1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Favorites, the podcast from the Action Network. 2 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: I am Chad Melnid along with my co host black 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Jack Fletcher. Boy, did we to pick a good day 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: to record? Did uh stuff going on? Today? Black Jack 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: has already held my hand and kissed it as if 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: I was royalty. Um, yeah, I mean it's a high 7 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: school girl and kind of price slabberds and chew juice 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: on him. Well, you know, I've got a lip in 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: and uh, a little bit of vodka and lemon saltzer. 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: So it's a delightful. So listen Tuesday afternoon. That's great. Listen. Uh. 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: In a few minutes, we're gonna bring on David Hill, 12 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: who wrote probably the best, the best narrative sports betting 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: story we've seen this year, without doubt. He wrote it 14 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: for The Ringer. Uh, and it's got like all the 15 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: cinematic epic landscape turns that a great story has about 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: a modern day better about the world that's changing before him, 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: about how he came to the world that he exists 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: in today. It's brilliant. It's on the Ringer dot com. 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: Everyone should go check it out. Just google David Hill, 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: The Ringer and Spanky and you'll find it. But first 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: up worldwide web, Mr ro Perez of the Action Network, 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: it's going on, brother, anything out from last night? I 23 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: don't know, christ I am. I am a tornado emotions. 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about the big headline of the day, 25 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: Rob Kevin Durant's on his way to New York right now? 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: Does he leave here without signing a contract? I am 27 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: my understanding from from people I spoke to her last 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: night is this changes nothing in terms of Durants getting contracts. 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: Some other teams and there are the specific team in 30 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: New York who will go unnamed. That is a history 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: of signing superstars with very drastic injuries to their knees 32 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: without insurance policies a k. The New York Knicks. So 33 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: nothing's gonna change. Like for Durant, he's gonna get if 34 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to get a max offer from the 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Warriors before he sures, and I was gonna get it 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: now because he saw how bad Bob Buyers and the 37 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: front office felt. So this is gonna change nothing for him. 38 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: But there are some names out there that I've always 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: kind of spoken to this. I've never seen anyone come 40 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: back from a point Achilles A hundred percent, whether it's 41 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: pretty gay, Kobe Bryant, Felton brand Westmkins Momento, per I 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: could keep going here. Um, I would be surprised if 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: he's ever as good as he was. And that's really 44 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: tough to say. It sucks, but the truth rob that 45 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: that number one I think makes him more likely to 46 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: become a nick as you said, but um does is 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: there any thought that maybe he doesn't opt out, that 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: maybe he opts into the last year and rehabs this 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: in Golden State. I thought about this, and I brought 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: themself last night. And the only way, the only reason 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: why he would opt in is to purely spite the warriors. Uh, 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: if that's his his feeling in his five Because if 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: you opt in, you occupy thirty one million dollars in 54 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: cap space which they can't use to go out there 55 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: and supplement Draymond in Clay because they're gonna need that 56 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: that cap space. He would bring back or someone in 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: there to help those guys, because he's got to get 58 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: paid too. He's an im restrictive free agent. Now. If 59 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: the option he takes up that space and then he 60 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: just pieces out after his Achilles heels but since he's 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: gonna be getting those max contracts from pretty much every 62 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: other team in the league, you have to imagine that 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: it's just not a smart business decision not to take 64 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: one of those. So U in a chaotic world, he 65 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: could certainly think about it. I just don't think it's realistic. 66 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: Do you think the Brooklyn Nets in any way get 67 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: involved here? The Brooklyn Nets are gonna be players regardless, 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: and if if the rumors are true that they're really 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: in on Kyrie Irving, we know how great of a 70 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: friendship to Pyrie and Kevin Durant have, so I honestly, 71 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: after last night, all bets are off. I can even 72 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: transmit that I had some said knowledge that he was 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: going to go to the Clippers Kevin Durant, but that's 74 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: all out the window now and it's completely irrelevant because 75 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: everything's changed. Seems to Worth Achilles like everything's out the 76 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: window and not a single person, including Kevin Durant, knows 77 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: what he's doing. I think he's more focused on just 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: getting right first, and uh he was a go from there. 79 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: But it's certainly looking forward to July is now it's 80 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: a complete wild card, even more than it was in 81 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: the past. What do you mean he was going to 82 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: go to the Clippers. From what I heard, the Clippers 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: were the front runner to get Kevin Durant. That's all. 84 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: But that information, whether it's true or not, it doesn't 85 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: matter anymore. All right. So you made a good point 86 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: about all the players who have had torn achilles and 87 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: and come back as less than what they were. What 88 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: is a less than what he was Kevin Durant in 89 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: terms of value a team in the league. Uh, well, 90 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: that's my question. You know, he he in my opinion, 91 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: he was the best. Like that's why this stups so much, 92 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: because he had finally offended to being the best basketball 93 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: player on earth. I think unanimously, will the Father time 94 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: is to Lebron a little bod He's count in the 95 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: playoffs and just seeing what the ranted to the Rockets. 96 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: Uh in that first round series against the Clippers, like 97 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: there was a feeling that this is the guy now, 98 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: like this is one day. However it was Labron one 99 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: A to rant one B. I think you can argue 100 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: that they flipped this postseason. And as soon as he 101 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: goes down with an injury at this Marymontude, Uh, can 102 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: he come back to the top ten player most I'm 103 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: not going to adult the man, so yeah, absolutely, but 104 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: it's just hard for me to believe he can return 105 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: and be at that same level that he was at. 106 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: But he's certainly worth a max contract, don't get me wrong. 107 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: And he's gonna be one of the guys that if 108 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: he's on your team, you're guaranteed to be a championship contender. 109 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: I just don't know if he's going to be in 110 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: the stratosphere of greatest players of all time for an 111 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: extended period because the Achilles injury is just so drastic. Now, 112 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: rob let's let's shift our focus here to this series 113 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: a little bit. It's now three two, heading back to Oracle. 114 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: It feels to me a little bit like Toronto. Let 115 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: Freddy Krueger get up off the mat here and that 116 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: that feels like a mistake, Like Chad and I were 117 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: talking about it on the way over here. It almost 118 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: feels like like this is going seven now, Like I 119 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: can't imagine Golden State losing this on their home court. 