1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi, everybody, Katie lows here, 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Katie's Crib, a judgment free zone for 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: mama's to really talk about all the highs and the 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: lows and the in betweens of being a parent. This episode, 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: you guys, is selfishly all for me, because this episode 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: is all about baby number two, which at the time 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: of this recording, I'm thirty five weeks pregnant. I haven't 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: thought about baby number two at all because I've been 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: so busy running around after baby number one. The only 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: thing I've done is look at this incredible book very slowly, 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: because I can get through a page or two at 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: night before passing out, and I was like, I gotta 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: get this brilliant author on Katie's Crib. Her name is 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Akwell Smith. She has written eleven, count them, eleven 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: parenting books, including the one I'm talking about, which is 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: called The Second Baby Book, How to Cope with Pregnancy 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: Number two and create a happy home for your firstborn 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: and new arrival. Sarah is coming to us from England. 20 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: I am in England. Yeah really, close to cambrid Between 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Cambridge and London, it's cold. Oh I'm so jealous. I'm 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: pregnant and just coming out of our fourth or fifth 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: Los Angeles heat wave of over a hundred degrees which 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: has been so it's just it's just cold and rainy. 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: That's what it does in England. I'm so happy to 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: have you on the show. First, I want to talk 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: about the first thing that happened to me when I 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: was trying to plan baby number two, which is this 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: obsession I had with this age gap situation. It's so stupid, 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: but when you're a type a planner, Look like tons 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: of women just get pregnant with baby number two, three, four, five, 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: and they their whims of coal about it and they're 33 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: not planners. And if it happens, it happens great. That 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: ain't me, Okay. So I went down so many Google 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: spirals of deciding how to space them out, around work 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: around age, around when one goes to school, when's ones 37 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: added diapers, blah blah blah BiH blah. There's no one 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: size fits all. But based on your research, can you 39 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: share what are the differences between having kids let's say 40 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: closer in age versus further apart. I know everybody wants 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: a specific answer that says this is the right age gap, 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: go with that, but actually there was the hundreds, if 43 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: not thousands of research papers out there, and they will 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: all come to a different conclusion. It doesn't give you 45 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: the exact answer. Um, there's three people to consider, obviously, 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: isn't there. There's the mom, there's the baby, and there's 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: the firstborn. So what we know from the research is 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: that a very small age gap scientists would consider that 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: sort of under about a year between pregnancies is physically 50 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: not ideal for the mom because it takes time for 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: your body to recover obviously after being pregnant and given 52 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: birth first time. Um, it's also not ideal for the 53 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: bay A B to have a small age gap. We know, 54 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: for instance, that the risk of SIDS I'm not quite 55 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: sure if you call that, we call it cop death 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: or crib death, that's slightly higher if there's a smaller 57 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: age gap. But then on the flip side, there is 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: research that shows actually less than a year gap is 59 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: probably better for the firstborn, So either less than a 60 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: year or more than five years. So if for the 61 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: firstborn a really small age gap or a really big 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: age gap, they tend to adjust a bit better. Um. 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: But then there's also another study, really big study that 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: said two years is the best age gap for the firstborn. 65 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: All of these studies say conflicting things. Very often, we 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: don't get to choose, you know, so people get accidentally pregnant, 67 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: or you might have planned an age gap and you 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: might take a long time to get pregnant. Maybe you 69 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: have secondary and fertility when you didn't have it first 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: time around. And I I get you. I'm a planner, 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm exactly the same as you. But I think maybe 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: this is one thing we shouldn't try to plan so much, 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: certainly not looking at the science. I think maybe consider 74 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: your situation, your work and your home and your finances, 75 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: things like that. But I think, really, whatever the age gap, 76 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: there are ways to make the best of it, and 77 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: nothing is really ideal. That's so great to hear. And 78 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: I also ran around to like everybody I knew as 79 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: adults who have great relationships with their siblings, and would 80 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: quiz them like, oh, you're really close with your brother 81 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: or your sister, what's your age gap? And some people 82 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: would say two years, some would say three, some would 83 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: say five, some would say ten, like it was completely 84 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: all over the map, and then a lot of people said, oh, 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: there were years we hated each other and now we're 86 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: in love and best friends. An age gap is really 87 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: not the only thing that's going to make them best 88 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: friends or otherwise all of my age gaps are wrong. 89 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: According to the science minor, I have four kids born 90 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: within four years of each other, which scientifically is like 91 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: the worst thing to do, but it worked for us, 92 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: and that silence is jar heading the ground. I know 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: that you had four kids, but I don't think I 94 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: realized they were within four years of each other. It 95 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: seemed a good idea at the time. Wow. I only 96 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: babysat for one family that had three kids under the 97 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: age of five, and I quit after thirty days because 98 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: I was like, this is its own I'm not going 99 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: to survive this this other situation. Does fertility change the 100 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: second time around? I mean, on a basic level, we're 101 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: older obviously second time around, so that can impact as well. 102 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Um there could be sort of effects from the birth 103 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: that could impact fertility, and sometimes it's just unexplained. If 104 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: you take the birth control pill that could also affect 105 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: your fertilities. So again, so many variables. I spoke to 106 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: so many people who really struggled with their first baby 107 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: to conceive, like they had IBF who accidentally fell pregnant 108 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: the second time around. It all suspect to a lot 109 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: of people who got pregnant instantly first time, but tried 110 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: for three, four or five years for their second. Mmm. Interesting. 111 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of those stories of mom's breastfeeding 112 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: the first baby and having that situation where they haven't 113 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: had a menstrual cycle yet. Like it took me eight 114 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: months before I had a menstrual cycle when I was 115 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: breastfeeding my first and so a lot of people just assume, oh, 116 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: I can't get pregnant, but that's not true. Yeah, you 117 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: can get pregnant before your first period. Obviously you opulate 118 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: when you probably opulate before your parod comes back. So yeah, absolutely, 119 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: you can get pregnant without menstruating, which is solved. What 120 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: can moms anticipate for their second pregnancy, Like, I feel 121 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: like the first pregnancy is so miraculous and even if 122 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: you're sick, you're I think you're so amazed that your 123 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: body is doing these things and obviously you're not running 124 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: around after a toddler, and I honestly feel like this 125 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: is the longest, most in depth conversation I will have 126 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: about the fact that I'm even pregnant. In the entire 127 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: eight and a half months I've been pregnant, that's how 128 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: like not a thing. It is, Like I keep saying 129 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: to my husband, like should we um talk about the name, 130 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: or like we just don't have time for this, do we. 131 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: It's just so not precious this time around, Like if 132 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't so uncomfortable, I would forget. And there's good 133 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: things and bad things about what you've just said. I 134 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,559 Speaker 1: think we tend to be less anxious because we don't 135 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: have as much time to sort of focus on everything 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: and read all the books and go to all the 137 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: classes and do all the worrying. Time goes really quickly 138 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: as well compared to the firstborn. But on the downside 139 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: of that, I think that's when you start to feel 140 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: the first thoughts of guilt coming in, because with your firstborn, 141 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: if somebody said to you how many weeks and days, 142 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: you'd know exactly and you could say, well, they're the 143 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: size of this piece of fruit or this vegetable. And 144 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: now you're just like I haven't got a clue how 145 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: big is it? Who knows, So it's you're not giving 146 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: them the same sort of thinking and the headspace that 147 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 1: you did first time around. I kept a little memory book, 148 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: and I wrote messages to my baby and stuck pictures 149 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: of my ultrasounds in, and I was very much, kind 150 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: of emotionally invested in the baby before it arrived. But 151 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: second time around, I didn't do any of that, you know, 152 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: talking about a name, things that I knew well before 153 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: in the firstborn, but second time we didn't really focus 154 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: on it that much. That can really start to bring 155 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: feelings of guilty in that, am I already doing things differently? 156 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: Should I be focusing more on this baby? But then 157 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: the minute you start focusing on the baby, then you 158 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: worry that you're not focusing on your firstborn. So you 159 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: feel kind of really torn and also exhausted because you 160 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: can't sleep because you're running around after a toddler or 161 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: an older kid. And yeah, it's it's it's really different 162 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: and hard work and you're beeing all night long. It's ridiculous. 163 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: It's so so different. When do you recommend telling the 164 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: firstborn about baby number two? I think it depends on 165 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: how all your firstborn is. What we need to understand 166 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: is kids under about seven issues don't really have a 167 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: concept of what we call hypothetical thinking, so they don't 168 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: really think about the future in the same way that 169 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: we do. And they also struggle with something called abstract thinking. 170 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: They can't really imagine things without actually seeing them or 171 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: touching them. It's why if you see like a four 172 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: year old and you asked them to do some sums, 173 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: they'll use their fingers to count because they can't do 174 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: it in their head like we can. Although some adults 175 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: still account, but so they they really struggle to understand 176 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: things that actually aren't there, that aren't tangible. So if 177 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about a new baby brother or sister, they 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: will kind of seem like they get it, but actually 179 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: they really don't. What they don't understand is how their 180 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: lives will change, how things will impact exactly what will happen. 181 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: They also don't get time, so you could say to 182 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: them four months, five months, three months in December and March, 183 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: and they just don't get it. So what I actually 184 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: recommend is that you wait until between five and seven 185 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: months to tell them, so there's not so long to 186 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: wear eat um and you know, you've got a bump 187 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: so that it's all a little bit more real to them, 188 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: and maybe you've got some baby stuff going on. So 189 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: almost as late as possible, that's what I did, and 190 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: I got so much shipped for it. It was so bizarre, 191 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: Like I waited till seven months because I just instinctually 192 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: knew that was what was best for my kids. He 193 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: doesn't need to talk about this. For ten months, I 194 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: was like, he's not gonna get it. He's He's like, 195 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: he's too he's not gonna understand this. So I've just started, 196 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, a couple little board books that people have 197 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: recommended about being an older brother and stuff like that, 198 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: and he hates them. He doesn't want to read that book. 199 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: He wants to read Pepper, Pig Paw, patrol truck books. 200 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: If they're older, if you've got a six or a 201 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: seven or eight, you are absolutely tell them it's like 202 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: really early. But the practical preparation, I think, you know, 203 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: pretty training them and moving bedrooms or something, that's the 204 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: important stuff to do in terms of preparing them. But 205 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe, like people would say, you haven't told 206 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: him yet. Oh we brought our baby to you know, 207 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: we showed them the first ultrasound and stuff, and I 208 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, I've struggled with miscarriage and 209 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and I was like, I don't want 210 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: him to know until there's something to know, you know 211 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: what I mean, whatever you do as a parent, somebody 212 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: will disagree with you. It will be wrong, you'll get criticism. 213 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: You have to I would just ignore that. You know. 214 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: My one piece of west to all parents, just ignore 215 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: what everybody else says, right right, we you just touched 216 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: on this, which is what I've been getting through, is 217 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: like I had all these big transitions I wanted to 218 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: sort of hit with him before the baby became, potty training, 219 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: moving beds, moving rooms, et cetera. And I I really 220 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: wanted to take the time to space them all out 221 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: and make sure they were all sort of wrapped up 222 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: at least three months before the baby came. Is that 223 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,479 Speaker 1: the recommendation, like if you're trying to do any big transitions, 224 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: to really not do them before the baby comes. Like 225 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: the two reasons so one is that hopefully that transition 226 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: would have happened and be a thing of the past 227 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: when the baby comes. You know, you don't ideally when 228 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: to be potty training a couple of weeks before and 229 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: then still going through it when you've got a newborn, 230 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: So get them practiced and done and out of the way. 231 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: But also if you don't associate the change with a 232 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: new baby, then they will normally take to it much better. 233 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: And also it can reduce any sort of sibling rivalry 234 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: with the baby. So say, if they're in your bedroom 235 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: and you want to move them out, if you move 236 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: them out shortly before the baby arrives and they associate 237 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: that baby with why they've been thrown out of your bedroom, 238 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: then that can sort of cause more difficult behavior because 239 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: they think, oh, you know, mom or Dad's moved me 240 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: out because the baby is coming, and they want the 241 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: baby now and not me. How do you suggest preparing 242 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: our toddlers for mommy being away when we deliver the 243 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: baby if you're not doing a home birth. Yeah, so 244 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: I would always say have two or three different childcare plans. 245 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: The more plans are better, um and prepared to being 246 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: in my language, Sarah, but you know, kind of prepared 247 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: for whatever's going to happen. So if they're going to 248 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: grandparents or you've got a friend coming or saying you know, 249 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, always do a practice run. Don't leave 250 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: it until the actual day for it to happen. In 251 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: the book, I talk about writing two plans, so like 252 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: a birth plan or birth preferences, and then I talk 253 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: about writing a while I'm giving birth plan, so a 254 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: childcare plan. So when you're in labor, you might give 255 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, the doctors or the midwives or nurses, whatever 256 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: you call them, your plan that says this is what 257 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: I'd like to happen when I'm giving birth. And then 258 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: on the same way, I'd write a plan so that 259 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: whoever is looking after your firstborn you give them the 260 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: plan and say, this is what I'd like to happen 261 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: with my child whilst I'm giving birth. So I'd write 262 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: things on there. You know, this is what they like 263 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: to eat, this is what they like to drink, They 264 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: need this special toy to go to sleep, they like 265 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: to read this book at bedtime. You know, think of 266 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: all of the actualities and write them down on paper 267 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: and pack it up in the bag that's going to 268 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: be with your child. But do a practice run beforehand 269 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: and try and spend some time with that person before 270 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: you go into labor, so that the child was really 271 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: comfortable with them. Again, you don't want it all to 272 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: film new on the day itself. The more it's kind 273 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: of practiced and run through and you've got everything written down, 274 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: I think the better for them. Yeah. I agree. In 275 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: movies and things like this, growing up, we always see 276 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: the first child being introduced to siblings in the hospital 277 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: and um, I've just had a friend give birth who 278 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: was like, you don't have to do it like that, 279 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: you can do it at home. And I was like, 280 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: oh you can. Oh, that seems way better than my 281 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: son coming to like a place that he's never been before, 282 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: on top of making an introduction happen. It had never 283 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: even occurred to me that that was an option. Do 284 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: you suggest like where and when the introduction takes place? 285 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: I think again, if they're slightly older and they understand 286 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: that you're not in hospital because you're sick or you're ill, 287 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: or they're not going to walk past anything with sort 288 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: of beaping machines or something that scares them. Um, where 289 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: I gave birth to my first where we were staying 290 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: in the ward where we went to after giving birth, 291 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: you had to walk past the labor section. So my 292 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: kid had to walk past women screaming paper to reach me, 293 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: which wasn't Yeah, you know, it was okay. But if 294 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: i'd known that beforehand, I went with dumpings differently. But yeah, 295 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: So I've always talked about as well, if if they 296 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: do meet you in hospital, make sure any kind of 297 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: drips or blood or anything is covered up, because that 298 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: could be quite scary to them. But I think if 299 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: you're waiting to get home, I think it's nicer for 300 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: you with the baby, you get some time alone with 301 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: the baby because you you won't get back for a 302 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: long time when you get home right right right away, 303 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: and everybody neither meeting the baby. So your eldest child 304 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: meeting the baby in somewhere they feel safe and secure 305 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: and known. I think that can really help them as well, 306 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: because you've not got the strange environment thrown in. And 307 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: now I've also heard and you talk about this in 308 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: your book about gift giving and and how the introduction 309 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: is made, and oh my god, if it's going to 310 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: be at your house, then I better walk in first 311 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: and play with Albie for five minutes, and my husband 312 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: or your partner comes in with the baby and it's 313 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: not yours. And then you give a gift from the baby, 314 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: which seems insane to me because the baby can't shop. So, like, 315 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: what are your opinions thoughts on all of this? Do 316 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: you know? Often people will make a plan and they'll 317 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: do none of it and it all goes really great. 318 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: But I think the only things I would say is 319 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: just make sure that you've had a bit of a 320 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: rest and sleep so that you've got the energy for 321 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: your firstborn. And ideally great suggestions. You know, don't don't 322 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: be rushing to see them without having slept or something. 323 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: But I'd also suggest putting the baby down somewhere, so 324 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: down in like a crib or somewhere so that you've 325 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: got your arms free for your firstborn, because if they 326 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: haven't seen you for twelve hours, twenty four hours, forty 327 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: eight however many hours, they're likely to want to hug. 328 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: And if you've got the baby there, you know, it's 329 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: it's it's like the babies in the way between them 330 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: and you. So I would just, you know, put the 331 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: baby down somewhere or have somebody else holding them so 332 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: that you can give the firstborn a hug. Yeah, I 333 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: think that's great. Great suggestions, but present gift. Yeah, so giftwise, 334 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: I would absolutely give them one, but i'd make it 335 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: from you, not from the baby. I mean, I don't 336 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: think it matters hugely, but it just makes a lot 337 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: more sense if it's from you. When you have visitors, 338 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: they're going to be bringing gifts for the newborn, they 339 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: just feel so sorry for the firstborn when all these 340 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: people are coming for gifts and holding and making fuss 341 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: of the new baby and they're kind of ignored and 342 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: they don't get gifts. So for me giving them a 343 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: gift and saying, you know, this is because we know 344 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: you're going to be a wonderful big brother, and mommy 345 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: and daddy have brought this for you. Oh I love that. 346 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: So what did you do when you've had four and 347 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: people were buying gifts for the newborn? Were the first three? Like? 348 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: What the hell? Maybe three and four? Nobody's interest it 349 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: anymore and everyone's like, Nope, no gifts for you. Um 350 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: oh that's really funny. Um. There's all this controversy with 351 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: my hippie friends out here in l A about calling 352 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: someone a big sister or big brother versus older. Is 353 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: that something like New l A like, I get what 354 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: they're saying. I don't have an issue of that. But 355 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: the only thing I would be worried about is if 356 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: you constantly say, you know, you're a big boy. Now, 357 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: you don't need a pacifier, you don't need a diaper 358 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: because you're a big boy. Now, Um, what could happen 359 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: is they start resenting being big because being little gets 360 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: a pacified, being little gets a diaper, being little gets 361 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: sorts of hugs, being little gets to sleep with mom 362 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: and dad, and being big could end up this thing 363 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: that actually, I don't like being big and everybody keeps 364 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: calling me big, and I want to be little again. 365 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: And you'll often actually see a lot of new big 366 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: siblings they regress and start speaking like a baby, like 367 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: their speech will completely change, or they want to stop 368 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: breastfeeding again, or they'll want to pacifier again. They'll actually 369 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: try and become a baby. And I do think a 370 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: lot of that is because being big isn't all that's 371 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: sort of made out to be. Yeah, I've already sensed 372 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: that because like when we we moved my son into 373 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: a different room because he had this little nursery that's 374 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: attached to my bedroom where um, my second will go 375 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: and then we like party trained and we did all 376 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: this big kids stuff and I notice he'll say, but mommy, 377 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: i'm your baby, and I say, oh my gosh, you're 378 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: always my baby, you know what I mean? Like I 379 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: And if he says and I want to cuddle, I'm 380 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: like absolutely. But I have noticed him correcting me if 381 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: there are too many big words being put around. He'll 382 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: be like, I'm your baby, and I'm like, you're my baby, 383 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, like kind of fun of that, lady. I 384 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: don't think it's a huge problem. It's just you know 385 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: how it's is. If you're saying you grow up being 386 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: big boy, that's problematic. Yeah, no way, Um wait, hold 387 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: on one second, I have to peece so badly well 388 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: compute sprinting. Can you give me two seconds? Hold done? 389 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: One second? Once I get one thing back? So on 390 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: jealousy and feeling left out. I've also heard this thing 391 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: about like my friend said, oh my gosh, just don't 392 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: let your firstborn see you breastfeeding your baby first thing 393 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: in the morning, like you've had some sleepover that they 394 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: weren't invited to, and like she's like, I throw my 395 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: baby like a freaking hot potato into the bassinet, you know, 396 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: so that when the when the firstborn comes in, is 397 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: there anything to that. I guess, yeah, I understand, But 398 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 1: you've got to live your life as well. You are 399 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: going to do things that are going to upset your firstborn. 400 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: You're not going to avoid it. And I think perhaps 401 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: being a bit more realistic and just thinking there is 402 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: going they come to time when they're really jealous or 403 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: they're really upset, and we'll deal with it when it happens. 404 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: But I think talking about jealousy, I prefer to talk 405 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: about it as grief. So I talk about this in 406 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: the book that when we talk about our first one's 407 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: being jealous when a new baby or eyes, I think 408 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: it it makes us thinking quite a negative mindset about them. 409 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: It makes us think they're being really naughty, they're deliberately 410 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,239 Speaker 1: attention seeking, you know, the behavior is so bad, um, 411 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: and then you think about, you know, I should ignore 412 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: them or put them in time out or it don't 413 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: give them any attention when they're being naughty. And I 414 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: think if you think about them being grieving rather than jealous, 415 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: it's much more a better explanation of what they're going through. 416 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: So effectively they're grieving overnight. They've lost the relationship that 417 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: they had with you. They've lost the full focus of 418 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: your attention or your love or your connection. And sorry, 419 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: I normally make people cry at this point. Sorry if 420 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: but it is. It's like a loss, you know, and 421 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: you grieve as well, you grieve the loss of what 422 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: you had the day before. So I think if we 423 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: think of them as going through a grief transition process, 424 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: it makes us have compassion and empathy for them. It 425 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: makes us understand, you know, hey, buddy, this is really 426 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: half you. I get it. You've lost what we had 427 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: and you're struggling to cope with the way things are. 428 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: And it won't lost. You know, they will get over 429 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: it and they'll you know, they'll have a great relationship 430 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: with their sibling in months or years to come. But 431 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: you've just got to as you would treat somebody going 432 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: through grief, with compassion, And I think that's how we 433 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: need to treat them and accept the fact that they're 434 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: going to misbehave and that their behavior is going to 435 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: regress and they might not be very nice for all, 436 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: because nobody is very nice when they're grieving. What regressions 437 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: are quote unquote normal so um regressions that happen when 438 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: a new baby arrives and normally around you the feeling 439 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: of a loss of control or a loss of autonomy 440 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: for the first one, because you know everything they had 441 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: is gone and they can't control or what happens anymore. 442 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: There are only three things that they can control. That's 443 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: what they eat or what they swallow if you put 444 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: something in the mouth, whether they sleep and whether they 445 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: wake up in the night, and toileting or potty training. 446 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: So there's three common regressings that you might find after 447 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: a new baby are eating, so they might get really 448 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: picky about what they eat or pickier. All toddlers are 449 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: picky eaters, but maybe pickier um. And they might start 450 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: waking up more in the night, or lots of bedtime resistance, 451 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: like they won't go to bed. It's really common um. 452 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: And if they were reliably potty trend, you might start 453 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: to have accidents or really really normal they will go 454 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: and it's not a guarantee that you'll experience them, but 455 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: if they do happen, and just think, I know what 456 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: this is. This is that brief transition period. Just try 457 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: and big breasts get through it. And it will get better. 458 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: This is such a good reminder. I have to make 459 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: sure my husband listens to this episode because I also 460 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: imagine that with lack of sleep and all of that, 461 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: your patients is going to I mean, I've already noticed 462 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: how much my patience, how short it is, just being 463 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: pregnant and running after a toddler. Like I've said things 464 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: I've never said to him, you know, like when he's 465 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: testing and just like oh yeah, I have my sleep 466 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: sack on, my nighttime diaper, my pajamas and now and 467 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm in bed, and now I have to poop like 468 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: that's like a regular thing. And then I have to 469 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: take him out and take off everything off and all 470 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: this crap. Sometimes I've literally said to him, this is ridiculous, Albie, 471 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: I cannot do this anymore, like like talking to him 472 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: like an adult. But I'm going to keep saying a 473 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: mantra into my head. He's grieving's not doing this celebrity. 474 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: He's going through a hard time rather than deliberately giving 475 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: me a hard time. You know you will lead your 476 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: ship because the parents do you know, you're not superman. 477 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: You you are going to shout, you cry, You'll have 478 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: attention if he has attention, and I think you need 479 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: the sort of graciousness to accept that your behavior might 480 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: regress a bit as well, and that's okay. And you 481 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: know what. The other reminder is there that I've found 482 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: helpful is like the couple times will that couple come 483 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: on more than that that I've lost my ship on 484 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: LB as of recent is like hours later, I'll be like, hey, 485 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: but I'm really sorry that I overreacted a few hours 486 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: ago when you asked to go to the bathroom and 487 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: I was I was short with you, and I'm sorry 488 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: and that wasn't the right way to speak with you. 489 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: And I'll try to do better next time, you know 490 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: what I mean. So the best thing you can do. 491 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: And actually a lot of people think that I don't 492 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: make mistakes because I'm a parenting expert. I hate that phrase, 493 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: but you know that's what my publishers make me call myself. 494 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: But I really really am not perfect. I really lose 495 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: it with my kids sometimes. But the one thing that 496 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: I will always try and do is apologize to them. 497 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: So in the hitts the moment, you probably just need 498 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: to go and breathe and calm down away from the kids. 499 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: But once you've had a breathe, once you've thought about 500 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: everything calmed down, the most important thing is just to 501 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: go and apologize to them and reconnect. So it's called 502 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: the rupture remember pair cycle. There's the rupture of when 503 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: you lose it, but then there's the repair of that reconnection. 504 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: And it's so important for your job for the parents 505 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: to apologize to them because it teaches them all sorts 506 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: of relationship skills, but most importantly, it teaches them what 507 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: they should do in the future when they mess up 508 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: with the relationship. So if we never made a mistake, 509 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: they wouldn't learn how to apologize. So to see it 510 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: as a positive thing to right ideas of how to 511 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: get number one active and involved? Is that helpful? Like, 512 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: definitely give them a special job so that they feel 513 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: kind of a sense of pride and control. So it 514 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: could be that every time the baby needs a diaper check. 515 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: It's really weird, same diaper We call them nappies in 516 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: the UK, and I have to remind myself to use 517 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: a US words. But yeah, every time they need a 518 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: diaper change, then that's their job. So that they could 519 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: be like the diaper duty person and they get everything 520 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: together and then and their job could be because I 521 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: get the wipes out for you and piss them to you, 522 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: or if you are breastfeeding, their job could be go 523 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: and get a blanket for the baby or get a 524 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: muslin or something. So every time that they have a 525 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: role as well. But I would also if you're talking 526 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: about breastfeeding or nursing, have like a selection of toys 527 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: or activities that only come out when you're breastfeeding. So 528 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: that's a great tip. Get some like anything that's that's new, 529 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: that's novel to them that they really like. Put them 530 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: in a box and it only comes out. So it's like, okay, 531 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: it's time to breastfeed the baby. Now go and get 532 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: your breastfeeding toys and come and sit them next to 533 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: me and we'll go through these. But and then when 534 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: you finish the feed, put them away right so that 535 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: they hold a special interest. But yeah, the more jobs, 536 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: the more special activities are better. And things like if 537 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: you need to buy something for the baby, take your 538 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: first born on a shopping trip and let them pick 539 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: something out as well. This is a big sphere of mine. 540 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: So my first is a boy um and he's he's 541 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: an aggressive player. It's how he wrote, like his best 542 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: friends are two years older. It's a lot of wrestling. 543 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: It's so foreign to me because I'm so like I. 544 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: I can't even watch like boxing matches, Like I have 545 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: such a not a great association with physical play. And 546 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: my son is very physical, and I'm pregnant with the daughter, 547 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: she might be very physical too. I have no idea. 548 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: We'll see when she's like when she comes here. Um, 549 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: but my question is what is the correct language around 550 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: if your first is aggressive with your second, which I'm 551 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: sure happens to everybody, so um, two things. I think 552 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: you've got to think about why they're doing it. So 553 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just just an accident, you know, they just 554 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: you have over enthusiastic hugs or giving them a toy, 555 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: and they don't mean to hurt the baby. They're just 556 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: toddlers and they don't have the control of the body 557 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: that we do. So there I work on teaching them 558 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: to be gentle, so you know, gentle hands or whatever. 559 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: But don't tell them to be gentle. Show them how 560 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: to be gentle. So like you could get them a 561 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: doll that you play with and you show them how 562 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: to This is how to gently stroke the baby, or 563 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: this is how to sort of gently hug the baby, 564 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: or something like that, but actually role play it, role 565 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: play with dolls or say to them, you know, this 566 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: is how you gently touch somebody. Let money do it 567 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: to your hand, and then you do it to me 568 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: so that they know what you mean. And then I 569 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: think sometimes you have to kind of let it slide 570 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: when they are a bit overenthusiastic. Um you very quickly 571 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: find that your second baby is incredibly resilient, and I 572 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: don't try as much because they get used to kind 573 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: of being hit and over if youssily stroked or something 574 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: right from the off. And they also tend to be 575 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: much easier sleep wise as well, because your toddler will 576 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: do something and you have to quickly put the baby down. 577 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: Then they will have to get themselves off to sleep 578 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: because you're trying to stop your toddler doing something horrendously 579 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: dangerous that if they are, if they're doing it on purpose, 580 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: so they actually purpose trying to hurt the baby, then 581 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: I would be again going back to that grief mindset, 582 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: the baby is the thing that has changed their life 583 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: at that moment in time. They kind of wish the 584 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: baby wasn't there, or they're showing you know, you've hurt me, 585 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: so I'm hurting you. So the way to resolve that 586 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 1: is not to punish them or shout at them when 587 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: they do it. It's trying to think, you know, how 588 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: can I make things better for this child so that 589 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: they don't need to behave in that way, and that 590 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: the best thing that you can do there is trying 591 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: to get some once a one time with them away 592 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: from the baby, and try and build that time in 593 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: every day. So even if it's like fifteen minutes and 594 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: you do bedtime together with partner or grandparents or somebody 595 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: with the baby in a totally different room. I keep 596 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: hearing this fifteen a minute magic number, which has really 597 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: been such a savior to me being pregnant and and 598 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: like COVID, just like if I can do fifteen minutes 599 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: once or twice a day with no phone, him leading 600 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: the play a hundred send attention, it goes miles, like 601 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: it really does, sucking miles, and it takes the pressure 602 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: of me where it's like, oh God, I don't have 603 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: that three hour window to take him on an adventure 604 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: of something that has never done. Like that's not happening, 605 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: you know. I mean the two things that work the 606 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: best is just ten or fifteen minutes, as you said, 607 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: put the phone down, get down on the floor with 608 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: them and play. But say to them, what do you 609 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: want to play? You decide what we do, so whatever 610 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: stupid things they want to do, that you join with them. 611 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: And then I think the most important thing that you 612 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: can do is do bedtime if you've got another adult 613 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: in the house. So what tends to happen when we 614 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: have another baby if there's two of you, is the 615 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: partner will then automatically take over bedtime for the firstborn 616 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: and the mom will then automatically do the baby in 617 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: the evening. But actually it works much better if you 618 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: can swap it around, because after a day with the baby, 619 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: what the toddler or the first one really ideally need 620 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: is time with mom and mom alone at bedtime. And 621 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of the most important time of day. 622 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: It's you know, that's the end of their day where 623 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: they're processing what they've been through and they're going to sleep. 624 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: So if they can have that time with you and 625 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: dad or partner has got the baby in a different room, 626 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: and it's likely you know, if you're breastfeeding. I would 627 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: breastfeed and then kind of run and say here, take 628 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: the baby to take them in the car. You feel 629 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes half an hour while I do the 630 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: first one's bedtime. It has a huge impact. Yeah, that's 631 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: so interesting, mostly because I was so sick, uh, starting 632 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: at about four or five o'clock with this pregnancy that 633 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: like I was dead to the world, like I couldn't deal. 634 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: So he's been doing bedtime and I do mornings. He 635 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: wakes up with me and we do all of our books. 636 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: I do like thirty minutes with him in the morning, 637 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: but I guess we should switch it up. Yeah, you know. 638 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: And also the other thing is it doesn't have to 639 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: be every day, but if if you can both do 640 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: bedtime at some point, it makes them much more flexible, 641 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: so that they you end up with a child who 642 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: won't only go to sleep for mom or who won't 643 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: on you got to sleep with dad. And actually the 644 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: wonderful thing is it makes the baby much more flexible. 645 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: So when I talk to parents about sleep, one of 646 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: the most common questions I get is dad or partner 647 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: can't get the baby to sleep, only I can do it. 648 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: Particularly breastfeeding moms. You know, what can I do? How 649 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: can I help dad to get the baby to sleep? 650 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: And with your second baby, you have this marvelous sort 651 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: of opportunity from the first because if dad has the 652 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: baby in the evening or partner has the baby in 653 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: the evening, then the baby gets used to go and 654 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: to sleep for them as well as you. You end 655 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: up that like all on you exactly. So you know, 656 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: in six months time, you don't have that baby who 657 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: will only go to seep for mom, which is normal, 658 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: but it's a lot more helpful for you if you've 659 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: got both kids will go to sleep for both adults. Yeah, 660 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: like you've set yourself up for doing way too much 661 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: if you're just the baby, or let me just do 662 00:33:50,160 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: it because it only works when I do it. So 663 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: if you have family that's helping you with the baby, sisters, siblings, friends. 664 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: I know with COVID it's different, but my parents are 665 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: going to be here and they'll be watching Albie. I 666 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: was just under the impression spoil him, give him whatever 667 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: he wants, and give him all the attention in the world. 668 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: Tell me what's right or wrong and what I should 669 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: tell them they should be doing with with with baby 670 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: one kind of pretty much what you've just said. But 671 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: it's really important to discipline and have boundaries to a 672 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: lot of parents will start to feel so guilty that 673 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: they end up really permissive and they just do anything 674 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: the firstborn wants because they don't want to upset them anymore. 675 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 1: And actually that's not good for them either. So don't 676 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: be afraid to discipline him or have those boundaries and limits. 677 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: But also, yeah, shower him with love and attention, play 678 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: with him. If they're going to bring a gift for 679 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: the baby, I would say, can you bring a small 680 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: gift for him too? Sure? Sure, but yeah, keeps normality 681 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: going as well. It's again, at the moment it's difficult, 682 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: but if he goes to daycare or something like that, 683 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: then I would actually keep that up right, right, right right. 684 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: His normal things is normal activities and routines. Try and 685 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: keep them up as much as possible, because that kind 686 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: of gives us some predictability to an otherwise very unpredictable situation. 687 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. We talked about the massive mom guilt. I've 688 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: had moms just breaking down crying towards the end of 689 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: the pregnancy with their second really morning and grieving and um, 690 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, saying goodbye to what was once a two 691 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: or three family unit that's now changing up. Any advice 692 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: for those moms and those horrible feelings, The only advice 693 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: I think is that everybody will feel it to some extent. 694 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with you. It's really normal, and I 695 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: think just kind of accept the feelings, but also under 696 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: some eventually they will fade. I don't think there's anything 697 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: you can do to make them go quicker. You will 698 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: absolutely have enough love for another baby. Your love has 699 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be divided, it multiplies. However, guilt will 700 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: never completely go. You know, my eldest is eighteen, and 701 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: I still feel guilty sometimes. You know, you still have 702 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: those pangs of what if, what if there was just 703 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: you or thinking back to those times when there was 704 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: just you, And that doesn't make you a bad person. 705 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: M So just be kind to yourself. I think that's 706 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: the whole thing with the second baby, is just be 707 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: kind to everybody. Everybody's grieving, everybody's see I haven't felt 708 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: that yet. I'm curious. Like I'm very close with my 709 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: brother and he we have like a for everyone listening. 710 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: We have a two year nine month age difference. I 711 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: tried to recreate that, and I got an acting job 712 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: and couldn't have that happen. So my children are three 713 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: years and two months apart, which I will blame for 714 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: the rest of their existence when they don't get along, 715 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: which is so so stupid. But I feel like my 716 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: brother was the greatest gift my mom ever gave me. 717 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: Like period, I feel so fortunate that I don't walk 718 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: through my life alone, that there's one other person on 719 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: this earth that understands my parents the way we do, 720 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, like my significant other will never understand my 721 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: parents like my brother does. And I feel very relieved that, like, 722 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,919 Speaker 1: as we walk through our lives, that we have each other. 723 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: And that's going to be like a big hoop for 724 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: me to jump through because who knows if my children 725 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: will get along the way my brother. To keep reminding 726 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: use of that. And when you were a kids, there 727 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: would probably quite a lot of times when you didn't 728 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: like your brother, so you beat the ship out of 729 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: each other. Like my kids, they've got older, they've definitely 730 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: got closer together, but when they were little, it was 731 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: just like all at war. And I think so pressure 732 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: yourself all your children to be the greatest of friends, 733 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: and it it's also really boring for the total and 734 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: older child to have a baby. You know, babies are 735 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: really dull. When you want to play catch with them 736 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: or you want to run around with them and they 737 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: can't do anything. That relationship will grow and I don't 738 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: push them, they will push yourself to sort of have 739 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: it right from the start. But yeah, I agree. I 740 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: don't have any siblings, and I one thing ideally, which 741 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: is that I had a sibling, which is what I 742 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: kept reminding myself on the really bad days when my 743 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: kids were trying to kill each other. Oh my gosh, 744 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: I am so I'm very excited for this. I'm very 745 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: happy to have spent time with you talking about the 746 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: fact that I'm even having another child. And I do 747 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: think it's going to make my son a better person, 748 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: to be honest. And look, I know some fucking stellar 749 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: only children, you being one of them. Kerrie Washington is 750 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: an only child. My friend Angelie Cabral who has been 751 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: on this podcast, isn't only just she has step siblings. 752 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: But if you know, there are amazing only children in 753 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: the world, incredible. But I do think for my son 754 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: I'm like, good, look, he's the only grandchild, and the 755 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: sun moon stars sets on this freaking kid. I cannot 756 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: tell you how the attention to I mean, it is unreal, 757 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: But I'm going off on a tangent. Are there any 758 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: other pieces of advice you can give to anyone expecting 759 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: their second because you know, I think one thing I 760 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: had mentioned is think about your first birth a little bit. So, 761 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: particularly if your first birth was bit traumatic or it 762 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: didn't go as you want, I would always recommend you 763 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: spend some time kind of debriefing what happened, particularly if 764 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: you want to try for a natural labor second time. 765 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: So get somebody to explain the first time why things 766 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: went in the way that they did, so that you 767 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: can understand it so that you can make an informed 768 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,479 Speaker 1: choice about your second birth and how you want things 769 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: to go. I mean a lot of second time parents 770 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: who are just, oh, we're just going to go with 771 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: the flow, and that works for a lot of people. 772 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: But if you did have a to cook time first time, 773 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: I'd really recommend spending some time focusing. Usually mentioned I 774 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: think before we started speaking, have a chat with a 775 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: doo la or or a midwife or a prenatal coach 776 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: to kind of process what happened. That's a that is 777 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: something we've not touched on, which is an amazing piece 778 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: of advice because I have had a lot of mom 779 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: friends heal through their second labor experience. Their first was 780 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: very traumatic and out of control feeling, and they were 781 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: petrified to give birth again. And what it did was 782 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: healed their first experience because they really went into their 783 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: second in a different way or having processed the first one, 784 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: and they came out of their second feeling better about 785 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: their first one. And it's not just about your second 786 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 1: being a perfect natural birth, having elective cesarian right, but 787 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: you've really things are going to go the way you 788 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: want them to this time, and you've made a plan 789 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: and you feel much more in control. Inform yourself about everything, 790 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: debrief and think about how you can take control, and yeah, absolutely, 791 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: you can put a lot of demons to bed from 792 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: your first birth, which really helps with the kind of 793 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: the bonding and the early days with the second baby. 794 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: That is incredible advice for you guys listening. I'm so 795 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 1: scared because I've had a fear of labor my entire life, 796 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: and I overstudied and overprepared and over freaked out, and 797 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: so nothing could have been as bad as I thought 798 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: it was going to be, and it wasn't. It was great. 799 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: It was like the best day of my life. It 800 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: was absolutely wonderful. And it just occurred to me the 801 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: other day, I was like, holy shit, I could have 802 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: like an emergency C section, Like it could go completely 803 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: differently than the first one. This pregnancy has been completely 804 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: different than the first one. Is the trick to not 805 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 1: compare it to the first time. What you're saying, you've 806 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: not been anxious about it probably will make it easier 807 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: this time because we carry that anxiety in that fear 808 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: to birth with us. So I think that imp is 809 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: what makes second verse easier. That obviously, if you had 810 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: an easy time first time around. The one thing that 811 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: I think somebody in your situation, if your first birth 812 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,959 Speaker 1: was fairly easy or fairly short, like the average first 813 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: time neighbors about thirteen hours, So if it was shorter 814 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: than that, research what to do if your baby comes 815 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 1: before you get to the hospital or the first central 816 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: or mid my thrived. I used to be a doer. 817 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: I've been to many births, and I was an antenatal 818 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: teacher or prenatal teacher. And I've been at many of 819 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: what we call born before arrivals of second babies that 820 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: don't wait for medical staff for arriving at hospitals. So 821 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: just research that. There's a little bit about the book 822 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: in it. But if it happens really quickly, it's a 823 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: great sign. But just make sure you and whoever else 824 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: is with you knows what to do if it progresses 825 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: really quickly. Oh my god. We had a lantis more 826 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: event on this podcast, and I think it was for 827 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,720 Speaker 1: a second actually had that sort of situation. The dula 828 00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: never made it, the midwife never made it, her baby 829 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: was here hour, and her freaking husband. My husband would 830 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: be fainted dead on the floor. There's no way. He 831 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: can't even see blood. Just make sure he knows what 832 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: to do if it happens really quickly. Oh my god, 833 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, anything is possible. I've been to three second 834 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: verse that we're all born into the toilet? Do you 835 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: call them toilets? And yes, literally, mom, no medical stuff 836 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: and Mom just thought I need to go to the 837 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: loo and you need to have a poo And it 838 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: wasn't and it was a baby way that is, it 839 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: had just before we go. Did you any of your 840 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: four happened like that? Like? Was it so fast? So? Yeah, 841 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: my first year in hospital, and they were first was 842 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: really long. Second, I was in juice. It's quite quick 843 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: because it's in juice. I had preclamps which I think so, 844 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: which is actually one of the risks for mom if 845 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: you have a very close age. So I got pregnant 846 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: with my first one was six months old. Really yeah, 847 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, I look back now, I think what was 848 00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: I doing? Yes, so that's what you were doing, but 849 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: too much? Apparently. My third and fourth I had at home. 850 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: I actually third babies, labor tends to get longer, bizarrely, 851 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: so it's normally first long, second short, third medium. My 852 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: fourth baby was I think just about an hour from 853 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: first contraction to be born. Here was done at home, thankfully, 854 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 1: So I had a birthpall at home and I rang, 855 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: got my husband's ring the midwife, and the midwife turned 856 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: up with her coat still on and I'm my baby's 857 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 1: coming right now, and it was lovely. It was in Yeah, 858 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: all my three kids are upstairs asleep and missed all 859 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: of it. It It was kind of perfect, but would have 860 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,760 Speaker 1: freaked me out of it. Happened second time. Wow. So Sarah, 861 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: thank you so much for all of your time, and 862 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: can you tell our listeners where we can find you, 863 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: where they can get your book. Say, my website is 864 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,439 Speaker 1: just my name, Sarah well Smith. It's got a little 865 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: hyphen in it, dot com. I'm on Instagram as Sarah 866 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: or Smith. I'm on Facebook as Sarah Smith author, and 867 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: I'm on to sir as the Baby Expert which started 868 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,919 Speaker 1: off as a bit of a joke, like a tongue 869 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: in cheek thing, but it kind of stopped. You got 870 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: printed on my books. I've had to keep it, so 871 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: it's the Baby expert Um and the books available kind 872 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: of everybody. You can buy books, great guys, if you 873 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: are entertaining the idea of getting pregnant with another, if 874 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: you're expecting your other, if you've brought your other home 875 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: and everything's going to ship, whatever. I highly recommend this 876 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: book because it has everything in it and it's so accessible. 877 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: The Second Baby Book, How to Cope with Pregnancy number 878 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: two and create a happy home for your firstborn and 879 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: new arrival. Sarah Akwill Smith, thank you so much for 880 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: coming to us from England from your very cold, beautiful place. 881 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you so much everybody, and you guys. 882 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts, questions, comments, you know where 883 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: to find me. It's Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com. 884 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: Thank you all for tuning into katie Crib and for 885 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: your beautiful messages and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with 886 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: you and hearing your stories and questions. So email me 887 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com. We may 888 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,720 Speaker 1: just feature you on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks, guys. 889 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in 890 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shanda 891 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 892 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite ships. Never until 893 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: you try