1 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: for joining me for Session four one four of the 12 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors. In this deeply 14 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: moving episode, we're joined by Lisa Price, founder and CEO 15 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: of Carol's Daughter, for an intimate conversation about parenting, identity, 16 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: and unconditional love. Lisa opens up about her journey as 17 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: a mother to a transgender child, sharing the lessons she's learned, 18 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: the challenges she's faced, and the transformative power of showing 19 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: up with empathy and authenticity. Together, we explore how her 20 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: experiences as a parent have shaped her both personally and professionally, 21 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: and how she continues to advocate for love, acceptance, and 22 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: inclusion both at home and within her brand. Lisa's story 23 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: is one of courage, growth, and unwavering support, offering inspiration 24 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: and insight for anyone navigating their own journey of understanding 25 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: and connection. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag 27 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: TVG in session, or join us over in Patreon. For 28 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: more conversations about the podcast, you can join us at 29 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: Community not Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Well, 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today, Lisa. 31 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm honored to be here. 32 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: Well, I'm honored to chat with you. You have been 33 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: such an inspiration to so many of us. Your work 34 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: has really just opened the door and really helped so 35 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: many of us take good care of ourselves when many 36 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: people were not making products for us. So it's a 37 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: real honor to chat with you. 38 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. 39 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, if you could get started by talking to 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: me a little bit about your mental health journey, So 41 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: before becoming a parent and balancing the demands of running 42 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: a business. Did you already have experience with therapy. 43 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: I did not have experience with therapy. There was one 44 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: period and I was already a parent at that time 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: when I was in therapy with my husband. We did 46 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: couple's therapy after becoming parents. Because everything was so different, 47 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: it was kind of limited and just within that scope. 48 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: And at the time, it was something that I looked 49 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: at as there is a problem, so let's address the problem. 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 2: Not this is maintenance and this is ongoing and it's 51 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: not something that you do until there's a cure. I 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: have a completely different perspective on therapy now. I kind 53 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: of can't imagine not having it and you know, not 54 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: having that accessibility. But I did used to think of 55 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: it as there's a problem, let's address the problem, and 56 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: then when you're cured, you can stop. But that's not accurate. 57 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting. Can you say more about like 58 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: how that early experience really has helped to shape your 59 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: ideas about mental health? 60 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: That experience just having the disinterested third party to talk 61 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: to was something that was very eye opening to me, 62 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: But at the time it didn't necessarily make the impact 63 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 2: that that is something that you continue to do and 64 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: have available to you, the idea of two things existing 65 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: at the same time. It doesn't have to be either, 66 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: or it can be yes, and was something that I 67 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: didn't understand fully until about four years ago. But just 68 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: having that experience over twenty years ago at least opened 69 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: the door to it being positive, because there was this 70 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: feeling twenty you know, over twenty years ago that well, 71 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: I screwed up, So this is why we're here, not that. No, 72 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: you're here because this is normal and this is what 73 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 2: a lot of people need and it's what we should 74 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: be doing. It was almost like it was punishment for 75 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: something that I had done incorrectly, and I don't feel 76 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: that way now. 77 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: Mmmmm. 78 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 79 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: It's interesting and I'm not really surprised because I think 80 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people find themselves exploring therapy both as 81 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: a couple but also maybe just as a parent after 82 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: a child enters the relationship because the whole dynamic changes. 83 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: And I know that a lot of the work that 84 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: you do with Carol's Daughter and the Love Delivered initiative 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: really focuses on women's maternal health. So can you say 86 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: a little bit about what you've learned about the mental 87 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: health of moms and how maybe that has changed for 88 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: you over time. 89 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. When you are having a baby, there's 90 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: so much attention and conversation on what is the nursery 91 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: going to look like? What are you having? Are you 92 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: having a boy or a girl? And depending on which 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: one it is, how much can you shop? And what 94 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 2: are you going to get and what's going to be 95 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: cute and you and those are wonderful things that are 96 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 2: that are part of being a parent, and all of 97 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: that stuff is fun and if you're somebody who likes 98 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: to decorate and decorating a nursery is going to be enjoyable, 99 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: and nesting is a part of the process. But no 100 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: one talks to you, at least then when I was 101 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: becoming a parent. And my oldest is almost twenty nine, 102 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: and then the second born is twenty seven and the 103 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: youngest is eighteen. So I've been out of this market 104 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: for a long time. But no one talks to you 105 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: about how you're going to feel, what it's like to 106 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: not sleep, what it's like to have this responsibility for 107 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: this other human being, and how overwhelming that can be. 108 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: I was not a person that experienced postpartum depression, as 109 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: I can tell it doesn't seem to be that that 110 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: was my story. I don't remember feeling that way, but 111 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: I do remember feeling like I have to get this 112 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: right and I can't mess up. When why should I 113 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: feel that way. I've never done it before. Of Course 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to mess up. Of course I'm going to 115 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: do things incorrectly. But there was this feeling that I 116 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: wasn't allowed to I've got to get it right. But 117 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: how do I get it right? Who helps me get 118 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: it right? What is right? What is wrong? So many 119 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: questions that just couldn't be answered, that you just learned 120 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: as you did it. So sometimes I look back on 121 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: it and I'm amazed that my children are relatively healthy 122 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: and sound, and you know, it came out okay, considering 123 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: I had no guide book whatsoever. 124 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wonder if you could offer to new 125 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: parents some things, because what you're basically talking about is 126 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: like giving ourselves grief. There is no hand that comes 127 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: with these little people that are brought into our lives, 128 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: so there is a lot of like learning on the job. 129 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: So what would you say to maybe other parents who 130 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: maybe are embarking on this journey newly if. 131 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: You have access to professionals, whether you actually go into 132 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: therapy or not. Right, maybe just having a consultation with someone. 133 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: So like if you think of it as maybe you're 134 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: thinking about buying a house, so you have a conversation 135 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: with your accountant or with someone at the bank. You 136 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: go to see what do you qualify for? What is 137 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 2: your credit score looking like? If you were to take 138 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: out a mortgage, what would your interest rate look like? 139 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: You do research on it. You don't just go out 140 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: and buy a house, right, You do research to see 141 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: where you stand. Do research on what it's like to 142 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: become a parent. Talk to other people in your lives 143 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: who are parents, and not just about getting up at night, 144 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: not just about feeding and things like that. What is 145 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: it like when they are in school? What is it 146 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: like if you know someone whose child has a learning difficulty? 147 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: What is that like? Just so you understand what could 148 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: be your life and understand that there's so many people 149 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: on that same path and there isn't really anything that 150 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: you can do to change that. You can take your 151 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: prenatal vitamins, you can go to your doctor's visits, you 152 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 2: can do all of the things that you're supposed to do, 153 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: but you can't plan for what is going to happen, 154 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean that you forgot something or you 155 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: did something wrong. If something happens that you didn't plan for, 156 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: it's not meant to be perfect. If you think about 157 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: your own childhood, your own childhood wasn't perfect. Your mom 158 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: and dad were not perfect, your grandparents weren't perfect, but 159 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: they they got the job done. And if you or 160 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: your partner are in a situation where there was trauma 161 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: in your childhood, then definitely addressing that trauma before you 162 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: become a parent is critical because hurt people hurt people, 163 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: and you can repeat behavior unintentionally. So do the research, 164 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: read the books, listen to the podcasts, do all the 165 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: things to be as prepared as you can be. But 166 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: give yourself grace because you're not going to cover everything. 167 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that analogy to home buying because I 168 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: think both parenting and like long term partnership and marriage, 169 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: like they feel like these things that I think a 170 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: lot of us just expect to do and like expect 171 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: to do it right, when a lot of us don't 172 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: have any knowledge really of like what makes those things 173 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: work and what makes those things healthy, right, And so 174 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: it's okay, to talk to other people, to talk to 175 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: other couples, to talk to professionals, to get information to 176 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: help you with the major decision, just like a house 177 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: is a. 178 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: Major decision, right exactly. Yeah. 179 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the other times that I think 180 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people find themselves in a therapist's office 181 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: is around entrepreneurship and like business development. I wonder if 182 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: you can share a little bit about like how the 183 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: things maybe you learned in therapy you found triggling into 184 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: your business and how that helped you to make different 185 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: decisions in your business. 186 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: Well, to be completely honest, that type of therapy did 187 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: not come into my life until just about five years ago. 188 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: I started regular therapy during the pandemic. Prior to that, 189 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: it was just that situation before, which was like twenty 190 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: seven years ago. But being an entrepreneur and I guess 191 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: practicing what a therapist would call reality therapy when you're 192 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: in the reality of the situation, so reality starts to 193 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: teach you things I learned that I couldn't get it 194 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: all done. I used to be a person that made 195 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: I still make lists, but when I made lists in 196 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: the past, I made them with the intent that everything 197 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: on that list is going to get checked off on 198 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: that day. So if I make a list on Monday, 199 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 2: I can't go to bed until I've checked all the boxes. 200 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: And becoming a parent while being an entrepreneur also being 201 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: a wife, I started to have lots of things carrying 202 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: over to the next day. I couldn't get it all done, 203 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: and I was blaming myself at first, like you're just 204 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 2: you're not doing the time management right. Get a different journal, 205 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: get a calendar apps, you know, we could figure this out. 206 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: And it took a while for me to realize, no, 207 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: it's not going to happen. I'm not going to get 208 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: everything done. And the way that I managed it for 209 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: myself was there were going to be days when I 210 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: was going to be a really great wife and mother, 211 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: and days when I was going to be an excellent 212 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: founder of a business. And maybe there's going to be 213 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: a handful of those days every month where all of 214 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 2: that gets done really well simultaneously. And that's okay. It 215 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 2: doesn't have to be every single day I'm perfect. It's 216 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: just not possible. But I learned that, I guess the 217 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: harder way. I learned it through not achieving the goals 218 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: over and over again, but trying to and then finally 219 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: recognizing maybe this just isn't doable. I don't have to 220 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: give up, but I probably have the bar set a 221 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 2: bit too high. 222 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: And so your therapist helps you to kind of look 223 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: at what was all on your plate and helped you 224 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: to get more realistic maybe about. 225 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: What Well before the therapist, I was figuring it out 226 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: for myself. Now that I've been with a therapist. Absolutely, 227 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: one of the most profound things that she said to 228 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: me was when I had COVID. I had COVID in 229 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two and I had recovered from it wasn't 230 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: a particularly bad bout of it, but for about four 231 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: weeks after I would get very tired early in the day. 232 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: So I would start my day like six am, and 233 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: by eleven thirty I needed a nap, and not a 234 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: little nap, a long nap. And I said to my therapist, 235 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: I said, this is so hard to get adjusted to 236 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: because I'm not used to being this sleepy and like 237 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: leading to nap every day. You know. I thought that 238 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: I was better and that everything was okay, And she said, well, 239 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: why don't you use this as an opportunity to learn 240 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 2: what tired feels like because up until this point, the 241 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: only thing you really know is exhaustion. And it was like, 242 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: bo I was so good at overriding, I'm not tired. 243 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: I could keep going, you know that. It was being 244 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: sick that taught me, Oh, this is tired, This happens 245 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: before exhaustion. This is what it looks like. So that 246 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: was a huge thing for me. It was a huge, 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: huge discovery to understand the difference between tired and exhausted. 248 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: And how would you describe your relationship to risk and 249 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: like taking breaks? How would you say it is now. 250 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: Much better than it used to be. I had to 251 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: actually write it down in the schedule. Ten minutes of nothing, 252 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes knitting, twenty minutes read, and no matter what 253 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: was going on, I had to make myself do that. 254 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: Everything goes into my schedule. Everything, And I'm much better 255 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: at getting the cues sooner than before, and I feel 256 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: more balanced and I don't feel anxiety when I look 257 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: at Monday's lists and there's five items on Monday's list 258 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: that I never got to that spill over to Tuesday, 259 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: Wednesday and Thursday. I'm okay as long as it gets 260 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: done within a week. I'm good, got it. 261 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: Got it more from our conversation after the break. One 262 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: of the other things that you've been very publicity and 263 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: talking about is your relationship with your children, and especially 264 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: your daughter. So can you talk a little bit about, 265 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: like when she came out to you and what that 266 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: experience was like. 267 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: Okay, to be clear, I do have two daughters, So 268 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: the daughter that we're referring to is the older one, 269 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: my second born, and Andy was born male. What is 270 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 2: the correct way to say it, born and classified as male. 271 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 2: I guess that's the right way to say, categorized as male. Ever, 272 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: and was always different, just different in the way that 273 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: she moved through the world, the way that she processed 274 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 2: her humor. She was just different. And at that time, 275 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 2: the scope of language that my husband and I had, 276 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: and I guess scope of possibilities of what that meant 277 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: was maybe end is gay and just doesn't know it yet, 278 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: And we were both raised to accept. We both have 279 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 2: close family members that came out to the family. Their 280 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: lives were hidden to some extent, but not hidden with family, 281 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: so we didn't view anything as concerning outside of safety, 282 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 2: you know, because not everybody feels the same way so 283 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 2: that would be our only concern is that our child 284 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: is safe. So I remember having conversations with Endy when 285 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: she was younger that if she felt that she were gay, 286 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: that was something that she could talk about with us 287 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 2: and it would be okay, because we didn't want to 288 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: assume that they knew that it was okay, because it 289 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: isn't okay with a lot of people. And so later 290 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: when there were more things in the news, more things 291 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: on television, you know, you start learning about non binary 292 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: and trans and there's more options if you will, more 293 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 2: dialogue around the topic. I remember when they told us 294 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: that they were non binary, and I didn't struggle with 295 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: that as her identity. I struggled more with understanding, what 296 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,239 Speaker 2: is it that I'm supposed to do with that, and 297 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: how do I support that? And I got it wrong 298 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: a couple of times. But we had conversations about it, which, 299 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: you know, which was great. But non binary was harder 300 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: for me to wrap my head around because I was 301 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: accustomed to this way or this way. And I'm actually 302 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: very appreciative that our daughter's journey started with non binary 303 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: because the idea of somebody being gender fluid and not 304 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: identifying one way or the other is very very interesting 305 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 2: when you think of how society is set up with 306 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 2: certain roles and the ability to live in between is 307 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: something that I think a lot of us would benefit 308 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: from if we could do that, if we weren't relegated 309 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: to certain tasks and expectations based on our gender or 310 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: based on our color. 311 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: Can you say more about getting it wrong in some 312 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: of those conversations, because I think it's for a lot 313 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: of people that I don't want say the wrong thing. 314 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: How did you navigate like getting those wrong? 315 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 2: Well, when some of this was happening, when some of 316 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: her transition was taking place, she wasn't living at home. 317 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: She was in school and we were going through the pandemic, 318 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 2: So coming home to visit was challenging because her dad 319 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: and I were considered high risk and she would have 320 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: to fly home and so forth. So there was a 321 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: lot of communicating over the phone. And when she started 322 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: HRT and decided to transition from identifying as non binary 323 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: to being more she they I thought that there was 324 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: a transition to what you would refer to as feminine, 325 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 2: and I ordered clothes for her, and I ordered color 326 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: and flowers and ruffles, all the things, thinking oh, you know, 327 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 2: we're not non binary? Where she they? So that's feminine 328 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: to me, and her being a sweetheart and not wanting 329 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: to hurt my feelings didn't say anything, and I never 330 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: see pictures of like the outfits, and I didn't hear 331 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: anything like oh I love the shirt, I love the 332 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 2: dre you know. It was just sort of quiet. And 333 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: so I said, did I mess up with the clothes? 334 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: And that's when I found out that I did. And 335 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: I learned that her definition of feminine was very different 336 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: from mine. Her definition of feminine was more androgynous and 337 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 2: more neutral tones and not overly frilly and colorful and floral. 338 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: And it was really interesting because I didn't expect myself 339 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: to have played into such a stereotype, and I did, 340 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 2: you know, it was like somebody finding out that they're 341 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 2: having a girl and painting everything pink and lavender. I 342 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 2: fell right into the trap. And I thought that I 343 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 2: was being so modern but grateful that it didn't cause 344 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: any you know, friction between us. She completely understood what 345 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: I did, but didn't know how to explain that I 346 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: got it wrong because she didn't want to hurt my feelings. 347 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: And I just want to back up a bit, Lisa. 348 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: When you say HRT, can you tell us what you're 349 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: referring to about that? Oh? 350 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Endy started hormone replacement therapy. I believe it 351 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: was April of twenty twenty one when she decided to transition, 352 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: and she was an adult, so it was a decision 353 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: that she could make on her own. She didn't have 354 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 2: to talk to her dad and I to get permission 355 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 2: or anything like that. And the scariest part for me 356 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: with that was because the pandemic, she wasn't home and 357 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: I didn't know what transition was going to look like 358 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: for her. And I remember calling and asking what is 359 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: it going to be like? Because I felt like maybe 360 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: I needed to go visit her to say goodbye to 361 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: the person that I was used to seeing, because up 362 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: until that point, I wasn't still fully clear on what 363 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: becoming she meant to her. So was there going to 364 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: be makeup? Was there going to be jewelry? Is she 365 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: going to change her name? Change her hair? And so 366 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: the next time that I see them, are they going 367 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: to be drastically different from the person that I saw before? 368 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: And I just wanted to say goodbye. And that's when 369 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 2: she assured me of this is what I see myself 370 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: looking like. I think I'm going to look a lot 371 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: like I do now, and I'm not really into makeup. 372 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: I wear it sometimes, but not a lot. And she 373 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: always wore her hair long, so that wasn't going to 374 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: be different. So she kind of you know, like, we 375 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: talked through it, we cried, and I felt like I 376 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: didn't have to go to Atlanta and hug somebody for 377 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: the last time. And when she came home, the most 378 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: amazing thing to me was it was like seeing myself 379 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: at that age. There's a lot of similarity in the 380 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 2: way that she dresses and the way she styles her hair. 381 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 2: It's very much like what I looked like at that 382 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,239 Speaker 2: age because I wasn't really into makeup either. Mm hm. 383 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that, Lisa, And I 384 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: think what you're sharing is like this piece that I 385 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: think a lot of parents struggle with, even in their 386 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: desire to be supportive and you know, affirming and like, hey, 387 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: this is totally fine. I'm one hundred percent behind you. 388 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: Like there it's still this grief of is this person 389 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: going to still exist? 390 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: Right? Like? 391 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: Do I need to go and say goodbye to this person. 392 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: Can you say more about, like how you navigated that, 393 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: maybe both with Indie and maybe on your own and 394 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: with your husband. I don't know if you talk with 395 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: the therapist about that. What was it like navigating that 396 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: grief for you? 397 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: Honestly, the grief was very limited because I realized through 398 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: talking to her about it that I wasn't losing something. 399 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: And then when I saw her, I really didn't see 400 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: somebody different. I think it would have been different if 401 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: I had raised a child who was a football player, 402 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: really butch, short hair, did all of the masculine things, 403 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: and then suddenly wore tunics and had long hair and 404 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: spoke in a softer voice. But I was already raising 405 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: some one that was different, that didn't dress like everybody else. 406 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: That when they went to their high school prom, they 407 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: wore a man's tuxedo jacket with a skirt and Doc Martin's, 408 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: a full face of makeup, polished nails, you know, like 409 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: there was this mix of masculine and feminine. I think 410 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: there was perceived grief on my part, but having that conversation, 411 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: I realized that it wasn't necessary and it definitely didn't 412 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 2: warrant risking health to get on a plane, and then 413 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 2: when she came home. It was fine for me, it 414 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: was fine for my husband. We had to get used 415 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 2: to saying well. First we got used to saying they, they, 416 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: and them, and then we got used to saying she, 417 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: and she was always very patient with us. And then 418 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: it's also helpful that there's other children who buy into 419 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: this as well, so they remind you when you forget. 420 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: You know that. There were many times when I'd be 421 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 2: having conversation with the older sibling or the younger sibling 422 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 2: and I would say he and get corrected, Who's he? 423 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: Who's that? I don't know who you're talking about? Who 424 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: are we talking about? And then I'd say sorry, sorry, they, Sorry, 425 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: sorry she? 426 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: You know, but. 427 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: I can see where it can be difficult if you 428 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: have people in the process that don't give you grace 429 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: and aren't patient, and if you're not patient with yourself. 430 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: And we were patient with each other, and so yeah, 431 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't I think because and I'll go into my 432 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 2: past a little bit. My first marriage was to a 433 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: person who was actually gay but didn't know it and 434 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 2: didn't allow themselves to be that and viewed that as wrong, 435 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: and so they were having a fight with themselves to 436 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: not be that and were trying to be something that 437 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 2: they weren't, so they weren't living their truth, and in 438 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 2: not living their truth, they were a horrible, awful husband. 439 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: And it was a horrible, awful marriage that didn't even 440 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 2: last a full year. Living through that at the age 441 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 2: of twenty, because I was only twenty when I married 442 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: that person, taught me you can't not be true to yourself, 443 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 2: can't pretend to be something that you're not. So I 444 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: never wanted anyone that I loved to be unhappy. I 445 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: never wanted anyone that I loved to not be able 446 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: to be who they are. So if I saw that 447 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: someone might be different from everybody else, I always wanted 448 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: them to know you can be who you are around me. 449 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: Don't feel like you have to pretend. Don't introduce your 450 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: girlfriend or your boyfriend as your cousin. Tell me who 451 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: they are, It's okay. So it was more important to 452 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 2: me for Endy to live her truth than for somebody 453 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 2: else to be comfortable. 454 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: So how would you say You've been surprised? Maybe by 455 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: how your relationship with Indy has evolved throughout the transition 456 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: up until now. 457 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: The biggest surprise. Honestly is I started off being a 458 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: parent with being a parent to my eldest, my son. 459 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: Very shortly thereafter Endi came Andy and Forrest are only 460 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 2: nineteen months apart, and so then I thought I was 461 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: the mom of two sons, and then I became the 462 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: mom to a daughter. My youngest Becca is also a daughter, 463 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 2: and there were a lot of I guess mother daughter 464 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: expectations that I I didn't place them on Becca because 465 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: she was too young for me to do that. She's 466 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: only eighteen now, but I expected those things to exist 467 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: with she and I, and we do have a mother 468 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: daughter relationship, but there were just certain things that I 469 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 2: just assumed, well, this will be like it was with 470 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 2: me and my mom. And even before Endy came out, 471 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: I had that relationship with Andy and not with Becca. 472 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: So when she eventually came out, it was sort of 473 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: like you were the daughter all along. And that was 474 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: not to negate that I have a relationship with Becca 475 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: and I love Beca and I love Beca as my 476 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: youngest daughter. But if I compare Lisa and Carol and 477 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: what that relationship was like, the Endi Lisa relationship is 478 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: closest to that, and the Beca Lisa relationship is a 479 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: completely different mother daughter relationship, just a special but just 480 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: very different. And that's what was surprising, the assumption that 481 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: that would exist solely because each of us were classified 482 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: at birth as female. And it doesn't work that way. 483 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: It's the personality and it's not really tied to the 484 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: gender itself. 485 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Can you say more about like some of the uniqueness 486 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: of that relationship. So what kinds of things maybe were 487 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: you expecting to have and do with Becca that you 488 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: ended up then having with Indy. 489 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: Uh, crafting. I thought that I'd be teaching her how 490 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 2: to crochet or knit. She tried, but it wasn't really 491 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: for her. That's not her thing. And it is with 492 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: Endy and Endi embroiders and does a little bit of sewing, 493 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: which I don't do it all. So we have that 494 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 2: in common. All of us have a bit of a 495 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: thing with fragrance, but Beca and I are more into 496 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: it than Endy and I. And when it comes to cooking, 497 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 2: we all cook, but there's a different curiosity that Endy 498 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: has that Betha doesn't have. Becca wants to learn how 499 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: to do it so she can prepare it for herself 500 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 2: whenever she wants, and Endy wants to learn how to 501 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: do it because she wants to be able to carry 502 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: on to traditions, and that could just be age. One 503 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: is twenty seven and one is eighteen, so Endy thinks 504 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 2: of it as carrying on the lineage of the family, 505 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: where Becca doesn't look at it that way. But again, 506 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: she's eighteen, so that could change. 507 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: Are any of your children interested in entrepreneurship and following 508 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: in your footsteps in that way? 509 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: Becca? For sure, she looks at it now from the 510 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: perspective of, you know, doing hair, doing nails, doing lashes, 511 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: always being able to find her own money and not 512 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: being tied to a job. And Andy is artistic and 513 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: wants to be able to pursue their art, but doesn't 514 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: want to pursue their art for the sake of money, 515 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: so she will always have like another job to pay 516 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 2: the bills, but does her art. And then Forrest, the oldest. 517 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: He is not really an entrepreneur, but also not the 518 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: traditional employee either, so he's more like the freelance guy 519 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: a bit like his dad. 520 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: Got it more from our conversation after the break. So 521 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: as a mother, Lisa, how would you maybe share the 522 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: importance of talking to other mothers, other parents about the 523 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: importance of allyship to the trans community. It sounds like 524 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: you had a very long history I think of being 525 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: like an ally and being very open to people who 526 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: identify in different ways. But what kinds of things would 527 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: you say to other people who maybe are new to 528 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: this or still have some resistance. 529 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 2: It's very important that you open up your circle to 530 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 2: include people that are going through what you're going through 531 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 2: and understand it. Because the most important thing for me, 532 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: the way that I look at it, I go back 533 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: to that first marriage and how unhappy that person was, 534 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 2: how miserable and lost, and just not wanting anyone to 535 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 2: live that way, and really try to open up your 536 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 2: mind to understand that it isn't choice in the way 537 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 2: that you think that somebody can choose one way or 538 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: the other. It is who they are. And you know, 539 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: when I think about envy from diapers, we just knew 540 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 2: something was different. We didn't know what it was, and 541 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 2: like I said, because we didn't know about trans and 542 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 2: non binary and didn't have that language, then we just said, well, 543 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: maybe he's gay, But there's so much more than that. 544 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 2: You know, she's never been been tested to see if 545 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 2: she's on the spectrum, and sometimes we think that could 546 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: be a thing. Also, I think there's a lot of 547 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: us out there that are undiagnosed. I wouldn't be surprised 548 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: if I'm on the spectrum. I have a thing with 549 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: fragrance that is not natural, can be very ocd about 550 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 2: certain things. I don't like to touch paper clips, I 551 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: have a thing with textures. I'm sure that there's something, 552 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 2: but for the most part, I could function and be normal, 553 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: so you know, it doesn't go diagnosed. We have to 554 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: look at these things as not failures on our part 555 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: or something that we didn't do as parents, something that 556 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 2: we miss, something that's wrong with our children, and just 557 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: understand that it's differences and we can't all be identical, 558 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: and it's okay to be different, and it's okay to 559 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 2: allow this person that came from you to be different. 560 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: There's a piece called On Children by Khalil Jabrod that 561 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 2: is phenomenal and it was something that I heard long 562 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 2: before I became a parent. I didn't become a parent 563 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: till I was thirty three, and I read On Children 564 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 2: when I was about eighteen or nineteen, and he says, 565 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 2: your children are not your children. They are the sons 566 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 2: and daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through you, 567 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 2: but they are not from you, and though they are 568 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: with you, they belong not to you. There's more to 569 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 2: it but those words. I'm so grateful that they came 570 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 2: into my life before I was a parent, and it's 571 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,479 Speaker 2: how I tried to operate as a parent. They come 572 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: through me, but they are not from me, and I'm 573 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 2: here to aid their development, not completely orchestrated. 574 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: Which I think is an important distinction. Right, Even as 575 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: you talked earlier about like these expectations and ideas about 576 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: that we have about who our children will be and 577 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: what our relationship will look a lot it is based 578 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: on this idea that like we can predetermine some of 579 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: that and we cannot. 580 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, we can't. We can't. 581 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, knowing what you know now, what kinds of 582 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: things would you share for other parents about having important 583 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: conversations even when kids are young about identity. It sounds 584 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: like you and your husband, you know, talk with her 585 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: very early on, like hey, if this is your reality, 586 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: like we're totally fine. What kinds of things would you 587 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: say for other parents to keep in mind about identity conversations. 588 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 2: It's important to be mindful of your language. You know, 589 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 2: children will grab toys for so many different reasons. A 590 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: boy doesn't grab a truck because they were a boy. 591 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 2: They just grab a truck because maybe nobody else bought 592 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 2: anything other than trucks. So maybe if you have a daughter, 593 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: maybe you buy her a truck and not just buy 594 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 2: her dolls or vice versa, just to see what happens 595 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 2: and not take something away because well that's too girly. 596 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 2: You can't really indoctrinate them in that way. They're going 597 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 2: to go for what they want. And Dy growing up, 598 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 2: did have more trucks around her than she did dolls, 599 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 2: but she gravitated to legos and building and drawing and coloring, 600 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: which was different from four. Her older brother Forrest wasn't 601 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: interested in that, and then beca coming into the mix 602 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: with these two older brothers. She did everything. She liked 603 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 2: her dolls. But Becca liked her dolls because she was 604 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: in charge. They had to sit and listen to her, 605 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: and she gave them lessons and did school and she 606 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 2: was the teacher. So it was her way of like 607 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: being a boss and being assertive. The dolls have to 608 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 2: listen to me and becha. Mostly liked to play with 609 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 2: food and pretend to cook, and she loved to go shopping. 610 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 2: She loved cash register, she loved calculators. I think you 611 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 2: let them play and you see where they go and 612 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 2: what they're drawn to, and just let it happen and 613 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 2: not try to guide them because this is right and 614 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 2: this is wrong, or this is what girls do and 615 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 2: this is what boys do. And sometimes that can be 616 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 2: hard for people. And I think if you think about 617 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 2: it from any place in your life where you were judged, 618 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 2: So if you are a black or brown person who's 619 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 2: experienced racism and know what it's like to be excluded 620 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: from things because you're black or brown, think of that 621 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 2: and how limiting that was on you and all the 622 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 2: things that you didn't do because you weren't allowed to 623 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: It wasn't open to you. Nobody told you that black 624 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 2: people did that too. Women who don't get to do 625 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 2: certain things because they're women and men are encouraged to 626 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 2: do them. You know, now when we look at sports, 627 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 2: we see so many more young women being athletes because 628 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 2: it's been okay to do it. The WNBA has been 629 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,479 Speaker 2: around long enough that there are two generations of young 630 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 2: girls seeing that it's okay to be a ballplayer and 631 00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,720 Speaker 2: going for it when we're a normal size. There's things 632 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 2: that fat people can't do, and there's things that only 633 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 2: skinny people can do. So when you think of those 634 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 2: barriers that maybe got put in your way, try not 635 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 2: to put those barriers in your children's way because you 636 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 2: think boys do this and girls do that. Just let 637 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 2: them be people. 638 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: Were there other resources that you found helpful that you 639 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: might want to offer to others, So you've already mentioned 640 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: khalil Ja Brown's other other podcasts or magazines or documentaries 641 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: or things that you've read that would be good for people. 642 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 2: I think a lot of what my husband and I 643 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 2: learned we learned being the parents of our eldest child, 644 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 2: who is dyslexic and has add being D's parents, even 645 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 2: though Envy wasn't diagnosed with something specific, was always different 646 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 2: and we always handled her a certain way because she 647 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 2: was different. And then being in therapy with our youngest 648 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: with Becca, who has ADHD, there's a lot of things 649 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 2: that we've learned about parenting and parenting differently, especially with 650 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 2: the younger one, which the other two benefited from because 651 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 2: when she was born, they were nine and ten, so 652 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 2: by the time she was in therapy, they were in 653 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 2: high school and getting ready to leave middle school. So 654 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 2: learning how to have a conversation with the child and 655 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 2: not just issue edicts because I was raised on why 656 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 2: do I have to do this? Because I said, so, 657 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 2: that's how I was raised, and I did the same thing, 658 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: and that worked with the first two, didn't work so 659 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 2: well with the third. So by the time we had 660 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 2: our third child, like, parenting had to get a little 661 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: bit different. So specific books. I wish I could say, oh, 662 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 2: this was great and that was great, but I don't 663 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 2: have anything that comes to mind. Well, no one thing 664 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,360 Speaker 2: that does come to mind. And it's gonna sound really wild. 665 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 2: But Goldie Hawn, who a lot of people don't know 666 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 2: because they're not as old as I am, but google her. 667 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 2: She's Kate Hudson's mom. She was dyslexic and likely had 668 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 2: other undiagnosed learning difficulties, and her autobiography is super interesting, 669 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 2: or was to me being the parent of someone who 670 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 2: was dyslexic, it was really interesting hearing her tell what 671 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 2: it was like to grow up with her brain not 672 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,720 Speaker 2: working like everybody else's and then there was a series 673 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 2: that I believe was on TLC about a trans child 674 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 2: named Jazz, and I can't think of what the name 675 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 2: of the show was. But my husband, of all people, 676 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 2: because he does not watch shows like that, ended up 677 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 2: watching that show and found it really interesting watching Jazz 678 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 2: initially live as female and then eventually transitioned during the show. 679 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 2: But watching that was our first exposure to, oh, there's 680 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 2: a lot of kids that are going through this, and 681 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: this is what it can look like, and this is 682 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 2: what parents deal with and it was really interesting for us. 683 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for offering those So Lisa, as 684 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: someone who has been in business and has been responsible 685 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: for managing teams, I wonder if there's anything you can 686 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: share for other entrepreneurs or business owners about like how 687 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: to support someone on your team who may be transitioning. 688 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: Is there anything that comes to mind for you? 689 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 2: There one thing that I think goes a long way, 690 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 2: and some companies do this on your emails. You identify 691 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 2: who you are so you know it'll say Lisa M. Price, 692 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 2: founder Carol's daughter. She her. A lot of us may 693 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 2: think I don't have to declare my pronouns because it's 694 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 2: obvious I'm not trans, so why do I have to 695 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 2: identify who I am? And the reason that you have 696 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 2: to do that is because you have that luxury of 697 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 2: everybody knows who you are and what you are. So 698 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,399 Speaker 2: you declaring it and making it clear just in case 699 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 2: there's any ambiguity, allows for the person who might be 700 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 2: afraid to declare who they are the freedom to say it. 701 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 2: Because you saying it, you've made it okay. So that 702 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 2: was something that was a part of the corporate structure 703 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 2: where my company sits, so that didn't have to be 704 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 2: an initiative that was discussed. But as a small business person, 705 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 2: you are your corporate structure, so that can definitely be 706 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 2: a first step no matter what is to declare add 707 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 2: your chosen pronouns to your email sign off so it's 708 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,320 Speaker 2: not just your title, and it makes people see, oh, 709 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 2: it's okay for me to be who I am. If 710 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 2: you have the ability to make your bathrooms gender neutral, 711 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 2: if you're building an office, I think a lot of 712 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 2: people now when they build office space, they don't build 713 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 2: male and female restrooms. They just build restrooms and make 714 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 2: each stall private so that no matter what's going on, 715 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 2: you're in there. By yourself. So that's something that you 716 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 2: can do now if you inherit a space that's already 717 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 2: set up a certain way. You know, the only thing 718 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 2: that you can do is offer, you know, accommodations to 719 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 2: someone if you become aware that they need them. But 720 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 2: it's having a conversation. It's asking that person permission to 721 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 2: have the conversation. Do I have permission to ask you questions? 722 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 2: There are things that I would like to understand about 723 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 2: how I can better support you all of that. 724 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: Thank you for then. I think that's a great place 725 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,279 Speaker 1: for people to start. Our producers did look up the 726 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: name of that show. The name of the show was 727 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: called I Am Jazz. 728 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, that was it. 729 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Lisa, this has been so wonderful. I really 730 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: enjoyed talking with you. Let us know where we can 731 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: stay connected with you. What is your website as well 732 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,240 Speaker 1: as any social media channels you'd like to share. 733 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 2: The website for Carol's Daughter is Carol's Daughter dot com. 734 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 2: We also have a store on Amazon and Carol's Daughter 735 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 2: is the Instagram handle for the brand, as well as 736 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 2: the TikTok and the Facebook. I am Lesaprise is who 737 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 2: I am on Instagram. And on TikTok perfect. 738 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,759 Speaker 1: We'll be sure to include those in the show notes. 739 00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,239 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Lisa. 740 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,799 Speaker 2: Thank you. This was great. I loved having this conversation. 741 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 2: Thank you. 742 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Lisa was able to join us for 743 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,840 Speaker 1: this conversation. Her openness and love remind us of the 744 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: strength and vulnerability and the power of affirming every child's truth. 745 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,799 Speaker 1: We're very grateful for her voice, her journey in the 746 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: space she's helping create for acceptance and growth. To learn 747 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: more about Lisa and Carrol's daughter, be sure to visit 748 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash 749 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: session four one four, and don't forget to text this 750 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: episode to two of your girls right now and tell 751 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,840 Speaker 1: them to check it out. Did you know that you 752 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: can leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions 753 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: for the podcast. If you have a movie or a 754 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: book you'd like us to review, or even have thoughts 755 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 1: around people you'd like to hear on the podcast, drop 756 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: us a voice message at memo dot fm slash Therapy 757 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. 758 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 1: You just might f on the podcast if you're looking 759 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,880 Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area. Visit our therapist directory 760 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. This episode 761 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: was produced by Alice Ellis, Indichubu and Tyree Rush. Editing 762 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for 763 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing 764 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,959 Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. 765 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 2: What's