1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: audio for full exposure listen with headphones. So many questions occurred. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: Do they believe in a supreme being? What's their intelligence level? 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: What's their average lifespan? It's approximately three fifty four hundred 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: earth years. It's my understanding that aliens have an IQ 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: of over two hundred. They have a revision, but it's 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: a universal revision. They believe in the universe as a 8 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: supreme being. The aliens enjoyed music, all types of music, 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: especially ancient Tibetan style music. We ask about their diet 10 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: and you eat vegetables. They like vegetables, and their favorite 11 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: dish or snack is ice cream, especially strawberry. On October four, 12 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Mike Ferrell, best known as Matches B. J. Huneycutt, hosted 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: a very strange television show called UFO Cover Up Live. 14 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: The show purported to be a revelatory look into what 15 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: the US government and the Soviet Union, among others, knew 16 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: about UFOs. It took the form of a series of 17 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: apparently rehearsed sit down interviews between Ferrell and various UFO investigators, 18 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: including Bill Moore and a couple of supposed government insiders 19 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: who were hidden in shadows and spoke with distorted voices. 20 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: It was the culmination of a year's long effort by 21 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: the government to introduce new narratives into the UFO community. 22 00:01:53,120 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm Toby Ball and this is Strange Arrivals. Episode eleven, 23 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: The Rumor Equation. In the late nineteen seventies and eighties, 24 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: the Air Force Office of Special Investigations employed Richard Doughty 25 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: to spread disinformation within the UFO community. The result was 26 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: not only to cause confusion at the time, but also 27 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: to create new aspects and strains in the developing UFO folklore. 28 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: One of the striking features of the misinformation was just 29 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: how outlandish the stories were. In the last episode, we 30 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: heard about Paul Benowits being fed information that led him 31 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: to believe that hostile aliens were based around and under 32 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: Archiletta Mesa and that they posed a threat to humanity. 33 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: During this episode, we'll learn about another bold misinformation campaign, 34 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: and it raises the question why was the government trying 35 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: to convince people of such outrageous stories. Wouldn't it be 36 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: better to spend something a little more restrained. Utah State 37 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: Folklore Professor Lynn McNeil. There's actually a really cool, old 38 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: old study that was done by some psychologists looking at 39 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: rumor and how rumor works in folk cours know that 40 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: rumor and legend are really similar, and they came up 41 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: with what they called the rumor equation. And no, this 42 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: is not deeply scientific, but it's pretty revealing when we 43 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: think about it. What they said was that the reach 44 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: of any rumor, the power of a rumor, the spread 45 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: of it, is equal to the topics importance multiplied by 46 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: its ambiguity. If we have a topic to us that's 47 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: incredibly important, but we have all the info, but we're 48 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: going to talk about it. There's gonna be new stories 49 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: about it, but we're kind of gonna rest easy. We're 50 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: gonna be like, Okay, really important, Thank goodness, we know 51 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: every thing. If we have a topic that's incredibly ambiguous 52 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: but we don't really care, then we're sort of like, whatever, 53 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: I don't need to know, it doesn't matter to me. 54 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: The minute you start that multiplying, exponential growth of something 55 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: that is both unbelievably important. So of course we can 56 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: use this as a barometer for our culture. Right what 57 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: has always been important to us, our military security, the 58 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: lives and safety of our children, our personal health, anti violence, 59 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: anti crime, things like that, plus or multiplied by this 60 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: question of ambiguity. I don't have the answers. I don't 61 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: know the answers. It's possible someone is trying to keep 62 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: the answers from me. You put those things together, and 63 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: you are just asking for a wildfire spread of rumor 64 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: of legend of conspiracy theory. So, in fact, a story 65 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: with outsized implications would be more effective than a more 66 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: restrained one that on its face might seem more plausible. 67 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: And that's important to keep in mind as we look 68 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: at the effort by Richard Doughty and others to feed 69 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: information into the world of UFO believers through, in particular, 70 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: a man named Bill Moore. You may remember Bill Moore 71 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: from the last couple of episodes. He was one of 72 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: the researchers for and authors of the Roswell Incident, which 73 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: brought the Roswell crash story back to the public after 74 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: years of being ignored. He was also the person that 75 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: Doughty used to pass a memo to Paul Benewitz that 76 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: contained allusions to Project Aquarius and m J twelve, which 77 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: we will hear more about in this episode, but his 78 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: relationship with Doughty predates the Benewit's affair. Here's Rich you're Doughty. Well, 79 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: Bill Moore came to my attention and something that was 80 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: entirely different than a UFO matter. Bill wasn't providing any 81 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: secret or classified information. He had a contact with a 82 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: person inside the Soviet Union who worked for the Russian 83 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: Academy of Science, and the government was interested in that 84 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: particular scientists for a number of different reasons. So the 85 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: idea was to make a contact through Bill to try 86 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: to get this uh scientists as a cooperating person for 87 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: the United States government, and it actually worked out well 88 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: for the government. During this time, according to Doughty, Moore 89 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: was also telling him information about two civilian UFO research organizations, 90 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: a PRO and mouf On, and this information was apparently 91 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: of some interest to the government. But then in the 92 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: meantime Bill wrote the book about Roswell, where with Blitz. 93 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: The book contained about six of what Bill had gathered. 94 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: There's a large portion of his research that was never published. Well, 95 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: we were interested in what he didn't publish, and Bill 96 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: was open to us, and he provided that information to 97 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: us and a lot of that information pertained to secretive 98 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: things that Bill had learned during his time researching it. 99 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: So here things get a little tricky because the account 100 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: we have of how More got involved in the business 101 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: of passing what he believed to be secret government information 102 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: back to the UFO community doesn't quite square with what 103 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: we just heard from Doughty. Author Greg Bishop is a 104 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: friend of Moore's. He wrote the book Project Beta about 105 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: Doughty's operations involving Bennewitz and More. Here he talks about 106 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: how More came to be recruited into this effort. He 107 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: got involved because he wrote the Roswell Incident. Him and 108 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: Charles Burretts actually did most of the research, and Charles 109 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: Burletts form a triangle guy, did most of the writing. 110 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: And anyway, so More was doing interviews about the book. 111 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: He was on a book tour and somebody called him 112 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: at one of the radio stations and said, you're the 113 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: only person that seems to know what they're talking about. 114 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: We'd like to meet with you. And this this is 115 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: the second time it happened. The first time he said, 116 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: I can't meet with anybody. I'm going to my next 117 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: book stop. And this time he was an Albuquerque. He 118 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: said he did have a day so he met this 119 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: person turned out to be Falcon, as he's known in 120 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: the book. Um. That was a name that More and 121 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: his partner gave to these people. More in his partner, 122 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: a man named Jamie Shanderay, gave code names based on 123 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: birds to the different people from the government that they 124 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: dealt with. This will become a little complicated later when 125 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: more than one person will be known as Falcon. But 126 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,359 Speaker 1: at this point, the guy named Falcon is not Richard Dody. 127 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: We don't, in fact know for sure who it was. 128 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: They just called at the aviary and gave all the 129 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: people they had contacts with bird names so that they 130 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: could talk about them on the phone to People wouldn't 131 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: know who they were talking about if they were listening 132 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: in on the phone. Here's Bill Moore on the show 133 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: UFO Cover Up Live talking about his recruitment. I got 134 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: a phone call after appearing on a radio show from 135 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: a man who said, you're the only person we've heard 136 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: talk about this subject who seems to know what he's 137 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: talking about. He convinced me that he was a government 138 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: intelligence agent and wanted to begin disseminating some information about 139 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: UFOs to the public and the man Bill is referring 140 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: to his Falcon whom we've seen in shadow to protect 141 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: his identity. That's right. I didn't think that I could 142 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: handle it all alone. The volume of material I was 143 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: getting from Falcon was rather mind boggling. So I got 144 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: together with Jamie. Jamie is fellow UFO researcher Jamie Shandray. 145 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: This government intelligence agent offered More an arrangement. Other UFO 146 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: researchers were interested in things around military basis. So what 147 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: they told More was, if you could a tab on 148 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: what people are talking about and what information is going 149 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: through the uf OL community, so we know who knows what, 150 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: then we will give you information basically what everybody says. 151 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: It's disclosure. They said they'd give him official government documents 152 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: on UFOs, so he said, yeah, sure, I'll do it. 153 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: It's not entirely clear who first met with More, but 154 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: Richard Doughty became his handler. More was valuable because he 155 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: was a respected UFO investigator who had worked with the 156 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: two main civilian UFO groups, a Pro and Moufon. Bill 157 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: had a both feet right in in with these groups. 158 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: He was trusted and so Bill agreed to provide us 159 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: information that the UFO groups were gathering. And I would 160 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: say most of the information that was provided to us 161 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: with mundane stuff that we weren't really interested in. But 162 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: there was some information that was being gathered by the 163 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: new Found groups, a new Found or appro group that 164 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: was of interest to the government, and it pertained to sightings. 165 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: People who were reported sightings, sightings that were never publicized, 166 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: people who would report a sighting or a close encounter 167 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: that occurred at a certain place, and we were interested 168 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: in those cases because of connections with research, whether it 169 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: was maybe one of our craft's highly classified craft that 170 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: was being seen at certain locations, or just keeping track 171 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: of what the et s are doing. This is an 172 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: interesting comment from Dodi. The first part seems reasonable that 173 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: the government was trying to determine whether UFO researchers were 174 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: observing secret military projects, and then at the end he 175 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: suggests that they were also trying to keep tabs on 176 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: what aliens were up to. At the risk of stating 177 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: the obvious, the two reasons for government is given here 178 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: range wildly in terms of plausibility, and this is where 179 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: again I'll remind everyone that Richard Doughty is a former 180 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: professional counterintelligence agent. He spread misinformation for a living, and 181 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: I feel pretty sure he did during our conversations. I 182 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: don't think it makes sense to put much stock in 183 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: anything he says. But what he says is interesting, even 184 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: if it's not literally true. George Mason University Professor Deborah L. 185 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: Tanzi Shutika, even if a story, even if you're conmpletely 186 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: convinced that someone is lying to you, when someone tells 187 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: you a story, I think that the important thing to 188 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: consider is, you know, like, why are they telling this 189 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: particular story? What does this communicate about them? Their community, um, 190 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: their belief system, et cetera. Our job is to analyze, 191 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: like their ability as a storyteller. You know, are they 192 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: a good story toller? Are they engaging? You know, are 193 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: they able to hold their audience? Folkloreists are here to 194 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: judge the quality, context, and content of a story, more 195 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: and more interested in the event itself as an event 196 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: and what it communicates about the people and their community. 197 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: When you're part of a community, you're going to have 198 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: developed a repertoire of stories that are part of that 199 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: communal folklore. Right. It's like almost like when Christians have 200 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: conversion experiences. All those stories kind of have similar elements 201 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: that have been refined by the experience of being in 202 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: the community. So what's interesting to think about as we 203 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: listen to Richard Doughty is this we know that he 204 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: was spreading stories to make UFO researchers believe that they 205 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: were on the trail of actual aliens rather than secret 206 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: defense projects. Why tell the particular stories that he did. 207 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: What does that tell us about the beliefs of the 208 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: UFO community and what they were willing to accept into 209 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: the developing UFO folklore. With add in mind, here's Richard 210 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Doughty again. The government knew, at least at the briefing 211 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: I was given in Night, that Earth has been visited. 212 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, we had two crafts, we had alien bodies. 213 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: We had one alien that was alive telling us different things, 214 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: briefing us about his society, his planet. So we knew. 215 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: The government knew that Earth has been had been visited. 216 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: Now since seventy eight, I had received knowledge of other 217 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: e t races that had been visiting Earth that didn't 218 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: come until later. So that wasn't a surprise to the 219 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: government in the military and intelligence community, because we knew it. 220 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: That information just never got out to the public, I 221 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: mean officially. The reason is that a lot of the 222 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: information that was coming through the UFO community pertained to 223 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: classified projects that we were working on. Some might have 224 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: been reverse engineering of an alien craft, or some might 225 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: be our own craft that we developed. Doty says he 226 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: wasn't briefed on the technological origins of these projects. He 227 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: also says he witnessed some strange things. I saw some 228 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: things fly at Area fifty ones that were probably not 229 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: from this Earth, but that wasn't the information that they 230 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: wanted to get back from more. But what Bill was 231 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: reporting to us were mostly incidents involving our crafts, highly 232 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: classified crafts such as the F one seventeen, the Aurora, 233 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: some highly classified drones that we had back then, and 234 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: people were seeing these things and reporting of and as UFOs, 235 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: which in fact they were post of the Skeptoid podcast 236 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: Brian Dunning. Back in the days of the Cold War, 237 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: the U S was developing things like the U two, 238 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: the S R seventy one, and then the most significantly, 239 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: the F one seventeen, a stealth fighter, and the Air 240 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: Force had very legitimate security concerns about not letting the 241 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Soviets find out about these programs. And yet on the 242 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: mountaintops around every Air Force base in the US were 243 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: these groups of UFO researchers with their telescopes trained at 244 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: the base who believed, for whatever reason, that the UFOs 245 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: hiding aliens or or whatever it was, here's these UFO 246 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: researchers watching the Air Force. The Air Force had, I 247 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: believe a legitimate concern that these UFO researchers might get 248 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: a real photo of an F one seventen, which then might, 249 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: by being published wherever, fall into the hands of the 250 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. And what we had to do was we 251 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: had to convince through Bill that what they were seeing 252 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: was hey UFOs and not some highly classified government craft. 253 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: You might call that disinformation. We call it counterintelligence, and 254 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: that's part of it what Bill was doing. They were 255 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: giving information about the government's dealings with alien races in 256 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: exchange for information about the movements of these UFO groups 257 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: and whether there might be any Soviet agents infiltrating them, 258 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: because realistically, it does make sense that Soviet agents would 259 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: infiltrate UFO groups if they were doing things like getting 260 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: on mountaintops and actually getting footage of F one S 261 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: stealth fighters right that that actually makes sense. It was very, 262 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: very very easy. I gotta remember every member or most 263 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: members of the UFO community, where if you wanted to 264 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: try to convince them of something, you did just had 265 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: to plant an idea to with him because they were 266 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: already believers. It wasn't very difficult to do that. And 267 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: that was a type of information that we wanted the 268 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: UFO group to spread within to keep away from the 269 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: fact that that craft was really a highly classified US 270 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: government craft and it's it's a form of counterintelligence. I mean, 271 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't difficult to do. I mean we didn't have 272 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: to go through any elaborate means to do it. We 273 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: had just had to tell somebody that was a UFO 274 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: and they would believe it. In addition to the exchange 275 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: of information and disinformation, a second strange effort was undertaken 276 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: that created a narrative of incredible scope, an effort that 277 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: would bring more and Shanda Ray deeper into the government's 278 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: campaign against the UFO community after the break. Remember in 279 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: the last episode, Bill Moore passed Paul Benowit's a doctored 280 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: memo that included references to Project Aquarius and a group 281 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: called m J twelve. That was the first known mention 282 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: of these two elements of what would become a much 283 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: larger narrative. The second part came with the delivery of 284 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: a package to Jamie Schanderrey Greg Bishop. He was set 285 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: this package with the Eisenhower briefing document in which everybody 286 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: knows about now Brian Dunning. The background on that is 287 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: the m J twelve, Majestic twelve the full name. It's 288 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: a document, it's about three page is long. What it 289 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: purports to be is a letter. It's a memo written 290 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: by the Director of the CIA in nineteen fifty two 291 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: and addressed to President Eisenhower, and what it's doing is 292 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: advising him of the existence of this group called Majestic twelve, 293 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: which is twelve scientists and military officials who were assembled 294 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: in ninety seven after the Roswell landing crash from the 295 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: TV special UFO cover Up Live. This is the man 296 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: code named Falcon. He is presenting this information about m 297 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: J twelve as facts that he knows. As an intelligence operative. 298 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: M J twelve was a group of people with the government. 299 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: MJ TWOB was created by President Truman, then their job 300 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: was to investigate the track of information pretending to UFOs. 301 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: Part of their job was scientific a maanscements, but the 302 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: primary purpose was to keep track of the information coming 303 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: in on the UFOs and to analyze the information, both 304 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: scientifically and in a way that would advance our technology. 305 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: There are government officials and elected officials that are thematically 306 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: brief in the existence of the m J twelve activities. 307 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: These officials include the President, the Vice President, as elected officials, 308 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: the Director of Central Intelligence, and the director of their 309 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: national security agency. The m j Twealth Policy is headquartered 310 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: the Naval Observatory in Washington, d C. The United States 311 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: Navy has the primary operational responsibilities of field activities relating 312 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: to the end AH world policies. All information gathering in 313 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: the field, not necessarily by Navy personnel, is transmitted to 314 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: the Navy for analysis. Other known government agencies feed information 315 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: to m J twelve through a top secret cover project 316 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: known to US his Project Aquarius. That was Bill Moore 317 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: on the same program. Chandore wasn't the only person to 318 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: receive those documents more and at least one other researcher 319 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: did as well, but Shandera was the first to publicize them. 320 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: That original memo that came out and was sent out 321 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: both to a. Bill Moore and Jamie Schanderrey and Toothy 322 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: Good in Britain. In fact, they were forced to release 323 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: it because they said, if you sit on this any longer, 324 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: Tim Good is going to release it and you won't 325 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: get any credit. So I think at the national UOFO 326 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: conference in Burbank here in El l a and the 327 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: early eighties, they introduced the MJ twelve documents and said 328 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: they didn't know if they're real or not, but the 329 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: thought that probably they were. So somebody was sending this 330 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: to UFO authors, not to scientists, not to reporters, not 331 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: to anyone with any kind of mainstream credibility, but to 332 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: UFO authors. They were hoping that someone would publish this 333 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: in the UFO literature. So once it appeared with Jamie Schandra, 334 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: Jamie Schandra developed the film, looked at the pages, shared 335 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: it with some of his other UFO buddies, and it 336 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of entered the pop culture at that point. So 337 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: if we can accept that that is the correct history 338 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: of what happened, in my opinion, based on the research 339 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: that I've done, I do accept that that's the correct 340 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: history of where it happened. It did show up at 341 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: multiple people's doorstep with no known origin. Nobody knows who 342 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: sent it, so who wrote it? Who was trying to 343 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: get information out to UFO authors? Well, if some real information, 344 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: they're the last people in the world you would have 345 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: sent it to, Right, you would have sent it to 346 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: someone with a little bit more credibility. You've given it 347 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: to The New York Times. I think the default assumption 348 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: is that it's a forgery, reasonably obviously, the question is 349 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: who forged it. As the years went on, at this 350 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: point More it's not pretty much convinced. He is convinced 351 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: that it was totally posed, but at the time more 352 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: shander Ray and others had not reached that conclusion. They 353 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: researched the original documents in great detail and discovered others, 354 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: generally with the help of cryptic clues pointing them in 355 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: the direction of documents that seemed likely to have been 356 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 1: planted Jamie Chander Ray and Bill Moore. And then they 357 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: were follow up postcards ethiopenial picture postcards mailed from New 358 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: Zealand with puzzles and riddles. Right, the puzzles were clues 359 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: for example for a stylish loop shop simp Land. This 360 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: at us to the National Repository in Suitland, Maryland, where 361 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: we discovered the existence of top secret documents and filed 362 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: the freedom of information request, which led us further to 363 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: the Coupler Twining document. Legendary UFO researcher Stanton Friedman had 364 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: worked with Bill Moore on the investigation into the Roswell crash, 365 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: and he again worked with more on trying to verify 366 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: the legitimacy of the m J twelve documents. Here he 367 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: is talking about this treasure hunt in the government files. 368 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: You'll notice a slight difference in where these files were 369 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: actually found. My colleague has got some postcards, crazy postcards 370 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: talking about going to Washington. They've gotten a postcard and 371 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: said from box one something like that, I place in 372 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: New Zealand, crazy place more in Chanderay went to Washington, 373 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: d C. To see what they could find. But when 374 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: they got there, I had been told that they were 375 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: declassifying the Air Force Headquarters files. They went to those 376 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: and they found this document between pages and folded up 377 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: as if it had been in somebody's pocket. And it 378 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: was in box one, which is quite unexpected. Anyway. It's 379 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: just a brief note, but it says NSC National Security 380 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: Council m J twelve Special Studies Project, and the name 381 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: on it is Robert Cutler. He was Ike's Special Assistant 382 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: to the President for National security. And he's just telling 383 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: General Twining that a meeting will take place during an 384 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: a race scheduled meeting instead of after it as originally 385 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: instructed to it. This is the Cutler Twining document that 386 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: More mentioned earlier. It is generally considered to be another forgery. 387 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: More eventually wrote a book called the m J twelve Documents. 388 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: It's about a hundred pages long. It's just an analysis 389 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: of all the documents that he got that he could 390 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: talk about or thought that we're promising, and then a 391 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: great as to whether he thought they were imminist partners, 392 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,239 Speaker 1: that they were real or not, and half for more 393 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: of them they said, you know, probably not real or 394 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: not not enough information to tell. But at this point 395 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: he says, no, I don't think there's anything real to 396 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: it at all. It's the actual people in it, because 397 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: those people, of course did exists, and the Majestic twelve 398 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: people were supposedly in contact with the aliens and knew 399 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: all about them and everything. And so once this document 400 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: came out, which didn't happen until that has sort of 401 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: become a foundational document for many of the in the 402 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: UFO community who believed that this serves as a flute 403 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: proof that the government not only knows about alien contact 404 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: but maintains active diplomatic relations which them. So that's that's 405 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: the story of m J twelve, But it's still with us, 406 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: and people still believe that that's a real group that 407 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: has some kind of per view over UFO information. And 408 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, it's just some group that 409 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 1: somebody in the government somewhere decided that they want UFO 410 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: researchers to think had some activity with the subject. I'm 411 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: concerned that's not true. It's just a red herring. An 412 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: outcome of the MJ twelve documents initiative was UFO Cover 413 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: Up Live, which we've heard from in this episode. Among 414 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: other things, the show covered m J twelve talked to 415 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: Soviet scientists, and featured two alleged government insiders who are 416 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: filmed in shadow and had their voices altered. On this 417 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: bizarre program, the advanced UFO and alien storylines to a 418 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: television audience. This excerpt starts with host Mike Farrell asking 419 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: the man known as Falcon about extraterrestrials. We asked, Falcon, 420 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: where do you found out so much about extraterrestrial biological 421 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: entities or e v s. This book, or all the 422 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: Bible within the m G Wall community contains historically everything 423 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: that occurred from the Truman era helped through the Three 424 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: Aliens being Yes the City, United States government, technological data 425 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: gathered from the aliens, medical history gathered from the aliens, 426 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: and we're found in the desert, autopsy information gathered from 427 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: dead aliens found in the deserts, and information obtained from 428 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: the extra terrestrials regarding their social structure and their information 429 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: pertaining to universe? Was there an additional source of information? Presently, 430 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: as of the United eighty eight, there is one extra 431 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: terrestrial being. He's a guest of the United States Government 432 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: and he's remained hidden from public view. The Yellow Book 433 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: is a book that was exclusively written by the Second Alien. 434 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: The book relates to the Aliens, planet, solar system sons, 435 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: the culture and society make up on the planet, the 436 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: social structure of aliens and aliens, life among Brothleys, now 437 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: Condor tells us about a deal our government made with 438 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: the aliens from what he understands, and the green sign 439 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: between our our US government and the extra astrials, and 440 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: there's such an agreement says that we won't disclow your 441 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: existence if you do not, and we allow you to 442 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: operate from the designated baser. United States gets in the 443 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: state of the Veta in an area called think back 444 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,239 Speaker 1: to last episode and Paul Bennowitz's Project Beta report that 445 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: includes his warnings about the dangers of signing a treaty 446 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: with the aliens. Two people in the UFO community familiar 447 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: with that storyline this exchange both supports and expands on it. Anyway. 448 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,239 Speaker 1: The man in the shadows during this show, who has 449 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: identified as Falcon, is thought by many people to be 450 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: Richard Doughty. He's even listened as such on the IMDb website. Doughty, however, 451 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: disputes this number one. I wasn't that wasn't me. I 452 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: wasn't on that program. No, but I had some meetings 453 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: with the producers of that program, and they wanted me 454 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: to come on in uniform. They wanted me to come 455 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: on and disguise. They wanted me I refused to, but 456 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: I was busy. I was someplace entirely different at that 457 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: time period, but people claimed it was me. He does 458 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: think though, that people within the government were involved and 459 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: that they saw this as a way to potentially get 460 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: information to the public. I think the producer wanted and 461 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: I think maybe somebody within the government wanted disclosure, some 462 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: sort of a disclosure, and that's why they were helpful 463 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: in this program UFOL Alive. Moore's involvement with the government's 464 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: efforts to spread disinformation in the UFO community ended in 465 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: spectacular fashion at a high profile UFO conference in greg 466 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: Bishop was a friend of Moore's at this point and 467 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: attended the conference. I'd only known him a couple of 468 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: years up to that point, but he said, you know, 469 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: you're going to the moulf On conference. I said, yeah, 470 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: I guess I can. And I didn't even have enough 471 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: money to fly there. I had to take a bus 472 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: from l A to Las Vegas and staying at the 473 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: cheapest hotel I could find, and then I would just 474 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, I would walk or I don't know, take 475 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: a cab or something over to the hotel. With here 476 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: having a convention anyway, I wanted to go because he said, 477 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna knock everybody sucks off, he said, and I said, 478 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: was what I don't want to tell you. He wouldn't 479 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: tell me. He didn't tell anybody. I don't think. He 480 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: called me and told me that he was going to 481 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: make this speech. I was there. He toned it down, 482 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: believe it or not, of what his original idea was. 483 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: I told him, you gotta be careful what you say, Bill, 484 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: So he toned it down somewhat, but it was an 485 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: earth shaking speech within the UFO community that he had 486 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: been working for the government for years. He was like 487 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: the featured speaker on Saturday Night, which is basically, you know, 488 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: the one that everybody wants to see, the last speaker 489 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 1: on Saturday Night. There was no place to sit. When 490 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: I got there was like standing room only in there. 491 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, probably thousand people. Big room, really big room. 492 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: Bill Moore got up to speaking. He started describing what 493 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: happened with Benewitz while he was doing what he was doing. 494 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: His speech, which had originally been built as addressing revelations 495 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: from his MJ twelve investigations, instead was a nearly ninety 496 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: minute account of his arrangement with the government, his work 497 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: with Doughty, and what this all meant for the UFO community. 498 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: This is an exerpt from that speech in which he 499 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: publicly talks about his work with the government to give 500 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: disinformation to Paul Benowitz. It's read by an actor. As 501 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: I've already stated, I was personally aware of the intelligence 502 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: community's concerted efforts to systematically confused, use, discourage, and discredit 503 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: Paul by providing him with a large body of disinformation 504 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: on the subject of UFOs, the malevolent aliens who allegedly 505 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: pilot them, the technology, the employee, and the underground basis 506 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: they supposedly possess and occupy. The entire story of a 507 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: secret treaty between the US government and the aliens, of 508 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: exchange of technology between US and the aliens, of battles 509 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 1: between aliens and American armed forces, and of aliens allegedly 510 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: having implanted hundreds of thousands, even millions of human beings 511 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,959 Speaker 1: for the purpose of taking over the world and using 512 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: us as cattle or slaves. Came about as a result 513 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: of this process. I know because I was in a 514 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: position to observe much of this process as it unfolded 515 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: and I was providing regular reports on its effectiveness to 516 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: some of the very people who were doing it to Paul. 517 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: And I can tell you that it was effective because 518 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: I watched Paul become systematically more paranoid and more emotionally 519 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: unstable as he tried to assimilate what was happening to him. 520 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: He had to stop probably five six, eight times, so 521 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 1: people had calmed down and stopped yelling at it, and 522 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: I kind of just stood there watching the whole thing. 523 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god. I didn't know people were so passionate 524 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: about this. I had just got back into the subject 525 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: after not really being into it since I was a teenager. 526 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: And here I am in my early twenties, very early twenties, 527 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: standing there watching the circus and watching people getting so 528 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: upset that wow, um this this is amazing. For the 529 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: question and answer, he he provided his own questions and answers. 530 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: He didn't actually take questions from the audience because he 531 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 1: realized it would just been chaos. Um it was anyway, 532 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 1: don he was done, he ran out the back door, 533 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: the door next to the stage. He didn't like stay 534 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: around to ask a question, to answer any questions because 535 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: he knew it had just been he would have been 536 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: mobbed and maybe, uh, I don't know, maybe worse. It 537 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: was just that revelation of that he had been working 538 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: with the government, because according to them, was the enemy, 539 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: the enemy of view awful researchers, the government and its 540 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: cover ups and the fact that he had cooperated with 541 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: them just drove them nuts. And I think that well, 542 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: that did him. Uh, it took him away from any 543 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: credibility within the Ufol community. He stayed within. He did 544 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things on his own for a number 545 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: of years, publishing what he thought was the truth. Um. 546 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: But it was a a gut wrenching speech for a 547 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of people within the Ufo community. Two people in 548 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: the Ufo community. More speech not only revealed that he 549 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: had worked with the government to undermine the work of investigators, 550 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: it also let them know that the stories that they 551 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: believed described the reality of the Ufo situation were in 552 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: fact of fiction, created by the government and funneled through More. 553 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: To them, the process they had been a part of 554 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: was not government disclosure but instead folklore creation. In the end, 555 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: the campaign by the government through the Air Force Office 556 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: of Special Investigations against the Ufo community can best be 557 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: seen as a small part of a much larger counterintelligence 558 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: effort against our national rivals during the Cold War. People 559 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: don't realize that that was part of a huge operation 560 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: having to do with trying to find out who from Russia, China, 561 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: anybody else was was watching our military projects, who was 562 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: watching how they were getting the information they were getting. 563 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: They're trying to actually just map all these networks of 564 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: spies and espionage people, just trying to find out you know. 565 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: One of the avenues they used was talking to UFO researchers. 566 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm a UFO researcher from Russia. Did you tell me 567 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: what what you're working on? And it could be something 568 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: around a military base, So anyway there, that's what they 569 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: were worried about. They didn't care about UFOs. What they 570 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: cared about in this operation was who knows what and 571 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: how is that information getting out? And in some cases 572 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: they wanted to map these uh networks because they wanted 573 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: to start throwing crap in the in the water, just 574 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: start throwing junk out their disinformation to Russians and Chinese 575 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: and whoever else was looking at our stuff because they 576 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: could it's like, Okay, this person talks to this person, 577 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: this person. This is the direct direct line into you know, 578 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: the KGB. And so if we tell them something and 579 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: it has some plausibility to it, it will get to 580 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: the KGB or the Kremlin. They'll be acting on on 581 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: wrong information and it will miss less lead and missdirect them. 582 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: There was a we call an annex, a part of 583 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: a major operation or a war plan or something that 584 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: was developed in Washington and the Pentagon, way above my 585 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: pay grade. And I wasn't the only one doing this. 586 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: There were a d twenty two other agents in the 587 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: United States that we're working on the same thing I 588 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: was doing. So it was just me, but it was 589 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: following a plan. We were following a plan, and when 590 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: these matters popped up, we would report it up the 591 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: chain and chain of command. Messages would come down to 592 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: us telling us to go ahead and nact, do follow 593 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: this particular procedure and we and we did that. So 594 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't a single isolated incident or plan. This was 595 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 1: happening all over the United States and probably other foreign 596 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: countries too. Bill Moore told Greg Bishop about how he 597 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: saw his role in this faster effort, which involves William Casey, 598 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: the CIA director at the time, and Falcon the one 599 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: who recruited him, not the one from the television show. 600 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: What Bill told me, He said, imagine that it's a 601 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: big play. And Richard Doughty is one of the bit players, 602 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: and I'm one of the big players. And Bennewitz is 603 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: a bit player in one scene in one part of 604 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: the player of the movie or whatever it is. And 605 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: there's a whole other player movie going on that as little, 606 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: very little to do with what we're doing, but we're 607 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: just tangentially connected with them. A giant show being. And 608 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: he said, you know, and and Falcon was like, like 609 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: the director of the play, but the producer was he said, 610 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: was most likely William Casey. He said, if you look 611 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: at it that way, William Casey's a producer, Falcon is 612 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: a director, and Rick Dody and I and Ben and 613 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: Woods are all just a little bit players in one 614 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: little scene in this giant thing. To this point, in 615 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: this season of Strange Arrivals, we've looked at how folklore 616 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: was created through the Reyndels from Forest incident, how Alan 617 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: Heinek and the Project Bluebook investigations created a narrative of 618 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: government cover up, and now how the government itself fed 619 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: storylines into the UFO community to ostensibly muddy the waters 620 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: around military experimental aircraft. But there is another force that 621 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: has shaped our understanding of UFOs, and like the government's 622 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: disinformation operation, it both borrows from existing UFO folklore and 623 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: creates new arratives. This force is popular culture. Okay, great, um, 624 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: all right, well, why don't we just sort off? Could 625 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: you introduce yourself? Chris Carter, best known as creator of 626 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: the X Files, next time on Strange Arrivals. Strange Arrivals 627 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: is a production of i Heeart, three D Audio and 628 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was written 629 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 1: and hosted by Toby Ball and produced by Miranda Hawkins 630 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: and Josh Thame, with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick, 631 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: and Aaron Manky, and special thanks to Wendy Connors, creator 632 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: of the Faded Discs archive of UFO related audio on 633 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: archive dot org. Learn more about Strange Rivals over at 634 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild dot com, and find more podcasts from 635 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: my heart Radio by visiting the i heart Radio app, 636 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 637 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: You myst