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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Dick.

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Speaker 4: It happened here, a podcast that played some role in

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Speaker 4: the defeats of the Republicans reposed ban on using Medicaid

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Speaker 4: to pay for trans healthcare. I am your host, Mia Wong,

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Speaker 4: and with me are three of the people who helped

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Speaker 4: make this whole thing possible. This is David Forbes, journalist

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Speaker 4: from the Ashville Blade, and Medica's News, Mattie Cassagin of

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Speaker 4: the namesake Medicast News, and Miura Laisine of Free Radical

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Speaker 4: and also Medica's News and all of you welcome to

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Speaker 4: the show. Congratulations on your defeat of the Republican part

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Speaker 4: already and helping to save trans healthcare for unbelievably large

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Speaker 4: numbers of people in this country.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a sentence that's kind

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Speaker 5: of hard to accept, and you know, in a lot

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Speaker 5: of ways, it is really what we've been trying to say.

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Speaker 5: It's been like a collective effort of everyone involved, especially

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Speaker 5: to people at the grassroots, and you know, like I

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Speaker 5: guess to give listeners a little bit of context. So

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Speaker 5: going back to May, they're in the big beautiful bill

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Speaker 5: that unfortunately did pass. Originally Republicans included a ban on

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Speaker 5: government funding for Medicaid for gender transition procedures, and originally

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Speaker 5: just from miners in the House. Then right before they

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Speaker 5: passed it through the House, they actually removed the miners claws,

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Speaker 5: so it was applying for all adults on Medicaid who

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Speaker 5: are trans At this point, everyone started kind of freaking out,

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Speaker 5: which is very reasonable because you know, there's over two

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Speaker 5: hundred thousand trans people on Medicaid depending on the numbers,

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Speaker 5: like hundred and seventy thousand depending on who you ask.

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Speaker 5: And so what we found is, you know a lot

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Speaker 5: of other sources have told us this that the bird roll,

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Speaker 5: which is basically, you know, parliamentary procedure in the Senate

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Speaker 5: that only exists in the Senate because of the filibuster

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Speaker 5: pretty much is one way that we could kill this

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Speaker 5: is what they told us back in May, and so

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Speaker 5: that's something that we reported on and tried to take

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Speaker 5: like you know, basically like a don't panic angle or

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Speaker 5: don't panic yet at least you know, like that there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of ways to fight back against this, and

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Speaker 5: we provided you know, templates for here's how you can

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Speaker 5: email your senators and this is exactly what you should

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Speaker 5: tell them.

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Speaker 6: You should call them.

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Speaker 5: You could call specific people on specific committees and tell

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Speaker 5: specific things to them. And you know, of course a

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Speaker 5: lot of other organizations and people also chipped into this,

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Speaker 5: you know, a for t PE, head of campaigns and whatnot.

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Speaker 5: But I think you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: what really pushed the needle was the people calling in

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Speaker 5: and waking Democrats up to this issue. And basically what

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Speaker 5: ended up happening is we Wove sent it. Widen basically

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Speaker 5: argued to the parliamentarium that hey, this trans Medicaid band,

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Speaker 5: it's not not a budgetary matter, it's actually a policy matter.

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Speaker 5: And the parliamentarian agreed and ruled that it was basically

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Speaker 5: a sixty vote threshold and not a fifty vote threshold.

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Speaker 5: So what that meant is that as long as all Democrats,

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Speaker 5: or at least forty Democrats forty one Democrats were closing

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Speaker 5: this measure, it was basically guaranteed to be kicked out

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Speaker 5: of the bill. And we did end up having enough

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Speaker 5: Democrats to basically ensure that that provision didn't make it

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Speaker 5: into law, even though unfortunately the bill did pass at

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Speaker 5: the end of the day.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think one thing that's notable about this, I

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Speaker 7: think one thing to emerge in our discussions, and while

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Speaker 7: she's not in the podcast, I really want to thank

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Speaker 7: Koreean Green for very invaluable policy insight into some of

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Speaker 7: this and some of the specific ways and weaknesses to

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Speaker 7: go after politicians on this. And you know, certainly we

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Speaker 7: were not alone in this. I think there were a

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Speaker 7: lot of grassroots organizations as well, and I think kind

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Speaker 7: of the approach that emerged and was successful, I think

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Speaker 7: it's kind of important how it happened, because one, it

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Speaker 7: identified a specific weakness who weren't just vaguely asking legislators

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Speaker 7: to do something about this. And two, I think it

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Speaker 7: did something which traditionally definitely democratic politicians, but even a

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Speaker 7: lot of the gay ink to use a term popular

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Speaker 7: among the law of transactivists like big lobbying groups and

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Speaker 7: establishment nonprofits been loath to do, which is it got

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Speaker 7: angry at democrats. It warned them that people were watching.

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Speaker 7: It wasn't like pretty please, you know, will you do

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Speaker 7: something to stop this? And from two decades dealing with politicians,

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Speaker 7: that's a much more effective way to approach. If you're

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Speaker 7: just going to ask nicely, they'll ignore you. They ignore

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Speaker 7: your entire demographic, if you're marginalized, if they're afraid of you. However,

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Speaker 7: if they're worried about their phone lines being shut down

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Speaker 7: with pushback, people are getting angry at them, then they

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Speaker 7: get worried and feel like they need to do something.

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Speaker 7: So I think both with our article and with some

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Speaker 7: of the other grassroots groups involved, it really kind of

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Speaker 7: put the focus back on what people can do. But

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Speaker 7: it did it by identifying weakness and then pressing really

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Speaker 7: hard on it. And I think that's kind of a

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Speaker 7: break with how some of the very unsuccessful higher level

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Speaker 7: tactics that have you know, been used or not been

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Speaker 7: used against transphobic legislation before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I think it's important to, you know,

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Speaker 4: look at the changing terrain of this all because a

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Speaker 4: lot of the sort of gig lobbying efforts were based

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Speaker 4: on conditions that don't exist anymore. And you could argue

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Speaker 4: how effective they were back in like you know, like

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Speaker 4: twenty fifteen. Yeah, right, and I still think there are

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Speaker 4: more effective things that could have been done. Then there

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Speaker 4: is no argument now like you can't just rely on

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Speaker 4: sort of like access as democratic politicians and being like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 4: wh're this org? You want this thing to happen. And

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Speaker 4: we saw this a lot, and this is something that

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Speaker 4: our policy analyst friend Karine Green, who have had in

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Speaker 4: the show before, was talking about with like with the

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Speaker 4: Biden administration was the way that all of these orgs

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Speaker 4: sort of just fell in line behind the Biden administration,

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Speaker 4: like fucking over trans people's healthcare in ways that no

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Speaker 4: one ever really talked about, and that kind of access

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Speaker 4: model got flipped, you know, whatever they were trying to

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Speaker 4: do before, and you can are you know, you can

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Speaker 4: have arguments about like what they thought they were doing.

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Speaker 4: At this point, it's just like no, like you're not

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Speaker 4: existing to like protect queer people, You're existing to protect

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Speaker 4: the Democrats from queer people. And you know, and and

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Speaker 4: and the situation we're in now is one where and

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Speaker 4: there was some very very scary reporting coming out of

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Speaker 4: the Democrats were like it wasn't clear if they were

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Speaker 4: actually going to try to whip the votes together, like

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Speaker 4: to actually vote against this stuff, and so like we're

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Speaker 4: at a point where regardless of whatever you would have

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Speaker 4: supported before, and again like I think I think they

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Speaker 4: were wrong before, but like now, no, you had this

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Speaker 4: is the only way to do this shit, Like there's

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Speaker 4: no other mechanism.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So this has been something I've especially noticed in

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Speaker 8: like recording on this because myself and Matti we both

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Speaker 8: co reported on the initial story breaking the effect that

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Speaker 8: the Medicaid ban was going in there. Mattie especially did

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Speaker 8: all the stuff at the bird role. When we initially

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Speaker 8: started working in the story, it was just a small

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Speaker 8: tip we had that there was going to be something

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Speaker 8: big coming in the next funding bill, and I can

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Speaker 8: definitely speak that at the time, Democrats, lobbyists and so forth,

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Speaker 8: they were just very like business as usual, right, they

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Speaker 8: were just even knowing that a lot of this was

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Speaker 8: kind of had the chance of emerging, and that there

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Speaker 8: was going to be a lot of bad stuff emerging,

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Speaker 8: a lot of it was still like trying to use

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Speaker 8: these whole tactics from way back when to just act

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Speaker 8: like everything is still as if it's you know, twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 8: twenty fourteen, and once everything started to unferral and dedicae

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Speaker 8: band became added in to the bill itself. Witnessing it

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Speaker 8: all from just a reporting perspective was like it felt

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Speaker 8: like watching them all go into panic mode and yet

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Speaker 8: at the same time be like trying to find ways

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Speaker 8: to kind of push us to the side.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And while I am.

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Speaker 8: Of course, like god so incredibly thankful we were able

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Speaker 8: to play any type of role and getting this done.

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Speaker 8: Like so, it's become a narrative among so many, for

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Speaker 8: lack of a better phrasing, proponents of gay ink, proponents

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Speaker 8: of the status quo, proponents of just you know, your

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Speaker 8: social democracy types, that the way forward is to be nice,

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Speaker 8: to beg and plead for our rights, so hope that

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Speaker 8: they give us it. If we ask really really nicely,

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Speaker 8: and we beg and plead and we say thank you,

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Speaker 8: and we don't be too rude or else we'll earn

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Speaker 8: it and we'll deserve whatever they give. You know, It's

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Speaker 8: like what ultimately became the final straw was like, we

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Speaker 8: sent out a push for every single just reader, follower,

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Speaker 8: every single listener podcast like everyone at home who just

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Speaker 8: spread this around, put pressure on the politicians, made it

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Speaker 8: clear this wasn't acceptable, made it clear that no, they

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Speaker 8: can't just ignore us and act like we don't exist,

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Speaker 8: and that no, they can't just wash their hands away

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Speaker 8: and pretend like this is all fine and that their

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Speaker 8: records came that no, it's this is something that matters,

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Speaker 8: This is something that has to be fought. And it

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Speaker 8: really boiled down to just the intense pressure everyone put publicly,

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Speaker 8: like yeah, and I think it is just a very

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Speaker 8: ultimate testament to how the true power in any political

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Speaker 8: system lies not with just a handful of elected NEPO

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Speaker 8: babies end up getting into office, but with the regular

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Speaker 8: people who make their voice heard, who band together and

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Speaker 8: aren't afraid to say, hey, this shit is fucked up.

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Speaker 8: We need to do something about it.

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Speaker 7: Y'all are mentioning how like, whatever debate about the gang

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Speaker 7: approach before, it's it's not just dead now it's catastrophically failed.

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Speaker 7: I honestly think that's kind of beyond debate at this point.

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Speaker 7: But one thing that I think kind of this shows

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Speaker 7: is that when you're doing with politicians, if all you

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Speaker 7: have is hey, pretty please be nice to us mater earlier,

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Speaker 7: you just can you be ignored. But like if they

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Speaker 7: go no, what else do you have then? If you

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Speaker 7: don't have some other kind of leverage. And one thing

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Speaker 7: I've seen consistently at local, state, and federal levels is

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Speaker 7: the odds are a lot better if people are.

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Speaker 9: Ancher and the politicians are afraid.

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Speaker 7: Yep, So I think, yeah, nothing, that that's the real

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Speaker 7: vantage the grassroots have. You know, stop caring about the

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Speaker 7: politicians are your friends or really care about us? Because

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Speaker 7: generally the answer is they don't. None of them are

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Speaker 7: our friends. And more focus on what can you and

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Speaker 7: your communities, your friends, the larger networks you're part of

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Speaker 7: do to make their lives miserable until the part of

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Speaker 7: the SASCO you're trying to fight becomes unsustainable for them too.

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Speaker 5: What I heard from people on the on the hill

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Speaker 5: are people close to people on the hill, is basically

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Speaker 5: that the whole bird rule maneuver for this specific provision,

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Speaker 5: there was you know, definitely whispers of it, you know,

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Speaker 5: especially among lobbyists and maybe some staffers. But until it

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Speaker 5: was being publicly advocated for this specific tool to be

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Speaker 5: used by constituents towards senators Democratic senators specifically, it wasn't

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Speaker 5: really like hugely in consideration or like that wasn't something

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Speaker 5: they were planning to do in a very strongly like

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Speaker 5: maybe it would have happened eventually, but it definitely does

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Speaker 5: seem like the constituent pressure specifically did help kind of

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Speaker 5: make Democrats realize that, hey, we're watching, you're watching you do,

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Speaker 5: like whether you're invoking these parliamentary procedures that you aren't

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Speaker 5: supposed to know about, Like you're not supposed to know

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Speaker 5: about this stuff, right, It's like it's really obscure stuff

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Speaker 5: that no one knows about except like super autistic policy ner.

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Speaker 5: It's like like me and a current probably, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: and this kind of stuff is really what turns the needles.

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Speaker 5: And like you can look at the other side too, right,

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Speaker 5: Like you know, there are extremely effective lobbies in Congress

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Speaker 5: you can look at you can look at the lobby

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Speaker 5: that literally got this provision into the bill. They sent

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Speaker 5: a letter to Speaker Johnson saying, hey, you should expand

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Speaker 5: this from miners only to adults because we think this

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Speaker 5: will actually help it survive the burg Row better. And

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Speaker 5: this was a public letter, right, And you know you

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Speaker 5: might say, oh, well that's not a big deal. Rights,

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Speaker 5: It's a letter, right, But how many gay rights organizations

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Speaker 5: released a letter to Democrats saying they should in book

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Speaker 5: the Bird Rule? Yeah, I'm not aware of any like.

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Speaker 7: I think that's the key part of this is that, yes,

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Speaker 7: eventually some of those groups did start belatedly moving against this. Yes,

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Speaker 7: eventually it's probably into a second Some politicians did, in

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Speaker 7: various ways start moving against this. But I think it's

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Speaker 7: important not to get kind of the cart before the horse.

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Speaker 7: That came after the grassroots pressure came after weeks of

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Speaker 7: people getting angry at them, blowing up their phones, very

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Speaker 7: public criticism, all the things that I think we're told

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Speaker 7: a lot of the time by liberals and Democrats were

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Speaker 7: not supposed to do. You know, be nice or you

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Speaker 7: know your concerns won't be heard. Well, it turns out

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Speaker 7: is that the Isaac Ollas is the case. And you

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Speaker 7: mentioned those conservative lobbyists, people will know, you know. I

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Speaker 7: don't think it's always a rule that the tactics or

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Speaker 7: enemy can be adopted for various reasons.

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Speaker 9: But the NRA and a.

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Speaker 7: Lot of these terrible groups don't go into Congress going hey,

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Speaker 7: please be nice to us. They go in going do this,

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Speaker 7: or we're going to make your life Hell yeah. And

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Speaker 7: if you're if this is terrain, people are going to

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Speaker 7: fight on. That's how you have to fight as far

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Speaker 7: as because that's what moves politicians at every level is

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Speaker 7: it's oh my god, I do not want this group

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Speaker 7: angry at me.

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Speaker 8: And there's one thing I want to add to is

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Speaker 8: since the bird Rolls and Folk in the Band was

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Speaker 8: taken out, there has emerged a common narrative online. It's

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Speaker 8: not really one specific person doing this, it's just kind

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Speaker 8: of something that's kind of collectively emerged in that claiming

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Speaker 8: that the credit lies with politicians, with lobbyists, with staffer,

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Speaker 8: it's with all these anonymous people behind closed doors who

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Speaker 8: are supposedly the ones that actually did the work, and

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Speaker 8: no one else matters. I want to strongly emphasize that

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Speaker 8: that is not only not true, but dangerous rhetoric.

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Speaker 9: It's propaganda.

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Speaker 8: Yes, it's an attempt to reinforce the role that the

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Speaker 8: state has in subjugating everyone, to reinforce the fact that oh, no,

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Speaker 8: the way things are is perfect. You can trust all

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Speaker 8: these leaders to protect you when you can't. They are

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Speaker 8: the reason we got in this mess. The Gayank tactics

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Speaker 8: are the things that have failed and led to this

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Speaker 8: in the first place. Liberals had plenty of opportunities prevents

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Speaker 8: this and they didn't. And ultimately, the reason that this

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Speaker 8: narrative spreads is because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 8: gay Yank has called that for a reason because well, yes,

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Speaker 8: their interests happen to align on the realm of queer

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Speaker 8: rights because they themselves are queer. At the end of

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Speaker 8: the day, they are still representing the upper class, and

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Speaker 8: their primary interests are still going to be with protecting

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Speaker 8: the upper class and protecting the role they have in

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Speaker 8: subjugating the lower class and subjugating marginalized people who are

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Speaker 8: not in their economic class.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which is most trans people, like almost all of us.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, this is like.

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Speaker 7: Really important because I don't think the intersections of queerness

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Speaker 7: and definitely not transist in class get talked.

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Speaker 9: About nearly enough.

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Speaker 7: Which is is that queer in transy or overwhelmingly working

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Speaker 7: class demographics. Yep, like the legislators you know, like Sara McBride,

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Speaker 7: but also like the people running gag coorganizations are not

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Speaker 7: just like not generally representative of our wider communities in.

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Speaker 9: A lot of ways.

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Speaker 7: They also just have had incredibly different lives almost always,

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Speaker 7: with some exceptions, they've been part of the gentry their

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Speaker 7: entire lives, and most queer and trades people, especially trans people,

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Speaker 7: are as far from the gentry as you get. So

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Speaker 7: that does create like this massive gulf, but also I

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Speaker 7: think it's one reason these groups are so out of touch.

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Speaker 7: But also I think it does, you know, if we

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Speaker 7: put the power back on ourselves, if we realize that

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Speaker 7: this kind of grasstreots Anger is much more representative of

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Speaker 7: where queer and trans people are, If this willingness to

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Speaker 7: fight directly in whatever tactics people choose is much more

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Speaker 7: like in keeping with like queer culture and tradition and history,

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Speaker 7: then I think there's a lot of power there. And

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Speaker 7: I think this is an example of successfully wielding that.

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Speaker 7: I think Mirror was correct about this propaganda that's kind

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Speaker 7: of been spreading in the wake, and it was particularly

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Speaker 7: I think egregious because it specifically like tried to credit

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Speaker 7: Sara McBride, who had just come off a really obnoxious

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Speaker 7: interview with The New York Times where she was literally

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Speaker 7: against all.

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Speaker 9: The aggressive trans rights and then after the band.

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Speaker 7: Finally got killed, this you know, various sources, and honestly,

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Speaker 7: I don't know anyone hearing this stuff in whatever capacities is

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Speaker 7: a journalist act was whatever. I think it's just professionally

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Speaker 7: good to be more skeptical when these kind of convenient

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Speaker 7: narratives emerge. But kind of embers, Oh, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 7: she'd been doing so much. Yeah, sure, in public she'd

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Speaker 7: been you know, very either low key or refusing defend

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Speaker 7: trains rights at all, even justifying some of the narratives

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Speaker 7: of our enemies. But sure she was doing all this

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Speaker 7: behind the scenes.

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Speaker 4: She refused to fucking do anything when they ban trans

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Speaker 4: people from fucking up bathrooms in DC.

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Speaker 3: Yes, like in Capitol Town.

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Speaker 8: You wouldn't even defend her own staffers.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 7: So, like it's worth being skeptical of the claim that, oh,

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Speaker 7: she was doing so much behind the scenes. However, you know,

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Speaker 7: if she was prompted in the last week of a

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Speaker 7: multi week effort to suddenly start taking some action based

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Speaker 7: on anger, great. Part of the point these strategies is

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Speaker 7: to prompt people who don't want to act into feeling

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Speaker 7: like they're forced to act. But I think in twenty

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Speaker 7: years of covering politics at various levels, if politicians don't

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Speaker 7: like something, you will know. If they support something, you

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Speaker 7: will know they will be very loud and very public,

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Speaker 7: because the public platform is one of the biggest powers

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Speaker 7: they have, as well as doing whatever behind the scenes

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Speaker 7: if they're quiet about something or even seem opposite to it,

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Speaker 7: especially if it involves a group on the front.

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Speaker 9: Lines like trans communities.

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Speaker 7: And then later on they try to kind of take

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Speaker 7: back credit of saying, oh, look, you know, we were

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Speaker 7: doing so much behind the scenes that is pretty universally

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Speaker 7: attacked to commit to demobilized people.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I want to note that the point of

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Speaker 5: us saying this is not to say that you know,

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Speaker 5: Sarah McBride or you know Saffher's or these other people

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Speaker 5: didn't do anything, like, of course, they did stuff right like,

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Speaker 5: they voted, they were voting. Note, they probably made some

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Speaker 5: phone calls and stuff, right, But what we're saying is like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: they basically did the bare minimum of what they're supposed

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Speaker 5: to do right like, and that was only after a

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Speaker 5: huge pressure campaign from the grassroots and from people who

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Speaker 5: they would literally not be even in office without. Like

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Speaker 5: I did the math in an article way back in

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Speaker 5: that last November, and there's like exit polls showing that

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Speaker 5: like eighty six percent of LGBTQ people voted for Democrats

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Speaker 5: last year. That's like a crazy margin. That's like it's

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Speaker 5: up there with you know, black voters and LGBTQ people

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Speaker 5: are like the biggest bass of the Democratic Party, right,

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Speaker 5: Like they would have lost three or four more Senate

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Speaker 5: seats they would it would have been like a fifty

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Speaker 5: six fifty seven seat chamber if it were not for

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Speaker 5: literally the people that are advocating for this healthcare. And

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Speaker 5: it's so absurd that, like Sarah McBride, what she did was,

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Speaker 5: if we assume everything that's been said is true about

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Speaker 5: this is what she's done is basically she got Democrats

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Speaker 5: to not vote to take away the healthcare of two

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Speaker 5: hundred thousand trans people, which is like, why was that

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Speaker 5: even a question like this? This is the actual story

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Speaker 5: that came out of this. In my opinion, that was

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Speaker 5: bigger is that this was ever in question that there

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Speaker 5: might be like seven or eight Democrats who would vote

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Speaker 5: to ban medicate from two D three hundred thousand trans

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Speaker 5: people like and the fact that we're supposed to, like

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Speaker 5: give them a huge applause for not doing that is

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Speaker 5: kind of obscene to me.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the readiness to thank politicians kind of

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Speaker 7: cuts against the grassroots anger and organizing that works so

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Speaker 7: well here because you don't want them. And actually I

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Speaker 7: think it's certainly a good rule not to thank politicians

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Speaker 7: because what you want constantly keep them in, if that's

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Speaker 7: the terrain you're going to fight on, is they need

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Speaker 7: to feel like they're on thin ice. They need to worry,

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Speaker 7: their staff needs to worry about Okay, we got to

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Speaker 7: keep this out of the bill, because holy hell, you

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Speaker 7: do not want those queers mad at you. That's where

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Speaker 7: you want to get closer to if putting pressure on

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Speaker 7: politicians is what needs to happen, and so buying these narratives,

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Speaker 7: thanking them that takes the pressure off. Don't ever do that,

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Speaker 7: you know, yes, And so I think it's it's kind

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Speaker 7: of important, and you know, to quote the Internet masterpiece

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Speaker 7: of old drill tweet like you do underneath circumstances, have

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Speaker 7: to hand it to them. At best, they acted late

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Speaker 7: grudgingly after they faced a ton of anger that resulted

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Speaker 7: and was helped amplified by a ton of work from

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Speaker 7: bluntly like working.

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Speaker 9: Class trans people and working class queer people.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I would argue that what Representative McBride did specifically,

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Speaker 5: even assuming that it like help us in the short

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Speaker 5: term with this bill, the way that she's been kind

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Speaker 5: of talking about this internally and in the New York

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Speaker 5: Times interview is actually extremely dangerous for trans people because

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Speaker 5: I believe it or not, they're not going to stop

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Speaker 5: with this this bill. They're going to do it again.

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Speaker 5: They're going to do it again, probably in budget bills

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Speaker 5: or another reconciliation bill. And at some point it's going

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Speaker 5: to come down to the wire where Democrats will have

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Speaker 5: to publicly defend the right of trans people to have

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Speaker 5: healthcare and to be alive and to exist. That that's

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Speaker 5: going to happen at some point. And what McBride has

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Speaker 5: been telling everyone, what she's been telling as her client

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Speaker 5: on New York Times, what she was telling Democrats behind

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Speaker 5: the scenes, according to the notice article, is that you

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Speaker 5: can't talk about these issues. You have to be really quiet.

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Speaker 5: You just have to do it behind the scenes. Because

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Speaker 5: it's too hot topic of an issue. You know, you

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Speaker 5: don't want to accidentally, like I don't know, show the

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Speaker 5: world that trans people might actually deserve to exist. It

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Speaker 5: doesn't It doesn't even make sense.

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Speaker 9: I think they just doesn't.

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Speaker 5: They just like feel gross arguing it, like personally like

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Speaker 5: they don't there's no political like, there's no like good

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Speaker 5: political calcitalusts. They just feel gross talking about trans people.

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Speaker 5: Is my opinion that this is why they don't want

437
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 5: to do it. It's like it's bad for them politically.

438
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 5: They will lose votes, they will lose political power. They

439
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 5: just like hate us. Basically, I don't know, we.

440
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 8: Should never be nice or kind or thank politicians, like

441
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 8: both Maddie and David had said they are not our friends.

442
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 8: Like there is a popular approach that I think a

443
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 8: lot of people end up having towards these kind of

444
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 8: quote unquote leaders that they are somehow these mythical saviors

445
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 8: of everyone, that they're all leading these nonprofits, they're leading,

446
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 8: these companies, these governments save us. They are not our friends.

447
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 8: They do not give a shit about us. You would

448
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 8: be surprised to things I've heard behind closed doors that

449
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 8: they have said they are not your friends. They hate

450
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 8: every single fucking poor person. They will never say that vocally,

451
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 8: but they hate us.

452
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 9: Especially the transplants.

453
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, oh, and it's like us to be subservient

454
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 8: to them until the day we fucking die, because it's

455
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 8: all about consolidating their own power. And the kind of

456
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 8: core of what I'm getting at here is kill the

457
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 8: idol in your head. You should never have an idle like.

458
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 8: There is no person worth idolizing, not only not gay,

459
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 8: and not even only not anyone in this call, this

460
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 8: podcast now, no one at all should be idolized, because

461
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 8: doing that is placing all the power in the hands

462
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 8: of people you don't know, in the hands of people

463
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 8: who are just as human as anyone else. And even

464
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 8: if they're very good, people who do good things are

465
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 8: fundamentally capable of fucking up and doing bad. And if

466
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 8: you idolize someone, you end up condoning everything they do,

467
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 8: whether you even say it or otherwise. It comes with

468
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 8: the territory. Fundamentally, you should not rely on other people

469
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 8: to save you. You should rely on you and your community.

470
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 8: You need to fucking work with your community to bring

471
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 8: about the outcomes you want. And I mean you the

472
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 8: listener like you specifically, Yes, you need to work with

473
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 8: your community to bring about what you need.

474
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 7: I think that's that's kind of the message that should

475
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 7: emerge from this is no one in Washington organization and

476
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 7: politician are the ones of the power here.

477
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 9: You are.

478
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 7: You and your friends are you and your community are

479
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 7: And I know we've said that a little bit before,

480
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 7: but it's worth re emphasizing how much people can do

481
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 7: when they get together and decide to do something about

482
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 7: these issues.

483
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that's a really good note to

484
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 4: end on. However, come up before we do that very

485
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 4: exciting news, do you all want to introduce introduce the

486
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 4: new news network.

487
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, we have a huge news to announce that's

488
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 5: related to the news website that we used to write

489
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 5: this article about. The bird Roll, formerly known as Maddicast

490
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 5: News will now be known as trans News Network, and

491
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 5: we're basically relaunching completely. We're switching up our business model

492
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 5: from technically was a for profit before, but now it's

493
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 5: going to be part of fiscally sponsored nonprofit of community partners.

494
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 5: And we're also moving off subset to behive and so,

495
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 5: you know, as Mira and David were saying, earlier, like

496
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 5: we don't want you to rely on us to save you,

497
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 5: Like it's kind of like a team effort, right, Like

498
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 5: we do have a part to play. We'll help will

499
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 5: help you give you information, but we also could use

500
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 5: help from you. We could use help from the listener,

501
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 5: especially people who do have you know, some people have

502
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 5: more time, some people have more resources or money. And

503
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 5: one thing that we are looking to do with our

504
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 5: relaunch is to fundraise so we can basically, you know,

505
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 5: ensure that basically our journalists like you know, Mirra and

506
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 5: David have the financial stability they need to continue making

507
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 5: journalism like this. And so we're launching with a fundraiser

508
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: and we're gonna we'll have a link I guess with

509
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 5: the podcast description and there will be like you know,

510
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 5: you can get a free gift if you donate a

511
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 5: certain amount. That's a huge way to help. But as well,

512
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 5: you know, you also need to actually listen to the

513
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 5: things that people in your community say, like what are

514
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 5: the things people in your community are saying that can help?

515
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 5: What are other ways that you can contribute back to

516
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 5: save yourselves basically because put all in this together, and yeah.

517
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 7: I think also one of the reasons I'm really excited

518
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 7: about the Trans News Network and the transition as it were,

519
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 7: to the Trans is that I think our collective experiences

520
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 7: and our experience with this fight as well, have shown

521
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 7: that there is a real need for hard hitting, powerful,

522
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 7: unrepentantly radical and trans journalism, trans journalism that actually gets

523
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 7: trans communities and proceeds kind of to take the fight

524
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 7: from there. And so that's that is badly needed. And

525
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 7: I think we are, from our own experiences and from

526
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 7: kind of what we've all built working together like able

527
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 7: to be part of that.

528
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, and just to have one thing because I know

529
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 8: how many trans people artistic and need to hear this

530
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 8: spout out. I'm one of them. This is explicitly a

531
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 8: worker's co op. We are doing this radical from the

532
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 8: ground up. Everyone gets eqal say this is a community thing.

533
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 8: This is not some like, oh, you know, we're doing this,

534
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 8: but then there's a nice CEO who makes five hundred k. Now,

535
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 8: this is the money is going to the journalists who

536
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 8: need it. This is a group of us basically deciding, hey,

537
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 8: we need to fucking keep doing this work. We want to,

538
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 8: we need to support, we need help. Yeah, and we're

539
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 8: joining the bandwagon of all these news outlets doing workers

540
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 8: co ops because that's the only way you can fucking

541
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 8: make money in this industry nowadays.

542
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 9: It's also the fairest and best way to do it.

543
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 11: Yep.

544
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: It is it.

545
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 8: It's objectively the best and most ethical way to do

546
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 8: this under the healthscape of capitalism, yep.

547
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: And Antimyra's point, and I'm gonna we went on this

548
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 5: podcast earlier this year to talk about trans journalism, and

549
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 5: you might want to listen to that as well if

550
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 5: you're curious on like just the struggles that a lot

551
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 5: of us have dealt with, and number one is, you know,

552
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 5: the material need for money basically. And I'm going to

553
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 5: say what I said in that episode again, which is

554
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 5: that one hundred dollars for some people, like you know,

555
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 5: let's say working class transferson is very different compared to

556
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 5: one hundred dollars for people in other social classes. You know,

557
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 5: maybe someone working in tech or something like, maybe you'll

558
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 5: get a dinner at the one hundred dollars and it's

559
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 5: not a big deal to you, right, it could be

560
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: life changing for someone else who's literally like spending their

561
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 5: life creating news to help trans people like you know this,

562
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 5: this article that we wrote, it wasn't a huge amount

563
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 5: of money that that took to create that. But at

564
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 5: the same time, we don't have a lot of money

565
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 5: to go around like it's it's being basically a small

566
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 5: number of people. We have a we have a good

567
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 5: number of like paid subscribers to but really in order

568
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 5: to keep expanding the way we want to, we really

569
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 5: need more money and it's going to be so huge

570
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 5: to trans people everywhere.

571
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 7: So yeah, So if someone has money and it's interested

572
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 7: in support trans journalism, that is all the things we've

573
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 7: just talked about and I think makes a real difference. Yeah,

574
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 7: please sign episode Haide subscriber donate to the fundraiser. Every

575
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 7: single dollar of that we will put to use.

576
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 8: Yep.

577
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 5: Our first goal is basically to hire one of our

578
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 5: journalists as a part time W two employee, which should

579
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 5: be literally life changing.

580
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, And when we said this in the

581
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: last episode, and we're going to say it again, working

582
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 4: class trans journalism can exist if you support it, And

583
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: every single dollar that you sent to a working class

584
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 4: trans journalist is going one hundred times further that it's

585
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 4: going for any other thing you can do to like

586
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 4: like it's going so much further that it is giving

587
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 4: it to like fucking the Human Rights Committee or whatever

588
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: the fuck, Like, wait, is what's actually with it? Organization?

589
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: Human Rights Campaign?

590
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 11: Yeah?

591
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, here was that one?

592
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 11: Yeah yeah yeah.

593
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 5: Well, by the way, did I mention it's tax seductible, So.

594
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 9: Got to throw that in there.

595
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 5: If you itemiz your deductions, if you give like one

596
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 5: hundred dollars to us, then you get to pay like

597
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 5: you know whatever, like thirty dollars less goes to the

598
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 5: federal government, which means slightly less money for ice in Israel.

599
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: That's how I see it anyway.

600
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 8: Okay, your God, I'm tired of living off my measly savings,

601
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 8: dear God.

602
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 5: Please, yeah, you can tell her really trying to sell

603
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 5: this well.

604
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 7: And also I think, like you know, Mirror and myself

605
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 7: both do other trans journalism work. I'm part of the

606
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 7: editor at The Ashville Blade, which is a local trans

607
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 7: journalist co op, and you know, we've seen how far

608
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 7: that goes. So so yeah, like the more support for

609
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 7: trans journalism period, TRANSUS Network, the Free Radical Asheville Blade,

610
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 7: some of the other projects out there, the better.

611
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: Yep, this has been Nick.

612
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 4: It happen here, Support, support trans journalism, and go keep

613
00:31:51,520 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: fighting the good fight.

614
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 12: Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happened here. We

615
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 12: are joined once again by Gillian Brockel, who is once

616
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 12: again going to talk to us about the terrible actually

617
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 12: world of deportation flights, how we can track them, what

618
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 12: we can learn from following them, and what it tells

619
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 12: us about the US's massive deportation regime. Welcome back, Thanks

620
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 12: for joining.

621
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 13: Us, Thank you for having me, James, I appreciate it.

622
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 12: You're welcome. All right, let's get going here this We've

623
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 12: got a lot to go whether there's been a lot

624
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 12: of planes deporting.

625
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 13: People, deporting and removing, so we've really stopped saying deporting

626
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 13: because we don't know who hasn't gotten due process and

627
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 13: who does and does not actually belong to the country

628
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 13: they're being sent to.

629
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, in many cases, it's more like what we saw

630
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 12: in the extraordinary, very much so kind of war on Terry.

631
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 12: I think it was pretty a better way to describe it. See,

632
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 12: let's start out. I suppose it was Jibouti.

633
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 13: Yeah, so the eight men that were sent to Djibouti,

634
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 13: that's the flight I first tracked on May twentieth. They

635
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 13: were taken on a Gulf Stream five operated by Journey

636
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 13: Aviation from Harling in Texas to Shannon Airport in Ireland,

637
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 13: and I you know, called the cops in Ireland to

638
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 13: try and stop. It didn't work, and then they went

639
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 13: to a US military base in Djibouti, where Judge had

640
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 13: ordered them to remain while he considered their case. So

641
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 13: those men are now in South Sudan where Trump wanted

642
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 13: to send them. They were held in Jibouti for six weeks.

643
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 13: We know from court filings that they were held inside

644
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 13: a shipping container in a far corner of the base

645
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 13: near a burn pit where the trash for the base

646
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 13: was burned, and that smoke from this pit was getting

647
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 13: into the shipping container through the events and causing the

648
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 13: men and the ICE guards to cough and feel ill.

649
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 13: There was also an independent journalist named Alex Planck who

650
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 13: got a photo from a source on the base showing

651
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 13: one of the detainees shackled at the ankles and being

652
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 13: escorted by an ICE guard to the restroom because the

653
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 13: shipping container did not have its own restroom. And he

654
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 13: said that most of the members of the military at

655
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 13: the base didn't even know that they were there. And

656
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 13: you know, this base is generally considered like one of

657
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 13: the worst assignments to get when you're in the military.

