1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and welcome to Stuff I've Never 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: told you production of I Heart Radios How Stuff works. 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: And we're back with another edition of feminist Movie Friday. 4 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: And this one is kind of a departure because we've 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: done superhero movies and horror. Yeah, so we're trying to 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: mix it up. Yeah. I thought this would be a 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: little more lighthearted, yeah, as opposed to the Revenge episodes 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: that we just completed. And funnily enough, even though it 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: is more lighthearted, I would definitely agree. We have to 10 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: put a trigger awarding in here, right for suicide and 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: very brief mention of sexual assault. Yeah, you are pretty 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: surprised at the very beginning. Oh yeah, I thought I 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: tricked you. I did, I because I've never seen this 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: until Samantha and I watched it together about a week ago, right, 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: and I had no idea what to expect. Samantha, what 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: you said something like it's about middle aged women having 17 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: or something. It is definitely one of those yeah up 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: becoming middle aged women movies. Right, So, so for it 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: to start in the way that it does with a suicide, right, 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: was a little surprising to story. True. True, And we'll 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: get more into the plot in the second UM. But 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: for basics, this is a nine comedy comedy es um. 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: I did. I definitely did. And it turned out to 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: be a pretty good choice of movie because of the 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: question of revenge versus justice that comes up quite a bit, 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: and we talked about that in our part one on 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: women and revenge. It was very, very gloriously nineties. I'll 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: say that that was a fun little flashback. You love 29 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the nineties. Do you remember the first time you saw this? Oh? Yeah, 30 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: so I do not, because it's been a while from 31 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: when it's I can't remember who are what, but I 32 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: just remember seeing it. Um. But I do remember that 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: I watched this as well as I'll give their own 34 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: UM in preparation to the two sixteen election. Yeah, yeah, 35 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: and trying to get all really kind of inspired and 36 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, not too deep into it, like dark, but 37 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: kind of inspiration level of Okay, we can do this. Yes, 38 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: And funnily enough, Vonna Trump is in it. Yeah, we 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: will discuss that more later. More you reat nice, more 40 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: cameos than I did. And I was like, oh my gosh, 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: she was like and I had I was like, was 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: that really was? It was? So let's go ahead and 43 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: get into it because it is a fantastic movie. To me, 44 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: your friend Marissa, great listener. She agrees, yes, I love 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: her taste. UM. So for plot, if you have not 46 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: seen this movie, or maybe it's been a while, which 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: for a lot of people probably has, so there. This 48 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: is a nine movie directed by Hugh Wilson with a 49 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: screenplay by Robert Harlan, based on a nineteen book of 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: the same name by Olivia Goldsmith. It stars Goldie Han, 51 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Bette Midler, and Diane Keaton. Has three recently reunited friends 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: who decided to help each other get revenge or justice 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: they say, um against their ex husbands who ditched them 54 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: for younger women played by Sarah Jesca Parker, which, by 55 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: the way, this was made after Hocus Pocus, we did 56 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: ak that up, Marcia gay Harden who was phenomenal, and 57 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Berkley you know her from Saved by the Bell 58 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: fame um. And then on the periphery we have Maggie 59 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: Smith as an n y C socialite Dame Maggie Smith 60 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: if you want to be nasty, and a cameo appearance 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: by Gloria's Dynham which I missed until you pointed this 62 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: out to me Annie and I wanted Trump, which she 63 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: is kind of the all encompassing first wife, like she's 64 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: what they call her, the original fresh wive. Also, just 65 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: to throw it out there, it had a bit of 66 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: the women the movie as inspiration. Yeah, and if you're 67 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: like me, and maybe you didn't get the title at first, 68 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: it because they were first wives. I don't know together 69 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: you didn't know this. I don't know why. I thought 70 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: that was obvious, but yes, it is exactly why. But 71 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: I did not put it together, so I just thought 72 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: i'd put it out there. Despite mixed reviews, this movie 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: became a box office hit, earning almost two hundred million 74 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: dollars at the box office, and it definitely got a 75 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: cult following, especially among middle aged women inspired a musical 76 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: and a television show, and a movie like this is 77 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: still unfortunately pretty rare a main cast of middle aged 78 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: women about their friendship, even though yes, they do spend 79 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about men um but yeah, 80 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 1: we don't really see that too much, right. The movie 81 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: starts off in nine with four friends, Annie played by Keaton, 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: Aliz played by Goldie Hawn, Brenda played by Bette Midler, 83 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and Cynthia, who's played by Stalker Channing, who he told 84 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: me was in Greece. Okay, um, I was paying attention. 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: And they have just graduated college and are filled with 86 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: excitement about their futures. They share at champagne toast and 87 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Cynthia presents her friends with pearl necklaces. Yeah, I know, 88 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: I said, Well, I didn't get that from many of 89 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: my friends. That's okay, we don't eat pearl necklaces. But 90 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: they get these pearl necklaces, and they take a picture 91 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: together and Cynthia makes them all promise that they'll always 92 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: be there for each other. And then it cuts to 93 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: present day and Cynthia is tearfully gazing at the picture, 94 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: clearly implying that they have drifted apart. They have not, 95 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: in fact, been there for each other. She's living in 96 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: a super fancy apartment. Through series of newspaper headlines, it's 97 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: revealed that her ex husband, a man Cynthia helped climb 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: the social latter married a much younger woman, I believe, 99 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: like two days before, two days after they got divorces, 100 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: the luckier what yeh wow? Um. So Cynthia gives her 101 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: maid her set of pearls and three letters to mail 102 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: to her once close friends. Then she puts on this 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: floor length fur coat. There's so much for in this movie. 104 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: There's a lot of the nineties. I guess um. She 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: gets a drink and a cigarette and then she jumps 106 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: off the balcony to her death. There's also a lot 107 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: of cigarette smoking. There is very nineties. So at the funeral, 108 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: the three friends who are shocked reunite, feeling guilty about 109 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: not being there for their friend. They go out for 110 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: lunch afterwards, and after a few drinks, they all admit 111 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: their lives aren't what they had hoped for, so they 112 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: literally just go one. It starts at the day beginning 113 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: when they're really nice to each other and just like 114 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: everything is perfect, everything's per of and then cut to 115 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: like four drinks later, everything spills. Annie and her husband 116 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: are separated in therapy, which, by the way she puts 117 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: those positive spends everything's okay um. And then actress Elie's 118 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: husband left her for a younger actress and she is 119 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: now an alcoholic reliant on plastic surgery. And I think 120 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: it is really kind of funny because at that point 121 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: there was this whole underlying joke about her going in 122 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: for plastic surgery. Right, so she was making it even bigger, 123 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: very self aware Um, and Brenda's husband divorced her for 124 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: a young woman, leaving her in a financial larch with 125 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: her son. Right. The three women each have disastrous encounters 126 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: with her exes after this this lunch. Annie spends the 127 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: night with her ex husband, believing that they're going to 128 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: get back together, only to find out that her ex's 129 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: dating her therapist played by Marcia Gayharden, and he asked 130 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: her instead of getting back together, that he wants a divorce. 131 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: Alice discovers that her ex is asking for alimony and 132 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: half of their marital assets, claiming she would never have 133 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: been successful without him. Brenda has an embarrassing encounter with 134 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: her ex when she confronts him at a department store, 135 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: and his new wife, Sarah Jessica Parker, an address that 136 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: Brenda had mocked earlier, shows up and makes fun of 137 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: her her looks and her clothes and her size. Right. Um. 138 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: And then there's Cynthia's letter which arrives at you see 139 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: at the very beginning, the maid sends it all for her, 140 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: which inspires them to form the First Wives Club. As 141 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: in the First wife left for the younger, second third 142 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: whatever wife to get revenge on their exes and they recoup. 143 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: They also involve Any's daughter who is a lesbian but 144 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: then but it is fun because she does get involved 145 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: to help her, as well as the Social Light new 146 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: or Social Light name Maggie Smith, Brenda's mafia connected uncle 147 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: and Brenda's boss who is the interior decorator who I 148 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: knew from the Perfect Strangers from the eighties sitcom I 149 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: Know what I Know and that was the original T 150 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: g I Friday lineup. They uncover that bndess X had 151 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: committed text fraud UM taking a lot of stolen merchandise 152 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: sold it off as his own than any plans to 153 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: restart her advertising company by buying out her ex's clients 154 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: to finance. This at least liquidates her marital assets. Um 155 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: with their exes right to where they want them, the 156 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: club decides that they want to be better than their exes. 157 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: They want to take the higher road. They want justice, 158 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: not revenge, so they coerced their ex husbands into funding 159 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: their nonprofit, the Cynthia Swan Griffin Crisis Center for Women, 160 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: primarily aimed at assisting abused women. The club throws this 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: opening party at the Center, and we we find out 162 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: Eliza is now sober and she took the play that 163 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: her friends had encouraged her to accept the role. Um 164 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: Brenda reconciles with her ex. Annie bought out her ex 165 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: and then turns him down at this party when he 166 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: attend is to reconcile with her. Gloria's sign him is there, 167 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: as is Avonna Trump, who says the famous line don't 168 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: get mad, get everything. When the party ends, the women 169 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: all dressed in white singing Leslie Gore's you Don't Own Me. Yeah, 170 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts because that's every time we 171 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: talk about First Wives Club, that's the song of that 172 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: hits in my head. And Marissa actually commented in our 173 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: stories thing, do you are you guys seeing this song? 174 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: At least she said that, Um, but yeah, it's also 175 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: good to know in this whole kind of thing, you 176 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: do have different tropes. And we're gonna talk a lot 177 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: about it. But there's definitely gas lighting when Annie's husband 178 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: A breaks up with her essentially but then trying to 179 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: also get back with her and then blaming her for 180 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: his failures. But it's really interesting and I we're gonna 181 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: talk a little more about it, but it's definitely like, huh, 182 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: I see what you did there, We see it, We 183 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: see it. Oh, I was so happy when she was 184 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: like nah, not getting back with you. It's also nice 185 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: to see her get finally standing up because of the crew, 186 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: she's the one that kind of just as a peacemaker 187 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: and quiet and submissive. Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna 188 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: talk about that um in a little bit as well. 189 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: Kind of the I feel like in a lot of 190 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: these movies, the characters represent this one kind of magnified trait, right, um. 191 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, this song you know, only has been stuck 192 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: in my head since we've done it, and I thought 193 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: it was from Suicide Squad and you kept singing it 194 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: from this like, oh, it makes sense that's existed for 195 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: a long time. Yes, yes, yes, because obviously he's been 196 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: around for a while. But they do it as a trio. 197 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: I guess they did it as a quartet because they 198 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: had Cynthia with her with them, because it was they 199 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: performed it in college, they did, and so this was 200 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: them kind of reclaiming it at the end. And every 201 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: time we talk about it, I also sing it. Yes, 202 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: you do, and I may have sing throughout the movie 203 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: as we were watching it, Yes you did so. Yeah. 204 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: This song was recorded in nineteen sixty three and was 205 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: adopted as a part of the Second Way feminist movement. 206 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: It has been covered many a time, as you can 207 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: tell because any I was from Two Side Squad, Well 208 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: that's where I heard it from. It has not it 209 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: hasn't come out yet, but it was on the ads, 210 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: all right, the trailers. And we do wanna look into 211 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: each of these characters a bit more in depth, but 212 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break for 213 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. 214 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: So yes, I feel like in a lot of movies 215 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: like these are even books, um, the characters are distilled 216 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: into one basic thing, the pretty one, the goofy one, 217 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: the nice one, and that always leads to a BuzzFeed 218 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: quiz like which one are you? Um. Through these main characters, 219 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: you can see different stereotypes about women personified, right um. 220 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: And I think it also each one of them that 221 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: they play is kind of a stereotype of them as 222 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: as individuals that they are known for. Beth Midler is 223 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: known for being sarcastic and sassy in real life. Diane Keaton. 224 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if she's ever been like just nice nice, 225 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: but she's definitely the quieter, seemingly submissive one. And then 226 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: you have Goldie Han who has always been but kind 227 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: of treated as a dumb blonde type of thing. Um. 228 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: And then again I think often applies with women who 229 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: are getting back at people. The Witches of Eastwick, which 230 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: we talked about. I forgot about that movie for a 231 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: while and I had to go back and read the 232 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: plot because it's been so long since I've watched it. 233 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: The craft even hocus pocused and oddly applied to which 234 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: is maybe I don't know that just happened to be 235 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: my theme. I guess. Um it hasn't changed even in TV. 236 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: If you think about like Sex in the City and 237 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: speaking of Sarah Jessica Parker and that kind of trope 238 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: as well, there's four of them. They all represent very 239 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: specific types of women. And then um, you also have 240 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: the new show Doll Face, which I've talked about for 241 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: on Hulu. Um, and I think that has that same 242 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: persona as well. You've got the down to eart sassy 243 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: one versus the you know, over the type stereotypical Asian woman. 244 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: That's the whole thing in itself. I think that's another 245 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: episode that we should get into, is why do we 246 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: have to represent when women so monotone one dimensionally. Yeah. 247 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: I can talk about that for a long time. It 248 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: is interesting because you really can't see this everywhere. And 249 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: one thing to get really nerdy for a second, when 250 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: you're creating a character in Dungeons and Dragons, one thing 251 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: they say is pick a treat, and that's your thing. 252 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: And that's gonna make it easy for you to know 253 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: what this character would do, So it can be something 254 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: as small as I'm afraid of blood or I get 255 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: not just really easily. It's just funny. I feel like 256 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: writers do this a lot, where we pick, Okay, you're this, 257 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 1: it's gonna be easy to write you then. But okay, 258 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: let's look at our cast, starting with Anne Keaton's Annie, 259 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: who provides kind of sporadic voiceover for the film. Um. Yeah, 260 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: and I would say she's the nice one. She's what 261 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: I would call the middle child, the peacekeeper. Yeah, yeah, 262 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: you said that. I would I was most closely really 263 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: into her, Like if I took the test, this is 264 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: the one I would get Yeah, I definitely did not 265 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: think as I said, I would definitely be bet Middler. 266 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: Well I would be Brenda said, not Jewish. But you know, 267 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: as there you go. This is the update the reboot. Um, 268 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: She's Annie a shy, She's plagued by low self esteem. 269 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: She doesn't really speak up for herself, she doesn't really 270 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: express her emotions. And Cynthia's letter to her, she said 271 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: she most admired Annie's strength and present day Annie's daughter, 272 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: yes is a lesbian. Did she like this is the 273 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: first thing you learned about her? Um anyway calls her 274 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: a doormat, pointing out that she lets her ex walk 275 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: all over her. That's why her daughter was so ready 276 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: to help her with revenge. By the way, is her 277 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: father yea, she just could not stand her own father exactly. Meanwhile, Um, 278 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: Annie's mom keeps pushing for her to get back with 279 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: her ex and on the surface and is ring up beeat. 280 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: I was actually confused at first because I was like, 281 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: she's so happy, but what she's saying is so sad. 282 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: But she just yeah, exactly, but she plays it so well. 283 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I was like, is she really happy with this situation? Um? 284 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, she is in therapy, and that's one of 285 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the first signs you get that all might not be well, 286 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: where her therapist urges her to get angry and hit 287 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: her with like what looks like a toy bat filled 288 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: with air or something. It's a star film the kids 289 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: played with. It's kind of like the nerve version of 290 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: a bat, but it's just a large yellow and blue Yeah, okay, 291 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: the safe colors. Yes, um. And at first Annie can't 292 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: do it like she does it, but she's sort of laughing. 293 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: But then with the continued shring of her therapist, she 294 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: snaps and starts whacking at her with all this pent 295 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: up anger. That's foreshadowing too, it is. I never guessed that. 296 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: Um yeah, she's always apologizing and taking the blame that 297 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I did notice really quickly that she's constantly saying I'm sorry. 298 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: Um with the three front when they when three friends 299 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: reconnect over lunch, she maintains everything with her relationship is perfect, 300 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: even when she reveals they are separated and Brenda and 301 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: allies are like the start laughing. That is like, by 302 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: the way, would be kind of not that that's not 303 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: the nice reaction, but it could definitely sound like that's cute. Yeah, 304 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: they Brenda and Elies have a more like oh we've 305 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: seen it, you know, kind of cynical view. Um. She 306 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: believes her husband is going to get back together with her. 307 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: She's super excited about it when she gets the phone 308 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: call Um, but yeah, he instead after they have sex, 309 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: asked for a divorce. And then her therapist shows up 310 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: and it's revealed that she is, yes, the new girlfriend. Um, 311 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: the same her this therapist. By the way, I've been 312 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: telling her she needed to work on herself esteem, like 313 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: m m. So Annie flips out. Her voice gets super 314 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: right pitched. She storms out, crying. Throughout the film, we 315 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: see her struggling with fear and expressing herself when they 316 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: have to escape an apartment via window washing scaffolding. Yes, 317 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: that that happens in this movie. She's the one that's terrified, 318 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: although I do think that is fair. When the group 319 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: drunkenly sings randition if you Don't Own Me the first 320 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: time in the movie, Um, she is tentative. She stops 321 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: out of shyness when the other two attempt to let 322 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: her sing by herself, but she does grow into herself 323 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: with the help of the women in her life. When 324 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: she becomes a majority shareholder and her husband's her ex 325 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: husband's company. She does it confidently. When her husband tries 326 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: to reconcile with her, she tells of himself. At the end, 327 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: her mom says, you know, you need absolutely nothing, And 328 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: during the final music number, she sings it joyously and confidently, right, 329 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: And I think that was part of the thing. She 330 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to be seen, and so when they would 331 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: let her beat seen, she would freak out because it 332 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: was so embarrassing for her. She wanted to be the 333 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: perfect whatever, so she can't seem perfectly. She didn't want 334 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: to sing out loud. Um. I think it's interesting because 335 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: it is she's one of these characters that does have 336 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: the mother who is continually pressuring her to stay married. 337 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: It didn't matter what was happening, it's just you should 338 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: be together with this man. I think that she mentioned 339 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: about her being older not being able to find someone 340 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: else she does yeah, which is absolutely kind of a 341 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: stereotype of the mother. Okay, so let's hop into Goldie Han, 342 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: whom I love. She plays a struggling actress Alice, who 343 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: was you know, very very famous for a long while, 344 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and then she comes at an age where she realizes, Oh, 345 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm in between, which I know. We've had many discussions 346 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: on you're too old to play does, but are too 347 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: young to play this? So what do we do with you? 348 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: You're just the pasture? So she she once was an 349 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: Oscar winning actress, but has now been relegated to be 350 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: movies due to her unprofitable age quote unquote, now getting 351 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: roles for the mother. And when they talk about the mother, 352 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: they say the words grotesque. But that's how he describes 353 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: the character Um as opposed to the the young hot daughter, 354 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: which YAH know that doesn't happen anymore. I guess I 355 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I've seen many actresses now 356 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: who don't age. It's phenomenal. I'm like, how do you 357 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: look like this? Angela Bassett she is one of those 358 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: has never aged. I can't figure her out. She says 359 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: in the movie there are only three ages for women 360 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, Babe, District Attorney, and driving Miss Daisy. And 361 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: right now, I want to be young, she says, science 362 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: fiction young UM. And the first time we see President 363 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: day Last, she's getting classic surgery for what is implied 364 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: to be one of numerous previous times Um and her 365 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: plastic surgeant says something like, if you get any more 366 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: plastic charritory, you're going to be able to blink your lips, 367 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: which is funny. Um. She's also an alcoholic and a smoker, 368 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: in part to deal with the fact her ex left 369 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: her for a younger actress, again played by Elizabeth Berkeley. 370 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: Her husband is asking for alimony and half of their assets, 371 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: to Alsee's fury, which rightly so. Elise is insecure, van 372 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: and consistently drunk. We do get to see her have 373 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: phone with taking her husband's stuff, or her stuff, as 374 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 1: she would say, selling for one dollar to any and 375 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: giving him half or all in the end because he poudered. 376 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: There's a scene after the First Wives Club is formed 377 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: where she was working out on a stair climber and 378 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: Brenda asks her, doesn't it bother you that you're never 379 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: getting anywhere? You climb and you climb and you climb 380 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: and never reach the top, so something like that, and 381 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: of course she says, no, I love it. I get 382 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: this is when I can think, which I think, yeah, 383 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us think that way, because 384 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: then when I've been when I used to run, that's 385 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: how I felt. But by the end of the movie, 386 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: she accepted a role in a play which is supposed 387 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: to be really phenomenal, aging gracefully I think, and she 388 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: starts dating her coworker and gets sober. Yeah. And I 389 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: did want to include that thing about the stair climber 390 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: because it does remind me I might have been reading 391 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: way too much into it. But like of putting in 392 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: all of this work and just constantly keeping yourself busy, 393 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: but you're not going anywhere, nothing is changing, um, which 394 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting. And then yeah, we have Bette 395 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: Midler as Brenda, the goofy one, always ready with a 396 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: wise crack. She is financially strapped after she helped her 397 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: husband succeed and then he left her for a younger woman, 398 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker. That is a recurring theme in all 399 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: of this too, is that, um, these women helped their 400 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: husbands get to where they are and then once they 401 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: couldn't I guess you could say, in a very bad 402 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: light use them anymore, then they left them, right, I mean, 403 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: essentially they do say this is their midlife crisis. Brenda 404 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: is the one that talks about him going through the 405 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: midlife crisis with an airing in a car and all 406 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: of that. That's right, that's right, And I guess part 407 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: of that is Sarah Jessica Parker's character um Brenda definitely 408 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: has the best one liners in the film in my opinion. 409 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: Goodbye Love Hello Pop Darts was a favorite. Yes, she's resentful, 410 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: beauty standard. She complains about anorexia and Bulie macwomen um 411 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: able to wear trendy fashions, UM and clothes. She is 412 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: the most in your face, She says it like she 413 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: means it, and perhaps has the least growth of any 414 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: of them. At the end, she does end up reconciling 415 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: with her ex after he is contrived. Not that that 416 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: doesn't mean she hadn't didn't have any growth, but I 417 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: feel like she's sort of I'm less sure of what 418 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: her arc was. It's compared to the other the other two. Um. 419 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: She is the butt of a lot of jokes, whether 420 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: it's her frumpy clothes or her weight. At one point 421 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: in the movie at least shouts at her, yeah, what 422 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: did you ever win a piating contest best digestion? Um 423 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: And although admittedly Alize's plastic surgery is also a source 424 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: of a lot of mockery, so it's kind of like 425 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: we're making fun of women for doing looking beautiful or 426 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: being the dumb blonde as you say, and then not 427 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: doing those things and just kind of at the end, 428 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that Brenda feels like she's accomplished 429 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: is that she has lost some weight. Yeah, yeah, she 430 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: does say that, which again, yeah, I'm with you. It 431 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's a big change as everyone else. 432 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: But I think one of her stories were the fact 433 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: that they weren't villainizing men. They were trying not to 434 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: villainize men. So Morty or someone she cared for and 435 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: still loved and just felt like he turned the wrong way, 436 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: So that is I think that's kind of part of 437 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: the reasoning behind less gross for her um Again, so 438 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: we do want to touch on Stockard Channing's Cynthia for 439 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: a second, who kills herself three days after her husband 440 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: left her and married a younger woman once again had 441 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: their a cleer who was in it very briefly. These 442 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: were definitely like mainstay nineties women, by the way. Before 443 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: she dies, she jumps to her death a Swan dive 444 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: flash Swan song since her last name was Swan, and 445 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: she puts on all these trappings of her life, like 446 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: she's wrapping herself in all the superficial stuff that ended 447 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: up being meaningless um, including the fact she's wearing hills, 448 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, in her pajamas and her for and her drinking. 449 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: Her character represents a lot the danger of defining yourself 450 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: and your partner, getting your self esteemed to the relationship. 451 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: In this case, the husband she helped build up um. 452 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: Apparently her fortune actually helped his business, as they do 453 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: say that, and how we teach women that their main 454 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: goal is to get married again, very nineties values, that 455 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: we were slowly flipping the idea at that point, and 456 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: how women's values in their looks as well as their age, 457 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: and that without these things their values go down. And 458 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: I think a lot of this also, I talked about 459 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: how opportunities for women diminished as we age. I'm starting 460 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: to get a little anxious about that, and the difficulty 461 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: of starting over and the importance of female friendships and 462 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: support and agree. I think that's part of the reason 463 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: I do love this film so much. It does rely 464 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: more on the friendships, and for me, I think we've 465 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: talked about this. You and I both talked about this. 466 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: We're not relationship people. That's never been a thing for me. 467 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: I've never needed to have a relationship, didn't have that 468 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: many boyfriends. My relationships did not ever last too long. 469 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: But my friendships have been consistent. Um And I'm I've 470 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: been fortunate to have really good friends in my life, 471 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: and I know that if I need someone, they'll still 472 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: be there. Even at almost forty, where we're coming up 473 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: on middle age. Me, I'm coming up on middle age. 474 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: Everybody else is younger. I can still see them on 475 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: a weekly basis. I can still hang out with them 476 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: and consistently call them. As where my mother she lost 477 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: contact with all of her friends because it was a 478 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: different I'm an age and as if I was concentrating 479 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: on family, no one had the access like the internets. 480 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: Um And I think that's a really different But I 481 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: do love that even in the nineties, they saw it 482 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: as an important conversation to be had about things all 483 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: apart helptentimes, friendships outlast most of these things obviously. Yeah, 484 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: um And I'm glad to see stories like this because 485 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: we don't see that many of female friendships where that's 486 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: like the first and foremost thing of the story. And 487 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: for me, my my friendships with women in my life 488 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: have been so valuable, like more than anything, and I'm 489 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: so so lucky that I have that. UM and the 490 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: support is hard to to overstate. And speaking of supporting women, 491 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: we did want to talk about some of the main 492 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: shops and this movie, including that one. But first we're 493 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: gonna pause for one more quick break for word from 494 00:27:53,560 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsored. And we 495 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: did wanna get into some themes of this movie, some tropes, 496 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: and perhaps the biggest one being women supporting women. UM 497 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: and the power in that, because that, I mean, that's 498 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: the whole thing, is that their relationships shall apart, their 499 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: lives fall apart, but they have the supportive group of 500 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: friends who not only are they trying to get revenge 501 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: and get justice, but like in the case of Als, 502 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: where they are like, no, you should take this play, 503 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: they're trying to help each other make healthier and more 504 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: successful life decisions. UM. And I love seeing how Annie's 505 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: daughter supports her and ultimately her mom does too, that 506 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: there's three generations of women supporting each other and all 507 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: the stuff that, Yeah, these women are able to accomplish 508 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: with each other's help, and they for the most part 509 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: are building each other up and giving advice, believing in 510 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: each other and helping each other succeed. So that is 511 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: the idea behind this, that they can't accomplish their glow 512 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: up or groove back, you know, as we would throw 513 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: it back without the help of each other, which is 514 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: only highlighted by the fact that their downfall, their loss 515 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: of self, was partially due to the loss of each other. 516 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: I think that's really important to talk about, not necessarily 517 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: that it hinges on other people, but the fact that 518 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: we do have to have support and others to push us, 519 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's we do grow apart. 520 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the reality. What the friends I had 521 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: twenty years ago I may not have now, but the 522 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: friends I've had, you know, in this past, have remained 523 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: friends because we were able to grow up together or 524 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: change together. And even though things can separate you a 525 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of the times, when you find those people, that 526 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: core group of people, your people, it is just an 527 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: amazing thing. The things that you can do, these things 528 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: that you can get support from just being year or 529 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: was you know, being able to do this is everything 530 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: to do with the type of the people I know 531 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: are supporting me or have pushed me to say, yeah, 532 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: these are important things to talk about, let's do this. 533 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: So I mean, it's a very significant part of who 534 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: we are. And again we would have to say this 535 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: has to do a lot with privilege. So this was 536 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: very wide perspective, obviously white rich perspective, because we don't 537 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: have an actress who's going to sell millions of dollars 538 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: of worth of things to us for a dollar would 539 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: be lovely. I think of us their fortune. But at 540 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: the same time, the main idea of it's a nice 541 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: feel of being able to see a group of friends 542 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: who have been there for each other before come back 543 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: together now yeah, and the argument they have. I also 544 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: think it was really enlightening because there is a layer 545 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: of oh, yeah, we've been trained to tear down other 546 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: women because but the things they're picking out on each 547 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 1: other are largely looks based. But like, underneath it all, 548 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: there still is a layer of I don't know, caring 549 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: because Brenda was worried about um Aliza's drinking, and they 550 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: definitely said things that were not supportive at all, but 551 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: there there was this sort of at the core of 552 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: it that they still did care and speaking of women 553 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: tearing down their women. We got to talk about the 554 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: other woman, the trip of that, yeah, because we see 555 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: that play out big in this movie. And and yeah, 556 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: we were talking about this after the movie ended, and 557 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: how much blame we could place on these other women. 558 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: So in the case of Sarah Jessica Parker's Shelley, she 559 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: is a gold digger. She's a stereotypical gold digger. She's 560 00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: manipulative but unintelligent, the beautiful dits many many jokes play 561 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: out at her expense, um as the club, along with 562 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: the sociolite Vanilla Goldberg, which is Maggie Smith trigger multiple times, right, 563 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: And I think for me, I keep going back to 564 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: the fact that it's so hocus pocus like her same 565 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: character almost Yeah, yeah, I kind of is. But then 566 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: you also have Marcia gay Harden's Dr Leslie Rosen, Annie's 567 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: and her exes therapists who claims to be helping with 568 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: Annie's self esteem, which to me is definitely the idea 569 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: of gas lighting, not necessarily from Marcia, not necessarily from 570 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: the therapist perspective, maybe because we don't know the conversations 571 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: other than get your self esteem, you need to be 572 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: stronger type of perspective, but her husband once again continually saying, 573 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: you always do this to me. You always make me 574 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: feel this way. You always did it. Uh, and you're 575 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: like nobody does not, which is yeah, token definitely idea 576 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: of gas lighting the beginnings of and her taking that 577 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: blame and her believing that blame and believing that up 578 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: until she exits after finding out the therapist is the 579 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: new woman and starts screaming her non apologies. That was 580 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: a great thing. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I cared for 581 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: you and I did. Everything is imported. I'm so sorry, 582 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: Like she just inside you gotta love her doing that. 583 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: I love her, I love her, I love to have 584 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: the therapist is like, you've got to let her express herself. 585 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: And then we have the cameo by Elizabeth Berkeley, a 586 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: young naive actress, and you can really see the power 587 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: dynamic between her and Elsa's ex husband, who is offering 588 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: her all of these lead roles. Um she's actually a 589 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: fan of the Leason is that her play at the end, 590 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: So she really does seem just like a super young 591 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: naive and maybe flattered that an older man is interested 592 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: in her who is also going to help her excel 593 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: in her career and believing that she is. And maybe 594 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: she is, but he is telling her she's good at 595 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: all these things and if you continue to be these things, 596 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'll help your care rear, whatever what not. 597 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: But she comes in very naively, not even understanding, it seems, 598 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: the relationship between Alice and the ex husband, Like she 599 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: just kind of, oh my god, I'm so glad you're here. 600 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't even occur to her that police might not 601 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: be super happy to meet her exactly. And I feel 602 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: like that's definitely a trope. At the same time, at 603 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: least it's not versus woman versus woman, and that that 604 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: that didn't make me feel a little better because we 605 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: were not talking about them, Like, I hate that whole 606 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: idea that when there's a downfalling relationship that it is 607 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: the other woman's fault instead of seeing, hey, that dude, 608 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: yeah Coleman denominator in this whole scenario. Um, and again, 609 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: she is supposed to be sixteen, so you can talk 610 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: about the how in the world is she has sixteen 611 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: year old as living with this man and no one notices. 612 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: That's whole other conversation it is. I did really appreciate 613 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,959 Speaker 1: that she showed up at the playing Yeah. I thought 614 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: that was a nice touch. Yeah, and she seemed to 615 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: be really into it. Um, there is still the sense 616 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: that they're playing. These women are playing the game that 617 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: the only avenue from women to succeed is by using 618 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: their youth and their beauty to attract a man. It's 619 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: not great that they play into it and tear each 620 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: other down. And one day they'll be competing with younger, 621 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: prettier women too, they'll be like second wives. But at 622 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: the same time, it's kind of hard to blame them. 623 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: And I'm not condoning it at all, but the patriarchal 624 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: system we live in, it really does hit us against 625 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: each other. I guess I can see. I can see 626 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: why it happens. I mean, that's the whole idea of 627 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: behind anti feminists in general. I don't think tars sue. Yeah. True. Um. Also, 628 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: as the audience, I'd argue were meant to tear down 629 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: these women at least a little bit. We're poking fun 630 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: at Annie's weakness, Adelie's plastic surgery, at Brenda's rumpiness. Yeah. Absolutely, 631 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be the obvious of why they were left. Again, 632 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: something we see in society, we have to find a 633 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: reason to blame. What did you do wrong? Why he 634 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: leave you? And don't get me wrong, there's definitely two 635 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: that tangoes. It definitely takes two to tango. Try that 636 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: one again, did it um? And there's a whole other 637 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: perspective that we met not see, we don't see. But 638 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: then there's also that whole keep yourself together, keep like 639 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: all of these things, make yourself presentable, be desirable, whatever. 640 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: And I have seen more and more of people flipping 641 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: that switch two men or the other partner. And I've 642 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: seen people you say that to them as well, And 643 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: I think that's unnecessary in just in general, it's traumatic 644 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: in itself to try to blame whatever. It's something maybe 645 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: you can't help or something that you don't like about 646 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: yourself either, it's not something that you want as a 647 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: part of the reason that they left. So right, I 648 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: think it's the kind of transitions into our next thing 649 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about, which is having it all right, 650 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: which is a huge theme of the nineties for a 651 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 1: lot of women. Another thing, Yeah, because the whole idea 652 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: of having it all is it's impossible. It doesn't it's 653 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: not gonna happen. Um. They start out so hopeful for 654 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: their future, having just graduated college in the sixties, which 655 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a big fee. But again, these 656 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: were very privileged women, once again white women, so we're 657 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: able to get their education pretty easily, it seemed, with 658 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: their pearls and champagne to celebrate. But then we see 659 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: them as adults, and they obviously do not have it 660 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: all um. As a whole scenario of the young, naive 661 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: idea of what it is to dream for the end 662 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 1: all um to have perfect family lives with the princess 663 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: like marriage. Obviously, you see that dwindling away, and then 664 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: you do see a lot about divorce raised in general, 665 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: and the falling apart of the American family, whether it's 666 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: set up by lies that's a that's a movie or 667 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: something no, no, but it should be it should be 668 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: let's go, let's go right when now um, or whether 669 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: it's just this level of expectations that you're not meeting 670 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: in front of other people, so kind of like, whether 671 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: it's obviously about mom but I don't want to be, 672 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: but I'm supposed to be, or I am while I 673 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: am a career woman, but I don't want to, you know, 674 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: any of those perspectives that they're supposed to have it 675 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: all and be all running that perfect home, being the 676 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: perfect wife, having a perfect career. Yeah nah, yeah, And 677 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: it's it's a double edged sword too, because you're gonna 678 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: get blamed for being at work too much or not enough, 679 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: for being at home too much or not enough. Um. Yeah. 680 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: So they were all successful, they all got married to 681 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: some had kids, and they helped their husbands succeed, only 682 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: for these husbands to go and go for a younger 683 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: woman once they had been established with the help of 684 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: their first wives. One tries to keep everyone happy at 685 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: the expense of herself. One tries to hold onto youth 686 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: at the expense of herself. One lashes out at everyone 687 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: at the expense of women. Everywhere, they all define themselves wives. 688 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: So when that was gone, after everything, they've given up 689 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: the best years of their lives. As is said in 690 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: the movie, more than once, they didn't know what to 691 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: do with themselves. They lacked purpose. Their happiness had always 692 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: been second. To see them reclaim themselves, to take what's 693 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: theirs and to find happiness and success in themselves and 694 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: their friendships is really rewarding. They can't have it all, 695 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: but with the help of each other, they get closer 696 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: to having what they truly want. Is that jagline. I mean, 697 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: I'm here to write, I can write things, and we 698 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: did want to talk about revenge versus justice as well, 699 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: because it's interesting how at the end they turn their 700 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: desire for revenge outward, they make it into something to 701 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: help other people. They keep emphasizing this is not revenge, 702 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: this is justice, and their decision to start a nonprofit 703 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: is a way of turning their desire for revenge into 704 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: justice and honoring their friend that started this whole thing 705 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: that brought them back together, which is especially interesting in 706 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: light of what we talked about in our Women and 707 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: Revenge said about how women are more likely to channel 708 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: their desire for revenge into altruistic purposes, right, And I 709 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: think there is a lot to be said when it 710 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: comes to the female perspective of revenge and justice. Revenge 711 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: is than all out, maybe balls out, hell and brimstone, 712 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: while justices were storing the balance. I think if we 713 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: look more deeply into it, for a feminist take, is 714 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: trying to get balanced, as we would say, that's what 715 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: we're storing implies like you're giving it back to what 716 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: it was. But I think if we know that it 717 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: isn't there, there's a tip of the scale that changes 718 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: the perspective. And if we look at it for the 719 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: first time, it's not that they're getting balance. It's just 720 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to find balance and put justice into place 721 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: because they never had that balance to begin with, right, 722 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,919 Speaker 1: So it's a whole different level. Yeah, it was always 723 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: an unequal situation. Um. And to close out here, because 724 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: we've haund a surprising amount to say about first Wives, 725 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: but maybe not, I don't know. We did want to 726 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: touch on some real world stuff, including a Vonna Trump, 727 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: because after we watched this, we were curious about her 728 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: being in the movie and what she said, and we 729 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: looked it up because I do remember the whole trope 730 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: about the fact that she was the original first wive 731 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: and that it was a huge tabloid extravaganza when the 732 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: divorce went down and what was happening and and the 733 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: new mistress, Marlon Maple's coming in, and yeah, a small 734 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: bit of history because honestly, again I forgot about the 735 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,399 Speaker 1: whole mass. I just remember it being a big deal. 736 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: I was really young at the point you weren't born yet, 737 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: probably a deposition relating to the divorce. She accused Donald 738 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: Trump of rape and pulling out handfuls of her hair, 739 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: and in a book written by Harry hurt Um Lost Tycoon, 740 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: The Mini Lives of Donald J. Trump, Ivanna Trump confirmed 741 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: that she had felt violated quote unquote. However, in a 742 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: statement provided by Donald J. Trump and his lawyers, Ivanna 743 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: Trump stated that she did use the word rape, but 744 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: that she did not want her words to be interpreted 745 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: in a literal or criminal sense, which this isn't very 746 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: comforting in any way. And the divorce was great in 747 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety on the grounds of cruel and inhumane treatment 748 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: by Mr Trump, so that was actually written into the 749 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: reasoning and for divorce. The condition of the settlement was 750 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't talk about their marriage without his permission, 751 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: so not to say too much. But this has obviously 752 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of indications of all the accusations we see today. 753 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: It's been happening, it's been said, it's been said since 754 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety in official court documents. And I think it 755 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,439 Speaker 1: was important to remember, unfortunately, that that this happened, because 756 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: I completely did not realize that statement was even written 757 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: out as a part of the reason for their divorce. 758 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: It was kind of funny at that time because everybody 759 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: was making jokes about the fact that Donald was leaving 760 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: her for a younger woman, Marlin Maples, and all of 761 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 1: these things came out about how he cheated and what 762 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: he wanted and feeling like a failure because I think 763 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: this was the beginning of him losing everything and so 764 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 1: again kind of having a breakdown and going for the 765 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: younger woman. That's exactly that trope. But then how serious 766 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: the situation was at the time, and everybody was able 767 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: to disregard it. Kind of forgot about that history until 768 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: I believe it was brought up again during the elections, 769 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: But it was a small blip that everybody ignored. Yeah, 770 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,760 Speaker 1: and then another person we want to talk about very briefly, 771 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: it's Harvy Wise Stude, just because it's really hard not 772 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: to see some disturbing parallels between him in the situation 773 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: with the young actress in the movie. So it is 774 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: odd to watch that movie now with our eyes are 775 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: modernized and knowing what happens um and it was treated 776 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: at so lightly at that point time. Just the both 777 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: of those situations were treated so lightly and then today 778 00:43:53,400 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah it's bad. Yeah. Um, and then 779 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: Gloria steinem was I think Gloria steinhum me, come on. 780 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 1: That's That's about what we have to say on First 781 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: Wives Club. If you haven't seen it, it's on Netflix. Um, 782 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: and we would love to hear from you what should 783 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: be our next movie? For finmness movie Friday we're doing next, Yeah, 784 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: get excited for that. I'm excited over that one. Um. 785 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: But after that, what should we do? We definitely are 786 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: definitely gonna come back for Heathers, Yes, and I think 787 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do one over, which is in together, like 788 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: all together with the Craft, which is a focus, possibly 789 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: because I feel like there's going to be a lot 790 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: of inter weaving True and the Witches. There's a lot 791 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: of movies we can talk about in there. Yeah. I 792 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: guess i'd see that as such a because there's yeah, 793 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: they're all women. Yes, interestingly, I love it too. But 794 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: in the meantime, you can email your suggestions to you 795 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: as at our email at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at 796 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can find us on 797 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,240 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff 798 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super 799 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff 800 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. The production of iHeart Radios How 801 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts from IHAR Radio, visit the 802 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 803 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: your favorite shows