1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news in the search 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: for a killer, a killer that slaughtered four Idahoo University students, 3 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: we believe in their sleep in the last hours. Police 4 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: have issued a BOLO be on the lookout for a 5 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: twenty eleven twenty thirteen Honday I Lantra. Why, I'm Nancy Grace. 6 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 7 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and sirius XM twenty eleven. First 8 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at k 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: R E M. Moscow PD is saying today they're now 10 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: looking for a white twenty eleven to twenty thirteen Honda 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: Elantra Police say tips and leads led investigators to look 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: at additional information about the car being in the immediate 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: area of King Street where the murders happened during the 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: early morning hours of November thirteenth. Again, it's a white 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: twenty eleven to twenty thirteen Hondae Elantra Police say the 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: license plate is not known right now, but still this 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: is a significant step in the investigation as investigators have 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: yet to release any information about a suspect or suspects, 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: and this is potentially the first significant piece of evidence 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: they've released publicly so far in their effort to solve 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: this case. Very interesting. This is the first real piece 22 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: of evidence that the Moscow police are releasing. This must 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: be significant, although we don't know what's going on behind 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: the scenes. In the last hours, cops announcing they are 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: on the hunt for a twenty eleven to thirteen Hunda 26 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: Elantra white in color tag plates unknown with me and 27 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: I'll start PANELM. But first I want to go straight 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: out to Stephanie Pogonis joining us. Fox News Digital crime 29 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: reporter Stephanie, When did this happen and what exactly did 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: they say? Okay, So, police have said that they have 31 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,639 Speaker 1: received tips and leads that have led them to believe 32 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: they're looking for this white punday a lentress to dan Now. 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: This vehicle. They believe it's from the twenty thirteen model. 34 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: What they say that is interesting is that they have 35 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: seen this vehicle in the immediate area of the King 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: Street crime scene. This came what they say is in 37 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: the early morning hours of November thirteenth. This is around 38 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: the time that the victims are believed to have been killed. 39 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Officials previously told the public and the media that the 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: victims are believed to have been stabbed between three am 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: and four am. You know, this is one of the many, 42 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: many reasons that one of the first things you try 43 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: to do, besides after you secure the crime scene, is 44 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: try to develop a timeline. As the timeline is wrong, 45 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: almost everything you do after that is wrong. It takes 46 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: the whole thing. For instance, and they got the timeline wrong. 47 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: They're looking for this white punday maybe completely irrelevant. Joining 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: me again and All Star panel, I'm gonna go first 49 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: to Jonathan T. Gillian, former FBI special Asian, former Navy seal, 50 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: author of a hit book, Sheep No More, The Art 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: of Awareness and Attack Survival on Amazon. Jonathan, thank you 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: for being with us. A lot of buzzwords I'm sure 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: jumped out and not only me, but you and my 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: expert in forensics Cheryl McCollum, also with me Karin Stark 55 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: and David Leroy. But interesting, the immediate area of the 56 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: murder house, the crime scene at the time they believe 57 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the murders happened. Now, the only thing that I see 58 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: there that could have a little leeway is an immediate area. 59 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: Was it right in front of the house, was it 60 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: a block away, but I want to hear your analysis. Well, 61 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: the good thing is, now that they have a vehicle 62 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: that they're concentrating on, they can also look at the 63 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: cell towers that are around there, and they may not 64 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: be able to identify specifically who was in that car, 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: but they can kind of pick out when a cell 66 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: phone moved to another tower and where eventually those cell 67 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: phones went, if in fact they had one in that car. 68 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: And I would think that somebody who has escalated at 69 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: this point of killing, like everybody else, they probably do 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: have a cell phone, and if they left it in 71 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: the car, then it would stay there and then left 72 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: with them. That would actually be almost a better circumstance 73 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: than if the killer lived nearby and left their cell 74 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: phone at home and then cell phone had never moved. 75 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: So if they can combine that car with any type 76 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: of movement or cell phones around there, and then video footage, 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: I think these are the types of things that technologies 78 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: that investigators can kind of key in on and start 79 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: to triangulate the movement of certain people or certain phone 80 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: or the vehicle to where they can start narrowing who 81 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: this car belongs to. I think it's very important for 82 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: them to incorporate all these different things. And I think 83 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: you saw an example of this type of tracking with 84 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: the abduction and murder that just happened in Texas a 85 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: week ago of the seven year old girl. So now 86 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: there at this point, if it is in fact somebody 87 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: associated with the killing, like in Texas, they will be 88 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: able to use the digital evidence to quickly start kind 89 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: of honing in on potential subject. And it was really interesting, 90 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: Jonathan Gilliam that you bring up the case of Athena Strand. 91 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: She is a seven year old little girl that was 92 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: at home with her stepmother and she and the stepmom 93 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: had a little fuss, so the stepmom believes she's going 94 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: back to her room, when in fact she went outside, 95 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: a FedEx driver came along and got her ended up 96 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: killing her. Could you explain again for those listening on 97 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: day one, I suggested a data dump, which is a 98 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: real pain in the areen, very exhaustive search of who 99 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: based on a cell tower, the cell phones in that 100 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: area at that time, that interval of hours, say between 101 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: two fifty and four thirty am, and it can be 102 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: done really right down to the block. So if you 103 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: could explain that and how you would integrate that along 104 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: with movement of the cell phone and I dating the car. 105 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: You mentioned video, but Cheryl McCollum and Stephanie begonis I 106 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, But I don't think they've 107 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: got any ring doorbell or any surmillance video far. I 108 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: know there were not many cameras around, and it's been 109 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: a question lately of if there are cameras now were 110 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: they installed after these attacks happened. We've spoken to neighbors, 111 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: some of whom had said that they decided to install 112 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: them after the fact. Were you going to say something 113 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: Cheryl on that, Yeah, I was just going to say, 114 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: I believe at some point they do have that car 115 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: on video, and I think that's how they're tracking the 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: movements of that car. I don't know that they've tricked 117 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: the movements of the car yet or that they have 118 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: it on video. I mean, I hope you're right, jump 119 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: in John. So also with those ring cameras, before I 120 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: say about the sill Terris, Theo's ring cameras. Most people, 121 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm guilty of this myself. You get a ring camera 122 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: and then after the initial trial period goes away, people 123 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: don't want to pay to have stuff recorded, so they 124 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: just have the cameras set to alert, and so that's 125 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: why you don't get a lot of recordings off of 126 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: these cameras. Also, you know, I worked was part of 127 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight investigation of a guy who 128 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: wrote a bicycle all over New York and drove up 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: to at three in the morning coincidentally, and drove up 130 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: to the recruitment center in Times Square, put a pipe 131 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: bomb down, drove off and blew up the front of 132 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: the recruitment depot. We've never caught that guy, and that's 133 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: the most videotape place in the world. So videos won't 134 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: always show you what you want to see. However, if 135 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: there are videos and they do show the movement of 136 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: the car or of a phone, it won't be the car, 137 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: but it will be of a phone. On these cell 138 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: towers at that time, then you might be able to 139 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: maarrow down. And your phones are constantly whether you're using 140 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: them or not, they are constantly reaching out, so it 141 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: kills our battery. They're communicating with cell powers, and sometimes 142 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: you can stay in the same place and they'll be 143 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: pushed to multiple cell powers. But that also can help 144 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: because they can kind of triangulate where the phone may be. 145 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: But as you start to move, especially in a place 146 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: like Idaho where it's not as populated, you'll have a 147 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of cell powers in one place, and then 148 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: as you get more remote, you're going to have less 149 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: and less cell powers, so you'll be dumped off to 150 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: the next one, and then down the road you'll be 151 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: dumped off to the next one. So that actually becomes 152 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: not more specific, but you can tell that they're moving 153 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: in a particular direction. So with the data down which 154 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: you just described, I think that's a perfect example that 155 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: they could give these families who were seemed to be 156 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: very impatient with this, and I understand why. But this 157 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: is not like the movies. You know, when we have 158 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: computer screens that they don't make noises and things, and 159 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: there's not colors all over offses, and evidence doesn't just 160 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: get processed immediately. Going through these cell powers information. It 161 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: is labor intensive. You got to get a subpoena to 162 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: go get the stuff, and then people have to physically 163 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: go through this stuff and figure it out. Yes, it'll 164 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: take a long time, which is what I said at 165 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: the very beginning time stories with Nancy grace for those 166 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: of you just tuning in in the last hours. Moscow 167 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: police haven't nounced they are on the search for a 168 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: white Hyundai a Lentre that is s o P standard 169 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: operating procedure and finding a vehicle connected to a crime 170 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: has long been a way of cracking cases. Listen to this. 171 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: He knew what he was doing, He knew what he 172 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: was doing exactly, but thank goodness, he made a lot 173 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: of mistakes parking in the driveway having somebody see him. 174 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: A neighbor it took this photo out of her window 175 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: of the suspect's red corner driveway, thinking it might have 176 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: been stolen and dumped here. It was ten thirty in 177 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: the morning last Friday, minutes before the Winnox home started burning. 178 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: The neighbor, who asked not to be named, told me 179 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: that she saw twenty eight year old Austin Lee Edwards, 180 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: dressed in a black trench coat and face mask, walking 181 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: with the fifteen year old who lives in the house. 182 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: They were getting into the red car. She was trying 183 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: to mount the words to me, but nothing came out. 184 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: The neighbor said, I looked down and saw she was barefoot. 185 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: She was crying a little bit, she didn't try to 186 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: make a run for it. One person spotting a red 187 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: vehicle seemingly out of place and seeing a guy in 188 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: a trench coach leading a barefoot girl to the car. 189 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: That one car identification saved a triple homicide and the 190 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: kidnap of a fifteen year old girl taken from her home, 191 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: her family murdered so the p could rape the girl. 192 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: She was found safely, and he was apprehended and then 193 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: shot dead when he opened fire on police. Another well 194 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: known example is that of Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City bomber. 195 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: Listened to Jim Norman case agent, we found out that 196 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper had made an inquiry on 197 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: Tim McVeigh within about ninety minutes of the bombing. Hangar 198 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: had been heading south toward Oklahoma City based on a 199 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: Highway Patrol dispatcher call for all available troopers to head 200 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: to Oklahoma City to assist. He had gotten to discontinue. 201 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: He was about sixty two miles north of Oklahoma City 202 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: and he turned around in the median on Interstate thirty 203 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: five and as he's starting to head back north, he's 204 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: passed by this yellow Mercury Marquee that's missing its real 205 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: license plate, and so he pulls that car over and 206 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: the driver gets out of the car and Hanger has 207 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: to order him to stay by the door of his car. 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: You know. Cheryl McCollum joining me, And I'm going to 209 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: Cheryl because not only is she's the founder and director 210 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute. Don't get me wrong, 211 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: I wh case is not cold, but her job is 212 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: to sit through forensics and come up with ways to 213 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: solve cases. Cheryl, I could listen to investigators talk about 214 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: how they saw murder cases with the identification of a car, 215 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: and I've done it myself time and time again in court. 216 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely I can listen to that case. Investigator mc McVeigh 217 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: was one of the worst villains that have ever been 218 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: put in the jail. He needs me under the jail. 219 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: And he was caught because he was missing a little 220 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: piece of a light on his tail light correct ted. 221 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: Bundy was stopped. Oh you're right, Wait, tell the story, Cheryl. 222 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: Don't just throw out a name. Tell me about how 223 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: he was stopped. I love that. I love that. Go ahead, 224 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: but again, what it gives us, it gives us a 225 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: name it's not the Ted Bundy story. And I know 226 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: that I'm leading up to the story that time. It's 227 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: good that he got stopped running a sign because that 228 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: gave us a name, It gave us a vehical description, 229 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: It gave us an address of where he was in 230 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: his hunt for victims. So what I would do if 231 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: this was my case right now, I've already pulled it up. Nancy. 232 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: They have weather camera in Moscow, Idaho. Oh you are 233 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: so smart. You're absolutely right all that snow. Yes, So 234 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: Jonathan gilliam is right, there could be video, video footage. 235 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: You go ahead. Well, that's what I was saying. They're 236 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: gonna have video of this car, and they're gonna be 237 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: able to track it's, you know, direction of travel and everything. 238 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: Because I could look right now at D Street, I 239 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: could see the whole intersects in the gas station. I'm 240 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: looking at Plaus River Drive, Lime Street, Uniontown, I can 241 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: see every bit of it, Sharad Road. These are all public. 242 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: All they've got to say. You know another thing about that, Cheryl, 243 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: is that this was the murders occurred on King Road, right. 244 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: It's a couple of blocks off campus. And I have 245 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: been dumbfounded by the fact they're seemingly no campus security 246 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: cameras around that area. Okay, Nancy, Dave le Roy here, 247 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: let me give you a little content. Good please chop in, 248 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: hold on, Let me introduce you Dave le Roy, high 249 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Idaho, former attorney general, former lieutenant governor, 250 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and so forth and so on. I got 251 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: a whole page of his credentials. Go in, David, and remember, Jonathan, 252 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: you're not with us as often. Please jump in. Don't 253 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: be intimidated by Cheryl or Karen or David or Stephanie 254 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: our old hands. Jump in when you're ready to go ahead, 255 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: David Leroy, and so you recall it four years ago 256 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: while campaigning on campus, I was actually at that residence 257 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: twenty two King Street, and the exact location, the precise 258 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: area is very significant here too, because I think it 259 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: underscores how important this car. Maybe even twenty two King 260 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: Street is halfway up a hill and in an almost 261 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: a cul de sac type of area where they're even 262 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: during daytime, would not be a lot of traffic. So 263 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: for a vehicle to be moving away from or in 264 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: the area of this almost dead end King Street halfway 265 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: up a hill off campus, but not in any kind 266 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: of high traffic area or near an arterial. Maybe even 267 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: more significant than a typical car moving at four am. 268 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: David Leroy, I love everything you just said, and I 269 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: love it so much I want to relive it. Tell 270 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: me all that one more time. Eleven twenty two King Street. 271 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: When I was there four years ago, visiting the house 272 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: was a little bit difficult to get to, hold on 273 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: to se, hold on to to sex Sydney. While he's talking, 274 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: keep up Google, Matt, and get me an aerial on 275 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: eleven twenty two King Street, because I want to see 276 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: if it's still the same way as David Leroy is recalling. Okay, 277 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: go ahead, David, when I was at eleven twenty two 278 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: King Street to three years ago, four years ago, you 279 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: have to go from the main campus up an area 280 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: across an athletic field and then turn right to a 281 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: couple of blocks. Okay, hold on up an air across 282 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: the athletic field, and then what Then? Then you begin 283 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: to go up a hill and it's almost a dead 284 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: end cul de sac where you move into the parking 285 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: area of eleven twenty two King Street. It is not 286 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: adjacent to any high traffic area. There's not a lot 287 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: of arterial type traffic there, so at three am or 288 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: four am, a car moving in that particular area is 289 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: going to be far more significant than a car moving 290 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: someplace else in town. Even at that same unusual hour, 291 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: even during daylight, there is very little traffic on David, 292 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: which house is it? Show me which when you're talking about. Oh, 293 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: I see exactly what you mean. I'm seeing exactly what 294 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: David Leroy is talking about. There are not any big streets. Oh, 295 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: Cheryl mccam, you gotta pull this up leading right into 296 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: where the house is. I see exactly what he's talking about. 297 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: It's kind of in a circle ish roadway. Yeah, I 298 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: see what you mean. There's not a lot of traffic 299 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: going in and out there. So any movement in the 300 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: middle of the night between three and four, I want 301 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: to know who saw the car at three and four 302 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, But any movement of that car 303 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: near eleven twenty two King, I mean, I would say 304 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: that's immediately suspicious. So I want to get that person 305 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: and find out why they were there. And hey, you 306 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: know Karen start and joining me. Renowned New York psychologists 307 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: joining us from Manhattan. She's at karen start dot com 308 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: Karen with a See Karen. I always kind of laugh 309 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: inside when I'm watching a crime, a pretend crime show. 310 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: Let's just pretend we're talking about CSI or Monk or something, 311 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: and a car is parked on the street and they 312 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: always get a ticket or something at the time of 313 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: the crime. Always happens, there's something about that car that 314 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: is noticed by somebody, and that car is always connected 315 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: to the crime. At the end, for segments, the case 316 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: is solved, and that includes commercial breaks because it's not 317 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: that neat and easy, just like gilliam was saying earlier, 318 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: it's not like that at all. But that has a 319 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: grain of truth in it. Why are people killers perhaps 320 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: so arrogant? I mean, it's like they're driving up to 321 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: McDonald's to get a big mac as curb service. They 322 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: part right there, do the crime and they leave. What 323 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: frame of mind is that they're not thinking about those 324 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: kinds of details? Very lucky, man, I mean, think of that, 325 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: that whole story would take Bundy. I'm not going through 326 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: a stop sign and everybody is looking to this guy 327 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: and that's how they catch him. And I'm thinking about 328 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: this particular scen and whoever this is a person or 329 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: two people. Baits did not care about the fact that 330 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: there were so many people and they took huge chances. Hey, 331 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: you know what, Elston might be here and start not caring. 332 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: Arrogance or Johns and Gilliam recklessness. We've heard this as 333 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: a quote sloppy crime scene was that name? And then 334 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: the recklessness of potentially having your car parked right outside 335 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: it shows a certain degree of unpreparedness, not planned, which 336 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: tells us about the mind of the killer. And positivity 337 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: is what you're talking about. Yes, Jonathan, Right as I'm 338 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: looking at this map, I'm looking at the same map 339 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: that you have. You have to realize that there's that's 340 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: on a grade heel grade there, but there's multiple places 341 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: that somebody who was going to think their way through 342 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: an attack and be a methodical attacker if they were driving, 343 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: they would part their car in a vicinity just outside 344 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: of there and walk through the trees and probably not 345 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: been spotted. Even that area of trees behind where their 346 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: house is is a known path for people to walk 347 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: to and from school and up to those fraternity houses 348 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: above that house. That actually the Stigma Tie house looks 349 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: right down on their house. So, um, you know, as 350 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at that, there's so many places that that 351 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: car could have been parked. And again that's where if 352 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: there are any cameras on any of those buildings, if 353 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: there's cell towers anywhere around there, that the phone could 354 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: be handed off to multiple cell towers, and and that 355 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: helps in triangulating where that car might have been. But 356 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: this is a very interesting place because, as Day was 357 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: explaining there a second ago, the way that closes off 358 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: in a cul de sac, there's a lot of roads 359 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: there that do the same thing. There's very there's several 360 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: roads that stop, and anybody who goes into that is 361 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: going to have to turn around and go back out. 362 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: So what I would hope is if they find cameras 363 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: that they can look earlier in the day and see 364 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: if that car was there earlier in the day, because 365 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: there is a chance that if they were actually looking 366 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: and stalking this neighborhood, that they had been through there before, 367 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: and I would think that's probably the cage. Icycle Listen 368 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: to our friends at CBS, there's a major development tonight 369 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: in the murder of four college students in Idaho. Detectives 370 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: want to speak to the driver of a white two 371 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: eleven to twenty thirteen Hyundai Elantra with unknown license plate. 372 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: They say the occupants of the car may have critical 373 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: information regarding the case. Also today you can see police 374 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: began collecting the victim's personal belongings that they say are 375 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: no longer needed for the investigation. They want to return 376 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: them to their families. We are learning that much of 377 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: the personal items in the home are being packed away. 378 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: The families, of course will want these, but what does 379 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: that tell us about the progression of the processing of 380 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: the saints. Take a listen to Chief James fry Moscow. Please. Yeah, tomorrow, 381 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: me and my command team and other individuals will be 382 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: going in to box up personal belongings of the people 383 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: that live there, and we're going to be getting those 384 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: items back to the families. It's time for us to 385 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: get those things back that really means something to those 386 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: families and hopefully to help with some of their healing. 387 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: We have a lot of investigators investigating, and you know, 388 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm not tied into the investigation side of it where 389 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm physically interviewing people, and it's important to me, it's 390 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: important for us as a department to go in and 391 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: take care of the families and get the items for 392 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: them so that they can have some of those back 393 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: and some of those memories back that are fond memories. 394 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm a dad, I understand, I understand, 395 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: you know the meaning behind some of those things. It 396 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: may be something that you know, we gave one of 397 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: our children or something, and we're just trying to bring 398 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: some of that healing. Stephan Nafagan is joining us Foxing 399 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: is Digital. What happened well, so, yes, as Chief Fry 400 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: just said yesterday and even potentially today, they said there's 401 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: a potential they could be back today, Chief Fry and 402 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: several other police personnel went into the home and came 403 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: out with several items that we were told belonged to 404 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: the victims. I want to stress that this is not 405 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: every item inside the home or that belonged to these victims, 406 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: but some that police said they have deemed clear to 407 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: be removed from the home. The families were not present 408 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: at the time, at least as far as I can 409 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: tell from everything I've seen and read, But this was 410 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: police removing items, packing them up in boxes, and putting 411 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: them in trucks to haul them elsewhere. What do you 412 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: make that, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, I think after a month, 413 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: if you're talking about some jewelry, some clothing, some pictures, 414 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: maybe some objects that are important of the family to 415 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: get back because they were a funamental gift or something, 416 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's perfectly appropriate. Yes, I don't read anything 417 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: into it one way or the other. Extet that they 418 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: have managed to differentiate between what's important and what's not. 419 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: Who's jumping in is that, David Lee Roy? Go ahead? 420 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: I would say that there is, of course some opportunity 421 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: for the defense in a case when one is brought 422 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: to say the crime scene was damaged or tampered with. 423 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: Hopefully they're being extremely careful and scientifically neutral on anything 424 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: they do when there. I agree with giving the material back, 425 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: but it does raise a defense possibility for attack. I 426 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: disagree once the scene has been secured and they have 427 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: processed it, they should give all of that stuff back. 428 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: As you know. I mean, of course you're seeing TV right. 429 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: Once a murder scene has been cleaned and processed, that 430 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: house will probably be rented out to other people. But 431 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: what you said is Roy, David Lee Roy, they darn 432 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: well better make sure they're done before they tamper with 433 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: that scene. Not only do we understand items are given 434 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: back to the families as they should be to Karen 435 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: Stark sentimentally, very very important. It's incredibly important, Mancy, because 436 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: think about it, when you lose somebody, don't. I don't 437 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: know about you, but I'm suspecting that when your dad 438 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: died you kept personal items. I know I did, and 439 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: I slept it the longest time with my dad's glasses 440 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: under my pillow. And it's just the way to try 441 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: and hold on to the person for as long as 442 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: you do. It's really important. You're right, Karen Stark. And 443 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: you know that I did about that real quick. Yeah, 444 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: we move on. This is and I'm always coming from 445 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: the investigative standpoint right, which unfortunately that it's hard for 446 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: people to take. Is a very unemotional and neutral standpoint. 447 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: And I've lost loved ones and I've felt the emotion. 448 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: But when I'm doing investigation, I shut those things off. 449 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: And I think, in this case, what bothers me about 450 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: them stopping what they're doing and taking the time out. 451 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: They said for a second day, people are going to 452 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: be in there collecting items to get back to the family. 453 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: That's investigators that could have been running leads that time 454 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: in this critical stage that they are stopping and have 455 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: you to do a critical search because they have to 456 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: be very careful, as Dave was saying, in what they 457 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: take and how they take it, otherwise it could cause 458 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: problems later on. Guys, I know what John and Killian 459 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: was saying may sound harsh, but how are we to 460 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: know the killer didn't come into the bedroom and pick 461 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: up one of the girls brushes or touch her things 462 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: sitting on her vanity. We don't know, so the point 463 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: is well taken. Harsh but true. Another face of the 464 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: investigation we haven't heard a lot about, and it's because 465 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: suddenly focus was put on Kellegosalvis and her roommate Maddie 466 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: after Kelley's father came out and stated that he believes 467 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: Keilly was the intended victim, making the others I guess 468 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: collateral damage. We don't know that is correct, but we 469 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: do know that cops are now honing in on the 470 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: movements of the other two murder victims. Zanna and Ethan 471 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at ABC police zeroing 472 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: in on the movements of two of the University of 473 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: Idaho victims Zannah Carnal and Ethan Chiapan the night they 474 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: were murdered, looking specifically at the hours between nine pm 475 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: and one forty five am, when the couple was believed 476 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: to be at Ethan's fraternity Why are you looking for 477 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: more information specifically about where Zanna and Ethan were in 478 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: regards to his fraternity house. That actually seems to be 479 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: one of the larger areas that we don't have a 480 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 1: lot of information in and so being able to locate 481 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: what they did that night, to maybe who they contacted, 482 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: maybe any routes that they took home that would be 483 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: important for the investigation. To Stephanie Paganis Fox Needs Digital 484 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, what do you know about their movements that night? 485 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Ethan Insiana, right, So there has been 486 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: four days, if not weeks, questions about where they were. 487 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: You know, there there's a piece of the puzzle that 488 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: has is still missing regarding their whereabouts. The police seem 489 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: to be concerned that these people who might have been 490 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: with them might have been doing something else and they 491 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: might therefore be fearful that if they say what they 492 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: were doing, they might get in trouble for something else, 493 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. But police have made it very 494 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: clear to me and even in their efforts, they're just 495 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what happened here. They're hoping that 496 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: could shed more light on what was going on, paint 497 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: a bigger picture of what was happening. Now, we do 498 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: believe that earlier in the night on November twelfth, even 499 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: actually attended an event, a different Greek life event on 500 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: campus with his sister. He is a triplet if two 501 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: other siblings did also attend the University of Idaho, so 502 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 1: that does paint a picture. But as far as I know, 503 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: and it's not I'm not certain on this, but there's 504 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: a question of whether Zana was with him, and if 505 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: she wasn't, where was she during that time. That's a 506 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: really good point. What does this mean, sharl McCollum, Well, again, 507 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: you're trying to connect these dots. Who did they interact with? 508 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: You know, when did they leave, where did they go? 509 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: Because you're talking about from nine o'clock at night till 510 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: about one forty five, so almost five hours that their 511 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: movements are unaccounted for, So we don't know if they 512 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: came in contact with somebody if they went somewhere and 513 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, purchase something or went to another party. We 514 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: don't know where they were for at least five hours, 515 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: and that's something police want to know. And why do 516 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: you believe it is so sign efficant, Cheryl, Because again, 517 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: at some point these four people intersected with a killer. 518 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: Was it before that killer entered the house? They're gonna 519 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: want to narrow this down. Did Ethan have a problem 520 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: with somebody? Did they have a you know, a little 521 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: argument with somebody over something We don't know. We don't 522 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: know if it's the food truck people, we don't know 523 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: if it's the Uber driver. There's all of these connections 524 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: that we've got to check off before we move on. 525 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: And again, the car is a great start, but you know, 526 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: you've got two other people that have nothing to do with, 527 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, the food trucks or Uber driver crime stories. 528 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, not only are they zeroing in on 529 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: the movement side Ethan and Zanna, which there are gaps 530 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: of hours leading up to the murders, we also are 531 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: getting a little light shed on the claim that Chilly 532 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: Gonsalves was the intended victim. Take a listen to KNA 533 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: Whitworth Police also addressing information about the victim's manner of death, 534 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: after Kayley's father said he learned his daughter's wounds were 535 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: much more severe than her friends, fearing Kaylee was the target. 536 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: Please don't be my child, that's the target. Police telling 537 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: ABC News they have not provided the family with that information. 538 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: Authorities also telling me they're not attempting to refute what 539 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: the family is saying. Ultimately, they want to protect the 540 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: integrity of this investigation. But as time marches on, Steve 541 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: tells us he's been approached by a private investigator to 542 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: help solve this case. Okay, I'm trying to decipher what 543 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: the Moscow police are saying. They're not refuting what Steve 544 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: Gonsalves is saying that his daughters injuries were much more 545 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: brutal and severe than the others, indicating she could have 546 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: been the target. They're not refuting it, but they're also saying, 547 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: we didn't say that. So what are they saying. David Leroy, Well, 548 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: we've had a lot of trouble with this whole word 549 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: targeting right from the outset. Originally it was used to 550 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: try to calm the public, to suggest that this was 551 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: a sufficiently targeted homicide for people involved that the rest 552 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: of the public generally in Moscow and on the campus, 553 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: should not be concerned. Then we got into trouble with, 554 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: for instance, a prosecutor saying that it appeared one person 555 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: was specifically targeted. Then we backed off from that, saying, well, 556 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: we're not sure that either the residents or any person 557 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: was targeted. So we've used targeted the word in a 558 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: couple of different ways to try to generally calm the 559 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: public and then to try to characterize specific evidence as 560 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: to either a location or a person. I'm not sure 561 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: that the word targeting has any use for us anymore. 562 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: The specifics of who did what to whom and who 563 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: received is important, and apparently the police are not willing 564 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: to say, as the dad did, that the wounds on 565 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: one specific person were more significant to the point of 566 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: being valid evidence as to who a target was inside 567 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: the house. I think it's just the police being careful 568 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: not to compromise the investigation. What do you think, Cheryl, 569 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: I mean again, Nancy, I think it's really important that 570 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: we understand what they're trying to connect. They're not just 571 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: trying to connect these victims with somebody now they're I mean, honestly, 572 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: they're having a look at the dog. Why does the 573 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: dog have no evidence? Why was the dog left alive? 574 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: Why was the dog put in another room? Oh? Interesting 575 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: that she brought up the dog. Take a list into ABC. 576 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: Zenna and Ethan stabbed to death less than a block 577 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: away at Zanna's home, along with Kayley Gunsalvis, and Madison Mogan, 578 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: who were found on the top floor. Two roommates survived, 579 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: along with Kayley's dog seen in this TikTok video. Authorities 580 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: now say the dog was found inside the home, but 581 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: in a separate room from the victims. How important is 582 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: the behavior of the dog in your investigation? We don't 583 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: believe that there was any appearance of four entering into 584 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: the home and as well, at this time, we have 585 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: not determined if the dog was inside the residence hearing 586 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: the murders or not. What we do know is that 587 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: the dog was inside when officers arrived. The dog did 588 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: not appear to have any evidence on it. Okay, what 589 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: if anything? And you conclude from that, Cheryl, Well, again, 590 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: the dog had no blood, so the dog was not 591 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: in the bedroom near its owner. The dog did not 592 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: sympathize with the owner after death. That's very unusual. So 593 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: it says to me that that dog that loved and 594 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: cared about her was a nowhere near her, maybe put 595 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: in another room with the door closed, or put outside 596 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: the bedroom door, and that door was also closed. To me, 597 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: it's key that the dog was left alive. That tells 598 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: you about the psyche of the killer. And again you've 599 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: got this animal that can't speak to you, but in 600 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: certain ways certainly can. Are you suggesting that the killer 601 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: may have put the dog away in a different room. 602 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: I'm flat out saying that, yes. Absolutely. It reminds me 603 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: of the case of Molly Tippets who went jogging, and 604 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: a big factor in the reasoning, the rationale of police 605 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: about what happened that night was how she left her 606 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: boyfriend's dog back at the residence. Just thinking through what 607 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: we're talking about, let me circle back to the car. 608 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: But Nancy, you remember Nicole Brown. Her dog was frantic. 609 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: Her dog had blood all over him because he was 610 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: going back and forth between her. I recall Akita very 611 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: very well. Yeah, And in that case, police at some 612 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: point started their timeline based on when neighbors heard the 613 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: dog howling right in the car. There are ways. There 614 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: are entire units within metropolitan police stations that are devoted 615 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 1: to finding stolen cars. Cars are very unique. The tailwise, 616 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: the front end, the slope of the rear, or the 617 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: engine cover changes every one to two to three years. 618 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: One of the ways that costs can determine the year 619 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: to make year model of a vehicle. To anyone on 620 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: the panel that is familiar with that jump in as 621 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: to how they can identify this is a twenty eleven 622 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: to twenty thirteen und elantraum. What about it, Gilliam, I mean, 623 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: this is really not just an art but a science 624 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: among police departments. Right well, this is you know, actually, 625 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, this is probably one of 626 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: the lesser technically advanced in kind of that old gumshoe 627 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: police officer, a technique where it's only difference is we 628 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: have camera cameras out there. You can get a fuzzy 629 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: picture of a car, and the usually the automotive divisions 630 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: where they douce automotive primes. That's in the bigger cities. 631 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 1: But people who are who know vehicles very well can 632 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: look at these different pictures and as you said, every 633 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: couple of years they change something. And if they can 634 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: just pick up on some of those aspects of the cars, 635 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: it's pretty much a comparative type of investigating and a 636 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: knowledge base. And this is the other thing when it 637 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: comes to any evidence collection or going through the evidence, 638 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: you have to have people who are experienced in this. 639 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: And so when you're looking at these types of vehicles, 640 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: they must have a picture somewhere of a vehicle that 641 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: they're queuing in on this year. Otherwise, either that or 642 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: somebody has said that they know somebody who had this 643 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: year of a vehicle, there's another issue on the vehicle. 644 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: To Karen start, I recently had a case where a 645 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: car approached a crime scene at night. The witness was 646 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: at least thirty forty feet away. She could not see 647 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: the make of the car. What she did see where 648 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: the tail lights. It was dark, and she said that 649 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: they looked like two exclamation points on either side of 650 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: the car. What it turned out to be is I 651 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: recall was a Cherokee and in the new in the 652 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: Cherokeys of that year, there were lights going down the 653 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: side of the car either side and then at the 654 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 1: bottom near the tailpipe. So in her mind it looked 655 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,959 Speaker 1: like two exclamation points. Now, if you've stolen a car 656 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: and you're using it for a crime, that's one thing. 657 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: But there's something about the human psyche. They don't want 658 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: to get rid of their own car. And if it's 659 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: Elantra belonged to a material witness or the purp, they 660 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: may not want to get rid of it. I think 661 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm really Nancy. Also that it's a decade old vehicle 662 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: between two eleven twenty thirteen. It sounds to me like 663 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: it would be the kind of car that a college 664 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: student would take the campus. And what about that psyche 665 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,479 Speaker 1: I was asking you about, Karen start, I'm not wanting 666 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: to get rid of your own car. Well, because you're 667 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: attached to your carmency, and particularly if you think that 668 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: there's a possibility to college student you wait such a 669 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: long time to have a car, and if it's somebody 670 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: in posts as we've been talking about, they're not even 671 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: going to think out the fact that this car is 672 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: something that they should get rid of because they're so 673 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: intent on keeping their car and having their identity tied 674 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: to the car. So that's that's a really interesting points. 675 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: And also the fact that there's a possibility that they're 676 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: talking about people in the car, not person in the car. 677 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: So what does that mean. We're there two people that 678 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: they're talking about. More, what is it that the police 679 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: are looking for? Guys? The tip line is two zero 680 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: eight eight eight three seven one eight zero repeat two 681 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: zero eight eight eight three seven one eight zero. We 682 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,959 Speaker 1: wait as justice on falls. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye,