1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Chris Ayris and Lauren Zema Company from the home office 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. Elsie, we have such a beautiful show 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: to share with everybody today. 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: When we heard about Kirsten and Jason Clawson's story in 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: an article in People magazine, we really wanted to have 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: them on. So Kirsten and Jason both lost their spouses 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: Valerie and Cody, to cancer, and then they found each 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 2: other and now they've gotten married and welcomed a new 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: baby girl, and it's just an incredible story of persevering 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: through grief finding joy on the other side. And the 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: tips that they gave us on how to do that, 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 2: the actionable pointers that they had, how to date, how 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: to support your friends going through grief, how to parent 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: through grief are such incredible takeaways because not only are 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: they living with grief, but actually Jason self is a therapist. 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: So I've just never learned so much about the grief 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: space in such a short amount of time. We cannot 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 2: wait for you guys to hear this. Here is our 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: chat with Kirsen and Jason. 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Such a beautiful story. We read this article in People 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: Magazine and just thought, you know, the most dramatic podcast 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: ever despite the name, is actually about love and spreading love. 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: And what an amazing loving story the two of you 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: have give us kind of a broad overview of y'all's story. 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: Sure, So, Jason and I both lost our first spous 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: list to cancer. Jason lost his first wife, Valerie, to 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: colon cancer in twenty nineteen and I lost my first 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: husband to leukemia in twenty twenty. 30 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 4: And we kind of met. 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 3: Through a Facebook group that was dedicated to young widows 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 3: and widowers in our area, and we started to know 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: of each other through that group, and it turned out 34 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: that we both kind of felt ready to start. 35 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 4: Mingling again, dating again, and. 36 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: So we ended up connecting on a on a dating app, 37 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 3: and yeah, when when Jason popped up online, we we 38 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: uh connected and and uh it was just kind of 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: magic from from there on out. 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 5: We've been married for over two years and our little 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 5: miracle baby, Macy is a year and a half old. 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: So. 43 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 5: Early. We got married in January and four months later, 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 5: Kirsen is on the phone calling me and saying, guess what, 45 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 5: I'm pregnant, and she's like, this can't be happening. I've 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 5: been told by doctors that I'm not supposed to have 47 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 5: kids and Parvard all that explain this, She says. I'm 48 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 5: I'm not happy with this. 49 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't happy with the news 50 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 4: because well, we're in our forties for one. 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: And and uh, it just was I really thought that 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 3: it was going to be another experience of loss. Yeah, 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: and so I wasn't. I was really scared. I was 54 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 3: really scared, and I was I was pretty unhappy about it. 55 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 4: And it has turned out she turned out to be. 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: You know, a very healthy baby and just a light 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 3: and a joy and a gift, and a completely unexpected 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: one at that. 59 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: So hence the miracle baby. 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you never know what life's going to throw 61 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: at you, do you. 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, we never. Yeah, we didn't expect this and we 63 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 5: were happy. Actually, before we got married, we talked about 64 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 5: are we okay with not having children? And we agreed. 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 5: We're like, yeah, we're in our forties, Yeah, that's totally fine. 66 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 5: We have two boys that take care of and all 67 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 5: of a sudden, there's miracle came out of nowhere. And 68 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 5: we always say the miracle that we prayed for to 69 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 5: have our spouse is healed. Didn't happen, But the miracle 70 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 5: that we got is the one that God wanted us 71 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 5: to be able to help heal our heart and bring 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 5: our family closer together. 73 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: I was going to ask, when did it change for 74 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: you guys, because I think women can so understand what 75 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: you're talking about, Kirsten, of that fear and if you've 76 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: been through grief, that fear of more loss. But when 77 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: did it change to realize like, Okay, wait, now we 78 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: have this new perspective on this was the miracle that 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: we were supposed. 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 4: To have when she was born. 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: I think I think it really took until she was 82 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: actually here for me to get to that space of Okay, 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: this really is our plan, this is our path. I 84 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: had embraced the pregnancy far earlier, but I was still 85 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: so scared. 86 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 4: The whole time. I was just I was so so scared. 87 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 3: But when she came, it was like, oh, of course, 88 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: this is exactly what you're supposed to have. 89 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 4: I remember seeing her for the first time and. 90 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: This just being completely blown away. I think that's probably 91 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 3: true for any mother that has a baby, right is 92 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: you know, they welcome a child into the world and 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 3: it's this person that you know, you were supposed to 94 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: know your whole life is finally here, and that's just 95 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 3: kind of what it was. 96 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think, Yers, you just hit on something that 97 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: I talk so. I lost my dad when I was 98 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: in college, and I do a lot of work with 99 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: them grief and kids who have gone through grief, And 100 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: you just hit on something that I talk about with 101 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 2: people so much, which is timing. And I wonder if 102 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: you guys can speak to that a little bit because 103 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: I've spoken to my own mom a lot about like 104 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: timing and when she started dating after losing my dad, 105 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: and I think I've had to do a lot of 106 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 2: growing over the years to realize actually how long it 107 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: was going to take her. You know, I think grief's 108 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: different for everybody, and I so wanted her to be 109 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: happy and wanted her to heal, but she had to 110 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: do things in her own time. So can you guys 111 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: speak a little bit on that, the timing of like 112 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: when you knew and how you knew and how it 113 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: helped you find this new happiness. 114 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think one thing that man Kirson talked a 115 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 5: lot about was you got to do your work to 116 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 5: be able to be in the position to be ready 117 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 5: to meet up with each other, because what we didn't 118 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 5: want to do is we didn't want to replace our spouse. 119 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 5: There's this empty hole here that we're wanting to replace, 120 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 5: But we didn't necessarily want to find another valerie or 121 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 5: find another code because we are growing through this grief 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 5: and we're accepting this new reality and it comes with 123 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 5: like leaning into the discomfort of the situation and becoming 124 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 5: this new person. So we had to do We had 125 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 5: to go to therapy, we had to do our own work. 126 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 5: We had to emotionally, spiritually, physically do our work. So 127 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 5: we are emotionally mature and emotionally intelligent that when another 128 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 5: person comes into our lives, we can have those deeper conversations. 129 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 5: We can talk about each other's spouse without jealousy. We 130 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 5: can talk about each other's spouse and celebrate their life 131 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 5: and feel like they are a part of our life forever. 132 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 5: They're not this spouse that is disappeared that will no 133 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 5: longer be a part of our life, but they are 134 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 5: in our lives forever. And it's because of the work 135 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 5: that we did in preparation to meet each other. So 136 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 5: when we met, it's like, oh, this makes sense. I mean, 137 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 5: our conversations are deeper. We don't talk about superficial things. 138 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 5: I mean, from the time I was texting her, I 139 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 5: just said, you know what, Kirsen, I don't like texting. 140 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 5: I'm going to call you. I called her and we 141 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 5: talked for three hours the first time we met. And 142 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 5: I think that really goes to the work and the 143 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: depth of how much work we did in preparation to 144 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 5: be able to be ready for each other. Anything you 145 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 5: add vibe I would know. 146 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 4: I think that's really pretty spot on. I think for me, 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: I had well. 148 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: Probably what's important to know is that both of our 149 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: late spouses really encouraged us to find love again. And 150 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: that's not always the case, or I truly believe that 151 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: every you know, if somebody loves you, they want you 152 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 3: to be happy, even if they're here, even if they're 153 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: not here, they really would do want happiness for you. 154 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: But both of our late spouses, in very special ways, 155 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: really encouraged us to go forward and to continue to 156 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: live a happy life and to make them proud and 157 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 3: to find love again and so and that's one of 158 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 3: the reasons why we did do our work, is because 159 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 3: we knew that that was something that we needed to 160 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 3: do for us and for them. For me, the timing 161 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: was a surprise because it actually happened relatively fast. We 162 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: were married a little over a year after my late 163 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: husband passed away, and that was not my plan. 164 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 4: You know, I really saw myself being single for several years. 165 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: But it's but you just you just put that so perfectly, 166 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: and I'm going to take that with me of not 167 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: replacing someone doing the work to be ready to find 168 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: a new, healthy, happy relationship, but not just looking to 169 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: fill a void. That's one of the most brilliant things 170 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: I've ever heard about grief. 171 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 5: Thank you. Yeah, We've had to live that, and it's 172 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 5: it's I mean, one thing that we value to is 173 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 5: we still have I mean, look behind us. There's Cody's 174 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 5: pitcher behind us. Yeah, and there's Valeries pictures in the 175 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 5: front room. So they still are a part of our 176 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 5: life and honored and we still celebrate their anniversaries and 177 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 5: death days and it's just they're they're an extension to 178 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 5: us and they're just a big part of our family. 179 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: There's so much I want to ask you now because 180 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: so many people listening. Grief is something because Lauren and 181 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: I talk about this a lot. Grief is something that 182 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: will unfortunately touch all of us at some point in 183 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: our lives, and it's something that nobody talks about. It's 184 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: so taboo in hush hush, and then when somebody loses somebody, 185 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: you don't know what to say. I don't want to 186 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: say the wrong thing. So I'll start with for people 187 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: that have lost somebody, your advice on having the strength 188 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: and the power and to move on that your life 189 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: is not done because their life is over. So I. 190 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: Will say that I took the perspective of I don't 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 3: want my life to have lost all of its meaning 192 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: because they're not here anymore. I want to show the 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: world who I am because they were a part of it. 194 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: I want to show the world world that when Cody died, 195 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: I had this real, legitimate fear that the world was 196 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: going to forget that he ever lived. 197 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 4: And so my goal was to make sure the world 198 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 4: knew that he lived. 199 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 3: And if that was going to be through me being 200 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 3: a better person, me fulfilling his last wishes, me continuing 201 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: to honor it him however I needed to do that, 202 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: I was going to do that, and I think that 203 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 3: taking that perspective is actually very healthy. 204 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 4: I think it's very healthy to find grief changes you. 205 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: It changes you in ways you'll never expect, but it 206 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: can change you in a way where you cultivate this beautiful, 207 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: lasting bond with the person that's passed away, and you 208 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 3: just you can just cultivate that and you grow that, 209 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: and you do it by doing these really special themes 210 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: to honor them and to make sure the world remembers them. 211 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 4: That's what I think. What do you think? 212 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the biggest saying is Valerie was such 213 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 5: a light to so many people, and even even at 214 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 5: our funeral, everybody's like I was Valerie's best friend. No, 215 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 5: I was Valerie's best friend, and for that I didn't 216 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 5: want that to be forgotten. So one of the things 217 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 5: that me and my boys have done is we shortly 218 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 5: after about nine months into my wife passing away, is 219 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 5: we created a lemonade stand outside my house and we 220 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 5: wanted to have baskets. We wanted to raise money and 221 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 5: create these hope kits to to deliver to families that 222 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 5: were struggling just like us. So we raised over fifteen 223 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 5: hundred dollars and we started creating these kits in my 224 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 5: wife's honor, and we call them be like bal baskets, 225 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 5: and we begin to deliver them to people and embrace 226 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 5: them and help them remember my wife's love as well 227 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 5: as help them feel important at that moment. And to 228 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 5: be able to do that is kind of emotional time 229 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 5: out from what we are experiencing. But it was so 230 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 5: healing to be able to say we care about you, 231 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 5: we feel you, we know how hard it is. And 232 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 5: to see my kids teaching their kids, it was just 233 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 5: beautiful to watch. And this has been so healing in 234 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 5: our journey that we continue on to give people these 235 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 5: kits and help people and continue to honor each other's 236 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 5: spouse because they are a part of us and they 237 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 5: help us strengthen our relationship by continuing to honor them. 238 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will just add to that by saying, 239 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 3: you know, we've talked a little bit about doing your work. 240 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: What I don't think people understand, especially in the early 241 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 3: days and months, or even the first year or so 242 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: of grief, is that it requires work. You do. 243 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 4: Surviving is easy. 244 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: You get out from bed, you maybe brush your teeth 245 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: that day, maybe maybe not shower, grab. 246 00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 4: Something, eat, go back to it. 247 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 3: Surviving this is easy, but to really grow through the grief, 248 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: you have to do your work. 249 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 4: You have to do your work, whatever that is. 250 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: I think you guys have just so hit the nail 251 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: on the head in so many ways because I often 252 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: see people and this is I'm not you know, I'm 253 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: not judging them. Everybody's doing their best because grief is 254 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: the hardest thing will go through. But you know, sometimes 255 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: people might like, like it's awesome to have a support 256 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: group for example, as you guys have done. But then 257 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: I've seen people maybe like they can you can get 258 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: a little stuck in like sharing but not doing the 259 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: work and moving forward, you know, like you have to 260 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: add the therapy into the mix and then okay, you're 261 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: working on yourself. But what you just talked about giving 262 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: back with those kits and helping others, I mean maybe selfishly, 263 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: but for me, helping others has pushed me to a 264 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: new level of healing with grief. And wow, you guys 265 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: are what an example. So thank you and a. 266 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: Great You had a good line there and I almost 267 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: thought you were going to say, you know, surviving is easy, 268 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: living and thriving is the difficult part. Anybody can just 269 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: survive and move along, but actually living again that is Yes, 270 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: it's very important. And when you know, one thing I've 271 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: learned from Lauren about grief is it's that river right 272 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: that's ever changing and ever flowing. And it sounds like 273 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: you have Oddly, you two are very equipped, but oftentimes 274 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: it would be one person who suffered loss the other 275 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: person hasn't. You two are very well equipped because you're 276 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: both suffering through this. But I also find it interesting 277 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: because you're suffering and how you're dealing with loss is 278 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: going to be different than the other person. So having 279 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: that grace and understanding with each other is still important 280 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: because it's always going to continue to change. 281 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 5: Yes, and it changes sometimes with the weather, the season changes, 282 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 5: and sometimes we don't understand why we're having a difficult 283 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 5: day or a bad day, but obviously we're where the 284 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 5: dates and the hard days that are coming up. But 285 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 5: when we're able to recognize when Kirsten is off or 286 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 5: having a bad day, we often check in with each 287 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 5: other and say, how are you doing, what are you 288 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 5: feeling today? What do you remember about this day? And 289 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 5: we say is there something I can do for you? 290 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 5: Can I listen to you? To be in tune to 291 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 5: be able to help her go through those moments, and 292 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 5: we're open enough to be able to communicate what each 293 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 5: other need in those moments. I think a good example 294 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 5: is we've been by each other's spouse's graves and Kirsen 295 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 5: will say, hey, I'm getting emotional talking about this. She'll say, 296 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 5: do you. 297 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 6: Need a moment with Valerie? And I said, yes, I 298 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 6: need a moment. So she'll go take the kids and 299 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 6: I'll sit there and have my private moment with Valerie. 300 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 6: And that is so special to me that she's able 301 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 6: to honor and have us have that special moment. And 302 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 6: we do it all the time for each other because 303 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 6: we know how that is in their life. 304 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: And I don't think you need to know grief to 305 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: offer those moments either. I think it really is just 306 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 3: seeking to understand what the other person is feeling and 307 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: then allowing them the space to feel it without jealousy, 308 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 3: or without resentment or you know, all of that those 309 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 3: other ugly things. 310 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 4: You don't need them, Yeah, you don't need them to 311 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 4: allow them the moments that they need to grieve. 312 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for getting emotional. I love emotions. 313 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: You made me cry, so that makes me happy. 314 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 5: Being emotional is how I've healed. So I've had to 315 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 5: be take off my mask of masculinity and say here 316 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 5: I am. Yeah, I'm here to heal. 317 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: How has that been. 318 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 5: It's been difficult, very difficult. Yeah. I mean something that 319 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 5: I teach people is about a healing team. And one 320 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 5: of the hardest moments of my life was nine months 321 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 5: after my wife. Life got too hard and I remember 322 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 5: taking a lunch break. I'm a clinical therapist, so I'm 323 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 5: actively helping people with difficult life changing events and it 324 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 5: just got too heavy, and I remember pulling out my phone, 325 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 5: texting people in my neighborhood family church group, and I said, 326 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 5: I'm not doing okay. Can you guys meet me at 327 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 5: my house. I just want to share you how hard 328 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 5: it will be. I sent it and then seven o'clock 329 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 5: came around that night, and all of a sudden, there 330 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 5: was a knock at the door and I opened it 331 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 5: up and I went, oh, no, I'm going to have 332 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 5: to talk. And the reality of it was I actually 333 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 5: called my own intervention and I'm sitting in my living room. 334 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 5: I'm looking around and I finally took off my mask 335 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 5: and I just opened up to my family, and right 336 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 5: there where I could just be real and honest, because 337 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: I think when I was wearing the mask, they couldn't 338 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 5: tell how hard I was suffering. They didn't really know 339 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 5: what's going on. But the moment I was vulnerable and 340 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 5: invited vulnerability, I gave them permission to come in and 341 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 5: say what they needed to do and start helping me 342 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 5: the ways I needed to. And that was pivotal in 343 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 5: the way that I changed my grief and then moving forward, 344 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 5: we created a team. Whenever I got struggling or whenever 345 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 5: I was having a hard day, I could text one 346 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 5: word to my team captain, and my team captain would 347 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 5: send a text out to people in my group, and 348 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 5: everybody had an assignment in that group that they could 349 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 5: take on, whether it be my parents would do my laundry, 350 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 5: someone would do the yard work, someone would be me food, 351 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 5: someone would take care of my kids, and the weight 352 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 5: would be taken off and I could breathe until I 353 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 5: can say I can do those again. I'm strong enough 354 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 5: to build back. And that was a process of building 355 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 5: resilience in my grief and doing my work that helped 356 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 5: me heal and put me in such a better place 357 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 5: to be a better father, be a better person, better therapist, 358 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 5: and a better spouse. Today. 359 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you 360 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: for sharing all that, because I think it's important for 361 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: people to know that, like therapists can't just therapy themselves. Actually, 362 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 2: you're the second therapist we've had on talk about grief 363 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 2: who also experienced loss themselves. And you know, there's part 364 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 2: as a non therapist. I think there's part of me 365 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: that goes but wait, can't you just recognize what's wrong 366 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: in yourself and fix yourself? 367 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 5: But right, yeah, exactly, can't look at the mirror and say, Jason, 368 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 5: tell me how you really be? 369 00:20:46,760 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, before I let you guys go, you mentioned you Jason, 370 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: you had kids. How has that been? How did you 371 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: guys work on that with loss and the kids, Kirsten 372 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: and both of you. And advice again for people that 373 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: you know are trying to move on. But that's another 374 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: kind of obstacle and hurdle you have to overcome. 375 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 4: Funny, because we were just talking about this last night. 376 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 3: I have a friend from high school whose husband just 377 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: passed away from cancer, and she reached out asking, you know, 378 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 3: I've got three kids, how do I not project my grief, 379 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 3: how do I keep parenting and grief? 380 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: So we were just talking about how do you bring 381 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: somebody new into a relationship when they're still missing their 382 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: dad or their mom exactly. 383 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 5: You know what. Boston, he had a really good relationship 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 5: with my wife and he's our oldest, he's seventeen right now. 385 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 5: But we've had to do a couple things. My seventeen 386 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 5: year old and my eleven year old, they process griefs 387 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 5: so differently. Where Boston goes internal, he doesn't say a word, 388 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 5: he's silent, and then my other Cooper, he's really behaviorally. 389 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 5: He's acting out and screaming. I something's going on, and 390 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 5: I don't know what's going on. So one thing that 391 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 5: I had to do is I had to figure out 392 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 5: I had to understand that, and then I had to 393 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 5: figure out a way to be able to help them 394 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 5: communicate and share without me being the therapist and asking 395 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 5: them questions. We had to do some creative ways of 396 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 5: processing their emotions where we did art. We sat down 397 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 5: at the kitchen table and I gave them a question 398 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 5: and they would create and draw something that helped them 399 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 5: express themselves. But so doing different things to help them 400 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 5: was so helpful. And then with Boston, I think we 401 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 5: need to be aware and give our kids some credit 402 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 5: because my son, when I started looking at dating, actually 403 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 5: he was saying, hey, hey, Dad, what are you going 404 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 5: to start dating again? And I said, I'm doing my work. 405 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 5: I'm getting there. And I remember him saying, Dad, we 406 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 5: I get emotional again. We need a mom, We need 407 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 5: a mom in our life. And I was just so 408 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 5: blown away that he was coaching his dad, telling him 409 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 5: what he needed. He needed a mother in the home, 410 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 5: he needed someone to be there and to take care 411 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 5: of some of those individual needs that I wasn't doing 412 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 5: a very good job. 413 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: And they know you're better when you're happy in your whole. 414 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 5: Chris, and I think that. 415 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 4: What I saw it, I think he saw it. 416 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that was a pivotal point of 417 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 5: my son's giving me a pep talk and saying, let's 418 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 5: do your work so you can be in a position 419 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 5: to help and bring someone into our lives. And it 420 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 5: was it was difficult and hard to be able to 421 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 5: have that, and we were super nervous about bringing someone 422 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 5: into the home and the relationship. But one thing that 423 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 5: we talked about the other day with someone was we 424 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 5: were getting ready to watch something on TV and my 425 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 5: boys are like, hey, Dad, she's your girlfriend, right, And 426 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 5: I go, yeah, goes, if she's your girlfriend, let you 427 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 5: invite her over and hang out with us. And I 428 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 5: was like, oh my gosh. They are more ready than 429 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 5: we give them credit. So being able to listen to 430 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 5: them and what they're telling us is so vital in 431 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 5: the process because I feel like kids are sometimes casualties 432 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 5: in the whole situation where they get left out. We're 433 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 5: not authentic, we're not real about how what's going on 434 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 5: even with our emotions. That the more that we have 435 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 5: those conversations or we create more of those conversations to 436 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 5: have those open conversations and talk about real things that 437 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 5: can be so beautiful, and your kids could probably tell 438 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 5: you something that will help unlock your grief. So we 439 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 5: need to give them more credit more often. 440 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: And when I came into the family, I don't require 441 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: that they call me mom, and I try very very 442 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: hard to make sure that they know that I'm not 443 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 3: here to replace their mom. 444 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 4: In fact, I refer to Valerie a lot as my 445 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: partner and parenting. 446 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 3: Her pictures are up and I'm just I'm the mom 447 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: on earth she's the mom in heaven. But we do 448 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 3: work together and in Boston, the seventeen year old, he 449 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 3: doesn't call me mom, but the eleven year old does. 450 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 3: And we don't pressure them in any way, just allow 451 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 3: them to do what they feel is most comfortable to them. 452 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 2: Well, I can't give you guys enough credit. I've, like 453 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 2: I said, I've done a lot of work with people 454 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: going through grief, and I'm blown away by your strength, 455 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 2: your awareness, much inte, your emotional intelligence and all this. 456 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 2: It's just incredible. So thank you. When we heard your 457 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 2: story and read about it and people we really wanted 458 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: to have you all on and I've taken away so 459 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 2: much from this podcast, So thank you both, so so much. 460 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 5: Oh, We're honored to be here talking to you guys. 461 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: I'm glad you talked to us about Valerie and Cody today. 462 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 2: That was awesome. Thank you. 463 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 4: Which, by the way, they were both huge fans of 464 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 4: the batch. 465 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. 466 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 2: Sometimes the men are bigger fans than the women. 467 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 4: I've found one was the he was the bigger fan. 468 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: It helps you, he helps you take off that emotional mask. 469 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: It kind of got Yeah, all our love and continued 470 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: success and continue growing together. As a beautiful couple. Thank 471 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: you guys, thank you so much. 472 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you again to Jason and Kirsten. You know, 473 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 2: one thing that really is sticking with me too is 474 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: that support group from his friends that he had. Like, 475 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 2: I think so many people struggle with how to help, 476 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 2: what to do, what to say, And I might be 477 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 2: getting this wrong, but the research shows that after just 478 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. I don't want to say that 479 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 2: it's either three weeks or three months, but just a 480 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: matter of weeks, people like the support for someone who's 481 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: grieving kind of fades. You know, in the beginning, people 482 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 2: send flowers and send food, and then they don't know 483 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: what to do. 484 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: To get back to your own life and your stuff. 485 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 486 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: So I think that's support group with the specific tasks 487 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: and he can just send a group text if he 488 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: needs help. 489 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: I like having a code word to a captain and 490 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: then it disseminates. 491 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 2: It was like a phone tree. 492 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're not calling and asking and begging everybody 493 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: to help, it's like they just do. 494 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: That was such a great idea. So if you know 495 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: someone who's going through loss, I think setting that up 496 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 2: is incredible. So Jason and Kirsten continue to share pointers 497 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: and info on their journey on their Instagram Light after 498 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: Grief like finding the light in the dark. The handle 499 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: is at Light after Grief and thank you so much 500 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: again to them and we will talk to you guys 501 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 2: next time because we have. 502 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: A lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow 503 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and 504 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: make sure to write us a review and leave us 505 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: five stars. I'll talk to you next time.