Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast
Speaker 1: Chris Ayris and Lauren Zema Company from the home office
Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. Elsie, we have such a beautiful show
Speaker 1: to share with everybody today.
Speaker 2: When we heard about Kirsten and Jason Clawson's story in
Speaker 2: an article in People magazine, we really wanted to have
Speaker 2: them on. So Kirsten and Jason both lost their spouses
Speaker 2: Valerie and Cody, to cancer, and then they found each
Speaker 2: other and now they've gotten married and welcomed a new
Speaker 2: baby girl, and it's just an incredible story of persevering
Speaker 2: through grief finding joy on the other side. And the
Speaker 2: tips that they gave us on how to do that,
Speaker 2: the actionable pointers that they had, how to date, how
Speaker 2: to support your friends going through grief, how to parent
Speaker 2: through grief are such incredible takeaways because not only are
Speaker 2: they living with grief, but actually Jason self is a therapist.
Speaker 2: So I've just never learned so much about the grief
Speaker 2: space in such a short amount of time. We cannot
Speaker 2: wait for you guys to hear this. Here is our
Speaker 2: chat with Kirsen and Jason.
Speaker 1: Such a beautiful story. We read this article in People
Speaker 1: Magazine and just thought, you know, the most dramatic podcast
Speaker 1: ever despite the name, is actually about love and spreading love.
Speaker 1: And what an amazing loving story the two of you
Speaker 1: have give us kind of a broad overview of y'all's story.
Speaker 3: Sure, So, Jason and I both lost our first spous
Speaker 3: list to cancer. Jason lost his first wife, Valerie, to
Speaker 3: colon cancer in twenty nineteen and I lost my first
Speaker 3: husband to leukemia in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: And we kind of met.
Speaker 3: Through a Facebook group that was dedicated to young widows
Speaker 3: and widowers in our area, and we started to know
Speaker 3: of each other through that group, and it turned out
Speaker 3: that we both kind of felt ready to start.
Speaker 4: Mingling again, dating again, and.
Speaker 3: So we ended up connecting on a on a dating app,
Speaker 3: and yeah, when when Jason popped up online, we we
Speaker 3: uh connected and and uh it was just kind of
Speaker 3: magic from from there on out.
Speaker 5: We've been married for over two years and our little
Speaker 5: miracle baby, Macy is a year and a half old.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 5: Early. We got married in January and four months later,
Speaker 5: Kirsen is on the phone calling me and saying, guess what,
Speaker 5: I'm pregnant, and she's like, this can't be happening. I've
Speaker 5: been told by doctors that I'm not supposed to have
Speaker 5: kids and Parvard all that explain this, She says. I'm
Speaker 5: I'm not happy with this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't happy with the news
Speaker 4: because well, we're in our forties for one.
Speaker 3: And and uh, it just was I really thought that
Speaker 3: it was going to be another experience of loss. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so I wasn't. I was really scared. I was
Speaker 3: really scared, and I was I was pretty unhappy about it.
Speaker 4: And it has turned out she turned out to be.
Speaker 3: You know, a very healthy baby and just a light
Speaker 3: and a joy and a gift, and a completely unexpected
Speaker 3: one at that.
Speaker 1: So hence the miracle baby.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you never know what life's going to throw
Speaker 2: at you, do you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we never. Yeah, we didn't expect this and we
Speaker 5: were happy. Actually, before we got married, we talked about
Speaker 5: are we okay with not having children? And we agreed.
Speaker 5: We're like, yeah, we're in our forties, Yeah, that's totally fine.
Speaker 5: We have two boys that take care of and all
Speaker 5: of a sudden, there's miracle came out of nowhere. And
Speaker 5: we always say the miracle that we prayed for to
Speaker 5: have our spouse is healed. Didn't happen, But the miracle
Speaker 5: that we got is the one that God wanted us
Speaker 5: to be able to help heal our heart and bring
Speaker 5: our family closer together.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, when did it change for
Speaker 2: you guys, because I think women can so understand what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, Kirsten, of that fear and if you've
Speaker 2: been through grief, that fear of more loss. But when
Speaker 2: did it change to realize like, Okay, wait, now we
Speaker 2: have this new perspective on this was the miracle that
Speaker 2: we were supposed.
Speaker 4: To have when she was born.
Speaker 3: I think I think it really took until she was
Speaker 3: actually here for me to get to that space of Okay,
Speaker 3: this really is our plan, this is our path. I
Speaker 3: had embraced the pregnancy far earlier, but I was still
Speaker 3: so scared.
Speaker 4: The whole time. I was just I was so so scared.
Speaker 3: But when she came, it was like, oh, of course,
Speaker 3: this is exactly what you're supposed to have.
Speaker 4: I remember seeing her for the first time and.
Speaker 3: This just being completely blown away. I think that's probably
Speaker 3: true for any mother that has a baby, right is
Speaker 3: you know, they welcome a child into the world and
Speaker 3: it's this person that you know, you were supposed to
Speaker 3: know your whole life is finally here, and that's just
Speaker 3: kind of what it was.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, Yers, you just hit on something that
Speaker 2: I talk so. I lost my dad when I was
Speaker 2: in college, and I do a lot of work with
Speaker 2: them grief and kids who have gone through grief, And
Speaker 2: you just hit on something that I talk about with
Speaker 2: people so much, which is timing. And I wonder if
Speaker 2: you guys can speak to that a little bit because
Speaker 2: I've spoken to my own mom a lot about like
Speaker 2: timing and when she started dating after losing my dad,
Speaker 2: and I think I've had to do a lot of
Speaker 2: growing over the years to realize actually how long it
Speaker 2: was going to take her. You know, I think grief's
Speaker 2: different for everybody, and I so wanted her to be
Speaker 2: happy and wanted her to heal, but she had to
Speaker 2: do things in her own time. So can you guys
Speaker 2: speak a little bit on that, the timing of like
Speaker 2: when you knew and how you knew and how it
Speaker 2: helped you find this new happiness.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think one thing that man Kirson talked a
Speaker 5: lot about was you got to do your work to
Speaker 5: be able to be in the position to be ready
Speaker 5: to meet up with each other, because what we didn't
Speaker 5: want to do is we didn't want to replace our spouse.
Speaker 5: There's this empty hole here that we're wanting to replace,
Speaker 5: But we didn't necessarily want to find another valerie or
Speaker 5: find another code because we are growing through this grief
Speaker 5: and we're accepting this new reality and it comes with
Speaker 5: like leaning into the discomfort of the situation and becoming
Speaker 5: this new person. So we had to do We had
Speaker 5: to go to therapy, we had to do our own work.
Speaker 5: We had to emotionally, spiritually, physically do our work. So
Speaker 5: we are emotionally mature and emotionally intelligent that when another
Speaker 5: person comes into our lives, we can have those deeper conversations.
Speaker 5: We can talk about each other's spouse without jealousy. We
Speaker 5: can talk about each other's spouse and celebrate their life
Speaker 5: and feel like they are a part of our life forever.
Speaker 5: They're not this spouse that is disappeared that will no
Speaker 5: longer be a part of our life, but they are
Speaker 5: in our lives forever. And it's because of the work
Speaker 5: that we did in preparation to meet each other. So
Speaker 5: when we met, it's like, oh, this makes sense. I mean,
Speaker 5: our conversations are deeper. We don't talk about superficial things.
Speaker 5: I mean, from the time I was texting her, I
Speaker 5: just said, you know what, Kirsen, I don't like texting.
Speaker 5: I'm going to call you. I called her and we
Speaker 5: talked for three hours the first time we met. And
Speaker 5: I think that really goes to the work and the
Speaker 5: depth of how much work we did in preparation to
Speaker 5: be able to be ready for each other. Anything you
Speaker 5: add vibe I would know.
Speaker 4: I think that's really pretty spot on. I think for me,
Speaker 4: I had well.
Speaker 3: Probably what's important to know is that both of our
Speaker 3: late spouses really encouraged us to find love again. And
Speaker 3: that's not always the case, or I truly believe that
Speaker 3: every you know, if somebody loves you, they want you
Speaker 3: to be happy, even if they're here, even if they're
Speaker 3: not here, they really would do want happiness for you.
Speaker 3: But both of our late spouses, in very special ways,
Speaker 3: really encouraged us to go forward and to continue to
Speaker 3: live a happy life and to make them proud and
Speaker 3: to find love again and so and that's one of
Speaker 3: the reasons why we did do our work, is because
Speaker 3: we knew that that was something that we needed to
Speaker 3: do for us and for them. For me, the timing
Speaker 3: was a surprise because it actually happened relatively fast. We
Speaker 3: were married a little over a year after my late
Speaker 3: husband passed away, and that was not my plan.
Speaker 4: You know, I really saw myself being single for several years.
Speaker 2: But it's but you just you just put that so perfectly,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to take that with me of not
Speaker 2: replacing someone doing the work to be ready to find
Speaker 2: a new, healthy, happy relationship, but not just looking to
Speaker 2: fill a void. That's one of the most brilliant things
Speaker 2: I've ever heard about grief.
Speaker 5: Thank you. Yeah, We've had to live that, and it's
Speaker 5: it's I mean, one thing that we value to is
Speaker 5: we still have I mean, look behind us. There's Cody's
Speaker 5: pitcher behind us. Yeah, and there's Valeries pictures in the
Speaker 5: front room. So they still are a part of our
Speaker 5: life and honored and we still celebrate their anniversaries and
Speaker 5: death days and it's just they're they're an extension to
Speaker 5: us and they're just a big part of our family.
Speaker 1: There's so much I want to ask you now because
Speaker 1: so many people listening. Grief is something because Lauren and
Speaker 1: I talk about this a lot. Grief is something that
Speaker 1: will unfortunately touch all of us at some point in
Speaker 1: our lives, and it's something that nobody talks about. It's
Speaker 1: so taboo in hush hush, and then when somebody loses somebody,
Speaker 1: you don't know what to say. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say the wrong thing. So I'll start with for people
Speaker 1: that have lost somebody, your advice on having the strength
Speaker 1: and the power and to move on that your life
Speaker 1: is not done because their life is over. So I.
Speaker 3: Will say that I took the perspective of I don't
Speaker 3: want my life to have lost all of its meaning
Speaker 3: because they're not here anymore. I want to show the
Speaker 3: world who I am because they were a part of it.
Speaker 3: I want to show the world world that when Cody died,
Speaker 3: I had this real, legitimate fear that the world was
Speaker 3: going to forget that he ever lived.
Speaker 4: And so my goal was to make sure the world
Speaker 4: knew that he lived.
Speaker 3: And if that was going to be through me being
Speaker 3: a better person, me fulfilling his last wishes, me continuing
Speaker 3: to honor it him however I needed to do that,
Speaker 3: I was going to do that, and I think that
Speaker 3: taking that perspective is actually very healthy.
Speaker 4: I think it's very healthy to find grief changes you.
Speaker 3: It changes you in ways you'll never expect, but it
Speaker 3: can change you in a way where you cultivate this beautiful,
Speaker 3: lasting bond with the person that's passed away, and you
Speaker 3: just you can just cultivate that and you grow that,
Speaker 3: and you do it by doing these really special themes
Speaker 3: to honor them and to make sure the world remembers them.
Speaker 4: That's what I think. What do you think?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the biggest saying is Valerie was such
Speaker 5: a light to so many people, and even even at
Speaker 5: our funeral, everybody's like I was Valerie's best friend. No,
Speaker 5: I was Valerie's best friend, and for that I didn't
Speaker 5: want that to be forgotten. So one of the things
Speaker 5: that me and my boys have done is we shortly
Speaker 5: after about nine months into my wife passing away, is
Speaker 5: we created a lemonade stand outside my house and we
Speaker 5: wanted to have baskets. We wanted to raise money and
Speaker 5: create these hope kits to to deliver to families that
Speaker 5: were struggling just like us. So we raised over fifteen
Speaker 5: hundred dollars and we started creating these kits in my
Speaker 5: wife's honor, and we call them be like bal baskets,
Speaker 5: and we begin to deliver them to people and embrace
Speaker 5: them and help them remember my wife's love as well
Speaker 5: as help them feel important at that moment. And to
Speaker 5: be able to do that is kind of emotional time
Speaker 5: out from what we are experiencing. But it was so
Speaker 5: healing to be able to say we care about you,
Speaker 5: we feel you, we know how hard it is. And
Speaker 5: to see my kids teaching their kids, it was just
Speaker 5: beautiful to watch. And this has been so healing in
Speaker 5: our journey that we continue on to give people these
Speaker 5: kits and help people and continue to honor each other's
Speaker 5: spouse because they are a part of us and they
Speaker 5: help us strengthen our relationship by continuing to honor them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will just add to that by saying,
Speaker 3: you know, we've talked a little bit about doing your work.
Speaker 3: What I don't think people understand, especially in the early
Speaker 3: days and months, or even the first year or so
Speaker 3: of grief, is that it requires work. You do.
Speaker 4: Surviving is easy.
Speaker 3: You get out from bed, you maybe brush your teeth
Speaker 3: that day, maybe maybe not shower, grab.
Speaker 4: Something, eat, go back to it.
Speaker 3: Surviving this is easy, but to really grow through the grief,
Speaker 3: you have to do your work.
Speaker 4: You have to do your work, whatever that is.
Speaker 2: I think you guys have just so hit the nail
Speaker 2: on the head in so many ways because I often
Speaker 2: see people and this is I'm not you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not judging them. Everybody's doing their best because grief is
Speaker 2: the hardest thing will go through. But you know, sometimes
Speaker 2: people might like, like it's awesome to have a support
Speaker 2: group for example, as you guys have done. But then
Speaker 2: I've seen people maybe like they can you can get
Speaker 2: a little stuck in like sharing but not doing the
Speaker 2: work and moving forward, you know, like you have to
Speaker 2: add the therapy into the mix and then okay, you're
Speaker 2: working on yourself. But what you just talked about giving
Speaker 2: back with those kits and helping others, I mean maybe selfishly,
Speaker 2: but for me, helping others has pushed me to a
Speaker 2: new level of healing with grief. And wow, you guys
Speaker 2: are what an example. So thank you and a.
Speaker 1: Great You had a good line there and I almost
Speaker 1: thought you were going to say, you know, surviving is easy,
Speaker 1: living and thriving is the difficult part. Anybody can just
Speaker 1: survive and move along, but actually living again that is Yes,
Speaker 1: it's very important. And when you know, one thing I've
Speaker 1: learned from Lauren about grief is it's that river right
Speaker 1: that's ever changing and ever flowing. And it sounds like
Speaker 1: you have Oddly, you two are very equipped, but oftentimes
Speaker 1: it would be one person who suffered loss the other
Speaker 1: person hasn't. You two are very well equipped because you're
Speaker 1: both suffering through this. But I also find it interesting
Speaker 1: because you're suffering and how you're dealing with loss is
Speaker 1: going to be different than the other person. So having
Speaker 1: that grace and understanding with each other is still important
Speaker 1: because it's always going to continue to change.
Speaker 5: Yes, and it changes sometimes with the weather, the season changes,
Speaker 5: and sometimes we don't understand why we're having a difficult
Speaker 5: day or a bad day, but obviously we're where the
Speaker 5: dates and the hard days that are coming up. But
Speaker 5: when we're able to recognize when Kirsten is off or
Speaker 5: having a bad day, we often check in with each
Speaker 5: other and say, how are you doing, what are you
Speaker 5: feeling today? What do you remember about this day? And
Speaker 5: we say is there something I can do for you?
Speaker 5: Can I listen to you? To be in tune to
Speaker 5: be able to help her go through those moments, and
Speaker 5: we're open enough to be able to communicate what each
Speaker 5: other need in those moments. I think a good example
Speaker 5: is we've been by each other's spouse's graves and Kirsen
Speaker 5: will say, hey, I'm getting emotional talking about this. She'll say,
Speaker 5: do you.
Speaker 6: Need a moment with Valerie? And I said, yes, I
Speaker 6: need a moment. So she'll go take the kids and
Speaker 6: I'll sit there and have my private moment with Valerie.
Speaker 6: And that is so special to me that she's able
Speaker 6: to honor and have us have that special moment. And
Speaker 6: we do it all the time for each other because
Speaker 6: we know how that is in their life.
Speaker 3: And I don't think you need to know grief to
Speaker 3: offer those moments either. I think it really is just
Speaker 3: seeking to understand what the other person is feeling and
Speaker 3: then allowing them the space to feel it without jealousy,
Speaker 3: or without resentment or you know, all of that those
Speaker 3: other ugly things.
Speaker 4: You don't need them, Yeah, you don't need them to
Speaker 4: allow them the moments that they need to grieve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for getting emotional. I love emotions.
Speaker 2: You made me cry, so that makes me happy.
Speaker 5: Being emotional is how I've healed. So I've had to
Speaker 5: be take off my mask of masculinity and say here
Speaker 5: I am. Yeah, I'm here to heal.
Speaker 2: How has that been.
Speaker 5: It's been difficult, very difficult. Yeah. I mean something that
Speaker 5: I teach people is about a healing team. And one
Speaker 5: of the hardest moments of my life was nine months
Speaker 5: after my wife. Life got too hard and I remember
Speaker 5: taking a lunch break. I'm a clinical therapist, so I'm
Speaker 5: actively helping people with difficult life changing events and it
Speaker 5: just got too heavy, and I remember pulling out my phone,
Speaker 5: texting people in my neighborhood family church group, and I said,
Speaker 5: I'm not doing okay. Can you guys meet me at
Speaker 5: my house. I just want to share you how hard
Speaker 5: it will be. I sent it and then seven o'clock
Speaker 5: came around that night, and all of a sudden, there
Speaker 5: was a knock at the door and I opened it
Speaker 5: up and I went, oh, no, I'm going to have
Speaker 5: to talk. And the reality of it was I actually
Speaker 5: called my own intervention and I'm sitting in my living room.
Speaker 5: I'm looking around and I finally took off my mask
Speaker 5: and I just opened up to my family, and right
Speaker 5: there where I could just be real and honest, because
Speaker 5: I think when I was wearing the mask, they couldn't
Speaker 5: tell how hard I was suffering. They didn't really know
Speaker 5: what's going on. But the moment I was vulnerable and
Speaker 5: invited vulnerability, I gave them permission to come in and
Speaker 5: say what they needed to do and start helping me
Speaker 5: the ways I needed to. And that was pivotal in
Speaker 5: the way that I changed my grief and then moving forward,
Speaker 5: we created a team. Whenever I got struggling or whenever
Speaker 5: I was having a hard day, I could text one
Speaker 5: word to my team captain, and my team captain would
Speaker 5: send a text out to people in my group, and
Speaker 5: everybody had an assignment in that group that they could
Speaker 5: take on, whether it be my parents would do my laundry,
Speaker 5: someone would do the yard work, someone would be me food,
Speaker 5: someone would take care of my kids, and the weight
Speaker 5: would be taken off and I could breathe until I
Speaker 5: can say I can do those again. I'm strong enough
Speaker 5: to build back. And that was a process of building
Speaker 5: resilience in my grief and doing my work that helped
Speaker 5: me heal and put me in such a better place
Speaker 5: to be a better father, be a better person, better therapist,
Speaker 5: and a better spouse. Today.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you
Speaker 2: for sharing all that, because I think it's important for
Speaker 2: people to know that, like therapists can't just therapy themselves. Actually,
Speaker 2: you're the second therapist we've had on talk about grief
Speaker 2: who also experienced loss themselves. And you know, there's part
Speaker 2: as a non therapist. I think there's part of me
Speaker 2: that goes but wait, can't you just recognize what's wrong
Speaker 2: in yourself and fix yourself?
Speaker 5: But right, yeah, exactly, can't look at the mirror and say, Jason,
Speaker 5: tell me how you really be?
Speaker 1: Yeah, before I let you guys go, you mentioned you Jason,
Speaker 1: you had kids. How has that been? How did you
Speaker 1: guys work on that with loss and the kids, Kirsten
Speaker 1: and both of you. And advice again for people that
Speaker 1: you know are trying to move on. But that's another
Speaker 1: kind of obstacle and hurdle you have to overcome.
Speaker 4: Funny, because we were just talking about this last night.
Speaker 3: I have a friend from high school whose husband just
Speaker 3: passed away from cancer, and she reached out asking, you know,
Speaker 3: I've got three kids, how do I not project my grief,
Speaker 3: how do I keep parenting and grief?
Speaker 1: So we were just talking about how do you bring
Speaker 1: somebody new into a relationship when they're still missing their
Speaker 1: dad or their mom exactly.
Speaker 5: You know what. Boston, he had a really good relationship
Speaker 5: with my wife and he's our oldest, he's seventeen right now.
Speaker 5: But we've had to do a couple things. My seventeen
Speaker 5: year old and my eleven year old, they process griefs
Speaker 5: so differently. Where Boston goes internal, he doesn't say a word,
Speaker 5: he's silent, and then my other Cooper, he's really behaviorally.
Speaker 5: He's acting out and screaming. I something's going on, and
Speaker 5: I don't know what's going on. So one thing that
Speaker 5: I had to do is I had to figure out
Speaker 5: I had to understand that, and then I had to
Speaker 5: figure out a way to be able to help them
Speaker 5: communicate and share without me being the therapist and asking
Speaker 5: them questions. We had to do some creative ways of
Speaker 5: processing their emotions where we did art. We sat down
Speaker 5: at the kitchen table and I gave them a question
Speaker 5: and they would create and draw something that helped them
Speaker 5: express themselves. But so doing different things to help them
Speaker 5: was so helpful. And then with Boston, I think we
Speaker 5: need to be aware and give our kids some credit
Speaker 5: because my son, when I started looking at dating, actually
Speaker 5: he was saying, hey, hey, Dad, what are you going
Speaker 5: to start dating again? And I said, I'm doing my work.
Speaker 5: I'm getting there. And I remember him saying, Dad, we
Speaker 5: I get emotional again. We need a mom, We need
Speaker 5: a mom in our life. And I was just so
Speaker 5: blown away that he was coaching his dad, telling him
Speaker 5: what he needed. He needed a mother in the home,
Speaker 5: he needed someone to be there and to take care
Speaker 5: of some of those individual needs that I wasn't doing
Speaker 5: a very good job.
Speaker 1: And they know you're better when you're happy in your whole.
Speaker 5: Chris, and I think that.
Speaker 4: What I saw it, I think he saw it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that was a pivotal point of
Speaker 5: my son's giving me a pep talk and saying, let's
Speaker 5: do your work so you can be in a position
Speaker 5: to help and bring someone into our lives. And it
Speaker 5: was it was difficult and hard to be able to
Speaker 5: have that, and we were super nervous about bringing someone
Speaker 5: into the home and the relationship. But one thing that
Speaker 5: we talked about the other day with someone was we
Speaker 5: were getting ready to watch something on TV and my
Speaker 5: boys are like, hey, Dad, she's your girlfriend, right, And
Speaker 5: I go, yeah, goes, if she's your girlfriend, let you
Speaker 5: invite her over and hang out with us. And I
Speaker 5: was like, oh my gosh. They are more ready than
Speaker 5: we give them credit. So being able to listen to
Speaker 5: them and what they're telling us is so vital in
Speaker 5: the process because I feel like kids are sometimes casualties
Speaker 5: in the whole situation where they get left out. We're
Speaker 5: not authentic, we're not real about how what's going on
Speaker 5: even with our emotions. That the more that we have
Speaker 5: those conversations or we create more of those conversations to
Speaker 5: have those open conversations and talk about real things that
Speaker 5: can be so beautiful, and your kids could probably tell
Speaker 5: you something that will help unlock your grief. So we
Speaker 5: need to give them more credit more often.
Speaker 3: And when I came into the family, I don't require
Speaker 3: that they call me mom, and I try very very
Speaker 3: hard to make sure that they know that I'm not
Speaker 3: here to replace their mom.
Speaker 4: In fact, I refer to Valerie a lot as my
Speaker 4: partner and parenting.
Speaker 3: Her pictures are up and I'm just I'm the mom
Speaker 3: on earth she's the mom in heaven. But we do
Speaker 3: work together and in Boston, the seventeen year old, he
Speaker 3: doesn't call me mom, but the eleven year old does.
Speaker 3: And we don't pressure them in any way, just allow
Speaker 3: them to do what they feel is most comfortable to them.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't give you guys enough credit. I've, like
Speaker 2: I said, I've done a lot of work with people
Speaker 2: going through grief, and I'm blown away by your strength,
Speaker 2: your awareness, much inte, your emotional intelligence and all this.
Speaker 2: It's just incredible. So thank you. When we heard your
Speaker 2: story and read about it and people we really wanted
Speaker 2: to have you all on and I've taken away so
Speaker 2: much from this podcast, So thank you both, so so much.
Speaker 5: Oh, We're honored to be here talking to you guys.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you talked to us about Valerie and Cody today.
Speaker 2: That was awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Which, by the way, they were both huge fans of
Speaker 4: the batch.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the men are bigger fans than the women.
Speaker 4: I've found one was the he was the bigger fan.
Speaker 1: It helps you, he helps you take off that emotional mask.
Speaker 1: It kind of got Yeah, all our love and continued
Speaker 1: success and continue growing together. As a beautiful couple. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you again to Jason and Kirsten. You know,
Speaker 2: one thing that really is sticking with me too is
Speaker 2: that support group from his friends that he had. Like,
Speaker 2: I think so many people struggle with how to help,
Speaker 2: what to do, what to say, And I might be
Speaker 2: getting this wrong, but the research shows that after just
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. I don't want to say that
Speaker 2: it's either three weeks or three months, but just a
Speaker 2: matter of weeks, people like the support for someone who's
Speaker 2: grieving kind of fades. You know, in the beginning, people
Speaker 2: send flowers and send food, and then they don't know
Speaker 2: what to do.
Speaker 1: To get back to your own life and your stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think that's support group with the specific tasks
Speaker 2: and he can just send a group text if he
Speaker 2: needs help.
Speaker 1: I like having a code word to a captain and
Speaker 1: then it disseminates.
Speaker 2: It was like a phone tree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're not calling and asking and begging everybody
Speaker 1: to help, it's like they just do.
Speaker 2: That was such a great idea. So if you know
Speaker 2: someone who's going through loss, I think setting that up
Speaker 2: is incredible. So Jason and Kirsten continue to share pointers
Speaker 2: and info on their journey on their Instagram Light after
Speaker 2: Grief like finding the light in the dark. The handle
Speaker 2: is at Light after Grief and thank you so much
Speaker 2: again to them and we will talk to you guys
Speaker 2: next time because we have.
Speaker 1: A lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and
Speaker 1: make sure to write us a review and leave us
Speaker 1: five stars. I'll talk to you next time.