658
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 13: Plank said he talked to a defense contractor who said

659
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 13: that they stopped sending their employees to that base because

660
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 13: it was just too terrible. So during the six week period,

661
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 13: I and other flight trackers we tracked five trips by

662
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 13: round trip trips by Journey Aviation jets to and from

663
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 13: their base in Miami and Djibouti, all traveling through Shannon.

664
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 13: Presumably these were flights that were swapping out ICE guards,

665
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 13: but we really don't know because ICE does not provide

666
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 13: any information about its air operations. Everything we know is

667
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 13: through court filings and through open source intelligence like the

668
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 13: ADSB Exchange. Then on July third, the Supreme Court cleared

669
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 13: the way for these third country removals, and this one

670
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 13: specifically to South Sudan. All of US flight trekers were

671
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 13: watching the airspace really closely, and we knew that one

672
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 13: of Journey's jets was already there on the ground in Jibouti,

673
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 13: so that's what we were looking for. But then on

674
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 13: the evening of July fifth, about two days later, DHS

675
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 13: announced that it was done. They had removed the detainees

676
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 13: to Saua, Sudan via a military flight earlier that day.

677
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 13: And I have gone over the air track data for

678
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 13: that region six times on ADSB exchange, and I haven't

679
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 13: been able to spot this military flight. And granted, Djibouti

680
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 13: is a real ADSB dead zone, but Juba isn't. Juba

681
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 13: actually has quite good coverage, and you know, Addis Ababa

682
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 13: also has very good coverage which they would have had

683
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 13: to fly over. So it's clear to me that this

684
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 13: military flight, if it happened as DHS claims, probably flew

685
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 13: the entire trip with its transponder turned off, which is

686
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 13: something that the military can do, but it's not standard.

687
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 13: I think people would be surprised how rare actually it

688
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 13: is for military flights to do that, unless they're going

689
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 13: on a combat or a spy mission. Most military aircraft

690
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 13: fly with their transponders on. So if you think about

691
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 13: the Iran air strikes a couple of weeks ago, the

692
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 13: week before the air strikes, there were thirty two Globe

693
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 13: Masters and Strata tankers that flew from the US to

694
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 13: bases in Europe, in a single night that like every

695
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 13: av geek was like, whoa, you know, and we knew

696
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 13: that that happened because they flew with their transponders on,

697
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 13: even though it made it really obvious that some kind

698
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 13: of military operation was probably imminent. And then even during

699
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 13: the air strikes, these aircraft would take off from Europe

700
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 13: with their transponders on, turn them off over the Mediterranean

701
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 13: when they were heading east, do whatever they were doing,

702
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 13: and then turn them back on when they were headed

703
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 13: back toward Europe. So even part of the combat mission,

704
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 13: they still have their transponders on. So the fact that

705
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 13: the flight to Sasudan, which was not a combat or

706
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 13: a spy mission, appears to have flown the entire trip

707
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 13: with its transponder off is quite notable to me. And

708
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 13: you know, I see it as an extension of ISIS

709
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 13: tactics on the ground where they are covering their faces

710
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 13: and refusing to identify themselves. But I'm, you know, kind

711
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 13: of surprised that they got the military to go along

712
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 13: with that.

713
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, if it was really a military flight relic, it

714
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 12: could be something kind of military adjacent like some DHS

715
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 12: or other government aircraft, right.

716
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: I mean We don't know.

717
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 13: Yeah, they said it happened via military flight on this date,

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 13: but we don't know.

719
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 12: Yeah.

720
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 13: So on July eighth, the spokesperson for the South Sudanese

721
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 13: government told the AP that the men were there and

722
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 13: that they were quote under the care of the relevant

723
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 13: authorities who are screening them and ensuring their safety and

724
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 13: well being. We have no idea what that means. Does

725
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 13: that mean they're in prison there? Does that mean that

726
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 13: they are going to be sent to their countries of

727
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 13: origin as they claimed at one point? We have no idea. Yeah,

728
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 13: And then just a few minutes ago, we're recording this.

729
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 13: On Besiel Day, July fourteenth, the same plane that first

730
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 13: took these men to Djibouti scheduled to take off from

731
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 13: El Paso for Shannon Airport in Ireland. Once again, where

732
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 13: it goes after that, Well, you might know by the

733
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 13: time you hear this, but right now it's anyone's guess.

734
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's baffling, like some of this stuff, like the

735
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 12: deportations to or no deportations, like rendition to South Sudan.

736
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 12: Right like even Homan, who's the Trump's quote unquote borders

737
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 12: are or immigrations are seems to be asserting that he

738
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 12: has no idea what happened to them once they've landed there,

739
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 12: Like right, at one point they suggested that they didn't

740
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 12: think they would be detained, but like did they just

741
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 12: let them out into the street in I mean, when

742
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 12: people are released from custody in the United States, that's

743
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 12: exactly what they do, right, they let them out into

744
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 12: the street. Like, Yeah, a lot of volunteers here in

745
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 12: San Diego have spent a lot of time, you know,

746
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 12: because often people are released without Sometimes they're released without

747
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 12: religious garments, which are very important to them. Often they're

748
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 12: released without any sort of orientation as like where are

749
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 12: they how they get where they're going? Can they afford

750
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 12: a flight? You know, how do they book a flight?

751
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 12: Do they have the relevant documents to book a flight?

752
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 12: Like it's a complete clusterfuck. And that's it in the US.

753
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 13: Right, And I mean think about it. If you're like

754
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 13: Laosian or Vietnamese man in your fifties or sixties, which

755
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 13: a lot of these men are older gentlemen, and you're

756
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 13: what just like led out into the streets of Juba,

757
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 13: which is, you know, a big city, but there's a

758
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 13: lot of instability in this country, Like what are you

759
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 13: going to do it a spig dinker? Like what you know?

760
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 12: Yeah, you're very vulnerable, very vulnerable, and you probably don't

761
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 12: have any material resources. It's not that you can get

762
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 12: your credit card and take out much of money and

763
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 12: fly somewhere else. Nor do these people really have in

764
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 12: many cases anywhere to go, right, Like the reason that

765
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 12: they're being taken to third countries is generally that they

766
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 12: have withholding of removal or Convention against torture claims that

767
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 12: they can't be removed to their home countries. Since we

768
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 12: recorded this, we have found out that people in South

769
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 12: Sudan are being detained. According to a like called The

770
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 12: Daily with your South Studentees Outlet, those people are incarcerated

771
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 12: in South Suda.

772
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 13: Like the man for me and Mar. You know, they're

773
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 13: arguing that, you know, I suppose, oh, we can't send

774
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 13: him to me and Mar, But if you're going to

775
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 13: send him to another place where he's likely to be tortured,

776
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 13: is really any different? And also they are sending people

777
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 13: to me and Mar. They have departed people to me

778
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 13: and Marr in the last few months, as you James

779
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 13: have reported.

780
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's right, they've sent more than a dozen people

781
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 12: to MEMMR and seem to be continuing at least they

782
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 12: have not said they will stop. And most of those

783
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 12: people were directly detained by military intelligence and MEMMA when

784
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 12: they landed, so that those people will have been tortured.

785
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 12: And yeah, this this other person who had withholding it

786
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 12: for removal, doesn't mean that he will not be tortured.

787
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 12: I mean, if we look at like migrants making the

788
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 12: journey to the United States are routinely kidnapped, tortured, ransom killed,

789
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 12: sexually assaulted. I've heard of all of these first hand.

790
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 12: I don't suspect it will be any different. You know,

791
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 12: once they're outside the US again, they're extremely vulnerable. And

792
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 12: we saw this a lot in Chitl forty two, when

793
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 12: the Trump administration and the Bid administration would just boot

794
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 12: people back over the border. Often they would do lateral transfers,

795
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 12: so you enter in the San Diego sector, they drop

796
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 12: you in the Laredo sector or somewhere further east, and

797
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 12: those people then have zero network right and often don't

798
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 12: speak Spanish and are extremely vulnerable. It's pretty much the

799
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 12: worst case outcome here.

800
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 13: Well, unfortunately, in the next part I'm about to tell

801
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 13: you about how all of that is about to increase exponentially.

802
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, talking of things that are increasing, they're not actually increasing.

803
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 12: We sort of have to do to advertisements every show

804
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 12: that will get to be one of them. Now, all right,

805
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 12: we are back. I have you enjoyed those adverts here?

806
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 12: We had some new ones for like a religiously sanctient gold,

807
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 12: which I'm very exciting about. This is one thing Jesus

808
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 12: loved it. Money changes a lot of stuff in the

809
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 12: Bible about that.

810
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 13: I think silver especially right.

811
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think big precious metals. Guy, love to see

812
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 12: currency speculation. Okay, let's talk about Djibouty, place where the

813
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 12: United States has a big base that it is using

814
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 12: for housing people that is renditioning to other countries.

815
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

816
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 13: So when we first recorded this, we were just doing

817
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 13: a Djibouti update about the men who were renditioned to

818
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 13: South Sudan, and we knew at the time that there

819
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 13: was another Journey Aviation jet about to take off. And

820
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 13: now we know what happened with that flight. It landed

821
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 13: again in Djibouti and two days later DHS announced that

822
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 13: it had renditioned five more people to the country. Of Swatini,

823
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 13: which I've been to. I reported there in twenty eleven.

824
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 13: I spoke to you teachers who were starving because they

825
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 13: hadn't been paid for eight months by the king, who

826
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 13: you know is the last absolute monarch in Africa. And

827
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 13: you know, the teachers that I spoke to were terrified

828
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 13: to disappear into the prisons that these five men have

829
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 13: now been renditioned to. I worked with another independent journalist

830
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 13: named Alex Plank, and we published a story using OSIN

831
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 13: to prove that that journey flight to Djibouti was carrying

832
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 13: the five men and from there they were transported by

833
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 13: a C seventeen US military you know, huge aircraft that

834
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 13: flew with its transponders off from Djibouti to Swatini to

835
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 13: deliver these men.

836
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 12: Seems like that is the emerging standard for these military

837
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 12: deportation flights, right at least for the final leg.

838
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, so the last week has been pretty crazy.

839
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 12: Yeah.

840
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 13: An Omni seven sixties did a removal flight to a

841
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 13: couple places in Africa, and at least two and perhaps

842
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 13: three large military jets also did removal flights from the

843
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 13: United States, landing in Gemo just for fun and landing

844
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 13: in different countries in Africa. Now, the interesting thing about

845
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 13: that and about Journey is that until this past week,

846
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 13: Africa and Central Asia have really been the purview of

847
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 13: this other ice air operator that's really gone under the radar.

848
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 13: But I think it's possible might be doing some things

849
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 13: that are even more sinister than your usual ice air flights.

850
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 13: So this company is called Aircraft Transport Service. They are

851
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 13: Florida base, but they are now all of their aircraft

852
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 13: are based in Mesa, Arizona, which is an ICE hub,

853
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 13: and they're at the end of their five year contract

854
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 13: doing these special high risk removals to dangerous areas or

855
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 13: with you know, allegedly dangerous migrant passengers. Their flights really

856
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 13: began to spike in mid February up until July fourth.

857
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 13: They have five private jets that they lease from their

858
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 13: owners to operate these flights. And I've looked at all

859
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 13: of their flights and it's not clear if they are

860
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 13: doing any flights that aren't ICE, but certainly at least

861
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 13: most of their business is ICE. And so I've tracked

862
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 13: nineteen different trips, different ice removal trips that they've done

863
00:46:54,320 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 13: since February eighteenth, and most of these have gone to

864
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 13: countries in Africa, and that really began to surge around

865
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 13: April twenty ninth. And what I've noticed is that on

866
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 13: June twenty six, New York Times published a story about,

867
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 13: you know, the Trump administration is pressuring all of these

868
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 13: countries to accept more of these third country removals, and

869
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 13: there's a lot of overlap between that list of countries

870
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 13: and the countries that ATS has been landing in for

871
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 13: the last four months. There is a pair of flights

872
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 13: in particular that I find pretty alarming. They went out

873
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 13: within thirty minutes of each other on May twentieth, which

874
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 13: was the same day that the flight to Djibouti, when

875
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 13: the flight that was supposed to go to Sasudan and

876
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 13: these flights, so these flights started doing their usual ice

877
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 13: removal route, which is, you know, MESA, maybe we stop

878
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 13: in Fort Worth to pick up more migrants, then you

879
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 13: do a fuel stop in San Juan, you do another

880
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 13: fuel stop in Senegal, and then you go wherever you're

881
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 13: going to go in West Africa. These flights, thirty minutes

882
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 13: apart from each other, flew directly from San Juan to

883
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 13: Mauritanium and we're on the ground for thirty minutes, and

884
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 13: then from their flew to Senegal. You know, I can't

885
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 13: prove anything because ICE does not communicate about its air

886
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 13: operations at all, you know, unless they feel like it

887
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 13: because they want to brag about it, or because you know,

888
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 13: they're ordered to bite courts. These flights to me seem

889
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 13: particularly alarming as possible flights where there could have been

890
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 13: third country removals that we don't even know about. And

891
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 13: Marissa Cavas, she's an independent reporter who has a site

892
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 13: called The Handbasket. At the end of April, she reported

893
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 13: that there was a third country removal that hasn't gotten

894
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 13: a lot of attention and I don't know why, because

895
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 13: it's really messed up. A third country removal of an

896
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 13: Iraqi man to Rwanda, which happened on April fourth, after

897
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 13: he legally migrated to the US. He was accused of

898
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 13: murder in Iraq. There's incontroversial evidence proving that he did

899
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 13: not commit this crime. He wasn't even in Iraq when

900
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 13: it happened, but the Biden administration continued with his removal,

901
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 13: and because he couldn't go back to Iraq because he

902
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 13: would have been executed. They had been looking for a

903
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 13: safe third country for him. They did not finish that

904
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 13: when they handed the keys over to the Trump administration.

905
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 13: So on April fourth, he was removed to Rwanda. And

906
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 13: he has a lot of media contacts, and no one

907
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 13: has heard from him. I have not seen a report

908
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 13: about him, you know. I tried to contact his family,

909
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 13: was unsuccessful. I contacted his attorney and didn't hear back.

910
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 13: So ATS operated a flight. It began at about eleven

911
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 13: thirty on April second to this Fort Worth airport that's

912
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 13: right next to an iced attention center San Juan, Senegal,

913
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 13: and then landed in Nairobi. Now Nairobi is not Kigali

914
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 13: in Rwanda, but they're only about an hour apart. And

915
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 13: if you look at the flight data, the aircraft at

916
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 13: that point had been operating for about twenty three hours straight,

917
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 13: which is stretching the boundaries of legality, even if you

918
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 13: have two crews. So there's a lot of reasons why

919
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 13: ICE might have taken him to Nairobi and then done

920
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 13: something else for the last leg I think the most

921
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 13: likely the explanation is that the crew had to rest

922
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 13: and I decided that they didn't want to wait, so

923
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 13: they may have chartered a local puddle jumper to take them,

924
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 13: you know, over the lake to Quida.

925
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 12: It's pretty common, I think too, when I've flew into Kikali,

926
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 12: I think I've stopped in Kinshasa and Nairobi. I don't

927
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 12: know if it's a big planes can't land there. It's

928
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 12: just the kind of the way it works. Fewer people

929
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 12: are flying to Kigali directly from the USO Europe than

930
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 12: are going to places like King Shasta, Nairobi, so it

931
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 12: might just be that they don't do direct flights. But yeah,

932
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 12: I don't think I've ever done a direct like big

933
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 12: plane flight, right.

934
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 13: It seems that the only aircraft going in and out

935
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 13: of there are going to Nairobi and Kampala, and from

936
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 13: there you connect somewhere else.

937
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 12: It's a pretty small airport.

938
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 13: So so yeah, that's ATS. They've kind of flown under

939
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 13: the radar because global x is doing so much more

940
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 13: in terms of numbers. But I think it's quite possible

941
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 13: that ATS's mission for the past few months has been

942
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 13: to sort of pilot program small amounts of third country

943
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 13: removals to these different countries, just like omar Amin because

944
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 13: after Omaramin was sent to Rwanda. The State Department sent

945
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 13: a cable that Mrsakabas obtains saying, oh man, it totally worked.

946
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 13: This is great. Let's send ten more people.

947
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 12: At a cost to one hundred thousand head right, right again,

948
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 12: maybe suggesting cars rationally, one hundred grand is going to

949
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 12: cover more than your paperwork, you.

950
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 13: Know, right, And just to be clear about you know,

951
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 13: the cost all of these military flights that have been

952
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 13: flying around Africa now doing isis dirty work. Those cost

953
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 13: about twenty eight five hundred dollars an hour to operate,

954
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 13: and of course cost is the least important thing here.

955
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 13: But my god, you know, for an administration that claims

956
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 13: to care about government waste.

957
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is ridiculous. We don't know how much they're

958
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 12: paying people in South Sudana, the monarchy of Aswardini. We

959
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 12: don't know what they're sort of bribing these people to accept.

960
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 12: I just checked with Mauritania. It's currently a level three

961
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 12: State Department travel warning telling people to reconsider travel due

962
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 12: to terrorism and crime. That's why we're sending people. I

963
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 12: have explained the many and varied human rights abuses that

964
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 12: have happened in Mauritania on the show before, so you

965
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 12: can go back and listen to other episodes. Do you

966
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 12: want to want to hear about those hundreds of Mauritanians,

967
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 12: if not thousands, entered the United States in the tail

968
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 12: end of the Biden administration. I'm thinking like it was

969
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 12: late summer of twenty twenty three when I recall seeing

970
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 12: many of them. Just in my workdown at the border.

971
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 12: We often get very hot, like September's Octobers in southern California,

972
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 12: and a few times have come across Mauritanian people who

973
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 12: are in really bad just during those sort of hot months,

974
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 12: and it's always stuck with me that, like some of

975
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 12: the stories they had were horrific treat and I'm sure

976
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 12: that it's some of those people who are now being

977
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 12: sent back and just the fact that they tried to

978
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 12: leave will have made things even worse for them.

979
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 13: So yeah, I mean these flights going to Mauritania, which

980
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 13: includes one of the military flights last week, you know,

981
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 13: slavery still exists in Mauritania. There's a minimum of ninety

982
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 13: thousand people there who are still enslaved. That's the low

983
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 13: end of the estimates. And you know, it's been illegal

984
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 13: since nineteen eighty one, but the practice is really protected

985
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 13: by a culture of secrecy, not just among Mauritanian elites,

986
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 13: but the multinational corporations who are embedded there and will

987
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 13: just kind of look the other way while they're you know,

988
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 13: extract natural resources with people in the minds that like,

989
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 13: they're not really a check if they're enslaved or not. So,

990
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,959
Speaker 13: you know, maybe we're doing third country deportations and removals there.

991
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 13: Maybe we're just sending Mauritanians back to a really horrible place.

992
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, and it doesn't hugely matter, right, We're sending people

993
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 12: back to a place where they are very likely to

994
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 12: be tortured, to be as you say, like faust un

995
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 12: free labor, to be incarcerated without having committed a crime.

996
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 12: Doesn't really matter whether's people are wont it's fucked. The

997
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 12: embassy doesn't let us people drive around Mauritania at night,

998
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 12: have to be in the capitol. They can only walk

999
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 12: in certain places. Give an idea of like how this

1000
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 12: double standard is applied talking of multinational corporations, I would

1001
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 12: love to hear from. So let's do that now, all right,

1002
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 12: we are back and we were talking about the safety

1003
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 12: of private jets. Some of these flights have some pretty

1004
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 12: horrific safety practices, right, and this, like, when you mentioned this,

1005
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 12: it instantly reminded me of a thing that I have

1006
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 12: had no luck trying to sell stories on for four years.

1007
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 12: It is standard practice for ICE and TVP to transport children,

1008
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 12: children in their custody without proper child seats or other restraints, right,

1009
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 12: which is you know, to my knowledge, you can get

1010
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 12: a ticket for that in some states. Right, Like if

1011
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 12: you're driving a child, like you put a little two

1012
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 12: year old in the seat without a like a child

1013
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 12: seat that they have to have, Like, rightfully, you're endangering

1014
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 12: that person's life. But apparently our government's doing it every day.

1015
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean the law doesn't apply to the upholders

1016
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 13: of the law.

1017
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 12: Right right, Yeah, many such cases.

1018
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 13: Many such cases which I'm about to explain more.

1019
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, let's learn some more.

1020
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 13: So these ice flights, you know, most of these are

1021
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 13: happening on larger jets A three twenties owing seven thirty

1022
00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 13: sevens inside the cabin. REPUBLICA has done some really good

1023
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 13: reporting on this from April. There's another outlet called Capitol

1024
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 13: and Maine that also did a terrific story in twenty

1025
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 13: twenty one, and the University of Washington also has a

1026
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 13: lot of research and information on what it's like inside

1027
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 13: the cabin of these planes. And you know, as a

1028
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 13: former flight attendant, I find it fucking disgusting and really unsafe.

1029
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 13: Flight attendants on these flights are not allowed to look

1030
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 13: at or speak to migrant passengers. They aren't allowed to

1031
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 13: serve them food or water. All of the migrants on

1032
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 13: these flights are shackled wrist to ankles, and some of them,

1033
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 13: if they're allowed or distressed or just annoying, the ice

1034
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 13: guarts are wrapped in restraint blankets and harnesses and have

1035
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 13: hoods put over their faces. Just this morning, JJ and DC,

1036
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 13: one of the ice air trackers on Blue Sky, posted

1037
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 13: a video of a migrant passenger in a hood being

1038
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 13: loaded onto a Vello jet in Seattle and he's being

1039
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 13: pushed by three ice guards and falls to the ground

1040
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 13: face first and then they just sort of man handle

1041
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 13: him back up the stairs.

1042
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1043
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 13: So, you know, as a former flight attendant, I just

1044
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 13: want to say, in the event of an emergency, how

1045
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 13: the fuck is a flight attendant supposed to evacuate the

1046
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 13: passengers in ninety seconds when their seat belts are getting

1047
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 13: tangled in their handcuffs and all they can do is

1048
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 13: shuffle down the aisle when they can't see because they

1049
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 13: have a hood over their head. If the cabin loses pressure,

1050
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 13: how can they reach up for their oxygen masks when

1051
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 13: their handcuffs are attached by a chain to their leg irons.

1052
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 13: How are they going to get the mask on themselves

1053
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 13: if they're wearing a hood? How are they going to

1054
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 13: get their life fests on when they can't reach back

1055
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 13: to wrap the strap around their waists? And these emergencies

1056
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 13: are not theoretical. We know from court filings that between

1057
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 13: twenty fourteen and twenty twenty one there were six emergency

1058
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 13: evacuations of ice air flights. Of those incidents, the evacuation

1059
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 13: times of only two are known, and they took two

1060
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 13: and a half minutes and seven minutes. And to be clear,

1061
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 13: we only know about those evacuations because of lawsuits. So

1062
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 13: there may very well have been more evacuations since twenty

1063
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 13: twenty one and we just don't know about it.

1064
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean it's likely right, like the Biden administration

1065
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 12: did it, especially when they were deporting Haitian people like

1066
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 12: huge numbers of flights.

1067
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 13: Right until May and June September twenty one, when Biden

1068
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 13: did the Haitian mass deportation. That was the highest amount

1069
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 13: of deportations that witness at the border has recorded.

1070
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 12: Yeah. That was also the last time I was able

1071
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,919
Speaker 12: to write about Biden's administration policy nbc BA. I think

1072
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 12: I crossed the line saying something mean about Uncle Joe.

1073
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1074
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, but we should be very clip. This has been

1075
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 12: a bipartisan thing.

1076
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 13: Oh yes, oh yes. So on each of these flights

1077
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 13: there is generally one or two ICE officials and at

1078
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 13: least fifteen ICE contracted guards. Migrant passengers have reported being verbally,

1079
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 13: physically and sexually abused by these guards, and flight attendants

1080
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 13: on board have no power to stop them. In twenty seventeen,

1081
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 13: ninety two migrant passengers traveling from the US to Ethiopia

1082
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 13: were left shackled on a plane in the car Senegal

1083
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 13: for twenty three hours because the crew timed out. They

1084
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 13: were kicked, dragged, tied up, threatened by ICE guards, and

1085
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 13: when the labs filled up, they soiled themselves. Flight attendants

1086
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 13: report that the guards on these flights regularly ignore their

1087
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 13: safety commands. And will even you know, try and nark

1088
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 13: on them. They'll complain to the flight attendant's supervisors at

1089
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 13: their airline when they're asking people to follow federal aviation

1090
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 13: regulations just like everyone else in America has to do.

1091
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 13: But when flight attendants have complained to the FAA about this,

1092
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 13: the FAA defers to ice. You know, this is not

1093
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 13: just a matter of like, it's disrespectful, two dangerous flight attendants.

1094
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 13: You know, this is extremely dangerous. And one of the

1095
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 13: most important parts of aviation safety is something called crew

1096
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 13: resource management or CRM. This is something that all pilots

1097
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 13: and flight attendants are trained in every year and have

1098
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 13: to retrain every year, and basically CRM boils down to

1099
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 13: pilots need to listen to the flight attendants about safety,

1100
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 13: and flight attendants are trained to be assertive with the

1101
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 13: pilots about safety. This was developed after a notorious incident

1102
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 13: in the nineteen seventies where a plane was on the ground,

1103
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 13: it was filling up with smoke, and the pilot ignored

1104
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 13: flight attendants please to evacuate, you know, just for some

1105
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 13: like garden variety sexism probably, and everyone on board died

1106
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 13: of smoke inhalations. Two hundred and eighty people. So after that,

1107
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 13: crews are trained every year to really flatten the hierarchies.

1108
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 13: You know, I think people think like, oh, the captain

1109
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 13: has four epaulets and the first officer has three, and

1110
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 13: you know, oh hierarchy.

1111
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 3: No.

1112
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 13: Air crews are actually very like the hierarchies are flattened

1113
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 13: intentionally on purpose. They train to flatten it across job titles,

1114
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 13: across gender education, racial cultural divides, because it is safer

1115
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 13: to fly that way. When everyone feels that, you know,

1116
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 13: they have a stake in safety and they'll be heard

1117
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 13: if they say something about safety, everyone else is safer.

1118
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 13: So if you've got these ice guards stepping into the

1119
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 13: middle of that, throwing their weight around, overruling flight attendants

1120
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 13: and pilots, and the FAA isn't backing them up, you

1121
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 13: have confusion about who's in power on board, you have

1122
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 13: a total breakdown of CRM and so beyond just like

1123
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 13: people physically being able to get off of the planes,

1124
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 13: this is so unsafe to have this kind of environment

1125
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 13: with these guards. So the last incident I want to

1126
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 13: talk about was in June seventeen. To me, this is

1127
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 13: the scariest one of all of the safety incidents. There

1128
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 13: was an Ice Air emergency. This flight landed, it was

1129
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 13: filling up with smoke. This is almost just like the

1130
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 13: plane in the seventies. The flight attendants told the pilots

1131
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 13: to evacuate, and the pilots ignored them. A bunch of

1132
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 13: people on board were hospitalized. We don't know how many

1133
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 13: or who, but frankly, everyone on board could have died

1134
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 13: from smoke inhalation very easily. And I really think you

1135
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 13: can point to the presence of the ICE guards here

1136
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 13: as a big factor in the failure to evacuate. That

1137
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 13: is not how pilots are trained.

1138
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 8: Jeez.

1139
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 13: So again, Yeah, if you're a flight attendant or a

1140
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 13: pilot and you do not want your airline to contract

1141
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 13: with Ice, now is the time to tell them. Tell

1142
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 13: your union help flight attendants for Global X and a

1143
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 13: Vello get jobs somewhere else. Ye, you know, do whatever

1144
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 13: you can to slow this down, because it is all

1145
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 13: about to increase if they get their way.

1146
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, jeez, that is fucking bleak.

1147
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1148
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, you said it's going to get bigger. Like, let's

1149
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 12: talk about that, Like, can you kind of zoom out

1150
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 12: and explain Ice Air to us, and like We've talked

1151
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 12: about these small flights a lot, but like that's not

1152
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 12: the bulk of the flights that they do right.

1153
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 13: Right, So ice Air right now has twelve large jets,

1154
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 13: you know, a three twenty seven thirty sevens chartered from

1155
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 13: different airlines that they're using for their deportations, and then

1156
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 13: these private jets are you know, used less for these

1157
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 13: smaller high risk deportations. They're running like thirty thirty five

1158
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,479
Speaker 13: flights a day at this point. So May twentieth turned

1159
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 13: out to be like kind of a big day for

1160
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 13: I Air because that was the Djibouti flight. That was

1161
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 13: when ats started using the Tyson call sign. It's also

1162
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 13: the day that the larger operation really just searched in activity.

1163
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,479
Speaker 13: And you know, the other flight trackers tell me that

1164
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 13: ice Air used to take weekends and holidays off and

1165
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 13: they don't do that anymore. They were deporting people on

1166
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 13: juneteenth and July fourth. In May, ice operated a record

1167
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 13: number of flights, which was at least one thousand and

1168
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 13: eighty three flights that flight trackers recorded, one hundred and

1169
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 13: ninety of which were removal flights. And then the rest

1170
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 13: are like these internal shuffle flights between different ICE attention

1171
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 13: centers and return trips, and then in June they set

1172
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 13: a record again with one one hundred and eighty seven flights,

1173
01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 13: of which two hundred and nine were removal flights. All

1174
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 13: of this data is a witness at the border dot

1175
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 13: org and it's kept by Tom Cartwright, who is a

1176
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 13: real hero. He has been tracking flights basically by himself

1177
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 13: for five and a half years, and he publishes very

1178
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 13: detailed monthly reports. And yeah, as you said earlier, you

1179
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 13: know he's been tracking this through the Biden administration too,

1180
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 13: which is how we know that, you know, the Trump

1181
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 13: deportation machine from the first term, you know, Biden didn't

1182
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 13: really slow it down that much, and now Trump is

1183
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 13: picking up the reins again and surging it again. So

1184
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 13: the airlines right now that are flying these larger removal

1185
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 13: flights are global X also called Global Crossing Airlines, a

1186
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 13: Velo Airlines, Eastern Air and on the international and except

1187
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 13: for ATS, who you know I talked about earlier, has

1188
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 13: their own contract. All of these carriers who fly for

1189
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 13: ICE are subcontracted through a flight broker called CSI Aviation.

1190
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 13: CSI Aviation signed a five year contract with the Biden

1191
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 13: administration last year that has been paused because of a

1192
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 13: lawsuit from a rival flight broker that wanted that contract.

1193
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 13: So since late February, CSI has been brokering these flights

1194
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 13: on a six month no bid contract that started at

1195
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 13: one hundred and twenty eight million dollars and was quickly

1196
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 13: doubled and then went up to two hundred and seventy

1197
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 13: four million, and then just a couple of days ago,

1198
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 13: I don't think anyone else has reported this, it was

1199
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 13: raised again to three hundred and thirty nine million dollars.

1200
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 13: So they've got about sixty million dollars left on this

1201
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 13: contract for the next six weeks, and that's before the

1202
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 13: huge windfall and funding that ICE just got from Trump's

1203
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 13: big beautiful bill. The administration has said it once to

1204
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 13: triple deportations, and right now they just don't have the

1205
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 13: airct that and DHS. On Twitter and Instagram a couple

1206
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 13: of days ago, they posted this really ghoulish meme that

1207
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 13: said fire up the deportation planes, and there was like

1208
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 13: a skeleton lifting weights with a caption that said my

1209
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 13: body is a machine that turns ICE funding into mass deportations.

1210
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: So that's gross.

1211
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, that was really weird. They've been doing a lot

1212
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 12: of this like post stuff right.

1213
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 13: Like I said, they only have twelve jets right now,

1214
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 13: and they're flying those capacities, so they can't triple deportations

1215
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 13: unless they start bringing in more airlines. So the other

1216
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 13: day I posted a call to action to flight attendants

1217
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 13: and to flight attendant unions saying, you know, if you

1218
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 13: don't want your airline to do these flights, now is

1219
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 13: the time to tell them.

1220
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1221
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 13: CSI Aviation is run by a man named Alan Way

1222
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 13: and his daughter, Deborah Mastis. Alan Way is the former

1223
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 13: chair of the New Mexico Republican Party. He's hosted a

1224
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 13: bunch of Trump rallies over the years. He ran unsuccessfully

1225
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 13: for Senate and governor of New Mexico in the past

1226
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 13: on an anti immigrant platform, which local media at the

1227
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 13: time pointed out, you know, well, you're mostly doing deportation flights,

1228
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 13: so that would really be enriching yourself. His daughter, Deborah Masis,

1229
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 13: was one of the fake electors in New Mexico during

1230
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 13: the twenty twenty election.

1231
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 3: Wow Yeah.

1232
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 13: She was subpoenaed by the House committee investigating the January

1233
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 13: sixth insurrection and the New Mexico State Attorney General's office

1234
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 13: investigated her. Eventually, they're not press charges because she and

1235
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 13: the other fake electors claimed they didn't know they're fake

1236
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 13: certifications were going to be used for anything illegal. And

1237
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,839
Speaker 13: the Project on Government Oversight has some pretty good reporting

1238
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 13: on CSI aviation. If you want to see.

1239
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:02,440
Speaker 12: That, yeah, it will put it in this show notes like, yeah, insane,

1240
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,719
Speaker 12: Like this whole thing is just like complete. I would

1241
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 12: watch or look at some of the footage from inside

1242
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 12: deportation flights because it is inhumane.

1243
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 13: It's yeah. I mean, I hope that any flight attendants

1244
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 13: who are forced to work these flights can find a

1245
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 13: way to quit. But if they can't quit for financial reasons,

1246
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 13: because all of these people are you know, very underpaid,

1247
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 13: you know, I hope that they can provide us with

1248
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 13: more information about what is going on inside these flights.

1249
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, definitely, that will be at least give people a

1250
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 12: chance to see what their tax dollars are being spent on.

1251
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1252
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,440
Speaker 13: I mean one of the things that I've been thinking about,

1253
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 13: you know, terrorism is like a really loaded word that

1254
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 13: gets misused a lot against black and brown people, But

1255
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 13: I think that's the right word for all of these removals.

1256
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 13: Because they're random, they're violent, they're getting civilians for political purpose,

1257
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:09,600
Speaker 13: and they're designed to frighten the larger population potential victims.

1258
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 13: Right the Trump administration is trying to scare all undocumented

1259
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 13: immigrants and anyone adjacent to them, since you know, a

1260
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 13: lot of citizens are being arrested too.

1261
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 12: Yeah, or green cardholders, people with buckets of documents are

1262
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,799
Speaker 12: being deported a rendition right.

1263
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 13: Now, and they're saying, you know, they're trying to make

1264
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 13: them so scared that if they don't self deport they

1265
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 13: could end up in South Sudan, they could end up

1266
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:40,440
Speaker 13: in Mauritania. You know, that's what this policy is designed

1267
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 13: to do, is to terrorize the people of this country.

1268
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:45,080
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1269
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 12: Absolutely, it's pretty bleak. We have an encrypted email address,

1270
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:54,839
Speaker 12: so if you are I guess a deportation flight attendant

1271
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 12: and you would like to talk to someone, I can

1272
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 12: pasidoron to give you in two or you might have

1273
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 12: you any crypted email address and you can plug it

1274
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 12: if you do.

1275
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, you can definitely leak to me on signal.

1276
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 12: Okay, yeah, nice. We have cool zone tips at ProtonMail

1277
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 12: dot com or cool Zone tips at proton dot me.

1278
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 12: I believe they both work. It's only encrypted if the

1279
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 12: address that it's sent from is also encrypted. So in

1280
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 12: this instance you would need a proton mail or you

1281
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 12: can cook up your own encryption. Yeah, that would be

1282
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 12: the way to get in touch if you want to

1283
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 12: get in touch. This this just fucking sucks, like and

1284
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 12: there's going to be so much more of it in

1285
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 12: the next couple of years with this budget, Like this

1286
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 12: is going to become well it already isn't everyday thing.

1287
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 12: This is going to become even more common.

1288
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 8: I know.

1289
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 12: They're also like they're doing some weird shuffle to avoid

1290
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 12: sanctions with Venezuelan Airlines.

1291
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 13: Right, yeah, they fly I believe it is, to Honduras,

1292
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 13: and then Venezuela flies their own plane to Honduras to

1293
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:56,760
Speaker 13: pick them up.

1294
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 12: Right yeah cool, I'm sure to sup. I have a

1295
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 12: great time. Want to get back to Venezuela. And in

1296
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 12: Venezuela's also offering humanitarian flights for a citizens who are

1297
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 12: stuck in Mexico right now, So like, if people want

1298
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 12: to do something about this, what can they do?

