WEBVTT - 8/18/26: Tariff Refunds Boost Corporations, MAGA Sheriffs Revolt On Border Wall, Screens Ruining Education

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody here remember a Liberation Day and Trump randomly announced

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<v Speaker 2>this whole chart of tariffs that we're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>charged on, including some island that only had penguins on

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<v Speaker 2>and it was the whole thing was ultimately struck down

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<v Speaker 2>by the Supreme Court. And so now all of the

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<v Speaker 2>companies that pay those tariffs are coming to the government

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<v Speaker 2>at hand saying, hey, pay us back to put this

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<v Speaker 2>up on the screen wall. Street Journal reports that tariff

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<v Speaker 2>refunds are here and they are turbo charging earning earnings Apple, Nike,

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<v Speaker 2>and FedEx. Are just a few companies recovering big sums

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<v Speaker 2>relatively quickly. Some are passing at least a share on

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<v Speaker 2>to customers. Well that's rather interesting, isn't it. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>got billions of dollars that are changing hands here. Apple

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<v Speaker 2>alone is getting two point two billion dollar tariff refund,

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<v Speaker 2>Nike is getting nine hundred eighty six million FedEx, about

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<v Speaker 2>eight hundred million, Amazon six hundred and forty million, GM

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred million. Have you received any tariff refunds for

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<v Speaker 2>the additional prices that you paid, because, of course, the

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<v Speaker 2>way this worked is yes, the companies paid the tariffs,

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<v Speaker 2>they then passed on much of them. There's been a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of analysis of this. Much of that price Sike

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<v Speaker 2>went straight to you, the consumer. So you do have

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<v Speaker 2>a handful of companies that are saying that they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to provide their customers with refunds. Most of them are

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<v Speaker 2>not consumer facing companies. They're companies that sell to other businesses,

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<v Speaker 2>or it'll be the businesses that get those refunds.

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<v Speaker 4>Down the line.

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<v Speaker 2>But meanwhile, this is really hadding quarterly earnings for these

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<v Speaker 2>large businesses, so as if they weren't already reaching record

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<v Speaker 2>profits in many instances, they're getting even more profitable, profitable

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<v Speaker 2>because of this whole tariff situation.

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<v Speaker 4>Apple said it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Tariff refunds contributed eleven cents to per share earnings in

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<v Speaker 2>the most recent quarter. That's about five percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>quarter's total. Ge Healthcare Tech said tariff refunds had contributed

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen cents of their dollar twenty four share it reported

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<v Speaker 2>in earnings for the quarter end of June thirtieth. Companies

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<v Speaker 2>said it had received one hundred and seven million in

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<v Speaker 2>refunds and expected thirty eight million more. So got to

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<v Speaker 2>love the way that just once again consumers left here

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<v Speaker 2>holding the bag for all of this.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, and by the way, the thing is, have you

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<v Speaker 3>ever needed money from the government. It's right like, if

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<v Speaker 3>you ever overpay your taxes, they.

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<v Speaker 1>Owe you some money. I think I once waited ten months.

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<v Speaker 3>This was rolled out in a matter of months to

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<v Speaker 3>get as much cash from the government's hands back into

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<v Speaker 3>the S and P five hundred fortune five hundred companies

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<v Speaker 3>as quickly as humanly possible. It's kind of like when

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<v Speaker 3>you pay your taxes, they take that money the day

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<v Speaker 3>that you submit it. But if you ever need anything back,

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<v Speaker 3>good luck to you, and it's amazing that whenever it's

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<v Speaker 3>a big company and they need a bunch of money,

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<v Speaker 3>they get it instantaneously. The top line is that forty

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<v Speaker 3>s and p five hundred companies have reported nine point

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<v Speaker 3>six billion in terra free funds over ten billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>By the way, that's not even the most amount that

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<v Speaker 3>is left to be doled out. As of now, one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred and twenty eight billion in refunds being processed and

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<v Speaker 3>a total of one hundred and sixty six billion in

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<v Speaker 3>tariffs have been invalidated under the IEPA Emergence International Emergency

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<v Speaker 3>Economic Powers Act, So there's still billions more dollars that

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<v Speaker 3>are left to flow into the economy. Almost none of

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<v Speaker 3>that is coming back. What's even crazier is how it

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<v Speaker 3>shows that these companies, it's all financial engineering. It's all

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<v Speaker 3>literally based on a tari free fund that they're boosting

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of their bottom line, and we're getting nothing

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<v Speaker 3>from it. I mean, many of these firms, they say

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<v Speaker 3>refunds are dwarfed by the tariffs that they still pay

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<v Speaker 3>is what they claim in some cases. But in general,

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<v Speaker 3>especially for a lot of these technology companies, they are

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<v Speaker 3>not lowering their prices whatsoever. Will actually will really know

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<v Speaker 3>when iPhone. I think iPhone comes out. The new iPhone

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<v Speaker 3>is going to come out next month at the Worldwide

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<v Speaker 3>Developer Conference.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's see what the price is. Yeah, at retail, if

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<v Speaker 1>it's still higher, bullshit? Okay, because you got your refund.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the other thing is they raise prices to reflect

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<v Speaker 2>the tariffs. When the tariffs go away, do they bring

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<v Speaker 2>the prices back down?

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<v Speaker 5>Maybe?

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen any evidence of that. I would like

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<v Speaker 2>to see some statistical analysis of whether or not that

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<v Speaker 2>is happening. But we know when it came to inflation,

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<v Speaker 2>especially the COVID era inflation, they would raise prices not

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<v Speaker 2>only to deal with the inflation of their inputs, they

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<v Speaker 2>would raise it beyond that. And then once inflation goes down,

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<v Speaker 2>they don't lower the prices for you. The prices only

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<v Speaker 2>go one way. And then they're getting their refunds and

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<v Speaker 2>they're still not bringing the prices down, and they're certainly

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<v Speaker 2>not sending, you know, a little kick back to all

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<v Speaker 2>of their customers who help them float this thing up front.

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<v Speaker 4>So it is very illustrative of.

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<v Speaker 2>How our economy seems to work, and also really important

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<v Speaker 2>now because Trump is still holding on to some there's

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<v Speaker 2>some terror regime in place, so it continues to be

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<v Speaker 2>relevant there. But also as we head into another period

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<v Speaker 2>of increased inflation due to the Iran War. You know

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<v Speaker 2>how all of these companies will operate. They will do

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<v Speaker 2>the exact same thing. And that's why if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at trends historical trends, corporate profits as a percent of

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<v Speaker 2>GDP are at an old time high. That means they

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<v Speaker 2>are eating more of the economy and there is less

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<v Speaker 2>left for you. So this is just one more example

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<v Speaker 2>of how even though initially they were you know, pitching

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<v Speaker 2>fit and they're suffering, et cetera, at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the day, now they're getting these TERRF refund checks and

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<v Speaker 2>they're using it to pad their earnings, and you still

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<v Speaker 2>were able to charge you higher price.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just checked.

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<v Speaker 3>So for example, remember because at the time Baby Year

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<v Speaker 3>went sky high with tariff, so I just checked, the

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<v Speaker 3>price of the stroller that I bought is still well

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<v Speaker 3>over one hundred and fifty dollars more today than it

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<v Speaker 3>was at the time I bought it.

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<v Speaker 1>This is fourteen months ago.

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<v Speaker 3>That's so Razoicly, it's not that long ago that I

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<v Speaker 3>bought the stroller. The car seat is also one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>and twenty dollars more than what I bought it for,

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<v Speaker 3>so same thing. They incorporated it in the tariff, but

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<v Speaker 3>the teriff price they just never lowered. So I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>and I've talked about this before, you can't buy a

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<v Speaker 3>used car. I mean, you can if it's on secondhand

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<v Speaker 3>market like in terms of Facebook, Marketplace or something.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not supposed to.

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<v Speaker 3>Buy a used car seat. It's one of the few

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<v Speaker 3>things that you can't recycle in terms of baby gear.

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<v Speaker 3>So new stroller, new cars, a lot of new parents

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<v Speaker 3>these days. You're getting slammed because over ninety percent of

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<v Speaker 3>this stuff is all made in China, and all of

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<v Speaker 3>it was hit initially by tariff. They increased the price.

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<v Speaker 3>Now they're getting the refund. I just checked their website.

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<v Speaker 3>There isn't shit shown up on the website of the stroller.

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<v Speaker 3>And these are all the stroller companies from what I

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<v Speaker 3>can see, there's a website which actually put them side

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<v Speaker 3>by side for where they are. Many of them are

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<v Speaker 3>either one to two to three hundred dollars more than

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<v Speaker 3>they worry. I mean, back in the nineties, that's the

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<v Speaker 3>entire cost of a stroller, not just surprise increase.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, We're there, that's exactly right now, not even then,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's not that long ago then maybe're right. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a term for they call it taking price, and

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<v Speaker 2>it just means like what they can get away with.

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<v Speaker 2>And so they found they could get away with this.

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<v Speaker 2>People accepted the prices because they had no other alternative,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they're going to continue paying forcing you to

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<v Speaker 2>pay those prices even though they no longer have to

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<v Speaker 2>pay the tariff. There are a couple other economic stories that

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<v Speaker 2>we wanted to get in here as well. So as

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<v Speaker 2>prices go up for you and consumer budgets continue to

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<v Speaker 2>be stretched, debt, personal debt reaches new all time high levels,

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<v Speaker 2>let's see what our president is doing to help alleviate

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<v Speaker 2>the burden. He's thinking about reducing capital gains tax. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>this would be overwhelmingly if it would go to who

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<v Speaker 2>the rich, So he's literally this is how out of

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<v Speaker 2>touch this guys.

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<v Speaker 4>It really is incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>He's seeing this as a way to boost his position

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<v Speaker 2>in the midterms by calling for cutting the capital cutting

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<v Speaker 2>the taxes of the rich. He thinks that is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a winning midterm strategy.

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<v Speaker 1>Country club boomers around the world celebrate.

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<v Speaker 2>Your working class billionaire at work here, guys, congratulations.

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<v Speaker 3>Country club men across the United States celebrate this potential.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'll explain it, because it's actually even crazier. Trump

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<v Speaker 3>has expressed interest in indexing capital gains and exemptions for

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<v Speaker 3>homes of sale worth two million dollars or less. So

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<v Speaker 3>you know this is the great This would be the

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<v Speaker 3>greatest boomer tax cut in the history of the United

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<v Speaker 3>States to extend and increase.

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<v Speaker 1>Cap gains up to two million for these people.

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<v Speaker 3>Who probably bought it like a couple hundred thousand, and

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<v Speaker 3>make them pay nothing. In addition to making it, Remember

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<v Speaker 3>who owns the vast majority of these stocks, and who

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<v Speaker 3>are these people doing capital gains sales up to fund

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<v Speaker 3>their lifestyle On the it's all the retired people, rich retirees,

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<v Speaker 3>So those are the people who it would be a

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<v Speaker 3>dramatic cut for. Also, I think it would have a

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<v Speaker 3>cyclical effect where some idiot, your idiot nephew who's a

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<v Speaker 3>day trader on his way to going broke, well, I

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<v Speaker 3>got to do it because capital gains are going down,

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<v Speaker 3>and so he would be even more encouraged to lose

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<v Speaker 3>all of his money. I just saw a steady yesterday

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<v Speaker 3>that it's quote. Day trading is directly correlated with IQ

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<v Speaker 3>and education. So if you are a modern day day

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<v Speaker 3>trader and you do not work for Susquehanna Partners are

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<v Speaker 3>one of these, you're probably an idiot and you should

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<v Speaker 3>probably stop.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Wait, the more likely you are to day trade,

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<v Speaker 2>the lower your IQ is.

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<v Speaker 1>Lower your IQ and lower your education level. So it is.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a direct correlation of education and IQ.

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<v Speaker 4>It makes ten because because it's quick, riginal.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like it is gambling, exactly.

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<v Speaker 6>What it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, so okay. The Steelman argument for the capital

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<v Speaker 2>gains reduction for the two million dollar houses is that

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<v Speaker 2>this would help encourage boomers to sell those homes and

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<v Speaker 2>move and downsize and move. And I'm just thinking, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't think of any other way to accomplish this

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<v Speaker 2>goal than giving them another tax cut, than giving rich

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<v Speaker 2>people even more money. Look at the taxes, like they

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<v Speaker 2>have broken the progressive taxes. It does not exist, especially

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<v Speaker 2>for the actual like ultra wealthy, it does not exist

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<v Speaker 2>for them. But yeah, if you are homeowner, you're already

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<v Speaker 2>getting a much sweeter deal than renters from the tax code.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the only way you can think of to

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<v Speaker 2>try to gently encourage people to downsize and move on

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<v Speaker 2>to these homes is to give them yet another tax cut.

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<v Speaker 2>Like there's got to be another way that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be more effective than what we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, And again, I might be some CPA might come

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<v Speaker 3>after me, but I'm pretty sure that if you're married

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<v Speaker 3>filing jointly, yeah, you're right around. So that's what you're

0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.600
<v Speaker 3>married filing jointly, and if all of your long term

0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.040
<v Speaker 3>gains are if you make less than let's say, withdraw

0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.240
<v Speaker 3>ninety eight thousand dollars from the market, if you're married

0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.720
<v Speaker 3>filing jointly and that's your income, you pay zero dollars

0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.280
<v Speaker 3>in capital gains, you pay nothing. And then even in

0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.719
<v Speaker 3>terms of the capital gain, I don't know if he

0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.600
<v Speaker 3>mentioned short term and long term, because obviously that's a difference,

0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.760
<v Speaker 3>but dropping it down to seven, I mean that would

0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.640
<v Speaker 3>be a massive win. Like these are for people who

0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.880
<v Speaker 3>are extraordinarily wealthy, Like we really can't comprehend how much

0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:32.880
<v Speaker 3>wealth these people are sitting on. I was reading a

0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.480
<v Speaker 3>story about the number of people with five million dollars

0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.120
<v Speaker 3>in their vanguard accounts. Is like millions of people now,

0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 3>like millions of Americans are in the five and the

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.320
<v Speaker 3>ten million range. More power to I'm happy for you, you saved,

0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.600
<v Speaker 3>he retired. I'm not saying we're going to take it,

0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.640
<v Speaker 3>but it's like, fifteen percent ain't all that much to

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.080
<v Speaker 3>ask for whenever we're talking about a cow long term

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.559
<v Speaker 3>capital gain, especially when you and I are sitting here

0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.679
<v Speaker 3>paying i don't know, after tax income rate of something

0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.320
<v Speaker 3>like twenty thirty whatever percent just W two income. And

0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.200
<v Speaker 3>then for average Joe, I mean, especially if you're a

0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.440
<v Speaker 3>normal middle class guy between FIICA and but yeah, between

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.200
<v Speaker 3>FIKA health insurance and the progressive income tax rate and

0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 3>you get your paycheck, especially if you live in New

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 3>York or something like that, you're looking at look sixty

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.680
<v Speaker 3>percent of your money. That's crazy, Yeah, it's crazy.

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 6>No.

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>And and these are the people, by and large, you know,

0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.360
<v Speaker 2>when we're talking about older people with these multimillion dollar

0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.000
<v Speaker 2>homes who benefit the most from the most prosperous for

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the middle class exactly like time period in American history,

0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>so to you know, to pay the capital gains, the

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 2>launch term capital gains, tax on your multimillion dollar residence.

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't seem too much to ask.

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:39.840
<v Speaker 4>But don't worry.

0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 2>It's not only rich people that this administration is looking

0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 2>out for. They're also looking out for money launderers and

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.559
<v Speaker 2>other variety of con artists. Let's put this last piece

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>up on the screen. This is very significant. So it

0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 2>sounds very technical, it's pretty straightforward. Actually, finn Sen is

0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 2>permanently ending beneficial ownership reporting requirement for the frame it

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 2>of millions of small business owners. So previously, when you

0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.560
<v Speaker 2>were setting up a business and LLC something of the sort,

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>you had to report out who actually was the owner

0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 2>of this business. So you couldn't and this is a

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 2>relatively new regulations passed by Congress bipartisan way.

0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 4>They wanted more transparency here.

0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Why because LLCs tend to be used extensively for money

0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>laundering and financial fraud. So you would have all of

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.680
<v Speaker 2>these series of shell companies of various LLCs that would

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.960
<v Speaker 2>hide the true owner, which would end up being some

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>like Russian mobster or something of that nature. Okay, So

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.439
<v Speaker 2>they put this in place to try to crack down

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 2>on that, and by all accounts, it was somewhat successful,

0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and there was a whole registry of who are the

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>actual beneficial owners of these companies, so who actually owns them,

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>who's actually benefiting them. It also comes into play in

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 2>terms of real estate transactions and major cities that become

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 2>the playgrounds not only for global elite, but ways of

0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 2>them laundering money from illicit crimes they're committing around the world. So, anyway,

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Trump decided we're not doing that anymore, at least not

0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 2>for domestic businesses.

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.319
<v Speaker 4>Foreign businesses still have to do it.

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 2>And not only are we not doing that anymore, we

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 2>are going to delete the entire previous registry that existed,

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.319
<v Speaker 2>so that all of the information that was already collected

0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>is now going to be disappeared and impossible for law enforcement,

0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 2>for example, to use to try to crack down on

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 2>various money laundering and other fraud schemes.

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and look, small business guys, I get it. You

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 3>and I had to fill this out. It took me

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 3>an hour.

0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>It was a pain in the ass.

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 2>It's an hour, all right, It's not that big a deal.

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Let's be honest.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 1>It's still annoying. It was annoying. You know, why why

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 1>do they need all this information for me?

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 6>I get it.

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 3>I hear you, I'm with you, the paperwork, all the taxtics,

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 3>it's super annoying. That said, that said, we should consider

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.440
<v Speaker 3>that as small business people, that it's actually us who

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 3>are the most screwed by this type of system because

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 3>predominantly we're mostly the people who actually comply, whereas a

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 3>lot of these loopholes are being used by the old

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 3>rich or shady vehicles to hide around and to move

0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 3>money for beneficial ownership status, specifically to evade the taxes

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 3>which again most of us law abiding small.

0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 1>As most people actually pay.

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 3>And so in the long run, it's actually to our benefit,

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, the more of the the more that I

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 3>looked into it, because you're like, well, by not capturing that,

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.520
<v Speaker 3>you know, you're actually giving them much more.

0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 1>You're basically giving them the.

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 3>Free pass while you go through all the regulatory compliance,

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 3>which most of us do. And I think that's why

0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 3>it really pissed me off, is because looking into it,

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 3>this was quote sold as a victory for common sense

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 3>and for American small business. Like they said, this CTA

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 3>was to unmask domestic shell companies. The problem, though, is

0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 3>that the shell company problem was very real. Part of

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 3>the reason why Congress passed this law in the first place. So, yeah,

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 3>it is ridiculous. And I know that this has been

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 3>a bugaboo for the ultra rich in particular and some

0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 3>small business guys who just don't want to fill out

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 3>any paperwork, but just generally like the cap gains thing.

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 3>And this to me, I was just like, how you've

0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 3>got even the Ken Paxton is out there being like

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 3>twenty five thousand dollars tax deduction for health insurance. You know,

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 3>all these crazy doubling the child tax crit and Trump

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 3>is like, let's have the cap gains rate for boomers.

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:17.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, and last thing on the fraud part, right, this

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 2>is administration that talks a lot about fraud when it's

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 2>convenient for them, when the targets are convenient for them.

0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 2>For example, in Minneapolis, right, Jade Vance is the czar

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 2>of rooting out fraud or whatever DOGE was supposed to

0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>be about rooting out fraud. They found literally there were

0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>no prosecutions that came out of their gutting the federal government.

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 2>It's supposedly to try to root out this kind of fraud.

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 2>The reality is number one, Trump has gone on a

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>pardon spree. Of many high level fraudsters who have ripped

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 2>off Americans to the tune of millions of dollars. And

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 2>not only are they're not having to serve their prison time,

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 2>they're not having to pay back.

0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 4>The people that they defraud.

0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>It is just reading a story about a guy who

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 2>was ripped off by some pyramid scheme. That fraudster was pardon,

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 2>No longer is he going to get that restitution.

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.359
<v Speaker 4>And this is a guy who voted for Trump. Was like,

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 4>what the hell?

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Federal white collar prosecutions are at a forty year low,

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:16.879
<v Speaker 2>So if you're a white collar criminal you can just

0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 2>basically get away with it at this point, especially if

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, slip some money to Magar, to the Trump

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.280
<v Speaker 2>campaign or the ballroom or whatever particular thing he's raising

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 2>money for now and now you have this action which

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.800
<v Speaker 2>blatantly makes it easier to commit fraud and financial crimes.

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.879
<v Speaker 2>So this is not just this isn't a standalone action.

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.440
<v Speaker 2>This is very consistent with a widespread pattern of enabling

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.040
<v Speaker 2>and encouraging frankly white collar crime from this administration.

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all right, let's get to big bend. Sorry, we

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:50.320
<v Speaker 3>film out of order.

0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes Isaac standing.

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 3>By he definitely didn't just record it. Very excited now

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.240
<v Speaker 3>to be joined by friend of the show. Isaac's all.

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 3>He's the founder of tangle News. Great friend of the show.

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:03.879
<v Speaker 3>Good to see you man, Thanks for joining us.

0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.159
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thanks for having me. Always glad to be here, Siger.

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 3>So, Isaac, you I've been at the forefront of highlighting

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 3>the construction of a border wall, or at least that's

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.679
<v Speaker 3>what they're saying that it is that's going down in

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 3>Big Bend National Park. Let's go and put this up

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 3>here on the screen, some of the video of the

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:25.880
<v Speaker 3>destruction in the national Park. This is particularly drawn scrutiny because,

0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.280
<v Speaker 3>as you have pointed out, this is a very low

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:33.679
<v Speaker 3>traffic area, significant amount of destruction to the park is happening.

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.320
<v Speaker 3>In addition, it appears that some Trump contractors are involved.

0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 3>So before we get to the Trump administration pausing construction,

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 3>it appears at the request of the governor of Texas,

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.920
<v Speaker 3>give us the background about what led to this national outcry.

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.159
<v Speaker 7>Yeah sure, so, I mean, as you probably know in

0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.159
<v Speaker 7>your audience find knows, President Trump has promised to build

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 7>a contiguous wall across the southwestern border, and they have

0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.880
<v Speaker 7>made some prime rest in California and Arizona and parts

0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 7>of Texas, and now they're moving down into southwest Texas,

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 7>which is the Big Bend region. So there are plans

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 7>right now for these thirty foot steel ballard walls actually

0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.200
<v Speaker 7>outside the National Park.

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.360
<v Speaker 6>In some of the counties that run into the National

0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 6>Park and are.

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.560
<v Speaker 7>On both sides of the park, they had plans for

0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 7>thirty foot steel ballared walls inside the park. There was

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 7>such an outcry when those plans were released that they

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 7>sort of updated their maps to say, no, actually, we're

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.640
<v Speaker 7>just doing vehicle barriers, which are these four to six

0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.120
<v Speaker 7>foot tall walls and roads, and we're going to put

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.199
<v Speaker 7>some fencing in and some new technology, but we're not

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.479
<v Speaker 7>going to put in these thirty foot steel ballard walls.

0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.160
<v Speaker 7>Then there was a bunch of outcry and rage about that, because,

0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.080
<v Speaker 7>as you mentioned, there are basically no migrants who cross

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.440
<v Speaker 7>through the National Park. There's about one hundred to two

0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 7>hundred a year we're found inside the park. And just

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.959
<v Speaker 7>for context, in a single month in October fiscal year

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 7>twenty twenty five, in the Swanton border sector, there were

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 7>about a thousand migrants who are apprehended. The Swaton border

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 7>sector is the border sector with Canada. It's Vermont and

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:13.240
<v Speaker 7>New Hampshire and parts of Massachusetts. So that's one thousand

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.760
<v Speaker 7>migrants there in Big Ben National Park. In the entire

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:17.880
<v Speaker 7>last fiscal year there were one hundred to two hundred

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.199
<v Speaker 7>migrants who were found in the national parks. So, you

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 7>know people who are outdoorsmen, Republican sheriffs, hunters, local businesses.

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 7>You know, my family lives on the border ive property there.

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 7>My cousins have a river guiding business. They're about to

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.960
<v Speaker 7>be blocked off from the Rio Grand. They won't be

0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 7>able to do tours down the river because there's going

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.159
<v Speaker 7>to be border wall outside the park and fencing in

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.360
<v Speaker 7>vehicle thereas inside the park, cutting off their access.

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.879
<v Speaker 6>So there's been a huge bipartisan outcry.

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.679
<v Speaker 7>And finally yesterday the CBP commissioner said that he was

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.680
<v Speaker 7>pausing construction and heading down to the park to put

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.919
<v Speaker 7>boots on the ground, which I'm grateful for you you

0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.440
<v Speaker 7>would think he would have done that before the construction start,

0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.119
<v Speaker 7>but I'm glad at least for now there's a pause.

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.439
<v Speaker 4>Let's put D two up on the screen.

0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 2>There's a Trump donor that was awarded some of these

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.160
<v Speaker 2>construction contracts within the park.

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 4>What can you tell us about this?

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.119
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so this is a big part of the story

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 7>and something a lot of people are focusing on, which

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:22.119
<v Speaker 7>is this construction company, Barnard Construction, is owned and operated

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.760
<v Speaker 7>by a guy who gave over a million dollars to

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 7>the Trump campaign in twenty twenty four and then got

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:32.160
<v Speaker 7>awarded this one point seven billion dollar contract to bring

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.000
<v Speaker 7>construction of the border wall down to the Big ben region.

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:40.359
<v Speaker 7>And obviously, for anybody who's paying attention, this looks like

0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.199
<v Speaker 7>somebody who just bought a billion dollar grant from the

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.160
<v Speaker 7>President for a border wall that's unnecessary and unwanted in

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 7>this part of the country. So one of the big

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 7>things that we're trying to figure out now is what

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:56.560
<v Speaker 7>they're going to do.

0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 6>With all that money.

0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.920
<v Speaker 7>This CVP says, you know, we're not putting this border wall,

0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.320
<v Speaker 7>this thirty foot tall border wall up in the park,

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 7>but the roads and the pathways that they're constructing in

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.520
<v Speaker 7>the National Park follow the exact same line on the

0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 7>original map that they release showing where the thirty foot

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 7>steel bollered walls were going to be. So I want

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 7>to take the government at its word, but a lot

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.679
<v Speaker 7>of people down in this area are obviously skeptical that

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.679
<v Speaker 7>this is just going to be a road or just

0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 7>going to be some four to six foot tall vehicle barriers.

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 7>A lot of people think they're going to clear this

0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 7>land and then eventually this wall is going to come in,

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 7>and you know, it just looks like a cash grab

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 7>by these contractors who are just taking a bunch of

0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.360
<v Speaker 7>federal money, our tax dollars, to go destroy a national

0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.400
<v Speaker 7>park and then destroy this region outside the park, which

0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.439
<v Speaker 7>it should be said, in the lower forty eight is

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 7>the most pristine, untouched part of the United States. It

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 7>is literally the wild West. Four to five hours from

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.720
<v Speaker 7>the closest airport. You can drive on roads for two

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.720
<v Speaker 7>hours without seeing a single person. It is a treasure

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 7>of you know, America's pastime and especially of Texas, and

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 7>it's why so many tourists go there every year.

0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 6>It's just kind of escape and go off the grid.

0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 7>And now it's that risk of becoming part of the

0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:09.760
<v Speaker 7>big security state.

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, and I want to underscore this is not, you know,

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:16.480
<v Speaker 3>some liberal outcry. The governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, gave

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.439
<v Speaker 3>a press conference yesterday saying there will be no border

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.080
<v Speaker 3>barrier built on Big Ben National Park. It appears like

0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:27.160
<v Speaker 3>what you're talking about. Family members West Texas ranchers and others,

0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:31.439
<v Speaker 3>hardcore Republicans in R plus forty districts are the people

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 3>who are pushing heavily against this. We do have a

0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.520
<v Speaker 3>video of the CBP commissioner talking about the pause.

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:40.239
<v Speaker 1>Let's go ahead and take a listen, guys, we'll get

0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:40.679
<v Speaker 1>your reaction.

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 6>Isaac, I just.

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 5>Landed in Texas headed to Big Ben National Park last night.

0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 5>I put a pause on all activity in.

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.440
<v Speaker 8>That park as far as construction goes, until I.

0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.040
<v Speaker 5>Can get down there and do a personal evaluation, talk

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:58.440
<v Speaker 5>to some stakeholders, talk to local law enforcement in that area,

0:23:58.480 --> 0:23:59.800
<v Speaker 5>and more to follow this.

0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.399
<v Speaker 3>So the pause, obviously, this was you know, from I

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 3>don't know. You tell me, what do you think that

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.679
<v Speaker 3>the eventual outcome was. It seems to me that the

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.240
<v Speaker 3>governor and much of the tech at Texas Agriculture Commissioner,

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.240
<v Speaker 3>many of these other officials seemed to be the ones

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 3>who really pressured the Trump administration on this.

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.840
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Governor added is taking credit for Rodney Scott, the

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:24.080
<v Speaker 7>CBP Commissioner, heading down to Big Ben and pause and construction.

0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:25.639
<v Speaker 6>He said, that he had a conversation with.

0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 7>Him over the weekend and that he believes this is

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.120
<v Speaker 7>a direct consequence of that conversation. He said that publicly,

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 7>so I have no reason to doubt that story. I mean,

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 7>the interesting parts of that video are a the CDP

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 7>commissioner conceding that construction is happening in Big Ben.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.880
<v Speaker 6>We all know this because, as you showed, there's.

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 7>Videos and photos of bulldozers and backos, you know, running

0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 7>across the Big Ben National Park ground.

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.159
<v Speaker 6>But it's worth saying the CDP for the last couple.

0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 7>Of weeks has denied in court and in their public

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 7>statements that any construction was underway. They were saying that

0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.399
<v Speaker 7>they were surveying and assessing the land and hadn't actually

0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.040
<v Speaker 7>broken ground yet, you know, despite the videos going viral online.

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 7>So I think it's notable that he acknowledged the construction

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.439
<v Speaker 7>was real and that he's pausing it. The other thing

0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 7>I'll just say is there is a process for all

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.359
<v Speaker 7>of this, for this kind of thing, you know, in

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 7>national parks and outside national parks, which is, you know,

0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 7>as much as I sometimes loathe government regulation, there are

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:22.879
<v Speaker 7>things like environmental reviews, there are stakeholders who have meetings.

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:24.120
<v Speaker 6>They get to meet with the CBP.

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.960
<v Speaker 7>Business owners say look, we need this access point on

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:29.800
<v Speaker 7>the river, or this piece of private property has.

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 6>This value to so and so economy. They didn't do

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 6>any of that.

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 7>They waived all the environmental laws, they waved all the

0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 7>processes that are normal in this situation, and they just

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.359
<v Speaker 7>started building. And that's why the outcry has been so crazy.

0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:45.159
<v Speaker 7>I mean, people on the border want border security, they

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 7>just want it to be done in a way that's smart.

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 7>And as you mentioned, we have MAGA Sheriff Statius Cleveland,

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 7>who I mean his Twitter feed is literally him posting

0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 7>pictures of migrants he's capturing in the desert and he's

0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:00.600
<v Speaker 7>on CNN, he's going on National News, he's posting on

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:03.160
<v Speaker 7>Twitter about how stupid the border wall in the Big

0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:05.879
<v Speaker 7>ben region is because you don't need it. What you

0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 7>need is technology to be notified that somebody has crossed

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 7>the border, a movement, heat sensors, those sorts of things. Yeah,

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 7>if you bring border wall stuff out there, you're just

0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 7>going to destroy the landscape and build a bunch of

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.000
<v Speaker 7>roads by the way that the cartel and migrants can

0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:22.399
<v Speaker 7>then use to escape into the United States, which is

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:24.439
<v Speaker 7>one of the crazy ironies of this whole story.

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Just put up some flot cameras.

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Y No pointed at us, pointed that way on iron.

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 4>Well, last question for you.

0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I saw something about US seating hundreds of thousands of

0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>acres to Mexico as part of this project.

0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:39.960
<v Speaker 4>What is going on there?

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.879
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, So the story there is pretty simple. All across

0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:48.360
<v Speaker 7>the Rio grand which is the most precious water stores

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.399
<v Speaker 7>in West Texas, there are private properties that all bunt

0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:55.000
<v Speaker 7>the river that are cattle ranchers. They're river guides like

0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 7>my family. They're outfitters who take people on these you know,

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 7>off road journeys or horseback riding or whatever. The map

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:06.719
<v Speaker 7>of the wall is right now lace you know oftentimes

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:09.679
<v Speaker 7>hundreds of yards, if not quarter half a mile in

0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:13.159
<v Speaker 7>from the river on the Texas side. So you can't

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:14.880
<v Speaker 7>just put a wall in the middle of the Rio

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.399
<v Speaker 7>Grande River. It floods the construction being possible. So they

0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 7>have to put the wall on the American side. And

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:23.120
<v Speaker 7>what that means effectively is that they're cutting Americans off

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:25.919
<v Speaker 7>from this critical water source. They're cutting Texans off from

0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 7>this critical water source, and they're putting a bunch of

0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 7>American texting land on the other side of the border wall.

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 7>And so what I did through an assessment of the

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 7>map and putting it into Claude. One of the very

0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 7>few positive use cases I found with AI, by the way,

0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 7>is figuring out how many acres of land is actually

0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:46.320
<v Speaker 7>going to end up on the other side of the

0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 7>thirty foot steel bollered wall according to the DHS maps,

0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 7>and it's about two hundred and eighty thousand acres of

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:54.440
<v Speaker 7>Texas land that's going to be on the opposite side

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.919
<v Speaker 7>of that wall. And once the walls are built, the

0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 7>access points are controlled entirely by the federal government by

0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 7>DHS there. You know, we've had stories in the past

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:07.400
<v Speaker 7>the people who get key codes to get into the river,

0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:09.080
<v Speaker 7>you know, to get through the wall there's like a

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:11.879
<v Speaker 7>gate there, and then they become a target not just

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.480
<v Speaker 7>of the cartel but of locals because they're the person

0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:16.960
<v Speaker 7>with the key code and the access creates all these

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:20.040
<v Speaker 7>crazy dynamics and scary things for these people who own

0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:24.119
<v Speaker 7>this land privately that are facing eminent domain threats to

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.639
<v Speaker 7>have their land taken from the federal government. So you know,

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 7>it's not a sovereignty we're still going to control the

0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:31.920
<v Speaker 7>two hundred and eighty thousand acres of land on the

0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:34.200
<v Speaker 7>other side of the border wall, but private US citizens

0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 7>are going to lose access to it.

0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 6>And for me, that is just an insane thing to.

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:41.760
<v Speaker 7>Do in this moment, is to give away three hundred

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:44.720
<v Speaker 7>thousand acres of precious American land to Mexico, which I

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 7>think is what the administration is doing.

0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:48.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Isaac, you've been at the forefront.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Matthew McConaughey, where are you, man? You know you're all

0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 1>in Texas.

0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:54.719
<v Speaker 3>You got nothing to say.

0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:55.400
<v Speaker 6>I got to say.

0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:59.320
<v Speaker 7>There's a lot of ride or die Texas brand people who.

0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 6>Have not spoken.

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying, you know, we've got our eyes on you.

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no doubt you're sipping beers with Shane Gillis in

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 3>some bullshit soccer game.

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:08.840
<v Speaker 1>You don't have ship to say about Big Ben. Get

0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the fuck out of here, man. You know I don't

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:11.440
<v Speaker 1>want to see you down.

0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to see you when Longhorns gear come

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:15.160
<v Speaker 3>college football season unless you.

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Guys speak up for the Texas silent No, Crystal, this

0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:26.320
<v Speaker 1>is a this is a big deal down in Texas,

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>all right.

0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the stars at night, Thank you very much, Isaac.

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 3>We appreciate you man, thanks for having me man. Very

0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 3>excited now to be joined by Jared Cooney Horvath. He

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:41.480
<v Speaker 3>is the author of The Digital Delusion, a tremendously influential

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 3>book how classroom technology harms our kids learning and how

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 3>to help them thrive again. He is a neuro scientist

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 3>and has extensively studied this issue, and I'm excited to

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 3>talk to him. Jared, thank you so much for joining us.

0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:56.480
<v Speaker 8>Appreciate it, Thank you for having me on.

0:29:56.640 --> 0:29:59.000
<v Speaker 3>So Jared, you have been again one of the leaders

0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 3>in this movement to move technology from the classroom. We

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:05.959
<v Speaker 3>have seen examples of this purveyed both from K through

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 3>twelve all the way up to college. F two guys,

0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:12.480
<v Speaker 3>just the latest example of something we're seeing. College kids

0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 3>are using AI agents to take entire online classes for them,

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 3>logging themselves directly into course management software so they get

0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:23.640
<v Speaker 3>the grade, but they're not actually doing the work. We

0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 3>see cascading in different types of these effects as technology

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.560
<v Speaker 3>has entered the classroom. So big picture, why'd you decide

0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 3>to write this book?

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 1>What data?

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 8>What is spared?

0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:33.880
<v Speaker 6>You? Yeah?

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 8>My background is just in human learning. How do humans learn?

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:39.120
<v Speaker 9>So I've worked with schools for fifteen years on just

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 9>if this is what learning is, what does that mean

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.719
<v Speaker 9>for teaching? What does that mean for students studying and parents?

0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 9>And it was really around COVID. We've known for a

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 9>long time that digital tech wasn't great for learning, but it.

0:30:49.960 --> 0:30:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Was always somewhat peripheral.

0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 9>Until COVID hit, everyone went digital rightly, so you had

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:57.840
<v Speaker 9>to do something. But when COVID ended, no one ripped

0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 9>that band aid off. Everyone stayed heavy digital and kept

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:04.520
<v Speaker 9>pushing forward. And all we've seen is literacy numeracy scores

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.280
<v Speaker 9>really just continue to drop lower and lower. So that's

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 9>why I figure now is the time to just put

0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:11.200
<v Speaker 9>the data out there and say, look, we know that

0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:13.520
<v Speaker 9>tech isn't great for learning, we know why tech isn't

0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 9>good for learning.

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 8>Maybe we make different decisions in schools now.

0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 4>So let's put F three up on the screen.

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 2>This is some of the latest data about the way

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.800
<v Speaker 2>US test scores in most states in the Union have

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 2>been declining. Why US test scores are any generation long decline?

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:32.920
<v Speaker 2>And there's only a handful of states, It's like Mississippi, Hawaii,

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 2>maybe one more that have bucked this trend. Over the

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.720
<v Speaker 2>past decade and a half. You're pointing to the advent

0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 2>of ed tech in the classroom. How do you separate that, though,

0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 2>from there's a lot that's happened over that time period.

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.719
<v Speaker 2>We had a reduction in the No Child Left Behind standards.

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:52.960
<v Speaker 2>We've had the introduction of personal smartphone use outside of

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the classrooms, so kids are on their screens in an

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 2>unstructured way outside of school. So how do you look

0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:01.320
<v Speaker 2>at all You of course had COVID and you pointed

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 2>to the more significant learning loss that occurred during that

0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:07.200
<v Speaker 2>time period. So how do you look at all of

0:32:07.240 --> 0:32:10.800
<v Speaker 2>those things that happen and pinpoint in classroom ed tech

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.560
<v Speaker 2>as the single most significant factor here?

0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 9>Well, this is, to be fair, everything you've just said

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:21.280
<v Speaker 9>completely matters for emotional development, for social development when we

0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 9>just focus on cognition. I think an important thing to

0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:26.560
<v Speaker 9>remember is we're not stuck in the US. We've got

0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 9>data from over ninety countries now over the last about

0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 9>twenty five years from international exams from their own countries

0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:36.880
<v Speaker 9>testing regimes, and what you can see is in each country,

0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 9>as digital technology moves from a peripheral to a central

0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:43.960
<v Speaker 9>feature in education, that's when their scores will start to

0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 9>go down, so it's not tacked to any one year.

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:49.960
<v Speaker 9>It's unique to win schools and in the US as well,

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 9>when those states adopt digital technology, we can.

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 8>Also then go back.

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.840
<v Speaker 9>Since nineteen sixty two, we've been doing academic research which

0:32:56.880 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 9>is causative, directly linking digital tech and LFE learning and

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.360
<v Speaker 9>showing that when a screen enters learning learning compared to

0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 9>say analog methods, tends to go down.

0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 8>And then you can also with COVID, you.

0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:10.960
<v Speaker 9>Can start to see do what we call regression analyzes

0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 9>where you can take the hit of COVID, remove that

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.480
<v Speaker 9>from data sets and say is there anything left remaining?

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 9>Take sees out of the equation, take non classroom tech.

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:24.680
<v Speaker 9>Use be very specific about where you're using UTH statistics,

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 9>and we still find the same thing. But I always say, look,

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.360
<v Speaker 9>the data is one thing, and that's very much in

0:33:30.400 --> 0:33:33.320
<v Speaker 9>our favor, but it's the mechanisms. Once you get down

0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:37.280
<v Speaker 9>to biology, we have better explanations for why tech doesn't

0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 9>work than anyone else does, and that seems to be

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 9>the kind of the ceiling factors. We can kind of

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 9>explain why it's happening, and no one else can really

0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:46.800
<v Speaker 9>do that as well as we can.

0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Can you go into that?

0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:50.080
<v Speaker 3>So, like I think, I in particular, so I'm thirty four,

0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:53.040
<v Speaker 3>so when I was coming through K through twelve, that

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 3>was really the height of every student gets a laptop,

0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 3>the interactive PowerPoint. This was seen as a boon to

0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 3>the teacher in the classroom. I was telling you before

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.680
<v Speaker 3>the segment, my own mother's first professor of early childhood education,

0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 3>a big proponent of educational technology, has some challenging questions.

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 1>She wants me to ask you, but.

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.759
<v Speaker 3>Just generally, what's wrong with that mechanism that you just

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 3>talked about about technology itself as a medium for learning.

0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:23.879
<v Speaker 3>Why isn't it the hope that we thought, let's say,

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 3>twenty years ago.

0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 9>So there's going to be dozens of different mechanisms, but

0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:31.040
<v Speaker 9>let's just stick with kind of the reading one. A

0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 9>big aspect of human memory is spatial location. Where in

0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 9>space does something occur, becomes a massive aspect of our

0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 9>memory for that thing, and ultimately determines how we can

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:45.040
<v Speaker 9>access that information later. Now, think of a book until

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 9>this book here burns into dust. Every word has a clear, rigid, unchanging,

0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 9>three dimensional location till this book disappears. The word saddle

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:54.839
<v Speaker 9>will be ten percent of the way through left page, top,

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.759
<v Speaker 9>left hand side, It ain't going nowhere. That will become

0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:00.400
<v Speaker 9>part of the memory I form and will ultimately determine

0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 9>what I learned from it. So this is why if

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:04.400
<v Speaker 9>you're an avid reader of books, you know, when you

0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:07.479
<v Speaker 9>finish a book, you might not know verbatim everything you read,

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.160
<v Speaker 9>but you will know where in the book everything occurred.

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:11.919
<v Speaker 9>Like there's a quote you're looking for, you can almost

0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:14.759
<v Speaker 9>flip right to it. Now take that same thing to

0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:17.440
<v Speaker 9>a screen. All of a sudden, the words saddle is

0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:18.719
<v Speaker 9>going to start at the bottom.

0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:21.399
<v Speaker 8>Of the screen, pull through the middle, disappear out the top.

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:24.560
<v Speaker 9>There is no three dimensional location, so an entire aspect

0:35:24.600 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 9>of human memory gets dumped. So this is why when

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.520
<v Speaker 9>people read from a screen, at about the four or

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.080
<v Speaker 9>five minute mark, the brain will send you a signal

0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:33.799
<v Speaker 9>saying I'm not getting this, like I don't know where

0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.439
<v Speaker 9>any of this belongs, and we just start skimming rather

0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:37.240
<v Speaker 9>than actually reading.

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:39.200
<v Speaker 8>We just start looking for keywords. Off we go.

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:42.200
<v Speaker 9>So this is one of those easy mechanisms where we

0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:45.160
<v Speaker 9>can say, if you have the exact same thing on

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:48.200
<v Speaker 9>a piece of paper versus a screen, people will remember

0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:50.880
<v Speaker 9>more comprehend better from the piece of paper than the screen,

0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:53.239
<v Speaker 9>just by the way biology and memory works.

0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 6>It's super interesting.

0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 2>So let me get you to respond to what are

0:35:56.880 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the critiques?

0:35:57.480 --> 0:35:57.839
<v Speaker 4>I read?

0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:00.160
<v Speaker 2>This is from chalkbe we can put this up on

0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:03.200
<v Speaker 2>the screen. So they were talking about the way you

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:08.200
<v Speaker 2>analyzed the impact of ed tech specifically, and the writer

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.160
<v Speaker 2>says that the overall impact of ed tech in the

0:36:11.160 --> 0:36:14.520
<v Speaker 2>studies that you cite is actually positive. Horvat says the

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:17.359
<v Speaker 2>effect is too small to justify the use of tech

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:21.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's smaller than the effect of typical classroom instruction.

0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Taking that into account turns the ed tech results negative.

0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 2>He says, this is a key methodological decision on which

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:31.200
<v Speaker 2>your conclusion rusts. But according to Elizabeth Tipton, who's a

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Northwestern University statistician counts herself as an ed tech skeptic,

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:38.200
<v Speaker 2>she says this is not the right approach. Your benchmark,

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:41.440
<v Speaker 2>she says, is wildly unrealistic and carefully designed studies in

0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:44.280
<v Speaker 2>which two groups are both receiving some sort of instruction,

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:48.080
<v Speaker 2>most effects are quite small. In that context, an effect

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:51.440
<v Speaker 2>above zero would be encouraging. So my understanding of this

0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.560
<v Speaker 2>critique is basically, when you just look at the impact

0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:58.400
<v Speaker 2>of ed TECH without comparing it to what would be

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 2>happening if you weren't using the ed tech, the impact

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.160
<v Speaker 2>is either negative or somewhat positive. And so it's your

0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:06.399
<v Speaker 2>choice to say, okay, but instead of the aed tech,

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 2>if we were doing this other instructional method, that the

0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:12.520
<v Speaker 2>learning gains would be more. That leads to the result.

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.239
<v Speaker 2>And again this statistician is saying that this is not

0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:16.880
<v Speaker 2>the right approach to do the study. So what is

0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:18.360
<v Speaker 2>your response to that critique.

0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:23.720
<v Speaker 9>There are multiple ways to run statistics, and I hear everyone,

0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 9>but the point we're trying to make is every educational study.

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 9>Oh so, there's a man named John Hattie down in

0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:34.280
<v Speaker 9>Australia who's looked at over three hundred and fifty thousand

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:37.440
<v Speaker 9>studies in education. Over ninety five percent of them have

0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:42.359
<v Speaker 9>a positive effect. Basically, his argument is everything works and

0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:45.359
<v Speaker 9>this is why, because learning is biological. If you change

0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 9>your hat, a kid will learn. If you sing a song,

0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:49.440
<v Speaker 9>a kid will learn. If you put a kid in

0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:51.279
<v Speaker 9>a closet for a day, take them out, they will

0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.839
<v Speaker 9>come out cognitively more developed than when they went in.

0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 9>Because biologically you can't stop it. So the argument from

0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:59.719
<v Speaker 9>that side of the equation is always we cannot use

0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:03.719
<v Speaker 9>as a baseline and education, otherwise everything goes. So you

0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:06.560
<v Speaker 9>have to have some sort of different baseline in our

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:11.200
<v Speaker 9>field to figure out what's better than average. And in

0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:13.640
<v Speaker 9>his argument, and if you look at any statistician, that

0:38:13.760 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 9>value is going to sit somewhere between point four and

0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.800
<v Speaker 9>point five. Now that number doesn't have to mean anything

0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:22.280
<v Speaker 9>to anyone, just know that ed tech really undershoots that value.

0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:25.240
<v Speaker 9>Whereas things like reading from a book, having a discussion

0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 9>with a teacher, doing a pair and share with your peers,

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.799
<v Speaker 9>those have values way above that. So you get start

0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:33.319
<v Speaker 9>to see when we compare different strategies, yeao, some are

0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:35.600
<v Speaker 9>going to be far better than others. But if you

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 9>can go down to a study where you are comparing

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:41.960
<v Speaker 9>one tool to something without that tool in an equivalent condition,

0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:45.560
<v Speaker 9>you hit what's called a randomized control trial. Now those

0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:49.640
<v Speaker 9>are really really easy to do, not easy, but doable

0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:53.520
<v Speaker 9>in fields like medicine, in fields like physics. They are

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:57.520
<v Speaker 9>almost impossible to do in social level fields like school.

0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:01.400
<v Speaker 9>So imagine you give one school group a bunch of

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 9>laptops and you don't give another school a bunch of laptops,

0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.600
<v Speaker 9>then you can say laptops were better or worse than

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:09.919
<v Speaker 9>no laptops. Right, wrong, Because now we've got to worry

0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 9>about what were the pedagogies each school was using. Were

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 9>these teachers asking kids to recall and these weren't. Were

0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:18.799
<v Speaker 9>these teachers giving homework and these weren't. There are so

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:22.000
<v Speaker 9>many competing variables that when you want to look at

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:24.200
<v Speaker 9>the social level, you have to use these higher level

0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:27.600
<v Speaker 9>values and use more averaging because we just can't drill

0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:31.280
<v Speaker 9>down far enough to the specific random control trial mechanism.

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:31.480
<v Speaker 6>Right.

0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:33.880
<v Speaker 8>So I it sounds like like I'm skirting the issue,

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 8>but it's not.

0:39:34.239 --> 0:39:37.280
<v Speaker 9>It's just a different form of analysis, and social sciences

0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 9>require one more so than the other.

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:42.160
<v Speaker 3>And one of the challenges I saw Jared is he

0:39:42.320 --> 0:39:45.640
<v Speaker 3>right across the west IQ scores and began to fall

0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:48.760
<v Speaker 3>even as time spent in school kept rising. The answer

0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:52.719
<v Speaker 3>lies in the meteorize rise of educational technology. But kind

0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 3>of to come back to Crystal's original point, which is

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:58.759
<v Speaker 3>really impossible to ignore. How do we separate out the

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:02.759
<v Speaker 3>technology from the digital milieu that we swim in as

0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 3>in these children, especially twenty twelve onward are inundated with

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:12.120
<v Speaker 3>screen time at home, either from television on the iPhone,

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:15.799
<v Speaker 3>and then you add educational technology onto that. Why is

0:40:15.840 --> 0:40:19.200
<v Speaker 3>that not a modest effect and a significant effect, Because

0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:21.440
<v Speaker 3>to my eye, what's happening in the home and in

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 3>the rest of the world and all of that general

0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:27.480
<v Speaker 3>screen time, which we know reduces general IQ, should actually

0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:30.800
<v Speaker 3>be more of a significant factor. Or please challenge my

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:32.480
<v Speaker 3>general line of questioning.

0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 8>No, and it absolutely is.

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.720
<v Speaker 9>For general level IQ, it's going to be very difficult

0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:39.400
<v Speaker 9>to parse things out. But we're lucky in school we

0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:41.799
<v Speaker 9>can do these specific measures where we can flat out

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 9>ask kids how often do you use tech at home?

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.040
<v Speaker 9>How often do you use tech for these purposes at home?

0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:49.239
<v Speaker 9>And we can also ask them how often do you

0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:51.480
<v Speaker 9>use tech in schools? How often do you use tech

0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:54.320
<v Speaker 9>for these purposes in schools? So in a lot of

0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:57.360
<v Speaker 9>our data sets are international ones. Anyway we can differentiate

0:40:57.480 --> 0:41:00.239
<v Speaker 9>between those two modes again, account for one on and

0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:02.960
<v Speaker 9>say what's left. And probably the biggest example of that

0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:06.600
<v Speaker 9>would be East Asian countries. Is everyone knows East Aging

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:10.640
<v Speaker 9>countries are highly technological, their economies are based on technology,

0:41:10.680 --> 0:41:13.040
<v Speaker 9>their kids are spending more time on tech for gaming

0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:16.879
<v Speaker 9>purposes than anywhere else. Believe it or not, those are

0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:20.719
<v Speaker 9>or pre COVID were the least tech using countries in

0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:25.720
<v Speaker 9>the world when it came to school Singapore, Japan, China, Korea.

0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.960
<v Speaker 9>These people were not using tech in schools. They said,

0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:31.320
<v Speaker 9>use tech outside of the classroom. But when you're in

0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:34.000
<v Speaker 9>a classroom, we're going with analog methods that we know work.

0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:37.839
<v Speaker 9>And it's no surprise that up until COVID they had

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:41.239
<v Speaker 9>always peaked out on literacy, numeracy, science scores. They were

0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:44.839
<v Speaker 9>always beating everyone else, even though their kids used more

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.080
<v Speaker 9>tech in the real world than kids, say in the US,

0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:50.520
<v Speaker 9>they used less tech in school, and they still saw

0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:52.200
<v Speaker 9>better cognitive growth than we did.

0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:53.799
<v Speaker 2>HOWD do Where I get hung up on some of

0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:57.200
<v Speaker 2>this as a parent in particular, is understandably we tend

0:41:57.239 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 2>to talk about just tech as a broad bucket or

0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 2>just screen time as a broad bucket, where obviously, like

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:07.000
<v Speaker 2>when my kid is just mindlessly scrolling YouTube shorts, that

0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:11.640
<v Speaker 2>is a really terrible brain rotting thing. Whereas to be honest,

0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I think there's an argument that some of the video

0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:16.239
<v Speaker 2>games that they play that require a lot of like

0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.399
<v Speaker 2>language and social interaction and problem solving, et cetera, which

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.919
<v Speaker 2>is what a lot of the East Asian screen time

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:25.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, is centered around. I'm not sure that that's

0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.400
<v Speaker 2>bad for them in terms of brain development, at least

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.440
<v Speaker 2>in some level of reasonable moderation.

0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 4>So how do you think.

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:35.920
<v Speaker 2>About, like you know, the quality of screen to do

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:39.279
<v Speaker 2>you have a hierarchy of which times, which types of

0:42:39.280 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 2>device time are better or worse for kids developing minds?

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:44.080
<v Speaker 8>Yeah?

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:46.319
<v Speaker 9>So again, I won't focus on out of school. So

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:49.120
<v Speaker 9>anytime you use a screen for entertainment letter rip, go

0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:51.920
<v Speaker 9>for it. I'm just talking about straight learning. So in

0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:54.719
<v Speaker 9>our context, when we're talking about digital technology and learning,

0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:59.160
<v Speaker 9>it's any internet connected student facing device that is going

0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.640
<v Speaker 9>to lead them down a path of non learning. But

0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:07.879
<v Speaker 9>if you twisted my arm on the other stuff, you're right.

0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 9>I mean something like video game where you can hear

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:13.280
<v Speaker 9>another person's voice. And I didn't know this till recently,

0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:15.040
<v Speaker 9>but that's what kids are doing. They have headsets on them,

0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:17.600
<v Speaker 9>they're actually talking to other human beings. If you can

0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:20.480
<v Speaker 9>hear another person's voice and you're actually communicating with them,

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:23.719
<v Speaker 9>that's fine. I mean it's not great, but I mean

0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:25.280
<v Speaker 9>go to town with it.

0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:26.800
<v Speaker 8>It's versus like texting.

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 9>So we can do this kind of hierarchy right where

0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.160
<v Speaker 9>if a group of human beings are hanging out together,

0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:34.319
<v Speaker 9>we can measure the type of chemicals that are being

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:38.040
<v Speaker 9>released to demonstrate what kind of social bonding they're showing.

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.160
<v Speaker 9>And as you'd expect, when they're hanging out together, you

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:44.040
<v Speaker 9>get a lot of these social bonding chemicals. When kids

0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 9>are interacting via text, you get none of those social

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 9>bonding chemicals, which is a good sign that text based

0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:54.759
<v Speaker 9>communication isn't recognized as actual social interaction biologically. It's more

0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:56.920
<v Speaker 9>recognized as isolating and threatening, which is one of the

0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:00.400
<v Speaker 9>reasons why kids who use a lot of texting based

0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:03.280
<v Speaker 9>tech like social media and stuff usually have lower scores

0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:06.160
<v Speaker 9>on sense of belonging those things. But if you can

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:08.400
<v Speaker 9>hear someone's voice, so like when we were growing up,

0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:10.040
<v Speaker 9>we used to call each other all the time. You

0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:12.120
<v Speaker 9>have that long chord on the phone, you'd go sneak

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 9>into the pantry. We didn't know it, But when you

0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.640
<v Speaker 9>hear somebody's voice, you can get the same type of

0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:20.560
<v Speaker 9>chemicals you get from social interaction. They're not as strong,

0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.719
<v Speaker 9>but they're definitely there. They're not absent like texting. So

0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:25.640
<v Speaker 9>I'd say, if you had to do a hierarchy'd say, look,

0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:27.600
<v Speaker 9>if you're going to play video games, sit on the

0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:29.480
<v Speaker 9>couch next to the person like we used to do

0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 9>n sixty four. You're going to get the best benefit

0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:33.759
<v Speaker 9>next to that. As long as you can hear people

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:35.399
<v Speaker 9>in your talk new them, that's going to be next

0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:37.239
<v Speaker 9>down the line. And then if you're just gaming by

0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:39.279
<v Speaker 9>yourself quietly, that might be third.

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:40.240
<v Speaker 4>Down theap line right ectly.

0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:41.799
<v Speaker 8>You're right, it's it's kind of how we're using them.

0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:44.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there's also just like a modern reality of

0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:46.960
<v Speaker 2>some of my son's in middle school and you know,

0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 2>he's a gamer, and this is what he and his

0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:51.719
<v Speaker 2>friends do. You know, if I was to tell him,

0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:54.120
<v Speaker 2>like no video games, that would cut him off from

0:44:54.160 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of his social life that he has now,

0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.040
<v Speaker 2>because this is just sort of the reality of the

0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:00.360
<v Speaker 2>world that we live in.

0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 4>So reflect on that.

0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:03.799
<v Speaker 2>But also, you know, how do you and I know

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:07.319
<v Speaker 2>you focus more on tech deployment in school specifically, but

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.680
<v Speaker 2>you've also spoken in thought some about how parents should

0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:13.719
<v Speaker 2>approach technology in their home as well. How do you

0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:18.600
<v Speaker 2>approach that conversation without putting the entire burden on parents

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and shaming them at a time when look, everybody's doing

0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:24.640
<v Speaker 2>their best and we're up against these like multi billion

0:45:24.680 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 2>dollar companies that spend a lot of money trying to

0:45:28.160 --> 0:45:30.960
<v Speaker 2>make their tech addictive and make sure that your kids

0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:32.840
<v Speaker 2>are glued to the screen.

0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:36.279
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, and that's it's one of the hardest things we

0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:40.800
<v Speaker 9>have to face is it's the cigarette problem all again.

0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 9>We're giving something to our kids that we know is dangerous.

0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:46.760
<v Speaker 9>I don't think there's a parent out there that's thinking,

0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 9>you know what, my kid needs more tech. We all

0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.560
<v Speaker 9>kind of know that as soon as they're done with tech,

0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:53.399
<v Speaker 9>we're going to have this half hour window where they're

0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.400
<v Speaker 9>just crazy. They're going to have to get off of that.

0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:58.839
<v Speaker 9>But you're right, it's how they built their social life.

0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 9>We basically lost that battle. So what I tend to

0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:05.720
<v Speaker 9>say with two families when it comes to learning, anything

0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:07.600
<v Speaker 9>that has to do with learning, if it's homework, if

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:09.520
<v Speaker 9>it's a reading, if your kid has to do a worksheet,

0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:14.120
<v Speaker 9>print it out, buy a printer, do everything learning based analog.

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.719
<v Speaker 9>The first thing we have to do is separate the

0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:20.840
<v Speaker 9>screen from learning. Kids view the screen as an entertainment

0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 9>medium and rightly.

0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:22.960
<v Speaker 8>So that is what they do.

0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:25.440
<v Speaker 9>They spend over two thy five hundred hours every single

0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:30.160
<v Speaker 9>year using this machine to rapidly switch between media content.

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:33.600
<v Speaker 9>When we now say now use the same exact tool

0:46:33.680 --> 0:46:37.040
<v Speaker 9>to learn, which requires sustained focus, they can't do it.

0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:38.919
<v Speaker 9>Most of them only make it about six minutes before

0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:40.319
<v Speaker 9>they go right back to Well, I'm just going to

0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:42.759
<v Speaker 9>open this tab. I'll check this out. So anytime it

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:45.680
<v Speaker 9>comes to learning in your house, make it analog by

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 9>a printer, get it out.

0:46:47.200 --> 0:46:50.120
<v Speaker 4>Beyond that, print it out is a very strategy.

0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:52.839
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I would say beyond that too.

0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:56.279
<v Speaker 9>Just start with a tech audit and totally non judgmental

0:46:56.719 --> 0:46:58.960
<v Speaker 9>for all the entertainment based tech. Just spend one or

0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:00.799
<v Speaker 9>two weeks with you and your kid. They do it,

0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:02.920
<v Speaker 9>you do it? How often do you use it? What

0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:05.359
<v Speaker 9>are you using it for? And as a parent, does

0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:07.680
<v Speaker 9>my kids see me use it? What message is that sending.

0:47:08.200 --> 0:47:09.719
<v Speaker 9>Just get a sense of the lay of the land,

0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:12.319
<v Speaker 9>see what's going on, and then make small changes as

0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:14.239
<v Speaker 9>you see fit. If you try and change everything at once,

0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:16.200
<v Speaker 9>it's always going to bomb. It's like trying to change

0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:18.799
<v Speaker 9>your workout regime in one minute. Doesn't work, right, Just

0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:20.799
<v Speaker 9>change one thing. Say maybe next week, let's see if

0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:24.600
<v Speaker 9>we can't shoot for an evening where the family watches

0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:26.960
<v Speaker 9>a movie together instead of does text something like that,

0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:28.560
<v Speaker 9>and then you just build your own values.

0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:29.880
<v Speaker 1>That's my last question, Jared.

0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:31.920
<v Speaker 3>One of the things I love about America, if you

0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:34.240
<v Speaker 3>live in a locality, you can actually have immense impact

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:36.919
<v Speaker 3>in your school system. Like Crystal was telling you, they

0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 3>parents band it together. They're like, hey, we want our

0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:42.360
<v Speaker 3>kids off machines. School board actually did it. So my

0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:44.360
<v Speaker 3>daughter's going to be in school in a few years.

0:47:44.680 --> 0:47:46.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to start going on to the school board meetings.

0:47:46.719 --> 0:47:49.320
<v Speaker 3>What should I start demanding of my school board around

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 3>this conversation about technology? What kind of guidelines if you

0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:54.680
<v Speaker 3>were to design it from scratch, what should I push for?

0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:58.279
<v Speaker 9>Go in first, get a coalition. One parent talking is

0:47:58.280 --> 0:48:01.640
<v Speaker 9>always going to be viewed as a nuisance. Ten parents talking.

0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:03.719
<v Speaker 9>Now we're going to start paying attention at schools. That

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:06.239
<v Speaker 9>just seems to be how it is. Don't go on

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:09.200
<v Speaker 9>the attack. Go with a level of curiosity. If you

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:10.840
<v Speaker 9>go there saying you're doing it wrong, they're going to

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:11.279
<v Speaker 9>push back.

0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:11.960
<v Speaker 8>Nothing happens.

0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:15.520
<v Speaker 9>Say look, do you guys know how much and what

0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:17.360
<v Speaker 9>type of tech is being used in schools, And what

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:19.240
<v Speaker 9>you'll find is ninety percent of the time the answer

0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:21.680
<v Speaker 9>is no, No one tracks this data.

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:23.640
<v Speaker 8>So say, cool, let's just do a tech audit for

0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 8>the next month.

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:27.160
<v Speaker 9>Can you just track what programs are kids using at

0:48:27.160 --> 0:48:29.920
<v Speaker 9>what year level and for how long? And maybe we

0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:32.400
<v Speaker 9>can even just if they have their own iPads that

0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:34.200
<v Speaker 9>they've been given, we can just plug in a program

0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:37.040
<v Speaker 9>that'll do that for us. Then we can say, okay,

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:40.200
<v Speaker 9>where's the data. So once we know where kids are

0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:42.280
<v Speaker 9>using it and they say maybe they use this program

0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:43.799
<v Speaker 9>but not that one, we can say, okay, do we

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 9>have data that that is an effective way of learning?

0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:50.360
<v Speaker 9>And what you'll see is ninety nine percent of ed

0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:53.960
<v Speaker 9>tech tools have no data with them. Ed tech was

0:48:54.000 --> 0:48:56.600
<v Speaker 9>the one field that was never regulated at any level.

0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.360
<v Speaker 9>Your toaster has gone through more clearances than the pros

0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:02.840
<v Speaker 9>we put in front of our kids tomorrow at school.

0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:05.319
<v Speaker 9>So we can just say, cool, what's the data, and

0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:07.520
<v Speaker 9>then we can make it clear that Okay, if there

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.680
<v Speaker 9>is no data, then either we've got to collect it,

0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:12.520
<v Speaker 9>in which case, don't give it to every kid, do

0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:16.040
<v Speaker 9>a small experiment, or b we wait till they collect

0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:19.319
<v Speaker 9>the data improve it to us. If the focus of

0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:21.319
<v Speaker 9>school is learning, then at the end of the day,

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:23.719
<v Speaker 9>every decision we make has to hinge on does this

0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.600
<v Speaker 9>improve learning? And if there is no evidence that it

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:28.399
<v Speaker 9>is doing that, and if there is evidence that it's

0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:30.839
<v Speaker 9>harming on the other side, then by all means we're

0:49:30.840 --> 0:49:32.839
<v Speaker 9>in a good spot to say maybe we pull that back,

0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:35.480
<v Speaker 9>divest a bit until we have better data to say

0:49:35.480 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 9>this is something for our kids.

0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:38.400
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a very smart approach that you just

0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.600
<v Speaker 3>laid out. I hope everybody goes and buys the book,

0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:41.520
<v Speaker 3>engages with the work.

0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, Jar. We really appreciate your time.

0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:45.080
<v Speaker 8>Thank you Jared, Oh, thank you both.

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:47.520
<v Speaker 3>Thank you guys so much for watching. I hope you

0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:50.439
<v Speaker 3>enjoyed it. AI Block, it just went too long. Today

0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:53.200
<v Speaker 3>we're talking with Jared quite a bit, so Crystal and

0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 3>Emily will be doing that tomorrow, so you get a

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:56.959
<v Speaker 3>special trade then and we're about to do the AMA

0:49:57.040 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 3>so we'll see you on a bit.

0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:14.239
<v Speaker 5>Spot. People to British