WEBVTT - Tariffs and the Corruption State

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<v Speaker 1>Call Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to it could Happen Here, a podcast about things

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<v Speaker 2>falling apart this week featuring an entire three sentences about

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<v Speaker 2>putting it back together again. I am your host, Bio Wong,

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<v Speaker 2>and today we are gathered here to talk about tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, it has been a massive two weeks of

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<v Speaker 2>tariff news, the most important aspect of which has been

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<v Speaker 2>finally getting a resolution to what was going on with

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberation Day turf tariffs that Trump tried to impose

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<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of his time in office. On July

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<v Speaker 2>thirty first, we finally actually found out what those tarrists

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<v Speaker 2>are going to look like, and what those troists are

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<v Speaker 2>going to look like is prisciannen Effectively, what happened is

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<v Speaker 2>that roughly, if the US runs a trade deficit with you,

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<v Speaker 2>you get a fifteen percent tariff, and you get a

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<v Speaker 2>ten percent tariff if we run a trade surplus with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there's a bunch of other individual rates. We'll get

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<v Speaker 2>to some of them in a second, but it's worth

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<v Speaker 2>emphasizing that this doesn't make any sense. So okay, before

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<v Speaker 2>we get into the structural effects of this, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of look at what the nominal stated justification

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<v Speaker 2>for imposing these tariffs are and how they're at odds

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<v Speaker 2>with each other. And this is the point where we're

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<v Speaker 2>turn to later. Part of the justification for the tariffs

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<v Speaker 2>is that, okay, they're trying to use tariffts to replace

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<v Speaker 2>the income tax. That's nonsense, it's gibberish. You literally cannot

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<v Speaker 2>raise enough money through tariffs to replace the income tax.

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<v Speaker 2>But okay, that's the thing that they want to do.

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<v Speaker 2>The other nominal justification, and this is what's being used

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<v Speaker 2>in negotiations and is the thing that is causing individual

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<v Speaker 2>tariff rates to randomly sort of be jacked up, is

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<v Speaker 2>that Trump is pissed off that the US runs trade

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<v Speaker 2>deficits with countries. And again, like this is basically nonsense.

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<v Speaker 2>The US pays for things in its own currency. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't actually need other places currency. It doesn't matter if

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<v Speaker 2>we run trade deficits. I really hate that Rand Paul

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<v Speaker 2>is right when he said I run a trade deficit

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<v Speaker 2>with my grocery store. But like, that's how the American

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<v Speaker 2>Empire is supposed to work. These people do not care

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<v Speaker 2>that this is how the American Empire is supposed to work.

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<v Speaker 2>They have been handed the most sophisticated imperial machinery that

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<v Speaker 2>has ever existed in the entirety of human history. And

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<v Speaker 2>they see numbers on a chart which says we pay

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<v Speaker 2>them more money than we're getting and they're pissed about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, okay, if that's the state of justification, right,

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<v Speaker 2>then why are you imposing a terra fund countries? We

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<v Speaker 2>have a trade serplus two that doesn't make any sense,

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<v Speaker 2>and the difference between them is only five percent, So

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<v Speaker 2>what are we doing here? It's nonsense, like our trade

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<v Speaker 2>policy is being run by people who don't understand how

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<v Speaker 2>any of this works and are operating off of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>effectively just pure anger and rage. So I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about a few of the really really high rates.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not going to focus on much on the thirty

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<v Speaker 2>percent South Africa, for example, but oh boy, so Syria

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<v Speaker 2>is at forty one percent, which is absolutely fucking hideous.

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<v Speaker 2>Syria is a country that I don't know anyone who

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<v Speaker 2>listens to this show is aware of the extent to

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<v Speaker 2>which Syria has been devastated by the civil war, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is an incredible blow to their economy. Laus and

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<v Speaker 2>Me and mar are also being terriffed at forty percent,

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<v Speaker 2>and we promised in the executive disorder to explain how

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<v Speaker 2>Trump recognizing the junta. So Joe Biden had refused to

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<v Speaker 2>recognize me and Mar's like military coup government. As long

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<v Speaker 2>time listeners of this show are aware, there is a

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<v Speaker 2>military coup in in memr There is a large gale

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<v Speaker 2>revolutionary process attempting to overthrow this government. My co host

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<v Speaker 2>James Stout and Robert Evans have done a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>very good reporting on this that you can go find.

