WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 192 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.520 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:29.360 Welcome Dick. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.120 It happened here, a podcast that played some role in 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.400 the defeats of the Republicans reposed ban on using Medicaid 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.760 to pay for trans healthcare. I am your host, Mia Wong, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.440 and with me are three of the people who helped 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.200 make this whole thing possible. This is David Forbes, journalist 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.280 from the Ashville Blade, and Medica's News, Mattie Cassagin of 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.479 the namesake Medicast News, and Miura Laisine of Free Radical 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.200 and also Medica's News and all of you welcome to 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.959 the show. Congratulations on your defeat of the Republican part 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.840 already and helping to save trans healthcare for unbelievably large 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:05.040 numbers of people in this country. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:10.000 Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a sentence that's kind 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.560 of hard to accept, and you know, in a lot 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.679 of ways, it is really what we've been trying to say. 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.720 It's been like a collective effort of everyone involved, especially 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.120 to people at the grassroots, and you know, like I 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.800 guess to give listeners a little bit of context. So 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.800 going back to May, they're in the big beautiful bill 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:32.720 that unfortunately did pass. Originally Republicans included a ban on 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.319 government funding for Medicaid for gender transition procedures, and originally 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.880 just from miners in the House. Then right before they 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.520 passed it through the House, they actually removed the miners claws, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.160 so it was applying for all adults on Medicaid who 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.440 are trans At this point, everyone started kind of freaking out, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.720 which is very reasonable because you know, there's over two 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.960 hundred thousand trans people on Medicaid depending on the numbers, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.720 like hundred and seventy thousand depending on who you ask. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.200 And so what we found is, you know a lot 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.280 of other sources have told us this that the bird roll, 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.840 which is basically, you know, parliamentary procedure in the Senate 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.400 that only exists in the Senate because of the filibuster 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.160 pretty much is one way that we could kill this 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.720 is what they told us back in May, and so 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.680 that's something that we reported on and tried to take 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.560 like you know, basically like a don't panic angle or 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.760 don't panic yet at least you know, like that there's 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.640 a lot of ways to fight back against this, and 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.040 we provided you know, templates for here's how you can 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.760 email your senators and this is exactly what you should 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:31.119 tell them. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:32.160 You should call them. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.000 You could call specific people on specific committees and tell 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.639 specific things to them. And you know, of course a 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.440 lot of other organizations and people also chipped into this, 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.240 you know, a for t PE, head of campaigns and whatnot. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.040 But I think you know, at the end of the day, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.400 what really pushed the needle was the people calling in 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.320 and waking Democrats up to this issue. And basically what 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.720 ended up happening is we Wove sent it. Widen basically 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.280 argued to the parliamentarium that hey, this trans Medicaid band, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.720 it's not not a budgetary matter, it's actually a policy matter. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.680 And the parliamentarian agreed and ruled that it was basically 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.560 a sixty vote threshold and not a fifty vote threshold. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.200 So what that meant is that as long as all Democrats, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.040 or at least forty Democrats forty one Democrats were closing 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.320 this measure, it was basically guaranteed to be kicked out 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.440 of the bill. And we did end up having enough 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.480 Democrats to basically ensure that that provision didn't make it 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.600 into law, even though unfortunately the bill did pass at 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:29.200 the end of the day. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.639 Yeah, I think one thing that's notable about this, I 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.880 think one thing to emerge in our discussions, and while 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.480 she's not in the podcast, I really want to thank 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.720 Koreean Green for very invaluable policy insight into some of 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.520 this and some of the specific ways and weaknesses to 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.040 go after politicians on this. And you know, certainly we 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.200 were not alone in this. I think there were a 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.200 lot of grassroots organizations as well, and I think kind 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.800 of the approach that emerged and was successful, I think 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.760 it's kind of important how it happened, because one, it 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:06.120 identified a specific weakness who weren't just vaguely asking legislators 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.920 to do something about this. And two, I think it 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:14.520 did something which traditionally definitely democratic politicians, but even a 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.760 lot of the gay ink to use a term popular 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:22.560 among the law of transactivists like big lobbying groups and 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.240 establishment nonprofits been loath to do, which is it got 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.920 angry at democrats. It warned them that people were watching. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.640 It wasn't like pretty please, you know, will you do 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.920 something to stop this? And from two decades dealing with politicians, 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.800 that's a much more effective way to approach. If you're 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:41.840 just going to ask nicely, they'll ignore you. They ignore 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:46.760 your entire demographic, if you're marginalized, if they're afraid of you. However, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.680 if they're worried about their phone lines being shut down 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.880 with pushback, people are getting angry at them, then they 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.240 get worried and feel like they need to do something. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.719 So I think both with our article and with some 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.880 of the other grassroots groups involved, it really kind of 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.200 put the focus back on what people can do. But 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.799 it did it by identifying weakness and then pressing really 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.640 hard on it. And I think that's kind of a 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.480 break with how some of the very unsuccessful higher level 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.240 tactics that have you know, been used or not been 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.560 used against transphobic legislation before. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.160 Yeah, and I think I think it's important to, you know, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.080 look at the changing terrain of this all because a 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.920 lot of the sort of gig lobbying efforts were based 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.080 on conditions that don't exist anymore. And you could argue 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.120 how effective they were back in like you know, like 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.960 twenty fifteen. Yeah, right, and I still think there are 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.960 more effective things that could have been done. Then there 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.120 is no argument now like you can't just rely on 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.640 sort of like access as democratic politicians and being like, oh, hey, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.400 wh're this org? You want this thing to happen. And 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:55.760 we saw this a lot, and this is something that 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.440 our policy analyst friend Karine Green, who have had in 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.200 the show before, was talking about with like with the 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.200 Biden administration was the way that all of these orgs 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.320 sort of just fell in line behind the Biden administration, 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.080 like fucking over trans people's healthcare in ways that no 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.680 one ever really talked about, and that kind of access 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.000 model got flipped, you know, whatever they were trying to 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:18.800 do before, and you can are you know, you can 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.239 have arguments about like what they thought they were doing. 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.920 At this point, it's just like no, like you're not 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.520 existing to like protect queer people, You're existing to protect 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.840 the Democrats from queer people. And you know, and and 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.200 and the situation we're in now is one where and 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.240 there was some very very scary reporting coming out of 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.159 the Democrats were like it wasn't clear if they were 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.719 actually going to try to whip the votes together, like 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.880 to actually vote against this stuff, and so like we're 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.200 at a point where regardless of whatever you would have 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.120 supported before, and again like I think I think they 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.400 were wrong before, but like now, no, you had this 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.039 is the only way to do this shit, Like there's 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:56.919 no other mechanism. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.159 Yeah, So this has been something I've especially noticed in 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.280 like recording on this because myself and Matti we both 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.960 co reported on the initial story breaking the effect that 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.880 the Medicaid ban was going in there. Mattie especially did 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.920 all the stuff at the bird role. When we initially 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.520 started working in the story, it was just a small 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.000 tip we had that there was going to be something 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:24.200 big coming in the next funding bill, and I can 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.880 definitely speak that at the time, Democrats, lobbyists and so forth, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:33.760 they were just very like business as usual, right, they 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.600 were just even knowing that a lot of this was 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.760 kind of had the chance of emerging, and that there 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:42.480 was going to be a lot of bad stuff emerging, 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:43.960 a lot of it was still like trying to use 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:48.239 these whole tactics from way back when to just act 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:52.840 like everything is still as if it's you know, twenty fifteen, 0:07:53.320 --> 0:08:00.360 twenty fourteen, and once everything started to unferral and dedicae 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:06.920 band became added in to the bill itself. Witnessing it 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.280 all from just a reporting perspective was like it felt 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.400 like watching them all go into panic mode and yet 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.320 at the same time be like trying to find ways 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:18.960 to kind of push us to the side. 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.560 Yeah, And while I am. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.520 Of course, like god so incredibly thankful we were able 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.960 to play any type of role and getting this done. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:35.000 Like so, it's become a narrative among so many, for 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.040 lack of a better phrasing, proponents of gay ink, proponents 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.559 of the status quo, proponents of just you know, your 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:46.880 social democracy types, that the way forward is to be nice, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.400 to beg and plead for our rights, so hope that 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.120 they give us it. If we ask really really nicely, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.360 and we beg and plead and we say thank you, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.400 and we don't be too rude or else we'll earn 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.360 it and we'll deserve whatever they give. You know, It's 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:05.680 like what ultimately became the final straw was like, we 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:11.600 sent out a push for every single just reader, follower, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.480 every single listener podcast like everyone at home who just 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.800 spread this around, put pressure on the politicians, made it 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.240 clear this wasn't acceptable, made it clear that no, they 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.800 can't just ignore us and act like we don't exist, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.600 and that no, they can't just wash their hands away 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.640 and pretend like this is all fine and that their 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:38.280 records came that no, it's this is something that matters, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:43.000 This is something that has to be fought. And it 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.400 really boiled down to just the intense pressure everyone put publicly, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.800 like yeah, and I think it is just a very 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:55.480 ultimate testament to how the true power in any political 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.360 system lies not with just a handful of elected NEPO 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:04.319 babies end up getting into office, but with the regular 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.640 people who make their voice heard, who band together and 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.439 aren't afraid to say, hey, this shit is fucked up. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.360 We need to do something about it. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.679 Y'all are mentioning how like, whatever debate about the gang 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.959 approach before, it's it's not just dead now it's catastrophically failed. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.000 I honestly think that's kind of beyond debate at this point. 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.079 But one thing that I think kind of this shows 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.240 is that when you're doing with politicians, if all you 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.760 have is hey, pretty please be nice to us mater earlier, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.480 you just can you be ignored. But like if they 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.880 go no, what else do you have then? If you 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.840 don't have some other kind of leverage. And one thing 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:57.240 I've seen consistently at local, state, and federal levels is 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.800 the odds are a lot better if people are. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.400 Ancher and the politicians are afraid. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.440 Yep, So I think, yeah, nothing, that that's the real 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.959 vantage the grassroots have. You know, stop caring about the 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.920 politicians are your friends or really care about us? Because 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.240 generally the answer is they don't. None of them are 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.640 our friends. And more focus on what can you and 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.280 your communities, your friends, the larger networks you're part of 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.760 do to make their lives miserable until the part of 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.440 the SASCO you're trying to fight becomes unsustainable for them too. 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.080 What I heard from people on the on the hill 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.440 are people close to people on the hill, is basically 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.920 that the whole bird rule maneuver for this specific provision, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.079 there was you know, definitely whispers of it, you know, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.599 especially among lobbyists and maybe some staffers. But until it 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.520 was being publicly advocated for this specific tool to be 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:55.040 used by constituents towards senators Democratic senators specifically, it wasn't 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.720 really like hugely in consideration or like that wasn't something 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.679 they were planning to do in a very strongly like 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.719 maybe it would have happened eventually, but it definitely does 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.720 seem like the constituent pressure specifically did help kind of 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.160 make Democrats realize that, hey, we're watching, you're watching you do, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.160 like whether you're invoking these parliamentary procedures that you aren't 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:17.679 supposed to know about, Like you're not supposed to know 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.400 about this stuff, right, It's like it's really obscure stuff 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.120 that no one knows about except like super autistic policy ner. 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:28.960 It's like like me and a current probably, but yeah, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.720 and this kind of stuff is really what turns the needles. 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.800 And like you can look at the other side too, right, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.640 Like you know, there are extremely effective lobbies in Congress 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:40.160 you can look at you can look at the lobby 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.160 that literally got this provision into the bill. They sent 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.960 a letter to Speaker Johnson saying, hey, you should expand 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.280 this from miners only to adults because we think this 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.679 will actually help it survive the burg Row better. And 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.959 this was a public letter, right, And you know you 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.600 might say, oh, well that's not a big deal. Rights, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.160 It's a letter, right, But how many gay rights organizations 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.120 released a letter to Democrats saying they should in book 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.480 the Bird Rule? Yeah, I'm not aware of any like. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:07.880 I think that's the key part of this is that, yes, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.840 eventually some of those groups did start belatedly moving against this. Yes, 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.920 eventually it's probably into a second Some politicians did, in 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.480 various ways start moving against this. But I think it's 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.600 important not to get kind of the cart before the horse. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.360 That came after the grassroots pressure came after weeks of 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.679 people getting angry at them, blowing up their phones, very 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.120 public criticism, all the things that I think we're told 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:33.959 a lot of the time by liberals and Democrats were 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.840 not supposed to do. You know, be nice or you 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.040 know your concerns won't be heard. Well, it turns out 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.280 is that the Isaac Ollas is the case. And you 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.679 mentioned those conservative lobbyists, people will know, you know. I 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.319 don't think it's always a rule that the tactics or 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.560 enemy can be adopted for various reasons. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:51.800 But the NRA and a. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.720 Lot of these terrible groups don't go into Congress going hey, 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.160 please be nice to us. They go in going do this, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.760 or we're going to make your life Hell yeah. And 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.640 if you're if this is terrain, people are going to 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.600 fight on. That's how you have to fight as far 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.400 as because that's what moves politicians at every level is 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.199 it's oh my god, I do not want this group 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:15.960 angry at me. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.960 And there's one thing I want to add to is 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.000 since the bird Rolls and Folk in the Band was 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.960 taken out, there has emerged a common narrative online. It's 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.000 not really one specific person doing this, it's just kind 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.200 of something that's kind of collectively emerged in that claiming 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.040 that the credit lies with politicians, with lobbyists, with staffer, 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.040 it's with all these anonymous people behind closed doors who 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.960 are supposedly the ones that actually did the work, and 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.800 no one else matters. I want to strongly emphasize that 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.800 that is not only not true, but dangerous rhetoric. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.960 It's propaganda. 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.680 Yes, it's an attempt to reinforce the role that the 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.040 state has in subjugating everyone, to reinforce the fact that oh, no, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.960 the way things are is perfect. You can trust all 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.120 these leaders to protect you when you can't. They are 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.720 the reason we got in this mess. The Gayank tactics 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.240 are the things that have failed and led to this 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.200 in the first place. Liberals had plenty of opportunities prevents 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:24.720 this and they didn't. And ultimately, the reason that this 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.680 narrative spreads is because at the end of the day, 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.000 gay Yank has called that for a reason because well, yes, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.200 their interests happen to align on the realm of queer 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.760 rights because they themselves are queer. At the end of 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.200 the day, they are still representing the upper class, and 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.240 their primary interests are still going to be with protecting 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.960 the upper class and protecting the role they have in 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.440 subjugating the lower class and subjugating marginalized people who are 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.359 not in their economic class. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.120 Yeah, which is most trans people, like almost all of us. 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.160 Yeah, this is like. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.160 Really important because I don't think the intersections of queerness 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.280 and definitely not transist in class get talked. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:04.960 About nearly enough. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.720 Which is is that queer in transy or overwhelmingly working 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:15.880 class demographics. Yep, like the legislators you know, like Sara McBride, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.200 but also like the people running gag coorganizations are not 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.160 just like not generally representative of our wider communities in. 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:23.720 A lot of ways. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.520 They also just have had incredibly different lives almost always, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.000 with some exceptions, they've been part of the gentry their 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.840 entire lives, and most queer and trades people, especially trans people, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.480 are as far from the gentry as you get. So 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.760 that does create like this massive gulf, but also I 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.160 think it's one reason these groups are so out of touch. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.960 But also I think it does, you know, if we 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.400 put the power back on ourselves, if we realize that 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.040 this kind of grasstreots Anger is much more representative of 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.720 where queer and trans people are, If this willingness to 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.360 fight directly in whatever tactics people choose is much more 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.879 like in keeping with like queer culture and tradition and history, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:08.960 then I think there's a lot of power there. And 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.239 I think this is an example of successfully wielding that. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.919 I think Mirror was correct about this propaganda that's kind 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.200 of been spreading in the wake, and it was particularly 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.280 I think egregious because it specifically like tried to credit 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.760 Sara McBride, who had just come off a really obnoxious 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.639 interview with The New York Times where she was literally 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:29.840 against all. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.080 The aggressive trans rights and then after the band. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.960 Finally got killed, this you know, various sources, and honestly, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.920 I don't know anyone hearing this stuff in whatever capacities is 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.119 a journalist act was whatever. I think it's just professionally 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.600 good to be more skeptical when these kind of convenient 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.960 narratives emerge. But kind of embers, Oh, behind the scenes, 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.440 she'd been doing so much. Yeah, sure, in public she'd 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.159 been you know, very either low key or refusing defend 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.439 trains rights at all, even justifying some of the narratives 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.639 of our enemies. But sure she was doing all this 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:01.439 behind the scenes. 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.280 She refused to fucking do anything when they ban trans 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.439 people from fucking up bathrooms in DC. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:09.720 Yes, like in Capitol Town. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.160 You wouldn't even defend her own staffers. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:13.040 Yes, exactly. 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.760 So, like it's worth being skeptical of the claim that, oh, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.280 she was doing so much behind the scenes. However, you know, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.240 if she was prompted in the last week of a 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.080 multi week effort to suddenly start taking some action based 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.960 on anger, great. Part of the point these strategies is 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.800 to prompt people who don't want to act into feeling 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.720 like they're forced to act. But I think in twenty 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:37.240 years of covering politics at various levels, if politicians don't 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.720 like something, you will know. If they support something, you 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.280 will know they will be very loud and very public, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.879 because the public platform is one of the biggest powers 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.639 they have, as well as doing whatever behind the scenes 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.159 if they're quiet about something or even seem opposite to it, 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.560 especially if it involves a group on the front. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:55.720 Lines like trans communities. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.280 And then later on they try to kind of take 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.960 back credit of saying, oh, look, you know, we were 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.840 doing so much behind the scenes that is pretty universally 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.159 attacked to commit to demobilized people. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.240 Yeah, and I want to note that the point of 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.320 us saying this is not to say that you know, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.320 Sarah McBride or you know Saffher's or these other people 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.679 didn't do anything, like, of course, they did stuff right like, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.040 they voted, they were voting. Note, they probably made some 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.040 phone calls and stuff, right, But what we're saying is like, Okay, 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.960 they basically did the bare minimum of what they're supposed 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.520 to do right like, and that was only after a 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.160 huge pressure campaign from the grassroots and from people who 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.959 they would literally not be even in office without. Like 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.000 I did the math in an article way back in 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.919 that last November, and there's like exit polls showing that 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.920 like eighty six percent of LGBTQ people voted for Democrats 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.320 last year. That's like a crazy margin. That's like it's 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.720 up there with you know, black voters and LGBTQ people 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.360 are like the biggest bass of the Democratic Party, right, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.160 Like they would have lost three or four more Senate 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:59.680 seats they would it would have been like a fifty 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.480 six fifty seven seat chamber if it were not for 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.919 literally the people that are advocating for this healthcare. And 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.560 it's so absurd that, like Sarah McBride, what she did was, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.960 if we assume everything that's been said is true about 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.199 this is what she's done is basically she got Democrats 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.440 to not vote to take away the healthcare of two 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.680 hundred thousand trans people, which is like, why was that 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.080 even a question like this? This is the actual story 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.199 that came out of this. In my opinion, that was 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.240 bigger is that this was ever in question that there 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.920 might be like seven or eight Democrats who would vote 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.879 to ban medicate from two D three hundred thousand trans 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.399 people like and the fact that we're supposed to, like 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.240 give them a huge applause for not doing that is 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.639 kind of obscene to me. 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.960 Yeah, I think the readiness to thank politicians kind of 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.879 cuts against the grassroots anger and organizing that works so 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.879 well here because you don't want them. And actually I 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.560 think it's certainly a good rule not to thank politicians 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.560 because what you want constantly keep them in, if that's 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.840 the terrain you're going to fight on, is they need 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.879 to feel like they're on thin ice. They need to worry, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.119 their staff needs to worry about Okay, we got to 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.280 keep this out of the bill, because holy hell, you 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.520 do not want those queers mad at you. That's where 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.679 you want to get closer to if putting pressure on 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:24.800 politicians is what needs to happen, and so buying these narratives, 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.120 thanking them that takes the pressure off. Don't ever do that, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.800 you know, yes, And so I think it's it's kind 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.160 of important, and you know, to quote the Internet masterpiece 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.199 of old drill tweet like you do underneath circumstances, have 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:43.040 to hand it to them. At best, they acted late 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.960 grudgingly after they faced a ton of anger that resulted 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.840 and was helped amplified by a ton of work from 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:52.840 bluntly like working. 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.840 Class trans people and working class queer people. 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.720 Yeah, and I would argue that what Representative McBride did specifically, 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.080 even assuming that it like help us in the short 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.520 term with this bill, the way that she's been kind 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.639 of talking about this internally and in the New York 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:10.639 Times interview is actually extremely dangerous for trans people because 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:12.600 I believe it or not, they're not going to stop 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:14.360 with this this bill. They're going to do it again. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.600 They're going to do it again, probably in budget bills 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.719 or another reconciliation bill. And at some point it's going 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.639 to come down to the wire where Democrats will have 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.920 to publicly defend the right of trans people to have 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.200 healthcare and to be alive and to exist. That that's 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.439 going to happen at some point. And what McBride has 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.720 been telling everyone, what she's been telling as her client 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.240 on New York Times, what she was telling Democrats behind 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.080 the scenes, according to the notice article, is that you 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.119 can't talk about these issues. You have to be really quiet. 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.200 You just have to do it behind the scenes. Because 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.919 it's too hot topic of an issue. You know, you 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.439 don't want to accidentally, like I don't know, show the 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.200 world that trans people might actually deserve to exist. It 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:51.520 doesn't It doesn't even make sense. 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:52.560 I think they just doesn't. 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:54.960 They just like feel gross arguing it, like personally like 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.000 they don't there's no political like, there's no like good 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.800 political calcitalusts. They just feel gross talking about trans people. 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:02.760 Is my opinion that this is why they don't want 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.280 to do it. It's like it's bad for them politically. 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.800 They will lose votes, they will lose political power. They 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:21.520 just like hate us. Basically, I don't know, we. 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.000 Should never be nice or kind or thank politicians, like 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.560 both Maddie and David had said they are not our friends. 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.959 Like there is a popular approach that I think a 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:33.879 lot of people end up having towards these kind of 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.879 quote unquote leaders that they are somehow these mythical saviors 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:41.639 of everyone, that they're all leading these nonprofits, they're leading, 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.479 these companies, these governments save us. They are not our friends. 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:47.880 They do not give a shit about us. You would 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:50.240 be surprised to things I've heard behind closed doors that 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.720 they have said they are not your friends. They hate 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.200 every single fucking poor person. They will never say that vocally, 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:58.320 but they hate us. 0:23:58.359 --> 0:23:59.280 Especially the transplants. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.520 Oh yeah, oh, and it's like us to be subservient 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.040 to them until the day we fucking die, because it's 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:11.399 all about consolidating their own power. And the kind of 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.560 core of what I'm getting at here is kill the 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.959 idol in your head. You should never have an idle like. 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.520 There is no person worth idolizing, not only not gay, 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.119 and not even only not anyone in this call, this 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:30.160 podcast now, no one at all should be idolized, because 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.560 doing that is placing all the power in the hands 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.560 of people you don't know, in the hands of people 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.640 who are just as human as anyone else. And even 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.240 if they're very good, people who do good things are 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.800 fundamentally capable of fucking up and doing bad. And if 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:50.000 you idolize someone, you end up condoning everything they do, 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.119 whether you even say it or otherwise. It comes with 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:57.240 the territory. Fundamentally, you should not rely on other people 0:24:57.240 --> 0:24:59.959 to save you. You should rely on you and your community. 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:03.600 You need to fucking work with your community to bring 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.600 about the outcomes you want. And I mean you the 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:11.679 listener like you specifically, Yes, you need to work with 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:13.400 your community to bring about what you need. 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:15.920 I think that's that's kind of the message that should 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:20.760 emerge from this is no one in Washington organization and 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:22.120 politician are the ones of the power here. 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:22.560 You are. 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:25.120 You and your friends are you and your community are 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:26.840 And I know we've said that a little bit before, 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:29.919 but it's worth re emphasizing how much people can do 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:32.200 when they get together and decide to do something about 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:32.800 these issues. 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:35.280 Yeah, and I think that's a really good note to 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:39.480 end on. However, come up before we do that very 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:42.280 exciting news, do you all want to introduce introduce the 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:43.119 new news network. 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.000 Hell yeah, we have a huge news to announce that's 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:49.760 related to the news website that we used to write 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:53.600 this article about. The bird Roll, formerly known as Maddicast 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:57.199 News will now be known as trans News Network, and 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:00.800 we're basically relaunching completely. We're switching up our business model 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.840 from technically was a for profit before, but now it's 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:08.680 going to be part of fiscally sponsored nonprofit of community partners. 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:13.080 And we're also moving off subset to behive and so, 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:16.520 you know, as Mira and David were saying, earlier, like 0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:19.439 we don't want you to rely on us to save you, 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:21.560 Like it's kind of like a team effort, right, Like 0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:23.320 we do have a part to play. We'll help will 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.280 help you give you information, but we also could use 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.959 help from you. We could use help from the listener, 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:31.520 especially people who do have you know, some people have 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.720 more time, some people have more resources or money. And 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.399 one thing that we are looking to do with our 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.280 relaunch is to fundraise so we can basically, you know, 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.919 ensure that basically our journalists like you know, Mirra and 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:47.600 David have the financial stability they need to continue making 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.119 journalism like this. And so we're launching with a fundraiser 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:53.960 and we're gonna we'll have a link I guess with 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.480 the podcast description and there will be like you know, 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.080 you can get a free gift if you donate a 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:00.600 certain amount. That's a huge way to help. But as well, 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.320 you know, you also need to actually listen to the 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:05.399 things that people in your community say, like what are 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:07.280 the things people in your community are saying that can help? 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:10.280 What are other ways that you can contribute back to 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:14.040 save yourselves basically because put all in this together, and yeah. 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:17.719 I think also one of the reasons I'm really excited 0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:21.200 about the Trans News Network and the transition as it were, 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:26.760 to the Trans is that I think our collective experiences 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.520 and our experience with this fight as well, have shown 0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:35.320 that there is a real need for hard hitting, powerful, 0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:41.119 unrepentantly radical and trans journalism, trans journalism that actually gets 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:45.359 trans communities and proceeds kind of to take the fight 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:49.040 from there. And so that's that is badly needed. And 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:53.960 I think we are, from our own experiences and from 0:27:54.119 --> 0:27:56.959 kind of what we've all built working together like able 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:57.840 to be part of that. 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:01.879 Yeah, and just to have one thing because I know 0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:05.199 how many trans people artistic and need to hear this 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:07.960 spout out. I'm one of them. This is explicitly a 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:10.480 worker's co op. We are doing this radical from the 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:14.400 ground up. Everyone gets eqal say this is a community thing. 0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.679 This is not some like, oh, you know, we're doing this, 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.800 but then there's a nice CEO who makes five hundred k. Now, 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.400 this is the money is going to the journalists who 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.840 need it. This is a group of us basically deciding, hey, 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.600 we need to fucking keep doing this work. We want to, 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:34.600 we need to support, we need help. Yeah, and we're 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:37.520 joining the bandwagon of all these news outlets doing workers 0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:39.200 co ops because that's the only way you can fucking 0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:40.960 make money in this industry nowadays. 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:43.360 It's also the fairest and best way to do it. 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:43.800 Yep. 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:44.720 It is it. 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:47.719 It's objectively the best and most ethical way to do 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.400 this under the healthscape of capitalism, yep. 0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:54.000 And Antimyra's point, and I'm gonna we went on this 0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:57.280 podcast earlier this year to talk about trans journalism, and 0:28:57.520 --> 0:28:59.479 you might want to listen to that as well if 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:02.080 you're curious on like just the struggles that a lot 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:04.760 of us have dealt with, and number one is, you know, 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.080 the material need for money basically. And I'm going to 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.440 say what I said in that episode again, which is 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:14.360 that one hundred dollars for some people, like you know, 0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:18.000 let's say working class transferson is very different compared to 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.480 one hundred dollars for people in other social classes. You know, 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:23.800 maybe someone working in tech or something like, maybe you'll 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:25.560 get a dinner at the one hundred dollars and it's 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:27.240 not a big deal to you, right, it could be 0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.680 life changing for someone else who's literally like spending their 0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:34.880 life creating news to help trans people like you know this, 0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:36.960 this article that we wrote, it wasn't a huge amount 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:39.480 of money that that took to create that. But at 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:41.880 the same time, we don't have a lot of money 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:44.760 to go around like it's it's being basically a small 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:46.120 number of people. We have a we have a good 0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:49.160 number of like paid subscribers to but really in order 0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:51.360 to keep expanding the way we want to, we really 0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:54.200 need more money and it's going to be so huge 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:55.960 to trans people everywhere. 0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:59.600 So yeah, So if someone has money and it's interested 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:02.760 in support trans journalism, that is all the things we've 0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:05.640 just talked about and I think makes a real difference. Yeah, 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:10.040 please sign episode Haide subscriber donate to the fundraiser. Every 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:12.720 single dollar of that we will put to use. 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:13.960 Yep. 0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:17.000 Our first goal is basically to hire one of our 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:19.760 journalists as a part time W two employee, which should 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:21.000 be literally life changing. 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.160 So yeah, yeah, And when we said this in the 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.680 last episode, and we're going to say it again, working 0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:29.520 class trans journalism can exist if you support it, And 0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:33.280 every single dollar that you sent to a working class 0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.560 trans journalist is going one hundred times further that it's 0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:39.080 going for any other thing you can do to like 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:41.560 like it's going so much further that it is giving 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:44.240 it to like fucking the Human Rights Committee or whatever 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.080 the fuck, Like, wait, is what's actually with it? Organization? 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:48.000 Human Rights Campaign? 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:48.280 Yeah? 0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:49.360 Yeah, here was that one? 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:50.800 Yeah yeah yeah. 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:53.880 Well, by the way, did I mention it's tax seductible, So. 0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:56.720 Got to throw that in there. 0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:59.400 If you itemiz your deductions, if you give like one 0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:01.640 hundred dollars to us, then you get to pay like 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:04.200 you know whatever, like thirty dollars less goes to the 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:07.200 federal government, which means slightly less money for ice in Israel. 0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:08.680 That's how I see it anyway. 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:15.480 Okay, your God, I'm tired of living off my measly savings, 0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:16.160 dear God. 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:18.680 Please, yeah, you can tell her really trying to sell 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:20.520 this well. 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.200 And also I think, like you know, Mirror and myself 0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:27.760 both do other trans journalism work. I'm part of the 0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:30.480 editor at The Ashville Blade, which is a local trans 0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:35.040 journalist co op, and you know, we've seen how far 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:38.680 that goes. So so yeah, like the more support for 0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:43.560 trans journalism period, TRANSUS Network, the Free Radical Asheville Blade, 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:45.560 some of the other projects out there, the better. 0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:47.280 Yep, this has been Nick. 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.520 It happen here, Support, support trans journalism, and go keep 0:31:51.520 --> 0:32:01.840 fighting the good fight. 0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.480 Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happened here. We 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:17.440 are joined once again by Gillian Brockel, who is once 0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:21.320 again going to talk to us about the terrible actually 0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:24.920 world of deportation flights, how we can track them, what 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:28.640 we can learn from following them, and what it tells 0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:33.320 us about the US's massive deportation regime. Welcome back, Thanks 0:32:33.360 --> 0:32:34.040 for joining. 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:36.160 Us, Thank you for having me, James, I appreciate it. 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.080 You're welcome. All right, let's get going here this We've 0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:40.239 got a lot to go whether there's been a lot 0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:41.800 of planes deporting. 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:45.640 People, deporting and removing, so we've really stopped saying deporting 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:51.000 because we don't know who hasn't gotten due process and 0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:54.320 who does and does not actually belong to the country 0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:55.080 they're being sent to. 0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:58.240 Yeah, in many cases, it's more like what we saw 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:02.480 in the extraordinary, very much so kind of war on Terry. 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:04.840 I think it was pretty a better way to describe it. See, 0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:06.680 let's start out. I suppose it was Jibouti. 0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:12.719 Yeah, so the eight men that were sent to Djibouti, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:16.360 that's the flight I first tracked on May twentieth. They 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:19.320 were taken on a Gulf Stream five operated by Journey 0:33:19.360 --> 0:33:24.080 Aviation from Harling in Texas to Shannon Airport in Ireland, 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:27.240 and I you know, called the cops in Ireland to 0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:30.080 try and stop. It didn't work, and then they went 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:33.440 to a US military base in Djibouti, where Judge had 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:37.320 ordered them to remain while he considered their case. So 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:41.880 those men are now in South Sudan where Trump wanted 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:45.760 to send them. They were held in Jibouti for six weeks. 0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:49.920 We know from court filings that they were held inside 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:52.959 a shipping container in a far corner of the base 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:57.000 near a burn pit where the trash for the base 0:33:57.320 --> 0:34:00.680 was burned, and that smoke from this pit was getting 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:03.960 into the shipping container through the events and causing the 0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:08.000 men and the ICE guards to cough and feel ill. 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:13.839 There was also an independent journalist named Alex Planck who 0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:17.120 got a photo from a source on the base showing 0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:20.480 one of the detainees shackled at the ankles and being 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.040 escorted by an ICE guard to the restroom because the 0:34:24.120 --> 0:34:27.560 shipping container did not have its own restroom. And he 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.120 said that most of the members of the military at 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:34.120 the base didn't even know that they were there. And 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.759 you know, this base is generally considered like one of 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:40.920 the worst assignments to get when you're in the military. 0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:45.399 Plank said he talked to a defense contractor who said 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:49.960 that they stopped sending their employees to that base because 0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:54.360 it was just too terrible. So during the six week period, 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:58.640 I and other flight trackers we tracked five trips by 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:03.080 round trip trips by Journey Aviation jets to and from 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.960 their base in Miami and Djibouti, all traveling through Shannon. 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:11.520 Presumably these were flights that were swapping out ICE guards, 0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.680 but we really don't know because ICE does not provide 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:18.719 any information about its air operations. Everything we know is 0:35:18.760 --> 0:35:22.879 through court filings and through open source intelligence like the 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:27.920 ADSB Exchange. Then on July third, the Supreme Court cleared 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:32.120 the way for these third country removals, and this one 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.160 specifically to South Sudan. All of US flight trekers were 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:40.040 watching the airspace really closely, and we knew that one 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.640 of Journey's jets was already there on the ground in Jibouti, 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:45.839 so that's what we were looking for. But then on 0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:49.080 the evening of July fifth, about two days later, DHS 0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:52.799 announced that it was done. They had removed the detainees 0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:57.080 to Saua, Sudan via a military flight earlier that day. 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:00.840 And I have gone over the air track data for 0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:05.280 that region six times on ADSB exchange, and I haven't 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:09.719 been able to spot this military flight. And granted, Djibouti 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.680 is a real ADSB dead zone, but Juba isn't. Juba 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:17.880 actually has quite good coverage, and you know, Addis Ababa 0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:20.239 also has very good coverage which they would have had 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:24.520 to fly over. So it's clear to me that this 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:29.040 military flight, if it happened as DHS claims, probably flew 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:32.920 the entire trip with its transponder turned off, which is 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.759 something that the military can do, but it's not standard. 0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:41.360 I think people would be surprised how rare actually it 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:44.200 is for military flights to do that, unless they're going 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:48.160 on a combat or a spy mission. Most military aircraft 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.680 fly with their transponders on. So if you think about 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:54.880 the Iran air strikes a couple of weeks ago, the 0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:58.480 week before the air strikes, there were thirty two Globe 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.360 Masters and Strata tankers that flew from the US to 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.600 bases in Europe, in a single night that like every 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:08.359 av geek was like, whoa, you know, and we knew 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:11.160 that that happened because they flew with their transponders on, 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:13.799 even though it made it really obvious that some kind 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.920 of military operation was probably imminent. And then even during 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:22.720 the air strikes, these aircraft would take off from Europe 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.080 with their transponders on, turn them off over the Mediterranean 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.040 when they were heading east, do whatever they were doing, 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:31.880 and then turn them back on when they were headed 0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:36.200 back toward Europe. So even part of the combat mission, 0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:40.040 they still have their transponders on. So the fact that 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.640 the flight to Sasudan, which was not a combat or 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.600 a spy mission, appears to have flown the entire trip 0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:50.200 with its transponder off is quite notable to me. And 0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:53.280 you know, I see it as an extension of ISIS 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:56.880 tactics on the ground where they are covering their faces 0:37:56.960 --> 0:38:00.399 and refusing to identify themselves. But I'm, you know, kind 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.160 of surprised that they got the military to go along 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:03.440 with that. 0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:07.440 Yeah, if it was really a military flight relic, it 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:11.919 could be something kind of military adjacent like some DHS 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:16.600 or other government aircraft, right. 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:17.600 I mean We don't know. 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.239 Yeah, they said it happened via military flight on this date, 0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:22.440 but we don't know. 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:23.480 Yeah. 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:27.040 So on July eighth, the spokesperson for the South Sudanese 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:30.279 government told the AP that the men were there and 0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:32.920 that they were quote under the care of the relevant 0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:36.440 authorities who are screening them and ensuring their safety and 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:39.040 well being. We have no idea what that means. Does 0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:42.319 that mean they're in prison there? Does that mean that 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:46.200 they are going to be sent to their countries of 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:50.600 origin as they claimed at one point? We have no idea. Yeah, 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.160 And then just a few minutes ago, we're recording this. 0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:57.720 On Besiel Day, July fourteenth, the same plane that first 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:01.200 took these men to Djibouti scheduled to take off from 0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:05.200 El Paso for Shannon Airport in Ireland. Once again, where 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:07.680 it goes after that, Well, you might know by the 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.880 time you hear this, but right now it's anyone's guess. 0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:14.520 Yeah, it's baffling, like some of this stuff, like the 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:18.800 deportations to or no deportations, like rendition to South Sudan. 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:22.840 Right like even Homan, who's the Trump's quote unquote borders 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.000 are or immigrations are seems to be asserting that he 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.919 has no idea what happened to them once they've landed there, 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:31.720 Like right, at one point they suggested that they didn't 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:35.360 think they would be detained, but like did they just 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:37.680 let them out into the street in I mean, when 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:41.040 people are released from custody in the United States, that's 0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:42.600 exactly what they do, right, they let them out into 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:45.600 the street. Like, Yeah, a lot of volunteers here in 0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:48.080 San Diego have spent a lot of time, you know, 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:51.279 because often people are released without Sometimes they're released without 0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:54.319 religious garments, which are very important to them. Often they're 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:58.279 released without any sort of orientation as like where are 0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:00.960 they how they get where they're going? Can they afford 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:03.560 a flight? You know, how do they book a flight? 0:40:03.600 --> 0:40:05.479 Do they have the relevant documents to book a flight? 0:40:05.560 --> 0:40:08.879 Like it's a complete clusterfuck. And that's it in the US. 0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:10.920 Right, And I mean think about it. If you're like 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:15.120 Laosian or Vietnamese man in your fifties or sixties, which 0:40:15.160 --> 0:40:19.080 a lot of these men are older gentlemen, and you're 0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:23.200 what just like led out into the streets of Juba, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.520 which is, you know, a big city, but there's a 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.600 lot of instability in this country, Like what are you 0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:30.680 going to do it a spig dinker? Like what you know? 0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:35.160 Yeah, you're very vulnerable, very vulnerable, and you probably don't 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:37.359 have any material resources. It's not that you can get 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:38.880 your credit card and take out much of money and 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:42.319 fly somewhere else. Nor do these people really have in 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:44.600 many cases anywhere to go, right, Like the reason that 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:47.200 they're being taken to third countries is generally that they 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:51.799 have withholding of removal or Convention against torture claims that 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.120 they can't be removed to their home countries. Since we 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.000 recorded this, we have found out that people in South 0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:00.520 Sudan are being detained. According to a like called The 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:05.280 Daily with your South Studentees Outlet, those people are incarcerated 0:41:05.320 --> 0:41:06.960 in South Suda. 0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:10.640 Like the man for me and Mar. You know, they're 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.440 arguing that, you know, I suppose, oh, we can't send 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:15.600 him to me and Mar, But if you're going to 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.360 send him to another place where he's likely to be tortured, 0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:22.320 is really any different? And also they are sending people 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.759 to me and Mar. They have departed people to me 0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:26.680 and Marr in the last few months, as you James 0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:27.280 have reported. 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:30.000 Yeah, that's right, they've sent more than a dozen people 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:33.319 to MEMMR and seem to be continuing at least they 0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:36.120 have not said they will stop. And most of those 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:40.080 people were directly detained by military intelligence and MEMMA when 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.200 they landed, so that those people will have been tortured. 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:46.200 And yeah, this this other person who had withholding it 0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:48.720 for removal, doesn't mean that he will not be tortured. 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.480 I mean, if we look at like migrants making the 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:57.320 journey to the United States are routinely kidnapped, tortured, ransom killed, 0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:00.840 sexually assaulted. I've heard of all of these first hand. 0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:03.799 I don't suspect it will be any different. You know, 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:06.680 once they're outside the US again, they're extremely vulnerable. And 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.480 we saw this a lot in Chitl forty two, when 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.200 the Trump administration and the Bid administration would just boot 0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:14.759 people back over the border. Often they would do lateral transfers, 0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:16.879 so you enter in the San Diego sector, they drop 0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:20.839 you in the Laredo sector or somewhere further east, and 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.520 those people then have zero network right and often don't 0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:28.239 speak Spanish and are extremely vulnerable. It's pretty much the 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:29.560 worst case outcome here. 0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:34.200 Well, unfortunately, in the next part I'm about to tell 0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:37.160 you about how all of that is about to increase exponentially. 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:41.400 Yeah, talking of things that are increasing, they're not actually increasing. 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:43.600 We sort of have to do to advertisements every show 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:49.000 that will get to be one of them. Now, all right, 0:42:49.120 --> 0:42:51.880 we are back. I have you enjoyed those adverts here? 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:54.920 We had some new ones for like a religiously sanctient gold, 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:59.480 which I'm very exciting about. This is one thing Jesus 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:03.200 loved it. Money changes a lot of stuff in the 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:03.960 Bible about that. 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:06.360 I think silver especially right. 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:10.120 Yeah, I think big precious metals. Guy, love to see 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:16.040 currency speculation. Okay, let's talk about Djibouty, place where the 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:18.920 United States has a big base that it is using 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:23.200 for housing people that is renditioning to other countries. 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:24.920 Yeah. 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:27.839 So when we first recorded this, we were just doing 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:32.640 a Djibouti update about the men who were renditioned to 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:36.520 South Sudan, and we knew at the time that there 0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:41.359 was another Journey Aviation jet about to take off. And 0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:45.200 now we know what happened with that flight. It landed 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:50.480 again in Djibouti and two days later DHS announced that 0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:55.120 it had renditioned five more people to the country. Of Swatini, 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.560 which I've been to. I reported there in twenty eleven. 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.880 I spoke to you teachers who were starving because they 0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:04.680 hadn't been paid for eight months by the king, who 0:44:04.840 --> 0:44:08.440 you know is the last absolute monarch in Africa. And 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:12.360 you know, the teachers that I spoke to were terrified 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:16.279 to disappear into the prisons that these five men have 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:21.040 now been renditioned to. I worked with another independent journalist 0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:26.000 named Alex Plank, and we published a story using OSIN 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:31.320 to prove that that journey flight to Djibouti was carrying 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:33.960 the five men and from there they were transported by 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:39.359 a C seventeen US military you know, huge aircraft that 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:43.840 flew with its transponders off from Djibouti to Swatini to 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:44.759 deliver these men. 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:49.480 Seems like that is the emerging standard for these military 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.279 deportation flights, right at least for the final leg. 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:56.840 Yeah, so the last week has been pretty crazy. 0:44:57.400 --> 0:44:57.680 Yeah. 0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:04.000 An Omni seven sixties did a removal flight to a 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:08.239 couple places in Africa, and at least two and perhaps 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:13.080 three large military jets also did removal flights from the 0:45:13.200 --> 0:45:17.960 United States, landing in Gemo just for fun and landing 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:22.680 in different countries in Africa. Now, the interesting thing about 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:27.799 that and about Journey is that until this past week, 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:33.400 Africa and Central Asia have really been the purview of 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:37.440 this other ice air operator that's really gone under the radar. 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:43.560 But I think it's possible might be doing some things 0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:47.640 that are even more sinister than your usual ice air flights. 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:55.440 So this company is called Aircraft Transport Service. They are 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:58.600 Florida base, but they are now all of their aircraft 0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:01.200 are based in Mesa, Arizona, which is an ICE hub, 0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:05.120 and they're at the end of their five year contract 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:11.319 doing these special high risk removals to dangerous areas or 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:18.360 with you know, allegedly dangerous migrant passengers. Their flights really 0:46:18.400 --> 0:46:25.120 began to spike in mid February up until July fourth. 0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:28.920 They have five private jets that they lease from their 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.759 owners to operate these flights. And I've looked at all 0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:36.040 of their flights and it's not clear if they are 0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:43.040 doing any flights that aren't ICE, but certainly at least 0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:48.800 most of their business is ICE. And so I've tracked 0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:54.040 nineteen different trips, different ice removal trips that they've done 0:46:54.320 --> 0:47:00.239 since February eighteenth, and most of these have gone to 0:47:00.600 --> 0:47:06.080 countries in Africa, and that really began to surge around 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:12.719 April twenty ninth. And what I've noticed is that on 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:15.480 June twenty six, New York Times published a story about, 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:19.239 you know, the Trump administration is pressuring all of these 0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:25.960 countries to accept more of these third country removals, and 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:29.640 there's a lot of overlap between that list of countries 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:34.480 and the countries that ATS has been landing in for 0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:39.640 the last four months. There is a pair of flights 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:44.680 in particular that I find pretty alarming. They went out 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:49.000 within thirty minutes of each other on May twentieth, which 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:53.439 was the same day that the flight to Djibouti, when 0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:57.439 the flight that was supposed to go to Sasudan and 0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:03.200 these flights, so these flights started doing their usual ice 0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:07.360 removal route, which is, you know, MESA, maybe we stop 0:48:07.400 --> 0:48:11.200 in Fort Worth to pick up more migrants, then you 0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:14.760 do a fuel stop in San Juan, you do another 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:17.680 fuel stop in Senegal, and then you go wherever you're 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:21.720 going to go in West Africa. These flights, thirty minutes 0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:25.840 apart from each other, flew directly from San Juan to 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:31.880 Mauritanium and we're on the ground for thirty minutes, and 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:36.200 then from their flew to Senegal. You know, I can't 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:40.399 prove anything because ICE does not communicate about its air 0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:43.759 operations at all, you know, unless they feel like it 0:48:43.800 --> 0:48:46.640 because they want to brag about it, or because you know, 0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:50.640 they're ordered to bite courts. These flights to me seem 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:56.359 particularly alarming as possible flights where there could have been 0:48:56.560 --> 0:49:00.480 third country removals that we don't even know about. And 0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:04.759 Marissa Cavas, she's an independent reporter who has a site 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:08.719 called The Handbasket. At the end of April, she reported 0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:11.320 that there was a third country removal that hasn't gotten 0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:13.919 a lot of attention and I don't know why, because 0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:16.600 it's really messed up. A third country removal of an 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:21.480 Iraqi man to Rwanda, which happened on April fourth, after 0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:25.799 he legally migrated to the US. He was accused of 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:31.120 murder in Iraq. There's incontroversial evidence proving that he did 0:49:31.200 --> 0:49:34.120 not commit this crime. He wasn't even in Iraq when 0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:39.680 it happened, but the Biden administration continued with his removal, 0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:43.520 and because he couldn't go back to Iraq because he 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:47.480 would have been executed. They had been looking for a 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:50.560 safe third country for him. They did not finish that 0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:53.120 when they handed the keys over to the Trump administration. 0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:58.680 So on April fourth, he was removed to Rwanda. And 0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:03.399 he has a lot of media contacts, and no one 0:50:03.440 --> 0:50:05.440 has heard from him. I have not seen a report 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:08.800 about him, you know. I tried to contact his family, 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:12.520 was unsuccessful. I contacted his attorney and didn't hear back. 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:18.560 So ATS operated a flight. It began at about eleven 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:24.120 thirty on April second to this Fort Worth airport that's 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:28.600 right next to an iced attention center San Juan, Senegal, 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:33.800 and then landed in Nairobi. Now Nairobi is not Kigali 0:50:34.120 --> 0:50:37.480 in Rwanda, but they're only about an hour apart. And 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:40.600 if you look at the flight data, the aircraft at 0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:43.400 that point had been operating for about twenty three hours straight, 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.560 which is stretching the boundaries of legality, even if you 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:51.840 have two crews. So there's a lot of reasons why 0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:57.120 ICE might have taken him to Nairobi and then done 0:50:57.160 --> 0:50:59.760 something else for the last leg I think the most 0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:03.759 likely the explanation is that the crew had to rest 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:07.279 and I decided that they didn't want to wait, so 0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:12.040 they may have chartered a local puddle jumper to take them, 0:51:12.400 --> 0:51:14.160 you know, over the lake to Quida. 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:18.000 It's pretty common, I think too, when I've flew into Kikali, 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:21.120 I think I've stopped in Kinshasa and Nairobi. I don't 0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:23.919 know if it's a big planes can't land there. It's 0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:27.000 just the kind of the way it works. Fewer people 0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:29.759 are flying to Kigali directly from the USO Europe than 0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:32.000 are going to places like King Shasta, Nairobi, so it 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:34.359 might just be that they don't do direct flights. But yeah, 0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:37.640 I don't think I've ever done a direct like big 0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:39.200 plane flight, right. 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.279 It seems that the only aircraft going in and out 0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:45.399 of there are going to Nairobi and Kampala, and from 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:47.080 there you connect somewhere else. 0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:48.919 It's a pretty small airport. 0:51:49.080 --> 0:51:52.520 So so yeah, that's ATS. They've kind of flown under 0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:57.160 the radar because global x is doing so much more 0:51:57.440 --> 0:52:01.480 in terms of numbers. But I think it's quite possible 0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:06.120 that ATS's mission for the past few months has been 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:11.960 to sort of pilot program small amounts of third country 0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:17.360 removals to these different countries, just like omar Amin because 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:21.120 after Omaramin was sent to Rwanda. The State Department sent 0:52:21.200 --> 0:52:24.480 a cable that Mrsakabas obtains saying, oh man, it totally worked. 0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:26.839 This is great. Let's send ten more people. 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:32.880 At a cost to one hundred thousand head right, right again, 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:36.040 maybe suggesting cars rationally, one hundred grand is going to 0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:37.759 cover more than your paperwork, you. 0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:40.799 Know, right, And just to be clear about you know, 0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:44.719 the cost all of these military flights that have been 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:48.839 flying around Africa now doing isis dirty work. Those cost 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.840 about twenty eight five hundred dollars an hour to operate, 0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:57.960 and of course cost is the least important thing here. 0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:01.880 But my god, you know, for an administration that claims 0:53:01.880 --> 0:53:04.279 to care about government waste. 0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:07.439 Yeah, this is ridiculous. We don't know how much they're 0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:12.080 paying people in South Sudana, the monarchy of Aswardini. We 0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:14.920 don't know what they're sort of bribing these people to accept. 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:17.680 I just checked with Mauritania. It's currently a level three 0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:21.560 State Department travel warning telling people to reconsider travel due 0:53:21.560 --> 0:53:25.040 to terrorism and crime. That's why we're sending people. I 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:30.120 have explained the many and varied human rights abuses that 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:32.319 have happened in Mauritania on the show before, so you 0:53:32.360 --> 0:53:34.719 can go back and listen to other episodes. Do you 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:37.359 want to want to hear about those hundreds of Mauritanians, 0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:42.160 if not thousands, entered the United States in the tail 0:53:42.440 --> 0:53:45.440 end of the Biden administration. I'm thinking like it was 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:49.040 late summer of twenty twenty three when I recall seeing 0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:51.240 many of them. Just in my workdown at the border. 0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:55.320 We often get very hot, like September's Octobers in southern California, 0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:58.319 and a few times have come across Mauritanian people who 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:02.840 are in really bad just during those sort of hot months, 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:05.719 and it's always stuck with me that, like some of 0:54:05.760 --> 0:54:09.400 the stories they had were horrific treat and I'm sure 0:54:10.000 --> 0:54:11.480 that it's some of those people who are now being 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:13.560 sent back and just the fact that they tried to 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:16.600 leave will have made things even worse for them. 0:54:16.719 --> 0:54:23.080 So yeah, I mean these flights going to Mauritania, which 0:54:23.120 --> 0:54:26.560 includes one of the military flights last week, you know, 0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:30.840 slavery still exists in Mauritania. There's a minimum of ninety 0:54:30.880 --> 0:54:33.560 thousand people there who are still enslaved. That's the low 0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:38.080 end of the estimates. And you know, it's been illegal 0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:42.600 since nineteen eighty one, but the practice is really protected 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:48.320 by a culture of secrecy, not just among Mauritanian elites, 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.480 but the multinational corporations who are embedded there and will 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:55.440 just kind of look the other way while they're you know, 0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:59.319 extract natural resources with people in the minds that like, 0:54:59.360 --> 0:55:02.239 they're not really a check if they're enslaved or not. So, 0:55:03.000 --> 0:55:07.959 you know, maybe we're doing third country deportations and removals there. 0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:12.160 Maybe we're just sending Mauritanians back to a really horrible place. 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:15.960 Yeah, and it doesn't hugely matter, right, We're sending people 0:55:16.000 --> 0:55:18.799 back to a place where they are very likely to 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:22.440 be tortured, to be as you say, like faust un 0:55:22.480 --> 0:55:26.720 free labor, to be incarcerated without having committed a crime. 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.239 Doesn't really matter whether's people are wont it's fucked. The 0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:31.839 embassy doesn't let us people drive around Mauritania at night, 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:34.120 have to be in the capitol. They can only walk 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:37.319 in certain places. Give an idea of like how this 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:42.200 double standard is applied talking of multinational corporations, I would 0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:50.960 love to hear from. So let's do that now, all right, 0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:54.240 we are back and we were talking about the safety 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:57.080 of private jets. Some of these flights have some pretty 0:55:57.080 --> 0:56:02.200 horrific safety practices, right, and this, like, when you mentioned this, 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:05.279 it instantly reminded me of a thing that I have 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:10.920 had no luck trying to sell stories on for four years. 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:15.760 It is standard practice for ICE and TVP to transport children, 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:22.759 children in their custody without proper child seats or other restraints, right, 0:56:23.640 --> 0:56:25.880 which is you know, to my knowledge, you can get 0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:28.440 a ticket for that in some states. Right, Like if 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:30.560 you're driving a child, like you put a little two 0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:32.680 year old in the seat without a like a child 0:56:32.719 --> 0:56:35.240 seat that they have to have, Like, rightfully, you're endangering 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:38.160 that person's life. But apparently our government's doing it every day. 0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.040 Yeah, I mean the law doesn't apply to the upholders 0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:41.680 of the law. 0:56:41.640 --> 0:56:44.400 Right right, Yeah, many such cases. 0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:46.680 Many such cases which I'm about to explain more. 0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:48.839 Yeah, yeah, let's learn some more. 0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:51.920 So these ice flights, you know, most of these are 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:55.280 happening on larger jets A three twenties owing seven thirty 0:56:55.280 --> 0:57:00.000 sevens inside the cabin. REPUBLICA has done some really good 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.400 reporting on this from April. There's another outlet called Capitol 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:06.680 and Maine that also did a terrific story in twenty 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:10.759 twenty one, and the University of Washington also has a 0:57:10.760 --> 0:57:14.200 lot of research and information on what it's like inside 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:17.800 the cabin of these planes. And you know, as a 0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:24.800 former flight attendant, I find it fucking disgusting and really unsafe. 0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:27.640 Flight attendants on these flights are not allowed to look 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:31.360 at or speak to migrant passengers. They aren't allowed to 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:34.800 serve them food or water. All of the migrants on 0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:39.520 these flights are shackled wrist to ankles, and some of them, 0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:43.120 if they're allowed or distressed or just annoying, the ice 0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:47.480 guarts are wrapped in restraint blankets and harnesses and have 0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:51.520 hoods put over their faces. Just this morning, JJ and DC, 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:54.880 one of the ice air trackers on Blue Sky, posted 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:59.000 a video of a migrant passenger in a hood being 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:03.160 loaded onto a Vello jet in Seattle and he's being 0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:06.640 pushed by three ice guards and falls to the ground 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:09.120 face first and then they just sort of man handle 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:10.240 him back up the stairs. 0:58:10.920 --> 0:58:11.400 Yeah. 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:15.200 So, you know, as a former flight attendant, I just 0:58:15.240 --> 0:58:17.480 want to say, in the event of an emergency, how 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:20.240 the fuck is a flight attendant supposed to evacuate the 0:58:20.280 --> 0:58:24.400 passengers in ninety seconds when their seat belts are getting 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:27.240 tangled in their handcuffs and all they can do is 0:58:27.320 --> 0:58:31.320 shuffle down the aisle when they can't see because they 0:58:31.320 --> 0:58:34.760 have a hood over their head. If the cabin loses pressure, 0:58:35.040 --> 0:58:37.840 how can they reach up for their oxygen masks when 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:41.080 their handcuffs are attached by a chain to their leg irons. 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:44.600 How are they going to get the mask on themselves 0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:47.080 if they're wearing a hood? How are they going to 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:50.120 get their life fests on when they can't reach back 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:53.480 to wrap the strap around their waists? And these emergencies 0:58:53.520 --> 0:58:58.680 are not theoretical. We know from court filings that between 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:02.480 twenty fourteen and twenty twenty one there were six emergency 0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:06.840 evacuations of ice air flights. Of those incidents, the evacuation 0:59:07.000 --> 0:59:10.040 times of only two are known, and they took two 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:13.640 and a half minutes and seven minutes. And to be clear, 0:59:13.680 --> 0:59:17.040 we only know about those evacuations because of lawsuits. So 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:20.720 there may very well have been more evacuations since twenty 0:59:20.760 --> 0:59:22.800 twenty one and we just don't know about it. 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:26.280 Yeah, I mean it's likely right, like the Biden administration 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:30.040 did it, especially when they were deporting Haitian people like 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:32.320 huge numbers of flights. 0:59:32.040 --> 0:59:36.560 Right until May and June September twenty one, when Biden 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:40.040 did the Haitian mass deportation. That was the highest amount 0:59:40.120 --> 0:59:43.960 of deportations that witness at the border has recorded. 0:59:44.680 --> 0:59:47.919 Yeah. That was also the last time I was able 0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:52.919 to write about Biden's administration policy nbc BA. I think 0:59:52.960 --> 0:59:56.720 I crossed the line saying something mean about Uncle Joe. 0:59:56.960 --> 0:59:57.240 Yeah. 0:59:58.160 --> 1:00:00.440 Yeah, but we should be very clip. This has been 1:00:00.480 --> 1:00:01.440 a bipartisan thing. 1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:05.240 Oh yes, oh yes. So on each of these flights 1:00:05.320 --> 1:00:08.760 there is generally one or two ICE officials and at 1:00:08.840 --> 1:00:15.400 least fifteen ICE contracted guards. Migrant passengers have reported being verbally, 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:20.040 physically and sexually abused by these guards, and flight attendants 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:23.520 on board have no power to stop them. In twenty seventeen, 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:28.920 ninety two migrant passengers traveling from the US to Ethiopia 1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:33.280 were left shackled on a plane in the car Senegal 1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:36.960 for twenty three hours because the crew timed out. They 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:41.560 were kicked, dragged, tied up, threatened by ICE guards, and 1:00:41.640 --> 1:00:46.880 when the labs filled up, they soiled themselves. Flight attendants 1:00:46.960 --> 1:00:52.320 report that the guards on these flights regularly ignore their 1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:55.880 safety commands. And will even you know, try and nark 1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:59.480 on them. They'll complain to the flight attendant's supervisors at 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:04.560 their airline when they're asking people to follow federal aviation 1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:07.280 regulations just like everyone else in America has to do. 1:01:08.040 --> 1:01:10.919 But when flight attendants have complained to the FAA about this, 1:01:11.240 --> 1:01:14.360 the FAA defers to ice. You know, this is not 1:01:14.560 --> 1:01:19.360 just a matter of like, it's disrespectful, two dangerous flight attendants. 1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:22.960 You know, this is extremely dangerous. And one of the 1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:28.920 most important parts of aviation safety is something called crew 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:32.480 resource management or CRM. This is something that all pilots 1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:35.360 and flight attendants are trained in every year and have 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.760 to retrain every year, and basically CRM boils down to 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.880 pilots need to listen to the flight attendants about safety, 1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:46.520 and flight attendants are trained to be assertive with the 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:51.080 pilots about safety. This was developed after a notorious incident 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:54.520 in the nineteen seventies where a plane was on the ground, 1:01:54.880 --> 1:01:57.640 it was filling up with smoke, and the pilot ignored 1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:01.160 flight attendants please to evacuate, you know, just for some 1:02:01.320 --> 1:02:05.320 like garden variety sexism probably, and everyone on board died 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:09.840 of smoke inhalations. Two hundred and eighty people. So after that, 1:02:10.040 --> 1:02:13.280 crews are trained every year to really flatten the hierarchies. 1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:15.160 You know, I think people think like, oh, the captain 1:02:15.200 --> 1:02:18.520 has four epaulets and the first officer has three, and 1:02:18.640 --> 1:02:19.960 you know, oh hierarchy. 1:02:20.160 --> 1:02:20.320 No. 1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:25.680 Air crews are actually very like the hierarchies are flattened 1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:30.320 intentionally on purpose. They train to flatten it across job titles, 1:02:30.360 --> 1:02:35.360 across gender education, racial cultural divides, because it is safer 1:02:35.440 --> 1:02:39.760 to fly that way. When everyone feels that, you know, 1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:43.800 they have a stake in safety and they'll be heard 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:48.160 if they say something about safety, everyone else is safer. 1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:53.160 So if you've got these ice guards stepping into the 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:57.720 middle of that, throwing their weight around, overruling flight attendants 1:02:57.720 --> 1:03:01.320 and pilots, and the FAA isn't backing them up, you 1:03:01.440 --> 1:03:04.720 have confusion about who's in power on board, you have 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:08.120 a total breakdown of CRM and so beyond just like 1:03:08.600 --> 1:03:11.880 people physically being able to get off of the planes, 1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:16.640 this is so unsafe to have this kind of environment 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:19.880 with these guards. So the last incident I want to 1:03:19.880 --> 1:03:23.760 talk about was in June seventeen. To me, this is 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:27.520 the scariest one of all of the safety incidents. There 1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:31.920 was an Ice Air emergency. This flight landed, it was 1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:34.240 filling up with smoke. This is almost just like the 1:03:34.240 --> 1:03:37.280 plane in the seventies. The flight attendants told the pilots 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:41.320 to evacuate, and the pilots ignored them. A bunch of 1:03:41.360 --> 1:03:44.520 people on board were hospitalized. We don't know how many 1:03:44.760 --> 1:03:48.160 or who, but frankly, everyone on board could have died 1:03:48.520 --> 1:03:53.000 from smoke inhalation very easily. And I really think you 1:03:53.040 --> 1:03:56.200 can point to the presence of the ICE guards here 1:03:56.640 --> 1:04:00.120 as a big factor in the failure to evacuate. That 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:01.760 is not how pilots are trained. 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:02.360 Jeez. 1:04:02.920 --> 1:04:05.920 So again, Yeah, if you're a flight attendant or a 1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:09.200 pilot and you do not want your airline to contract 1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:11.520 with Ice, now is the time to tell them. Tell 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:14.960 your union help flight attendants for Global X and a 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:18.600 Vello get jobs somewhere else. Ye, you know, do whatever 1:04:18.800 --> 1:04:21.440 you can to slow this down, because it is all 1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:24.280 about to increase if they get their way. 1:04:24.680 --> 1:04:26.880 Yeah, jeez, that is fucking bleak. 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:28.000 Yeah. 1:04:28.360 --> 1:04:31.200 Yeah, you said it's going to get bigger. Like, let's 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:34.200 talk about that, Like, can you kind of zoom out 1:04:34.240 --> 1:04:37.320 and explain Ice Air to us, and like We've talked 1:04:37.320 --> 1:04:40.120 about these small flights a lot, but like that's not 1:04:40.200 --> 1:04:41.880 the bulk of the flights that they do right. 1:04:42.000 --> 1:04:47.200 Right, So ice Air right now has twelve large jets, 1:04:47.360 --> 1:04:50.600 you know, a three twenty seven thirty sevens chartered from 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:54.480 different airlines that they're using for their deportations, and then 1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:57.200 these private jets are you know, used less for these 1:04:57.240 --> 1:05:01.280 smaller high risk deportations. They're running like thirty thirty five 1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:04.479 flights a day at this point. So May twentieth turned 1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:06.280 out to be like kind of a big day for 1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:10.240 I Air because that was the Djibouti flight. That was 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:13.800 when ats started using the Tyson call sign. It's also 1:05:13.880 --> 1:05:18.920 the day that the larger operation really just searched in activity. 1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:22.479 And you know, the other flight trackers tell me that 1:05:22.760 --> 1:05:25.400 ice Air used to take weekends and holidays off and 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:28.480 they don't do that anymore. They were deporting people on 1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:34.040 juneteenth and July fourth. In May, ice operated a record 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:37.560 number of flights, which was at least one thousand and 1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:41.480 eighty three flights that flight trackers recorded, one hundred and 1:05:41.560 --> 1:05:45.120 ninety of which were removal flights. And then the rest 1:05:45.160 --> 1:05:48.600 are like these internal shuffle flights between different ICE attention 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:52.520 centers and return trips, and then in June they set 1:05:52.560 --> 1:05:56.280 a record again with one one hundred and eighty seven flights, 1:05:56.680 --> 1:06:00.200 of which two hundred and nine were removal flights. All 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:03.040 of this data is a witness at the border dot 1:06:03.160 --> 1:06:06.280 org and it's kept by Tom Cartwright, who is a 1:06:06.320 --> 1:06:10.480 real hero. He has been tracking flights basically by himself 1:06:10.600 --> 1:06:14.160 for five and a half years, and he publishes very 1:06:14.200 --> 1:06:19.800 detailed monthly reports. And yeah, as you said earlier, you 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:22.640 know he's been tracking this through the Biden administration too, 1:06:22.680 --> 1:06:25.440 which is how we know that, you know, the Trump 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:29.560 deportation machine from the first term, you know, Biden didn't 1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:33.040 really slow it down that much, and now Trump is 1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:37.080 picking up the reins again and surging it again. So 1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:43.080 the airlines right now that are flying these larger removal 1:06:43.120 --> 1:06:47.600 flights are global X also called Global Crossing Airlines, a 1:06:47.720 --> 1:06:54.040 Velo Airlines, Eastern Air and on the international and except 1:06:54.200 --> 1:06:58.400 for ATS, who you know I talked about earlier, has 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:01.280 their own contract. All of these carriers who fly for 1:07:01.400 --> 1:07:06.600 ICE are subcontracted through a flight broker called CSI Aviation. 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:10.360 CSI Aviation signed a five year contract with the Biden 1:07:10.400 --> 1:07:14.120 administration last year that has been paused because of a 1:07:14.200 --> 1:07:18.360 lawsuit from a rival flight broker that wanted that contract. 1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:23.360 So since late February, CSI has been brokering these flights 1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:26.480 on a six month no bid contract that started at 1:07:26.560 --> 1:07:29.440 one hundred and twenty eight million dollars and was quickly 1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:32.560 doubled and then went up to two hundred and seventy 1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:34.680 four million, and then just a couple of days ago, 1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:36.600 I don't think anyone else has reported this, it was 1:07:36.680 --> 1:07:39.600 raised again to three hundred and thirty nine million dollars. 1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:42.680 So they've got about sixty million dollars left on this 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:47.320 contract for the next six weeks, and that's before the 1:07:48.240 --> 1:07:52.200 huge windfall and funding that ICE just got from Trump's 1:07:52.200 --> 1:07:55.720 big beautiful bill. The administration has said it once to 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.640 triple deportations, and right now they just don't have the 1:07:59.640 --> 1:08:04.600 airct that and DHS. On Twitter and Instagram a couple 1:08:04.640 --> 1:08:08.840 of days ago, they posted this really ghoulish meme that 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:12.240 said fire up the deportation planes, and there was like 1:08:12.280 --> 1:08:16.680 a skeleton lifting weights with a caption that said my 1:08:16.800 --> 1:08:21.400 body is a machine that turns ICE funding into mass deportations. 1:08:22.479 --> 1:08:23.439 So that's gross. 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:26.280 Yeah, that was really weird. They've been doing a lot 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:28.960 of this like post stuff right. 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:31.800 Like I said, they only have twelve jets right now, 1:08:31.880 --> 1:08:35.640 and they're flying those capacities, so they can't triple deportations 1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:40.400 unless they start bringing in more airlines. So the other 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:43.360 day I posted a call to action to flight attendants 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:46.479 and to flight attendant unions saying, you know, if you 1:08:46.560 --> 1:08:50.040 don't want your airline to do these flights, now is 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:51.240 the time to tell them. 1:08:51.439 --> 1:08:51.639 Yeah. 1:08:51.840 --> 1:08:55.280 CSI Aviation is run by a man named Alan Way 1:08:55.760 --> 1:08:59.880 and his daughter, Deborah Mastis. Alan Way is the former 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:03.439 chair of the New Mexico Republican Party. He's hosted a 1:09:03.439 --> 1:09:07.560 bunch of Trump rallies over the years. He ran unsuccessfully 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:10.960 for Senate and governor of New Mexico in the past 1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:15.120 on an anti immigrant platform, which local media at the 1:09:15.160 --> 1:09:19.120 time pointed out, you know, well, you're mostly doing deportation flights, 1:09:19.120 --> 1:09:24.040 so that would really be enriching yourself. His daughter, Deborah Masis, 1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:27.840 was one of the fake electors in New Mexico during 1:09:27.920 --> 1:09:28.960 the twenty twenty election. 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:31.120 Wow Yeah. 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:34.679 She was subpoenaed by the House committee investigating the January 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:39.240 sixth insurrection and the New Mexico State Attorney General's office 1:09:39.280 --> 1:09:43.760 investigated her. Eventually, they're not press charges because she and 1:09:43.800 --> 1:09:47.720 the other fake electors claimed they didn't know they're fake 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:51.680 certifications were going to be used for anything illegal. And 1:09:51.760 --> 1:09:54.839 the Project on Government Oversight has some pretty good reporting 1:09:54.920 --> 1:09:57.200 on CSI aviation. If you want to see. 1:09:57.000 --> 1:10:02.440 That, yeah, it will put it in this show notes like, yeah, insane, 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:06.719 Like this whole thing is just like complete. I would 1:10:06.720 --> 1:10:08.840 watch or look at some of the footage from inside 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:12.120 deportation flights because it is inhumane. 1:10:12.280 --> 1:10:17.320 It's yeah. I mean, I hope that any flight attendants 1:10:17.360 --> 1:10:19.840 who are forced to work these flights can find a 1:10:19.840 --> 1:10:23.479 way to quit. But if they can't quit for financial reasons, 1:10:23.520 --> 1:10:27.000 because all of these people are you know, very underpaid, 1:10:29.040 --> 1:10:32.439 you know, I hope that they can provide us with 1:10:32.520 --> 1:10:36.360 more information about what is going on inside these flights. 1:10:36.600 --> 1:10:39.320 Yeah, definitely, that will be at least give people a 1:10:39.400 --> 1:10:41.880 chance to see what their tax dollars are being spent on. 1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:42.760 Yeah. 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:45.440 I mean one of the things that I've been thinking about, 1:10:45.880 --> 1:10:48.640 you know, terrorism is like a really loaded word that 1:10:48.680 --> 1:10:51.920 gets misused a lot against black and brown people, But 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:57.200 I think that's the right word for all of these removals. 1:10:57.280 --> 1:11:03.320 Because they're random, they're violent, they're getting civilians for political purpose, 1:11:04.000 --> 1:11:09.600 and they're designed to frighten the larger population potential victims. 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:16.040 Right the Trump administration is trying to scare all undocumented 1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:19.120 immigrants and anyone adjacent to them, since you know, a 1:11:19.160 --> 1:11:21.080 lot of citizens are being arrested too. 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:24.599 Yeah, or green cardholders, people with buckets of documents are 1:11:24.600 --> 1:11:26.799 being deported a rendition right. 1:11:26.640 --> 1:11:29.200 Now, and they're saying, you know, they're trying to make 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:32.800 them so scared that if they don't self deport they 1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:35.840 could end up in South Sudan, they could end up 1:11:35.840 --> 1:11:40.440 in Mauritania. You know, that's what this policy is designed 1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:44.120 to do, is to terrorize the people of this country. 1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:45.080 Yeah. 1:11:45.120 --> 1:11:50.639 Absolutely, it's pretty bleak. We have an encrypted email address, 1:11:50.720 --> 1:11:54.839 so if you are I guess a deportation flight attendant 1:11:54.920 --> 1:11:57.880 and you would like to talk to someone, I can 1:11:57.920 --> 1:11:59.720 pasidoron to give you in two or you might have 1:11:59.720 --> 1:12:01.720 you any crypted email address and you can plug it 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:02.040 if you do. 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:05.160 Yeah, you can definitely leak to me on signal. 1:12:05.479 --> 1:12:11.160 Okay, yeah, nice. We have cool zone tips at ProtonMail 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:13.720 dot com or cool Zone tips at proton dot me. 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:17.040 I believe they both work. It's only encrypted if the 1:12:17.080 --> 1:12:20.000 address that it's sent from is also encrypted. So in 1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:21.880 this instance you would need a proton mail or you 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:24.760 can cook up your own encryption. Yeah, that would be 1:12:25.439 --> 1:12:27.040 the way to get in touch if you want to 1:12:27.040 --> 1:12:31.280 get in touch. This this just fucking sucks, like and 1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:33.599 there's going to be so much more of it in 1:12:33.640 --> 1:12:36.840 the next couple of years with this budget, Like this 1:12:36.880 --> 1:12:40.240 is going to become well it already isn't everyday thing. 1:12:40.680 --> 1:12:42.160 This is going to become even more common. 1:12:42.200 --> 1:12:42.360 I know. 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:45.320 They're also like they're doing some weird shuffle to avoid 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:47.240 sanctions with Venezuelan Airlines. 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:52.000 Right, yeah, they fly I believe it is, to Honduras, 1:12:52.080 --> 1:12:56.200 and then Venezuela flies their own plane to Honduras to 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:56.760 pick them up. 1:12:57.200 --> 1:12:59.760 Right yeah cool, I'm sure to sup. I have a 1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:01.960 great time. Want to get back to Venezuela. And in 1:13:02.080 --> 1:13:05.640 Venezuela's also offering humanitarian flights for a citizens who are 1:13:05.640 --> 1:13:09.320 stuck in Mexico right now, So like, if people want 1:13:09.320 --> 1:13:11.080 to do something about this, what can they do? 1:13:11.920 --> 1:13:15.040 The first thing you can do is boycott Avello Airlines. 1:13:15.040 --> 1:13:19.479 They are commercial airlines, so don't fly with them. You 1:13:19.520 --> 1:13:22.360 can write to the airlines you use regularly right now 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:26.760 and tell them that if they are considering contracting with 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:30.479 ICE not to that you will boycott them too. You 1:13:30.520 --> 1:13:33.400 can complain to the FAA about the safety issues on 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:36.439 these flights. I doubt that they'll do anything, but I 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:39.800 think there's value in saying something anyway. If you have 1:13:39.880 --> 1:13:44.200 contacts in aviation or in any of the countries that 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:47.200 these people are being sent to, and you find something out, 1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.800 you can leak to me on signal. And if you 1:13:49.840 --> 1:13:52.720 work in aviation, tell your airline and your union right 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:55.960 now that you are not going to operate these flights. 1:13:56.320 --> 1:13:59.440 And if you want to get started tracking flights yourself, 1:13:59.640 --> 1:14:02.839 we need a lot of help, especially in the overnight hours. 1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:06.479 A good first step is to go to Globe dot 1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:11.240 adsb exchange dot com and in the general search window 1:14:11.520 --> 1:14:12.479 type Tyson. 1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:15.599 You've been doing really, really great reporting on this, and 1:14:15.640 --> 1:14:17.880 I'm sure people want to continue to follow it. It 1:14:18.000 --> 1:14:21.840 is a shame that other outlets are not running it. 1:14:21.840 --> 1:14:23.160 But God bless them. 1:14:23.240 --> 1:14:26.599 Yeah, just try. 1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:29.200 Out there if you want to know what James is 1:14:29.200 --> 1:14:32.320 talking about. There's a brief explanation at the end of 1:14:32.520 --> 1:14:35.160 one of my stories that I've written recently at hard 1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:38.120 g History dot ghost dot io. I have a couple 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:43.120 stories there about the recent flights to Africa, and you 1:14:43.160 --> 1:14:45.639 can read the bottom and you'll find out what James 1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:46.160 is talking about. 1:14:46.280 --> 1:14:52.360 Yeah, it's a little teaser for you, right, go get 1:14:52.400 --> 1:14:55.519 the t Yeah, Okay, thank you for joining us. I'm 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:57.479 sure we'll hear from you again soon. 1:14:57.880 --> 1:14:58.559 Thank you, James. 1:15:18.000 --> 1:15:21.800 It it could happen here, the podcast about I don't know 1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:24.720 how am I supposed to do the pivot from like. 1:15:25.000 --> 1:15:28.360 It the Stephen King novel, which could at any point 1:15:28.479 --> 1:15:30.040 happen in a place where you are. 1:15:30.360 --> 1:15:33.000 I was trying to get to the podcast coming to 1:15:33.080 --> 1:15:35.719 you not quite live from a place where a bunch 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:38.080 of just masked guys are driving people off the street. 1:15:38.080 --> 1:15:40.320 But that works too, Stephen. 1:15:40.000 --> 1:15:42.880 King, good pivot. Haven't done that one yet. I'm your host, 1:15:42.920 --> 1:15:45.439 Miya Wong. With me is James Stout, and we're also 1:15:45.560 --> 1:15:50.320 joined by the wonderful freelance journalists melbuer At a fucking Christ. 1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:54.280 Holy shit. 1:15:54.880 --> 1:15:58.680 Yeah, so that happened simultaneously as I inhaled and like 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:01.439 apparently a piece of popcor were and just like fucking 1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:03.760 rail gunned into the back of my throat. 1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:04.960 Relief for this. 1:16:05.120 --> 1:16:10.240 All professionals here. 1:16:11.560 --> 1:16:17.960 This is going great. Is journalist John Pactor carpentual. Good lord, 1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:19.519 I'm so. 1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:21.960 Good at my job. So what we're gonna be talking 1:16:22.120 --> 1:16:27.640 about is the continued resistance to ice and ice actions 1:16:27.680 --> 1:16:30.960 in LA and in sort of broader parts of California 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:34.960 as stuff has shifted and intensified. So both of you two, 1:16:34.960 --> 1:16:35.799 welcome to the show. 1:16:36.280 --> 1:16:38.439 Glad to be here, Happy to be here. 1:16:39.400 --> 1:16:41.800 So I think the place I want to start is, 1:16:41.880 --> 1:16:44.320 could you give people just kind of a brief reminder 1:16:44.560 --> 1:16:48.439 of what happened during that sort of big flare up 1:16:48.720 --> 1:16:52.559 several weeks ago of protests and ice actions in LA. 1:16:53.040 --> 1:16:54.640 I can probably speak a little bit more to that. 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:59.880 So as part of the federal immigration raids that Donald 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:04.360 from promise, Los Angeles was one of the first targets 1:17:04.360 --> 1:17:11.120 of pretty large scale and pretty frankly random immigration raids. 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:13.360 So it started in early June where you started to 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:19.400 see you know, massed agents without oftentimes badges or names 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:22.559 on their badges or sometimes even serial numbers. First they 1:17:22.600 --> 1:17:26.200 started in home depots areas like that, just sort of 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:29.880 running around parking lots, tackling people and throwing them into 1:17:29.880 --> 1:17:35.720 buses pretty understandably, Los Angelinos started to protest, and they 1:17:35.720 --> 1:17:40.000 started to protest pretty hard, and that happened for a 1:17:40.040 --> 1:17:43.680 few weeks. Eventually the Marines in the National Guard were 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:49.479 both deployed to federal buildings more large scale protests, and 1:17:50.000 --> 1:17:52.080 that sort of brings us to the last few weeks, 1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:53.880 which I think mel can probably speak to. 1:17:54.760 --> 1:17:57.960 Yeah, so, you know, the National Guard and the Marines 1:17:58.000 --> 1:18:03.879 were deployed like mid right, and we kind of saw 1:18:03.960 --> 1:18:06.839 a little bit of petering out of like the mass 1:18:06.880 --> 1:18:10.439 protests that we saw at the beginning of June. But 1:18:10.800 --> 1:18:15.040 still there were a number of organizations and groups that 1:18:15.120 --> 1:18:18.759 were trying to keep tabs on the sort of roving 1:18:18.840 --> 1:18:22.280 patrols that were happening in Los Angeles throughout the month 1:18:22.360 --> 1:18:26.719 of June and early July. So these groups were taking 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:30.920 in tips and trying to maintain a sort of map 1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:37.160 of rapid response locations to the ice detainments, kidnappings, suspension 1:18:37.200 --> 1:18:42.000 of constitutional rights, if you will. And so what we 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.679 saw was, you know, a good number of weeks of 1:18:45.960 --> 1:18:50.080 social media sort of proliferating these posts about where ice 1:18:50.080 --> 1:18:53.400 patrols had gone. And because the you know, and this 1:18:53.439 --> 1:18:55.960 is something that organizations have spoken to in the last 1:18:56.000 --> 1:19:00.320 couple of weeks. But because they're pounder, surveillance, as you 1:19:00.320 --> 1:19:04.599 could say, by these organizations was pretty successful. The sort 1:19:04.600 --> 1:19:09.120 of ice patrols began to not happen throughout the later 1:19:09.160 --> 1:19:09.639 half of the day. 1:19:09.640 --> 1:19:11.080 They would happen early in the morning. 1:19:11.200 --> 1:19:14.320 They would you know, hit a location, grab as many 1:19:14.320 --> 1:19:16.320 people as possible, pull them. 1:19:16.240 --> 1:19:18.160 Into the van, and take them away. 1:19:18.360 --> 1:19:21.519 And they had gotten it down to something like less 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:24.439 than ten minutes that they were on scene, and it 1:19:24.479 --> 1:19:26.479 made it a little bit difficult for folks to be 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:31.200 able to respond forcefully to those events. And they kept 1:19:31.240 --> 1:19:36.799 it to parking lots, car washes, you know, businesses, random 1:19:36.840 --> 1:19:41.080 street vendors, places that they could enter quickly and leave quickly. 1:19:41.880 --> 1:19:44.320 We saw in the middle of June and the later 1:19:44.360 --> 1:19:47.680 half of the month that if they were trying to 1:19:47.760 --> 1:19:50.040 execute warrens, for example, in a neighborhood, they would be 1:19:50.040 --> 1:19:53.360 blocked in almost immediately by neighbors. So you can see 1:19:53.400 --> 1:19:58.240 that there was a pretty consistent response by Angelino's across 1:19:58.280 --> 1:19:59.280 the board as. 1:19:59.240 --> 1:19:59.920 Much as they could. 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.240 And while this was happening, there was also a pretty 1:20:03.240 --> 1:20:06.200 dedicated group of individuals who were spending a lot of 1:20:06.240 --> 1:20:09.960 time outside the Mentro Detention Center downtown in downtown LA, 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:13.240 which is where many of these vans were going in 1:20:13.280 --> 1:20:17.200 and out of before they were taking detainees elsewhere. Yeah, 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:19.960 so you know, across the board, what we've seen is 1:20:20.360 --> 1:20:23.320 quite a bit of organizing. Much of this organizing is 1:20:23.400 --> 1:20:26.360 decades in the making, especially in Los Angeles, but also 1:20:26.400 --> 1:20:29.639 in places like Ventura County and a little bit up 1:20:29.720 --> 1:20:32.599 north where you see the same kind of work that's 1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:38.080 being done. In the later half of the month, early July, 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:42.240 I should say, we began to see some pretty intense 1:20:43.160 --> 1:20:49.000 movements by Border Patrol, most notably in MacArthur Park on 1:20:49.160 --> 1:20:54.719 July eighth, I believe, and in the cama Rio Oxynard area, 1:20:55.240 --> 1:20:57.599 which is right on the border of Venture County and 1:20:58.160 --> 1:21:02.519 other county name escapes me at to cannabis farms that 1:21:02.640 --> 1:21:03.840 next week, and. 1:21:03.800 --> 1:21:06.720 Those were large scale operations. 1:21:07.360 --> 1:21:11.000 A lot of militarized Border Patrol National Guard I believe 1:21:11.040 --> 1:21:15.000 helped with both of those operations as well, and also 1:21:15.360 --> 1:21:20.040 saw some pretty intense community response to those. 1:21:20.400 --> 1:21:22.800 So, Sean, you mentioned you wanted to talk a little 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:25.400 more about the organizing right the way people that are 1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:27.960 organized to try and kind of resist this, or at 1:21:28.040 --> 1:21:29.160 least like do what they could. 1:21:29.960 --> 1:21:31.920 One of the things that I think is interesting, this 1:21:32.000 --> 1:21:36.240 isn't unique to Los Angeles. We're seeing groups organize what 1:21:36.280 --> 1:21:39.960 I've been hearing called megri patrols here in Los Angeles. 1:21:40.080 --> 1:21:42.920 There's also pretty heavy touch of this from San Diego. 1:21:43.200 --> 1:21:44.760 One of the things that I thought was really really 1:21:44.760 --> 1:21:50.280 interesting was in Los Angeles has been preparing for a 1:21:50.280 --> 1:21:53.479 moment like this since the late sixties. Frankly, you know, 1:21:53.640 --> 1:21:57.360 you have groups that have a pretty solid through line 1:21:57.400 --> 1:21:59.960 since the mid sixties at the dawn of the Chicano movement, 1:22:00.560 --> 1:22:04.080 and these are groups that already have experience with large 1:22:04.080 --> 1:22:07.719 scale attainments. Not throughout the city like we were seeing 1:22:08.000 --> 1:22:14.240 the last few weeks, but there's this really impressive level 1:22:14.240 --> 1:22:18.360 of organization. Where I saw a detainment in Boyle Heights 1:22:18.520 --> 1:22:22.040 of a gentleman who was accused of. 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:22.280 Getting a police officer. 1:22:22.840 --> 1:22:26.000 Within I think three minutes of them arriving, not only 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:28.680 was there one or two people, but there was like 1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:33.519 fifteen people already onseen Boyle Heights is pretty singular in 1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:36.960 its preparation. However, it was not uncommon. I mean in 1:22:37.040 --> 1:22:40.799 MacArthur Park. There was a detainment of a few people 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:43.720 who were walking down the street. I was maybe eight 1:22:43.760 --> 1:22:45.680 minutes away when I heard about the raid. There was 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:49.320 already like ten people there, including a college professor, including 1:22:49.840 --> 1:22:52.760 members of Union del Barrow and Attendance Union. I have 1:22:52.800 --> 1:22:55.120 a bit of a theory that I don't know if 1:22:56.080 --> 1:23:00.000 Los Angeles was chosen because they wanted to prove a point. 1:23:00.200 --> 1:23:03.040 And there is a part of me that wonders seeing 1:23:04.200 --> 1:23:08.000 how quickly people are responding to these raids. There's a 1:23:08.040 --> 1:23:10.040 part of me that wonders at that point was even made. 1:23:10.280 --> 1:23:13.760 I think the government's actions can be understood in like 1:23:14.200 --> 1:23:16.559 owning the libs and like if your Facebook uncle got 1:23:16.600 --> 1:23:19.320 to make government policy, it wouldn't look that different from this. 1:23:19.400 --> 1:23:22.680 So I think that was certainly like the point early on, 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:24.760 and they'd have detained a lot of people in LA Like, 1:23:24.800 --> 1:23:27.840 but yeah, they're organizing. You have very entrenched work in 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:31.040 class communities, even going back way before the sixties, right, 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:32.920 like if we look at the zoot suit, right, if 1:23:32.960 --> 1:23:35.200 we look at the Brassero program and the attempts to 1:23:35.240 --> 1:23:38.160 expel people after that, Like if we look at United 1:23:38.200 --> 1:23:41.639 farm Workers, like across LA County, we have a long 1:23:41.920 --> 1:23:45.880 history of organizing, so like it's a hard target for 1:23:45.960 --> 1:23:46.599 them for sure. 1:23:47.360 --> 1:23:50.840 And I think it's really interesting listening to YouTube talk 1:23:50.880 --> 1:23:53.360 about this matches a lot of what I was hearing 1:23:53.400 --> 1:23:57.080 about the way that it all kind of decentralized in 1:23:57.120 --> 1:24:00.040 between sort of May and June. And the thing that 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:03.640 reminds me of really interestingly is what was happening to 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:06.519 sort of other protest movements but reversed. You know, if 1:24:06.520 --> 1:24:08.160 you look at like the Pala Side encampments right where 1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:09.680 it's okay, you put a bunch of people in one 1:24:09.680 --> 1:24:12.479 spot and then they all get crushed because the police 1:24:12.479 --> 1:24:15.519 can bring overwhelming numbers. And it feels like the raid 1:24:15.560 --> 1:24:17.879 response has almost been the reverse of that, where ices 1:24:17.920 --> 1:24:20.120 had to adopt, at least in that period, had to 1:24:20.160 --> 1:24:22.720 adopt the sort of hyper bolbile in and out like 1:24:22.880 --> 1:24:26.519 rapid strike kind of thing, like because they were suddenly 1:24:26.520 --> 1:24:29.240 faced with a scenario where like if they tried to 1:24:29.280 --> 1:24:31.759 like stay in mass in an area, it went really 1:24:31.800 --> 1:24:34.320 badly for them. And that's absolutely fascinating to me. 1:24:34.960 --> 1:24:36.800 One of the things that I think is interesting is 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:40.160 the first few days you saw a pretty heavy amount 1:24:40.160 --> 1:24:43.080 of raids sort of in the Central Courridor near downtown 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:48.240 or you know, near East Hollywood, things like that, and 1:24:48.320 --> 1:24:52.240 those were extremely heavily protested. You know, there was a 1:24:52.320 --> 1:24:54.679 protest sort of the first day of when the raids 1:24:55.160 --> 1:24:58.800 really really started in the garment districts or in the 1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:02.639 fashion district excuse me. Within minutes there was like seventy 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:06.600 five people there and you know, they were shouting. You know, 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:10.040 they were there before all of the vehicles for federal 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:12.519 agents were actually there. That's the one where you know, 1:25:12.560 --> 1:25:15.840 you saw quite a bit of Union folks who arrive 1:25:16.240 --> 1:25:18.400 extremely quickly, you know. And one of the other things 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:20.400 that I think is really interesting about this organizing is 1:25:20.439 --> 1:25:24.599 you're also seeing regular people who I don't know if 1:25:24.600 --> 1:25:29.799 they normally would organize something where they're sort of facing 1:25:29.840 --> 1:25:31.679 off with federal agents. 1:25:32.200 --> 1:25:33.200 You're starting to see. 1:25:33.000 --> 1:25:36.160 Them mobilized in a way that I don't know if 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:37.880 you would normally see them. You know, one of the 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:40.519 ladies that I spoke to as part of the rapid 1:25:40.560 --> 1:25:46.240 Response sort of network is a teacher. And I talked 1:25:46.240 --> 1:25:48.720 to her and I was like, hey, like, why do 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:51.439 you do this? And she told me She's like, look 1:25:51.520 --> 1:25:54.280 like I teach in a heavily immigrant community. My job 1:25:54.360 --> 1:25:58.719 is to take care of these kids, and unfortunately now 1:25:59.360 --> 1:26:02.280 part of that is driving around the neighborhood and looking 1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:05.400 for white vans filled with people wearing masks. 1:26:06.800 --> 1:26:11.080 That's both incredibly moving and beautiful and also one of 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:14.000 the most hideous things I've ever heard in my entire life. 1:26:15.000 --> 1:26:17.840 There were quite a few teachers at the SEIU rally 1:26:18.080 --> 1:26:20.360 which was on the ninth of June, which was with 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:25.599 David Wuerta, the president of the SCIU, was detained, I guess, 1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:28.719 allegedly for obstructing federal agents are correctly. 1:26:29.040 --> 1:26:29.200 Yeah. 1:26:29.240 --> 1:26:32.879 I met a lot of people who were older who 1:26:33.479 --> 1:26:36.200 I think were like soidedly liberal in their politics, but 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:39.320 not particularly radical, And it was a really interesting combination 1:26:39.400 --> 1:26:44.080 of these older people who were outraged and somewhat inexperienced 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:47.439 in street politics and younger people who were outraged and 1:26:47.520 --> 1:26:51.639 somewhat inexperienced in street politics. Like it wasn't the same 1:26:51.760 --> 1:26:55.519 crowd that you see the people who I'd seen in 1:26:55.560 --> 1:26:58.720 twenty twenty when I covered stuff in La. Haven't really 1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:01.040 covered much of the Palestine stuff in LA, but a 1:27:01.040 --> 1:27:04.719 lot of the people who I interviewed in June were 1:27:05.720 --> 1:27:09.280 citizen children of non citizen parents, and like they felt 1:27:09.280 --> 1:27:11.479 like an obligation on behalf of their community and their 1:27:11.520 --> 1:27:14.599 family to show up, And like it was really moving 1:27:14.640 --> 1:27:17.840 to see people who were clearly very afraid by the 1:27:17.880 --> 1:27:22.960 third night of like unhinged state violence. Right, Like Sean 1:27:23.040 --> 1:27:25.360 was there too about the amount of like les lethal's 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:28.720 that were just being discharged by the third night, Like 1:27:29.080 --> 1:27:31.400 the protest was split up, and so was the policing. 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:33.800 Like there wasn't really ever a point where all the 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:36.599 protesters were able to get together because the police had 1:27:36.600 --> 1:27:39.200 so many roads bucked off and like you were just 1:27:39.200 --> 1:27:41.160 turned down the street and they'd be firing Leslie thought 1:27:41.200 --> 1:27:42.800 you'd turned down the street and there's tear gas. You 1:27:42.840 --> 1:27:45.400 turned down the street and there's pepper balls like all 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:47.880 over downtown LA. And these people were very afraid, but 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:50.519 they still kept coming out, And that was quite like 1:27:50.640 --> 1:27:51.360 inspiring to me. 1:27:52.320 --> 1:27:55.840 Yeah, And I mean, I think that's the situation that 1:27:55.960 --> 1:27:58.360 we're in right where you know, the sort of the 1:27:58.439 --> 1:28:02.320 fear and the horror has to is being forced to 1:28:02.320 --> 1:28:04.920 give way to action because the only alternative to that 1:28:05.160 --> 1:28:07.439 is just watching them take your family and take your 1:28:07.439 --> 1:28:09.519 neighbors and taking the people you love. The Carabell until 1:28:09.520 --> 1:28:12.400 one day they take you and it doesn't have to 1:28:12.400 --> 1:28:13.200 get to there. 1:28:14.439 --> 1:28:15.800 Maybe you know what else is going to take you, 1:28:16.080 --> 1:28:20.080 God specifically take money from your wallet. It's these incredible 1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:22.240 products and services which we're lucky enough to be able 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:23.200 to share with our listeners. 1:28:27.080 --> 1:28:27.759 We are back. 1:28:27.920 --> 1:28:31.040 I notably did not want to do an actual pivot there, 1:28:31.120 --> 1:28:32.040 but we're back. 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:35.160 I think, you know, speaking on sort of the climate 1:28:35.360 --> 1:28:40.120 of Los Angeles and at the same time this sort 1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:45.880 of insistent joy that Los Angeles has. There's a very 1:28:45.880 --> 1:28:48.759 famous song most of your listeners may have heard it, Lachona, 1:28:49.040 --> 1:28:52.680 which is basically just a song about a woman who 1:28:52.720 --> 1:28:56.040 won't listen to her husband and gets drunk, and you 1:28:56.120 --> 1:28:59.599 see it at every single protest in Los Angeles involving 1:28:59.600 --> 1:29:05.240 immigrant rites. And one of the interesting things about it 1:29:05.280 --> 1:29:09.000 is multiple times at the protests, I would see this 1:29:09.960 --> 1:29:13.280 beginning of dancing to La Chona, and then multiple times 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:15.960 it would be broken up. I think this was the 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:20.879 thirteenth mid June. And eventually it got to a point 1:29:20.920 --> 1:29:24.800 where I remember saying, you know, these protesters seem to 1:29:24.840 --> 1:29:27.960 really want to listen to this song, and I have 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:31.360 a feeling it's going to end up being played in 1:29:31.360 --> 1:29:33.800 a weird spot. What ended up happening is by the 1:29:33.880 --> 1:29:35.240 end of it, I saw a bunch of people with 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:38.800 like these gnarly bruises all over their body, you know, 1:29:38.880 --> 1:29:42.280 welts from less Lethal's fire, in the middle of the street, 1:29:43.360 --> 1:29:47.960 dancing to La Chona. They finally got their chance, and 1:29:48.040 --> 1:29:51.040 you know, it's whenever the Dodgers win. This speaks to 1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:53.400 sort of the specific culture of Los Angeles. I have 1:29:53.520 --> 1:29:56.880 seen more fires and people dancing around them to that 1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:01.519 song than any other song, including protests, so throughout the 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:02.479 last five years. 1:30:03.439 --> 1:30:04.599 But there's also you know. 1:30:04.600 --> 1:30:08.519 I live in Boyle Heights and one of the really 1:30:08.520 --> 1:30:11.960 interesting and kind of horrific things is I had sort 1:30:12.000 --> 1:30:15.519 of been cued up and trained to listen for the 1:30:15.560 --> 1:30:18.560 ice Cream Man, both the actual van and there's a 1:30:18.600 --> 1:30:22.240 guy that does Rospatos who just walks down the street 1:30:22.360 --> 1:30:25.360 honks a bicycle horn. And I am an actual child, 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:27.800 and every time I heard that bicycle horn, just like 1:30:27.840 --> 1:30:29.479 I'm sick. It would just like run out with a 1:30:29.520 --> 1:30:34.000 lot of cash and by Rospatos, And for about a 1:30:34.000 --> 1:30:37.559 week you didn't hear him. He didn't A lot of 1:30:37.560 --> 1:30:40.080 businesses were closed and then After about a week he 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:43.320 started to see younger people that looked kind of like 1:30:43.400 --> 1:30:45.719 the guy that used to do it, you know, usually 1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:48.440 the son or the daughter sort of working for their parents. 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:51.160 Now we're starting to see, you know, a little bit 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:54.200 of a more of a return to regularity. But you know, 1:30:54.240 --> 1:30:56.760 one of the things that was really interesting about all 1:30:56.760 --> 1:30:59.040 this organizing is, you know, you have unions. You also 1:30:59.080 --> 1:31:01.920 have like former politicians and things like that. You know, 1:31:01.920 --> 1:31:05.559 I got an email from a former city councilman with 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:10.040 the subject line that just said, it is happening here. Yeah, 1:31:10.760 --> 1:31:15.160 and I remember thinking that's that's probably not good. 1:31:16.680 --> 1:31:21.280 Yeah, that's not great talking of it is happening. I 1:31:21.280 --> 1:31:23.559 think both the NML you were there, you went up 1:31:23.600 --> 1:31:26.880 to Camario right the raid on the cannabis grow operation 1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:30.160 and subsequent stand up that was just like a different 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:35.160 scene from like DTLA. Can you explain if people aren't familiar, 1:31:35.160 --> 1:31:38.360 maybe very briefly explain the operation and the consequences. 1:31:40.280 --> 1:31:44.479 So Sean and I just sat in federal court for 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:48.759 five hours prior to that in downtown LA, where federal 1:31:48.840 --> 1:31:51.639 judge was listening to arguments being made in the hopes 1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:53.800 of getting a temporary restraining order on the grounds that 1:31:53.800 --> 1:31:59.120 these roving patrols in Los Angeles were unconstitutional, and we 1:31:59.200 --> 1:32:02.360 left court, and you know, one of our sources who 1:32:02.439 --> 1:32:05.599 was also there at the Federal courthouse was talking about 1:32:05.600 --> 1:32:09.520 how they had heard about this raid happening in Cambrio 1:32:09.640 --> 1:32:13.880 and Carpenteria, two different cannabis grow houses, and you know, 1:32:13.920 --> 1:32:16.120 by the time he left, it had been happening for 1:32:17.000 --> 1:32:21.160 five hours at that point, so they, under a warrant, 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:24.880 had rated both of these cannabis co operations, which are 1:32:25.080 --> 1:32:28.120 you know, quite large. We're talking hundreds of workers who 1:32:28.120 --> 1:32:32.240 work in these processing centers and greenhouses and such. And 1:32:32.720 --> 1:32:36.920 local organizers, particularly organizers with VC Defensa, which is in 1:32:37.000 --> 1:32:40.759 Ventura County, who has been doing really successful organizing following 1:32:41.520 --> 1:32:44.160 ice vehicles wherever they go to try and head off 1:32:44.600 --> 1:32:45.760 these roving patrols. 1:32:45.800 --> 1:32:47.639 They've really thrown a wrench in things up there. 1:32:48.120 --> 1:32:50.439 One of the organizers was following one of these border 1:32:50.479 --> 1:32:54.000 patrol vehicles and watched as the border patrol vehicle drove 1:32:54.280 --> 1:32:57.600 past the gates of a military base out there, and 1:32:57.640 --> 1:32:59.639 then kind of got an idea that, Okay, something big 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:00.280 is happening. 1:33:00.439 --> 1:33:02.280 This is not normal, Like this is not. 1:33:02.320 --> 1:33:04.679 Usually what happens when we follow these cars usually they're 1:33:04.720 --> 1:33:07.760 going into neighborhood or things of that nature. And so 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:12.000 almost immediately these groups were organizing to try and see 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:15.200 where these cars, armored vehicles were going, and they hit 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:18.080 two different locations. One of the locations, the one in 1:33:18.160 --> 1:33:21.320 came Rio, just outside of is kind of in the 1:33:21.320 --> 1:33:22.200 middle of nowhere. 1:33:22.439 --> 1:33:24.679 It's flanked on all sides with farm fields. 1:33:24.800 --> 1:33:27.280 You know, there's dirt highways and you know, two lane 1:33:27.320 --> 1:33:28.240 highways that kind. 1:33:28.080 --> 1:33:29.360 Of bisect everything. 1:33:30.040 --> 1:33:33.280 And what they did when they started this raid is 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:36.920 they blocked off the roads leading into and out of 1:33:37.080 --> 1:33:43.720 this particular greenhouse, right and so they had checkpoints like roadblocks, 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:47.240 barricades at like four or five different locations at these 1:33:47.320 --> 1:33:53.320 intersections around the greenhouse, and at every single barricade there 1:33:53.320 --> 1:33:57.040 were people. So you know, there were these sort of 1:33:57.080 --> 1:34:03.280 like face offs between heavily militarized border patrol agents kit. 1:34:03.280 --> 1:34:04.719 It out in the nines. 1:34:04.800 --> 1:34:07.240 You know, everything that you could possibly think of. They had, 1:34:07.840 --> 1:34:11.640 you know, these massive vehicles. National Guard helped them, you know, 1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:14.479 block off these roads. The local police helped them block 1:34:14.479 --> 1:34:17.360 off these roads, which you know, if you know about 1:34:17.400 --> 1:34:20.000 the sheriff in Ventura County. He's one of the only 1:34:20.040 --> 1:34:23.360 guys who doesn't care about sanctuary state ordinances. 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:26.160 So it was a standoff essentially. 1:34:26.240 --> 1:34:29.519 And when Shawn and I arrived, it was right around dusk, 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:33.439 so you know, it had been many hours since these 1:34:33.520 --> 1:34:36.800 raids began, and essentially what Border Patrol found is that 1:34:36.840 --> 1:34:40.599 they couldn't leave because these roads were being blocked off. 1:34:40.800 --> 1:34:43.000 They got some fans through, but the vast majority of 1:34:43.000 --> 1:34:47.080 those vehicles were still there, and they weren't prepared to 1:34:47.160 --> 1:34:48.040 be there that long. 1:34:48.240 --> 1:34:52.880 They had to air drop supplies, water, food in order 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:55.519 to you know, shore up these folks. 1:34:55.560 --> 1:34:59.680 And you know, as word got out of the sort 1:34:59.680 --> 1:35:03.280 of commit unity response to this event, more people showed up. 1:35:03.320 --> 1:35:06.479 So by the time Sean and I got there, we 1:35:06.560 --> 1:35:11.920 were driving up list Posus and suddenly there's cars just 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:14.519 parked on either side of the road, and we ended 1:35:14.600 --> 1:35:16.800 up parking, i think, like three quarters of a mile 1:35:17.000 --> 1:35:20.240 away from the nearest blockade and all have to hike 1:35:20.360 --> 1:35:23.479 in because there was no space for cars. You know, 1:35:24.080 --> 1:35:25.759 I mean, we get up there and it's just about 1:35:25.800 --> 1:35:28.480 dusk and you can hear the chanting in the distance, 1:35:28.920 --> 1:35:32.400 and you know, it was a really horrible and also 1:35:33.160 --> 1:35:36.799 moving experience to walk up on you know, community response 1:35:36.840 --> 1:35:39.679 to this, and you know, the standoff continued for another 1:35:39.680 --> 1:35:43.680 couple of hours, but it was you know, half of 1:35:43.720 --> 1:35:47.120 the folks there are concerned community members, folks of mixed 1:35:47.120 --> 1:35:51.559 status families who understand the absolute terror of what happens 1:35:51.560 --> 1:35:54.000 when the government is chasing after your dad, you know, 1:35:54.320 --> 1:35:59.200 and also individuals who were looking for parents, uncles, you know, 1:35:59.240 --> 1:36:01.920 they had no idea idea where their family members were. 1:36:02.040 --> 1:36:04.679 I think the total number of people who were detained 1:36:04.880 --> 1:36:08.479 and are probably going to be deported ended up somewhere 1:36:08.479 --> 1:36:11.920 around three hundred and sixty one across two farms. Yeah, 1:36:11.960 --> 1:36:17.120 it's significant, absolutely insane, you know, and the standoff lasted 1:36:17.200 --> 1:36:20.120 for a couple extra hours into the night. People turned 1:36:20.120 --> 1:36:23.599 on their car headlights so that we had light out there. 1:36:23.800 --> 1:36:25.880 There was you know a. 1:36:25.800 --> 1:36:29.280 Pretty solid group of individuals who were in communication with 1:36:29.360 --> 1:36:33.720 other blockades asking for folks to shift to other locations, 1:36:34.240 --> 1:36:38.880 sharing supplies and water, you know, and then border patrols 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:42.360 started getting antsy. You could see them playing with their guns, 1:36:42.600 --> 1:36:47.240 you know, their riot munition's weapons. They were shifting, they're 1:36:47.400 --> 1:36:51.400 forming and reforming, and you know, organizers kind of understood 1:36:51.439 --> 1:36:54.240 that something was about to happen, so they backed off, 1:36:54.640 --> 1:36:57.920 strategically retreated because there were marches planned for the next day. 1:36:58.600 --> 1:37:01.839 They were leaving, I could see off in the distance. 1:37:01.880 --> 1:37:04.360 It witness this directly until we drove up on it. 1:37:04.400 --> 1:37:06.240 But you could see off in the distance that all 1:37:06.280 --> 1:37:08.639 of these cars, this line of cars was going around 1:37:09.360 --> 1:37:12.080 the back end of the factory on a side road 1:37:12.200 --> 1:37:15.440 and then ending up a little bit farther down Lasosos 1:37:15.960 --> 1:37:19.240 and there was flashing lights everywhere. Turns out that they 1:37:19.240 --> 1:37:22.160 were trying to make their getaway and they hit what 1:37:22.520 --> 1:37:25.320 I think was probably a traffic jam because folks were 1:37:25.439 --> 1:37:27.320 ready to go. They had packed up their cars and 1:37:27.320 --> 1:37:30.800 they were leaving when they tear gassed everybody so they 1:37:30.800 --> 1:37:31.839 could make their getaway. 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:33.040 So, like Sean and I. 1:37:32.960 --> 1:37:35.760 By the time we drove up on it, because we 1:37:35.800 --> 1:37:38.280 saw in the distance, it was like that cloud is 1:37:38.320 --> 1:37:40.880 not normal, This isn't dust, Like that's tear gas. 1:37:41.000 --> 1:37:42.760 Let's get in the car and go see what's going on. 1:37:43.080 --> 1:37:45.360 We drove up just as the last canisters were being 1:37:45.680 --> 1:37:48.360 spent on the road and it was just a fog, 1:37:48.880 --> 1:37:52.120 you know, and cars people were panicking. You know, you 1:37:52.120 --> 1:37:54.760 can tear gas in your fricking car, man. You know, 1:37:55.040 --> 1:37:58.640 it was pretty pretty intense. Not a great experience. 1:37:59.200 --> 1:38:02.240 Yeah, And videos from downtown LA on the first day 1:38:02.240 --> 1:38:05.040 of protests and as Sean was there covering it, they 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:08.559 had agents in gas masks in their vehicles and they 1:38:08.560 --> 1:38:10.640 were tear gasing in front. And then that seems to 1:38:10.640 --> 1:38:12.639 have been like their protocol, right, they will just tear 1:38:12.680 --> 1:38:14.120 gas the fuck out of the block and then we'll 1:38:14.120 --> 1:38:16.880 wear our gas masks inside our vehicles and leave. But 1:38:17.160 --> 1:38:19.960 I wanted to explain people I've seen this a lot 1:38:20.479 --> 1:38:23.479 will be wondering why Border Patrol with in Ventura, so, like, 1:38:23.560 --> 1:38:26.439 just to clarify or Oxnard or wherever they were at. 1:38:26.680 --> 1:38:29.160 The United States border isn't just a land border, like 1:38:29.400 --> 1:38:32.120 the United States has four edges, just like well, there's 1:38:32.160 --> 1:38:34.120 lots of edges, but you know, just like anything that's 1:38:34.120 --> 1:38:36.280 a big square, right, the ocean is a border too, 1:38:36.560 --> 1:38:39.840 and Border Patrol has this somewhat arbitrar one hundred mile 1:38:39.920 --> 1:38:43.400 enforcement zone in which they operate. So when you see 1:38:43.439 --> 1:38:45.799 border patrol operating a long way from a land border, 1:38:46.000 --> 1:38:48.160 that's because they are still within one hundred miles of 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:52.000 a border. You know, to include the Great Lakes up north. 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:55.320 Most of the United States population lives inside a border 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:56.599 patrol enforcement zone. 1:38:57.520 --> 1:39:00.200 Right, so you know, you won't see as many us 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:04.560 there are warrants to be served. For example, in Omaha, Nebraska, 1:39:04.800 --> 1:39:07.600 where there was a raid on a factory there that 1:39:08.280 --> 1:39:12.000 was a warrant investigation. Generally speaking, though, Yeah, that's why 1:39:12.040 --> 1:39:17.280 you see it in Boston, in Chicago, in Florida, and 1:39:17.360 --> 1:39:21.000 in most of California. It lives, you know, withinside that border. 1:39:21.080 --> 1:39:23.360 And so you know, the thing that I can say 1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:26.360 is that that next day when we went up and 1:39:26.400 --> 1:39:29.400 spoke to organizers, kind of got the skinny on how 1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:32.160 they were able to mobilize so quickly. As we were 1:39:32.240 --> 1:39:35.200 leaving that march, you know, a federal judge issued a 1:39:35.280 --> 1:39:41.600 temporary restraining order in Los Angeles County. Seven cities I 1:39:41.640 --> 1:39:43.479 think that were a party to the suit. 1:39:44.120 --> 1:39:47.520 It's not just Los Angeles County, it's the entire district 1:39:47.720 --> 1:39:50.240 of the CBD, thank you. Yes, yeah, it was quite 1:39:50.240 --> 1:39:53.960 a few cities filed suit as well as the ACLU 1:39:54.560 --> 1:40:00.519 farm workers several individual plaintiffs, which blocks them essentially from 1:40:01.479 --> 1:40:05.040 having a large scale rate with no warrant. So a 1:40:05.120 --> 1:40:08.439 judge basically told them, hey, you have to have a 1:40:08.520 --> 1:40:11.400 reason to be stopping and detaining people. 1:40:11.840 --> 1:40:12.439 The judge. 1:40:12.640 --> 1:40:14.960 I don't want to read too much into a judge's 1:40:15.040 --> 1:40:17.920 personal thoughts, but it became pretty clear even when they 1:40:17.920 --> 1:40:21.439 were having the hearing that the judge had pretty much 1:40:22.040 --> 1:40:24.200 had her own concerns that I don't think we're even 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:28.680 in the filings. And it also baighteen is essentially the 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:32.439 basement in a federal building, which is where a significant 1:40:32.439 --> 1:40:34.799 amount of the people are being held, and it forced 1:40:34.880 --> 1:40:38.599 them to allow lawyers access as well as a lot 1:40:38.600 --> 1:40:40.960 of them were essentially in these rooms that were like 1:40:41.000 --> 1:40:44.160 fifty to sixty people and there was one phone in 1:40:44.200 --> 1:40:48.000 the middle of it, so they were not getting private counsel. 1:40:48.400 --> 1:40:52.240 And with the restraining order, which I believe ends time 1:40:52.320 --> 1:40:58.360 next week, now they actually have to provide access to lawyers, 1:40:58.640 --> 1:41:00.559 you know, basic constitution stuff. 1:41:01.600 --> 1:41:03.880 Yeah, man, let me tell you, it was really, really 1:41:03.920 --> 1:41:07.559 bizarre to sit in a federal hearing. And now, look, 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:10.800 I've read transcripts from other reporters who listen in on 1:41:10.840 --> 1:41:14.439 these federal immigration issue hearings that we've had over the 1:41:14.520 --> 1:41:17.600 last six months. It is a whole other experience to 1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:22.559 be sitting in a courtroom with your little notepad, listening 1:41:22.560 --> 1:41:25.640 to the government's lawyers try and make the case that no, 1:41:25.800 --> 1:41:29.680 we're not actually racially profiling people here. We are just 1:41:29.760 --> 1:41:34.439 stopping them based on their appearance, facial expressions, what they're wearing, 1:41:35.040 --> 1:41:35.760 potentially the. 1:41:35.800 --> 1:41:37.320 Language that they choose to speak. 1:41:37.400 --> 1:41:40.280 And all of us sitting in the gallery are like, okay, 1:41:40.320 --> 1:41:42.960 you actually made that argument in an open court. Cool, 1:41:43.200 --> 1:41:46.040 you know what I mean, Like absolutely insane to hear 1:41:46.120 --> 1:41:49.160 that come out of a DOJ lawyer's mouth, where they're like, 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:51.559 we take umbrage with the fact that you're saying that 1:41:51.560 --> 1:41:54.120 we're racial profiling. By the way, here's all the things 1:41:54.120 --> 1:41:57.520 that we are doing, which is essentially profiling people. 1:41:57.600 --> 1:41:57.840 You know. 1:41:58.120 --> 1:42:00.840 So the tro is essentially just in we're seeing the 1:42:00.880 --> 1:42:04.320 Fourth Amendment, which is saying, you know, you cannot conduct 1:42:04.320 --> 1:42:07.720 these roving patrols and stop people without probable cause or 1:42:07.800 --> 1:42:09.760 weren't you just can't do it, you know. 1:42:10.200 --> 1:42:14.120 And what that's done is we have seen much. 1:42:14.000 --> 1:42:19.200 Less of the immigration enforcement activity that was a feature 1:42:19.560 --> 1:42:23.599 of June and early July, and it's kind of moving 1:42:24.360 --> 1:42:26.479 to the peripheric. I know that there are things happening 1:42:26.520 --> 1:42:30.439 in San Diego, James, and we've seen some potential reports 1:42:30.479 --> 1:42:34.680 out of Sacramento. We've seen reports up north in San Francisco, 1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:37.560 you know, in terms of the enforcement zone in California. 1:42:37.800 --> 1:42:40.720 We're also seeing ramping up immigration activities in places like 1:42:40.800 --> 1:42:46.360 Chicago and other cities Utah for example. And now in 1:42:46.400 --> 1:42:49.000 the last week and a half, we've seen half of 1:42:49.040 --> 1:42:53.400 the federalized National Guard be taken off deployment and sent home. 1:42:53.920 --> 1:42:57.120 And as of today, the twenty first of July, they're 1:42:57.160 --> 1:43:02.439 sending home the Marines, you know, which good right, But 1:43:02.479 --> 1:43:06.800 it's very clear that whatever they were trying to accomplish 1:43:06.880 --> 1:43:10.400 in Los Angeles to make a point to be a 1:43:10.439 --> 1:43:14.559 battering ram to set Los Angeles, which has always kind 1:43:14.560 --> 1:43:17.720 of been known as the sanctuary city and the surrounding 1:43:17.720 --> 1:43:23.519 area as like the example of what immigration enforcement activity 1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:26.720 in this new era of Trump two point zero what 1:43:26.880 --> 1:43:28.160 have you will look like? 1:43:28.640 --> 1:43:30.800 And ultimately I don't think they were successful. 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:33.240 I mean you look at the Raven MacArthur Park for example, 1:43:33.680 --> 1:43:36.040 or it was meant to be this you know, big 1:43:36.160 --> 1:43:40.640 operation essensibly to try and crack down on fake ID processing. 1:43:41.160 --> 1:43:44.400 Sean can talk to more of the context around MacArthur 1:43:44.479 --> 1:43:47.120 Park than I can. But they showed up and organizers 1:43:47.120 --> 1:43:50.160 had already cleared the park. You know, we were there 1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:53.120 for two and a half hours before they even showed up, 1:43:53.160 --> 1:43:56.599 and we watched as organizers put up signs. They were 1:43:56.720 --> 1:43:58.920 sitting at the home depot up the street making sure 1:43:58.920 --> 1:44:00.920 the folks knew that there might be a raid today. 1:44:01.120 --> 1:44:04.320 Like organizers had called through the entire park and said, 1:44:04.320 --> 1:44:07.400 this might happen today. If you're a mixed status or 1:44:07.600 --> 1:44:10.600 you know, your status is not one with papers, you 1:44:10.720 --> 1:44:13.320 might want to go home. You know, they cleared the 1:44:13.360 --> 1:44:16.320 soccer field, which had forty five people playing soccer on it, 1:44:16.840 --> 1:44:20.360 you know, and so by the time these armored vehicles 1:44:20.439 --> 1:44:23.559 are running down the street and doing all of their theater, 1:44:23.920 --> 1:44:27.720 there's no one there at all. You know, there's journalists, 1:44:27.760 --> 1:44:30.320 there's us. You know, there's a couple of unhoused folks 1:44:30.320 --> 1:44:32.559 who said, you know, screw that, I don't want to leave, 1:44:32.960 --> 1:44:35.640 but the vast majority of people had already gone, and 1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:37.800 so all that they got out of it was a 1:44:37.840 --> 1:44:41.960 really shitty hype video and a mayor and a governor 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:46.160 who were like really really pissed off, and you know, 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:50.280 a city that's just not going to just roll over 1:44:50.840 --> 1:44:53.680 and let this kind of crap happen, you know. And 1:44:53.760 --> 1:44:55.880 I think that's really emblematic of like what's been going 1:44:55.960 --> 1:44:57.880 on in Los Angeles for the last six weeks is 1:44:58.640 --> 1:45:01.160 they did not get the response that they were expecting, 1:45:01.800 --> 1:45:04.880 and they weren't prepared for that response and for the 1:45:05.000 --> 1:45:11.600 you know, for that to be a continuous response to unconstitutional, oppressive, 1:45:12.320 --> 1:45:17.960 violent actions by ICE and by the agencies that are 1:45:18.360 --> 1:45:19.160 enabling ICE. 1:45:19.520 --> 1:45:22.599 So yeah, you know, I think when we say city, 1:45:22.640 --> 1:45:25.160 we should like be clear that we're referring to like 1:45:25.479 --> 1:45:29.720 the city kua like community, not city like as government entity. Right, Like, 1:45:29.760 --> 1:45:32.559 there really hasn't been any certainly here in San Diego. 1:45:32.600 --> 1:45:35.519 At Sanieo police departmentally don't assist ICE, but they do 1:45:35.600 --> 1:45:39.400 show up to like form a coordinate around them, right like, 1:45:39.479 --> 1:45:43.640 to prevent any confrontation between them and protesters. And we 1:45:43.720 --> 1:45:47.479 saw like every police agency, like literally every police agency 1:45:47.520 --> 1:45:51.000 in La County and also Ventura County sheriffs were there 1:45:51.000 --> 1:45:54.720 for the biggest protest days. The city hasn't used its 1:45:54.800 --> 1:45:58.320 resources in that sense to stop this, right They've made 1:45:58.360 --> 1:46:01.439 rhetorical statements, but they haven't done anything with their police. 1:46:02.000 --> 1:46:03.600 Yeah, And I think this speaks to a kind of 1:46:03.680 --> 1:46:05.320 larger thing, which is that like these people thought they 1:46:05.320 --> 1:46:07.160 could just come into cities around the country and just 1:46:07.200 --> 1:46:09.280 shock and all everyone would really went over because like 1:46:09.320 --> 1:46:10.840 they think they're the Nazis. But the thing about the 1:46:10.880 --> 1:46:14.479 Nazis is that like people supported them, right, Like all 1:46:14.520 --> 1:46:16.960 the shit the Nazis were able to do happened because 1:46:17.000 --> 1:46:19.880 people wanted it to happen. And in a country where 1:46:19.880 --> 1:46:22.040 people don't want that shit to happen, where everyone looks 1:46:22.080 --> 1:46:23.920 at this and goes, what the fuck is going on, 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:27.000 we're like it's like seventy nine percent support for like 1:46:27.040 --> 1:46:29.120 the effects of immigration on the US right now, where 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:31.559 everyone's looking at this and just being like, no, they 1:46:31.600 --> 1:46:33.760 can't do it. There aren't enough of them. I don't know, 1:46:33.800 --> 1:46:36.519 Like it's just so stunning to me watching them like 1:46:37.360 --> 1:46:40.720 have to do the tactical adaptations that like normally like 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:43.320 protest groups have to do because the cops have tuned 1:46:43.400 --> 1:46:45.400 more resources than them. But they're having to do it 1:46:45.400 --> 1:46:47.720 because they's just like every single person walking down the 1:46:47.760 --> 1:46:51.360 street is like fuck you eat shit, And so they're. 1:46:51.160 --> 1:46:53.720 Just like outnumbered everywhere they go. 1:46:53.840 --> 1:46:57.519 It's and that's all to say, it's not like fucking horrible, 1:46:57.560 --> 1:47:03.160 because yeah, resisting fashion fucking sucks a lot of the time, 1:47:03.280 --> 1:47:06.640 and a lot of people get hurt and it's hideous, 1:47:06.800 --> 1:47:12.720 and also it's what has to be done. The last 1:47:12.720 --> 1:47:14.840 thing that I wanted to ask is, so, with the 1:47:14.840 --> 1:47:17.800 injunction kind of like coming to an end soon, what 1:47:17.840 --> 1:47:19.960 do you think is the future of sort of what 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:23.160 ICE is going to be doing, and what the response 1:47:23.280 --> 1:47:24.960 is going to be, and what border patrol are doing 1:47:25.240 --> 1:47:26.439 in this sort of month to come. 1:47:27.080 --> 1:47:27.840 It's hard to say. 1:47:27.920 --> 1:47:30.960 One of the things that I'm curious about is we 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:34.599 won't really know what the federal government's plan is until 1:47:35.240 --> 1:47:38.200 I think it's the We'll just say late July when 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:41.840 the next hearing is. So the temporar straining order ends 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:46.160 in late July. Generally speaking, with temporaries training orders on 1:47:46.560 --> 1:47:53.160 law enforcement, what you see is they either continue while 1:47:53.360 --> 1:47:57.960 the hearings commence, or you see a pretty large mountain 1:47:57.960 --> 1:48:00.840 of evidence that says, hey, we did this, this, this, this, 1:48:00.880 --> 1:48:04.200 and this that's changed it, so we're now sort of 1:48:04.360 --> 1:48:08.960 in cooperation with the order. That is likely one of 1:48:08.960 --> 1:48:13.920 the reasons why we've seen fewer raids here in Los Angeles. Ultimately, 1:48:13.960 --> 1:48:16.320 a temporary restraining order is I don't want to call 1:48:16.320 --> 1:48:20.240 it a wilder extreme action at all, but those are 1:48:20.280 --> 1:48:24.320 generally signed when a judge agrees that it is extremely 1:48:24.520 --> 1:48:31.000 likely that, given the current situation, the plaintiffs have a case. 1:48:31.640 --> 1:48:35.479 So unless the federal government comes by with like this 1:48:35.560 --> 1:48:39.160 gigantic mountain of new training and all these new plans 1:48:39.160 --> 1:48:41.879 and things like that, my guess is we'll probably see 1:48:42.280 --> 1:48:44.639 at least some of the things in that temporary restraining 1:48:44.720 --> 1:48:47.439 order continue. I also think it's possible that the federal 1:48:47.439 --> 1:48:49.920 government is just going to say, you know what, this 1:48:49.960 --> 1:48:54.240 temporary restraining order only applies to this specific area. We'll 1:48:54.280 --> 1:48:55.200 just go somewhere else. 1:48:56.040 --> 1:48:58.559 It's the Central District of California, right, so like San 1:48:58.680 --> 1:49:03.759 Luis Obispo Center, Arbora, then sure at La Riverside County 1:49:03.800 --> 1:49:04.080 as well. 1:49:04.120 --> 1:49:05.640 I think Riverside. 1:49:06.080 --> 1:49:09.400 Yeah, it doesn't include San Diego, doesn't include the Northern District, 1:49:09.439 --> 1:49:12.120 which is most of the west coast of California, or 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:14.800 the Eastern District, which is most of the Valley and 1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:17.760 further north eastern California. So yeah, it's perfectly possible they 1:49:17.760 --> 1:49:20.400 could go somewhere else and still do their shit within 1:49:20.520 --> 1:49:24.959 California or like you say, like there are so many targets, 1:49:25.080 --> 1:49:28.280 right because immigrants are part of the fabric of our society. 1:49:28.840 --> 1:49:31.519 They are everywhere, and that's you know, they can just 1:49:31.720 --> 1:49:33.479 go for wherever they think a soft target is. 1:49:34.720 --> 1:49:37.640 And there's also work noting that. You know, these organizers 1:49:37.680 --> 1:49:39.080 are going to continue to organize. 1:49:39.160 --> 1:49:39.320 Right. 1:49:39.360 --> 1:49:44.280 So these groups Central CSO and Union of Barrio and 1:49:44.600 --> 1:49:47.160 you know the various other groups. Again, I've been around 1:49:47.160 --> 1:49:50.960 for decades. VC Defense that has been around since twenty sixteen. Right, 1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:53.519 this is only a portion of the organizing that they do. 1:49:54.160 --> 1:49:57.559 You know, they didn't start with or they will not 1:49:57.880 --> 1:49:59.759 end with just these patrols. 1:49:59.840 --> 1:50:00.160 Right. 1:50:00.200 --> 1:50:04.160 So they've built out infrastructure and mutual aid group networks 1:50:04.200 --> 1:50:07.439 that are buying groceries for folks and mixed status families 1:50:07.479 --> 1:50:10.240 that are covering the sort of bills that are not 1:50:10.320 --> 1:50:12.719 being paid because people are too afraid to go to work. 1:50:12.800 --> 1:50:15.960 They're doing childcare, they're getting kids to school, they're trying 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:18.640 to provide legal defense. You know, like these are you know, 1:50:18.720 --> 1:50:22.400 coalitions of individuals who live in these areas who are 1:50:22.400 --> 1:50:26.080 doing long term organizing to shore up the community whether 1:50:26.200 --> 1:50:30.400 or not there is an onslaught of immigration enforcement activity 1:50:30.880 --> 1:50:32.559 in a certain geographical area. 1:50:32.920 --> 1:50:35.559 So in terms of organizing. 1:50:35.080 --> 1:50:37.400 It's just going to keep happening and that's good, right, 1:50:37.960 --> 1:50:42.559 And you know, I think that what's hardening to see 1:50:42.760 --> 1:50:47.480 after the last you know, seven weeks of really intense, 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:53.520 really scary, really horrifying kidnappings and detainments on the streets 1:50:53.560 --> 1:50:57.839 in southern California, is you know, an equal and often 1:50:58.200 --> 1:51:01.720 more you know, stronger response to it from the community 1:51:01.800 --> 1:51:03.639 that you know reminds you that this is. 1:51:05.200 --> 1:51:06.599 Not the end and. 1:51:06.680 --> 1:51:10.080 Folks are prepared for picking up the slack when things 1:51:10.080 --> 1:51:12.839 fall through. You know, people are not falling through the cracks. 1:51:13.280 --> 1:51:16.320 People are not having their lives shattered without someone watching 1:51:16.360 --> 1:51:17.160 and trying to help. 1:51:17.240 --> 1:51:20.080 So that's an important piece there, you know. 1:51:20.120 --> 1:51:22.000 So I would say that in terms of the response 1:51:22.080 --> 1:51:24.439 and what happens next, like it's a multi front thing. 1:51:24.560 --> 1:51:29.120 You have these legal cases finding their way through the courts. 1:51:29.200 --> 1:51:32.840 You have from all levels, right, and you have individuals 1:51:32.840 --> 1:51:34.840 who are trying to keep track of folks who have 1:51:34.960 --> 1:51:39.479 been detained and deported and sending money back to Mexico 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:41.760 or whatever, you know, other country that these folks are 1:51:41.760 --> 1:51:44.840 being sent back to making sure that things are as 1:51:44.920 --> 1:51:47.200 much as they can. You know, there aren't any rips 1:51:47.240 --> 1:51:49.320 in the safety net. And I think that's the main 1:51:49.400 --> 1:51:52.080 lesson of the last seven weeks is like that sort 1:51:52.120 --> 1:51:56.799 of response is incredible, and you can replicate it anywhere 1:51:56.800 --> 1:51:57.280 that you are. 1:51:58.040 --> 1:51:59.920 You know a lot of folks. 1:51:59.640 --> 1:52:01.640 Like to, you know, kind of roll their eyes at 1:52:01.640 --> 1:52:04.080 the idea of like organizing starts with. 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:05.000 Talking to your neighbor. 1:52:05.200 --> 1:52:08.120 No, actually it does, right, And you know there's these models, 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:13.519 especially in southern and central California, where this organizing works right. 1:52:13.840 --> 1:52:17.720 It's not particularly ideological in many ways, sometimes it is, 1:52:17.800 --> 1:52:20.439 but the basic function of it is to make sure 1:52:20.439 --> 1:52:23.559 that your neighbor doesn't fall into a hole, right, And 1:52:23.600 --> 1:52:25.599 they'll do the same for you so you don't fall 1:52:25.600 --> 1:52:28.640 into a hole should something happen to you. So you know, 1:52:28.760 --> 1:52:30.960 start there and take a look at these models that 1:52:31.040 --> 1:52:36.000 these absolute fucking heroes pardon my language, are doing in 1:52:36.240 --> 1:52:39.240 this area and know that you can also do that. 1:52:39.800 --> 1:52:43.599 So yeah, these people in every facet of this are 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:45.200 just you somewhere else or help. 1:52:45.320 --> 1:52:48.840 Maybe they are literally you. I don't know. Yah, I 1:52:48.880 --> 1:52:50.320 keep up the good work. 1:52:51.640 --> 1:52:53.479 Sure do you want to explain to us very briefly 1:52:54.000 --> 1:52:58.960 the FBI arrests and the case against at least one 1:52:59.000 --> 1:53:01.560 of us and so see so members. 1:53:02.080 --> 1:53:06.479 Well, right now, there's only one criminal complaint, and that's 1:53:06.520 --> 1:53:12.200 for Alejandro Oriana, who is accused of conspiracy to commit 1:53:12.240 --> 1:53:15.960 civil disorder as well as aiding and embedding a conspiracy 1:53:16.000 --> 1:53:20.040 to commit civil disorder. The criminal complaint, all it really 1:53:20.120 --> 1:53:25.919 says is that he gave a dispense with face shields 1:53:25.920 --> 1:53:29.320 to protesters who were dressed like they might do something bad. 1:53:29.520 --> 1:53:32.760 At no point during the criminal complaint does it even say, hey, 1:53:33.040 --> 1:53:35.679 he handed it to a guy and then that guy 1:53:35.880 --> 1:53:36.719 committed a crime. 1:53:36.920 --> 1:53:38.000 Doesn't even go that far. 1:53:38.439 --> 1:53:41.200 It just goes those guys look kind of I don't know, 1:53:41.920 --> 1:53:46.240 they look like they're about to do something, and says 1:53:46.240 --> 1:53:47.960 that you know, these people were dressed in such a 1:53:47.960 --> 1:53:52.240 way where it might interfere with law enforcement activities, like 1:53:52.760 --> 1:53:56.040 you know, it would deaden the impact of less leevil weapons. 1:53:56.520 --> 1:53:58.760 Yeah, I mean the impact of leslie for weapons on 1:53:58.800 --> 1:54:00.439 your face is potentially told. 1:54:01.040 --> 1:54:03.040 Yeah, and you know, beyond that, you know, there was 1:54:03.040 --> 1:54:05.639 a search warrant for another member of Centro CSO who 1:54:05.720 --> 1:54:08.800 was roughly handled by FBI agents on a walk through 1:54:08.840 --> 1:54:12.840 the park and was given a search warrant and her 1:54:12.880 --> 1:54:17.360 phone was taken. I asked the US Attorney's office if 1:54:17.400 --> 1:54:21.080 they were related, and first I was told I don't 1:54:21.080 --> 1:54:23.200 know what you're talking about, which I thought was a 1:54:23.240 --> 1:54:26.559 little interesting. Never gotten that response from any official, and 1:54:26.600 --> 1:54:30.720 then a few hours later got an official response that said, no, 1:54:30.840 --> 1:54:34.480 it is another case. So what that means time will tell, 1:54:35.000 --> 1:54:37.680 but I think it's likely that there will be more 1:54:37.720 --> 1:54:40.040 to come. On top of that. I think it's interesting 1:54:40.080 --> 1:54:44.120 to note that the first arraignment for Oreana was an 1:54:44.200 --> 1:54:45.520 absolutely packed court and. 1:54:45.480 --> 1:54:46.120 Support of them. 1:54:46.760 --> 1:54:49.040 Where can people find you two's work and where can 1:54:49.040 --> 1:54:51.360 people support you as you do a whole bunch of 1:54:51.360 --> 1:54:56.480 incredibly critical journalism on the continuing resistance to the fascist 1:54:56.480 --> 1:54:57.480 deportation campaign. 1:54:58.280 --> 1:55:00.320 A lot of my reporting goes to bluesky, so you 1:55:00.360 --> 1:55:03.480 can find me at melviw or Blueskuy dot social. I 1:55:03.600 --> 1:55:07.080 have a newsletter, Words about Work dot blog, and you 1:55:07.080 --> 1:55:09.680 can also find me on my Instagram. My link tree 1:55:09.760 --> 1:55:11.560 is linked in all sorts of places, so you can 1:55:11.560 --> 1:55:15.120 find all those links in one convenient. 1:55:14.720 --> 1:55:17.640 Place, including the description of this episode. 1:55:17.920 --> 1:55:20.120 Hey yeah, those are the places where you can find me. 1:55:20.640 --> 1:55:23.800 You can find me on a cat with news on 1:55:23.880 --> 1:55:28.160 all social media platforms, although most of my sort of 1:55:28.160 --> 1:55:32.440 breaking stories come on Blue Sky first, and I'm a 1:55:32.480 --> 1:55:36.560 freelance journalist, so usually you can just google my name 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:38.920 and you'll see some stories there. On my Blue Sky 1:55:39.040 --> 1:55:41.920 and Instagram, there's a link tree if you want to 1:55:41.960 --> 1:55:42.920 support Hell. 1:55:42.840 --> 1:55:46.480 Yeah, and to everyone listening to the show, always remember 1:55:48.160 --> 1:55:49.760 you are many, they are few. 1:56:11.400 --> 1:56:14.160 Pedophile is a correct pronunciation going into. 1:56:14.000 --> 1:56:17.000 This just for and that's the sentence we're starting the 1:56:17.080 --> 1:56:21.000 episode with. Welcome to It could happen here a podcast 1:56:21.040 --> 1:56:23.720 where we teach you how to pronounce the word pedophile 1:56:24.360 --> 1:56:30.480 or pedophile or pedophily your Greek. You know, that's not 1:56:30.520 --> 1:56:39.560 how the Greeks say it. Welcome to the show. We're 1:56:39.560 --> 1:56:43.240 talking about some breaking news about friend of the pod 1:56:43.800 --> 1:56:47.000 Kylie Ray Jepstein, a joke I did on the Behind 1:56:47.000 --> 1:56:49.720 the Bastards episodes about Epstein that nobody liked. 1:56:49.840 --> 1:56:50.879 Least of all the lawyers. 1:56:50.960 --> 1:56:52.800 I don't like that either. 1:56:53.000 --> 1:56:56.400 It wasn't even really a joke, just something I shouldn't 1:56:56.440 --> 1:56:58.000 have said. Yeah, so this is all. 1:56:57.880 --> 1:57:00.240 Barely breaking news because this is stuff that we've known 1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:01.760 about for like ever. 1:57:01.840 --> 1:57:03.720 None of this is a mystery. We're not going to 1:57:03.720 --> 1:57:07.480 be blowing any minds here that Jeffrey Epstein sexually trafficked 1:57:07.520 --> 1:57:11.960 and molested children, or that Donald Trump probably did as well, 1:57:12.400 --> 1:57:14.000 or well, he didn't do the trafficking, but you know 1:57:14.080 --> 1:57:16.680 he was a party to it. Yeah, allegedly, you know, 1:57:17.080 --> 1:57:20.320 being alleged by a lot of people, Rupert Murdoch, one 1:57:20.320 --> 1:57:23.320 of them by Dach, who is currently being sued for 1:57:23.400 --> 1:57:25.720 ten million dollars in his capacity as owner of The 1:57:25.760 --> 1:57:29.000 Wall Street Journal. So on July seventeenth, twenty twenty five, 1:57:29.360 --> 1:57:33.400 at six forty five pm Eastern Standard time, the Wall 1:57:33.480 --> 1:57:37.480 Street Journal published an article with the title Jeffrey Epstein's 1:57:37.480 --> 1:57:40.440 friends sent him body letters for a fiftieth birthday album. 1:57:40.560 --> 1:57:42.040 One was from Donald Trump. 1:57:42.400 --> 1:57:43.840 Body is one way to describe it. 1:57:44.160 --> 1:57:46.320 Bondy is one way to describe it. 1:57:46.480 --> 1:57:49.400 Yes, Yes, indeed, it's really good to see a leftist 1:57:49.440 --> 1:57:51.640 outlet like Wall Street Journal take this thing head on. 1:57:51.880 --> 1:57:55.040 Yeh finally, Yes, you know, I've had my issues with them, 1:57:55.120 --> 1:57:58.000 you know, being hardline Marxists as they are. That doesn't 1:57:58.000 --> 1:57:59.720 fully del with my own beliefs. But you have to 1:57:59.760 --> 1:58:02.840 resp sfeckt them in this instance. You know, I'm not 1:58:02.880 --> 1:58:05.160 as much of a Stalinist as the Wall Street Journal 1:58:05.200 --> 1:58:06.160 famed Stalinists. 1:58:06.400 --> 1:58:09.200 Yeah, that's why they've counseled us, because they're two wake. 1:58:09.720 --> 1:58:09.920 Yeah. 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:13.040 The Little Red Book published by the Wall Street Journal, 1:58:13.720 --> 1:58:23.200 Big malfansmphlets imprint. 1:58:20.080 --> 1:58:22.960 History would absolve me. Yeah, a little Red Book. 1:58:23.280 --> 1:58:26.480 Yeah yeah. They've got a beautiful leather bound edition of 1:58:26.680 --> 1:58:32.600 Ted Kaczinski's manifesto. Speaking of letter bound editions, Gillan Maxwell, 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:35.760 I think this initially came out because it was a 1:58:36.040 --> 1:58:40.040 Spanish like small scale publisher that published that put out 1:58:40.040 --> 1:58:42.800 this like leather bound book for Gillan for to give 1:58:42.880 --> 1:58:44.960 to Jeffrey and god do I want to see the 1:58:44.960 --> 1:58:47.760 whole copy because I am curious to who else submitted letters. 1:58:48.080 --> 1:58:52.640 But during the FBI investigation and everything around Epstein, this 1:58:52.920 --> 1:58:55.520 was found and it got leaked out to the Wall 1:58:55.520 --> 1:58:57.680 Street Journal. I think the New York Times has now 1:58:57.720 --> 1:58:59.200 seen it, so they're not the only people who have 1:58:59.280 --> 1:59:02.640 seen it. You've got a piece of paper and there 1:59:02.760 --> 1:59:05.680 is a drawing that may or may not have been 1:59:05.720 --> 1:59:08.000 done by Trump, but is alleged by some to have 1:59:08.040 --> 1:59:10.440 been done by Trump. Although he denies this, having said 1:59:10.480 --> 1:59:13.240 that he has never written a picture in his life. 1:59:13.320 --> 1:59:16.160 But it's like a silhouette of a naked woman. And 1:59:16.160 --> 1:59:20.560 then Donald Trump's signature where pubic hare would be right, 1:59:21.000 --> 1:59:24.080 classy man, Yeah, our current. 1:59:24.280 --> 1:59:28.000 Our president. Yeah, I had the guy with the nuclear codes. 1:59:28.440 --> 1:59:31.960 Yeah, great stuff. And then the actual text on the 1:59:32.080 --> 1:59:35.320 letter is written in the form of like a dialogue. Right, 1:59:35.400 --> 1:59:38.800 So it's like written as like a fake script of 1:59:38.840 --> 1:59:44.040 a conversation between Trump and Epstein voiceover. There must be 1:59:44.120 --> 1:59:47.480 more to life than having everything, Donald, Yes, there is, 1:59:47.680 --> 1:59:50.360 but I won't tell you what it is, Jeffrey, nor 1:59:50.400 --> 1:59:53.240 will I since I also know what it is. Donald. 1:59:53.400 --> 1:59:57.000 We have certain things in common, Jeffrey. Jeffrey, yes, we do, 1:59:57.120 --> 2:00:00.480 come to think of it, Donald, Enigma's never a Have 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:03.440 you noticed that, Jeffrey. As a matter of fact, it 2:00:03.480 --> 2:00:06.120 was clear to me the last time I saw you Trump, 2:00:06.280 --> 2:00:09.440 A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may 2:00:09.440 --> 2:00:11.680 every day be another wonderful secret. 2:00:12.040 --> 2:00:14.840 The thing I need a listener to understand about this episode, right, 2:00:15.320 --> 2:00:18.720 that is not the most incriminating thing Donald Trump is 2:00:18.760 --> 2:00:20.760 going to say in this episode. 2:00:21.240 --> 2:00:23.920 It's not even close to it. Although it is It 2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:26.400 is very funny. This could hardly be more directive. The 2:00:26.560 --> 2:00:29.560 letter was just Jeffrey, I love being a pedophile with 2:00:29.640 --> 2:00:33.960 you love Donald Trump? Right, Like that's less. 2:00:33.720 --> 2:00:38.600 Direct yet he has gone further. Yeah, but like he's 2:00:38.760 --> 2:00:39.560 just saying it. 2:00:40.520 --> 2:00:43.320 So the Wall Street Journal publishes this, and they publish 2:00:43.360 --> 2:00:46.640 this with like the least bit of editorializing that they can, right, 2:00:46.800 --> 2:00:50.880 they're being very careful with this. Trump loses his fucking mind. 2:00:51.000 --> 2:00:52.840 And this is obviously coming on the heels I probably 2:00:52.840 --> 2:00:54.680 should have started with this important context. This is coming 2:00:54.760 --> 2:00:58.680 on the heels of Pambondi and the Justice Department announcing actually, 2:00:58.720 --> 2:01:02.320 everything's cool and they're not going to be dropping any 2:01:02.360 --> 2:01:04.920 more info on Epstein. There's no client list or anything. 2:01:05.000 --> 2:01:07.280 After Bondi had earlier this year been like I have 2:01:07.360 --> 2:01:09.760 the Epstein client list on my desk, and they handed 2:01:09.760 --> 2:01:13.600 out the Epstein papers, you know, release one, these like 2:01:13.640 --> 2:01:16.640 big binders that fucking the limbs of TikTok Lady and 2:01:16.720 --> 2:01:18.839 Jack Pasobaic and a munch of other right wing influencers. 2:01:18.880 --> 2:01:20.360 Well walked out of the White House with these big 2:01:20.360 --> 2:01:22.600 binders being like, Aha, we've got it. We've got all 2:01:22.600 --> 2:01:24.920 the files that are gonna put all the dims behind jail. 2:01:25.280 --> 2:01:27.200 And then a couple months later, BONDI and the DJ 2:01:27.360 --> 2:01:29.000 is like, actually, there's nothing else to tell anybody. We've 2:01:29.000 --> 2:01:31.600 got nothing. There's nothing interesting at all about Epstein. So 2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:34.720 then this shit comes out, right, it gets leaked from someone, 2:01:34.760 --> 2:01:38.120 presumably someone within the FBI. Right, I think that's what 2:01:38.160 --> 2:01:41.120 we're left to assume at this point, because this was 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:43.040 revealed as a part of their investigation. Right, this is 2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:45.240 some of the stuff that was confiscated, you know, when 2:01:45.240 --> 2:01:48.600 Gilan Maxwell got taken into custody. Okay, so a couple 2:01:48.640 --> 2:01:50.480 of things have happened since then. For one thing, Trump 2:01:50.560 --> 2:01:53.440 is suing the Wall Street Journal for I believe at 2:01:53.520 --> 2:01:57.440 least twenty billion dollars. This lawsuit was launched in a 2:01:57.480 --> 2:02:01.080 federal court in Miami. Trump said, true's social The lawsuits 2:02:01.120 --> 2:02:03.200 filed not only in behalf of your favorite president, all 2:02:03.200 --> 2:02:05.520 caps me, but in order to continue standing up for 2:02:05.560 --> 2:02:08.240 all Americans who will no longer tolerate the abusive wrongdoings 2:02:08.240 --> 2:02:10.880 of the fake news media. So this is what Trump 2:02:10.920 --> 2:02:14.240 is claiming. And obviously Trump denies any wrongdoing, denies anything 2:02:14.280 --> 2:02:18.040 but kind of lightly knowing Jeffrey Epstein and for some context, 2:02:18.120 --> 2:02:20.400 Trump and Epstein have been seen together numerous times. There 2:02:20.400 --> 2:02:23.920 are pictures and videos of them both together. Trump talked 2:02:23.920 --> 2:02:27.200 about in interviews, including one with New York Magazine where 2:02:27.200 --> 2:02:29.960 he said, like me, Jeffrey's known to really like women, 2:02:30.080 --> 2:02:32.080 and some of them are on the younger side. Right. 2:02:32.560 --> 2:02:34.080 He's been saying shit like this for years. 2:02:34.280 --> 2:02:37.440 Quote. I've known Jeffer fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a 2:02:37.480 --> 2:02:39.160 lot of fun to be with it. Deeven said, he 2:02:39.200 --> 2:02:41.440 likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many 2:02:41.480 --> 2:02:43.720 of them are on the younger side, no doubt about it. 2:02:43.800 --> 2:02:46.640 Jeffrey enjoys his social life. Two thousand and two, we 2:02:46.760 --> 2:02:50.320 know they were friends. The information suggests that I think 2:02:50.320 --> 2:02:52.680 it's around two thousand and five or six, they had 2:02:52.720 --> 2:02:55.320 a falling out over a real estate deal. With the 2:02:55.360 --> 2:02:59.440 real estate deal and one alleged incident at mar A Lago, Yes, 2:02:59.480 --> 2:03:02.760 where jeff Free was acting quote unquote inappropriately to a 2:03:02.880 --> 2:03:05.720 daughter of a member of the club and then Trump 2:03:05.760 --> 2:03:07.640 barred him from the club. And Trump has claimed this 2:03:07.760 --> 2:03:09.880 multiple times through the years. Between this and the real 2:03:09.960 --> 2:03:12.480 estate deal that's led to their falling out. 2:03:12.800 --> 2:03:16.280 There's other stories. There's one. I've heard that Epstein got 2:03:16.280 --> 2:03:19.800 really angry because Trump was physically like touching one of 2:03:19.800 --> 2:03:23.640 Epstein's girlfriends, like one of his actual like partner girlfriends, 2:03:23.760 --> 2:03:25.560 and that he got angry over that. We don't know, 2:03:25.800 --> 2:03:28.160 but we do know that they were seen socially together 2:03:28.200 --> 2:03:30.280 and talked about being friends for quite a while. 2:03:30.480 --> 2:03:32.680 They were neighbors, and they were like socialites, both in 2:03:32.680 --> 2:03:34.120 New York and in Frorida. 2:03:34.200 --> 2:03:36.520 Right, yeah, for a while, from the eighties up through 2:03:36.560 --> 2:03:40.480 the early two thousands. Right now. Trump has denied sending 2:03:40.520 --> 2:03:42.680 this letter. He said that this doesn't sound like me. 2:03:42.920 --> 2:03:45.400 He wrote on truth Social I don't draw pictures. 2:03:46.200 --> 2:03:46.960 Now that was a lot. 2:03:47.800 --> 2:03:51.320 This has sparked one of my favorite investigatory cycles. The 2:03:51.320 --> 2:03:53.400 New York Times published an article right after this post 2:03:53.400 --> 2:03:55.960 that says Trump says he doesn't draw pictures, but many 2:03:56.000 --> 2:03:59.120 of his sketches sold an auction, and it's like photos 2:03:59.240 --> 2:04:01.240 of a bunch of To be fair, none of these 2:04:01.240 --> 2:04:04.560 are sketches of naked women. But there's a crude black 2:04:04.600 --> 2:04:07.160 marker drawing of the Empire, state building. 2:04:07.080 --> 2:04:08.360 A lot of city skylines. 2:04:08.640 --> 2:04:12.280 Allegedly, the drawing of the woman was drawn in black marker, right, 2:04:12.400 --> 2:04:14.440 and they're noting that he did a lot of black 2:04:14.480 --> 2:04:17.520 marker drawings. Right, he signs his bills in shoppy, doesn't 2:04:17.600 --> 2:04:19.520 he signs his bills in sharpie, And that he has 2:04:19.560 --> 2:04:23.560 a signature that does kind of look like pubic hair. Right, 2:04:23.640 --> 2:04:26.520 if you were to like draw a crude set of Genitalia, 2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:30.160 Donald Trump's signature could stand in for pubic hair, right, 2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:33.040 Like the way that he signs this signature, that's one 2:04:33.080 --> 2:04:35.959 way you could interpret it, right, It's also. 2:04:35.800 --> 2:04:37.919 Worth noting, and I think this is actually really important 2:04:38.440 --> 2:04:41.760 when he signs this, right, he signs it like like 2:04:41.840 --> 2:04:43.880 on this picture of like the Empire State Building. Right, 2:04:43.880 --> 2:04:46.160 it's a really shitty drawing the Umper State Building. His 2:04:46.320 --> 2:04:50.200 signature is like right next to the building. If you're 2:04:50.280 --> 2:04:52.480 drawing a picture of a naked woman and you shift it, 2:04:52.520 --> 2:04:53.080 like if. 2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:55.800 The Empire State Building was sitting down in like an 2:04:55.920 --> 2:04:59.600 L shape and had pubiccare, that's where the signature right, bes. 2:05:00.120 --> 2:05:01.760 Everything is exactly the same. 2:05:02.200 --> 2:05:04.640 It's the SIPI State Building had pubic care. 2:05:04.920 --> 2:05:07.280 There's also a drawing that he did. It's called the 2:05:07.360 --> 2:05:09.680 money Tree drawing. It looks like if the giving tree 2:05:09.720 --> 2:05:12.000 was filled with dollars, and again, the signature kind of 2:05:12.000 --> 2:05:13.040 looks like pubic hair. 2:05:13.720 --> 2:05:17.240 So Trump's a little artist, just like a since underneath 2:05:17.240 --> 2:05:20.080 the money tree to meditate. That gets his alternative. 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:23.600 Trump did like yearly drawings and the doodles for like 2:05:23.680 --> 2:05:25.800 charity auctions, and that's what most of these are from. 2:05:26.200 --> 2:05:28.400 And to be fair, a lot of US presidents have 2:05:28.440 --> 2:05:32.680 been doodlers, you know. Ike, our former president doodled himself 2:05:32.720 --> 2:05:35.560 with huge muscles during a meeting talking about the overthrow 2:05:35.600 --> 2:05:36.600 of Guatemala by the. 2:05:36.560 --> 2:05:42.080 Same it's so funny. 2:05:42.200 --> 2:05:45.040 It's so funny. I mean, so many people died in 2:05:45.080 --> 2:05:47.600 a horrible deaths, but it's really pretty funny. 2:05:47.720 --> 2:05:49.200 Chad Eisenhower. 2:05:51.240 --> 2:05:55.720 Just shredded entire indigitous civilizations, wipe off the face of 2:05:55.720 --> 2:05:57.080 the earth forever, Like. 2:05:57.160 --> 2:05:58.800 Look at Chad Eisenhower. 2:06:01.000 --> 2:06:02.879 If you have a chat eise in how a tattoo, 2:06:02.960 --> 2:06:07.680 please submit it to Sophie on Twitter. She's just I write, Okay. 2:06:07.840 --> 2:06:12.680 Look, I feel confident saying iHeartRadio will pay for anyone's tattoo. 2:06:12.760 --> 2:06:14.960 If you want to get Chad Eisenhower, as long as 2:06:14.960 --> 2:06:16.520 it's a facial tattoo, you know. 2:06:16.880 --> 2:06:18.640 Yeah, you can get it in that uv ink that 2:06:18.720 --> 2:06:21.120 doing tattoos in when you're in. 2:06:21.080 --> 2:06:22.480 The club, people. 2:06:27.320 --> 2:06:30.360 Beautiful stuff, triggering a stampede from the dooms. 2:06:30.400 --> 2:06:30.640 Fill. 2:06:31.400 --> 2:06:33.760 Yeah, you're gonna cause another one of those fucking Jersey 2:06:33.920 --> 2:06:38.280 nightclub fires that killed one and twenty people. It's not funny. 2:06:38.280 --> 2:06:41.120 A lot of people died anyway. There was also another 2:06:41.600 --> 2:06:43.280 God I should have it up here, but it's another 2:06:43.320 --> 2:06:47.839 investigation into like does the writing that Trump did sound 2:06:47.960 --> 2:06:50.160 like his other writing? And they found that Number One, 2:06:50.480 --> 2:06:53.080 Trump has a number of times in the past put 2:06:53.120 --> 2:06:56.640 out writing in the form of a hypothetical script between 2:06:56.640 --> 2:06:59.040 other people. That is a thing he's done in the past. 2:06:59.480 --> 2:07:03.800 And then multiple phrases that were used in this letter 2:07:04.040 --> 2:07:06.480 are phrases he has used in the past, in some 2:07:06.520 --> 2:07:07.640 cases multiple times. 2:07:07.680 --> 2:07:10.400 Except some of the Mega investigators were able to use 2:07:10.440 --> 2:07:14.120 Grok to ask if Trump ever used the word enigma before, 2:07:14.400 --> 2:07:17.440 and Grok said no, So we closed that case. Never 2:07:17.440 --> 2:07:19.320 mind the fact that he said it on the campaign 2:07:19.360 --> 2:07:23.480 trail in twenty sixteen, and he said multiple times in 2:07:23.560 --> 2:07:24.880 his best selling. 2:07:24.560 --> 2:07:26.880 Book No Evidence he wrote that book. 2:07:26.640 --> 2:07:28.400 He loves the word Well, I'm not gonna say he 2:07:28.480 --> 2:07:31.800 loves it, but he's used the word enigma before, right, 2:07:31.880 --> 2:07:36.000 He described Ben Carson as an enigma. He's described Dan 2:07:36.160 --> 2:07:39.040 Rather as an enigma. So maybe he and Epstein were 2:07:39.080 --> 2:07:43.200 both fucking Dan Rather. Is that possible. I'm gonna say yes. 2:07:43.640 --> 2:07:45.600 I think you should also be impeached for that. 2:07:46.160 --> 2:07:46.760 I think so. 2:07:47.320 --> 2:07:49.720 I'm sorry I have just just kept talking of Grook. 2:07:49.840 --> 2:07:53.040 I'm reading the Trump versus murderc lawsuit, which describe Eggs 2:07:53.040 --> 2:08:00.440 dot Com as quote the Internet's watering hole. What no, sorry, no, yeah, 2:08:00.520 --> 2:08:02.800 no longer the everything website. 2:08:02.920 --> 2:08:06.080 The watering hole. What are you doing? What is wrong 2:08:06.120 --> 2:08:09.480 with you? People? Fucking jump off a bridge? You stupid sons? 2:08:09.480 --> 2:08:09.960 A bitious. 2:08:10.360 --> 2:08:12.840 It is interesting you still really met at Elon because 2:08:12.840 --> 2:08:15.360 Elon is also one of the originators of this current 2:08:15.680 --> 2:08:18.120 wave of like Epstein focus. 2:08:18.040 --> 2:08:20.880 And it's interesting after the letter came out, Elon was 2:08:21.000 --> 2:08:23.240 just like, obviously a fake. Obviously. I think he's scared. 2:08:23.280 --> 2:08:25.480 I think some g men showed up at his door 2:08:25.600 --> 2:08:28.120 and were like, this is a nice life you've got, 2:08:28.160 --> 2:08:30.040 fucking Elon Musk. It would be a shame of a 2:08:30.080 --> 2:08:33.200 hell fire missile hit your house, hit your fucking compound 2:08:33.240 --> 2:08:34.240 with all of your wives. 2:08:34.720 --> 2:08:36.120 But the thing is, and this is the fun part 2:08:36.160 --> 2:08:38.560 about this is like it doesn't matter what Elon says now, 2:08:38.600 --> 2:08:41.640 like he already opened the floodgates and the games are fucking. 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:44.480 Open now, like no, no, no, do you. 2:08:44.480 --> 2:08:46.280 Know what else the gates are open from. 2:08:46.640 --> 2:08:53.960 Yeah, is our advertisers and we're back. So this is 2:08:54.000 --> 2:08:57.480 the gist of the situation. Now, this letter is out, 2:08:57.960 --> 2:09:00.760 and a lot of people, even I and I still 2:09:00.800 --> 2:09:03.920 am to some extent kind of there's been so many 2:09:03.920 --> 2:09:06.040 ops this that has to be it for old Donnie Trump. 2:09:08.080 --> 2:09:11.120 One Nitny wiggles his fucking way out right, you know 2:09:11.680 --> 2:09:14.360 that said this does seem to be pissing off a 2:09:14.520 --> 2:09:19.400 lot of his more diehard people, right, including fucking the 2:09:19.440 --> 2:09:21.560 Dilbert guy. We don't need to give any name besides 2:09:21.600 --> 2:09:23.640 the Dilbert guy, but the Dilbert Guy's pissed about this. 2:09:23.720 --> 2:09:27.120 A lot of people who have been like really religious 2:09:27.200 --> 2:09:29.440 Trump supporters are pissed as a result of this. 2:09:30.040 --> 2:09:33.160 Sean Ryan, the right pissed about this. 2:09:33.840 --> 2:09:36.800 Even Speaker of the House Mike Johnson has been more 2:09:36.840 --> 2:09:40.520 Trump critical the past week and has given interviews to 2:09:40.920 --> 2:09:46.160 another mega influencer turned soft Trump critic, now Benny Johnson, 2:09:46.640 --> 2:09:50.160 about how Trump handled this so poorly. A lot of 2:09:50.200 --> 2:09:51.680 them are trying to make this down into like a 2:09:51.720 --> 2:09:55.440 messaging fail or like a rhetoric fumble, which obviously it's 2:09:55.480 --> 2:09:58.720 so much more substantial than that. But cracks are forming 2:09:58.800 --> 2:10:00.760 in a way that we haven't released scene for his 2:10:00.840 --> 2:10:02.160 base in a long time. 2:10:02.240 --> 2:10:04.080 And the thing I think is really important about this 2:10:04.400 --> 2:10:08.160 is that, Okay, so this is me a going history mode. 2:10:08.320 --> 2:10:11.680 If you look at a thing that has been studied 2:10:11.680 --> 2:10:13.520 by an enormous amount by the left, and I think 2:10:13.560 --> 2:10:16.720 studied mostly wrong, which is how did the Bolsheviks actually 2:10:16.760 --> 2:10:20.120 take power in nineteen seventeen. And the answer is that 2:10:20.440 --> 2:10:24.040 when they came for Kerensky in the October Revolution, everyone 2:10:24.160 --> 2:10:27.000 stayed home. Everyone looked at Kerensky and was like, I'm 2:10:27.000 --> 2:10:28.880 not dying for that dip shit, Like fuck them, Like 2:10:29.160 --> 2:10:32.000 if there's like dueling machine gun companies in the street, 2:10:32.080 --> 2:10:34.600 i Am not going to go die for Alexander Kerensky. 2:10:35.200 --> 2:10:37.320 And that's all they won because everyone stayed home. And 2:10:37.360 --> 2:10:39.160 that's the thing with Trump, right. The thing that's important 2:10:39.160 --> 2:10:42.200 about this is that the way that Trump can be 2:10:42.320 --> 2:10:45.280 defeated is if enough of his base just stays the 2:10:45.280 --> 2:10:48.280 fuck home whenever the sort of terminal crisis hits and 2:10:48.360 --> 2:10:50.040 every single thing we get like this, we're more and 2:10:50.080 --> 2:10:51.080 more of his base. 2:10:50.920 --> 2:10:52.720 Is like, well, I mean I. 2:10:52.680 --> 2:10:55.200 Could go face down a machine gun line for this guy, 2:10:55.240 --> 2:10:56.960 but he did piss me off by Epstein, So like 2:10:57.000 --> 2:10:59.360 fuck that. The more that happens, the better it is 2:10:59.400 --> 2:11:01.680 for all of us. When never the confrontations start to emerge. 2:11:01.840 --> 2:11:04.920 Yeah, I think in general just the more so much 2:11:05.000 --> 2:11:08.440 of the modern right is built on the Epstein stuff, 2:11:08.520 --> 2:11:09.880 and a lot of it is a myth. Right, there's 2:11:09.920 --> 2:11:13.560 a mythical idea that Epstein is trafficking small children and 2:11:13.640 --> 2:11:17.320 he's not. He was trafficking teenage girls, because that's what 2:11:17.440 --> 2:11:20.680 mostly rich adult men want to fuck, right, That's just 2:11:21.080 --> 2:11:23.320 the reality of the situation. 2:11:23.080 --> 2:11:26.880 Including famously Donald Trump. Yeah, he has like said this before, 2:11:26.920 --> 2:11:29.040 and you can look at the many court cases that 2:11:29.080 --> 2:11:30.320 have often been solved out of. 2:11:30.360 --> 2:11:32.360 Court alleged by him. 2:11:32.440 --> 2:11:36.520 And like there's this clip of the Howard Stern Show 2:11:36.520 --> 2:11:38.000 from the mid two thousands, which is kind of an 2:11:38.040 --> 2:11:41.440 endless source of men saying horrible things. I will include 2:11:41.440 --> 2:11:44.360 this clip here thing about four year olds. 2:11:44.400 --> 2:11:47.280 Oh, absolutely, would you do it? 2:11:47.480 --> 2:11:48.480 I have no problem? 2:11:48.600 --> 2:11:49.960 Yeah, do you have any age limit? 2:11:50.040 --> 2:11:50.600 Or would you. 2:11:51.000 --> 2:11:52.360 No, No, I have no age. I mean I have 2:11:52.400 --> 2:11:52.720 an age. 2:11:52.800 --> 2:11:55.760 I don't want to be like you, a twelve year old? 2:11:55.760 --> 2:11:58.960 Can I make a prediction for you? Good lord? This 2:11:59.040 --> 2:12:03.000 is the incorrect response to this question. Yes, this question 2:12:03.080 --> 2:12:06.800 has a very clear like cut off point, which even 2:12:06.880 --> 2:12:09.800 still is a little bit iffy. But this is absolutely 2:12:09.840 --> 2:12:12.680 the wrong answer. The answer is not twelve years old. 2:12:12.760 --> 2:12:16.760 This is that is Marity legally the wrong answer. 2:12:17.360 --> 2:12:18.680 Oh man. 2:12:18.880 --> 2:12:20.120 You know, one of the things I think it's also 2:12:20.240 --> 2:12:24.000 really important about this is looking at this in the 2:12:24.000 --> 2:12:29.200 context of Trump's unbelievable number of sexual assault allegations. And 2:12:29.200 --> 2:12:30.800 we're going to get into that in a second, but 2:12:30.880 --> 2:12:34.280 first we need to ask the question, Okay, has Donald 2:12:34.320 --> 2:12:38.880 Trump ever intentionally looked at the naked body of an 2:12:38.920 --> 2:12:43.320 underage girl? And in order to figure out the answer 2:12:43.360 --> 2:12:45.919 to this, I am going to turn to the man himself, 2:12:45.960 --> 2:12:50.400 Donald Trump, talking about walking into the changing rooms of 2:12:50.520 --> 2:12:54.000 teen Miss USA pageants, and I quote, you know, no 2:12:54.120 --> 2:12:56.200 men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because 2:12:56.200 --> 2:12:59.240 I'm the owner of the pageant, and therefore I'm inspecting 2:12:59.280 --> 2:13:00.240 it is this one. 2:13:00.320 --> 2:13:00.640 Okay. 2:13:01.000 --> 2:13:03.240 You know they're standing there with no clothes and you 2:13:03.280 --> 2:13:05.840 see these incredible looking women, and I sort of get 2:13:05.880 --> 2:13:08.720 away with things like that. Now, that is our president 2:13:08.800 --> 2:13:12.760 Donald J. Trump saying that he walks into changing rooms 2:13:12.920 --> 2:13:15.440 and looks at the bodies of naked underage girls and 2:13:15.480 --> 2:13:18.120 says that they are end like quotes incredible looking women. 2:13:18.480 --> 2:13:21.280 I remember when this quote was going around like maybe 2:13:21.440 --> 2:13:25.080 ten years ago. Yeah, and then just no, one know. 2:13:25.240 --> 2:13:27.040 No, it's gone into the memory hole now. 2:13:26.960 --> 2:13:29.840 Yeah, disappear right, Like there's so much of this shit. 2:13:29.960 --> 2:13:31.920 Like the Access Hollywood tape, but like. 2:13:32.120 --> 2:13:34.160 Yeah, and I think it's actually worth like looking at this. 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:37.600 There's another quote from Vox where they say this is 2:13:37.600 --> 2:13:40.120 an incident of like Trump walking in on a changing 2:13:40.160 --> 2:13:42.560 room like of again like naked underage girls. 2:13:42.680 --> 2:13:43.040 Quote. 2:13:43.120 --> 2:13:46.600 Billottel told BuzzFeed. She mentioned the incident to Trump's daughter Avonka, 2:13:46.640 --> 2:13:49.040 who shrugged it off, saying, quote, yeah he does that, 2:13:49.320 --> 2:13:52.120 so like yeah, like this is multiple people cooperating that 2:13:52.160 --> 2:13:54.520 he just like walks into the changing rooms of naked 2:13:54.560 --> 2:13:58.400 underage girls and like looks at their bodies. Right now, 2:13:58.480 --> 2:14:01.840 I will call that pedophile shit, right Like, I don't 2:14:01.840 --> 2:14:03.640 know if he wants to sue me for one billion dollars, 2:14:03.680 --> 2:14:04.560 please don't but. 2:14:04.560 --> 2:14:07.000 Like sounds like he's alleging pedophile. 2:14:07.080 --> 2:14:07.280 Shit. 2:14:07.520 --> 2:14:09.680 He's the one who said this, so, like, you know, 2:14:10.160 --> 2:14:13.520 and it's worth noting also last year a jury did 2:14:13.600 --> 2:14:17.680 rule that Trump had sexually assaulted an advice columnist named 2:14:17.680 --> 2:14:19.640 em J. Carroll, and he had to pay her like 2:14:19.760 --> 2:14:23.320 five million dollars. There's also again the like grab him 2:14:23.320 --> 2:14:25.000 by the pussy thing, which is him just talking about 2:14:25.000 --> 2:14:28.160 sexually assaulting women, which he does constantly. He kept on 2:14:28.240 --> 2:14:31.720 just like walking up to like people at his pageants 2:14:31.720 --> 2:14:33.720 and just kissing him without their consent, which is again 2:14:33.800 --> 2:14:37.200 sexual assault and directly tied to the Epstein case. We 2:14:37.240 --> 2:14:39.960 have an allegation by former model Stacy Williams, which for 2:14:39.960 --> 2:14:41.840 some reason, I don't know why everyone has suddenly forgotten 2:14:41.840 --> 2:14:47.400 about this, who alleged that she was introduced to Trump 2:14:47.760 --> 2:14:51.600 by Epstein, who like walked her to Trump Tower to 2:14:51.760 --> 2:14:54.640 meet Donald Trump, where he then sexually assaulted her like 2:14:54.720 --> 2:14:55.960 in front of Epstein. 2:14:55.920 --> 2:14:58.760 Yeah, in Trump Tower. This was also included in the 2:14:58.840 --> 2:15:00.880 list The New York Times together a few days ago 2:15:01.400 --> 2:15:04.280 on like Trump and Epstein's friendship quote. One of the 2:15:04.320 --> 2:15:06.920 young women who later said, mister Epstein greendon abus he 2:15:07.080 --> 2:15:09.040 was recruited into his world while working as a spot 2:15:09.080 --> 2:15:11.440 and an at mar A Lago. Another accuser recalled being 2:15:11.480 --> 2:15:13.840 eyed by Trump during a brief encounter in mister Epstein's 2:15:13.840 --> 2:15:17.520 office and claimed that mister Epstein told Trump at the time, quote, 2:15:17.600 --> 2:15:19.000 she's not for you. 2:15:19.480 --> 2:15:22.960 So like he just like says this shit, right, And 2:15:23.000 --> 2:15:24.280 I think this is, you know, part of the problem 2:15:24.320 --> 2:15:25.920 that we've been sort of getting it here, right, which 2:15:25.920 --> 2:15:29.520 is that like the conservative mythos about Epstein is that 2:15:29.640 --> 2:15:32.400 it's like four year olds, right, and it's like, no, 2:15:32.680 --> 2:15:37.960 Epstein was doing the shit that Donald Trump talks about doing, right, 2:15:38.400 --> 2:15:40.840 But because it's like attached to Epstein, right, Like Trump 2:15:40.920 --> 2:15:42.600 doesn't want to admit that he's been doing this, even 2:15:42.600 --> 2:15:43.880 though he's been admitting that he's been doing this for 2:15:43.880 --> 2:15:47.600 decades and decades and decades. It's harder for the conservatives 2:15:47.600 --> 2:15:49.400 to deal with this because like all of these people 2:15:49.440 --> 2:15:51.760 think the child marriage should be legal and that creeping 2:15:51.840 --> 2:15:53.920 on like fifteen year olds isn't pedophilia. 2:15:54.200 --> 2:15:55.880 It's not hard for them to deal with this because 2:15:55.880 --> 2:15:57.440 they don't have a fucking problem with it. 2:15:57.520 --> 2:16:00.680 Like Matt Wallash's talking about how like venteen year olds 2:16:00.720 --> 2:16:04.080 are the most fertile. So yeah, this is very common 2:16:04.120 --> 2:16:06.200 among certain aspects of like this like evangelical. 2:16:06.240 --> 2:16:09.040 Again, it's a major thing on the right to fight 2:16:09.200 --> 2:16:11.680 for it to be legal to marry fourteen year old girls, 2:16:11.960 --> 2:16:13.920 you know, as all as their parents say yes. 2:16:14.280 --> 2:16:16.160 And you could look at this from a conspiracy productive 2:16:16.160 --> 2:16:18.600 and be like, okay, like is there a ruling cabal 2:16:19.320 --> 2:16:21.760 of pedophiles I control the United States? And it's like, well, yeah, 2:16:21.800 --> 2:16:26.080 it's the Baptists and like the systematic cover up of 2:16:26.120 --> 2:16:28.880 this shit by the Catholic Church, right, it's Epstein. Yeah, 2:16:28.880 --> 2:16:32.040 But it's also like Trump admitting that he's like again 2:16:32.400 --> 2:16:35.400 perving on like doing pedophiles shit, but like walking in 2:16:35.440 --> 2:16:37.720 on these changing rooms of these fucking girls. He's just 2:16:37.760 --> 2:16:39.680 like admitting this on TV, right. 2:16:40.200 --> 2:16:42.240 And I think like the current thing that Trump's trying 2:16:42.280 --> 2:16:45.360 to do is make this Epstein thing another one of 2:16:45.400 --> 2:16:48.480 the many lines of attack against him throughout the years. 2:16:48.480 --> 2:16:50.680 And he's done a really good job at deflecting some 2:16:50.760 --> 2:16:53.600 things that have some actual like serious data on had 2:16:53.600 --> 2:16:56.520 some serious investigations, and like there was aspects of like 2:16:56.600 --> 2:16:59.400 Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. It may not 2:16:59.520 --> 2:17:02.640 have changed the outcome of the election in a substantial manner. 2:17:02.879 --> 2:17:06.240 But this is something that the FBI like legitimately investigated 2:17:06.280 --> 2:17:10.720 and had like real findings of, and he was able 2:17:10.760 --> 2:17:15.400 to just completely like rewrite what that investigation was into 2:17:15.440 --> 2:17:19.080 this like completely like astroturfed and like orchestrated hoax. And 2:17:19.080 --> 2:17:20.480 now it's like one of the main things that he 2:17:20.520 --> 2:17:23.560 talks about. And whenever there's new things that people bring 2:17:23.640 --> 2:17:26.160 up about why Trump is bad, he just compares it 2:17:26.200 --> 2:17:28.440 to the Russia hoax. Everything's just just like the Russia hoax. 2:17:28.480 --> 2:17:32.240 This is just another Democrat hoax against me. And this 2:17:32.320 --> 2:17:35.080 has been such an effective way for him to diffuse 2:17:35.400 --> 2:17:37.960 so many lines of attack against him. It's by just 2:17:38.000 --> 2:17:40.959 repeating long enough and often enough that it's just a 2:17:40.959 --> 2:17:44.360 baseless hoax. And he can do this anytime, and he'll 2:17:44.400 --> 2:17:47.160 replace like, oh, you know, this is a hoax, but 2:17:47.280 --> 2:17:49.600 you know when Hunter Biden does stuff, that's the real 2:17:49.640 --> 2:17:52.240 thing that the Democrats then try to cover up Hunter's laptop. 2:17:52.400 --> 2:17:55.480 They talk about Hunter's laptop so many times, something that 2:17:55.520 --> 2:17:57.680 does not matter. But like, this is the trend that 2:17:57.720 --> 2:18:01.160 he's been able to do. And eventually journalism get tired 2:18:01.200 --> 2:18:03.480 of having to repeat the same thing over and over again, 2:18:03.520 --> 2:18:06.720 explaining that these things are not baseless hoaxes but are 2:18:07.160 --> 2:18:12.560 legitimate investigations, legitimate concerns, and people just get tired of it. 2:18:12.600 --> 2:18:14.920 And he's able to like warp reality around things that 2:18:14.959 --> 2:18:17.480 he says. And this is the thing he's currently trying 2:18:17.480 --> 2:18:19.160 to do with Epstein. This is why he's calling it 2:18:19.200 --> 2:18:21.960 the Epstein hoax, using the same rhetoric that he used 2:18:22.000 --> 2:18:26.320 around all of the Russia stuff around the twenty twenty election, 2:18:26.520 --> 2:18:30.200 around Hunter Biden's laptop, and it's going to tire people out. 2:18:30.240 --> 2:18:32.360 And you can already kind of feel some of this 2:18:32.760 --> 2:18:35.760 like iteration of it losing some steam. And like I 2:18:35.840 --> 2:18:38.960 thought the Wall Street Journal piece would like invigorate people's 2:18:38.959 --> 2:18:44.600 discussion of like Trump's, you know, alleged pedophilia, and I 2:18:44.760 --> 2:18:47.200 think it's I don't know, at least in like observing 2:18:47.240 --> 2:18:50.040 the online ecosystem, immediate ecosystem the last few days. I 2:18:50.040 --> 2:18:53.280 don't know if Trump's strategy is working, but it is 2:18:53.640 --> 2:18:55.760 growing stagnant and that's just kind of the pace of 2:18:55.800 --> 2:18:59.039 the Internet sometimes. But if he's able to keep doing 2:18:59.200 --> 2:19:01.640 what he's currently I'm not sure if this stuff's going 2:19:01.720 --> 2:19:04.000 to really matter in two months beyond, you know, whatever 2:19:04.000 --> 2:19:07.679 comes out in discovery for the like Murdoch lawsuit. 2:19:09.680 --> 2:19:13.279 We should maybe explain who Murdoch is. Just it's Murdoch 2:19:14.000 --> 2:19:14.680 Murdoch is. 2:19:14.920 --> 2:19:16.440 He's a leftist revolutionary. 2:19:17.640 --> 2:19:20.600 Yeah, that's going to say, member of the Communist Party. 2:19:21.360 --> 2:19:25.880 Murdoch is an Australian tabloid magnate who owns the tabloid 2:19:25.920 --> 2:19:28.320 press more or less at some point in time. He 2:19:28.360 --> 2:19:31.080 has probably owned most of the tabloid press in the 2:19:31.120 --> 2:19:33.200 English language almost all around the world. 2:19:33.320 --> 2:19:33.480 Right. 2:19:33.920 --> 2:19:36.680 He owns The Sun in the UK, also The Times 2:19:36.840 --> 2:19:40.480 in Australia. He owns the Daily Sun and Deai Telegraph. 2:19:40.560 --> 2:19:42.960 In the US he owns a Wall Street Journal and 2:19:43.000 --> 2:19:47.080 the New York Post. He also owns Sky News, which 2:19:47.480 --> 2:19:51.160 broadcast like in the UK, he owns Fox News. He 2:19:51.240 --> 2:19:53.520 used to own people in the UK, remember the News 2:19:53.560 --> 2:19:56.760 of the World. He owns a massive amount of the 2:19:56.760 --> 2:20:00.080 tabloid and I guess the broadsheet press now. But he 2:20:00.160 --> 2:20:03.120 has historically been very right wing right. It's fair to 2:20:03.160 --> 2:20:08.680 say that Murdock outlets have boosted Trump enormously in his 2:20:09.360 --> 2:20:12.520 assent to office. However, now it appears they have fallen 2:20:12.560 --> 2:20:14.720 out and like that is significant. I think it is 2:20:14.760 --> 2:20:17.600 significant that this guy who has played a huge role 2:20:17.760 --> 2:20:20.840 in Trump's like, we don't have the sort of liberal 2:20:20.879 --> 2:20:23.680 Walter Cronkite anymore, right, Like the person who can change 2:20:23.720 --> 2:20:25.520 their mind on something and take the nation with them 2:20:25.520 --> 2:20:28.560 in the way that Kronkite had a role in doing 2:20:28.640 --> 2:20:32.879 at least in the Vietnam War. The boomer and gen 2:20:33.080 --> 2:20:35.520 x conservative people still have that in Fox News, right, 2:20:35.560 --> 2:20:38.920 Like Fox News can because it's like the constant background 2:20:39.000 --> 2:20:41.680 noise in people's lives in so much of this country. 2:20:42.360 --> 2:20:44.400 It can take people with it. And the fact that 2:20:44.520 --> 2:20:47.520 Trump has gone after Murdoch, I think that is potentially 2:20:48.280 --> 2:20:50.920 if they're falling out continues, that is potentially the most 2:20:51.000 --> 2:20:52.560 damaging part of this for him. 2:20:53.200 --> 2:20:55.480 I want to read a quote. I think I've talked 2:20:55.520 --> 2:20:58.720 about this on the show before, but Murdoch's role in 2:20:58.760 --> 2:21:01.280 doing the sort of reality shape stuff for Trump until 2:21:01.320 --> 2:21:04.119 now and Garrison what we were talking about about how 2:21:04.120 --> 2:21:06.039 Trump is able to sort of create his own reality. 2:21:06.680 --> 2:21:10.680 I want to read this quote from the Bush administration 2:21:10.920 --> 2:21:14.000 that's very famous, which is like the reality based community quote. 2:21:14.760 --> 2:21:18.280 Because the neo cons were trying to do the same thing, right, 2:21:18.320 --> 2:21:21.440 There's a very famous quote from the Bush administration which 2:21:21.480 --> 2:21:25.360 is attributed to a journalist named Ron Suttzkind. And he's 2:21:25.520 --> 2:21:29.160 doing an interview with like a Bush administration aid, and 2:21:29.400 --> 2:21:31.560 I'm just going to quote fromit. The aid said that 2:21:31.600 --> 2:21:33.920 guys like me were quote in what we call the 2:21:33.920 --> 2:21:36.800 reality based community, which he defined as people who quote 2:21:36.840 --> 2:21:40.879 believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. 2:21:41.879 --> 2:21:44.920 That's not the way the world really works anymore, he continued. 2:21:45.320 --> 2:21:48.360 We're an empire now, and when we act, we create 2:21:48.400 --> 2:21:52.840 our own reality. And while you're studying reality judiciously, as 2:21:52.879 --> 2:21:56.520 you will will act again, creating other new realities which 2:21:56.520 --> 2:21:59.400 you can study too, And that's how things will sort out. 2:22:00.120 --> 2:22:02.560 Tree's actors and you, all of you will just be 2:22:02.640 --> 2:22:05.880 left to study what we do. And that's you know, 2:22:05.920 --> 2:22:07.640 a lot of what trump Ism is too, right, which 2:22:07.680 --> 2:22:08.960 is like, yeah, I know all of you people are 2:22:08.959 --> 2:22:10.959 trying to like describe reality. I'm just simply going to 2:22:11.080 --> 2:22:13.720 change it by saying shit right and doing shit. 2:22:14.200 --> 2:22:15.800 And like all he has to do is like diffuse 2:22:16.200 --> 2:22:19.840 the possible damage that this Epstein thing can do to 2:22:19.920 --> 2:22:21.920 his base, Like he does not care about the other 2:22:21.959 --> 2:22:23.880 half of the country at all. He knows that they 2:22:23.920 --> 2:22:26.400 hate him, that does not matter. All he has to 2:22:26.400 --> 2:22:28.720 do is create enough of a doubt in the mind 2:22:28.760 --> 2:22:32.200 of the base that this thing isn't real. There's no 2:22:32.320 --> 2:22:34.640 proof that this Wall Street Journal story is real. This 2:22:34.760 --> 2:22:38.280 is all a hoax. The Epstein files were written by Obama, 2:22:38.760 --> 2:22:41.920 even though the second Epstein investigation was kicked off when 2:22:41.920 --> 2:22:44.760 he was president in twenty nineteen. But all these files 2:22:44.760 --> 2:22:45.280 were written by. 2:22:45.200 --> 2:22:47.520 My own garrison. I think it's bold of you to 2:22:47.520 --> 2:22:50.280 say that Trump was president in twenty nineteen. That's very 2:22:50.400 --> 2:22:51.080 much up for. 2:22:51.080 --> 2:22:54.920 Different controversial claim now about who was president in twenty nineteen. 2:22:55.280 --> 2:22:57.920 Yeah, certainly, like who is president in twenty twenty is 2:22:57.959 --> 2:22:59.920 something that the country now disagrees about. 2:23:00.200 --> 2:23:01.920 Yeah. The thing I want to say about this, though, 2:23:02.000 --> 2:23:03.840 right is, the neocons believe they could do this. Right, 2:23:03.879 --> 2:23:05.840 the neocons believe they had seized the range of empire 2:23:05.840 --> 2:23:07.959 and they could forever shape reality to their will, and 2:23:08.040 --> 2:23:11.080 they couldn't this quote from two thousand and four, Right, 2:23:11.320 --> 2:23:13.520 the neocons tried to do this, and they invaded a 2:23:13.600 --> 2:23:16.840 rock and they thought they could just fucking will like empire, 2:23:17.160 --> 2:23:19.600 like we create reality they thought they could just turn 2:23:19.640 --> 2:23:22.800 a rock into their own personal playground, and it destroyed them. 2:23:22.840 --> 2:23:24.039 Like where are the neocons now? 2:23:24.480 --> 2:23:24.640 Right? 2:23:24.720 --> 2:23:26.480 Like some of them are obviously the Trump administration, but 2:23:26.560 --> 2:23:28.600 like this is not a neocons. 2:23:28.040 --> 2:23:29.840 Some of them are now in the anti Trump or 2:23:29.879 --> 2:23:30.280 side of this. 2:23:30.360 --> 2:23:32.360 Yeah yeah, right, yeah, many of them are in the 2:23:32.400 --> 2:23:33.160 Lincoln project. 2:23:33.160 --> 2:23:35.640 The thing is right, the neocons are, like they don't 2:23:35.680 --> 2:23:37.160 they do not rule the empire anymore. 2:23:37.240 --> 2:23:37.959 Right, that's Trump. 2:23:38.000 --> 2:23:41.680 These people they ran into a piece of reality that 2:23:41.720 --> 2:23:44.400 they tried to devour and consume and replace. 2:23:44.040 --> 2:23:46.879 And it destroyed them. And I don't know if this 2:23:46.959 --> 2:23:48.080 is that for Trump, but. 2:23:48.280 --> 2:23:50.560 I yeah, I don't know. I'm not that optimistic. 2:23:50.680 --> 2:23:53.200 But like the last time that someone tried to do 2:23:53.240 --> 2:23:56.560 this using the American state, they eventually hit a thing 2:23:56.600 --> 2:24:00.440 they couldn't swallow and it completely annihilated them. And that's 2:24:00.640 --> 2:24:03.600 the goal with us, right, Like we have to like 2:24:04.360 --> 2:24:06.840 find the thing where enough of the coalition is peeled 2:24:06.840 --> 2:24:08.960 off and where it just completely blows up in their 2:24:09.000 --> 2:24:12.640 fucking face. And hopefully it's not like the Iraq War 2:24:12.800 --> 2:24:17.680 three or something, but this ability to warp reality purely 2:24:17.720 --> 2:24:21.080 by like thought and speech and action of empire like 2:24:21.360 --> 2:24:23.800 has its limits, and we've seen them be destroyed before. 2:24:24.160 --> 2:24:27.080 Yeah, it took a lot of people dying into the 2:24:27.160 --> 2:24:27.720 first time. 2:24:28.040 --> 2:24:31.360 That's what it was horrible, Right, It's not easy to 2:24:31.360 --> 2:24:34.520 stop these people. But you know, like, where the fuck 2:24:34.560 --> 2:24:35.640 is George Bush right now? 2:24:35.840 --> 2:24:38.000 Yeah he's doing a painting, Yeah. 2:24:37.920 --> 2:24:40.040 Yeah, on his foreign painting. But he's not running the 2:24:40.040 --> 2:24:40.680 fucking country. 2:24:40.720 --> 2:24:41.480 Not far. 2:24:41.680 --> 2:24:43.800 He's like ten miles away from where I used to live. 2:24:43.840 --> 2:24:47.280 It down, God, he's at a rubbit's house. 2:24:47.560 --> 2:24:50.039 Yeah. I don't know what else we got to say 2:24:50.080 --> 2:24:52.199 about our old friend Jepstein. 2:24:53.400 --> 2:24:54.840 I guess the one last thing that I have to 2:24:54.840 --> 2:24:57.520 say is I actually do think that, Like, look, if 2:24:57.560 --> 2:24:59.080 the thing that you've decided to do is you want 2:24:59.080 --> 2:25:02.920 to wage information warfare, like just continuing to spread this 2:25:03.000 --> 2:25:05.280 shit and like seating it in random right wing things 2:25:05.360 --> 2:25:07.080 is probably a fun thing to do with your time. 2:25:07.400 --> 2:25:09.560 It could work. Who knows it can't hurt? 2:25:09.720 --> 2:25:12.320 Yeah, I mean it could, but probably won't. What really 2:25:12.560 --> 2:25:15.360 could hurt? Right now? Given where we are, this. 2:25:15.480 --> 2:25:19.000 Is like the biggest chink in the maga ama that 2:25:19.040 --> 2:25:21.720 we've seen. Like he's lost more people over this than 2:25:21.760 --> 2:25:25.520 tearing families apart. We've masked and identified men with guns. 2:25:25.560 --> 2:25:28.680 People are fine with that, James, unfortunate. Lots of them 2:25:28.680 --> 2:25:29.080 think it's. 2:25:29.000 --> 2:25:30.240 Cool, but someone them don't. 2:25:30.280 --> 2:25:33.560 And that's going to be our interview tomorrow or maybe yesterday. 2:25:34.280 --> 2:25:37.360 The whole country is governed by QAnon logic. Now, this 2:25:37.520 --> 2:25:41.360 is the only thing that truly gets Americans upset anymore. 2:25:41.520 --> 2:25:45.320 As like an entire political block. Yeah, this is it. 2:25:45.360 --> 2:25:50.240 Like QAnon as a cohesive conspiracy doesn't really exist anymore, 2:25:50.320 --> 2:25:54.760 but its logic has perforated every aspect of America, Democrats 2:25:54.840 --> 2:25:59.760 and Republicans included. Now, and that's the real people that's 2:25:59.840 --> 2:26:04.600 like survived survived the past ten years of politics. Is 2:26:04.959 --> 2:26:06.400 like the logic of QAnon. 2:26:06.560 --> 2:26:07.959 It's the only thing that matters. 2:26:08.760 --> 2:26:10.160 It cannot be killed anymore. 2:26:11.000 --> 2:26:13.520 All right, Well this has been It could happen here 2:26:14.000 --> 2:26:17.600 until next time. You know, may every day be another 2:26:17.640 --> 2:26:19.000 beautiful secret. 2:26:19.760 --> 2:26:50.000 Gold this is it could happen here. Executive Disorder our 2:26:50.040 --> 2:26:52.640 weekly newscast covering what is happening in the White House, 2:26:52.720 --> 2:26:55.240 the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm 2:26:55.280 --> 2:26:58.520 Garson Davis. Today I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, 2:26:58.560 --> 2:27:02.360 and Sophie Lichtermann. This episode, we are covering the week 2:27:02.400 --> 2:27:06.480 of July sixteenth to July twenty three. It has been 2:27:06.760 --> 2:27:10.400 six months since Trump has took office. How do we 2:27:10.440 --> 2:27:11.880 feel about that, folks? 2:27:12.360 --> 2:27:15.360 Yeah, wow, there can't be three and a half were years. 2:27:15.600 --> 2:27:18.880 It's like there just can't, like there will not be 2:27:18.920 --> 2:27:19.880 a country left. 2:27:20.080 --> 2:27:24.039 Yeah, six months feels like a lifetime and not like 2:27:24.120 --> 2:27:25.920 it feels like no time has passed at all. 2:27:26.360 --> 2:27:30.520 So yeah, sixpence of us doing this? She's wild? Was 2:27:30.560 --> 2:27:34.520 that forty two months left? Am I correctly auditioning? I 2:27:34.560 --> 2:27:36.680 don't do mar heye is six months? 2:27:37.200 --> 2:27:39.920 Welcome to Math cast with doctor James Stout. 2:27:40.040 --> 2:27:44.200 Yeah, a doctor of modern European history. So it does 2:27:44.280 --> 2:27:45.879 not involve arithmetic. 2:27:46.520 --> 2:27:50.760 Oh man, let's go straight to Epstein, which is also 2:27:50.760 --> 2:27:53.520 what Hillary Clinton's Black Ops Kills squad said after they 2:27:53.560 --> 2:27:54.400 broke into the jail. 2:27:54.760 --> 2:27:58.920 Wow, garrets, you are spreading disinformation. That is the one 2:27:58.959 --> 2:28:01.720 group of people we can and confirmed. Did I feel, 2:28:01.800 --> 2:28:02.760 Jeffrey Epstein? 2:28:03.520 --> 2:28:07.040 Harrison, just because Robert's not here, does it mean you 2:28:07.120 --> 2:28:10.040 have to go down to his level of humor? 2:28:11.040 --> 2:28:14.000 I think yesterday or two days ago, we released Epstein 2:28:14.560 --> 2:28:18.560 Update episode where we discussed the first Wall Street Journal 2:28:18.600 --> 2:28:22.600 story where they released this type written note given to 2:28:22.600 --> 2:28:25.440 Epstein on his fiftieth birthday from Trump, where he wrote 2:28:25.520 --> 2:28:30.680 this fake dialogue conversation between him and Epstein saying, among 2:28:30.720 --> 2:28:34.960 other things, we have certain things in common Jeffrey, Yes, 2:28:35.000 --> 2:28:37.680 we do. Come to think of it, Enigma's never age. 2:28:37.760 --> 2:28:39.920 Have you noticed that? As a matter of fact, it 2:28:39.959 --> 2:28:42.400 was clear to me last time I saw you, a 2:28:42.480 --> 2:28:45.600 pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may every 2:28:45.680 --> 2:28:51.039 day be another wonderful secret quote, which is who you 2:28:51.080 --> 2:28:53.440 could have just wrote like a pedophile confession note and 2:28:53.480 --> 2:28:56.600 it would be less incriminating than whatever creepy shit you're 2:28:56.640 --> 2:28:58.760 doing with this. So if you want to listen to 2:28:58.840 --> 2:29:02.400 our full update episode on that, just pop over to 2:29:02.440 --> 2:29:05.440 the other episode after Executive Disorder is done. We do 2:29:05.520 --> 2:29:08.520 have some other updates to add on because the Epstein 2:29:08.560 --> 2:29:11.080 thing keeps being in the news despite the will of 2:29:11.200 --> 2:29:14.800 Donald Trump, who definitely wants this not in the news. 2:29:14.800 --> 2:29:19.240 In fact, he is trying out a number of distraction techniques, 2:29:19.280 --> 2:29:21.480 including releasing some files related to the death of Martin 2:29:21.560 --> 2:29:25.120 Luther King, which when everyone's asking to release the files, 2:29:25.160 --> 2:29:26.760 that's not the files they were talking about. 2:29:26.760 --> 2:29:29.360 Also, the family did not want that to happen. 2:29:29.760 --> 2:29:32.960 It's very disrespectful and has stated that for a while. 2:29:33.040 --> 2:29:35.360 This is a very cheap way to run some distraction. 2:29:35.840 --> 2:29:38.800 Last week, Pambondi sent a request to release the grand 2:29:38.879 --> 2:29:42.400 jury files on the Epstein investigation, and this was just 2:29:42.440 --> 2:29:45.080 a way to perform transparency because these types of files 2:29:45.120 --> 2:29:47.920 usually do not get released, like this was most likely 2:29:47.959 --> 2:29:50.600 going to get blocked by the judge. And they knew 2:29:50.600 --> 2:29:52.320 that when they sent this request. This was just to 2:29:52.360 --> 2:29:56.760 perform this like gesture of transparency, knowing that it wouldn't 2:29:56.760 --> 2:29:59.640 actually lead to anything. And all of this stuff goes 2:29:59.640 --> 2:30:02.480 against what Trump was saying, like a year ago. A 2:30:02.560 --> 2:30:05.240 year ago on Fox News, Trump said that he would 2:30:05.360 --> 2:30:08.240 release the files and then although he did kind of 2:30:08.240 --> 2:30:10.400 catch himself and realized that that might not be in 2:30:10.400 --> 2:30:12.840 his best interest because he kind of corrected and said 2:30:12.840 --> 2:30:14.480 that he would have to make sure there's not phony 2:30:14.520 --> 2:30:16.080 stuff in there. Let's play the clip. 2:30:16.840 --> 2:30:19.440 Would you declassify the nine to eleven files? 2:30:19.520 --> 2:30:20.080 Yeah? 2:30:20.120 --> 2:30:22.279 Would you declassified JFK files. 2:30:22.080 --> 2:30:24.160 Yeah, which I did. I did a lot of it. 2:30:24.240 --> 2:30:27.600 Would you declassify the Epstein files, Yeah? 2:30:27.680 --> 2:30:29.720 Yeah, I would I guess I would. 2:30:29.920 --> 2:30:32.320 I think that less so because you know, you don't 2:30:32.360 --> 2:30:34.520 know if you don't want to affect people's lives of 2:30:34.560 --> 2:30:36.280 its phony stuff in there, because there's a lot of 2:30:36.320 --> 2:30:38.279 phony stuff with that whole world. 2:30:39.640 --> 2:30:40.560 But I think I would. 2:30:40.720 --> 2:30:41.920 What does that fucking mean? 2:30:42.040 --> 2:30:45.760 That whole world? Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things 2:30:45.760 --> 2:30:49.840 in there. Notably, when Fox first aired this, they only 2:30:49.879 --> 2:30:52.800 played the first half of his answer where he said, yeah, 2:30:52.879 --> 2:30:56.360 I would, and did not air the part where we said, well, 2:30:56.720 --> 2:30:59.840 actually maybe not, because there's a lot of phony stuff 2:30:59.840 --> 2:31:00.360 in there. 2:31:01.120 --> 2:31:02.240 Yeah, that's interesting. 2:31:02.360 --> 2:31:06.120 Eventually the full clip went online, but at first they 2:31:06.160 --> 2:31:08.959 released this shorter clip to make Trump look better, which 2:31:09.160 --> 2:31:12.320 there's a lot of similarity to Trump's lawsuit against sixty 2:31:12.360 --> 2:31:15.000 Minutes in Paramount, when they released two different clips of 2:31:15.040 --> 2:31:17.600 Kamala Harris answering a question in like the same week 2:31:17.600 --> 2:31:20.000 on two different shows, answering the same question like two 2:31:20.000 --> 2:31:22.440 halves of the answer. Trump said that this was done 2:31:22.520 --> 2:31:25.440 explicitly to change the outcome of the election and sued 2:31:25.480 --> 2:31:29.039 sixty Minutes for this and because Paramount, the parent company 2:31:29.320 --> 2:31:31.840 of CBS News, is trying to complete a merger with 2:31:31.879 --> 2:31:34.680 sky Dance, which needs to be approved by the Trump administration. 2:31:35.240 --> 2:31:38.400 Paramount had started interfering with the affairs of sixty minutes, 2:31:38.440 --> 2:31:42.360 had just canceled the Colbert A Late show, possibly in 2:31:42.400 --> 2:31:46.040 efforts to appease Trump, and just gave him this massive 2:31:46.120 --> 2:31:48.000 bribe as a way to get out of the lawsuit. 2:31:48.560 --> 2:31:52.040 So very similar situation where news companies are playing two 2:31:52.120 --> 2:31:55.280 different things from the same answer. I think the one 2:31:55.360 --> 2:31:58.640 that happened on Fox News is way more egregious than 2:31:58.640 --> 2:32:00.360 the one sixty Minutes did. I think this, even if 2:32:00.400 --> 2:32:04.760 it's one, makes sense. But that's just a whole tiny aside. 2:32:05.520 --> 2:32:08.120 Releasing Epstein files is something that Trump has still been 2:32:08.280 --> 2:32:11.920 talking about. Last week, on Wednesday, July sixteenth, in an 2:32:11.920 --> 2:32:14.520 Oval Office press conference, he was asked if you would 2:32:14.520 --> 2:32:17.119 get Pambondi to try to release more documents. He answered 2:32:17.120 --> 2:32:20.840 like this, will you ask a trade general Pambondi to 2:32:20.879 --> 2:32:23.840 release more documents to finally put this controversy to that, you. 2:32:23.879 --> 2:32:25.680 Know, whatever is credible she can release. 2:32:25.760 --> 2:32:29.160 If a document is credible, of the documents there that 2:32:29.640 --> 2:32:31.520 is credible, she can release. 2:32:31.600 --> 2:32:32.480 I think it's I. 2:32:32.360 --> 2:32:36.519 Think it's good, but it's just really it's just a subject. 2:32:36.680 --> 2:32:42.240 He's dead, he's gone, and all it is is the Republicans. 2:32:42.280 --> 2:32:45.480 Certain Republicans got duped by the Democrats and then following 2:32:45.480 --> 2:32:47.560 a Democrat playbooker. 2:32:48.080 --> 2:32:50.760 So after this, Pambondi sent a request to a judge 2:32:50.879 --> 2:32:56.039 to unseal the Epstein Maxwell grand jury transcripts, and again 2:32:56.080 --> 2:32:59.959 this is the move to feign transparency. Attorney Sarah Crissoff, 2:33:00.400 --> 2:33:03.640 assistant us A jtorney in Manhattan two s eight, twenty 2:33:03.800 --> 2:33:06.000 twenty one, told the AP that this move was a 2:33:06.080 --> 2:33:09.080 quote unquote distraction. Quote the president is trying to present 2:33:09.160 --> 2:33:11.840 himself as if he's doing something here and really it's 2:33:11.879 --> 2:33:15.600 nothing unquote. She estimates that these transcripts could be as 2:33:15.600 --> 2:33:18.680 little as sixty pages anyway, because it is standard practice 2:33:18.680 --> 2:33:20.520 for the Southern District of New York to put very 2:33:20.560 --> 2:33:24.720 little information in these transcripts compared to some other states. 2:33:24.959 --> 2:33:29.040 And as expected earlier this week, the judge denied this request, 2:33:29.120 --> 2:33:30.920 which the Trump admin knew was going to happen, because 2:33:30.920 --> 2:33:33.960 they don't release grand jury transcripts. The whole point of 2:33:33.959 --> 2:33:36.400 a grand jury is that it's secret that she did this. Yeah, 2:33:36.440 --> 2:33:38.000 so this was never gonna happen. 2:33:38.120 --> 2:33:39.880 I fear that's commonsense. 2:33:40.879 --> 2:33:42.640 But this was the move to make it look like 2:33:42.720 --> 2:33:46.480 they were having some level of transparency. Another tactic Trump 2:33:46.480 --> 2:33:49.000 has done to distract from the Epstein story is directing 2:33:49.000 --> 2:33:53.000 in Tulsa Gabbard to run this huge distraction campaign by 2:33:53.040 --> 2:33:58.560 talking about the Obama treeson investigation. Jesus Christ, Yeah, I'll 2:33:59.000 --> 2:33:59.959 play a clip here. 2:34:01.040 --> 2:34:04.879 There is irrefutable evidence that detail how President Obama and 2:34:04.920 --> 2:34:08.960 his national security team directed the creation of an intelligence 2:34:09.000 --> 2:34:12.480 community assessment that they knew was false. 2:34:13.240 --> 2:34:14.279 They knew it would. 2:34:14.120 --> 2:34:17.600 Promote this contrived narrative that Russia interfered in the twenty 2:34:17.640 --> 2:34:21.080 sixteen election to help President Trump win, selling it to 2:34:21.120 --> 2:34:24.440 the American people as though it were true. 2:34:24.640 --> 2:34:25.160 It wasn't. 2:34:25.280 --> 2:34:27.959 The report that we released today shows in great detail 2:34:28.520 --> 2:34:33.240 how they carried this out. They manufactured findings from shoddy sources, 2:34:33.600 --> 2:34:39.120 They suppressed evidence and credible intelligence that disproved their false claims. 2:34:39.720 --> 2:34:45.480 They disobeyed traditional trade craft intelligence community standards, and withheld 2:34:45.520 --> 2:34:47.240 the truth from the American people. 2:34:48.400 --> 2:34:49.760 Very serious stuff. 2:34:50.080 --> 2:34:52.360 Just looks like a villain from the Orville. 2:34:53.879 --> 2:34:57.519 What they're talking about is, yeah, there was legitimate investigations 2:34:57.520 --> 2:35:00.600 into Russia's meddling in the twenty sixteen election. What they 2:35:00.640 --> 2:35:03.680 were unable to prove is conclusive evidence that Trump colluded 2:35:03.720 --> 2:35:07.080 with the Russians. But this meddling was real and was proven. 2:35:07.160 --> 2:35:09.720 This is stuff that they've found and Obama was president 2:35:09.800 --> 2:35:13.800 at the time, and yeah, he's gonna know about the investigation. 2:35:14.240 --> 2:35:17.000 So they're trying to turn that into this whole giant, 2:35:17.520 --> 2:35:22.040 giant hoax regarding Obama trying to steal the twenty sixteen election, again, 2:35:22.080 --> 2:35:26.040 an election that everyone knows Trump won. Trump was president 2:35:26.360 --> 2:35:30.520 from twenty seventeen to early twenty twenty one, something that 2:35:30.720 --> 2:35:34.120 some people have tried to forget, and they're trying to 2:35:34.200 --> 2:35:37.520 run like all of these distractions just to keep people 2:35:37.560 --> 2:35:39.879 from talking about Epstein. And this is something that Trump's 2:35:39.879 --> 2:35:42.600 really good at. All he needs to do is keep 2:35:42.720 --> 2:35:44.880 his base from turning on him, and the way he's 2:35:44.879 --> 2:35:47.360 going to do that is make them angry at other people. 2:35:48.000 --> 2:35:51.000 He has to find new targets to make his base 2:35:51.120 --> 2:35:53.720 upset at, and right now he's trying it out with Obama. 2:35:53.840 --> 2:35:55.560 Right He's done that with Biden for years, He's done 2:35:55.560 --> 2:35:58.480 that with Clinton for years. Obama is the new guy 2:35:58.560 --> 2:36:01.280 that he hasn't really targeted as much. So now he's 2:36:01.280 --> 2:36:03.760 trying to get his supporters really mad at Obama, and 2:36:03.879 --> 2:36:05.720 that is the whole way that he's trying to hold 2:36:05.760 --> 2:36:07.879 onto their support and hold onto their power. Because, yeah, 2:36:08.000 --> 2:36:09.760 some of the Epstein stuff may be a little bit weird, 2:36:09.920 --> 2:36:12.199 but did you see how Obama tried to steal the election? 2:36:12.600 --> 2:36:14.600 And this is his whole strategy. And he laid the 2:36:14.640 --> 2:36:16.800 strategy out at a press conference earlier this week where 2:36:17.000 --> 2:36:21.360 he's seen like coaching Republicans to respond to questions about 2:36:21.400 --> 2:36:25.199 Epstein by just talking about Obama and the Russian election 2:36:25.320 --> 2:36:28.440 interference investigation, the quote unquote Russia hopes. 2:36:29.440 --> 2:36:34.600 But remember this, Obama cheated on the election, and we 2:36:34.720 --> 2:36:39.000 have it called hard blue, and it's getting even more 2:36:39.040 --> 2:36:41.959 so because the stuff that's coming in is not even believable. 2:36:42.000 --> 2:36:45.280 So and you should mention that every time they give 2:36:45.320 --> 2:36:49.560 you a question that's not appropriate, just say, oh, by 2:36:49.560 --> 2:36:51.320 the way, Obama cheated on the election. 2:36:51.480 --> 2:36:53.920 You'll watch the camera turn off instantly. 2:36:54.760 --> 2:36:57.360 And this is the strategy he uses. Whenever he's asked 2:36:57.360 --> 2:37:00.000 about something, He'll talk about the Russia, Russia, Russia hope, 2:37:00.160 --> 2:37:03.920 the Hunter Biden laptop, things that aren't even real, things 2:37:03.920 --> 2:37:07.760 that he's like successfully syoped the country into believing are 2:37:07.800 --> 2:37:10.920 like real things. But whenever he's asked a question about Epstein, 2:37:11.040 --> 2:37:13.279 you can immediately pivot to that and have that control 2:37:13.360 --> 2:37:15.920 the conversation. And he's laying out the strategy here. This 2:37:16.000 --> 2:37:17.600 is what I was talking about last week in d 2:37:17.920 --> 2:37:20.879 about how Trump like dictates reality through speech, and he's 2:37:20.879 --> 2:37:24.680 trying to coach his fellow Republicans on how to do it. 2:37:25.120 --> 2:37:27.120 And they have to catch up on a lot of 2:37:27.120 --> 2:37:29.920 stuff because Trump's ties to Epstein have been known for 2:37:29.959 --> 2:37:34.040 a long long time. I'm going to play a very 2:37:34.360 --> 2:37:37.880 very gross clip from around the turn of the millennia 2:37:38.080 --> 2:37:41.039 talking about dating eighteen models. 2:37:41.920 --> 2:37:43.240 What did you do last night? For fun? 2:37:43.560 --> 2:37:45.840 I actually went to the Fashion Award show. 2:37:47.120 --> 2:37:48.800 Models working on. 2:37:51.040 --> 2:37:51.680 Big Donald. 2:37:51.680 --> 2:37:53.960 Do you worry because you have a daughter who's a model? 2:37:54.160 --> 2:37:55.800 I do, and I have a deal with her. She's 2:37:55.959 --> 2:37:59.800 just seventeen and she's doing great Ivanka, and she made 2:37:59.840 --> 2:38:02.199 me promised her swear to her that I would never 2:38:02.480 --> 2:38:03.879 dat a girl younger than her. 2:38:05.000 --> 2:38:07.560 So why did you grow with Howard? 2:38:07.560 --> 2:38:08.640 And she grows older? 2:38:08.800 --> 2:38:09.039 Right? 2:38:09.040 --> 2:38:12.440 The field is getting very limited for Dearly now that 2:38:12.520 --> 2:38:15.560 she's seventeen, His dating a field is getting very limited. 2:38:16.080 --> 2:38:18.879 I wonder what he could mean by that. Oh, I 2:38:18.920 --> 2:38:21.160 wonder what that could be, insinuating. 2:38:22.240 --> 2:38:23.640 Really fucking girls. 2:38:23.680 --> 2:38:24.040 Man. 2:38:24.440 --> 2:38:27.760 Yeah, this shit is actually deeply fucking still, like, yeah, 2:38:27.840 --> 2:38:28.520 it's hideous. 2:38:28.560 --> 2:38:31.440 And also like the fact that the Democrats didn't spend 2:38:31.440 --> 2:38:34.360 the entire election just calling him a pedophile and running 2:38:34.360 --> 2:38:36.240 ads that were just this man as a pedophile. 2:38:36.920 --> 2:38:39.400 Like, this is stuff we've known for a long time. 2:38:40.080 --> 2:38:45.080 Yeah, she's like in the public domain decades and decades. 2:38:45.560 --> 2:38:47.680 This is from a Guardian article in twenty twenty. At 2:38:47.680 --> 2:38:50.039 forty three years old, Donald Trump asked a seventeen year 2:38:50.040 --> 2:38:52.120 old girl on a date. Trump asked her out for 2:38:52.160 --> 2:38:54.520 dinner in the summer of nineteen eighty nine at an 2:38:54.640 --> 2:38:58.000 industry soiree. She recalls Trump asking how old she was. 2:38:58.440 --> 2:39:01.760 Quote I said seventeen, and he said, that's just great. 2:39:01.879 --> 2:39:06.720 You're not too old, not too young unquote legally speaking, 2:39:07.080 --> 2:39:11.800 too young. Outrageous, outrageous stuff. And we have some breaking 2:39:11.920 --> 2:39:14.240 news from just a few hours ago. We're recording this. 2:39:14.240 --> 2:39:18.040 On Wednesday, a second Wall Street Journal article has hit 2:39:18.080 --> 2:39:23.800 the Trump Towers. A new article talking about the Justice 2:39:23.800 --> 2:39:28.160 Department officials reviewing Attorney General Pam Bondi's quote unquote truckload 2:39:28.280 --> 2:39:32.680 of Jeffrey Epstein documents and discovering that Donald Trump's name 2:39:32.720 --> 2:39:39.720 appears multiple times, according to senior Administration officials. Bondy notified 2:39:39.720 --> 2:39:42.440 Trump about this in May, saying that a few other 2:39:42.520 --> 2:39:46.560 high profile names are also in the documents and that 2:39:46.560 --> 2:39:49.320 the DOJ would not be releasing these documents in order 2:39:49.320 --> 2:39:53.400 to quote unquote protect victims. As if you can't censor victims' 2:39:53.440 --> 2:39:56.560 names or censored hold sexual abast material, this is just 2:39:56.680 --> 2:39:57.760 a complete cover up. 2:39:58.320 --> 2:39:58.520 Yeah. 2:39:58.560 --> 2:40:00.600 Oh and by the way, in late break news, that's 2:40:00.600 --> 2:40:04.600 sure to make everyone considerably more normal. Epstein's defense lawyer, 2:40:04.680 --> 2:40:07.000 Roy Black, who's the guy who got him off from 2:40:07.040 --> 2:40:08.920 like going to prison for a billion years in two 2:40:08.920 --> 2:40:10.520 thousand and seven, just. 2:40:10.480 --> 2:40:15.400 Died like today, So okay, sure, Hillary Clinton kills squad. 2:40:15.440 --> 2:40:19.240 It's really really working working over time this point, Like 2:40:19.560 --> 2:40:23.920 Donald Trump kills squad questionable. Absolutely absolutely need to be 2:40:23.959 --> 2:40:26.640 retiring the Hillary Clinton kills squad jokes, because like, I 2:40:26.680 --> 2:40:29.879 think it's very likely that Epstein did kill himself. I 2:40:29.920 --> 2:40:31.840 do not think you need to believe in that sort 2:40:31.840 --> 2:40:36.080 of like conspiratorial thinking to also believe that there's documented 2:40:36.120 --> 2:40:39.680 evidence of Trump dating teenagers and wanting to date teenagers 2:40:40.040 --> 2:40:43.280 for the past like forty years, and that's something that 2:40:43.520 --> 2:40:45.600 everyone should be aware of. 2:40:45.959 --> 2:40:48.440 Like, that's not a conspiracy theory, and you don't need 2:40:48.480 --> 2:40:53.000 to believe in conspiratorial thinking to think that that's very likely. 2:40:53.720 --> 2:40:56.039 That said, I do want to establish there is at 2:40:56.120 --> 2:40:58.240 least one person on the podcast who thinks that he 2:40:58.320 --> 2:41:02.199 might not have I don't know, but every single time 2:41:02.280 --> 2:41:06.720 they do more weird shit about it, I'm like, maybe 2:41:06.920 --> 2:41:08.680 is this conspiracy brain thinking yes? 2:41:08.840 --> 2:41:10.840 But I mean, editing the video, did it make any 2:41:10.879 --> 2:41:13.280 one more certain that he killed himself? 2:41:14.120 --> 2:41:17.680 So as we enter the more than six month marker 2:41:17.720 --> 2:41:20.240 in the Trump administration, I think we should check in 2:41:20.280 --> 2:41:24.200 on how they youths feel about Donald Trump. Famously, there's 2:41:24.200 --> 2:41:25.959 a lot of reporting about how gen Z is, like, 2:41:26.000 --> 2:41:28.879 you know, swinging more conservative, how gen Z helped get 2:41:28.920 --> 2:41:33.760 Trump elected, and if you look at some February approval numbers, 2:41:34.080 --> 2:41:37.160 it does seem that between ages of eighteen and twenty nine. 2:41:37.320 --> 2:41:40.440 So too old. Using the aforementioned criteria. 2:41:40.800 --> 2:41:43.400 Trump did have a plus ten points approval, with fifty 2:41:43.400 --> 2:41:47.720 five percent approving only forty five percent disapproving of his performance. Now, 2:41:47.760 --> 2:41:51.920 come July things have changed dramatically in the youth bracket 2:41:52.080 --> 2:41:55.359 eighteen to twenty nine, with only twenty eight percent approval. 2:41:55.400 --> 2:42:00.000 It's a negative forty four points and seventy two percent disapproval, 2:42:00.040 --> 2:42:03.880 which is a net fifty four point negative swing. That's 2:42:04.000 --> 2:42:06.200 genuinely astonishing, Like. 2:42:07.920 --> 2:42:10.439 That's a huge jump. But it's not a jump, Garrison, 2:42:10.879 --> 2:42:13.720 it's a fall. That's you're right, You're right, it is 2:42:13.760 --> 2:42:16.000 going down. Yeah, Yeah, it's a plummet. 2:42:16.200 --> 2:42:19.039 This is according to CBS Newsballs again, and I do 2:42:19.080 --> 2:42:20.720 think me is right. I don't know if Trump's going 2:42:20.760 --> 2:42:23.080 to care about this very much because this does seem 2:42:23.120 --> 2:42:26.760 to be higher than his preferred dating bracket, So I 2:42:26.800 --> 2:42:29.360 don't think he's looking for the approval of people between 2:42:29.400 --> 2:42:33.199 eighteen to twenty nine, but this still might affect him culturally, 2:42:33.240 --> 2:42:33.840 I guess. 2:42:34.160 --> 2:42:34.840 Yeah. 2:42:34.920 --> 2:42:38.680 Talking of things that have gone down badly, Garrison, it's 2:42:38.760 --> 2:42:41.320 now our obligation to pivot to advertisements. 2:42:41.720 --> 2:42:58.280 Advertisements are doing just fine from what I hear, and 2:42:58.440 --> 2:43:02.560 we are back. Let's do an immigration segment for the 2:43:02.560 --> 2:43:05.000 middle of the show, and I guess I'll first start 2:43:05.040 --> 2:43:08.959 with ice watch. So the past few weeks, I've seen 2:43:09.000 --> 2:43:12.520 multiple videos of ice pulling over cars and sometimes not 2:43:12.520 --> 2:43:15.760 even like pulling over, just like blocking cars and narrow streets, 2:43:15.800 --> 2:43:20.480 like stopping them forcefully and then drawing guns as they 2:43:20.480 --> 2:43:22.200 get out of the car, like by the time they 2:43:22.200 --> 2:43:25.440 are like door open, feed on the ground, gun already drawn. 2:43:26.240 --> 2:43:30.320 And they then descend on activists doing ICE watch, basically 2:43:30.320 --> 2:43:33.760 people who follow ICE agents around to alert their community 2:43:33.760 --> 2:43:36.760 of where ICE currently is. Usually they're live streaming and 2:43:37.280 --> 2:43:39.800 this in particular video that I have sent to the 2:43:39.840 --> 2:43:42.600 team here very freaky. I think we should just watch 2:43:42.640 --> 2:43:42.920 it here. 2:43:43.080 --> 2:43:45.160 Yeah, yeah, definitely, and we can try and describe it 2:43:45.160 --> 2:43:56.240 a little bit for listeners. 2:43:50.160 --> 2:43:50.280 Right. 2:43:57.680 --> 2:43:59.840 If you know how I am, then why the fuck 2:44:00.600 --> 2:44:02.600 are you telling me to open the window, and why 2:44:02.640 --> 2:44:05.160 the hell are you pointing a gun a fucking taser 2:44:05.200 --> 2:44:05.360 on me? 2:44:05.400 --> 2:44:10.240 If you know who I am? Okay, And you guys 2:44:10.240 --> 2:44:12.199 follow everyone everyone. 2:44:13.280 --> 2:44:14.920 You guys stalk people all the fucking time. 2:44:16.240 --> 2:44:20.039 A very large man wearing a mask, a hoodie and 2:44:20.080 --> 2:44:23.400 a baseball cap, no obviously identification, not in a police uniform, 2:44:23.680 --> 2:44:26.240 not in like a order patrol uniform. It's just a 2:44:26.280 --> 2:44:30.320 guy who basically forces your car to stop and jumps 2:44:30.320 --> 2:44:31.440 out and points a gun at you. 2:44:31.600 --> 2:44:34.200 Yeah, he draws from Appendix Carrie, like, it's not in 2:44:34.240 --> 2:44:37.560 many states, this would be justification to start shooting at 2:44:37.560 --> 2:44:37.879 this man. 2:44:37.959 --> 2:44:38.160 Yeah. 2:44:38.400 --> 2:44:41.640 Yeah, there's I think reasons why they're not doing this 2:44:41.760 --> 2:44:44.400 in states through there's high levels of gun ownership because 2:44:44.720 --> 2:44:48.800 they're afraid of that happening. Because it's not clear at 2:44:48.840 --> 2:44:51.200 all as guy's a cop. No, it's a masked man 2:44:51.280 --> 2:44:53.720 has forced your car to a halt and is pulling 2:44:53.720 --> 2:44:55.120 a gun on you and is approaching you. 2:44:55.200 --> 2:44:55.400 Yeah. 2:44:55.480 --> 2:44:57.680 I mean that happens in another country and you assume 2:44:57.680 --> 2:45:00.720 you're being roped, like right, another part of the world. 2:45:00.920 --> 2:45:04.240 Like Also, it's notable that the vehicle doesn't have lights. 2:45:04.080 --> 2:45:05.160 It's not a cop car. 2:45:05.440 --> 2:45:08.960 No, it's not even a US made car like sometimes 2:45:09.080 --> 2:45:12.040 cops will use like non marked cars, but they're normally 2:45:12.160 --> 2:45:15.360 US manufactured right for or US companies for Chevy, etc. 2:45:15.760 --> 2:45:19.080 This is a Kia. Everything apart from a lanyard hanging 2:45:19.080 --> 2:45:21.920 around the guy's neck which is not identifiable. It's a badge. 2:45:22.120 --> 2:45:24.160 Certainly not at this speed. Certainly not while he's drawing 2:45:24.200 --> 2:45:27.680 a gun. From appendix carry points to this being someone 2:45:27.680 --> 2:45:28.400 trying to rub. 2:45:28.280 --> 2:45:28.680 Or kill you. 2:45:29.360 --> 2:45:29.959 Very scary. 2:45:30.280 --> 2:45:32.360 Yeah, I will say, I think the fact that they're 2:45:32.440 --> 2:45:35.360 being forced to do this in some sense is a 2:45:35.400 --> 2:45:36.560 sign that this is really working. 2:45:36.680 --> 2:45:38.520 It's pissing them off. The fact that people are keeping 2:45:38.560 --> 2:45:40.600 tabs on where I see it. Yeah, yeah, it's working. 2:45:40.800 --> 2:45:43.320 And like I keep saying, this is like they're the 2:45:43.360 --> 2:45:45.800 ones who are being forced to operate, is if they're 2:45:45.800 --> 2:45:48.080 working in a police state, Like they're the ones who 2:45:48.080 --> 2:45:49.800 are having to deal with surveillance. They're the ones who 2:45:49.840 --> 2:45:51.640 are having to deal with the fact that like if 2:45:51.640 --> 2:45:53.520 they stay in a place too long, they'll be beast 2:45:53.520 --> 2:45:56.359 mobilizations and people will just like drop the hammer on them. 2:45:56.640 --> 2:45:59.640 It's a really interesting look at what happens when you 2:45:59.720 --> 2:46:01.879 try to do this police state shit in a society 2:46:01.920 --> 2:46:04.720 where everyone fucking hates you, which is that all you 2:46:04.800 --> 2:46:07.920 really have is speed and terror totally. And so you 2:46:07.920 --> 2:46:09.720 know they're doing this shit right, like they're just trying 2:46:09.720 --> 2:46:12.680 to terrorize people into letting them do their police state stuff. 2:46:12.720 --> 2:46:15.640 But if people keep doing it right, it seriously is 2:46:15.680 --> 2:46:17.120 like denting their effectiveness a lot. 2:46:17.440 --> 2:46:20.600 Yeah, I've seen multiple videos like this. Eventually the ICE 2:46:20.640 --> 2:46:23.400 agents will call over some like state trooper or like 2:46:23.440 --> 2:46:26.240 a DHS guy who does not work or ICE directly 2:46:26.320 --> 2:46:29.280 to diffuse this situation. I've seen most of these situations 2:46:29.320 --> 2:46:32.920 get eventually diffused, but it's something to I think draw 2:46:32.959 --> 2:46:33.720 attention to right now. 2:46:33.800 --> 2:46:36.720 Yeah, I mean, if this keeps happening, it's likely to 2:46:36.920 --> 2:46:39.640 end in violence somewhere, right, I mean. 2:46:39.480 --> 2:46:41.760 This is the same thing when they're kidnapping college students 2:46:41.800 --> 2:46:43.160 without any clear identification. 2:46:43.520 --> 2:46:44.160 Yeah. 2:46:43.800 --> 2:46:46.680 Yeah, notably doing that in like New England states where 2:46:47.160 --> 2:46:50.120 people do not conceal carry firearms like regularly, as like 2:46:50.120 --> 2:46:51.879 a regular thing that like people do. 2:46:52.280 --> 2:46:54.200 Yeah, I mean, firelarms are not the only means of 2:46:54.240 --> 2:46:57.199 violence available to people like that. Lady seem very calm 2:46:57.240 --> 2:46:59.480 and commendably so, but like she could a step on 2:46:59.480 --> 2:47:00.680 the gas pedal car and. 2:47:00.840 --> 2:47:05.000 Totally absolutely right. Yeah, And obviously this person knows that 2:47:05.440 --> 2:47:07.600 the guy is ICED, because that's why she's following him. 2:47:08.000 --> 2:47:11.200 But if ICE just starts getting paranoid about cars behind them, 2:47:11.240 --> 2:47:13.760 if they think someone's following them, they can pull us 2:47:13.760 --> 2:47:14.800 on someone who's not doing ICE. 2:47:14.840 --> 2:47:15.080 Watch. 2:47:15.160 --> 2:47:17.080 Yeah, they could just pull us on anyone who they 2:47:17.120 --> 2:47:20.360 are like suspicious of, And I think that's when really 2:47:20.440 --> 2:47:24.040 dangerous situations could start breaking out between these like unmarked 2:47:24.080 --> 2:47:27.039 ICE agents and just regular citizens. 2:47:26.720 --> 2:47:28.400 And I think the odds of one of them just 2:47:29.000 --> 2:47:35.280 snapping and starting shooting is like not zero, because that's 2:47:35.280 --> 2:47:38.519 who these people are, and as they're increasingly put under stress. 2:47:38.240 --> 2:47:41.760 They're being trained to always be afraid of danger, like 2:47:41.800 --> 2:47:44.080 more so than even just like regular like cop stuff. 2:47:44.560 --> 2:47:47.160 Like they're talking about how like violence against ICE is 2:47:47.240 --> 2:47:50.279 up eight hundred percent, where the violence is like someone's 2:47:50.360 --> 2:47:53.520 head meets an ICE agent's fist, right, It's that sort 2:47:53.520 --> 2:47:55.960 of violence where it's like you're assaulting a cop by 2:47:56.080 --> 2:47:59.880 like partially resisting arrest in some way. But they are 2:48:00.040 --> 2:48:02.400 running those stats as if this is a real epidemic 2:48:02.400 --> 2:48:06.120 of violence against ICE agents right now. Another story I 2:48:06.200 --> 2:48:09.200 like to talk about is this deportation hoax story that 2:48:09.240 --> 2:48:12.480 I've seen going around social media. Seen it going around 2:48:12.520 --> 2:48:16.360 like our slash green card on Reddit, like TikTok, and 2:48:16.440 --> 2:48:20.400 even of local news stories across the country where ICE 2:48:20.480 --> 2:48:24.680 secretly deports an eighty two year old torture survivor and 2:48:24.959 --> 2:48:28.640 US legal resident for forty years. This man goes to 2:48:28.680 --> 2:48:31.920 an immigration office to replace a green card, and instead 2:48:31.959 --> 2:48:36.520 of that happening, ICE handcuffs him, detains him, denies access 2:48:36.520 --> 2:48:39.879 to a lawyer and deports him to Guatemala, a country 2:48:39.879 --> 2:48:42.879 where he is not from, with no official paperwork, and 2:48:42.920 --> 2:48:46.360 then is put into the hospital in Guatemala. This story 2:48:46.400 --> 2:48:49.560 got super viral the past week, and from what we 2:48:49.640 --> 2:48:51.760 can tell, this is not a real story. There was 2:48:51.800 --> 2:48:54.680 no immigration appointment in Philadelphia at the time of this 2:48:54.720 --> 2:48:56.920 spiral story. Guatemala says that the man is not in 2:48:57.000 --> 2:48:59.920 the country. The hospital he was alleged to be at. 2:49:00.240 --> 2:49:03.080 Doctors have said there's no man matching this description in 2:49:03.120 --> 2:49:06.800 the story, and the photos attached to this viral story 2:49:06.840 --> 2:49:09.520 of the man are not of this guy. The photos 2:49:09.520 --> 2:49:12.720 are of a guy who died three years ago. This is, 2:49:12.879 --> 2:49:15.440 from what we can tell, an entirely fabricated story that 2:49:15.480 --> 2:49:18.400 one local news outlet bought and then spread around from there. 2:49:19.080 --> 2:49:22.039 It's not even clear if, like the family members that 2:49:22.160 --> 2:49:25.240 were the original source of this even exist. It's not 2:49:25.280 --> 2:49:29.440 clear if this man even exists. So this is, from 2:49:29.440 --> 2:49:32.080 what we can tell right now, not real, not real 2:49:32.160 --> 2:49:35.640 at all, and this is something to keep him in mind. 2:49:35.840 --> 2:49:38.680 Just because a story is like scary and just because 2:49:38.720 --> 2:49:40.880 it's going viral does not necessarily mean it's true, and 2:49:41.720 --> 2:49:44.920 we don't need to be sharing fake stories of ICE 2:49:45.000 --> 2:49:48.240 deporting people or even going after Green card holders, because 2:49:48.280 --> 2:49:51.600 this is actually happening. This is happening in the country 2:49:51.640 --> 2:49:54.480 right now, and ICE is defying judicial orders. 2:49:54.959 --> 2:49:58.000 Yeah, So let's talk about one of those incidents, right. 2:49:58.040 --> 2:50:01.360 In this case, it's a man called Leonell Navaret Hernandez 2:50:01.400 --> 2:50:05.039 who filed a habeas suit in the Central District of 2:50:05.040 --> 2:50:08.440 California right against the Department of Home Lown Security. Let's 2:50:08.480 --> 2:50:10.360 get some background on his case first, and we can 2:50:10.480 --> 2:50:13.560 talk about this specific kind of not justifying court orders, 2:50:13.600 --> 2:50:16.400 but also the United States Constitution. So he fled to 2:50:16.400 --> 2:50:18.760 the United States in two thousand and nine after being 2:50:18.800 --> 2:50:21.320 pursued by the police and falsely accused of El Salvador 2:50:21.360 --> 2:50:24.040 and beaten by police several times. I'm going to quote 2:50:24.080 --> 2:50:28.199 from the court documents pretty extensively throughout this so quote 2:50:28.480 --> 2:50:32.280 including in one distance, beaten until he vomited blood, resulting 2:50:32.320 --> 2:50:34.720 in a cut on his head that scarred and a 2:50:34.760 --> 2:50:37.600 fractured finger. And quote in twenty twenty two, he was 2:50:37.640 --> 2:50:40.120 part of a targeted enforcement operation and he was issued 2:50:40.120 --> 2:50:42.760 a notice to appear and that he bonded out, right, 2:50:42.840 --> 2:50:47.440 So he posted like bail and he was out of detention. Right. 2:50:47.720 --> 2:50:50.400 In January twenty twenty four, he filed for his asylum. 2:50:50.600 --> 2:50:53.560 He didn't get asylum dus a timing of filing. He 2:50:53.600 --> 2:50:56.640 also asked for withholding of removal. I didn't get that 2:50:56.760 --> 2:50:59.360 because he quote failed to show that his proposed quote 2:50:59.400 --> 2:51:03.120 particular groups are cognizable or that his past harm was 2:51:03.160 --> 2:51:04.480 because of a protected ground. 2:51:04.560 --> 2:51:04.680 Right. 2:51:04.720 --> 2:51:06.880 So regular listeners will know that there are certain grounds 2:51:06.920 --> 2:51:09.920 on which one can obtain asylum and what has to 2:51:09.920 --> 2:51:13.200 be part of these certain categories to obtain asylum. What 2:51:13.320 --> 2:51:16.840 he did get was protection of removal under a convention 2:51:16.920 --> 2:51:20.840 against torture because again quoting, it is more likely than 2:51:20.879 --> 2:51:24.360 not that their respondent will be detained and tortured in 2:51:24.440 --> 2:51:27.440 El Salvador. El Salvador has put out an inter poll 2:51:27.600 --> 2:51:30.160 read alert for him. For some reason, they deeply wanted 2:51:30.240 --> 2:51:32.200 him back. Doesn't seem to be any evidence that this 2:51:32.240 --> 2:51:37.080 person committed crimes. Ice appealed this protection for removal right, 2:51:37.320 --> 2:51:39.879 and then the same day they appealed it, they detained 2:51:40.000 --> 2:51:43.160 him when he appeared at his intensive supervision appearance program. 2:51:43.280 --> 2:51:45.360 Check it, so, Ice ap rate. It's one of these 2:51:45.400 --> 2:51:48.000 things where instead of being detained, you appear at ice 2:51:48.040 --> 2:51:50.720 office and check in every now and again, as opposed 2:51:50.760 --> 2:51:52.800 to than just locking you up for the entire time. 2:51:53.240 --> 2:51:58.160 His partner then testified to that quote. Lionel called me 2:51:58.400 --> 2:52:01.440 and told me that he was arrested, says immigration officers 2:52:01.480 --> 2:52:03.440 went up to him and his IYESAP check in and 2:52:03.480 --> 2:52:05.920 told him he was under arrest. Lionel said he asked 2:52:05.959 --> 2:52:08.160 the officers why and informed them he had an order 2:52:08.200 --> 2:52:12.320 from the judge. The officer said something like judges don't Judges' 2:52:12.400 --> 2:52:14.080 orders don't matter only the president. 2:52:14.320 --> 2:52:18.760 Judges orders don't matter only the president. This is a 2:52:18.840 --> 2:52:22.320 rogue law enforcement agency in service of a rogue president. 2:52:22.600 --> 2:52:22.960 Like yeah. 2:52:23.480 --> 2:52:25.840 Leonel then told me that he told the officers he 2:52:25.840 --> 2:52:27.880 had an attorney. I'm still quoting from his partner here, 2:52:28.160 --> 2:52:31.080 but the officer said that doesn't matter either. 2:52:31.920 --> 2:52:35.280 He has an order forbidding his deportation, and they're telling 2:52:35.360 --> 2:52:38.000 him that doesn't matter because the president wants you out 2:52:38.040 --> 2:52:38.600 of the country. 2:52:38.680 --> 2:52:41.040 Yeah, exactly, And that is what they have done. Right, 2:52:41.080 --> 2:52:43.960 That was the entire rendition of people to l Salbadol 2:52:44.040 --> 2:52:46.760 was an end run around that, right, attempting to They're 2:52:46.800 --> 2:52:48.600 just like saying this to people, Yeah, because that's what 2:52:48.600 --> 2:52:51.000 they're doing. That's Warren. That's what they said to the court. Right, 2:52:51.080 --> 2:52:53.520 we sneaked him out before you could stop it. Yeah, 2:52:53.560 --> 2:52:56.160 So just to update people in his case, he called 2:52:56.160 --> 2:52:58.320 from jail in Santa Anna and said he was in 2:52:58.320 --> 2:52:59.960 a small space and he heard people being taken to 2:53:00.080 --> 2:53:02.480 San Diego or Texas. Then he had to hang up. 2:53:02.560 --> 2:53:06.760 He was moved around significantly, right all around, including into Texas. 2:53:06.760 --> 2:53:09.440 When he showed up on the detainee locator, the judge 2:53:09.440 --> 2:53:12.280 in the case issued attentive restraining order to prevent them 2:53:12.440 --> 2:53:15.520 from removing him. In detention, he was only allowed to 2:53:15.520 --> 2:53:18.280 make phone calls for three minutes, and in one of 2:53:18.280 --> 2:53:20.920 those calls, he told his partner that detention officers, I guess, 2:53:21.280 --> 2:53:23.840 were telling detainees they were going to be removed whether 2:53:23.959 --> 2:53:27.320 or not they signed deportation papers. In his case, the 2:53:27.400 --> 2:53:31.039 court has issued an injunction to prevent his removal or 2:53:31.080 --> 2:53:34.160 his read attention. So shout out to this Central District 2:53:34.160 --> 2:53:37.280 of California. I guess this is wild, right, this is 2:53:37.920 --> 2:53:39.119 dictatorial regime. 2:53:39.120 --> 2:53:39.320 Shit. 2:53:39.640 --> 2:53:41.520 You have no rights other than those a president decides 2:53:41.520 --> 2:53:43.160 to give to you. It's the subtext here. 2:53:43.320 --> 2:53:47.120 It's explicitly the fascist thing of like there are people 2:53:47.120 --> 2:53:49.560 who exist outside the legal order in order to maintain it, 2:53:49.600 --> 2:53:53.400 and that person is the fear. Like that, that's just 2:53:53.480 --> 2:53:57.240 what this is, right, Like it it's really explicit. 2:53:57.320 --> 2:53:58.960 I don't really know what people expect on them and 2:53:59.240 --> 2:54:00.920 you know, the expected dress like they're in the sound 2:54:00.920 --> 2:54:03.360 of music. You know, like this is what fascism looks like. 2:54:04.080 --> 2:54:05.920 Let's talk about some more immigration cases. 2:54:06.080 --> 2:54:08.759 What other immigration updates do we have, James. 2:54:08.560 --> 2:54:11.160 Yeah, well none of them are great, to be honest. 2:54:11.400 --> 2:54:13.600 No, the immigration segment has been a bit of a 2:54:13.640 --> 2:54:16.120 bummer in the past. Let me check my watch six months. 2:54:16.480 --> 2:54:20.520 Yeah, it's hard on the soul. A New Jersey district 2:54:20.520 --> 2:54:24.600 court has struck down the state's law forbidding private immigration detention. 2:54:25.080 --> 2:54:27.600 This also happened in California. Right, they said it was 2:54:27.640 --> 2:54:30.240 stay overy. So this was an issue. It's federal detention 2:54:30.280 --> 2:54:32.959 instead of fed to get to decide basically, right. So 2:54:33.040 --> 2:54:36.760 New Jersey had tried to stop Geo Group cour Civic, 2:54:36.800 --> 2:54:40.440 these massive detention operations from operating private immigration detention in 2:54:40.480 --> 2:54:43.840 the state. Couldn't get down one through the court. Probably 2:54:43.879 --> 2:54:46.560 the bigger story this week is that the federal government 2:54:46.560 --> 2:54:49.520 has signed a contract for a huge five thousand bed 2:54:49.959 --> 2:54:53.080 tent camp facility for migration detention of Fort Bliss. So 2:54:53.160 --> 2:54:57.360 according to reporting in Bloomberg, Bloomberg has reported that the 2:54:57.360 --> 2:55:00.320 contract totals one point twenty six billion. The only tract 2:55:00.360 --> 2:55:02.560 I was able to actually find was a Department of 2:55:02.600 --> 2:55:06.240 Defense contract for two hundred and thirty one million, eight 2:55:06.320 --> 2:55:08.879 hundred and seventy eight thousand, two hundred and twenty nine 2:55:08.920 --> 2:55:13.640 dollars to be precise. What is not being reported on this? 2:55:13.720 --> 2:55:17.640 And I don't understand why other than nobody reported on 2:55:17.680 --> 2:55:21.720 immigration during the Biden admitt Apparently people are looking for 2:55:21.760 --> 2:55:24.279 like analogues. What will this be like? Well, the Department 2:55:24.280 --> 2:55:27.200 of Defense operated a tent facility at Fort Bliss under 2:55:27.240 --> 2:55:31.280 Operation Allies Welcome for Afghan people arriving in the United States. 2:55:31.320 --> 2:55:34.320 So after the bungled withdrawal from Afghanistan, right, I interviewed 2:55:34.360 --> 2:55:37.080 one of them. I was freelancing for the nation at 2:55:37.080 --> 2:55:39.120 that time, and there'll be a link in the show notes. 2:55:39.600 --> 2:55:43.280 But the Afghanswa Howls did a place called Donja Anna Range, 2:55:43.320 --> 2:55:46.200 which is in New Mexico. So Bliss spans Texas and 2:55:46.280 --> 2:55:48.520 New Mexico. Right, this New complex needs to be in 2:55:48.520 --> 2:55:52.279 a different place because it will be quote unquote soft sided, 2:55:52.360 --> 2:55:55.600 which just needs tents. Right, But this one is accessible 2:55:55.600 --> 2:55:59.720 from El Paso streets and it's accessible without entering the 2:55:59.760 --> 2:56:01.680 Fort Bliss main gate, right, so people don't have to 2:56:01.720 --> 2:56:05.560 have on base clearance. The Afghan site had ninety eight tenths, 2:56:05.640 --> 2:56:08.560 which each held about one hundred people. This one will 2:56:08.560 --> 2:56:11.119 house five thousand people, so we can assume about five 2:56:11.200 --> 2:56:16.120 hundred tenths. Right. This contract for one point two six billion, 2:56:16.440 --> 2:56:18.360 Operation Allies Welcome was larger. 2:56:18.520 --> 2:56:18.640 Right. 2:56:18.680 --> 2:56:21.240 It did other things. For instance, all those people got 2:56:21.280 --> 2:56:23.440 their COVID vaccinations because they hadn't gotten them when they 2:56:23.440 --> 2:56:26.080 were in Afghanistan. A lot of other vaccinations too. That 2:56:26.080 --> 2:56:29.560 that spent three billion just in fiscal year twenty twenty 2:56:29.560 --> 2:56:32.520 two to give people a sense of the scale of 2:56:32.520 --> 2:56:34.320 these things. Right, So one point two six billion, it's 2:56:34.360 --> 2:56:35.959 not at all out of the question, and in fact 2:56:36.600 --> 2:56:38.480 brings me on to my next point, which is that 2:56:38.560 --> 2:56:42.320 it may be a bit low, given this company has 2:56:42.400 --> 2:56:44.160 no experience with this kind of operation. 2:56:44.360 --> 2:56:44.520 Right. 2:56:44.560 --> 2:56:47.040 One of the questions we asked back in November when 2:56:47.080 --> 2:56:50.520 we did are like what could happen under Trump is 2:56:50.560 --> 2:56:52.879 how will they stand up these facilities. Who has the 2:56:52.920 --> 2:56:56.000 experience to do it well? This company does not have 2:56:56.040 --> 2:56:58.400 the experience to do it right. They've never done anything 2:56:58.480 --> 2:57:00.920 like this before. They have some logistic common practice DoD, 2:57:01.560 --> 2:57:04.400 but they do not have the capacity. At least they 2:57:04.400 --> 2:57:06.120 have not shown that they have the capacity to do 2:57:06.160 --> 2:57:09.480 anything on this scale. The DoD operation used a lot 2:57:09.480 --> 2:57:12.959 of contractors as well as defact dining facility for food. 2:57:13.040 --> 2:57:14.640 And I just want to quote some of the people 2:57:14.800 --> 2:57:17.080 I called a bull who I talked to, who was 2:57:17.120 --> 2:57:20.680 in that detention facility. Quote for the past month, nighttime 2:57:20.720 --> 2:57:22.800 was the most horrible time for us because every day 2:57:22.800 --> 2:57:24.880 it got colder. We didn't have enough warm clothes or 2:57:24.920 --> 2:57:27.400 any thick blankets to fight against the cold. They gave 2:57:27.480 --> 2:57:29.360 us a blanket that was so thin we could see 2:57:29.400 --> 2:57:32.120 through it. These are people who in some cases fought 2:57:32.160 --> 2:57:35.800 alongside United States soldiers right like, it's not going to 2:57:35.800 --> 2:57:39.280 be better for migrants. Ball also told me the food 2:57:39.440 --> 2:57:41.840 wasn't great. He said, quote it's not cooked enough or 2:57:41.840 --> 2:57:44.520 it's burned. He did say that he appreciated the quote. 2:57:44.640 --> 2:57:47.199 The guy doing the cooking was always asking for feedback. 2:57:47.640 --> 2:57:51.280 They tried to cook Afghan food, I guess, and yeah, yeah, 2:57:51.280 --> 2:57:54.680 he appreciated the effort to cook food that interesting. Yeah, 2:57:54.760 --> 2:57:56.600 I mean they ain't going to try that now this time, right, 2:57:56.720 --> 2:58:01.599 but not, for instance, provide halal food, which was a consideration. 2:58:01.879 --> 2:58:03.400 I'm assuming this time they're going to be getting the 2:58:03.400 --> 2:58:05.360 fucking boldy food from Florida. 2:58:05.600 --> 2:58:07.760 Yeah, I mean, the United States has a whole bunch 2:58:07.760 --> 2:58:09.480 of food should have gone out to many of the 2:58:09.520 --> 2:58:11.600 starving people around the world, right, but yet has been 2:58:11.640 --> 2:58:13.800 left to mold and warehouses. So yeah, they might be 2:58:13.920 --> 2:58:18.360 eating the high energy biscuits or the humrats. Talking of food, 2:58:19.600 --> 2:58:23.480 Human Rights Watch has reached a report detailing human rights 2:58:23.480 --> 2:58:27.400 abuses at detention centers. The report focuses on Chrome North 2:58:27.560 --> 2:58:32.160 Service Processing Center aka a Chrome, the Brower Transitional Center, 2:58:32.640 --> 2:58:35.240 and the Federal Detention Center. All of these are in Florida. 2:58:35.360 --> 2:58:38.240 Are those first two like privately owned better than being 2:58:38.680 --> 2:58:40.920 leased or like licensed out to the government. 2:58:41.040 --> 2:58:44.520 Yes, they're run by contractors for the government for immigration 2:58:44.600 --> 2:58:47.680 detencent We've talked about Chrome before. It was one that 2:58:47.720 --> 2:58:49.880 was already ever crowded, had two deaths. 2:58:50.160 --> 2:58:52.200 It's also the name that I would pick for like 2:58:52.240 --> 2:58:56.360 an evil agency who gets the private prison. Yeah, it's 2:58:57.120 --> 2:58:59.080 it's chrome with a K with a K too, which 2:58:59.080 --> 2:58:59.920 makes it more evil. 2:59:00.680 --> 2:59:03.320 So the incidence detailed in this report pretty pretty bad. 2:59:03.440 --> 2:59:06.440 They include people being forced to eat like dogs with 2:59:06.480 --> 2:59:10.120 a hands tied behind their back. They include people being 2:59:10.160 --> 2:59:13.240 punished and put in solitary confinement for seeking medical or 2:59:13.320 --> 2:59:15.960 mental health help and having their hands tipped. I had 2:59:15.959 --> 2:59:18.520 and been forced to lay down on wet floors, as 2:59:18.520 --> 2:59:21.000 it's very common in ice facilities. The air conditioning was 2:59:21.040 --> 2:59:23.800 turned up very high to make it uncomfortably cold. 2:59:23.920 --> 2:59:25.480 Like the Florida bomb. 2:59:25.840 --> 2:59:28.360 Yeah, this is the case in every immigration detention to 2:59:28.360 --> 2:59:30.720 the facility that I've heard about. Right, the Spanish word 2:59:30.800 --> 2:59:33.440 is it translates to ice box. Is the word that 2:59:33.480 --> 2:59:37.600 people used to refer That's the colloquial term for these facilities. Right. 2:59:38.400 --> 2:59:43.080 The FDC staff also used stun grenades and physical force 2:59:43.200 --> 2:59:47.200 against detainees protesting denial of food, water, medical attention. The 2:59:47.280 --> 2:59:50.039 report details people being detained in crowdedge cells with no 2:59:50.120 --> 2:59:54.160 beds or bedding and denied essential medications. Really a couple 2:59:54.200 --> 2:59:57.600 of quotes from people interviewed in the report here quote, 2:59:57.640 --> 2:59:59.680 you could not fall asleep because it was so cold, 3:00:00.080 --> 3:00:02.840 I thought I was going to experience hypothermia. One said, 3:00:03.879 --> 3:00:07.119 it's like psychological abuse. You feel like your life is over, 3:00:07.320 --> 3:00:07.920 said another. 3:00:20.800 --> 3:00:24.520 All right, we're back. This past week, the World Food 3:00:24.520 --> 3:00:29.240 Program released a new report on food scarcity in Gaza 3:00:29.800 --> 3:00:33.560 enforced through the Israeli military, and also discussed a quote 3:00:33.600 --> 3:00:36.160 unquote deadly incident this past Sunday in which dozens of 3:00:36.160 --> 3:00:40.039 civilians were killed and injured while waiting to access food 3:00:40.160 --> 3:00:43.840 as a World Food Program convoy was entering northern Gaza. 3:00:44.240 --> 3:00:47.320 The Director of Emergency Preparedness and Response, Ross Smith said, 3:00:47.400 --> 3:00:50.640 quote yesterday's incident is one of the greatest tragedies we've 3:00:50.680 --> 3:00:54.199 seen for our operations in Gaza and elsewhere while we're 3:00:54.200 --> 3:00:57.320 trying to work, and it's completely avoidable, and it's an 3:00:57.320 --> 3:01:02.160 absolute tragedy. Currently, food safety experts warned that one in 3:01:02.240 --> 3:01:06.640 five people in Gaza face enforced starvation. I'm going to 3:01:06.720 --> 3:01:09.800 quote from the un here, quote, mister Smith said. World 3:01:09.879 --> 3:01:12.560 Food Program assessments show that a quarter of the population 3:01:12.680 --> 3:01:15.600 is facing famine like conditions. Almost one hundred thousand women 3:01:15.600 --> 3:01:19.240 and children are suffering from severe acute malnutrition and need 3:01:19.280 --> 3:01:22.800 treatment as soon as possible, pointing to reports. He said, quote, 3:01:22.920 --> 3:01:26.000 people are dying from a lack of humanitarian assistance every day, 3:01:26.280 --> 3:01:29.480 and we are seeing this escalate day by day, saying 3:01:29.480 --> 3:01:32.400 that food and humanitarian assistance are quote the only solution 3:01:32.440 --> 3:01:34.600 at the moment for Gaza unquote. 3:01:35.720 --> 3:01:38.199 And it's worth emphasizing with this that like, the food 3:01:38.520 --> 3:01:41.959 is there, it is literally just sitting and warehouses, like 3:01:42.120 --> 3:01:44.640 they can bring it in the moment the blockade lifts, 3:01:44.800 --> 3:01:46.160 but the Israelis don't. 3:01:45.920 --> 3:01:49.880 Worry bombing people bringing food into Gaza at this point. 3:01:50.160 --> 3:01:53.760 Then they keep on doing this thing where they'll be like, oh, 3:01:53.760 --> 3:01:57.040 we have food, and then they shoot everyone who shows food. 3:01:57.640 --> 3:02:00.960 So this is something that World Food Program has been saying, quote. 3:02:01.200 --> 3:02:04.199 We also need to have no armed actors near food 3:02:04.200 --> 3:02:06.879 and distribution points, near our convoys, and near the movement 3:02:06.879 --> 3:02:09.000 of those convoys from one place to another. 3:02:09.840 --> 3:02:12.360 This is basic humanitarian agient. This is like one oh 3:02:12.360 --> 3:02:15.800 one fucking operating humanitarian resources in a conflict zone. 3:02:15.840 --> 3:02:16.120 Stuff. 3:02:16.160 --> 3:02:20.000 This isn't new stuff, right. This is asking the IDF 3:02:20.040 --> 3:02:23.000 to do what you would expect any reasonable actor to 3:02:23.000 --> 3:02:27.120 do in one of these situations. Obviously, the IDF not 3:02:27.640 --> 3:02:29.160 a particularly reasonable actor. 3:02:29.240 --> 3:02:32.640 Rain speaking of things they don't like, Oh. 3:02:32.520 --> 3:02:36.760 Garrison, you cannot compare the work of Joe drama to 3:02:36.959 --> 3:02:41.320 the ideas unreasonable Jesus Christ. 3:02:41.480 --> 3:02:45.240 If I don't like Jesus Christ, all right, welcome to 3:02:45.320 --> 3:02:47.760 tariff talk thing where I had no role in the 3:02:47.800 --> 3:02:49.119 prior transition to it. 3:02:50.200 --> 3:02:54.119 So we've gotten a few teriff deals over the week. 3:02:54.240 --> 3:02:57.920 We got one with the Philippines where Trump was negotiated 3:02:57.959 --> 3:03:01.800 a deal for a nineteen percent on all goods in 3:03:01.800 --> 3:03:04.880 the Philippines coming to the US. There's also been a 3:03:04.879 --> 3:03:08.360 deal established with Japan where we're out of terriforate of 3:03:08.400 --> 3:03:12.080 fifteen percent. This one also has and there's been a 3:03:12.120 --> 3:03:14.800 few of these deals that have things like this where 3:03:15.440 --> 3:03:18.640 Japan also had to agree to invest five hundred and 3:03:18.680 --> 3:03:22.000 fifty billion dollars in the US. It's really unclear how 3:03:22.040 --> 3:03:26.000 that's going to work, like it might just be loans. 3:03:26.280 --> 3:03:26.720 That's the part. 3:03:26.720 --> 3:03:28.720 I don't even know if it's going to happen, because 3:03:28.760 --> 3:03:31.959 it's so staggeringly fuzzy and unclear as to what any 3:03:32.000 --> 3:03:35.120 of that means. Trump has been talking about how there's 3:03:35.160 --> 3:03:37.560 going to be like a ninety ten profit split where 3:03:37.600 --> 3:03:40.039 Americans take home ninety percent of the profits in Japan 3:03:40.040 --> 3:03:44.800 takes on tempers very weird, very weird. This is also look, 3:03:44.840 --> 3:03:48.160 it's worth noting that the last time we deliberately decaped 3:03:48.240 --> 3:03:52.320 Japan's export manufacturing economy, dreading the Plaza Accords, it kicked 3:03:52.320 --> 3:03:55.440 off in economic crisis that Japan has literally never recovered from. 3:03:55.879 --> 3:03:57.920 Like people used to talk about the Japanese economy in 3:03:57.920 --> 3:03:59.640 the way that we talk about the Chinese economy now 3:03:59.720 --> 3:04:01.960 is like emerging rising on stoppable force that was going 3:04:02.040 --> 3:04:05.520 to like become the world's greatest manufacturing power, and we 3:04:05.560 --> 3:04:08.320 don't do that anymore, partially because of like Japan hit 3:04:08.400 --> 3:04:10.840 like structural overcapacity in the market blah blah blah blah blah. 3:04:10.840 --> 3:04:12.800 Listen to me on every other episode where I talk 3:04:12.800 --> 3:04:17.960 about the Plosa Accords and structural global manufacturing overcapacity. But again, 3:04:18.000 --> 3:04:20.640 the second thing is we also made their manufacturing less 3:04:20.640 --> 3:04:23.720 competitive and it destroyed the entire global economy. Like it's 3:04:23.720 --> 3:04:26.560 the reason two thousand and eight happened is because we 3:04:26.600 --> 3:04:29.680 did that, and we're doing it again. Like twenty eight 3:04:29.760 --> 3:04:32.960 percent of the Japanese economy is based on like car exports, 3:04:33.080 --> 3:04:37.640 so that's great, that's fun. There's also been reports that 3:04:37.720 --> 3:04:41.320 there's a deal with the EU coming. I don't know 3:04:41.640 --> 3:04:43.840 who knows. I'm not gonna say what's in it because 3:04:43.959 --> 3:04:45.760 we don't know if this is going to happen. There's 3:04:46.400 --> 3:04:48.000 that one in particular. There's a lot of things that 3:04:48.040 --> 3:04:51.880 can torpedo it, but it's not great. Also, these terrorists, 3:04:51.879 --> 3:04:53.520 by the way, are replacing the ones that are scheduled 3:04:53.520 --> 3:04:55.480 to go into effect on August first. Trump is still 3:04:55.480 --> 3:04:58.280 promising to put out tariff things for one hundred and 3:04:58.320 --> 3:05:01.480 twenty countries or something like that. I don't know then 3:05:01.600 --> 3:05:03.440 what the number is exactly right now. It keeps changing. 3:05:03.600 --> 3:05:06.320 He's also not writing those letters, so who knows. 3:05:06.440 --> 3:05:07.120 Silky Doki. 3:05:07.360 --> 3:05:09.840 Yeah, great way to have terrorist policy, say is that 3:05:09.879 --> 3:05:14.200 Trump says something on truth social and then doesn't do it. 3:05:14.959 --> 3:05:17.520 And sometimes he does, yes, sometimes he does. 3:05:18.120 --> 3:05:20.000 It's good. It's a good way to do things. 3:05:20.560 --> 3:05:22.199 It's okay. 3:05:22.280 --> 3:05:24.480 So speaking of things being done badly, we need to 3:05:24.520 --> 3:05:28.560 talk about NPR and PBS because Republic has just cut 3:05:28.560 --> 3:05:31.480 one point one billion dollars from public broadcasting, which is 3:05:31.800 --> 3:05:32.280 like all. 3:05:32.200 --> 3:05:34.800 Again, we were reported on what Elmo said last week. 3:05:34.800 --> 3:05:38.080 It's not a surprise that PBS is getting cut after this. 3:05:38.720 --> 3:05:42.120 I actually language hold on, we have not on this 3:05:42.240 --> 3:05:46.240 show talked about the fact that PBS like sold Sesame Street. 3:05:46.560 --> 3:05:50.080 Yes, that's true. This is so ghoulish, like it does 3:05:50.280 --> 3:05:52.480 Jenny whyee? Sesame Street was like one. 3:05:52.280 --> 3:05:56.000 Of the few, like really truly great triumphs of American 3:05:56.000 --> 3:05:58.440 state media, Like it was specifically designed to teach kids 3:05:58.480 --> 3:06:00.120 in underprivileged backgrounds. 3:05:59.680 --> 3:06:02.120 How to Now it's on like like HBO, Max or 3:06:02.120 --> 3:06:04.199 Netflix or something. I think some posites are still available 3:06:04.240 --> 3:06:05.160 on public podcasting. 3:06:05.200 --> 3:06:06.879 Some of it's in a public domain, like it's probably 3:06:06.920 --> 3:06:08.480 on youtubecause it's been out for SOTI. 3:06:08.600 --> 3:06:08.800 Yeah. 3:06:08.800 --> 3:06:10.840 But like the problem is, like, this is Jenni Wineley, 3:06:10.920 --> 3:06:14.240 one of the greatest public goods the US ever created, 3:06:14.320 --> 3:06:18.800 and it was fucking looted and privatized. And now as 3:06:18.840 --> 3:06:20.680 all of this funding is being cut, Trump has basically 3:06:20.720 --> 3:06:23.560 been pissed off at public podcasting for ages. 3:06:24.240 --> 3:06:25.840 Actually, hilariously a lot of this. 3:06:26.320 --> 3:06:28.520 One of the big origin points of this was that 3:06:28.560 --> 3:06:31.920 they had friend of the show, Vicky Osterweil on NPR 3:06:32.080 --> 3:06:34.760 to do an interview about her book in Defensive Looting 3:06:34.800 --> 3:06:36.560 and Republican's been mad ever since. 3:06:36.959 --> 3:06:39.400 Like a few months ago, Trump sign an executive order 3:06:39.440 --> 3:06:44.440 to quote unquote end taxpayer subsidation of biased media, which 3:06:44.640 --> 3:06:49.160 specifically sought to defund MPR and PBS through ending contributions 3:06:49.200 --> 3:06:52.560 through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in the order of saying, 3:06:52.600 --> 3:06:55.000 quote government funding of news media in this environment is 3:06:55.000 --> 3:06:58.720 not only outdated and unnecessary, but corrosive to the appearance 3:06:59.000 --> 3:07:04.760 of journalistic independence. And instead they replaced the role of 3:07:04.879 --> 3:07:08.680 PVS and NPR with One American News, the super far 3:07:08.760 --> 3:07:11.960 right mode in sending like American News overseas. Instead of 3:07:12.040 --> 3:07:14.960 promoting things like the Voice of America, they are explicitly 3:07:15.360 --> 3:07:19.000 entering a partnership with oa N which is of the. 3:07:19.120 --> 3:07:22.560 Certain stuff like Voice of American News and the Cuban 3:07:22.600 --> 3:07:26.120 Broadcasting Office right like where they which are explicitly like 3:07:26.160 --> 3:07:28.280 these are things the US government goes to to advance 3:07:28.320 --> 3:07:29.920 its a gender abroad like this isn't. 3:07:30.200 --> 3:07:31.920 And now the way that they're doing that is with 3:07:32.040 --> 3:07:32.879 One America. 3:07:32.600 --> 3:07:34.480 Which is really funny because that probably does make it 3:07:34.560 --> 3:07:36.640 less effective. I do want to circle back a little 3:07:36.680 --> 3:07:38.680 bit to what this is going to do to NPR 3:07:38.720 --> 3:07:42.560 and PPS because like the main central NPR, I mean, 3:07:42.600 --> 3:07:45.720 obviously it's a disaster for even like the National MPR, 3:07:46.240 --> 3:07:50.720 but like this is going to just annihilate any semplages 3:07:50.840 --> 3:07:54.200 of like local news, right, like yeah, because they rely 3:07:54.280 --> 3:07:57.519 on public broadcasting and NPR massively around the country. 3:07:57.360 --> 3:07:58.600 Especially in rural areas. 3:07:58.640 --> 3:08:00.120 Like one of the portsoyz ridicle was talking about how 3:08:00.200 --> 3:08:02.280 like Texas was expecting to lose half of their like 3:08:02.440 --> 3:08:05.680 NPR stations and like rural areas. This is just like 3:08:06.120 --> 3:08:08.959 the apocalypse for any kind of like rural local news. 3:08:09.600 --> 3:08:11.360 And you know, obviously, like this is a part of 3:08:11.640 --> 3:08:15.440 trust attempt to just consolidate all of the American media 3:08:15.520 --> 3:08:18.760 under his control through a combination of destroying this kind 3:08:18.800 --> 3:08:22.040 of stuff and then doing lawsuits. And also, and this 3:08:22.160 --> 3:08:24.640 is another thing we need to talk about is like Garrison, 3:08:24.680 --> 3:08:27.520 you talked about this Guidiance merger and how that you know, 3:08:27.680 --> 3:08:30.520 is being used as leverage to like just destroy the 3:08:30.640 --> 3:08:33.440 gut CBS, loot it and turn it into just like 3:08:33.480 --> 3:08:34.720 a pro Trumpet outlet, right. 3:08:35.240 --> 3:08:39.760 Like allegedly entering in a cooperation deal with the Free 3:08:39.959 --> 3:08:45.040 Press from Barry Weiss to exert editorial control over CBS News, 3:08:45.160 --> 3:08:48.080 which we'll just take the outlet destroy. Sixty minutes, one 3:08:48.080 --> 3:08:51.560 of the most respectable, longstanding television news programs in the 3:08:51.640 --> 3:08:52.360 history of the country. 3:08:52.520 --> 3:08:54.000 I think there's a very good argument that this is 3:08:54.040 --> 3:08:56.400 what Bezos is doing to the Washington Post. Right, is 3:08:56.480 --> 3:08:59.280 better for these people that news outlets don't exist or 3:08:59.560 --> 3:09:02.360 like seven people read the like unhandedbar right things, than 3:09:02.400 --> 3:09:04.360 it is for like anything to actually exist. This is 3:09:04.400 --> 3:09:08.000 all again like media consolidation of a diictorial regime, being 3:09:08.680 --> 3:09:11.119 accelerated by the fact that all of these things are 3:09:11.480 --> 3:09:14.199 owned either by corporations or individual billionaires. 3:09:14.760 --> 3:09:15.760 So that's bad. 3:09:16.280 --> 3:09:20.200 Speaking of bad, the EPA's Office of Research has just 3:09:20.240 --> 3:09:21.000 been eliminated. 3:09:21.360 --> 3:09:25.960 This is a unbelievable. 3:09:25.160 --> 3:09:28.600 Catastrophe because the EPA's Office of Research does all of 3:09:28.720 --> 3:09:31.880 the basic research about like is this chemical dangerous? What 3:09:31.959 --> 3:09:34.160 does this chemical do to the environment, what does like 3:09:34.240 --> 3:09:36.640 what do these pollution levels do? This is the part 3:09:36.720 --> 3:09:40.000 of the EPA that undergirds like basically all environmental regulations 3:09:40.040 --> 3:09:43.120 and all regulations on things like chemical protection. Right, it 3:09:43.240 --> 3:09:45.840 comes out of this Office of Research. That's where the 3:09:46.000 --> 3:09:49.120 standards are set. That's where the science has done that 3:09:49.280 --> 3:09:52.720 is used in basically like all like regulatory policy that 3:09:52.800 --> 3:09:56.040 the EPA does that other agencies used to and they're 3:09:56.080 --> 3:09:58.240 just destroying it. Trump has said that they're going to 3:09:58.360 --> 3:10:00.680 move some of it to other offices, but they've already 3:10:00.720 --> 3:10:04.120 been massively downsizing the EPA. Every day we edge closer 3:10:04.200 --> 3:10:05.600 and closers who are just like, this is the country 3:10:05.640 --> 3:10:07.000 with no environmental regulations. 3:10:07.320 --> 3:10:08.800 We're seeing it more and more. 3:10:09.040 --> 3:10:10.480 At some point on the show, we're going to cover 3:10:11.160 --> 3:10:14.600 all of the unhinged shit that's been happening with the 3:10:14.720 --> 3:10:18.000 power stations and like generators set up to power AI stuff. 3:10:18.879 --> 3:10:21.640 I also want to specifically mention one of the things 3:10:21.680 --> 3:10:24.000 that the New York Times reported on, which is that 3:10:24.120 --> 3:10:27.160 the people who are running the destruction of the EPA 3:10:28.080 --> 3:10:30.119 have been trying to get rid of the integrated risk 3:10:30.200 --> 3:10:34.880 information system, which, if you've ever dealt with dangerous chemicals, 3:10:35.120 --> 3:10:37.680 the integrated risk information system is the system that tells 3:10:37.720 --> 3:10:39.560 you what the effects of it are. Every chemical has 3:10:39.600 --> 3:10:44.600 one right and these fucking people like there's a guy 3:10:44.680 --> 3:10:47.200 who's now in the American First Policy Institute, which like 3:10:47.320 --> 3:10:49.560 Trump pulls a lot of shit from, who is literally 3:10:49.680 --> 3:10:53.560 talking about just getting rid of it because quote, IRIS 3:10:53.680 --> 3:10:57.920 evaluations often rely on worst case scenario hazard assumptions that 3:10:58.000 --> 3:10:59.959 fail to consider real world exposure. 3:11:00.520 --> 3:11:02.480 That's kind of the situation with these things, isn't you 3:11:02.520 --> 3:11:04.160 don't want to look at the worst case scenario. 3:11:04.560 --> 3:11:06.760 Yes, And when you don't look at the worst case scenario. 3:11:06.959 --> 3:11:09.520 One of the other agencies that's been like just destroyed 3:11:09.800 --> 3:11:13.360 is the US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, which 3:11:13.440 --> 3:11:15.320 is very famous for doing a bunch of very very 3:11:15.360 --> 3:11:19.320 good YouTube videos about like plant disasters and like how 3:11:19.400 --> 3:11:23.360 safety violations and safety lapse has caused like fucking plants 3:11:23.400 --> 3:11:24.039 to explode. 3:11:24.720 --> 3:11:25.800 And that's just like gone now. 3:11:26.720 --> 3:11:29.240 And this is, you know, the world that these people 3:11:29.280 --> 3:11:31.120 want you to live in is a world in which 3:11:31.160 --> 3:11:34.600 you don't know what all of these corporations are pumping 3:11:34.600 --> 3:11:36.440 into the environment around you. And even if you can 3:11:36.480 --> 3:11:39.120 figure out what the chemicals they're pumping, like into the 3:11:39.160 --> 3:11:42.320 groundwater that you're drinking is, you're not supposed to know 3:11:42.440 --> 3:11:45.480 what it does. This is just like the basic infrastructure 3:11:45.520 --> 3:11:51.600 for how all American like chemical operations work, and they're 3:11:51.720 --> 3:11:53.040 just trying to destroy it. 3:11:53.600 --> 3:11:53.800 You know. 3:11:53.920 --> 3:11:58.360 Great, speaking of chemicals. 3:11:58.560 --> 3:12:01.120 Yeah, speaking of chemicals and the gun trying to destroy it. 3:12:01.520 --> 3:12:05.400 The government of Puerto Rico has passed a bill that 3:12:05.720 --> 3:12:09.080 bans gender affirming care of all kinds for anyone under 3:12:09.120 --> 3:12:12.080 the age of twenty one, because twenty one is the age, 3:12:12.120 --> 3:12:14.680 the highest that we've seen. So what's happening here is 3:12:14.760 --> 3:12:17.040 twenty one is the age which become a legal adult 3:12:17.120 --> 3:12:19.720 in Puerto Rico, which is unhinged. Yeah, this is the 3:12:19.760 --> 3:12:21.320 highest band we've seen. We've seen a couple of other 3:12:21.320 --> 3:12:25.000 places try to do it to nineteen. This also includes 3:12:25.040 --> 3:12:29.480 what's basically a high amendment for transcare, like all transcare 3:12:29.560 --> 3:12:31.840 of all ages that says that like state money cannot 3:12:31.840 --> 3:12:34.560 be used, so state insurance stuff like that in Puerto 3:12:34.600 --> 3:12:37.879 Rico cannot be used to pay for any gender affirming 3:12:37.959 --> 3:12:42.360 care at all, which is fucking hideous. This is basically 3:12:42.400 --> 3:12:44.080 the thing we were trying to stop with medicaid, where 3:12:44.160 --> 3:12:46.440 we did stop Medicaid the Lost Budget bill, but they've 3:12:46.480 --> 3:12:49.640 passed a local version of it. This bill promises us. 3:12:49.640 --> 3:12:51.440 I think it's up to five years in prison and 3:12:51.520 --> 3:12:54.480 fifteen thousand dollars in fines for anyone who gives trans 3:12:54.560 --> 3:12:56.320 healthcare to anyone under the age of twenty one. 3:12:56.720 --> 3:12:58.879 So if you never planned to visit Puerto Rico, it's 3:12:58.920 --> 3:13:02.000 time to start mailing gender firm and care services to 3:13:02.200 --> 3:13:03.240 people in Puerto Rico. 3:13:03.720 --> 3:13:07.000 The fun part too, is this law is worded so 3:13:07.240 --> 3:13:11.360 loosely that there is genuine concern that it could apply 3:13:11.480 --> 3:13:14.800 to Like if you are a parent and you try 3:13:14.840 --> 3:13:18.240 to get your kid gender firman care, this could apply 3:13:18.360 --> 3:13:18.520 to you. 3:13:18.879 --> 3:13:20.320 There's I will say, I think that aspect of it 3:13:20.480 --> 3:13:22.040 is still a little bit unclear. I don't want to 3:13:22.400 --> 3:13:26.120 inspire too much panic in that sense. I think a 3:13:26.160 --> 3:13:28.240 lot of it is directed at people who work in 3:13:28.280 --> 3:13:31.720 the medical industry. But still I think if you do 3:13:31.840 --> 3:13:34.480 not ever want to visit Puerto Rico and you want 3:13:34.520 --> 3:13:37.039 to help trans people, because presumably. 3:13:36.680 --> 3:13:39.920 Like no ban on like the import of these products, right, 3:13:39.920 --> 3:13:41.920 I guess some products themselves controlled. 3:13:42.320 --> 3:13:46.640 Yeah, I mean in chal law, they don't start doing that. 3:13:47.040 --> 3:13:51.320 But because famously there's never illegal drugs mailed in the 3:13:51.440 --> 3:13:55.720 United States, they can't stop us US. We're getting the 3:13:55.879 --> 3:13:59.160 HRT one way or another. But this sucks, and it 3:13:59.200 --> 3:14:01.840 will force people to adapt, and it's a really unfortunate 3:14:01.920 --> 3:14:04.000 to see. But I do believe in the ability which 3:14:04.000 --> 3:14:07.800 tries people to overcome the state's attacks against us. Before 3:14:07.840 --> 3:14:10.400 we close, there's actually one other piece of important news 3:14:10.440 --> 3:14:12.760 that we need to discuss. We're turning once again to 3:14:12.800 --> 3:14:17.320 the Stinky Musky segment, because the Tesla Diner has finally opened. 3:14:17.400 --> 3:14:20.480 I know we've been waiting for this for a long time. 3:14:21.320 --> 3:14:24.640 It is open in La, right right, yeah, so James, 3:14:24.800 --> 3:14:26.880 you need to get up there and go to the 3:14:26.959 --> 3:14:32.320 Tesla Diner. They have cyber truck food containers, so that's cool. Cool. 3:14:32.520 --> 3:14:36.040 They have Tesla robots helping to serve food and drinks. 3:14:36.360 --> 3:14:39.240 It's what they're calling retro futurist style. I would never 3:14:39.280 --> 3:14:42.760 say that. And most importantly, if you want to spend 3:14:42.800 --> 3:14:46.080 twelve dollars, you can get yourself a single serving of 3:14:46.480 --> 3:14:49.440 epic bacon that's on the menu. It's called epic Bacon 3:14:50.000 --> 3:14:53.920 for twelve dollars. Twelve dollars epic bacon at the Tesla 3:14:54.040 --> 3:14:57.480 Dinars twelve oh. They also opened it at four twenty. 3:14:58.080 --> 3:14:59.960 I saw that they also have avocato toast, which is 3:15:00.080 --> 3:15:02.000 great for those of us who will never afford a home. 3:15:02.760 --> 3:15:05.360 I can't support the Tesla Diners serving this lib cock 3:15:05.560 --> 3:15:08.960 avocado toes. It needs to be beef tallow fries. 3:15:09.360 --> 3:15:12.920 Well, unfortunately, they did put buttermilk bread with avocado toes, 3:15:13.000 --> 3:15:15.160 so just so like vegan people can't eat there. I 3:15:15.200 --> 3:15:18.440 guess there you go. Yeah, and again I cannot go 3:15:18.600 --> 3:15:21.200 to the testa diner. I don't have to return to 3:15:21.360 --> 3:15:23.960 Buffalo wild Wings at two am like I did when 3:15:24.000 --> 3:15:26.000 I was up in LA covering the protest a few 3:15:26.040 --> 3:15:26.440 weeks ago. 3:15:28.440 --> 3:15:30.040 Four wild Wings open that late. 3:15:31.560 --> 3:15:32.879 Let me tell you it was no time. 3:15:33.360 --> 3:15:36.160 What other time are you going to be eating Buffalo 3:15:36.320 --> 3:15:37.160 wild wings? 3:15:38.600 --> 3:15:41.199 Are you launching there like a fucking psycho. 3:15:42.720 --> 3:15:43.440 In college? 3:15:43.600 --> 3:15:46.320 But it was a good time back in the This 3:15:46.400 --> 3:15:49.240 is a great time. God, no one looked to be 3:15:49.320 --> 3:15:51.760 weird for wearing a fucking plate carrier with press. 3:15:53.320 --> 3:15:57.160 Buffalo is a war zone. It's basically one step removed 3:15:57.200 --> 3:15:58.320 from like waffle house. 3:15:58.560 --> 3:16:01.240 Yeah yeah, which is in turn wanted to removed from Falujah. 3:16:01.360 --> 3:16:03.920 So James, I thought that you wanted to plug. 3:16:04.080 --> 3:16:07.000 Well that's right, Okay. So we do have an email address. 3:16:07.000 --> 3:16:09.520 It's a encrypted email address, and you can send us 3:16:09.560 --> 3:16:14.560 emails there. It is cool Zone tips at proton dot me. 3:16:15.080 --> 3:16:17.959 What's it going to include? A fundraiser this week? We're 3:16:17.959 --> 3:16:19.600 trying to do one of these every week if there's 3:16:19.640 --> 3:16:22.800 someone in your community, Like we're trying to focus on 3:16:22.840 --> 3:16:25.520 micro fundraisers, people who are raising money for legal a 3:16:25.680 --> 3:16:29.040 people who need representation. I know immigration lawyers are either 3:16:29.160 --> 3:16:32.440 overworked or overpriced. It seems to be like like two 3:16:32.520 --> 3:16:33.720 brackets that they've gone into. 3:16:34.480 --> 3:16:35.040 Hit me up. 3:16:35.160 --> 3:16:36.800 You can send that to me at that email address 3:16:36.840 --> 3:16:39.000 and we'll try and include more of them. This week 3:16:39.120 --> 3:16:43.360 we are fundraising for Primrose and you can find her 3:16:44.320 --> 3:16:49.160 go fundme page at www dot GoFundMe dot com, slash 3:16:49.400 --> 3:16:55.560 f slash immigration hyphen lawyer hyphen for hyphen Primos at 3:16:55.600 --> 3:16:57.920 Primos Who's out of detention right now, which is great, 3:16:57.959 --> 3:16:59.600 but I know she still has a lot of significant 3:16:59.640 --> 3:17:03.240 expense is and legal expenses coming up. So if you 3:17:03.400 --> 3:17:05.200 would like to donate, if you'd like to help, this 3:17:05.360 --> 3:17:07.160 is a concrete thing you can do to help someone. 3:17:08.440 --> 3:17:12.640 We reported the news, We reported the news. 3:17:41.640 --> 3:17:44.800 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:17:44.879 --> 3:17:46.760 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:17:47.560 --> 3:17:48.119 It could happen. 3:17:48.160 --> 3:17:50.560 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 3:17:50.600 --> 3:17:54.080 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia 3:17:54.120 --> 3:17:56.880 dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:17:57.000 --> 3:18:00.560 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:18:00.600 --> 3:18:02.920 now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly 3:18:02.959 --> 3:18:05.240 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,