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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstar,

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Speaker 1: that's Karen Gilcaratt.

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Speaker 2: And it's Saint Patrick's Day. Everybody, welcome to our Saint

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Speaker 2: Patrick's Day party. I noticed that whoever got these balloons

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Speaker 2: very Protestant based. The orange represents Northern Ireland. I just

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Speaker 2: want to say right now, I didn't know that there'd

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Speaker 2: be a lot more green in here. If I was

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Speaker 2: the one in the shamrock balloon situation.

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Speaker 3: They didn't float. I'm sorry, Oh, is that true?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a balloon fiasco earlier. No, did I

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Speaker 2: just uncover it through politics?

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Speaker 3: I'm highly political.

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Speaker 1: Send us your hey, email my Favorite Murder at Gmail.

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Speaker 1: What side are you on of the Irish Civil War?

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Speaker 1: Let us know, let us know. Should we just get

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Speaker 1: right into the network stuff?

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Speaker 3: Let's do it all right?

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Speaker 2: So we have a podcast network, and here's some highlights

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Speaker 2: and stuff that's going on there.

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Speaker 1: This week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head to

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Speaker 1: Long Island in nineteen fifty five to kick off part

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Speaker 1: one of the Shooting of the Century. Some of America's

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Speaker 1: wealthiest socialites gather for a glamorous party, but before morning arrives,

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Speaker 1: a murder is committed.

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Speaker 2: Also, the final episodes of our two newest series, to

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Speaker 2: Face John of God, dropped last week. You can binge

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Speaker 2: the entire story in both English and Spanish. We expect

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Speaker 2: you to listen to both.

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Speaker 1: And I said no gifts, Bridgert graciously looks the other

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Speaker 1: way when Stephanie Courtney from The Goldbergs Madmen barges in

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Speaker 1: with a gift and then the two get into CD Changers,

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Speaker 1: Evil Crystals and Claire Danes's stress level.

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Speaker 2: Here's a fun fact. Stephanie Courtney is Hello from Professive Amazing.

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Speaker 2: And if you're preparing for the Oscars this Sunday, Dear Movies,

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Speaker 2: I Love You is here to help. Milli and Casey

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Speaker 2: are breaking down the predictions, snubs, and the most baffling

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Speaker 2: nominations from this year, so you can walk into your

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Speaker 2: oscar pool feeling extremely confident. Plus, the hilarious Paul Rust

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Speaker 2: joins them talking about his area of expertise, which is

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Speaker 2: John Hughes Movies.

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Speaker 1: And in the merch corner, a limited number of MFM

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Speaker 1: collegiate unisex crew necks are available. I had mine on

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Speaker 1: this morning. It's so cozy and comfy. Karen's holding it

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Speaker 1: up now. It's like you didn't have to go to college.

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Speaker 1: It turns out all I have to do is buy

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Speaker 1: this sweater, grab yours. Well, they last at exactly rightstore

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Speaker 1: dot com. And that's what's going on in our network,

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Speaker 1: exactly right Media.

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Speaker 2: And I go first today. So Maren, I believe, suggested

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Speaker 2: this after reading a book, and the book is Bad

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Speaker 2: Bridget Crime, Mayhem and the Lives of Irish Immigrant Women

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Speaker 2: by doctors Elaine Ferrell and Leanne McCormick. Fitting So, of course,

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Speaker 2: as we are heading into Saint Patrick's Day, we do

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Speaker 2: love to celebrate the holidays here my favorite murder.

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Speaker 3: It's what we do.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to zoom in on a very specific

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Speaker 2: corner of the Irish diaspora, which is Irish girls and

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Speaker 2: women who emigrated to North America in the late eighteen

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Speaker 2: hundreds and the early nineteen hundreds. We remember them as tireless, resilient,

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Speaker 2: selfless women who worked their fingers to the bone to

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Speaker 2: build a better life for their families. It's very true,

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Speaker 2: being very related to some irishwomen of this era were distinct,

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Speaker 2: they were diverse, they were complex, and regardless of whether

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Speaker 2: history remembers them individually as saints or sinners. Their stories

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Speaker 2: are always filled with an incredible amount of humanity and

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Speaker 2: of course humor. So here's a few of the cases

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Speaker 2: unearthed by the Irish historians Elaine Ferrell and Leanne McCormick

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Speaker 2: for their book Bad Bridges. There's also a deep dive

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Speaker 2: podcast that they made called Bad Bridget So if you

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Speaker 2: want to hear more of these stories, because they've got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of them, because it's basically like the crime

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Speaker 2: records of the day, so you can go and listen

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Speaker 2: to that. So these women basically are referred to as

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Speaker 2: bad Bridgets because Bridget is a very common Irish name

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Speaker 2: at the time, and in the nineteenth century, bridget was

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Speaker 2: a catch all, kind of shitty nickname for Irish women

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Speaker 2: in general because there were so many domestic workers who

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Speaker 2: had emigrated to America, so they were the Bridgets were everywhere.

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Speaker 2: So this is roughly between the years of eighteen fifty

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Speaker 2: and the early nineteen hundreds where Irish immigrants have arrived

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Speaker 2: at ports in these cities around the country in huge numbers.

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Speaker 2: They are mostly poor, they're mostly Catholic, not Protestant, and

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Speaker 2: they're done and they're deeply unwelcomed by the white Protestant establishment.

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Speaker 2: So the people that came over in the Mayflower, those

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Speaker 2: are the Protestants. The Catholics were the ones that were

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Speaker 2: being persecuted in many places, so that that's why some

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Speaker 2: Catholics came over. Many people, though, were starving from the

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Speaker 2: Irish potato famine, which was in fact the British government

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Speaker 2: with holding food from the Irish. We're just getting everything

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Speaker 2: real clear here on Saint Patrick's Day, got it. So

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Speaker 2: when these immigrants arrived, there were signs in shop windows

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Speaker 2: that said no Irish need apply. There was a lot

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Speaker 2: of what now seems kind of like really Irish racism,

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Speaker 2: but it was part of the across the board racism

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Speaker 2: that I think every immigrant probably dealt with coming into

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Speaker 2: America at the time. So Irish immigrants were shut out

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Speaker 2: of decent paying work. They are packed into tenements, they're

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Speaker 2: over surveilled, they're over policed, and that means they're disproportionately

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Speaker 2: represented in the prison systems. It sounds familiar because it

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Speaker 2: is familiar. Early eighteen sixties in New York City, Irish

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Speaker 2: women account for four out of every five women in

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Speaker 2: the jails or prisons that are there. Yeah, in turn

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Speaker 2: of the century Boston, Irish women and girls make up

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Speaker 2: nearly forty percent of the prison population, despite the city's

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Speaker 2: overall population being less than twenty percent Irish. And of

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Speaker 2: course these numbers are used to justify ugly stereotypes that

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Speaker 2: Irish women are inherently criminal or morally corrupt. But the

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Speaker 2: second you dig into the actual stories behind these stats,

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Speaker 2: of course, things are much more complex. So that brings

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Speaker 2: us to our first Bridget that I'm going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about. A woman named Bridget McCool. In eighteen oh four,

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Speaker 2: she arrives in Massachusetts as a teenager. She finds work

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Speaker 2: as a laundress and in a mill. Then she marries

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Speaker 2: a guy named Thomas, but it's not a good relationship.

