WEBVTT - How Drag Queens Work 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.440 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know front of House, Stuff 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:13.000 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:17.439 Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Uh, and this 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:22.319 is stuff you should Know. Chucks Chant just a couple 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.239 of drag queens hanging out and chop. We should say 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.080 Chuck and I are both in full drag right now. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.160 That's right. Uh, you did a nice job with the 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.520 the hair, the wig. I like, thank you. You find 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.159 it big. You know you can't get too big if 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.440 you're a drag queen. I'm a little more fishy than glamour. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.519 The lashes are nice, and I noticed, keeping with the 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:49.400 tradition set by Julian Eltinge, your hands are quite feminine. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.880 Oh well, I'm holding them in a very feminine manner. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.840 Well done. Thank you. There powdered just right. The knuckles 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.160 aren't his hair easy usual? And I like your campy drag. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.360 Thank you. I had no idea that your forearms are 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.680 so big and that you had an anchor tattoo. That's right. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:09.720 And if you notice my crotch, ah, you won't notice 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.759 anything smooth as a ken doll. That's right. It's taped 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.120 and tucked. You're wearing a gaff a, so that's really 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.000 all you need to know. I went online and I 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.760 looked up how to how to make a gaff or gaffs. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.039 I was like, I think I understand what this is, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.880 but I need to find out. And I saw a 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.480 YouTube tutorial by a drag queen how to make one 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.280 out of um, like an underwear waist band, like an 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.760 elastic band and a tube sock cut on either end 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.440 so it's open okay, and you just slide the tube 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.800 sock or no, you slide the elastic band through the 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:48.120 open tube sock and uh step into the elastic band, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.160 right because it makes two holes that way sure for 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:58.800 your legs. And then I guess it's everything gets real compressed. Well, uh, 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.120 that's great. I used duct tape. It's a little more uncomfortable. 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:03.960 I'm going to use your method for them for that 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.200 video too, But yeah, it looked like it looked cheap, easy, quick, 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.680 and as comfortable as that kind of thing can be. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.720 So people, if you were not one that reads titles 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.280 to podcasts and you just say, you know, I'm and 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.960 just hear what's going on, we're talking about drag queens 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.760 and it has an interesting history and it's an interesting culture, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.080 and we like to cover those things. So let's do it. Uh, well, 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.960 this is a Conger article, Yes, Kristen Conger from stuff 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.480 Mom Never told You. Yeah, and she did a really 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.200 good job, like kind of tracing the history and like 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.920 really getting into the culture of of drag queens. And um, 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.920 it turns out that there is a considered father of 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.760 drag queens, although he went to great pains to um 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.600 suggests that he wasn't gay. That's because he was totally gay. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.480 I think so, Like I noticed she used the she 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.680 pointed out that he's a bachelor. Yeah. I looked up 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.960 more on that. It was often rumored that he were 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.840 talking about who he mentioned earlier with the hands do 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:07.440 Lean Eltinge Lteinge and uh born William Dalton. And this 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.800 is early twentieth century. And he made a big, big 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.880 name for himself dressing like a lady. Yeah, performing in vaudeville. Um. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.760 He started out, I guess as a Vouldville performer, but 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.760 then he he was in a play called The Fascinating 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.520 Widow in nineteen eleven. Apparently the ladies loved him, loved 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.040 his drag because he was just really good at it. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.239 And um, from there he ended up with he ended 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.760 up on screen in films, sponsorship deals. Yeah, he apparently 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:42.080 was the highest salaried performer of his age. Um, there 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.600 were fan magazines dedicated to him and like dressing up 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.560 as women zines, multiple znes Yeah, at least three. Um 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.480 and uh. He performed for King Edward the Seventh of 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:58.320 the UK. He was delighted by his performance. So this 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.040 guy Julian elt just like making quite a name for himself. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.160 And and again he he went to great links to 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.480 be like, look at me, I'm a guy. See I'm 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.119 smoking cigars and I'm fishing. Yeah, but i'd like, I said, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.080 I looked into it more. And apparently he would. Um, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.280 he would attack people in the audience sometimes when they 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.000 would yell out derogatory terms about his masculinity, and he 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.560 would challenge people to fights and things. And he was 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.640 a lifelong batchelor. So I think that probably meant that 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.200 he was gay, right, which is fine because as a 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.320 cross dresser, you can be gay or straight, doesn't matter. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.000 You might transgender, doesn't matter. Yeah, they're all different stripes 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.239 of people who like to put on the opposite clothes 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.680 of whatever their gender is, because they are kings as 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.160 well and perform on stage. It's just you know, it's fun. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.520 It's a lighthearted, fun thing, right. Well, that's the whole 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.440 point of it. It's supposed to be lighthearted and fun. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.400 It wasn't always though, Um. There was a very long 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.960 period where when men dressed up as women on stage. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.159 It was because women weren't allowed to perform on stage, 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.640 so men were frequently like doing this, uh, straight, very 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.960 seriously in dramas um in Greece. In ancient Greece, it 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.200 was considered dangerous for women to be on stage, and 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.240 they were not allowed to be in any of the 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.840 Greek dramas, which kind of ironic because the Greek theater 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.320 arose out of the Rites of Dionysus, which were performed 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.920 almost exclusively by women. And then but once it was 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.120 established a theater, the member like, thank you for bringing 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.080 this to our attention. No go over there because it's 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.680 too dangerous here right, very interesting, uh. And in the 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.240 Middle Ages, of course, um, the Christian Church chimed in 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.280 and said, you know what, here's what theater is. It is, um, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.160 Bible stories on stage in church church pageants, basically, it's like, oh, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.640 you used to like the theater, We'll get a load 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.880 of this because this is what it is now. Yeah, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:54.800 and women were not allowed to take part in that. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.440 Of course, men would play the parts of women. Uh. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.320 And it wasn't until the seventeenth century and read that 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.720 women finally uh the stage opened up and they were 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.279 allowed to tread the boards. Yeah if uh. In Shakespeare's era, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.280 um men played both roles. And I think what was 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.840 it sixteen sixty that one of the kings in England, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.880 Charles two, Yeah, that sequel. He said, you know what, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.880 let's let the ladies back on stage. But even after that, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.480 this idea of men dressing up as women still continued on. 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.640 And women are actually dressing as men and what they 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:35.360 called breaches roles, but they were breaches. They's pretty straightforward terminology. 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.240 But King Charles called the bluff of all the performers. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.400 He was like, you know what, you don't have to 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.920 dress his women anymore. We'll just let women on stage. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.159 And the guys were like, but but but we fine, 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.600 we really like this. Yeah, And well what happened to 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.480 was men started to play women in a in a 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.080 funnier way and it was more for comedy because they 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.640 wouldn't try to look super feminine. They would try to 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.040 look like a big burly man in address, which is 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.279 sort of like in the Monty Python tradition, like although 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.480 they were no, they weren't exactly they were not fishy 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.400 at all. But uh, we'll get to that that's actually 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.280 a thing. Yeah, fishy drag. Yeah, um, well you might 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.440 as well tell him. Well, I already mentioned it earlier. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.760 I said I'm more fishy than yeah, but I don't 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.000 think they understand. Fishy is going after like the like 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.560 you want people to confuse you for a woman exactly, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.480 like as feminine, as like womanly as possible, as like 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.560 dead on right. Yeah, and then campy is obviously more 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.080 for comedy. You're more masculine looking. And then there's of 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.800 course the glamour drag, which is huge hair and everyone's 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:46.800 eyelashes and glittery dresses. So back to history though, interestingly, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.760 when the West was um loosening restrictions in Japan and 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:55.200 the East, they were tightening them and making men once 0:07:55.240 --> 0:08:01.000 again play the uh onagatta roles. Female impersonators in kabuki productions. 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.320 They're like the ladies cannot do kab any longer. Yeah, 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.560 and that lasted through the nineteenth century in Japan. Yeah, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.160 so it's weird. No, it was like, I guess, if 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.360 you're a woman, you could have been in Japan, and 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.160 then when they closed it down in Japan, you could 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.880 have gone over to England. Bam, I guess, so you're 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.760 all set traveling performer. Um so in in the West 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:28.080 in England in particular, that whole uh King Charles, the 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.920 second bluff that was called where that became eventually the 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.959 idea that if you were dressing in drag on stage, um, 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.679 it was for laughs. You weren't trying to pull off 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.959 being a woman. You're trying to just make fun of 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.480 the juxtaposition of you big burly dude wearing a dress 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.200 and acting as a woman but not doing a very 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.320 good job of it. That gave rise to a type 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.719 of theater called pantomime, and it is the shortened term 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.120 of it is panto, And I guess mime is the 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.680 other half what came out of this. But panto theater 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.839 is like a big burly dudes and drag playing the 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.319 women and then a woman playing like a young male 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.480 who's now being um inducted into the world of sex 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.880 and the adults, you know. Yeah, yeah, And I think 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.360 the first pano play was from see right. Yeah. It 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.800 started out there and then spread over to the United 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.200 States in the form of uh, you know, before movie 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.080 theaters and things like that, America's favorite entertainment was when 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.719 the vaudeville show came through. Sometimes that was your only 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.120 entertainment that are, like shooting at things in your yard. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.320 So it was their favorite and also their most hated 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.800 form of entertainment because that was it. So the Vaudefield 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.240 Act would roll through town and there would uh, you know, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.959 they'll be all kinds of theater and weird performances and 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.040 jugglers and ventriloquists and acrobats and things like that, ban 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:55.079 Joe's and then actually drag performances to the delight of 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.480 families and children, and it was all seen as just 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.920 good fun. There was no um linked to homosexuality at 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.880 the time. At the at the least, America wasn't putting 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:11.200 its hang ups about homosexuality onto drag performances. Yeah. Well, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.280 then that really came about at the turn of the century. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.040 That's when people got a little more like, hey, what's 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.880 going on here? As as gay people came out of 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.280 the close a little bit more and into the forefront 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.439 a little bit more, and we mean in very small steps. Obviously, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.720 back then people like, well, wait a minute, when when 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.360 was this guy's dressing up like ladies all of a sudden, right, 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.840 it was just fun? Or is this like wrong? Right? 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.200 You like this to right? And because of prohibition, uh, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.000 people needed their little speakeasies, their little secret places to 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:46.080 go drink. It also birthed secret places for gay dudes 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.280 to go hang out. Yeah, they we created the first 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.760 gay bars initially, right, which ultimately, in turn about forty 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.400 years later started to give rise to the first discos. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.880 Remember that they grew out a gay bars um and 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.160 there the New York, Chicago, big towns, probably Kansas City 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.480 at the time. San Francisco went through what was called 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.800 a pansy craze not our term um and where basically 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.760 it became like the era of the gay man coming 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.440 out of the closet, Like, there are lots of bars 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.719 to go to, there are lots of nightclubs. There was 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.680 like the first gay culture in the United States really 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.360 started to come about. Yeah, and I remember I've read 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.880 somewhere that um, cocaine used to be a gay drug. Yeah, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.400 they called it um. I'm sorry to say that they 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.520 used to call cocaine fairy dust because it was so 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.920 favored by gay guys around this time. Um, because I 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:40.920 guess you could get it legally. When was this in 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.679 like the fifties or the twenties, maybe the thirties got 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:52.160 yeah interesting. Uh So by the nineteen fifties, this is when, uh, 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.480 there were actual laws against being gay and laws against 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.960 dressing as a woman, and in fact, in New York City, 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.800 which you would think would be super forward thinking. Uh, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.640 in the nineteen fifties, they had a cross dressing law, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.000 or I guess anti cross dressing law that said that you, 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.959 as a man, were legally bound to where no fewer 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.079 than three pieces of male clothing in order to not 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.120 be arrested for being in drag. Right, And this is 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.200 a problem for these gay bars because they frequently had 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.079 drag shows. Um, so I guess I was thinking, like 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.360 you just maybe do like a like a full on 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:34.040 full circle cross dress where you dress as a woman, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.199 dressing as a man as as a woman. Victor Victoria, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.400 he just blew my mind that was Victor of Victoria. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.319 That was the movie, right, and with Julie Andrews, it 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.880 was a woman impersonating a man impersonating a woman. I 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.599 thought that was Burt Reynolds's Julie Andrews. She did a 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:59.120 really good job. You're thinking of deliverance, Yeah, yeah, that 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:05.400 went way different. So. Um, by the time the nineteen 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.640 sixties mid sixties rolled around, there's a congress sites a 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.280 book called mother Camp where they estimated about five hundred 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:20.240 regularly performing drag queens by the by nine. Yeah, it's 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.640 pretty pretty high number for back then. Yeah, I would imagine, 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.920 although I'm sure it's quite a lot more than that now. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.040 But we're talking the sixties and this is a time 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:33.040 when if you were at a gay bar just being 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.440 dressed in drag like, there was a pretty high likelihood 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.120 the cops are gonna come busting down the door and 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.480 take you to jail and probably beat you up for 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.760 being gay. Um. So, yeah, five hundred performing out in 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.280 the open is I would imagine that's a pretty good number. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.880 But at the time there were newer performance that like 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:57.079 Eltnge wanted this. This one guy Bailey, Jim Bailey, who 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.439 apparently did a spot on Judy Garland, and he was 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.079 very adamant about saying, no, I'm not a cross stressor 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.479 I'm not a drag queen. I am a female impersonator. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.599 And he, you know, had a long run in the 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.840 business as such. It was a big distinction for him. Yeah, 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.160 he yeah, he wanted to be called an illusionist. And 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.600 that makes the point that I think he said earlier. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.840 Not everyone who does drag is gay, and not everyone 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.920 who does drag cross dresses in um their off stage life. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.880 But for the most part, if you're gonna put money 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.240 on whether or not a drag queen is is gay, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.680 you can probably bet that they probably are under normal circumstances. Yeah, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.080 I don't think we even mentioned the drag queen where 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.160 that came from? The term, Oh no, we did. That 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:46.920 would have been good in the intro. It would have 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.920 been let's do it here, well, when we were talking 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.400 about theater, it would have been a good one. All right. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:56.600 So the term drag what was the original parlance for 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.200 men dressing in women's clothing? And I didn't see the 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.440 theater term. Yeah, theater term, But I don't know where 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.960 that came from, though I don't either okay, and then queen, 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.160 of course is a is a you know, slur, a 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.680 slur for an effeminate gay man, a drag queen put together. 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.680 You just got the term drag queen. That's right, So 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.560 it's underground. Oh and also we should say transvestite, transsexual 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.880 not really favored terms in the gay community, especially these 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.440 days because uh, you know, up until not that long 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.680 ago in the d s M and possibly still listed 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.600 in the d s M, those are mental disorders. People 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:40.920 who do that are mentally ill according to psychology, which 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.480 is fairly ridiculous. We should encourage people to go listen 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.520 to our what do we call that one? Gender reassignment, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.560 gender reassignment. How's a good one. That's a really good one. Um. So, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.760 in the nineteen sixties things start coming out, people start 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.200 coming out, drag queens start becoming more visible. And then 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.920 of course in ninety nine, I know, we've promised this 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.000 podcast will do it at some point. The famous Stonewall 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.280 riots took place where in June New York City police 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.320 rated the stone Wall in which was run by the 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.800 mafia at the time, and it was New York's only 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.440 gay bar run by the mafia. Yeah. Interesting, um, and 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.920 they fought back, and there was a six day basically 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.000 riot fight going on between cops and these gay guys. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.560 They just said, you know what, we made dress like ladies, 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.840 but we fight like dudes. That's right, We're not gonna 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.360 take it. So pretty much from there, the gay rights 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.160 movement in the US was born. And not even pretty 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.520 much like, yeah, it happened right there, but Conger kind 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.680 of describes the scene that, um, it was a six 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.440 days skirmish with high heel wearing drag queens. Um. But 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.880 you can imagine that that probably was quite a scene, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.840 quite a tableau. Yeah, they should do a movie about that. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.840 They did, so they did. I can't remember what's called 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.320 the documentary documentary. I'm sure there's a bunch of there's 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.360 one before stone Wall or after stone Wall, maybe the 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:09.200 stone Wall during Stonewall, Perry Stonewall. Um. So, in the 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.560 mid nineteen sixties when all this is blossoming, guy named 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:17.359 Jose Julio Saudia Uh in San Francisco. He was Harvey 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.159 Milk was not the first openly gay political candidate in 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.760 San Francisco. It was actually sorry and he founded something 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.000 called the Imperial Court System. UH and it was basically 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.840 a drag community organization to help people out and throw 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:39.480 drag balls. And you know now is philanthropic with HIV 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.240 and AIDS organizations. So they're still around. Yeah, they're bigger 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.120 than ever. Chapters all over the place, all over the place, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.600 different countries, Canada, Mexico. Yeah, but the the Imperial Court 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.879 System was a really big step. Um. This was in 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.400 the mid sixties. I think it was before stone Wall, right, yeah, 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.600 I think so. Um. And this is in the face 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.760 of like crackdowns, getting arrested, getting beat up, really being mistreated, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.680 um and and not having any civil rights. This guy 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.159 forms the Imperial Court System and it's like one of 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.520 the first big steps that unifying not just the drag 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.119 community but the gay community and really kind of provided 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.080 this this basis of this template for you know, integration 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.080 and support with among gays around the country. And I 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.879 guess a way to say, hey, there's a lot of 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.000 other people over here that feel the same way you 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:31.480 do and think the same way you do. And it's 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.000 not just here in San Francisco, is not just here 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:34.960 in New York. They're all over the place. And this 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.040 was one of the first cohesions of that mentality right, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.080 which is a big, big deal. It was, and the 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.760 drag balls that they UM initiated and started became very 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.080 popular within the African American drag community and these days. 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.600 Um Conger described it as like a fraternity system where 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.880 if you're an up and comer and you're a drag queen, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.080 you can get sort of like a sponsor. Am they 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.600 were a father to help you out, show you the ropes. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:04.840 Maybe if you were kicked out of your house by 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.400 your parents because you're not accepted or out of your hometown, 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.000 they'll put you up and find you a place to live. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.040 And you know who else does that? Cindy law her 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.320 does she really? Yeah? She? Uh, I think founded and 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.520 definitely funds like some sort of rescue system at Halfway House. Yeah, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.000 for teens who are kicked out for being gay. Nice, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.080 isn't that? Yeah? She's awesome. I think I told you 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.639 to her Halloween party one year in New York. You 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.320 did not tell me that? Yeah, my friend was. Um 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.199 is a huge fan and like on the inside as 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.320 far as fandom, you know, like she knows who he 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.920 is and uh, he got an invitation to her Halloween 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.280 party at her loft in New York and I went 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:47.320 and it was awesome and I met her and got 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.479 a picture made and that was cool. She was as 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.520 sweet as she could be. Yeah. Yeah, she seems like 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.680 she's like living the personality. Yeah, and boy what a 0:19:54.760 --> 0:20:00.880 party man, I can imagine. Yeah. A couple of years 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.960 ago and Dr John opened for so we were there 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.360 for you know, the Dr John Show too, And when 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.639 Dr John ended, like everyone got up and left and 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.480 then new people came in and sat down for the 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.119 Cyndy Lawbers Show. Yeah, it was a weird mix, but 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.320 that didn't end up mixing. That's like, uh, it was 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.920 cool see both of them, Uh, like Zach Brown opening 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.520 for Dolly Parton, Yeah, something like that. Maybe even maybe 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.840 even weird, like they're both country quote unquote right. All right, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.800 So if you're interested in seeing more about the African 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.359 American drag balls, there's a great documentary, uh called Paris 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.080 Is Burning. Have you seen it? Yeah, I've not seen 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.040 a super entertaining, really good We mentioned drag kings earlier. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.560 That is a thing when they can also dress his men, yeah, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.160 which is not a stretch. Once drag queens were established, 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.280 a guy named Johnny science about what about drag kings 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.439 and bam, there they are. That's right, So let's talk 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.919 about what you need to do, what kind of transformation 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:01.920 needs to take place. I know we kind of hinted 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.280 at it earlier with our jokes about tucking and plucking, 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:11.080 but that's where it starts. And we remarked about your hands. Um, 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:15.280 Julian Eltinge was, um, you'd think, you know, all the 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.840 work goes on the face, but he said, the most 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:18.920 important thing is the hands. Well that was the one 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.240 that he worried about the most. Well you remember that 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.040 seinfeld Man hands. Yeah, well, I mean that makes I 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.320 can imagine it's very distracting if you have a couple 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.320 of chunks of ham. Yeah, you know, and you're acting 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.760 very feminine or whatever. That's weird. Yeah. They went so 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.119 over the top in that episode. How big is like 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:37.880 I'm sure it was like the key grip or something, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:45.560 breaking the bread and stuff in your face. Yeah, so good. Um, 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.359 so all right, so what do you do? You gotta 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:51.480 get the hands powdered, and he said there's certain ways 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.080 of holding them to make them appear to be more dainty. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:55.760 Well he did. I got the impression that he was 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.160 particularly obsessed about this, but he might have big hands. 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.240 Spend like an hour and a half just working on 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.359 the hands. That's just the hands. So you can you 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.760 can guess how long it takes to like do makeup, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.320 because not only are you doing makeup, you have to 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:11.960 do it right, but you have to do it to 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.560 cover up the fact that you're a man. So you 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:16.040 have to like cover up the fact that you're a 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.440 man and then do the makeup as a woman. I imagine. Yeah, 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.520 And I think things really picked up in the seventies 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:23.800 with this as far as really going all out. After 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:29.800 um San Francisco UH drag show collective called the Cockettes. 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:32.480 Apparently they put on a not so great show, and 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:37.520 gore Vidal himself said famously in his review, no talent 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.920 is not enough. So he's like, great, you're drag queens, 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.440 but this is awful. Basically you still gotta like give 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.399 the audience something. Well. They were also not necessarily like 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:50.920