1299
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 13: The first thing you can do is boycott Avello Airlines.

1300
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 13: They are commercial airlines, so don't fly with them. You

1301
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 13: can write to the airlines you use regularly right now

1302
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 13: and tell them that if they are considering contracting with

1303
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 13: ICE not to that you will boycott them too. You

1304
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 13: can complain to the FAA about the safety issues on

1305
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 13: these flights. I doubt that they'll do anything, but I

1306
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 13: think there's value in saying something anyway. If you have

1307
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 13: contacts in aviation or in any of the countries that

1308
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 13: these people are being sent to, and you find something out,

1309
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 13: you can leak to me on signal. And if you

1310
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 13: work in aviation, tell your airline and your union right

1311
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 13: now that you are not going to operate these flights.

1312
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,440
Speaker 13: And if you want to get started tracking flights yourself,

1313
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,839
Speaker 13: we need a lot of help, especially in the overnight hours.

1314
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 13: A good first step is to go to Globe dot

1315
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 13: adsb exchange dot com and in the general search window

1316
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 13: type Tyson.

1317
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 12: You've been doing really, really great reporting on this, and

1318
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 12: I'm sure people want to continue to follow it. It

1319
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 12: is a shame that other outlets are not running it.

1320
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 13: But God bless them.

1321
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 12: Yeah, just try.

1322
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 13: Out there if you want to know what James is

1323
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 13: talking about. There's a brief explanation at the end of

1324
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 13: one of my stories that I've written recently at hard

1325
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 13: g History dot ghost dot io. I have a couple

1326
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 13: stories there about the recent flights to Africa, and you

1327
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 13: can read the bottom and you'll find out what James

1328
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 13: is talking about.

1329
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's a little teaser for you, right, go get

1330
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 12: the t Yeah, Okay, thank you for joining us. I'm

1331
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,479
Speaker 12: sure we'll hear from you again soon.

1332
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 13: Thank you, James.

1333
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 4: It it could happen here, the podcast about I don't know

1334
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,720
Speaker 4: how am I supposed to do the pivot from like.

1335
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 12: It the Stephen King novel, which could at any point

1336
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 12: happen in a place where you are.

1337
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 4: I was trying to get to the podcast coming to

1338
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 4: you not quite live from a place where a bunch

1339
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 4: of just masked guys are driving people off the street.

1340
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 3: But that works too, Stephen.

1341
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 4: King, good pivot. Haven't done that one yet. I'm your host,

1342
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 4: Miya Wong. With me is James Stout, and we're also

1343
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 4: joined by the wonderful freelance journalists melbuer At a fucking Christ.

1344
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 3: Holy shit.

1345
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that happened simultaneously as I inhaled and like

1346
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 4: apparently a piece of popcor were and just like fucking

1347
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 4: rail gunned into the back of my throat.

1348
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 3: Relief for this.

1349
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 6: All professionals here.

1350
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 3: This is going great. Is journalist John Pactor carpentual. Good lord,

1351
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 3: I'm so.

1352
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 4: Good at my job. So what we're gonna be talking

1353
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 4: about is the continued resistance to ice and ice actions

1354
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 4: in LA and in sort of broader parts of California

1355
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 4: as stuff has shifted and intensified. So both of you two,

1356
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:35,799
Speaker 4: welcome to the show.

1357
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 6: Glad to be here, Happy to be here.

1358
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 4: So I think the place I want to start is,

1359
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 4: could you give people just kind of a brief reminder

1360
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 4: of what happened during that sort of big flare up

1361
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 4: several weeks ago of protests and ice actions in LA.

1362
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 3: I can probably speak a little bit more to that.

1363
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 10: So as part of the federal immigration raids that Donald

1364
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 10: from promise, Los Angeles was one of the first targets

1365
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 10: of pretty large scale and pretty frankly random immigration raids.

1366
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 10: So it started in early June where you started to

1367
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 10: see you know, massed agents without oftentimes badges or names

1368
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 10: on their badges or sometimes even serial numbers. First they

1369
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 10: started in home depots areas like that, just sort of

1370
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 10: running around parking lots, tackling people and throwing them into

1371
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 10: buses pretty understandably, Los Angelinos started to protest, and they

1372
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 10: started to protest pretty hard, and that happened for a

1373
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 10: few weeks. Eventually the Marines in the National Guard were

1374
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 10: both deployed to federal buildings more large scale protests, and

1375
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 10: that sort of brings us to the last few weeks,

1376
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 10: which I think mel can probably speak to.

1377
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, so, you know, the National Guard and the Marines

1378
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:03,879
Speaker 14: were deployed like mid right, and we kind of saw

1379
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,839
Speaker 14: a little bit of petering out of like the mass

1380
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 14: protests that we saw at the beginning of June. But

1381
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 14: still there were a number of organizations and groups that

1382
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,759
Speaker 14: were trying to keep tabs on the sort of roving

1383
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 14: patrols that were happening in Los Angeles throughout the month

1384
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:26,719
Speaker 14: of June and early July. So these groups were taking

1385
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 14: in tips and trying to maintain a sort of map

1386
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 14: of rapid response locations to the ice detainments, kidnappings, suspension

1387
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 14: of constitutional rights, if you will. And so what we

1388
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 14: saw was, you know, a good number of weeks of

1389
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 14: social media sort of proliferating these posts about where ice

1390
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 14: patrols had gone. And because the you know, and this

1391
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 14: is something that organizations have spoken to in the last

1392
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 14: couple of weeks. But because they're pounder, surveillance, as you

1393
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 14: could say, by these organizations was pretty successful. The sort

1394
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 14: of ice patrols began to not happen throughout the later

1395
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 14: half of the day.

1396
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 6: They would happen early in the morning.

1397
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 14: They would you know, hit a location, grab as many

1398
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 14: people as possible, pull them.

1399
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 6: Into the van, and take them away.

1400
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 14: And they had gotten it down to something like less

1401
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 14: than ten minutes that they were on scene, and it

1402
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 14: made it a little bit difficult for folks to be

1403
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 14: able to respond forcefully to those events. And they kept

1404
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:36,799
Speaker 14: it to parking lots, car washes, you know, businesses, random

1405
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 14: street vendors, places that they could enter quickly and leave quickly.

1406
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 14: We saw in the middle of June and the later

1407
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 14: half of the month that if they were trying to

1408
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 14: execute warrens, for example, in a neighborhood, they would be

1409
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 14: blocked in almost immediately by neighbors. So you can see

1410
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 14: that there was a pretty consistent response by Angelino's across

1411
01:19:58,280 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 14: the board as.

1412
01:19:59,240 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 6: Much as they could.

1413
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 14: And while this was happening, there was also a pretty

1414
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 14: dedicated group of individuals who were spending a lot of

1415
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 14: time outside the Mentro Detention Center downtown in downtown LA,

1416
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 14: which is where many of these vans were going in

1417
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 14: and out of before they were taking detainees elsewhere. Yeah,

1418
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 14: so you know, across the board, what we've seen is

1419
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 14: quite a bit of organizing. Much of this organizing is

1420
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 14: decades in the making, especially in Los Angeles, but also

1421
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 14: in places like Ventura County and a little bit up

1422
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 14: north where you see the same kind of work that's

1423
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 14: being done. In the later half of the month, early July,

1424
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:42,240
Speaker 14: I should say, we began to see some pretty intense

1425
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 14: movements by Border Patrol, most notably in MacArthur Park on

1426
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:54,719
Speaker 14: July eighth, I believe, and in the cama Rio Oxynard area,

1427
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 14: which is right on the border of Venture County and

1428
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 14: other county name escapes me at to cannabis farms that

1429
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 14: next week, and.

1430
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 6: Those were large scale operations.

1431
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 14: A lot of militarized Border Patrol National Guard I believe

1432
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 14: helped with both of those operations as well, and also

1433
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 14: saw some pretty intense community response to those.

1434
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 12: So, Sean, you mentioned you wanted to talk a little

1435
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 12: more about the organizing right the way people that are

1436
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 12: organized to try and kind of resist this, or at

1437
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 12: least like do what they could.

1438
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 10: One of the things that I think is interesting, this

1439
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 10: isn't unique to Los Angeles. We're seeing groups organize what

1440
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 10: I've been hearing called megri patrols here in Los Angeles.

1441
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 10: There's also pretty heavy touch of this from San Diego.

1442
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 10: One of the things that I thought was really really

1443
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 10: interesting was in Los Angeles has been preparing for a

1444
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 10: moment like this since the late sixties. Frankly, you know,

1445
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 10: you have groups that have a pretty solid through line

1446
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 10: since the mid sixties at the dawn of the Chicano movement,

1447
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 10: and these are groups that already have experience with large

1448
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 10: scale attainments. Not throughout the city like we were seeing

1449
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 10: the last few weeks, but there's this really impressive level

1450
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 10: of organization. Where I saw a detainment in Boyle Heights

1451
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 10: of a gentleman who was accused of.

1452
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 3: Getting a police officer.

1453
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 10: Within I think three minutes of them arriving, not only

1454
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 10: was there one or two people, but there was like

1455
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 10: fifteen people already onseen Boyle Heights is pretty singular in

1456
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 10: its preparation. However, it was not uncommon. I mean in

1457
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:40,799
Speaker 10: MacArthur Park. There was a detainment of a few people

1458
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 10: who were walking down the street. I was maybe eight

1459
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 10: minutes away when I heard about the raid. There was

1460
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 10: already like ten people there, including a college professor, including

1461
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 10: members of Union del Barrow and Attendance Union. I have

1462
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 10: a bit of a theory that I don't know if

1463
01:22:56,080 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 10: Los Angeles was chosen because they wanted to prove a point.

1464
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 10: And there is a part of me that wonders seeing

1465
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 10: how quickly people are responding to these raids. There's a

1466
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 10: part of me that wonders at that point was even made.

1467
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 12: I think the government's actions can be understood in like

1468
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:16,559
Speaker 12: owning the libs and like if your Facebook uncle got

1469
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 12: to make government policy, it wouldn't look that different from this.

1470
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,680
Speaker 12: So I think that was certainly like the point early on,

1471
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 12: and they'd have detained a lot of people in LA Like,

1472
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 12: but yeah, they're organizing. You have very entrenched work in

1473
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 12: class communities, even going back way before the sixties, right,

1474
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 12: like if we look at the zoot suit, right, if

1475
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 12: we look at the Brassero program and the attempts to

1476
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 12: expel people after that, Like if we look at United

1477
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 12: farm Workers, like across LA County, we have a long

1478
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 12: history of organizing, so like it's a hard target for

1479
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:46,599
Speaker 12: them for sure.

1480
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 4: And I think it's really interesting listening to YouTube talk

1481
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 4: about this matches a lot of what I was hearing

1482
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 4: about the way that it all kind of decentralized in

1483
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,040
Speaker 4: between sort of May and June. And the thing that

1484
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,640
Speaker 4: reminds me of really interestingly is what was happening to

1485
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 4: sort of other protest movements but reversed. You know, if

1486
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 4: you look at like the Pala Side encampments right where

1487
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 4: it's okay, you put a bunch of people in one

1488
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 4: spot and then they all get crushed because the police

1489
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 4: can bring overwhelming numbers. And it feels like the raid

1490
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:17,879
Speaker 4: response has almost been the reverse of that, where ices

1491
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 4: had to adopt, at least in that period, had to

1492
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 4: adopt the sort of hyper bolbile in and out like

1493
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 4: rapid strike kind of thing, like because they were suddenly

1494
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 4: faced with a scenario where like if they tried to

1495
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 4: like stay in mass in an area, it went really

1496
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 4: badly for them. And that's absolutely fascinating to me.

1497
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 10: One of the things that I think is interesting is

1498
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 10: the first few days you saw a pretty heavy amount

1499
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 10: of raids sort of in the Central Courridor near downtown

1500
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 10: or you know, near East Hollywood, things like that, and

1501
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 10: those were extremely heavily protested. You know, there was a

1502
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 10: protest sort of the first day of when the raids

1503
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 10: really really started in the garment districts or in the

1504
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 10: fashion district excuse me. Within minutes there was like seventy

1505
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 10: five people there and you know, they were shouting. You know,

1506
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 10: they were there before all of the vehicles for federal

1507
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 10: agents were actually there. That's the one where you know,

1508
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 10: you saw quite a bit of Union folks who arrive

1509
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 10: extremely quickly, you know. And one of the other things

1510
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 10: that I think is really interesting about this organizing is

1511
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 10: you're also seeing regular people who I don't know if

1512
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 10: they normally would organize something where they're sort of facing

1513
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,679
Speaker 10: off with federal agents.

1514
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 3: You're starting to see.

1515
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 10: Them mobilized in a way that I don't know if

1516
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 10: you would normally see them. You know, one of the

1517
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 10: ladies that I spoke to as part of the rapid

1518
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 10: Response sort of network is a teacher. And I talked

1519
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 10: to her and I was like, hey, like, why do

1520
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 10: you do this? And she told me She's like, look

1521
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 10: like I teach in a heavily immigrant community. My job

1522
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:58,719
Speaker 10: is to take care of these kids, and unfortunately now

1523
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 10: part of that is driving around the neighborhood and looking

1524
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 10: for white vans filled with people wearing masks.

1525
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 4: That's both incredibly moving and beautiful and also one of

1526
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 4: the most hideous things I've ever heard in my entire life.

1527
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 12: There were quite a few teachers at the SEIU rally

1528
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 12: which was on the ninth of June, which was with

1529
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 12: David Wuerta, the president of the SCIU, was detained, I guess,

1530
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 12: allegedly for obstructing federal agents are correctly.

1531
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1532
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,879
Speaker 12: I met a lot of people who were older who

1533
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:36,200
Speaker 12: I think were like soidedly liberal in their politics, but

1534
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 12: not particularly radical, And it was a really interesting combination

1535
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 12: of these older people who were outraged and somewhat inexperienced

1536
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 12: in street politics and younger people who were outraged and

1537
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,639
Speaker 12: somewhat inexperienced in street politics. Like it wasn't the same

1538
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,519
Speaker 12: crowd that you see the people who I'd seen in

1539
01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:58,720
Speaker 12: twenty twenty when I covered stuff in La. Haven't really

1540
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 12: covered much of the Palestine stuff in LA, but a

1541
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 12: lot of the people who I interviewed in June were

1542
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 12: citizen children of non citizen parents, and like they felt

1543
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 12: like an obligation on behalf of their community and their

1544
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,599
Speaker 12: family to show up, And like it was really moving

1545
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 12: to see people who were clearly very afraid by the

1546
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 12: third night of like unhinged state violence. Right, Like Sean

1547
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 12: was there too about the amount of like les lethal's

1548
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 12: that were just being discharged by the third night, Like

1549
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 12: the protest was split up, and so was the policing.

1550
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 12: Like there wasn't really ever a point where all the

1551
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 12: protesters were able to get together because the police had

1552
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 12: so many roads bucked off and like you were just

1553
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 12: turned down the street and they'd be firing Leslie thought

1554
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 12: you'd turned down the street and there's tear gas. You

1555
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 12: turned down the street and there's pepper balls like all

1556
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 12: over downtown LA. And these people were very afraid, but

1557
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 12: they still kept coming out, And that was quite like

1558
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 12: inspiring to me.

1559
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean, I think that's the situation that

1560
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 4: we're in right where you know, the sort of the

1561
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 4: fear and the horror has to is being forced to

1562
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 4: give way to action because the only alternative to that

1563
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 4: is just watching them take your family and take your

1564
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 4: neighbors and taking the people you love. The Carabell until

1565
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 4: one day they take you and it doesn't have to

1566
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 4: get to there.

1567
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 12: Maybe you know what else is going to take you,

1568
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 12: God specifically take money from your wallet. It's these incredible

1569
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 12: products and services which we're lucky enough to be able

1570
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 12: to share with our listeners.

1571
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:27,759
Speaker 3: We are back.

1572
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 4: I notably did not want to do an actual pivot there,

1573
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 4: but we're back.

1574
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 10: I think, you know, speaking on sort of the climate

1575
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 10: of Los Angeles and at the same time this sort

1576
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 10: of insistent joy that Los Angeles has. There's a very

1577
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,759
Speaker 10: famous song most of your listeners may have heard it, Lachona,

1578
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,680
Speaker 10: which is basically just a song about a woman who

1579
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 10: won't listen to her husband and gets drunk, and you

1580
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:59,599
Speaker 10: see it at every single protest in Los Angeles involving

1581
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 10: immigrant rites. And one of the interesting things about it

1582
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 10: is multiple times at the protests, I would see this

1583
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 10: beginning of dancing to La Chona, and then multiple times

1584
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 10: it would be broken up. I think this was the

1585
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,879
Speaker 10: thirteenth mid June. And eventually it got to a point

1586
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 10: where I remember saying, you know, these protesters seem to

1587
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 10: really want to listen to this song, and I have

1588
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 10: a feeling it's going to end up being played in

1589
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 10: a weird spot. What ended up happening is by the

1590
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 10: end of it, I saw a bunch of people with

1591
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 10: like these gnarly bruises all over their body, you know,

1592
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 10: welts from less Lethal's fire, in the middle of the street,

1593
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 10: dancing to La Chona. They finally got their chance, and

1594
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 10: you know, it's whenever the Dodgers win. This speaks to

1595
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 10: sort of the specific culture of Los Angeles. I have

1596
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,880
Speaker 10: seen more fires and people dancing around them to that

1597
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 10: song than any other song, including protests, so throughout the

1598
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 10: last five years.

1599
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:04,599
Speaker 3: But there's also you know.

1600
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 10: I live in Boyle Heights and one of the really

1601
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 10: interesting and kind of horrific things is I had sort

1602
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 10: of been cued up and trained to listen for the

1603
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,560
Speaker 10: ice Cream Man, both the actual van and there's a

1604
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 10: guy that does Rospatos who just walks down the street

1605
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 10: honks a bicycle horn. And I am an actual child,

1606
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 10: and every time I heard that bicycle horn, just like

1607
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 10: I'm sick. It would just like run out with a

1608
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 10: lot of cash and by Rospatos, And for about a

1609
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 10: week you didn't hear him. He didn't A lot of

1610
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,080
Speaker 10: businesses were closed and then After about a week he

1611
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 10: started to see younger people that looked kind of like

1612
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:45,719
Speaker 10: the guy that used to do it, you know, usually

1613
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,440
Speaker 10: the son or the daughter sort of working for their parents.

1614
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 10: Now we're starting to see, you know, a little bit

1615
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 10: of a more of a return to regularity. But you know,

1616
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 10: one of the things that was really interesting about all

1617
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 10: this organizing is, you know, you have unions. You also

1618
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 10: have like former politicians and things like that. You know,

1619
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 10: I got an email from a former city councilman with

1620
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 10: the subject line that just said, it is happening here. Yeah,

1621
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:15,160
Speaker 10: and I remember thinking that's that's probably not good.

1622
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's not great talking of it is happening. I

1623
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,559
Speaker 12: think both the NML you were there, you went up

1624
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 12: to Camario right the raid on the cannabis grow operation

1625
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 12: and subsequent stand up that was just like a different

1626
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 12: scene from like DTLA. Can you explain if people aren't familiar,

1627
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 12: maybe very briefly explain the operation and the consequences.

1628
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 14: So Sean and I just sat in federal court for

1629
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,759
Speaker 14: five hours prior to that in downtown LA, where federal

1630
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 14: judge was listening to arguments being made in the hopes

1631
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 14: of getting a temporary restraining order on the grounds that

1632
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 14: these roving patrols in Los Angeles were unconstitutional, and we

1633
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 14: left court, and you know, one of our sources who

1634
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 14: was also there at the Federal courthouse was talking about

1635
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:09,520
Speaker 14: how they had heard about this raid happening in Cambrio

1636
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:13,880
Speaker 14: and Carpenteria, two different cannabis grow houses, and you know,

1637
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 14: by the time he left, it had been happening for

1638
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 14: five hours at that point, so they, under a warrant,

1639
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 14: had rated both of these cannabis co operations, which are

1640
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 14: you know, quite large. We're talking hundreds of workers who

1641
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 14: work in these processing centers and greenhouses and such. And

1642
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 14: local organizers, particularly organizers with VC Defensa, which is in

1643
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:40,759
Speaker 14: Ventura County, who has been doing really successful organizing following

1644
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 14: ice vehicles wherever they go to try and head off

1645
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 14: these roving patrols.

1646
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 6: They've really thrown a wrench in things up there.

1647
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 14: One of the organizers was following one of these border

1648
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 14: patrol vehicles and watched as the border patrol vehicle drove

1649
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:57,600
Speaker 14: past the gates of a military base out there, and

1650
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:59,639
Speaker 14: then kind of got an idea that, Okay, something big

1651
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 14: is happening.

1652
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 6: This is not normal, Like this is not.

1653
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 14: Usually what happens when we follow these cars usually they're

1654
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:07,760
Speaker 14: going into neighborhood or things of that nature. And so

1655
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 14: almost immediately these groups were organizing to try and see

1656
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 14: where these cars, armored vehicles were going, and they hit

1657
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 14: two different locations. One of the locations, the one in

1658
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:21,320
Speaker 14: came Rio, just outside of is kind of in the

1659
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 14: middle of nowhere.

1660
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,679
Speaker 6: It's flanked on all sides with farm fields.

1661
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 14: You know, there's dirt highways and you know, two lane

1662
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 14: highways that kind.

1663
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 6: Of bisect everything.

1664
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 14: And what they did when they started this raid is

1665
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 14: they blocked off the roads leading into and out of

1666
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 14: this particular greenhouse, right and so they had checkpoints like roadblocks,

1667
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 14: barricades at like four or five different locations at these

1668
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 14: intersections around the greenhouse, and at every single barricade there

1669
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 14: were people. So you know, there were these sort of

1670
01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 14: like face offs between heavily militarized border patrol agents kit.

1671
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:04,719
Speaker 6: It out in the nines.

1672
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 14: You know, everything that you could possibly think of. They had,

1673
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:11,640
Speaker 14: you know, these massive vehicles. National Guard helped them, you know,

1674
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,479
Speaker 14: block off these roads. The local police helped them block

1675
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 14: off these roads, which you know, if you know about

1676
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:20,000
Speaker 14: the sheriff in Ventura County. He's one of the only

1677
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 14: guys who doesn't care about sanctuary state ordinances.

1678
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 6: So it was a standoff essentially.

1679
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 14: And when Shawn and I arrived, it was right around dusk,

1680
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 14: so you know, it had been many hours since these

1681
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 14: raids began, and essentially what Border Patrol found is that

1682
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:40,599
Speaker 14: they couldn't leave because these roads were being blocked off.

1683
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 14: They got some fans through, but the vast majority of

1684
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 14: those vehicles were still there, and they weren't prepared to

1685
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 14: be there that long.

1686
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 6: They had to air drop supplies, water, food in order

1687
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 6: to you know, shore up these folks.

1688
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:59,680
Speaker 14: And you know, as word got out of the sort

1689
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 14: of commit unity response to this event, more people showed up.

1690
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 14: So by the time Sean and I got there, we

1691
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 14: were driving up list Posus and suddenly there's cars just

1692
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 14: parked on either side of the road, and we ended

1693
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 14: up parking, i think, like three quarters of a mile

1694
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 14: away from the nearest blockade and all have to hike

1695
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 14: in because there was no space for cars. You know,

1696
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:25,759
Speaker 14: I mean, we get up there and it's just about

1697
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,480
Speaker 14: dusk and you can hear the chanting in the distance,

1698
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 14: and you know, it was a really horrible and also

1699
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,799
Speaker 14: moving experience to walk up on you know, community response

1700
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 14: to this, and you know, the standoff continued for another

1701
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:43,680
Speaker 14: couple of hours, but it was you know, half of

1702
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 14: the folks there are concerned community members, folks of mixed

1703
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:51,559
Speaker 14: status families who understand the absolute terror of what happens

1704
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 14: when the government is chasing after your dad, you know,

1705
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 14: and also individuals who were looking for parents, uncles, you know,

1706
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 14: they had no idea idea where their family members were.

1707
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:04,679
Speaker 14: I think the total number of people who were detained

1708
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 14: and are probably going to be deported ended up somewhere

1709
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 14: around three hundred and sixty one across two farms. Yeah,

1710
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 14: it's significant, absolutely insane, you know, and the standoff lasted

1711
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 14: for a couple extra hours into the night. People turned

1712
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 14: on their car headlights so that we had light out there.

1713
01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 6: There was you know a.

1714
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 14: Pretty solid group of individuals who were in communication with

1715
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:33,720
Speaker 14: other blockades asking for folks to shift to other locations,

1716
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 14: sharing supplies and water, you know, and then border patrols

1717
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 14: started getting antsy. You could see them playing with their guns,

1718
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 14: you know, their riot munition's weapons. They were shifting, they're

1719
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 14: forming and reforming, and you know, organizers kind of understood

1720
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:54,240
Speaker 14: that something was about to happen, so they backed off,

1721
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 14: strategically retreated because there were marches planned for the next day.

1722
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,839
Speaker 14: They were leaving, I could see off in the distance.

1723
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 14: It witness this directly until we drove up on it.

1724
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:06,240
Speaker 14: But you could see off in the distance that all

1725
01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 14: of these cars, this line of cars was going around

1726
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 14: the back end of the factory on a side road

1727
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:15,440
Speaker 14: and then ending up a little bit farther down Lasosos

1728
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 14: and there was flashing lights everywhere. Turns out that they

1729
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 14: were trying to make their getaway and they hit what

1730
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 14: I think was probably a traffic jam because folks were

1731
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 14: ready to go. They had packed up their cars and

1732
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 14: they were leaving when they tear gassed everybody so they

1733
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:31,839
Speaker 14: could make their getaway.

1734
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 6: So, like Sean and I.

1735
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 14: By the time we drove up on it, because we

1736
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 14: saw in the distance, it was like that cloud is

1737
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 14: not normal, This isn't dust, Like that's tear gas.

1738
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 6: Let's get in the car and go see what's going on.

1739
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:45,360
Speaker 14: We drove up just as the last canisters were being

1740
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 14: spent on the road and it was just a fog,

1741
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 14: you know, and cars people were panicking. You know, you

1742
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 14: can tear gas in your fricking car, man. You know,

1743
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:58,640
Speaker 14: it was pretty pretty intense. Not a great experience.

1744
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:02,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, And videos from downtown LA on the first day

1745
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 12: of protests and as Sean was there covering it, they

1746
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 12: had agents in gas masks in their vehicles and they

1747
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 12: were tear gasing in front. And then that seems to

1748
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:12,639
Speaker 12: have been like their protocol, right, they will just tear

1749
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 12: gas the fuck out of the block and then we'll

1750
01:38:14,120 --> 01:38:16,880
Speaker 12: wear our gas masks inside our vehicles and leave. But

1751
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:19,960
Speaker 12: I wanted to explain people I've seen this a lot

1752
01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 12: will be wondering why Border Patrol with in Ventura, so, like,

1753
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 12: just to clarify or Oxnard or wherever they were at.

1754
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 12: The United States border isn't just a land border, like

1755
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:32,120
Speaker 12: the United States has four edges, just like well, there's

1756
01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 12: lots of edges, but you know, just like anything that's

1757
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 12: a big square, right, the ocean is a border too,

1758
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,840
Speaker 12: and Border Patrol has this somewhat arbitrar one hundred mile

1759
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:43,400
Speaker 12: enforcement zone in which they operate. So when you see

1760
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:45,799
Speaker 12: border patrol operating a long way from a land border,

1761
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,160
Speaker 12: that's because they are still within one hundred miles of

1762
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 12: a border. You know, to include the Great Lakes up north.

1763
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:55,320
Speaker 12: Most of the United States population lives inside a border

1764
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 12: patrol enforcement zone.

1765
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 14: Right, so you know, you won't see as many us

1766
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 14: there are warrants to be served. For example, in Omaha, Nebraska,

1767
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:07,600
Speaker 14: where there was a raid on a factory there that

1768
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:12,000
Speaker 14: was a warrant investigation. Generally speaking, though, Yeah, that's why

1769
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 14: you see it in Boston, in Chicago, in Florida, and

1770
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 14: in most of California. It lives, you know, withinside that border.

1771
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 14: And so you know, the thing that I can say

1772
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 14: is that that next day when we went up and

1773
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 14: spoke to organizers, kind of got the skinny on how

1774
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,160
Speaker 14: they were able to mobilize so quickly. As we were

1775
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 14: leaving that march, you know, a federal judge issued a

1776
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:41,600
Speaker 14: temporary restraining order in Los Angeles County. Seven cities I

1777
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 14: think that were a party to the suit.

1778
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:47,520
Speaker 10: It's not just Los Angeles County, it's the entire district

1779
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 10: of the CBD, thank you. Yes, yeah, it was quite

1780
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 10: a few cities filed suit as well as the ACLU

1781
01:39:54,560 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 10: farm workers several individual plaintiffs, which blocks them essentially from

1782
01:40:01,479 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 10: having a large scale rate with no warrant. So a

1783
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 10: judge basically told them, hey, you have to have a

1784
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 10: reason to be stopping and detaining people.

1785
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 9: The judge.

1786
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:14,960
Speaker 10: I don't want to read too much into a judge's

1787
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,920
Speaker 10: personal thoughts, but it became pretty clear even when they

1788
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 10: were having the hearing that the judge had pretty much

1789
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 10: had her own concerns that I don't think we're even

1790
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:28,680
Speaker 10: in the filings. And it also baighteen is essentially the

1791
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 10: basement in a federal building, which is where a significant

1792
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:34,799
Speaker 10: amount of the people are being held, and it forced

1793
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:38,599
Speaker 10: them to allow lawyers access as well as a lot

1794
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 10: of them were essentially in these rooms that were like

1795
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,160
Speaker 10: fifty to sixty people and there was one phone in

1796
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:48,000
Speaker 10: the middle of it, so they were not getting private counsel.

1797
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:52,240
Speaker 10: And with the restraining order, which I believe ends time

1798
01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 10: next week, now they actually have to provide access to lawyers,

1799
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,559
Speaker 10: you know, basic constitution stuff.

1800
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:03,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, man, let me tell you, it was really, really

1801
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,559
Speaker 14: bizarre to sit in a federal hearing. And now, look,

1802
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:10,800
Speaker 14: I've read transcripts from other reporters who listen in on

1803
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 14: these federal immigration issue hearings that we've had over the

1804
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,600
Speaker 14: last six months. It is a whole other experience to

1805
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:22,559
Speaker 14: be sitting in a courtroom with your little notepad, listening

1806
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 14: to the government's lawyers try and make the case that no,

1807
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:29,680
Speaker 14: we're not actually racially profiling people here. We are just

1808
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 14: stopping them based on their appearance, facial expressions, what they're wearing,

1809
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:35,760
Speaker 14: potentially the.

1810
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 6: Language that they choose to speak.

1811
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 14: And all of us sitting in the gallery are like, okay,

1812
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:42,960
Speaker 14: you actually made that argument in an open court. Cool,

1813
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:46,040
Speaker 14: you know what I mean, Like absolutely insane to hear

1814
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 14: that come out of a DOJ lawyer's mouth, where they're like,

1815
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:51,559
Speaker 14: we take umbrage with the fact that you're saying that

1816
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 14: we're racial profiling. By the way, here's all the things

1817
01:41:54,120 --> 01:41:57,520
Speaker 14: that we are doing, which is essentially profiling people.

1818
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:57,840
Speaker 6: You know.

1819
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 14: So the tro is essentially just in we're seeing the

1820
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:04,320
Speaker 14: Fourth Amendment, which is saying, you know, you cannot conduct

1821
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:07,720
Speaker 14: these roving patrols and stop people without probable cause or

1822
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 14: weren't you just can't do it, you know.

1823
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 6: And what that's done is we have seen much.

1824
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:19,200
Speaker 14: Less of the immigration enforcement activity that was a feature

1825
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:23,599
Speaker 14: of June and early July, and it's kind of moving

1826
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:26,479
Speaker 14: to the peripheric. I know that there are things happening

1827
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:30,439
Speaker 14: in San Diego, James, and we've seen some potential reports

1828
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:34,680
Speaker 14: out of Sacramento. We've seen reports up north in San Francisco,

1829
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,560
Speaker 14: you know, in terms of the enforcement zone in California.

1830
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:40,720
Speaker 14: We're also seeing ramping up immigration activities in places like

1831
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 14: Chicago and other cities Utah for example. And now in

1832
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 14: the last week and a half, we've seen half of

1833
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:53,400
Speaker 14: the federalized National Guard be taken off deployment and sent home.

1834
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,120
Speaker 14: And as of today, the twenty first of July, they're

1835
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 14: sending home the Marines, you know, which good right, But

1836
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 14: it's very clear that whatever they were trying to accomplish

1837
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:10,400
Speaker 14: in Los Angeles to make a point to be a

1838
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:14,559
Speaker 14: battering ram to set Los Angeles, which has always kind

1839
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 14: of been known as the sanctuary city and the surrounding

1840
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 14: area as like the example of what immigration enforcement activity

1841
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:26,720
Speaker 14: in this new era of Trump two point zero what

1842
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 14: have you will look like?

1843
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:30,800
Speaker 6: And ultimately I don't think they were successful.

1844
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 14: I mean you look at the Raven MacArthur Park for example,

1845
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:36,040
Speaker 14: or it was meant to be this you know, big

1846
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:40,640
Speaker 14: operation essensibly to try and crack down on fake ID processing.

1847
01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 14: Sean can talk to more of the context around MacArthur

1848
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,120
Speaker 14: Park than I can. But they showed up and organizers

1849
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 14: had already cleared the park. You know, we were there

1850
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 14: for two and a half hours before they even showed up,

1851
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:56,599
Speaker 14: and we watched as organizers put up signs. They were

1852
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 14: sitting at the home depot up the street making sure

1853
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 14: the folks knew that there might be a raid today.

1854
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 14: Like organizers had called through the entire park and said,

1855
01:44:04,320 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 14: this might happen today. If you're a mixed status or

1856
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,600
Speaker 14: you know, your status is not one with papers, you

1857
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 14: might want to go home. You know, they cleared the

1858
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:16,320
Speaker 14: soccer field, which had forty five people playing soccer on it,

1859
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:20,360
Speaker 14: you know, and so by the time these armored vehicles

1860
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:23,559
Speaker 14: are running down the street and doing all of their theater,

1861
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:27,720
Speaker 14: there's no one there at all. You know, there's journalists,

1862
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:30,320
Speaker 14: there's us. You know, there's a couple of unhoused folks

1863
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:32,559
Speaker 14: who said, you know, screw that, I don't want to leave,

1864
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:35,640
Speaker 14: but the vast majority of people had already gone, and

1865
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 14: so all that they got out of it was a

1866
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 14: really shitty hype video and a mayor and a governor

1867
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:46,160
Speaker 14: who were like really really pissed off, and you know,

1868
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:50,280
Speaker 14: a city that's just not going to just roll over

1869
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 14: and let this kind of crap happen, you know. And

1870
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:55,880
Speaker 14: I think that's really emblematic of like what's been going

1871
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 14: on in Los Angeles for the last six weeks is

1872
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 14: they did not get the response that they were expecting,

1873
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 14: and they weren't prepared for that response and for the

1874
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:11,600
Speaker 14: you know, for that to be a continuous response to unconstitutional, oppressive,

1875
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:17,960
Speaker 14: violent actions by ICE and by the agencies that are

1876
01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:19,160
Speaker 14: enabling ICE.

1877
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:22,599
Speaker 12: So yeah, you know, I think when we say city,

1878
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:25,160
Speaker 12: we should like be clear that we're referring to like

1879
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:29,720
Speaker 12: the city kua like community, not city like as government entity. Right, Like,

1880
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:32,559
Speaker 12: there really hasn't been any certainly here in San Diego.

1881
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 12: At Sanieo police departmentally don't assist ICE, but they do

1882
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:39,400
Speaker 12: show up to like form a coordinate around them, right like,

1883
01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:43,640
Speaker 12: to prevent any confrontation between them and protesters. And we

1884
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:47,479
Speaker 12: saw like every police agency, like literally every police agency

1885
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 12: in La County and also Ventura County sheriffs were there

1886
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 12: for the biggest protest days. The city hasn't used its

1887
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:58,320
Speaker 12: resources in that sense to stop this, right They've made

1888
01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:01,439
Speaker 12: rhetorical statements, but they haven't done anything with their police.

1889
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:03,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think this speaks to a kind of

1890
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 4: larger thing, which is that like these people thought they

1891
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:07,160
Speaker 4: could just come into cities around the country and just

1892
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:09,280
Speaker 4: shock and all everyone would really went over because like

1893
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 4: they think they're the Nazis. But the thing about the

1894
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:14,479
Speaker 4: Nazis is that like people supported them, right, Like all

1895
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:16,960
Speaker 4: the shit the Nazis were able to do happened because

1896
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 4: people wanted it to happen. And in a country where

1897
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 4: people don't want that shit to happen, where everyone looks

1898
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 4: at this and goes, what the fuck is going on,

1899
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:27,000
Speaker 4: we're like it's like seventy nine percent support for like

1900
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:29,120
Speaker 4: the effects of immigration on the US right now, where

1901
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 4: everyone's looking at this and just being like, no, they

1902
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 4: can't do it. There aren't enough of them. I don't know,

1903
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 4: Like it's just so stunning to me watching them like

1904
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:40,720
Speaker 4: have to do the tactical adaptations that like normally like

1905
01:46:41,040 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 4: protest groups have to do because the cops have tuned

1906
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:45,400
Speaker 4: more resources than them. But they're having to do it

1907
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 4: because they's just like every single person walking down the

1908
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 4: street is like fuck you eat shit, And so they're.

1909
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 3: Just like outnumbered everywhere they go.

1910
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:57,519
Speaker 4: It's and that's all to say, it's not like fucking horrible,

1911
01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:03,160
Speaker 4: because yeah, resisting fashion fucking sucks a lot of the time,

1912
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,640
Speaker 4: and a lot of people get hurt and it's hideous,

1913
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:12,720
Speaker 4: and also it's what has to be done. The last

1914
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:14,840
Speaker 4: thing that I wanted to ask is, so, with the

1915
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:17,800
Speaker 4: injunction kind of like coming to an end soon, what

1916
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:19,960
Speaker 4: do you think is the future of sort of what

1917
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 4: ICE is going to be doing, and what the response

1918
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 4: is going to be, and what border patrol are doing

1919
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:26,439
Speaker 4: in this sort of month to come.

1920
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:27,840
Speaker 3: It's hard to say.

1921
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 10: One of the things that I'm curious about is we

1922
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:34,599
Speaker 10: won't really know what the federal government's plan is until

1923
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:38,200
Speaker 10: I think it's the We'll just say late July when

1924
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 10: the next hearing is. So the temporar straining order ends

1925
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:46,160
Speaker 10: in late July. Generally speaking, with temporaries training orders on

1926
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:53,160
Speaker 10: law enforcement, what you see is they either continue while

1927
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 10: the hearings commence, or you see a pretty large mountain

1928
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:00,840
Speaker 10: of evidence that says, hey, we did this, this, this, this,

1929
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 10: and this that's changed it, so we're now sort of

1930
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:08,960
Speaker 10: in cooperation with the order. That is likely one of

1931
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:13,920
Speaker 10: the reasons why we've seen fewer raids here in Los Angeles. Ultimately,

1932
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:16,320
Speaker 10: a temporary restraining order is I don't want to call

1933
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:20,240
Speaker 10: it a wilder extreme action at all, but those are

1934
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 10: generally signed when a judge agrees that it is extremely

1935
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:31,000
Speaker 10: likely that, given the current situation, the plaintiffs have a case.

1936
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 10: So unless the federal government comes by with like this

1937
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:39,160
Speaker 10: gigantic mountain of new training and all these new plans

1938
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:41,879
Speaker 10: and things like that, my guess is we'll probably see

1939
01:48:42,280 --> 01:48:44,639
Speaker 10: at least some of the things in that temporary restraining

1940
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:47,439
Speaker 10: order continue. I also think it's possible that the federal

1941
01:48:47,439 --> 01:48:49,920
Speaker 10: government is just going to say, you know what, this

1942
01:48:49,960 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 10: temporary restraining order only applies to this specific area. We'll

1943
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:55,200
Speaker 10: just go somewhere else.

1944
01:48:56,040 --> 01:48:58,559
Speaker 12: It's the Central District of California, right, so like San

1945
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:03,759
Speaker 12: Luis Obispo Center, Arbora, then sure at La Riverside County

1946
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:04,080
Speaker 12: as well.

1947
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:05,640
Speaker 2: I think Riverside.

1948
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:09,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, it doesn't include San Diego, doesn't include the Northern District,

1949
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 12: which is most of the west coast of California, or

1950
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:14,800
Speaker 12: the Eastern District, which is most of the Valley and

1951
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 12: further north eastern California. So yeah, it's perfectly possible they

1952
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:20,400
Speaker 12: could go somewhere else and still do their shit within

1953
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,959
Speaker 12: California or like you say, like there are so many targets,

1954
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 12: right because immigrants are part of the fabric of our society.

1955
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 12: They are everywhere, and that's you know, they can just

1956
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 12: go for wherever they think a soft target is.

1957
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:37,640
Speaker 14: And there's also work noting that. You know, these organizers

1958
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:39,080
Speaker 14: are going to continue to organize.

1959
01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 8: Right.

1960
01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 14: So these groups Central CSO and Union of Barrio and

1961
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:47,160
Speaker 14: you know the various other groups. Again, I've been around

1962
01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 14: for decades. VC Defense that has been around since twenty sixteen. Right,

1963
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:53,519
Speaker 14: this is only a portion of the organizing that they do.

1964
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 14: You know, they didn't start with or they will not

1965
01:49:57,880 --> 01:49:59,759
Speaker 14: end with just these patrols.

1966
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:00,160
Speaker 6: Right.

1967
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 14: So they've built out infrastructure and mutual aid group networks

1968
01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 14: that are buying groceries for folks and mixed status families

1969
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,240
Speaker 14: that are covering the sort of bills that are not

1970
01:50:10,320 --> 01:50:12,719
Speaker 14: being paid because people are too afraid to go to work.

1971
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 14: They're doing childcare, they're getting kids to school, they're trying

1972
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:18,640
Speaker 14: to provide legal defense. You know, like these are you know,

1973
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:22,400
Speaker 14: coalitions of individuals who live in these areas who are

1974
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 14: doing long term organizing to shore up the community whether

1975
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 14: or not there is an onslaught of immigration enforcement activity

1976
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:32,559
Speaker 14: in a certain geographical area.

1977
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 6: So in terms of organizing.

1978
01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:37,400
Speaker 14: It's just going to keep happening and that's good, right,

1979
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:42,559
Speaker 14: And you know, I think that what's hardening to see

1980
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:47,480
Speaker 14: after the last you know, seven weeks of really intense,

1981
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:53,520
Speaker 14: really scary, really horrifying kidnappings and detainments on the streets

1982
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:57,839
Speaker 14: in southern California, is you know, an equal and often

1983
01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:01,720
Speaker 14: more you know, stronger response to it from the community

1984
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:03,639
Speaker 14: that you know reminds you that this is.

1985
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 6: Not the end and.

1986
01:51:06,680 --> 01:51:10,080
Speaker 14: Folks are prepared for picking up the slack when things

1987
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:12,839
Speaker 14: fall through. You know, people are not falling through the cracks.

1988
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 14: People are not having their lives shattered without someone watching

1989
01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:17,160
Speaker 14: and trying to help.

1990
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:20,080
Speaker 6: So that's an important piece there, you know.

1991
01:51:20,120 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 14: So I would say that in terms of the response

1992
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 14: and what happens next, like it's a multi front thing.

1993
01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 14: You have these legal cases finding their way through the courts.

1994
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 14: You have from all levels, right, and you have individuals

1995
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 14: who are trying to keep track of folks who have

1996
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:39,479
Speaker 14: been detained and deported and sending money back to Mexico

1997
01:51:39,560 --> 01:51:41,760
Speaker 14: or whatever, you know, other country that these folks are

1998
01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:44,840
Speaker 14: being sent back to making sure that things are as

1999
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:47,200
Speaker 14: much as they can. You know, there aren't any rips

2000
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:49,320
Speaker 14: in the safety net. And I think that's the main

2001
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 14: lesson of the last seven weeks is like that sort

2002
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:56,799
Speaker 14: of response is incredible, and you can replicate it anywhere

2003
01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:57,280
Speaker 14: that you are.

2004
01:51:58,040 --> 01:51:59,920
Speaker 6: You know a lot of folks.

2005
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:01,640
Speaker 14: Like to, you know, kind of roll their eyes at

2006
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,080
Speaker 14: the idea of like organizing starts with.

2007
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:05,000
Speaker 6: Talking to your neighbor.

2008
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,120
Speaker 14: No, actually it does, right, And you know there's these models,

2009
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:13,519
Speaker 14: especially in southern and central California, where this organizing works right.

2010
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 14: It's not particularly ideological in many ways, sometimes it is,

2011
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 14: but the basic function of it is to make sure

2012
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:23,559
Speaker 14: that your neighbor doesn't fall into a hole, right, And

2013
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:25,599
Speaker 14: they'll do the same for you so you don't fall

2014
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,640
Speaker 14: into a hole should something happen to you. So you know,

2015
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:30,960
Speaker 14: start there and take a look at these models that

2016
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:36,000
Speaker 14: these absolute fucking heroes pardon my language, are doing in

2017
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 14: this area and know that you can also do that.

2018
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:43,599
Speaker 4: So yeah, these people in every facet of this are

2019
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 4: just you somewhere else or help.

2020
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,840
Speaker 3: Maybe they are literally you. I don't know. Yah, I

2021
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:50,320
Speaker 3: keep up the good work.

2022
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:53,479
Speaker 12: Sure do you want to explain to us very briefly

2023
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:58,960
Speaker 12: the FBI arrests and the case against at least one

2024
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:01,560
Speaker 12: of us and so see so members.

2025
01:53:02,080 --> 01:53:06,479
Speaker 10: Well, right now, there's only one criminal complaint, and that's

2026
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:12,200
Speaker 10: for Alejandro Oriana, who is accused of conspiracy to commit

2027
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 10: civil disorder as well as aiding and embedding a conspiracy

2028
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:20,040
Speaker 10: to commit civil disorder. The criminal complaint, all it really

2029
01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:25,919
Speaker 10: says is that he gave a dispense with face shields

2030
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:29,320
Speaker 10: to protesters who were dressed like they might do something bad.

2031
01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 10: At no point during the criminal complaint does it even say, hey,

2032
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:35,679
Speaker 10: he handed it to a guy and then that guy

2033
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:36,719
Speaker 10: committed a crime.

2034
01:53:36,920 --> 01:53:38,000
Speaker 3: Doesn't even go that far.

2035
01:53:38,439 --> 01:53:41,200
Speaker 10: It just goes those guys look kind of I don't know,

2036
01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:46,240
Speaker 10: they look like they're about to do something, and says

2037
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:47,960
Speaker 10: that you know, these people were dressed in such a

2038
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:52,240
Speaker 10: way where it might interfere with law enforcement activities, like

2039
01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:56,040
Speaker 10: you know, it would deaden the impact of less leevil weapons.

2040
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:58,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean the impact of leslie for weapons on

2041
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:00,439
Speaker 12: your face is potentially told.

2042
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:03,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, and you know, beyond that, you know, there was

2043
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:05,639
Speaker 10: a search warrant for another member of Centro CSO who

2044
01:54:05,720 --> 01:54:08,800
Speaker 10: was roughly handled by FBI agents on a walk through

2045
01:54:08,840 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 10: the park and was given a search warrant and her

2046
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:17,360
Speaker 10: phone was taken. I asked the US Attorney's office if

2047
01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:21,080
Speaker 10: they were related, and first I was told I don't

2048
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:23,200
Speaker 10: know what you're talking about, which I thought was a

2049
01:54:23,240 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 10: little interesting. Never gotten that response from any official, and

2050
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:30,720
Speaker 10: then a few hours later got an official response that said, no,

2051
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 10: it is another case. So what that means time will tell,

2052
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:37,680
Speaker 10: but I think it's likely that there will be more

2053
01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:40,040
Speaker 10: to come. On top of that. I think it's interesting

2054
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:44,120
Speaker 10: to note that the first arraignment for Oreana was an

2055
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:45,520
Speaker 10: absolutely packed court and.

2056
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:46,120
Speaker 3: Support of them.

2057
01:54:46,760 --> 01:54:49,040
Speaker 4: Where can people find you two's work and where can

2058
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,360
Speaker 4: people support you as you do a whole bunch of

2059
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:56,480
Speaker 4: incredibly critical journalism on the continuing resistance to the fascist

2060
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 4: deportation campaign.

2061
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:00,320
Speaker 14: A lot of my reporting goes to bluesky, so you

2062
01:55:00,360 --> 01:55:03,480
Speaker 14: can find me at melviw or Blueskuy dot social. I

2063
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:07,080
Speaker 14: have a newsletter, Words about Work dot blog, and you

2064
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:09,680
Speaker 14: can also find me on my Instagram. My link tree

2065
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:11,560
Speaker 14: is linked in all sorts of places, so you can

2066
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 14: find all those links in one convenient.

2067
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 3: Place, including the description of this episode.

2068
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:20,120
Speaker 6: Hey yeah, those are the places where you can find me.

2069
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:23,800
Speaker 10: You can find me on a cat with news on

2070
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:28,160
Speaker 10: all social media platforms, although most of my sort of

2071
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 10: breaking stories come on Blue Sky first, and I'm a

2072
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:36,560
Speaker 10: freelance journalist, so usually you can just google my name

2073
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:38,920
Speaker 10: and you'll see some stories there. On my Blue Sky

2074
01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:41,920
Speaker 10: and Instagram, there's a link tree if you want to

2075
01:55:41,960 --> 01:55:42,920
Speaker 10: support Hell.

2076
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:46,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and to everyone listening to the show, always remember

2077
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:49,760
Speaker 4: you are many, they are few.

2078
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:14,160
Speaker 12: Pedophile is a correct pronunciation going into.

2079
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:17,000
Speaker 2: This just for and that's the sentence we're starting the

2080
01:56:17,080 --> 01:56:21,000
Speaker 2: episode with. Welcome to It could happen here a podcast

2081
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 2: where we teach you how to pronounce the word pedophile

2082
01:56:24,360 --> 01:56:30,480
Speaker 2: or pedophile or pedophily your Greek. You know, that's not

2083
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:39,560
Speaker 2: how the Greeks say it. Welcome to the show. We're

2084
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:43,240
Speaker 2: talking about some breaking news about friend of the pod

2085
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 2: Kylie Ray Jepstein, a joke I did on the Behind

2086
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:49,720
Speaker 2: the Bastards episodes about Epstein that nobody liked.

2087
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:50,879
Speaker 12: Least of all the lawyers.

2088
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:52,800
Speaker 3: I don't like that either.

2089
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:56,400
Speaker 2: It wasn't even really a joke, just something I shouldn't

2090
01:56:56,440 --> 01:56:58,000
Speaker 2: have said. Yeah, so this is all.

2091
01:56:57,880 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 3: Barely breaking news because this is stuff that we've known

2092
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:01,760
Speaker 3: about for like ever.

2093
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 2: None of this is a mystery. We're not going to

2094
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:07,480
Speaker 2: be blowing any minds here that Jeffrey Epstein sexually trafficked

2095
01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 2: and molested children, or that Donald Trump probably did as well,

2096
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:14,000
Speaker 2: or well, he didn't do the trafficking, but you know

2097
01:57:14,080 --> 01:57:16,680
Speaker 2: he was a party to it. Yeah, allegedly, you know,

2098
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:20,320
Speaker 2: being alleged by a lot of people, Rupert Murdoch, one

2099
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:23,320
Speaker 2: of them by Dach, who is currently being sued for

2100
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:25,720
Speaker 2: ten million dollars in his capacity as owner of The

2101
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:29,000
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal. So on July seventeenth, twenty twenty five,

2102
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:33,400
Speaker 2: at six forty five pm Eastern Standard time, the Wall

2103
01:57:33,480 --> 01:57:37,480
Speaker 2: Street Journal published an article with the title Jeffrey Epstein's

2104
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:40,440
Speaker 2: friends sent him body letters for a fiftieth birthday album.

2105
01:57:40,560 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 2: One was from Donald Trump.

2106
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:43,840
Speaker 3: Body is one way to describe it.

2107
01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:46,320
Speaker 2: Bondy is one way to describe it.

2108
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:49,400
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, indeed, it's really good to see a leftist

2109
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:51,640
Speaker 3: outlet like Wall Street Journal take this thing head on.

2110
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeh finally, Yes, you know, I've had my issues with them,

2111
01:57:55,120 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 2: you know, being hardline Marxists as they are. That doesn't

2112
01:57:58,000 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 2: fully del with my own beliefs. But you have to

2113
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:02,840
Speaker 2: resp sfeckt them in this instance. You know, I'm not

2114
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:05,160
Speaker 2: as much of a Stalinist as the Wall Street Journal

2115
01:58:05,200 --> 01:58:06,160
Speaker 2: famed Stalinists.

2116
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's why they've counseled us, because they're two wake.

2117
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 13: Yeah.

2118
01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:13,040
Speaker 2: The Little Red Book published by the Wall Street Journal,

2119
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:23,200
Speaker 2: Big malfansmphlets imprint.

2120
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 12: History would absolve me. Yeah, a little Red Book.

2121
01:58:23,280 --> 01:58:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. They've got a beautiful leather bound edition of

2122
01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:32,600
Speaker 2: Ted Kaczinski's manifesto. Speaking of letter bound editions, Gillan Maxwell,

2123
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:35,760
Speaker 2: I think this initially came out because it was a

2124
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 2: Spanish like small scale publisher that published that put out

2125
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 2: this like leather bound book for Gillan for to give

2126
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:44,960
Speaker 2: to Jeffrey and god do I want to see the

2127
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:47,760
Speaker 2: whole copy because I am curious to who else submitted letters.

2128
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:52,640
Speaker 2: But during the FBI investigation and everything around Epstein, this

2129
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:55,520
Speaker 2: was found and it got leaked out to the Wall

2130
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:57,680
Speaker 2: Street Journal. I think the New York Times has now

2131
01:58:57,720 --> 01:58:59,200
Speaker 2: seen it, so they're not the only people who have

2132
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:02,640
Speaker 2: seen it. You've got a piece of paper and there

2133
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:05,680
Speaker 2: is a drawing that may or may not have been

2134
01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:08,000
Speaker 2: done by Trump, but is alleged by some to have

2135
01:59:08,040 --> 01:59:10,440
Speaker 2: been done by Trump. Although he denies this, having said

2136
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:13,240
Speaker 2: that he has never written a picture in his life.

2137
01:59:13,320 --> 01:59:16,160
Speaker 2: But it's like a silhouette of a naked woman. And

2138
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 2: then Donald Trump's signature where pubic hare would be right,

2139
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:24,080
Speaker 2: classy man, Yeah, our current.

2140
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:28,000
Speaker 12: Our president. Yeah, I had the guy with the nuclear codes.

2141
01:59:28,440 --> 01:59:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. And then the actual text on the

2142
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:35,320
Speaker 2: letter is written in the form of like a dialogue. Right,

2143
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 2: So it's like written as like a fake script of

2144
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:44,040
Speaker 2: a conversation between Trump and Epstein voiceover. There must be

2145
01:59:44,120 --> 01:59:47,480
Speaker 2: more to life than having everything, Donald, Yes, there is,

2146
01:59:47,680 --> 01:59:50,360
Speaker 2: but I won't tell you what it is, Jeffrey, nor

2147
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:53,240
Speaker 2: will I since I also know what it is. Donald.

2148
01:59:53,400 --> 01:59:57,000
Speaker 2: We have certain things in common, Jeffrey. Jeffrey, yes, we do,

2149
01:59:57,120 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 2: come to think of it, Donald, Enigma's never a Have

2150
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:03,440
Speaker 2: you noticed that, Jeffrey. As a matter of fact, it

2151
02:00:03,480 --> 02:00:06,120
Speaker 2: was clear to me the last time I saw you Trump,

2152
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:09,440
Speaker 2: A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may

2153
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 2: every day be another wonderful secret.

2154
02:00:12,040 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 4: The thing I need a listener to understand about this episode, right,

2155
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:18,720
Speaker 4: that is not the most incriminating thing Donald Trump is

2156
02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 4: going to say in this episode.

2157
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 2: It's not even close to it. Although it is It

2158
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,400
Speaker 2: is very funny. This could hardly be more directive. The

2159
02:00:26,560 --> 02:00:29,560
Speaker 2: letter was just Jeffrey, I love being a pedophile with

2160
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:33,960
Speaker 2: you love Donald Trump? Right, Like that's less.

2161
02:00:33,720 --> 02:00:38,600
Speaker 3: Direct yet he has gone further. Yeah, but like he's

2162
02:00:38,760 --> 02:00:39,560
Speaker 3: just saying it.

2163
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 2: So the Wall Street Journal publishes this, and they publish

2164
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:46,640
Speaker 2: this with like the least bit of editorializing that they can, right,

2165
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:50,880
Speaker 2: they're being very careful with this. Trump loses his fucking mind.

2166
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:52,840
Speaker 2: And this is obviously coming on the heels I probably

2167
02:00:52,840 --> 02:00:54,680
Speaker 2: should have started with this important context. This is coming

2168
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:58,680
Speaker 2: on the heels of Pambondi and the Justice Department announcing actually,

2169
02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:02,320
Speaker 2: everything's cool and they're not going to be dropping any

2170
02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:04,920
Speaker 2: more info on Epstein. There's no client list or anything.

2171
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:07,280
Speaker 2: After Bondi had earlier this year been like I have

2172
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:09,760
Speaker 2: the Epstein client list on my desk, and they handed

2173
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:13,600
Speaker 2: out the Epstein papers, you know, release one, these like

2174
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:16,640
Speaker 2: big binders that fucking the limbs of TikTok Lady and

2175
02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:18,839
Speaker 2: Jack Pasobaic and a munch of other right wing influencers.

2176
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:20,360
Speaker 2: Well walked out of the White House with these big

2177
02:01:20,360 --> 02:01:22,600
Speaker 2: binders being like, Aha, we've got it. We've got all

2178
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:24,920
Speaker 2: the files that are gonna put all the dims behind jail.

2179
02:01:25,280 --> 02:01:27,200
Speaker 2: And then a couple months later, BONDI and the DJ

2180
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 2: is like, actually, there's nothing else to tell anybody. We've

2181
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:31,600
Speaker 2: got nothing. There's nothing interesting at all about Epstein. So

2182
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:34,720
Speaker 2: then this shit comes out, right, it gets leaked from someone,

2183
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:38,120
Speaker 2: presumably someone within the FBI. Right, I think that's what

2184
02:01:38,160 --> 02:01:41,120
Speaker 2: we're left to assume at this point, because this was

2185
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:43,040
Speaker 2: revealed as a part of their investigation. Right, this is

2186
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:45,240
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that was confiscated, you know, when

2187
02:01:45,240 --> 02:01:48,600
Speaker 2: Gilan Maxwell got taken into custody. Okay, so a couple

2188
02:01:48,640 --> 02:01:50,480
Speaker 2: of things have happened since then. For one thing, Trump

2189
02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:53,440
Speaker 2: is suing the Wall Street Journal for I believe at

2190
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:57,440
Speaker 2: least twenty billion dollars. This lawsuit was launched in a

2191
02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:01,080
Speaker 2: federal court in Miami. Trump said, true's social The lawsuits

2192
02:02:01,120 --> 02:02:03,200
Speaker 2: filed not only in behalf of your favorite president, all

2193
02:02:03,200 --> 02:02:05,520
Speaker 2: caps me, but in order to continue standing up for

2194
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:08,240
Speaker 2: all Americans who will no longer tolerate the abusive wrongdoings

2195
02:02:08,240 --> 02:02:10,880
Speaker 2: of the fake news media. So this is what Trump

2196
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:14,240
Speaker 2: is claiming. And obviously Trump denies any wrongdoing, denies anything

2197
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 2: but kind of lightly knowing Jeffrey Epstein and for some context,

2198
02:02:18,120 --> 02:02:20,400
Speaker 2: Trump and Epstein have been seen together numerous times. There

2199
02:02:20,400 --> 02:02:23,920
Speaker 2: are pictures and videos of them both together. Trump talked

2200
02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:27,200
Speaker 2: about in interviews, including one with New York Magazine where

2201
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:29,960
Speaker 2: he said, like me, Jeffrey's known to really like women,

2202
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 2: and some of them are on the younger side. Right.

2203
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:34,080
Speaker 2: He's been saying shit like this for years.

2204
02:02:34,280 --> 02:02:37,440
Speaker 3: Quote. I've known Jeffer fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a

2205
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,160
Speaker 3: lot of fun to be with it. Deeven said, he

2206
02:02:39,200 --> 02:02:41,440
Speaker 3: likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many

2207
02:02:41,480 --> 02:02:43,720
Speaker 3: of them are on the younger side, no doubt about it.

2208
02:02:43,800 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 3: Jeffrey enjoys his social life. Two thousand and two, we

2209
02:02:46,760 --> 02:02:50,320
Speaker 3: know they were friends. The information suggests that I think

2210
02:02:50,320 --> 02:02:52,680
Speaker 3: it's around two thousand and five or six, they had

2211
02:02:52,720 --> 02:02:55,320
Speaker 3: a falling out over a real estate deal. With the

2212
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 3: real estate deal and one alleged incident at mar A Lago, Yes,

2213
02:02:59,480 --> 02:03:02,760
Speaker 3: where jeff Free was acting quote unquote inappropriately to a

2214
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,720
Speaker 3: daughter of a member of the club and then Trump

2215
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:07,640
Speaker 3: barred him from the club. And Trump has claimed this

2216
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 3: multiple times through the years. Between this and the real

2217
02:03:09,960 --> 02:03:12,480
Speaker 3: estate deal that's led to their falling out.

2218
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:16,280
Speaker 2: There's other stories. There's one. I've heard that Epstein got

2219
02:03:16,280 --> 02:03:19,800
Speaker 2: really angry because Trump was physically like touching one of

2220
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:23,640
Speaker 2: Epstein's girlfriends, like one of his actual like partner girlfriends,

2221
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:25,560
Speaker 2: and that he got angry over that. We don't know,

2222
02:03:25,800 --> 02:03:28,160
Speaker 2: but we do know that they were seen socially together

2223
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:30,280
Speaker 2: and talked about being friends for quite a while.

2224
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,680
Speaker 3: They were neighbors, and they were like socialites, both in

2225
02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:34,120
Speaker 3: New York and in Frorida.

2226
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:36,520
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, for a while, from the eighties up through

2227
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:40,480
Speaker 2: the early two thousands. Right now. Trump has denied sending

2228
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 2: this letter. He said that this doesn't sound like me.

2229
02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:45,400
Speaker 2: He wrote on truth Social I don't draw pictures.

2230
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:46,960
Speaker 3: Now that was a lot.

2231
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:51,320
Speaker 2: This has sparked one of my favorite investigatory cycles. The

2232
02:03:51,320 --> 02:03:53,400
Speaker 2: New York Times published an article right after this post

2233
02:03:53,400 --> 02:03:55,960
Speaker 2: that says Trump says he doesn't draw pictures, but many

2234
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 2: of his sketches sold an auction, and it's like photos

2235
02:03:59,240 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 2: of a bunch of To be fair, none of these

2236
02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:04,560
Speaker 2: are sketches of naked women. But there's a crude black

2237
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:07,160
Speaker 2: marker drawing of the Empire, state building.

2238
02:04:07,080 --> 02:04:08,360
Speaker 3: A lot of city skylines.

2239
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:12,280
Speaker 2: Allegedly, the drawing of the woman was drawn in black marker, right,

2240
02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:14,440
Speaker 2: and they're noting that he did a lot of black

2241
02:04:14,480 --> 02:04:17,520
Speaker 2: marker drawings. Right, he signs his bills in shoppy, doesn't

2242
02:04:17,600 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 2: he signs his bills in sharpie, And that he has

2243
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,560
Speaker 2: a signature that does kind of look like pubic hair. Right,

2244
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:26,520
Speaker 2: if you were to like draw a crude set of Genitalia,

2245
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:30,160
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's signature could stand in for pubic hair, right,

2246
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:33,040
Speaker 2: Like the way that he signs this signature, that's one

2247
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:35,959
Speaker 2: way you could interpret it, right, It's also.

2248
02:04:35,800 --> 02:04:37,919
Speaker 4: Worth noting, and I think this is actually really important

2249
02:04:38,440 --> 02:04:41,760
Speaker 4: when he signs this, right, he signs it like like

2250
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:43,880
Speaker 4: on this picture of like the Empire State Building. Right,

2251
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:46,160
Speaker 4: it's a really shitty drawing the Umper State Building. His

2252
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:50,200
Speaker 4: signature is like right next to the building. If you're

2253
02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:52,480
Speaker 4: drawing a picture of a naked woman and you shift it,

2254
02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 4: like if.

2255
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:55,800
Speaker 2: The Empire State Building was sitting down in like an

2256
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:59,600
Speaker 2: L shape and had pubiccare, that's where the signature right, bes.

2257
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:01,760
Speaker 3: Everything is exactly the same.

2258
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 12: It's the SIPI State Building had pubic care.

2259
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 2: There's also a drawing that he did. It's called the

2260
02:05:07,360 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 2: money Tree drawing. It looks like if the giving tree

2261
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:12,000
Speaker 2: was filled with dollars, and again, the signature kind of

2262
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:13,040
Speaker 2: looks like pubic hair.

2263
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 12: So Trump's a little artist, just like a since underneath

2264
02:05:17,240 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 12: the money tree to meditate. That gets his alternative.

2265
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,600
Speaker 3: Trump did like yearly drawings and the doodles for like

2266
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:25,800
Speaker 3: charity auctions, and that's what most of these are from.

2267
02:05:26,200 --> 02:05:28,400
Speaker 2: And to be fair, a lot of US presidents have

2268
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:32,680
Speaker 2: been doodlers, you know. Ike, our former president doodled himself

2269
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:35,560
Speaker 2: with huge muscles during a meeting talking about the overthrow

2270
02:05:35,600 --> 02:05:36,600
Speaker 2: of Guatemala by the.

2271
02:05:36,560 --> 02:05:42,080
Speaker 3: Same it's so funny.

2272
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:45,040
Speaker 2: It's so funny. I mean, so many people died in

2273
02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 2: a horrible deaths, but it's really pretty funny.

2274
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:49,200
Speaker 12: Chad Eisenhower.

2275
02:05:51,240 --> 02:05:55,720
Speaker 4: Just shredded entire indigitous civilizations, wipe off the face of

2276
02:05:55,720 --> 02:05:57,080
Speaker 4: the earth forever, Like.

2277
02:05:57,160 --> 02:05:58,800
Speaker 2: Look at Chad Eisenhower.

2278
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:02,879
Speaker 12: If you have a chat eise in how a tattoo,

2279
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:07,680
Speaker 12: please submit it to Sophie on Twitter. She's just I write, Okay.

2280
02:06:07,840 --> 02:06:12,680
Speaker 2: Look, I feel confident saying iHeartRadio will pay for anyone's tattoo.

2281
02:06:12,760 --> 02:06:14,960
Speaker 2: If you want to get Chad Eisenhower, as long as

2282
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:16,520
Speaker 2: it's a facial tattoo, you know.

2283
02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:18,640
Speaker 12: Yeah, you can get it in that uv ink that

2284
02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:21,120
Speaker 12: doing tattoos in when you're in.

2285
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:22,480
Speaker 2: The club, people.

2286
02:06:27,320 --> 02:06:30,360
Speaker 12: Beautiful stuff, triggering a stampede from the dooms.

2287
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 8: Fill.

2288
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna cause another one of those fucking Jersey

2289
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:38,280
Speaker 2: nightclub fires that killed one and twenty people. It's not funny.

2290
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:41,120
Speaker 2: A lot of people died anyway. There was also another

2291
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:43,280
Speaker 2: God I should have it up here, but it's another

2292
02:06:43,320 --> 02:06:47,839
Speaker 2: investigation into like does the writing that Trump did sound

2293
02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:50,160
Speaker 2: like his other writing? And they found that Number One,

2294
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:53,080
Speaker 2: Trump has a number of times in the past put

2295
02:06:53,120 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 2: out writing in the form of a hypothetical script between

2296
02:06:56,640 --> 02:06:59,040
Speaker 2: other people. That is a thing he's done in the past.

2297
02:06:59,480 --> 02:07:03,800
Speaker 2: And then multiple phrases that were used in this letter

2298
02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:06,480
Speaker 2: are phrases he has used in the past, in some

2299
02:07:06,520 --> 02:07:07,640
Speaker 2: cases multiple times.

2300
02:07:07,680 --> 02:07:10,400
Speaker 3: Except some of the Mega investigators were able to use

2301
02:07:10,440 --> 02:07:14,120
Speaker 3: Grok to ask if Trump ever used the word enigma before,

2302
02:07:14,400 --> 02:07:17,440
Speaker 3: and Grok said no, So we closed that case. Never

2303
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:19,320
Speaker 3: mind the fact that he said it on the campaign

2304
02:07:19,360 --> 02:07:23,480
Speaker 3: trail in twenty sixteen, and he said multiple times in

2305
02:07:23,560 --> 02:07:24,880
Speaker 3: his best selling.

2306
02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:26,880
Speaker 12: Book No Evidence he wrote that book.

2307
02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:28,400
Speaker 2: He loves the word Well, I'm not gonna say he

2308
02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:31,800
Speaker 2: loves it, but he's used the word enigma before, right,

2309
02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:36,000
Speaker 2: He described Ben Carson as an enigma. He's described Dan

2310
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:39,040
Speaker 2: Rather as an enigma. So maybe he and Epstein were

2311
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:43,200
Speaker 2: both fucking Dan Rather. Is that possible. I'm gonna say yes.

2312
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:45,600
Speaker 3: I think you should also be impeached for that.

2313
02:07:46,160 --> 02:07:46,760
Speaker 2: I think so.

2314
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:49,720
Speaker 12: I'm sorry I have just just kept talking of Grook.

2315
02:07:49,840 --> 02:07:53,040
Speaker 12: I'm reading the Trump versus murderc lawsuit, which describe Eggs

2316
02:07:53,040 --> 02:08:00,440
Speaker 12: dot Com as quote the Internet's watering hole. What no, sorry, no, yeah,

2317
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:02,800
Speaker 12: no longer the everything website.

2318
02:08:02,920 --> 02:08:06,080
Speaker 2: The watering hole. What are you doing? What is wrong

2319
02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:09,480
Speaker 2: with you? People? Fucking jump off a bridge? You stupid sons?

2320
02:08:09,480 --> 02:08:09,960
Speaker 2: A bitious.

2321
02:08:10,360 --> 02:08:12,840
Speaker 3: It is interesting you still really met at Elon because

2322
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:15,360
Speaker 3: Elon is also one of the originators of this current

2323
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:18,120
Speaker 3: wave of like Epstein focus.

2324
02:08:18,040 --> 02:08:20,880
Speaker 2: And it's interesting after the letter came out, Elon was

2325
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:23,240
Speaker 2: just like, obviously a fake. Obviously. I think he's scared.

2326
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:25,480
Speaker 2: I think some g men showed up at his door

2327
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:28,120
Speaker 2: and were like, this is a nice life you've got,

2328
02:08:28,160 --> 02:08:30,040
Speaker 2: fucking Elon Musk. It would be a shame of a

2329
02:08:30,080 --> 02:08:33,200
Speaker 2: hell fire missile hit your house, hit your fucking compound

2330
02:08:33,240 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 2: with all of your wives.

2331
02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:36,120
Speaker 4: But the thing is, and this is the fun part

2332
02:08:36,160 --> 02:08:38,560
Speaker 4: about this is like it doesn't matter what Elon says now,

2333
02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:41,640
Speaker 4: like he already opened the floodgates and the games are fucking.

2334
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:44,480
Speaker 2: Open now, like no, no, no, do you.

2335
02:08:44,480 --> 02:08:46,280
Speaker 3: Know what else the gates are open from.

2336
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, is our advertisers and we're back. So this is

2337
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:57,480
Speaker 2: the gist of the situation. Now, this letter is out,

2338
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:00,760
Speaker 2: and a lot of people, even I and I still

2339
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:03,920
Speaker 2: am to some extent kind of there's been so many

2340
02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:06,040
Speaker 2: ops this that has to be it for old Donnie Trump.

2341
02:09:08,080 --> 02:09:11,120
Speaker 2: One Nitny wiggles his fucking way out right, you know

2342
02:09:11,680 --> 02:09:14,360
Speaker 2: that said this does seem to be pissing off a

2343
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:19,400
Speaker 2: lot of his more diehard people, right, including fucking the

2344
02:09:19,440 --> 02:09:21,560
Speaker 2: Dilbert guy. We don't need to give any name besides

2345
02:09:21,600 --> 02:09:23,640
Speaker 2: the Dilbert guy, but the Dilbert Guy's pissed about this.

2346
02:09:23,720 --> 02:09:27,120
Speaker 2: A lot of people who have been like really religious

2347
02:09:27,200 --> 02:09:29,440
Speaker 2: Trump supporters are pissed as a result of this.

2348
02:09:30,040 --> 02:09:33,160
Speaker 12: Sean Ryan, the right pissed about this.

2349
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:36,800
Speaker 3: Even Speaker of the House Mike Johnson has been more

2350
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:40,520
Speaker 3: Trump critical the past week and has given interviews to

2351
02:09:40,920 --> 02:09:46,160
Speaker 3: another mega influencer turned soft Trump critic, now Benny Johnson,

2352
02:09:46,640 --> 02:09:50,160
Speaker 3: about how Trump handled this so poorly. A lot of

2353
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:51,680
Speaker 3: them are trying to make this down into like a

2354
02:09:51,720 --> 02:09:55,440
Speaker 3: messaging fail or like a rhetoric fumble, which obviously it's

2355
02:09:55,480 --> 02:09:58,720
Speaker 3: so much more substantial than that. But cracks are forming

2356
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:00,760
Speaker 3: in a way that we haven't released scene for his

2357
02:10:00,840 --> 02:10:02,160
Speaker 3: base in a long time.

2358
02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:04,080
Speaker 4: And the thing I think is really important about this

2359
02:10:04,400 --> 02:10:08,160
Speaker 4: is that, Okay, so this is me a going history mode.

2360
02:10:08,320 --> 02:10:11,680
Speaker 4: If you look at a thing that has been studied

2361
02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:13,520
Speaker 4: by an enormous amount by the left, and I think

2362
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:16,720
Speaker 4: studied mostly wrong, which is how did the Bolsheviks actually

2363
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:20,120
Speaker 4: take power in nineteen seventeen. And the answer is that

2364
02:10:20,440 --> 02:10:24,040
Speaker 4: when they came for Kerensky in the October Revolution, everyone

2365
02:10:24,160 --> 02:10:27,000
Speaker 4: stayed home. Everyone looked at Kerensky and was like, I'm

2366
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:28,880
Speaker 4: not dying for that dip shit, Like fuck them, Like

2367
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:32,000
Speaker 4: if there's like dueling machine gun companies in the street,

2368
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:34,600
Speaker 4: i Am not going to go die for Alexander Kerensky.

2369
02:10:35,200 --> 02:10:37,320
Speaker 4: And that's all they won because everyone stayed home. And

2370
02:10:37,360 --> 02:10:39,160
Speaker 4: that's the thing with Trump, right. The thing that's important

2371
02:10:39,160 --> 02:10:42,200
Speaker 4: about this is that the way that Trump can be

2372
02:10:42,320 --> 02:10:45,280
Speaker 4: defeated is if enough of his base just stays the

2373
02:10:45,280 --> 02:10:48,280
Speaker 4: fuck home whenever the sort of terminal crisis hits and

2374
02:10:48,360 --> 02:10:50,040
Speaker 4: every single thing we get like this, we're more and

2375
02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:51,080
Speaker 4: more of his base.

2376
02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:52,720
Speaker 3: Is like, well, I mean I.

2377
02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:55,200
Speaker 4: Could go face down a machine gun line for this guy,

2378
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:56,960
Speaker 4: but he did piss me off by Epstein, So like

2379
02:10:57,000 --> 02:10:59,360
Speaker 4: fuck that. The more that happens, the better it is

2380
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:01,680
Speaker 4: for all of us. When never the confrontations start to emerge.

2381
02:11:01,840 --> 02:11:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in general just the more so much

2382
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:08,440
Speaker 2: of the modern right is built on the Epstein stuff,

2383
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:09,880
Speaker 2: and a lot of it is a myth. Right, there's

2384
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:13,560
Speaker 2: a mythical idea that Epstein is trafficking small children and

2385
02:11:13,640 --> 02:11:17,320
Speaker 2: he's not. He was trafficking teenage girls, because that's what

2386
02:11:17,440 --> 02:11:20,680
Speaker 2: mostly rich adult men want to fuck, right, That's just

2387
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:23,320
Speaker 2: the reality of the situation.

2388
02:11:23,080 --> 02:11:26,880
Speaker 3: Including famously Donald Trump. Yeah, he has like said this before,

2389
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:29,040
Speaker 3: and you can look at the many court cases that

2390
02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:30,320
Speaker 3: have often been solved out of.

2391
02:11:30,360 --> 02:11:32,360
Speaker 2: Court alleged by him.

2392
02:11:32,440 --> 02:11:36,520
Speaker 3: And like there's this clip of the Howard Stern Show

2393
02:11:36,520 --> 02:11:38,000
Speaker 3: from the mid two thousands, which is kind of an

2394
02:11:38,040 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 3: endless source of men saying horrible things. I will include

2395
02:11:41,440 --> 02:11:44,360
Speaker 3: this clip here thing about four year olds.

2396
02:11:44,400 --> 02:11:47,280
Speaker 9: Oh, absolutely, would you do it?

2397
02:11:47,480 --> 02:11:48,480
Speaker 10: I have no problem?

2398
02:11:48,600 --> 02:11:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have any age limit?

2399
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:50,600
Speaker 8: Or would you.

2400
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:52,360
Speaker 11: No, No, I have no age. I mean I have

2401
02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:52,720
Speaker 11: an age.

2402
02:11:52,800 --> 02:11:55,760
Speaker 3: I don't want to be like you, a twelve year old?

2403
02:11:55,760 --> 02:11:58,960
Speaker 3: Can I make a prediction for you? Good lord? This

2404
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 3: is the incorrect response to this question. Yes, this question

2405
02:12:03,080 --> 02:12:06,800
Speaker 3: has a very clear like cut off point, which even

2406
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:09,800
Speaker 3: still is a little bit iffy. But this is absolutely

2407
02:12:09,840 --> 02:12:12,680
Speaker 3: the wrong answer. The answer is not twelve years old.

2408
02:12:12,760 --> 02:12:16,760
Speaker 12: This is that is Marity legally the wrong answer.

2409
02:12:17,360 --> 02:12:18,680
Speaker 2: Oh man.

2410
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:20,120
Speaker 4: You know, one of the things I think it's also

2411
02:12:20,240 --> 02:12:24,000
Speaker 4: really important about this is looking at this in the

2412
02:12:24,000 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 4: context of Trump's unbelievable number of sexual assault allegations. And

2413
02:12:29,200 --> 02:12:30,800
Speaker 4: we're going to get into that in a second, but

2414
02:12:30,880 --> 02:12:34,280
Speaker 4: first we need to ask the question, Okay, has Donald

2415
02:12:34,320 --> 02:12:38,880
Speaker 4: Trump ever intentionally looked at the naked body of an

2416
02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:43,320
Speaker 4: underage girl? And in order to figure out the answer

2417
02:12:43,360 --> 02:12:45,919
Speaker 4: to this, I am going to turn to the man himself,

2418
02:12:45,960 --> 02:12:50,400
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, talking about walking into the changing rooms of

2419
02:12:50,520 --> 02:12:54,000
Speaker 4: teen Miss USA pageants, and I quote, you know, no

2420
02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:56,200
Speaker 4: men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because

2421
02:12:56,200 --> 02:12:59,240
Speaker 4: I'm the owner of the pageant, and therefore I'm inspecting

2422
02:12:59,280 --> 02:13:00,240
Speaker 4: it is this one.

2423
02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:00,640
Speaker 3: Okay.

2424
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:03,240
Speaker 4: You know they're standing there with no clothes and you

2425
02:13:03,280 --> 02:13:05,840
Speaker 4: see these incredible looking women, and I sort of get

2426
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:08,720
Speaker 4: away with things like that. Now, that is our president

2427
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:12,760
Speaker 4: Donald J. Trump saying that he walks into changing rooms

2428
02:13:12,920 --> 02:13:15,440
Speaker 4: and looks at the bodies of naked underage girls and

2429
02:13:15,480 --> 02:13:18,120
Speaker 4: says that they are end like quotes incredible looking women.

2430
02:13:18,480 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 3: I remember when this quote was going around like maybe

2431
02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:25,080
Speaker 3: ten years ago. Yeah, and then just no, one know.

2432
02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:27,040
Speaker 12: No, it's gone into the memory hole now.

2433
02:13:26,960 --> 02:13:29,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, disappear right, Like there's so much of this shit.

2434
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:31,920
Speaker 12: Like the Access Hollywood tape, but like.

2435
02:13:32,120 --> 02:13:34,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it's actually worth like looking at this.

2436
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:37,600
Speaker 4: There's another quote from Vox where they say this is

2437
02:13:37,600 --> 02:13:40,120
Speaker 4: an incident of like Trump walking in on a changing

2438
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:42,560
Speaker 4: room like of again like naked underage girls.

2439
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:43,040
Speaker 3: Quote.

2440
02:13:43,120 --> 02:13:46,600
Speaker 4: Billottel told BuzzFeed. She mentioned the incident to Trump's daughter Avonka,

2441
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:49,040
Speaker 4: who shrugged it off, saying, quote, yeah he does that,

2442
02:13:49,320 --> 02:13:52,120
Speaker 4: so like yeah, like this is multiple people cooperating that

2443
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:54,520
Speaker 4: he just like walks into the changing rooms of naked

2444
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:58,400
Speaker 4: underage girls and like looks at their bodies. Right now,

2445
02:13:58,480 --> 02:14:01,840
Speaker 4: I will call that pedophile shit, right Like, I don't

2446
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:03,640
Speaker 4: know if he wants to sue me for one billion dollars,

2447
02:14:03,680 --> 02:14:04,560
Speaker 4: please don't but.

2448
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:07,000
Speaker 2: Like sounds like he's alleging pedophile.

2449
02:14:07,080 --> 02:14:07,280
Speaker 11: Shit.

2450
02:14:07,520 --> 02:14:09,680
Speaker 4: He's the one who said this, so, like, you know,

2451
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:13,520
Speaker 4: and it's worth noting also last year a jury did

2452
02:14:13,600 --> 02:14:17,680
Speaker 4: rule that Trump had sexually assaulted an advice columnist named

2453
02:14:17,680 --> 02:14:19,640
Speaker 4: em J. Carroll, and he had to pay her like

2454
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:23,320
Speaker 4: five million dollars. There's also again the like grab him

2455
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:25,000
Speaker 4: by the pussy thing, which is him just talking about

2456
02:14:25,000 --> 02:14:28,160
Speaker 4: sexually assaulting women, which he does constantly. He kept on

2457
02:14:28,240 --> 02:14:31,720
Speaker 4: just like walking up to like people at his pageants

2458
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:33,720
Speaker 4: and just kissing him without their consent, which is again

2459
02:14:33,800 --> 02:14:37,200
Speaker 4: sexual assault and directly tied to the Epstein case. We

2460
02:14:37,240 --> 02:14:39,960
Speaker 4: have an allegation by former model Stacy Williams, which for

2461
02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:41,840
Speaker 4: some reason, I don't know why everyone has suddenly forgotten

2462
02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:47,400
Speaker 4: about this, who alleged that she was introduced to Trump

2463
02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:51,600
Speaker 4: by Epstein, who like walked her to Trump Tower to

2464
02:14:51,760 --> 02:14:54,640
Speaker 4: meet Donald Trump, where he then sexually assaulted her like

2465
02:14:54,720 --> 02:14:55,960
Speaker 4: in front of Epstein.

2466
02:14:55,920 --> 02:14:58,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Trump Tower. This was also included in the

2467
02:14:58,840 --> 02:15:00,880
Speaker 3: list The New York Times together a few days ago

2468
02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:04,280
Speaker 3: on like Trump and Epstein's friendship quote. One of the

2469
02:15:04,320 --> 02:15:06,920
Speaker 3: young women who later said, mister Epstein greendon abus he

2470
02:15:07,080 --> 02:15:09,040
Speaker 3: was recruited into his world while working as a spot

2471
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:11,440
Speaker 3: and an at mar A Lago. Another accuser recalled being

2472
02:15:11,480 --> 02:15:13,840
Speaker 3: eyed by Trump during a brief encounter in mister Epstein's

2473
02:15:13,840 --> 02:15:17,520
Speaker 3: office and claimed that mister Epstein told Trump at the time, quote,

2474
02:15:17,600 --> 02:15:19,000
Speaker 3: she's not for you.

2475
02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:22,960
Speaker 4: So like he just like says this shit, right, And

2476
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:24,280
Speaker 4: I think this is, you know, part of the problem

2477
02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:25,920
Speaker 4: that we've been sort of getting it here, right, which

2478
02:15:25,920 --> 02:15:29,520
Speaker 4: is that like the conservative mythos about Epstein is that

2479
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:32,400
Speaker 4: it's like four year olds, right, and it's like, no,

2480
02:15:32,680 --> 02:15:37,960
Speaker 4: Epstein was doing the shit that Donald Trump talks about doing, right,

2481
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:40,840
Speaker 4: But because it's like attached to Epstein, right, Like Trump

2482
02:15:40,920 --> 02:15:42,600
Speaker 4: doesn't want to admit that he's been doing this, even

2483
02:15:42,600 --> 02:15:43,880
Speaker 4: though he's been admitting that he's been doing this for

2484
02:15:43,880 --> 02:15:47,600
Speaker 4: decades and decades and decades. It's harder for the conservatives

2485
02:15:47,600 --> 02:15:49,400
Speaker 4: to deal with this because like all of these people

2486
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:51,760
Speaker 4: think the child marriage should be legal and that creeping

2487
02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:53,920
Speaker 4: on like fifteen year olds isn't pedophilia.

2488
02:15:54,200 --> 02:15:55,880
Speaker 12: It's not hard for them to deal with this because

2489
02:15:55,880 --> 02:15:57,440
Speaker 12: they don't have a fucking problem with it.

2490
02:15:57,520 --> 02:16:00,680
Speaker 3: Like Matt Wallash's talking about how like venteen year olds

2491
02:16:00,720 --> 02:16:04,080
Speaker 3: are the most fertile. So yeah, this is very common

2492
02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:06,200
Speaker 3: among certain aspects of like this like evangelical.

2493
02:16:06,240 --> 02:16:09,040
Speaker 2: Again, it's a major thing on the right to fight

2494
02:16:09,200 --> 02:16:11,680
Speaker 2: for it to be legal to marry fourteen year old girls,

2495
02:16:11,960 --> 02:16:13,920
Speaker 2: you know, as all as their parents say yes.

2496
02:16:14,280 --> 02:16:16,160
Speaker 4: And you could look at this from a conspiracy productive

2497
02:16:16,160 --> 02:16:18,600
Speaker 4: and be like, okay, like is there a ruling cabal

2498
02:16:19,320 --> 02:16:21,760
Speaker 4: of pedophiles I control the United States? And it's like, well, yeah,

2499
02:16:21,800 --> 02:16:26,080
Speaker 4: it's the Baptists and like the systematic cover up of

2500
02:16:26,120 --> 02:16:28,880
Speaker 4: this shit by the Catholic Church, right, it's Epstein. Yeah,

2501
02:16:28,880 --> 02:16:32,040
Speaker 4: But it's also like Trump admitting that he's like again

2502
02:16:32,400 --> 02:16:35,400
Speaker 4: perving on like doing pedophiles shit, but like walking in

2503
02:16:35,440 --> 02:16:37,720
Speaker 4: on these changing rooms of these fucking girls. He's just

2504
02:16:37,760 --> 02:16:39,680
Speaker 4: like admitting this on TV, right.

2505
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:42,240
Speaker 3: And I think like the current thing that Trump's trying

2506
02:16:42,280 --> 02:16:45,360
Speaker 3: to do is make this Epstein thing another one of

2507
02:16:45,400 --> 02:16:48,480
Speaker 3: the many lines of attack against him throughout the years.

2508
02:16:48,480 --> 02:16:50,680
Speaker 3: And he's done a really good job at deflecting some

2509
02:16:50,760 --> 02:16:53,600
Speaker 3: things that have some actual like serious data on had

2510
02:16:53,600 --> 02:16:56,520
Speaker 3: some serious investigations, and like there was aspects of like

2511
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:59,400
Speaker 3: Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. It may not

2512
02:16:59,520 --> 02:17:02,640
Speaker 3: have changed the outcome of the election in a substantial manner.

2513
02:17:02,879 --> 02:17:06,240
Speaker 3: But this is something that the FBI like legitimately investigated

2514
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:10,720
Speaker 3: and had like real findings of, and he was able

2515
02:17:10,760 --> 02:17:15,400
Speaker 3: to just completely like rewrite what that investigation was into

2516
02:17:15,440 --> 02:17:19,080
Speaker 3: this like completely like astroturfed and like orchestrated hoax. And

2517
02:17:19,080 --> 02:17:20,480
Speaker 3: now it's like one of the main things that he

2518
02:17:20,520 --> 02:17:23,560
Speaker 3: talks about. And whenever there's new things that people bring

2519
02:17:23,640 --> 02:17:26,160
Speaker 3: up about why Trump is bad, he just compares it

2520
02:17:26,200 --> 02:17:28,440
Speaker 3: to the Russia hoax. Everything's just just like the Russia hoax.

2521
02:17:28,480 --> 02:17:32,240
Speaker 3: This is just another Democrat hoax against me. And this

2522
02:17:32,320 --> 02:17:35,080
Speaker 3: has been such an effective way for him to diffuse

2523
02:17:35,400 --> 02:17:37,960
Speaker 3: so many lines of attack against him. It's by just

2524
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:40,959
Speaker 3: repeating long enough and often enough that it's just a

2525
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:44,360
Speaker 3: baseless hoax. And he can do this anytime, and he'll

2526
02:17:44,400 --> 02:17:47,160
Speaker 3: replace like, oh, you know, this is a hoax, but

2527
02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:49,600
Speaker 3: you know when Hunter Biden does stuff, that's the real

2528
02:17:49,640 --> 02:17:52,240
Speaker 3: thing that the Democrats then try to cover up Hunter's laptop.

2529
02:17:52,400 --> 02:17:55,480
Speaker 3: They talk about Hunter's laptop so many times, something that

2530
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:57,680
Speaker 3: does not matter. But like, this is the trend that

2531
02:17:57,720 --> 02:18:01,160
Speaker 3: he's been able to do. And eventually journalism get tired

2532
02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:03,480
Speaker 3: of having to repeat the same thing over and over again,

2533
02:18:03,520 --> 02:18:06,720
Speaker 3: explaining that these things are not baseless hoaxes but are

2534
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:12,560
Speaker 3: legitimate investigations, legitimate concerns, and people just get tired of it.

2535
02:18:12,600 --> 02:18:14,920
Speaker 3: And he's able to like warp reality around things that

2536
02:18:14,959 --> 02:18:17,480
Speaker 3: he says. And this is the thing he's currently trying

2537
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:19,160
Speaker 3: to do with Epstein. This is why he's calling it

2538
02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:21,960
Speaker 3: the Epstein hoax, using the same rhetoric that he used

2539
02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:26,320
Speaker 3: around all of the Russia stuff around the twenty twenty election,

2540
02:18:26,520 --> 02:18:30,200
Speaker 3: around Hunter Biden's laptop, and it's going to tire people out.

2541
02:18:30,240 --> 02:18:32,360
Speaker 3: And you can already kind of feel some of this

2542
02:18:32,760 --> 02:18:35,760
Speaker 3: like iteration of it losing some steam. And like I

2543
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:38,960
Speaker 3: thought the Wall Street Journal piece would like invigorate people's

2544
02:18:38,959 --> 02:18:44,600
Speaker 3: discussion of like Trump's, you know, alleged pedophilia, and I

2545
02:18:44,760 --> 02:18:47,200
Speaker 3: think it's I don't know, at least in like observing

2546
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:50,040
Speaker 3: the online ecosystem, immediate ecosystem the last few days. I

2547
02:18:50,040 --> 02:18:53,280
Speaker 3: don't know if Trump's strategy is working, but it is

2548
02:18:53,640 --> 02:18:55,760
Speaker 3: growing stagnant and that's just kind of the pace of

2549
02:18:55,800 --> 02:18:59,039
Speaker 3: the Internet sometimes. But if he's able to keep doing

2550
02:18:59,200 --> 02:19:01,640
Speaker 3: what he's currently I'm not sure if this stuff's going

2551
02:19:01,720 --> 02:19:04,000
Speaker 3: to really matter in two months beyond, you know, whatever

2552
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:07,679
Speaker 3: comes out in discovery for the like Murdoch lawsuit.

2553
02:19:09,680 --> 02:19:13,279
Speaker 12: We should maybe explain who Murdoch is. Just it's Murdoch

2554
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:14,680
Speaker 12: Murdoch is.

2555
02:19:14,920 --> 02:19:16,440
Speaker 3: He's a leftist revolutionary.

2556
02:19:17,640 --> 02:19:20,600
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's going to say, member of the Communist Party.

2557
02:19:21,360 --> 02:19:25,880
Speaker 12: Murdoch is an Australian tabloid magnate who owns the tabloid

2558
02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:28,320
Speaker 12: press more or less at some point in time. He

2559
02:19:28,360 --> 02:19:31,080
Speaker 12: has probably owned most of the tabloid press in the

2560
02:19:31,120 --> 02:19:33,200
Speaker 12: English language almost all around the world.

2561
02:19:33,320 --> 02:19:33,480
Speaker 8: Right.

2562
02:19:33,920 --> 02:19:36,680
Speaker 12: He owns The Sun in the UK, also The Times

2563
02:19:36,840 --> 02:19:40,480
Speaker 12: in Australia. He owns the Daily Sun and Deai Telegraph.

2564
02:19:40,560 --> 02:19:42,960
Speaker 12: In the US he owns a Wall Street Journal and

2565
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:47,080
Speaker 12: the New York Post. He also owns Sky News, which

2566
02:19:47,480 --> 02:19:51,160
Speaker 12: broadcast like in the UK, he owns Fox News. He

2567
02:19:51,240 --> 02:19:53,520
Speaker 12: used to own people in the UK, remember the News

2568
02:19:53,560 --> 02:19:56,760
Speaker 12: of the World. He owns a massive amount of the

2569
02:19:56,760 --> 02:20:00,080
Speaker 12: tabloid and I guess the broadsheet press now. But he

2570
02:20:00,160 --> 02:20:03,120
Speaker 12: has historically been very right wing right. It's fair to

2571
02:20:03,160 --> 02:20:08,680
Speaker 12: say that Murdock outlets have boosted Trump enormously in his

2572
02:20:09,360 --> 02:20:12,520
Speaker 12: assent to office. However, now it appears they have fallen

2573
02:20:12,560 --> 02:20:14,720
Speaker 12: out and like that is significant. I think it is

2574
02:20:14,760 --> 02:20:17,600
Speaker 12: significant that this guy who has played a huge role

2575
02:20:17,760 --> 02:20:20,840
Speaker 12: in Trump's like, we don't have the sort of liberal

2576
02:20:20,879 --> 02:20:23,680
Speaker 12: Walter Cronkite anymore, right, Like the person who can change

2577
02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:25,520
Speaker 12: their mind on something and take the nation with them

2578
02:20:25,520 --> 02:20:28,560
Speaker 12: in the way that Kronkite had a role in doing

2579
02:20:28,640 --> 02:20:32,879
Speaker 12: at least in the Vietnam War. The boomer and gen

2580
02:20:33,080 --> 02:20:35,520
Speaker 12: x conservative people still have that in Fox News, right,

2581
02:20:35,560 --> 02:20:38,920
Speaker 12: Like Fox News can because it's like the constant background

2582
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:41,680
Speaker 12: noise in people's lives in so much of this country.

2583
02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:44,400
Speaker 12: It can take people with it. And the fact that

2584
02:20:44,520 --> 02:20:47,520
Speaker 12: Trump has gone after Murdoch, I think that is potentially

2585
02:20:48,280 --> 02:20:50,920
Speaker 12: if they're falling out continues, that is potentially the most

2586
02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:52,560
Speaker 12: damaging part of this for him.

2587
02:20:53,200 --> 02:20:55,480
Speaker 4: I want to read a quote. I think I've talked

2588
02:20:55,520 --> 02:20:58,720
Speaker 4: about this on the show before, but Murdoch's role in

2589
02:20:58,760 --> 02:21:01,280
Speaker 4: doing the sort of reality shape stuff for Trump until

2590
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:04,119
Speaker 4: now and Garrison what we were talking about about how

2591
02:21:04,120 --> 02:21:06,039
Speaker 4: Trump is able to sort of create his own reality.

2592
02:21:06,680 --> 02:21:10,680
Speaker 4: I want to read this quote from the Bush administration

2593
02:21:10,920 --> 02:21:14,000
Speaker 4: that's very famous, which is like the reality based community quote.

2594
02:21:14,760 --> 02:21:18,280
Speaker 4: Because the neo cons were trying to do the same thing, right,

2595
02:21:18,320 --> 02:21:21,440
Speaker 4: There's a very famous quote from the Bush administration which

2596
02:21:21,480 --> 02:21:25,360
Speaker 4: is attributed to a journalist named Ron Suttzkind. And he's

2597
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:29,160
Speaker 4: doing an interview with like a Bush administration aid, and

2598
02:21:29,400 --> 02:21:31,560
Speaker 4: I'm just going to quote fromit. The aid said that

2599
02:21:31,600 --> 02:21:33,920
Speaker 4: guys like me were quote in what we call the

2600
02:21:33,920 --> 02:21:36,800
Speaker 4: reality based community, which he defined as people who quote

2601
02:21:36,840 --> 02:21:40,879
Speaker 4: believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.

2602
02:21:41,879 --> 02:21:44,920
Speaker 4: That's not the way the world really works anymore, he continued.

2603
02:21:45,320 --> 02:21:48,360
Speaker 4: We're an empire now, and when we act, we create

2604
02:21:48,400 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 4: our own reality. And while you're studying reality judiciously, as

2605
02:21:52,879 --> 02:21:56,520
Speaker 4: you will will act again, creating other new realities which

2606
02:21:56,520 --> 02:21:59,400
Speaker 4: you can study too, And that's how things will sort out.

2607
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:02,560
Speaker 4: Tree's actors and you, all of you will just be

2608
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:05,880
Speaker 4: left to study what we do. And that's you know,

2609
02:22:05,920 --> 02:22:07,640
Speaker 4: a lot of what trump Ism is too, right, which

2610
02:22:07,680 --> 02:22:08,960
Speaker 4: is like, yeah, I know all of you people are

2611
02:22:08,959 --> 02:22:10,959
Speaker 4: trying to like describe reality. I'm just simply going to

2612
02:22:11,080 --> 02:22:13,720
Speaker 4: change it by saying shit right and doing shit.

2613
02:22:14,200 --> 02:22:15,800
Speaker 3: And like all he has to do is like diffuse

2614
02:22:16,200 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 3: the possible damage that this Epstein thing can do to

2615
02:22:19,920 --> 02:22:21,920
Speaker 3: his base, Like he does not care about the other

2616
02:22:21,959 --> 02:22:23,880
Speaker 3: half of the country at all. He knows that they

2617
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,400
Speaker 3: hate him, that does not matter. All he has to

2618
02:22:26,400 --> 02:22:28,720
Speaker 3: do is create enough of a doubt in the mind

2619
02:22:28,760 --> 02:22:32,200
Speaker 3: of the base that this thing isn't real. There's no

2620
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:34,640
Speaker 3: proof that this Wall Street Journal story is real. This

2621
02:22:34,760 --> 02:22:38,280
Speaker 3: is all a hoax. The Epstein files were written by Obama,

2622
02:22:38,760 --> 02:22:41,920
Speaker 3: even though the second Epstein investigation was kicked off when

2623
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:44,760
Speaker 3: he was president in twenty nineteen. But all these files

2624
02:22:44,760 --> 02:22:45,280
Speaker 3: were written by.

2625
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:47,520
Speaker 12: My own garrison. I think it's bold of you to

2626
02:22:47,520 --> 02:22:50,280
Speaker 12: say that Trump was president in twenty nineteen. That's very

2627
02:22:50,400 --> 02:22:51,080
Speaker 12: much up for.

2628
02:22:51,080 --> 02:22:54,920
Speaker 3: Different controversial claim now about who was president in twenty nineteen.

2629
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:57,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, certainly, like who is president in twenty twenty is

2630
02:22:57,959 --> 02:22:59,920
Speaker 12: something that the country now disagrees about.

2631
02:23:00,200 --> 02:23:01,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. The thing I want to say about this, though,

2632
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:03,840
Speaker 4: right is, the neocons believe they could do this. Right,

2633
02:23:03,879 --> 02:23:05,840
Speaker 4: the neocons believe they had seized the range of empire

2634
02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:07,959
Speaker 4: and they could forever shape reality to their will, and

2635
02:23:08,040 --> 02:23:11,080
Speaker 4: they couldn't this quote from two thousand and four, Right,

2636
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:13,520
Speaker 4: the neocons tried to do this, and they invaded a

2637
02:23:13,600 --> 02:23:16,840
Speaker 4: rock and they thought they could just fucking will like empire,

2638
02:23:17,160 --> 02:23:19,600
Speaker 4: like we create reality they thought they could just turn

2639
02:23:19,640 --> 02:23:22,800
Speaker 4: a rock into their own personal playground, and it destroyed them.

2640
02:23:22,840 --> 02:23:24,039
Speaker 4: Like where are the neocons now?

2641
02:23:24,480 --> 02:23:24,640
Speaker 3: Right?

2642
02:23:24,720 --> 02:23:26,480
Speaker 4: Like some of them are obviously the Trump administration, but

2643
02:23:26,560 --> 02:23:28,600
Speaker 4: like this is not a neocons.

2644
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:29,840
Speaker 2: Some of them are now in the anti Trump or

2645
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:30,280
Speaker 2: side of this.

2646
02:23:30,360 --> 02:23:32,360
Speaker 12: Yeah yeah, right, yeah, many of them are in the

2647
02:23:32,400 --> 02:23:33,160
Speaker 12: Lincoln project.

2648
02:23:33,160 --> 02:23:35,640
Speaker 4: The thing is right, the neocons are, like they don't

2649
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:37,160
Speaker 4: they do not rule the empire anymore.

2650
02:23:37,240 --> 02:23:37,959
Speaker 3: Right, that's Trump.

2651
02:23:38,000 --> 02:23:41,680
Speaker 4: These people they ran into a piece of reality that

2652
02:23:41,720 --> 02:23:44,400
Speaker 4: they tried to devour and consume and replace.

2653
02:23:44,040 --> 02:23:46,879
Speaker 3: And it destroyed them. And I don't know if this

2654
02:23:46,959 --> 02:23:48,080
Speaker 3: is that for Trump, but.

2655
02:23:48,280 --> 02:23:50,560
Speaker 2: I yeah, I don't know. I'm not that optimistic.

2656
02:23:50,680 --> 02:23:53,200
Speaker 4: But like the last time that someone tried to do

2657
02:23:53,240 --> 02:23:56,560
Speaker 4: this using the American state, they eventually hit a thing

2658
02:23:56,600 --> 02:24:00,440
Speaker 4: they couldn't swallow and it completely annihilated them. And that's

2659
02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:03,600
Speaker 4: the goal with us, right, Like we have to like

2660
02:24:04,360 --> 02:24:06,840
Speaker 4: find the thing where enough of the coalition is peeled

2661
02:24:06,840 --> 02:24:08,960
Speaker 4: off and where it just completely blows up in their

2662
02:24:09,000 --> 02:24:12,640
Speaker 4: fucking face. And hopefully it's not like the Iraq War

2663
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:17,680
Speaker 4: three or something, but this ability to warp reality purely

2664
02:24:17,720 --> 02:24:21,080
Speaker 4: by like thought and speech and action of empire like

2665
02:24:21,360 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 4: has its limits, and we've seen them be destroyed before.

2666
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:27,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, it took a lot of people dying into the

2667
02:24:27,160 --> 02:24:27,720
Speaker 12: first time.

2668
02:24:28,040 --> 02:24:31,360
Speaker 4: That's what it was horrible, Right, It's not easy to

2669
02:24:31,360 --> 02:24:34,520
Speaker 4: stop these people. But you know, like, where the fuck

2670
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:35,640
Speaker 4: is George Bush right now?

2671
02:24:35,840 --> 02:24:38,000
Speaker 12: Yeah he's doing a painting, Yeah.

2672
02:24:37,920 --> 02:24:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, on his foreign painting. But he's not running the

2673
02:24:40,040 --> 02:24:40,680
Speaker 4: fucking country.

2674
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:41,480
Speaker 11: Not far.

2675
02:24:41,680 --> 02:24:43,800
Speaker 2: He's like ten miles away from where I used to live.

2676
02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:47,280
Speaker 12: It down, God, he's at a rubbit's house.

2677
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:50,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know what else we got to say

2678
02:24:50,080 --> 02:24:52,199
Speaker 2: about our old friend Jepstein.

2679
02:24:53,400 --> 02:24:54,840
Speaker 4: I guess the one last thing that I have to

2680
02:24:54,840 --> 02:24:57,520
Speaker 4: say is I actually do think that, Like, look, if

2681
02:24:57,560 --> 02:24:59,080
Speaker 4: the thing that you've decided to do is you want

2682
02:24:59,080 --> 02:25:02,920
Speaker 4: to wage information warfare, like just continuing to spread this

2683
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:05,280
Speaker 4: shit and like seating it in random right wing things

2684
02:25:05,360 --> 02:25:07,080
Speaker 4: is probably a fun thing to do with your time.

2685
02:25:07,400 --> 02:25:09,560
Speaker 3: It could work. Who knows it can't hurt?

2686
02:25:09,720 --> 02:25:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it could, but probably won't. What really

2687
02:25:12,560 --> 02:25:15,360
Speaker 2: could hurt? Right now? Given where we are, this.

2688
02:25:15,480 --> 02:25:19,000
Speaker 12: Is like the biggest chink in the maga ama that

2689
02:25:19,040 --> 02:25:21,720
Speaker 12: we've seen. Like he's lost more people over this than

2690
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:25,520
Speaker 12: tearing families apart. We've masked and identified men with guns.

2691
02:25:25,560 --> 02:25:28,680
Speaker 12: People are fine with that, James, unfortunate. Lots of them

2692
02:25:28,680 --> 02:25:29,080
Speaker 12: think it's.

2693
02:25:29,000 --> 02:25:30,240
Speaker 3: Cool, but someone them don't.

2694
02:25:30,280 --> 02:25:33,560
Speaker 4: And that's going to be our interview tomorrow or maybe yesterday.

2695
02:25:34,280 --> 02:25:37,360
Speaker 3: The whole country is governed by QAnon logic. Now, this

2696
02:25:37,520 --> 02:25:41,360
Speaker 3: is the only thing that truly gets Americans upset anymore.

2697
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:45,320
Speaker 3: As like an entire political block. Yeah, this is it.

2698
02:25:45,360 --> 02:25:50,240
Speaker 3: Like QAnon as a cohesive conspiracy doesn't really exist anymore,

2699
02:25:50,320 --> 02:25:54,760
Speaker 3: but its logic has perforated every aspect of America, Democrats

2700
02:25:54,840 --> 02:25:59,760
Speaker 3: and Republicans included. Now, and that's the real people that's

2701
02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:04,600
Speaker 3: like survived survived the past ten years of politics. Is

2702
02:26:04,959 --> 02:26:06,400
Speaker 3: like the logic of QAnon.

2703
02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:07,959
Speaker 2: It's the only thing that matters.

2704
02:26:08,760 --> 02:26:10,160
Speaker 3: It cannot be killed anymore.

2705
02:26:11,000 --> 02:26:13,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well this has been It could happen here

2706
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:17,600
Speaker 2: until next time. You know, may every day be another

2707
02:26:17,640 --> 02:26:19,000
Speaker 2: beautiful secret.

2708
02:26:19,760 --> 02:26:50,000
Speaker 3: Gold this is it could happen here. Executive Disorder our

2709
02:26:50,040 --> 02:26:52,640
Speaker 3: weekly newscast covering what is happening in the White House,

2710
02:26:52,720 --> 02:26:55,240
Speaker 3: the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm

2711
02:26:55,280 --> 02:26:58,520
Speaker 3: Garson Davis. Today I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout,

2712
02:26:58,560 --> 02:27:02,360
Speaker 3: and Sophie Lichtermann. This episode, we are covering the week

2713
02:27:02,400 --> 02:27:06,480
Speaker 3: of July sixteenth to July twenty three. It has been

2714
02:27:06,760 --> 02:27:10,400
Speaker 3: six months since Trump has took office. How do we

2715
02:27:10,440 --> 02:27:11,880
Speaker 3: feel about that, folks?

