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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: All right, Good morning, Welcome to Breaking Points staggers out today.

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Speaker 3: I'm here, Krystal.

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Speaker 5: How you doing doing well so far? How about you, Emily?

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Speaker 5: I'm great to have you here.

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Speaker 4: Doing just about as well as John Bolton un CNN

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Speaker 4: last night, who was proudly announcing that he is going

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Speaker 4: to vote for Dick Cheney in twenty twenty four. He

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Speaker 4: did it in twenty twenty. That's made with principles.

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Speaker 1: A little too on the nose. Honestly, to be voting

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Speaker 1: for Dick Cheney in twenty twenty four is really wild.

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Speaker 3: At least vote for Liz Cheney if you're going to

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Speaker 3: do it. Yeah, maybe even.

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Speaker 1: Work upgraded figure resistance model of warmongering. Yes, yes, yes, anyway,

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Speaker 1: important things to get to. In addition to John Bolton's

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Speaker 1: voting preferences, we have some inflation numbers that just came

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Speaker 1: in yesterday.

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Speaker 5: Hotter than expected.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about what that means for you, and obviously

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Speaker 1: what it may mean for the political landscape as well.

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Speaker 1: There's also another really fascinating story with regard to inflation data.

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Speaker 1: A government agency was caught feeding secret inflation information to

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Speaker 1: you guessed it, Wall Street, who can benefit to the

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Speaker 1: tunes of hundreds of millions of dollars from such inside information.

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Speaker 1: Break that down for you as well. We've got some

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Speaker 1: new abortion comments from Trump trying to contain the fallout

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Speaker 1: over that new Arizona decision, and we also have some

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Speaker 1: question marks about what exactly is going on.

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Speaker 5: In his campaign.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there's a sort of tale of two campaigns going

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Speaker 1: on here, so we'll break that down for you. Also,

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Speaker 1: turns out lunchables are even worse for your kids than

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Speaker 1: you may have imagined, which is the problem for me personally,

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Speaker 1: because yes, I do feed my kids lunchable, though probably

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Speaker 1: not anymore.

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Speaker 5: So we'll break that down for you.

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Speaker 1: Very excited to be joined, honestly honored to be joined

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Speaker 1: by ISRAELIJOURNALI is Gideon Levy today with Haretz. He's going

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Speaker 1: to break down the very latest that is going on

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Speaker 1: in Gaza, including an Israeli airstrike that killed the sons

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Speaker 1: and grandchildren of a Hamas's political leader. Tucker kicked a

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Speaker 1: hornet's nest over Palestinian Christians. Will bring you those comments

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Speaker 1: and the fallout.

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Speaker 5: Emily and I, of course will react.

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Speaker 1: John Stewart with a great monologue calling out Biden's hypocrisy

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Speaker 1: on Israel versus Russia and human rights. And I'm taking

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Speaker 1: a look at Jonathan Chate's latest piece, which may be

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Speaker 1: his worst yet, which is really saying something. So breaking

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Speaker 1: down this piece where he's you know, he's going after protesters,

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Speaker 1: saying that they're illiberal and authoritarian. There's a lot to

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Speaker 1: say about that one. So let's to get to this morning.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, absolutely, yes, all.

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Speaker 5: Right, So let's start with that inflation data.

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Speaker 1: Let's put the numbers up on the screen so you

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Speaker 1: guys can see coming in higher than expected. This is

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Speaker 1: per Heather Long from the Washington Post. She's got some

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Speaker 1: charts there on the screen you can see as well.

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Speaker 1: So she says inflation in March came in at zero

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Speaker 1: point four percent for the month. That is an annual

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Speaker 1: rate of three point five percent.

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Speaker 5: In the past year.

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Speaker 1: The forecast was four point three percent and three point

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Speaker 1: four percent, respectively, so you can see higher on both

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Speaker 1: of those metrics. She goes on to say that gas

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Speaker 1: and rent accounted for over half of the March increase.

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Speaker 1: Higher gas price and high rent are keeping inflation above

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Speaker 1: three percent. She had another tweet where she broke down

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Speaker 1: the specific increases in a variety of categories that were

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Speaker 1: really noteworthy, and some of these are just extraordinary. So

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Speaker 1: car insurance up twenty two percent in the past year.

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Speaker 1: I really have no idea what the hell is going

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Speaker 1: on there, Car repair up twelve percent, baby formula up

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Speaker 1: ten percent, veterinarian bills up ten percent, Rent up five

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Speaker 1: point nine percent.

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Speaker 5: Obviously that really hurts.

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Speaker 1: Electricity up five percent, restaurants up four point two percent,

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Speaker 1: gas up one point three percent, and home health care

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Speaker 1: for the elderly stored fourteen point two percent in the

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Speaker 1: past year, the largest increase that we have ever seen

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Speaker 1: in that category. So you clearly have a number of areas,

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Speaker 1: in particular, some that are most near and dear to

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Speaker 1: Americans in terms of their pocketbooks that continue to spike emily.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, a lot of fallout from this, obviously

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Speaker 1: the political fallout, we'll get to that in a minute,

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Speaker 1: but it also raises a lot of questions about what

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Speaker 1: the Fed is going to do next. There was, you know,

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Speaker 1: the feed is stopped increasing interest rates. There was a thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe next time they meet they may actually cut interest rates.

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Speaker 1: That's something that people who especially are looking to buy

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Speaker 1: homes are really hoping for because the mortgage interest rates

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Speaker 1: make home buying even more unaffordable than it would otherwise be.

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Speaker 1: But that is effectively off the table now with this

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Speaker 1: hotter than expected inflation report.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a really good, good point. And I

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Speaker 4: think another thing to look at here is that as

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Speaker 4: the Biden administration, I know we're going to get to

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Speaker 4: Biden's comments in just a second, they say inflation is

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Speaker 4: coming down. The juxtaposition of these numbers with that, The

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Speaker 4: important metric to look at is in some of those

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Speaker 4: numbers that Crystal just pointed out, it's not even that

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Speaker 4: the rate of inflation is slowing. And that's what we

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Speaker 4: saw in the top line numbers too, And that's what

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Speaker 4: the Biden administration has pointed to in some respects saying

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Speaker 4: the rate of inflation has slowed year every year, month

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Speaker 4: over month, and that's what's really been able to they've

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Speaker 4: been able to use it as somewhat of a tool.

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Speaker 4: That's not what we're looking at here, and that's basically

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Speaker 4: all they have. Whenever they get a number like that,

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Speaker 4: it's basically all they have. But when you're looking at

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Speaker 4: fourteen percent increases in rent or five point nine percent

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Speaker 4: increases in rent, yeah, I mean that is devastating. It's devastating,

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Speaker 4: and people feel it, and there's no way you can

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Speaker 4: talk around it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we know at this point, you know, at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the inflationary cycle, h the idea that

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Speaker 1: corporate profits and basically profiteering was contributing to this was

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Speaker 1: really dismissed as this fringe idea the further we got along,

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Speaker 1: and that wasn't the only thing that was going on,

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Speaker 1: but that was actually a significant chunk of it was

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Speaker 1: corporation seeing and they would admit this on earnings call, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we can get away with raising our prices. So of

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Speaker 1: course we're going to raise our private prices because we

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Speaker 1: want to hire a profit margin. That trend has continued.

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Speaker 1: There have been increased reports about how that is at

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Speaker 1: this point contributing actually a majority of the inflation across

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Speaker 1: a variety of categories. And we've also covered here specifically

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Speaker 1: with regard to rent, that there is a nationwide epidemic

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Speaker 1: of basically rent collusion, where they're using these algorithmic programs

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Speaker 1: to squeeze every penny that they possibly can out of

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Speaker 1: renters and colluding amongst a lot of large landlords in order.

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Speaker 3: To do so.

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Speaker 1: There's actually legal action being taken against this in both

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Speaker 1: federal and state courts.

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Speaker 5: So you know there are supply chain issues.

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Speaker 1: Each of these categories has their own specific story, but

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Speaker 1: corporate profiteering is a big part of this, which was

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Speaker 1: basically put off the table to talk about for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Joe Biden has started to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the corporate part of this, but has done

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Speaker 1: basically nothing about it. As you mentioned, he was asked

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Speaker 1: yesterday about these inflation numbers.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to his response.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, mister president. Last month, you predicted the Federal

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Speaker 6: Reserve would cut interest rates thanks to falling inflation, but

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Speaker 6: today data showed that inflation rose more than expected. For

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Speaker 6: the third straight month. So how concerned are you about

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Speaker 6: the fight against inflation stalling and do you stand by

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Speaker 6: your prediction for a ray cut.

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Speaker 7: Well, I do stand by my prediction that before the

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Speaker 7: year is out to be a rake cut, there's may

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Speaker 7: delayed a month or so. I'm not sure that we

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Speaker 7: don't know what the Fed is going to do for certain,

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Speaker 7: but look, we have dramatically reduced inflation from nine percent

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Speaker 7: now so close to three percent. We're in a situation

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Speaker 7: where we're better situated than we were when we took office,

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Speaker 7: where we're inflation with skyrocketing and we have a plan.

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Speaker 8: To deal with it.

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Speaker 7: Whereas the opposition, my opposition talks about two things. They

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Speaker 7: just want to cut taxes for the wealthy and raise

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Speaker 7: taxes on other people. And so I think they're they

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Speaker 7: have no plan. Our plan is one I think is

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Speaker 7: still sustainable.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is obviously one of the biggest political

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Speaker 1: risks for the Biden campaign. He's got a number of

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Speaker 1: political problems ahead of him. Don't get me wrong, his

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Speaker 1: age being one of them, his unconditional support for Israel

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Speaker 1: being another one of them. But consistently voter say the economy,

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Speaker 1: inflation even as consumer sentiment has improved a little bit

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Speaker 1: and people's sense of the economy has improved a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and we did get a really good jobs report last week,

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Speaker 1: and unemployment is low. I mean, there are some things

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Speaker 1: that they can point to, but this is just a

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Speaker 1: major source spot. I saw numbers last week, Emily, the

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Speaker 1: same groceries, for the same basket of groceries this year

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Speaker 1: over last year, you have to spend four hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty five dollars more a month.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's astronomical.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the amount of money that represents for ordinary people

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Speaker 1: is huge.

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Speaker 5: That is huge.

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Speaker 3: It's huge.

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Speaker 4: And I continue to think the strategy of acting as

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Speaker 4: though you know your eyes are lying to your your

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Speaker 4: bank account is lying to I think that is a really,

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Speaker 4: really big error for the Biden campaign. And it doesn't

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Speaker 4: mean that like from a political strategy perspective, where you're

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Speaker 4: spinning and you know you're doing the usual bs. I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying Biden should walk out and take credit for it,

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Speaker 4: though I would give him a lot of the blame,

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Speaker 4: But I'm not saying that's what he has to do.

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Speaker 4: He should, though, empathize with people because people are really

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Speaker 4: hurting and it has happened, It has transpired under his watch.

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Speaker 4: And there's a whole lot more to this than people

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Speaker 4: just not remembering how good they have it under Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: Are not understanding? Yeah, And that continues to be the

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Speaker 4: line from the White House. Why aren't you reading Paul Krugman?

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Speaker 4: Why aren't you accepting what Paul Krugman says about the economy.

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Speaker 4: It's like, actually, why aren't you accepting what's happening to

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Speaker 4: normal people when they go to get their groceries.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: And that was really underscored by a noteworthy moment from

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Speaker 1: a top Biden surrogate, an ally, Jim Clyverd. He was

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Speaker 1: on MSNBC, and his whole argument was very similar to

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. It's like people just don't understand how

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Speaker 1: great things are. And he's going on and on all

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Speaker 1: that we brought inflation down and MSNBC lear has to

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Speaker 1: break into his comments with a CNBC reporter with these

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Speaker 1: numbers on inflation being hotter than expected just coming across

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Speaker 1: at that moment.

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Speaker 5: So let's take a look at that awkward exchange.

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Speaker 8: It's an inflation today, it's about forty percent of what

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Speaker 8: it was when Joe Biden took office, and so the

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Speaker 8: inflation rates are down and people's incomes are up, not

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Speaker 8: what they may here on social media. One of the

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Speaker 8: focused group people talked about social media and the misrepresentation, disinformation.

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Speaker 8: All of those things are out there, and that's the

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Speaker 8: battle that we have to fight, and we've got to

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Speaker 8: do a better job of fighting it more effectively.

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Speaker 3: So I'll validate that.

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Speaker 9: I think the disinformation out there is distorting the entire process.

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Speaker 9: I think social media doesn't help, but there's also a

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Speaker 9: lack of validation that these voters feel. And I'm going

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Speaker 9: to bring in Ander Ross Sorkin right now because we've

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Speaker 9: just got breaking news. The consumer price index increased at

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Speaker 9: a faster than expected pace last month, a signal that

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Speaker 9: inflation remains stubborn ley high.

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Speaker 1: And this has been their line, blaming disinformation for what

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Speaker 1: people are able to experience in their own lives. I mean,

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Speaker 1: four hundred and forty five dollars more per month for

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Speaker 1: your groceries we had. Now we have actually in some

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Speaker 1: instances wages surpassing the inflation rate, but you may have

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Speaker 1: already been behind from previous inflation in the past. That

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Speaker 1: your wages didn't catch up to not to mention, the

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Speaker 1: course of the Biden administration, we've seen the social safety

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Speaker 1: net that was erected during the COVID era, all of

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Speaker 1: that being stripped away, So the previous supports you had,

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Speaker 1: and not only in terms of direct checks, also in

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Speaker 1: terms of child tax credit other programs that's gone. Inflation

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Speaker 1: remains high, and they're blaming disinformation for people not understanding

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Speaker 1: what they're experiencing in their own lives.

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Speaker 3: And this seems to be the strategy that they're sticking with.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we're like a couple of months into the

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Speaker 4: strategy now, and it's I mean you can see it

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Speaker 4: in real time fail for Clyburn on Mourning Joe on

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Speaker 4: Morning Joe of all places, where inflation to them basically

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Speaker 4: means nothing. It means like maybe their intern gets them,

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Speaker 4: you know, a medium coffee instead of a large coffee,

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Speaker 4: but not even that, yeah, you know, when they go

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Speaker 4: run out to get their coffee. So I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: just ridiculous and the problem is going to be Also,

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Speaker 4: they continue to deflect to like different Trump culture wars things.

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Speaker 4: I don't mean culture were in terms of abortion, but

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Speaker 4: like these questions of like Donald Trump is just you

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Speaker 4: guys forget how bad he is, Like the Trump amnesia line.

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Speaker 4: They try to build into this inflation thing. You don't

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Speaker 4: remember how bad the economy was under Donald Trump, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: et cetera, don't remember how bad it was with COVID.

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Speaker 4: The View was talking a couple of weeks ago about

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Speaker 4: how Anna Navarro just she felt like she couldn't even

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Speaker 4: play words with friends. She was constantly so stressed out

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Speaker 4: during the Trump administration. She really sad that she's back

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Speaker 4: to playing words with friends now, so that's good news.

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Speaker 1: But they keep Americans and a Navarro can play for

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Speaker 1: words with friends, but.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's their crutch.

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Speaker 4: It's their crutches, like Donald Trump was horrible, so they

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Speaker 4: don't have to talk in substantive terms about the economy.

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Speaker 4: They don't understand that it's actually probably less risky for

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Speaker 4: them to empathize with people.

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Speaker 3: It's a struggling right now.

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Speaker 5: That's right, And there's a way you could approach this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that Joe Biden is personally capable of this,

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Speaker 1: but there's plenty of evidence out there. Like I said

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Speaker 1: that a significant chunk of this pain and this inflation

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Speaker 1: is directly because of price gouging and corporate profiteering. So

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Speaker 1: when you get a report like this, don't try to

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Speaker 1: dismiss it, don't try to underplay it. Don't try to

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Speaker 1: convince people that their lives are different than their lives

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Speaker 1: actually are. Come out hot with rage at the corporations

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Speaker 1: who are jacking up prices, who are making fat profits

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Speaker 1: of many of these companies making the biggest profit margins

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Speaker 1: they've ever made before. Come out hot and filled with

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Speaker 1: righteous anger at those individuals and at those corporations that

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Speaker 1: are causing pain for American consumers. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: it's not just theater because the reality of it is

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Speaker 1: the presidential bully pulpit does still mean something. When Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden did a little bit of conversation about meat packing

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Speaker 1: plants and the way that they were price gouging, it

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Speaker 1: actually had an impact. You could see the way that

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Speaker 1: they altered their behavior in real time because they felt

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Speaker 1: that scrutiny from a presidential level. And they know, hey,

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Speaker 1: this guy's got a lot of power. He could mess

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Speaker 1: with us here, you know, from an anti trust perspective.

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Speaker 1: In other ways, yeah, and it's bad publicity and so

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Speaker 1: and corporations are very like skittish about that sort of scrutiny,

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Speaker 1: and so they actually improved what they were doing and

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Speaker 1: it had an impact. But instead you see this, you know,

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Speaker 1: instinct constantly to gaslight and insists that the problem is

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Speaker 1: actually just the media is not explaining to you or.

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Speaker 5: Were too dumb to understand, and what the reality of

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Speaker 5: the economy is.

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Speaker 1: No, the economy is, you know, it's complex for some people. Sure,

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Speaker 1: if you're an older person who has a home and

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Speaker 1: a lot of savings, you're probably doing okay, even though

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Speaker 1: you know for you inflation is a problem too. If

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Speaker 1: you're a younger person, you're trying to get a home

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Speaker 1: that is wildly out of reach, You've got student debt

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Speaker 1: hanging over your head. You've got some real problems here.

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Speaker 1: And it's not imaginary, and it's not because you don't

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Speaker 1: understand what's going on. Something Sager and I've been talking

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Speaker 1: about here is there's this curious inversion and at least

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Speaker 1: some of the polling where older Americans who had been

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Speaker 1: more consistently Republican, Joe Biden is actually doing a bit

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Speaker 1: better with them, and younger Americans he's falling off with now.

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Speaker 1: Part of that I think is Israel Gaza, no doubt,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't explain Trump picking up support there. And

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Speaker 1: I do think that the difference in the experience of

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Speaker 1: the economy for the young versus the older generations is

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Speaker 1: a big part of that story of what's going on

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Speaker 1: in some of the polling that's come out.

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Speaker 4: And my best guess as to why he's not addressing

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Speaker 4: the price gouging as much as he could be just

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Speaker 4: from your political standpoint, is that it broaches this issue

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Speaker 4: of the legislation.

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Speaker 3: He's passed the.

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Speaker 4: Super high spending and he can defect. But that's what's interesting,

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Speaker 4: because he did that in big ribbon cutting ceremonies with

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Speaker 4: these bills.

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Speaker 3: He's very proud of these bills.

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Speaker 4: It's like this is what he wants to run on,

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Speaker 4: but he's afraid to talk about them. It's a total

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Speaker 4: catch twenty two and it's an unfortunate situation for him

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Speaker 4: because he's afraid to talk about to validate that inflation

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Speaker 4: is not going down.

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Speaker 3: What did he say, dramatically decreased?

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Speaker 4: He's afraid to talk about that instead of just coming

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Speaker 4: out and saying I passed necessary spending, which I don't

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Speaker 4: agree with but he could certainly agree with that. Say,

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Speaker 4: I passed necessary spending and then corporations jumped on the

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Speaker 4: bandwagon and are trying to take advantage of us trying

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Speaker 4: to repair the country. But they don't even want to

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Speaker 4: talk about that because they don't want to validate that

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Speaker 4: people are really still feeling inflation.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the fact too, that analysis about corporate profiteering

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Speaker 1: came from the left just constant. Like anything that left

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Speaker 1: says or argues, the mainstream of the Democratic Party feels.

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Speaker 5: The need to be against other way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean really, since like the Clinton era, that

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Speaker 1: is their natural instinct. That is certainly Joe Biden's natural instinct.

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Speaker 1: And there's more indications now there's an interview I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you saw this recently with Ron Klain, who

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Speaker 1: is Biden's original chief of staff, when you were getting

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Speaker 1: some more progressive things out of this administration before he left,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things he was saying him is,

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Speaker 1: like Jesus Biden loves talking about these frickin' bridges, But

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Speaker 1: you know what, people aren't like experiencing a bridge at.

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Speaker 3: The grocery store.

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Speaker 1: They are experiencing their grocery prices being higher than they

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Speaker 1: used to be, so we need to focus a bit

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Speaker 1: more on that. And he is absolutely he is absolutely correct,

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Speaker 1: And I don't think it's a mistake that since Klaan left,

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Speaker 1: not that things were perfect when he was there, but

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Speaker 1: there's really no affirmative economic agenda whatsoever. It's more of

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Speaker 1: just like a hope and a prayer that things are

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Speaker 1: getting better and will continue to get better, which you

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Speaker 1: know evidence by this report. Hope is not a strategy.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this next piece up on the screen from

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Speaker 1: Heather Long. I mentioned this before, but I really need

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Speaker 1: to do some more digging or we need to get

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Speaker 1: an expert on to explain to me what is going

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Speaker 1: on here, because this car insurance and car repair spike

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Speaker 1: is really wild. She points out over ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: US households own a car. Vehicle insurance is up twenty

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Speaker 1: two point two percent in the past year. That's the

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Speaker 1: largest jump since nineteen seventy six. Vehicle repair is up eleven.

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Speaker 5: Point six percent.

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Speaker 1: One theory I saw floated Emily, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this is you know, this has backing or not,

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Speaker 1: but it sounds kind of logical.

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Speaker 5: Is during COVID. People were driving a lot less.

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Speaker 1: There was a kind of a bonus on car insurance

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Speaker 1: came down because it was, you know, less risky car

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Speaker 1: insurance ensures. We're having to put out less money because

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Speaker 1: people were just driving less. Presumably there's a similar dynamic

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Speaker 1: going on with repairs. Because people were driving less, there

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Speaker 1: were less auto repairs.

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Speaker 5: So now that you have.

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Speaker 1: A spike in driving, a spike in auto repair, perhaps

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Speaker 1: that's what's driving this huge jump. But that is a

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Speaker 1: massive expense for a lot of American households. Ninety percent

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Speaker 1: of him, as she points out, own a car. So

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Speaker 1: this is really matters.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, ninety percent of American households own a car. But

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Speaker 4: it's always worth remembering actually that journalists are disproportionately clustered

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Speaker 4: in New York City and Washington, d C. And listen,

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Speaker 4: I didn't have a car for a really long time here,

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Speaker 4: so it used public transit. I walked, And that's similar

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Speaker 4: to a lot of journalists. So this is a big

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Speaker 4: blind spot for the media. It always has been gas prices.

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Speaker 4: Some journalists do have cars. Many journalists do have cars,

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Speaker 4: but a lot of them actually just don't. Even these

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Speaker 4: are not things that even register for them because they're

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Speaker 4: taking the subway or they're walking and they're you know,

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Speaker 4: I think I think that's why we're sitting here, Crystal

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Speaker 4: looking at these huge spikes and being like, wait what,

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Speaker 4: Because if there were more media attention paid to this

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Speaker 4: over the course of the last couple of years, I

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Speaker 4: think we would all have a better understanding of what

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Speaker 4: was going on. But it's always been a blind spot

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Speaker 4: for the press.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: And also, you know, many of whom want to help

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration and don't want to talk about this

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Speaker 1: too much and are subject to this same you know,

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Speaker 1: shaming over quote unquote disinformation around the economy. So let's

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Speaker 1: put this last piece up on the screen from the

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Speaker 1: New York Times. Their headline, inflation was hotter than expected

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Speaker 1: in March, unwelcome news for the Fed. They dig into

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Speaker 1: this prospect I mentioned earlier. You know, there was there's

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Speaker 1: all these indicators of like, oh, what does Wall Street

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Speaker 1: think that the Fed is going to do? And Wall

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Speaker 1: Street was saying there was a decent chance you were

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Speaker 1: going to get a rate cut here coming up.

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Speaker 5: That is basically off the table.

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Speaker 1: Now, you know, it is most likely that rates will

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Speaker 1: hold steady. I saw Larry Summers out there for what

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Speaker 1: e's worth saying, you know, we have to now expect

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Speaker 1: that it's possible we could even see go back to

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Speaker 1: rate increases. This has a lot of political implications, although

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Speaker 1: it's kind of you know, it's a dual edged sword.

440
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, when you get rate cuts,

441
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: you get you can have a hotter economy. You also

442
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: have lower mortgage interest rates, which come you know, really

443
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: follow very closely what the Fed is doing. So those

444
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 1: are good things. On the other hand, it can contribute

445
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: to inflation. So that's the argument in favor of the

446
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: continued you know, trajectory or increasing the rates. So you know,

447
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: and if this comes into the fall and the Fed

448
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: is changing rates, that can have also political implication, something

449
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is keenly aware of and it's already

450
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: been discussing. So in any case, the fact that this

451
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: inflation report came in hotter than expected, probably changing the

452
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: Fed's plans and definitely taking a rate cut off the

453
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: table for the for now.

454
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 4: And puncturing the narrative bubble of a lot of experts

455
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 4: over the last several months. Not sure that will come

456
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 4: as a surprise to anybody.

457
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, though there was a lot of like, oh,

458
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 1: we did it soft.

459
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 5: Landing, and you know, no.

460
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 3: Mission that were accomplished.

461
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: There was a lot of mission accomplished going on in

462
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: the mainstream discourse, and I think this is a real

463
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: reality check moment for them. At the same time, there

464
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: is an incredible scandal unfolding at the Bureau of Labor

465
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: and Statistics or here eyes glaze over. It has to

466
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: do with non public secret information being released to a

467
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: group of what they described as super users, who of

468
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: course are all on Wall Street in position to make

469
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: millions of dollars based on this non public information. Let's

470
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: go and put this up on the screen. This is

471
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: for the New York Times. A lot of other outlets

472
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: reporting on this as well. They say new questions on

473
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: how a key agency shared inflation data.

474
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 5: I think that's to put.

475
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: It pretty mildly, a government economists had regular contact with

476
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: quote super users in finance record show at a time

477
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: when such information keenly interests investors, keenly interest them. Let

478
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: me go ahead and read a little bit of this

479
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: report for you. So this all started back in February.

480
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: There was an email that was sent to a group

481
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: of users explaining how a methodological tweet could have contributed

482
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: to an unexpected jump in housing costs in the Consumer

483
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: Price Index, and it was addressed to quote super users

484
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: circulated rapidly around Wall Street. Journalists got their hands on

485
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: this and said, wait a second, what the hell is

486
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: going on here?

487
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 5: Is there some official list of.

488
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: Super users who are being clued in on all of

489
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: this information? And the bls, No, no, no, it's just

490
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: a one off. This is not normal procedure. Don't worry

491
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: about it. Well, now, we had a Freedom of Information

492
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: Act request that showed that the agency, or at least

493
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: that economist who sent the original email, was in regular

494
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: contact with users in the finance industry. And what you

495
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: can see here is one of those exchangers exchanges where

496
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: a super user said, Hey, would it be possible to

497
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: be on the super user email list? The employee replies, yes,

498
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: I can actually do the list. Reporters' efforts to reach

499
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: the employees identified the Bureau confirmed were unsuccessful. They described

500
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: this individual as a relatively low ranking but long time

501
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: official within the Bureau of Labor Statistics Standard statistics.

502
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 5: I'm confusing myself. Statistics dahm, right about that.

503
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: Okay, So anyway, the fact that you have people in

504
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: finance emailing this person.

505
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 5: Like, hey, can I get on that cool list?

506
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: Indicates this was not a one off, and they got

507
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,719
Speaker 1: their hands on additional emails, some of which did, in

508
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: fact contain significant non public information. Now this is like

509
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: some really wonky stuff about oh, we're making this methodological

510
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: change and how we can calculate that housing inflation, et cetera.

511
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 5: But if this is what you do, and.

512
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: You're trading potentially one hundreds of millions of dollars based

513
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: on this information, and what's going to do to the

514
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: markets which you know, by the way, when this inflation

515
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: data came out yesterday, a huge market crash. So if

516
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: you have a heads up that that's the sort of

517
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: thing that's coming, you can imagine the kind of bank

518
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: that you can make off of that. It is an

519
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: extraordinary scandal. And the last thing I'll say here is,

520
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, let me give you a sense of who

521
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: some of the recipients on this were. Apparently the names

522
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: were redacted, but their employers were not, so you're able

523
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: to get a sense of, all, right, well, who are

524
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: these quote unquotes super users. They say that many of

525
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: the recipients appear to have been in house economists at

526
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: large investment banks like Barclay's, Nomora and BNP Paribas. Others

527
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: work for private research firms which sell their analysis to investors.

528
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: Some recipients appear to have been analysts at large hedge

529
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: funds such as Millennium Capital Partners.

530
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 5: Revan Howard, I don't know who these.

531
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: People are in Citadel, which trade directly on their research,

532
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: and at least one case, emails to super users appear

533
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: to shared methodological details that were.

534
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 5: Not yet public. So it's exactly who you expect.

535
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: It's these in house economists, it's people at these firms

536
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: that sell their research so other rich people can benefit

537
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: from this inside information, and it's firms that can directly

538
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: trade on this research as well.

539
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 5: So it's it's.

540
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's pretty extraordinary, and frankly, based on the details

541
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: that came out here, you know, the agency is not

542
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: really commenting at this point, but this supposedly low level

543
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: employee seems to have copied, you know, a large distribution

544
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: list within the BLS. So the suggestion is he certainly

545
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: didn't think he was doing anything wrong. And is very

546
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: likely this was sort of you know, accepted or even

547
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: authorized and directed from higher level officials who you know,

548
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: likely knew what was going on. I seriously, I seriously

549
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: doubt it was just one employee freelancing on this thing.

550
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 10: Yeah.

551
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: No, And a couple of points.

552
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: One The New York Times actually broke a lot of

553
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 4: the story open because of Foya. They filed Foyer requests.

554
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: I got this like vast scope of what had been

555
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 4: going on. And all you need to know basically is

556
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 4: that in the Time story, it says one of the

557
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 4: BLS employees, and this is the Times rights. The BLS

558
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 4: had announced the change in a news release in early January,

559
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 4: but did not publish details about it on its website

560
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 4: until mid February, two weeks after the email from the employee.

561
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 4: One of the BLS employees said quote, it wasn't appropriate

562
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 4: to be sharing information that.

563
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: Wasn't public and hadn't been fully vetted.

564
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 4: So if the BLS is saying that it wasn't and

565
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: was not appropriate to be sharing that information, just internalize

566
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 4: that for a moment, because that tells you what you

567
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 4: need to know. The BLS says this is not appropriate.

568
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: There you go right, it's a high stakes not I

569
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: shouldn't say error because it doesn't sound like it was

570
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 4: an error. It sounds like it was systematic, so not

571
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,719
Speaker 4: appropriate and on that scale. And those are the two

572
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 4: big takeaways I think from the story that I would

573
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 4: hope continues to reverberate, because there's a lot more to

574
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 4: know about exactly who was benefiting.

575
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm surprised this isn't a bigger story, to be honest

576
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: with you, because it also raises a lot of questions

577
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: about like, Okay, well, if this was just what they

578
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: were doing at BLAT, what other kind of non public

579
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: information is Wall Street and their wealthy clients?

580
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 5: What are they benefiting from?

581
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: You know, it contributes obviously to not only the sense

582
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: but the reality that there's one game being played among

583
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: the wealthy and another one being played among everyone else.

584
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of the tone of

585
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: these emails, that one that I mentioned and that you

586
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: know definitely contain non public information, they say. On January

587
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: thirty one, this employee send an email to his super

588
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: users describing coming changes to the way the agency calculates

589
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: use car prices. At the time, a crucial issue for

590
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: inflation watchers The email included a three page document providing

591
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: detailed answers to questions about the change and a spreadsheet

592
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: showing how they would affect calculations. Quote, thank you all

593
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: for your very difficult, challenging, and thoughtful questions, the email said,

594
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: it is your questions that help us flesh out all

595
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 1: the potential problems. So do you really think this employee

596
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: was just on his own or her own freelancing? And

597
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: compiling this three page document with the you know frequently

598
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: asked questions and a spreadsheet showing how they affect calculations

599
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: and telling these super users, Hey, thank you. We're taking

600
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: in your input. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate it.

601
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: You really think this person was just freelancing? It's going

602
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: to be interesting to see how this agency handles this situation.

603
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: If they just escape this scapegoat this one employees, Ah,

604
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: he was just he or she was just freelancing, We

605
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Or if there are

606
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: larger recriminations and we really come to understand how widespread

607
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: this communication was and whether this was the only instance,

608
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, this particular list of super users in this

609
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: type of information, or if there's way more sharing of

610
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: inside information than we have an understanding of at this point.

611
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 11: Yeah.

612
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: No, absolutely.

613
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 4: And the other thing at the end of the story

614
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 4: that is noted is they say, you know, the after

615
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 4: years of remaining loan stable, inflation started to take off

616
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty one and it has remained a major

617
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 4: newstry ever since because it influences federal reserve policy. Is

618
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: a major driver of market training. Well, yeah, no kidding.

619
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: And on top of that, I think you put it

620
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: really well in the beginning of this segment, Crystal, where

621
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: you talked about the potential scale of this. It's not

622
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 4: just one person talking to you know, ten different people

623
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: sharing a document with ten different people. It is then

624
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: the decision that those ten different people make at all

625
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: of their places, and it just can have a ripple

626
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 4: effect throughout literally the entire economy. As that paragraph highlights,

627
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 4: it is a major driver of market trading. So you

628
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 4: have this employee engaging in long back and forth one

629
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 4: on one. He says, I can't share some of this data.

630
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: But that's not a benefit that everyone gets obviously, So

631
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: it's a I agree with you, this should be a

632
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 4: much bigger story.

633
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: So the economy a big problem for Joe Biden. But

634
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has some problems of his own.

635
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: Emily, Donald Trump, you will be shocked to learn, has

636
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: some problems of his own. Now, Donald Trump was in

637
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 4: Atlanta yesterday. He bought some thirty milk chicks for people

638
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 4: at a Chick fil A?

639
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: Did you see that?

640
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 5: I did see that. Do we know flavors? Do we

641
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 5: have any any intel there?

642
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 4: Not that I'm aware of, but will certainly update everyone.

643
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: The obvious choice, go to choice at Chick fil A.

644
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: The frosted lemonade Chick fil A is incredible.

645
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: Die I'm a fan of the diet frosted lemonade.

646
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes it is.

647
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 5: Do you people still get canceled on the left for

648
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 5: going to Chick fil A?

649
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: By the way, I was gonna sy I think you might.

650
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 5: Die. Frost the lemonade is amazing.

651
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: There you go, cancel Crystal hashtay. Let's get it trending.

652
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: But dontap was in Atlanta yesterday and he was doing

653
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 4: some back and forth with reporters actually after he had

654
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 4: touched down in Atlanta, And so let's actually just roll

655
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: this clip of Donald Trump talking about the Arizona Supreme

656
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 4: Court abortion ruling that thrust their abortion law basically an

657
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 4: entire state of Arizona back to eighteen sixty four.

658
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: And I covered this yesterday, but you didn't mishear me.

659
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 4: Eighteen sixty four is where the Arizona Supreme Court said

660
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: the law now stands with the abortion basically the abortion

661
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: policy that when Arizona was a territory passed in eighteen

662
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 4: sixty four. Everyone's pretty familiar with the story by now.

663
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: But likely that'll be overturned in November. Not overturned, I

664
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 4: shouldn't say that sounds like a legal term, but the

665
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: people of Arizona will likely overturn that November. There's a

666
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 4: bale initiative underway right now to enshrine abortion rights into

667
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 4: the constitution. So Trump was asked about it. Here's what

668
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: he had to say.

669
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 6: Arizona go too hard.

670
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 10: And Arizona go too more.

671
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, they did, and that'll be straightened out.

672
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 10: And as you know, it's all about the states rights.

673
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 10: I'll be straightened out.

674
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: And I'm sure that the governor and everybody else are

675
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: going to bring it back into.

676
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 11: Reason and that'll be taking care of I think very quickly.

677
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 10: What do you think about Florida? Fort Hard is probably

678
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 10: maybe going to change. Also, see it's all of what

679
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 10: it's the will of the people. This is what I've

680
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 10: been saying. It's a perfect system.

681
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 4: So for fifty two years people have wanted to end

682
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 4: road me a way to get it back to the states.

683
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 10: We did that.

684
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: It was an incredible thing, an incredible achievement.

685
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 4: We did that, and now the states have it, and

686
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: the states are putting out what they want.

687
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 10: It's the will of the people.

688
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 12: So Florida is probably going to change, Arizona's going to

689
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 12: definitely change.

690
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 10: Everybody wants that to happen.

691
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: And you're getting the will.

692
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 13: Of the people.

693
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 10: It's been pretty amazing.

694
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: It's pretty amazing, he said, it's pretty amazing.

695
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 4: He said it's the perfect system, which I think some

696
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 4: people in California would disagree with because they're basically ruled

697
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: by referendum. If the people has some interesting effects in California.

698
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 4: But that's his line and he's sticking with it. It's

699
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 4: actually funny because he said on Monday, you put out

700
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 4: a big statement that had a huge ripple effect throughout

701
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: the conservative movement into abortion movement, saying this all needs

702
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 4: to be left to the states. Essentially after the fall

703
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: of Row, you know, Trump basically is like, I gave

704
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 4: you guys the end of row, so we're just going

705
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 4: to kick it back to the states now. And so

706
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: he actually this Arizona ruling gave him an opportunity to

707
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: try out that campaign strategy, that messaging strategy, and he's

708
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 4: sticking with it.

709
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 3: Crystal.

710
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean this was very inconvenient for him

711
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: and for all Republicans, frankly, but especially for him because,

712
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: like you said, he just did this whole thing of like,

713
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: all is this beautiful democracy, will the people's states rights?

714
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: And then Arizona's like, how about in our state we

715
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: ban it completely in a way that would be acceptable

716
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: to about five percent of the population who hold this position.

717
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 5: So his whole leave it up.

718
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: To the states thing kind of immediately undermined by the

719
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: reality of this decision in Arizona. You know, I also

720
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: think listen, he's he realizes abortion is a big problem. Yes,

721
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: very clearly. Absolutely. I don't think there's really anything he

722
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: can do about it, though, no matter where he tries

723
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: to message himself, for what words he put, whatever he does,

724
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: because the bottom line is he's responsible for Roe versus

725
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: Wad being overturned. That's the bottom line, he's celebrated. Even

726
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: in those comments, he was celebrating that, so you know

727
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: his latest effort here can put this up on the screen.

728
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: From CNN, he was asked, I think in that shame exchange,

729
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: would he sign a federal abortion ban?

730
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 5: He said, no, we don't have any more details about.

731
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: Okay, well, what if it was fifteen weeks, whatever, it

732
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: was six weeks or is it just if it's.

733
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 5: A blanket abortion ban, would he not sign it?

734
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: There's also other questions, Emily, as you know, probably better

735
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: than I do, some of the people who would potentially

736
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: be involved in this administration, they're looking at the Compstack

737
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: Act and enforcing that, which would be a de facto

738
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: abortion ban without actually having anything having to be signed

739
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: or passed through Congress.

740
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 5: So what about that? So it doesn't really answer.

741
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: A lot of questions about the sort of these sort

742
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: of like nuanced in details, but it does show you

743
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: politically he's trying to run as far away from this

744
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: as he possibly can. But again, I mean, the Biden

745
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: administration has already the Biden campaign has already put out

746
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: a very powerful and emotional ad that Zager and I

747
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: played on Tuesday on this issue. Trump has continued to

748
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, celebrate the fact that he was the guy

749
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: that got Roe versus Wade overturned and frankly, you know,

750
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: his whole leave it up to the states thing. It

751
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: really smacks of political opportunism and pandering because it's not

752
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: a moral position. Like if you actually are pro life,

753
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: and you you genuinely are, and you think abortion is murder,

754
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to be like, oh, but it's cool

755
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: if it happens in California.

756
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: Like Californians decide, right, Yeah, No, it doesn't make a

757
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 4: lot of sense. Although so I heard Nancy Mace I

758
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: talked about this yesterday on NPR kind of going with

759
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 4: the strategy in these conversations with MPR and talking about

760
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 4: how most Americans find themselves at this point of agreement

761
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 4: in the second trimester.

762
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 3: So most Americans are.

763
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 4: Not on board with the full Democratic policy prescription, which

764
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 4: is basically like row allowed for states to make their

765
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 4: own decisions about what happened in the third trimester. And

766
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 4: Nancy Mace and a lot of Republicans have said the

767
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 4: best way for the GOPED a message the abortion issue

768
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 4: is to talk about that and then talk about you know,

769
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 4: sort of kicking it to the states after we find

770
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 4: that point of consensus. People have tried the fifteen week

771
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: strategy that was Lindsay Graham's big idea. People have tried

772
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 4: all of these different ways of talking about it since Roe,

773
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: and nothing is working.

774
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 3: Nothing is working.

775
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: So that's where Trump came out and tried to going

776
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 4: into the summer, neutralize the question of abortion by saying,

777
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 4: this is my position, it's now up to the people.

778
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: Interestingly enough, the Arizona Supreme Court had a similar point.

779
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 4: They said this should be decided not by the court,

780
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 4: but by the legislature and the people of Arizona, which

781
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 4: is why they allowed the eighteen sixty fourth thing to

782
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: go into effect. And the people of Arizona are going

783
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 4: to make a decision. And it's not necessarily ironic, but

784
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 4: that being on the ballot in November. Good luck to

785
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 4: carry Lake and Donald Trump in November.

786
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: If that's on the.

787
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: Ballot in Arizona, it could be on the ballot in

788
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: a lot of other states too, and some of which

789
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 4: are swing states.

790
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 5: It's all about in Florida as well.

791
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder what you make of that, because listen,

792
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: on the one handed, Florida's trend to the right seems

793
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: pretty clear.

794
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 5: How much does Santus want to buy, like sixteen points

795
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 5: or something.

796
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: I think Trump wanted by four if memory serves thereabouts,

797
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: which is not like a crazy margin. It's not a

798
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: massive mart And especially if you believe the polling, which

799
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I do or not, but if

800
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: you believe the polling that shows Joe Biden actually doing

801
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: pretty well among older residents. Florida famously in Arizona two

802
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: has a lot of older residents. It's I'm not saying

803
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: Florida will be in play, but it's.

804
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 5: Not crazy to me at this point.

805
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: Since you have the abortion ballat initiative, you have a

806
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: weed ballad initiative, you have you know, this older population

807
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: which seems to be more friendly to Joe Biden than

808
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: any other, you know, age demographic group that Florida could

809
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: possibly be put back in play really kind of solely.

810
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 5: Based on this one issue. It's also wild.

811
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: I know you and Ryan did a great job covering

812
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: this yesterday, but watching Republicans like Kerry Lake, who previously

813
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: all is a great, great law that's on the books.

814
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: We already got a great law in the books talking

815
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: about this eighteen sixty four thing. And then when the

816
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: court actually rules the way she claimed she wanted them

817
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: to rule, she's running away as far and as fast

818
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: as she possibly can. And you know, it was one

819
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: thing when this was all hypothetical, Yeah, exactly. It was

820
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: one thing when you could talk about fetal personhood and

821
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: heartbeat bills and whatever, when you weren't having court saying okay, well,

822
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: if that's the law, then there's no IVF anymore. It

823
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: was one thing when it was theoretical. Now that it's

824
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: very real, and public opinion has really shifted. And we

825
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: covered this together that since Roe versus Weight was overturned,

826
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't like there was one shift and that was it.

827
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: People have continued to move to the pro choice position,

828
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: breaking what has been a multi decades long fifty to fifty.

829
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 5: Split on the issue.

830
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: And I just don't think that there is really any

831
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: messaging fixed for this because there's a big.

832
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 5: Reality problem right now.

833
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: And I know that the advice that the RNC gives

834
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: and Nancy Mace was talking about, Donald Trump has tried

835
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: to use as well as like, okay, we'll talk about

836
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: the third trimester, because that's where Democrats are on the

837
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 1: shakiest ground. That made a lot of sense when Roe

838
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: was in place, because all of the battleground over abortion

839
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: legislation was about the third trimester, because that was you know,

840
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: that was effectively what Roe determined.

841
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 5: Well, that's not the battleground anymore.

842
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 8: Now.

843
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: The battleground is over these near complete bands. It's over

844
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: things like IVF even stem cells, things like that being

845
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: put back on the table in this real flashback to

846
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: the early two thousands kind of debate. And I think

847
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: the best Republicans can hope for is that this kind

848
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: of you know, fades into the background that people are

849
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: talking about it as much. But as long as you

850
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: have these ballot initiatives and you have continued court decisions

851
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: like what just happened in Arizona, good luck with that.

852
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

853
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: I mean, there's going to have to be a massive

854
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: shift in public opinion and the cultural sort of position

855
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 4: on abortion if Republicans want to push the issue forward

856
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 4: without losing and suffering massive losses.

857
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: Biden knows this.

858
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 4: So Biden was also asked about the Arizona ruling yesterday

859
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 4: at the White House.

860
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 3: Let's rule this, this is B three on.

861
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 10: The issue of abortion service factory. What do you say

862
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 10: to the people of Arizona.

863
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 6: Right now, we're witnessing a law going place that dates

864
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 6: back to the Civil warrior.

865
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 7: Elect me, I'm in the twenty twentieth century, twenty first century.

866
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 7: Not back then you weren't even a state. I find

867
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 7: thank you all very much.

868
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 10: So.

869
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 4: The senns you're hearing, the dulcet tones of White House

870
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: reporters shouting at the top of their lungs is at

871
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 4: Joe Biden as he leaves the podium and.

872
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 5: Beautifully slowly shuffles away.

873
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: We may have an entry for best bidens, questionably of

874
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: all time there when he said, elect me, I'm in

875
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 4: the twentieth century.

876
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 3: I guess that's incredible.

877
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: Better than the nineteenth century, which is but the Republicans

878
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: are in that is the kind of choice that we're

879
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: faced with in this election. But didn't exactly stick the

880
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: landing there. But obviously I mean the fact that it's

881
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty four law.

882
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 5: Yes, it is very it is very potent.

883
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: And I'm reminded very much of the ad that was

884
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: run in the Kentucky governor's race a young woman who

885
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: was raped to saying, listen, Daniel Cameron, the Republican if

886
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: he's governor, I'd be forced to carry my I think

887
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: it was her stepfather who raped hers baby to term.

888
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: This was incredibly potent in that race, which you know,

889
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: really shifted towards Andy Basheer, the Democrat it was able

890
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: to get reelected, wasn't really even close at the end

891
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: of the day, and Kentucky much more conservative on this

892
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: issue than the majority of the country. You know, it

893
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: was wild for me, having lived in Kentucky previously and

894
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: being like a little bit obsessed with their politics to

895
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: see because Democrats have been getting killed in Kentucky for

896
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: years now on abortion. You know, this used to be

897
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: a solid Democratic state for years and years and years.

898
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: Was one of the last to sort of realign with

899
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: the Southern realignment. Appalachia, West Virginia, Kentucky where like the

900
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: last two states to really realign there and still at

901
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: the state level elect Democrats, as you can see with

902
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: with Andy Basheer, But it was cultural issues that killed

903
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: Democrats in that state. So to see like this the

904
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: way the script flipped and suddenly it was Democrats who

905
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: were wanting to talk about abortion. Previously, Republicans were running

906
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: all their ads on abortion this was the thing they

907
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the most, and to have that

908
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: flip on a dime. The Republicans are trying to avoid

909
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: the issue as much as possible, Democrats are trying to

910
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: run on the issue as much as possible and winning on.

911
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 5: Abortion in the state of Kentucky. That was wild to me.

912
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, there are tons of extremely just

913
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: heart wrenching, emotional stories out there that are all the

914
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: result of Row versus Way being overturned. And you can

915
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: bet you know Joe Biden's got a lot of other issues,

916
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: this is the.

917
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 5: One area where the more.

918
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: This is being talked about, no matter how Republicans try

919
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: to message, the stronger the Biden campaign's hand is here.

920
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I sort of feel like it's sort of

921
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: the reverse of immigration. Is that issue for Republicans, which

922
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: no matter what Joe Biden says, as much as he's like,

923
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,479
Speaker 1: I'm just like them, I'm just as you know, crol

924
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: and hardlism.

925
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 5: I want to do what Trump wants to do.

926
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: It's a bad issue for them and there's really nothing

927
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: they can do about it at this point without really

928
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: shifting the cultural narrative about it, and the media narrative

929
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: about it in all of those things in ways that

930
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: I personally support. But the more you're talking about that issue,

931
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: the more you're basically in quicksand for the Democratic Party

932
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: at this point, it's the same for Republicans. The best

933
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: they can do is just hope that it's not a

934
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: big topic a conversation.

935
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, there's really nothing they can do. I agree

936
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: with that completely.

937
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 4: And there's been a flurry of stories just in the

938
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 4: last couple of days about both the Trump campaign and

939
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 4: the Biden campaign, because again, we're heading into summer now,

940
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 4: we're heading into convention season. The parties are both I know,

941
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 4: it's insane, both very busy planning for a summer of campaigning.

942
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 4: And I'm actually really excited to put this next element

943
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 4: up on the screen. This is before it really is hilarious, Crystal.

944
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 3: There's a two different stories here.

945
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: One is an Associated Press report on the Trump campaign

946
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 4: and the Biden campaign, and some people were looking at

947
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 4: it and saying, these are huge takeaways. Less than five

948
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: staffers in each battleground state for Trump, they can't afford

949
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 4: to hire staff until the summer, and GP staffers are

950
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 4: trashing the twenty twenty four campaign.

951
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, over at.

952
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 4: Vanity Fair, Gabriel Sherman tweeted his own story out where

953
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 4: he said, for the May issue, I report on Trump's

954
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 4: weirdly competent and savvy twenty twenty four campaign.

955
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and inside the terrifyingly competent Trump twenty twenty four campaign.

956
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 4: So it's unclear as to whether Trump is just extremely

957
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 4: competent or so competent he's incompetent.

958
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 5: I don't know.

959
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 3: I just don't know what to make of it.

960
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: Actually, do you have any insights into what is reality here?

961
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: Because as I was reading the piece that said, okay,

962
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: they only have, it is kind of wild that you're

963
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: this close to the conventions and everything ramping up, you

964
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: only have like five staffers in battleground states. Meanwhile, they

965
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: contrast the Biden ministry, the Biden campaign is doing a

966
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: much more you know, traditional Okay.

967
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 5: We've got our offices open, we've.

968
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: Got our big staff on the ground, We're ready to

969
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: do our mail and balloting push and all that stuff.

970
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: On the other hand, when they ran in twenty twenty,

971
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign spent way too much money early and

972
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: then they were screwed down the stretch.

973
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 5: I think in Georgia.

974
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: They only they spent a tiny amount of money on

975
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: advertising because they just didn't have it. What's his name,

976
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: Brad Parscal's not his name. He was really sort of

977
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: thrown under the bus for spending wildly and you know,

978
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: putting the campaign in really dire streets from a funding perspective,

979
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: on the way, you know, on the way down the

980
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: stretch post labor days. So I'm wondering if there wasn't

981
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: a lesson learned from that of like, we're gonna we're

982
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: gonna harbor our resources, make sure that we've got everything

983
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: we can. And then there is a reality of a

984
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of his money has gone to legal bills. You know,

985
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: it's also hampered some of his ability to campaign because

986
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: he's got all these trial dates and court appearances that

987
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: he has to make as well. So strangely and surprisingly,

988
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: Biden is actually out campaigning more than Donald Trump, which

989
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: is certainly not something that I would have predicted.

990
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 5: So I'm not one hundred percent what to sure what

991
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 5: to make of this.

992
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I also think field programs, sorry,

993
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: field people out there, are overrated. They don't do all that,

994
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: especially in a presidential campaign where everybody already knows who

995
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 1: the candidates are, they've got their opinions formed, etc.

996
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 5: On the other hand, I do.

997
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: Think that the mail in ballot initiatives and early voting

998
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: initiatives that Democrats used in twenty twenty were so significant

999
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: as compared to the non existent Republican efforts, and like

1000
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: anti Republican efforts, like the fact that they were opposed to.

1001
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 5: Mail in balloting.

1002
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: I actually think that factor alone was the game changer.

1003
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: So it kind of depends for me on how I

1004
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: look at this, whether this is actually consequential or not.

1005
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I misspoked this as an NBC story. There's another

1006
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 4: AP story we're about to talk about. But in this

1007
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 4: NBC news story, there's a source quoted saying this is

1008
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 4: like comparing a Maserati to a Honda twenty twenty head

1009
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 4: staff and the bodies in place to turn out the vote.

1010
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 4: This current iteration is starting from ground zero and we're

1011
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 4: seven months out from the election. Meanwhile, the Gabriel Sherman

1012
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 4: piece in Vanity Fair is talking about how Donald Trump

1013
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 4: is surrounding himself with ultra loyalists. Now he's sort of

1014
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 4: learned the lesson of twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. By

1015
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 4: the way, twenty sixteen is a great example of your

1016
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 4: point about field operations. Asked Hillary Clinton, how that sort

1017
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 4: of traditional competence stump for her?

1018
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: I guess she's won the popular vote, but that's you know,

1019
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: you're see one president.

1020
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 4: Well, you know she's the rightful president if it weren't

1021
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: from leadmir Putiny. So anyway, all that is to say,

1022
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 4: this is a jexposition of a couple different things. On

1023
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 4: the one hand, you have a campaign that may be

1024
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: struggling to a wreck to that kind of infrastructure.

1025
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 3: On the other hand, you have.

1026
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 4: A campaign that is at least getting Gabe Sherman to

1027
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 4: believe it's so competent, because shockingly competent in fact, because

1028
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is, it's not leaking. So like they would

1029
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 4: point to the crazies, like I shouldn't even say crazy

1030
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 4: so much as like the eccentric people that.

1031
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 3: Were in his first campaigns.

1032
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and just said they leaked all the time, and

1033
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 4: Trump would pit them against each other in ways that

1034
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 4: intentionally sewed chaos, and that in and of itself was

1035
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 4: a huge distraction. But now he's just laser focused on

1036
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 4: the job at hand. Doesn't matter though to your point, Crystal,

1037
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 4: if you also have to pay huge legal bills that

1038
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: are going to take away, no matter what, from his

1039
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: ability to campaign on the ground. That's why he's not

1040
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 4: doing so many rallies because they're stupid expensive.

1041
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: So there are real challenges for him.

1042
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 4: Being around the country in different courtrooms is going to

1043
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 4: be a real challenge for him.

1044
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: So it's a couple of different things.

1045
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 4: On the one hand, I do think he learned his

1046
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 4: lesson of you know, you really need to have He

1047
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 4: installed loyalists at the RNC, for example, like ousted Ron

1048
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 4: and McDaniel.

1049
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 3: Here's the AP story. This is the next element.

1050
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 4: As Biden tours the country and visits Swing states, their

1051
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 4: headline says Trump is fundraising and playing golf. You know,

1052
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 4: it's still Biden is really out there in a way

1053
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 4: that I find surprising. They're doing these really carefully, really

1054
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 4: carefully stage managed.

1055
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 3: Events, and.

1056
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 4: It's based what they can do at this point. But

1057
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 4: I'm sure Trump would be doing that if he could.

1058
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 1: I think they feel like they have to to try

1059
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: to combat the you know, Biden's too old sense and Trump, meanwhile,

1060
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: I think, probably feels like my people are with me,

1061
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: like and I got other stuff going on, and I

1062
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: need to be raised of money because they are significantly behind.

1063
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: Even with this huge fifty million dollar fundraising event that

1064
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: they just had, they're still significantly behind where the Democrats are.

1065
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 1: And as mentioned before, some of that is bled out

1066
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: through legal bills as well.

1067
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 5: So the problems for him are real.

1068
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, the two dueling narratives there, Both of them

1069
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: serve a sort of like useful liberal narrative. On the

1070
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: one hand, the Gabe Sherman one, the terrifyingly competent, Like

1071
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: even that language that's like the biggest Democratic or left

1072
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: of center or anti Trump fear is oh shit, last

1073
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: time we got lucky because he was incompetent. Yeah, so

1074
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: the worst of what he wanted to do, like stop

1075
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: the steal. I mean, it is true, he wanted to

1076
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: steal the election, and he was basically too incompetent to

1077
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: actually get it done.

1078
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 3: And he wasn't surrounded by yes men.

1079
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: And that's right, he didn't have all his loyalists in place.

1080
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: So now this time around, he's got his ducks in

1081
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: a row, he's got all his loyalists in place, he's

1082
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: got a plan. It's going to be different, and the

1083
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: most terrifying version of Trump is going to occupy the

1084
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 1: White House. So that narrative is served by the Gabe

1085
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: Sherman piece, you know, the other piece of just like haha,

1086
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: will laugh at how this is like bumbling and or

1087
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: they don't even have staffers. They're on money, like he's

1088
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, he's on the ropes, et cetera. Obviously serves

1089
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: a different, useful liberal narrative where the truth lies. It's

1090
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: very hard for me to discern from the outside, but

1091
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think we have enough data points at

1092
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: this at this juncture to say it does look like

1093
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: Trump is taking on a little bit of water and

1094
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: that he isn't doing as well as he once was

1095
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:51,280
Speaker 1: in the polls.

1096
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 5: One indication of this, for what.

1097
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: It's worth, is the predicted odds now actually have Joe

1098
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: Biden favored over Trump. We can put this up on

1099
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: the screen, So Biden is at just looking this morning,

1100
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: fifty two cents.

1101
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 5: Trump is at forty six cents.

1102
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: So, you know, for again, for what it's worth, the

1103
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: people who are trying to bet based on the outcome

1104
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: of this election, now there's slightly favoring Joe Biden. We've

1105
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 1: had a number of polls that have shifted in his direction,

1106
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: though it's still very much is a jump ball. And

1107
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: part of why maybe Trump is maybe taking on a

1108
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: little bit of water he can put this up on

1109
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,320
Speaker 1: the screen is his legal troubles. You know, this is

1110
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: the latest headline. His former close executive Alan Weislerberg, who

1111
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: really was like his right hand man in a lot

1112
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: of ways, was just sentenced to five months in jail

1113
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: for lying basically lying on behalf of Donald Trump right,

1114
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: which is no one should go to Rikers. That's a

1115
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: whole other story. But part of what he was I

1116
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: think he pled guilty to here and took this deal,

1117
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: was lying about the size of Trump's the pet condo,

1118
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: the penthouse, which is central to Letitia James civil fraud

1119
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: suit against Trump in New York. So the fact that

1120
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: all these stories Trump's criminal trial on the Stormy Daniels

1121
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: hush money thing, I think is set to start next week.

1122
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 5: It's happening.

1123
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: They're still trying to delay it, et cetera, et cetera,

1124
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: but that looks like it's going to start imminently. All

1125
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,959
Speaker 1: of these stories are in the headlines more and more

1126
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: as legal action ramps up, and maybe that's one of

1127
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: the reasons why possibly he is taking on a little

1128
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: bit of water here.

1129
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, Michael Cohene claims Weisselberg has a lot of knowledge

1130
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 4: of what happened in the hush money case, and jury's

1131
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 4: selection for that is set to start next week. I

1132
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 4: think it's yet to be determined what a fact these

1133
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 4: legal battles have on Donald Trump as we get closer

1134
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 4: and closer to the election, how voters react to it.

1135
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: But you know, we were talking about this earlier in

1136
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 3: the show, Crystal.

1137
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 4: I know for sure one thing that likely won't be

1138
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 4: the most effective for the Biden campaign is just leaning

1139
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 4: on the Trump is insane crutch over and over again

1140
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 4: when inflation is where it is.

1141
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: Maybe, although it worked pretty well them in the midterms,

1142
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: I would have said that too true. But it did

1143
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: work pretty well for them in the midterms, and you

1144
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: know the.

1145
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 3: But with the whole country, I mean in a presidential.

1146
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. I genuinely I really don't know.

1147
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: You know, I think abortion is way more potent than

1148
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: I expected it to be. People didn't vote on the

1149
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: economy in the way that I expected them to in

1150
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: the midterms, where Democrats really outperformed. We've had all of

1151
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: these special elections that have gone to Democrats, and it

1152
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: could be the case that when you have a general

1153
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: election and you have a much wider electorate, that some

1154
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: of those trends are less significant. But I genuinely don't

1155
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: know at this point, which is why oftentimes I feel

1156
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: like when we cover politics and the show, we'll do

1157
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: one block that's like inflation is really bad for biding,

1158
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: and the next one's like an abortion and really good drum,

1159
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: and I really bad for Trumps.

1160
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 5: So I don't know. That's where I am. I just

1161
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 5: genuinely don't know.

1162
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: One thing I do know, though, is I am not

1163
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: gonna be sending lunchibules in my kids lunchboxes anymore. So

1164
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: consumer reports out with some new information about lunchables, the

1165
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: popular item packed in many school lunchboxes, including plenty of

1166
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: times in my kids school lunchboxes.

1167
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 5: Now I feel like a terrible mother.

1168
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: But also, and this is very notable, was recently approved

1169
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: to be included in cafeteria lunches. So kids are also

1170
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, getting these as school lunch and their schools

1171
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: in many schools across the nation. Let's put this up

1172
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 1: on the screen with the details. So the headline here

1173
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: is should you pack lunchables for your kids' school lunch?

1174
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 1: The answer effectively is a resounding no. CRS tests found

1175
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: the lunch kits and some similar ones from Armor, oscar

1176
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: Meyer and others contained lead and other contaminants and were

1177
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: high in sodium. Let me read you a little bit

1178
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: of this report. So here are the findings.

1179
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 5: They say.

1180
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot to be concerned about in these kids,

1181
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: says Amykating, a registered dietitian at Consumer Reports. They're highly

1182
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: processed and regularly eating process meat I mean ingredient many

1183
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: of these products has been linked to increased risk of

1184
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 1: some cancers. We also found that some kids had potentially

1185
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: concerning heavy metal and how do you say this?

1186
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 5: They late theay late levels.

1187
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: And they're too high in sodium, especially for kids. Do

1188
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: you think the school lunch versions might be better? Sorry,

1189
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: they have even more sodium than the store pot versions.

1190
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: Bottom line, we don't think anybody should regularly eat these products,

1191
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: and they definitely shouldn't be considered a healthy school lunch,

1192
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: says Eric Boring, PhD, a Consumer Reports chemist who led

1193
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: CRS testing. Let me just read you a little bit

1194
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: more here about the lead and cadmium piece, which to

1195
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: me was in some ways the most concerning. They say,

1196
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: Our experts found lead cadmium are both in all of

1197
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: the kits that they tested, even in small amounts. Obviously,

1198
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: these heavy metals can cause developmental problems in children. None

1199
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: of the kids we looked at exceeded any legal or

1200
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,479
Speaker 1: regulatory limits. Still, five of the twelve tested products would

1201
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: expose someone to fifty percent or more of California's max

1202
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: allowable dose level for lead or cadmium. Our experts use

1203
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 1: those values because there are no federal limits for heavy

1204
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 1: metals in most foods. That is a relatively high dose

1205
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: of heavy metals given these small serving sizes of the products,

1206
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: which range from just two to four ounces. Their analyst says,

1207
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: for example, the kids provide only about fifteen percent of

1208
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: the sixteen hundred daily calories that a typical eight year

1209
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: old requires, but that small amount of food puts them

1210
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: fairly close to the daily maximum limit for lead. Even

1211
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: if one meal kit doesn't push a kid over the limit,

1212
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: it puts them in the danger zone because there will

1213
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: likely be exposure from other sources. So if a child

1214
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: gets more than half of the daily limit for lead

1215
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: from so few calories, there is little room for potential

1216
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: exposure from other foods, drinking water, or the environment.

1217
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 4: Emily, it's really I mean, I shouldn't say it's a

1218
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 4: shocking report, but it's shocking in the respect that we

1219
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 4: our food safety standards are so completely distorted. And one

1220
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 4: of the reasons for that is just actually even in

1221
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 4: the company that oversees launchroples in their name, which is

1222
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 4: Craft High Craft Hines. These are very powerful companies in Washington,

1223
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 4: d C. Obviously, Hines is the family that John carry

1224
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 4: married into and Hunter Biden, the Bidens actually have used

1225
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 4: to at least have relationships with people in that family.

1226
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 4: And it's not just that specific. I mean, it's just

1227
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 4: years and years of completely turning the regulations into Swiss

1228
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 4: cheese based on who has access, and that's how you

1229
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 4: end up getting things like this approved for school lunches,

1230
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 4: and that makes more money for the company because that

1231
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 4: means it's more sales around the country. So it's just

1232
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,919
Speaker 4: a special interest carving out or car at chipping away

1233
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 4: at which should be obvious standards that we understand, but

1234
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 4: we can't trust the regulatory agencies to do that on

1235
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 4: a consistent and principal basis.

1236
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: So way back in twenty ten, I out of nowhere

1237
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,479
Speaker 1: decided to run for Congress. I was a new mom,

1238
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: And maybe this sounds silly, or maybe it sounds really

1239
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how it sounds. But one of the

1240
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: things that really drove me to take such what at

1241
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: that point in my life was a really drastic step

1242
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: was I was shopping for baby bottles for my infant

1243
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: and realized I had to be really educated to make

1244
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: sure there weren't toxins in the baby bottles. And you

1245
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: just start to think, You're like, this is insane. How

1246
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: could we expose these little, vulnerable beings to such a

1247
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: perilous system. And when you really start to pull on

1248
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: that thread, it connects to everything, because, like you just said,

1249
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: there's a reason why lunchables are allowed in school lunches.

1250
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: There's a reason why lunchables are allowed to have potentially

1251
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: dangerous amounts of lead. And it is all about money

1252
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: and politics and corrupt capture of these regulatory agencies and

1253
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: the assault on these regulatory agencies in the neoliberal era,

1254
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: where the budgets are cut and they're staffing stripped, and

1255
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: they are undermined to the extent that even if they

1256
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: had the standards, they don't have the capability to enforce

1257
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: the standards. I did a piece back in the Rising

1258
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: Days about similar things being found in baby formula, and

1259
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: you just ask you, like, as someone who's trying to

1260
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: do their best for their kids, how do you even

1261
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: know what that is?

1262
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 5: Because listen, I was under no illusions lunchibles were like the.

1263
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: Greatest options for my kids, but I didn't think they

1264
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: were the worst.

1265
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 5: Am No big deal?

1266
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 11: Right?

1267
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: If they have these occasionally, that's fine, right, No, apparently

1268
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: it's not.

1269
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 5: And specifically you put this up on the screen.

1270
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: Watch them posted a report a while back about how

1271
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: lunchibles ended up on school lunch trees and the sub

1272
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: had your weak rules in industry power have allowed ultra

1273
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: processed products onto the menu. And there's a lot of

1274
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: things going on here. So first of all, you've got

1275
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 1: school funding, you know, being undermined, which means both that

1276
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: you have fewer cafeteria workers will guess what, lunchables super easy.

1277
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 5: You just stack them up.

1278
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: Kids can grab them for themselves, and they are familiar

1279
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 1: with them and they're likely to eat them. Number Two,

1280
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: the group that makes these recommendations has a ton of

1281
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: received industry and has industry ties. So of course if

1282
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: you're craft times, they say, this is a twenty five

1283
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: billion dollar growth opportunity in the school lunch market. And

1284
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: in order to meet these little bit of standards that

1285
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: we have for quote unquote healthy school lunches, which are

1286
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: utterly pathetic, ketchup is still considered a vegetable by the way,

1287
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, they could tweak it a little bit, and

1288
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: actually in those tweaks to up, for example, the protein content,

1289
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: they just pump it full of even more sodium, so

1290
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: they're actually in certain ways worse for your kids. The

1291
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: quote unquote healthy school lunch is actually worse for your kids.

1292
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: And it gets to not only this corruption, but also

1293
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: it gets to like, what are our values in this country?

1294
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 5: Yes, what are val Like? We're feeding kids.

1295
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: Poison at schools. We're a wealthy country. We can't afford

1296
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: to have at least some decent, nutritious stuff that our

1297
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: kids are eating when they're trying to learn and their

1298
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: brains are developing and they're in this critical time period.

1299
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: And look at the health fallout, look at the obesity rates,

1300
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: look at the chronic health problems that we have in

1301
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: this country, some of which is, you know, due to

1302
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: the fact we don't have universal healthcare, and a lot

1303
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: of it is due to the fact of the influence

1304
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: of big food and how cheap and easy this stuff

1305
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: is and how much we pump kids full of it

1306
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: from a very early age.

1307
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of this happened really quickly, and we

1308
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 4: were like the frogs in the boiling pot and didn't

1309
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 4: realize that we were guinea pigs in this mass experiment

1310
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 4: that had some really damaging consequences. One of the interesting

1311
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 4: things we can put the next element up on the

1312
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 4: screen about lunchables in particular. This was a San Francisco

1313
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 4: Gate story. There's some actually some good books that have

1314
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 4: been written or that touch on this topic of actually

1315
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 4: lunchibles in particular. The subheading of this story is a

1316
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 4: cigarette giant turned the middling product into a lunchtime juggernaut. Well,

1317
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 4: what that means is actually, as cigarette sales started to plummet,

1318
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 4: Philip Morris, Philip Morris made lunchabules. They popularized lunchibles. Essentially

1319
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 4: bought lunchabules and found a way to market them with

1320
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 4: great success, market them to parents and find a way

1321
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 4: to make them super, super tasty for kids.

1322
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: Here's a great quote from the San Francisco Gate piece.

1323
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 4: They say, if your impression is that the lack of

1324
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 4: nutrition in lunchibles is a byproduct of cost saving measures,

1325
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 4: Lunchible's history belies that perhaps the strangest thing about Lunchible's

1326
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 4: legacy is that its manufacturers repeatedly try to pivot toward

1327
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 4: healthier ingredients, only to fail every time. They just continued

1328
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 4: the lunchibles with fruit line. People actually might even remember

1329
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 4: that it's just their business. This is their business, and

1330
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 4: it's really I think perfect that Philip Morris is who

1331
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 4: popularized the Lunchi bowl.

1332
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 10: It just speaks to.

1333
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 4: Exactly how backwards are approach to food food safety is.

1334
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 4: And I think we're starting to catch up and starting

1335
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 4: to understand the way that these foods are intentionally designed

1336
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 4: to maximize their addictive quality, is to maximize their non

1337
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 4: perishability or their slow perishability and all of that. It's

1338
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 4: really sad, but we've all been experiments in this for

1339
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 4: you know, decades. My mom's rule was I only got

1340
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 4: lunchables on field trips, and that was like the best,

1341
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 4: because I love pizza, lunchibles.

1342
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 3: They're really good. They're really good.

1343
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: Kyle loves people Pizza lunchable that is that is not

1344
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: surprising at all, so disgusting because they're not even heated. Uh,

1345
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: it's just like this cold bread. Yes it's great and

1346
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: it's like gross tomato sauce.

1347
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 3: But you get to make it.

1348
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's but that was the thing.

1349
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: So apparently the origin story is oscar Meyer had like

1350
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: balooney was not really popular anymore, and they had all this.

1351
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 5: Extra bologny and they're like, what are we going to

1352
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 5: do with all this boloney?

1353
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: And so this is what they came up with was, Aha,

1354
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: we'll market it to these kids and be like, oh.

1355
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 5: You're in control.

1356
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: You're empowered in your lunch because you, you know, put

1357
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: the cracker in the cheese and the meat together, so you're.

1358
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 5: In control of the lunchible. You the kid, You the kid.

1359
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to and obviously listen as a parent, you know,

1360
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: I can relate to this. I don't know why I

1361
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: hate making school lunches like I hate making lunches. There's

1362
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 1: something about that. It's like the bane of my parental existence.

1363
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: And so if you've got this thing, you can just

1364
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: pull off the shelve and stick in the lunch box.

1365
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: It's pretty nice, right, So it appealed to the kids,

1366
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: appealed to the parents, and they started selling like hotcakes.

1367
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: But the problem was, to begin with, it actually wasn't

1368
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: profitable because the trays cost too much money. And so

1369
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: that was the Philip Morris when they bought I guess

1370
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: they bought Craft. Yeah, so it was Oscar mind and

1371
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: then they merged with Craft and morris By's Craft anyway, whatever.

1372
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 5: Already there's a monopoly story here too.

1373
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: By the way, they're like, well, no, if you're selling them,

1374
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: we're going to figure out how to make them profitable,

1375
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: and so they crack the code of how to make

1376
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: them profitable and then the rest of his history. But

1377
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: you know, I also think it's the fact that the

1378
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: fruit ones and the more healthy ones failed also says

1379
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: something too, because it's not like, obviously, if you just

1380
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: get the lunch abowles out of the food system, then

1381
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: it's all going to be fixed. It's that you have

1382
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: a whole systemic problem. And so yeah, kids are like, oh,

1383
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: this is the I'm used to eating all the time,

1384
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: So no, I don't want this like healthier version I

1385
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: want the crap. That's what I'm used to, right, That's

1386
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: what my body is like raised on and expects, and

1387
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: we obviously see disasterus health consequences down the line.

1388
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 5: So anyway, the reason.

1389
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 4: We're so attraction to these foods, at least you know,

1390
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 4: in the moment, short term, is because they're not There's

1391
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 4: these are combinations that are not found in nature, right,

1392
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 4: and it's made to be as palatable as possible. Like

1393
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 4: think about like skittles, like taste great immediately and then

1394
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I just ate plastic, all right, but

1395
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 4: I just feel like right, yeah, but it's that's again,

1396
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 4: these are it's it's preying on I think a real

1397
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 4: problem of moms needing convenient, Like moms are overworked, moms

1398
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 4: are doing so much and parents in general are doing

1399
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 4: so much, and this is just like praying on the

1400
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 4: need for something really easy.

1401
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's kind of a two income trap story here,

1402
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: yes as well, you know, as you need to income

1403
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: earners in the household time to you know, carefully prepare

1404
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: a healthy and neutrient.

1405
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 5: Just lunch is less available.

1406
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 4: And I don't know the story about lunch bols in particular,

1407
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 4: but a lot of these foods have been given the

1408
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 4: rubber stamp of healthy because they have corporate capture the

1409
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 4: at the regulatory agencies that allow you to put that

1410
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 4: you're healthy on the box of cereal, that you're a

1411
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 4: good source of whatever in the box of cereal, and

1412
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 4: it's just it's not really true in the big pictures.

1413
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 4: So it's really sad what we've allowed to happen to

1414
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 4: the thing. And just very briefly from a conservative perspective,

1415
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 4: when there's criticism of regulation, you know, I think there's

1416
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 4: some reasonable criticism of regulation in some sectors, but in

1417
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 4: other sectors when we're talking about literally the thing that

1418
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 4: is the building block of a healthy family.

1419
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 3: How can you have a healthy, happy.

1420
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 4: Family if what we are eating we are told is

1421
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 4: healthy and it's actually terrible for you, Like, that's not

1422
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 4: the pathway to fulfillment, success as a human being, just

1423
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 4: prospering as families. It's just obviously deregulating the industries that

1424
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 4: are our physical health when our physical health is on

1425
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 4: the line is probably not the way to go.

1426
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a real conservative core value of putting actual

1427
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 1: family values, yeah, and protection of children above even like

1428
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: corporate profit margins, absolutely so I think that's an important note.

1429
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 5: All right, guys, for the latest sound of Israel and Gaza.

1430
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: Are very fortunate, Pete joined by a fantastic guest this morning,

1431
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: so let's go ahead and get to that. For the

1432
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: latest on developments out of Israel and Gaza, we are

1433
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: very fortunate this morning to be joined by an extraordinary

1434
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: journalist and Israeli journalist, Gideon Levy. He's also a calumnist

1435
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 1: for Haretz and an author. Welcome, sir, so great to

1436
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: have you.

1437
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 10: Thank you very much for having me.

1438
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put Gideon's latest column here up

1439
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: on the screen. The headline here is no victory awaits

1440
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 1: Israel in Rafa, only more death and destruction. We just

1441
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,719
Speaker 1: read you a little bit of this for the audience.

1442
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: On the eve of the possible quest of Rafa. One

1443
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: camp demands Rafa and another camp demands the release of

1444
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: the hostages. No one says no to the conquest of Rafa.

1445
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: No reservist threatens to refuse to serve in Rafa if

1446
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 1: Israel invades the city. In the face of the lust

1447
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: for blood and revenge. There is no opposing camp. Only

1448
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: against Benjamin nt Yahoo, the primary culprit, but not the

1449
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: only one. Is there a determined camp. What do you

1450
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: think is the significance of the Israeli plans to invade Rafa.

1451
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 11: I know their way of thinking, namely that without Rafa

1452
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 11: we will never break Hamas. But they say souls in

1453
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 11: Communis they say soul. So in Gaza city it's always

1454
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 11: like the horizon. The next stop will be the finest one,

1455
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 11: and you'll never reach it. Because meanwhile, in the north

1456
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 11: part of Gaza you see this Kramas is big. We

1457
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 11: have to know a few things about Rafa. Raffa is

1458
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 11: the southstu in the Gaza street, mainly operated by refugees

1459
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 11: from nineteen forty eight, a very poor place.

1460
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 10: I've with them many times.

1461
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 11: But in this war, in the last half year, one

1462
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 11: point two million uprooted people replaced. People were told by

1463
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 11: is to find rescue in Ruffe. Without any kind of

1464
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 11: infrastructure or water, would no place to stay, living in

1465
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 11: kind of tents. And now Israel wants to invade this

1466
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 11: biggest refuge place in the world, maybe the biggest refugee place. Sorry,

1467
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 11: And I asked myself where will those people go and

1468
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 11: who will guarantee their lives? Those are people who went

1469
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 11: through hell in the last half a year. Those people

1470
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,759
Speaker 11: lost everything in their lives. Part of them lost their relative,

1471
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 11: their parents, their sons, their children. Part of them lost

1472
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 11: their homes. Also they lost their own What do we

1473
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 11: want them now? So therefore, by my really opinion is Liz,

1474
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 11: give it up, give it up, because nothing would make

1475
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 11: out of it.

1476
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I want to stay on that point of

1477
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 4: what could come out of it, even you know, sort

1478
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 4: of taking the net Yahoo argument at face value about

1479
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 4: how this is essential to the destruction of Hamas. From

1480
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 4: your perspective, if this is if this operation goes ahead,

1481
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 4: what even is the best case scenario for the net

1482
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 4: Yahoo administration, Because one thing we know for sure is

1483
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 4: that it's it's not going to destroy Hamas and an

1484
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 4: operation in Ravas there is just that's that does not

1485
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 4: assure the destruction of Hamas. So what could the outcome

1486
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 4: be even the best case scenario for the net Yahoo administration.

1487
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 10: No, there is no best case scenario. There's nothing good

1488
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 10: in this scenario.

1489
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 11: The best sending case scenario from their point of view

1490
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 11: was really to destroy Hamas. But we both agree that

1491
01:11:56,040 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 11: this is not achievable because Hamas is of being destroyed,

1492
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 11: and there is story such an organization. There is a

1493
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 11: way to harm the military capabilities, and this is what

1494
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 11: it done enough in the last half the year. There

1495
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 11: is no best case scenario. PONTANIAO. I'm afraid there are

1496
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,560
Speaker 11: also different calculations. As long as the goals going on.

1497
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 11: His government is in power, there are no elections, and

1498
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 11: his career is guaranteed. Is it the only consideration? I'm

1499
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 11: sure not. Is it one of his considerations?

1500
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 10: Yes? Is it jitimate one?

1501
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: Get in you right in your column. There is no

1502
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 1: opposition to war in Israel, and I wonder why you

1503
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: think that is. I mean, at this point we even

1504
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: have the US government acknowledging there's a famine at least

1505
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: in northern Gaza. We are seeing children who are starving

1506
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: to death, babies who are starving to death. We have

1507
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: somewhere around forty thousand Palestinians who have been killed, many

1508
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: of them the majority of whom are women in children.

1509
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 1: Why is there no significant opposition to this war in Israel?

1510
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 11: Because something very dramatic happened on the seventh of October

1511
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 11: when Israel and israelis stall nose atrocities in the south,

1512
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 11: the killing the kidnapping and other crimes that were conducted there.

1513
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 10: They decided that they are.

1514
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 11: Not interested anymore at all any kind of embassy toward

1515
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 11: the Palestinians, in any kind of dialog with the Palestinians,

1516
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:36,839
Speaker 11: in anything with the Palestian It's a very emotional, primative reaction,

1517
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 11: which I cannot criticize, but that's not the policy.

1518
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,560
Speaker 10: And above all the Israelis and Israel.

1519
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 11: Go to the conclusion that after those crimes, has the

1520
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 11: right to do whatever it wants, and this is almost illegal,

1521
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 11: enormous as well as things like any country in the world,

1522
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 11: and it cannot do whatever. Words to this year have

1523
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 11: to add the fact that the Israeli media, free and commercial,

1524
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 11: private owned, had decided voluntarily that they are not going

1525
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 11: to batther the Israelis with scenes from Gaza.

1526
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 10: You will not see the suppware, you will not see

1527
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 10: the starvation, you will not see the destruction.

1528
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 11: Because we know you Israelis, you don't want to see it,

1529
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 11: and we will do this service for you, and we

1530
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 11: will not show it for me.

1531
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 10: And that's that's fatal.

1532
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 11: Because most of the Israelis are not exposed to nothing

1533
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 11: from what is going on in Gaza, and this shapes

1534
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 11: their mind.

1535
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 10: They really believe that Israel.

1536
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 11: Is killing only terrorists who deserve to be killed, and

1537
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 11: Israel is living peace ws in and are quite happy

1538
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 11: about this warm as they are very unhappy with the

1539
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 11: fact that the ostrigers are still missing. They are very

1540
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 11: unhappy with the killings of Israeli soldiers. They are very

1541
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 11: empathetic about the unbelievable human tragedy on the other side.

1542
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 4: Well, and just on that point about the hostages, and

1543
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 4: while we're talking about Rafa, because that is front of

1544
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 4: mine for so many people, and as you were just explaining,

1545
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 4: is really public opinion. What's the potential outcome for the

1546
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 4: remaining hostages if there is a ground.

1547
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 3: Operation in Rafa going forward? What's the potential outcome is there?

1548
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 4: Is it possible that the kind of best case scenario

1549
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 4: of recovering hostages safely and getting families some closure or

1550
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 4: at least some certainty, is an outcome ahead or what

1551
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 4: do you make of that get in You.

1552
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 10: Know, I don't know. I don't know, because nobody knows

1553
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:44,640
Speaker 10: where are the hostages.

1554
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 11: But I know one thing is really striving now for

1555
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 11: six months to release them through military pressure, very messing

1556
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 11: military pressure. Killings and destruction. It didn't work. Why would

1557
01:15:58,439 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 11: you work?

1558
01:15:58,880 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 10: Now?

1559
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 11: We have to realize that the hostages will and can

1560
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 11: be released only in one way, through a deal, and

1561
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 11: a deal means Israel paying for their release, paying not

1562
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 11: in money, but in terms of releasing a Palestinian prisoner,

1563
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 11: big quantities and other conditions. If joy is so eager

1564
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 11: to see the hostage frae, it should have gone for

1565
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 11: a deal long time ago.

1566
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to get your reaction getting in if we

1567
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: can put guys D one up on the screen. Yesterday

1568
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,879
Speaker 1: there was an Israeli military strike that killed three children

1569
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: of the Hamas political leader is Mael Honiah and Gaza,

1570
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: along with a number something like three of his young

1571
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: grandchildren as well. There was a lot of theorizing that

1572
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: this could be connected to the ceasefire talks that are ongoing.

1573
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how likely successful those ceasefire talks are

1574
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: going to be, but do you see these two things

1575
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: as connected? Because the theory was that now, who doesn't

1576
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: really want a ceasefire at the moment, as you pointed

1577
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 1: out and many others appointed out as well, he needs

1578
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 1: this war to continue in order to keep his hold

1579
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: on power. Do you think that there's a connection there

1580
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 1: and what do you make of these strikes?

1581
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 11: The Isuelis claim the authorities claim that this operation was

1582
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 11: not approved by high levels. Is it true or not?

1583
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:23,679
Speaker 11: I can't tell, but that's their claim. It was local

1584
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 11: commanders who approved this operation. If so, then something is

1585
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 11: very wrong in the decision making process of the Israeli

1586
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 11: Army because such sensitive operation, feeling six members of the

1587
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 11: family of Israeilanea in such a sensitive time, which goes

1588
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 11: for high ranks and politicians and government, shows that we

1589
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 11: are facing anarchy in the Isuli Army. This cannot be

1590
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 11: accepted that such an operation will not.

1591
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 14: Be approved by the highest drinks until the primaryst so

1592
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 14: other either there is a plucky or they are lying

1593
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 14: and most possibilities I cannot tell you where is the truth?

1594
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 10: I don't know.

1595
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: I think it's now long been clear that the military

1596
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:17,719
Speaker 1: operation in Gaza has not been some surgical hunt for Hamas. Obviously,

1597
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 1: Nanyahu has his own political considerations of just trying to

1598
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: hold onto power as long as possible. But from your perspective,

1599
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: getting what is the true goal, what are the true

1600
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: motivating reasons for the all out destruction and annihilation that

1601
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 1: we've seen, and starvation used as a weapon of war

1602
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: that we've seen in Gaza.

1603
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 11: I truly believe that the main motivation is to punish,

1604
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:49,040
Speaker 11: to take revenge, to show the people of Israel that

1605
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 11: we are doing something too, that we are teaching the

1606
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 11: Palestinians and Hamas lesson.

1607
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 10: Every serious person knows that much more or will not

1608
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 10: come out of this war.

1609
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 11: Nothing of the goals will be achieved, and nothing worth

1610
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 11: achieved than half the year. It's not that I'm speculating now.

1611
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,719
Speaker 11: In half the year, one of the longest walls between

1612
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 11: Israel and Palace is the achieved nothing. Why to believe

1613
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 11: that another half the year will be any better? But

1614
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 11: by the end of the day, it's really to punish

1615
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 11: and to take revenge.

1616
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 10: Is it legitimate? I doubt it. Is it justified? I

1617
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 10: don't know. Is it clever? I know that's very much.

1618
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 5: What level of pressure do you feel personally?

1619
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: Because I have to say, I really admire your courage

1620
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 1: being and as really journalists runing an Israeli newspaper and

1621
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: expressing opinions that, as you yourself will readily admit, are

1622
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 1: basically unheard of throughout most of Israeli society. What sort

1623
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: of personal pressure have you come under, especially post October seventh.

1624
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 11: I must be friends with you and tell you that

1625
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 11: if from so many points of view, I went through

1626
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:04,600
Speaker 11: was wars. From my perspective in terms of being exposed

1627
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 11: to pressure, to threats, and two Fotina even had the

1628
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:11,679
Speaker 11: bodyguards because there was no other choice.

1629
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 10: The main.

1630
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 11: Loneliness, the main really challenge, is the fact that many

1631
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 11: of my friends changed their mind in.

1632
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 10: This war and didn't turn back.

1633
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 11: So part of what was called the Beascamp really changed

1634
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 11: its mind dramatically, and I'm more lonely than ever. It's

1635
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 11: not very pleasant, but it's much less pleasant to be

1636
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 11: in now refugure in rough at this I can ensure.

1637
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we really admire your courage and your principles.

1638
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: I've been reading you closely for quite a while now,

1639
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: so it's an honor to get to speak with you,

1640
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful for you taking some time with.

1641
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 5: Us this morning.

1642
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 10: Thank you very much for having me.

1643
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 5: It's our pleasure.

1644
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:58,400
Speaker 3: Stay safe.

1645
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson over at the Tucker Carlson Network did an

1646
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 4: interview with a pastor in the West Bank, a Palestinian

1647
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 4: pastor in the West Bank that made huge waves sort

1648
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 4: of across.

1649
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 3: The online right this week.

1650
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 4: I would just want to start with a clip from

1651
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 4: the interview and then we can get into why exactly

1652
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 4: people are so upset about it. So here's a Tucker

1653
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 4: Carlson with Isaac Munther, a Lutheran pastor again in the

1654
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 4: West Bank.

1655
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:28,680
Speaker 12: If you wake up in the morning and decide that

1656
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 12: your Christian faith requires you to support a foreign government

1657
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 12: blowing up churches and killing Christians, I think you've lost

1658
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 12: the thread. Just to end on this, if you had

1659
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 12: a message for Christian leaders in the United States, whether

1660
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 12: in government or in churches, or just citizens who care

1661
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 12: about the religion their fellow Christians, what would it be.

1662
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 13: It would be to remind them that when the state

1663
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 13: of Israel was created, it was not created on an

1664
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 13: empty land. It was created on a land that had

1665
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 13: many a self indigenous Potestinians, including Palestinian Christians, and that

1666
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 13: that state they support, that state they celebrated as a

1667
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 13: fulfillment of prophecy and the sign of God's state to

1668
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 13: the Jewish people. For it to become a state, hundreds

1669
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 13: of thousands of Palestinians, including Palestinian Christians were forced to

1670
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 13: leave and have never returned. There is a very very

1671
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,879
Speaker 13: brutal war taking place, and a war that I've described

1672
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 13: using the word genocide because it's a war that has

1673
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 13: used if it's starvation as a me and fellow Christians

1674
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 13: are suffering because of that war.

1675
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 12: Father, thank you for your thoroughly decent and sensible analysis,

1676
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,719
Speaker 12: and I hope it's heard by Christians.

1677
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 10: Ruth the West.

1678
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 3: Okay, so again the key Tucker Carlson quote.

1679
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 4: There, if you wake up in the morning and decide

1680
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 4: your Christian faith requires you to support a foreign government

1681
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 4: blowing up churches and killing Christians, I think you've lost

1682
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 4: the thread. That could also obviously be applied to the

1683
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 4: United States in the Cold War era. We talk about

1684
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 4: Al Salvador and all of that. But just sticking here

1685
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 4: for now, it's worth noting there's so much to kind

1686
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 4: of break down from this, but it's worth noting that

1687
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 4: so I grew up missourition and Lutherans in the United

1688
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 4: States a more conservative denomination of Lutheranism than Evangelical Lutheranism

1689
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 4: alka the Evangelical luther in Church of America. This denomination

1690
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 4: of Lutheranism in the Holy Land. Is it's worth again

1691
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 4: saying more liberal this particular. So the person that Tucker

1692
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 4: Carlson interviewed actually was sort of championing the ordination of women,

1693
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 4: like kind of a progressive denomination, progressive version of Lutheranism,

1694
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:38,320
Speaker 4: which is an interesting kind of crossover with Tucker Carlson

1695
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 4: finding common cause on that question of Christian persecution. There

1696
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:46,799
Speaker 4: are about three thousand of his denomination Lutherans in Gaza.

1697
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 4: There are forty seven thousand Christians. At least that was

1698
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 4: as of twenty seventeen. I'm sure that number has gone down.

1699
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,679
Speaker 4: So he also went viral last year, which some people

1700
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 4: may remember. Chris, so I think you remember this. He

1701
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 4: had this viral sermon Christmas sermon where he said if

1702
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 4: Jesus were to be born today, he would be born

1703
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 4: under the rubble in Gaza. He gave a sort of

1704
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 4: homily around Christmas where he said Christ and the rebbel

1705
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 4: a liturgy of lament. That was the title of the service.

1706
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 4: Here's another quote from him. People keep leaving because of

1707
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,799
Speaker 4: the political reality life under a very harsh Israel Israeli

1708
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 4: military occupation is difficult to bearn As a result, many

1709
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 4: young Palestinian Christians continue to leave, for example, Bethlehem, that's

1710
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 4: where one of his churches is one of the churches

1711
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,719
Speaker 4: he leaves leeds choosing to find a better and easier

1712
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 4: life elsewhere. Now in the best the sort, I'm trying

1713
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 4: to put the best faith approach to Tucker's critics here,

1714
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 4: and I don't think this was I think this is

1715
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,520
Speaker 4: probably a strange and it probably not the best.

1716
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 3: Interview for Tucker.

1717
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 4: But his critics of him just having this conversation with

1718
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:55,799
Speaker 4: this Lutheran pastor. You know, they said this particular pastor

1719
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 4: was championing Hamas because they pulled this clip of him

1720
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 4: in an address on October ninth saying, you know, one

1721
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 4: of the scenes that left an impression on my mind yesterday,

1722
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 4: and there are many scenes, is the scene of Israeli

1723
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 4: youth who were celebrating a concert in the open air

1724
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 4: just outside the borders of Gaza, and how they escaped.

1725
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 4: What a great contradiction between the besieged poor on the

1726
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:18,800
Speaker 4: one hand and the wealthy people celebrating as if there

1727
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 4: was nothing behind the wall. What is happening is an

1728
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 4: embodiment of the injustice that has befallen us as Palestinians

1729
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 4: since the Knakba until now. He also said in that address,

1730
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,080
Speaker 4: we do not justify or support the killing of civilians

1731
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 4: or the abuse of corpses or prisoners. War is always ugly,

1732
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,599
Speaker 4: but the hypocrisy of the world is something truly harmful.

1733
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 4: Today we are called first to pray, pray for the

1734
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 4: word to stop, pray for protection for the innocent. Every

1735
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 4: human being who dies is a human being created in

1736
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 4: the image of God. God does not rejoice in death,

1737
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 4: and we do not rejoice in death. But because he

1738
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 4: says things like Israeli occupation, I think he referred to

1739
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 4: the siege at one point, it's obvious that he's coming

1740
01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:00,679
Speaker 4: from what we in the United States would category as

1741
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 4: a leftist position on this particular question. It's obvious, but

1742
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 4: to say that Tucker Carlson should not interview and should

1743
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 4: not have expressed any sympathies for someone coming from that

1744
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 4: perspective who lives it every day in Bethlehem, which is

1745
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 4: a very contested territory. To say that his perspective is

1746
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 4: not worth hearing out in the United States and there's

1747
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,919
Speaker 4: no reason for somebody to express sympathy with that position,

1748
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 4: I think is actually really unfortunate and speaks to the

1749
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 4: way that we have, just even on the right, created

1750
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 4: these blocks and these bubbles that it's just you cannot

1751
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 4: even ask questions without being categorized by some people. There's

1752
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 4: some really good faith disagreement on this, and I would

1753
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 4: disagree with some of what Tucker Carlson said in that

1754
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 4: interview myself. We have to be able to talk about

1755
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 4: some of these things, though, because there are more than

1756
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 4: forty thousand Christians in Gaza.

1757
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is a very uncomfortable fact. I think

1758
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 1: for people who are just lockstep, anything Israel does is fine.

1759
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: There's also obviously religious view. I mean, the religious group

1760
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: that has the most favorable view of the net Yahoo

1761
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: government is not Jewish Americans, It's white Evangelical Christians. So

1762
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 1: Michael Tracy actually tweeted this out, and I thought this

1763
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:26,759
Speaker 1: was well said. He said, Palestinian Christians are the most

1764
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance inducing demographic for the pro Israel GOP consensus.

1765
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: Many GOP voters literally do not even know.

1766
01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 5: That they exist. That's why the pro war cheerleaders.

1767
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 1: Are reacting so angrily to Tucker simply interviewing one of them.

1768
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: With regard to this pastory right I was familiar with.

1769
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: I saw his Christmas sermon which was beautiful and went viral,

1770
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, spoke to humanity. I wouldn't

1771
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: say it was left wing. I would say it was

1772
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:54,600
Speaker 1: pro humanity. In fact, some of the messaging and it

1773
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 1: was rather conservative, talking about the commercialization of Christmas and

1774
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 1: how Christmas is not about Sannah and a tree and gifts,

1775
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: It's about the message of Jesus. I saw another sermon

1776
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 1: of his that went viral as well. So he's been

1777
01:28:08,439 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: a very powerful voice. He lives in Bethlehem under Israeli occupation,

1778
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: surrounded by settlements and having to deal with all that

1779
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: that entails and the Christian population of Bethlehem, and this

1780
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: is one of the things that was really I think

1781
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 1: contested in some of the reaction has significantly diminished, and

1782
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: the reason is quite clear. There's a lot of polling

1783
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 1: on this. Seventy eight percent of Christian residents of Bethlehem

1784
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: cited Israel's occupation as the main reason why they moved away.

1785
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: Only three percent blamed the rise of islam movements like Hamas.

1786
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 1: Because this was some of the pushback, It's like, oh well,

1787
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,879
Speaker 1: Bethlehem used to be predominantly Christian and it's not anymore.

1788
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 1: And it's because of this these Muslim fundamentalists. Well, according

1789
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: to the Christians who moved out of Bethlo, that's not

1790
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:56,880
Speaker 1: the case. They moved away because they were living under

1791
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 1: occupation and all of the indignities and humanities that that entails.

1792
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 1: This was written up by Electronic Intofada, but it was

1793
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: a you know, a nonpartisan organization that did the polling here.

1794
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 3: That's exactly yeah, yeah.

1795
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 1: Bethline surveys show support for town of Christ's birth and

1796
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,760
Speaker 1: confusion over its location. They also interviewed Americans who were

1797
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 1: pretty confused over what exactly was going on in Bethlehem,

1798
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,800
Speaker 1: but that key data about seventy eight percent saying it

1799
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 1: was Israel's occupation is the reason that they left. And

1800
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 1: in addition, you know, obviously you have had churches under

1801
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 1: assault in the Gaza Strip. In fact, you had two

1802
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:34,640
Speaker 1: Christian women, a mother and daughter, who were sniped and

1803
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 1: killed in the early days of this conflict.

1804
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 5: We covered it here. I don't know if you all

1805
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 5: recall that or not.

1806
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 4: But Idea have disputes it, which has also became an

1807
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 4: issue in this whole viral conflict Trinac.

1808
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 1: By the way, I personally believe the eyewitness eyewitnesses who

1809
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: were on the ground versus the idea of who lies

1810
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 1: all the time.

1811
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 4: But one of the oldest churches, maybe the oldest church

1812
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 4: actually in Gaza was bombed and lots of Christian died

1813
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,879
Speaker 4: there earlier in the war. Sharin Abu Akle was Christian,

1814
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 4: was Christian Al Jazeera journalist. Obviously, the IDF story changed

1815
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:08,680
Speaker 4: on her.

1816
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: Well, they admitted they killed her though, yes, ultimately they

1817
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 1: admitted and again that she was a Christian Postinian Christian, and.

1818
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:17,679
Speaker 5: The attacks American too.

1819
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: They attacked mourners at her funeral as well, if people

1820
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 1: recall but.

1821
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,960
Speaker 3: And so if we can't even talk about this, that's

1822
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 3: a little ridiculous.

1823
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even the you know, the pushback, oh this

1824
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 1: you know this pastor he said, X y Z listen.

1825
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,639
Speaker 1: I don't know every word that this man has uttered

1826
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 1: and whether I co signed them or not. But that

1827
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 1: doesn't really rebut what he's saying, what Tucker's arguing here,

1828
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: and the comments I saw that he made about October seventh,

1829
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, I tried to gingerly and very carefully make

1830
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,879
Speaker 1: some similar remarks about the festival goers.

1831
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:53,959
Speaker 5: This is not in any way.

1832
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 1: To sanction their murder, which was horrifying, which was an outrageous,

1833
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 1: indefensible atrocity. I'm not denying that, I would never deny that.

1834
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: But there was something that was worth commenting on about

1835
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 1: the fact that's so close to the Gaza strip, this

1836
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,800
Speaker 1: open air prison. You had people who were going about

1837
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: their lives as if that was completely invisible, and that

1838
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: was the overall reality of Israeli society prior to October seventh.

1839
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 5: Was this idea that.

1840
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: We can just keep these people out of sight, out

1841
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: of mind. We can go ahead with normalization with Saudi Arabia,

1842
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 1: with other Gulf Arab states. We can just pretend they

1843
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,680
Speaker 1: don't exist. And net Yahuo would say things like, you know,

1844
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:36,040
Speaker 1: I can control the height of the flame. They would

1845
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:38,559
Speaker 1: go in for these boeing of the lawn operations every

1846
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 1: now and again, but for your average Israeli they never

1847
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:43,680
Speaker 1: really had to come into contact with Palestinians.

1848
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,640
Speaker 5: So that seemed to me more what he was commenting on.

1849
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 1: But again, even if he said something about October seventh

1850
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 1: that I genuinely objected to, that does not undercut the

1851
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: argument that's being made now. Now, the other thing I

1852
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: would say is that you know, with regard to and

1853
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,679
Speaker 1: choosing this particular issue to push on and focusing only

1854
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 1: on Christians as opposed to the many, many more tens

1855
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 1: of thousands of Muslims who've been slaughtered in Gaza. You know,

1856
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 1: the most charitable interpretation is kind of the Michael Tracy

1857
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: one of like he knows this is the one that's

1858
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the most difficult for the right to deal with. But

1859
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:25,599
Speaker 1: you know, the uncharitable interpretation is like, well, you only

1860
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: care about the Christians. You don't care about all of

1861
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,719
Speaker 1: humanity that is suffering in Gaza right now, the little

1862
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 1: you know, Muslim babies who were being starved to death,

1863
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 1: et cetera. But I'll give it to Tucker. He sure

1864
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 1: knows how to stir the pot, that's for sure.

1865
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 4: Speaking of which, yeah, we can just quickly give everyone

1866
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 4: a flavor of the backlash.

1867
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 3: Put you two up on the screen.

1868
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 4: One critic of Tucker who said, quote, there is no

1869
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 4: one in America, American life who thinks less of Christians

1870
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,639
Speaker 4: than Tucker. He doesn't like Jews, but he at least

1871
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 4: doesn't think we're stupid. Even Trump's Bible selling is transparently transactional.

1872
01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 4: Tucker's entire stick relies on his belief that Christians are dullible,

1873
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 4: gullible SAPs. That's from a senior editor over at Commentary Magazine.

1874
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:11,920
Speaker 4: By the way, I mean, Tucker has very openly in

1875
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:15,240
Speaker 4: the last couple of years talked about going much deeper

1876
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 4: into his own faith personally, which I've heard him do

1877
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:21,240
Speaker 4: it at events. It's a very compelling story, and it's

1878
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 4: actually a very honest story. So I sort of take

1879
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 4: issue with that point that there's no one in American

1880
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 4: life that thinks less of Christians than Tucker Carlson.

1881
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 3: Here's a tweet from David M. Friedman. This is the

1882
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 3: next element we can put up.

1883
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 1: This was in Trump's Ambassador Israel, so particularly noteworthy that

1884
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 1: he made this commentary.

1885
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 4: Yes, he said, Tucker my friend. Before the Palestinians took

1886
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:43,640
Speaker 4: over Bethlehem pursued into the Oslo Cords of the mid

1887
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:46,880
Speaker 4: nineteen nineties, Bethlehem was under Israeli control in his population

1888
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 4: was eighty percent Christian.

1889
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:49,760
Speaker 3: It was one of the centers of the Christian world.

1890
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 4: Since Oslo and the resulting Palestinian rule, Bethlehem became eighty

1891
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 4: percent Muslim and Christians are afraid, but they don't speak

1892
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,639
Speaker 4: out against Palstini authority because you just can't survive.

1893
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,080
Speaker 3: You know, this is an interesting.

1894
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 4: Point because you talk about the Azads, you could talk

1895
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 4: about I mean, you could go into a lot from

1896
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,759
Speaker 4: that point. But it's also just this idea that because

1897
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 4: Tucker interviewed this pastor, he doesn't believe that there are

1898
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 4: also Muslim persecutions of Christians like that happens too, Like

1899
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 4: he's not saying it doesn't. And so it's just this

1900
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 4: this is what I meant earlier about the boxes and

1901
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:26,839
Speaker 4: the bubbles that like, if he asked questions, he's immediately

1902
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 4: categorized with this full suite of opinions that he may

1903
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 4: or may not hold. But in this case, it's very

1904
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 4: likely that he would never dispute that in a million years.

1905
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 4: You would never dispute that, because he talks about it frequently,

1906
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,839
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of like what's happened in Paris

1907
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 4: and different places in Europe. So I just it's very frustrating,

1908
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 4: but that's also I guess the nature of Twitter. We

1909
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 4: can put this next sweet up on the screen from

1910
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 4: Dan Crenshaw, Sager's best friend, Dan Dan Crenshaw. He took

1911
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 4: the opportunity to say, this is who Tucker is, a

1912
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:59,560
Speaker 4: click chaser. Tucker's mo is simple, defend America's enemies and

1913
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 4: attack America's allies again just immediately prescribing to him this

1914
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 4: full suite of opinions. Because and Crenshaw then mocks the

1915
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:12,639
Speaker 4: idea that you're just asking questions. I would really prefer

1916
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 4: that people did just ask questions as opposed to people

1917
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 4: just swallowing the line that Dan Crenshaw feeds them.

1918
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:21,240
Speaker 1: Look, I don't have a high opinion of Tucker Carlson,

1919
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 1: but you have to deal with like what he's actually

1920
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 1: laying out here and not just below always just chasing clicks.

1921
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:27,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's just cheap and easy.

1922
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: To go back to the Freedman comments about oh, Bethlehem

1923
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,599
Speaker 1: was under Israeli controlled its populous to eighty percent Christian.

1924
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 1: He says that resulting Palestinian rule is why Bethlehem became

1925
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: eighty percent Muslim and Christians are afraid. This goes back

1926
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:44,120
Speaker 1: to the polling that I had before. Yeah, that's just

1927
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 1: not true if you ask the people that left, that's

1928
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: not the Muslim rule was what did I say three

1929
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 1: percent said that the rise of Islamic movements like Humas

1930
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,639
Speaker 1: were the reason that they left. Seventy eight percent said

1931
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:00,599
Speaker 1: it's because of Israeli occupation. And even if you put

1932
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 1: the West Bank aside, you look at what's happening in Gaza,

1933
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 1: like Christians are being killed, their churches are being attacked.

1934
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:09,120
Speaker 5: These things are undeniable.

1935
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:11,320
Speaker 1: So you know a lot of and you hear this

1936
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,320
Speaker 1: not just with regard to Christians, but you hear this

1937
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: with regards to other minority groups within Israel outside of.

1938
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 5: The occupied territories.

1939
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, if you're a Muslim in Israel,

1940
01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:25,120
Speaker 1: you'd rather be a You have more rights there than

1941
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 1: in many other countries in the Middle East. But they

1942
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,639
Speaker 1: never want to talk about people who are living under

1943
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 1: occupation under this apartheid system. Yes, if you are a

1944
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 1: small minority group that does not threaten the demographic majority,

1945
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 1: they'll you be okay. But then if you say okay,

1946
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 1: well just extend those rights to the palestinane thrower living

1947
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:45,519
Speaker 1: in the West Bank and in Gaza.

1948
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 5: Can't do that.

1949
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 1: And you know, to your point Emily about the about

1950
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:55,640
Speaker 1: more universalist values, like I have no interest in and

1951
01:36:55,680 --> 01:37:01,360
Speaker 1: am opposed to Muslim fundamentalist governments, and I opposed to

1952
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:06,640
Speaker 1: Jewish fundamentalist governments and Christian fundamentalist governments. And you know

1953
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 1: that's I believe in the pluralism and secularism that we

1954
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,559
Speaker 1: have at our best here in America, and that is

1955
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:16,400
Speaker 1: across the board and not subject to, you know, my

1956
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: feeling about one religion or another religion.

1957
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:21,080
Speaker 4: By the way, a lot of the Chinese nationals coming

1958
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 4: over the border right now say they're Christians who are

1959
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 4: seeking asylum here because of religious persecution in China, and

1960
01:37:26,640 --> 01:37:29,680
Speaker 4: so I think it's just another great illustration of how

1961
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 4: sometimes our reflexive categorization. And you know, we have different

1962
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 4: opinions on what's happening at the border, but we so

1963
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 4: many like human stories get lost in that categorization that's

1964
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:50,600
Speaker 4: fueled by places like Twitter. It's sad, well, Christal, I

1965
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:53,120
Speaker 4: got a preview of your monologue a little bit earlier,

1966
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 4: and there's some real deep cuts in it.

1967
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:57,960
Speaker 3: I'm excited to hear it. What have you got for us?

1968
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 1: There are countless Washington who've made an entire career out

1969
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:04,479
Speaker 1: of being perpetually wrong, but in all the right ways.

1970
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,719
Speaker 1: It's amazing how you can excel in this down simply

1971
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 1: by adopting all of the DC approved wrong takes, some

1972
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:13,559
Speaker 1: by the way, with utterly disastrous consequences. One of the

1973
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: individuals who has successfully charted such a career path is

1974
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,040
Speaker 1: New York Magazines Jonathan Chate, and now he has added

1975
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: another doozy to his list of extraordinarily bad takes. Ready

1976
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 1: for this one at a time when our country is

1977
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:28,800
Speaker 1: blocking aid to people who are starving by defunding UNRA

1978
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 1: and shipping two thousand pound bombs to be dropped on

1979
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 1: babies in refugee camps. Jonathan Chate has identified the real

1980
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:39,879
Speaker 1: villain in the situation the activists who disrupt democratic elite

1981
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: political events calling for a ceasefire and an end to genocide.

1982
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: Here is that piece. The headline is the left wing

1983
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:52,200
Speaker 1: authoritarians shutting down the Democratic Party. In it, Chate invites

1984
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 1: us to imagine a world in which trump aline protesters

1985
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,719
Speaker 1: are able to disrupt and drown out a Jamie Raskin's

1986
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 1: speech on democracy the horror. He then posits that it

1987
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 1: would be obvious that such a tactic was unacceptable in principle,

1988
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: but since its pro Palestine, protesters using this method criticism

1989
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,759
Speaker 1: has been muted on a fear that to aggressively disagree

1990
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 1: with such protesters would risk permanently alienating them from the

1991
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:19,320
Speaker 1: Biden coalition. Chit writes, quote, this pattern of behavior is

1992
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: illiberal and dangerous. Drowning out speakers and disrupting exercises in politics,

1993
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:29,960
Speaker 1: regardless of its cause or the target, is wrong on principle. Now,

1994
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:33,879
Speaker 1: before I engage with the details of his willfully bankrupt arguments,

1995
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 1: let's start with the most obvious and frankly most important point.

1996
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 1: Jonathan Chait is a well paid, well connected calmnis for

1997
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: New York Magazine who can apparently write and publish pretty

1998
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: much whatever the hell he wants, And his choice right

1999
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:49,240
Speaker 1: now is to tone police the protesters desperately trying to

2000
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,960
Speaker 1: feed starving babies, block an ethnic cleansing, and stop a genocide.

2001
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 1: Imagine tutting the abolitionist for their unseemly tactics. You know,

2002
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:00,679
Speaker 1: harboring fugitive slaves is wrong on principle. You can imagine

2003
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:04,599
Speaker 1: a nineteenth century Chait opining, or imagine scolding civil rights

2004
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:09,120
Speaker 1: activists for disrupting ordinary americans lunch counter experience. Sure, I

2005
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:11,519
Speaker 1: may have some quibbles with Jim Crow, But these lefty

2006
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: Marxist are out of control.

2007
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 5: Or had he lived in Germany during.

2008
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:19,439
Speaker 1: World War II, excoriating those secretly plotting Hitler's overthrow, these

2009
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:23,160
Speaker 1: are illiberal tactics, Chait may have declared. Now, not a

2010
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:25,759
Speaker 1: single reasonable person would look back upon such a person

2011
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 1: in making these arguments and see righteousness, justice or liberalism. Instead,

2012
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 1: it is atrocity apologia. Or more to the point, if

2013
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:37,120
Speaker 1: disrupting a Joe Biden's speech is illiberal, how shall we

2014
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 1: describe secretly expediting over one hundred shipments of weapons to

2015
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 1: massacre children who are simultaneously helping to starve to death.

2016
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:46,799
Speaker 1: But Jonathan Chate is a man determined to place himself

2017
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:48,920
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of history at every chance he

2018
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 1: possibly can. During the Iraq War, you could find him

2019
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 1: in the pages of the Washington Post castigating liberals not

2020
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 1: to go along with those crazy lefties who were doubting

2021
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 1: the ironclad evidence of Saddam WMDs.

2022
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 5: He wrote, and I quote.

2023
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:06,120
Speaker 1: The notion that Bush made up the whole thing about

2024
01:41:06,120 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction has taken root on the left

2025
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: and is creeping ever closer to the liberal mainstream. My

2026
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:15,639
Speaker 1: fellow liberals who have taken up this line are once

2027
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: again making a disastrous misjudgment.

2028
01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 5: He argued in twenty.

2029
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 1: Sixteen that liberals should quote earnestly and patriotically support a

2030
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:27,040
Speaker 1: Trump nomination because Chate was so confident that Trump would

2031
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 1: lose to Hillary. Now after getting his Trump nomination, which wish,

2032
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 1: he then wrote this column, which Age, like sour Milk headlined,

2033
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:38,400
Speaker 1: Trump won't win Michigan. In general, Chate's beat is to

2034
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 1: serve as an anti left reactionary. Where we find the

2035
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,040
Speaker 1: left taking out some position on an issue, whether it

2036
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:47,759
Speaker 1: is opposing the Iraq War correctly, criticizing Obama correctly, supporting

2037
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:52,320
Speaker 1: Bernie over Hillary correctly, or opposing genocide correctly, you'll find

2038
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: Jonathan Chate working feverishly on a column explaining why these

2039
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 1: positions are an affront to decency and not the stuff

2040
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 1: of serious fellows such as himself. And so it is

2041
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 1: with this particular column let's go ahead and dive in,

2042
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 1: shall we first. Chake claims in his initial setup that

2043
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:09,320
Speaker 1: these activists, the pro Palestine activists, have been handled with

2044
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 1: kid gloves by those who should be trashing them, writing quote,

2045
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 1: because Democrats perceive some of the protesters as potential Biden voters.

2046
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:20,559
Speaker 1: They have soft peddled their criticism of their tactics. Oh really,

2047
01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 1: tell that to Nancy Pelosi, who just reiterated her suggestion

2048
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 1: that Ceesfire protesters were effectively traders doing.

2049
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 5: The bidding of Vladimir Putin.

2050
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 1: On the contrary, Pro Palestine activists have been relentlessly smeared, doxed,

2051
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:37,320
Speaker 1: and subjected to abuse since the outset of this conflict

2052
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:37,880
Speaker 1: and before.

2053
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 5: By the way, you may.

2054
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 1: Recall an entire multi day news cycle around the activities

2055
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,320
Speaker 1: of protesters on college campuses. This smear campaign was then

2056
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 1: supercharged by billionaire Bill Ackman, who sought to blacklist pro

2057
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 1: Palestine activists from ever getting hired by anyone. You might

2058
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 1: recall Rashida t Lee being officially censured by Congress, backed

2059
01:42:55,080 --> 01:42:57,800
Speaker 1: by the votes of dozens of Democrats, for retweeting a

2060
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 1: protest call for equal rights for all over to the Sea.

2061
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:04,200
Speaker 1: Similar censures for those Republicans calling for Gaza to be

2062
01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:07,640
Speaker 1: nuked or for all Palestinians to be slaughtered have not

2063
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 1: been forthcoming. You might also recall Karreean Jean Pierre standing

2064
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 1: at the White House podium and saying that sees fire

2065
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 1: calls were quote repugnant and is not even remarkable at

2066
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:20,160
Speaker 1: this point when protesters are branded anti Semitic for criticizing

2067
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 1: a genocide in the ideology that lies behind it. But

2068
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: if these relentless attacks were not enough for you, don't worry.

2069
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 1: Jonathan Chait is on the case now. He argues his

2070
01:43:29,240 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 1: qualm is not with all protesters, just with those who

2071
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 1: use what he deems to be illiberal tactics.

2072
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:34,960
Speaker 5: Quote.

2073
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm not referring to tactics like holding protest march's speeches,

2074
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:41,320
Speaker 1: social media posts, organizing uncommitted votes in the democratic primary,

2075
01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:45,200
Speaker 1: or other exercises of First Amendment rights. I'm specifically referring

2076
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 1: to a campaign to shut down speakers who oppose or

2077
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 1: even in many cases, simply decline to endorse the movement's agenda.

2078
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 1: He argues that he is simply looking to protect the

2079
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,840
Speaker 1: speech of those like the President, who is just doing

2080
01:43:56,880 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 1: his earnest best to participate in this glorious democracy of ours.

2081
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 5: First of all, with.

2082
01:44:02,120 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 1: Regard to the president, specifically, if Joe Biden would like

2083
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,200
Speaker 1: to avail himself of more opportunities to speak to the

2084
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 1: American people, I know I for one, would really welcome

2085
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 1: that perhaps he could sit for more news interviews, since

2086
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,000
Speaker 1: he has done vastly fewer than any other president in

2087
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 1: modern history. Perhaps he could agree to debate as opponents,

2088
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 1: as he refused to do in the Democratic primary and

2089
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: has as of yet not committed to do in the

2090
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 1: general election. Speaking though more broadly, of the speech rights

2091
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:28,479
Speaker 1: of Democratic Party congress people, let's compare, shall we, the

2092
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,559
Speaker 1: amount of speech permitted by the pro zionis side versus

2093
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:35,639
Speaker 1: the antidenticide side. Last week I interviewed Motaz Salem. He's

2094
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 1: a Palestinian American activist. He's seen more than one hundred

2095
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 1: of his family members killed in Gaza. I cannot even

2096
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:45,240
Speaker 1: begin to comprehend this level of loss, or what it

2097
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 1: might do to me, or what actions it might lead

2098
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: me to take. Frankly, but Motas has channeled his grief

2099
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 1: and rage righteously. He spends his days stocking the halls

2100
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:56,839
Speaker 1: of Congress, confronting members wherever he can find them, hoping

2101
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:59,599
Speaker 1: that some waste, somehow their humanity and shame will catch

2102
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: up with them as they realize what they have done.

2103
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:05,639
Speaker 1: Hoping that perhaps if they can see him as a real,

2104
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 1: full human being, they might also see those children starving

2105
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 1: to death, or those parents slaughtered seeking aid his own

2106
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,559
Speaker 1: family members, maybe they will see them as real, full

2107
01:45:15,720 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 1: human beings too. Yesterday, Motaz was part of a group

2108
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 1: in which some members were arrested for shutting down the

2109
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,040
Speaker 1: Senate cafeteria. In other words, he is engaging the sort

2110
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:28,320
Speaker 1: of confrontational tactics that Chaite deems quote unquote illiberal. Now

2111
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 1: Motaz is doing everything he can to non violently make

2112
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:34,000
Speaker 1: his speech heard, but in American politics, all of the

2113
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 1: odds are stacked up against him because not only is

2114
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: speech speech, money is also speech, and one of the

2115
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:42,320
Speaker 1: best funded political organizations in the entire country is dedicated

2116
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:45,920
Speaker 1: to making sure that Motaz's speech is never heard. That

2117
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:47,880
Speaker 1: be a pack, of course, which has pleasure to spend

2118
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars to block any candidate with even

2119
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,639
Speaker 1: the potential to criticize the Israeli government and to punish

2120
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: those who already have the long standing bipartisan commitment to

2121
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 1: unconditional Israeli governments. Is a testament to the strength of

2122
01:46:02,160 --> 01:46:06,560
Speaker 1: APEC's extremely well funded speech. What's more, Biden and the

2123
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,759
Speaker 1: Democrats will have literally billions of dollars in this election

2124
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 1: cycle to back up their de facto progenocide speech. So

2125
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:16,880
Speaker 1: while Motaz and his fellow activists, God bless them, are

2126
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:19,680
Speaker 1: undoubtedly a constant source of irritation for Joe Biden and

2127
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: Kareem Jean Pierre and Tony Blinken and many others, it's

2128
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:25,960
Speaker 1: not because it seriously impacts those people's free speech. It's

2129
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 1: an insult to all of our intelligence to pretend that

2130
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:31,120
Speaker 1: is actually the case. How can the speech of Motaz

2131
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:34,360
Speaker 1: compete against the billions of dollars in presidential bully pulpit

2132
01:46:34,479 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 1: a arrayed against it. It's an irritation because these powerful

2133
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:41,120
Speaker 1: people must be confronted on a daily basis with what

2134
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:44,800
Speaker 1: frauds they really are, how they use the language of

2135
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:48,599
Speaker 1: humanitarian values in international law right up to the moment

2136
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,280
Speaker 1: that it became uncomfortable for them, And now they have

2137
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Greenland armed and assisted one of the worst atrocities in

2138
01:46:54,120 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 1: recent history. Adding insult to injurious stupidity, Chade has a

2139
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:02,200
Speaker 1: suggestion for how these protests should properly go about making

2140
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:05,040
Speaker 1: their views heard in our great democracy. He writes, the

2141
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 1: pro Poalestinitian movement is barely even attempting democratic participation. The

2142
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,519
Speaker 1: movement could have run an anti Israel candidate against Biden,

2143
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:17,679
Speaker 1: but never bothered, no doubt, anticipating they would lose. Okay,

2144
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 1: First of all, both Cornell West and Jill Stein do

2145
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:23,320
Speaker 1: exist and are running. And in case you were wondering

2146
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:26,320
Speaker 1: about Chate's enthusiasm for allowing such candidates to participate in

2147
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:29,479
Speaker 1: our democratic process, he's also the type that will definitely

2148
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:32,840
Speaker 1: smear third party candidates as being secret Trump lovers. But

2149
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:36,120
Speaker 1: I also wonder if Jonathan Chait is aware Joe Biden

2150
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:39,280
Speaker 1: had primary opponents and they were completely shut out by

2151
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and the corporate press. How's that for illiberal?

2152
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:46,120
Speaker 1: And I am not talking about figuratively speaking here. The

2153
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:49,679
Speaker 1: DNC ordered the primary states to best benefit Joe Biden.

2154
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,600
Speaker 1: They refuse to host any debates, and as if that

2155
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:56,839
Speaker 1: wasn't enough, key state Democratic parties just blocked Biden opponents

2156
01:47:56,840 --> 01:47:59,360
Speaker 1: from being placed on the ballot and canceled their primaries

2157
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:03,040
Speaker 1: all together. There literally was not an electoral process to

2158
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 1: participate in the party effectively canceled it. As David start

2159
01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:09,400
Speaker 1: to point it out, quote, when a political party makes

2160
01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:12,800
Speaker 1: it impossible to express dissent inside a normal process, it

2161
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:15,920
Speaker 1: should probably expect that people will then try to express

2162
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:20,120
Speaker 1: descent outside the normal process. If you want activists to

2163
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:24,640
Speaker 1: use more polite tactics, maybe get outraged about these genuinely

2164
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,799
Speaker 1: illiberal and authoritarian tactics that have left so many feelings

2165
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: like their democratic free speech rights are effectively meaningless. Or

2166
01:48:32,680 --> 01:48:36,240
Speaker 1: if you're looking to be outraged, maybe just maybe get

2167
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:41,200
Speaker 1: outraged at the powerful politicians who are responsible for this annihilation,

2168
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 1: providing diplomatic cover, shipping weapons that make such destruction possible

2169
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 1: and inevitable, Those who are responsible for starving these children

2170
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,040
Speaker 1: through their inaction, and through actively defunding the primary aid

2171
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:57,920
Speaker 1: organization that could serve them. I might suggest this could

2172
01:48:57,920 --> 01:48:59,799
Speaker 1: be a more worthy use of your.

2173
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 5: Time and of ours.

2174
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: By the way, Jonathan Chate closes out his piece with

2175
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:07,439
Speaker 1: this line quote, If your movement's goal is to prevent

2176
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:10,400
Speaker 1: those who disagree from expressing themselves, and you delight in

2177
01:49:10,439 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 1: meeting out abuse and humiliation to your targets, you're showing

2178
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 1: the world you cannot be trusted with power.

2179
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:18,320
Speaker 5: Yes, let's allow.

2180
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 1: The serious people to hold power, the ones who are

2181
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:24,639
Speaker 1: serious about supporting the slaughter of more than fifteen thousand children,

2182
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:28,240
Speaker 1: As the world watches in horror. These are the types

2183
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 1: in whom Jonathan Chate places his trust. And if you

2184
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:34,320
Speaker 1: don't like it, then you can send a strongly worded letter,

2185
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 1: so long as that it is in the proper cordial

2186
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 1: tone and doesn't have a prayer of changing a goddamn thing.

2187
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:42,240
Speaker 1: And Emily, I also think this calm.

2188
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:45,040
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

2189
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:48,200
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

2190
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: All Right, guys, thank you so much for watching today. Emily,

2191
01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:53,799
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sitting in with Sager for Sager,

2192
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:55,360
Speaker 1: thanks for having Sager in spirit.

2193
01:49:55,400 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 4: Scaga was here in spirit, not in the chair, but

2194
01:49:58,560 --> 01:49:59,360
Speaker 4: he was here in spirit.

2195
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:01,720
Speaker 1: Zaga or we'll be back next week and we'll be

2196
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:03,839
Speaker 1: back with our regular scheduled program.

2197
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:05,479
Speaker 5: And so guys, enjoy the weekend. We'll see you soon.