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Speaker 1: Dear listener, this story is going to be a challenge.

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Speaker 1: There is going to be talk of rape, sexual abuse,

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Speaker 1: and domestic violence, and also the circumstances surrounding the death

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Speaker 1: of a child. So take that into consideration.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 3: The State of Texas wants to kill me every day

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Speaker 3: I ask DoD.

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Speaker 1: Why From Fudro Media and pr X, it's let you

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Speaker 1: know us say I'm Maria Josa. Today the State of

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Speaker 1: Texas versus Melissa Lucio, the first Latina to be put

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Speaker 1: on death row in Texas, and the effort to stop

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Speaker 1: her scheduled execution next month. It's early February. A group

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Speaker 1: of protesters is standing on the sidewalk outside the Cameron

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Speaker 1: County Courthouse in Brownsville in South Texas. Back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Melissa Elizabeth Lucio was brought here and

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Speaker 1: what happened inside this building forever changed the lives of

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Speaker 1: the Lucio family.

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Speaker 4: Right from Melissa the execution.

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Speaker 5: Listen to the community, Listen to the people.

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Speaker 1: The people gathered here today are holding black signs with

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Speaker 1: white lettering. They read free Melissa Lucier. They're also carrying

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Speaker 1: a banner with a huge photo of Melissa on it.

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Speaker 1: She's in an off white prison uniform. Melissa looks tired.

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Speaker 1: The wrinkles on her face are distinct. Her dark brown

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Speaker 1: hair is slicked back into a ponytail. Her brown eyes

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Speaker 1: are staring straight ahead. Woman.

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Speaker 6: She's not guilty of the death of my baby sister,

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Speaker 6: Mariah Elizabeth alib This is no, she is not.

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Speaker 1: That's John Vincent Lucio, live streaming the protest on his phone.

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Speaker 1: He's the eldest son of Melissa's fourteen children. Melissa, who

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Speaker 1: today is fifty three years old, is scheduled to die

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Speaker 1: because of the death of her two year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: Mariah Alvarez, fifteen years ago. On the evening of February seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, paramedics were called to Melissa's home

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Speaker 1: because her baby girl was unresponsive. Later, Mariah would be

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Speaker 1: pronounced dead at the hospital. Her body was found covered

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Speaker 1: in bruises.

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Speaker 2: My mother is innocent.

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't be traveling over eight hundred miles Friday, Saturday,

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Speaker 6: Sunday to go to visit my mother, which takes me

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Speaker 6: about eight hours to get there, just to see her

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Speaker 6: for two hours. I would not be doing that for

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Speaker 6: her today. If she wasn't in she is an n

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Speaker 6: SA woman.

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Speaker 1: As if in mourning. John is dressed in all black.

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Speaker 1: His shirt is another sign on the front. It says

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Speaker 1: free Melissa Lucio. He has a shaved head and tattoos

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Speaker 1: that run along both of his arms. He's thirty two

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Speaker 1: years old and his mom has been on death row

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Speaker 1: for almost half of his life. Now he's worried he

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Speaker 1: might lose her forever. On April twenty seven, Melissa Lucio

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Speaker 1: could become the first Latina to be executed by the

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Speaker 1: state of Texas in one hundred and sixty years. John

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Speaker 1: and others are out here today trying to raise awareness

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Speaker 1: about Melissa's story. Their ultimate goal is to save her

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Speaker 1: life before they run out of time.

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Speaker 6: I will be here to fight for her life till

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Speaker 6: the end.

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Speaker 1: John and so many others to this case still have

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Speaker 1: questions about Melissa's trial. In theory, the court system should

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Speaker 1: only punish people who have had a fair trial and

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Speaker 1: when there's no reasonable doubt of guilt. For Melissa's supporters,

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Speaker 1: that is not her case.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I would not sure

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Speaker 6: quote anything my mother. Yes she was the drug abuser,

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Speaker 6: Yes she was neglectful towards us, but never was she

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Speaker 6: abusive towards us.

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Speaker 2: She loved us dearly, she never did hurt us.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in twenty nineteen, the Fifth Circuit Court of

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Speaker 1: Appeals also showed skepticism about the fairness of Melissa's case

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Speaker 1: and opened the door to the possibility of a new trial.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after, though, the court backtrack on its own decision,

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Speaker 1: placing Melissa even closer to being executed. Latino USA producer

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Speaker 1: Renaldo Leanoz Junior is going to pick up the rest

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Speaker 1: of this story from here.

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Speaker 7: It's around lunchtime, and the protest outside of the Cameron

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Speaker 7: County Courthouse that John is at has been going on

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Speaker 7: now for about half an hour. Suddenly, a man in

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Speaker 7: a business suit walks out of the concrete building.

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Speaker 8: A day.