2716
02:27:12,360 --> 02:27:15,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, there can't be three and a half were years.

2717
02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:18,880
Speaker 4: It's like there just can't, like there will not be

2718
02:27:18,920 --> 02:27:19,880
Speaker 4: a country left.

2719
02:27:20,080 --> 02:27:24,039
Speaker 15: Yeah, six months feels like a lifetime and not like

2720
02:27:24,120 --> 02:27:25,920
Speaker 15: it feels like no time has passed at all.

2721
02:27:26,360 --> 02:27:30,520
Speaker 12: So yeah, sixpence of us doing this? She's wild? Was

2722
02:27:30,560 --> 02:27:34,520
Speaker 12: that forty two months left? Am I correctly auditioning? I

2723
02:27:34,560 --> 02:27:36,680
Speaker 12: don't do mar heye is six months?

2724
02:27:37,200 --> 02:27:39,920
Speaker 3: Welcome to Math cast with doctor James Stout.

2725
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:44,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, a doctor of modern European history. So it does

2726
02:27:44,280 --> 02:27:45,879
Speaker 12: not involve arithmetic.

2727
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:50,760
Speaker 3: Oh man, let's go straight to Epstein, which is also

2728
02:27:50,760 --> 02:27:53,520
Speaker 3: what Hillary Clinton's Black Ops Kills squad said after they

2729
02:27:53,560 --> 02:27:54,400
Speaker 3: broke into the jail.

2730
02:27:54,760 --> 02:27:58,920
Speaker 4: Wow, garrets, you are spreading disinformation. That is the one

2731
02:27:58,959 --> 02:28:01,720
Speaker 4: group of people we can and confirmed. Did I feel,

2732
02:28:01,800 --> 02:28:02,760
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein?

2733
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:07,040
Speaker 15: Harrison, just because Robert's not here, does it mean you

2734
02:28:07,120 --> 02:28:10,040
Speaker 15: have to go down to his level of humor?

2735
02:28:11,040 --> 02:28:14,000
Speaker 3: I think yesterday or two days ago, we released Epstein

2736
02:28:14,560 --> 02:28:18,560
Speaker 3: Update episode where we discussed the first Wall Street Journal

2737
02:28:18,600 --> 02:28:22,600
Speaker 3: story where they released this type written note given to

2738
02:28:22,600 --> 02:28:25,440
Speaker 3: Epstein on his fiftieth birthday from Trump, where he wrote

2739
02:28:25,520 --> 02:28:30,680
Speaker 3: this fake dialogue conversation between him and Epstein saying, among

2740
02:28:30,720 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 3: other things, we have certain things in common Jeffrey, Yes,

2741
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:37,680
Speaker 3: we do. Come to think of it, Enigma's never age.

2742
02:28:37,760 --> 02:28:39,920
Speaker 3: Have you noticed that? As a matter of fact, it

2743
02:28:39,959 --> 02:28:42,400
Speaker 3: was clear to me last time I saw you, a

2744
02:28:42,480 --> 02:28:45,600
Speaker 3: pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may every

2745
02:28:45,680 --> 02:28:51,039
Speaker 3: day be another wonderful secret quote, which is who you

2746
02:28:51,080 --> 02:28:53,440
Speaker 3: could have just wrote like a pedophile confession note and

2747
02:28:53,480 --> 02:28:56,600
Speaker 3: it would be less incriminating than whatever creepy shit you're

2748
02:28:56,640 --> 02:28:58,760
Speaker 3: doing with this. So if you want to listen to

2749
02:28:58,840 --> 02:29:02,400
Speaker 3: our full update episode on that, just pop over to

2750
02:29:02,440 --> 02:29:05,440
Speaker 3: the other episode after Executive Disorder is done. We do

2751
02:29:05,520 --> 02:29:08,520
Speaker 3: have some other updates to add on because the Epstein

2752
02:29:08,560 --> 02:29:11,080
Speaker 3: thing keeps being in the news despite the will of

2753
02:29:11,200 --> 02:29:14,800
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, who definitely wants this not in the news.

2754
02:29:14,800 --> 02:29:19,240
Speaker 3: In fact, he is trying out a number of distraction techniques,

2755
02:29:19,280 --> 02:29:21,480
Speaker 3: including releasing some files related to the death of Martin

2756
02:29:21,560 --> 02:29:25,120
Speaker 3: Luther King, which when everyone's asking to release the files,

2757
02:29:25,160 --> 02:29:26,760
Speaker 3: that's not the files they were talking about.

2758
02:29:26,760 --> 02:29:29,360
Speaker 1: Also, the family did not want that to happen.

2759
02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:32,960
Speaker 3: It's very disrespectful and has stated that for a while.

2760
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:35,360
Speaker 3: This is a very cheap way to run some distraction.

2761
02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:38,800
Speaker 3: Last week, Pambondi sent a request to release the grand

2762
02:29:38,879 --> 02:29:42,400
Speaker 3: jury files on the Epstein investigation, and this was just

2763
02:29:42,440 --> 02:29:45,080
Speaker 3: a way to perform transparency because these types of files

2764
02:29:45,120 --> 02:29:47,920
Speaker 3: usually do not get released, like this was most likely

2765
02:29:47,959 --> 02:29:50,600
Speaker 3: going to get blocked by the judge. And they knew

2766
02:29:50,600 --> 02:29:52,320
Speaker 3: that when they sent this request. This was just to

2767
02:29:52,360 --> 02:29:56,760
Speaker 3: perform this like gesture of transparency, knowing that it wouldn't

2768
02:29:56,760 --> 02:29:59,640
Speaker 3: actually lead to anything. And all of this stuff goes

2769
02:29:59,640 --> 02:30:02,480
Speaker 3: against what Trump was saying, like a year ago. A

2770
02:30:02,560 --> 02:30:05,240
Speaker 3: year ago on Fox News, Trump said that he would

2771
02:30:05,360 --> 02:30:08,240
Speaker 3: release the files and then although he did kind of

2772
02:30:08,240 --> 02:30:10,400
Speaker 3: catch himself and realized that that might not be in

2773
02:30:10,400 --> 02:30:12,840
Speaker 3: his best interest because he kind of corrected and said

2774
02:30:12,840 --> 02:30:14,480
Speaker 3: that he would have to make sure there's not phony

2775
02:30:14,520 --> 02:30:16,080
Speaker 3: stuff in there. Let's play the clip.

2776
02:30:16,840 --> 02:30:19,440
Speaker 6: Would you declassify the nine to eleven files?

2777
02:30:19,520 --> 02:30:20,080
Speaker 11: Yeah?

2778
02:30:20,120 --> 02:30:22,279
Speaker 4: Would you declassified JFK files.

2779
02:30:22,080 --> 02:30:24,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, which I did. I did a lot of it.

2780
02:30:24,240 --> 02:30:27,600
Speaker 14: Would you declassify the Epstein files, Yeah?

2781
02:30:27,680 --> 02:30:29,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, I would I guess I would.

2782
02:30:29,920 --> 02:30:32,320
Speaker 16: I think that less so because you know, you don't

2783
02:30:32,360 --> 02:30:34,520
Speaker 16: know if you don't want to affect people's lives of

2784
02:30:34,560 --> 02:30:36,280
Speaker 16: its phony stuff in there, because there's a lot of

2785
02:30:36,320 --> 02:30:38,279
Speaker 16: phony stuff with that whole world.

2786
02:30:39,640 --> 02:30:40,560
Speaker 11: But I think I would.

2787
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:41,920
Speaker 1: What does that fucking mean?

2788
02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:45,760
Speaker 3: That whole world? Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things

2789
02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:49,840
Speaker 3: in there. Notably, when Fox first aired this, they only

2790
02:30:49,879 --> 02:30:52,800
Speaker 3: played the first half of his answer where he said, yeah,

2791
02:30:52,879 --> 02:30:56,360
Speaker 3: I would, and did not air the part where we said, well,

2792
02:30:56,720 --> 02:30:59,840
Speaker 3: actually maybe not, because there's a lot of phony stuff

2793
02:30:59,840 --> 02:31:00,360
Speaker 3: in there.

2794
02:31:01,120 --> 02:31:02,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's interesting.

2795
02:31:02,360 --> 02:31:06,120
Speaker 3: Eventually the full clip went online, but at first they

2796
02:31:06,160 --> 02:31:08,959
Speaker 3: released this shorter clip to make Trump look better, which

2797
02:31:09,160 --> 02:31:12,320
Speaker 3: there's a lot of similarity to Trump's lawsuit against sixty

2798
02:31:12,360 --> 02:31:15,000
Speaker 3: Minutes in Paramount, when they released two different clips of

2799
02:31:15,040 --> 02:31:17,600
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris answering a question in like the same week

2800
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:20,000
Speaker 3: on two different shows, answering the same question like two

2801
02:31:20,000 --> 02:31:22,440
Speaker 3: halves of the answer. Trump said that this was done

2802
02:31:22,520 --> 02:31:25,440
Speaker 3: explicitly to change the outcome of the election and sued

2803
02:31:25,480 --> 02:31:29,039
Speaker 3: sixty Minutes for this and because Paramount, the parent company

2804
02:31:29,320 --> 02:31:31,840
Speaker 3: of CBS News, is trying to complete a merger with

2805
02:31:31,879 --> 02:31:34,680
Speaker 3: sky Dance, which needs to be approved by the Trump administration.

2806
02:31:35,240 --> 02:31:38,400
Speaker 3: Paramount had started interfering with the affairs of sixty minutes,

2807
02:31:38,440 --> 02:31:42,360
Speaker 3: had just canceled the Colbert A Late show, possibly in

2808
02:31:42,400 --> 02:31:46,040
Speaker 3: efforts to appease Trump, and just gave him this massive

2809
02:31:46,120 --> 02:31:48,000
Speaker 3: bribe as a way to get out of the lawsuit.

2810
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:52,040
Speaker 3: So very similar situation where news companies are playing two

2811
02:31:52,120 --> 02:31:55,280
Speaker 3: different things from the same answer. I think the one

2812
02:31:55,360 --> 02:31:58,640
Speaker 3: that happened on Fox News is way more egregious than

2813
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:00,360
Speaker 3: the one sixty Minutes did. I think this, even if

2814
02:32:00,400 --> 02:32:04,760
Speaker 3: it's one, makes sense. But that's just a whole tiny aside.

2815
02:32:05,520 --> 02:32:08,120
Speaker 3: Releasing Epstein files is something that Trump has still been

2816
02:32:08,280 --> 02:32:11,920
Speaker 3: talking about. Last week, on Wednesday, July sixteenth, in an

2817
02:32:11,920 --> 02:32:14,520
Speaker 3: Oval Office press conference, he was asked if you would

2818
02:32:14,520 --> 02:32:17,119
Speaker 3: get Pambondi to try to release more documents. He answered

2819
02:32:17,120 --> 02:32:20,840
Speaker 3: like this, will you ask a trade general Pambondi to

2820
02:32:20,879 --> 02:32:23,840
Speaker 3: release more documents to finally put this controversy to that, you.

2821
02:32:23,879 --> 02:32:25,680
Speaker 11: Know, whatever is credible she can release.

2822
02:32:25,760 --> 02:32:29,160
Speaker 16: If a document is credible, of the documents there that

2823
02:32:29,640 --> 02:32:31,520
Speaker 16: is credible, she can release.

2824
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:32,480
Speaker 11: I think it's I.

2825
02:32:32,360 --> 02:32:36,519
Speaker 16: Think it's good, but it's just really it's just a subject.

2826
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:42,240
Speaker 16: He's dead, he's gone, and all it is is the Republicans.

2827
02:32:42,280 --> 02:32:45,480
Speaker 16: Certain Republicans got duped by the Democrats and then following

2828
02:32:45,480 --> 02:32:47,560
Speaker 16: a Democrat playbooker.

2829
02:32:48,080 --> 02:32:50,760
Speaker 3: So after this, Pambondi sent a request to a judge

2830
02:32:50,879 --> 02:32:56,039
Speaker 3: to unseal the Epstein Maxwell grand jury transcripts, and again

2831
02:32:56,080 --> 02:32:59,959
Speaker 3: this is the move to feign transparency. Attorney Sarah Crissoff,

2832
02:33:00,400 --> 02:33:03,640
Speaker 3: assistant us A jtorney in Manhattan two s eight, twenty

2833
02:33:03,800 --> 02:33:06,000
Speaker 3: twenty one, told the AP that this move was a

2834
02:33:06,080 --> 02:33:09,080
Speaker 3: quote unquote distraction. Quote the president is trying to present

2835
02:33:09,160 --> 02:33:11,840
Speaker 3: himself as if he's doing something here and really it's

2836
02:33:11,879 --> 02:33:15,600
Speaker 3: nothing unquote. She estimates that these transcripts could be as

2837
02:33:15,600 --> 02:33:18,680
Speaker 3: little as sixty pages anyway, because it is standard practice

2838
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:20,520
Speaker 3: for the Southern District of New York to put very

2839
02:33:20,560 --> 02:33:24,720
Speaker 3: little information in these transcripts compared to some other states.

2840
02:33:24,959 --> 02:33:29,040
Speaker 3: And as expected earlier this week, the judge denied this request,

2841
02:33:29,120 --> 02:33:30,920
Speaker 3: which the Trump admin knew was going to happen, because

2842
02:33:30,920 --> 02:33:33,960
Speaker 3: they don't release grand jury transcripts. The whole point of

2843
02:33:33,959 --> 02:33:36,400
Speaker 3: a grand jury is that it's secret that she did this. Yeah,

2844
02:33:36,440 --> 02:33:38,000
Speaker 3: so this was never gonna happen.

2845
02:33:38,120 --> 02:33:39,880
Speaker 1: I fear that's commonsense.

2846
02:33:40,879 --> 02:33:42,640
Speaker 3: But this was the move to make it look like

2847
02:33:42,720 --> 02:33:46,480
Speaker 3: they were having some level of transparency. Another tactic Trump

2848
02:33:46,480 --> 02:33:49,000
Speaker 3: has done to distract from the Epstein story is directing

2849
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:53,000
Speaker 3: in Tulsa Gabbard to run this huge distraction campaign by

2850
02:33:53,040 --> 02:33:58,560
Speaker 3: talking about the Obama treeson investigation. Jesus Christ, Yeah, I'll

2851
02:33:59,000 --> 02:33:59,959
Speaker 3: play a clip here.

2852
02:34:01,040 --> 02:34:04,879
Speaker 17: There is irrefutable evidence that detail how President Obama and

2853
02:34:04,920 --> 02:34:08,960
Speaker 17: his national security team directed the creation of an intelligence

2854
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:12,480
Speaker 17: community assessment that they knew was false.

2855
02:34:13,240 --> 02:34:14,279
Speaker 3: They knew it would.

2856
02:34:14,120 --> 02:34:17,600
Speaker 17: Promote this contrived narrative that Russia interfered in the twenty

2857
02:34:17,640 --> 02:34:21,080
Speaker 17: sixteen election to help President Trump win, selling it to

2858
02:34:21,120 --> 02:34:24,440
Speaker 17: the American people as though it were true.

2859
02:34:24,640 --> 02:34:25,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't.

2860
02:34:25,280 --> 02:34:27,959
Speaker 17: The report that we released today shows in great detail

2861
02:34:28,520 --> 02:34:33,240
Speaker 17: how they carried this out. They manufactured findings from shoddy sources,

2862
02:34:33,600 --> 02:34:39,120
Speaker 17: They suppressed evidence and credible intelligence that disproved their false claims.

2863
02:34:39,720 --> 02:34:45,480
Speaker 17: They disobeyed traditional trade craft intelligence community standards, and withheld

2864
02:34:45,520 --> 02:34:47,240
Speaker 17: the truth from the American people.

2865
02:34:48,400 --> 02:34:49,760
Speaker 3: Very serious stuff.

2866
02:34:50,080 --> 02:34:52,360
Speaker 1: Just looks like a villain from the Orville.

2867
02:34:53,879 --> 02:34:57,519
Speaker 3: What they're talking about is, yeah, there was legitimate investigations

2868
02:34:57,520 --> 02:35:00,600
Speaker 3: into Russia's meddling in the twenty sixteen election. What they

2869
02:35:00,640 --> 02:35:03,680
Speaker 3: were unable to prove is conclusive evidence that Trump colluded

2870
02:35:03,720 --> 02:35:07,080
Speaker 3: with the Russians. But this meddling was real and was proven.

2871
02:35:07,160 --> 02:35:09,720
Speaker 3: This is stuff that they've found and Obama was president

2872
02:35:09,800 --> 02:35:13,800
Speaker 3: at the time, and yeah, he's gonna know about the investigation.

2873
02:35:14,240 --> 02:35:17,000
Speaker 3: So they're trying to turn that into this whole giant,

2874
02:35:17,520 --> 02:35:22,040
Speaker 3: giant hoax regarding Obama trying to steal the twenty sixteen election, again,

2875
02:35:22,080 --> 02:35:26,040
Speaker 3: an election that everyone knows Trump won. Trump was president

2876
02:35:26,360 --> 02:35:30,520
Speaker 3: from twenty seventeen to early twenty twenty one, something that

2877
02:35:30,720 --> 02:35:34,120
Speaker 3: some people have tried to forget, and they're trying to

2878
02:35:34,200 --> 02:35:37,520
Speaker 3: run like all of these distractions just to keep people

2879
02:35:37,560 --> 02:35:39,879
Speaker 3: from talking about Epstein. And this is something that Trump's

2880
02:35:39,879 --> 02:35:42,600
Speaker 3: really good at. All he needs to do is keep

2881
02:35:42,720 --> 02:35:44,880
Speaker 3: his base from turning on him, and the way he's

2882
02:35:44,879 --> 02:35:47,360
Speaker 3: going to do that is make them angry at other people.

2883
02:35:48,000 --> 02:35:51,000
Speaker 3: He has to find new targets to make his base

2884
02:35:51,120 --> 02:35:53,720
Speaker 3: upset at, and right now he's trying it out with Obama.

2885
02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:55,560
Speaker 3: Right He's done that with Biden for years, He's done

2886
02:35:55,560 --> 02:35:58,480
Speaker 3: that with Clinton for years. Obama is the new guy

2887
02:35:58,560 --> 02:36:01,280
Speaker 3: that he hasn't really targeted as much. So now he's

2888
02:36:01,280 --> 02:36:03,760
Speaker 3: trying to get his supporters really mad at Obama, and

2889
02:36:03,879 --> 02:36:05,720
Speaker 3: that is the whole way that he's trying to hold

2890
02:36:05,760 --> 02:36:07,879
Speaker 3: onto their support and hold onto their power. Because, yeah,

2891
02:36:08,000 --> 02:36:09,760
Speaker 3: some of the Epstein stuff may be a little bit weird,

2892
02:36:09,920 --> 02:36:12,199
Speaker 3: but did you see how Obama tried to steal the election?

2893
02:36:12,600 --> 02:36:14,600
Speaker 3: And this is his whole strategy. And he laid the

2894
02:36:14,640 --> 02:36:16,800
Speaker 3: strategy out at a press conference earlier this week where

2895
02:36:17,000 --> 02:36:21,360
Speaker 3: he's seen like coaching Republicans to respond to questions about

2896
02:36:21,400 --> 02:36:25,199
Speaker 3: Epstein by just talking about Obama and the Russian election

2897
02:36:25,320 --> 02:36:28,440
Speaker 3: interference investigation, the quote unquote Russia hopes.

2898
02:36:29,440 --> 02:36:34,600
Speaker 18: But remember this, Obama cheated on the election, and we

2899
02:36:34,720 --> 02:36:39,000
Speaker 18: have it called hard blue, and it's getting even more

2900
02:36:39,040 --> 02:36:41,959
Speaker 18: so because the stuff that's coming in is not even believable.

2901
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:45,280
Speaker 18: So and you should mention that every time they give

2902
02:36:45,320 --> 02:36:49,560
Speaker 18: you a question that's not appropriate, just say, oh, by

2903
02:36:49,560 --> 02:36:51,320
Speaker 18: the way, Obama cheated on the election.

2904
02:36:51,480 --> 02:36:53,920
Speaker 11: You'll watch the camera turn off instantly.

2905
02:36:54,760 --> 02:36:57,360
Speaker 3: And this is the strategy he uses. Whenever he's asked

2906
02:36:57,360 --> 02:37:00,000
Speaker 3: about something, He'll talk about the Russia, Russia, Russia hope,

2907
02:37:00,160 --> 02:37:03,920
Speaker 3: the Hunter Biden laptop, things that aren't even real, things

2908
02:37:03,920 --> 02:37:07,760
Speaker 3: that he's like successfully syoped the country into believing are

2909
02:37:07,800 --> 02:37:10,920
Speaker 3: like real things. But whenever he's asked a question about Epstein,

2910
02:37:11,040 --> 02:37:13,279
Speaker 3: you can immediately pivot to that and have that control

2911
02:37:13,360 --> 02:37:15,920
Speaker 3: the conversation. And he's laying out the strategy here. This

2912
02:37:16,000 --> 02:37:17,600
Speaker 3: is what I was talking about last week in d

2913
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:20,879
Speaker 3: about how Trump like dictates reality through speech, and he's

2914
02:37:20,879 --> 02:37:24,680
Speaker 3: trying to coach his fellow Republicans on how to do it.

2915
02:37:25,120 --> 02:37:27,120
Speaker 3: And they have to catch up on a lot of

2916
02:37:27,120 --> 02:37:29,920
Speaker 3: stuff because Trump's ties to Epstein have been known for

2917
02:37:29,959 --> 02:37:34,040
Speaker 3: a long long time. I'm going to play a very

2918
02:37:34,360 --> 02:37:37,880
Speaker 3: very gross clip from around the turn of the millennia

2919
02:37:38,080 --> 02:37:41,039
Speaker 3: talking about dating eighteen models.

2920
02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:43,240
Speaker 2: What did you do last night? For fun?

2921
02:37:43,560 --> 02:37:45,840
Speaker 16: I actually went to the Fashion Award show.

2922
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:48,800
Speaker 2: Models working on.

2923
02:37:51,040 --> 02:37:51,680
Speaker 8: Big Donald.

2924
02:37:51,680 --> 02:37:53,960
Speaker 17: Do you worry because you have a daughter who's a model?

2925
02:37:54,160 --> 02:37:55,800
Speaker 16: I do, and I have a deal with her. She's

2926
02:37:55,959 --> 02:37:59,800
Speaker 16: just seventeen and she's doing great Ivanka, and she made

2927
02:37:59,840 --> 02:38:02,199
Speaker 16: me promised her swear to her that I would never

2928
02:38:02,480 --> 02:38:03,879
Speaker 16: dat a girl younger than her.

2929
02:38:05,000 --> 02:38:07,560
Speaker 8: So why did you grow with Howard?

2930
02:38:07,560 --> 02:38:08,640
Speaker 15: And she grows older?

2931
02:38:08,800 --> 02:38:09,039
Speaker 8: Right?

2932
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:12,440
Speaker 3: The field is getting very limited for Dearly now that

2933
02:38:12,520 --> 02:38:15,560
Speaker 3: she's seventeen, His dating a field is getting very limited.

2934
02:38:16,080 --> 02:38:18,879
Speaker 3: I wonder what he could mean by that. Oh, I

2935
02:38:18,920 --> 02:38:21,160
Speaker 3: wonder what that could be, insinuating.

2936
02:38:22,240 --> 02:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Really fucking girls.

2937
02:38:23,680 --> 02:38:24,040
Speaker 11: Man.

2938
02:38:24,440 --> 02:38:27,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, this shit is actually deeply fucking still, like, yeah,

2939
02:38:27,840 --> 02:38:28,520
Speaker 12: it's hideous.

2940
02:38:28,560 --> 02:38:31,440
Speaker 4: And also like the fact that the Democrats didn't spend

2941
02:38:31,440 --> 02:38:34,360
Speaker 4: the entire election just calling him a pedophile and running

2942
02:38:34,360 --> 02:38:36,240
Speaker 4: ads that were just this man as a pedophile.

2943
02:38:36,920 --> 02:38:39,400
Speaker 3: Like, this is stuff we've known for a long time.

2944
02:38:40,080 --> 02:38:45,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, she's like in the public domain decades and decades.

2945
02:38:45,560 --> 02:38:47,680
Speaker 3: This is from a Guardian article in twenty twenty. At

2946
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:50,039
Speaker 3: forty three years old, Donald Trump asked a seventeen year

2947
02:38:50,040 --> 02:38:52,120
Speaker 3: old girl on a date. Trump asked her out for

2948
02:38:52,160 --> 02:38:54,520
Speaker 3: dinner in the summer of nineteen eighty nine at an

2949
02:38:54,640 --> 02:38:58,000
Speaker 3: industry soiree. She recalls Trump asking how old she was.

2950
02:38:58,440 --> 02:39:01,760
Speaker 3: Quote I said seventeen, and he said, that's just great.

2951
02:39:01,879 --> 02:39:06,720
Speaker 3: You're not too old, not too young unquote legally speaking,

2952
02:39:07,080 --> 02:39:11,800
Speaker 3: too young. Outrageous, outrageous stuff. And we have some breaking

2953
02:39:11,920 --> 02:39:14,240
Speaker 3: news from just a few hours ago. We're recording this.

2954
02:39:14,240 --> 02:39:18,040
Speaker 3: On Wednesday, a second Wall Street Journal article has hit

2955
02:39:18,080 --> 02:39:23,800
Speaker 3: the Trump Towers. A new article talking about the Justice

2956
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:28,160
Speaker 3: Department officials reviewing Attorney General Pam Bondi's quote unquote truckload

2957
02:39:28,280 --> 02:39:32,680
Speaker 3: of Jeffrey Epstein documents and discovering that Donald Trump's name

2958
02:39:32,720 --> 02:39:39,720
Speaker 3: appears multiple times, according to senior Administration officials. Bondy notified

2959
02:39:39,720 --> 02:39:42,440
Speaker 3: Trump about this in May, saying that a few other

2960
02:39:42,520 --> 02:39:46,560
Speaker 3: high profile names are also in the documents and that

2961
02:39:46,560 --> 02:39:49,320
Speaker 3: the DOJ would not be releasing these documents in order

2962
02:39:49,320 --> 02:39:53,400
Speaker 3: to quote unquote protect victims. As if you can't censor victims'

2963
02:39:53,440 --> 02:39:56,560
Speaker 3: names or censored hold sexual abast material, this is just

2964
02:39:56,680 --> 02:39:57,760
Speaker 3: a complete cover up.

2965
02:39:58,320 --> 02:39:58,520
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2966
02:39:58,560 --> 02:40:00,600
Speaker 4: Oh and by the way, in late break news, that's

2967
02:40:00,600 --> 02:40:04,600
Speaker 4: sure to make everyone considerably more normal. Epstein's defense lawyer,

2968
02:40:04,680 --> 02:40:07,000
Speaker 4: Roy Black, who's the guy who got him off from

2969
02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:08,920
Speaker 4: like going to prison for a billion years in two

2970
02:40:08,920 --> 02:40:10,520
Speaker 4: thousand and seven, just.

2971
02:40:10,480 --> 02:40:15,400
Speaker 3: Died like today, So okay, sure, Hillary Clinton kills squad.

2972
02:40:15,440 --> 02:40:19,240
Speaker 4: It's really really working working over time this point, Like

2973
02:40:19,560 --> 02:40:23,920
Speaker 4: Donald Trump kills squad questionable. Absolutely absolutely need to be

2974
02:40:23,959 --> 02:40:26,640
Speaker 4: retiring the Hillary Clinton kills squad jokes, because like, I

2975
02:40:26,680 --> 02:40:29,879
Speaker 4: think it's very likely that Epstein did kill himself. I

2976
02:40:29,920 --> 02:40:31,840
Speaker 4: do not think you need to believe in that sort

2977
02:40:31,840 --> 02:40:36,080
Speaker 4: of like conspiratorial thinking to also believe that there's documented

2978
02:40:36,120 --> 02:40:39,680
Speaker 4: evidence of Trump dating teenagers and wanting to date teenagers

2979
02:40:40,040 --> 02:40:43,280
Speaker 4: for the past like forty years, and that's something that

2980
02:40:43,520 --> 02:40:45,600
Speaker 4: everyone should be aware of.

2981
02:40:45,959 --> 02:40:48,440
Speaker 3: Like, that's not a conspiracy theory, and you don't need

2982
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:53,000
Speaker 3: to believe in conspiratorial thinking to think that that's very likely.

2983
02:40:53,720 --> 02:40:56,039
Speaker 4: That said, I do want to establish there is at

2984
02:40:56,120 --> 02:40:58,240
Speaker 4: least one person on the podcast who thinks that he

2985
02:40:58,320 --> 02:41:02,199
Speaker 4: might not have I don't know, but every single time

2986
02:41:02,280 --> 02:41:06,720
Speaker 4: they do more weird shit about it, I'm like, maybe

2987
02:41:06,920 --> 02:41:08,680
Speaker 4: is this conspiracy brain thinking yes?

2988
02:41:08,840 --> 02:41:10,840
Speaker 12: But I mean, editing the video, did it make any

2989
02:41:10,879 --> 02:41:13,280
Speaker 12: one more certain that he killed himself?

2990
02:41:14,120 --> 02:41:17,680
Speaker 3: So as we enter the more than six month marker

2991
02:41:17,720 --> 02:41:20,240
Speaker 3: in the Trump administration, I think we should check in

2992
02:41:20,280 --> 02:41:24,200
Speaker 3: on how they youths feel about Donald Trump. Famously, there's

2993
02:41:24,200 --> 02:41:25,959
Speaker 3: a lot of reporting about how gen Z is, like,

2994
02:41:26,000 --> 02:41:28,879
Speaker 3: you know, swinging more conservative, how gen Z helped get

2995
02:41:28,920 --> 02:41:33,760
Speaker 3: Trump elected, and if you look at some February approval numbers,

2996
02:41:34,080 --> 02:41:37,160
Speaker 3: it does seem that between ages of eighteen and twenty nine.

2997
02:41:37,320 --> 02:41:40,440
Speaker 12: So too old. Using the aforementioned criteria.

2998
02:41:40,800 --> 02:41:43,400
Speaker 3: Trump did have a plus ten points approval, with fifty

2999
02:41:43,400 --> 02:41:47,720
Speaker 3: five percent approving only forty five percent disapproving of his performance. Now,

3000
02:41:47,760 --> 02:41:51,920
Speaker 3: come July things have changed dramatically in the youth bracket

3001
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:55,359
Speaker 3: eighteen to twenty nine, with only twenty eight percent approval.

3002
02:41:55,400 --> 02:42:00,000
Speaker 3: It's a negative forty four points and seventy two percent disapproval,

3003
02:42:00,040 --> 02:42:03,880
Speaker 3: which is a net fifty four point negative swing. That's

3004
02:42:04,000 --> 02:42:06,200
Speaker 3: genuinely astonishing, Like.

3005
02:42:07,920 --> 02:42:10,439
Speaker 12: That's a huge jump. But it's not a jump, Garrison,

3006
02:42:10,879 --> 02:42:13,720
Speaker 12: it's a fall. That's you're right, You're right, it is

3007
02:42:13,760 --> 02:42:16,000
Speaker 12: going down. Yeah, Yeah, it's a plummet.

3008
02:42:16,200 --> 02:42:19,039
Speaker 3: This is according to CBS Newsballs again, and I do

3009
02:42:19,080 --> 02:42:20,720
Speaker 3: think me is right. I don't know if Trump's going

3010
02:42:20,760 --> 02:42:23,080
Speaker 3: to care about this very much because this does seem

3011
02:42:23,120 --> 02:42:26,760
Speaker 3: to be higher than his preferred dating bracket, So I

3012
02:42:26,800 --> 02:42:29,360
Speaker 3: don't think he's looking for the approval of people between

3013
02:42:29,400 --> 02:42:33,199
Speaker 3: eighteen to twenty nine, but this still might affect him culturally,

3014
02:42:33,240 --> 02:42:33,840
Speaker 3: I guess.

3015
02:42:34,160 --> 02:42:34,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3016
02:42:34,920 --> 02:42:38,680
Speaker 12: Talking of things that have gone down badly, Garrison, it's

3017
02:42:38,760 --> 02:42:41,320
Speaker 12: now our obligation to pivot to advertisements.

3018
02:42:41,720 --> 02:42:58,280
Speaker 3: Advertisements are doing just fine from what I hear, and

3019
02:42:58,440 --> 02:43:02,560
Speaker 3: we are back. Let's do an immigration segment for the

3020
02:43:02,560 --> 02:43:05,000
Speaker 3: middle of the show, and I guess I'll first start

3021
02:43:05,040 --> 02:43:08,959
Speaker 3: with ice watch. So the past few weeks, I've seen

3022
02:43:09,000 --> 02:43:12,520
Speaker 3: multiple videos of ice pulling over cars and sometimes not

3023
02:43:12,520 --> 02:43:15,760
Speaker 3: even like pulling over, just like blocking cars and narrow streets,

3024
02:43:15,800 --> 02:43:20,480
Speaker 3: like stopping them forcefully and then drawing guns as they

3025
02:43:20,480 --> 02:43:22,200
Speaker 3: get out of the car, like by the time they

3026
02:43:22,200 --> 02:43:25,440
Speaker 3: are like door open, feed on the ground, gun already drawn.

3027
02:43:26,240 --> 02:43:30,320
Speaker 3: And they then descend on activists doing ICE watch, basically

3028
02:43:30,320 --> 02:43:33,760
Speaker 3: people who follow ICE agents around to alert their community

3029
02:43:33,760 --> 02:43:36,760
Speaker 3: of where ICE currently is. Usually they're live streaming and

3030
02:43:37,280 --> 02:43:39,800
Speaker 3: this in particular video that I have sent to the

3031
02:43:39,840 --> 02:43:42,600
Speaker 3: team here very freaky. I think we should just watch

3032
02:43:42,640 --> 02:43:42,920
Speaker 3: it here.

3033
02:43:43,080 --> 02:43:45,160
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, definitely, and we can try and describe it

3034
02:43:45,160 --> 02:43:56,240
Speaker 12: a little bit for listeners.

3035
02:43:50,160 --> 02:43:50,280
Speaker 8: Right.

3036
02:43:57,680 --> 02:43:59,840
Speaker 14: If you know how I am, then why the fuck

3037
02:44:00,600 --> 02:44:02,600
Speaker 14: are you telling me to open the window, and why

3038
02:44:02,640 --> 02:44:05,160
Speaker 14: the hell are you pointing a gun a fucking taser

3039
02:44:05,200 --> 02:44:05,360
Speaker 14: on me?

3040
02:44:05,400 --> 02:44:10,240
Speaker 6: If you know who I am? Okay, And you guys

3041
02:44:10,240 --> 02:44:12,199
Speaker 6: follow everyone everyone.

3042
02:44:13,280 --> 02:44:14,920
Speaker 19: You guys stalk people all the fucking time.

3043
02:44:16,240 --> 02:44:20,039
Speaker 3: A very large man wearing a mask, a hoodie and

3044
02:44:20,080 --> 02:44:23,400
Speaker 3: a baseball cap, no obviously identification, not in a police uniform,

3045
02:44:23,680 --> 02:44:26,240
Speaker 3: not in like a order patrol uniform. It's just a

3046
02:44:26,280 --> 02:44:30,320
Speaker 3: guy who basically forces your car to stop and jumps

3047
02:44:30,320 --> 02:44:31,440
Speaker 3: out and points a gun at you.

3048
02:44:31,600 --> 02:44:34,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, he draws from Appendix Carrie, like, it's not in

3049
02:44:34,240 --> 02:44:37,560
Speaker 12: many states, this would be justification to start shooting at

3050
02:44:37,560 --> 02:44:37,879
Speaker 12: this man.

3051
02:44:37,959 --> 02:44:38,160
Speaker 18: Yeah.

3052
02:44:38,400 --> 02:44:41,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's I think reasons why they're not doing this

3053
02:44:41,760 --> 02:44:44,400
Speaker 3: in states through there's high levels of gun ownership because

3054
02:44:44,720 --> 02:44:48,800
Speaker 3: they're afraid of that happening. Because it's not clear at

3055
02:44:48,840 --> 02:44:51,200
Speaker 3: all as guy's a cop. No, it's a masked man

3056
02:44:51,280 --> 02:44:53,720
Speaker 3: has forced your car to a halt and is pulling

3057
02:44:53,720 --> 02:44:55,120
Speaker 3: a gun on you and is approaching you.

3058
02:44:55,200 --> 02:44:55,400
Speaker 11: Yeah.

3059
02:44:55,480 --> 02:44:57,680
Speaker 12: I mean that happens in another country and you assume

3060
02:44:57,680 --> 02:45:00,720
Speaker 12: you're being roped, like right, another part of the world.

3061
02:45:00,920 --> 02:45:04,240
Speaker 12: Like Also, it's notable that the vehicle doesn't have lights.

3062
02:45:04,080 --> 02:45:05,160
Speaker 3: It's not a cop car.

3063
02:45:05,440 --> 02:45:08,960
Speaker 12: No, it's not even a US made car like sometimes

3064
02:45:09,080 --> 02:45:12,040
Speaker 12: cops will use like non marked cars, but they're normally

3065
02:45:12,160 --> 02:45:15,360
Speaker 12: US manufactured right for or US companies for Chevy, etc.

3066
02:45:15,760 --> 02:45:19,080
Speaker 12: This is a Kia. Everything apart from a lanyard hanging

3067
02:45:19,080 --> 02:45:21,920
Speaker 12: around the guy's neck which is not identifiable. It's a badge.

3068
02:45:22,120 --> 02:45:24,160
Speaker 12: Certainly not at this speed. Certainly not while he's drawing

3069
02:45:24,200 --> 02:45:27,680
Speaker 12: a gun. From appendix carry points to this being someone

3070
02:45:27,680 --> 02:45:28,400
Speaker 12: trying to rub.

3071
02:45:28,280 --> 02:45:28,680
Speaker 9: Or kill you.

3072
02:45:29,360 --> 02:45:29,959
Speaker 3: Very scary.

3073
02:45:30,280 --> 02:45:32,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I will say, I think the fact that they're

3074
02:45:32,440 --> 02:45:35,360
Speaker 4: being forced to do this in some sense is a

3075
02:45:35,400 --> 02:45:36,560
Speaker 4: sign that this is really working.

3076
02:45:36,680 --> 02:45:38,520
Speaker 3: It's pissing them off. The fact that people are keeping

3077
02:45:38,560 --> 02:45:40,600
Speaker 3: tabs on where I see it. Yeah, yeah, it's working.

3078
02:45:40,800 --> 02:45:43,320
Speaker 3: And like I keep saying, this is like they're the

3079
02:45:43,360 --> 02:45:45,800
Speaker 3: ones who are being forced to operate, is if they're

3080
02:45:45,800 --> 02:45:48,080
Speaker 3: working in a police state, Like they're the ones who

3081
02:45:48,080 --> 02:45:49,800
Speaker 3: are having to deal with surveillance. They're the ones who

3082
02:45:49,840 --> 02:45:51,640
Speaker 3: are having to deal with the fact that like if

3083
02:45:51,640 --> 02:45:53,520
Speaker 3: they stay in a place too long, they'll be beast

3084
02:45:53,520 --> 02:45:56,359
Speaker 3: mobilizations and people will just like drop the hammer on them.

3085
02:45:56,640 --> 02:45:59,640
Speaker 4: It's a really interesting look at what happens when you

3086
02:45:59,720 --> 02:46:01,879
Speaker 4: try to do this police state shit in a society

3087
02:46:01,920 --> 02:46:04,720
Speaker 4: where everyone fucking hates you, which is that all you

3088
02:46:04,800 --> 02:46:07,920
Speaker 4: really have is speed and terror totally. And so you

3089
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:09,720
Speaker 4: know they're doing this shit right, like they're just trying

3090
02:46:09,720 --> 02:46:12,680
Speaker 4: to terrorize people into letting them do their police state stuff.

3091
02:46:12,720 --> 02:46:15,640
Speaker 4: But if people keep doing it right, it seriously is

3092
02:46:15,680 --> 02:46:17,120
Speaker 4: like denting their effectiveness a lot.

3093
02:46:17,440 --> 02:46:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen multiple videos like this. Eventually the ICE

3094
02:46:20,640 --> 02:46:23,400
Speaker 3: agents will call over some like state trooper or like

3095
02:46:23,440 --> 02:46:26,240
Speaker 3: a DHS guy who does not work or ICE directly

3096
02:46:26,320 --> 02:46:29,280
Speaker 3: to diffuse this situation. I've seen most of these situations

3097
02:46:29,320 --> 02:46:32,920
Speaker 3: get eventually diffused, but it's something to I think draw

3098
02:46:32,959 --> 02:46:33,720
Speaker 3: attention to right now.

3099
02:46:33,800 --> 02:46:36,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, if this keeps happening, it's likely to

3100
02:46:36,920 --> 02:46:39,640
Speaker 12: end in violence somewhere, right, I mean.

3101
02:46:39,480 --> 02:46:41,760
Speaker 3: This is the same thing when they're kidnapping college students

3102
02:46:41,800 --> 02:46:43,160
Speaker 3: without any clear identification.

3103
02:46:43,520 --> 02:46:44,160
Speaker 12: Yeah.

3104
02:46:43,800 --> 02:46:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, notably doing that in like New England states where

3105
02:46:47,160 --> 02:46:50,120
Speaker 3: people do not conceal carry firearms like regularly, as like

3106
02:46:50,120 --> 02:46:51,879
Speaker 3: a regular thing that like people do.

3107
02:46:52,280 --> 02:46:54,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, firelarms are not the only means of

3108
02:46:54,240 --> 02:46:57,199
Speaker 12: violence available to people like that. Lady seem very calm

3109
02:46:57,240 --> 02:46:59,480
Speaker 12: and commendably so, but like she could a step on

3110
02:46:59,480 --> 02:47:00,680
Speaker 12: the gas pedal car and.

3111
02:47:00,840 --> 02:47:05,000
Speaker 3: Totally absolutely right. Yeah, And obviously this person knows that

3112
02:47:05,440 --> 02:47:07,600
Speaker 3: the guy is ICED, because that's why she's following him.

3113
02:47:08,000 --> 02:47:11,200
Speaker 3: But if ICE just starts getting paranoid about cars behind them,

3114
02:47:11,240 --> 02:47:13,760
Speaker 3: if they think someone's following them, they can pull us

3115
02:47:13,760 --> 02:47:14,800
Speaker 3: on someone who's not doing ICE.

3116
02:47:14,840 --> 02:47:15,080
Speaker 8: Watch.

3117
02:47:15,160 --> 02:47:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they could just pull us on anyone who they

3118
02:47:17,120 --> 02:47:20,360
Speaker 3: are like suspicious of, And I think that's when really

3119
02:47:20,440 --> 02:47:24,040
Speaker 3: dangerous situations could start breaking out between these like unmarked

3120
02:47:24,080 --> 02:47:27,039
Speaker 3: ICE agents and just regular citizens.

3121
02:47:26,720 --> 02:47:28,400
Speaker 4: And I think the odds of one of them just

3122
02:47:29,000 --> 02:47:35,280
Speaker 4: snapping and starting shooting is like not zero, because that's

3123
02:47:35,280 --> 02:47:38,519
Speaker 4: who these people are, and as they're increasingly put under stress.

3124
02:47:38,240 --> 02:47:41,760
Speaker 3: They're being trained to always be afraid of danger, like

3125
02:47:41,800 --> 02:47:44,080
Speaker 3: more so than even just like regular like cop stuff.

3126
02:47:44,560 --> 02:47:47,160
Speaker 3: Like they're talking about how like violence against ICE is

3127
02:47:47,240 --> 02:47:50,279
Speaker 3: up eight hundred percent, where the violence is like someone's

3128
02:47:50,360 --> 02:47:53,520
Speaker 3: head meets an ICE agent's fist, right, It's that sort

3129
02:47:53,520 --> 02:47:55,960
Speaker 3: of violence where it's like you're assaulting a cop by

3130
02:47:56,080 --> 02:47:59,880
Speaker 3: like partially resisting arrest in some way. But they are

3131
02:48:00,040 --> 02:48:02,400
Speaker 3: running those stats as if this is a real epidemic

3132
02:48:02,400 --> 02:48:06,120
Speaker 3: of violence against ICE agents right now. Another story I

3133
02:48:06,200 --> 02:48:09,200
Speaker 3: like to talk about is this deportation hoax story that

3134
02:48:09,240 --> 02:48:12,480
Speaker 3: I've seen going around social media. Seen it going around

3135
02:48:12,520 --> 02:48:16,360
Speaker 3: like our slash green card on Reddit, like TikTok, and

3136
02:48:16,440 --> 02:48:20,400
Speaker 3: even of local news stories across the country where ICE

3137
02:48:20,480 --> 02:48:24,680
Speaker 3: secretly deports an eighty two year old torture survivor and

3138
02:48:24,959 --> 02:48:28,640
Speaker 3: US legal resident for forty years. This man goes to

3139
02:48:28,680 --> 02:48:31,920
Speaker 3: an immigration office to replace a green card, and instead

3140
02:48:31,959 --> 02:48:36,520
Speaker 3: of that happening, ICE handcuffs him, detains him, denies access

3141
02:48:36,520 --> 02:48:39,879
Speaker 3: to a lawyer and deports him to Guatemala, a country

3142
02:48:39,879 --> 02:48:42,879
Speaker 3: where he is not from, with no official paperwork, and

3143
02:48:42,920 --> 02:48:46,360
Speaker 3: then is put into the hospital in Guatemala. This story

3144
02:48:46,400 --> 02:48:49,560
Speaker 3: got super viral the past week, and from what we

3145
02:48:49,640 --> 02:48:51,760
Speaker 3: can tell, this is not a real story. There was

3146
02:48:51,800 --> 02:48:54,680
Speaker 3: no immigration appointment in Philadelphia at the time of this

3147
02:48:54,720 --> 02:48:56,920
Speaker 3: spiral story. Guatemala says that the man is not in

3148
02:48:57,000 --> 02:48:59,920
Speaker 3: the country. The hospital he was alleged to be at.

3149
02:49:00,240 --> 02:49:03,080
Speaker 3: Doctors have said there's no man matching this description in

3150
02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:06,800
Speaker 3: the story, and the photos attached to this viral story

3151
02:49:06,840 --> 02:49:09,520
Speaker 3: of the man are not of this guy. The photos

3152
02:49:09,520 --> 02:49:12,720
Speaker 3: are of a guy who died three years ago. This is,

3153
02:49:12,879 --> 02:49:15,440
Speaker 3: from what we can tell, an entirely fabricated story that

3154
02:49:15,480 --> 02:49:18,400
Speaker 3: one local news outlet bought and then spread around from there.

3155
02:49:19,080 --> 02:49:22,039
Speaker 3: It's not even clear if, like the family members that

3156
02:49:22,160 --> 02:49:25,240
Speaker 3: were the original source of this even exist. It's not

3157
02:49:25,280 --> 02:49:29,440
Speaker 3: clear if this man even exists. So this is, from

3158
02:49:29,440 --> 02:49:32,080
Speaker 3: what we can tell right now, not real, not real

3159
02:49:32,160 --> 02:49:35,640
Speaker 3: at all, and this is something to keep him in mind.

3160
02:49:35,840 --> 02:49:38,680
Speaker 3: Just because a story is like scary and just because

3161
02:49:38,720 --> 02:49:40,880
Speaker 3: it's going viral does not necessarily mean it's true, and

3162
02:49:41,720 --> 02:49:44,920
Speaker 3: we don't need to be sharing fake stories of ICE

3163
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:48,240
Speaker 3: deporting people or even going after Green card holders, because

3164
02:49:48,280 --> 02:49:51,600
Speaker 3: this is actually happening. This is happening in the country

3165
02:49:51,640 --> 02:49:54,480
Speaker 3: right now, and ICE is defying judicial orders.

3166
02:49:54,959 --> 02:49:58,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, So let's talk about one of those incidents, right.

3167
02:49:58,040 --> 02:50:01,360
Speaker 12: In this case, it's a man called Leonell Navaret Hernandez

3168
02:50:01,400 --> 02:50:05,039
Speaker 12: who filed a habeas suit in the Central District of

3169
02:50:05,040 --> 02:50:08,440
Speaker 12: California right against the Department of Home Lown Security. Let's

3170
02:50:08,480 --> 02:50:10,360
Speaker 12: get some background on his case first, and we can

3171
02:50:10,480 --> 02:50:13,560
Speaker 12: talk about this specific kind of not justifying court orders,

3172
02:50:13,600 --> 02:50:16,400
Speaker 12: but also the United States Constitution. So he fled to

3173
02:50:16,400 --> 02:50:18,760
Speaker 12: the United States in two thousand and nine after being

3174
02:50:18,800 --> 02:50:21,320
Speaker 12: pursued by the police and falsely accused of El Salvador

3175
02:50:21,360 --> 02:50:24,040
Speaker 12: and beaten by police several times. I'm going to quote

3176
02:50:24,080 --> 02:50:28,199
Speaker 12: from the court documents pretty extensively throughout this so quote

3177
02:50:28,480 --> 02:50:32,280
Speaker 12: including in one distance, beaten until he vomited blood, resulting

3178
02:50:32,320 --> 02:50:34,720
Speaker 12: in a cut on his head that scarred and a

3179
02:50:34,760 --> 02:50:37,600
Speaker 12: fractured finger. And quote in twenty twenty two, he was

3180
02:50:37,640 --> 02:50:40,120
Speaker 12: part of a targeted enforcement operation and he was issued

3181
02:50:40,120 --> 02:50:42,760
Speaker 12: a notice to appear and that he bonded out, right,

3182
02:50:42,840 --> 02:50:47,440
Speaker 12: So he posted like bail and he was out of detention. Right.

3183
02:50:47,720 --> 02:50:50,400
Speaker 12: In January twenty twenty four, he filed for his asylum.

3184
02:50:50,600 --> 02:50:53,560
Speaker 12: He didn't get asylum dus a timing of filing. He

3185
02:50:53,600 --> 02:50:56,640
Speaker 12: also asked for withholding of removal. I didn't get that

3186
02:50:56,760 --> 02:50:59,360
Speaker 12: because he quote failed to show that his proposed quote

3187
02:50:59,400 --> 02:51:03,120
Speaker 12: particular groups are cognizable or that his past harm was

3188
02:51:03,160 --> 02:51:04,480
Speaker 12: because of a protected ground.

3189
02:51:04,560 --> 02:51:04,680
Speaker 11: Right.

3190
02:51:04,720 --> 02:51:06,880
Speaker 12: So regular listeners will know that there are certain grounds

3191
02:51:06,920 --> 02:51:09,920
Speaker 12: on which one can obtain asylum and what has to

3192
02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:13,200
Speaker 12: be part of these certain categories to obtain asylum. What

3193
02:51:13,320 --> 02:51:16,840
Speaker 12: he did get was protection of removal under a convention

3194
02:51:16,920 --> 02:51:20,840
Speaker 12: against torture because again quoting, it is more likely than

3195
02:51:20,879 --> 02:51:24,360
Speaker 12: not that their respondent will be detained and tortured in

3196
02:51:24,440 --> 02:51:27,440
Speaker 12: El Salvador. El Salvador has put out an inter poll

3197
02:51:27,600 --> 02:51:30,160
Speaker 12: read alert for him. For some reason, they deeply wanted

3198
02:51:30,240 --> 02:51:32,200
Speaker 12: him back. Doesn't seem to be any evidence that this

3199
02:51:32,240 --> 02:51:37,080
Speaker 12: person committed crimes. Ice appealed this protection for removal right,

3200
02:51:37,320 --> 02:51:39,879
Speaker 12: and then the same day they appealed it, they detained

3201
02:51:40,000 --> 02:51:43,160
Speaker 12: him when he appeared at his intensive supervision appearance program.

3202
02:51:43,280 --> 02:51:45,360
Speaker 12: Check it, so, Ice ap rate. It's one of these

3203
02:51:45,400 --> 02:51:48,000
Speaker 12: things where instead of being detained, you appear at ice

3204
02:51:48,040 --> 02:51:50,720
Speaker 12: office and check in every now and again, as opposed

3205
02:51:50,760 --> 02:51:52,800
Speaker 12: to than just locking you up for the entire time.

3206
02:51:53,240 --> 02:51:58,160
Speaker 12: His partner then testified to that quote. Lionel called me

3207
02:51:58,400 --> 02:52:01,440
Speaker 12: and told me that he was arrested, says immigration officers

3208
02:52:01,480 --> 02:52:03,440
Speaker 12: went up to him and his IYESAP check in and

3209
02:52:03,480 --> 02:52:05,920
Speaker 12: told him he was under arrest. Lionel said he asked

3210
02:52:05,959 --> 02:52:08,160
Speaker 12: the officers why and informed them he had an order

3211
02:52:08,200 --> 02:52:12,320
Speaker 12: from the judge. The officer said something like judges don't Judges'

3212
02:52:12,400 --> 02:52:14,080
Speaker 12: orders don't matter only the president.

3213
02:52:14,320 --> 02:52:18,760
Speaker 3: Judges orders don't matter only the president. This is a

3214
02:52:18,840 --> 02:52:22,320
Speaker 3: rogue law enforcement agency in service of a rogue president.

3215
02:52:22,600 --> 02:52:22,960
Speaker 3: Like yeah.

3216
02:52:23,480 --> 02:52:25,840
Speaker 12: Leonel then told me that he told the officers he

3217
02:52:25,840 --> 02:52:27,880
Speaker 12: had an attorney. I'm still quoting from his partner here,

3218
02:52:28,160 --> 02:52:31,080
Speaker 12: but the officer said that doesn't matter either.

3219
02:52:31,920 --> 02:52:35,280
Speaker 3: He has an order forbidding his deportation, and they're telling

3220
02:52:35,360 --> 02:52:38,000
Speaker 3: him that doesn't matter because the president wants you out

3221
02:52:38,040 --> 02:52:38,600
Speaker 3: of the country.

3222
02:52:38,680 --> 02:52:41,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, exactly, And that is what they have done. Right,

3223
02:52:41,080 --> 02:52:43,960
Speaker 12: That was the entire rendition of people to l Salbadol

3224
02:52:44,040 --> 02:52:46,760
Speaker 12: was an end run around that, right, attempting to They're

3225
02:52:46,800 --> 02:52:48,600
Speaker 12: just like saying this to people, Yeah, because that's what

3226
02:52:48,600 --> 02:52:51,000
Speaker 12: they're doing. That's Warren. That's what they said to the court. Right,

3227
02:52:51,080 --> 02:52:53,520
Speaker 12: we sneaked him out before you could stop it. Yeah,

3228
02:52:53,560 --> 02:52:56,160
Speaker 12: So just to update people in his case, he called

3229
02:52:56,160 --> 02:52:58,320
Speaker 12: from jail in Santa Anna and said he was in

3230
02:52:58,320 --> 02:52:59,960
Speaker 12: a small space and he heard people being taken to

3231
02:53:00,080 --> 02:53:02,480
Speaker 12: San Diego or Texas. Then he had to hang up.

3232
02:53:02,560 --> 02:53:06,760
Speaker 12: He was moved around significantly, right all around, including into Texas.

3233
02:53:06,760 --> 02:53:09,440
Speaker 12: When he showed up on the detainee locator, the judge

3234
02:53:09,440 --> 02:53:12,280
Speaker 12: in the case issued attentive restraining order to prevent them

3235
02:53:12,440 --> 02:53:15,520
Speaker 12: from removing him. In detention, he was only allowed to

3236
02:53:15,520 --> 02:53:18,280
Speaker 12: make phone calls for three minutes, and in one of

3237
02:53:18,280 --> 02:53:20,920
Speaker 12: those calls, he told his partner that detention officers, I guess,

3238
02:53:21,280 --> 02:53:23,840
Speaker 12: were telling detainees they were going to be removed whether

3239
02:53:23,959 --> 02:53:27,320
Speaker 12: or not they signed deportation papers. In his case, the

3240
02:53:27,400 --> 02:53:31,039
Speaker 12: court has issued an injunction to prevent his removal or

3241
02:53:31,080 --> 02:53:34,160
Speaker 12: his read attention. So shout out to this Central District

3242
02:53:34,160 --> 02:53:37,280
Speaker 12: of California. I guess this is wild, right, this is

3243
02:53:37,920 --> 02:53:39,119
Speaker 12: dictatorial regime.

3244
02:53:39,120 --> 02:53:39,320
Speaker 8: Shit.

3245
02:53:39,640 --> 02:53:41,520
Speaker 12: You have no rights other than those a president decides

3246
02:53:41,520 --> 02:53:43,160
Speaker 12: to give to you. It's the subtext here.

3247
02:53:43,320 --> 02:53:47,120
Speaker 4: It's explicitly the fascist thing of like there are people

3248
02:53:47,120 --> 02:53:49,560
Speaker 4: who exist outside the legal order in order to maintain it,

3249
02:53:49,600 --> 02:53:53,400
Speaker 4: and that person is the fear. Like that, that's just

3250
02:53:53,480 --> 02:53:57,240
Speaker 4: what this is, right, Like it it's really explicit.

3251
02:53:57,320 --> 02:53:58,960
Speaker 12: I don't really know what people expect on them and

3252
02:53:59,240 --> 02:54:00,920
Speaker 12: you know, the expected dress like they're in the sound

3253
02:54:00,920 --> 02:54:03,360
Speaker 12: of music. You know, like this is what fascism looks like.

3254
02:54:04,080 --> 02:54:05,920
Speaker 12: Let's talk about some more immigration cases.

3255
02:54:06,080 --> 02:54:08,759
Speaker 3: What other immigration updates do we have, James.

3256
02:54:08,560 --> 02:54:11,160
Speaker 12: Yeah, well none of them are great, to be honest.

3257
02:54:11,400 --> 02:54:13,600
Speaker 3: No, the immigration segment has been a bit of a

3258
02:54:13,640 --> 02:54:16,120
Speaker 3: bummer in the past. Let me check my watch six months.

3259
02:54:16,480 --> 02:54:20,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's hard on the soul. A New Jersey district

3260
02:54:20,520 --> 02:54:24,600
Speaker 12: court has struck down the state's law forbidding private immigration detention.

3261
02:54:25,080 --> 02:54:27,600
Speaker 12: This also happened in California. Right, they said it was

3262
02:54:27,640 --> 02:54:30,240
Speaker 12: stay overy. So this was an issue. It's federal detention

3263
02:54:30,280 --> 02:54:32,959
Speaker 12: instead of fed to get to decide basically, right. So

3264
02:54:33,040 --> 02:54:36,760
Speaker 12: New Jersey had tried to stop Geo Group cour Civic,

3265
02:54:36,800 --> 02:54:40,440
Speaker 12: these massive detention operations from operating private immigration detention in

3266
02:54:40,480 --> 02:54:43,840
Speaker 12: the state. Couldn't get down one through the court. Probably

3267
02:54:43,879 --> 02:54:46,560
Speaker 12: the bigger story this week is that the federal government

3268
02:54:46,560 --> 02:54:49,520
Speaker 12: has signed a contract for a huge five thousand bed

3269
02:54:49,959 --> 02:54:53,080
Speaker 12: tent camp facility for migration detention of Fort Bliss. So

3270
02:54:53,160 --> 02:54:57,360
Speaker 12: according to reporting in Bloomberg, Bloomberg has reported that the

3271
02:54:57,360 --> 02:55:00,320
Speaker 12: contract totals one point twenty six billion. The only tract

3272
02:55:00,360 --> 02:55:02,560
Speaker 12: I was able to actually find was a Department of

3273
02:55:02,600 --> 02:55:06,240
Speaker 12: Defense contract for two hundred and thirty one million, eight

3274
02:55:06,320 --> 02:55:08,879
Speaker 12: hundred and seventy eight thousand, two hundred and twenty nine

3275
02:55:08,920 --> 02:55:13,640
Speaker 12: dollars to be precise. What is not being reported on this?

3276
02:55:13,720 --> 02:55:17,640
Speaker 12: And I don't understand why other than nobody reported on

3277
02:55:17,680 --> 02:55:21,720
Speaker 12: immigration during the Biden admitt Apparently people are looking for

3278
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:24,279
Speaker 12: like analogues. What will this be like? Well, the Department

3279
02:55:24,280 --> 02:55:27,200
Speaker 12: of Defense operated a tent facility at Fort Bliss under

3280
02:55:27,240 --> 02:55:31,280
Speaker 12: Operation Allies Welcome for Afghan people arriving in the United States.

3281
02:55:31,320 --> 02:55:34,320
Speaker 12: So after the bungled withdrawal from Afghanistan, right, I interviewed

3282
02:55:34,360 --> 02:55:37,080
Speaker 12: one of them. I was freelancing for the nation at

3283
02:55:37,080 --> 02:55:39,120
Speaker 12: that time, and there'll be a link in the show notes.

3284
02:55:39,600 --> 02:55:43,280
Speaker 12: But the Afghanswa Howls did a place called Donja Anna Range,

3285
02:55:43,320 --> 02:55:46,200
Speaker 12: which is in New Mexico. So Bliss spans Texas and

3286
02:55:46,280 --> 02:55:48,520
Speaker 12: New Mexico. Right, this New complex needs to be in

3287
02:55:48,520 --> 02:55:52,279
Speaker 12: a different place because it will be quote unquote soft sided,

3288
02:55:52,360 --> 02:55:55,600
Speaker 12: which just needs tents. Right, But this one is accessible

3289
02:55:55,600 --> 02:55:59,720
Speaker 12: from El Paso streets and it's accessible without entering the

3290
02:55:59,760 --> 02:56:01,680
Speaker 12: Fort Bliss main gate, right, so people don't have to

3291
02:56:01,720 --> 02:56:05,560
Speaker 12: have on base clearance. The Afghan site had ninety eight tenths,

3292
02:56:05,640 --> 02:56:08,560
Speaker 12: which each held about one hundred people. This one will

3293
02:56:08,560 --> 02:56:11,119
Speaker 12: house five thousand people, so we can assume about five

3294
02:56:11,200 --> 02:56:16,120
Speaker 12: hundred tenths. Right. This contract for one point two six billion,

3295
02:56:16,440 --> 02:56:18,360
Speaker 12: Operation Allies Welcome was larger.

3296
02:56:18,520 --> 02:56:18,640
Speaker 9: Right.

3297
02:56:18,680 --> 02:56:21,240
Speaker 12: It did other things. For instance, all those people got

3298
02:56:21,280 --> 02:56:23,440
Speaker 12: their COVID vaccinations because they hadn't gotten them when they

3299
02:56:23,440 --> 02:56:26,080
Speaker 12: were in Afghanistan. A lot of other vaccinations too. That

3300
02:56:26,080 --> 02:56:29,560
Speaker 12: that spent three billion just in fiscal year twenty twenty

3301
02:56:29,560 --> 02:56:32,520
Speaker 12: two to give people a sense of the scale of

3302
02:56:32,520 --> 02:56:34,320
Speaker 12: these things. Right, So one point two six billion, it's

3303
02:56:34,360 --> 02:56:35,959
Speaker 12: not at all out of the question, and in fact

3304
02:56:36,600 --> 02:56:38,480
Speaker 12: brings me on to my next point, which is that

3305
02:56:38,560 --> 02:56:42,320
Speaker 12: it may be a bit low, given this company has

3306
02:56:42,400 --> 02:56:44,160
Speaker 12: no experience with this kind of operation.

3307
02:56:44,360 --> 02:56:44,520
Speaker 8: Right.

3308
02:56:44,560 --> 02:56:47,040
Speaker 12: One of the questions we asked back in November when

3309
02:56:47,080 --> 02:56:50,520
Speaker 12: we did are like what could happen under Trump is

3310
02:56:50,560 --> 02:56:52,879
Speaker 12: how will they stand up these facilities. Who has the

3311
02:56:52,920 --> 02:56:56,000
Speaker 12: experience to do it well? This company does not have

3312
02:56:56,040 --> 02:56:58,400
Speaker 12: the experience to do it right. They've never done anything

3313
02:56:58,480 --> 02:57:00,920
Speaker 12: like this before. They have some logistic common practice DoD,

3314
02:57:01,560 --> 02:57:04,400
Speaker 12: but they do not have the capacity. At least they

3315
02:57:04,400 --> 02:57:06,120
Speaker 12: have not shown that they have the capacity to do

3316
02:57:06,160 --> 02:57:09,480
Speaker 12: anything on this scale. The DoD operation used a lot

3317
02:57:09,480 --> 02:57:12,959
Speaker 12: of contractors as well as defact dining facility for food.

3318
02:57:13,040 --> 02:57:14,640
Speaker 12: And I just want to quote some of the people

3319
02:57:14,800 --> 02:57:17,080
Speaker 12: I called a bull who I talked to, who was

3320
02:57:17,120 --> 02:57:20,680
Speaker 12: in that detention facility. Quote for the past month, nighttime

3321
02:57:20,720 --> 02:57:22,800
Speaker 12: was the most horrible time for us because every day

3322
02:57:22,800 --> 02:57:24,880
Speaker 12: it got colder. We didn't have enough warm clothes or

3323
02:57:24,920 --> 02:57:27,400
Speaker 12: any thick blankets to fight against the cold. They gave

3324
02:57:27,480 --> 02:57:29,360
Speaker 12: us a blanket that was so thin we could see

3325
02:57:29,400 --> 02:57:32,120
Speaker 12: through it. These are people who in some cases fought

3326
02:57:32,160 --> 02:57:35,800
Speaker 12: alongside United States soldiers right like, it's not going to

3327
02:57:35,800 --> 02:57:39,280
Speaker 12: be better for migrants. Ball also told me the food

3328
02:57:39,440 --> 02:57:41,840
Speaker 12: wasn't great. He said, quote it's not cooked enough or

3329
02:57:41,840 --> 02:57:44,520
Speaker 12: it's burned. He did say that he appreciated the quote.

3330
02:57:44,640 --> 02:57:47,199
Speaker 12: The guy doing the cooking was always asking for feedback.

3331
02:57:47,640 --> 02:57:51,280
Speaker 12: They tried to cook Afghan food, I guess, and yeah, yeah,

3332
02:57:51,280 --> 02:57:54,680
Speaker 12: he appreciated the effort to cook food that interesting. Yeah,

3333
02:57:54,760 --> 02:57:56,600
Speaker 12: I mean they ain't going to try that now this time, right,

3334
02:57:56,720 --> 02:58:01,599
Speaker 12: but not, for instance, provide halal food, which was a consideration.

3335
02:58:01,879 --> 02:58:03,400
Speaker 4: I'm assuming this time they're going to be getting the

3336
02:58:03,400 --> 02:58:05,360
Speaker 4: fucking boldy food from Florida.

3337
02:58:05,600 --> 02:58:07,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, the United States has a whole bunch

3338
02:58:07,760 --> 02:58:09,480
Speaker 12: of food should have gone out to many of the

3339
02:58:09,520 --> 02:58:11,600
Speaker 12: starving people around the world, right, but yet has been

3340
02:58:11,640 --> 02:58:13,800
Speaker 12: left to mold and warehouses. So yeah, they might be

3341
02:58:13,920 --> 02:58:18,360
Speaker 12: eating the high energy biscuits or the humrats. Talking of food,

3342
02:58:19,600 --> 02:58:23,480
Speaker 12: Human Rights Watch has reached a report detailing human rights

3343
02:58:23,480 --> 02:58:27,400
Speaker 12: abuses at detention centers. The report focuses on Chrome North

3344
02:58:27,560 --> 02:58:32,160
Speaker 12: Service Processing Center aka a Chrome, the Brower Transitional Center,

3345
02:58:32,640 --> 02:58:35,240
Speaker 12: and the Federal Detention Center. All of these are in Florida.

3346
02:58:35,360 --> 02:58:38,240
Speaker 3: Are those first two like privately owned better than being

3347
02:58:38,680 --> 02:58:40,920
Speaker 3: leased or like licensed out to the government.

3348
02:58:41,040 --> 02:58:44,520
Speaker 12: Yes, they're run by contractors for the government for immigration

3349
02:58:44,600 --> 02:58:47,680
Speaker 12: detencent We've talked about Chrome before. It was one that

3350
02:58:47,720 --> 02:58:49,880
Speaker 12: was already ever crowded, had two deaths.

3351
02:58:50,160 --> 02:58:52,200
Speaker 3: It's also the name that I would pick for like

3352
02:58:52,240 --> 02:58:56,360
Speaker 3: an evil agency who gets the private prison. Yeah, it's

3353
02:58:57,120 --> 02:58:59,080
Speaker 3: it's chrome with a K with a K too, which

3354
02:58:59,080 --> 02:58:59,920
Speaker 3: makes it more evil.

3355
02:59:00,680 --> 02:59:03,320
Speaker 12: So the incidence detailed in this report pretty pretty bad.

3356
02:59:03,440 --> 02:59:06,440
Speaker 12: They include people being forced to eat like dogs with

3357
02:59:06,480 --> 02:59:10,120
Speaker 12: a hands tied behind their back. They include people being

3358
02:59:10,160 --> 02:59:13,240
Speaker 12: punished and put in solitary confinement for seeking medical or

3359
02:59:13,320 --> 02:59:15,960
Speaker 12: mental health help and having their hands tipped. I had

3360
02:59:15,959 --> 02:59:18,520
Speaker 12: and been forced to lay down on wet floors, as

3361
02:59:18,520 --> 02:59:21,000
Speaker 12: it's very common in ice facilities. The air conditioning was

3362
02:59:21,040 --> 02:59:23,800
Speaker 12: turned up very high to make it uncomfortably cold.

3363
02:59:23,920 --> 02:59:25,480
Speaker 3: Like the Florida bomb.

3364
02:59:25,840 --> 02:59:28,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is the case in every immigration detention to

3365
02:59:28,360 --> 02:59:30,720
Speaker 12: the facility that I've heard about. Right, the Spanish word

3366
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:33,440
Speaker 12: is it translates to ice box. Is the word that

3367
02:59:33,480 --> 02:59:37,600
Speaker 12: people used to refer That's the colloquial term for these facilities. Right.

3368
02:59:38,400 --> 02:59:43,080
Speaker 12: The FDC staff also used stun grenades and physical force

3369
02:59:43,200 --> 02:59:47,200
Speaker 12: against detainees protesting denial of food, water, medical attention. The

3370
02:59:47,280 --> 02:59:50,039
Speaker 12: report details people being detained in crowdedge cells with no

3371
02:59:50,120 --> 02:59:54,160
Speaker 12: beds or bedding and denied essential medications. Really a couple

3372
02:59:54,200 --> 02:59:57,600
Speaker 12: of quotes from people interviewed in the report here quote,

3373
02:59:57,640 --> 02:59:59,680
Speaker 12: you could not fall asleep because it was so cold,

3374
03:00:00,080 --> 03:00:02,840
Speaker 12: I thought I was going to experience hypothermia. One said,

3375
03:00:03,879 --> 03:00:07,119
Speaker 12: it's like psychological abuse. You feel like your life is over,

3376
03:00:07,320 --> 03:00:07,920
Speaker 12: said another.

3377
03:00:20,800 --> 03:00:24,520
Speaker 3: All right, we're back. This past week, the World Food

3378
03:00:24,520 --> 03:00:29,240
Speaker 3: Program released a new report on food scarcity in Gaza

3379
03:00:29,800 --> 03:00:33,560
Speaker 3: enforced through the Israeli military, and also discussed a quote

3380
03:00:33,600 --> 03:00:36,160
Speaker 3: unquote deadly incident this past Sunday in which dozens of

3381
03:00:36,160 --> 03:00:40,039
Speaker 3: civilians were killed and injured while waiting to access food

3382
03:00:40,160 --> 03:00:43,840
Speaker 3: as a World Food Program convoy was entering northern Gaza.

3383
03:00:44,240 --> 03:00:47,320
Speaker 3: The Director of Emergency Preparedness and Response, Ross Smith said,

3384
03:00:47,400 --> 03:00:50,640
Speaker 3: quote yesterday's incident is one of the greatest tragedies we've

3385
03:00:50,680 --> 03:00:54,199
Speaker 3: seen for our operations in Gaza and elsewhere while we're

3386
03:00:54,200 --> 03:00:57,320
Speaker 3: trying to work, and it's completely avoidable, and it's an

3387
03:00:57,320 --> 03:01:02,160
Speaker 3: absolute tragedy. Currently, food safety experts warned that one in

3388
03:01:02,240 --> 03:01:06,640
Speaker 3: five people in Gaza face enforced starvation. I'm going to

3389
03:01:06,720 --> 03:01:09,800
Speaker 3: quote from the un here, quote, mister Smith said. World

3390
03:01:09,879 --> 03:01:12,560
Speaker 3: Food Program assessments show that a quarter of the population

3391
03:01:12,680 --> 03:01:15,600
Speaker 3: is facing famine like conditions. Almost one hundred thousand women

3392
03:01:15,600 --> 03:01:19,240
Speaker 3: and children are suffering from severe acute malnutrition and need

3393
03:01:19,280 --> 03:01:22,800
Speaker 3: treatment as soon as possible, pointing to reports. He said, quote,

3394
03:01:22,920 --> 03:01:26,000
Speaker 3: people are dying from a lack of humanitarian assistance every day,

3395
03:01:26,280 --> 03:01:29,480
Speaker 3: and we are seeing this escalate day by day, saying

3396
03:01:29,480 --> 03:01:32,400
Speaker 3: that food and humanitarian assistance are quote the only solution

3397
03:01:32,440 --> 03:01:34,600
Speaker 3: at the moment for Gaza unquote.

3398
03:01:35,720 --> 03:01:38,199
Speaker 4: And it's worth emphasizing with this that like, the food

3399
03:01:38,520 --> 03:01:41,959
Speaker 4: is there, it is literally just sitting and warehouses, like

3400
03:01:42,120 --> 03:01:44,640
Speaker 4: they can bring it in the moment the blockade lifts,

3401
03:01:44,800 --> 03:01:46,160
Speaker 4: but the Israelis don't.

3402
03:01:45,920 --> 03:01:49,880
Speaker 3: Worry bombing people bringing food into Gaza at this point.

3403
03:01:50,160 --> 03:01:53,760
Speaker 4: Then they keep on doing this thing where they'll be like, oh,

3404
03:01:53,760 --> 03:01:57,040
Speaker 4: we have food, and then they shoot everyone who shows food.

3405
03:01:57,640 --> 03:02:00,960
Speaker 3: So this is something that World Food Program has been saying, quote.

3406
03:02:01,200 --> 03:02:04,199
Speaker 3: We also need to have no armed actors near food

3407
03:02:04,200 --> 03:02:06,879
Speaker 3: and distribution points, near our convoys, and near the movement

3408
03:02:06,879 --> 03:02:09,000
Speaker 3: of those convoys from one place to another.

3409
03:02:09,840 --> 03:02:12,360
Speaker 12: This is basic humanitarian agient. This is like one oh

3410
03:02:12,360 --> 03:02:15,800
Speaker 12: one fucking operating humanitarian resources in a conflict zone.

3411
03:02:15,840 --> 03:02:16,120
Speaker 4: Stuff.

3412
03:02:16,160 --> 03:02:20,000
Speaker 12: This isn't new stuff, right. This is asking the IDF

3413
03:02:20,040 --> 03:02:23,000
Speaker 12: to do what you would expect any reasonable actor to

3414
03:02:23,000 --> 03:02:27,120
Speaker 12: do in one of these situations. Obviously, the IDF not

3415
03:02:27,640 --> 03:02:29,160
Speaker 12: a particularly reasonable actor.

3416
03:02:29,240 --> 03:02:32,640
Speaker 3: Rain speaking of things they don't like, Oh.

3417
03:02:32,520 --> 03:02:36,760
Speaker 12: Garrison, you cannot compare the work of Joe drama to

3418
03:02:36,959 --> 03:02:41,320
Speaker 12: the ideas unreasonable Jesus Christ.

3419
03:02:41,480 --> 03:02:45,240
Speaker 3: If I don't like Jesus Christ, all right, welcome to

3420
03:02:45,320 --> 03:02:47,760
Speaker 3: tariff talk thing where I had no role in the

3421
03:02:47,800 --> 03:02:49,119
Speaker 3: prior transition to it.

3422
03:02:50,200 --> 03:02:54,119
Speaker 4: So we've gotten a few teriff deals over the week.

3423
03:02:54,240 --> 03:02:57,920
Speaker 4: We got one with the Philippines where Trump was negotiated

3424
03:02:57,959 --> 03:03:01,800
Speaker 4: a deal for a nineteen percent on all goods in

3425
03:03:01,800 --> 03:03:04,880
Speaker 4: the Philippines coming to the US. There's also been a

3426
03:03:04,879 --> 03:03:08,360
Speaker 4: deal established with Japan where we're out of terriforate of

3427
03:03:08,400 --> 03:03:12,080
Speaker 4: fifteen percent. This one also has and there's been a

3428
03:03:12,120 --> 03:03:14,800
Speaker 4: few of these deals that have things like this where

3429
03:03:15,440 --> 03:03:18,640
Speaker 4: Japan also had to agree to invest five hundred and

3430
03:03:18,680 --> 03:03:22,000
Speaker 4: fifty billion dollars in the US. It's really unclear how

3431
03:03:22,040 --> 03:03:26,000
Speaker 4: that's going to work, like it might just be loans.

3432
03:03:26,280 --> 03:03:26,720
Speaker 3: That's the part.

3433
03:03:26,720 --> 03:03:28,720
Speaker 4: I don't even know if it's going to happen, because

3434
03:03:28,760 --> 03:03:31,959
Speaker 4: it's so staggeringly fuzzy and unclear as to what any

3435
03:03:32,000 --> 03:03:35,120
Speaker 4: of that means. Trump has been talking about how there's

3436
03:03:35,160 --> 03:03:37,560
Speaker 4: going to be like a ninety ten profit split where

3437
03:03:37,600 --> 03:03:40,039
Speaker 4: Americans take home ninety percent of the profits in Japan

3438
03:03:40,040 --> 03:03:44,800
Speaker 4: takes on tempers very weird, very weird. This is also look,

3439
03:03:44,840 --> 03:03:48,160
Speaker 4: it's worth noting that the last time we deliberately decaped

3440
03:03:48,240 --> 03:03:52,320
Speaker 4: Japan's export manufacturing economy, dreading the Plaza Accords, it kicked

3441
03:03:52,320 --> 03:03:55,440
Speaker 4: off in economic crisis that Japan has literally never recovered from.

3442
03:03:55,879 --> 03:03:57,920
Speaker 4: Like people used to talk about the Japanese economy in

3443
03:03:57,920 --> 03:03:59,640
Speaker 4: the way that we talk about the Chinese economy now

3444
03:03:59,720 --> 03:04:01,960
Speaker 4: is like emerging rising on stoppable force that was going

3445
03:04:02,040 --> 03:04:05,520
Speaker 4: to like become the world's greatest manufacturing power, and we

3446
03:04:05,560 --> 03:04:08,320
Speaker 4: don't do that anymore, partially because of like Japan hit

3447
03:04:08,400 --> 03:04:10,840
Speaker 4: like structural overcapacity in the market blah blah blah blah blah.

3448
03:04:10,840 --> 03:04:12,800
Speaker 4: Listen to me on every other episode where I talk

3449
03:04:12,800 --> 03:04:17,960
Speaker 4: about the Plosa Accords and structural global manufacturing overcapacity. But again,

3450
03:04:18,000 --> 03:04:20,640
Speaker 4: the second thing is we also made their manufacturing less

3451
03:04:20,640 --> 03:04:23,720
Speaker 4: competitive and it destroyed the entire global economy. Like it's

3452
03:04:23,720 --> 03:04:26,560
Speaker 4: the reason two thousand and eight happened is because we

3453
03:04:26,600 --> 03:04:29,680
Speaker 4: did that, and we're doing it again. Like twenty eight

3454
03:04:29,760 --> 03:04:32,960
Speaker 4: percent of the Japanese economy is based on like car exports,

3455
03:04:33,080 --> 03:04:37,640
Speaker 4: so that's great, that's fun. There's also been reports that

3456
03:04:37,720 --> 03:04:41,320
Speaker 4: there's a deal with the EU coming. I don't know

3457
03:04:41,640 --> 03:04:43,840
Speaker 4: who knows. I'm not gonna say what's in it because

3458
03:04:43,959 --> 03:04:45,760
Speaker 4: we don't know if this is going to happen. There's

3459
03:04:46,400 --> 03:04:48,000
Speaker 4: that one in particular. There's a lot of things that

3460
03:04:48,040 --> 03:04:51,880
Speaker 4: can torpedo it, but it's not great. Also, these terrorists,

3461
03:04:51,879 --> 03:04:53,520
Speaker 4: by the way, are replacing the ones that are scheduled

3462
03:04:53,520 --> 03:04:55,480
Speaker 4: to go into effect on August first. Trump is still

3463
03:04:55,480 --> 03:04:58,280
Speaker 4: promising to put out tariff things for one hundred and

3464
03:04:58,320 --> 03:05:01,480
Speaker 4: twenty countries or something like that. I don't know then

3465
03:05:01,600 --> 03:05:03,440
Speaker 4: what the number is exactly right now. It keeps changing.

3466
03:05:03,600 --> 03:05:06,320
Speaker 4: He's also not writing those letters, so who knows.

3467
03:05:06,440 --> 03:05:07,120
Speaker 3: Silky Doki.

3468
03:05:07,360 --> 03:05:09,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, great way to have terrorist policy, say is that

3469
03:05:09,879 --> 03:05:14,200
Speaker 4: Trump says something on truth social and then doesn't do it.

3470
03:05:14,959 --> 03:05:17,520
Speaker 3: And sometimes he does, yes, sometimes he does.

3471
03:05:18,120 --> 03:05:20,000
Speaker 12: It's good. It's a good way to do things.

3472
03:05:20,560 --> 03:05:22,199
Speaker 3: It's okay.

3473
03:05:22,280 --> 03:05:24,480
Speaker 4: So speaking of things being done badly, we need to

3474
03:05:24,520 --> 03:05:28,560
Speaker 4: talk about NPR and PBS because Republic has just cut

3475
03:05:28,560 --> 03:05:31,480
Speaker 4: one point one billion dollars from public broadcasting, which is

3476
03:05:31,800 --> 03:05:32,280
Speaker 4: like all.

3477
03:05:32,200 --> 03:05:34,800
Speaker 3: Again, we were reported on what Elmo said last week.

3478
03:05:34,800 --> 03:05:38,080
Speaker 3: It's not a surprise that PBS is getting cut after this.

3479
03:05:38,720 --> 03:05:42,120
Speaker 4: I actually language hold on, we have not on this

3480
03:05:42,240 --> 03:05:46,240
Speaker 4: show talked about the fact that PBS like sold Sesame Street.

3481
03:05:46,560 --> 03:05:50,080
Speaker 3: Yes, that's true. This is so ghoulish, like it does

3482
03:05:50,280 --> 03:05:52,480
Speaker 3: Jenny whyee? Sesame Street was like one.

3483
03:05:52,280 --> 03:05:56,000
Speaker 4: Of the few, like really truly great triumphs of American

3484
03:05:56,000 --> 03:05:58,440
Speaker 4: state media, Like it was specifically designed to teach kids

3485
03:05:58,480 --> 03:06:00,120
Speaker 4: in underprivileged backgrounds.

3486
03:05:59,680 --> 03:06:02,120
Speaker 3: How to Now it's on like like HBO, Max or

3487
03:06:02,120 --> 03:06:04,199
Speaker 3: Netflix or something. I think some posites are still available

3488
03:06:04,240 --> 03:06:05,160
Speaker 3: on public podcasting.

3489
03:06:05,200 --> 03:06:06,879
Speaker 12: Some of it's in a public domain, like it's probably

3490
03:06:06,920 --> 03:06:08,480
Speaker 12: on youtubecause it's been out for SOTI.

3491
03:06:08,600 --> 03:06:08,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3492
03:06:08,800 --> 03:06:10,840
Speaker 4: But like the problem is, like, this is Jenni Wineley,

3493
03:06:10,920 --> 03:06:14,240
Speaker 4: one of the greatest public goods the US ever created,

3494
03:06:14,320 --> 03:06:18,800
Speaker 4: and it was fucking looted and privatized. And now as

3495
03:06:18,840 --> 03:06:20,680
Speaker 4: all of this funding is being cut, Trump has basically

3496
03:06:20,720 --> 03:06:23,560
Speaker 4: been pissed off at public podcasting for ages.

3497
03:06:24,240 --> 03:06:25,840
Speaker 3: Actually, hilariously a lot of this.

3498
03:06:26,320 --> 03:06:28,520
Speaker 4: One of the big origin points of this was that

3499
03:06:28,560 --> 03:06:31,920
Speaker 4: they had friend of the show, Vicky Osterweil on NPR

3500
03:06:32,080 --> 03:06:34,760
Speaker 4: to do an interview about her book in Defensive Looting

3501
03:06:34,800 --> 03:06:36,560
Speaker 4: and Republican's been mad ever since.

3502
03:06:36,959 --> 03:06:39,400
Speaker 3: Like a few months ago, Trump sign an executive order

3503
03:06:39,440 --> 03:06:44,440
Speaker 3: to quote unquote end taxpayer subsidation of biased media, which

3504
03:06:44,640 --> 03:06:49,160
Speaker 3: specifically sought to defund MPR and PBS through ending contributions

3505
03:06:49,200 --> 03:06:52,560
Speaker 3: through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in the order of saying,

3506
03:06:52,600 --> 03:06:55,000
Speaker 3: quote government funding of news media in this environment is

3507
03:06:55,000 --> 03:06:58,720
Speaker 3: not only outdated and unnecessary, but corrosive to the appearance

3508
03:06:59,000 --> 03:07:04,760
Speaker 3: of journalistic independence. And instead they replaced the role of

3509
03:07:04,879 --> 03:07:08,680
Speaker 3: PVS and NPR with One American News, the super far

3510
03:07:08,760 --> 03:07:11,960
Speaker 3: right mode in sending like American News overseas. Instead of

3511
03:07:12,040 --> 03:07:14,960
Speaker 3: promoting things like the Voice of America, they are explicitly

3512
03:07:15,360 --> 03:07:19,000
Speaker 3: entering a partnership with oa N which is of the.

3513
03:07:19,120 --> 03:07:22,560
Speaker 12: Certain stuff like Voice of American News and the Cuban

3514
03:07:22,600 --> 03:07:26,120
Speaker 12: Broadcasting Office right like where they which are explicitly like

3515
03:07:26,160 --> 03:07:28,280
Speaker 12: these are things the US government goes to to advance

3516
03:07:28,320 --> 03:07:29,920
Speaker 12: its a gender abroad like this isn't.

3517
03:07:30,200 --> 03:07:31,920
Speaker 3: And now the way that they're doing that is with

3518
03:07:32,040 --> 03:07:32,879
Speaker 3: One America.

3519
03:07:32,600 --> 03:07:34,480
Speaker 4: Which is really funny because that probably does make it

3520
03:07:34,560 --> 03:07:36,640
Speaker 4: less effective. I do want to circle back a little

3521
03:07:36,680 --> 03:07:38,680
Speaker 4: bit to what this is going to do to NPR

3522
03:07:38,720 --> 03:07:42,560
Speaker 4: and PPS because like the main central NPR, I mean,

3523
03:07:42,600 --> 03:07:45,720
Speaker 4: obviously it's a disaster for even like the National MPR,

3524
03:07:46,240 --> 03:07:50,720
Speaker 4: but like this is going to just annihilate any semplages

3525
03:07:50,840 --> 03:07:54,200
Speaker 4: of like local news, right, like yeah, because they rely

3526
03:07:54,280 --> 03:07:57,519
Speaker 4: on public broadcasting and NPR massively around the country.

3527
03:07:57,360 --> 03:07:58,600
Speaker 3: Especially in rural areas.

3528
03:07:58,640 --> 03:08:00,120
Speaker 4: Like one of the portsoyz ridicle was talking about how

3529
03:08:00,200 --> 03:08:02,280
Speaker 4: like Texas was expecting to lose half of their like

3530
03:08:02,440 --> 03:08:05,680
Speaker 4: NPR stations and like rural areas. This is just like

3531
03:08:06,120 --> 03:08:08,959
Speaker 4: the apocalypse for any kind of like rural local news.

3532
03:08:09,600 --> 03:08:11,360
Speaker 4: And you know, obviously, like this is a part of

3533
03:08:11,640 --> 03:08:15,440
Speaker 4: trust attempt to just consolidate all of the American media

3534
03:08:15,520 --> 03:08:18,760
Speaker 4: under his control through a combination of destroying this kind

3535
03:08:18,800 --> 03:08:22,040
Speaker 4: of stuff and then doing lawsuits. And also, and this

3536
03:08:22,160 --> 03:08:24,640
Speaker 4: is another thing we need to talk about is like Garrison,

3537
03:08:24,680 --> 03:08:27,520
Speaker 4: you talked about this Guidiance merger and how that you know,

3538
03:08:27,680 --> 03:08:30,520
Speaker 4: is being used as leverage to like just destroy the

3539
03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:33,440
Speaker 4: gut CBS, loot it and turn it into just like

3540
03:08:33,480 --> 03:08:34,720
Speaker 4: a pro Trumpet outlet, right.

3541
03:08:35,240 --> 03:08:39,760
Speaker 3: Like allegedly entering in a cooperation deal with the Free

3542
03:08:39,959 --> 03:08:45,040
Speaker 3: Press from Barry Weiss to exert editorial control over CBS News,

3543
03:08:45,160 --> 03:08:48,080
Speaker 3: which we'll just take the outlet destroy. Sixty minutes, one

3544
03:08:48,080 --> 03:08:51,560
Speaker 3: of the most respectable, longstanding television news programs in the

3545
03:08:51,640 --> 03:08:52,360
Speaker 3: history of the country.

3546
03:08:52,520 --> 03:08:54,000
Speaker 4: I think there's a very good argument that this is

3547
03:08:54,040 --> 03:08:56,400
Speaker 4: what Bezos is doing to the Washington Post. Right, is

3548
03:08:56,480 --> 03:08:59,280
Speaker 4: better for these people that news outlets don't exist or

3549
03:08:59,560 --> 03:09:02,360
Speaker 4: like seven people read the like unhandedbar right things, than

3550
03:09:02,400 --> 03:09:04,360
Speaker 4: it is for like anything to actually exist. This is

3551
03:09:04,400 --> 03:09:08,000
Speaker 4: all again like media consolidation of a diictorial regime, being

3552
03:09:08,680 --> 03:09:11,119
Speaker 4: accelerated by the fact that all of these things are

3553
03:09:11,480 --> 03:09:14,199
Speaker 4: owned either by corporations or individual billionaires.

3554
03:09:14,760 --> 03:09:15,760
Speaker 3: So that's bad.

3555
03:09:16,280 --> 03:09:20,200
Speaker 4: Speaking of bad, the EPA's Office of Research has just

3556
03:09:20,240 --> 03:09:21,000
Speaker 4: been eliminated.

3557
03:09:21,360 --> 03:09:25,960
Speaker 3: This is a unbelievable.

3558
03:09:25,160 --> 03:09:28,600
Speaker 4: Catastrophe because the EPA's Office of Research does all of

3559
03:09:28,720 --> 03:09:31,880
Speaker 4: the basic research about like is this chemical dangerous? What

3560
03:09:31,959 --> 03:09:34,160
Speaker 4: does this chemical do to the environment, what does like

3561
03:09:34,240 --> 03:09:36,640
Speaker 4: what do these pollution levels do? This is the part

3562
03:09:36,720 --> 03:09:40,000
Speaker 4: of the EPA that undergirds like basically all environmental regulations

3563
03:09:40,040 --> 03:09:43,120
Speaker 4: and all regulations on things like chemical protection. Right, it

3564
03:09:43,240 --> 03:09:45,840
Speaker 4: comes out of this Office of Research. That's where the

3565
03:09:46,000 --> 03:09:49,120
Speaker 4: standards are set. That's where the science has done that

3566
03:09:49,280 --> 03:09:52,720
Speaker 4: is used in basically like all like regulatory policy that

3567
03:09:52,800 --> 03:09:56,040
Speaker 4: the EPA does that other agencies used to and they're

3568
03:09:56,080 --> 03:09:58,240
Speaker 4: just destroying it. Trump has said that they're going to

3569
03:09:58,360 --> 03:10:00,680
Speaker 4: move some of it to other offices, but they've already

3570
03:10:00,720 --> 03:10:04,120
Speaker 4: been massively downsizing the EPA. Every day we edge closer

3571
03:10:04,200 --> 03:10:05,600
Speaker 4: and closers who are just like, this is the country

3572
03:10:05,640 --> 03:10:07,000
Speaker 4: with no environmental regulations.

3573
03:10:07,320 --> 03:10:08,800
Speaker 3: We're seeing it more and more.

3574
03:10:09,040 --> 03:10:10,480
Speaker 4: At some point on the show, we're going to cover

3575
03:10:11,160 --> 03:10:14,600
Speaker 4: all of the unhinged shit that's been happening with the

3576
03:10:14,720 --> 03:10:18,000
Speaker 4: power stations and like generators set up to power AI stuff.

3577
03:10:18,879 --> 03:10:21,640
Speaker 4: I also want to specifically mention one of the things

3578
03:10:21,680 --> 03:10:24,000
Speaker 4: that the New York Times reported on, which is that

3579
03:10:24,120 --> 03:10:27,160
Speaker 4: the people who are running the destruction of the EPA

3580
03:10:28,080 --> 03:10:30,119
Speaker 4: have been trying to get rid of the integrated risk

3581
03:10:30,200 --> 03:10:34,880
Speaker 4: information system, which, if you've ever dealt with dangerous chemicals,

3582
03:10:35,120 --> 03:10:37,680
Speaker 4: the integrated risk information system is the system that tells

3583
03:10:37,720 --> 03:10:39,560
Speaker 4: you what the effects of it are. Every chemical has

3584
03:10:39,600 --> 03:10:44,600
Speaker 4: one right and these fucking people like there's a guy

3585
03:10:44,680 --> 03:10:47,200
Speaker 4: who's now in the American First Policy Institute, which like

3586
03:10:47,320 --> 03:10:49,560
Speaker 4: Trump pulls a lot of shit from, who is literally

3587
03:10:49,680 --> 03:10:53,560
Speaker 4: talking about just getting rid of it because quote, IRIS

3588
03:10:53,680 --> 03:10:57,920
Speaker 4: evaluations often rely on worst case scenario hazard assumptions that

3589
03:10:58,000 --> 03:10:59,959
Speaker 4: fail to consider real world exposure.

3590
03:11:00,520 --> 03:11:02,480
Speaker 12: That's kind of the situation with these things, isn't you

3591
03:11:02,520 --> 03:11:04,160
Speaker 12: don't want to look at the worst case scenario.

3592
03:11:04,560 --> 03:11:06,760
Speaker 4: Yes, And when you don't look at the worst case scenario.

3593
03:11:06,959 --> 03:11:09,520
Speaker 4: One of the other agencies that's been like just destroyed

3594
03:11:09,800 --> 03:11:13,360
Speaker 4: is the US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, which

3595
03:11:13,440 --> 03:11:15,320
Speaker 4: is very famous for doing a bunch of very very

3596
03:11:15,360 --> 03:11:19,320
Speaker 4: good YouTube videos about like plant disasters and like how

3597
03:11:19,400 --> 03:11:23,360
Speaker 4: safety violations and safety lapse has caused like fucking plants

3598
03:11:23,400 --> 03:11:24,039
Speaker 4: to explode.

3599
03:11:24,720 --> 03:11:25,800
Speaker 3: And that's just like gone now.

3600
03:11:26,720 --> 03:11:29,240
Speaker 4: And this is, you know, the world that these people

3601
03:11:29,280 --> 03:11:31,120
Speaker 4: want you to live in is a world in which

3602
03:11:31,160 --> 03:11:34,600
Speaker 4: you don't know what all of these corporations are pumping

3603
03:11:34,600 --> 03:11:36,440
Speaker 4: into the environment around you. And even if you can

3604
03:11:36,480 --> 03:11:39,120
Speaker 4: figure out what the chemicals they're pumping, like into the

3605
03:11:39,160 --> 03:11:42,320
Speaker 4: groundwater that you're drinking is, you're not supposed to know

3606
03:11:42,440 --> 03:11:45,480
Speaker 4: what it does. This is just like the basic infrastructure

3607
03:11:45,520 --> 03:11:51,600
Speaker 4: for how all American like chemical operations work, and they're

3608
03:11:51,720 --> 03:11:53,040
Speaker 4: just trying to destroy it.

3609
03:11:53,600 --> 03:11:53,800
Speaker 8: You know.

3610
03:11:53,920 --> 03:11:58,360
Speaker 3: Great, speaking of chemicals.

3611
03:11:58,560 --> 03:12:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking of chemicals and the gun trying to destroy it.

3612
03:12:01,520 --> 03:12:05,400
Speaker 4: The government of Puerto Rico has passed a bill that

3613
03:12:05,720 --> 03:12:09,080
Speaker 4: bans gender affirming care of all kinds for anyone under

3614
03:12:09,120 --> 03:12:12,080
Speaker 4: the age of twenty one, because twenty one is the age,

3615
03:12:12,120 --> 03:12:14,680
Speaker 4: the highest that we've seen. So what's happening here is

3616
03:12:14,760 --> 03:12:17,040
Speaker 4: twenty one is the age which become a legal adult

3617
03:12:17,120 --> 03:12:19,720
Speaker 4: in Puerto Rico, which is unhinged. Yeah, this is the

3618
03:12:19,760 --> 03:12:21,320
Speaker 4: highest band we've seen. We've seen a couple of other

3619
03:12:21,320 --> 03:12:25,000
Speaker 4: places try to do it to nineteen. This also includes

3620
03:12:25,040 --> 03:12:29,480
Speaker 4: what's basically a high amendment for transcare, like all transcare

3621
03:12:29,560 --> 03:12:31,840
Speaker 4: of all ages that says that like state money cannot

3622
03:12:31,840 --> 03:12:34,560
Speaker 4: be used, so state insurance stuff like that in Puerto

3623
03:12:34,600 --> 03:12:37,879
Speaker 4: Rico cannot be used to pay for any gender affirming

3624
03:12:37,959 --> 03:12:42,360
Speaker 4: care at all, which is fucking hideous. This is basically

3625
03:12:42,400 --> 03:12:44,080
Speaker 4: the thing we were trying to stop with medicaid, where

3626
03:12:44,160 --> 03:12:46,440
Speaker 4: we did stop Medicaid the Lost Budget bill, but they've

3627
03:12:46,480 --> 03:12:49,640
Speaker 4: passed a local version of it. This bill promises us.

3628
03:12:49,640 --> 03:12:51,440
Speaker 4: I think it's up to five years in prison and

3629
03:12:51,520 --> 03:12:54,480
Speaker 4: fifteen thousand dollars in fines for anyone who gives trans

3630
03:12:54,560 --> 03:12:56,320
Speaker 4: healthcare to anyone under the age of twenty one.

3631
03:12:56,720 --> 03:12:58,879
Speaker 3: So if you never planned to visit Puerto Rico, it's

3632
03:12:58,920 --> 03:13:02,000
Speaker 3: time to start mailing gender firm and care services to

3633
03:13:02,200 --> 03:13:03,240
Speaker 3: people in Puerto Rico.

3634
03:13:03,720 --> 03:13:07,000
Speaker 4: The fun part too, is this law is worded so

3635
03:13:07,240 --> 03:13:11,360
Speaker 4: loosely that there is genuine concern that it could apply

3636
03:13:11,480 --> 03:13:14,800
Speaker 4: to Like if you are a parent and you try

3637
03:13:14,840 --> 03:13:18,240
Speaker 4: to get your kid gender firman care, this could apply

3638
03:13:18,360 --> 03:13:18,520
Speaker 4: to you.

3639
03:13:18,879 --> 03:13:20,320
Speaker 3: There's I will say, I think that aspect of it

3640
03:13:20,480 --> 03:13:22,040
Speaker 3: is still a little bit unclear. I don't want to

3641
03:13:22,400 --> 03:13:26,120
Speaker 3: inspire too much panic in that sense. I think a

3642
03:13:26,160 --> 03:13:28,240
Speaker 3: lot of it is directed at people who work in

3643
03:13:28,280 --> 03:13:31,720
Speaker 3: the medical industry. But still I think if you do

3644
03:13:31,840 --> 03:13:34,480
Speaker 3: not ever want to visit Puerto Rico and you want

3645
03:13:34,520 --> 03:13:37,039
Speaker 3: to help trans people, because presumably.

3646
03:13:36,680 --> 03:13:39,920
Speaker 12: Like no ban on like the import of these products, right,

3647
03:13:39,920 --> 03:13:41,920
Speaker 12: I guess some products themselves controlled.

3648
03:13:42,320 --> 03:13:46,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean in chal law, they don't start doing that.

3649
03:13:47,040 --> 03:13:51,320
Speaker 3: But because famously there's never illegal drugs mailed in the

3650
03:13:51,440 --> 03:13:55,720
Speaker 3: United States, they can't stop us US. We're getting the

3651
03:13:55,879 --> 03:13:59,160
Speaker 3: HRT one way or another. But this sucks, and it

3652
03:13:59,200 --> 03:14:01,840
Speaker 3: will force people to adapt, and it's a really unfortunate

3653
03:14:01,920 --> 03:14:04,000
Speaker 3: to see. But I do believe in the ability which

3654
03:14:04,000 --> 03:14:07,800
Speaker 3: tries people to overcome the state's attacks against us. Before

3655
03:14:07,840 --> 03:14:10,400
Speaker 3: we close, there's actually one other piece of important news

3656
03:14:10,440 --> 03:14:12,760
Speaker 3: that we need to discuss. We're turning once again to

3657
03:14:12,800 --> 03:14:17,320
Speaker 3: the Stinky Musky segment, because the Tesla Diner has finally opened.

3658
03:14:17,400 --> 03:14:20,480
Speaker 3: I know we've been waiting for this for a long time.

3659
03:14:21,320 --> 03:14:24,640
Speaker 3: It is open in La, right right, yeah, so James,

3660
03:14:24,800 --> 03:14:26,880
Speaker 3: you need to get up there and go to the

3661
03:14:26,959 --> 03:14:32,320
Speaker 3: Tesla Diner. They have cyber truck food containers, so that's cool. Cool.

3662
03:14:32,520 --> 03:14:36,040
Speaker 3: They have Tesla robots helping to serve food and drinks.

3663
03:14:36,360 --> 03:14:39,240
Speaker 3: It's what they're calling retro futurist style. I would never

3664
03:14:39,280 --> 03:14:42,760
Speaker 3: say that. And most importantly, if you want to spend

3665
03:14:42,800 --> 03:14:46,080
Speaker 3: twelve dollars, you can get yourself a single serving of

3666
03:14:46,480 --> 03:14:49,440
Speaker 3: epic bacon that's on the menu. It's called epic Bacon

3667
03:14:50,000 --> 03:14:53,920
Speaker 3: for twelve dollars. Twelve dollars epic bacon at the Tesla

3668
03:14:54,040 --> 03:14:57,480
Speaker 3: Dinars twelve oh. They also opened it at four twenty.

3669
03:14:58,080 --> 03:14:59,960
Speaker 12: I saw that they also have avocato toast, which is

3670
03:15:00,080 --> 03:15:02,000
Speaker 12: great for those of us who will never afford a home.

3671
03:15:02,760 --> 03:15:05,360
Speaker 3: I can't support the Tesla Diners serving this lib cock

3672
03:15:05,560 --> 03:15:08,960
Speaker 3: avocado toes. It needs to be beef tallow fries.

3673
03:15:09,360 --> 03:15:12,920
Speaker 12: Well, unfortunately, they did put buttermilk bread with avocado toes,

3674
03:15:13,000 --> 03:15:15,160
Speaker 12: so just so like vegan people can't eat there. I

3675
03:15:15,200 --> 03:15:18,440
Speaker 12: guess there you go. Yeah, and again I cannot go

3676
03:15:18,600 --> 03:15:21,200
Speaker 12: to the testa diner. I don't have to return to

3677
03:15:21,360 --> 03:15:23,960
Speaker 12: Buffalo wild Wings at two am like I did when

3678
03:15:24,000 --> 03:15:26,000
Speaker 12: I was up in LA covering the protest a few

3679
03:15:26,040 --> 03:15:26,440
Speaker 12: weeks ago.

3680
03:15:28,440 --> 03:15:30,040
Speaker 1: Four wild Wings open that late.

3681
03:15:31,560 --> 03:15:32,879
Speaker 12: Let me tell you it was no time.

3682
03:15:33,360 --> 03:15:36,160
Speaker 3: What other time are you going to be eating Buffalo

3683
03:15:36,320 --> 03:15:37,160
Speaker 3: wild wings?

3684
03:15:38,600 --> 03:15:41,199
Speaker 12: Are you launching there like a fucking psycho.

3685
03:15:42,720 --> 03:15:43,440
Speaker 1: In college?

3686
03:15:43,600 --> 03:15:46,320
Speaker 12: But it was a good time back in the This

3687
03:15:46,400 --> 03:15:49,240
Speaker 12: is a great time. God, no one looked to be

3688
03:15:49,320 --> 03:15:51,760
Speaker 12: weird for wearing a fucking plate carrier with press.

3689
03:15:53,320 --> 03:15:57,160
Speaker 3: Buffalo is a war zone. It's basically one step removed

3690
03:15:57,200 --> 03:15:58,320
Speaker 3: from like waffle house.

3691
03:15:58,560 --> 03:16:01,240
Speaker 12: Yeah yeah, which is in turn wanted to removed from Falujah.

3692
03:16:01,360 --> 03:16:03,920
Speaker 3: So James, I thought that you wanted to plug.

3693
03:16:04,080 --> 03:16:07,000
Speaker 12: Well that's right, Okay. So we do have an email address.

3694
03:16:07,000 --> 03:16:09,520
Speaker 12: It's a encrypted email address, and you can send us

3695
03:16:09,560 --> 03:16:14,560
Speaker 12: emails there. It is cool Zone tips at proton dot me.

3696
03:16:15,080 --> 03:16:17,959
Speaker 12: What's it going to include? A fundraiser this week? We're

3697
03:16:17,959 --> 03:16:19,600
Speaker 12: trying to do one of these every week if there's

3698
03:16:19,640 --> 03:16:22,800
Speaker 12: someone in your community, Like we're trying to focus on

3699
03:16:22,840 --> 03:16:25,520
Speaker 12: micro fundraisers, people who are raising money for legal a

3700
03:16:25,680 --> 03:16:29,040
Speaker 12: people who need representation. I know immigration lawyers are either

3701
03:16:29,160 --> 03:16:32,440
Speaker 12: overworked or overpriced. It seems to be like like two

3702
03:16:32,520 --> 03:16:33,720
Speaker 12: brackets that they've gone into.

3703
03:16:34,480 --> 03:16:35,040
Speaker 3: Hit me up.

3704
03:16:35,160 --> 03:16:36,800
Speaker 12: You can send that to me at that email address

3705
03:16:36,840 --> 03:16:39,000
Speaker 12: and we'll try and include more of them. This week

3706
03:16:39,120 --> 03:16:43,360
Speaker 12: we are fundraising for Primrose and you can find her

3707
03:16:44,320 --> 03:16:49,160
Speaker 12: go fundme page at www dot GoFundMe dot com, slash

3708
03:16:49,400 --> 03:16:55,560
Speaker 12: f slash immigration hyphen lawyer hyphen for hyphen Primos at

3709
03:16:55,600 --> 03:16:57,920
Speaker 12: Primos Who's out of detention right now, which is great,

3710
03:16:57,959 --> 03:16:59,600
Speaker 12: but I know she still has a lot of significant

3711
03:16:59,640 --> 03:17:03,240
Speaker 12: expense is and legal expenses coming up. So if you

3712
03:17:03,400 --> 03:17:05,200
Speaker 12: would like to donate, if you'd like to help, this

3713
03:17:05,360 --> 03:17:07,160
Speaker 12: is a concrete thing you can do to help someone.

3714
03:17:08,440 --> 03:17:12,640
Speaker 3: We reported the news, We reported the news.

3715
03:17:41,640 --> 03:17:44,800
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3716
03:17:44,879 --> 03:17:46,760
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3717
03:17:47,560 --> 03:17:48,119
Speaker 1: It could happen.

3718
03:17:48,160 --> 03:17:50,560
Speaker 19: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

3719
03:17:50,600 --> 03:17:54,080
Speaker 19: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia

3720
03:17:54,120 --> 03:17:56,880
Speaker 19: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3721
03:17:57,000 --> 03:18:00,560
Speaker 19: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3722
03:18:00,600 --> 03:18:02,920
Speaker 19: now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly

3723
03:18:02,959 --> 03:18:05,240
Speaker 19: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,