120 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: How do you see game six? The comparison Freddy Krueger 121 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: things pretty accurate. You know, it's the hardest punched. The 122 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: throw is the knockout right. There was a point in 123 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: that game when they're jabbing a little bit. By the 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: time they got to the point quarter they're putting her clothes, 125 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: they able to put the close up anymore. They were 126 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: just throwing shot for shot and pull. Somebody dropped. It 127 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: felt like the end of Rocky for there that you're 128 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: gonna do it, but it didn't actually happen. You know 129 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: that that was the vibes I was getting. There's a 130 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: game of throwing reference. Nobody running around the mountain celebrating, 131 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: demanding that the mountain admit that he did that to 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: assist in the mountain grabs himid smashes his face, and 133 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, we could dis similars and analogies all day here, 134 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: but for me, just the first and foremost, it was 135 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: one of the biggest holy ship moments that I've seen 136 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: in the finals, probably since the Lebron Jr. Last year 137 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Lebron performance. This is up there in terms of gutsiest 138 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: performances of all the time from a team with Durant 139 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: going down and then blowing the lead and coming back 140 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: from it like getting off the matt down six after 141 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: Kwiet giving these two bunkets for ten straight minutes and 142 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: it was like, this is it, It's gonna happen, and 143 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: this team just never It's unreal. And now that they 144 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: have to go back to Oracle, I'm still in the 145 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: camp with the Rappids are gonna win this game recordless. 146 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: But you had it. You had as good a chance 147 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: to knock them off as anyone has ever had, sincilbroun In, 148 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: I am so torn. Like suddenly, to me, Clay and 149 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: Staff are sympathetic figures because they're they're doing it for 150 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: in a throwback way, which makes it seem like the 151 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: teams that they played on were so much worse than 152 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: than they actually were, because now they're carrying a team 153 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: that actually just isn't as deep as it was back then. 154 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: But like, I feel like them doing it without Durant 155 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: makes them someone that I'm cheering so hard for. On 156 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: the flip side, I love Nick Nurse. I love his story, 157 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: I love where he's come from. I love the fact 158 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: he had this team up three one. I will feel 159 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: sick to my stomach for him if he ends up 160 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: losing this series. And seven, I love the narrative of Kauai. 161 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: Is he gonna stay or go? If he brings this 162 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: town of championship, does he then sort of leave it 163 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: behind there? The narratives right now are amazing and it's 164 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: messing with my betting head. There's a lot of heart 165 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: over brain going on here. I I'll tell you this that, 166 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: just to play double advocate for you for a second, 167 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: no one's gonna feel badtable worst. They still technically have 168 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: five All Stars in their teams with this final MVP, 169 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: so there should be no excuses even with Al Durant book. 170 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: The performance that we just saw from Stephen Clay last 171 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: night that the entire continent, not even country of the 172 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: United States, the continent of North America knew exactly what 173 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: they were going through doing the three minutes. I gotta 174 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: run off all screens for Clay is stuff Laker's cousins 175 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: and standing under the room wide open, and nobody hears 176 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: because Stephan Clay are shooting those basketball They're going down 177 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: swinging with the brothers with the entire country of Kada 178 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: inside of their shirts. They were still getting up those 179 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: threes in making them and just completely normalizing these egregious, 180 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: unfathomable clutch three point shots that they have never missed 181 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: since the beginning of this dynasty. So they're gonna build 182 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: the statues outside of Oracle in the Chase Center in 183 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: San Francisco next year. I hope it is step and 184 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: play shooting together with seven or eight offenders around them, 185 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: because after last night, it's that type of performance. And 186 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: I am always going to remember the Golden State Warriors 187 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: by not not that the ran dominants over the cast 188 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: and the sweeps, all that they caught up on that 189 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: and they went to arguably one of the best backcourts 190 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: in NBA history, with the whole world knowing, telegraphing knowledge 191 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: of what was going to happen. And it's still be 192 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: that right there, winner lose to find the Warrior's legacy 193 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: for me, is there is there a road for the 194 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: Warriors to win these next two games other than Steph 195 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: and Clay like going for thirty seven apiece. I think 196 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: really need the Marcus Cousins. You know, he's so frustrating 197 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: because they had flashes in that game pod We're like, 198 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 1: he's backed. Finally, that's the book you we need and 199 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: then it gets the spotlight. It's really bright there in 200 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter and the Marks Cousins isn't even looking 201 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: at the wind to shoot, and Andre and Draymond are 202 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: just drilling around trying to get step and play open. 203 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: And for all of those years, Book was notorious for 204 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: being a ballhog in the spots like how do you 205 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: not get your teammates involved? Now it's the complete opposite. 206 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: So we need to kind a happy media mere with 207 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: Boogie if they're gonna have a chance because Steph and 208 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: Clay for gutting that performance. Doubt they can't do that 209 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: for another nineties six minutes, which is two more games. 210 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: They they won't even win the game at Oracle if 211 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: they have to rely on that type of performance from 212 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: Stephan Clay, it's not humanly possible. They can do it 213 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: and clutch, you know, clut spurts down the stretch. But 214 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: we saw what happened when Clay came out of the 215 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: game at the end of the third quarter. Nick Nurse 216 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: didn't even do a boxing one this time. He went 217 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: to a triangle in too. He has zero respect for 218 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: the Jordan Bills, the diret Goes and anyone not named 219 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: Steph and Clay because are honestly none of them will shoot. 220 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't play a normal defense either, and it's 221 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: up to boogie, is my opinion. Let let me ask 222 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: you this, though, it seems the one guy who is 223 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: willing to shoot on that team is Quinn Cook. I mean, 224 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: is it worthwhile for the Warriors to maybe give him 225 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: some more run at the expensive Iguidala because like you 226 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: said that, but but I mean, Chad, they're not They're 227 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: willing to let Igwadala and Dreymond Green take ten threes 228 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: a game and make three between the two of them. 229 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: Is it worth letting another shooter out there just to 230 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: create some spacing? Your your assessment there is not only 231 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: true that it's like three out of ten between the 232 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: two of them, but it's exactly what Jef van Gundy 233 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: was alluding to their down the stretch that Iguadallo had 234 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: a wide open, like eighteen footer on a pull up. 235 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: But that's not Igwadala's game. You know, he's a catching 236 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: shoot kind of guy. Uh, And he went out there 237 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: and just he almost broke the backboard. He missed so bad. 238 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: So to you sacrifice what he gives you on the 239 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: defensive side of the ball for Quinn Cook, you better 240 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: pray to God that Quinn Cook has that game too. 241 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: I think you know Team two and he has that 242 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: national championship game that he had Burduke because this team 243 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: was king destroyed on the class Abaca. This all in Kauai. 