1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: It could happen. Here is the podcast that this is 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: about things falling apart and how to, how to, how 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: to maybe unfollowing apart. I'm Robert Evans. Your your your host, 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: and your other hosts are Christopher and Garrison and our 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: producers Sophie. How's everybody doing today? Great? How's every how's 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: everybody feel about war? Oh? Yeah? Now, if you were 7 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: to get us based on your knowledge of history, what 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: generation of war we're in right now? What would you? What? 9 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: What would y'all guess? I feel like war isn't it's 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: it's it's newer in relation to like human beings. Like 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: the idea of war, I'm guessing like there's been like battles, 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: but like the idea of like war, I feel like 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: isn't super old compared to how long has been humans 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: walking around. So I don't know this is maybe I mean, 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: I know the answer, but like it's it's like like 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: that's that's definitely We definitely passed through like at least 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: a couple of stages and were at least a couple Chris, 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: like gotta be at least twelve twelve least you are 19 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: way ahead of William s Lynd who spoilers is the 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: guy who came up with the concept of fourth generation war, 21 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: which is what this episode is about. Right. One of 22 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: the things when we talk about things falling apart is 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: um the unsettling growth of a number of different hybrid conflicts, 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: Ukraine being the most like blatant modern example, Syria being 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: the deadliest example in our lifetimes. But like these weird 26 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: hybrid conflicts that are a mix of shit happening on 27 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: the Internet and like disinformation going out all over the world. 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: You could even think to like what was happening in 29 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Bolivia a year or so back, and like all those 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: weird accounts that were like based around Langley, Virginia claiming 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: to support the military coup, And you can look at, 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: like from the same this disinformation brought out by like 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: the Russian state that is usually as part of like 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: a conflict either you know, they have disinfo operations and 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: Syria disinfo operations around the conflict in Ukraine that are 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: kind of designed to muddy the issues and to detract 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: international support and also to like drum up support within 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: for like in the in the case of Ukraine, you 39 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: had like this media blitz against the legitimacy of the 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Ukrainian state in favor of like a more UH like 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: traditionally Russian um UH style of government in the East, 42 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: and like that led to this breakaway republic that was 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: supported by the Russian government and like so these are 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: like hybrid conflicts is kind of how these are referred to. 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: And there was a guy named William S. Lynd who 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine wrote a book with a couple 47 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: of US military analysts, Like he was an analyst for 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: the military. He was not serving in the military. The 49 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: other guys he wrote this this thing with we're serving 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: at the time, and they wrote this this book kind 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: of trying to basically what Lynde was doing. He was 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: very influenced by our loss in Vietnam when I say, 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,399 Speaker 1: are here, like the loss of the American state in Vietnam, 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: And he was trying to determine, like number one, kind 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: of like find a way to codify and explain the 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: changes that were happening to warfare in this period. Was 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: also influenced about what was happening in Afghanistan with the 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: Russians were experiencing um and find a way to like 59 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: move forward and allow the United states to win wars again, right, 60 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: Like that was William S. Lynd's goal, um, And so 61 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: he came up with this concept of four or he 62 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: and some other guys came up with what they called 63 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: fourth generation warfare UM, and first generation warfare is like 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: Napoleonic Arab warfare. So, like as Garrison was saying, you 65 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: may note that he kind of starts his that's pretty late. 66 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: That's pretty late we had before. Yeah, that's there's a 67 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that leads up to like, yeah, if 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: I was gonna try to categorize different types of warfare, 69 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: that would not be the one I start with. Well, 70 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: like the reality of course, as we'll talk about, like 71 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: when you start looking at different kinds of warfares, there's 72 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: wars that look remarkably like the ship going on in 73 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and Ukraine, that are occurring like several thousand years ago, um, 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: like like like in the same places to like, yeah, 75 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: it's just like if you wanted to if you wanted 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: to talk about like kind of the modern style of 77 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: wars that we saw on that we've seen really in 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: the last like hundred and fifty years, they're not all 79 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: that dissimilar. In a lot of ways from like the 80 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: kind of conflicts you saw between Rome and Carthage um, 81 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: which are these really like big nation state style conflicts 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: and and have a lot of similarities. But but William S. 83 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: Lynn described the first generation of warfare is beginning after 84 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: the Peace of Westphalia in sixty eight that ended the 85 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: Thirty Years War um. And it's the kind of warfare 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: where you have these like big, tightly ordered groups of 87 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: men marching towards each other and like firing very inaccurate 88 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: weapons and mass together. Right. Uh. This is ended by 89 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 1: the era of the machine gun and the semi automatic 90 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: rifle um or on the bolt reaction rifle, I should say, 91 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: And that leads us to second generation warfare, which is 92 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: linear fire and movement with heavy reliance on indirect fires. 93 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: That's still huge groups of guys charging, but they're not 94 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: marching in close order, they're not like firing in volleys um, 95 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: and they're supported by heavy artillery like World War one 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: kind of ship right. Um. Really we start to see 97 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: this in eighteen seventy and then World War One is 98 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: kind of the height of this kind of warfare, and 99 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: over the course of World War One we more merge 100 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: in again This is William S. Len's way we emerge 101 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: from second generation to third generation warfare, which is where 102 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: you've got infiltration tactics to bypass enemy defensive lines and 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: collapse it, which is kind of the Germans and their 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: outrgs tactic and stormtrooper tactics are really kind of uh 105 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: pioneering that you've got the idea of defense in depth 106 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: um and so this need to bypass the enemy and 107 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: like this leads to blitzkrieg and leads to all sorts 108 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: of ship um and then that kind of starts to 109 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: collapse and Len's estimation around Vietnam, and you get what's 110 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: called fourth generation warfare. Fourth generation. I'm actually just going 111 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: to read a quote from a military history wiki that 112 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: I thought had any good description of all of this. 113 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: Fourth generation warfare is normally characterized by a violent non 114 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: state actor fighting a state. This fighting can be physically done, 115 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: such as by modern examples Hezblah or the liberation Tigers 116 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: of Tamil illam Um. In this realm, the v n essay. 117 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: These violent nonstate actors use all three levels of fourth 118 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: generation warfare. These are the physical actual combat, which is 119 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: considered the least important mental the will to fight, belief 120 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: in victory, etcetera. And the moral, which is the most important, 121 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: Lynd says, and includes cultural norms, etcetera. Um, So obviously 122 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: I think that this is kind of nonsense. There's a 123 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: lot of people, So there's a lot of folks, the 124 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: people who buy into this, and it's very popular on 125 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: the right. Well, we'll look at like what's happening in 126 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: Ukraine is a perfect example of fourth generation warfare because 127 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: you have Russia flooding the zone using spot Nick and 128 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: a bunch of other kind of media organizations to drum 129 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: up um discord and like anger between East and West 130 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: in Ukraine and support for potential Russian action at the 131 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: same time as you have them backing this dictator um, 132 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: and then you have like the West sort of supporting 133 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: the people protesting against those dictators and like so you've 134 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: got like this this digital conflict, this information conflict that 135 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: eventually leads to fighting on the ground. One of the 136 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: areas in which I think Lynda is really off is 137 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: talking about like the physical as the least important, especially 138 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: if you're going to consider Ukraine an example of fourth 139 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: generation warfare, because if the Russian military had not intervened, 140 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: there would not still be a conflict in Ukraine, the 141 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: Separatists would not still hold land, and in fact, the 142 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: Separatis were on the edge of getting completely wiped out 143 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: by the Ukrainian military because they were a bunch of 144 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: nonstate actors with minimal support and minimal weaponry before the 145 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: Russians moved in brigades of active duty combat troops in 146 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: armor um, including like gigantic fucking missile launchers which they 147 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: used to shoot down that Malaysian airlines flight like that. 148 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: It's it's just not I I don't think that that. 149 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: What what Linda is saying is very um, very well 150 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: describes what's actually going on in the world. But it 151 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: is important to understand the concept of fourth generay and 152 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: warfare and fifth generation warfare, which we'll talk about in 153 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: a bit um because it is so useful in the 154 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: way in which particularly guys like Steve Bannon um conceive 155 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: of conflict. Because that you will hear the term fourth 156 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: generation warfare constantly, and it's also something that has used 157 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: a lot within our military establishment. Now a lot of 158 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: people hate it, and within you can find a lot 159 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: of papers buy dudes writing like analysts who are working 160 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: for the Defense Department for the army actively like shipping 161 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: on lynd and talking about how he's at best is 162 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of like reinvented ideas that existed in warfare for 163 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: thousands of years, and he's kind of summarized things in 164 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: a way that that is needlessly flattening, and like some 165 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: people will say, you basically like ripped up like added 166 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: the internet to klauswitz uh and pretended that you'd invented 167 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: a new style of conor that you defined a new 168 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: style of conflict. Anyway, that's like an introduction to the 169 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: idea of fourth generation warfare, right. And there's a lot 170 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: of things that he gets again like if you're if 171 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: you're a history a military has story wong, which Lynde 172 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: pretends to be a lot of ship that he gets wrong. Um. 173 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: So one of the things that he says, like one 174 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: of his famous phrases that every military eventually craps in 175 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: its own mess kit um, the idea that like every 176 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: military that that is great eventually like has a gigantic 177 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: funk up because they get too used to doing the 178 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: same thing, which is true um. And he describes it 179 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: as like um, the Prussians did in eighteen oh six, 180 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: after which they designed and put into service a much 181 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: more improved model mesh Kit mess Kit through the Sharonhorst 182 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: military reforms. The French did in eighteen seventy, after which 183 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: they took down from the shelf and old model mess 184 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: ket the mass draft Army of the First Republic and 185 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: put it back into service. The Japanese did it in 186 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: five after which they threw their mesket away, swearing they 187 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: would never eat again. And we did it in Korea, 188 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: in Vietnam, and now in four new wars so far 189 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: we've only we've had the only military that's just kept 190 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: on eating. And that's a really dumb statement. That's all 191 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: really historically and accurate. So, for example, it's true that 192 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: like the Prussians had a great military which then got 193 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: its butt kicked by Napoleon and they had to completely 194 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: redesign it, and by the time eighteen seventy came around, 195 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: they were extremely dominant on the battlefield be against the French. 