WEBVTT - why the SEC ignored the hawk tuah scam feat. john reed stark

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everyone, Jamie here with two notes at the top

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<v Speaker 2>of this week's episode. First, I am going on my

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<v Speaker 2>book tour across the US to celebrate the paperback release

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<v Speaker 2>of my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about Hot

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<v Speaker 2>Dogs next week, and I'm really excited to see everybody. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>please come out if you live in these areas. All

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<v Speaker 2>readings are going to be free and hosted by good

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<v Speaker 2>friends of mine, and so I will be in Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be in Louisville, Kentucky. I'll be in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Portland, Maine, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Richmond, Virginia,

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<v Speaker 2>and Pedaluma, California, starting a week from today. Full dates

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<v Speaker 2>and details are at the link in the description, and

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<v Speaker 2>I would love to see you there. Also, we released

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<v Speaker 2>this in a minisode last week, but this is your

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<v Speaker 2>last week to send me your stories of times that

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<v Speaker 2>you have been the main character or just memories that

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<v Speaker 2>you have with the changing Internet. So please send your

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<v Speaker 2>stories in voice memo form to me by Friday, May ninth,

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<v Speaker 2>that's this Friday, to the following email address small Ice

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<v Speaker 2>Resurfacer at gmail dot com, and you just might be

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<v Speaker 2>featured on the show. In a couple of weeks. That's all.

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<v Speaker 2>And now the grand, grand grand finale of Haley Hawk

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<v Speaker 2>to a Welch.

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<v Speaker 3>The sixteen.

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<v Speaker 4>Sixty Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we

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<v Speaker 4>talk to the main characters of the Internet to see

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<v Speaker 4>how they're a moment in the spotlight affected them and

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<v Speaker 4>what that says about us and the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>And this week we finish our look at Hailey Welch

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<v Speaker 2>aka Hawk to a Girl, the main character of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four. After a shockingly fast run in the public eye.

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<v Speaker 2>Between the summer and winter of twenty twenty four, Hailey

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<v Speaker 2>went from an unknown who was confronted in the street

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<v Speaker 2>by wanna be Girls go on Wild style influencers to

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<v Speaker 2>the face of a cryptoscam run by Howie Mandel's scumbag

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<v Speaker 2>son in law. And whether you like her or not,

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds very overwhelming. And if you want to catch

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<v Speaker 2>up on what happened with Hailey after this halt to

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<v Speaker 2>her career, which was marked by an SEC investigation, a

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<v Speaker 2>disastrous digital press conference and.

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<v Speaker 5>Who I'm going to go to bed and I'll see

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<v Speaker 5>you guys tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>And a long subsequent digital silence, please check out our

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<v Speaker 2>previous episode where you'll learn what was happening behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 2>In these months of alleged silence, speculation ran wild that

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<v Speaker 2>Haley would go to jail as a result of the investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>A few places speculated that she was pregnant or dead,

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<v Speaker 2>and many thought she would either voluntarily or just end

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<v Speaker 2>up having to return to her normal life in rural Tennessee,

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<v Speaker 2>where this time last year, at the time of this recording,

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<v Speaker 2>she was working in a local spring factory. And while

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<v Speaker 2>it appeared that not just Hailey Welch but her entire

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<v Speaker 2>team were careful not to say anything publicly when the

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<v Speaker 2>investigation concluded, this didn't stop them from banking phase banking.

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<v Speaker 2>One could even say a future episode of Talk toua

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<v Speaker 2>while still on Jake Paul's Better Podcast network at this time,

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<v Speaker 2>that seemed to want to serve as a what went

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<v Speaker 2>wrong kind of thing. I would say calling it an

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<v Speaker 2>apology would be a huge stretch, as we unpacked in

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<v Speaker 2>our last episode, but more of an attempt to express

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<v Speaker 2>some light remorse and get the public back on her side.

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<v Speaker 2>Although this episode, as we discussed, still included ads for

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<v Speaker 2>cryptosports betting apps and seemed to reach the conclusion that

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<v Speaker 2>Haley should be open to trying crypto again, but this

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<v Speaker 2>time she should do it smarter. But this episode leaked

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<v Speaker 2>in early February by Haley's team nearly two months before

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<v Speaker 2>that SEC investigation closed, and it completely blew up in

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<v Speaker 2>their faces. Not only is Fayze Banks, a fellow government

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<v Speaker 2>investigated cryptogrifter, furious that this episode of Talk to A

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<v Speaker 2>came out beforehand. The public was not buying the attempted

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<v Speaker 2>mia culpa in the slightest, so Haley and team went

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<v Speaker 2>dark online again until late March, the week that TMZ

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<v Speaker 2>published the following headline.

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<v Speaker 6>Hawk to A Girl off the hook for hawking mean coin.

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<v Speaker 2>Incredible journalism and that is where you join us today.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's hawk back to A. In late March twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five, when the second act of Haley Welch's career

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<v Speaker 2>was hard launched in the hopes of gaining not just

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<v Speaker 2>the forgiveness of the public that her team had defrauded

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<v Speaker 2>a few months earlier in an egregious crypto scam, but

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<v Speaker 2>also recapture the same excitement that existed around her in

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<v Speaker 2>the early days of the Hawk to A meme. She

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<v Speaker 2>first teases this in a poorly rendered comedy sketch that

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<v Speaker 2>she posts to her Instagram in which she re enacts

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<v Speaker 2>all the false rumors that existed around her during the

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<v Speaker 2>four months of sec induced.

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<v Speaker 3>Silence breaking news.

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<v Speaker 6>Hailey clearly well to Gosh the hawk To a girl

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<v Speaker 6>had died.

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<v Speaker 2>But what is suspiciously missing from this sketch is any

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<v Speaker 2>direct mention of said crypto fraud investigation. The only reference

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<v Speaker 2>to crypto or a scandal of any sort is a

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<v Speaker 2>short monologue joke clip pulled from Stephen Colbert. The results

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<v Speaker 2>of the investigation, which were no surprise during a Trump

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<v Speaker 2>administration that had literally started selling their own meme coins

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<v Speaker 2>pre inauguration, were announced two days later, and the stage

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<v Speaker 2>was set for an attempted hawk to a comeback, and

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<v Speaker 2>boy were their attempts Hailey and company, which at this

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<v Speaker 2>point appears to be somewhat reduced. It is unclear the

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<v Speaker 2>size of the team, but definitely consists of her, of

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<v Speaker 2>her best friend Chelsea, who was also her co host

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<v Speaker 2>on the Talk to A podcast, of a lawyer, and

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<v Speaker 2>possibly some managers and publicists. But during this period of

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<v Speaker 2>time when they have not been cleared to speak publicly,

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<v Speaker 2>they are waiting in the wings to parlay this into

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<v Speaker 2>whatever the next chapter is going to consist of. And

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean by this is that it was revealed

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<v Speaker 2>in late March that they were filming a documentary the

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<v Speaker 2>whole time from an Emmy winning streamer documentary factory called Bungalow,

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<v Speaker 2>who have released this documentaries about a lot of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>but including some pretty serious topics, Thirteen Days in Ferguson

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<v Speaker 2>and Little Richard, I Am Everything being their two most

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<v Speaker 2>successful projects. So it's clear that Haley's team cannot wait

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<v Speaker 2>to push Hailey, Welch and Hawk to A back into

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<v Speaker 2>the public eye after the SEC investigation closes, and so

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<v Speaker 2>in the days to come, there are a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>very random feeling announcements made. There's the formal announcement of

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<v Speaker 2>the documentary.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you all been enjoying the crazy stories about

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<v Speaker 1>my life unfold on social media. First I was dead,

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<v Speaker 1>then pregnant, Now I'm wanted by Interpol and in jail.

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<v Speaker 1>Luckily we've been working with Bungalow. Start spilling the tea

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<v Speaker 1>and the truth is actually even more bizarre than you think.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also the announcement that the Talk to A podcast

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<v Speaker 2>will return with the confirmation of what I had suspected

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<v Speaker 2>because of not receiving my talk to A Change My

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<v Speaker 2>Life shirt, they had in fact severed ties with Jake

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<v Speaker 2>Paul and the Better Network.

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<v Speaker 6>Hailey Welch and Better Holdings Incorporated have mutually agreed to

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<v Speaker 6>end their partnership regarding the Talk to A podcast and

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<v Speaker 6>wish each other well in their future endeavors. Better and

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<v Speaker 6>Welch said in a shared statement the podcast will instead

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<v Speaker 6>be produced by Welch's own company sixteen Minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>And as you'll hear, the word produced is quite generous,

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<v Speaker 2>but weirdest of all, Team Welch announces that she is

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<v Speaker 2>going to have a cameo in an upcoming Glenn Powell project.

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<v Speaker 2>I truly do not know any other details about this

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<v Speaker 2>and find it very bizarre, but here is a bad

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<v Speaker 2>AI generated YouTube celebrity news channel insisting upon it.

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<v Speaker 7>Hallie Welch is reportedly back on the scene and doing

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<v Speaker 7>her thing in La La Land. The twenty two year

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<v Speaker 7>old meme queen who shot to fame as the Hawk

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<v Speaker 7>Tua Girl following a viral TikTok video, filmed a cameo

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<v Speaker 7>for Glenn Powell's upcoming show in Hollywood this past weekend

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<v Speaker 7>according to TMZ.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, Haley's team is really throwing stuff at the

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<v Speaker 2>wall here, which, to be fair, isn't incredibly different from

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<v Speaker 2>how her career was being run at the peak of

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<v Speaker 2>her relevance. But a flash in the pan star making

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<v Speaker 2>a cameo in a B movie that's kind of a classic,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the tale as old as time. But of these announcements,

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<v Speaker 2>the only thing given a date and a guaranteed release

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<v Speaker 2>was talk to A And I couldn't help But wonder

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't help it. Wonder what was the new approach

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<v Speaker 2>to the podcast going to be and would anyone still

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<v Speaker 2>want to listen to it? Because the more time that passes,

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<v Speaker 2>And unfortunately this is very common in these stories that

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<v Speaker 2>we cover on this show. People were moving on at

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<v Speaker 2>the time I'm writing and recording this. Coffee Zilla isn't

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<v Speaker 2>making videos about Haley Welch anymore. And while I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>those videos would get decent engagement, my guess is that

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<v Speaker 2>he hasn't bothered because algorithmically, when it comes to crypto malfeasance,

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<v Speaker 2>he's got bigger fish to fry right now. Here are

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<v Speaker 2>just some random clips from the last three months of

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<v Speaker 2>his content pumping.

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<v Speaker 3>Dumps, why are they legal?

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<v Speaker 2>Today?

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<v Speaker 8>Elon Musk and Joe Rogan are gonna tell us the answer.

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<v Speaker 3>The whole meme coin thing is, and we're gonna.

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<v Speaker 8>Just jump into it now. I want to say it's

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<v Speaker 8>an auspicious day. Not only are the Epstein files about

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<v Speaker 8>to be released, we also released Andrew and Tristan Taate.

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<v Speaker 8>They're free to leave Romania all because, according to the

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<v Speaker 8>Financial Times, the White House and government officials have been

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<v Speaker 8>pressuring Romania to let these.

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<v Speaker 3>Poor persecuted influencers go.

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<v Speaker 8>Today I discovered there are AI ads running on YouTube

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<v Speaker 8>of me scamming people with AI and crypto. Truly my

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<v Speaker 8>worst nightmare reimagined. I thought it couldn't get worse.

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<v Speaker 2>And again, I would genuinely recommend his channel if you're

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<v Speaker 2>interested in better understanding how these scams are being pulled off,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would also recommend my fellow cool Zone Media

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<v Speaker 2>friend ed Zitron on Better Offline. But the point is,

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<v Speaker 2>while a really good reporter, coffee Zilla is as beholden

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<v Speaker 2>to the algorithm as anybody, and it's possible that with

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<v Speaker 2>so much else going on in the world that Hailey

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<v Speaker 2>Welch isn't the algorithmic bait that she was six months

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<v Speaker 2>ago at the time of this writing. And it feels

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<v Speaker 2>horrible to have written that down and to say that

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<v Speaker 2>it feels so reductive, and it bums me out. And

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<v Speaker 2>I started this show because I think that that is

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<v Speaker 2>a very sad tendency. But if you were a person

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<v Speaker 2>whose numbers are beholden too relevant current events, pok Tua

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<v Speaker 2>didn't carry the same cultural relevance it did by the

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<v Speaker 2>time that the SEC and haw Coin settled in March

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five, as they had just a couple months earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's for a number of reasons. Haley's career burned

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<v Speaker 2>bright and fast, and she didn't have a history as

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<v Speaker 2>a public figure prior to hawk Tua and didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>anything else for people to glom onto. And even less likely,

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<v Speaker 2>she went viral, and some might argue went more viral

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<v Speaker 2>than usual because it was an election year. And if

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<v Speaker 2>the result of that election year is enthusiastically pulling a

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<v Speaker 2>scam that someone in the White House would do just

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<v Speaker 2>a few weeks later, that's a lot of noise to

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<v Speaker 2>yell over. And it's only if you want to. When

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<v Speaker 2>I was finishing our first series on Haley and the

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<v Speaker 2>Hawk to a saga, she was still, for lack of

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<v Speaker 2>a better phrase, taking a nap, and it was intentionally

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<v Speaker 2>unclear whether she wanted to forge ahead with a career

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<v Speaker 2>in social media or if she was going to take

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<v Speaker 2>stock say hey, this year was fucked up, and then

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<v Speaker 2>buy a house and pack it in. As soon as

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<v Speaker 2>the SEC declared her innocent. A part of me kind

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<v Speaker 2>of hoped that she would a lot of people, myself included,

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<v Speaker 2>thought it seemed pretty clear that Haley was being used

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<v Speaker 2>by some pretty lazy, half assed schemers, whether that be

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<v Speaker 2>Howie Mandel's failed musician son in law turned crypto moron,

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<v Speaker 2>or Jake Paul, a man who bravely kicked an old

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<v Speaker 2>rapist ass on live TV and wasn't even proud of

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<v Speaker 2>it for the right reason. The speculation around Haley Welch

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<v Speaker 2>was complicated, but by the time Talk to A relaunched

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<v Speaker 2>on April eighth, twenty twenty five, people had moved on.

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<v Speaker 2>Hailey hadn't gotten any better at interviewing. The set independent

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<v Speaker 2>of Jake Paul's Better Network was completely unedited and lo fi,

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<v Speaker 2>and while I'd say the only improvement on the show

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<v Speaker 2>is fully putting Chelsea in the second chair. Good call.

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<v Speaker 2>It is still a really boring show.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.480
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry, okay, well, welcome back to another episode of

0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 5>Talk to Him. It's been a hot minute since we've

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 5>been back here. But now where the official owners have

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 5>talk to Him and we may or may not have

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 5>flowd to London to get a very special guest for you.

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.840
<v Speaker 2>We got Ksi Yo yeall, and as before, the more

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 2>experienced in media guests kind of starts to interview Hailey

0:15:55.400 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 2>when she fails to interview them, and unfortunately the guest

0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 2>whose name you just heard, like Phase Banks, does warrant

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>some introduction. Ksi or jj Olatunji is one of these

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.120
<v Speaker 2>fucking guys too. He started online as a popular gaming

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 2>streamer as a history of sexist and racist comments, and

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of course eventually parlays the millions of mostly children consuming

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 2>his slop into a string of influencer staples. This means

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 2>professional boxing, alternative rivalries, and business partnerships with various Paul Brothers.

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 2>This means insidiously marketed products to children, and of course

0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>this means promoting a pump and dump crypto scheme. In

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:49.840
<v Speaker 2>early twenty twenty four.

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 9>KSI is one of the world's most popular YouTubers, but

0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 9>yesterday he accidentally exposed the pump and dump crypto scams

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 9>that he promoted. They've been hidden from two years, but

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 9>only came out when KSI logged back into his old

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 9>Twitter account, saying does this still work?

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 2>And if you're wondering, was that coffee Zilla busting KSI? Yeah?

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how he does it. He's busted everybody,

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.160
<v Speaker 2>but crypto scams of any kind don't really come up

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.680
<v Speaker 2>in the return of Talk to which, as Haley is

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 2>quick to mention, is now owned by her company, not

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Jake Paul's.

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:34.000
<v Speaker 10>This I know is gonna annoy j Poole definitely, but

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.080
<v Speaker 10>I'm glad you're free from his grasp. I'm not able

0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.120
<v Speaker 10>to flourish and be WHOA one of the best podcasts.

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.320
<v Speaker 5>And Butterfly, Yeah, beautiful Butterfly.

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 2>What's the beef with Jake Paul?

0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 11>I mean it's been going on for years. Man.

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.639
<v Speaker 2>With all due respect to KSI, and my understanding is

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.400
<v Speaker 2>there is very little do The commenters on the new

0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Talk to A episode on YouTube appear to be in

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>agreement that his appearing on her show is a sign

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 2>that Haley's career may be on its last legs. The

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>podcast was filmed in London, and the winking in reason

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that Ksi as the guest appears to be because he

0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 2>has a fairly long standing feud with Jake Paul in

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 2>spite of the fact that he is in business with

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Logan Paul on two of the most disgusting products on

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>shelves today, those being Prime Energy. Up this morning, there's

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>a new warning for parents and kids about energy drinks.

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 12>Maybe you've seen Prime Energy on social media.

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 4>Brandy Smith explains why the drink is getting so much

0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:42.640
<v Speaker 4>negative attention.

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:47.439
<v Speaker 2>Schools are actually banning it and Lunchly the Lunchibles with

0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 2>mold but.

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.040
<v Speaker 12>Closely because mister Beast is disgusted by his own product, Lunchly.

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.639
<v Speaker 2>And it got worse when this woman bought Lunchley to

0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 2>try it for the first time and there was mold inside.

0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 2>This is molded. That's mold and as will become relevant,

0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.400
<v Speaker 2>gays I is on the similar Paul Brothers path of

0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>starting as a famous gaming streamer. And by the way,

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was funny that he talks about playing

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>FIFA in a video game as if he is a

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 2>professional soccer player himself. Does streamers do that? That was

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:24.719
<v Speaker 2>the first thing you got like really known for.

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.200
<v Speaker 11>Oh FIFA.

0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 10>So FIFA is like a football game or soccer game

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 10>where you passed the ball around the pitch and then

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 10>you put it in the net.

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 11>H No, I did not come home.

0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:41.800
<v Speaker 3>You just played it nice.

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 10>I played the game, yeah, yeah, and then I just

0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.439
<v Speaker 10>make various videos on it and it just went viral.

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.439
<v Speaker 2>I found that very distracting. What I was saying is

0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:56.400
<v Speaker 2>that Gaysi has done celebrity boxing, first against Logan Paul

0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.159
<v Speaker 2>at the Staples Center in LA in twenty nineteen, but

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 2>really outside of knowing that he is also one of

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.760
<v Speaker 2>these guys and that it appears that the new strategy

0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.920
<v Speaker 2>of the podcast is to bring on people who will

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>not challenge Haley and also do not like Jake Paul,

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 2>there's not much to say. The rest of the interview

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:24.080
<v Speaker 2>is about Kosi's career, some awkward flirtation, and Hailey speculating

0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:30.080
<v Speaker 2>on what's next for her without addressing why she was

0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 2>in trouble in her career to begin with. Folks, the

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:43.520
<v Speaker 2>podcast is boring and the episode itself is devoid of

0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>any remaining sponsors, except for surprisingly, Haley's pet rescue nonprofit

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.920
<v Speaker 2>PAUS Across America. Honestly surprised they're still going. I hope

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.679
<v Speaker 2>they're doing good things. But that is all there is

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:02.199
<v Speaker 2>to report about the returning episode of Talk To. And

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:08.160
<v Speaker 2>worst of all, the episode ends like this, thank you.

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 5>Oh, thank you for coming on.

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 11>Thank you. Of course, is.

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:17.399
<v Speaker 2>It even talk TOUA if Haley doesn't ask KSI what

0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.600
<v Speaker 2>he does in bed to make a woman go crazy?

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 2>I was not impressed with the return of talk To,

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.399
<v Speaker 2>and I was not alone there, because, as I'm writing this,

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.920
<v Speaker 2>around a week after the episode launched on YouTube, it

0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.160
<v Speaker 2>only has about sixty thousand views, compared to the height

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.159
<v Speaker 2>of two point eight million views while on the Better

0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Network just six months ago, or Coffee Zilla's four million

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:47.400
<v Speaker 2>views for criticizing her just two months ago. The episodes

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.119
<v Speaker 2>of the podcast that have come out since have done

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.119
<v Speaker 2>even worse, and while they do reveal more information about

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 2>what Haley and Chelsea were pursuing during those months of

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 2>the SEC investigation interim, including a reality show, there's not

0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 2>much to go on. But as a loyal listener, I

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 2>have consumed every goddamn second and I wanted to just

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 2>share this sentence that made me laugh so much from

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 2>guest Chanelle West Coast, but I really wanted to collaborate

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:16.920
<v Speaker 2>with Drake.

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 13>I just did Drake's dad's podcast like two weeks ago.

0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Actually, his dad his dad's a podcast.

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.680
<v Speaker 13>Yes, his dad is the funniest guy ever. You guys

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 13>have to meet him.

0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.399
<v Speaker 2>That is the worst brag I've ever heard in my life.

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:30.359
<v Speaker 2>But that's about all I have to say about the

0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.560
<v Speaker 2>podcast outside of that. And that video only got twelve

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:39.119
<v Speaker 2>thousand views in two days. So Hailey's company, which I

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 2>will remind you is called sixteen Minutes, now owns the

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:50.159
<v Speaker 2>IP or talk to A. But if this is any indication,

0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.639
<v Speaker 2>does that mean anything? Honestly, I don't think so. And

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.679
<v Speaker 2>so while it's safe to say that Haley has technically

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.479
<v Speaker 2>survived the court of public opinion and that she didn't

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.880
<v Speaker 2>experience a legal consequence, I'd be surprised if she manages

0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.200
<v Speaker 2>to get the relevance she had back without the support

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.439
<v Speaker 2>of a big internet piece of shit goliath like a

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Paul Brother propping her up. While I very much doubted

0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 2>that the hawkcoin team would get into much trouble given

0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the administration and the increasing lack of regulation around crypto.

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:34.000
<v Speaker 2>I did want to understand how this was possible, because

0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>for the time being, this is a grift that has

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 2>reached the highest levels of government. So are we going

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.879
<v Speaker 2>to see more of it? And how, besides staying the

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:50.199
<v Speaker 2>fuck away from crypto, can we protect ourselves when we

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.760
<v Speaker 2>come back. Investigator John Reid Stark explains why there was

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.440
<v Speaker 2>never a chance in hell that miss Haley was going

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:16.919
<v Speaker 2>to jail. Welcome back to sixteenth minute. I fell asleep

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.280
<v Speaker 2>on a plane this morning and was woken up by

0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.359
<v Speaker 2>the person next to me because I was literally man

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:27.840
<v Speaker 2>spreading what who am I when I go to sleep? Embarrassing?

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 2>I am sorry to her. And here is my interview

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:33.399
<v Speaker 2>with John Reid Stark.

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:38.880
<v Speaker 12>My name's John Stark. I'm an attorney, a cyber attorney.

0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:43.720
<v Speaker 12>I've been practicing law for but thirty five forty years now.

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:47.560
<v Speaker 12>Went to Duke Law School, then started working at a

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:50.600
<v Speaker 12>law firm, and then I joined the SEC in nineteen

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 12>ninety one, and then I went on a detail to

0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.639
<v Speaker 12>the US Attorney's Office and did street crimes, guns, drugs,

0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 12>and domestic violence for a little bit that I came

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:03.480
<v Speaker 12>back to the SEC and started doing cyber in nineteen

0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:07.000
<v Speaker 12>ninety four, became the Special Counsel for Internet Projects at

0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 12>the US Securities and Exchange Commission in the Division of Enforcement,

0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:17.600
<v Speaker 12>and then started teaching securities regulation and technology at Georgetown

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:19.240
<v Speaker 12>Law School around that time.

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 3>And after that it just kept growing and growing and growing, and.

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 12>In nineteen ninety eight they decided to create an office,

0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 12>and I was the founder of the office, the Office

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 12>of Internet Enforcement. It was a first specialized group in

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 12>the history of the SEC. And that was nineteen ninety

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.040
<v Speaker 12>eight and I was made the chief and threw that

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 12>office to a great group of attorneys, enforcement lawyers and

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 12>ran it for about eleven years, a little more than

0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 12>eleven years, and then I left there to lead the

0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:56.160
<v Speaker 12>Office of Stras Friedberg, which was a data breach response firm,

0:25:56.680 --> 0:26:01.160
<v Speaker 12>cybersecurity firm, forensic digital forensic firm, and ran their DC

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:05.320
<v Speaker 12>office for most of the next five years. And then

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:09.719
<v Speaker 12>Stras Freedberg got bought by AON, so I left and

0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:14.560
<v Speaker 12>started my own firm, John Reed start consulting in twenty

0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:15.960
<v Speaker 12>fifteen sort of does anything.