244 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: Unless that ball shaped off the rim, there was not 245 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: a chance in hell Warriors or going you can rebound. 246 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: And the fact that we're having this conversation about the 247 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: Warriors that they're not the ones with the advantage of 248 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: every category is yet another true testiment to the Raptors 249 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: are simply just a better team without Durant on the 250 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: Warriors they are. They flip the narrative completely that you 251 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: could never out Warriors the Warriors in the past. Well, 252 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: the Raptors are making the Warriors play the style of 253 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: the way that they play in the half courts set, 254 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: and they're going to get out on you in transition 255 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: off turnovers. That's what the Warriors made their name off, 256 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: that's what their dynasty legacy is built around, and that 257 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the Raptors have just clept up that from them is 258 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: truly remarkable. So right now the game opened it four 259 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: and a half, it's been beat down to three Golden 260 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: State minus three. I'm looking in the Action Network gap, 261 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: which is Blackjack free free to download. Go download it. 262 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: The money is coming in on Toronto, largely public money. 263 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I want to wait and hit 264 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: that number when it gets a little bit lower and 265 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: buy me some Warriors. Wow, what am I doing well? 266 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: I mean, for the same reasons why I personally I 267 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: had the Lawyers in Game five, even in Toronto, despite 268 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: having the Raptors for the series. I thought they were 269 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: gonna play with a lot of nervous energy at home, 270 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: and I thought the Warriors were gonna get out quick 271 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: on them, is what I said. And you know, whether 272 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: that was true or not, the nervous energy affected them. 273 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: It did. And this is gonna be the last game 274 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: ever played at Lotcal Arena. It's gonna be emotional. You 275 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: think of any narrative you can come up with. The 276 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: Warriors have lost two games in this series at home. 277 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: They've lost multiple games against the Clippers and Rockets at home. 278 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: And I don't know if Oracle Arena has the same 279 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: power this like fully armed in operational battlestation from Star 280 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: Wars that it has in the past. So if we're 281 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: factoring in home court advantage, here is it worth four points? 282 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: You know, probably still on paper and the Warriors are 283 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: gonna be vibing like they always do with that crowdacy. 284 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: But the fact remains to me that over the course 285 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: of a forty eight man it James said this, it's 286 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: not a point where many games is not one had 287 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: done much his and works madness. We're simply too many 288 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: possessions for me to believe that Stephan Clay can do 289 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: that again. I do think the Raptors called it out 290 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: and again, and I can't believe I'm saying this. It's 291 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: because they're better. Wow. Wow, it's just stunning to hear 292 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: after the dominance this team has had sustained over all 293 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: these years, to hear to hear you say that that 294 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: the Raptors are just better, and I know you're you're right. 295 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: It's just I have such a hard time rob betting 296 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: against those two guys in this spot. I don't know 297 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: what it is that's short of a number. I'm going 298 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: to assume this two days rest. This number shrinks with 299 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: two days I think you're right. I think it will 300 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: drop with two days rest. At home the last game 301 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: in that building. Everything in my body tells me Golden 302 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: State wins this game. He's not wrong about the possessions though, 303 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: like look at that game last night. Yeah, there are 304 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: there are. There are a lot of reasons the bad 305 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: Golden State. So I don't think there's a bad debt 306 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: he artcause being honestly, because I can make cases for 307 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: both teams and if there's a day that can ever 308 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: avalanche into a pretty point when it just wipe the 309 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: late waste to their opponents listening to the gold State. 310 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: Whereas even without him to rant, we have to remember 311 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: that the Toronto Draphers have the best player on the 312 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: floor by far. They have a nuclear weapon that cannot stops, 313 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: and he is dominating at both ends. And if they 314 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: just get one mate shot at a Kyle Lowry or 315 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: Pascal Siako, I did they didn't get that in game five? 316 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: You have to assume that because the zig zag theory 317 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of happened here with the performances from the 318 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: guys like Seaco and Lowry, that they're gonna eventually make 319 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: shots again. And then what happens. Are you praying at 320 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: a Kuai game that cos a somewhat quiet because even 321 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: if he's nas shoot and well, he's able to accomminate 322 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: the game in the other place, like we saw last 323 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: night with his offensive, rebounding and just keeping possessions alive. 324 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Any suction cup steals when the Warriors are trying to 325 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: get out the transition, there's so many he waits for 326 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: him to just put his mark on there and I 327 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: can't bet against that. I'm sorry, rob Let. Let me 328 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: just ask you this. We talked a lot about the 329 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: Warriors mindset after Durant, you know, the injury and all that. 330 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: What is Toronto's mindset like right now? Because they had 331 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: a championship literally within their grasp at home, it was there, 332 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: They led the game six points down the stretch, they 333 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: had a chance to win it on the last possession. 334 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: How does that affect them going forward? Knowing all of 335 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: the postseason failures this team has had in the past, 336 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: obviously without Kawhi Leonard, But how does it affect the 337 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: rest of that team? I would say it's as close 338 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: to theroow as possible, But the demons of the Raptors 339 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: past are dead. Just because there's differences wearing this this uniform. 340 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: I understand it has Raptors on the front, but all 341 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: those to Marduros and days of choking Lebron, No nobody 342 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: cares about toes and I got the vibe after Paying 343 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: four when that Raptors team was reportedly in the locker 344 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: room not even celebrating, or some only just not saying 345 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: a word. They know the series is and over or 346 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: even close to being over. And I think they have 347 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: the same building after after Game five. Do they know 348 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: they missed an opportunity? Yeah, they're all human. Uh, they 349 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: understand that it was right there on the dust and 350 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: that really sucks. But I'm going to Oracle thinking I'm 351 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: playing and still playing with house money here because even 352 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: if we lose, we get another opportunity to redeem ourselves. 