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Speaker 2: He abandons her within two years and he leaves her penniless.

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Speaker 2: And because she's a poor Irish Catholic woman, divorce is

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Speaker 2: basically off the table. It's stigmatized by the church like

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Speaker 2: it especially back then, it just never happened. But on

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Speaker 2: top of that, it was expensive and it was time consuming.

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Speaker 2: And yet a woman abandoned in like a major city

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Speaker 2: who has no idea where her next meal is coming

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Speaker 2: from needs a husband for a shot at financial stability.

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Speaker 2: So Bridget gets remarried without first divorcing Thomas. So she's

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Speaker 2: a big a mist. When Thomas catches wind of Bridget's

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Speaker 2: illegal second marriage, he reports her to the point just

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Speaker 2: go away. I mean, how do you prove better that

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Speaker 2: you should have been divorced than to be that kind

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Speaker 2: of guy?

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Speaker 3: Hey, I left her, Now she's remarried.

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Speaker 2: I'm a dush anna nark. What a combination. More so,

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Speaker 2: he's remarried at this point on, so he basically shoots

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Speaker 2: himself in the foot because they both wind up being

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Speaker 2: arrested because they're both adulterers and bigamists. Bridget spends two

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Speaker 2: years in prison, but when she gets out, her personal

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Speaker 2: life doesn't improve over the next couple decades. When she

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Speaker 2: serves out her sentence, she tries to pick up the

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Speaker 2: pieces of her life. She gets married a third time

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Speaker 2: again still hasn't gotten that initial first divorce, So she

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Speaker 2: gets sent back to our reformatory. And once she completes

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Speaker 2: this sentence, and after her relationship with husband number three DS,

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Speaker 2: she goes ahead and illegally marries a fourth time. Okay,

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Speaker 2: good god, she just doubling tripling quadrupling down. This one's

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Speaker 2: actually a remarriage to her second husband, who financially supported

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Speaker 2: her after Thomas' husband Number one left. But then once

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Speaker 2: she's in this marriage, the twist is that Bridget McCool

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Speaker 2: finds out that her current husband, so number two and

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Speaker 2: number four one guy, he's been lying this whole time

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Speaker 2: about being a widower. A woman he'd married years earlier,

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Speaker 2: who he's no longer with but hadn't divorced, is in

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Speaker 2: fact still alive.

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Speaker 1: This is really romantic because yesterday was mine in Vince's

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Speaker 1: ten year anniversary.

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Speaker 3: That just feels like a great story for this time.

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Speaker 2: To show you how it could be and that how

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Speaker 2: it is not. Yeah, that's exactly I would imagine a

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Speaker 2: lot less lying from our man, Vince.

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Speaker 1: Less lying prison time. He is no fucking narc I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you that.

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Speaker 2: Right, He's certainly no narn No, that is very true.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, he wouldn't call himself a widower

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Speaker 2: unless he really was a widow, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: Of course, this betrayal is what finally pushes Bridget to

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Speaker 2: seek and obtain illegal divorce on the grounds of cruelty.

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Speaker 2: And finally that story like wraps up. But it's that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing where it's like, thinking about the immigrant experience.

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Speaker 2: You are left, you're sent away from your family, often

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Speaker 2: alone or with maybe one or two other people, trying

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Speaker 2: to make it in a place like New York City,

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Speaker 2: Boston wherever, and one thing goes wrong and then.

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Speaker 3: It all goes totally.

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Speaker 1: And as much as I want to be like, why

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Speaker 1: did she keep doing that, it's like, because you'll never

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Speaker 1: know how fucking difficult life was and is for other people,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna.

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Speaker 2: Right, And this idea that especially back then women it

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Speaker 2: was like you can be a laundress and touch everybody's

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Speaker 2: shit stained sheets, right, or you could be a sex worker,

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Speaker 2: Like but that's the worst thing, morall Lee that the

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Speaker 2: man in the skuy thinks. Okay, So even though Bridget mccool'

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Speaker 2: is technically a criminal in the eyes of the law,

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Speaker 2: she's clearly not a bad woman's It basically just drives

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Speaker 2: home this truth that the law punishes the people who

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Speaker 2: are just trying to survive the worst usually, and that's

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Speaker 2: a common theme for sex workers from this era, and

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of them at the turn of

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. In New York City in eighteen seventy,

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Speaker 2: for example, the New York Times reports that there are

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Speaker 2: more than ten thousand sex workers at the time when

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Speaker 2: the city's population is just under one million people, And

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Speaker 2: that means this is the new how much in today's money,

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Speaker 2: That means one sex worker for every one hundred New Yorkers.

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Speaker 2: As doctor Verel and doctor McCormick point out in their book,

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Speaker 2: the past Irish women and girls take into sex work

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Speaker 2: is not monolithic. Some are vulnerable, some have no connections

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Speaker 2: or legal protections in the US. Some are exploited by

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Speaker 2: bad men right after they arrive. I think I've told

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Speaker 2: you the story, But my grandmother came here when she

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Speaker 2: was seventeen with her two sisters. They land in New

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Speaker 2: York City, they go through Ellis Island, and then they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to meet a sponsor, and the sponsor is the

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Speaker 2: person that set them up with work, which is the

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Speaker 2: reason they were able to come. And sometimes they come

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Speaker 2: on a loan and the sponsor's like, I fronted you

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Speaker 2: this money, now you're going to go work here. It's

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Speaker 2: not great. So they landed and this man meets them

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Speaker 2: at the docks or whatever, and he's like you know.

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Speaker 2: My grandmother described it to my aunt, who described it

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Speaker 2: to me that he was just kind of some blow

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Speaker 2: hard with like you know, in white linen. And he

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Speaker 2: drives them into it to a tenement house on the

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Speaker 2: Lower East Side and walks them up and puts them

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Speaker 2: into this apartment that's one room basically, and he's like

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Speaker 2: and I'll be here in the morning and you better

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Speaker 2: be ready, and da da da, and the door shuts

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Speaker 2: and he leaves. And my grandmother, who's seventeen years old

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Speaker 2: at the time, turns to her older sister and her

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Speaker 2: younger sister and goes, I don't know about you guys,

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Speaker 2: but I'm getting out of here. And they had a

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Speaker 2: postcard that they used to have in their head in Longford, Ireland.

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Speaker 2: Relatives sent them a postcard of this of San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: So my grandma said, let's go to San Francisco. The

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Speaker 2: streets are really clean.

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Speaker 3: There, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And that's how like our family came to be.

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Speaker 3: Was like across the entire country.

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Speaker 1: I'm seventeen seventeen, you to this place and like basically

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Speaker 1: like fuck this shit, this ain't me it happen.

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Speaker 2: I want to go somewhere else. Yeah, it's so crazy.

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Speaker 2: So that idea that like the amount of money and

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Speaker 2: trust people were putting into the hands of like basic

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Speaker 2: strangers to say, please take care of my teenager, please

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Speaker 2: take care of my family member once you get here.

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Speaker 2: Obviously a whole different story. So many intersex work because

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Speaker 2: it's preferable to low pay, taxing labor, long hours of

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Speaker 2: domestic or laundry work. I mean, that's there's some people

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Speaker 2: who just make that choice, but oftentimes people were forced

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Speaker 2: into it, and of course there's all the risks that

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Speaker 2: come with that decision, which is of course disease, infection,

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Speaker 2: unwanted pregnancies, male violence, and then incarceration. So this brings

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Speaker 2: us to our second bad bridget, a woman named Marian

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Speaker 2: Canning who arrives in New York City in eighteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: When she's eighteen years old. She moves into a tenement

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Speaker 2: on Mulberry Street in the notorious Five Points neighborhood of Laura, Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: So my grandma story would be twenty five thirty years later.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, but not crazy far, which is the

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Speaker 2: weird things. Marian's building has a reputation at the time

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Speaker 2: that she lives there, multiple stabbings and murders are reported inside.

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Speaker 2: It's also thought that a brothel is operating out of it,

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Speaker 2: which is probably how she came to live there. So

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Speaker 2: fast forward a year after her arriving in the city

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Speaker 2: is July eighteen ninety one. Marian's heading to her home

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Speaker 2: one evening when a firefighter named Richard bronk Bank approaches

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Speaker 2: her outside propositions her for sex. She brings him inside,

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Speaker 2: and then later on he ends up accusing her of

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Speaker 2: stealing his water and some of his money. Someone calls

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Speaker 2: the police. We're not sure which one of the two

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Speaker 2: of them. Richard claims he calls the police to report

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Speaker 2: the theft. Marian says she called the police because she

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Speaker 2: wanted a CoP's help because she was being falsely accused.

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Speaker 2: Either way, Richard's watch and cash are not found on Marian,

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Speaker 2: but she's charged with theft and carted off to jail. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: we'll never know if she was innocent or if she

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Speaker 2: did rob Richard and high his possessions, some are in

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Speaker 2: her apartment. What we know is that many sex workers

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Speaker 2: of this era do pick through their client's pockets, knowing

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Speaker 2: that the stigma of them hiring a sex worker is

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Speaker 2: going to keep them from being reported. But even if

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Speaker 2: Marian is innocent of this crime, which she very well

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Speaker 2: might be, she's guilty by her association with sex work

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Speaker 2: in the eyes of the people that they're reporting to,

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Speaker 2: and she pays the price for it. She's sentenced to

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Speaker 2: seven years in prison for this unproven theft. Fortunately, her

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Speaker 2: parents in Ireland find out that she's in prison. They

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Speaker 2: don't know why, though, and her father ends up writing

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Speaker 2: a letter to a judge, the judge from Marion's trial,

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Speaker 2: and to the governor of New York, begging to have

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Speaker 2: his daughter back and promising to write her course and

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Speaker 2: asking for clemency for her and the gut. It actually works.

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Speaker 2: The governor's sympathetic and Marian, who's now twenty one, gets

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Speaker 2: a pardon, and after less than a year of serving

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Speaker 2: her sentence, she's freed from jail. Marian's father sends money

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Speaker 2: for her trip back to Ireland, so she goes back

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Speaker 2: home and gets married not long after, and as Leanne

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Speaker 2: McCormick writes, quote, it's unlikely that anyone in her hometown

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Speaker 2: ever knew the exact details of what had happened to

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Speaker 2: her in New York. The disgrace attached to being in

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Speaker 2: prison would have been enough to prevent a marriage taking place,

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Speaker 2: never mind the additional shame of having been involved in

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Speaker 2: sex work. So she's incredibly lucky because she has the

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Speaker 2: kind of family that's like, wait, we can take her

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Speaker 2: back and we can do something with this. But most

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Speaker 2: people were like leaving in totally the end, and she

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Speaker 2: lived a quiet life after that. So both Bridget McCool

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Speaker 2: and Marian Canning are punished and criminalized for trying to

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Speaker 2: make their way in a foreign land without money, connections,

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Speaker 2: or protection. And there, of course are countless stories like this,

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Speaker 2: but not every bad bridget fits this mold. The next

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Speaker 2: Bridget I'm going to tell you about seems to commit

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Speaker 2: crimes because she's really good at it, not because she's desperate.

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Speaker 2: That sounds fun, right. So we're back in New York

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Speaker 2: City nineteenth century and the police are doing something revolutionary

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Speaker 2: for the time, which is they're photographing criminals and compiling

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Speaker 2: their images into big books that are basically our early

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Speaker 2: mugshot databases. This is really helpful because so many criminals

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Speaker 2: take on aliases and basically it's easy to evade the

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Speaker 2: low as they're just kind of like, no, it's me

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Speaker 2: Jerry Seinfeldt.

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Speaker 1: You know, no, wait, that's Jerry Arcia and you know

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Speaker 1: I know it, and you know we can't prove it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so of course mugshots are like such scientific advancement

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Speaker 2: because now suddenly they can it's not based on memory.

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Speaker 2: It's like, it's this guy right here. They assemble one

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Speaker 2: book in eighteen eighty six that features two hundred and

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Speaker 2: four criminals at large in New York City, and one

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Speaker 2: of those criminals is old mother Hubbard. No, well, not

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Speaker 2: the real one, got it, Not the not the one

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Speaker 2: who started Feeder Dog, got it? No, this is this

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Speaker 2: was the nickname that this woman got because she just

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Speaker 2: looked like an unassuming little old lady. Her name is

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Speaker 2: actually Margaret Brown. Okay, but she's not the Margaret Brown

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Speaker 2: from the Titanic, the Unsinkable Molly Brown that I've talked

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 1: About, Bridgets and Margaret's and Brown's and fucking green green

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Speaker 1: and orange and green and orange.

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Speaker 2: We've taken over, we've we've we've been under the skin

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Speaker 2: of this country for such a long time, the Irish.

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Speaker 2: So this Margaret Brown, which is I think like being

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Speaker 2: named Jim Smith probably. There's a lot of unknown about her,

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Speaker 2: and of course she does have many other names besides

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Speaker 2: Margaret Brown. We don't even know if that's her real name,

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Speaker 2: it's just one of the names. She claims her legal

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Speaker 2: name is Elizabeth Haskins. We don't know if that's true.

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Speaker 2: She also goes by Eliza Burnham, Jane Hutchinson, and missus

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Speaker 2: Arthur Young, which I'm taking that one. We don't know how.

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Speaker 3: Old she is.

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Speaker 2: Some of the best historical sources place her anywhere from

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Speaker 2: her sixties to her eighties. Can we see that mug

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Speaker 2: shot in here, Molly.

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Speaker 1: She's another one of those. Is it an old hat?

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Speaker 1: Is it a young lady? Turn it upside down and

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Speaker 1: it's a vase for real?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Also is it a wig and a hat?

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Speaker 1: I feel like if I hadn't started getting botox at

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Speaker 1: thirty three, that's what I would look like right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I mean, it's dead on. It's so

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Speaker 2: youry me, you and your big hats, and you're down

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Speaker 2: to I love it when people's expression is like literally

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Speaker 2: fully downturned, where it looks like Margaret can't smile if

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Speaker 2: she wants to, No, if only she knew she was

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Speaker 2: surrounded by beautiful balloons. This is where you get to Margaret. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so I think in that picture, I think she was

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Speaker 2: If it's eighteen eighty six, I bet you she was

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Speaker 2: in her late fifties. Yeah, it's one of those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What she is is a superstar street thief who's operated

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Speaker 2: in a large number of cities like Boston, Philly, Saint Louis,

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Speaker 2: as far away as Texas. Local newspapers have described her

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Speaker 2: as quote one of the most successful and notorious pickpockets

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Speaker 2: and shoplifters in the country.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can we just say, how fun right life? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: don't fucking steal from people.

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Speaker 2: But look, she's like, I stole that hat. I stole

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Speaker 2: it right off with dummy's head.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So here's what we can piece together about Margaret's life.

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00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 2: She's born in Ireland, she emigrates to the US, she

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Speaker 2: takes on legitimate domestic work, and she eventually falls in

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Speaker 2: with a woman named Frederica Mendelbaum or or Mother Mandelbaum.

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Speaker 2: And we've actually talked about Mother Mandelbaum on this show before.

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Speaker 2: She's a legendary fence. So remember that the lady that

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Speaker 2: used to sell stuff like the criminals would come to

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Speaker 2: her and she was like the middleman.

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Speaker 3: No, but it sounds right.

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Speaker 2: It's a Mandelbaum, missus Mandelbaum, and she's basically made her

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00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 2: own way with the criminals and by the criminals. She

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00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 2: moves stolen goods and she becomes a maternal figure for

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Speaker 2: the gang of burglars and thieves and con men and

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Speaker 2: women on the Lower east Side. Margaret Brown is one

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Speaker 2: of those people Maren very clearly said no to. Karen

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Speaker 2: Mandelbaum is Jewish, not Irish. Yeah, and also you covered

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Speaker 2: her right, that makes sense, all of it. The name

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Speaker 2: of the episode you covered her and is called is

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Speaker 2: episode four fourteen Weather Influencers. Remember that hit.

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Speaker 1: No, but I'm on so much suit fed right now,

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Speaker 1: So it's okay, we'll just focus.

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00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is going fast helping or would it be better

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Speaker 2: to go slow?

390
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 3: Okay.

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00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 2: Margaret's specialty is pickpocketing, which at the time is mostly

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Speaker 2: left to children and sex.

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Speaker 3: Workers, little grubby hands.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, get in there. It's like the best thing about

395
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Speaker 2: for me, the musical Annie is just the idea that

396
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: it's like, but there's orphans, but there's also children on

397
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Speaker 2: the street urchins that are out there just like make

398
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Speaker 2: it it work well. Margaret, who has a kind face

399
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Speaker 2: and pretty hazel eyes, of course, has a real neck

400
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: because she looks like a sad little old lady. Never

401
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 2: expect an old lady to do anything, so she develops

402
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: her own signature em O. It's complete with a costume.

403
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: She always wears these long calico dresses like Little Bo

404
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: Peep or Mother.

405
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Speaker 3: Goose picturing my cat.

406
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Speaker 2: For some reason, calico, there's a lot of fur on

407
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 2: the outside patches, okay, basically doing grandma drags, so it

408
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: really looks like she's unassuming and right. She targets busy

409
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,959
Speaker 2: shops and department stores, where she is her quick, agile

410
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: hands to lift things off of oblivious customers. So she's

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00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: shoplifting off the shoppers, got it, which is kind of smart, Yeah,

412
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Speaker 2: because they're watching the goods, not the people's pockets.

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Speaker 1: Right.

414
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: Sure. So one officer describes her as having quote a

415
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 2: specialty of opening handbags, removing the pocketbook, and closing them again. WHOA,

416
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: that is as bad.

417
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: Acause that's like unnecessary. You're showing off at this point.

418
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Speaker 1: You don't need to do that.

419
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 2: I didn't notice. Also, I'm thinking back then, but I'm

420
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Speaker 2: thinking of like forties fifties, perses those ones with the

421
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Speaker 2: big ball, classic snap.

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Speaker 3: Loud ass class. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She stashes the stolen loot in a waist bag that

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Speaker 2: she's wearing under her dress.

425
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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: She's also known to use a long wire, which she

427
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 2: might stick out of her pocket or through a shopping basket,

428
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: and after identifying her mark the person she's going to

429
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 2: steal from, she'll position the wire so that it gets

430
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Speaker 2: tangled in that person's clothing. As Margaret, with all her

431
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Speaker 2: grandmother sweetness, apologetically works to untangle the wire, she does

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Speaker 2: a slide of hand move into the pockets of the

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Speaker 2: mark and steals their value plits, Oh, I'm so sorry

434
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: you okay, over here, yeah, love it. In one documented theft,

435
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: Margaret steals two hundred and sixty dollars from a man's satchel.

436
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: Okay, nineteen eighteen, ninety eighteen ninety two hundred and sixty.

437
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go twenty one thousand, twenty thousand.

438
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: It's thirty two hundred dollars.

439
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: Sorry, did I mean I'm tired? I'm tired.

440
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: Also, I won't stop playing this game.

441
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: I know you're just like I won't stop letting you

442
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: play it and doing it.

443
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, why would a guy be carrying Okay.

444
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah. She just basically makes bank off one man. Great,

445
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: but she keeps going and as skilled as she is

446
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: said to be, she does get caught several times. After

447
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: one of her arrests, police discover she's wearing an expensive

448
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 2: silk dress under her cheap dress.

449
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 3: She's got a layer.

450
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: Kind of awesome where she's like, I'm actually very stylish.

451
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: This is merely a costume. In a criminal career that's

452
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 2: said to span four or five decades, Margaret will serve

453
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: time in Chicago, Boston, and New York, including a stint

454
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: at Blackwell's Island just a few years before trailblazing journalist

455
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: Nellie Bly goes undercover there. Wow, she's seen all the

456
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: bad shit. If you want to know the story of

457
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: trailblazing journalist Nellie Bly, which is it's pretty good, it's

458
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: in episode four oh one. Keep a lid on it,

459
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: you know that one. So during a different incarceration at

460
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: Joliette in Illinois in the eighteen seventies, this or early work.

461
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: Per some sources, Margaret would be in her seventies, but

462
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: she tries to escape, which I don't buy it because

463
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: I think.

464
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: Her, yeah, she probably wanted to look older than she

465
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: actually was right and was.

466
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 3: Lying to people.

467
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: They wrote in the book that she was intersect right,

468
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: she probably wasn't. And here's baby proof of this theory.

469
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: Do you just call me baby? Hey?

470
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: Baby? I think I said here's maybe yeah? Did I

471
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: What am I on? She reportedly tries to escape from

472
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: jail by jumping out of a third story window.

473
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 3: Now just hang out.

474
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: She falls to the ground and almost dies from her injuries,

475
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: but she doesn't die from those injuries. She recovers, She

476
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: completes her prison sentence, and she continues creating a paper

477
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 2: trail of arrests as she keeps it up into the

478
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: eighteen eighties. Her documented arrests stop somewhere around eighteen eighty five.

479
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: Whether this is when she dies, when she retires, or

480
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: if she just stops getting caught altogether is a mysterious

481
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: piece or her story. By the early twentieth century, the

482
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: number of Irish immigrants arriving in North America starts to

483
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: slow down, discriminations softens, Irish Americans begin seeing real upward mobility,

484
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: as Lane Ferrell and Leanne McCormick write in their book

485
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: Bad Britain quote. The dominant narrative of Irish immigration to

486
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: North America became focused on those who came from humble

487
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: beginnings in Ireland and made a better life for themselves.

488
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: They or their children went on to become pillars of society.

489
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: They became the Kennedys, a political dynasty, or the Eatons,

490
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: who established Canada's largest department star chain. But as the

491
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: Irish became more upwardly mobile, establishing themselves within North American society,

492
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: there was no appetite on either side of the Atlantic

493
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 2: to face up to the reality that many Irish female

494
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: immigrants did not succeed, and that many ended up on

495
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: the wrong side of the law. Telling the stories of

496
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: these women is crucial to our understanding of the Irish

497
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: past end quote. And so today as we celebrate Saint

498
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: Patrick's Day, we are honoring the Bridgets of all kinds,

499
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: and the Margarets and the Marians, and the Annies and

500
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: her two sisters, who, as poor women, belonged to a

501
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: demographic that is so often omitted from history books. But

502
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 2: now thanks to the tireless efforts of Ferrell and Kormick

503
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: and all of the historians that are keeping all of

504
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: this history alive for all of us, and the history

505
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: of the Bad Bridge it's a live specifically, the stories

506
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: are finally being told. And of course there's a movie

507
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: in the works starring Daisy Edgar Jones from Normal People

508
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: and it's going to be directed by the director rich Pepiat.

509
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: But I don't know if you ever saw the twenty

510
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: twenty four movie Kneecap about the Irish rappers and they're

511
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: super political and it's amazing and their documentary or is

512
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: it it's scripted? It seems like what do they call that,

513
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: it's like a pseudo doc where it's like scripted, but

514
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: it's based on their real lives and how they basically

515
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: busted out as these kind of like Irish I guess rappers,

516
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: but they like their shit is about like freeing Palestine

517
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: and stuff. Like they're hyper political global it's very very

518
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: cool and the movie's great and got a lot of

519
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: a word. So the Bad Bridgets movie is going to

520
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 2: be made by the Kneecap guy, which is nice deserved,

521
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: very on theme, and that's the story of the Bad

522
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: Bridgets of early America.

523
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that term bad Bridgets, Like that's just

524
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: encapitulates so much to have pictures.

525
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: The Lower east Side. That's five points. There's a tenement house.

526
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: Look at that house.

527
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: Picture My grandma going, I don't know about you guys,

528
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 2: but I'm not staying here.

529
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely not, she said.

530
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: She said, no, way too much.

531
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: Cletter.

532
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: God, that's so crazy.

533
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: There's the mugshot database. It wasn't a book. Wow, that's

534
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: why Maren called it a database. It literally looks like

535
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: mini x rays.

536
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 3: It does like an X ray board there it is.

537
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, if I find one of those in

538
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: an estate sale my life.

539
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: Could you complete in the basement of a Lower east

540
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: Side old tenement.

541
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: House that's in there, just go in, ah, because the

542
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: individual pictures in that thing are incredible, I bet you.

543
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: I mean there's like, there's her, and then there's.

544
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: That's like the find someone. Let us know.

545
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: That's like remember in the very beginning of the podcast,

546
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, always wanted one of those

547
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: Dare drug suitcases they would bring to Dare and show

548
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: you all the different kinds of drugs. And someone went

549
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: in their dad's fucking ex cop garage and sent me that.

550
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: We got it. So we're asking for this now.

551
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: Ships we wanted its rare antique. We'll just hang it

552
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: there and then when we have pictures for our stories,

553
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: we'll put them in that I love it and light

554
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: them up.

555
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: We'll use it for good, we promise. Yeah, great job, Yeah,

556
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: bad bridgets.

557
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: If that's not a fucking punk band yet, then come on, oh,

558
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: lady punk ban.

559
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: Let's talk to the kneecap boys about it.

560
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: It's right, all right, Well, mine's actually like a kind

561
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: of scammy similar in scam, you know, the scam world,

562
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: allthough very different and a little more not a little more,

563
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: very more current day. So this story is about a

564
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: bright teenager who got caught up in a tall tale

565
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: and wound up telling an elaborate hoax that fooled it.

566
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: Is it me.

567
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: That fulled half of the media industry in New York

568
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: during a time when the media industry in New York

569
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: was substantially bigger and you know, more impressive, I think

570
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: than it is now. This is the story of Mohammed Islam.

571
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: The main sources used for the story are reporting from

572
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: The Guardian and The New York Observer, and the rest

573
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 1: of the sources can be found in the show notes.

574
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: So it's the fall of twenty thirteen. Take us back,

575
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: and we're in Stuyvesant High School in Lower Manhattan. Stuyvesant

576
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: is one of New York City's nine specialized high schools,

577
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: So they have these high schools. Admission to these schools

578
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: is determined only by a single academic entrance exam, which

579
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: is all eighth graders take.

580
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: It's really difficult to get into these schools.

581
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 1: It's an incredibly competitive environment and the pressure is very high.

582
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,239
Speaker 1: If you get in, you still fucking better perform. And

583
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: actually that's how school is.

584
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, not that test.

585
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: No, Fame is one of those schools, Like the school

586
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: where Fame came from is one of the schools. It

587
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: happens to just be performing arts that one. All the

588
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: other ones are based more on Sorry.

589
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: No, no, I just when you said that about the schools,

590
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: I thought of the Fame High School. But then I

591
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: was like, don't try to change the subject to what

592
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: you like talking about. So that's kind of exciting that

593
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: it is.

594
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: Kate went to that high school Stysant. You bet am

595
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: I saying it right?

596
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: She says, it's right.

597
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: What the fuck? God damn it, I'll walk out there.

598
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: That's great, Like hot lunch jam you stood on the

599
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: table in the cafeteria and stuff.

600
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: Not the fame one, this one, oh, this one. Math

601
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: and science school. Yeah, not fame.

602
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: Not fame.

603
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: She could have done both, but the fame of math

604
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 2: and science.

605
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah whatever that for really nursical.

606
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: That musical is the musical we want to see.

607
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are some of the best high schools in

608
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: the country, and it's generally agreed upon that among these schools,

609
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: Stuyvesant is the best in the city. I know. These

610
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: schools draw from all over the city, and Stuyvesant especially

611
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: has a high proportion of students who are first generation Americans,

612
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: often the children of immigrants who have made tremendous sacrifices

613
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: for their children's education. So there's a lot of children

614
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: of immigrants. However, there's just obviously, you know, a history

615
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: of racism going on because it's a hard test to take,

616
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of students who don't go to these

617
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 1: schools that are you get it.

618
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: Well, you know what it makes me think of is

619
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: the thing that happened where there was testing like that

620
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: and they discovered, you know, like the systemic racism of

621
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: that time, where it would be word problems in math,

622
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: and it'd be like, if so many people can sit

623
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: on this length of sofa and so many people can

624
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: sit in link of sofa, how long does the sofa

625
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: have to be to fit this family? I've totally made

626
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 2: that up something like that. But the fact that they

627
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: were using the word sofa instead of couch, so a

628
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: bunch of kids who are culturally I never heard the

629
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: word before, were like, I don't even know how to

630
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: work on this problem, right, realize that certain and I

631
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: think this study was being done about black students that

632
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: were taking these tests, and like, why do none of

633
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: them do well? And it's like, yeah, because that no

634
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: one's used the word sofa in their household.

635
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: Ever, that's a systemic racism issue.

636
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Okay, So these kids who make it into these very

637
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: difficult to get into schools often grow up with a

638
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: huge amount of pressure to perform very well academically.

639
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of pressure going on.

640
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: They're very smart, but you know, they can't be like

641
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: me and just not go to half of your high

642
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: school period time. So the fall of twenty thirteen, a

643
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: lot of pressure.

644
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: If you're an immigrant child whose parents gave everything up

645
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: to bring you to can you imagine to go to

646
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: high school.

647
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

648
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: It's the fall of twenty thirteen, and Mohammed Islam is

649
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: one of these such students. He's a soft spoken sixteen

650
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: year old whose parents immigrated from Bangladesh. Mohammed is a

651
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: junior in high school, and he's known around school to

652
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: be brilliant in a school where everyone is pretty much brilliant,

653
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: so that's high achievement.

654
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: He runs the school's investing club.

655
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: I was in that.

656
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: I was the secretary in which kids who are interested

657
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: in the stock market makes simulated trades with fake money,

658
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: just testing, just for fun the waters. But then it

659
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: starts to get around the school that on the side,

660
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: Mohammed Mo, as he's known, is actually making real investments

661
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: with real money, so it's not simulated. Turns out, the

662
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: rumor is that he's doing very well with these investments.

663
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: I don't mean to press you, but is that legal

664
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: for like a high school student to be day trading.

665
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: I would assume you have to be eighteen? Yeah right, yeah,

666
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: but I don't know.

667
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll learn something new as you tell me.

668
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: In November twenty thirteen, Mo appears in Alistical remember those

669
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: on Business Insider of kid investors. It's like a twenty

670
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: under twenty, So I guess you can do that. Yeah,

671
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: I guess I can gambling.

672
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: Right, It does or like something that should be more official,

673
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: but I guess it's like regulated. I guess under twenty

674
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 2: can still be over eighteen or under twenty, but doesn't

675
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: seem likely.

676
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: No. He tells Business Insider that he had gotten his

677
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,479
Speaker 1: start in penny stocks and then worked his way into

678
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: higher stakes securities. He says, quote, my main markets now

679
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: are crude oil futures and gold futures, and I trade

680
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: small to mid cap equities when the futures don't present

681
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: a good trade. It just makes me think of trading

682
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: places which Vince and I watch every Christmas. All I

683
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: know about stocks and that's what he knows about, So

684
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: it's just stuff like that that I know nothing about.

685
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: It's unclear how Moe first connects with the reporter of

686
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: that Business Insider story, but at that point he hasn't

687
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: told anyone that he's made a serious amount of money

688
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: with his trades. But somehow, over the course of the

689
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: next year, rumors begin to swirl around Stuyvesant that mo

690
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: has made a staggering amount of money, and people seem

691
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: to believe somehow, the number that gets thrown around, that

692
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: gets tied to him is seventy two million dollars that

693
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: he has made in some casual day trade. Yeah, which

694
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: is an outrageous and basically unheard of profit for anyone

695
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: who's been trading for just a couple of years, let

696
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: alone a high school student. So it's wild, it's big.

697
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: A whole year goes by, and then in December of

698
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, New York Magazine includes an article about MO

699
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 1: and its annual Reasons to Love New York issue Money

700
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: of Money, Kids Money, Kids Money Kids opening for bad Bridget.

701
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: And Zebulan this weekend.

702
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: It sounds like what happened is a parent of another

703
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: student at Stuyvesant heard about MO and then pass the

704
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: story along to his colleagues at the magazine. Just how

705
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: rumors start and continue, and then a reporter named Jessica

706
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: Presler is assigned to cover the story. So Jessica's story

707
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: unquestionably categorizes the seventy two million figure as a rumor.

708
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 3: She's like a journals, She's not going to be like

709
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 3: it's true, she writes. Quote.

710
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: Rumors on Wall Street can be powerful. A whisper can

711
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: turn into a current that moves markets, driving a stock

712
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: price up or sending it tumbling. There may only be

713
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: one other place where gossip holds such sway, and that

714
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: is high schools school.

715
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 3: I was going to see that.

716
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: It's so clear that it's like I heard he made

717
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: seventy two million, seventy two millions, seventy It sounds like

718
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: a joke amount, Yeah, because it's absurd.

719
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

720
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: She writes that Mo is shy about confirming that exact number,

721
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: but says that his net worth is in the quote

722
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: high eight figures, okay, quote, so he's kind of confirming it.

723
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

724
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: In the article, Jessica writes about sitting down with Mo

725
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: and two of his friends who act as his spokesman.

726
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: I think they're a lot more gregarious and outgoing and

727
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: most pretty shy, most miles at the reporter and one

728
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,479
Speaker 1: of his friends, a boy named Patrick, says, quote, he's

729
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: quiet today and like they're almost just like talking for him.

730
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: The other friend, a teen named Demir, adds, quote, this

731
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: is our third meeting of the day. We saw a

732
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: real estate agent, a lawyer, and you end quote, and

733
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: Jessica writes that they have a meeting with a hedge

734
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: fund guy next. So they're like acting like movers and

735
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: shakers there.

736
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: But it's like, you're young, you have your whole life

737
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: to do boring shit like that, like that idea where

738
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: it's just making money, make money, but also just kind

739
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: of like, hey, listen, we've got to go meet with

740
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: a really state agent. It's like, well, enjoy your meeting.

741
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: It's almost like that's like thirty somethings real'll do, and

742
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: it's like annoying, like that makes more sense for a

743
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: teenager to do it, to.

744
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: Get into where it's like we're going to spend money

745
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: in that.

746
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little less disgusting, but still. The three

747
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: say that they plan to launch a hedge fund up

748
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: their own when Moe turns eighteen, once he's old enough

749
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: to get a broker dealer license, so maybe he can deal,

750
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: but he doesn't can't get a license. This whole interview

751
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: takes place at a downtown cafe where the boys eat

752
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: caviar and drink cold pressed apple juice.

753
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: No, they're babies, what a combo?

754
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: H that can't be. Yeah, it's really that's disgusting.

755
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: Mo Hint said he's he's shopping for a BMW and

756
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: apartments and even though his parents won't let him move

757
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: out until he's eighteen. And at the end of the interview,

758
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: Demir says, quote, my father has a quote.

759
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: It's really dope, says the teenate.

760
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: You can rob a bank with a gun, but you

761
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: can rob the whole world with a bank.

762
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: I kind of fucking love.

763
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Yeah, I think we've really learned that here

764
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, that that is, you sure have

765
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 2: absolutely not an exaggeration.

766
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: Now, before the article is published, New York Magazine's fact

767
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: checkers get in contact with Mo asking for a proof

768
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: that his claims of an income in the high eight

769
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: figures is true. The fact checker winds up going down

770
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: to Stuyvesant so that Mo can provide a bank statement,

771
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: and Moe gives the magazine what appears to be a

772
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: Chase Bank statement confirming an eight figure balance. So they

773
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: did do fair dude, diligent, jude, jude diligence.

774
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: You can't say that, not on Saint Patrick's day.

775
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 3: Yes, so many drugs.

776
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: The day the article is published, it completely blows up

777
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: everyone who sits at a desk in twenty fourteen, who

778
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: spends some of their workdays scrolling on Twitter, reads this

779
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: article let's say goes viral. Yeah, it gets picked up

780
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: by other outlets. The New York Post, of course, runs

781
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 1: the story and puts that seventy two million dollar number

782
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: in the headline, kind of being you know, they're not

783
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: the biggest fact checkers of all times, so they're just like.

784
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: Because you said it was like the twenty teens, right, fourteen, Yeah,

785
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: so it's people are getting into clickbait exactly. People love

786
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: a clickbait headline click.

787
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: Sure do, doesn't matter if it's true, and it's picked

788
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: up by many other sites, and like kind of then

789
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: treat it as fact in a way.

790
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a little experience with that, as do

791
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: you sure do.

792
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: But then pretty quickly, like a bunch of people, stop

793
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: and really think about the details. A return of seventy

794
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: two million dollars in just a couple of years of

795
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: investing is basically basically impossible, like not even just unheard of,

796
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: It's not possible. Business reporters immediately start to have doubts,

797
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: as Ken Curson from The New York Observer will later write, quote,

798
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: even if this working class kid had somehow started with

799
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars as a high school freshman on

800
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: day one at STY, he'd have needed to average a

801
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: compounded annualized return of something like seven hundred and ninety

802
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: six percent over the three years since then.

803
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 3: He says, come on, man, end quote.

804
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: So Mo and Demir are invited to appear on CNBC

805
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: to talk about this their investment strategy because they're fucking

806
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: wiz kids.

807
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: Hey man.

808
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

809
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: But while they're on their way to the studio, you know,

810
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: as the story is blowing up, the Business Insider reporter,

811
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: who've had featured Mo on the list of the kid

812
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: investor story, calls and starts asking them some follow up questions.

813
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: Late.

814
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: At this point, Demir confirms to the reporter that that

815
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: seventy two million dollar number is a rumor, but he says,

816
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: quote pretty sure Mo is a great trader and a

817
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: genius end quote like su what's it called dialing it back? Oh?

818
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, having to walk it back.

819
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. The CNBC studios are across the Hudson River in

820
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: New Jersey, so by the time the boys get there,

821
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: they're pretty rattled because clearly people are onto them.

822
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 3: Mo at first doesn't.

823
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: Want to get out of the car even which is

824
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: my god, I've been there. Eventually, some producers coax the

825
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: boy into the building and they're brought to the office

826
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: of CNBC's editor in chief. Like so now adults are

827
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: like asking them more questions and that you might get

828
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: in trouble now.

829
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: Also just the idea of coaxing them out of the car,

830
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: just like, look, we got Capri Son's Atari or whatever.

831
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 3: Caviar and apple, fresh pressed apple juices.

832
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 2: What kind of video games do you like? Boys? All

833
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: the fresh press cold press apple juice you could drink.

834
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: And this man who's the CNBC's editor in chief used

835
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: to be an editor at the Wall Street Journal, so

836
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: he knows.

837
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 3: What questions to ask.

838
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: He starts asking Moo explain his strategy and say exactly

839
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 1: how much money is involved, you know, like don't throw

840
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: out rumor numbers. Motrice is best to answer. And then

841
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: the guy says it isn't seventy two million, is it?

842
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: And Moe confirms that it is not and claims that

843
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: he's made a profit closer to three million, which is

844
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: a lot less than seventy two million.

845
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: Still impressive for a teen.

846
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: Some would say it's sixty nine million less, That's what

847
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: I would say, but who are we to say? It

848
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: is such a hilarious lie. And also I feel like

849
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 2: I remember reading that story when it was thealistical story. Yeah,

850
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: we're just like, what are these kids doing?

851
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 3: Totally?

852
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: The kids know what's going on.

853
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: Right, maybe I could do it, No, you can't.

854
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: And then the boys decline to go through with the

855
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: on air interview, which is smart, but CNBC reports what

856
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: they have learned, So the fucking is up that very evening,

857
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: Demir and Mo both seventeen years old, mind you hire

858
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: a crisis PR firm and then head straight from CNBC

859
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: to their offices to the crisis PR's office because they're

860
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: like fuck, But like they never It's like they were

861
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: just kind of nudging this thing along that the adults

862
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: were all offering them. They were seventeen years old, and

863
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: they're like, let's just tell them we did this, Let's

864
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: tell them we did that. Like it's kind of funny,

865
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: and let's pretend like we have, you know, the s

866
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: bravado that we don't have.

867
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we're exceptionally successful, right, but like the second

868
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: you go seventy two million dollars on penny stock, right,

869
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: or whatever. I mean, that's the thing that sticks out

870
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: to me of like, remember you're playing penny machines, you know.

871
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: I think penny machines are like how you get to

872
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: hang out and oops, get free drinks all night.

873
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, but you probably wouldn't get the Jackpodectly

874
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: of seventy two million off pennies.

875
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 3: To No, you wouldn't.

876
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: So once they get this PR firm, they sit down

877
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: with a reporter from the New York Observer and the

878
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: whole truth comes out. They tell them we were lying.

879
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 1: That the three million dollar profit that Moe claimed later

880
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: to have is also a lie, and that Muhammad has

881
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: only been placing simulated trades.

882
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 3: There's no money at all.

883
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: But I feel like they were just giving the adults

884
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: what they were asking for.

885
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean, we're extraordinary, we get

886
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: good grades, we go to this rat school, we can

887
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: do anything.

888
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: We just lied about dumb or shit when we were

889
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: in high school. They lied about something that adults cared about.

890
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: I guess.

891
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. They like instead of being like, I'm going to

892
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: be at Georgie's house, right, and then you're like I'm

893
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: going to be at Karen's house and then the big

894
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: lies we're drinking behind the grocery store.

895
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Those aren't my cigarettes. Those are Karen's cigarette. She asked

896
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: me to hold them for her.

897
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: You know how Georgia loves clothes, mom, She does it

898
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: every time I have to hold them.

899
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he hasn't made any money at all, and

900
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: Mo does say that if he had been investing money,

901
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: he would have done really well.

902
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: But it doesn't Yeah, I know me too. Mo tells the.

903
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: Reporter that his parents are furious with him about his lies.

904
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: He says, quote, Honestly, my dad wanted to disown me.

905
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 1: My mom basically said she'd never talk to me. Their

906
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: morals are that if I lie about it and don't

907
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: own up to it, then they can no longer trust me.

908
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: He's a fucking teenager.

909
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: He adds that he's been sleeping over at a friend's

910
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: house because his parents are so upset with him. He

911
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: doesn't want to say who, but it seems like Demir

912
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: is the one, and it seems like they're having a

913
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: great time and just like being teenagers. Yeah, and kind

914
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: of like reveling in this. It's like this thing that

915
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: keeps moving forward even though it shouldn't have a long

916
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: time ago.

917
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they made themselves a story, right, and the adults

918
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: fell for it. And there is a victory in that

919
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: if you're a seventeen year old in high school.

920
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: Totally like these fucking actual, like business people believed you. Meanwhile,

921
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Jessica Presler, remember the journalist who wrote that

922
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: original story, saying not saying it was true, but saying

923
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: these are the rumors. She defends her story, saying that

924
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: she saw the bank statement and that the New York

925
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: Magazine is in a financial publication anyways, so it's not

926
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: like a Wall Street journal where the questions would have

927
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: been asked about the actual earnings. But that's a misstep

928
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: because Jessica had been hired to work on a new

929
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: investigations team at Bloomberg, which is a financial publication, and

930
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: Bloomberg winds up we're sending the job off for I

931
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: think she kind of gets some egg on her face

932
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 1: from it. But Jessica does stay at New York Magazine

933
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: and goes on to report some very juicy stories in

934
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: the future, and she does have a redemption arc. She

935
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: will later say that she had a funny feeling about

936
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: the story and asked her editor to check it out

937
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: before running it, which is what they're supposed to do,

938
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: and that that didn't happen. New York Magazine changes the

939
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: headline on the story to take out that seventy two

940
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,479
Speaker 1: million dollar number and adds a note at the top

941
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: explaining the situation.

942
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 3: The note says, quote, we were duped.

943
00:47:59,080 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

944
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: Ali wrote a note to me saying I was a

945
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: CUB reporter at Bloomberg when all of this was happening.

946
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: Whoa Alli, my fucking incredible researcher. Yeah, there was a

947
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: she said there was a commotion. Jessica Pressler does fine.

948
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: In the end, she writes the article that becomes the

949
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: basis for the movie Hustlers. Yes, right, and later winds

950
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: up reporting the Anna Delvi story.

951
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 3: Oh so she does Okay, she is fine. Yeah, she

952
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 3: like proves herself well.

953
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: And I think doesn't that kind of point back to

954
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: that's the kind of journalism, like you were saying, it's

955
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: not finance journalism.

956
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: It's grabby personality based.

957
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 2: Yes, it's very internetty, like can you believe this is real? Whatever?

958
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah?

959
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: And that is like it's almost like human interest of

960
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 2: did you even know there was a person like this?

961
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 3: Right? Right?

962
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: So the New York Observer reporter Ken Curson wraps up

963
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: his article like this quote. No one asked for my opinion,

964
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: but I'm going to provide it anyway.

965
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 3: Love that cool.

966
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Having sat with these kids for a good bit on

967
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: a tough day, they got carried way. They're not children,

968
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: but they're not quite adults either, And at least mister

969
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: Islam was literally quaking as we spoke. So I feel

970
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: like his like boisterous friends were like, you know, say it, dad,

971
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: and like it just became bigger than it was supposed to.

972
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: And it just so happened that they were in fucking

973
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: Manhattan and so it became huge.

974
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: Also, don't you think that not his name is Mo,

975
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: Mo's friend. There's one guy in there, and you know

976
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 2: the type, and he's mister big personality. He's the personality figh,

977
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 2: he's so fun, energy, energy, energy, ideas, ideas, good times.

978
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the he spread that rumor. I bet hell, yes,

979
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:39,959
Speaker 1: you know what my friend?

980
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 3: Did you know? My friend?

981
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: Like you know what we're gonna do. We're gonna eat

982
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: fucking caviar and apple juice all day? Do you want

983
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 2: to come with us? Like? Yeah, there's that where the

984
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: guy that has the goods. Yeah, they're like, we're going

985
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: to do a bunch of stuff because of you.

986
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: You're our smartest friend. We're going to spread a rumor

987
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: about you.

988
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: I'm the loudest friend.

989
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 3: I'm the loudest, you're the smartest.

990
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: Let's do this. Now, there's a third guy, because there's

991
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: always a third guy always.

992
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: So yeah, they should have known better. But New York

993
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: and the New York Post probably should have as well.

994
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: This story smelled fishy the instant it appeared, and a

995
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: quick dance with a calculator probably would have saved these

996
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: young men and a couple of reporters some embarrassment.

997
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: End quote.

998
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: Oh that's his quote. A quick dance with a calculator

999
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: is such a funny way.

1000
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's the part of Ken's quote.

1001
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: And that is the story of a rumor that swept

1002
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 1: the halls of Stuyvesant High School and briefly fooled the world,

1003
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: or at least some of the world story of Mohammed Islam.

1004
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: As you were kind of like wrapping it down, It's like,

1005
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: these are kids at an incredibly competitive high school. Yeah,

1006
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: we're excelling at anything. You have to do it, and

1007
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 2: you're used to being top three in your class now

1008
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: right bottom twenty right, it makes sense that you'd be well,

1009
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: maybe this will make me special, maybe this will make

1010
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: me stand out.

1011
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 3: Let me spread this rumor. It goes a little too far.

1012
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: We got money, baby, We're getting invited a party.

1013
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,479
Speaker 3: My parents are mad at me. Oh shit, I.

1014
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: Have to talk to a reporter and it's making me shaite.

1015
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm bringing my friend, so he's going to

1016
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: do it.

1017
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 2: He's going to mouth off. She there's your podcast right there. There,

1018
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: you go there it is.

1019
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: Well, thank you and for listening everyone, and thank you

1020
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: for you know, Saint Patrick.

1021
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 2: Do you think maybe we thank Saint Patrick for getting

1022
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: rid of all the snakes. Oh that's what he did, right,

1023
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: I think?

1024
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 3: So? Okay, I have Wellvince will like that he hates snakes.

1025
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should go over there.

1026
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: Okay, we're in green celebrate thank you.

1027
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: I couldn't blar I found this. The green I had

1028
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 2: on was such a non green color, and I was like, oh,

1029
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 2: I don't really have anything, and then all of a sudden,

1030
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: I look over.

1031
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: You have to wear yeah, you have to wear it,

1032
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: have to represent definitely, well you did it, and thanks

1033
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: for representing here everyone.

1034
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: We appreciate you guys listening.

1035
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: Hey, and just remember you can do anything if you

1036
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 2: have two sisters along with you, because that's really the

1037
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 2: that's the magic of all of this.

1038
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: My right, you are, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

1039
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 3: Do you want a cookie?

1040
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

1041
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1042
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: is Tessa Hughes.

1043
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: Our editor is Aristotle Lascevedo.

1044
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

1045
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Mayor McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1046
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

1047
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: Com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1048
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1049
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1050
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1051
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1052
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: the remind me buttons.

1053
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 3: That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye,