in Dallas now and uh it was 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:33.680 an honor to meet her. And she said she want 0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:36.280 me to sign a CD. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, No, no, 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:39.200 no, no no, how about I get your autograph? She was 0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:41.360 so nice. I remember I saw her a couple of 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:43.880 years later in then I played. She signed with us, 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:47.000 you know, south By Southwest, so I'm there two years 0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:50.280 later and they have a had a Buddy Holly Educational 0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:54.160 Foundation party. I am an official ambassador to the Buddy 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:58.800 Holly Educational Fund Foundation, which I still can't believe. You know. 0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:00.600 It's like a who's who a rock and role, you know, 0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:04.280 like this Mick and Keith, you know, everybody you know. 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:05.680 And I got to get what's wrong with this picture? 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:07.400 Who's this little guy at the end of the line. 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:11.840 And Marie Lena said, I want willing to be an ambassador, 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.800 you know, And so I got a Buddy Holly guitar 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:16.880 with one of his frats on the inside for a 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.720 two year loan. Dion's got it now, I think, permanently. 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.360 And they gave me a really nice people. And I 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.840 said to Maria Elena we were having dinner in Nashville once. 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:28.760 I said, Marie Lena, you live a couple of blocks 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:30.960 some where I live now I've lived for fifty years. 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:33.360 What did you do for dinner? Where did you go? 0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:36.160 What did you and Buddy do? And she said, Buddy 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:41.280 loved New York. Buddy, would they live in the fourth 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:44.160 floor of this you know, I don't know how many 0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:48.480 fifteenth floor apartment building? Right on Fifth Avenue in Ninth Street. 0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:51.480 I walked back many a time. I give people tours 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.160 in my neighborhood and say, you know, Buddy Holly lived there. 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.120 She said. He used to stand on the balcony all 0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:59.120 the time and just in wonder, watching New York Goodbye. 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:01.920 She said he would take his acoustic guitar into Washington 0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:04.880 Square Park one block away and play it. He just 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:06.600 loved to play it. Kids would come up to him, 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.760 not knowing his Buddy Holly, and asked him about chords, 0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:11.360 and he would show him stuff. And so they said, 0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:14.720 when we get older, let's have an educational foundation for 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:18.280 teenagers kids who want to learn music. And so to 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:20.880 this day there's a Buddy Hall Educational Foundation, and I'm 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.760 I'm an ambassador anyway, asking Marie, oh, I said to 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.880 Marie Lena, I go, Marie Lena, did Buddy like Elvis? 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:30.560 Because like this, you're talking to the horse's mouth here. 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:33.880 You know, I love history and I love right and 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:37.080 you know I can ask her things that nobody else knows. 0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:40.040 Marie did he like Elvis? She goes, oh, he loved Elvis. 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.360 Elvis came to Let's you're talking love at Texas. You know, 0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:46.000 and she said, one day Alvis came to town. They 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.000 went to a movie together. He loved Elvis and they're 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:52.400 both kids basically. And I said, what about Little Richard? 0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:55.360 Did Buddy like I got a story for you? Did? 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.080 But did Buddy like little Richard? She was, Oh, boy, 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.880 he loved little Richard. One day he brought out. He 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:04.000 brought little Richard back to the house. This is Lumpock, Texas, 0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:06.800 the Deep South. And he comes to the front door 0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:10.280 with little Richard, this little tall black guy and his 0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:13.720 father comes to the door and he says, this, so 0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:16.520 and so is nut coming in this house. So Buddy 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:18.280 took himround in the backyard and they did they had 0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:19.960 a cook out or whatever. But he couldn't go in 0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:23.240 the house. So Buddy Holly had this is, I don't 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:25.600 know what you're Buddy died about fifty eight, so I 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:29.480 figured fifty seven eight he you know, and he married 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.440 a Puerto Rican woman. You know, Buddy Holly. I really 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.680 wonder what Buddy would have done like James Dean, you know, 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:38.800 people gone too soon. But Buddy Holly, yeah, I forget 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:40.920 how I got on that story about Buddy Holly. But uh, 0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:43.680 oh okay, But let's go back. So you're talking about 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.760 all the music and buying the record, etc. Were the 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:50.360 Beatles that they broke a big impact upon you? Oh 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:52.760 my god. Yeah. So I used to listen to the radio. 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:55.240 Gary Gary Us Bonds is a friend of mine. I 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:57.160 used to listen to the radio waiting to hear quarter 0:31:57.160 --> 0:32:00.320 to three. I transistor. I had a green, I'm kind 0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:02.960 of puke green transistor radio under my pillow and I 0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:04.360 go to bed at night and I turn it on. 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:08.240 I just put it to my ear and listen. I mean, 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:10.960 and it was magic. You heard these songs. I got 0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.480 to sing it with him with Springsteen at Chase Stadium 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.320 years later. I mean, it's so funny. I tell these stories. 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:18.280 You can't make this stuff up. So much of this 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:21.040 stuff is like that that really happened. Well yeah, and 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:23.440 it goes on and on. So I listened to the 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.200 radio all the time. I loved rock and roll. And 0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:30.080 you know I heard at school I saw I think 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:33.680 it was I'm and Steve Allen. One night there was 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:36.840 a clip about this sensation in the in England called 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.880 the Beatles. And I saw the clip and I went, wow, 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.120 that looks like fun So, yeah, I saw him out 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:44.920 as Sullivan and just changed my life, like so many 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:47.880 people of our generation to see. And the thing about 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:52.120 it was four guys like a gang, clearly drusted the same, 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.280 the way, the way they interacted each other. They they 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:57.600 were a little club, a little gang they had. They 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:02.640 were self sustainable. They were the joy. That's what amazes me. 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:05.600 You know. You and I could go to fifty fifty 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.640 different venues and see people play music and that could 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.480 be good, bad and ugly, yeah, like always, and then 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:12.920 if you walk in this other club and there's this 0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:16.280 guy's having the time of their life, just emanating joy, 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:22.360 emanating like you know, irony, sarcasm, passion. You know, it 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:24.760 was just to this day watch those clips that are 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.400 like the energy. That was something beautiful. I've been to 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:29.640 their boy I went to John Lennon's boyhood and Paul 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.239 McCartney's boyhood. Holme my private tours of those places, you know, 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:37.440 the curator and his wife, this great guy, Colin Hall. 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:43.680 I saw a National Geographic Hours show about the fixing 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:47.160 up of Mendips John Lennon's boyhood home and how they 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:50.320 tried to find a curator and Colin got it and 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:52.360 I get there this. A friend of mine was taking 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:53.920 us for a private tour, a few of us in 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.560 my band, and Colin comes to the gate and he's 0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:59.040 holding my first Vinyl LP. I thought, oh, we're in. 0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:02.200 He's a fan, and we had to I mean, I 0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:04.600 don't know if you've been there, Bob, but to go 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:06.960 to John's because like that. He took us for a 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.719 walking tour around what's it called Woolton, which is like 0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:13.839 seven houses down the little village where John they showed 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:15.440 the movie theater John used to go to where they 0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:20.600 show John Wayne movies, the graveyard where they got eleanor 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:23.359 Rigby's name on it. Wherever that came from, who knows, 0:34:23.360 --> 0:34:27.080 But we just it's like history coming to life. Fascinating 0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:30.600 and I forgot what question by the Beatles I mean 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:33.680 changed my life and to see them grow and to 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.640 see it was the same time like Dylan hit you know, 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:39.520 I think the first song on Dylan's I heard was 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:43.680 I Shall Be Free number ten. I'm just average, common too, 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.520 just like him, the same as you. I'm every buddy's 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:48.279 brother and son. I ain't different than anyone. And they 0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:49.759 used to talk to me it's just the same as 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:52.560 talking to you. And the next song was Chimes of 0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:56.319 Freedom and the dichotomy. The contrast was not lost on me. 0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:58.759 I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, Wait a minute, something's going 0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:01.759 on here. And at the same time you had these 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:05.480 four guys from Liverpool starting a real revolution, the combany 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.400 and everybody and the Stones give me a break. The 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:10.640 whole British invasion hit me like a wave. And as 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:14.600 a kid back then, as you know, Motown, Hello, Memphis, 0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:19.080 Stacks come on the wide Range. You had like Walter Brennan. 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:22.399 You had Jimmy Deane singing about whatever, and you had 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.560 rock and roll, you had Little Richard, you had all 0:35:24.600 --> 0:35:29.000 this great stuff, you know, a surf music. So the Beatles, 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:32.960 absolutely it was a major force that helped change my life. 0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:37.520 And I think a lot of reasons why, but the energy, 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:43.399 the purity. It was something wild, something innocent, something play 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:45.399 so much playful. I mean, look at the movie, look 0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:47.920 at Hard Day's Night. What a riot? Is there anybody 0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:51.840 around at all making music now with that kind of vibe? Maybe, 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:55.080 but it's it's that was pretty special and I loved it. 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.760 And then the Stones come, these the Stones, the rolling 0:35:57.840 --> 0:35:59.279 up these whatever the us to call them, and they 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.719 were so gray. I'm not gonna smile. You know, watch 0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:05.800 them on TV carrying on, Come my Satisfaction. Best song ever, 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:08.640 you know, I saw television and we'll talk about it 0:36:08.640 --> 0:36:12.279 in a minute. CBGB's I Got Stories and I'm so 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:15.560 sad about Tom Verlaine's passing. And one night I'm on 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:17.560 the side of the stage I went every time they played. 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:20.759 They would open for Patti Smith, and one night, all 0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:24.560 of a sudden, at his encore, Tom was Dad, Dad, 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.800 got what they're playing to it? Anyway? I love the Beatles. 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:32.160 To answer question, yeah, changed my life. Okay, what point 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.760 did you pick up a guitar and become a wannabe 0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:40.399 rock star? Um? I played eight years old. I took 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.680 classical piano, and my older brothers played. We always had 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:46.160 a piano in the house. We had a you know, 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:49.279 stereo like a you know, a piece of furniture. Mom 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.840 played classical music, big band music. My brothers play. My 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:56.040 uncle's one of my uncles, Uncle Ray, was an incredible 0:36:56.160 --> 0:37:00.600 ragtime player. Incredible. I mean, I've seen you know, the 0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:03.920 clips of famous ragtime players, and this guy played the 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:07.319 lightside of the piano. His father, my grandfather, took him 0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:10.200 to a piano the best piano teacher in Buffalo. And 0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:13.160 the guy said, to Ray, my uncle is. The teacher 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:15.520 said to Ray, Ray play something. And Ray we started 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:18.360 playing boogie woogie and Ray think, okay, that's enough, and 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:22.200 he said to his father, he said, you're wasting your money. 0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:25.000 He already knows too much. He played by side and 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:26.800 the guy, you know, so he didn't teach him. He 0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:29.959 taught his other brother, Rich, who was a fantastic piano player. 0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:31.719 But that was always music. So when I was eight 0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:35.760 years old and I loved music, I took piano, classical piano, 0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:38.720 but I also wanted to play the drums. I remember 0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:41.279 having a real angsty one fall. I go, I don't 0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:43.640 want to play the piano. I'll play the drums, and 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:45.920 they said, no, you got you can take both, but 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:47.799 you can't. You know, you gotta play the piano, which 0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:50.680 was I'm so grateful they did that. And I took 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:55.640 piano lessons until I was about sixteen. And uh, you 0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:57.279 know when you begin in high school and you're looking 0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:59.880 to party and chase girls and you know, play sports, 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:02.960 listen to rock and roll, sitting out the piano for 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:06.799 half an hour practice and nah, so I played the 0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:10.359 piano and I quit. And when I went away to college, um, 0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:13.319 I didn't play any guitar then. I never even thought 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:16.440 about being a musician. I was writing poetry in high school, 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:19.120 went to college and my room. I went one year 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:23.319 in Canton, Ohio, to Walsh College. I clowned around in 0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:25.680 high school, and when I tried to apply to colleges, 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:28.160 I couldn't get in. I was I was, you know, 0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:29.960 I had like eighty six average or something, and it 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:32.560 was like, oh, this is not looking good. And so 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:36.160 one day the guidance counselor said, well, there's a school 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.040 in Ohio that just built a dorm and they need 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.080 out of state students. You might want to apply there. 0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:44.200 So me and all the other losers from the northeast whatever. 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:48.759 And so that dormitory was full of wise guys, losers, 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:52.240 you name it, crazy's And my roommate, one of my roommates, 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:57.160 Denny Wentz from Pennsylvania, from Pittsburgh, had a guitar. And 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:00.320 it was boring. I mean, you're you're in three miles 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:03.839 north of Canton. It's flat, there's nothing, there's cows. There's 0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:07.640 a Hoover factory three miles down we're talking nothing. So 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.479 I said, well, can you teach me? And he goes, yeah, sure. 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:13.520 The funny thing but he was a writing and I 0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:16.280 threw things with both hands. But I was a lefty 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:19.399 guitar player, and I played pool left handed at bow 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:21.200 and arrow. If I shot a gun, it's left handed. 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:23.560 And I suspect when I was a kid, and I said, 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:26.240 put the pen in your right hand and start writing. 0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:28.439 At first grade, I can do things with both hands. 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:30.920 I'm a little bit of both. So I washed myself 0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:33.480 to learn to play the guitar right handed. And so 0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:35.920 I learned to play the guitar, just simple chords. My 0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:39.640 first song I learned was Love and Spoonful. God, I 0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:42.359 love Love and Spoonful. It was darling be home soon, 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:46.960 d G A easy and even an idiot like me 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.160 could do that. And I met John John Sebastian years 0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:53.319 later and told him, hey, I learned. He goes, my 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:55.160 wife plays your records at our dinner table. I go, 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:58.200 what get out of here? You know? Anyway? So I 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:01.160 learned to play guitar at school. And what that did 0:40:01.200 --> 0:40:04.360 for me because I was still writing poems. I just 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.720 stream of consciousness. I love the beat poets, just whatever 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:09.799 comes to mind. You know, there's no right and wrong, 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:13.279 there's no nobody looking over your shoulder. Oh that's not right. No, 0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:15.600 it's like you can write whatever you want. So I did. 0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:18.719 So I started putting songs together, and then all my 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:21.520 writing went into writing songs and just simple stuff. My 0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:25.240 stuff is quite simple. And I came home from Buffalo 0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:28.439 that Chris that that you know, that bread semester break. 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:30.799 I sat at the piano, which I hadn't played in 0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:33.600 a while, and I started playing chords on the piano, 0:40:34.080 --> 0:40:39.480 g E minor ce, the just chords, and I started 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:42.920 playing songs, and I stride like the left hand when 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.800 you like this, the left hand back and forth. My 0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:49.320 uncles did all that, so I taught my I re 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:51.799 taught myself to play the piano. And I could teach 0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:55.000 a kid now in ten minutes to play Twinkle Twinkle, 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:58.200 Little Star or jingle bells. Real simple, you know, it's 0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:02.279 easy chords. There's a guy anybody listening and wants to 0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:05.640 learn the piano for real. His name is Scott Houston, 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:09.960 and he's the PBS piano guy. I was in Sweden 0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:11.799 one time. I landed in Sweden and it was four 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:14.040 in the morning and I was wide awake. I'm watching 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:17.600 television and this guy comes on TV, you know, pitching 0:41:17.680 --> 0:41:20.120 his videos and stuff. And I watched him and I go, 0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:22.200 that's what I do. I just play chords so he 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.399 can teach adults. There's no end to when you can learn, 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.760 doesn't matter how old you are. My uncle John broad 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:32.720 RECUISO sergeant and the police force in Low Massachusetts, after 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:34.880 watching me play for half an hour one summer, said, oh, 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:37.280 I give anything to be able to play the piano. Well, 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.800 now had I known that back then? I go, you know, Juny, 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:44.000 this guy you don't need to read music. It's chords, 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:46.759 you know, and you can learn your favorite songs. And 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:50.280 it's easy. I'm telling you. If you google the piano 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.440 guy PBS Scott Houston, look at some of his videos, 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:55.839 and it's you can learn by the piano in no time. 0:41:56.400 --> 0:42:04.920 And I did that. I thought myself that style. Okay. 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:07.640 So you're going to school in Ohio. Then what happens 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:12.880 you end up switching from there to Buffalo. Yeah. I 0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.360 went to school in Ohio, and you know, it was 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:18.879 a time of experimentation. You know, drugs made their way 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:22.640 into our into our circle, you know, smoking weed took 0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:24.640 LSD a few times, but it was not it was 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:26.440 just no, it was nothing. You know, I go, I'm 0:42:26.480 --> 0:42:30.640 not feeling nothing, what about you now? Nothing? And it 0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:32.680 was it was just beyond boring. Although I will say 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.360 the silver lining there it was there were two great professors. 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:38.880 That was a great philosophy professor and a great English teacher. 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:41.640 You know, you get a great teacher who can open 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:45.319 up things to you, whether it's history or language. So 0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:49.640 I transferred. I got. You know, the night before final exams, 0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:53.719 we were growing our hair and it was a Catholic college, 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:56.600 and so the night before final exams we were called 0:42:56.600 --> 0:42:58.560 the Haystack Crew because of our hair, and we were 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:00.520 getting in trouble a lot. If you got to the 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:02.600 dorm after midnight, you had to do fifty push ups. 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:06.440 I mean, really, why don't we babies here? We basically 0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:10.440 were babies anyway, So the night before exams, the Prefective 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.560 Discipline calls us into his office. He goes, you can't 0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:15.520 take exams unless you get a haircut. And I said 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.759 to him, you're kidney right, this is united serious. Oh 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:23.200 I'm serious, brother, James, brother. We had to get our 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:25.719 hair cut. I mean really, it wasn't even nearly as 0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:29.120 long as this, and uh so I got, I got, 0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:31.719 you know, Dean's list, you know, and uh I did 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:34.320 good grades, and so I transferred University Buffalo Night School. 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.359 What a difference. People smoking in class, dressed the way 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.600 you want hair growing. Timothy Leary walking through that, it 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:43.840 was so fast. The University of Buffalo was a great 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:47.919 place in nineteen sixty seven, sixty eight, nine, seventy it 0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:50.720 was really seven. I think I went there from sixty 0:43:50.760 --> 0:43:55.440 seven to seventy one, something like that. Ginsburg, Gregory Carso 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:57.799 came to read. Oh was he good? I met him, 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.200 I met, I've been did a couple of gigs with 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:04.239 with Alan Ginsburg. Always fascinating. I saw all the great 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:07.000 poets come through you University of Buffalo. It was inspiring. 0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:11.120 Abby Hoffman and Jerry Rubin came. Many times. Abby would 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:13.800 go on stage, do a handstand, walking around on his hands, 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.760 and then talk revolution. It was just like fascinating times. 0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:22.399 Remember seeing Timothy Leary walking through the student center out 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:23.719 of his mind. He was just looking up at the 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:26.880 going oh oh yeah, staring at the ceiling. He spoke 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:29.840 that night, but he didn't say two words. It was 0:44:29.880 --> 0:44:33.240 just a fascinating time of change. And there were marches, 0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:36.319 there was protests. I got gassed one day. They were 0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:40.040 marching on one side of the campus and they tear 0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:43.400 gassed everybody. And these poor people across the campus waiting 0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:46.480 for bus home from work. You know, they weren't doing 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:50.480 nothing and they're getting gassed, you know. And anyway, I thought, Wow, 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.440 crazy world. So I went to University of Buffalo, graduated 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:56.560 with a philosophy degree. I just took classes that I liked. 0:44:57.000 --> 0:44:58.760 So how did you end up moving to the city, 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.600 and what was the plan I graduated? I went in 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:03.760 my senior year, I went to see my guidance counselor 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:05.960 for the first time. I had no plan. Now, when 0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:08.719 kids go to school smartly, so they go, well, I'm 0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:10.880 going to become an engineer, I'm gonna be a doctor, 0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:14.719 I'm gonna be a whatever, and you take courses. I 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:17.560 just took what I liked. Philosophy of art and beauty. 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:21.200 I took that. It was lousy, you know, Walt Whitman, 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:24.040 you know, the beat poets. So in my senior year, 0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:25.920 I went to my I got good grades. It was 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:29.399 easy for me you know. I just came easily four 0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:34.440 point er a couple of times, and classical quik mythology fascinating. 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:38.160 And I thought, well, I had all these songs, and 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:41.640 I thought, well, these songs aren't bad. They're not much 0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:43.359 worse than anything i'm hear on the radio. I'm gonna 0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:45.120 go to New York. So I said to George Boger, 0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:47.879 my philosophy teacher, my guidance counselor how am I doing? 0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.080 He goes, You're doing really good. You got a three 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:54.799 point five average and you're a philosophy major. And I thought, oh, philosophy. 0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:56.800 Well that sounds heavy. What can I do with the 0:45:56.800 --> 0:46:00.720 philosophy degree? He goes, you can go to graduate school. 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:02.960 I went, no, no, no, no, I'm out. I'm going 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:05.600 to New York City to make records, thanks George. Which 0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:09.799 I graduated, you know, And I went down to New York, 0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:12.839 got an apartment, got married, moved to New York and 0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:16.600 got a little apartment. When the village just stopped, stopped 0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:19.080 for a second. How many times have you been married? 0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:22.880 I've been married twice. I got married in seventy two, 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:25.600 moved to New York the day after we got married, 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:28.360 and lived in New York. I've been there fifty years 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:33.839 right now, and same apartment. And I got married two 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:38.920 years ago October in Italy and the Italian Alps. I metam. 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.640 I got divorced the ninety one and while touring, I've 0:46:43.680 --> 0:46:45.319 been to Italy a lot. I've been to Europe a 0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:49.360 lot over the year's touring. And one time, the promoter 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:53.400 in Italy was almost thirteen years ago. Hired a photographer 0:46:53.400 --> 0:46:57.040 to come shoot me Christina, and we started. We hit 0:46:57.080 --> 0:46:58.920 it off right away, you know, And it was the 0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:02.400 year that the volcano in Iceland was stopping all flights, 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.600 so we did some shows. All of a sudden volcano 0:47:06.640 --> 0:47:08.680 happens and I couldn't get me or my band back 0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:11.000 to the States. So they're on my dime and I'm 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.040 not making big money. I'm not a big rock star. 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.240 I never was this then, it was never my plan anyway. 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:21.160 So I ended up my UH road manager called Christina. 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:23.400 We met, we had we just met that night. We 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:25.640 just really hit it off, and she wonder why I 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.160 went mine. But a few days later my road manager 0:47:28.200 --> 0:47:30.799 calls her up and said, you know, we're trying to 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.480 find places for Willie and his band can wham state 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:36.560 at your place. She goes, yeah, I'll take Willie. I 0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:38.920 went there and it's spend ever since, you know, or 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:42.239 just really I got really lucky, you know, and we 0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:44.920 we got married. We were apart for six months in Covid, 0:47:45.560 --> 0:47:47.840 you know, we couldn't get in each other's country, and 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:51.040 we finally met in Edinburgh, Scotland at a friends because 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:53.960 we a friend's house, dear friend Jonas, so we could 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:56.920 see each other. And she said, you know, they just 0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:00.000 changed the laws in Italy for long term relationship can 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:03.000 get in. And she said, if we were married, we 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:05.239 could get in each other. Like, let's do it. I'm 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:06.919 not I'm not moving, I'm in love with you. Let's 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:09.320 do it. So we got married in a small town 0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:14.200 in the Italian Alps, at this little city hall, it's 0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:17.279 like a medieval building, fifty yards from a waterfall. Da 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:21.000 Vinci drew in the fifteen hundreds. She decided she wants 0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:23.120 to ride a horse. It's a beautiful fall to day 0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:26.280 as fifteen people. This is twenty twenty October, the middle 0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:30.120 of Covid, you know, and like fifteen people, her male person, 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:32.400 the male woman came. It was just she was our 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:36.400 one of our witnesses in front of the the a 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.319 notary public. It's just you can't make this up. So 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:42.080 she so she gets she's had a horse. She rides 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:44.640 a horse onto the property and I said to her, after, 0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:46.120 why did you want to? Why did you ride a horse? 0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:47.440 When was the last time you rode a horse? He 0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:49.880 goes that was five? I got, well, why did you 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:52.480 want to? She's a very independent woman and one of 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:56.320 the great photographers in the world. Jackson Brown fleor to 0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:59.160 uh Scotland to shoot him. You know, he hasn't let 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:02.920 photogot photographer is on stage. But she's great, all the 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:07.279 album covers since twenty thirteen American Ride. She shot. Just 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:09.960 a brilliant photographer. And we've been We've had a great 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:12.520 thing going. I'm very lucky. Okay, So why did the 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:16.359 first marriage break up? I think in the long run 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:19.839 it was the hardship. You know, we were married for 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.280 eighteen years together, twenty three. We were like sixteen and fourteen. 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:27.479 We were childhood sweethearts, great woman, you know, dear dear woman, 0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:31.120 love he her pieces, you know, and I think that 0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:34.480 I would say over the years, you know, like I 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:38.279 got mono nucleosis, and I think seventy four whatever something. Now, 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:40.799 Luke was born in seventy three. We moved on seventy two, 0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:44.160 and I was writing songs at night, working in a 0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:46.960 mail room during the day, and I was, you know, 0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:50.480 working too hard. And I got a really wicked case 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:53.799 of hYP pneumonia that winter, and I had to go 0:49:53.800 --> 0:49:56.040 back to New York get a job because my son 0:49:56.160 --> 0:49:58.759 was about to be born. Love story short. I got 0:49:58.760 --> 0:50:01.719 a really bad case of mono, like eight months in bed. 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:05.880 It's probably upstein Bar back then. And it was a 0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:09.160 struggle for years, you know. And I think that the 0:50:09.320 --> 0:50:12.440 struggle and she was she stuck with me all those years. 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:15.160 I would say to her, No, woman would be staying 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.279 with me all these years? Are you crazy? You know, 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:20.560 I go, she goes, No. She hung in there so long, 0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:23.200 and I think it just took its toll, you know. 0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:25.879 And and there was medical issues at her end where 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:28.600 she thought she might be on the way out, you know, 0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:30.759 and that caused like a fight and flight whatever. But 0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:33.279 we had a great run, you know, And it was 0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:36.880 a difficult break up. But I love her dearly, you know, 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:40.640 and she's a great grandmother, dear friend, and and you know, 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:43.920 I met Christina and Italy and I basically married Italy. 0:50:44.760 --> 0:50:48.080 How how many kids do you have? I have four children, 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:52.600 four great children, you know, Luke, Josephine, Mary and Bob. 0:50:53.280 --> 0:50:56.960 They're great. We're all close, you know, given my parents 0:50:57.080 --> 0:51:01.200 close relationship, and they're always encouraging family. It's about family, 0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:02.880 you know, take care of each other. You know. We 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.399 grew up with that, and to this date, the whole 0:51:05.400 --> 0:51:07.640 family goes on vacation on the coast of New Hampshire. 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:10.640 One hundred and five, we ran a bunch of beach houses, 0:51:10.680 --> 0:51:13.080 you know, and one hundred and five people. We used 0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:14.640 to all go to one house for dinner. But once 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.839 it got over it eighty five people couldn't do one house. 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:21.239 So the last few years it's been it's glorious. It's 0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:26.040 just a really close family. And yeah, and I have 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.160 four children, have four grandchildren who I'm crazy about. My 0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:32.759 sister and Nancy said to me when Jason was born, 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:37.680 he's no Lilian. Lilian's fourteen now, she said, that's a secret. 0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:40.960 Witting down the road, you know, grandchildren now, granted, kids 0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:42.880 can be a nightmare, you know. It's the people who 0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:45.480 don't have children. It's some people have a rough time. 0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:48.399 Sometimes it's not always easy, you know, And when it's 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:51.160 when it's good, it's really good. And I've been blessed, 0:51:51.200 --> 0:51:54.000 four kids, four grandchildren. I'm on the moon. I'm lucky. 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:56.040 To dude, I've been. I must be still dreaming, Bob. 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:57.479 It must be that I must have taken some at 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:00.520 the LSD must have kicked in in nineteen sixties. I'm 0:52:00.520 --> 0:52:05.640 still dreaming. Okay. You talk about the struggle. Did the 0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:09.360 struggle ever stop or you still struggle? You what kept 0:52:09.400 --> 0:52:15.000 you going? Well? I think I don't. I didn't didn't 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:16.840 know what else to do. But I'm so driven. I 0:52:17.280 --> 0:52:20.560 so love what I do. I get to express myself 0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:24.320 in words and music. At still, the fire still burns 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.239 in me big time when I play the original songs 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:30.080 back from nineteen eighty. I still plan with the same 0:52:30.440 --> 0:52:33.600 passion and vigor. I think I'm too dumb to know better. 0:52:33.640 --> 0:52:35.960 That's probably the first answer to I don't know what 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:38.480 what else would I do? You know, I could be 0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:41.040 a delivery man, I could you know, Liverpool point A 0:52:41.160 --> 0:52:43.880 to point B. But I kept writing songs that I 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:47.080 believed in. I thought this doesn't suck, you know. I 0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:49.800 remember I was in Buffalo. I walked away my music business. 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:52.520 I made two records on ariston. I got signed. That's 0:52:52.560 --> 0:52:55.160 another story about getting signed by Robert Palmer saw me 0:52:55.200 --> 0:53:00.239 play at Kenny's Castaways on Bleaker Street nineteen seven eight 0:53:00.360 --> 0:53:05.239 July twenty ninth, and he wrote an incredible review. I 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:08.520 was the opening act, you know. And Don Hill, who 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:11.280 was a manager at the time, great club owner for years. 0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:15.200 It's gone now and miss him. Robert Palmer, great New 0:53:15.280 --> 0:53:17.920 York Times reviewer, was coming called and some I'm a 0:53:17.960 --> 0:53:20.120 coming to see the headliner. And Don said to him, 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:22.480 I didn't know about any of this till later. You 0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:24.200 might want to come early to see the opening act. 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:27.799 He's real good. So Robert came early and wrote this 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:32.919 incredible review. You know, it's like if if my mom 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:35.279 sat down to write a review about how Sweller Kid was. 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:37.840 It just was a really great review, you know, compared 0:53:37.880 --> 0:53:40.239 me to Buddy Holly, Bob Dylan, whatever, and it was 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.319 really and that guy means I'll tell you what. I 0:53:42.400 --> 0:53:45.399 learned a major lesson with that because I knew people 0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:48.080 in the village for years, you know, and I was 0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:50.080 opening shows. It was six nights a week, you'd played 0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:54.640 Kenny's Castaways in two sets, and I get written up 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:57.520 in New York Times, and you know, this guy's declaring me, 0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:02.879 you know something special. And I liked what I did. 0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:05.080 But I never never went to my head, not a minute. 0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.640 All that great press that first record got. I knew 0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.600 that it was just whatever. Anyway, that night when I 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:13.360 when a paper came out that day, when I walked 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:16.919 into Kenny's Castaways, you could barely get in. People hanging 0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:20.000 off the balcony areas areas. You know, people that knew 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:23.080 me for years looked at me completely different. Something about 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:25.560 being in writing gives it a certain kind of validation 0:54:25.680 --> 0:54:28.920 that the music on that song might not. And so 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:32.200 I was on stage and I did my set. I 0:54:32.200 --> 0:54:34.279 didn't know Robert was in the audience at night, and 0:54:34.440 --> 0:54:37.680 I was introduced to him later. And I'm on stage 0:54:37.760 --> 0:54:40.440 doing my thing, planning my song, was introducing the maginary 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:45.040 on drums tonight We've got William Shakespeare whatever. And I'm 0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:47.640 jumping off the stage, telling stories, carrying on, having a 0:54:47.640 --> 0:54:52.600 good time, having fun with it, you know. And before 0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:54.480 I got off the stage that night, this guy comes up, 0:54:54.560 --> 0:54:56.880 steps up because Hi, I'm Paul Rothschild, I managed the 0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:59.160 doors or whatever. I want to talk. I want to 0:54:59.200 --> 0:55:01.839 work with you. And it was that Clive Davis came 0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:05.279 out different record labels. The coolest thing for me that 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:08.680 night was that Clive Davis wasn't like the fourth table 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:11.520 and behind him was Luck sin Terrior and Ivy Roorschok 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:14.480 at the Cramps who who I knew? The Cramps at 0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:16.359 Clive Dave are like, oh this, you can't make this up. 0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:19.160 It was so cool. And four days later on Clive's 0:55:19.160 --> 0:55:20.880 office doing a show and tell in his office in 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:24.840 front of forty five whenever the top people on the label, 0:55:24.880 --> 0:55:27.640 and you know that that was terrible. The sound in 0:55:27.680 --> 0:55:29.560 the room was dead. But I did it and I 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:34.799 got signed that day. Okay, you know Clive, he's got 0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:39.640 his self promotion machine going, but a lot of artists 0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:43.520 complained that he meddles with the music. How was your experience? 0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:47.560 I was very lucky. Um well I was. You know 0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:49.799 when I when I told him what eleven songs I 0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:53.080 wanted to put on the record, you know, he so 0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.400 this is great. I played when I played Across the 0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:57.840 River on the piano, a song I wrote about the 0:55:57.880 --> 0:56:03.560 people starving in Ethiopian Chad and seventy eight. He thought 0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:06.040 that was our hit, you know, so I went in. 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:10.040 I made the record, no interference whatsoever. The next year 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:12.600 I made and that year I was at the label 0:56:12.840 --> 0:56:16.040 in this early spring, and my A and R guys said, 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:20.120 product manager said, oh, I hear Pete Townsen loves your record. 0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:22.719 I mean, well, these great reviews were coming in, you know, 0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:27.960 like that's great, you know, I mean I was insulated 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:31.520 enough as a guy who wrote poetry and libraries and 0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:34.640 college and just wrote his heart out. I was writing 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:36.600 for that. I was just trying to express myself, not 0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:40.480 trying to prove anything, convince anybody, how swallow. It was 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:42.719 none of that. I was just expressing myself. And I 0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:44.439 can call up by the chorus, make a song out 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:48.760 of it, you know, entertain So all the great press, 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.520 I was grateful because I was just hoping after such 0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:54.200 a struggle, and I was you know, I was broke 0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:57.680 for years, and I thought, well, maybe this could help 0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:00.239 change things, you know, And when I heard Pete towns 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:01.920 and loves your record, I just thought, oh yeah, I 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:04.480 didn't believe it. I thought, yeah, sure he does. And 0:57:04.480 --> 0:57:07.200 then we took the last tour. We did that that 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:09.880 uh for that. The last show we did was in La, 0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:15.800 Los Angeles at the Roxy in nineteen eighty and uh, 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:18.120 we just they just did it. Look the records over, 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:19.560 but we're going to have you go out and play 0:57:19.560 --> 0:57:22.240 in LA just because you know, it's for the it's 0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:24.760 for the cameras. I didn't care. I'll go. Let's go. 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:27.240 I'd like to go. I've never played in LA and 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:30.760 went there played the Roxy. Freddie Mercury came to the show. 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:35.720 Graham Parker came out and unbeknownst to me, Bill Kurbishly 0:57:35.760 --> 0:57:38.560 from the Who in a bunch of the whose management 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:43.240 were there, came backstage and you know, he came up 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:45.480 to me and said, how well much you liked the performance? 0:57:45.480 --> 0:57:47.320 And he said, you know, we're on tour and out 0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:50.760 turn across the US, and we'd love to have you 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:53.160 opened the tour. I mean, I think the Pretty Things 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:55.560 were already opening. They did eight shows in the West Coast. 0:57:56.520 --> 0:57:58.000 And I thought he was kid and I just laughed, 0:57:58.000 --> 0:57:59.560 oh yeah, And then I thought, well, wait a minute, 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:02.000 he means it. You know, I go. I'd love to assure. 0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:06.320 Let me call Clive, you know, And so I got 0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:09.200 word from the label that they weren't going to support it, 0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:12.600 the reason being I was driven around LA in a 0:58:12.640 --> 0:58:16.800 fancy car and fancy streets, explaining, look, when Bruce Springsteen 0:58:16.880 --> 0:58:20.560 played opened up for Chicago at the Garden, they booed. 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:22.160 They didn't know he was and it left a bead 0:58:22.200 --> 0:58:23.800 taste in his mouth. We didn't want that to happen 0:58:23.840 --> 0:58:25.360 to you. I figured, well, whatever, you're not going to 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:28.000 support it, I can't. What am I going to do? 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:30.440 So I went backed up Bill Kurbishly and this is Bill, 0:58:30.480 --> 0:58:33.000 they won't I can't do it, and he says, what 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:35.080 do you need? Have your tour manager make up a budget, 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.400 and you know that's seven. Got five guys in the band, 0:58:38.600 --> 0:58:43.520 a roady and a road manager. Flights, pay, hotels, cars, meals, 0:58:44.440 --> 0:58:46.880 They paid the WHO paid for everything, you know, and 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.640 I toured. I went across the United States. It was 0:58:49.760 --> 0:58:52.160 time of you know, you couldn't make that up. And 0:58:52.240 --> 0:58:53.920 I'm friends with the WHO to this day, you know. 0:58:53.960 --> 0:58:57.240 So we toured across the US. I made another album 0:58:57.400 --> 0:59:02.520 next year, and we've gotten a legal problems former manager lawyer, 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:05.880 and I thought when it became more about business than music, 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:08.880 I just came home one day, I was I was 0:59:08.880 --> 0:59:12.960 going to arbitration in the morning, playing at night. It 0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:15.400 was such a bad taste in my mouth. You know, 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:18.120 I got in this for I wanted to have to 0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:20.960 be a joyful thing. And obviously I'm not. I'm a 0:59:21.000 --> 0:59:24.040 bit of an idiot. But they're killing my buzz. I 0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:26.360 said to my wife, let's get out of here. They're 0:59:26.440 --> 0:59:28.360 killing my buzz for music. I didn't want that, so 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:31.200 we moved back to Buffalo. Not the smartest thing to 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:34.760 do a little a little bit slower. What was the 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:46.240 legal issue specifically, Well, uh, there was complaints coming from 0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:49.120 the number two guy at Arista call me on the 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:52.480 phone and said, you know, this record not going to 0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:59.040 come out at the moment because your representation is not 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:05.000 to par. And so it was problems with the management 1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:09.800 and a lawyer, and uh, you know, I tried to settle. 1:00:09.840 --> 1:00:12.320 I said, look, you know, I don't want to hurt you. 1:00:12.320 --> 1:00:15.680 You know, Uh, you could stay part of the team, 1:00:15.680 --> 1:00:18.320 but let's let's bring in somebody who could help make 1:00:18.360 --> 1:00:21.160 the most of this. You know, I love you. You're 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:24.360 trying to help me, but you're I'm I'm getting told 1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:26.640 that you're you know that I might not put the 1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:31.080 record out. So long story short. Um, I had to 1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:34.520 fire a couple of people, you know, and it wasn't 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:36.600 any fun. I didn't get in this business to fire people. 1:00:36.680 --> 1:00:39.880 That's that's hurtful to me, you know. I don't want 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:42.600 to do that anyway. And I back at a family, 1:00:42.640 --> 1:00:44.520 had two I had three kids at the time and 1:00:44.600 --> 1:00:48.520 another one to come in, you know. And and the money, 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:53.320 whatever money we got, was twinland. And so we walked 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:54.960 away from the I walked back from a business and 1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:58.240 lived in the you know, Siberia Buffalo snow. But I 1:00:58.320 --> 1:01:00.880 kept writing songs, you know, just that's what I do. 1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:03.280 I write the right songs. I'd expressed myself. Wait wait, wait, 1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:07.920 wait a little bit slower. The second record does come out. Sure, 1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:11.480 Golden Down came out right. And then after the second 1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.080 record comes out, what is Darris to say? Are they 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:16.720 willing to make another record or they're saying, hey, we 1:01:16.800 --> 1:01:20.439 don't like this or we don't like that. Well, no, 1:01:20.480 --> 1:01:26.520 they were, they were willing. But um, let me think, 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:33.720 scratch my memory. Um, it wasn't. It wasn't them that 1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:36.160 I had. Clive was always good to me, I must say, 1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:38.680 you know, two albums. Second album, same thing, by the way, 1:01:38.680 --> 1:01:42.440 to answer your question, never meddled. I played that whatever 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:44.240 how many songs are on that rec panim for Clive? 1:01:44.280 --> 1:01:48.400 He goes, great, good. You know Mark Knopfler back then, 1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:53.160 God bless him. Jimmy Ivin called me one day, Hey, Willie, Yeah, 1:01:53.200 --> 1:01:55.800 I'm in a power station with Mark Knaffler. It must 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:59.160 to meet you. Come on down. So, you know, up, 1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:01.720 I go to the power the power station in New York. 1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:04.840 Mark's in the back of the studio barefeet doing the 1:02:04.880 --> 1:02:09.000 solo for Tunnel of Love. You know, just a magical moment. 1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:13.000 And Mark we hung out talking. He said, what do 1:02:13.040 --> 1:02:14.640 you what are you doing? I'm looking for a producer, 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:18.120 He said, I'd love to do that, you know, and 1:02:18.200 --> 1:02:20.440 I go, oh, I'll tough live. You know. But the 1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:22.400 time when I told Clive, he said, well, what's he done? 1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:24.720 You know, he had produced. He didn't have a name 1:02:24.760 --> 1:02:27.440 then as a producer. Who was the nineteen eighty eighty 1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:29.840 I made that album. I was in the studio and 1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:32.400 night John Lennon was killed in the same studio, and 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:36.320 that's another story. But so you know, Mark had not 1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:41.840 enough credibility, so I ended up Tompizi and I co 1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.520 produced it with Jimmy Iveen executive producing it. You know, 1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:47.440 I love the way because the night sounded, you know. 1:02:47.600 --> 1:02:56.439 I mean, who didn't like that record? So you put 1:02:56.480 --> 1:03:00.960 the second? Second record comes out? Yeah, told me about 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:03.200 going back to Buffalo because you have to earn a 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:07.960 living too. I had some money saved up. I just 1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.360 was like impulsive, and I said, they're killing my buzz. 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:15.400 I'm getting out of here. And oh you know, Um 1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:24.000 I had new management who a really good guy, Fret 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:29.560 Kuley's going now and UH and Bert Block who started ICM, 1:03:29.600 --> 1:03:36.560 and Uh, I got out of my record company. I went, 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:39.600 I have a filed bankruptcy, you know, and got out 1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:42.640 of my ars to contract. You know, it's a long story. 1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:50.120 And UH signed with Geffen for ten minutes. I made 1:03:50.120 --> 1:03:52.760 some demos from Buffalo. They didn't like him, drop me. 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:56.840 You know. So I had some money saved and uh, 1:03:57.160 --> 1:03:59.040 it just I thought I was already I had already. 1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:01.200 It was a on that I forget the timing. I 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:02.920 walked away somewhere and then I got you know what 1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:06.160 I didn't this is this is turning into a business nightmare. 1:04:07.040 --> 1:04:09.440 What fun is that? That's not. That's not like listening 1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:11.480 to the Beatles on that sold. And that's not like 1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:14.280 hearing Bob Dylan saying like a rolling stone, driving around 1:04:14.320 --> 1:04:16.240 with your buddies, hanging out the window, yelling at people. 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:19.520 I mean, it wasn't any fun. So I thought, to 1:04:19.600 --> 1:04:22.520 hell with this business. And then two years later, living 1:04:22.560 --> 1:04:25.040 up in Buffalo, I had all these songs, so trying 1:04:25.080 --> 1:04:28.200 I couldn't get arrested. I made phone calls calling people up, Hey, 1:04:28.240 --> 1:04:30.600 I got some songs, couldn't get couldn't get a phone 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:32.840 called answered. You know, you know it better than I do. 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:36.120 You've seen them much more of the business, and it's like, well, 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:37.960 you know, they dropped it like a hot potato, and 1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:40.040 I don't. I never had. When I first moved to 1:04:40.120 --> 1:04:42.840 New York, I saw so many musicians with chips on 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.880 their shoulder. Another reason I changed my name. I don't 1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:47.800 want to be like that. You know, to this day, 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:51.600 I don't have any hard feelings none. You know, nothing's 1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:54.400 handed to you on a platter. Oh yeah, you're good, 1:04:54.720 --> 1:04:57.439 we like your hair. Here's a lot of money. Don't 1:04:57.480 --> 1:04:59.280 worry about the rest of your life. It doesn't work 1:04:59.320 --> 1:05:02.400 that way, you know. And so I was realistic enough 1:05:02.440 --> 1:05:05.000 to know, you know that dozen things don't always work out. 1:05:05.680 --> 1:05:07.160 And there was a lot of good people who tried 1:05:07.160 --> 1:05:10.160 to help me for real, tried hard, believed in it, 1:05:11.520 --> 1:05:15.120 but I couldn't get arrested, and I stopped touring. I 1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:17.200 think the last show I did was in eighty one, 1:05:17.800 --> 1:05:22.040 and uh then tour again and eighty seven. So anyway, 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:24.920 during that period, I read out of money, brought a 1:05:24.920 --> 1:05:29.800 bunch of money and worked in a post office briefly. 1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:33.040 I was too inept, couldn't cut it. You know, it 1:05:33.120 --> 1:05:35.439 was a lousy postman. You know. I'd be delivered mail 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:37.080 at four or thirty, people coming up to me and 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:40.640 I under rote, where's my mail? Where's my check? And 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:46.360 I didn't last and I got a publishing deal in 1:05:46.520 --> 1:05:50.320 eighty seven that really helped a few years. And then 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:53.280 in eighty seven I went to maybe it was eighty 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:55.880 five I went to I got a phone call one 1:05:55.960 --> 1:06:01.960 day from a promoter in Oslo who said Greg Trooper 1:06:02.280 --> 1:06:05.560 was touring here, and he said he knows you, and 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.920 there was a famous writer there. His name might come 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:12.520 to me in a minute. He was like the godfather 1:06:12.600 --> 1:06:19.440 of writers in Norway. I hope it comes to me anyway. 1:06:19.760 --> 1:06:22.400 He died in some kind of a car accident coming 1:06:22.400 --> 1:06:24.960 back from on a Sunday visiting of the magazine Whatever. 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:27.400 Really good guy championed me big time. So I get 1:06:27.400 --> 1:06:29.280 this phone call. They're doing a benefit for his wife 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:32.080 and kids. Would I come over and play? And I 1:06:32.120 --> 1:06:36.040 hadn't played since you know eighty one The Greg Trooper's 1:06:36.080 --> 1:06:39.080 Band will back You. Larry Campbell, a Bob Dylan's guitarist, 1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:41.720 was in the band. I knew all those guys. God 1:06:41.720 --> 1:06:44.880 bless Gregg. He's gone now. Great guy, a little talented cat. 1:06:45.640 --> 1:06:47.919 So I went to Oslo and did a twenty five 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:53.120 minute set that was filmed, and I carried on like 1:06:53.160 --> 1:06:55.200 I usually do, had a good time, and I got that. 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:58.560 I took that film to Rick Chardoff at Columbia Records 1:06:59.280 --> 1:07:02.680 in eighty seven and eighty eight. Eighty seven, I guess 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:06.440 at the end of the year, and I had just 1:07:06.480 --> 1:07:09.920 written a song called Renegades, and I played it for 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:13.520 him and he didn't tell me at the time, but 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:15.680 that's all he needed to hear, and then he saw it. 1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:17.960 He was at arrist in nineteen seventy eight and wanted 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.920 to produce my first record, but he had not he 1:07:20.960 --> 1:07:23.720 didn't have enough credibility. I didn't know what he could do. 1:07:24.160 --> 1:07:25.560 And by then he had had a lot of hits. 1:07:25.560 --> 1:07:27.560 And a good guy, good dear friend, signed me to 1:07:27.560 --> 1:07:31.200 Columbia for peanuts. You have no idea how a little 1:07:31.240 --> 1:07:32.560 bunch of money I got. I got a family of 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:36.520 four with a wife, you know, and anyway, they took 1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:38.480 a chance on me, which I'm very grateful for. And 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:40.520 I made a record. I love like places places I've 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:43.200 never been. You know, Roger mcgwins on that record. Richard 1:07:43.240 --> 1:07:47.320 Thompson's on that record. Tebone Woke co produced it. You know. 1:07:48.000 --> 1:07:51.920 Two guys from McCartney's band, Wicks, the keyboard player Robbie 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:56.240 McIntosh Stewart Smith. I mean he's with the Eagles, but 1:07:56.280 --> 1:07:58.880 he played. I was so blessed with some of the musicians. 1:07:58.920 --> 1:08:03.040 I've always been lucky that way, and made that record 1:08:03.080 --> 1:08:05.640 and that you know, it turned out to be a 1:08:05.640 --> 1:08:08.440 wrong time, wrong place. You know, the business, Sometimes it's 1:08:08.520 --> 1:08:11.520 right time, sometimes it's a wrong time. Won that record fight. 1:08:11.560 --> 1:08:14.200 It took two years to get it made because Rick 1:08:14.360 --> 1:08:17.160 was appointed head of an R and they didn't want 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:19.439 it in the studio. We were looking for a producer. Now, 1:08:19.439 --> 1:08:21.519 I waited for two years while I finished a Patty 1:08:21.600 --> 1:08:25.439 Smith Smith's record and our Hooters record Tommy Conwell, And 1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:28.120 when it came time, no, We've done six months searching 1:08:28.200 --> 1:08:30.400 for a producer. By the time it came out, he 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:32.439 was on the way out of Columbia. So it was 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:35.240 just my champion there was was not able to help. 1:08:35.400 --> 1:08:37.040 Had it been a year earlier, he could have pushed 1:08:37.040 --> 1:08:38.759 the buttons. I could have opened up for Tom Petty 1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:40.920 and blah blah. But at the time, I was just 1:08:42.320 --> 1:08:45.400 genuinely grateful that I got to make that record. You know, 1:08:45.960 --> 1:08:47.920 it's the music that I care about. You know, I'm 1:08:47.960 --> 1:08:50.080 not the smartest cat on the planet. I loved the 1:08:50.200 --> 1:08:53.360 record and I go, well, too bad, bad luck, bad 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:55.799 timing for me, and so I was back out again, 1:08:55.920 --> 1:08:57.800 you know, out of the you know done. You know, 1:08:58.200 --> 1:09:00.240 Ron Fierstein was managing me at the time. Time, and 1:09:01.800 --> 1:09:04.600 you know, there's right time and right place. But I 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:07.120 kept writing. I've always been written. I'll do that. If 1:09:07.120 --> 1:09:09.040 I was a plumber new in Alaska, I would still 1:09:09.040 --> 1:09:12.040 write songs. That's what I do. You know, it's meaningful 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:14.200 to me. You know, what do you do in your life. 1:09:14.200 --> 1:09:16.160 It's meaningful. Some people coming to watch the sun and 1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:19.800 chant home. Some people shoot guns at a gun range 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:21.560 and imagine them in their teachers. I don't know, but 1:09:21.880 --> 1:09:26.000 I like the right songs. And I've been blessed looking back, 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:28.120 and there's more than a million stars I can tell 1:09:28.160 --> 1:09:30.160 you, you you know. The first day I went to see 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:33.160 BGBS before television, played before it became the punk me 1:09:33.240 --> 1:09:38.240 Guy played there, and through the hard times in the seventies, 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:40.719 the hard times, because you earlier it asked about the struggle. 1:09:41.800 --> 1:09:44.439 The hard times in the eighties, very hard, you know, 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:46.600 trying to kids go to go to school in September, 1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:50.080 needing to new shoes, they need new clothes, they need books, 1:09:50.920 --> 1:09:54.400 you know, and the money's like running out. A lot 1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:57.800 of a lot of a lot of years like that. 1:09:57.880 --> 1:10:01.080 But got through it, you know, and persisted. I was 1:10:01.120 --> 1:10:04.960 never very good at making a living, and just stayed 1:10:04.960 --> 1:10:07.599 with it, you know, made the Columbia Record. A year 1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:09.439 later there was an election and I had a song 1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:12.000 called hard Times in America. So I put a little 1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:14.000 ep out because I wanted to get the song out, 1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.840 you know, and small label didn't didn't make a ripple, 1:10:17.880 --> 1:10:21.680 and you know, remember Friday Morning Quarterback. I don't know 1:10:21.720 --> 1:10:26.360 if it's still around, but on ninety one, yeah, I 1:10:26.400 --> 1:10:28.720 was on the cover of that in the February of 1:10:28.800 --> 1:10:32.439 ninety one. You know, God bless Paul Hine. And you know, 1:10:32.640 --> 1:10:35.639 sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't. I'm not feeling 1:10:35.640 --> 1:10:38.840 that I'm old or anything, you know, but I must 1:10:38.880 --> 1:10:41.679 say my father said this when I first started out, 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.120 when I moved to New York struggling. He said, you know, 1:10:45.439 --> 1:10:49.160 enjoy these Enjoy this hard climb, which says, because if 1:10:49.200 --> 1:10:52.240 you become successful, it'll just taste all the sweeter. Well, 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:54.439 I never gave up. You know, there's a there's a 1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:56.800 guy making a documentary about me now, and I met 1:10:56.880 --> 1:10:59.000 him to say, no, I didn't know it was guy 1:10:59.000 --> 1:11:01.400 wants to make a movie about you. We've been doing 1:11:01.400 --> 1:11:04.960 it five years now, on and off. So I spent 1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:10.719 forty five years, you know, struggling, trying to have quality, 1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:15.600 the highest quality, trying to make masterpieces, you know, and 1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:18.160 somebody come along make a lousy movie about all that. No, 1:11:18.439 --> 1:11:21.559 thank you. So he flew from Vienna, Austria. I met 1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:23.600 him as a courtesy because he flew over. I got 1:11:23.600 --> 1:11:25.720 a bunch of letters, I'll meet you, but I meant 1:11:25.840 --> 1:11:29.280 I want to say no, you know. We so we 1:11:29.400 --> 1:11:33.080 met at Cafe Reggio on McDougall Street, and how nice 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:34.760 to meet you. Thanks for coming, thanks for wanting to 1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:35.880 do it. But why do you want to make a 1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:38.400 movie about me? I'm not a rock star. I don't 1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:41.600 have its songs, you know. And he says, because he 1:11:41.640 --> 1:11:44.160 says right away, you never gave up. You're doing your 1:11:44.160 --> 1:11:48.519 best work now and with New York City as a backdrop, 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:53.760 it's the story of inspiration and okay, because I love 1:11:53.800 --> 1:11:57.960 New York City, madhouse that it is. And we talked 1:11:58.000 --> 1:12:00.720 for two hours and every single thing picked up on. 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:04.400 We were just you know, talking about our lives, telling 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.479 the stories, you know. Being in Paris, I did an 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:09.719 interview tour with JD Doherty, my drummer. We just drank 1:12:09.720 --> 1:12:16.519 our way across Europe, you know, London, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Zurich, Munich. 1:12:16.720 --> 1:12:19.440 We drove through the Italian We drove through the Alps, 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:21.920 throwing stop every half an hour to throw snowballs. In 1:12:22.360 --> 1:12:24.439 June and the Alps, it was like talking to God. 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:28.200 End up in Hamburg, you know where the Beatles played. 1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:31.760 We went to the Reaper Bomb, fascinating, the red the 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.760 Red Light District, the most unsexty place you'll ever see, 1:12:35.400 --> 1:12:38.120 and it was. It was magical. But everything he picked 1:12:38.200 --> 1:12:42.960 up on this director Lucas was like really smart. Like 1:12:43.000 --> 1:12:44.760 if we talked a few things, everything he picked up 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:47.360 and I go, this guy's pretty smart, you know. And anyway, 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:49.960 I thought, you know what, maybe I'm wrong about this. No, 1:12:50.640 --> 1:12:53.800 you know, Okay, well let's try it. And so that 1:12:53.880 --> 1:12:57.040 was like five years ago. So Phil, we filmed in Italy, 1:12:57.640 --> 1:13:00.679 in London at the BBC with the great Johnny Walker, 1:13:01.600 --> 1:13:04.400 around London, around I was Buffalo, in the northeast New 1:13:04.479 --> 1:13:06.680 York City, a ton of New York. You know, it's 1:13:06.680 --> 1:13:09.840 pretty fun. You should do it sometime. Put has somebody 1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:12.519 put a microphone on you in a camera and follow 1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:15.240 you walking the streets in New York. Within ten minutes, 1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:18.920 something's going to happen. That's peculiar. It's happened time and 1:13:18.920 --> 1:13:22.000 time again, and it's really fun and interesting. You know. 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:28.280 I like character, whether it's you know, a medieval city 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:31.760 hall and the Italian Alps, or whether it's you know, 1:13:32.560 --> 1:13:36.479 some grungy club in Lower Manhattan on a Bowerie. You know, 1:13:36.600 --> 1:13:39.559 things with meaning a character. I love that. That inspires me. 1:13:39.600 --> 1:13:42.599 That's why I keep doing it. Anyway, this thing's coming 1:13:42.640 --> 1:13:45.240 along pretty good, this film. You know, we did a 1:13:45.280 --> 1:13:48.280 show so I tore it to who in nineteen eighty 1:13:48.280 --> 1:13:51.240 across the US, right, And I've kept good, great relations 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:55.400 with Bill Kurbish, Lee and Roger Daltrey and Pete Towns 1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:58.400 and they've been really good to me. You know, I 1:13:58.520 --> 1:14:02.600 played a few years ago, five years or so, the 1:14:03.160 --> 1:14:06.080 Music Cares was honoring Pete Townsend and Bill Kurbishly. I 1:14:06.120 --> 1:14:09.439 get a call one day early May and it's my 1:14:09.479 --> 1:14:13.240 book an agent and he says it a few years ago, Hey, 1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:16.000 what are you doing May twenty eighth? I remember that date. 1:14:16.640 --> 1:14:19.519 I go, i'mre in New York because we just got 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:22.240 a call from the Grammys. They want they're honoring Bill 1:14:22.280 --> 1:14:24.759 Kurbishly and Pete Townsend. They want to get five artists 1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:28.839 to sing two Pete Townsend songs, Bruce Springsteen, Roger Daltrey 1:14:30.120 --> 1:14:33.040 joint you at Billy Idol and you I'm thinking, what's 1:14:33.040 --> 1:14:36.920 wrong with this picture? What's wrong with this picture? Wait 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:40.400 a minute, there's anyway. That's that's how nice these guys 1:14:40.400 --> 1:14:43.680 have been to me, and sure enough whatever the Danocchia 1:14:43.800 --> 1:14:46.920 Theater or whatever it was called, what a blast. You know. 1:14:46.960 --> 1:14:49.040 I got to play with the Who, I mean, give 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:51.719 me a break again. It can't make it up. And 1:14:52.439 --> 1:14:55.040 I sang substitute and the kids are all right, two 1:14:55.040 --> 1:14:58.360 of the best songs ever. And and then so we're 1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:00.439 sound checking. Here you go, you can't make this. We're 1:15:00.479 --> 1:15:03.559 sound checking. And I did my sound check electric guitar, 1:15:03.680 --> 1:15:06.680 signed my songs, you know, with the Who band. I mean, 1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:10.200 Pete wasn't playing when I played so great. And then 1:15:10.600 --> 1:15:12.960 Bruce sound checked, and then we all went out to 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:15.800 do the encore run through. I won't get fooled again. 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:18.760 And I'm at the very end of the stage microphone, 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:20.559 says Willie Nile. At the bottom of it. I go 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:24.000 so proud to be here. Won't get fooled again. I 1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:26.400 never played on guitar, but I know I tip my 1:15:26.520 --> 1:15:30.240 hat to the new constitute. I'll send the chorus. So 1:15:30.360 --> 1:15:32.320 Pete comes with this acoustic guitar and he's looking down 1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:35.880 to all the people that goes, we need another electric guitar, 1:15:36.400 --> 1:15:41.080 and he's looking at me. I'm going, we need another 1:15:41.120 --> 1:15:43.800 electric guitar. He's looking right up and go ah, I'll 1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:46.280 get bye. So I turned around. I walked back again. 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:48.280 I'm thinking, what are you doing, you idiot. I'm not 1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:50.720 Richard Thompson. I cannot I don't know where how to 1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:53.240 play it. So get my guitar. I'm thinking, jeez, now 1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:54.920 you did it. And I get back to this front 1:15:54.920 --> 1:15:57.120 of the stage and then moved my microphone right next 1:15:57.160 --> 1:16:00.400 to Pete and uh and Roger and Bruce. I'm going, 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:02.639 this is this is not work. This is gonna be trouble. 1:16:03.200 --> 1:16:08.160 And so I'm so they started playing the song. I'm going, oh, 1:16:08.240 --> 1:16:10.920 this is fun, but I'm petrified. I knew two of 1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:12.479 the chords I hit him and then the rest. I'm 1:16:12.520 --> 1:16:16.080 just going I was just chinking away. I didn't know 1:16:16.160 --> 1:16:18.120 the chords. You know, if I was Richard Thompson, I 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:21.080 could have pulled it off. So Pete goes, oh, that 1:16:21.120 --> 1:16:22.720 was pretty bad. Looks around him. He goes, will he 1:16:22.800 --> 1:16:26.040 loosen up? It's like right out of a Bill Murray movie, 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:31.000 right and and uh. So we did it again, and 1:16:31.040 --> 1:16:33.080 I did the same thing, you know, and I thought, well, 1:16:33.080 --> 1:16:35.200 Bruce will be really allowed, you know, he'll cover it. 1:16:35.840 --> 1:16:38.559 He was you couldn't hear him. And he goes, ah, 1:16:38.600 --> 1:16:40.920 well we'll be okay. Pete left, you know, and and 1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:43.320 Bill Bill Kurbers and God blessed him goes, well if 1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:45.240 there's not even if there's no mistakes, it won't be 1:16:45.240 --> 1:16:48.720 a who show, you know. So so we go in 1:16:48.720 --> 1:16:51.120 the dressing room. I'm walking by Bruce. I go, I'm 1:16:51.120 --> 1:16:52.639 taking this to the dressing room. I don't know how 1:16:52.680 --> 1:16:54.559 this song goes. So I get in the dressing room 1:16:54.680 --> 1:16:57.120 sitting down. Bruce comes back with his guitar and the 1:16:57.479 --> 1:16:59.960 lyrics are spread out in front of us by Kevin 1:17:00.200 --> 1:17:04.120 dear guitar tech. And so Bruce and I picture this 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:09.280 fifteen minutes on a couch like like teenagers, like high 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:12.760 school kids, learn it. Won't get fooled again. He didn't 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:14.400 know it either, and I go, I think that's a 1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:17.080 being minor. He goes, I don't know, like yeah, yeah. Anyway, 1:17:17.120 --> 1:17:19.040 After about ten minutes, he goes, I got it. I go, 1:17:19.479 --> 1:17:21.519 I don't. So I took the lyrics, went in the 1:17:21.520 --> 1:17:24.600 corner for other twenty minutes and learned it, and we 1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:26.599 played it that night and it was so much fun. 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:28.240 You know, this clip of the clips of it on 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:30.360 if you Google, Won't can Fool Again? With a Who 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:33.400 and Bruce and me. It was just glorious. You know, 1:17:33.400 --> 1:17:35.600 when you've got nothing to lose and you go on 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:38.200 stage and you're not trying to show off, and you're 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:41.920 there because you love the music. I mean, that's why 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:44.520 you like it, you know, you you you you persist 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:47.639 because you love it, you know, and because you care. 1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:51.760 Obviously it's mostly crap, but there's some great stuff. And 1:17:51.880 --> 1:17:54.400 growing up the way we did with all that music, 1:17:54.439 --> 1:17:58.759 that's so much inspiring music, Soul music, Won't R and B, Blues, 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:03.080 British and Fade Dylan, you know, the whole revolution that happened. 1:18:03.160 --> 1:18:07.439 You know, it's meaningful, you know, and music still means 1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:09.760 something to me, it really does. You can tell. I'm 1:18:09.960 --> 1:18:11.920 I mean it, you know, and I make these I 1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:14.880 made nine albums in the last twelve years on my 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:18.680 own label, you know, House of a Thousand Guitars, The 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:22.160 Innocent Ones, American Ride ten years ago. I made an 1:18:22.160 --> 1:18:25.960 American Ride. Last week we did a tenth out of 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.559 anniversary and played a top to bottom. I hadn't heard 1:18:28.560 --> 1:18:31.679 half of those songs and years that was so much fun, 1:18:32.160 --> 1:18:33.760 you know, and I'm gonna do Streets in New York 1:18:33.920 --> 1:18:37.719 next month at the City Winery in March. Nine albums 1:18:37.720 --> 1:18:40.000 in the twelve years and two thousand and six, when 1:18:40.040 --> 1:18:42.519 I put out Here's the sixth, Here's the positive side 1:18:42.560 --> 1:18:45.400 of this story. In two thousand and six, I put 1:18:45.400 --> 1:18:48.840 out an album called Streets of New York Again. You know, 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:51.639 I waited for Andy York, the great guitarist who helped 1:18:51.640 --> 1:18:56.080 co produce the records Rich Pogano and my band and 1:18:56.520 --> 1:18:58.640 made this. I waited for Andy. He's worth waiting for 1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:01.840 his melancamp's lead guitar play, and he was busy. Finally 1:19:01.840 --> 1:19:04.479 had some time. We made this record and I love it. 1:19:04.560 --> 1:19:06.719 It's about the streets in New York. It's a picture 1:19:06.760 --> 1:19:08.800 on the back of my feet, you know, on the 1:19:08.800 --> 1:19:13.680 stones my son took and a great photographer, and it 1:19:13.800 --> 1:19:16.600 came out and it put men, put me back in 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:19.400 the map. You know. It made the charts in Billboard whatever. 1:19:19.479 --> 1:19:21.600 It didn't make me rich. You know, nothing's made me 1:19:21.720 --> 1:19:27.000 rich that's coming anyway. I thought, then, you know what, 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:32.360 I can't control the business. I can't control radio. All 1:19:32.360 --> 1:19:34.600 I can control is the songs I write and the 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:37.320 records I make and the shows I put on live. 1:19:37.800 --> 1:19:40.440 You know, I want to try to make a masterpiece 1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:42.479 every time out. I'm just gonna try to make the 1:19:42.479 --> 1:19:45.000 best records I can make. Why wouldn't I. You know, 1:19:45.080 --> 1:19:46.519 when I make a record, I don't make them in 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:49.280 the studio. I got the songs written, you know, and 1:19:49.479 --> 1:19:51.960 I have it picked out. I sometimes sequenced before we 1:19:52.000 --> 1:19:54.880 record them, and I won't go in. I won't record 1:19:54.880 --> 1:19:57.519 a song if I don't think it's special. I don't 1:19:57.520 --> 1:20:00.920 want anybody to subject anybody to that. There's enough crap 1:20:00.920 --> 1:20:03.240 out there with I me ed to it. So I've 1:20:03.280 --> 1:20:05.639 made these records and I try to make everyone and 1:20:05.840 --> 1:20:08.080 there's a now that I said I'm gonna build a catalog. 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:11.439 I didn't care about fame anyway. Money, Yeah, I'm open 1:20:11.479 --> 1:20:15.639 to that. But now I have, you know, fourteen records 1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:19.120 I put out and our thirteen whatever, and I'm proud 1:20:19.120 --> 1:20:22.240 of them, and you know, I feel really good about that. 1:20:22.360 --> 1:20:27.320 So the journey, the struggle which continues. You know, I'm 1:20:27.360 --> 1:20:30.240 still working hard. I'm not rich. I still live five 1:20:30.240 --> 1:20:33.360 flights up. You know, we got it in the documentary. 1:20:33.360 --> 1:20:35.600 There's film footage to me walking up. You know, you 1:20:35.640 --> 1:20:38.120 shoot somebody's feet from the back walking up five flights 1:20:38.160 --> 1:20:40.120 carrying a guitar in a bag at two in the morning, 1:20:40.720 --> 1:20:45.320 with wet socks, damp underwear, wet pants. You know, you're 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:50.320 still close from the show. And over the years I 1:20:50.439 --> 1:20:53.360 used to hate those stairs. Now I thank you, thank you, 1:20:53.439 --> 1:20:55.679 thank you, because it's kept me fit, you know, three 1:20:55.680 --> 1:20:58.680 times a day walking up five floods, you know, and 1:20:58.720 --> 1:21:02.920 it's been fascinating. The characters I've seen that I've met, 1:21:03.560 --> 1:21:08.519 but many of gone now, you know, George Girty's many people. 1:21:08.600 --> 1:21:11.479 And I wouldn't trade it for anything, you know, I mean, 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:15.599 it was hard on my family. All They will say 1:21:15.640 --> 1:21:17.840 this if in nineteen eighty when I made that first 1:21:17.880 --> 1:21:20.960 record and there was a double page spread in Billboard, 1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:25.759 page seven and eight Willie Nile's first album, Isn't He Swell? Whatever? 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:28.320 Whatever it said, you know, New York Times, La Times, 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:32.880 Terry Review, glowing reviews. I was deeply grateful for I 1:21:33.000 --> 1:21:35.280 really was, for the people who wrote those for Aris 1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:39.559 to try and for me, you know. And from then, 1:21:39.640 --> 1:21:43.800 if I'd become really, really rich and really famous, who 1:21:43.840 --> 1:21:46.200 knows what destruction that could have wrought. Would my four 1:21:46.280 --> 1:21:49.000 kids be as good people as they are now being 1:21:49.000 --> 1:21:51.240 able to have anything they want. I need a new 1:21:51.280 --> 1:21:54.040 car dead, oh you know what I need. You know, 1:21:54.680 --> 1:21:57.280 my kids are really good people, you know, and we 1:21:57.320 --> 1:21:59.680 all love each other, and my grandchildren because there's a 1:21:59.680 --> 1:22:04.360 sense of family. Had fame and riches entered into that equation, 1:22:05.520 --> 1:22:07.840 might it be the same, I don't know. It was 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:10.920 certainly a hard road and it continues. I'm seventy four 1:22:11.000 --> 1:22:14.880 years old now, you know. And there's a gig at 1:22:14.880 --> 1:22:19.759 this June Willie and Ail's seventy fifth birthday. That's funny. 1:22:20.040 --> 1:22:22.160 I don't feel it, you know, And I'm enjoying it. 1:22:22.160 --> 1:22:23.839 And I got one of the best bands in the world, 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:27.720 and it's never been better, actually, so I live to 1:22:27.720 --> 1:22:30.120 tell the tale to this point. Okay, if you go back, 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:32.479 those of us were there when the first Erast album 1:22:32.520 --> 1:22:35.799 came out, which I certainly bought. There was a huge buzz. 1:22:36.400 --> 1:22:40.920 So from the outside it looks like it didn't happen. 1:22:42.000 --> 1:22:45.479 So from the inside all of this, you're, you know, 1:22:45.600 --> 1:22:51.400 your very level, but I have to believe you were 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:55.559 really distraught or maybe temporarily bitter when you have these 1:22:55.600 --> 1:23:01.160 setbacks before you equalized. Oh my god, Yes, it was 1:23:01.280 --> 1:23:04.360 so hardn't I don't know if bitter is the word. 1:23:04.400 --> 1:23:09.880 Distraught absolutely, you know, just terrified, absolutely, and it didn't happen, 1:23:10.000 --> 1:23:11.400 you know. I mean it was a lot of hype. 1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:14.599 It was overhyped, but they were trying. You know, it's 1:23:14.600 --> 1:23:17.160 a work. Sometimes it doesn't. But it was really difficult. 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:20.720 The strain on my family was really immense. So it 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:24.479 was a very difficult times. I mean mostly really hard years. 1:23:24.680 --> 1:23:26.280 You know, I'm not not trying to put a rosy 1:23:26.320 --> 1:23:30.439 picture on it. You know, it was tough and you know, 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:32.960 trying to make a living as a musician not the 1:23:33.000 --> 1:23:36.559 easiest thing, you know, and sometimes you can be deserving 1:23:36.560 --> 1:23:38.759 of it and doesn't happen. You know, there's no deserves 1:23:38.800 --> 1:23:41.400 in this world. It is what it is. But I 1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:47.760 was I absolutely brewed blue and distraught and dismayed and heartbroken. 1:23:47.840 --> 1:23:52.559 Oh absolutely absolutely. But like my dad says, you got 1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.240 to pick yourself up and get on with it, you know. 1:23:56.120 --> 1:23:58.400 You know it's funny. This is a pretty good example. 1:23:59.439 --> 1:24:02.240 Last December a year ago, I was in Buffalo for 1:24:02.240 --> 1:24:06.200 the holidays, stand at the dad's house and it was 1:24:06.439 --> 1:24:10.439 four degrees out and it's the morning Dad's waking up. 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:12.360 He's going to go to church. My brother's gonna take 1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:14.840 him to church. And I'm waking up to you know, 1:24:14.880 --> 1:24:17.000 wash my face and you know, hit the men's room 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:20.080 and go back to bed. And I'm coming out of 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.880 the bathroom and Dad's about, you know, in the shirt, 1:24:22.880 --> 1:24:25.760 you're getting ready. I go, it's like four degrees out there. 1:24:25.800 --> 1:24:28.880 It's pretty cold. And he goes outside the door to 1:24:28.920 --> 1:24:32.920 get the newspaper, comes back and he goes, yeah, he says, 1:24:33.439 --> 1:24:35.599 that's cold, and he goes he pauses for a minute. 1:24:35.640 --> 1:24:40.400 He said, bring it on. The guy's one hundred and three, 1:24:40.240 --> 1:24:42.439 one hundred and three years old, and he goes, bring 1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:46.120 it on. I mean that kind of spit that, you 1:24:46.200 --> 1:24:48.320 know what. Yeah, I'm knocked down, but I'm getting back up. 1:24:48.360 --> 1:24:51.400 What's that great band movie where Levan says New York City, 1:24:51.400 --> 1:24:53.880 He'll kick you, kick your ass, you know, and you 1:24:54.080 --> 1:24:56.080 run out of you leave town with the tail between 1:24:56.120 --> 1:24:57.960 your legs, and you get back up again, you go 1:24:58.439 --> 1:25:01.000 head back into the fight. I ain't never given up. 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:03.519 I'll drop before that. But was I blew? Was I 1:25:03.640 --> 1:25:07.320 just maye? Was I broken hearted? Absolutely? Oh my god? Yeah, 1:25:07.560 --> 1:25:10.400 trying to support a family and there's no you know, 1:25:10.560 --> 1:25:12.840 there's no ways. Everybody's got a tough story to tell. 1:25:12.960 --> 1:25:16.120 Mine's no different than anybody else. Everybody's got it hard. 1:25:16.479 --> 1:25:26.160 That's why that's what music offers us. Okay, Gay, go back. 1:25:26.200 --> 1:25:28.479 You said it earlier that you were a proof feeder 1:25:28.640 --> 1:25:33.160 for showtime. When was that? Yeah, it was a proof 1:25:33.160 --> 1:25:35.920 feeder for showtime. So in nineteen ninety nine, I had 1:25:35.960 --> 1:25:38.960 a ninety seven eighty nine, I had a band in 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:41.800 New York, Willie All and the Worried Dolls and New 1:25:41.920 --> 1:25:45.800 York Rich Bergano Bread I'll Better great, scrappy little band, 1:25:46.160 --> 1:25:47.720 My god. We made a We went in to cut 1:25:47.760 --> 1:25:50.800 some demos and came out with I thought, this is 1:25:50.840 --> 1:25:54.120 an album called beautiful record the world, you know, and 1:25:54.479 --> 1:25:56.720 it holds up to this day and I love it. 1:25:57.479 --> 1:26:00.400 And at ninety nine, I'm running out of money again 1:26:00.600 --> 1:26:03.160 and I go and yeah, I'm getting broken. He goes, yeah, 1:26:03.240 --> 1:26:05.280 it kind of sucks, but you can always proof read. 1:26:06.000 --> 1:26:09.080 I go, what's that and he goes, well, that's pretty bad. 1:26:09.120 --> 1:26:11.200 It's probably boring, but like you know, you can survive. 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:14.519 So I found this place. He gave me this number 1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:16.519 you could call, and this guy gave a three day, 1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:20.120 two hour class what it was about, and he brought 1:26:20.160 --> 1:26:24.799 up a fake resume, and so I take this fake resume, 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:27.479 you know, and I would go into a you know, 1:26:27.840 --> 1:26:29.840 employee places, and I guess they sent me out for 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:32.519 a job. I go to a law firm I didn't 1:26:32.520 --> 1:26:36.120 even know. I remember the first I get that showtime. 1:26:36.280 --> 1:26:38.439 I had a job I was doing legal proof reading. 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:41.519 And it was easy because on the left side you 1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:43.960 had a pile of paper, on the right side had 1:26:43.960 --> 1:26:45.320 a pile of paper. He said, to make sure that 1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.360 they were they were the changes were correctly made. So 1:26:49.680 --> 1:26:52.559 so I did that and a financial proof reading midnight 1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:55.080 to eight. Oh my god, I'm drinking coffee all night. 1:26:55.080 --> 1:26:57.439 I get home at eight in the morning. I laid 1:26:57.439 --> 1:26:59.840 down to go to sleep, and my eyes are wide open. 1:26:59.880 --> 1:27:03.160 I couldn't sleep anyway. I got to offer part time 1:27:03.240 --> 1:27:06.360 job at showtime. A dear friend said, they're looking for 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:09.280 a part time proof reader. This is like June or 1:27:09.360 --> 1:27:13.400 July of two thousand, I think it was something like that. 1:27:14.200 --> 1:27:16.519 And I went up and I applied. Yeah, sure, you know, 1:27:16.520 --> 1:27:18.840 it was easy. The boss there at Paul was so great. 1:27:19.400 --> 1:27:21.400 I get this part time job and I'm there in 1:27:21.400 --> 1:27:23.400 the summer and it was easy worked. It wasn't much work. 1:27:24.360 --> 1:27:27.200 And one day I hear my boss playing beautiful reck 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:30.920 of the World in his office and he calls me in. Willie, 1:27:31.000 --> 1:27:34.240 get in here, Yeah, he goes, He holds on my record. 1:27:34.280 --> 1:27:38.080 He goes, this is really good. I got thanks. No, no, no, no, 1:27:38.160 --> 1:27:40.800 this is really good. He says, I know music. I 1:27:40.880 --> 1:27:43.080 used to play saxon a band. This is really good. 1:27:43.120 --> 1:27:45.040 And I was, well, thank you, and he says, you 1:27:45.040 --> 1:27:46.920 know what, I'm looking for, a full time proof read 1:27:46.960 --> 1:27:50.520 you want the job. Just like that, I went, yeah, 1:27:50.640 --> 1:27:53.240 So I got a day job at Showtime in the 1:27:53.240 --> 1:27:58.519 creative department. Great, great people. The CEO of Showtime, Matt Blank, 1:27:59.160 --> 1:28:04.320 huge fan, the president less mmm wait less, Oh, come on, 1:28:06.560 --> 1:28:11.719 might come to me Les Moonves, who's not not Moonves? 1:28:11.800 --> 1:28:14.320 It was I'll come to me, great guy, he was 1:28:14.320 --> 1:28:16.720 a president. They'd stopped me in the hall. How are 1:28:16.720 --> 1:28:19.240 you doing you making another record? Meanwhile, I'm in my 1:28:19.280 --> 1:28:23.559 little cubicle running my little label, river House Records, and 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:25.320 doing the work or here comes the work, no problem, 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:27.960 ba ba blah booh, okay, okay, next what about you know? 1:28:28.120 --> 1:28:32.040 And uh we filmed it for the for the documentary, 1:28:32.040 --> 1:28:34.439 we got footage of me in that cubicle. And one 1:28:34.520 --> 1:28:36.840 day I leave the cubicle. You know, I got a 1:28:36.880 --> 1:28:41.040 call from Terry who was somebody called me a Springsteen people. 1:28:41.960 --> 1:28:44.080 Bruce wants you to come to Giant Stadium when they 1:28:44.120 --> 1:28:47.080 were closing the last five shows at Giant Stadium. Bruce 1:28:47.120 --> 1:28:48.960 has been really good to me. I mean, he's invited 1:28:49.000 --> 1:28:51.120 me on stage many times. He's joined my band on 1:28:51.200 --> 1:28:54.320 stage many times. You know, he's just he's been really 1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:58.200 good to me. And so I'm it's I'm a cubicle 1:28:58.520 --> 1:29:01.160 doing this, you know, this job. And it was I was, 1:29:01.479 --> 1:29:05.040 it's steadied my boat after all those years of wolf 1:29:05.120 --> 1:29:09.639 at the door, you know, fear and worry and stuff, 1:29:10.240 --> 1:29:13.400 and that was clowning around in there, of course. But 1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:16.479 so next thing, and so I got out of work, 1:29:16.520 --> 1:29:18.639 I get a boss. I go to Giant Stadium. I'm 1:29:18.680 --> 1:29:21.240 in Bruce's dressing room and he goes, We're gonna play 1:29:21.560 --> 1:29:23.920 American Land. It goes like this, it plays me and 1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:28.439 I got it. So I'm on seventy thousand people going 1:29:28.600 --> 1:29:32.160 nuts at Giant Stadium. It's loud, and I'm laughing at 1:29:32.160 --> 1:29:33.920 because I know the Eastreet band, I'll play with him 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:36.840 before they got it covered. So I figured this is easy. 1:29:37.920 --> 1:29:40.439 So I go up and I'll play with Bruce. And 1:29:40.600 --> 1:29:42.439 because I'd played with him at schae Stadium in two 1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:44.920 thousand and three, and this was the last five shows 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:49.879 at Giant Stadium. And uh, I go from my cubicle, 1:29:50.160 --> 1:29:53.160 you know, and near Time Square too, you know, in 1:29:53.240 --> 1:29:56.160 front of seventy thousand people going nuts. And I finished 1:29:56.200 --> 1:29:58.400 the song, left the stage and next time you here, 1:29:58.439 --> 1:30:00.360 they're going, well, he wants it back. He's going get well, 1:30:00.520 --> 1:30:02.240 I'll back up here. I go back up. We do 1:30:02.320 --> 1:30:04.519 two more songs and do you know how at the 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:07.439 end this shows Bruce so the band will all go 1:30:07.520 --> 1:30:09.120 to the front of the stage. Well it was that 1:30:09.240 --> 1:30:11.080 moment when they all went to the front of the stage, 1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:12.639 you know, the very front. So I go, well, I'm 1:30:12.640 --> 1:30:14.160 going too, So I followed him at the front of 1:30:14.200 --> 1:30:16.800 the stage. I remember looking down. This woman's looking up, going, 1:30:17.479 --> 1:30:19.920 who the hell is that guy? I just looked at 1:30:19.960 --> 1:30:23.360 I went I looked like, I don't know, I'm just here, 1:30:23.439 --> 1:30:27.000 you know. And God bless him. Generosity is that spirit 1:30:27.160 --> 1:30:31.400 of He's got that spirit of loving the play, you know, 1:30:32.080 --> 1:30:35.360 loving the music. That makes a difference. Anyway, I forget 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:39.080 where I started off on that tale. But how many years? 1:30:39.600 --> 1:30:43.120 How long did you work for Showtime? Twelve years? I 1:30:43.200 --> 1:30:45.280 worked at twelve years, and they were so good to me. 1:30:45.760 --> 1:30:48.560 It was interesting. I never minded going, you know, And 1:30:49.439 --> 1:30:51.639 because it was not hard work, I wasn't thinking ditches, 1:30:52.200 --> 1:30:55.080 you know. And I had I had. I had healthcare. 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:58.599 My brother, my youngest brother, John, had a heart attack 1:30:58.720 --> 1:31:01.240 at fifty years old because he had no healthcare. For 1:31:01.360 --> 1:31:05.040 four years, he managed a club restaurant of our restaurant 1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:07.240 that went that he had that went under, and for 1:31:07.320 --> 1:31:09.720 four years he was doing the apartment fix ups. So 1:31:09.800 --> 1:31:11.960 I didn't go to a doctor. I asked a woman 1:31:12.000 --> 1:31:14.240 to do the autopsy. I found his body an apartment 1:31:14.320 --> 1:31:16.439 right next to mine. Then I have two days. I 1:31:16.520 --> 1:31:20.720 found his body and it was just dreadful, and I 1:31:20.760 --> 1:31:22.760 asked a woman to do the autopsy. I said, hey, 1:31:22.920 --> 1:31:24.559 if he went to a doctor, she goes, oh, yeah, 1:31:25.040 --> 1:31:27.360 he'd still be here, you know. But he couldn't afford it. 1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:31.080 So Showtime I got. I had a regular salary, I 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:33.559 could pay my bills, I had healthcare, and I could 1:31:33.640 --> 1:31:36.479 run my record label, make records, and Showtime was nice 1:31:36.560 --> 1:31:39.320 enough to let me get unpaid leave to go to 1:31:39.400 --> 1:31:42.719 Europe to tour two weeks here, two weeks there, until 1:31:43.160 --> 1:31:45.559 one time they said to me, a boss, Paul, I said, 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:48.439 you know, we can't do that anymore. This people are saying, well, 1:31:48.479 --> 1:31:49.960 why can't If will he can do it, why can't 1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:52.720 I get unpaid leave? And I understand that, and so 1:31:52.840 --> 1:31:54.200 I really had to make a decision. It was a 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:56.960 real fork in the road for me. Do I quit? 1:31:57.520 --> 1:31:59.479 You know, I was doing gigs? Do I really take 1:31:59.520 --> 1:32:02.800 that jump off the deep end? Well? The deep end 1:32:02.880 --> 1:32:04.800 must be my home. Because I took the leap. I figured, 1:32:04.800 --> 1:32:06.559 all right, I'm leaving this job and I'm gonna try 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:08.479 to get gigs on my own and no book an agent, 1:32:08.560 --> 1:32:14.720 no manager, and buddy my always managing me. No, I 1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:20.320 think it stopped at that point. Anyway, I worked a 1:32:20.360 --> 1:32:25.000 show down twelve years and met Christina around that time, 1:32:25.200 --> 1:32:29.960 and then I've been making records and touring as much 1:32:30.000 --> 1:32:33.560 as I can since then. You know, Oh, okay, so 1:32:33.760 --> 1:32:37.519 let's start with that. How many gigs a year do 1:32:37.680 --> 1:32:41.200 you do? What are the economics? You have a band? 1:32:41.360 --> 1:32:44.559 How does this all work over there. It varies. Before COVID, 1:32:45.240 --> 1:32:48.720 I was doing maybe fifty sixty shows a year or 1:32:48.760 --> 1:32:51.760 something like that. You know, i didn't have a book 1:32:51.760 --> 1:32:53.360 an agent for a while, but I've had one for 1:32:53.439 --> 1:32:57.719 some years now. So sometimes i play solo, sometimes duo, 1:32:58.280 --> 1:33:01.519 sometimes full band, depends on my I'm getting paid, you know, 1:33:01.760 --> 1:33:05.160 and I've been blessed with a great great players who 1:33:05.360 --> 1:33:08.880 if you see the band play every single song, they 1:33:08.960 --> 1:33:12.559 give everything they got every night. Nobody phones it in like, yeah, 1:33:12.960 --> 1:33:15.519 pay me, none of that. They are passionate about it 1:33:16.520 --> 1:33:22.120 as as I'm i and economically I'm going to the 1:33:22.280 --> 1:33:28.160 UK for some shows in April. Four shows Edinburgh, Leicester, 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:31.240 Chichester and London. We're playing one hundred Club. I'll played 1:33:31.240 --> 1:33:33.880 there before, The Who played there in the sixties, The 1:33:34.000 --> 1:33:37.040 Sex Pistols played there, a great venue. The great Johnny 1:33:37.080 --> 1:33:38.760 Walker is going to come to the show that night, 1:33:38.840 --> 1:33:42.040 you know, the great legendary DJ from the UK. And 1:33:43.280 --> 1:33:45.120 I was going to get a couple of guys from 1:33:45.160 --> 1:33:47.880 the two there's a guitar player, drummer. I'm taking my 1:33:47.920 --> 1:33:51.240 bass player. That was original plan. There's two guys would 1:33:51.280 --> 1:33:56.479 join us in Edinburgh and Joe Strummer's old drummer in 1:33:57.160 --> 1:34:02.559 the mescal Aros Smiley, Bernard Barnard and James Stevenson from 1:34:02.640 --> 1:34:05.280 The Alarm the Cult. We're going to join me in 1:34:05.360 --> 1:34:07.240 two of the gigs, and all of a sudden they 1:34:07.280 --> 1:34:10.760 couldn't do one of the gigs because they had to 1:34:10.760 --> 1:34:13.320 rehearsal all day with the Alarm. And I wasn't bringing 1:34:13.439 --> 1:34:16.080 my band because it didn't pay for itself. You know, 1:34:16.120 --> 1:34:20.480 I couldn't afford to bring them flights, pay band, pay hotels, 1:34:21.600 --> 1:34:26.799 van rental backline. So taking going to Europe having instruments 1:34:26.960 --> 1:34:31.640 or not instruments, but amplifiers, drums, and transportation. That adds up. 1:34:32.120 --> 1:34:34.000 If you were in a group, you could split it three, 1:34:34.040 --> 1:34:36.960 four ways, five ways. But when you're a solo artist, 1:34:37.080 --> 1:34:39.760 you pay. You have to pay people. So I've done 1:34:40.080 --> 1:34:42.840 play tour with a Spanish band in Spain, and I'm 1:34:42.840 --> 1:34:46.080 gonna spands great players there in Italy. I got I'm 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:48.479 doing dates in Italy the February duo show with a 1:34:48.560 --> 1:34:51.479 great blues guitarist. So it depends where I go, how 1:34:51.560 --> 1:34:52.960 much money is being paid, if I could take the 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:56.080 full band or not. A great friend and fan has 1:34:56.120 --> 1:34:57.880 come up with some money to allow me now to 1:34:58.000 --> 1:35:01.280 bring my New York City band to the UK. So 1:35:01.840 --> 1:35:05.679 uh for three shows. Three of those four shows, I'll 1:35:05.960 --> 1:35:08.000 so in London. I'll have my guys, my New York 1:35:08.040 --> 1:35:12.360 City bad Boys. It's gonna be fun. So it varies, Bob, 1:35:12.520 --> 1:35:15.439 from from how much you're making but you can't afford. 1:35:16.200 --> 1:35:19.160 And I've been, I mean I've I've been. I've played 1:35:19.520 --> 1:35:25.720 oh my goodness, uh arenas, I've played dentist's office. I've 1:35:25.760 --> 1:35:27.960 played no Kid in south By, Southwest. It was a 1:35:28.000 --> 1:35:31.640 dentist's office. You know, this guy did gigs for He 1:35:31.680 --> 1:35:34.240 would do work for musicians who couldn't afford it. So 1:35:34.360 --> 1:35:37.519 they were doing a concert in his dentist office. We've 1:35:37.560 --> 1:35:42.559 done everything. We've played, closets, played, uh you know, arenas, whatever, it's, 1:35:42.600 --> 1:35:44.880 it's all of the above. And I find that pretty 1:35:45.000 --> 1:35:48.679 looking back fascinating. You know, it hasn't. It hasn't. There's 1:35:48.720 --> 1:35:53.599 no chip on my shoulder and hasn't knocked me down yet. Okay, 1:35:54.280 --> 1:35:56.559 So if you stop today, do you have any money? 1:35:57.439 --> 1:36:00.479 Not enough to live on? Nope, Nope, not no nest egg. 1:36:00.520 --> 1:36:03.040 It was doing all right before COVID hit. You know 1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:07.800 when Covid hit. There was a lot of gigs and 1:36:07.920 --> 1:36:10.519 I was doing all right, you know, starting to save money, 1:36:10.960 --> 1:36:13.120 you know, and but COVID came in. The gigs went 1:36:13.320 --> 1:36:17.479 in two thousand and twenty. After I had a gig 1:36:17.560 --> 1:36:21.000 with the band February twenty ninth, and then we had 1:36:21.040 --> 1:36:24.120 one gig the rest of the year. One gig. I 1:36:24.240 --> 1:36:27.519 did a series of online once a month online shows, 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:32.000 you know, through veeps dot com, and they're fascinating. One 1:36:32.040 --> 1:36:33.599 of them we went, I went with my bass player 1:36:33.760 --> 1:36:35.240 on the streets of New York and we went to 1:36:35.600 --> 1:36:38.639 the Bowery Mission through a song we went to outside 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:42.120 the the Dakota where John Lennon was murdered, you know, 1:36:42.240 --> 1:36:44.559 and just did songs around New York, told stories about 1:36:44.600 --> 1:36:47.960 the city. I had my band in Bowery Electric Great Club, 1:36:48.120 --> 1:36:52.160 in the Manhattan Punk Club, Jesse Mallen's Club. So I 1:36:52.280 --> 1:36:56.599 got through that year by doing online shows. Well after 1:36:56.760 --> 1:37:00.000 that year that people don't care about seeing online shows anymore, 1:37:00.640 --> 1:37:04.160 and there's gigs enough to survive. But it's the last year. 1:37:04.200 --> 1:37:06.759 It's been thinner, you know, it's been thin. So COVID 1:37:06.800 --> 1:37:09.600 has been thin, and this year we'll probably finished the 1:37:09.680 --> 1:37:12.120 movie this year. I've got gigs lined up, you know, 1:37:12.320 --> 1:37:19.240 different parts of North America and Italy, UK, you know, England, Scotland. 1:37:20.200 --> 1:37:22.880 So I'm working away. I'm a working musician, you know, 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:25.360 and I'm grateful to be. You know, I never thought 1:37:25.360 --> 1:37:28.720 I would. I mean, the Kidney, I never dreamed. I 1:37:28.960 --> 1:37:32.000 never dreamed, you know, this kid in college writing poems 1:37:32.040 --> 1:37:35.679 in a library, that I would be, you know, standing 1:37:35.720 --> 1:37:37.960 on a giant statium with Bruce Briegstein, that I would be, 1:37:38.439 --> 1:37:41.160 you know, playing with Lucin to Williams, you know, Richard 1:37:41.200 --> 1:37:43.720 Thompson singing. The last time I opened for Richard. He's 1:37:43.760 --> 1:37:45.280 a dear guy. And I said, he said, what do 1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:46.720 you want to do for a cover? Let's do the 1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:49.479 last time by the Stones listen to what do you 1:37:49.479 --> 1:37:50.800 want to do for a cover? I go, let's do. 1:37:50.840 --> 1:37:52.960 I want to be sedated? So lousten to this, this 1:37:53.080 --> 1:37:54.720 great show, and I got to do it. I want 1:37:54.760 --> 1:37:59.120 to be sedated. That's fun. And so it has up 1:37:59.120 --> 1:38:01.719 been hard? Hell yeah, oh my god. Would I advise 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:05.120 anybody else to do it? No? But having been through 1:38:05.200 --> 1:38:09.320 it and survived it so far, you know, and I 1:38:09.479 --> 1:38:13.200 must say it tastes sweet. I got to places I 1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:16.880 never thought I would get ever never. I mean, my god, 1:38:16.880 --> 1:38:19.320 I mean the who I played with, the who I 1:38:19.400 --> 1:38:24.360 played with, Springsteen, Ringo start two. I put an EP out. 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:27.320 I get a phone call. I met Ringo on Friday night. 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:30.519 Somebody I was just a friend of sometimes took me there. 1:38:30.520 --> 1:38:32.680 I shook his hand at Radio City. I get a 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:35.439 call the next day the person opening up and Monday 1:38:35.520 --> 1:38:37.400 night at Jones Beach is sick. Can you and your 1:38:37.439 --> 1:38:41.599 band play the show? And we did and it was amazing. 1:38:42.160 --> 1:38:44.719 I'm backstage. Check it out. You asked me about the Beatles. 1:38:45.320 --> 1:38:48.280 I'm a beatle freak. Love the Beatles, love the Stones. 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:52.840 So Ringo star. So we get Monday, a June hot night, 1:38:52.920 --> 1:38:55.360 Jones Beach, outside of New York City on Long Island. 1:38:56.000 --> 1:38:58.719 We get there and me and the guys are standing 1:38:58.800 --> 1:39:02.679 back behind the stage, and incomes this bus was Ringo, 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:08.599 Dave Edmunds, Joe Walsh, Timothy B. Schmidt, Zack's Darky Um, 1:39:09.160 --> 1:39:15.560 Dave Edmonds, Uh, Todd what's his name? Todd Rundgren. I 1:39:15.680 --> 1:39:20.080 mean it was a pretty pretty rocking band. And Um 1:39:20.960 --> 1:39:23.479 Ringo walcome back stage, sees me, comes right over to 1:39:23.600 --> 1:39:26.880 us and I mean old school too. Here's two great stories. 1:39:26.960 --> 1:39:30.280 Ringo comes over to me, Are you willie? Then I'll 1:39:30.280 --> 1:39:32.479 go yeah. He goes, thank you for doing it. We're 1:39:32.479 --> 1:39:34.720 happy to have you. You know. He looks, right, are 1:39:34.720 --> 1:39:37.360 these the lads? Then? You know we were all just dying, 1:39:37.600 --> 1:39:40.640 you know? So he goes, so we're sound checking. He 1:39:40.800 --> 1:39:44.080 walks on stage standing like right, you know, ten feet 1:39:44.280 --> 1:39:47.080 looking like what's what's He cared about what the audience 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:50.880 was gonna hear. And so my bass player wasn't there, 1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:54.000 so I had my roadie who didn't play bass. Anyway, 1:39:54.240 --> 1:39:56.639 he probably goes, we'll see we did great. We rocked 1:39:56.680 --> 1:39:59.000 at night, and they said they want us to do 1:39:59.040 --> 1:40:01.639 another half a dozen show. So these are like out 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:06.599 indoor outdoors, six twenty thousand and sixteen thousand capacity places 1:40:07.360 --> 1:40:09.760 and it's it's Ringo for crying out loud. And so 1:40:09.920 --> 1:40:12.320 the last night of the tour, and this just goes 1:40:12.360 --> 1:40:15.519 to show you this is old school. I went out there, 1:40:15.720 --> 1:40:18.680 did my half an hour set, you know, twenty two 1:40:18.720 --> 1:40:22.759 thousand people what twenty thousand, and ring goes up planning. 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:25.439 I saw him before I went downstairs. Two of my 1:40:25.520 --> 1:40:27.680 kids were there, and I said, Ring you know. I 1:40:27.720 --> 1:40:32.080 got a couple of photographs with Ringo and he's on stage. 1:40:32.240 --> 1:40:35.160 He finishes a set with photograph. But all I've got 1:40:35.640 --> 1:40:38.880 is a photograph, and I really, you know, I'm tears 1:40:38.920 --> 1:40:43.040 of my eyes. He comes off before the encores and 1:40:43.120 --> 1:40:45.760 he sees me, and I'm about thirty feet away. I'm 1:40:45.800 --> 1:40:48.760 not near him. Does a bee line, walks right over 1:40:48.840 --> 1:40:51.880 to me. He shakes my hand, he goes he's thank you, Willie, 1:40:52.240 --> 1:40:54.240 big hug. He says, I want to thank you did 1:40:54.280 --> 1:40:56.559 a great job. I want to thank you. He hugged. 1:40:56.560 --> 1:40:58.240 I get a big hug, and he's all wet and 1:40:58.280 --> 1:41:01.800 I'm thinking beetles sweat. I'm covered in beetles web sweat. 1:41:01.840 --> 1:41:04.240 I'm not washing it for another of a month. And 1:41:04.439 --> 1:41:05.920 he says, do you want to you want to come 1:41:05.960 --> 1:41:07.639 and sing? I get by with the help of my friends. 1:41:07.840 --> 1:41:11.120 This all happened, Bob. I'm telling you this happened. I mean, 1:41:11.360 --> 1:41:13.479 I must be still dreaming. So wake me up. When no, 1:41:13.760 --> 1:41:16.760 don't wake me. So I go. Let me get my coat. 1:41:16.840 --> 1:41:19.519 So I run backstage get some ridiculous polka dot jacket 1:41:19.560 --> 1:41:22.040 that I was wearing. I walk on stage and Rick 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:26.240 Danko's on stage, who's Rick was a friend? And Ricos Willie, 1:41:26.280 --> 1:41:28.439 how are you nice? You know? And I'm on mike 1:41:28.520 --> 1:41:31.400 with Nils Lofgren again like I had been with Bruce, 1:41:32.080 --> 1:41:34.200 and Ringo goes and you all know who this is 1:41:34.280 --> 1:41:37.280 and he gives me one of these hand gestures alluding 1:41:37.320 --> 1:41:39.599 to me, and we sang. I get by with little 1:41:39.640 --> 1:41:43.120 help from my friends, which was really bitter sweet for 1:41:43.200 --> 1:41:47.120 me because this was nineteen ninety two and in nineteen 1:41:47.200 --> 1:41:49.960 eighty I was making my second album for arist at 1:41:49.960 --> 1:41:53.559 the Record Plant. Started the album on December fifth. John 1:41:53.640 --> 1:41:55.920 Lennon and Yoko were. I was in Studio B and 1:41:55.960 --> 1:41:58.280 they were in the mix room upstairs doing Walking up 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:03.960 Walking on thin Ice and on a Sunday night. We 1:42:04.080 --> 1:42:07.120 started on a Friday and Tom Ponenzio, my co producer, 1:42:07.280 --> 1:42:09.040 new John, and he said, when do you want to 1:42:09.040 --> 1:42:11.960 meet John? I said, well, let's you know, Monday was 1:42:12.000 --> 1:42:14.240 being spent fast, so I said, let's let's do a 1:42:14.360 --> 1:42:16.120 couple of days and maybe you have some tracks and 1:42:16.400 --> 1:42:18.360 who knows, maybe playing something, or let's let's get some 1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:22.720 work done first Tuesday night. I'll meet him Tuesday. So 1:42:23.200 --> 1:42:27.519 we record Friday night Saturday, Sunday night. It's midnight. Phone 1:42:27.600 --> 1:42:33.120 rings and it's John Lennon's engineer, and he said, John's 1:42:33.120 --> 1:42:36.000 out of strings. Does any you have any guitar strings? 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:40.280 He's tell him my tomponenzio and we go, yeah, we 1:42:40.400 --> 1:42:42.599 got strings. So I got some strings, my lead guitar 1:42:42.680 --> 1:42:44.600 games and strings. And I was going to put a 1:42:44.680 --> 1:42:47.439 note to John thanks for the music. I love you. 1:42:47.880 --> 1:42:49.880 That's too corny. Just send him up. I'll tell him 1:42:49.880 --> 1:42:51.760 when I see him. And this is Sunday night. When 1:42:51.800 --> 1:42:54.240 I see him Tuesday. So we come in the studio 1:42:54.320 --> 1:42:58.360 Monday to work, which is December eighth, nineteen eighty, and 1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:02.560 we started a fourth third and we were recording a 1:43:02.600 --> 1:43:04.840 song called I Can't Get You Off of My Mind. 1:43:05.200 --> 1:43:08.000 And I'm playing the piano that John played often in 1:43:08.080 --> 1:43:14.679 the record plant. And seven thirty John came in with Joko. 1:43:14.760 --> 1:43:19.160 I didn't see him. We didn't know anyway. Ten twenty 1:43:19.200 --> 1:43:22.519 the phone, right PM, the phone rings. Tom Panunzo answers 1:43:22.520 --> 1:43:24.599 the phone. Tom's a great guy. I love him to death, 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:27.080 and he goes, all right, I'll be right out, hangs 1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:29.080 up and he says I'll be right back. We were 1:43:29.120 --> 1:43:31.479 all listening to a playback because we did a couple 1:43:31.520 --> 1:43:34.880 of takes. We were listening back making tweaks talking about 1:43:34.920 --> 1:43:37.680 the arrangement. Tom leaves he didn't say that he was 1:43:37.760 --> 1:43:39.680 going out to meet John by the elevator to get 1:43:39.680 --> 1:43:42.439 an autograph for whoever, the guy that gave him the strings, 1:43:42.520 --> 1:43:45.600 Tom Panuz, who had a buddy in Jersey, Ken was 1:43:45.680 --> 1:43:47.760 his first name, who had bugging him all week to 1:43:47.800 --> 1:43:51.400 get an autograph from John. And so Tom figured, well, 1:43:51.760 --> 1:43:53.920 Tom knew John, he'd worked with them before, you know, 1:43:54.000 --> 1:43:56.640 they were friends, and so he called and says, Hey, 1:43:56.760 --> 1:43:58.720 the guy who gave you the strings, whose name is Ken, 1:43:59.200 --> 1:44:01.200 last night, would to get an autograph of John? Could 1:44:01.240 --> 1:44:04.280 John give an autograph? So the phone call was the engineer, 1:44:04.360 --> 1:44:06.960 Saint John's coming down in five minutes. He'll give you 1:44:07.000 --> 1:44:10.160 the autograph. Then, so Tom goes out to meet him. 1:44:10.160 --> 1:44:11.639 He didn't tell us because we would have all wanted 1:44:11.680 --> 1:44:13.960 to go out to the elevator. He goes out to 1:44:14.000 --> 1:44:17.160 the elevator, sees John a big hug. John signs an 1:44:17.160 --> 1:44:22.719 autograph and says, to Ken, who strung me along? Love piece, 1:44:23.120 --> 1:44:26.080 piece and love John. John Lennon drew a picture of 1:44:26.120 --> 1:44:29.920 his face and Tom. He walked out into it to 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:33.240 his car, and five minutes later he was murdered. The 1:44:33.360 --> 1:44:35.920 last autograph, the last thing he played was on guitar 1:44:36.000 --> 1:44:38.759 strung strings that we sent up, and all last autograph 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:41.400 was to the guy who's sent up the strings. And 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:44.920 we get a phone call and Tom comes walking back 1:44:44.960 --> 1:44:48.600 in the studio fifteen minutes after he walked out, and 1:44:48.760 --> 1:44:51.880 he's goes, somebody just shot John. And the band and 1:44:51.960 --> 1:44:53.800 I were listening to a playback and I said, John, 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:55.920 John who, Because you know, I didn't know what that 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:58.160 meant is John Lennon? I go, what what do he 1:44:58.200 --> 1:44:59.760 means somebody? And I thought, well, maybe he got shot 1:44:59.800 --> 1:45:03.080 in the and you know, and sure enough the phone 1:45:03.120 --> 1:45:07.639 rings front desk and David Geffen and he said, John 1:45:07.720 --> 1:45:09.679 Lennon's all right. I just got a call from Yoko's 1:45:09.840 --> 1:45:12.000 best friend who said John's on his way to the hospital. 1:45:12.920 --> 1:45:15.200 And now no he left ten minutes ago or whatever, 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:17.200 you know. In the phone running off the hook, we 1:45:17.240 --> 1:45:20.439 couldn't record. You know, I heard my dear drummer J 1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:23.160 D Dorry. I heard crying in a corner behind the doors, 1:45:23.240 --> 1:45:26.120 crying his eyes out. You know, I'll cry, I I 1:45:26.200 --> 1:45:29.160 gotta stop first, I cry thinking about it. So we 1:45:29.240 --> 1:45:31.600 went we went out to the bar and went to 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:34.400 a bar and we drank the night away. And the 1:45:34.560 --> 1:45:39.360 next day we'll get to the studio and the record 1:45:39.400 --> 1:45:43.200 Plan had hired uh a bodyguard for John when he 1:45:43.240 --> 1:45:47.519 was there. His name was Bobby, six feet six, three 1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:51.280 hundred pounds, big guy, very nice guy. I would I'm 1:45:51.320 --> 1:45:53.439 a little guy, and I would like challenge him to 1:45:53.439 --> 1:45:55.639 a fight, you know, just clown around. We were friends 1:45:56.280 --> 1:45:59.920 even just after a few days, and he was broke 1:46:00.040 --> 1:46:04.200 and hearted. He said what happened was that they had 1:46:04.240 --> 1:46:08.080 just mixed Walking on Thin Ice. He said, John was 1:46:08.120 --> 1:46:11.640 in the greatest mood. I mean, I choked up. You've 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:14.160 been thinking about this, but he said, John was in 1:46:14.240 --> 1:46:17.320 the greatest mood. You said, they just mixed a song 1:46:17.360 --> 1:46:18.559 him that he thought was going to be a hit 1:46:18.600 --> 1:46:21.320 for Yoko Walking on Thin Ice. And if you listen 1:46:21.360 --> 1:46:23.559 to the guitar plan on that it's the most searing, 1:46:24.560 --> 1:46:29.240 gut ripping guitar and Double Fantasy was number one. The 1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:32.120 press were finally given us and John was getting some 1:46:32.240 --> 1:46:35.280 respect from the press. He was in great spirits, so 1:46:35.360 --> 1:46:38.559 he says to Bobby, Bobby told us the next day, Hey, Bobby, 1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:41.719 let's he put his arm around him. No, he said, Bobby, 1:46:41.760 --> 1:46:44.840 let's go to dinner and celebrate, you know. And Bobby said, 1:46:44.880 --> 1:46:46.960 I'm sick to my stomach. So John put his arm 1:46:47.000 --> 1:46:48.719 around him and says, oh, you go home. Don't worry, 1:46:48.960 --> 1:46:52.120 you go home. We'll go celebrate another night. So instead 1:46:52.160 --> 1:46:54.360 of an agat came downstairs, John got in the car, 1:46:55.200 --> 1:47:00.439 you know, Uh, signed the autograph Componenzio down stairs on 1:47:00.479 --> 1:47:03.320 the main floor, walked out in the car, went home, 1:47:04.240 --> 1:47:08.439 got shot, and had he not been sick, they had 1:47:08.479 --> 1:47:11.160 gone to dinner, the car would have taken them to 1:47:11.640 --> 1:47:13.880 the Dakota where Bobby would have gotten out of the 1:47:13.880 --> 1:47:16.920 car with John. Who knows it's it's moot now, but 1:47:17.080 --> 1:47:20.040 that happened. So it's yeah, it makes me choke up. 1:47:20.120 --> 1:47:24.640 It's like, yeah, if John Lennon was alive, could you imagine? No? 1:47:24.800 --> 1:47:28.479 I can't. But just stopping for one second, you're are 1:47:28.560 --> 1:47:34.599 you died? Intelligent, very verbal person. How come you don't 1:47:34.680 --> 1:47:37.040 do a one man show where you tell all these 1:47:37.160 --> 1:47:42.719 stories starting off Broadway? Well, you know what I'm thinking. 1:47:44.080 --> 1:47:46.920 There's this documentary and I've seen a bit of it. 1:47:47.720 --> 1:47:50.200 It could be good. I mean, it could be good. 1:47:50.439 --> 1:47:53.160 There's a lot of well long people in it. But 1:47:53.280 --> 1:47:55.720 that's not enough. You know, you know what my dad 1:47:55.800 --> 1:47:58.960 steals and shot my father. Isn't it us talking telling? 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:02.280 He's telling stories. We're going to finish it this year, 1:48:03.000 --> 1:48:05.680 and I'm hoping that that can make enough noise. You 1:48:05.800 --> 1:48:11.439 know where you can raise you know, uh, raise the 1:48:11.600 --> 1:48:13.840 level of the kind of places I can play, raise interest, 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:17.640 you know, let me sell a catalog or whatever. And 1:48:18.040 --> 1:48:19.560 but that's an idea. I didn't think about that. I 1:48:19.600 --> 1:48:21.040 don't know if I could do that night after night. 1:48:21.120 --> 1:48:23.719 I don't think the same I do. I do solo 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:26.439 shows more often now. You know, it's like Springsteen. It's 1:48:26.479 --> 1:48:29.560 not exactly the same every night. You don't have to 1:48:29.640 --> 1:48:33.280 tell the exactly the same stories. But you know, you're 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:37.280 you're there. You talk about Buffalo, and you strum a 1:48:37.360 --> 1:48:41.760 few of the songs that you that you heard growing up. 1:48:41.880 --> 1:48:44.479 You do a little satisfaction, do a little last time 1:48:45.080 --> 1:48:48.800 you tell your stories. I could listen to you talk 1:48:48.880 --> 1:48:53.120 all night. Oh well, you know, seriously, a lot of 1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:57.040 people are boring or do self congratulatory. I mean, you've survived, 1:48:57.600 --> 1:49:00.560 I've really struggled myself. I know what this struggle is. 1:49:01.080 --> 1:49:03.920 My ex wife left while I was struggling too. I mean, 1:49:04.000 --> 1:49:08.040 you know that was a big part. There's no fucking money. Yeah, 1:49:08.400 --> 1:49:13.000 you know, most people give up. Everybody told you to 1:49:13.040 --> 1:49:15.960 give up. That's the weirdest thing. I'm too done to 1:49:16.040 --> 1:49:18.959 know better to give up, right, you know, it's basically 1:49:19.040 --> 1:49:24.839 an inner strength. So you know, you have all this stuff, 1:49:25.080 --> 1:49:27.799 and you know, maybe just rejuggle it into a different form, 1:49:28.439 --> 1:49:31.760 and I think it would be a success. Listen, you 1:49:31.920 --> 1:49:36.000 started in one of those hotels like Robuster Point extra plays, 1:49:36.439 --> 1:49:38.600 you get a review, you do it. Maybe you do 1:49:38.680 --> 1:49:41.479 it once a week for you know, six months. I 1:49:41.560 --> 1:49:43.400 think the word of mouth and the reviews would be 1:49:43.479 --> 1:49:46.639 it would start to take off. I really do That's interesting. 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:48.960 I like that idea. That's actually I'm going to think 1:49:49.000 --> 1:49:51.640 about that because I like to play up at a 1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:54.560 piano that main instrument. I could play the piano for 1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:58.120 two hours. I played the guitar. The stories to tell 1:49:59.120 --> 1:50:02.880 I've done thing and seeing things, you know, whether it's 1:50:02.920 --> 1:50:05.639 walking to CBGB's on a summer night, seeing a guy 1:50:05.760 --> 1:50:09.639 on Mulberry and bleaker, homeless guy with his head actually 1:50:09.760 --> 1:50:14.560 on a concrete cinder block as a pillow, and that 1:50:14.680 --> 1:50:16.800 inspired the song Old Men Sleeping on the Bowery on 1:50:16.920 --> 1:50:21.040 my first record, I've seen that. I've seen you Chase Stadium. 1:50:21.080 --> 1:50:25.000 I sung with Little Stephen on Mike singing Twist and 1:50:25.080 --> 1:50:27.880 Shout where the Beatles sang it. You know. I've been 1:50:27.880 --> 1:50:30.040 on Mike at one of Bruce's Christmas shows with Sam 1:50:30.160 --> 1:50:33.880 Moore singing Santa Claus is coming to town. I mean, 1:50:34.600 --> 1:50:36.920 I must be still dreaming from an lst trip in 1:50:36.960 --> 1:50:39.000 the sixties and I just haven't woken up yet, because 1:50:39.040 --> 1:50:41.880 you can't make that stuff up. But I like your idea. 1:50:41.920 --> 1:50:43.600 I'm going to give some thought to that, because I 1:50:43.720 --> 1:50:46.639 love telling stories. You know. I'm not full of myself. 1:50:46.720 --> 1:50:49.320 I love the journey, you know, and I've survived it. 1:50:49.800 --> 1:50:54.000 I'm stronger because of it. How about that? How about that? Absolutely, 1:50:54.080 --> 1:50:57.519 you survived that stuff. Absolutely I have a better person 1:50:58.560 --> 1:51:02.720 having been through these things. And I'm too either too 1:51:02.800 --> 1:51:04.920 dumb to know any better, or there's some serious spit 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:06.840 and grit in my bones. But I want to say 1:51:06.880 --> 1:51:09.960 one thing. I think that my divorce was triggered by 1:51:10.600 --> 1:51:12.960 not by the hardships didn't help, but she had some 1:51:13.040 --> 1:51:14.960 medical issues and thought she was on the way out 1:51:15.400 --> 1:51:18.320 and had they called fight and flight, and just thought 1:51:18.320 --> 1:51:20.760 she was going to die. And you know, she's a doll. 1:51:20.840 --> 1:51:23.559 But she hung in longer than I thought anybody ever would. 1:51:24.360 --> 1:51:27.720 So there was a struggle. Sometimes it's worth it, and 1:51:28.360 --> 1:51:30.200 I wouldn't if I had to do it again, would 1:51:30.200 --> 1:51:33.080 I go through? You know how many years? I moved 1:51:33.120 --> 1:51:35.680 in seventy two to New York, signed a record deal 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:39.040 in seventy eight, record out in eighty eighty one, walked 1:51:39.040 --> 1:51:42.200 away from the business like an idiot, you know, and 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:44.960 put a record, got signed to Columbia Records, put a 1:51:45.040 --> 1:51:48.960 record out in ninety one, Wrong Time, Wrong place, put 1:51:49.000 --> 1:51:51.719 an EP out the next year. Another few years with nothing, 1:51:52.120 --> 1:51:53.920 and then a buddy of mine convinced me, you should 1:51:53.960 --> 1:51:56.000 make your own put it on your own record. People 1:51:56.000 --> 1:51:58.080 are starting to do on your own label. People are 1:51:58.120 --> 1:52:00.960 starting to do that. So I ray some money, borrowed 1:52:01.040 --> 1:52:04.280 some money from a friend, made beautiful Record of the World, 1:52:04.800 --> 1:52:08.439 paid him back, you know, And I've been making records 1:52:08.479 --> 1:52:10.880 on that little label ever since, you know, and it's 1:52:10.960 --> 1:52:15.519 kept me afloat, and I'm I've got stories to tell. 1:52:15.600 --> 1:52:18.439 That's for sure. And you know, my dad has a 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:21.280 real gift of storytelling, you know. And and the movie 1:52:21.280 --> 1:52:24.080 you'll see some of it. It's like, I mean, I 1:52:24.360 --> 1:52:27.240 didn't even more to begin. I was kicked by a chicken. 1:52:27.400 --> 1:52:31.280 That guy, he's something else. How is your health? I'm 1:52:31.360 --> 1:52:34.280 knocking on wood. You know, I've been really lucky because 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:37.479 like when the seventy fifth birthday business this summer, it's like, 1:52:38.520 --> 1:52:40.920 I don't feel my age. I don't feel seventy five. 1:52:41.200 --> 1:52:43.640 You know. I've been very lucky. You know. I had 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:47.960 some melanoma on my face like about fourteen years ago, 1:52:48.080 --> 1:52:50.719 so I go checked my skin checked everybody's six months 1:52:51.479 --> 1:52:54.800 but buying large. I've been lucky, you know. And you 1:52:54.880 --> 1:52:57.400 know I've never had problems with drugs. I like whine 1:52:57.439 --> 1:53:00.479 with my dinner, you know, but I've never I managed 1:53:00.520 --> 1:53:04.040 to stay afloat from being sidetracked by that's that nonsense, 1:53:04.400 --> 1:53:09.000 you know. And I'm small enough and close enough to 1:53:09.080 --> 1:53:12.960 the ground, and I was always pretty well. I was 1:53:13.160 --> 1:53:16.560 always an athlete, you know. So I feel fit. I 1:53:16.760 --> 1:53:19.559 feel still I'm still sharp, you know, well you could 1:53:19.600 --> 1:53:22.960 call it sharp, but I still feel like I'm engaged, 1:53:23.640 --> 1:53:28.960 way engaged to life. And I write these songs because 1:53:29.000 --> 1:53:31.639 they inspire me. They made me I can make sense 1:53:31.680 --> 1:53:33.320 out of something. I put a record out in a 1:53:33.400 --> 1:53:37.360 fall called Wake Up America Steve Earle to do it 1:53:37.439 --> 1:53:40.880 with Steve. You know, I wrote it just I follow 1:53:40.920 --> 1:53:43.960 the news really closely and I care about the world, 1:53:44.400 --> 1:53:46.320 you know, and it's it's like what a place, my God, 1:53:47.320 --> 1:53:50.080 And there's the good, the bad, and the ugly, and 1:53:51.960 --> 1:53:54.479 my songs inspire me when I plan with the band. 1:53:55.439 --> 1:53:58.439 I gave a show in nineteen ninety one and Providence, 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:01.720 Rhode Island, and it's big, huge hall. That capacity was 1:54:01.760 --> 1:54:06.000 twelve hundred. There were twelve people. I'm on Columbia Records. 1:54:06.040 --> 1:54:08.760 There's twelve people. I invited them all on stage at 1:54:08.760 --> 1:54:10.800 the end of It's the same with us. Hey, so 1:54:10.920 --> 1:54:13.160 I've seen the good, bad and ugly, and I must 1:54:13.200 --> 1:54:16.280 say the song's inspire me. And when I play, and 1:54:16.400 --> 1:54:19.720 you could see it on my band, they're inspired. And 1:54:19.840 --> 1:54:22.600 if the audience people leave happier than when they came in. 1:54:22.760 --> 1:54:24.600 How many can't tell you how many times people have 1:54:24.720 --> 1:54:26.960 come up and said, you know, you've signed CDs for 1:54:27.080 --> 1:54:30.240 some people after a show, and oh, somebody my mother 1:54:30.360 --> 1:54:32.400 died six months ago and I've been down. I haven't 1:54:32.400 --> 1:54:33.680 been out. My friends said, oh, you should go to 1:54:33.720 --> 1:54:36.400 a Willie show. You'll feel better. And you know, when 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:39.160 people that makes me feel good. If I can, if 1:54:39.200 --> 1:54:41.760 my music can inspire me and my guys to feel better, 1:54:42.080 --> 1:54:44.240 be able to pay some bills, and an audience could 1:54:44.280 --> 1:54:48.160 come out and feel better. The experience in Buffalo with 1:54:48.240 --> 1:54:51.840 the blizzard, I must say the silver lining was to 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:55.520 see the good side of neighbors, how people can be 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:58.080 good to each other, you know, look out for each other. 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:00.640 I saw that right in the face because this life threatening. 1:55:01.080 --> 1:55:03.120 You know. My dad's one hundred and five, you know, 1:55:03.480 --> 1:55:06.480 and I'm seventy four and my brother's seventy and we're 1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:11.280 a freezing We made it. And anyway, I'm still a believer. 1:55:11.400 --> 1:55:14.320 I guess should say I believe in I always say 1:55:14.320 --> 1:55:16.000 I believe in people. I mean, I know there's some 1:55:16.120 --> 1:55:18.240 nasty customers out there, let's be you know, there's a 1:55:18.320 --> 1:55:20.640 lot of them, but there's also a lot of really 1:55:20.680 --> 1:55:24.800 good people. You know. My politics start like if there's 1:55:24.800 --> 1:55:27.320 a cul de sac and it's a little seven year 1:55:27.360 --> 1:55:29.920 old kid riding his bike in the cul de sac 1:55:30.320 --> 1:55:32.720 and Tucker Carlson's got a house on one side and 1:55:32.800 --> 1:55:35.440 Stephen Colbert on the other side, and the little kid 1:55:35.480 --> 1:55:37.960 gets it back. It's the bike and down he goes. 1:55:38.360 --> 1:55:40.760 I would think that those two guys would come out 1:55:40.760 --> 1:55:42.880 and see what they could do to help. That's where 1:55:42.880 --> 1:55:46.200 my politics start. You know. Call me naive and clearly am, 1:55:47.080 --> 1:55:49.080 but I do believe. I believe in music. I believe 1:55:49.120 --> 1:55:51.760 in the redemptive quality. I really do. I'm on my 1:55:51.800 --> 1:55:54.360 soapbox now, but I do in rock and roll. In music, 1:55:54.440 --> 1:55:59.879 whether it's classical, jazz, blues, swamp boogie woogie, they're salvation 1:56:00.160 --> 1:56:02.800 in it. There can be, you know. So I that's 1:56:02.840 --> 1:56:06.080 the that's the way I've been riding, you know, and 1:56:06.240 --> 1:56:08.880 it's not has been easy. Hell no, oh my god. No. 1:56:09.520 --> 1:56:11.920 You know. When I leave here, I'm gonna go up 1:56:12.280 --> 1:56:14.320 walk up my five flights of stairs. I don't know 1:56:14.320 --> 1:56:15.680 if a gig tonight, so I don't have to carry 1:56:15.720 --> 1:56:17.920 my I have you electric in my bag. But it's 1:56:18.000 --> 1:56:22.600 kept me, it's kept me healthy. Knock on wood anyway, Well, 1:56:22.680 --> 1:56:25.840 hopefully you'll be around here for many more years. Willy. 1:56:25.920 --> 1:56:28.080 I want to thank you for taking this time to 1:56:28.160 --> 1:56:32.440 talk to my audience. You've really been a riveting listen. 1:56:33.760 --> 1:56:36.280 It's been my pleasure. Really, I appreciate you taking the 1:56:36.360 --> 1:56:39.800 time to have me on Bob. You know, I'm I'm 1:56:39.880 --> 1:56:42.880 grateful for the journey that I've had, happy to share it. 1:56:43.320 --> 1:56:47.160 And I believe, and I think people listening, keep the faith, 1:56:47.360 --> 1:56:50.120 do your best. My dad's advice while going through my 1:56:50.200 --> 1:56:53.880 divorce best device I've ever heard, because I didn't need 1:56:53.920 --> 1:56:56.600 for a month. I was really in bad shape back then. 1:56:56.800 --> 1:57:00.240 And he said, look, you can't control with anybody else 1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:03.080 does in this world. The one thing you can't control 1:57:03.560 --> 1:57:06.920 is what you do. Walk a straight line, treat people good, 1:57:07.040 --> 1:57:09.480 you know, right from wrong. And you know he would 1:57:09.480 --> 1:57:11.360 say leave the rest in God's hands because he's a 1:57:11.520 --> 1:57:13.960 very a man of faith and it served him well, 1:57:14.000 --> 1:57:17.080 I must say. But like you know, do the best 1:57:17.120 --> 1:57:19.400 you can really in this world. Just turn pick you 1:57:19.480 --> 1:57:21.200 if your neighbor's down, pick him up if you can. 1:57:21.680 --> 1:57:24.080 But hang in there, do your best and have some 1:57:24.240 --> 1:57:26.960 faith in that. You know, I'm a believer and I'm 1:57:27.360 --> 1:57:29.440 you know, someday I'll drop, you know, And we all 1:57:29.480 --> 1:57:32.000 got what a clinist would say, we all got it coming. 1:57:33.040 --> 1:57:37.520 In that great film unforgiven. Well, I'm alive and i 1:57:37.600 --> 1:57:40.160 want to celebrate it, and that's what I'm I'm trying 1:57:40.160 --> 1:57:42.680 to do my best at so I'm very grateful for 1:57:42.720 --> 1:57:46.000 you to have me on. Thank you for taking the time, Bob. Well, 1:57:46.040 --> 1:57:49.280 you've been great. Till next time. This is Bob left 1:57:49.320 --> 1:57:49.680 sensed