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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds.

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Speaker 2: And Samuel Alito's wife claims that the upside down American

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Speaker 2: flag was an international sign of distress.

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Speaker 3: We have such a great show today.

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Speaker 2: NBC's Mike Hickson Blasstopspy to talk to us about his

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Speaker 2: new book, They Came for the Schools, One Town's fight

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Speaker 2: over race and identity in the New War for America's Classrooms.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to the States Projects Melissa Walker about

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Speaker 2: how they're helping Dems to win elections with giving circles.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the host of the Enemy's List,

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Speaker 2: the Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 4: Mollie John Fast, I join you. Much recovered from the

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Speaker 4: pneumonia which had stricken me in our previous encounter.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you sound really good.

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Speaker 4: I am feeling enormously better. Gods modern medicine.

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Speaker 5: Yes, you know who did not have a good night

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Speaker 5: last night?

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Speaker 4: That would be dipshit Trump at the Libertarian Convention. I

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Speaker 4: wrote a piece about it this morning on Substack called

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Speaker 4: Atlas Thugged he got his ass eaten.

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Speaker 3: Ugh, I'm here for it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. The Libertarian convention. I just

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Speaker 1: want you to talk for a minute about you've been

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Speaker 1: to libertarian conventions, you know this strange species. Explain to

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Speaker 1: our listeners who they are and what they do.

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Speaker 4: As I like to tell people, I have a kind

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Speaker 4: of genial, small L libertarian streak in me. I believe

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Speaker 4: that individual liberty is really important.

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Speaker 3: I believe that.

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Speaker 4: The state and the power of government over the lives

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Speaker 4: of individuals should be as minimally invasive as possible and

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Speaker 4: as minimally coercive as possible. I would sooner go into

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Speaker 4: a weak, old dumpster behind old Uncle Tomaine shrimpshack than

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Speaker 4: be a registered big L libertarian in the Libertarian Party,

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Speaker 4: because those people are the biggest group of beardy, weirdy

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Speaker 4: and cell crypto fuck bros you have ever encountered in

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Speaker 4: your life. These are people who think Anne Rand actually

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Speaker 4: is a good writer. These are terrible, terrible human beings

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Speaker 4: who are the strangest, angriest, most egregiously obsessive. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there are so many phrases I could use here, all

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Speaker 4: of which would get you and me both canceled immediately.

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Speaker 3: But this is weaponized autism and it's worst.

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Speaker 5: See.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to push back on you here because I

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Speaker 1: am very friendly with nichol Aspie, who, while I don't

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Speaker 1: agree with a lot of his beliefs, he's a really

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Speaker 1: a lovely guy. And I think there are some very

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Speaker 1: smart Libertarians.

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Speaker 4: Yes there are. You'll notice none of them. What I

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Speaker 4: said was that they were dumb. They're just weird, okay,

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Speaker 4: and they believe in weird things. They believe in odd

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Speaker 4: they have an odd belief set. And I'm going to

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Speaker 4: tell you something, none of none of the people that

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Speaker 4: are devoted enough to go to the Libertarian presidential nominating

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Speaker 4: convention are normal people they believe in And look, here's

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Speaker 4: the crowning irony of this. You ended up with the

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Speaker 4: libertarians who believe that freedom is but a moment away

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Speaker 4: from being utterly extinguished in this country, bringing the most

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Speaker 4: authoritarian and statist presidential candidate running in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 4: onto the stage, and let's remember he is surrounded by

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Speaker 4: people who are backing the idea of Project twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 4: which is not exactly what you would call a recipe

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Speaker 4: for limited government. These people are expansive in their power

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Speaker 4: of the state and government.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that I think is interesting

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Speaker 1: about this, and you're a campaign guy, so I'd love

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Speaker 1: you to speak about this, is that this was an

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Speaker 1: unforced error, like Biden was invited to speak at this thing,

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Speaker 1: and he was like a normal Democratic presidential candidate, like

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Speaker 1: no way. And the reality is like the fact that

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Speaker 1: Trump did it is kind of bad candidate ness, right,

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Speaker 1: bad campaigning, isn't it. I mean, you'll have this visual

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Speaker 1: of him getting booed. What does that do for him?

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Speaker 4: Somebody's getting fired over this one. Even if Trump said

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Speaker 4: I want to go, I can convince them. Only I

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Speaker 4: can convince them this was bad planning. They did not

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Speaker 4: read the room properly well in advance, they did not

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Speaker 4: read the room properly.

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Speaker 3: On the evening of the.

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Speaker 4: Event, they allowed him to walk on the stage. And folks,

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Speaker 4: if you haven't seen the libertarian parties become ungovernable logo,

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Speaker 4: I want you to think back to your trapper keeper

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Speaker 4: in high school in nineteen ninety two, because that's the

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Speaker 4: sort of scribble that you would have had on it.

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Speaker 3: Become ungovernable.

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Speaker 4: Okay, cool, But he's up on the stage. The room

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Speaker 4: is badly let He's behind this horrifying logo. Folks, what

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Speaker 4: I tell you, it's a terrible logo. Just google the

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Speaker 4: damn thing. And he gets up on stage and he's

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Speaker 4: getting booed, he's getting yelled at, he's getting called it

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Speaker 4: a hypocrite, and all the crazies are holding their signs

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Speaker 4: up in front of the cameras blocking the view of Trump,

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Speaker 4: and the entire night was a train wreck.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was like the clown train to burning tire Mountain.

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Speaker 4: This guy gets up there and starts saying I want

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Speaker 4: you votes and your indorsement, and they're literally laughing at him. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it is an amazingly bad moment. He was flailing to

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Speaker 4: He finally starts saying, like, I will give you more

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Speaker 4: than two percent of the vote, three percent of the

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Speaker 4: you want to be winners, come with. Here's the fundamental

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Speaker 4: thing he's missing out on. The Libertarians don't care about winning.

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Speaker 4: If they cared about winning, they would name people to

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Speaker 4: the top of their ticket who could what's the word win?

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Speaker 4: And again, I have no sympathy for Donald Trump thinking

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Speaker 4: he could persuade these people. But there are enough folks

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Speaker 4: around Donald Trump, who are not stupid, who are not idiots.

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Speaker 4: And I got to tell you, I think they must

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Speaker 4: have been taking the weekend off, because he really got

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Speaker 4: his head handed to him at this event. It was

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Speaker 4: really ugly, folks. If you watch the video, it's out

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Speaker 4: there on YouTube, It's out there on CSPAN. If you

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Speaker 4: watch the video, this guy he was really off his game,

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Speaker 4: which I think is more and more of the case.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he has the game he had in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty or twenty sixteen, and in a very hostile room,

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Speaker 4: he was uncomfortable and I'm here for it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the headlines from it say things like keep

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Speaker 1: getting your three percent. Trump mock's libertarians in bid to

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Speaker 1: win their votes.

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Speaker 5: That's yahoo.

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Speaker 1: No wanna be dictators, Trump booed at Libertarian convention. He's

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Speaker 1: more delusional than I thought. Libertarians jeer Trump. During convention speech,

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Speaker 1: Trump met with Booze asking libertarians for nomination. Trump tells

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Speaker 1: libertarians to nominate him and a mock him with Booze.

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Speaker 1: That's the New York Times.

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Speaker 3: The don loses control the video. MAGA does not want

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Speaker 3: you to see.

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Speaker 5: Matt Drudge right, Wow, I mean, just incredible.

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Speaker 4: He got a brutal, brutal reception there, and look, let's

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Speaker 4: be honest, he deserves it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm hoping you could pull back and

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Speaker 1: make another connection for me.

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Speaker 5: So this is Trump being Trump.

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Speaker 1: Right. Maybe there was someone who worked for the campaign

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Speaker 1: who thought he should go to the Libertarian Convention, but

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Speaker 1: it's very likely, well.

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Speaker 4: Mike Lee clearly thought he should go. Mike Lee, I

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Speaker 4: think might have facilitated this because Mike Lee went out

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Speaker 4: and tried to pitch Trump, saying, you know, he's a

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Speaker 4: great libertarian president.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that I want to point

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Speaker 1: out is like, so Trump has this legal case, this

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Speaker 1: criminal trial in New York, the one that he was

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Speaker 1: not able to punt, and it's going to wrap up

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, and during it, his lawyers have made a

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Speaker 1: number of unforced errors, and you have to wonder how

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Speaker 1: much you know, some of his lawyers are bad, but

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Speaker 1: some of them, you know, are lifelong prosecutors, have had

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience, Susan Hofstetter, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the things they've done during this trial have seemed nonsensical,

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Speaker 1: as if they were being told what to do by

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Speaker 1: someone who didn't really understand the law, and so you

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Speaker 1: have to wonder how much of that is also Trump

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Speaker 1: trying to drive the Trump trains.

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Speaker 3: You could see at.

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Speaker 4: A number of inflection points during the trial in Manhattan

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Speaker 4: that Trump was directing the strategy of his own attorneys. Now,

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Speaker 4: you know the old a lawyer or a doctor who

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Speaker 4: has himself for a client is necessarily a fool. But

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Speaker 4: a lawyer who allows Donald Trump to tell him how

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Speaker 4: to or her how to handle their legal operations is

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Speaker 4: equally a fool.

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Speaker 3: And so that's why that's right. Essentially, you could see.

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Speaker 4: That Trump when Stormy Daniels was on the stand, Trump

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Speaker 4: was essentially saying, call her ahola, call her aha make

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Speaker 4: or admit she's a hoola, you know. And with Cohen's

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Speaker 4: on the stand, he wants them to punch him as

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Speaker 4: you're a liar and a criminal. You're a liar and

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Speaker 4: a criminal, you know. And Stormy Daniels, of course, very

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Speaker 4: coolly and very smartly, just said, I'm an adult entertainer. Okay, next,

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Speaker 4: what's your next question? Moving on? And Michael Cohen, to

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Speaker 4: his credit for the most part, was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: was working for a very bad guy, doing very bad

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Speaker 4: things at his orders and Finally, when they brought Costello

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Speaker 4: to the stand. You know, that was also one of

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Speaker 4: these things where I think Trump thought, oh, we can

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Speaker 4: make a great defense argument from Costello, and Costello may

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Speaker 4: have single handedly torpedoed the defense's case. So all these

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Speaker 4: things with Trump thinking he's smarter than the people who

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Speaker 4: he's hired to do the things that he needs to do,

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Speaker 4: whether it's the campaign or whether it's the legal stuff,

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Speaker 4: he comes across over and over again in a position

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Speaker 4: where he ends up being, you know, worse served than

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Speaker 4: he would have if he just picked some body at

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Speaker 4: random and let them do their job.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it is, you know, he has

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Speaker 1: some really bad instincts places where candidate Trump actually really hurts.

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Speaker 5: Well, now he has some.

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Speaker 1: Good instincts because people like to see him and look,

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Speaker 1: that rally in the Bronx did what he wanted it

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Speaker 1: to do. It made other voters think he wasn't a racist, right.

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Speaker 4: Well, the other part of it is he convinced a

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Speaker 4: lot of reporters who absolutely knew better that tens of

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Speaker 4: thousands of people were swarming to Unnald Trump. They love

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Speaker 4: him in the Bronx and the Bronxes in play, y'all.

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Speaker 4: If the Bronx is in play, it's the damn apocalypse.

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Speaker 3: It's not in play.

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Speaker 4: I find the whole conceit that Trump is somehow wiser

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Speaker 4: and smarter and more capable than the people advising him.

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Speaker 4: It actually makes me optimistic, because he does stupid things,

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Speaker 4: and people like me can manipulate him into doing incredibly

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Speaker 4: stupid things from time to time. And so I think

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Speaker 4: that he is going to continue to believe that he

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Speaker 4: is his own best lawyer, his own best political consultant,

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Speaker 4: his own best image consultant. And while it works, sometimes

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Speaker 4: when you see it confront reality, it doesn't work quite

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Speaker 4: as well. It didn't work in twenty twenty. I don't

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Speaker 4: think it's going to work the same way this time,

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Speaker 4: and I certainly don't think it worked in court for him.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people who listen to this podcast are

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Speaker 1: really stressed about the elections and the polls.

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Speaker 5: What do you tell them?

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Speaker 4: In twenty twenty, we were confronted with a flood of

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Speaker 4: polls constantly, Donald Trump is He's going to win?

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump? Is this?

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump? Is that we were confronted in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: The red wave is coming it's endless. Republicans have learned

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Speaker 4: how to game the polling averages very effectively. Okay, they've

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Speaker 4: learned how to play the game of dumping tons and

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Speaker 4: tons of low quality polls and pushing the polling averages. Look,

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Speaker 4: is Joe Biden where I wanted to be in every

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Speaker 4: swing state survey?

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Speaker 3: He is not.

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Speaker 4: Does Donald Trump still have a significant hold over the

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Speaker 4: g he does. Are there more voters in the wind

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Speaker 4: than there were before? Yes, I am optimistic about that

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Speaker 4: at a profound level. I have told people repeatedly this

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Speaker 4: will never be an easy election. It was never going

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Speaker 4: to be an easy race. It was never going to

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Speaker 4: be a fun race. It was never going to be

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Speaker 4: a race where you wake up in the morning and go, man,

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Speaker 4: I wish we were running every election like this. What

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Speaker 4: could go wrong? Because it's a misery. It's tough, it's

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Speaker 4: a hard race, and the Biden campaign is starting to

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Speaker 4: publicly say that they get it that they have to

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Speaker 4: go more aggressive against the guy. They have to push harder,

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Speaker 4: they have to be right up in his grill all

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Speaker 4: the time. They get it. They're starting to get it,

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Speaker 4: at least they're starting to get that. The messaging cannot

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Speaker 4: be driven by policy questions. You're not going to win

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Speaker 4: this election based on arguments about parts per billion of

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Speaker 4: carbon in the atmosphere. You are going to have to

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Speaker 4: win this election based on convincing people the economy is

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Speaker 4: not mad Max Healscape. You are going to have to

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Speaker 4: win this election based on that Donald Trump presents a

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Speaker 4: risk to American women that is so beyond and most

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Speaker 4: people's understandings that when you tell them the story of

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Speaker 4: what they want to do to American women, you will

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Speaker 4: split off a lot of them. When you tell Republicans,

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Speaker 4: soft Republican voters that they're going to have to live

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Speaker 4: with the consequences of their children growing up with Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump as president a second time. See how that goes.

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Speaker 4: They do rebel against Trump. There's a lot of ways

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Speaker 4: to beat this guy, but you have to do them

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Speaker 4: all because you don't know which one's going to work.

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Speaker 3: And then look at Lincoln.

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Speaker 4: We're doing our thing that we do talking to those

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Speaker 4: soft Republican voters and messing with Trump. Those are our

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Speaker 4: two lanes. I'm not trying to go out and get

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Speaker 4: African American voters turn up. That's not where my area

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Speaker 4: of expertise is people have to work their lane, work

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Speaker 4: their skill set, push as hard as they can in

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Speaker 4: their zone, and everybody's going to do a lot of

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Speaker 4: work between now and the election day.

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Speaker 3: This is never going to be an easy one. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 4: But he's beatable, Molly. He's beatable, and that means you

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Speaker 4: have to beat him. Beata bull does not mean he's

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Speaker 4: going to lose automatically.

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Speaker 1: What states do you see a little bit of release

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Speaker 1: to be optimistic that might not otherwise be on the map.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you one right off the top, and that's Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 4: I've been seeing some motion moving in Biden's direction in

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Speaker 4: Pennsylvania down ballot and at at the top line. You

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Speaker 4: know what, And I will just tell you right now.

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Speaker 4: I was not comfortable with saying this earlier, but I

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Speaker 4: now feel like Georgia might be starting to be in

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Speaker 4: play maybe a little bit.

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Speaker 5: All right, I know.

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Speaker 4: I'll be honest, I'm feeling a little less sanguine about

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Speaker 4: Arizona because that seems to be slipping a little bit.

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Speaker 3: But we are in a moment.

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Speaker 5: Where anything can happen.

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Speaker 4: Yes, a lot of externalities will obtain a lot of

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Speaker 4: chaos is going to be pushing and pushing and pushing

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Speaker 4: up against us, and a lot of it is what

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Speaker 4: Trump will do. Trump will be the source of much

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Speaker 4: of the chaos and much of the dissension and much

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Speaker 4: of the insanity that's going to come out and end

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Speaker 4: up harming him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely true. It's definitely true. That is the

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Speaker 1: good news in a way and not the bad news.

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Speaker 1: Just one more saying about these polls. Have you noticed

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Speaker 1: how much Democrats down the ticket overperformed the partisan Yep.

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Speaker 4: Look, that's the same thing we saw in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty and in twenty twenty two. And yes,

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Speaker 4: people go, well, the Republicans took what the structural things

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Speaker 4: in the House with redistricting and Jerrymander and all that,

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Speaker 4: those are what they are. We're not going to be

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Speaker 4: in the era where we have massive swings in the

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Speaker 4: House anymore. We will have close splits there. But the

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Speaker 4: Democrats in House races are overperformed. Yeah, the Democrats in

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Speaker 4: a lot of Senate races are overperforming. A lot of

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Speaker 4: places where the Republicans felt very confident that they were

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Speaker 4: going to.

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Speaker 3: Just roll it up.

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Speaker 4: Are they are less confident than they were a few

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Speaker 4: months ago. The negative quality of their candidates, the low

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Speaker 4: quality of their candidates, is also becoming a significant burden

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Speaker 4: on the Republicans. They've got basically one decent US Senate

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Speaker 4: candidate right now who's got much need to spend that

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Speaker 4: Stave McCormick, and even he is not blowing the doors

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Speaker 4: off in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: And so we have a very interesting and very.

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Speaker 4: Opaque political situation coming where if the Democrats in these

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Speaker 4: states right now overperform, if they end up, you know,

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Speaker 4: starting to open up some real range on the Republicans,

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Speaker 4: you may find that that starts to impact the presidential race.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're we're looking.

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Speaker 4: Right now at North Carolina because Robinson, the Republican governor.

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Speaker 1: Canada, recently said women were to Mauley, right, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: like Maldi women.

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Speaker 3: They said women or two mouthy. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Look, he is the Doug Mastriano of North Carolina. And

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Speaker 4: if you want to know why Josh Shapiro is in

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Speaker 4: office in Pennsylvania, it's because Doug Masterano poisoned to the

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Speaker 4: whole ticket. You wonder why Katie Hobbs is in office

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Speaker 4: because Kerrie Lake and Blake Master's poisoned the whole ticket.

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Speaker 4: We may end up with North Carolina being competitive in

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Speaker 4: the presidential race because of insanity on the part of

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Speaker 4: this guy who is I mean, he makes Doug mastera

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Speaker 4: looked like Winston.

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Speaker 5: Churchill Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, as always, my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Spring us here, and I bet you are trying to

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Speaker 1: look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

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00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,919
Speaker 1: new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

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Speaker 1: with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

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Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some, head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 2: Mike hickson Ball is a senior reporter at NBC and

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Speaker 2: author of They Came for the Schools, One Towns Fight

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Speaker 2: over Race and Identity and the New War for America's Classrooms.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Mike, Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Delighted to have you so talk to me about the book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So the book is called They Came for the Schools,

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Speaker 6: and it tell us the story of what's happened in

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Speaker 6: the past few years in our schools as the right

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Speaker 6: and then specifically the Christian right, have waged kind of

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Speaker 6: an all out assault and an attempt to impose a

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Speaker 6: certain worldview in our public school systems, and I tell

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Speaker 6: that story through the lens of one town in North Texas.

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Speaker 6: That kind of represents what's been happening in America. So

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Speaker 6: the goal with the book was, if you're sitting in

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Speaker 6: the suburbs outside of Philadelphia or Georgia, in Atlanta, or

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Speaker 6: outside Nashville, and you've seen angry parents packing school board

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Speaker 6: meetings complaining about well, critical race theory or woke gender

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Speaker 6: ideology or trying to ban books, that you could read

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Speaker 6: the story of Souft Lake, Texas and understand why that's

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Speaker 6: happening in your town.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it working well?

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Speaker 6: I think we all remember in twenty twenty one when

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Speaker 6: we were suddenly seeing school board meetings leading national news

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Speaker 6: coverage as parents were revolting against what Chris Rupo and

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump had called critical race theory. At that time,

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Speaker 6: Steve Bannon went on his national podcast TV show The

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Speaker 6: War Room and declared that the key to saving America

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Speaker 6: runs through the school boards. And what he meant was,

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Speaker 6: we're going to win back suburban white voters who were

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Speaker 6: repulsed by Donald Trump by running hard on this anti

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Speaker 6: DEI program through local school board elections. And so we'll

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Speaker 6: retake school boards, but in the process we'll win back

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Speaker 6: these voters, win back state houses, win back Congress, take

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Speaker 6: the presidency, and save America. Right, you asked, is it working.

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Speaker 6: We'll just skip to the end here.

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Speaker 1: Basically, the idea was save America from diversity, right from

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Speaker 1: anyone who wasn't a white Christian man.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know, really it was a Donald Trump

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Speaker 6: back in office, really, and Steve Bannon's theory of the case,

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Speaker 6: in Chris Rufo's theory of the case that these school

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Speaker 6: board fights were going to be this major driver of

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Speaker 6: electoral success Republicans, it hasn't really played out. Instead, what

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Speaker 6: they've successfully done is they've taken all of just the

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Speaker 6: ugliest divisiveness of national politics and just superimpose that onto

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Speaker 6: what used to be pretty quiet non partis and local

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Speaker 6: school board elections. And so what you have now is

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Speaker 6: national political consultants running really divisive campaigns in local elections

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Speaker 6: accusing these local basically unpaid school board trustees of trying

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Speaker 6: to destroy America, being sexual predators, trying to groom children

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Speaker 6: change their genders. All this really ugly unfounded, divisive attack

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Speaker 6: that you're used to seeing in like a congressional race

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Speaker 6: that's now standard and our school board races. And if

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Speaker 6: you're a school district that was a Trump plus twenty district,

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Speaker 6: well the anti crch folks are going to win. And

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Speaker 6: if you're in a purpowl district where Biden did well,

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Speaker 6: then you're going to beat the monster Liberty. So they're

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Speaker 6: not changing hearts and minds, they're just tearing communities apart.

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Speaker 5: Wow, So what does that look like? I mean, how

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Speaker 5: do they do that?

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Speaker 6: So the storytell again is focused on this town outside

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Speaker 6: of Dallas and Fort Worth called South It's a very

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Speaker 6: affluent suburb, and like a lot of suburbs, it's a

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Speaker 6: place that was white by design, created in the nineteen

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Speaker 6: fifties after Brownie Board, and for a long time was

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Speaker 6: very white and for the last thirty years has gotten

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Speaker 6: much more diverse. And so this is the community that

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Speaker 6: really set off this fight that the same pattern we've

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Speaker 6: seen all over the country. School districts during the Trump

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Speaker 6: years tried to reckon with racism in these communities and

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Speaker 6: in their school districts. There was the blowback in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 6: and so what South Lake Conservatives did led by this

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Speaker 6: is a very affluent city, so there's people like Dana

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Speaker 6: lash who lives there. It's the former NRA spokeswoman Stiva

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Speaker 6: Southlake President. So she and others got together and put

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Speaker 6: together a political action committee called south Lake Families Path

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Speaker 6: to Defeat a local diversity plan. In twenty twenty and

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty one, they raised like two one hundred and

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Speaker 6: fifty thousand dollars, put together a slate of conservative kind

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Speaker 6: of form right school board candidates, including one candidate who

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Speaker 6: was like the former clerk for Sam Alito and Clarence

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Speaker 6: Thomas on this is a pre court, so like big

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Speaker 6: name people on the right kind of getting involved, and

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Speaker 6: they took over their school board by kind of launching

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Speaker 6: this attack accusing the other candidates of being on this

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Speaker 6: mission to destroy America with woken doctrination. And what happened

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Speaker 6: in the spring of twenty twenty one when Southflake Family's

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Speaker 6: pack did that, their election was really the first one

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Speaker 6: of these, and so their triumph in that election led

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Speaker 6: to lord Ingram's program in May of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 6: It was a symbol to Republicans everywhere that oh, we

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Speaker 6: can again do with Steve benn said, save America through

439
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 6: the school boards. And so what happened after that is

440
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 6: South Lakes Families Pack style political action committees cropped up

441
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 6: in communities all over the country. There's a Williamson Families

442
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 6: Pack in the suburbs outside of Tennessee. Outside of Nashville,

443
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 6: there's a Francis Howell Famili's Pack. On the west side

444
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 6: of Saint Louis. There's a Lakes Travis Stanley's Pack. Now

445
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 6: outside of Austin, dozens of these political action committees riving

446
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 6: the same strategy, trying to take control of school board

447
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 6: words and ban LGBTQ equision policies, ban DEI trainings, make

448
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 6: sure kids learn a patriotic version of America's history.

449
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 5: What does a patriotic version of America's history look like?

450
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 6: Well, remember this is all watched like in the summer

451
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 6: of twenty twenty when some of us thought we were

452
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 6: having kind of be reckoning in America over the history

453
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 6: of race and racism. And so a patriotic history is

454
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 6: one where you don't discuss the sixteen nineteen projects gramming

455
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 6: that looks at the lasting legacy of slavery, and so

456
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 6: there's literally laws that have been passed in Texas and

457
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 6: in other states and at the local level saying well,

458
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 6: if you can teach the kids about lavery, but you

459
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 6: have to tell them that it is not reflective of

460
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 6: America's true and good founding ideals, and that anytime you

461
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 6: talk about these divisive subjects, their language is these are

462
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 6: divisive subjects. You have to present all both perspectives, all perspectives,

463
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 6: and you can't teach kids that America was fundam mentally

464
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 6: or systemically racist. And in Texas especially, they apply that

465
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 6: also to the state history, and so you can't teach

466
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 6: kids that Texas was inherently racist, that it's founding even

467
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 6: though it's founding documents were really built around the idea

468
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 6: of maintaining slavery.

469
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, so basically they don't teach real history, is what

470
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 5: you're saying.

471
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 6: Well, these laws are all worded in a very vague way.

472
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 6: The net result of all of it has been teachers

473
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 6: are afraid to touch this stuff. There was a survey

474
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 6: by rand and Nationwide Survey Teachers that found two thirds

475
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 6: of teachers nationally, so tens of thousands of teachers said

476
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 6: they have been self censoring or holding back on discussing

477
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 6: these issues or avoiding discussing issues around racism, LGBTQ inclusion,

478
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 6: or bigotry. And what was really interesting about that was

479
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 6: that was happening not just in red states or school

480
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 6: districts where monster Liberty style packs had taken over. Teachers

481
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 6: everywhere were doing that, and in large part because they

482
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 6: were afraid. All it takes is one parent forward to it,

483
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 6: he's a teacher that this teacher is trying to sexually

484
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 6: grow my child, or this teacher is trying to teach

485
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 6: my white child to hate in South and hate America.

486
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 6: And so teachers got the message of the last few years.

487
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 6: I think as a result, in many places, kids are

488
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 6: getting kind of a distorted picture of what America, a

489
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 6: distorted picture of America's history, especially when it comes to race, racism,

490
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 6: and the idea that we're a pluralistic society where everyone's

491
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 6: faith and views are welcome.

492
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: Also, isn't there a problem where teachers are disappearing, like

493
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: they're having trouble finding teachers to hire.

494
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 5: I mean, doesn't this have a chilling effect.

495
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 6: Tcha is a tough profession as it is, It's a

496
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 6: lot of pressure, especially with the growth of the test

497
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 6: and culture of the last couple of decades, and so

498
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 6: this is just layered on top of that. And so

499
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 6: I documented in the book several cases where teachers who

500
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 6: are celebrating their communities like the loved by their students

501
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 6: and librarians are saying, I can't keep doing this. And

502
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 6: I give an example. As a journalist reporting on this's

503
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 6: I got a little taste of what teachers are getting

504
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 6: in this era when I reported on a story basically

505
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 6: just documenting the kind of wave of anti LGBTQ book

506
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 6: bands in the suburb outside of Houston called Katie, Texas.

507
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 6: I spoke with a queer teenager for that story, and

508
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 6: she shared with me how the school library was the

509
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 6: one place where she felt safe and secure to read

510
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 6: stories that reflected who she is because her parents weren't supportive.

511
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 6: After I wrote that story, a bunch of moms in Katie,

512
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 6: Texas got a hold of my phone number and blasted

513
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 6: me with text messages and emails telling me that they

514
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 6: were going to the police, that me having spoken to

515
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 6: the student was a sign of grooming, and that they

516
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 6: were going to file a police report or soliciting a minor.

517
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 6: And so Mollie. I know that you get nasty messages.

518
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 6: You know, if you work in this space, you're a journalist,

519
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 6: you get me emailed to get criticisms. I'm used to that,

520
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 6: got big skin. But this allegation from these parents. I'm

521
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 6: a dad of four and they're saying, oh, you're a

522
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 6: child sexual predator and we're going to tell the police.

523
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 6: It messed me up and knocks the wind out of me.

524
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 6: For a moment, was like, why am I doing this?

525
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 6: Do I want to be a journalist?

526
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 5: Well, that's the goal, right.

527
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 6: The next thought was what's a teacher or librarian going

528
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 6: to do when they get allegation? And the answer is

529
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 6: some of them are quitting. They're leading.

530
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that is really that's really what

531
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: they're banking on. Is there any pushback? I mean, are

532
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: these red state schools just descending into a kind of

533
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: Fox News friendly fakeness?

534
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 6: I mean, like I said that, there are groups now

535
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 6: on the left. It's basically this coalition of progressives and

536
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 6: moderate kind of Romney Republicans who are fighting back against

537
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 6: this at the local level and districts all over the place.

538
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 6: Lots of them are winning and beating moms for liberty.

539
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 6: But the bigger piece I think that I'll call out is,

540
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 6: you know, there's a certain extent some of these issues

541
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 6: that are being debated are around student civil rights in America.

542
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 6: Every student has a right to an equal shot at

543
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 6: an education without being discriminated against a bully based on

544
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 6: their race, or sex or now gender and sexual orientation

545
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 6: under new guidelines by the administration. So that's enforced by

546
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 6: the Federal Education Department's Office for Civil Rights. There's actually

547
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 6: an active eight cases in the district I write about

548
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 6: south Lake that could end up forcing them to implement

549
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 6: some diversity training and strengthening the student Code of Conduct,

550
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 6: you know, the same stuff that they rejected as CRT

551
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 6: a few years ago. But this is all on the

552
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 6: ballot in November. Donald Trump has said his plan is

553
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 6: to abolish the federal Education Department and send all of

554
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 6: that work back to the state. But the states handle

555
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 6: education policy, including the civil rights stuff and Project twenty

556
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 6: and twenty five. I know your listeners know all about

557
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 6: this kind of playbook for detailing what a second Trump

558
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 6: term would look like. And they also want to abolige

559
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 6: the Education Department and basically end the federal enforcement of

560
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 6: civil rights laws by the Education Department, and so the

561
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 6: net results will be, as we've seen in other areas,

562
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 6: kind of two sets of constitutional rights in America depending

563
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 6: on what state you live in, and that'll, you know,

564
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 6: just like with abortion, and that'll, in their vision, be

565
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 6: applied to education as well.

566
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 5: This is so bleak. Is there anything you can tell

567
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 5: me that is less bleak?

568
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 6: Well, like I mentioned, these things aren't broadly not actually

569
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 6: popular right, which is important, and the division here isn't

570
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 6: really a clean break left first right on these issues,

571
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 6: and so, like I mentioned, like there's this growing coalition

572
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 6: of progressive and moderate conservatives in these communities that are

573
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 6: fighting back against this, and especially the element that's really

574
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 6: uniting progressives and moderate conservatives is this next level where

575
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 6: the Christian right is really steeping on this as an

576
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 6: opportunity to not just remove DEI, but to impose conservative

577
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 6: Christian worldview. So, like, there's all these laws to put

578
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 6: up to ten commandments in public schools, to bring in

579
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 6: Christian chaplains, to start praying at events, and to get

580
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 6: public funding for private Christian schooling. And it does not

581
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 6: seem that most of these objectives are popular, probably with Americans,

582
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 6: and so part of the reason I write the book

583
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 6: that you know, I'm I'm not trying to tell people

584
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 6: how to vote or what they need to do, but

585
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 6: I think the more people become aware of what's happening,

586
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 6: who's behind it, and what their goals are, people will

587
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 6: make maybe better decisions.

588
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: You know, It's funny because it's like, it's so clear

589
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: to me that in these elections when people too now,

590
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: normal people lose, right the normal people to people who

591
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: don't want their students indoctrinated into Christianity, who just want

592
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: them to go to school, who don't want all this

593
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: political ideology, who want to study history like normal history

594
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: and not weird trumpy history that says slavery they didn't

595
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: really mean slavery, like who cares, you know, of course

596
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: they meant it, and that kind of stuff that when

597
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: people pay attention, they they vote against this.

598
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 5: But the problem is it's very hard to get people

599
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 5: to pay attention.

600
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 6: The other piece is not everyone's telling the full story

601
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 6: to what's happening here, and so if not every media

602
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 6: outlet is telling us. On Fox News, there's depiction of

603
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 6: America's education system as this this way foreign left radical

604
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 6: enterprise that is trying to get your kid to change

605
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 6: their gender as part of this lot to destroy America.

606
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 6: And so I've talked with people and there's more of

607
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 6: these stories coming out who heard that message, were terrified

608
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 6: by it and voted for some of these kind of

609
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 6: far right school board candidates. Now a year or two later,

610
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 6: they're looking taking a closer look and seeing, wait a second, wait,

611
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 6: what are they doing? And they're realizing it's first of all,

612
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 6: the story that they were fed was untrue. It was

613
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 6: just a strong man to get them routed up. And

614
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 6: then they're seeing the policies that they're putting forward, removing books,

615
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 6: bringing in chaplains, all these sorts of things, and they're saying, wait,

616
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 6: that's not what I wanted. I feel duped. And so

617
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 6: I think there are people, even not just moderate Republicans,

618
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 6: just you know, maybe even Trump voting Republicans who are

619
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 6: tapping on this. And I've seen that in communities. I've

620
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 6: seen I've seen school board members. There were one in

621
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 6: North Texas recently. There's an article on who ran on

622
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 6: this anti woke agenda. She's going to save the kids

623
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 6: and get on the school board. And then she got on.

624
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 6: She took a look at the policies and the curriculum,

625
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 6: and she thought, wait, this is just all they're doing

626
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 6: is teaching kids to be kind to each other. There's

627
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 6: no secret plot here. And so she's now come out

628
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 6: and changed her cortunity is going public with that story.

629
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 6: And so I do think it's just a challenge of

630
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 6: telling people the truth about what's happening.

631
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: That is an amazing thing, because you know, I was

632
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: on this show with Jordan Klipper and I asked him

633
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: if people ever have this come to Jesus moment where

634
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: they like listen to themselves, and he said they never

635
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: ever do so, and that got me pretty depressed, so

636
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: hearing that there are some people who are still intellectually

637
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: honest or at least with it enough to be able

638
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: to be like, this is not real. And again, like

639
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: American history, recent American history is lined with people who

640
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: have who have been in red states, had Red senators

641
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: and then been like this is too much like think

642
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: of Kansas.

643
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

644
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 6: In fact, one of the moms who was the most

645
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 6: vocal voices pushing to take over the school board in

646
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 6: South Flay. I mean this is someone who was like

647
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 6: she would make the news when she spoke itscore meeting

648
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 6: because she was so firery and over the top and

649
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 6: wanting criminal charges against board members. And I've been watching

650
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 6: her on social media and as she's watched the school

651
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 6: board kind of go into this, the Carrol School board

652
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 6: in South Flake is just you know, they're all seven

653
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 6: members are now from this faction that was anti CRT,

654
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 6: anti DEI, and she's seeing the kind of Christian nationalism

655
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 6: piece of it, and she didn't know that was going

656
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 6: to be part of it. And so this mom who

657
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 6: was the most extreme is trying to like lead a

658
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 6: recall effort forri Ki's board members that she she supported.

659
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 6: She supported it. She's not progressive, she's not liberal. She's

660
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 6: not even a modern conservative. She's very conservative. She's saying

661
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 6: that's enough.

662
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you, thank you, Mike.

663
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks for doing this. Appreciate you.

664
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: Melissa Walker is the head of Giving Circles at the

665
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: States Project.

666
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 5: Welcome to Fast Politics, Melissa, Oh, thanks so much for

667
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 5: having me excited.

668
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 7: To be here.

669
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the States Project. Tell us why you

670
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: decided to do this.

671
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 8: I have kind of a funny origin story here because

672
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 8: I was writing young adult and middle grade novels and

673
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 8: working in teen magazines in the fall of twenty sixteen,

674
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 8: but when Trump was elected, I really felt like I

675
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 8: had to pause and find a way to put.

676
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 5: Out the fire.

677
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 7: And I was lucky enough to attend a publishing holiday

678
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 7: party in December of twenty sixteen where I heard a

679
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 7: New York State Senator, Daniel Squadron speak, and what he

680
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 7: said really blew my mind and turned my world around,

681
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 7: because I started to understand that everything I was worried about,

682
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 7: and everything I cared about, was being decided in state

683
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 7: capitals and not in Washington, d C. From education funding

684
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 7: to environment policy, to healthcare, to civil rights to abortion,

685
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 7: to the core of our democracy, voting rights, and of

686
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 7: course jerrymandering, the drawing of the district lines that decide

687
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 7: who goes to Congress, all in the hands of state lawmakers.

688
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 7: And when I realized that, and I realized that I

689
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 7: wanted to focus on it, I tried to figure out

690
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 7: how I could have the biggest impact, and I really

691
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 7: started to organize my community in that direction. And six

692
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 7: months later, Daniel Squadron resigned from New York State Senate

693
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 7: to start the States Project, and I joined him there

694
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 7: because I believed in the mission so much to change

695
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 7: the balance of power in state chambers to elect majorities

696
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 7: that are focused on improving people's lives.

697
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 5: What does that look like.

698
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: I feel like there are so many people who are

699
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: like I want to do something, they really feel powerless.

700
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: So talk to us about what you do and how

701
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: it's been meaningful.

702
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely so. The sentence that really galvanized me that

703
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 7: night in that at that holiday party was this one

704
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 7: from Daniel Squadron. It is often cheaper to change the

705
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 7: balance of power in an entire state chamber than it

706
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 7: is to win a single competitive congressional seat. Right, Congressional

707
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 7: races cost millions and millions of dollars, and state legislative

708
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 7: races do not. So when I started to realize that

709
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 7: there were these fifty mini congresses in our country that

710
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 7: were deciding so much about how we live our lives

711
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 7: and about the state of our democracy, and that it

712
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 7: was like, actually cheaper to influence and affect these races

713
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 7: than it would be to affect federal races, I understood

714
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 7: that I had the power to gather rooms together, you know,

715
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 7: backyards with ten people with sushi and beer, or you know,

716
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 7: living rooms with eight people in pizza and wine and

717
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 7: talking about state legislatures. And once I started to learn

718
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 7: how the right wing had focused on shifting power and

719
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 7: state legislatures, I started to learn that if we could

720
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 7: do it that way too, it would be incredibly impactful

721
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 7: to flips of these states. So I started to form

722
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 7: what I called the Giving Circle, which was just a

723
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 7: bunch of people coming together and putting in whatever they

724
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 7: could to pool resources. And we really learned a lot.

725
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 7: So we learned things like from twenty ten to twenty sixteen,

726
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 7: Democrats lost nearly one thousand state legislative seats. As we

727
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 7: stared at the White House and felt good about having

728
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 7: elected President Obama, but in those states where their right

729
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 7: toook power in state houses and state senate, they made

730
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 7: people's lives bad. They defunded the education and put in

731
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 7: right to work laws and got it environmental protections. But

732
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 7: people didn't say that must be my state senator, my

733
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 7: state house rep. Because most people don't know who goes

734
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 7: to their state capital for them. And once we started

735
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 7: to see these power centers that had been operating in

736
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 7: darkness and how little we needed to get together to

737
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 7: help change them, we started to kind of walk through

738
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 7: the world with more power by pooling our resources together

739
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 7: with friends and neighbors and families. And that first year

740
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 7: in twenty seventeen, right when Daniel Squadron resigned from Albany

741
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 7: to start the State's Project, we went into Virginia with him.

742
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 7: It was twenty seventeen. Virginia has odd year elections for

743
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 7: their state legislature. We were trying to help slip the

744
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 7: House Delegates and there were ten candidates who we finished

745
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 7: the funding for. Nine of those folks won their seats,

746
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 7: and the balance of power in Richmond got so close,

747
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 7: just one seat away from flipping that The next year,

748
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 7: Virginia expanded Medicaid, and we felt connected to that policy

749
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 7: outcome and we wanted to see more change. So that's

750
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 7: when I really stopped writing and started a Giving Circles

751
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 7: program at the States Project to help other people organize

752
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 7: their friends and their families and their neighbors to do

753
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 7: this strategic political giving, because I think that sometimes we

754
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 7: get really focused on the races at the top of

755
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 7: the ticket, the things that are on the news, the

756
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 7: people who are on MSNBC at night and on the

757
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 7: front page of the newspapers, But the state legislators that

758
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 7: we are supporting in these tipping point seats in states

759
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 7: where the balance of power can be shifted are folks

760
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 7: that most people won't have heard of, They won't know

761
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 7: their names, they won't know anything about them. But these

762
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 7: are the people who are deciding whether a state abortion access,

763
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 7: who are deciding the voting rights in the state, who

764
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 7: are deciding on climate policy and healthcare and civil rights

765
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 7: and education funding. One big, shining example of this is

766
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty two, the State's Product was in Michigan

767
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 7: to help whip the State House and the States Senate.

768
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 7: We won both of those chambers by fewer than four

769
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 7: hundred votes to make one seat majorities in Michigan. Now,

770
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 7: last year in Congress, they passed about thirty bills right

771
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 7: in Washington d C. Michigan passed three hundred and twenty

772
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 7: one with those new majorities, and they were able to

773
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 7: codify the right to abortion in the state constitution and

774
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 7: end those right to work laws so the unions can

775
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 7: be strong again, and free breakfast and lunch for all

776
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 7: school children, and the strongest climate bill in the country,

777
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 7: stronger than New York's or California's. In Michigan. So these

778
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 7: are the types of foundational changes we can see when

779
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 7: we focus here, and groups of everyday people who are

780
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 7: coming together can really really move the needle.

781
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 1: So I wanted to have you on because I heard

782
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: you speak and I've known about your project. I think

783
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: we've actually had Daniel on this podcast. But what I

784
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: wanted you to talk about was so the other day

785
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: I was at the doctor's office and I ran into

786
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: a woman who recognized me, and she said, I feel

787
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: so powerless. I don't know what I can do. I

788
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: am so worried about democracy. Please tell me what I

789
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: can do. So tell her what she can do.

790
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

791
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean I certainly felt that way for a

792
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 7: little while until I found this. And what I have

793
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 7: seen happen from the inside is these power shifts make immense,

794
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 7: handible change, and gathering people together in community is part

795
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 7: of that change. So the Giving circles model for political

796
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 7: giving is a really strong one because not only does

797
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 7: it kind of help raise electoral dollars for the state's

798
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 7: project to kind of focus and target this strategic way

799
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 7: to shift power, but also because it brings communities of

800
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 7: people together in connection, people with shared values coming together

801
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 7: and gaping in backyards like we were in the other night,

802
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 7: or living rooms or zoom rooms, and feeling the energy

803
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 7: of a community is an incredibly powerful way to walk

804
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 7: through the world. I didn't know that I could organize

805
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 7: that first year, our giving circle organized one hundred thousand dollars.

806
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 7: I had no idea that I could do that. But

807
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 7: little by little, from donations from twenty five dollars to

808
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 7: one thousand dollars at a time, we brought in enough

809
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 7: people to make that math problem more And now I

810
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 7: know that that is something that I can do, and

811
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 7: it makes me walk through the world with more power,

812
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 7: not only for this political venture, but also for my neighborhood,

813
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 7: for my local school, for anything that I care about.

814
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 7: Developing those skills of bringing attention to resources to something

815
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 7: that I care about has been a piece of me

816
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 7: figuring out that I am powerful and I do not

817
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 7: have to be a witness to what is happening in

818
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 7: our country. I can be a part of fighting for

819
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 7: our democracy. And the thing about plugging in at this

820
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 7: level is I can really see the impact of your work.

821
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 7: I just mentioned Michigan in those slim margins, but they

822
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 7: weren't the slimmest of twenty twenty two. We were also

823
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 7: in Minnesota to try to flip the state Senate and

824
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 7: we did that by one hundred and ninety one votes.

825
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 7: So the trifecta meaning the governor's mansion and both chambers

826
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 7: being in Democratic hands in Minnesota happened because of one

827
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 7: seat in the state Senate one hundred and ninety one

828
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 7: votes in Pennsylvania in an even slimmer margin, which in

829
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two, the state's project was there to target

830
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 7: twelve seats. We got all twelve, but the final one

831
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 7: was won by sixty three votes. So what I said

832
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 7: to every giving circle leader that had chosen Pennsylvania that

833
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 7: year was that was you, because if every backyard end,

834
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 7: zoom room and gathering hadn't happened, I don't know if

835
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 7: we would have been able to win that majority. And

836
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 7: shifting power in Harrisburg means we've elected the first black

837
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 7: woman Speaker of the House in Pennsylvania and Billy has

838
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 7: the gabble on policy and it has been incredible to

839
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 7: watch that happen. And it is because of people organizing

840
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 7: their communities, and we all have that power when we

841
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 7: bring our people.

842
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: Together, tell me what you guys are looking at in

843
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: the fall.

844
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 7: Every year we do a ninety nine state chamber analysis,

845
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 7: and it's ninety nine because Nebraska is unfameral, so we

846
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 7: take a look at where power shifts are possible.

847
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 5: Wait, say more on Nebraska.

848
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 7: So Nebraska doesn't have a state House and a state Senate,

849
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 7: they just have one body. So that's why it becomes

850
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 7: ninety nine chambers. Why it's just the way they like

851
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 7: to do it, and it's a great piece of nerdy

852
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 7: trivia for.

853
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 6: A dinner party.

854
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 7: But we are focused on the nine states where we

855
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 7: think we see a path to the power shift.

856
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 6: That we want.

857
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 7: We're always looking for a power threshold. So our state

858
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 7: focuses in twenty twenty four include, of course defending those

859
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 7: new majorities in Michigan, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania, also trying to

860
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 7: flip state chambers in Arizona, where we're just two seats

861
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 7: away in the state House and the state Senate from

862
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 7: a flip, and also in New Hampshire, where we will

863
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 7: be working in both the House and the Senate, the

864
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 7: House to work on a flip and the Senate to

865
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 7: work on a tie. We see a path to a

866
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 7: tie there and we're also going to be in Nevada

867
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 7: to try to build a supermajority against a right wing

868
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 7: governor who vetos everything. So if we can build a

869
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 7: super majority, we can override some of those vetos and

870
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 7: get some good policies passed. And we're also in Kansas

871
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 7: and North Carolina, both places to break a right wing supermajority.

872
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 7: Kansas has the Democratic governor, Laura Kelly, whose veto has

873
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 7: been overridden on a bunch of things, including limits on abortion,

874
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 7: which the voters, as we saw, did not agree with,

875
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 7: but the legislature passed them anyway. In North Carolina, where

876
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 7: we just need to break that supermajority because there's an

877
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 7: important governor's race, but even if Josh Stein, the Democrat,

878
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 7: wins the governor's mansion, he will not have power unless

879
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 7: we break the super majority. So we're working in the

880
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 7: state House there and the final state for the first time,

881
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 7: we're going to be in Wisconsin because they have new

882
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 7: fairer map thanks to Supreme Court race that was one

883
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 7: last year with the help of a lot of activism.

884
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 7: And in Wisconsin, those FARA maps mean that we see

885
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 7: a path to potentially flipping the Assembly and certainly gaining

886
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 7: ground there. So those are our targets for twenty twenty four.

887
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: The thing I'm struck by when we talk about these

888
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: maps is that in Minnesota, the governor there has been

889
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: able to do incredible things with free breakfast, free lunch,

890
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: is you know, feeding hungry children, which for me, I

891
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: feel like in a country this rich, we shouldn't have

892
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: any hungry children. Now this, by the way, is it controversial,

893
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: very controversial. You know, you could get there are Republicans

894
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: who say, like, what if we feed a middle class child,

895
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: like that's a tragedy. But Wisconsin has not been able

896
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: to do those same things because of their state legislature.

897
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 7: Right, that's correct, that's right, And Minnesota wasn't able to

898
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 7: do that until we got the majority by one hundred

899
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 7: and ninety one vote margin.

900
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: Tell the person who came and stopped me at the

901
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: doctor's office what you should do now.

902
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 7: So I think there's a couple of options. If that

903
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 7: person is someone who does like to gather people and

904
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 7: organize a little bit, So maybe someone who has a

905
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 7: book club or who always organizes the potlic or who

906
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 7: hosts dinner parties, that is a giving circle leader, and

907
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 7: there are a bunch of them in every community, and.

908
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: One of them is quite a famous actress. I mean,

909
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: there are people here who are doing this because they

910
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: are worried, right.

911
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 7: Absolutely, absolutely, And you know there's going to be so

912
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 7: much wild emotional political giving that happens this year when

913
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 7: people get panicked, when people get scared, and it's not

914
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 7: going to be strategic. And I think anyone who's putting

915
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 7: any dollars into political stuff this year needs to be

916
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 7: strategic about where their dollars will have an impact. And

917
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 7: that's really what giving circles are for. I tell every

918
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 7: giving circle leader that starts one that they are turning

919
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 7: on the porch light for strategic political gear, and that

920
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 7: when they approach friends and family with the story of

921
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 7: this effort, they are really giving people an opportunity to

922
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 7: have an impact that they didn't know was possible. You know,

923
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 7: when I started working at the State's Project, a friend

924
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 7: of mine said, oh, how's the fundraising gig going? And

925
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 7: I was like, I'm not fundraising, I'm flipping state legislatures.

926
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 7: And she said through fundraising, right, And I was like,

927
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 7: oh my gosh, I guess I'm fundraising. But really, what

928
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 7: I think I'm doing is walking into a room and

929
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 7: saying to people, you can have a political impact that

930
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 7: you didn't know was possible. At the foundations of our country.

931
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 7: It's where the right wing's been building power for decades.

932
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 7: And I'll take my word for it. Ask the Kochs

933
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 7: and the Melons and Escapes and the devoces like this

934
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 7: is where the rubber meets the road on policy and

935
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 7: on congressional elections and on the bills that are rising

936
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 7: up to the Supreme Court. Right, it was a Mississippi

937
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 7: law that took down Row. And if that one hadn't

938
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 7: done it, there were sixteen other states that had keued

939
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 7: up abortion vans. Yeah, and they queued up those bands

940
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 7: specifically to rest of the Supreme Court to challenge Row.

941
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 7: And that was state legislatures that did that. And there

942
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 7: is also a lever over the presidential here because not

943
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 7: only does state legislators decide who can vote and when

944
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 7: and how in their states, but also because the pack

945
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 7: to steal the presidency in twenty twenty ran directly through

946
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 7: state legislatures. It wasn't senators and congress people who Trump

947
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 7: called into the Oval office in December of twenty twenty,

948
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 7: it was state lawmakers from Michigan, from Minnesota, from Pennsylvania

949
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 7: and Arizona. He was asking them to change their electors

950
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 7: and hand him their elect for or college votes, because

951
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 7: state governments handle their elections. So it's this ultimate power

952
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 7: center that can really be changed with a fraction of

953
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 7: the investment that you would spend on a federal race.

954
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 7: But it's hard for people to figure out, Okay, which

955
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 7: are the potential tipping point seats in which states is

956
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 7: a power shift possible? So that's what the State's Project

957
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 7: has done with a research team and a ton of data.

958
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 7: But what giving circles do is they sign up at

959
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 7: Statesproject dot org. They start their own pay which our

960
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 7: team sets up, and then they've got a place to

961
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 7: bring their friends and family and say, we are doing

962
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 7: a strategic political movement here where we are helping the

963
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 7: State's Project target these tipping point seats to shift power.

964
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 7: It's all been figured out. We choose our target state together,

965
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 7: and then we march in there to these strategically chosen

966
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 7: races where we will not have heard of these candidates,

967
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 7: but they are the folks who are deciding these issues.

968
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 7: I would say to her, think about starting a giving circle,

969
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 7: Think about joining a giving circle. Checkout statesproject dot org

970
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 7: and try to figure out if there's a way to

971
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 7: plug in, because there really is, especially if you're someone

972
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 7: who wants to do this with friends and family. And

973
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 7: I promise folks that when you start inviting people in,

974
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 7: they will thank you. Because everyone is looking for a

975
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 7: place to have political impact right now and it's not

976
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 7: easy to find.

977
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. You know, this is cheaper

978
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 1: than a congressional race. It's cheaper than a mayoral race.

979
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 1: It's cheaper than I mean, this is like the These

980
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: are the races that no one is talking about. I

981
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: know because on this podcast Jesse and I had We

982
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: didn't have every but we had many, many, many members

983
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: of the Virginia House of Delegates and Virginia State Senators

984
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: on this podcast because it is so incredibly important.

985
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 5: And these are such small marginal elections.

986
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 7: That's exactly right, and I'm so glad you put a

987
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 7: spotlight on that. I mean, Virginia was a state we

988
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 7: were in twenty twenty three with the giving circles and

989
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 7: able to help hold the state Senate and flip the

990
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 7: House of Delegates to put a wall in front of

991
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 7: Governor Youngkin's right wing agenda, and it's been incredibly important.

992
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 7: I mean, Virginia is the last southern state that doesn't

993
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 7: have restrictions further restrictions on abortion post obs and we

994
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 7: see that, you know, after this Florida ban, Virginia is

995
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 7: the spot people are coming to like, this is really important,

996
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 7: and not just for the state itself, but for our country.

997
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 7: You know, this is our country. There aren't country borders

998
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 7: between our states. We are in the United States, and

999
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 7: we have to care about what happens in each of

1000
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 7: these places. So I absolutely think it is a place.

1001
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 7: We stu a sign on our office store that said,

1002
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 7: not where the glamor is, just where the power is.

1003
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 7: And I really believe.

1004
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: That such a great line, and I agree, and I

1005
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: was convinced that Youngkin, with his fake moderate stuff, would

1006
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: be able to flip the state houses and ban abortion,

1007
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: and in fact he did not, and probably in.

1008
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 5: Some part due to you guys.

1009
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 7: We were the biggest national investor in Virginia with the

1010
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 7: help of giving circles. Really who put more resources on

1011
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 7: the ground in Virginia for this than the DNZ did.

1012
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 7: I mean, it was an incredible thing. To watch and

1013
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 7: it's you know, it's not three dimensional chess, right, it's

1014
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 7: connected four. These candidates need time to go meet their

1015
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 7: voters and knock on doors. They need digital ads that

1016
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 7: have been tested locally, they need TV ads, they need

1017
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 7: some mailers. Now this is not some complicated thing, but

1018
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 7: when we ignore state legislative races, we just leave the field.

1019
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 7: And that's really where the right wing's been building and

1020
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 7: we've been letting it go. So we're fighting back.

1021
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: As Amanda Littman says, you got to run for every seat.

1022
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so so much, Melissa Walker. It's called the

1023
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: State Project. Just tell us one more time, absolutely, the

1024
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: State's Project at statesproject dot org.

1025
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 7: Check us out.

1026
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: No, no moment.

1027
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 5: Rick Wilson, do you have a moment of fuckery?

1028
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 4: I always have a moment of fuckery, Polly, And look,

1029
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 4: I know that this has been the story of stories,

1030
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 4: but can we just for a moment stop pretending that

1031
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas are not completely political apparatics

1032
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 4: and not actual Supreme Court justices.

1033
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: Can we just for a moment the whole story with

1034
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 3: his multiple flags.

1035
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 4: It just strikes me that John Roberts, who people keep

1036
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 4: hoping and praying will stand up and take control of

1037
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 4: things and tell them that they have to stop with

1038
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 4: the appearance of partisan intentionality. I had hoped myself that

1039
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: John Roberts would stand up, But until he does, we're

1040
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 4: going to have a Supreme Court that Americans are increasingly

1041
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 4: divided about, increasingly frightened of, and increasingly in a situation

1042
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 4: where they have no credibility with the vast majority of

1043
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 4: the American people.

1044
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: So my moment of fuckery is that I think we

1045
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: should all just take a step back from this poll

1046
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: of palooza and just focus on what's happening on the

1047
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: ground in Biden world. And the reason why this is

1048
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: my moment of fuckery and it's not my moment of

1049
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: fackery every day, is because read this piece by Nate

1050
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: Cohen of the New York Times, who talked about how

1051
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: I no, No, this is smart, talked about how when

1052
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: they're doing these polls, they're trying to account for these

1053
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: hidden Trump voters who may or.

1054
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 5: May not vote.

1055
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 1: So maybe these people will vote, and maybe it will

1056
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: rain and they won't.

1057
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 5: So every single thing that is going to happen between

1058
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 5: now and November is what matters, not what happens in

1059
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 5: a poll of possible voters who might come out but

1060
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 5: have never voted.

1061
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: You know, those kind of quantifications and that kind of pulling.

1062
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 5: That is my moment of fuck break.

1063
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 4: May I offer a sub moment of fuckery on that

1064
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 4: there is a species of polster right now who believe

1065
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 4: so much in the polling averages. They truly believe that

1066
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 4: there could never be anything wrong with the polling averages,

1067
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 4: and that their weights that they've applied to the different

1068
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 4: polls in terms of their quality are universally a correct

1069
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 4: and be accepted. This is a flawed system that the Republicans,

1070
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 4: and believe me, I'm a former Republican, guys, I can

1071
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 4: tell you if we want to figure out how to

1072
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 4: game a system, we'll game the damn system.

1073
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, Rick, that was so good. You're so smart anytime.

1074
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1075
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1076
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1077
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1078
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.