196 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: Number One, he's crediting the military reforms of like tactics 197 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: and strategy and ignoring things like Krupp inventing an entirely 198 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: new kind of cannon that was utterly dominant on the battlefield. Um. 199 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: He's also ignoring the fact that this Prussian army. Um, 200 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: he's saying, like the US is the only army that 201 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: does the same thing over and over again and fails 202 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: and keeps on eating. Well, the Prussian Army is the 203 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: army the Germans took into battle in World War One 204 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: and two and spoilers, they didn't learn enough from either 205 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: of those wars. Um. He also talks about how like 206 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: the French had their you know, crapping in the mess 207 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: hit moment in eighteen seventy after the Franco Prussian War, 208 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: and they changed their army and it was much better. Like, well, 209 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: they didn't win World War One, like they were on 210 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: the side that one, but if it had been them 211 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: against Germany, they would have gotten fucking steamrolled. Like it 212 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: was not going well for them for quite a while, 213 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: and they lost a whole generation of young men. So 214 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: maybe and and again this is like what he's saying 215 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: is basically, we because we're using so constantly. The reason 216 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: that we're losing is not because we are picking bad conflicts. 217 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: It's not because we're picking to engage in conflicts when 218 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: we shouldn't at all be engaging in conflicts. It is 219 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: not because we use military force in like a fundamentally 220 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: venal and corrupt way in order to benefit a small 221 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: cabal of military industrial corporations. It's because we we don't 222 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: have good battle doctrine, and that's why we're not winning 223 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: in these conflicts, which ignores everything about the reality of 224 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: the conflicts that like he's talking about, Like, the problem 225 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: is not a lack of combat dominance, which is is 226 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: what you were seeing with like the Prussians fighting Napoleon. 227 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: It's what you were seeing with the French fighting the 228 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: Germans in eighteen seventy, right, Like in those cases, the 229 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: Prussians had a massive failure of combat dominance against the French, 230 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: and the French had a massive failure in combat against 231 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: the Germans. Their doctrine was just worse. Um Us soldiers 232 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: are great at getting into gunfights and great at winning 233 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: gun fights. The problem is not a lack of combat ability. 234 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: The problem is that they're no way to win the 235 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: conflicts that we're getting into. They are unwinnable wars that 236 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: were never things that like, no amount of change in 237 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: doctrine would have made Afghanistan a success because it was 238 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: a stupid war. Like it's like if if that were true, 239 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: like coin would have worked and co Yeah no, like 240 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: Colt yeah yeah, just complete total and utter failure, like 241 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: enormous numbers of people dead, enormous numbers of like people 242 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: traumatized for generations, and the U S still just lost 243 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: both wars, yeah, and and and and if you really 244 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: dig into Lynd and others like him, what they're actually 245 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: saying when they say that, like we need to reform 246 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: like the way the military works with new battle doctorments. 247 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: We need to be killing even more people. We just 248 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: didn't kill enough in Vietnam, like the five million we 249 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: bombed or so that wasn't enough people like that. That's 250 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: the reform that he's really talking about. UM. And Lynd 251 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: one of those people who like rants about the like 252 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: the the the El Salvadorian option. UM, I'm sure he does. 253 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what he said about Al Salvador. 254 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: He's a fascinating kind of fascist. Um. He is absolutely 255 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: a fascist. He was the director of the Center for 256 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: Cultural Conservatism at the Free Congress Foundation UM. He wrote 257 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: a or he helped to popularize a Declaration of Cultural 258 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: Independence by Cultural Conservatives UM, which is like these there's 259 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the seeds of the ship that we're 260 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: seeing today, right that like American culture institutions are being 261 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: collapsed because of like liberal decadence and conservatives. Cultural conservatives 262 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: should separate themselves and like set up parallel institutions where 263 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: Bannon comes in. And that's where Bannon comes in. That 264 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: where like fucking Andrew Torba and gab come and they 265 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: all advocate this ship. Yeah, because they're all they all 266 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: adhere to that kind of uh yeah, like politics has 267 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: culture and there's downstream. Yeah, And there's some weird differences 268 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: with Lynd Like he's a huge mass transit and urban 269 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: rail advocate, which I guess I agree with him. Fine, 270 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: once in a while, a bad person does have a 271 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: good opinion. He loves he loves him some fucking city 272 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: trains and stuff. Um, but he's also he was a 273 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: major factor. He was one of the earliest, like prominent 274 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: conservatives who was like yelling about cultural Marxism and kind 275 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: of the modern political period. I mean that makes sense 276 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: because he was really into it. Sounds like he's real 277 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: into metapolitics. So yeah, that's super in the metapolis. Yeah, 278 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: So like all of this stuff makes a whole lot 279 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: of sense if you're yeah, if you're if you know what, 280 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: if you know what meta politics are, it's also kind 281 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: of explains how he developed the different generations of warfare 282 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: using it through a framework of metal politics actually really 283 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: makes that fit if you believe, like Breitbart famously stated 284 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: that like politics is downstream from culture, and if you 285 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: also believe what Claus I think it was class Wits 286 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: that said that, like war is politics by other means 287 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: than like you can make cultural can cause wars, and like, yeah, 288 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: like that's a lot like kind of I think the 289 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: thought process behind n Yeah, because this this really defines 290 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: what he means by fourth generation warfare of war being 291 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: handed out typically by the culture, instead of having it 292 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: be abstracted to be like people marching towards each other 293 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: with guns. Because he's, he's, he's, he's putting the he's 294 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: putting the culture kind of back into it. Yeah, and 295 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: he and he's and he's and and obviously culture was 296 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: never not a factor, of course, not like every single 297 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: war is, but a major factor, like all of this 298 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: ship he talks about is being characters to go. Fourth 299 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: generation warfare has been happening in one way or another 300 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: for thousands of years. But it's it's not that these 301 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: things are done in like temporal succession. It's like because 302 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: because like a lot of the stuff that makes up 303 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: fourth generation warfare, like the more like guerrilla warfare aspects, 304 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: come way before, people with guns marching towards each other, 305 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: Africans doing that to Alexander, the goddamn group for the 306 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: Birth of Christ. A lot of a lot of this 307 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: fourth gend stuff is actually like kind of more similar 308 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: to what original warfare probably would have been. Like yeah, 309 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: which I think, yeah, I think to to his credit, 310 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: I think he does actually recognize that at some point 311 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: in his writing now and and and the thing about 312 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: this is is, well, we can pick at it, and 313 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot that's ridiculous in his attitude. 314 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: It's it's close enough to the way that reality works 315 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: that if you're going, if you're thinking about conflict in 316 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: this framework, you can be very successful. It's not like 317 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: an It's inaccurate in some ways because he's he is 318 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: wrongly describing why certain things work. I think is a 319 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: lot of what he's doing. And he's wrong about winning wars. 320 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: I'll say that, um, if if the American military were 321 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: to make the fucking lend the Secretary of Defense and 322 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: give him total power, like he would keep on losing 323 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: wars as hard as we've been losing wars for everyone 324 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: listening to this is lifetime um. But in a cultural sense, 325 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: the kind of culture jamming, which is a term we'll 326 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: talk about more in the future, and but the kind 327 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: of like the propaganda arms and stuff in order to 328 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: the the the the media warfare in order to either 329 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: insight or justify real conflict or or and this is 330 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: one of the areas in which they have been really 331 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: effective to alter the dimension, to alter how internationally a 332 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: conflict is responded to. One of the big successes of 333 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: people like this has been effectively eliminating any kind of 334 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: left wing support for liberatory movements in the Middle East, UM, 335 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: for liberatory movements or for like just like what's happening 336 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: in Ukraine. It's kind of like reflexive. Well, if there's uh, 337 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: if there's a movement for liberation among the people of 338 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: a country, it's probably the c I a like like 339 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: carrying out some sort of op um. That's Lynda and 340 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: his people UM and people influenced by him have been 341 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: a big part of pushing that. Um, it's why Steve 342 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: Bannon is in and is so friendly with like some 343 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: guys on like chunks that they call themselves the left 344 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: and whatnot. It's because, um, there's there's a lot of uh, 345 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ties there, and that is an 346 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: area in which they've been successful because international support really matters. Um, 347 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's uh. And I think like 348 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: the death of internationalism is one of the bigger successes 349 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: that like these these thinkers have kind of had. But yeah, 350 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's that's that's that's a chunk of 351 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: what I had to say. You guys want to know 352 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: more about William S. Lynn because he's I certainly want 353 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: to learn more about William William S Lynd cultural conservative, 354 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: right big on the traditional Christian values of America. You 355 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: want to guess who he considers his ideal leader? Uh 356 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: jfk No, the House of Hogan's all learned. He's a 357 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: Prussian monarchist. Wait oh yeah, okay, everything I said politics, 358 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: he's certainly int hegel and he thinks that the Prussian 359 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: the Prussian monarchy was the best government there ever was 360 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: and was like unfairly crushed by the rest of the 361 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: world and like should have won World War One and 362 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: everything would like he's he's and so he's he's very 363 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: much like a conservative monarchist um and a weird kind 364 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: because like, my god, dude, if you're looking at like 365 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: monarchs who were like the Hogan's allern has had like 366 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: in the modern era, like the first Kaiser Wilhelm was 367 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: broadly competent, but like it went to ship as soon 368 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: as the second and he blames all of World War 369 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: One on the fucking Tsars, like it's it's very silly, 370 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: Like his ideas of history are like very stupid. I 371 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: have an incredibly silly theory of history based on Hagel, 372 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: which is that like every everything Hagel. Briefly, for the 373 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: listeners I know, do not, this is this is you know, 374 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,239 Speaker 1: this is this is the thing. Okay, okay, this this 375 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: is this is. This is my crank theory of history 376 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: based on Hagel, which is that every about forty years 377 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: someone attempts to apply Hagel. Someone like takes charge of 378 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: an incredibly large state and tries to use Hagel to 379 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: run it, and every single time time they don't understand 380 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: the dialectic and it doesn't work. So this for example, 381 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: like if if you can take this as a very 382 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: granul level, right you have Mao, Mao has no idea 383 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: what a dialectic is. You can you can read Mao's work. 384 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: He has no clue, Like he just doesn't he like 385 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: he doesn't he doesn't get it. He thinks that a 386 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: dialectic is when one person with a bat hits the 387 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: other hits the other side, and then when you destroy 388 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: the other side, the dialectic is resolved. Right like that 389 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: That's not what it is, right maw Like because of this, 390 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: the entire Chinese revolution just implodes. Everyone dies, it returns 391 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: to capitalism. Is a complete failure, right you know. And 392 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: and like a lot of the Nazis are very much 393 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: into Hagel. They have again incredibly similar failures the other group. 394 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: People like Lynda think is part of this is that 395 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: all of the people who planned the Iraq War were 396 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: like enormous Sigillian's right, but they've gotten to Hagel through 397 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: this weird like they they've been doing this, they've been 398 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: doing these kind of insurgency stuff and so but they're 399 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: kind of insurgeny stuff was they read Mao, and you know, 400 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: so that they're so they're they're they're reading Hagel, but 401 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: then they're also reading Hagel through Mao and now doesn't 402 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: understand what's going on either. And so when they try 403 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: to apply the Hegelian dialectic and they're like, Okay, well, 404 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: the end of the end of the end of history, 405 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: the end of the Hegelian dialectic is the United States. 406 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: We're just going to impose this on a rock and 407 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: catastrophic failure. So the war listening is, do not attempt 408 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: to apply Hagel. You will completely annihilate your entire political movement, 409 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: like every every everything, everything you love and dream of, everything, 410 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: like every ideology you've ever had. Uh, it will, it 411 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: will crumble beneath you. And yeah, you will watch your 412 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: cities and you watch your cities and armies burn. That's 413 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: that's fine, because the last time my resistance movement, we're 414 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: just gonna be postcanty and object oriented. On ontologist guys. 415 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: You throw a bunch of names and I'm gonna get 416 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: like eight percent of people are just what the funk 417 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: am I hearing about? These dead people? The thing I 418 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: actually wanted to to bring up on this is like 419 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: how fourth and fifth gen are The idea of the 420 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: fourth and fifth gen get applied onto like more insurrection 421 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: based um, like a revolts groups. Right, you can see 422 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: like groups like the Earth Liberation Fund and Animal Liberation 423 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: Front kind of pick and shoes. Elements of the fourth 424 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: and fifth generation were fair to kind of to see 425 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: how their groups formed or were operated. Um. And even 426 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: you could argue that like Ted Kazinski was like a 427 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: fIF fifth generation warfare because he was completely autonomous and 428 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: the actions. Let's let's introduce the idea of fifth generation 429 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: because we just talked about fourth generation warfare, which was 430 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: Lynn's idea. Fifth generation warfare is a concept that has 431 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: come up I believe Daniel Abbott is his name, um. 432 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: And the idea was that like it's a new type 433 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: of warfare that like characterizes a lot of conflicts in 434 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: the modern era where almost everything is non kinetic um, 435 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: but it is still military action UM, so military social engineering, 436 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: misinformation sorry, or attacks not just like decentralized, but like 437 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: states actually using um organized and often fighting non state 438 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: actors who are using kind of the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, 439 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: and this in a lot of this would involve artificial intelligence, 440 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: fully autonomous systems, systems not just botan nets, but like 441 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: algorithms that can like handle a lot of the quote 442 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: unquote fighting. Um william S Lynd hates the idea of 443 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: fourth generation, fifth generation warfare because he's a narcissist and 444 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: he doesn't like anyone using the idea every head of 445 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: the dialectic it keeps going. So what I was what 446 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: I was thinking, is like, is like a lot of 447 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: you can apply fifth generation warfare to like these types 448 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: of groups who are mostly like they do some they 449 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: do some fourth gent tactics in terms of like terrorism, right, 450 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: Like they try to make political statements through terrorism and 451 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: have terrorism an influential thing, but they're demands like you 452 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: rarely like fifth generation stuff has not been around a 453 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: long enough and no one's really been super successful at 454 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: it in the past enough time for us like to 455 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: like recognize that, right, because you can look at a 456 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of like an instructionary type stuff 457 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: around like the Again, I'm just gonna use the Earth 458 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: Liberation Front as an example of like a group that 459 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: attempted kind of these types of tactics, Um, and they 460 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: may have succeeded in the physical sense, but they did 461 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: not succeed in like the cultural sense. Really, um so 462 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: trying to like look at these types of things and 463 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: how they relate to like specific you know, if you're 464 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: gonna use like the take Kazinski example, same thing, except 465 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: he's not a group. He's just one person, which is 466 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: kind of more of a fifth gen thinks he's like 467 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: fully autonomous, whereas I think, um, you know, stuff like 468 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: the e l F tried to have that kind of 469 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: militant group dynamic that is more similar to fourth generation warfare. 470 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: So it's like this picking and choosing of like trying 471 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: to trying to do physical action than trying to do 472 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: cultural action, and it's it's not like the things that 473 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: have succeeded. Let's take for instance, some the defend the 474 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: Cascadian forest thing who just got just got um this 475 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: is the specific action they were working on to protect 476 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: a specific chunk of forest. H The Judge of approved 477 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: their approve their motion because they were they actually were 478 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: successful because they did not form this militant thing right now, 479 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: they were just doing the cultural and it actually really succeeded. 480 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: Um as opposed to just you know, burning down buildings 481 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and stuff to try to get your action forward. So 482 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: just trying to look at like examples of when when 483 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: like the goal is kind of the same and certain 484 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: times succeed, certain certain types don't. How that might influence 485 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: like organizing and how to selectively use like insurrection, but 486 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: have it not be like a default mode for like 487 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: always your group is better if it's in surrectorary m Yeah, 488 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: And I one of the things that does characterize that 489 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: I think is useful if we're because again I have 490 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 1: my criticisms of the value of any of these like 491 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: phrases as kind of discreete concepts. But one of the 492 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: things that I think is useful about the concept of 493 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: fifth generation warfare that does talk about something that is 494 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: legitimately new to conflict that has not really existed before 495 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: before the Internet is omnipresence um that that the conflicts 496 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: are not limited in geographical space or in time, and 497 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: in fact is like a constant factor all around you 498 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: at all times because of the way the information sphere 499 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: kind of actually functions. Um. You know, you can look 500 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: at kind of like the mix of street fights and 501 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: information warfare, doxing and whatnot between fascists and anti fascist 502 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: for the last few years. It's omnipresent, it's always going 503 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: on UM, and the battle space is kind of potentially everywhere, 504 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: even though it's fairly rarely kinetic or physical UM. And 505 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: I do think that that's an area in which, UM, 506 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: it is really worth having a new term, in kind 507 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: of defining a new term, because that's one of the 508 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: few things I think that has legitimately changed. The Internet 509 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: has made all of this stuff that's been happening for 510 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: thousands of years faster UM. But the thing that it's 511 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: really created that was not present before is this the 512 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: this omnipresence UM. So I do think that that's really 513 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: useful when Yeah, because like I would like to how 514 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: conflict is different. I would like to kind of like 515 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: think about like January six, within these frameworks, right of 516 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: how of how disinformation and information was used relatively successfully 517 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: to get a lot of people to actually move towards 518 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: the more um you know, kind of backed by half 519 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: the state, backed you know, not backed by well the 520 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: larger majority. And yeah, how like it's a it's like 521 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: a synthesis of the fourth generation of fifth generation ideas, 522 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: which is why you know, there's a lot of overlap 523 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: with these terms specifically, Um, but seeing how like one 524 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: leads to another and it's not they're not necessarily inclusion exclusionary. Yeah, 525 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's like the result is whether they win 526 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: or lose. Right, that's that's like that that's what makes 527 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: it a war. Is is the is the is like 528 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 1: you decide afterwards based on the result. Yeah, I mean 529 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: it kind of. Yeah, that's certainly like how more modern 530 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: wars happened, Like with Afghanistan, it wasn't so much like 531 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: a clear like World War One, there's an armistice and 532 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: like negotiated end of the war or in a certain 533 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: date at all ends. It was a lots we haven't 534 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: done that since. We haven't done that for the state, 535 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: Like you know, I've never known the States to do 536 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: that for a month. Because if you don't do that, 537 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: you don't have to admit you lost exactly right, if 538 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: you just kind of like leave and ship gets real 539 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: fucked up. Um, you can just be like for one thing, 540 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: you can say like if we'd stayed and spent more 541 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: money on that war, we could have we could have 542 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: pulled it out. Um, which is one of my like 543 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of great criticisms of how the Biden 544 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: administration handled things in Afghanistan last year, a thousand of them. 545 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's like it 546 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: was never going to be good, like it was always 547 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: it was this horrible war. We were killing way too 548 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: many people. Um, we weren't achieving anything. And that fact 549 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: was made really clear by the fact that as soon 550 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: as we pulled out our guns, um, everything collapsed. And 551 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: that was always going to happen. And you can needle 552 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: around the edges of how we could have, you know, 553 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: better taken care of people who we had made promises 554 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: to or whatever. At the end of the day, it 555 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: was always going to be fucked because it was a 556 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: thing we never should have done. And that's that like 557 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: this idea that Lynd has that like, no, if we 558 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: fix our doctrine, we have better tactical doctrine, we have 559 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: better like we have. One of his big ideas is UM. 560 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: He came up with this concept called movement warfare that's 561 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: been hugely influential in the way the Marine Corps functions. UM. 562 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: And the idea behind movement warfare is like, you should 563 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: always have a bias towards action, and Lynda is very consciously, UM, 564 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: trying to make this basically the evolution of of a 565 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: German tactic called alf drugs tactic, which is like individual 566 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: unit tactics basically. So it's like midway through World War One, 567 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: the Germans start to realize, like, all these mass wave 568 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: human charges aren't working great, um, and we should probably 569 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: like figure out a way to get around these defenses. 570 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: So they start training what are kind of the prototype 571 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: of special forces, these like stormtroopers whose job is to 572 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: like sneak in and not be seen and jump into 573 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: the trenches and like you know, fucking axes and clubs 574 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: and automatic handguns and um, fight in a way that 575 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: like soldiers had not really fought in a long time. 576 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: A lot of it was like may l a. It 577 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: was this really and there were a lot of technical things, 578 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: how to get around barbed wire, how to not be seen, 579 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 1: how to like deal with machine gun nests, um. And 580 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: one of the keys to it was like the German 581 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: started to retrain their soldiers to were like you have 582 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: to have like these individual units of five and ten 583 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: men have to have like total autonomy, and then unit 584 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: commanders have to have autonomy and they need to be 585 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: will able to like we'll tell them we need you 586 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: to be in this this place at this point in time. 587 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: But it's up to you to figure out how to 588 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: do that, because if you're if you've got this one 589 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: guy who's three miles back giving the commands, everyone's just 590 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: gonna get mowed down by machine gun fire. Needs to 591 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: be more nimble UM. And that's part of why in 592 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: World War One, in in World War Two, because the 593 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: rest of the people fighting the Germans, like even the US, 594 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: had not caught up to this kind of battle doctrine 595 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: by the time World War Two was over um to 596 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: the extent that the Germans had, And it's part of 597 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: why there's such a lopsided casualty ratio in favor of 598 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: the Germans in that war is they had what is 599 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: very close to because all modern combat tactics are based 600 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: on what the Germans started doing at the end of 601 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: World War One UM and had really like nailed down 602 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: to a science in World War two. UM And Lynda 603 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: is saying that, like we need to extend that and 604 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: like that's the thing we've gotten too far away from 605 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: and we need to have You need to have like 606 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: this bias towards movement and this the like officers need 607 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: to be super aggressive and like always pursuing these kind 608 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: of kinetic options. And again, as the Marine Corps battle 609 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: record will show, this is very effective when you were 610 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: getting into gunfights. But when was the last time the 611 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: Marine Corps was on the side of a winning war? Like, again, 612 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't we can all needle about how to make 613 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: our troops better at like killing people, but at the 614 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, we're losing wars because we're getting 615 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: into wars that are not winnable and that's not something 616 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: you're going to fix with battle doctrine. And Lynn doesn't 617 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: understand that because he's a fascist. And I think it's 618 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: just like this, this is the real like weakness of 619 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: their politics, which is that was like, yeah, well, like 620 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: it it's they're they're they're trying. It's like they can't 621 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: tell the difference between war and like they don't think 622 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: there's a difference between war and politics, right, and that 623 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: means that they think that there's a military solution to 624 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: every political problem and it's like, no, there's not, and 625 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: like this is this is how this is what is 626 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: how they keep destroying themselves, right, is that they you know, 627 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: like like this is what happened to the neo cons. 628 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, the neo cons is sort of held on 629 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: in this kind of rump shell. But it's like neo 630 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: conservatism and the project. Yeah, but but it's like, you know, 631 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: like they don't they don't have like like even the 632 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: people who used to be their base, like aren't there 633 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: base anymore? Like those those people are all moving yeah 634 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And it's it's it's like maybe they could 635 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: have maintained it if they hadn't just like literally blown 636 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: it apart, like trying to conquer a rock. And it's 637 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: like they all do this. They all eventually are like, well, okay, 638 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: well we'll find a military solution to this, and it 639 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: blows up in their face because it turns out that, no, 640 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: you can't actually do this. I mean, I think all 641 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: this indicates a general progression into the more metapolitics idea 642 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: and culture as politics ideas that we're trying to solve 643 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: all these political problems, like at least like locally within us. 644 00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: You know, we're trying to be trying to do them 645 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: called trually and choosing them in selectively in other countries. Right, 646 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Because the more kind of the idea of like let's 647 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: just keep entering wars, which we're also doing at the 648 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: same time, only for a very very very like like 649 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 1: very specific regions. But I mean the trend of like 650 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: verst you know, like Trump's not necessarily and like Trump's 651 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: not really can anio con He preferred the cultural jamming 652 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: like that was, that was his preferred method, and I 653 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: got him relatively far in four years. And there there's 654 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: an argument that Lynde is a big person who that 655 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: he learned a lot from Lynda, even though I don't 656 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: think he ever read his books. All the people he 657 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: surrounded him with where fans of Lynn. There's a picture 658 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: of Trump and Lend together and like a copy of 659 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: or at least Trump together with a copy of his book, UM, 660 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: which is titled, uh the Next Conservatism UM. And I'm 661 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: gonna read in a quote at this point from The 662 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: American Conservative, which Lynde has written for, that describes this 663 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: book because it's it's uh useful. Um The Next Conservatism 664 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: offers a comprehensive agenda of what Lyndon way Rich, who's 665 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: his co author on this call a cultural called cultural conservatism. 666 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: While the book aims higher than mere policy, the specifics 667 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: mentioned are Trumpian reductions in legal and illegal immigration in America, 668 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: first trade policy, and robust investments and domestic infrastructure, particularly 669 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: street cars and trains in a less Trumpi in Vain. 670 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: It also promotes homeschooling and incorporates some ideas of from 671 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: the New Urbanism as part of a broader program called 672 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: retro Culture. Of its connection with Trump, lynd says the 673 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: book runs parallel to what he has been saying, but 674 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: he doubts the billionaire's familiarity with its more philosophical ideas. 675 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: Now here's the part that is going to be really unsettling, 676 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: and this, I think is what lynd may actually be 677 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: going for, rather than any kind of reform in the 678 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: military to improve its ability to win foreign wars. Quote. 679 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: In nineteen four an article appeared in the Marine Corps 680 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: Gazette by Lynde and two of the authors of the 681 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine piece, where he introduced the concept of 682 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: fourth generation warfare. It ended on a dire note. The 683 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: point is not merely that America's armed forces will find 684 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: themselves facing non nation state conflicts and forces overseas. The 685 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: point is that the same conflicts are coming year the 686 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: next real war we fight is likely to be on 687 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: American soil. So that's what's going on here, Like, and 688 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: that's the thing where biased towards action and increased killing power. 689 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: If all you're really trying to do is murder everyone 690 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: who disagrees with you using the military very quickly, well 691 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: that might work for you. People should know about this. 692 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: He has a fucking fiction book called Victoria, which actually 693 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: if you go to like TV tropes, um, the there's 694 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: a TV it's not just TV tropes anymore, but like 695 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: there's a trope page from my book After the Revolution, 696 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: and it's directly compared to Victoria, as like they're the 697 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: opposites of each other, because Victoria is like a book 698 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: about a civil war in the US that these like 699 00:35:54,520 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: weird fascist uh like anarchists win, and like it's, uh, 700 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: it's pretty fucked up. Like the problem is that like 701 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: like like all of these like the Northwest is controlled 702 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: by like environmentalists like leaders who get like eaten by 703 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: these animals like wolves that they reintroduced to the to 704 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 1: the society, and like California is so feminist that it's 705 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: illegal to have sex and make babies, um, and the 706 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: South fails because it's it's too multicultural, um And yeah, 707 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: like it's it's all so the person who wins the 708 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: war is like the governor of Maine who's a retro 709 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 1: culture practitioner um and considers himself a subject of the kaiser. 710 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: I maybe getting a couple of details wrong, but not 711 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: that part I know. But it's it's a fucking nuts 712 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: nuts So I've only read like little bits of it. 713 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: Maybe one day I'll get through the whole thing. But 714 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 1: it's that's that's the thing with all with all of 715 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: these like cultural gamers, Like they try to put on 716 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: like war aesthetics, but all of them are the nerdiest 717 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: fuckers he'll ever. He's so stupid and I like he's 718 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: wi all these guys are so they're so nerdy, all 719 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, and like lynd everything about him makes 720 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: sense when you understand that his primary guiding directive is 721 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: anger over the fact that there's no longer a kaiser Um. 722 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: He's a little but also like again, he was not 723 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: lying about there's a picture of like Trump of this 724 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: fucking book. He's not lying that Like fucking everybody who 725 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: was like pilled in that White House knew about Lynn's 726 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: ideas and have been He's been hugely influential, and not 727 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: just among like the American right. His books have been 728 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: found in like al Qaeda hideouts and ship like. He 729 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: makes sense though that that that that like all of 730 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: all of that really tracks is because yeah, like the 731 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: barrier between like terrorist action as a part of fourth 732 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: generation and in some ways fifth generation warfare and then 733 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: the type of like culture jamming, those things go hand 734 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: in hand like that is like that is the goal 735 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: of it is to make it work that way. So 736 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't surprise me that those types of terrorist groups 737 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: would be reading its books for advice so or for 738 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: like to like figure out how the other side thinks. Alright, well, 739 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: that's probably enough talking about william S lind for today 740 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: and and cultural and the fourth generation, we'll talk. There's 741 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: a lot to dig into about how these ideas have 742 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: influenced chunks of the right, and now they're currently still 743 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: being used for like these omnipresent conflicts that are going 744 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: on right now. And again I do think particularly the 745 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: idea of omnipresence is really useful for understanding modern conflict. 746 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: I would I would go as far as to say, 747 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: like crucial um so this is necessary background information to 748 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: people to have, for people to have for like some 749 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: of the other ship. We're going to be continuing to 750 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: talk in this about in this series as we you know, 751 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: as we talk more about kind of kinetic conflicts or 752 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: at least building towards kinetic conflicts. Um. But yeah, I 753 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: think this is this is a useful kind of grounding. 754 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: And now I'm going to send Chris and Garrison off 755 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 1: to write an episode explaining who Hegel is and everything 756 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: he believed. I Yeah, it's gonna be great. You're gonna 757 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: You're gonna hear you. You will watch me go mad 758 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: in real time. It's gonna be great. Yeah. The other 759 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: option is I can just read the Wikipedia page for 760 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: Hegel with like a really offensive German accent. That's better 761 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: than that, Actually better. I'm gonna go to I promise 762 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: you one thing, which is that I will wind up 763 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: either Russian or Australian by the end. I can't stop 764 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: that drift when I whenever I start doing you know, 765 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: I am a good German. Yeah, my name is Mr Hegel. 766 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: The absolute that happen Cool Zone Media. We're gonna stop 767 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: that right now. I probably should. It could Happen Here 768 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: is a production of cool zone Media. More podcasts from 769 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 770 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 771 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 772 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: find sources for It could happen here, updated monthly at 773 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.