0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:17.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't have anything to do with crypto.

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 12>I don't have any financial interest in crypto, nothing short,

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 12>nothing long. Started writing about it in twenty seventeen because

0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 12>I was doing a lot of ransomware cases and I realized,

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:32.080
<v Speaker 12>but for bitcoin, there would be no ransomware. Ransomware is

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:34.639
<v Speaker 12>when a firm gets attacked and they have to pay

0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:37.439
<v Speaker 12>in order to get to decrypt their data or to

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 12>stop a company a cyber attacker from name and shaming

0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:43.919
<v Speaker 12>them from publishing their data. So yeah, you realize that

0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:46.880
<v Speaker 12>suddenly these payments which were growing. So I started writing

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 12>about it in twenty seventeen when President Trump, Maxiine Waters,

0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:53.120
<v Speaker 12>and Hillary Clinton had one thing in common. They all

0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:57.640
<v Speaker 12>hated crypto and thought it was a terrible thing and ridiculous,

0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.400
<v Speaker 12>And we're in on the record saying that they didn't

0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 12>want anything to do with it. So I thought it

0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.200
<v Speaker 12>was a non partisan issue back then, but it's not anywhere.

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:07.360
<v Speaker 2>First, well, thank you so much for being on our

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.560
<v Speaker 2>hawk Tua. I really appreciate it. In the last couple

0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 2>of months, you know, as Trump has become you know,

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 2>nothing but pro crypto. Of course, it's not really talked

0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 2>about very much that this is a change. Can you

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:23.199
<v Speaker 2>sort of walk me through what that change looked like

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:24.200
<v Speaker 2>and why it happened.

0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was.

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:29.000
<v Speaker 12>It was something that I predicted a couple of years back,

0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:32.640
<v Speaker 12>because the crypto community, it's if not for the fact

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.880
<v Speaker 12>that they love crypto. I love the community, and there's

0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 12>a lot of irony in crypto, which you I think

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:41.199
<v Speaker 12>would appreciate more than more than most people. Is for example, right,

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:44.600
<v Speaker 12>crypto was created to decentralize after the financial crisis of

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 12>two thousand and eight. Crypto was said, let's take away

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 12>from the power from the big banks and let's find

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:52.000
<v Speaker 12>something where we can go peer to peer ourselves. We

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:54.320
<v Speaker 12>don't need these big banks in the middle. Well, what

0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:56.720
<v Speaker 12>do we have today. We've replaced the big banks with

0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 12>a bunch of big crypto companies.

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 14>So that's right.

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:02.880
<v Speaker 3>The number two one. The President talks about.

0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:07.880
<v Speaker 12>This new bitcoin reserve, that strategic preserve that the government's

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:08.240
<v Speaker 12>going to have.

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:10.200
<v Speaker 3>But if you look into.

0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:15.200
<v Speaker 12>The details, what's in that reserve are assets, crypto assets

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.919
<v Speaker 12>that have been seized in accordance with asset forfeiture laws,

0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:21.639
<v Speaker 12>which any libertarian will tell you asset forfeiture laws are

0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 12>the most anti libertarian laws you could have, in the

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 12>sense that this is crypto taken from people who've been arrested.

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:30.280
<v Speaker 3>They haven't been convicted.

0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 12>Of anything, and their crypto was seized like any other

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 12>asset forfeiture. It's never an area, as a former criminal prosecutor,

0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 12>that I thought was appropriate. So sure, anyway, you can

0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 12>see lots of different ironies in crypto, but the idea

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 12>was that I think initially that this crypto was going

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 12>to undermine the dollar, that it was. No private currency

0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 12>has ever worked, and the intermediary is critical for the

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.080
<v Speaker 12>consumer and it's critical for the government. There's about a

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:03.360
<v Speaker 12>dozen or so anti money laundering laws that essentially tell

0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 12>you that you have no right to financial privacy. And

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:08.240
<v Speaker 12>I don't like that, and you don't like that. No

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 12>one likes that. But this is the reality, and the

0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 12>Anti Money Laundering Act, the Bank Secrecy Act, the USA

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 12>Patriot Act after nine to eleven, this is how the

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 12>government gets bad guys. They cut off the way that

0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 12>they can use and spend money. And that means that

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 12>you go into the bank and if you withdraw ten

0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 12>thousand dollars more than ten thousand dollars, that'll trigger a

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 12>suspicious activity report.

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:32.160
<v Speaker 3>If you do something weird, that'll.

0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:35.959
<v Speaker 12>Trigger a suspicious activity report, and your activities will be

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:39.320
<v Speaker 12>reported to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and a criminal

0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:41.960
<v Speaker 12>prosecutor or the SEC might start looking at all your

0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 12>financial records because of that. And that's just that might

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:47.800
<v Speaker 12>be something you disagree with, and I respect that. So

0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:49.560
<v Speaker 12>you can go to the government and say, hey, let's

0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:51.400
<v Speaker 12>change those laws. But those are the laws that are

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:55.720
<v Speaker 12>on the books right now. So crypto essentially bypasses all

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 12>of those laws. So, as someone said in one of

0:29:57.680 --> 0:29:59.719
<v Speaker 12>my spaces the other day, I love crypto. I can

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.120
<v Speaker 12>take five million dollars worth of it and go on

0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:03.720
<v Speaker 12>a plane and go anywhere in the world that I

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.560
<v Speaker 12>want and no one will know the difference. And so yeah,

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:10.959
<v Speaker 12>well that's not supposed to be allowed. So that's why,

0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:13.720
<v Speaker 12>you know. So I think with respect to crypto, most

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 12>people were against it. It's created incredible amounts of crime,

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 12>drug dealing, child pornography, human sex, trafficking, ransomare attacks. North

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 12>Korea has a stolen more than six billion dollars worth

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 12>of crypto and is using it to finance their nuclear

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:31.640
<v Speaker 12>weapons operation.

0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Why care about it?

0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:35.920
<v Speaker 12>What utility does it have? It went away tomorrow? Would

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 12>anyone care?

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>You compare this moment with regards to crypto, but just

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>also with the sec and where the economy is at

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 2>in general to the nineteen twenties. Can you tell me

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more about that, because I know that

0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 2>that sets off alarm bells and virtually anyone who knows

0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 2>about the stock market cris.

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 12>Sure if you look at any of the financial crises,

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:02.760
<v Speaker 12>whether it was a subprime crisis or the depression after

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 12>the twenty nine Here's what happened.

0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:07.920
<v Speaker 3>In the twenties, right, there was everybody everything.

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:11.840
<v Speaker 12>Was unregulated, and buying socks and bonds was like, you know,

0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 12>buying clothes at Target.

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 3>There was no nobody protecting you or anything.

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 12>So what happened was there was this terrible crash and

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 12>it impacted everyone.

0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:23.120
<v Speaker 3>And created this big depression.

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 12>So the government sort of said, you know what, when

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 12>it comes to investments, we're going to be different.

0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:30.120
<v Speaker 3>It's not going to be like buying anything else.

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:33.720
<v Speaker 12>So they enacted the nineteen thirty three Act, the Securities

0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 12>Acted in nineteen thirty three, which essentially said, hey, if

0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:38.000
<v Speaker 12>you're going to raise money for an investment, you have

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:41.240
<v Speaker 12>to register with the sec. Then they passed the thirty

0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:43.719
<v Speaker 12>four Act, the Securities in Exchange Act of thirty four,

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:46.280
<v Speaker 12>and they said Hey, if you're going to create a

0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:50.640
<v Speaker 12>platform to transact in these investments, then you have to

0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:52.719
<v Speaker 12>register with the SEC, and you have to be subject

0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:57.800
<v Speaker 12>to audit, inspection and examination, net capital requirements, all kinds

0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 12>of disclosure, licensure of your individuals.

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:01.640
<v Speaker 3>So that's a thirty four accent.

0:32:01.880 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 12>And then the forty Act said, hey, if you're going

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:06.760
<v Speaker 12>to bundle all this stuff into mutual fund or if

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:09.320
<v Speaker 12>you're going to give people advice about securities and about

0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 12>investments they should buy, you have to register as well.

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 12>So all of these big registration which are credibly onerous.

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.160
<v Speaker 12>It's very difficult to register with the SEC. Whether it's

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 12>an offering or whether you're a platform or anyone else,

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:25.400
<v Speaker 12>you're going to subject yourself to this financial colunoscopy at

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 12>the whenever the SEC wants, either routine or fore cause.

0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 12>But it's been pretty good, if you generally go back

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 12>to all since that time, there have been a few

0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:37.200
<v Speaker 12>bumps in the road, but generally the economy has flourished,

0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:40.880
<v Speaker 12>and this sort of environment of heavy regulation has kept

0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 12>most people honest and has also given the consumer, the customer,

0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 12>all sorts of avenues if they get scammed, you know,

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 12>they can reach out to the SEC. They can reach

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:52.440
<v Speaker 12>out to state regulators, they can reach out to the FBI.

0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 12>Everybody has jurisdiction over these entities who are So if

0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 12>they wake up in the morning like the Celsius Block

0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 12>five Voyager FTX investors did, and they can't access their

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 12>money anymore, imagine the panic that they felt. And you

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:12.720
<v Speaker 12>can read the Celsius Celsius especially the investors submitted these

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 12>affidavits and you can read how terrible it is. That

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:17.160
<v Speaker 12>was what my life was like at the SEC for

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:18.360
<v Speaker 12>the twenty or so years that.

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 3>I was there.

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.000
<v Speaker 12>I talked with investors who'd lost their life savings all

0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 12>the time, and that you start to realize there's no

0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:28.239
<v Speaker 12>standard composite or profile for those kinds of people. They

0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 12>can be sophisticated, they can be unsophisticated. They've all what

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 12>they have in common is that they let their guard down.

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.200
<v Speaker 12>Maybe they got greedy, maybe they want to get rich quick.

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 12>Maybe like the Madoff investors, they only wanted one percent

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 12>over prime.

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:42.680
<v Speaker 3>They weren't greedy, so they had comforting that.

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.440
<v Speaker 2>So that was something that really struck me about when

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.120
<v Speaker 2>I was speaking with Molly and Ed a couple of

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 2>months ago about crypto of how you know, the majority

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 2>of crypto users, it's not quite an active desperation, but

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.240
<v Speaker 2>it's someone with a little bit of pocket cash trying

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to turn a little money in to more money because

0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:05.560
<v Speaker 2>it's hard to exist. And how many like normal people

0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 2>end up getting scammed.

0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:11.720
<v Speaker 12>That's the point, Jamie, is it's always the working person

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 12>who gets scammed. In the end, everybody else gets away

0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.920
<v Speaker 12>with it. The best example, you know, i live in Washington,

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:22.040
<v Speaker 12>d C. In the DMV, and I'm a Washington Wizards fan,

0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:24.680
<v Speaker 12>and I've been a Wizards fan for whatever thirty or

0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 12>thirty five years. It's been torture, okay for myself and

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 12>my family. But the good news is I know all

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.040
<v Speaker 12>the people who work at the Wizards games because I've

0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.400
<v Speaker 12>been going to these games forever. So my son and

0:34:35.440 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 12>I are in the elevator and we see two of

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 12>the security guards and they're like, hey, Sark, I saw

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 12>you on sixty Minutes because I was talking about this

0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 12>stuff on sixty Minutes a few months ago, and I said, yeah, yeah,

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.120
<v Speaker 12>did you watch it? And they're like, oh, well, you know,

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 12>I didn't see it until the end. It was something

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:52.200
<v Speaker 12>about crypto. What were you talking about I said, well,

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.960
<v Speaker 12>you know, it's a dangerous investment. There's nothing to it.

0:34:56.160 --> 0:34:59.839
<v Speaker 12>There's no there's no substitute. It's all fear of missing.

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:01.680
<v Speaker 12>And they kind of looked at me, both of them,

0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:03.320
<v Speaker 12>and they were like, but we heard it was a

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 12>great thing to get into. So we both invested and

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.600
<v Speaker 12>I was like, all right, guys, look, I'm not here

0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 12>to tell you what to invest in.

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Or what not to invest in, but do you understand

0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:15.719
<v Speaker 3>what it is? Do you know what it is that

0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:16.200
<v Speaker 3>you're buying?

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 12>And they both like, we have no idea, And I said, well,

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:23.200
<v Speaker 12>start with no, right, start with that promise. If you

0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:25.279
<v Speaker 12>don't know what it is and you can't articulate what

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:27.920
<v Speaker 12>it is, then don't invest in it. That seems like

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.920
<v Speaker 12>a pretty basic notion that people have completely forgotten about

0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:34.960
<v Speaker 12>with this emperor has no close, no shit of crypto.

0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious you also write in your editorial about and

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.719
<v Speaker 2>something that I'm trying to understand better too, is you know,

0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>just three months ago or three or four months ago,

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>is having conversations about MS Talktua Haley Welch, who had

0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:52.000
<v Speaker 2>a meme coin launched on her behalf. She was the

0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 2>face of it. She was pushing it and there was

0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:56.320
<v Speaker 2>a rug pull. It seems like there has been a

0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:00.160
<v Speaker 2>lot that's happened since then, because when I was doing

0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 2>these interviews, people were like, well, maybe she will be

0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 2>made an example of by the SEC. You know, like

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.520
<v Speaker 2>this could be because it was getting so much press.

0:36:09.600 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Maybe this is a chance for someone to be made

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:15.840
<v Speaker 2>an example of. So I mean, from your perspective, what

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 2>has been happening with the SEC in the last couple

0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:21.600
<v Speaker 2>of months that's giving you such pause.

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:27.480
<v Speaker 12>Well, it's really incredible, and I'm not being hyperbolic.

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:28.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm not exaggerating.

0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.480
<v Speaker 12>I'm a bit of an SEC historian, having worked there

0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 12>for twenty years and taught securities regulation for both at

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:38.800
<v Speaker 12>Georgetown and Duke, and really study the agency. The about

0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:42.680
<v Speaker 12>face that the agency has done on crypto and this

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:47.399
<v Speaker 12>radical turnabout is unprecedented in SEC history. So I'll give

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:49.439
<v Speaker 12>you some of the basic things that they've done. First

0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 12>of all, in the last three or four years, the

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:55.320
<v Speaker 12>SEC has brought over two hundred enforcement actions. The SEC

0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.759
<v Speaker 12>is like any other civil litigants. They bring cases when

0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 12>somebody violates the security laws, and their civil actions you

0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 12>can refer it to criminal authorities. Which in our office

0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:07.759
<v Speaker 12>we often did and have parallel actions. The SEC is

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:10.160
<v Speaker 12>a civil agency, so they bring their cases. They bring

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 12>them in federal court in front of Article three judges,

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.560
<v Speaker 12>which are judges set by the Constitution who have life tenure,

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:18.680
<v Speaker 12>and they get to rule on whether the SEC is

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 12>right or wrong about whatever they think, whether they think

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:24.959
<v Speaker 12>something is a security where they have jurisdiction. Those things

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:27.600
<v Speaker 12>all go to judges. So the SEC had filed over

0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:30.960
<v Speaker 12>two hundred of those enforcement actions, and in my mind,

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:35.520
<v Speaker 12>they have won every single one of them. Okay, now

0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 12>that is unprecedented. Now you might say, well, John, I

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:42.600
<v Speaker 12>don't necessarily believe you. Well, I spoke at the SEC

0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:47.440
<v Speaker 12>roundtable recently and I put together an eighty nine page

0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 12>statement and in those eighty nine single space is a

0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.439
<v Speaker 12>section where I go over every single case the SEC

0:37:55.600 --> 0:37:59.320
<v Speaker 12>has litigated with respect to digital assets. I explain what

0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 12>the ruling is is, I pull out the excerpts, and

0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 12>I'm telling you the SEC has won every time Telegram, Kick,

0:38:05.560 --> 0:38:09.799
<v Speaker 12>Lbry Crack and coinbase Finance, win after win after win

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:14.640
<v Speaker 12>after win, and they'd been and these were filed that

0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 12>there were eighty or ninety them filed under J Clayton,

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:22.680
<v Speaker 12>who was President Trump's original SEC chair appointz. He's now

0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:25.440
<v Speaker 12>the new US Attorney for New York, for the Southern

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 12>District of York. But ninety of those cases, eighty or

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:30.719
<v Speaker 12>ninety of them were filed under a Republican administration.

0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 3>So then a democratic administrator.

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.919
<v Speaker 12>Came in and they created a crypto unity even they

0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:38.600
<v Speaker 12>started bringing these cases in. Oh my gosh, was the

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.480
<v Speaker 12>SEC winning. It's one thing to win the cases when

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 12>you're at the SEC. We won I think all of

0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:45.360
<v Speaker 12>our cases when I was at the SC. But I

0:38:45.520 --> 0:38:48.799
<v Speaker 12>never had cases against big law firms who were being

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 12>paid tens of million dollars to fight against. But that's

0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:54.279
<v Speaker 12>the way it was that the SEC. The SEC would

0:38:54.280 --> 0:38:58.280
<v Speaker 12>bring these cases. These people would hire former SEC enforcement directors.

0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.440
<v Speaker 12>They would litigate these cases with volumes and volumes of motions,

0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:07.640
<v Speaker 12>massive discovery, and judges as a result, whether they were

0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:10.560
<v Speaker 12>citing a motion to dismiss, which is when the SEC

0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:12.400
<v Speaker 12>files the case, someone might say, you know what, no

0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:15.800
<v Speaker 12>matter what you say, we didn't violate any laws, so

0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:17.240
<v Speaker 12>this case should be dismissed.

0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:18.320
<v Speaker 3>That's the motion to dismiss.

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.239
<v Speaker 12>Then later on after discovery, they say, look, no, matter

0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:22.800
<v Speaker 12>what you found, there's been no violation.

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:24.200
<v Speaker 3>That's summary judgment.

0:39:24.480 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 12>So the SEC was winning on motions to dismiss and

0:39:27.160 --> 0:39:31.440
<v Speaker 12>summary judgment because all these defenders were saying digital assets

0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:34.960
<v Speaker 12>are not securities, and judges were all saying, yes they are.

0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 12>Whether they're initial coin offerings, whether they're simple agreements for

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:43.960
<v Speaker 12>future tokens staffs, whether they're staking products, whether they're lending products,

0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 12>whether they're celebrity endorsement products, whether they're intermediaries trading digital assets,

0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:54.560
<v Speaker 12>whether they all should be registered as exchanges, as broker dealers,

0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:59.120
<v Speaker 12>as clearing firms. SEC is winning every single time, and

0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:02.960
<v Speaker 12>the judges are these opinions that are one hundred pages long,

0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:05.399
<v Speaker 12>like the Krack and decision one hundred pages long.

0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Not for nothing. I mean this happening under not just

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.839
<v Speaker 2>like a democratic and a Republican administration, but literally under

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 2>a previous Trump administration. It just like, yes, I don't know,

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:30.719
<v Speaker 2>so brain, brain, right.

0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 12>So here's what happened. So the SEC is on a role.

0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 12>They're suing everybody. Every day there's a new new decision,

0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.640
<v Speaker 12>every day, there's a new lawsuit. All of these companies

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:44.320
<v Speaker 12>are running, are fighting back, and it's kind of interesting

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.000
<v Speaker 12>because the SEC action used to be.

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:48.000
<v Speaker 3>A scarlet letter.

0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:50.239
<v Speaker 12>You know, if you were hit by the SEC, don't

0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:53.759
<v Speaker 12>expect to do business with anybody ever again because I

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 12>think of that kind of thing. Well, they were wearing

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 12>it like a badge of honor. Like this rogue SEC

0:40:58.160 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 12>has come after us their regulation through enforcement. They're using

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:04.600
<v Speaker 12>all these strange little catchphrases. But this is how the

0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:07.760
<v Speaker 12>SEC brings cases. There's no such thing as regulation by enforcement.

0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:11.640
<v Speaker 12>There's just enforcement. You bring cases insider trading, derivatives fraud,

0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:15.279
<v Speaker 12>unibond fraud, foreign payments fraud, whatever it is, you bring

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.080
<v Speaker 12>it under their anti fraud provision. So the SEC are

0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 12>winning all these cases. All of a sudden, President Trump

0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:27.040
<v Speaker 12>wins reelection. Acting chair Markuaeda takes over at the SEC,

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.839
<v Speaker 12>and he and Hester Purse, both of whom I knew

0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:33.120
<v Speaker 12>when I was a staff attorney there, especially Hester pers

0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:36.239
<v Speaker 12>I knew her pretty well. They had been dissenting on

0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:39.720
<v Speaker 12>all these cases the SEC was bringing, but the SEC,

0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:42.560
<v Speaker 12>the majority of the SEC commissioners were saying to bring them,

0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 12>and again they were winning everyone in court. All of

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:47.359
<v Speaker 12>a sudden, Mark you Ada comes in. Three things happen.

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:51.719
<v Speaker 12>Four things happen. Number one, he dismisses all the appeals,

0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 12>any appeal the SEC had anything like that. Gone number two,

0:41:55.840 --> 0:42:01.360
<v Speaker 12>he dismisses or pauses every single crypto related enforced action period.

0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:06.279
<v Speaker 12>Gone number three, he closes every major crypto investigation, maybe

0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.359
<v Speaker 12>even more. I don't know how many he's closed because

0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:11.480
<v Speaker 12>it's non public, but the ones that are public, they're all,

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:16.360
<v Speaker 12>you know, so excited because they're all suddenly they've transformed.

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think this story we're covering is probably

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:21.879
<v Speaker 2>a part of that wave where it just went away

0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 2>exactly February.

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.600
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, so Haktua swept up in that wave.

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 12>And then the third the fourth thing, so appeals, appeals,

0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:36.560
<v Speaker 12>active litigation, investigations has three different categories, all gone zippo.

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:38.520
<v Speaker 3>Disappeared as if they never happened.

0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 12>Then the crypto unit, which the SEC had beefed up

0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:45.759
<v Speaker 12>and celebrated with all kinds of fanfare, is shut down

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.120
<v Speaker 12>and is given a new name called the cyber Unit.

0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 12>The head of that crypto unit, who was the head

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 12>of litigation, who had won all these cases, was on

0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 12>all the litigation. He was transferred to the Office of

0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.279
<v Speaker 12>Information Technology. I don't know what he's doing there. He's

0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:02.840
<v Speaker 12>like fixing prints, are picking out drivers for printers. He's gone,

0:43:02.960 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 12>he's disappeared gone. There was one, There were two co

0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:09.600
<v Speaker 12>heads of the crypto unit. One of them disappeared gone.

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 12>At least twenty or thirty people in the crypto unit

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.839
<v Speaker 12>disappeared gone. I don't know if they've retired. I don't

0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:19.040
<v Speaker 12>know what they're doing the new cyber unit. She spoke

0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:24.680
<v Speaker 12>at our conference last week, and very nice lady Laura Delandria.

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:26.040
<v Speaker 3>I think it's her name of Delaired.

0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:29.120
<v Speaker 12>Delaired might pronounce it wrong, and she really spoke about

0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:30.960
<v Speaker 12>what they're not doing, which is, you know, we're not

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:33.040
<v Speaker 12>bringing these kinds of cases, we're not doing this kind

0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:36.200
<v Speaker 12>of work. We're working towards retail investors. I'm not sure

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.200
<v Speaker 12>what she meant by that, but all I can tell you.

0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 12>And then the SEC started issuing these regulatory pronouncements. Some

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 12>of them they just would put on Twitter on X

0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:45.960
<v Speaker 12>and they would have said they said. One of them

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:50.160
<v Speaker 12>was mean coins are not securities. Boom overdone so any

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 12>meme coin and that was done, you know, you know,

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:56.960
<v Speaker 12>I don't know. A week or two after President Trump

0:43:57.160 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 12>and Milania Trump had launched their Mean coin.

0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 3>So the SEC said, are not securities?

0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:03.759
<v Speaker 2>That blows my mind.

0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.320
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, let's be clear here though. You know, President Trump

0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.879
<v Speaker 12>campaigned to be the bitcoin president. He campaigned to throw

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:13.560
<v Speaker 12>out Gary Gensler. He campaigned to make the United States

0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:17.080
<v Speaker 12>the crypto capital of the world. And he's he's this

0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:19.640
<v Speaker 12>is a promise made and a promise kept. You can't

0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:22.759
<v Speaker 12>disagree with that. He was very clear what he was

0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:26.040
<v Speaker 12>going to do. These crypto firms, they weren't winning in court,

0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:28.960
<v Speaker 12>but they spent about two hundred million to win the

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 12>elections and they did.

0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:31.320
<v Speaker 3>They did it brilliantly.

0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:36.120
<v Speaker 12>They destroyed anyone who was anti crypto, just about everyone.

0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 12>I mean, I think Elizabeth Warren survived. A few of

0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:42.520
<v Speaker 12>them survived, but most of them did not survive. And

0:44:43.360 --> 0:44:46.960
<v Speaker 12>so this is the president's mandate. You can't disagree with

0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:47.600
<v Speaker 12>that notion.

0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.879
<v Speaker 3>I don't like it. You know, it's bad for the world.

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's certainly been successful.

0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:55.440
<v Speaker 3>He said this is what he's going to do, and

0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:59.120
<v Speaker 3>he's doing it, so, you know, and he's doing it

0:44:59.200 --> 0:44:59.839
<v Speaker 3>through the SEC.

0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:03.600
<v Speaker 12>Now, the SEC historically has never done this kind of

0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:08.719
<v Speaker 12>turnaround on anything ever, So it's very and mean coins

0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 12>is a perfect sample now one thing about mean points

0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:12.919
<v Speaker 12>that I would say.

0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:16.279
<v Speaker 3>So recently there was an article.

0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:20.440
<v Speaker 12>It was just about everywhere about if you bought the

0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:23.560
<v Speaker 12>president's meme coin, and you were one of the top

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:27.319
<v Speaker 12>two hundred and twenty purchasers of his meme coin, then

0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:29.840
<v Speaker 12>you would get access to a special party he was

0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:32.480
<v Speaker 12>having and get a tour of the White House. Now

0:45:33.120 --> 0:45:36.320
<v Speaker 12>you know, here's the irony of this. Again more irony,

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:38.319
<v Speaker 12>which again I've studied you, so I know how much

0:45:38.360 --> 0:45:42.239
<v Speaker 12>you love irony. Okay, so this is another great one.

0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:45.160
<v Speaker 12>So my view has always been crypto has no utility,

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:47.759
<v Speaker 12>that if it went away tomorrow, blockchain is a bunch

0:45:47.800 --> 0:45:50.560
<v Speaker 12>of bunk, a bunch of nonsense. You know, you spoke

0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 12>with Molly White and Zichron. You read the concern dot

0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:58.160
<v Speaker 12>tech letter. The blockchain is just a glorified append only

0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:02.400
<v Speaker 12>limited writer spreadsheet. It's not an iPhone. It's not transformative,

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 12>it's not innovation. None of this is innovation. However, I

0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:09.840
<v Speaker 12>might be wrong about utility because the reality is crypto

0:46:10.239 --> 0:46:12.920
<v Speaker 12>is emerging with utility number one. Okay, it has utility

0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:15.120
<v Speaker 12>for criminals, but I don't know if that's a bona

0:46:15.120 --> 0:46:18.680
<v Speaker 12>fide utility. But the president is now created a utility

0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:21.279
<v Speaker 12>because he's saying, hey, buy my mean coin and you're

0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:22.320
<v Speaker 12>going to get access.

0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:23.920
<v Speaker 3>Whether that's lawful or not.

0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:26.399
<v Speaker 12>I'm not an expert in any of that, but he's

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:31.040
<v Speaker 12>created a utility for his meme coins now, the hawk

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:31.919
<v Speaker 12>Tua meme coin.

0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:34.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't see every one of these is a facts

0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:37.040
<v Speaker 3>and circumstance case. I don't see that having any utility.

0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:39.680
<v Speaker 12>But if she didn't know, if she is said at

0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:43.719
<v Speaker 12>the beginning, the top two hundred people will get to

0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:48.480
<v Speaker 12>meet me and come and watch my podcast live, then

0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:51.360
<v Speaker 12>you can sort of say, I mean, here's the thing, Jamie,

0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:55.400
<v Speaker 12>is that the SEC now believes, suddenly, out of nowhere,

0:46:56.120 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 12>that crypto is a collectible. Okay, that it's just like

0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:05.560
<v Speaker 12>a collectible. It's not this mathematical computational equation, okay, this

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:11.680
<v Speaker 12>bladder of code, an unsolvable problem of code, is a collectible. Now,

0:47:12.320 --> 0:47:13.799
<v Speaker 12>I can tell you. I can give you three quick

0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:16.960
<v Speaker 12>reasons why it's not a collectible. Number one because when

0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:19.800
<v Speaker 12>I talked about it on sixty Minutes, having no utility,

0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:23.400
<v Speaker 12>I was talking about the XRP token. I got death threats.

0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 12>My family got death threats. They said, they're going to

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:28.319
<v Speaker 12>burn my house down. If I were talking about rolexes

0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:30.720
<v Speaker 12>and Pokemon cards, I don't think I would.

0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.239
<v Speaker 3>Have gotten that ruction. So that's number one.

0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.480
<v Speaker 12>Number two, if you go to your brokerage account, right

0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:42.759
<v Speaker 12>whatever it is, Robinhood or wherever you're buying your secure investments,

0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:46.600
<v Speaker 12>you'll go to the tab and you'll see you know, stocks, bonds,

0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 12>maybe options, and then you'll see something that says crypto.

0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:54.320
<v Speaker 3>So you don't see.

0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:57.800
<v Speaker 12>Pokemon cards, Beatie babies, and American girl dolls on that

0:47:57.920 --> 0:47:58.640
<v Speaker 12>pulldown screen.

0:47:58.680 --> 0:47:59.839
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So that's the second reason.

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:03.759
<v Speaker 12>The third reason is is that every single Article three

0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:06.960
<v Speaker 12>judge that has ever reviewed this idea of whether a

0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:11.080
<v Speaker 12>digital asset is a security and whatever iteration be it, ico,

0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.480
<v Speaker 12>simple Agreement for future token staking, lending, all those things

0:48:14.520 --> 0:48:17.440
<v Speaker 12>I mentioned before, has said it's a security and so

0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:21.640
<v Speaker 12>and those Article three judges, the mark uata is acting

0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:25.080
<v Speaker 12>SEC chair can't disappear those decisions.

0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:26.080
<v Speaker 3>They're on the books.

0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:31.360
<v Speaker 12>So the SEC has just chosen to ignore them, to abandon,

0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:34.360
<v Speaker 12>to abdicate its mission of investor protection.

0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:35.279
<v Speaker 3>I talked about the.

0:48:35.320 --> 0:48:39.800
<v Speaker 12>Crash and the depression that followed in twenty nine and

0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:42.520
<v Speaker 12>the SEC was created to protect investors.

0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:45.200
<v Speaker 3>They're not created, they're not supposed to protect collectors.

0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:49.640
<v Speaker 12>So their idea is, hey, these digital assets, they're collectibles.

0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:54.399
<v Speaker 12>It's caveat empt tour and it's a it's a walking dead,

0:48:54.640 --> 0:49:01.160
<v Speaker 12>post apocalyptic marketplace where there's no protection anything, and it's

0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:02.560
<v Speaker 12>all driven by fomo.

0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:06.239
<v Speaker 3>There's no earnings, there's no there's no balance sheet, there's

0:49:06.280 --> 0:49:07.279
<v Speaker 3>nothing you can look at.

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.400
<v Speaker 12>You can't get their ten ques or their ten ks

0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:12.480
<v Speaker 12>or other SEC filings because.

0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:15.200
<v Speaker 3>There aren't any. So it's just fomo.

0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:18.040
<v Speaker 12>You're just betting that someone else is going to be

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:20.920
<v Speaker 12>dumb enough to buy this and it's going to go up.

0:49:21.040 --> 0:49:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's it, and gosh, that's so so. In short,

0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:31.600
<v Speaker 2>crypto is being effectively treated by the SEC right now

0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:33.000
<v Speaker 2>as if it's Beanie Baby.

0:49:32.840 --> 0:49:35.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, or American Crazy.

0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:38.320
<v Speaker 12>I'm not sure Beanie Babies, American Girl dolls, or Pokemon

0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:39.960
<v Speaker 12>cards that would be the three categories.

0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:45.520
<v Speaker 2>People are being kind of professionally disappeared from that that

0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:48.400
<v Speaker 2>we're working in the Bided administration just a couple of

0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.920
<v Speaker 2>months ago. Has there been I mean, I know you

0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:54.080
<v Speaker 2>have sort of been at the forefront of this, but

0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:57.400
<v Speaker 2>has there been a lot of people speaking out and

0:49:57.600 --> 0:49:59.799
<v Speaker 2>if not, why you.

0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Know, Oh, there's a good reason. This is actually very

0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:02.880
<v Speaker 3>easy question.

0:50:03.920 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 12>Every single SEC lawyer, most of them go out into

0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:09.879
<v Speaker 12>private practice when they leave the SEC and they work

0:50:09.920 --> 0:50:12.600
<v Speaker 12>for a big law firm, or they work for a

0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:15.399
<v Speaker 12>company whatever, But most of the time they go work

0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:17.799
<v Speaker 12>for a big law firm. And big law firms make

0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:21.040
<v Speaker 12>huge amounts of dollars from all these digital asset companies,

0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:25.040
<v Speaker 12>and so you have a fiduciary responsibility to your partners.

0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:27.319
<v Speaker 12>So you won't hear a lot of lawyer a lot

0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:32.200
<v Speaker 12>of lawyers unless they're law professors or just You've got

0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:36.120
<v Speaker 12>to find someone who's independent and objective to hear what

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:37.440
<v Speaker 12>their opinion is on crypto.

0:50:37.600 --> 0:50:38.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm independent and objective.

0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:41.160
<v Speaker 12>You can disagree with me, but I don't make a

0:50:41.280 --> 0:50:44.040
<v Speaker 12>nickel from my opinion, not a penny, not a dime.

0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.400
<v Speaker 12>All I get is grief from having this opinion. Nothing

0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:49.600
<v Speaker 12>more right. You called me to ask me to do this,

0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:53.560
<v Speaker 12>and I'm always very reluctant. For I'm sure you can

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.520
<v Speaker 12>attest I'm always reluctant. It's like, you know, I'm chasing

0:50:56.600 --> 0:51:00.560
<v Speaker 12>windmills here and I'm all alone because none of my

0:51:00.719 --> 0:51:03.239
<v Speaker 12>former sec colleagues who were perfectly happy to tell me

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:04.560
<v Speaker 12>to whisper in my ear.

0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:06.240
<v Speaker 3>You're absolutely right about crypto.

0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.960
<v Speaker 12>None of them are in a situation where they can say,

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 12>where they can speak out, So very few lawyers will

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:17.160
<v Speaker 12>speak out against it. And from a political standpoint, it

0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:20.960
<v Speaker 12>would be suicide to speak out against crypto. Only if

0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:23.520
<v Speaker 12>you're the most one of the strongest politicians will you

0:51:23.680 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 12>survive because the crypto lobby is incredibly well capitalized. They've

0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:31.640
<v Speaker 12>already set aside one or two hundred million for the midterms,

0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:34.680
<v Speaker 12>So fail not at your peril if you get out

0:51:34.840 --> 0:51:38.799
<v Speaker 12>and speak against crypto and your political congress. I mean,

0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.239
<v Speaker 12>why not just say, hey, if it's innovation, I'm all

0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:42.800
<v Speaker 12>for it, and I want it to be done the

0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.959
<v Speaker 12>right way. That's a that's a way to avoid getting

0:51:46.000 --> 0:51:47.680
<v Speaker 12>these people from putting a target on that.

0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:50.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sure, it's so funny you.

0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:52.680
<v Speaker 12>Say it's innovation, but in the rest of the sentence

0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:55.200
<v Speaker 12>you say it's an American girl doll or a beanie baby.

0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:57.680
<v Speaker 3>So you can't have it both ways.

0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:01.520
<v Speaker 12>But they want it both ways, and so they'll masquerate

0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 12>it as innovation and they'll use that as they're sort

0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:08.440
<v Speaker 12>of subterfuge to get you thinking. Well, you know, and

0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:12.760
<v Speaker 12>and and you know, you can't really blame the president

0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:14.200
<v Speaker 12>because he came out and he said he was going

0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 12>to do this, and he's doing it. So as much

0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.840
<v Speaker 12>as you might this like what he believes in the

0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:22.719
<v Speaker 12>reality is he made it very clear this is what

0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:24.920
<v Speaker 12>he was going to do. And these people have been

0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:28.359
<v Speaker 12>cut loose and they're running wild in Washington and they

0:52:28.480 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 12>own the city. They really do better than any other

0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:34.520
<v Speaker 12>lobbying group in the history of the world. And Molly White,

0:52:34.520 --> 0:52:36.840
<v Speaker 12>I know you mentioned her, She's done some very meticulous

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.640
<v Speaker 12>studies on all of this and it's it's mind blowing.

0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:42.840
<v Speaker 12>But you know, that's the way our political system works.

0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:45.239
<v Speaker 12>So again that's not my area of expertise. Maybe that

0:52:45.360 --> 0:52:47.400
<v Speaker 12>needs to be fixed. Everyone seems to agree that it

0:52:47.480 --> 0:52:50.719
<v Speaker 12>should be. But right now these people are pedal extraordinary

0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:53.440
<v Speaker 12>influence and you don't see it if you watch. Patrick

0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:56.720
<v Speaker 12>Boyle on YouTube did this really great thing on crypto

0:52:56.800 --> 0:52:59.480
<v Speaker 12>where he just went over every campaign that the Crypto

0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:03.080
<v Speaker 12>Lobby was supporting and showed how you wouldn't really know

0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:06.560
<v Speaker 12>that they were supporting them. So they do this brilliantly.

0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:09.360
<v Speaker 12>I mean, they wrote there. They wrote their own playbook again.

0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:11.600
<v Speaker 12>You know you got a hand to them. You know,

0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:14.080
<v Speaker 12>they wrote their own playbook. They were losing in front

0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:17.400
<v Speaker 12>of these judges over and over again, and they found

0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.920
<v Speaker 12>a way to win. And they won big. They won huge.

0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.759
<v Speaker 12>They got rid of Shared Brown in Ohio. They spent

0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:25.160
<v Speaker 12>forty million dollars.

0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:31.600
<v Speaker 2>If this remains unchecked, if most people who could potentially

0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:33.879
<v Speaker 2>speak up against this feel like their hands are tied

0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:36.600
<v Speaker 2>or their future is sabotage by speaking up about this,

0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:39.160
<v Speaker 2>what are we looking at?

0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:43.440
<v Speaker 12>Well, you know, if you're a financial historian, you know

0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:46.240
<v Speaker 12>that all this is crypto is one big Ponzi scheme.

0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:50.120
<v Speaker 12>I don't see how anyone can argue against that, because again,

0:53:50.600 --> 0:53:50.799
<v Speaker 12>but what.

0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:52.040
<v Speaker 2>If it was an American girl?

0:53:52.120 --> 0:53:55.280
<v Speaker 12>Well, I get it, but in terms of Ponzi schemes,

0:53:55.560 --> 0:53:58.880
<v Speaker 12>and a Ponzi scheme is just where you're just buying again,

0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:01.000
<v Speaker 12>trying to beat out everyone out, and it's like a

0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:02.080
<v Speaker 12>game of musical chairs.

0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:03.800
<v Speaker 3>You don't want to be the last person holding it.

0:54:04.280 --> 0:54:07.799
<v Speaker 12>So if the Ponzi scheme keeps going, sooner or later,

0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:13.359
<v Speaker 12>all Ponzi schemes crash. They crash typically when things get bad.

0:54:13.480 --> 0:54:17.520
<v Speaker 12>If we were to have a recession, maybe, for example,

0:54:17.600 --> 0:54:20.759
<v Speaker 12>because of these tariffs we get the country goes into

0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.960
<v Speaker 12>a discression, a depression, but the economic needs has been

0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:28.320
<v Speaker 12>very good lately. But suppose the country goes into a depression.

0:54:28.800 --> 0:54:30.799
<v Speaker 12>People generally this is what I saw a lot at

0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:36.440
<v Speaker 12>the SEC When things get bad, people will flee to

0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:39.919
<v Speaker 12>safety and they will take you. They will move out

0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:44.200
<v Speaker 12>of their most risky alternative investments. And everybody agrees, no

0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:47.600
<v Speaker 12>matter what how fanatical you are about crypto, that it's

0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:50.880
<v Speaker 12>it's a risky alternative investment. You can't you can't get

0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:54.920
<v Speaker 12>anyone to not admit that it's like gambling. So as

0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:57.880
<v Speaker 12>soon as things go south with the economy, or the

0:54:57.960 --> 0:55:00.880
<v Speaker 12>economy hits a recession, you know, with all the ransomware

0:55:00.920 --> 0:55:03.040
<v Speaker 12>attacks growing and growing in sophistication.

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.560
<v Speaker 3>When I taught at Duke Law School and there.

0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:11.000
<v Speaker 12>Was the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack where the Colonial Pipeline

0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:13.480
<v Speaker 12>was shut down, you couldn't get gas in North Carolina.

0:55:13.520 --> 0:55:16.000
<v Speaker 12>You couldn't get home from the airport, couldn't get a taxi,

0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:18.040
<v Speaker 12>couldn't get an ubercar, couldn't get a rental car.

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:19.560
<v Speaker 3>There was no gas anywhere.

0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:21.520
<v Speaker 12>And I got to tell you it started to get

0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:25.640
<v Speaker 12>a little scary, you know, not just economically, but suddenly

0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:27.920
<v Speaker 12>you were thinking, you know, the police can't get to

0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:28.880
<v Speaker 12>my house, you know.

0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:33.040
<v Speaker 3>And it just happens just over a few days. So

0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:34.360
<v Speaker 3>if these ransomware.

0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:40.160
<v Speaker 12>Attacks hit infrastructure or hit hospitals, when those things kind

0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:43.480
<v Speaker 12>of start happening, I think governments like the National Security

0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:45.880
<v Speaker 12>Division will wake up at the Department of Justice and say,

0:55:45.920 --> 0:55:48.439
<v Speaker 12>we've got to stop the crypto, because that's what doing

0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:51.120
<v Speaker 12>it all. If North Korea is able to build these

0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:55.000
<v Speaker 12>nuclear weapons facilities purely because of crypto, which it seems

0:55:55.120 --> 0:55:57.680
<v Speaker 12>like they are with the six billion dollars that they've stolen,

0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:00.719
<v Speaker 12>think about that's the greatest theft in the history of

0:56:00.800 --> 0:56:04.719
<v Speaker 12>the world. The banking regulators, the FDIC, the FED, the

0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:07.680
<v Speaker 12>Office of the Controller of the Currency have been very

0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:12.600
<v Speaker 12>very strict about allowing banks, traditional financial institutions from doing

0:56:12.680 --> 0:56:15.319
<v Speaker 12>anything having to do with crypto. The crypto firms called

0:56:15.360 --> 0:56:18.839
<v Speaker 12>this operation choke Hold, and I think that's a fair name,

0:56:19.400 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 12>but I think it's what our name because it's exactly

0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:22.759
<v Speaker 12>what made sense.

0:56:23.200 --> 0:56:23.360
<v Speaker 11>You know.

0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:26.560
<v Speaker 12>The banking regulators, they didn't prohibit these entities from doing them,

0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:29.440
<v Speaker 12>but They said to them, if you do anything involving crypto,

0:56:29.680 --> 0:56:31.640
<v Speaker 12>we're going to come in and examine you, and there's

0:56:31.680 --> 0:56:34.160
<v Speaker 12>no way to you know, these crypto are such dark markets.

0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:36.520
<v Speaker 3>You don't know who any of these depositors are. You

0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:38.319
<v Speaker 3>don't know what's going on in these marketplace, you don't

0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:40.400
<v Speaker 3>know where on this pricing. So the choke hold was

0:56:40.480 --> 0:56:41.440
<v Speaker 3>perfectly legitimate.

0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:44.239
<v Speaker 12>Now the Trump administration has come in in all of

0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:48.000
<v Speaker 12>those guardrails, from the Office of the Controller to the Conrency,

0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.719
<v Speaker 12>from the FDIC, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and from

0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:56.080
<v Speaker 12>the Federal Reserve have all been lifted. Okay, so suddenly

0:56:56.760 --> 0:56:59.680
<v Speaker 12>banks can get in the business of selling crypto Morgan

0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:02.279
<v Speaker 12>stand Only. For example, I read an article, I don't

0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 12>know if this is true, that fifteen thousand of their

0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 12>brokers are going to be cut loose to sell crypto.

0:57:07.600 --> 0:57:10.319
<v Speaker 12>So if you're suddenly like, what can a broker say

0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:13.920
<v Speaker 12>to you to buy crypto other than buy this crypto

0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:17.040
<v Speaker 12>it's an asset, I don't understand, but it might go

0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:19.440
<v Speaker 12>up because a lot of stupid people buy it. Anything

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:22.360
<v Speaker 12>else that's said. If you say it's a store of value,

0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:25.240
<v Speaker 12>that's not true. If you say it's got great potential,

0:57:25.320 --> 0:57:27.120
<v Speaker 12>that's not true. If you say it's an innovation, that's

0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:29.520
<v Speaker 12>not true. If you say it's a great market, that's

0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:32.160
<v Speaker 12>not true. But they're going to you know, brokers are

0:57:32.280 --> 0:57:36.160
<v Speaker 12>great at selling products to the elderly, to the people

0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:40.600
<v Speaker 12>who don't understand, and even to the big institutions. So

0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:44.840
<v Speaker 12>these bogus investments are going to be peddled everywhere, just

0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:49.840
<v Speaker 12>like subprime derivative instruments, and that can as a contagion,

0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:53.840
<v Speaker 12>spread across the global financial marketplace. So those are the

0:57:53.920 --> 0:57:57.480
<v Speaker 12>various scenario. It's a big ransomware attack, of financial contagion,

0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:02.400
<v Speaker 12>or just a recession. Those three things will trigger a

0:58:02.520 --> 0:58:05.520
<v Speaker 12>pendulum swing in the other direction, and maybe the SEC

0:58:05.680 --> 0:58:08.600
<v Speaker 12>will wake up and decide not to abdicate its mission

0:58:08.640 --> 0:58:13.280
<v Speaker 12>of investor protection because you know, they'll realize that, oh

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.560
<v Speaker 12>my gosh, investor, we're here to protect investors. Yet they're

0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:21.240
<v Speaker 12>again they've labeled these people as collectors, and that's really

0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:24.280
<v Speaker 12>not right. Everybody knows that's not right. It doesn't pass

0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:27.720
<v Speaker 12>a straight face test. We have to protect people because

0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:30.600
<v Speaker 12>not just to protect them themselves, but it also creates

0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 12>systemic risks. So you might just say, I was on

0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:35.960
<v Speaker 12>a panel just a few weeks ago at George Mason

0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.480
<v Speaker 12>University and one of the professors is like, go ahead and.

0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:40.240
<v Speaker 3>Do with what your crypto, Go have your fun. I

0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:42.520
<v Speaker 3>don't care. It's not going to impact me. And that's

0:58:42.600 --> 0:58:43.080
<v Speaker 3>just wrong.

0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:47.080
<v Speaker 12>You know, it will impack you because of the crime

0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:50.080
<v Speaker 12>associated with it, and it'll impact you when it all

0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:54.200
<v Speaker 12>comes crashing down and your four oh one k is

0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:56.560
<v Speaker 12>suddenly work half what it was, or you're five twenty

0:58:56.640 --> 0:58:58.560
<v Speaker 12>nine for your kids is worth half what it was,

0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:01.200
<v Speaker 12>and you're freaking out because how are you going to

0:59:01.240 --> 0:59:03.160
<v Speaker 12>afford to retire? How are you going to afford to

0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:06.360
<v Speaker 12>pay for your kids' education? And then you want you

0:59:06.560 --> 0:59:10.600
<v Speaker 12>want accountability, and you're going to say where was the SEC?

0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:13.120
<v Speaker 12>And you're going to like you say, the SEC was

0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:19.320
<v Speaker 12>watching Beatie Baby and Pokemon movies and not considering the

0:59:19.480 --> 0:59:22.880
<v Speaker 12>reality of their mission, which is to protect investors. And

0:59:22.920 --> 0:59:27.680
<v Speaker 12>that's a sacrisanct mission that they've just abandoned for political

0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:32.440
<v Speaker 12>reasons that you know, historically, whether you're publican or Democrat,

0:59:32.520 --> 0:59:37.040
<v Speaker 12>it's really unsettling and disturbing to be toast that.

0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to John read Stark. You can

0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:44.080
<v Speaker 2>follow his work at the links in the description, and

0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:48.720
<v Speaker 2>before we get into the concluding thoughts on this second,

0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:51.760
<v Speaker 2>hank to a series. This is Jamie from the Future

0:59:51.920 --> 0:59:55.919
<v Speaker 2>the day before the podcast comes out, telling you one

0:59:56.240 --> 1:00:00.600
<v Speaker 2>last thing somehow, which is that as Hailey Wells continues

1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:04.160
<v Speaker 2>to hard launch herself back into the mainstream, she's been

1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:07.840
<v Speaker 2>doing the rounds in press with a new publicist, not

1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:10.680
<v Speaker 2>the one that got her into the cryptoscam, and one

1:00:10.800 --> 1:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>interview came out during the writing of this episode that

1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:16.640
<v Speaker 2>I think is worth mentioning. So in addition to the

1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:20.520
<v Speaker 2>fact that Haley is indeed returning to celebrity Poker and

1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 2>already has at the time I'm recording this, which there's

1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:28.000
<v Speaker 2>that there was an interview published on May second in

1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Vanity Fair with writer Chris Murphy, an article that even

1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:35.800
<v Speaker 2>features a photoshoot of Hailey wearing a little white lace

1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:41.040
<v Speaker 2>dress in what I absolutely am certain is an Airbnb

1:00:41.440 --> 1:00:43.880
<v Speaker 2>rented for the photo shoot. It is the fakest looking

1:00:43.920 --> 1:00:46.040
<v Speaker 2>place in the world. And I wanted to share two

1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:50.320
<v Speaker 2>bits of this interview that are relevant. So first, Hayley

1:00:50.520 --> 1:00:53.920
<v Speaker 2>does do this interview with her new publicist at her

1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:58.160
<v Speaker 2>side and appears to be allowed to talk about the

1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:02.280
<v Speaker 2>crypto scandal in public for the first time. From that,

1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Chris Murphy asks, what have you learned from that experience?

1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Do you have anything to say to the people who

1:01:08.600 --> 1:01:12.360
<v Speaker 2>lost their money? Hailey replies, I would say personally what

1:01:12.480 --> 1:01:15.600
<v Speaker 2>I learned from it. Let's see. I don't know. I

1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:18.560
<v Speaker 2>just feel really bad for anybody that lost money. All

1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:21.000
<v Speaker 2>my comments, if you read those, people are like, oh,

1:01:21.120 --> 1:01:23.040
<v Speaker 2>well I lost a lot of money in this. Now

1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:24.720
<v Speaker 2>my kids have to go without stuff.

1:01:25.200 --> 1:01:25.560
<v Speaker 12>I don't know.

1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:29.200
<v Speaker 2>It makes me feel like really sorry for it. Chris

1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Murphy asks, after the crypto scandal you went off the grid.

1:01:33.320 --> 1:01:35.640
<v Speaker 2>What were you doing for those three months? Where were you?

1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Hailey replies, Oh, I hate to say this, but this

1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:42.880
<v Speaker 2>was a much needed mental health Just what do you

1:01:43.000 --> 1:01:45.320
<v Speaker 2>call it? A mental health break? I guess is what

1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you can call it. Okay, So I think it's interesting

1:01:49.040 --> 1:01:52.640
<v Speaker 2>that there's a lot of sorris in here, But of

1:01:52.760 --> 1:01:56.320
<v Speaker 2>course the sorries don't have to mean anything because the

1:01:56.600 --> 1:02:01.360
<v Speaker 2>SEC investigation is closed, no one, including Haley, is required

1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:04.000
<v Speaker 2>to make this right on behalf of people who lost money,

1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:09.480
<v Speaker 2>So her reply is sawey and the interview closes with

1:02:09.680 --> 1:02:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Chris Murphy asking why, as someone who is so sowy

1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:17.720
<v Speaker 2>about the krypto scam, why Haley Welch is about to

1:02:17.840 --> 1:02:23.040
<v Speaker 2>head to Las Vegas to play celebrity poker. Here's that exchange.

1:02:23.480 --> 1:02:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Chris Murphy says, you're playing in a celebrity poker tournament

1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.280
<v Speaker 2>fresh off the crypto scandal. Do you have anything to

1:02:29.360 --> 1:02:32.480
<v Speaker 2>say about those optics gambling after some people lost their

1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:35.920
<v Speaker 2>money on your coin? Haley does not reply here. Her

1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:40.480
<v Speaker 2>publicist does, replying, say the question again. Sorry, I'm just confused,

1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Chris Murphy says, some might say that it's not a

1:02:43.840 --> 1:02:47.120
<v Speaker 2>great look to be gambling so soon after a money

1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:50.640
<v Speaker 2>related scandal. I'm just wondering if Haley has anything to

1:02:50.760 --> 1:02:54.760
<v Speaker 2>say to that or has a response. Once again, Haley's

1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:58.919
<v Speaker 2>publicist replies, Oh, we're gonna skip over that one. Aye

1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.280
<v Speaker 2>ya yai. Okay, that's it for future, Jamie. Let's close

1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:07.320
<v Speaker 2>out the episode, and that, I promise is the last

1:03:07.360 --> 1:03:09.439
<v Speaker 2>you're going to hear of Hailey Welch on this show.

1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:13.439
<v Speaker 2>For my own mental health, if nothing else. At this point,

1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:16.720
<v Speaker 2>she has made it clear that she is not ready

1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:22.040
<v Speaker 2>for her fifteen minutes to end, but man if the

1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:26.120
<v Speaker 2>best guest for your comeback is the third most successful

1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:30.400
<v Speaker 2>co creator of the Lunchables with Mold, and if the

1:03:30.560 --> 1:03:34.760
<v Speaker 2>numbers and attention that the return pulled in, it's going

1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:37.640
<v Speaker 2>to be a difficult road ahead. So while I do

1:03:37.800 --> 1:03:41.080
<v Speaker 2>believe that Hailey Welch is very much a sign of

1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:44.600
<v Speaker 2>the times, a young woman who had no social media

1:03:44.720 --> 1:03:50.240
<v Speaker 2>aspirations or aspirations to fame being launched into prominence against

1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:55.600
<v Speaker 2>her will signs that shady ass managers who immediately capitalized

1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:59.400
<v Speaker 2>of and disposed of her, defrauding regular people out of

1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:03.720
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process. But even

1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:07.440
<v Speaker 2>as an individual, there is a kind of desperation to

1:04:07.560 --> 1:04:11.720
<v Speaker 2>this comeback that is hard to watch. And call me naive,

1:04:12.080 --> 1:04:14.480
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure that plenty of people on the Reddit

1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:17.240
<v Speaker 2>board will, But I still think that this is a

1:04:17.360 --> 1:04:22.920
<v Speaker 2>story about class more than anything, because it's hard to

1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:27.760
<v Speaker 2>deny that Haley is a certified scammer or at best

1:04:28.160 --> 1:04:33.280
<v Speaker 2>scammer accomplice at this point, and unfortunately coming from a

1:04:33.320 --> 1:04:37.480
<v Speaker 2>low income family in Tennessee, I think the financial security

1:04:37.760 --> 1:04:40.080
<v Speaker 2>and not having to return to her job at a

1:04:40.160 --> 1:04:43.960
<v Speaker 2>spring factory is just as relevant to the story as

1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the idea that she might be kind of hooked on

1:04:47.000 --> 1:04:49.720
<v Speaker 2>the attention and might not be ready for the big

1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:53.000
<v Speaker 2>moment to end. There is more than one thing going

1:04:53.080 --> 1:04:57.640
<v Speaker 2>on here, and anyone who tells you otherwise is trying

1:04:57.760 --> 1:05:01.800
<v Speaker 2>to just get your clicks. But the fifteen minutes are

1:05:01.960 --> 1:05:05.360
<v Speaker 2>probably over, and as we talk about on this show

1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:09.360
<v Speaker 2>every week, the fifteen minutes being over has a way

1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:13.680
<v Speaker 2>of breaking someone's brain. But careers have highs and lows,

1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:17.800
<v Speaker 2>and I can't say with confidence that Haley doesn't have

1:05:18.240 --> 1:05:21.360
<v Speaker 2>a second act in her. We've seen it before and

1:05:21.520 --> 1:05:25.680
<v Speaker 2>many people life is long, right, But for the time being,

1:05:26.440 --> 1:05:29.439
<v Speaker 2>the most depressing part of all of that is, even

1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:33.880
<v Speaker 2>with these already diminishing returns, I don't think that Haley

1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:36.720
<v Speaker 2>or any of the parasites that remain on her team

1:05:37.360 --> 1:05:41.720
<v Speaker 2>are gonna stop chasing whatever the latest influencer grift is.

1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:45.240
<v Speaker 2>It seems like they're in too deep. And the reason

1:05:45.280 --> 1:05:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that is because there's this one part of

1:05:49.560 --> 1:05:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the KSI interview on the return episode where Haley all

1:05:54.760 --> 1:05:56.480
<v Speaker 2>but confirms this, do.

1:05:56.480 --> 1:05:57.479
<v Speaker 5>You ever think I could box?

1:05:58.240 --> 1:05:59.400
<v Speaker 11>Would you want to box? I?

1:05:59.440 --> 1:05:59.720
<v Speaker 14>Actually?

1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:00.800
<v Speaker 11>Really?

1:06:01.080 --> 1:06:02.240
<v Speaker 2>You gotta give her some tips?

1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:03.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I need some tips.

1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:04.560
<v Speaker 6>You can just try me.

1:06:07.560 --> 1:06:09.440
<v Speaker 2>They brought up bad baby, but that is.

1:06:11.120 --> 1:06:11.560
<v Speaker 3>Perfect.

1:06:11.680 --> 1:06:17.080
<v Speaker 5>It's like the world's biggest memes against oh my, that

1:06:17.160 --> 1:06:18.160
<v Speaker 5>would be personally.

1:06:18.200 --> 1:06:18.680
<v Speaker 15>I like her.

1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:20.160
<v Speaker 5>I don't think I could. I feel like I have

1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:20.840
<v Speaker 5>to have somebody.

1:06:20.920 --> 1:06:25.760
<v Speaker 2>I just I just despise a yes, the next attempt

1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:29.440
<v Speaker 2>to keep her fingernails wrapped around the right wing grifting

1:06:29.560 --> 1:06:35.720
<v Speaker 2>machine sports betting via celebrity boxing. This interaction bummed me

1:06:35.760 --> 1:06:39.320
<v Speaker 2>out for a number of reasons, the first being that

1:06:39.480 --> 1:06:44.800
<v Speaker 2>this cheeky question from Haley almost exactly mirrors how she

1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:48.280
<v Speaker 2>foreshadowed that her team was about to pull a massive

1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:51.880
<v Speaker 2>crypto scam a few months ago. This is from the

1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:55.600
<v Speaker 2>episode of Talk to U with Mark Cuban from back

1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:56.280
<v Speaker 2>in November.

1:06:56.640 --> 1:06:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I give you some token?

1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:01.560
<v Speaker 7>How do you okay?

1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:03.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure you're gonna watch. I don't know. I'm not

1:07:04.080 --> 1:07:06.480
<v Speaker 3>a big a fan about me coins. I love crypto,

1:07:06.600 --> 1:07:08.080
<v Speaker 3>but but you can make some money from it.

1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:09.880
<v Speaker 11>There's no doubt, no doubt, Abo.

1:07:10.240 --> 1:07:14.600
<v Speaker 2>It's exactly the same. And while the cryptosports betting industry

1:07:15.200 --> 1:07:19.040
<v Speaker 2>her former employer better being a pretty solid example of it,

1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:23.800
<v Speaker 2>is a firmly modern act of desperation. For a person

1:07:23.840 --> 1:07:27.360
<v Speaker 2>who's been professionally disgraced or, as in the case of

1:07:27.440 --> 1:07:32.200
<v Speaker 2>many women, professionally disgraced and then humiliated in a very

1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:36.000
<v Speaker 2>gendered way. Even though that is all true here, celebrity

1:07:36.040 --> 1:07:40.000
<v Speaker 2>boxing as a means to hang on to relevance predates

1:07:40.200 --> 1:07:44.640
<v Speaker 2>internet culture. And maybe I'm saying this just because I

1:07:44.720 --> 1:07:48.240
<v Speaker 2>saw it Tanya in theaters fourteen times, but I really

1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:49.040
<v Speaker 2>do believe this.

1:07:50.000 --> 1:07:52.520
<v Speaker 15>And her opponent across the ring whiting out of the

1:07:52.600 --> 1:07:56.479
<v Speaker 15>blue corner, wearing the stars and the bars, and also

1:07:56.600 --> 1:08:00.560
<v Speaker 15>choosing not to disclose her weight to the world class skater,

1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:04.480
<v Speaker 15>a two time Olympian, a World bronze medalist, and the

1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:11.720
<v Speaker 15>United States trapion, the progismatic and unpredictable Tanya tnt.

1:08:13.000 --> 1:08:13.400
<v Speaker 11>Hiding.

1:08:15.840 --> 1:08:19.920
<v Speaker 2>This is Tanya Harding, a one time American Olympic figure

1:08:20.000 --> 1:08:26.240
<v Speaker 2>skating forerunner who was extremely unbelievably talented, but was thought

1:08:26.280 --> 1:08:30.920
<v Speaker 2>to lack the precise femininity associated with figure skating. She

1:08:31.080 --> 1:08:33.360
<v Speaker 2>was a little bit rough around the edges and lacked

1:08:33.439 --> 1:08:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the money to get the quote unquote right outfits and

1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:42.479
<v Speaker 2>social graces. She had a difficult life. She was raised

1:08:42.479 --> 1:08:45.280
<v Speaker 2>by a single mom and was in an abusive marriage,

1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:49.839
<v Speaker 2>one that culminated in her then husband, Jeff Galuley, hiring

1:08:50.240 --> 1:08:53.559
<v Speaker 2>the worst hitman of all time to take a crowbar

1:08:53.720 --> 1:08:57.640
<v Speaker 2>to who was painted in the media as Tanya's primary

1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:03.000
<v Speaker 2>figure skating rival at the time, a woman named Nancy Kerrigan,

1:09:03.800 --> 1:09:07.000
<v Speaker 2>who by the way, was in the same tax bracket

1:09:07.040 --> 1:09:10.240
<v Speaker 2>as Tanya, but was just thought to be better at

1:09:10.320 --> 1:09:14.720
<v Speaker 2>being feminine the world as hell. Tanya's involvement in the

1:09:14.840 --> 1:09:19.320
<v Speaker 2>planning of this attack was and I don't know, minimal,

1:09:19.680 --> 1:09:24.840
<v Speaker 2>if anything, but it didn't stop this from ruining her career.

1:09:25.840 --> 1:09:29.720
<v Speaker 2>She was banned from competing professionally in figure skating for

1:09:29.840 --> 1:09:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the rest of her life, and this affected her ability

1:09:34.760 --> 1:09:37.600
<v Speaker 2>to not just live with dignity, but to make a

1:09:37.720 --> 1:09:41.400
<v Speaker 2>living at all. To quote my favorite movie I Tanya

1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:42.639
<v Speaker 2>starring Margot Robbie.

1:09:43.760 --> 1:09:48.080
<v Speaker 13>Once I was banned from figure skating for life, I

1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:50.360
<v Speaker 13>didn't have a lot of options.

1:09:51.960 --> 1:09:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Did what I had to do to just stay in

1:09:53.840 --> 1:09:56.960
<v Speaker 2>the public eye. And hey, the bills breeze.

1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:02.720
<v Speaker 13>I was the second most person behind Bill Clinton in

1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:10.320
<v Speaker 13>the world. That meant something. People still wanted to see me.

1:10:13.120 --> 1:10:15.879
<v Speaker 13>So I became the lady boxer.

1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:19.719
<v Speaker 2>And so Tanya turned to one of the only ways

1:10:19.800 --> 1:10:22.960
<v Speaker 2>that she could make money on that name, because she

1:10:23.080 --> 1:10:26.000
<v Speaker 2>was no longer a name that could sell products like

1:10:26.200 --> 1:10:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Nancy Kerrigan could, and she wasn't allowed to participate in

1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:34.000
<v Speaker 2>figure skating professionally at all, and so she had to

1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:38.759
<v Speaker 2>get creative. And there was this show called Celebrity Boxing

1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:41.160
<v Speaker 2>that started in two thousand and two.

1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:44.240
<v Speaker 3>Let's Get Ride.

1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:52.880
<v Speaker 2>This was a franchise version of something that had proven

1:10:53.000 --> 1:10:55.920
<v Speaker 2>to make for a pretty successful pay per view event

1:10:56.240 --> 1:10:58.880
<v Speaker 2>all the way back in the nineties, and would usually

1:10:59.120 --> 1:11:03.559
<v Speaker 2>pair up two people who were once very culturally relevant

1:11:03.640 --> 1:11:07.680
<v Speaker 2>for some reason, but now were slightly less so a

1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:12.439
<v Speaker 2>great example is about between former seventies teen idols Danny

1:11:12.520 --> 1:11:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Bonaducci and Donnie Osmond. Celebrity Boxing, Not for Nothing, is

1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:21.960
<v Speaker 2>a show that started airing on Fox around the same

1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:25.599
<v Speaker 2>time that Girls Gone Wild, The show that would provide

1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:29.080
<v Speaker 2>a template of humiliating drunk women that would lead to

1:11:29.160 --> 1:11:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the Tim and D YouTube channel that Haley Welsh popped

1:11:31.920 --> 1:11:36.120
<v Speaker 2>off on, was at its peak of popularity. But celebrity

1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Boxing was a place where, as Tanya's character describes, notorious

1:11:40.720 --> 1:11:44.360
<v Speaker 2>figures could take a last pass at monetizing their name

1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:49.639
<v Speaker 2>by facing off against either another celebrity or a known boxer,

1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:54.640
<v Speaker 2>and more often than not have their ass kicked. And

1:11:54.720 --> 1:11:58.440
<v Speaker 2>because most of these figures had been somehow publicly disgriced

1:11:58.520 --> 1:12:03.360
<v Speaker 2>already does or not, because plenty of these are deserved.

1:12:04.360 --> 1:12:07.160
<v Speaker 16>Tonight you will witness an extraordinary boxing match between two

1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:10.120
<v Speaker 16>celebrities who, until six weeks ago would never set foot

1:12:10.160 --> 1:12:13.160
<v Speaker 16>in a boxing ring. Let me introduce you to our

1:12:13.200 --> 1:12:17.720
<v Speaker 16>first fighter tonight in the Red Corner, comedian and star

1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:21.439
<v Speaker 16>of the hit BBC two series The Office, mister Ricky Gervais.

1:12:22.080 --> 1:12:25.400
<v Speaker 2>This is where Tanya Harding ends up in two thousand

1:12:25.400 --> 1:12:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and two, and in a twist that made me so

1:12:29.840 --> 1:12:33.439
<v Speaker 2>mad and sad, Tanya is matched up against a woman

1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>named Paula Jones, who was also dragged through the mud

1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:42.799
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen nineties tabloid culture because Paula Jones credibly accused

1:12:42.880 --> 1:12:48.879
<v Speaker 2>Bill Clinton of sexual harassment May ninety one. Bill Clinton

1:12:49.320 --> 1:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>harassed me on the job and then basically told me,

1:12:54.280 --> 1:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>let's keep this between ourselves.

1:12:56.280 --> 1:12:57.840
<v Speaker 11>I just pretended that it didn't happen.

1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:02.200
<v Speaker 2>And what's worse, La Jones stepping into the ring was

1:13:02.240 --> 1:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>said to be because Amy Fisher aka yet another nineteen

1:13:07.400 --> 1:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>nineties woman who was publicly disgraced in spite of being

1:13:10.960 --> 1:13:15.000
<v Speaker 2>a victim of sexual abuse, called the Long Island Lolita,

1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>was not able to attend the.

1:13:18.080 --> 1:13:25.240
<v Speaker 15>Winner by technical knockout Kanya Tea and ten. Are you

1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:29.200
<v Speaker 15>surprised that Paula, who's never completed at any.

1:13:29.120 --> 1:13:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Level like this and has never trained for sports at your.

1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:33.719
<v Speaker 15>Level, was able to go into the third drone?

1:13:34.040 --> 1:13:35.120
<v Speaker 7>Oh, she did really well.

1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I knew that both of us would.

1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:38.880
<v Speaker 7>Come in and get to know each other a little bit,

1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:40.719
<v Speaker 7>and you know, it wasn't a catfite.

1:13:40.720 --> 1:13:42.479
<v Speaker 1>It was that it was more like a boxing match,

1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:45.280
<v Speaker 1>but have fun all at the same time. And you

1:13:45.320 --> 1:13:46.599
<v Speaker 1>know I knocked her down a few times.

1:13:46.640 --> 1:13:47.320
<v Speaker 5>That's all I'm happening.

1:13:47.640 --> 1:13:50.080
<v Speaker 2>This is a clear pattern. When you look at the

1:13:50.240 --> 1:13:53.840
<v Speaker 2>history of celebrity boxing, you're hard pressed to find a

1:13:54.040 --> 1:13:58.400
<v Speaker 2>man competing who isn't either trying to recapture relevance, has

1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:01.280
<v Speaker 2>been credibly accused or convey did of a sex crime

1:14:01.840 --> 1:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>or both. And with women, you're more likely to find

1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:09.960
<v Speaker 2>someone who has just been publicly shamed in an extreme way,

1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>whether you think they deserved it or not. Men are

1:14:13.840 --> 1:14:17.800
<v Speaker 2>trying to bounce back from something that they did, and

1:14:18.200 --> 1:14:21.559
<v Speaker 2>most women are people that others will pay to see

1:14:21.640 --> 1:14:25.040
<v Speaker 2>punched in the face. What's clear is that this is

1:14:25.160 --> 1:14:28.200
<v Speaker 2>not what Tanya Harding wanted for her life. It was

1:14:28.280 --> 1:14:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a choice that she made out of a need to survive.

1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:35.800
<v Speaker 2>She wanted to not be publicly humiliated in the first place,

1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:39.840
<v Speaker 2>just like Paula Jones or Amy Fisher didn't want And

1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>like Hailey Welch, Tanya was from a working class family

1:14:43.240 --> 1:14:48.000
<v Speaker 2>and didn't have anyone looking out for her financially or emotionally.

1:14:48.720 --> 1:14:52.559
<v Speaker 2>And like Hailey Welch, Tanya Harding did fuck up at

1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:56.799
<v Speaker 2>different times, unlike Hailey Welch, who was a generational athlete.

1:14:56.920 --> 1:14:58.720
<v Speaker 2>But you can talk to me about that, Ata Bar

1:14:59.040 --> 1:15:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I love talking about on your herding. And while there

1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:05.880
<v Speaker 2>are new venues for celebrity boxing today, I will remind

1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:10.040
<v Speaker 2>you how successful the Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson Netflix

1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:14.160
<v Speaker 2>match was last year. The gender dynamics kind of remain

1:15:14.280 --> 1:15:18.439
<v Speaker 2>the same. The men are credibly accused of sex crimes

1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and washed up. The women have been publicly humiliated, and

1:15:23.720 --> 1:15:28.519
<v Speaker 2>their faults are generally connected to survival. But all of

1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:33.560
<v Speaker 2>it is out of some desperation. It sucks it is

1:15:33.920 --> 1:15:38.280
<v Speaker 2>very American. Hailey is willing to sign up for this

1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:42.120
<v Speaker 2>not because she is secretly wanted to box for her

1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:44.920
<v Speaker 2>whole life, but because it is a way for her

1:15:45.080 --> 1:15:48.200
<v Speaker 2>to make money and keep her name out there, and

1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:52.760
<v Speaker 2>regardless of whether it works, whether it's humiliating, or whether

1:15:52.840 --> 1:15:55.760
<v Speaker 2>it matches up with how she wants her life to go.

1:15:56.960 --> 1:15:59.400
<v Speaker 2>And maybe it'll be fun. I hope it is. But

1:15:59.560 --> 1:16:02.880
<v Speaker 2>from where where I'm sitting, it's just the next grift.

1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:07.000
<v Speaker 2>So Haley, welch, I'm gonna take a shot in the

1:16:07.080 --> 1:16:14.880
<v Speaker 2>dark here. Your sixteenth minute ends now, and for your

1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:19.679
<v Speaker 2>moment of fun. Here is KSI describing Los Angeles as

1:16:19.720 --> 1:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>a state, not a city, And there are at least

1:16:22.960 --> 1:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>five people in the room and no one pushes back goodbye.

1:16:28.040 --> 1:16:28.519
<v Speaker 2>You've been to the.

1:16:28.560 --> 1:16:31.280
<v Speaker 3>US a few times, right, way too many times?

1:16:31.800 --> 1:16:33.040
<v Speaker 5>You have a favorite state or anything?

1:16:33.200 --> 1:16:37.040
<v Speaker 11>Favorite state? Definitely not La? Definitely I can agree with

1:16:37.160 --> 1:16:37.479
<v Speaker 11>you on that.

1:16:37.640 --> 1:16:37.960
<v Speaker 5>Agree.

1:16:38.040 --> 1:16:40.760
<v Speaker 11>I feel like LA's just gone downhill over the years.

1:16:40.840 --> 1:16:47.840
<v Speaker 14>Man sixteenth Minute is a production of fol Zone Media

1:16:47.960 --> 1:16:51.599
<v Speaker 14>and iheartwoy Depp. It is written, hosted, and produced by

1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:52.799
<v Speaker 14>me Jamie Loftus.

1:16:53.000 --> 1:16:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Our executive producers are Sophie Lichtman and Robert Evans. The

1:16:56.400 --> 1:17:00.360
<v Speaker 2>amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor.

1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by Sad thirteen. Voice acting is

1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:07.800
<v Speaker 2>from Grant Crater and pet Shout outs to our dog

1:17:07.880 --> 1:17:11.400
<v Speaker 2>producer Anderson, my cats fleeing Casper, and my pet rock Bird,

1:17:11.560 --> 1:17:13.400
<v Speaker 2>who will outlive us all. Bye.