353 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: And the third facet of this all is they haven't 354 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: played well at home either all all postseason. They've all 355 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: said first game to Orlando, they lose first games of 356 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: the series at home all the time. And they've been 357 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: playing better on the road all years, so they may 358 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: feel more comfortable not having all of that pressure of 359 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: Canada and all of that nervous energy in front of 360 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: those fans. It's proven that they can play better without 361 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: that presence there, so it may be an advantage from 362 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: them going on the road. And quote hostile atmosphere isn't 363 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: their own supporters. Alright, worldwide, We thanks so much for 364 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: coming on the podcast. The good news is one more game. 365 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: We have one more game to talk about at least, 366 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: which we're gonna do. Thanks man, Thank you, Jesus. Thanks 367 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: guys joining us now on the podcast. David Hill, writer 368 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: wrote a story for The Ringer that is really about, um, 369 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: the world of sports betting today and what professional sports 370 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: bettors are confronting and underneath it all sort of how 371 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: the industry is evolving and what this means for all 372 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: of us, both as sports fans and then more more 373 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: sort of myopically as sports people in the sports betting industry. 374 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, uh. David, welcome, great job in the story. 375 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: Thanks uh. The centerpiece of the story is a character 376 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: named Spanky, who's a professional better use their real name. No, 377 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: he uses his real name in the story. It's his nickname. 378 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: He was a chat Oh. Because you don't use your 379 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: real name, it is you're like a circus clown. David, 380 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: answer the question, please, I don't know. I'll try. I um, 381 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: you know. I originally reached out to Spanky to write 382 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: a much more kind of pedestrian story. I wanted to 383 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: um just watched the Super Bowl with UM, like a 384 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: big sports better in New Jersey and one of the 385 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: sports books and kind of write something about, um, what's 386 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: you know about the industry in New Jersey and how 387 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: I had grown over the last six months or however 388 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: many months it had been at that point, and he 389 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: was like, I'm not gonna watch the super Bowl. I 390 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: don't watch the super Bowl. So UM we just kept 391 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: talking and UM he had this. He started talking to 392 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: me about some of what he's seen in the industry. 393 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: And the more we talked, the more I realized that 394 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: there was a deeper story there. And so I spent 395 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: a few months kind of hanging out with him and 396 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: his crew and UM, going back and forth Atlantic City 397 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: and UM and uh, learning what I could about him 398 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: in his life and uh in the industry today. Why 399 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: do you think, uh he let you follow him? Well, 400 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: I think he you see it in the story a 401 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: little bit too. Like he once he kind of decided that, UM, 402 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to get to betnywhere in New Jersey, 403 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: and UM, Mike had this idea that they used social 404 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: media to try to like one of the guys on 405 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: his team. Yeah, and UM they stayed sort of went 406 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: on Twitter and started posting these videos of him getting 407 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, backed off at all these um sports books, 408 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: and that was picking up some traction, and I think 409 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: he realized that, um, he didn't have much to lose 410 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: by kind of being more public and that um, he 411 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: had a lot of leverage over them, the books, who 412 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: I think had a lot more to lose from bad publicity. 413 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: I mean, every bad thing that could happen to Spanky's 414 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: already happened to him, you know. I mean he got arrested, 415 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: he had all his money taken away from him. You know, 416 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: he's had a lot of you know, so at this 417 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: point he's, um, he sort of sees this as a 418 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: hail Mary pass um to try to change something in 419 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: the industry. You say that, um, you know he's doing 420 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: this to try to h to to force some some 421 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: leverage against the casinos for for them not taking his bets. 422 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean, just objectively, what is the what is the 423 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: chief complaint there? I mean, it's it's a private business. 424 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: They can serve where they choose to serve. Yeah, it is, 425 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: It's true. And uh, I think one of the things 426 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: I heard from one thing that gamblers would say over 427 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: and over to me was it's so Unamerican what they're doing. 428 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: And I always kind of laugh at that because it 429 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: feels to me like it's the most American thing ever. Right, 430 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: like the idea of saying like, hey, I'm I'm trying 431 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: to make a buck here, I'm not trying to give 432 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: my money to you, so you can't you can't bet 433 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: with me. But um, But what I do think resonates 434 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: with people is that it, um, it seems unfair and 435 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: it's unfair and kind of a in in more ways 436 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: than it's not unfair in like a silly way, it's 437 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: unfair and a really concrete way. And the one thing 438 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: that was sort of there were two things that I 439 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: think we're really really kind of meaningful to me as 440 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: someone from the outside looking in. The first is that 441 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: a sharp player, Um, a sharp player has information right 442 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: that's about able to the book, and the book gets 443 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: to buy that as cheaply as they want, right, Because 444 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: when you go to make a bet, they can say, well, 445 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: you tell them what you want to bet, and then 446 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: they tell you how much you can bet for. So 447 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: they're buying your information cheap and you don't get an 448 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: opportunity to walk, they already know what you're trying to bet. 449 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: So sometimes they can deny you a bet and they 450 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: get your information for free, and then they can move 451 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: off that information without taking the action. To me, that 452 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: seems like that should be that's completely unfair. Sure. The 453 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: second thing that I thought was compelling was that, um, 454 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, people are people who are um good at 455 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: this want to believe that they can make a living 456 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: at it, and you can't. And I think that the 457 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: marketing around the marketing around sports betting is something that 458 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: you can win at, something that you can be good at. 459 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: You know that you can be a handicapper and you 460 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: can you know, pick games whatever. That that's that there's 461 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, there's something untrue about that if the rules 462 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: are that the book can deny you if they think 463 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: you're a winning players. So I think that like like 464 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that Rufus Peabody says in the 465 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: story is that, um, you know, in Vegas used to 466 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 1: be their house limits posted and so if you were 467 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: like some if you were like Bruce Willis or some 468 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: thin or you were like some you know, Floyd Mayweather, 469 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: you could bet anything you wanted. You know what I mean, 470 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: You could bet the farm, but for everybody else walking 471 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: in there were posted limits. And that was the same 472 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: whether you were sharp or whether you were just a sucker. Right, 473 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: but you had posted limits. You knew what your limit 474 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: was before you walked up. That sharp is not going 475 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: to get cheated because they know what they're going to 476 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: get to bet before they go in there and give 477 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: that information to the book. So to me, that really 478 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: that resonated. This is a you know, I think my 479 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: original title for the piece was Requiem for a Bookmaker, 480 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: not Requiem for a sports better, because I actually think 481 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: that what the story is telling is that bookmakers or 482 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: would have died out right, not sports better, so that 483 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: we don't really have bookmakers anymore. We just we just 484 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: had these like trading desk, these like kind of finance 485 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, finance capital type companies, and um, what we 486 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: don't have is somebody who's hanging a number, offering a 487 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: bet and saying, here's a bet. Who wants the other 488 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: side of it, Let's let's make a bet. That doesn't exist. 489 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: It's just people who want to enter into a contract 490 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: where they have all of the language and the contract. 491 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: And so I thought that you know, made to me, 492 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: and I don't. Look, I don't want to be too 493 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: romantic about it, but I think there is something a 494 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: little romantic about this idea of like a bet being 495 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: bet between two parties having you know, it's like we 496 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 1: both entered into an agreement and we're going to make 497 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: this bet and one of us will win and the 498 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: other one will lose. Um. I think that, like, that's 499 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: the way that people told me it used to be, 500 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: and it's not that way anymore. And I think the 501 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: only reason it's not that way anymore is because these 502 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: companies are trying to, you know, squeeze every bit of 503 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: blood out of the stone that they can get. It 504 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: used to be. I have so many thoughts on what 505 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: you just said. Uh, it used to be a more, 506 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, gentlemanly game. Even when 507 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: people were killing each other literally, there was sort of 508 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: a code that made it feel romantic. Uh. You quoted 509 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: Joe Lubo in the story who I know really well 510 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: and who was a character of mine in the book 511 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: I wrote about all this like twenty years ago, and 512 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: uh he uh, he sort of captured the spirit of 513 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: what I think is at the heart of this dilemma, 514 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: which is I'm happy to take your bet. I'll take 515 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: one hit, I'll find what you're doing, I'll let you 516 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: bet big, and then I'm moving on. Um. But he's 517 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: pretty old school, and I think what is happening now 518 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: was these bookmakers are actually just catching up to the 519 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: rest of the casino business right as the potential for 520 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: the volume has become bigger. The idea behind the casinos 521 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: is we want people who do risk management, and risk 522 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: management to us means increasing profitability and minimizing risk. And 523 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: so they're not interested in sort of the spirit of 524 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: the way the game used to be. They want to 525 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: run it the way they want slots, the way they well, 526 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, originally like people that you know, street bookies 527 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: or whatever, they were gambling, right, they were gamblings. They 528 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: weren't balanced, you know what I mean. They took me 529 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: they actually couldn't they are. And even when they sort 530 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: of moved into Nevada and we're booking legally in Nevada. 531 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: You know. I quote Vix Learner on the piece. He's 532 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: the guy that started LeRoy's and he said we were 533 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: gambling all the time. He said there was a you know, 534 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: the in the during the um hag Learns fight. I 535 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: My whole business was on the line of that fight, 536 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: you know. UM. Once they were able to move into 537 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: the casinos, UM when the when the taxes sort of 538 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: changed in Nevada, casinos treated sports books as an amenity, right. 539 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't a part of their bottom line. They understood 540 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: that this is the riskiest part of our business. We 541 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: might even lose money in here, but this is an 542 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: amenity we offer for customers to come in and play 543 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: in our casino and spend money in other ways. And 544 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: so there wasn't a lot of pressure on them. I 545 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: think the problem now is that states that are legalizing UM, 546 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: you know, in regulating bookmaking now, they the states want 547 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: so much tax they see this as they want so 548 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: much tax revenue that there's almost like you have to 549 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: guarantee a certain edge that may be as harder to guarantee. 550 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: You can't look at it as an amenity if it's 551 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: a standalone thing, if it's not just a piece of 552 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: a larger gaming property, UM or if you're not or 553 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: if you're not running a sports but you're not running 554 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: your book as a gambler willing to take a risk, 555 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: or even as you know, even as um a traitor 556 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: if you want to use that language UM instead. I 557 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: think there's too much pressure on them to to um 558 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: bring back too high of a percentage. And so that's 559 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: why I think we're seeing these kind of buzz saw tactics. 560 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: And you bring up a great point because as more 561 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: states legalize it, you're seeing some states get really crazy 562 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: with with the taxation on it. I mean Rhode Island 563 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: for example, I think tax to which I mean, you know, 564 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: Chad sports books. The margins are so when you tax 565 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: at that percentage, I mean you're going to eventually have 566 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: states I think that that this wine's up failing in. 567 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: I mean, what what do you think about that? Do 568 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: you think that we will have a rush to legalize 569 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: and then some states kind of back out and say, look, 570 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: this isn't working. I think that if a state doesn't 571 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: have the liquidity, you know, they don't have volume or 572 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: whatever UM, and the tax rate is too high, they're 573 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: gonna disappointed at what they bring back. So Rhode Islands 574 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a state a good example where I think they're bringing 575 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: back some pitiful amount back to the states. So the 576 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: voters or the state legislators are gonna look at and say, oh, 577 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: we don't really make anything off of this. The business 578 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: may survive there, but it's not going to be what 579 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: the state thought it would. I think New Jerseys proving 580 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: that they're gonna do fine. But they have they have 581 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: such a huge market of people too, and they have 582 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: so many different business you know, companies competing there. Um. 583 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: I think it, Uh, the tax rates will start to 584 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: all sort of if we do this nationwide, the law 585 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: get to be the same in every state, you know 586 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: what I mean, But for for a minute now, it's 587 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: gonna be really weird where every state is going to 588 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: have a different situation. Alright. So you spent all this 589 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: time with Spanky and there's sort of a great through 590 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: line in the story where he's basically using you as 591 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: a runner. Uh, and you're going to make as many bets. 592 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: You know, if you can get ten times down, you'll 593 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: get ten times. You end up getting five. Take listeners 594 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: through the process of what it's like going to the 595 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: counter with that brick of cash and trying to make bets, 596 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: and how the bookmakers are responding to you. I mean, 597 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: it was stressful for me. You know, I've got this 598 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: guy who I barely know. I have a bag for 599 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: his money, and like, if you know, I can't let 600 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: that bag disappear or I might disappear, right, So I'm 601 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm definitely nervous about that part of it. But um, 602 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: and this is Atlantic City, you know what I mean. 603 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I love Atlantic City. But let's be real, right, 604 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, people will get you for a 605 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: lot less. So you know, it was, Um, I think 606 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: the book immediately. Um, the manager of sports book, I 607 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: think he knew exactly what the deal was right away. 608 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: That's what I think. I think he knew that I was. 609 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: You know, Um, I mean he'd never met me before. 610 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: I've never been in there before, and here I am 611 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 1: showing up and saying, hey, I'm in a bit ten 612 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: thousand and game. I'm sure I'm not the first person 613 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: to come through and do the In fact, I'd seen 614 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: other guys while I was in the book come through 615 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: with backpacks full of money and make a bunch of 616 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,239 Speaker 1: bets and lead probably head into the next book down 617 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: the boardwalk, you know. So I think there's quite a 618 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: bit of that going on in New Jersey anyway. Um, 619 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: But it was funny, like you know, when they put 620 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: your money into the little money counter and it he goes, 621 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: do you know everybody's heads turn? You know what I mean? 622 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: It's really true. Like the whole casino. I feel like 623 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: everybody's heads turn when they hear that sound, and they're like, 624 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: what's going on over there? So but the UM, what 625 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: was interesting to me was I got limited real quick, 626 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: like second bet I made, and UM the teller, the 627 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: tellers at this book at the ocean, they were blown 628 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: away by it. And this was over two days, and 629 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: every time I got a new teller, it was the 630 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: same thing all over again. Whether they're like I've never 631 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,479 Speaker 1: seen this before. I don't understand what they're doing to you. Um, 632 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, we take bets bigger than this all the time, 633 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: Like what's going on? You know? I think the manager, 634 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: least one of the days, the manager, I think knew 635 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: what was up. But for most part, the employees felt 636 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: like they hadn't seen a lot of seeing somebody get 637 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: limited so so much so quickly. Um. But you know, 638 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: I just shrugged my shoulders. I was just playing the part. 639 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: I was like, Man, I don't know, you know, I 640 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: guess they think I'm gonna win. I don't know what 641 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: they limit you to. Well, the first the first bet 642 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: I made was five thousand dollars and in the second 643 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: bet they limited me to a thousand, but that was 644 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: for um. That was for a total um for sides. 645 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: I was able to still bet five thousand for a 646 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: little bit, and then they they dropped me down to 647 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: a thousand across the board and uh, do you think 648 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: they recognize you were betting for Spanky or you? They 649 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: just thought he's playing for somebody. Well, the thing is, 650 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: when we say they, I mean the folks in Atlantic City, 651 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: they had no say in it. They punched the bed 652 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: into a computer, and then there's a trading office in 653 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and then trading offices the bet and they'd 654 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: make a determination. So they're looking at the number, they're 655 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: looking at what the game is. They look at my name, 656 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: but see, I got nothing on me, you know what 657 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: I mean. They may have googled me and saw that 658 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: I've written I write about gambling, and maybe they thought, okay, 659 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: maybe that played into it somehow, but but for the 660 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: most part, I'm I've got so there's no way they 661 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: connected me to a particular player. I think they figured 662 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: the actions sharp because it's like well, if he's bet 663 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: in this game, he's trying to bet you know whatever, 664 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: three thou dollars on the Lakers, and then thirty minutes 665 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: later we find out that Lebron is out. You know, 666 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: then you're marked right away as a sharp player. So 667 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: I wish there would have been more about his wife 668 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: and their relationship in the story. Uh, And I wondered 669 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: if you spoke to her. I didn't speak to her, 670 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: but it does seem to me like they have a 671 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: pretty strong relationship. Um. You know, they're they're still together, 672 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: they have they have four kids. They you know, they 673 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: vacation a lot. They think they have a pretty rich, 674 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: you know, family life. Um, he's pretty close with his family. 675 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: We did talk a little bit about how after he 676 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: got arrested, how when he decided to go back to work, 677 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 1: he had to kind of process process that with her, 678 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: and that she was really scared about it. Um, and 679 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: he was straight, you know, to his credit, he was 680 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: straight with her. He said, look, I can't promise you 681 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: that this won't happen again. Yeah, you mentioned that in 682 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: the story. And I just was thinking to myself, why 683 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: does he feel compelled to put everything at risk like that? 684 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: Because it seemed like, you know, by all accounts, they've 685 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: got a nice relationship and he's got four kids. And 686 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 1: when he had gotten arrested, I imagine and it's one 687 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: of my questions for you, like he lost all of 688 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: his money. Um, so he's a pretty smart guy. He 689 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: doesn't have to do this. So he's compelled by addiction 690 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: or like why is he doing this? Well, I think 691 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: he loves the game, um. And by that I mean 692 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: I think he really loves you know. To him, I 693 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: think beating the line and you know, outsmarting the books 694 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: is the reason that I opened and closed the piece 695 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: with us playing slot machines is because I think that 696 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: that's that sort of symbolized for me, what was what 697 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: really the gas and spankies tank is. You know, what 698 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: really is motivating him is um not money, because when 699 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: we're playing, these slots were plan for you know, we're 700 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: playing for pennies and quarters and you know what I mean. 701 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: But to him, it was that he was outsmarting the 702 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: casino right, that he was getting an edge on the casino. 703 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: I think he plays a lot of board games and 704 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: it was like Twilight Struggle and stuff, and he's like, 705 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: really his fan he plays backgammon, and you know, he's 706 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: he's somebody who I think loves games and he loves 707 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: figuring out puzzles and taking on challenges, and so I 708 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: think for him that's what's exciting and fun about it 709 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: for him. But I also think that he feels very 710 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: passionately and strongly that what he's doing is legal and 711 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: right and he has broken no laws and that there's 712 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: no reason that he should be and he that he 713 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: doesn't believe he's really putting everything at risk because he 714 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: doesn't feel he put it at risk the first time around. 715 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: So I think if he I don't mean to speak 716 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: from too much, but I think he would say that 717 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: he learned a lot of lessons when he got arrested 718 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: in and he knows not to make those same mistakes, 719 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: so that it's very clear what side of the counter 720 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: he's on now, is what he would say. He says, 721 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: n I all my business that I conduct now, there 722 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: won't be any more of this ambiguity. And so you 723 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: know he was involved in this, you know cannor um 724 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: gaming situation. How familiar you are with it. I didn't 725 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: get too much into it, into the piece. It's a 726 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: whole another saga talk about it for the thirty seconds. Well, 727 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: it's you know, Canner. Fitzgerald decided to get into gambling 728 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: at one point, and they started a trading desk where 729 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: they where they were going to go to Las Vegas 730 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: and bet right. They were going to use investors money 731 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: and just gamble it to make make money for their 732 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: They were doing big, like they were big, and they 733 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: were the first players doing in play betting. And uh, 734 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: I remember I did a story about this for sixty 735 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: when they launched, and I was doing in play like 736 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 1: during the Inda Way Tournament no March Madness or yeah 737 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: n tournament. And I remember leam Madus who was one 738 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: of the guys who sort of went out there to 739 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: run it and was at the center of all this. 740 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: I think if I remember, um, He's like, we just 741 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: want pennies on the dollar. We're about volume. And then 742 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: they all ended up getting caught and sort of this 743 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: scandal where they were basically running an illegal book, one 744 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: of their bookmakers running in a legal book out of 745 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: the Yeah, I mean it was a messenger betting too. 746 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: I mean they were you know, what what happened is 747 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: they'd get they'd get way too heavy on one side, 748 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: so they'd go looking for someone to take the other, 749 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: you know, they look for a layoff guy, and um, 750 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: that's something I think that's common with live street bookies 751 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: or whatever. But they would call big players, players like 752 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: Spanky and say, will you take the other side of 753 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: this bed? And then the Nevada law that isn't that's 754 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: not legal. I mean, so, you know, I think players 755 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: who are playing with them maybe thought that there was 756 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: that it was legit because it's Candor Fitzgerald and because 757 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: it's the casino, and because it's people. It's like the 758 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: executives from the casino are the ones calling you. You 759 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: think that you're doing that what you're doing is okay, 760 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: you know. So, um, the government had other ideas about it. 761 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: But I think Spanky doesn't feel he's putting things at 762 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: risk now because I think he'd say, what I do, 763 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: my business that I do is legal, it's legal in 764 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: the United States. I'm following the laws. I'm not breaking 765 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: any laws. And he says, like, I have every converence, 766 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: every conversation I have today, I have it like my 767 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: phone is tapped to make sure that I don't you 768 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: know that I always feel like I'm being watched, and 769 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: so I think that too, is why he's probably more 770 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: willing to be public now, because he wants to show like, 771 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: I got nothing to hide. I'm us a gambler. I'm 772 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: just making bets. But you know, I think he probably 773 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: realized it was also mistake to have seven thousand dollars 774 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: in cash in his house too. Yeah. Right, the other 775 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: gamblers I talked to for the story, we said, yeah, 776 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: that was kind of stupid. You know, I don't I 777 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: don't keep any of my cash, you know, because civil 778 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: forfeiture ism, you know, motivating. You know, when you think 779 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: about the government coming coming after gamblers, that's a motive 780 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: reader for them. If they know that you have a 781 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: lot of money on that they can grab that, that's 782 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: something they can motivate them nothing but bust, even when 783 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: they don't have it on you. The the one thing 784 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: that's challenging is making sports betters look sympathetic, which is 785 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: a lot of what you're trying to do in this story. Yeah. 786 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: I think I did try to do a little bit 787 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: of that. I mean, even with like, at first, I 788 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: had to convince my editors that I wasn't like, you 789 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,919 Speaker 1: know whatever, too much and throw all to these guys. 790 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: But by the way, I don't mean it as a criticism. 791 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: I mean that's sort of the part of the construct 792 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: of the story is you're trying to make a case 793 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: for these big corporations not playing fair, and the people 794 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: that are not playing fair with are guys who are 795 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: notoriously not people who you would have sympathy for. Now 796 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: I understand, and and and I had this the same 797 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: thing that that black Jack was just saying about, like, well, 798 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: what's the what's the beef? You know, this is their business. 799 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: Why can't they tell people to screw off? And I 800 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: think that another thing that I mentioned to Spanking several times. 801 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: It's like, man, do you do people the level that 802 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: you're playing at is not going to make sense to people, right, 803 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: Like people aren't gonna see it as some big injustice 804 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: that you can only bet a thousand dollars on a game, 805 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: like for most of us in America will will never 806 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: bet a thousand dollars a game. So it's hard to 807 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: get people to feel bad for you. So I really 808 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: had to take some time to explain to people that 809 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 1: you know, how he makes his money isn't by getting 810 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: lucky and winning a thousand dollars in a game, but 811 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: by eking out one to two percent over the long run, 812 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: and he has employees and he has a family, you know, 813 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: so like you have to bet millions of dollars in 814 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: order to eke out something close to you know, six 815 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: figures there, and you're also risking that you won't even 816 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: make your one to two percent. You could go under 817 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: some years. So that in that sense, limiting that player 818 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: down to a thousand dollars as a killer. And I 819 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: also wanted to point out to the reader that, like, 820 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: they're not going to take a thousand dollar bet or 821 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: even a five dollar bet from this guy, but they 822 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: do like a half a million dollars a bet in 823 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: bets a day across one counter, you know what I mean. 824 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: So the volume is really huge here. So it's like, 825 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: what are you scared of? I mean, Captain Jack getting 826 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: limited to thirty dollars that was kind of crazy. Yeah, 827 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: it's like, what do you this is draft Kings, What 828 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: are you guys afraid of? You've got so much money 829 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: you can't give the guy fifty bucks an a bet 830 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: on an inning. So, you know the way that I 831 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: tried to make people feel some sympathy for this for 832 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: the gambler is by showing making people feel unsympathetic about 833 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: the book. The corporations, I think that we're coming in 834 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: and sort of changing the game a little bit. David, 835 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: let me ask you this because obviously we work for 836 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: a gambling company. Um, but my view on on gambling 837 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: is that it's something that should be fun. It's something 838 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: that that you know, you should go into with your 839 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: eyes open, and probably you should expect more often than 840 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: not to lose because it's set up that way. The system, 841 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: the system is set up for the player to lose. 842 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: People that view it as almost a career or a 843 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: form of investing. What are your thoughts on that? You 844 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts on that. But I think 845 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: about this a lot. I read a lot about gambling 846 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: on a gamble and it's it's something that's in my 847 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 1: family and it's something that, like I, um, I'm drawn 848 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: to and I've always wondered why. And you know, I 849 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: think that that people like the idea. I think we 850 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 1: all like stories about folks that that sort of win, 851 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: can win a battle by their wits, you know what 852 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: I mean, That people that can kind of outsmart their competition, 853 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: and in that sense, I think people like the idea 854 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: of a sharp player or smart gambler, or somebody who's 855 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: like really skilled at playing a certain game and can 856 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: win against their opponents or win against the casino or whatever. 857 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: I think people like those kinds of stories. I think 858 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: that gambling, though, is about more than just having some 859 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: fun and maybe you win and maybe you lose. What 860 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: the heck, you know? I think that it's a game. 861 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: We're playing a game. I mean, when you sit down 862 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,439 Speaker 1: and play a game, there's rules, you learn the rules, 863 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: and you want to try to figure out how to 864 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 1: play the game. Is best that you can't give yourself 865 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: your best chance of winning. I mean we say that 866 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: it's fun, and it is, but it's like it's it's 867 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: not like people are playing basketball on a basketball court 868 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: in the NBA. There we can say them, hey, it's 869 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: just fun, you know. I mean, it's just fun. You win, 870 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: you lose, you had a good time. It's basketball. You 871 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: should go into with your eyes open and know that 872 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: you could lose the game. But they're passionate about it 873 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: because they want to win, and their desire to win 874 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: makes them want to be as good at it as 875 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: they possibly can. I think we all can relate to that. 876 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: We're not all going to be sharp sports players, you 877 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: know what I mean, But what we do all want 878 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: to believe is that a sharp sports player can exist, 879 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm never going to be 880 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: a sharp player, but I don't want to believe that 881 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: someone can't be a sharp player because it's all so 882 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 1: rigged against them. I want to believe that somebody can. 883 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think is crazy 884 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: about what the way the industry is approaching this, and 885 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: I've said this in a couple of different interviews, is 886 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: that this is an opportunity that I think that the 887 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: the sort of burgeoning sports betting industry the United States 888 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: is missing out on, and that is to market the sports, 889 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: uh the professional sports better the sharp players market them 890 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: the way Poker did with their players. If I'm a 891 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: recreational sports better, I may want to aspire to be 892 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: one of those guys. It may take me years to 893 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: be as good as they are. It may take years 894 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: of losing, you know what I mean. I may never 895 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,919 Speaker 1: actually get to where I can be a winner, winning player, 896 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: but having that sort of north start to follow, to 897 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: know that someone is winning motivates me? Instead, what does 898 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: sports books do? They It's like some sucker walks in 899 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: and makes some crazy team parlay and wins it, and 900 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: then they give them this giant check and like that's 901 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: how what they're saying, see this could be you. You 902 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: could be the lucky jackpot winner. That doesn't motivate me. 903 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: What motivates me is to see somebody who came in 904 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: and like did their homework, was smart, knew a lot 905 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: about sports, understood numbers, and was able to win over 906 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: the long run. That's what I think most people. That's 907 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: your long term players. That's what you want is people 908 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: who are going to approach the game that way. And 909 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: if you don't market people who are successful at it, 910 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: then you don't give anybody an example of somebody who 911 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: can be. The only examples we have is these like 912 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, these these like big big check parlay winners. 913 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: We don't everybody else. They want to push the kick 914 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: those guys out of the casino as fast as they can. 915 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: I think they're missing a huge opportunity to market those players, 916 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: turn them into celebrities. Let's and David. It is an epic, sweeping, layered, 917 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: complex story about a subject we love. All of our 918 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: listeners listen, they should go read it because it's amazing. 919 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: So again it's it's long, it's worth it, like, it's 920 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: totally worth it. Again, Um, go google the story. Just 921 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: type in David Hill the Ringer, Uh, Spanky, Uh, You're 922 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: gonna love it. And I feel like that's a better 923 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: way to describe to tell people to go find the 924 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: story than to like say, go to Ringer dot com 925 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: and you know, give them the title of the story. 926 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: The story might not be in the front page of 927 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: the website anymore. Where you just put those terms in, 928 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: it's going to come right to the top. It's a 929 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 1: better sort of homepage. Well done. Yeah, thank you, great work. 930 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what you do next. I 931 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: appreciate that guy. All right. This has been the favorites 932 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: from the Action Network. Download rate, Subscribe, review, Apple Podcasts, 933 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: Radio dot com, slash the Action Network Until next time. 934 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: I love you, love your black Cat, Love you too.