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Speaker 7: Peter Gilman was Melissa Lucio's first defense attorney back in

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Speaker 7: two thousand and seven, and John is still pretty upset

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Speaker 7: with the way he handled his mom's case. The year

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Speaker 7: after Melissa's conviction, Gilman joined the DA's office, the same

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Speaker 7: office that has been fighting to keep Melissa on death row. Today,

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Speaker 7: Gilman is an assistant District attorney in Cameron County John

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Speaker 7: follows him down the block a few steps, but the

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Speaker 7: lawyer just ignores him.

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Speaker 9: What you, buddy?

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Speaker 8: What?

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Speaker 7: A little later, another familiar person steps out of the courthouse.

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Speaker 7: This time it's Louise V. Science, the current district attorney

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Speaker 7: for the county. He also played a key role in

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Speaker 7: Melissa's trial. He was a judge who arranged her and

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Speaker 7: said a two million dollar bond for her.

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Speaker 6: You were her judge, Louise sides knew who this woman is.

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Speaker 2: You know the corruption that took place.

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Speaker 7: Like Gilman, Science also ignores John. This is the first

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Speaker 7: time John has seen these men in person in almost

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Speaker 7: fifteen years. Back then, John was just a teenager. Today

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Speaker 7: he's a husband and works as a barber in the

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Speaker 7: Rio Grande Valley.

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Speaker 2: It's it's sad.

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Speaker 6: It's sad because, I mean, they they're not trying to

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Speaker 6: help an innocent woman on dance Row.

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Speaker 7: There are a lot of twists and turns in Melissa

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Speaker 7: Lucio's story, and we're going to get into most of

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Speaker 7: them today, including a political corruption scandal. But let's start

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Speaker 7: with the documentary that premiered in twenty twenty. The film.

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Speaker 7: Protesters kept chanting about WhatsUp?

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Speaker 4: Whatched?

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Speaker 8: Up.

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Speaker 7: It's called The State of Texas Versus Melissa, and it's

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Speaker 7: a deep dive investigation into her case.

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Speaker 3: I've lost twelve years without my children. Some of them

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Speaker 3: have memories of me and some of them don't. It's

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Speaker 3: been very hard to wake up, bitch morning and not

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Speaker 3: not hear them.

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Speaker 7: What you just heard is one of Melissa's interviews from

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Speaker 7: that documentary. Sabrina van Tassel, a French American journalist and filmmaker,

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Speaker 7: directed it.

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Speaker 5: I really did not know much about her case, apart

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Speaker 5: from the fact that you know, she was there because

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Speaker 5: she supposedly had killed her daughter. It was supposedly a

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Speaker 5: horrific child abuse case, and that was pretty much it.

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Speaker 7: Sabrina tried to find out more so in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 7: she got in contact with Melissa's family and she has

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Speaker 7: kept in touch with them ever since.

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Speaker 5: Immediately when I met her sister, she said to me,

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Speaker 5: it was an accident, you know, and Melissa she was

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Speaker 5: never violent to it, you know, with any of her children.

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Speaker 7: Backing Melissa's sister, it's the fact that Melissa had no

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Speaker 7: documented history of being violent, not towards her kids or

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Speaker 7: towards anyone, but life wasn't perfect for Melissa and her

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Speaker 7: children either. In two thousand and four, Child Protective Services

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Speaker 7: or CPS, took her kids away following reports of parental neglect.

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Speaker 7: Melissa was using drugs, and for a while they were homeless.

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Speaker 7: Two years later, though, after securing an apartment going to

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Speaker 7: substance abuse counseling and parenting courses, Melissa was reunited with

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Speaker 7: nine of her underage children, including Mariah, the youngest. After

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Speaker 7: meeting with Melissa's family, Sabrina went to see Melissa herself

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Speaker 7: on death row.

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Speaker 5: I met Melissa the next day, and everything in me,

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Speaker 5: like every single cell in my body was telling me,

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Speaker 5: this just cannot be. I don't believe it. You know,

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Speaker 5: there's just much more to this story.

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Speaker 7: Sabrina began digging deeper.

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Speaker 5: I mean I basically read everything. I read every court record,

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Speaker 5: just all the CPS files, the trials, everything, everything, all

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Speaker 5: the appeals, and discovered that not only is there no

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Speaker 5: not one single witness in this case, she just got

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Speaker 5: sentenced to death solely because of her chorused confession.

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Speaker 10: Today's date is too eighteen, two thousand and seven. It

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Speaker 10: is three am. We are here at the Harlingo Police Department.

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Speaker 10: I am here with Melissa Lucia. My name is Victor Escoone.

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Speaker 7: That's a clip of the interrogation that Sabrina just referenced.

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Speaker 7: The video, which she included in her documentary, was the

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Speaker 7: core of the prosecution's case against Melissa.

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Speaker 11: You know something is wrong.

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Speaker 4: No I don't.

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Speaker 11: You know something is wrong?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't.

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Speaker 11: If I bring you all those pictures, if I beat

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Speaker 11: you half to death like that little child was beat

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Speaker 11: I bet you die too.

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Speaker 4: So why didn't I beat my daughter?

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Speaker 1: Sir?

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Speaker 4: No, not that cruel to my children?

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Speaker 11: One of those brutes on your little child.

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Speaker 7: Melissa was taken into custody just hours after the death

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Speaker 7: of Mariah.

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Speaker 8: The police take this extremely vulnerable woman and begin to

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Speaker 8: interrogate her the night that her toddler daughter died, and

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Speaker 8: they continue to interrogate her, use it techniques that are

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Speaker 8: known to be coercive, that are known to be unreliable.

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Speaker 8: They gaslight her, they lie to her.

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Speaker 7: That's Federal public defender T Vone Chardle in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 7: he was appointed to Melissa's case. In the video of

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Speaker 7: her interrogation, you can see Melissa slouched over. She's quiet,

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Speaker 7: just answering when questioned no attorneys present on her behalf.

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Speaker 11: This is your chance to set it's strict because right

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Speaker 11: now it looks like capital mortar. Right now, it looks

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Speaker 11: like you're a cold blood of killing. Now were you

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Speaker 11: a cold blood of killer Elegana or were you a

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Speaker 11: frustrated mother who just took.

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Speaker 2: It out on it.

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Speaker 7: Melissa told the officers that Mariah fell down the stairs

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Speaker 7: two days prior, but they didn't believe her. They continued

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Speaker 7: to push her to admit that she had beaten Mariah

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Speaker 7: to death. A little past one am, after three hours

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Speaker 7: of being pressed with no food, no sleep, and several

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Speaker 7: weeks pregnant, Melissa gave in.

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Speaker 11: Okay with Melissa, let's just get it.

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Speaker 2: I'm responsible for it.

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Speaker 7: Okay, Melissa said, I'm responsible for it. The ranger then

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Speaker 7: pushed her even further, and.

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Speaker 10: This is just what spanking mm hm our calvary, what's

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Speaker 10: up from?

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Speaker 7: Just After going back and forth for more than an hour,

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Speaker 7: Melissa accept she hit Maria in several of the places

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Speaker 7: where Maria's body had bruises, but she insists that she

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Speaker 7: didn't kill her daughter, and what happened?

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Speaker 3: What was it?

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Speaker 2: Just hand?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know how she died.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Listen, no I didn't.

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Speaker 3: We're doing so good.

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Speaker 2: No I didn't, so I would mar it to that?

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Speaker 2: What caused her to die?

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Speaker 8: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Other than just getting.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: The entire interrogation lasted more than five hours. A little

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Speaker 7: after three am, the ranger asked Melissa one final.

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Speaker 2: Question, through your heads.

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Speaker 8: The shoes, maybe it better.

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Speaker 7: In the eyes of the prosecution, Melissa had confessed to

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Speaker 7: murder and they ran with that. On top of being

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Speaker 7: subject to a very forceful interrogation with no legal counsel

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Speaker 7: by her side. Ti Vone, her current lawyer, believes Melissa

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Speaker 7: took responsibility for Maria's bruises because she's been through a lot.

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Speaker 8: The state had to find some way to pin this

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Speaker 8: child's death on somebody, and what they did was they

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Speaker 8: selected a vulnerable person, Melissa Lucio, who is a survivor

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Speaker 8: of childhood sexual abuse.

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Speaker 12: She had two adult men in her life who were

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Speaker 12: victimizing her regularly, starting at the age of six.

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Speaker 7: That's Sandra Babcock, a professor at Cornell Law School in

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Speaker 7: New York. She specializes in cases of women facing the

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Speaker 7: death penalty around the world and has been advocating for Melissa.

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Speaker 12: She's raped again at the age of nine by a

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Speaker 12: stranger in her apartment building, and then after she marries

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Speaker 12: at age sixteen, she enters into a violent and abusive

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Speaker 12: partnership with a man who ultimately threatens to kill her.

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Speaker 12: Her second partner, who, by the way, was only given

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Speaker 12: a four year sentence compared to Melissa's death sentence. He

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Speaker 12: is somebody who beat her regularly. He controlled her movements,

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Speaker 12: He raped her repeatedly. He would pin her against the wall.

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Speaker 12: The children had to intervene to stop the violence. This

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Speaker 12: is the kind of repeated violence that causes a person

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Speaker 12: to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, and that's why

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Speaker 12: Melissa herself became mentally ill and developed these symptoms of

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Speaker 12: numbing and dissociation that helped her to cope.

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Speaker 7: The police interpreted Melissa's behavior as that of a cold

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Speaker 7: blooded murderer. For Sandra Tivonne and others, it was PTSD. Likewise,

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Speaker 7: an independent social worker who reviewed Melissa's history of abuse

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Speaker 7: and the taped interrogation on behalf of the defense, identified

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Speaker 7: a pattern of behavior in Melissa which made her more

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Speaker 7: likely to cave into male figures of authority. Melissa was

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Speaker 7: charged with quote intentionally and knowingly causing Mariah's death by

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Speaker 7: anti quote again, striking, shaking, or throwing her. Before facing trial,

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Speaker 7: she was offered a thirty year prison sentence if she

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Speaker 7: pleaded guilty, but Melissa turned it down, insisting that she

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Speaker 7: didn't kill her daughter. When the trial began a year later,

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Speaker 7: not only was the recorded interrogation of Melissa presented as evidence.

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Speaker 7: To Voone says, this ranger who questioned Melissa was then

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Speaker 7: allowed to testify for the prosecution that he could tell

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Speaker 7: by her demeanor, by the way her shoulders were slumped,

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Speaker 7: by the way her head was bowed, by the expression

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Speaker 7: on her face, that she was lying when she claimed

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Speaker 7: that she hadn't beaten Mariah. The ranger was not a

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Speaker 7: trained psychologist. Melissa's defense tried to present the testimony of

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Speaker 7: the independent social worker, who had over twenty years in

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Speaker 7: clinical training and experience in human behavior, to explain why

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Speaker 7: Melissa would have taken responsibility for something that she didn't do,

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Speaker 7: But Tavone says the judge ruled that the social worker

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Speaker 7: was quote not qualified to testify. Then, he says, Melissa's

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Speaker 7: defense try to present the expert opinion of an independent

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Speaker 7: psychologist who also reviewed the video.

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Speaker 8: And he actually comes to the same conclusion that she

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Speaker 8: is a battered woman, a survivor of traumatic abuse, and

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Speaker 8: that what you're seeing on this video is a woman

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Speaker 8: who is dissociating, a woman who has post traumatic stress

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Speaker 8: disorder and is really just trying to survive this interrogation

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Speaker 8: and is not, in fact trying to hide anything, or

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Speaker 8: isn't necessarily trying to hide anything. At that point, the

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Speaker 8: judge says all of this evidence is irrelevant.

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Speaker 7: On July eighth of two thousand and eight, after a

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Speaker 7: trial that lasted one week, Melissa was found guilty of

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Speaker 7: capital murder. Two days later, she was sentenced to death.

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Speaker 8: What's extraordinary about this case is how gendered it is,

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Speaker 8: how stereotypes related to her gender and ethnicity were used

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Speaker 8: against her.

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Speaker 12: The prosecution dismissed the evidence of Melissa's abuse, They essentially

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Speaker 12: encouraged the jury to think that she was making it

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Speaker 12: all up, and they belittled her for her experiences of

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Speaker 12: sexual abuse and domestic violence, and said in the closing

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Speaker 12: argument that her failure to cry was indication that she

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Speaker 12: was cold hearted and that she didn't have any remorse

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Speaker 12: and if you think about it and you ask yourself

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Speaker 12: this question, would a prosecutor ever say that a man

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Speaker 12: who didn't cry was cold hearted? And the answer is no,

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Speaker 12: because this is something that you only ask of women,

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Speaker 12: because the ones who are the ones who are expected

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Speaker 12: to cry. Men aren't expected to cry.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA, we continue to examine Melissa's

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Speaker 1: trial and later we'll hear from Melissa's family and how

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Speaker 1: this case has devastated their lives. Stay with us, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're back, and just a reminder there might be some

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Speaker 1: triggering stuff coming up. You heard about the case of

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Speaker 1: Melissa Lucio, a woman who was sentenced to death in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight after her two year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: Mariah died. John Lucio, Melissa's son, and others are doing

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Speaker 1: everything they can to stop Melissa's execution. Now we're going

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Speaker 1: to dive deeper into some of the things that Melissa's

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Speaker 1: defense says went wrong with her case, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to hear from Melissa's family. Latino USA producer Reynando Leanos

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Speaker 1: Junior picks up the story from here.

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Speaker 7: It's mid February and I'm speaking with Sabrina Van tas

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Speaker 7: the director of the documentary about Melissa Lucio. We're at

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Speaker 7: Melissa's mom's home in Harlingen, Texas. Sabrina is here with

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Speaker 7: members of the Lucio family coordinating a statewide media tour

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Speaker 7: to try to get Melissa's execution date withdrawn. The day before,

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Speaker 7: Sabrina met with Melissa at the Mountain View prison unit

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Speaker 7: in Gainesville, which is about an eight hour drive north

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Speaker 7: from here.

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Speaker 5: It was really more joyful than I thought it would be,

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Speaker 5: just because we were happy to be together, and we

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Speaker 5: kind of detached ourselves about where we were, you know,

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Speaker 5: just being separated by that huge glass, and we talked

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Speaker 5: also about very intimate things I asked her, for example,

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Speaker 5: you know, who was the love of your life. She

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Speaker 5: asked me things about myself too, so it was it

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Speaker 5: was interesting.

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Speaker 7: Sabrina spent four hours with Melissa. They spoke via a handset,

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Speaker 7: separated from one another by a glass wall.

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Speaker 5: She wants to fight till the end. She wants to

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Speaker 5: fight for justice, she wants to fight for her children,

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Speaker 5: and also, you know from Mariah, she wants her life

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Speaker 5: and her fight to help others because she realizes that

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Speaker 5: it's all political and that you do not end up

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Speaker 5: on death her ownness. You're poor or a person of color,

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Speaker 5: and you've been in a way misrepresented.

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Speaker 7: When she left the prison, some of the same questions

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Speaker 7: she had when she first met Melissa still loomed over

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Speaker 7: her head.

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Speaker 5: How could you set an execution date when there are

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Speaker 5: so many question marks all over a case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's her right there as Mariah. And that's actually

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Speaker 2: whenever she was in the in the Foster home and

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Speaker 2: it was her birthday.

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Speaker 7: This is John Lucio, Melissa's son, who we heard from

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Speaker 7: at the beginning of the episode. I visited him in

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Speaker 7: his home in Harlingen in early March. He showed me

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Speaker 7: a few family photos he had hanging on the wall.

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Speaker 2: So she was happy. She was very happy.

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Speaker 7: And the photograph we're looking at you can see a

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Speaker 7: chubby toddler. She's sitting on a large, dark brown leather chair,

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Speaker 7: and in front of her there's a big pink and

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Speaker 7: yellow cake that says happy birthday, Mariah. John gets emotional

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Speaker 7: talking about this. He says he was clothes with his

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Speaker 7: baby sister Mariah.

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Speaker 2: We just locked in, like we got so attached, and

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Speaker 2: she loved me, she really did. She would come to me,

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Speaker 2: and she get excited when she would see me.

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Speaker 7: When we spoke, John had also just recently come back

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Speaker 7: from visiting his mom. He had gone with two of

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Speaker 7: his siblings.

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Speaker 2: My mother hadn't seen her children three at the same

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Speaker 2: time in a long time, so, I mean, last time

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Speaker 2: she probably had that was back in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: eight when she was still here in Cameron County. So

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Speaker 2: it was very amazing. It was beautiful. She loved it.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was We had a bunch of laughters,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of joking around, and it was just it

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Speaker 2: was just so amazing. I'll do whatever I can to

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Speaker 2: see a smile on my mother's face.

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Speaker 7: As we heard earlier from John, he acknowledges that his

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Speaker 7: mom was not perfect. She was drugs and she was neglectful.

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Speaker 7: They were also very poor and sometimes they didn't even

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Speaker 7: have water. But there was also the other side of Melissa.

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Speaker 2: Her cooking was amazing. She cooked breakfast, lunch, and didn't

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Speaker 2: especially on the weekends like when we're not at school,

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Speaker 2: and she made full course mills. I'm talking about homemade

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Speaker 2: her tears. My mother was a woman too. After breakfast, clean,

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Speaker 2: after lunch, clean, after dinner, clean, So I mean, even

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Speaker 2: though we come from a family of poverty, and we

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Speaker 2: were like the lowest of the lowest. When I mean

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Speaker 2: you're coming into our house or where we lived at

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Speaker 2: in the projects or whatever we lived at, you smelled

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Speaker 2: the scent of a clean house. She was a wonderful mother.

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Speaker 2: She was a loving mother, She was a carried mother.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she did whatever she had to do for us.

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Speaker 7: John was just seventeen when his baby sister died, but

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Speaker 7: even then he had some questions about his mother's legal defense.

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Speaker 2: Why didn't they use us, especially my younger siblings. That's

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Speaker 2: seeing what happened.

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Speaker 7: He's referencing the fact that back in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 7: two of his younger siblings said to a CPS social

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Speaker 7: worker that they saw Mariah falling down the stairs, just

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Speaker 7: as Melissa had told the officers who interrogated her. This

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Speaker 7: was captured in video.

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Speaker 4: I saw some pictures of her, and she had a

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Speaker 4: lot of scranches on her face, and she had bruises everywhere.

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Speaker 4: So I wanted to know if you knew about those,

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Speaker 4: how she got those, how much she got Did you

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Speaker 4: ever see them?

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Speaker 8: Though?

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Speaker 4: Well? I saw one booth, was she fled up steps?

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Speaker 4: Where did she happy? Where did you see?

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Speaker 3: Yup?

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Speaker 4: I think we don't want her?

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Speaker 3: I I think I too.

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Speaker 7: The woman and Melissa's son are in a small room

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Speaker 7: with light blue walls. They're sitting at opposite ends of

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Speaker 7: a white table.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel safe, Lena? Uh?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 4: How come because of me and my dad?

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Speaker 7: Then that same woman from CPS talks to another of

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Speaker 7: Melissa's children.

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Speaker 4: Do you know why you came to talk to me today?

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Speaker 4: Has anything happened? Who's Maria? Has she had any accidents

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Speaker 4: or had anything happened to her.

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Speaker 8: Or anything like that?

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Speaker 4: She filled the tips and did you see her fall?

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Speaker 4: Or did somebody tell you that that's what had happened

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Speaker 4: to Mischall.

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Speaker 7: Peter Gilman, Melissa's first lawyer, did not call Melissa's children

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Speaker 7: to testify, and the videos were never presented to the jury.

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Speaker 8: Certainly, the eyewitness account of seeing Mariah fall down the

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Speaker 8: stairs two days earlier, exactly as Melissa told the police,

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Speaker 8: that would have been highly relevant, since the state's case

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Speaker 8: was that there was no fall down the stairs, and

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Speaker 8: rather that the child had been beaten and that's what

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Speaker 8: caused your head injury.

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Speaker 7: That's tivone again, he says, there was also other evidence

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Speaker 7: that could have shown a different source from Mariah's bruises.

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Speaker 8: An independent forensic pathologist who examined the autopsy records after

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Speaker 8: the trial concluded that those bruises were very likely the

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Speaker 8: result of a vascular condition that happens to people like

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Speaker 8: Mariah who are dying from a head injury.

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Speaker 7: It's a condition called malignant cerebral edema. When children suffer

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Speaker 7: a head trauma, the brain swells and doesn't get enough oxygen,

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Speaker 7: which causes tissue damage and blood plotting, and can lead

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Speaker 7: to bruising all over the body. But Tivone says Melissa's

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Speaker 7: case wasn't impacted only by what went on inside of

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Speaker 7: the courtroom. A few months before Melissa's trial, a man

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Speaker 7: convicted of murder was released on bond by the Cameron

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Speaker 7: County District Attorney's office. That man fled and remained a

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Speaker 7: fugitive for several years. Then the same DA's office, led

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Speaker 7: at the time by Armando via Loobos, took a special

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Speaker 7: interest in Melissa's case.

445
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 8: So Violobo's had a reason to try to shore up

446
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 8: his reputation after this murderer had escaped custody. He needs

447
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 8: to make a showing that he is actually really tough

448
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 8: on crime and not participating in it. He's also seeking

449
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 8: reelection around this time, so he decides he's going to

450
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 8: put the first Latina on death row in Texas. He

451
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 8: personally appeared at trial, examined witnesses, made argument especially to

452
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 8: get the death penalty in the penalty phase. That was

453
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 8: his particular concern.

454
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 7: But in twenty thirteen, five years after Melissa was sentenced,

455
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 7: Vallobos faced his own trial. He was accused of bribery

456
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 7: and extortion, including accepting eighty thousand dollars to let that

457
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 7: man who was convicted of murder walk free. Vaelobos was

458
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 7: found guilty and is now serving a thirteen year prison sentence.

459
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 13: What struck me about him was the number of cases

460
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 13: where he personally came in and took over.

461
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 7: That's Michael J. Wynn, former assistant US attorney and the

462
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 7: lead prosecutor against Armando Viallobos, Win was interviewed in Sabrina's documentary.

463
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 13: The Case Involving Potential Abuse of a Child Alleged sexual misconduct.

464
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 13: Those are the cases that mister Violobos would take on,

465
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 13: trying to put his face in front as the crusader

466
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 13: for Justice.

467
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 7: Violobos's conviction casts a shadow on Melissa's case and several

468
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 7: others he oversaw during his tenure at the DA's office.

469
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 13: There are several cases where mister Vio Lobos has put

470
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 13: people on death row, and yes, every single one of

471
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 13: those cases should be examined.

472
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 7: One last thing about Via Lobos. After Melissa's trial, her

473
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 7: first defense attorney went to work with him.

474
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 8: It's an absurd case in which to seek the death penalty.

475
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 8: It can almost certainly be explained only by the political

476
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 8: circumstances and the corruption of Armando Violobo's The death penalty

477
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 8: is supposed to be reserved for the worst of the worst.

478
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 8: That's what the Supreme Court says. So it's absurd that

479
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 8: the state is still pursuing the death penalty against Melissa,

480
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 8: in particular because before the trial, the state offered her

481
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 8: a guilty plea that would have had her serving a

482
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 8: thirty year sentence. So they know that Melissa Lucio is

483
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 8: not a danger to society in prison or anywhere else.

484
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 7: Briefly, the court seemed inclined to give Melissa another chance.

485
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 7: In twenty nineteen, the US Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals

486
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 7: found that Melissa was not given a fair chance to

487
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 7: defend herself, and according to an article published in the

488
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 7: UCLA Law Review, Melissa was only the second person on

489
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 7: death row in more than one hundred and fifty cases

490
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 7: to whom the court granted this relief since two thousand. However,

491
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 7: the State of Texas appealed the decision. Melissa fought back,

492
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 7: but after a year and a half living with the

493
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 7: illusion of a new trial, in twenty twenty one, the

494
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 7: courts once again sided with the state. After the latest setback,

495
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 7: all hopes were in the Supreme Court, but it declined

496
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 7: to hear the case, and now, according to her defense,

497
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 7: there aren't many legal options left for Melissa.

498
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: It's hard to wake up every morning in the same old,

499
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: ugly cage. It's hard to move ahead when the clock

500
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: is running slow. It's hard to have so many questions

501
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: with answers I don't know. It's hard to think I'm

502
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: smart when I lost everything so best. It's hard to

503
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 3: think about the future when I'm still stuck in the past.

504
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: It's hard to build her love when my family is

505
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: so far It's hard to forget about the mistakes when

506
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 3: they've left so many skool.

507
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: With everything being so hard you think I just give up.

508
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: But the only thing about being in the bottom is

509
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: that the only way is up.

510
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 7: Earlier this year, the state of Texas scheduled Melissa to

511
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 7: die on April twenty seven. In a statement to Latino USA,

512
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 7: the Cameron County District Attorney, Louis Science, said that his

513
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 7: office could not comment on the case because there's pending litigation.

514
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 7: He did say, though, that his office quote stands with

515
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 7: the citizens of our county and its jurors, and we

516
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 7: remember two year old Maria Alvarez, whose abuse and death

517
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 7: at the hands of her mother remained the heart of

518
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 7: this litigation. Sabrina, the filmmaker of Melissa's documentary, sees the

519
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 7: case very differently.

520
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 5: She was a white male with money, she would not

521
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 5: be where she's at right now. Now, She's where she's

522
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 5: at because she's poor. She is a Hispanic mom with

523
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 5: too many children, and she's a life that does not matter,

524
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 5: and her life did not matter.

525
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: To these people.

526
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 7: Here's Melissa's attorney again.

527
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 8: You generally do not see the death penalty made it

528
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 8: out to people who have good representation. The death penalty

529
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 8: is not for the worst crime. It's for the worst lawyering.

530
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 7: Since nineteen eighty nine, at least seventy women in the

531
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 7: United States have been exonerated for murders that they did

532
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 7: not commit. That's according to the National Registry of Exonerations.

533
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 7: In almost half of those cases, no crime was ever committed.

534
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 7: For Sandra Babcock, who we heard from earlier, the state

535
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 7: of Texas got it wrong with Melissa.

536
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 12: If Texas executes Melissa Lucio, it will be a crime

537
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 12: and a mistake that Texas can never take back. That

538
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 12: people will talk about decades from now as an example

539
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 12: of a horrific injustice. And that is the thing that

540
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 12: haunts me and haunts everybody who is involved in this case,

541
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 12: is that we are going to execute somebody who's innocent,

542
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 12: and that there is not enough time left to convince

543
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 12: the courts and to convince the Texas governor and the

544
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 12: Board of Pardons and Paroles that they have to stop

545
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 12: this execution.

546
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 7: Latino USA reached out to Governor Greg Abbott and the

547
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 7: Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles for comment, but we

548
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 7: didn't hear back from them. Having a mother in prison

549
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 7: has been difficult for the entire family. John, who back

550
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 7: then was already living on his own, took in two

551
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 7: of his siblings. His other six underage brothers and sisters

552
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 7: were split and were placed with different foster parents before

553
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 7: eventually being taken in by relatives.

554
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's sad because the division has gotten

555
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: way worse now, like even siblings are against each other

556
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: in this situation.

557
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 7: This rupture within the family extends beyond John and his siblings.

558
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 7: Here's Melissa's sister, Diane said, Dada.

559
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 9: Her children. They feel that we haven't been there for them.

560
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 9: They feel that we because we didn't take them in,

561
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 9: that we don't love them, because I've heard, you know, recently,

562
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 9: I've heard that they say, they say that we're fake.

563
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 9: They feel like we let them down because we didn't

564
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 9: take them. We were grieving.

565
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 7: It's a pain Diane has to live with. Still, she

566
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 7: has happy memories of Melissa that give her comfort.

567
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 9: You know, we were three girls and the music that

568
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 9: we liked is go munto music because that's what we

569
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 9: grew up hearing. And Melissa love to dance, so I

570
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 9: love to dance. So yeah, I mean, there's a lot

571
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 9: of memories, a lot of memories.

572
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 7: But probably no one has had it harder than Melissa's mom, Esperanza.

573
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 9: My mom was always a happy person. She's got severe depression.

574
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 9: Ever since Ninnissa was in got incarcerated. Her health for

575
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 9: the past four years has just gone downhill. My mom

576
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 9: doesn't walk on her own anymore. She doesn't do anything.

577
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 9: She doesn't want to smile. She says, don't try to

578
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 9: make me laugh.

579
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 7: The family only recently told Esperanza there's a date for

580
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 7: Melissa's execution.

581
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 9: It took us about two weeks to tell her, and

582
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 9: she just broke out in tears and crying and why

583
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 9: my daughter, you know.

584
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 7: During a recent press conference as part of their media

585
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 7: tour to defend Melissa, Esperanza was able to speak briefly.

586
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 4: Ge not guilty, she's my daughter, and not guilty of.

587
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: Saying K's guilty of and if you have children, hunt

588
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: them and get them.

589
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 7: Esperanza gets emotional and it's hard for her to finish

590
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 7: her sentence. John then wraps his arm around his grandmother

591
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 7: to comfort her. They're determined to continue to fight to

592
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 7: the end for Melissa.

593
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: Wish we could be a big, happy family again, because

594
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: when we were and my mother was out here, like

595
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: the Holidays were the best team that we had. It

596
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: was it was a party, you know what I'm saying,

597
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: Like it was so cool.

598
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 9: Sometimes we get frustrated, you know, hearing people talk and

599
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 9: say this and that. Everybody has a right to their

600
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 9: own opinion. Until you walk those shoes. You can't say, Okay,

601
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 9: well she's guilty or she did it because you don't know.

602
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 9: I mean, my sister, I stand behind her one hundred

603
00:38:59,120 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 9: and ten percent.

604
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 5: She has an incredible faith in God, so that keeps

605
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 5: her going. She put me on her execution list, so

606
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 5: you know, if worst come to words, I'll have to

607
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 5: make a decision. Will I be with her till the end,

608
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 5: meaning that I'll be there when she dies. I still

609
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 5: have not made that decision, but I might.

610
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say I wouldn't love her if she

611
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: was guilty. I'm gonna excuse my mother and I love

612
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: her no matter what. But I wouldn't be fighting for

613
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: her right now if I knew one hundred percent she

614
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 2: was guilty and she's not. I mean, I just want

615
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: people to like believe in her innocence. I mean to

616
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: get a deeper look into it, and they do want

617
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: me to do it soon because time is running out.

618
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: On March twenty second, a petition was filed for clemency

619
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: on behalf Melissa Lucio with Governor Greg Abbott of Texas

620
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: and with the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. If granted,

621
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: Melissa Lucio could be removed from death row for now.

622
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: Her execution by lethal injection remains scheduled for April twenty seventh.

623
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: I often think about my daughter Mariah.

624
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of dreams about her.

625
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: I've dreamed that.

626
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: Her and I are out there in that she's running

627
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 3: around in her little dress.

628
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 8: You know, it's.

629
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 3: It's hard to have dreams about your children because when

630
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: you wake up and then you see where you're at,

631
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: you wish that it wouldn't have been a dream, that

632
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: it would have been reality. There are days that I

633
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: feel that I could just leave this place and be

634
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 3: reunited with Mariah. Just tell her I'm sorry that I

635
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: wasn't there to protect her.

636
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior and Victoria Estrada.

637
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: It was edited by Andrea Lopez Gruzsado and mixed by

638
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: Julia Caruso and Stefane LAbau. Special thanks to Sabrina van

639
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: Tassel for letting us use clips from her documentary The

640
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: State of Texas Versus Melissa. To learn more about Melissa

641
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: Lucio's case, visit our website Latinousa dot org. The Latino

642
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: USA team includes Marta Martinez, Daisy Contreda's, Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli,

643
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: Patrice ulbar Montandre s Alasad, and Julia Rocha, with hot

644
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: from Raoul Perez. Our editorial director is Julio Ricarobella. Our

645
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: associate engineers are gabriel Lebez and JJ Grubin. Our digital

646
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: editor is Louis Luna. Our fellows are Elisa Vayena, Monica

647
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: Morales and Andrew Vignals. Our theme music was composed by

648
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: Sena Roubinos. I'm your host and executive producer Marino Josa.

649
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode and in the meantime,

650
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: look for us on social media and remember not tevayas Joao.

651
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 9: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Libra Foundation,

652
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 9: the chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and the John D.

653
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 4: And Catherine T.

654
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 9: MacArthur Foundation,