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<v Speaker 2>You should find it. It's some of the best journalism

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<v Speaker 2>that I've ever encountered. But the US's official position has

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<v Speaker 2>been that we don't recognize the coup government because it is,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is true, a coup government. But Trump just

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<v Speaker 2>sent the junta a letter of it says you're tariff

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<v Speaker 2>to forty percent. And the thing about this is the

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<v Speaker 2>Junta was like, oh shit, hell yeah, Like that means

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<v Speaker 2>you recognize us, right, because you're sending us official fucking

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<v Speaker 2>notices of shit. So you're recognizing US as the legitimate

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<v Speaker 2>government of mean Mar. And so the Juta is like

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<v Speaker 2>thrilled by this. There's some evidence of like the US

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<v Speaker 2>lifting sanctions on them after. It's kind of messy, but yeah, great,

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<v Speaker 2>somehow in the attempts to sort of just like squeeze

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<v Speaker 2>every last drop out of all of these countries, we

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<v Speaker 2>have recognized an incredibly brutal military dictatorship. Hate that back

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<v Speaker 2>to the more direct tariff stuff. The tariffs on Laos

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<v Speaker 2>is also going to be devastating for Laosian economy, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a lot of the economies in Southeast Asia are

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<v Speaker 2>pretty heavily export driven, and it's one of the places

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<v Speaker 2>where a lot of textiles manufacturing takes place. After the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of increase in labor prices and increase in resistance

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<v Speaker 2>from the labor movement in China kind of pushed all

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<v Speaker 2>of that capital down the make Cong River delta. This

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<v Speaker 2>is going to absolutely fucking suck for everyone in Laos.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, this is something I want to keep

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<v Speaker 2>emphasizing over and over again that these turf teriffs, people

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<v Speaker 2>they hurt the most are workers in places like Laos,

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<v Speaker 2>in places like Syria, right, who are going to just

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<v Speaker 2>be absolutely fucking devastated by it. Now, let's also talk Switzerland,

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<v Speaker 2>which was the other country that had a terriff at

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<v Speaker 2>like forty percent This one is genuinely really funny, which

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<v Speaker 2>is that it seems to largely be driven by Trump

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<v Speaker 2>being pissed off of the trade deficit, which is like

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<v Speaker 2>compared to like the scale of the US economy, that

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<v Speaker 2>deficit is like zero dollars. But the funniest part of

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<v Speaker 2>this is that the trade deficit is largely driven by

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<v Speaker 2>gold imports. Now, this is extremely funny because if you

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<v Speaker 2>know anything about the American Right, you know that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the ways that they did their funding, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when they were sort of building their operations, a huge

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<v Speaker 2>source of their funding is getting their followers to buy gold.

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<v Speaker 2>This was the original Alex Jones grift right. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he still does it a little bit now. Before he

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<v Speaker 2>sort of pivoted into supplements, he would partner with like

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<v Speaker 2>gold salesmen and like silvia salesman. This and this has

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<v Speaker 2>always been a huge source of these people's money. Now

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<v Speaker 2>there's there's been a little bit of decrease in the

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<v Speaker 2>prominence of gold as a thing. There's a very good

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<v Speaker 2>Folding Ideas video about this incredibly bizarre Indrius Elba Weird

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<v Speaker 2>gold promotion documentary which talks about the ways in which

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<v Speaker 2>gold has been sort of threatened by bitcoin, and well

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<v Speaker 2>mostly bitcoin, but it's like cryptocurrency in general is like

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<v Speaker 2>the scam you're trying to sell all of these sort

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<v Speaker 2>of weird prepper and like hard lia line quote unquote

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<v Speaker 2>sound money libertariany types. But it is very funny that

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<v Speaker 2>this is in effect a self reinforcing cycle, because the

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<v Speaker 2>thing about the price of gold is that it is

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<v Speaker 2>largely determined by how fuck the rest of the economy is.

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<v Speaker 2>The old people who are trying to sell gold are

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<v Speaker 2>trying to sell you on the fact that the economy

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<v Speaker 2>is about to fucking explode. But this is a cyclical effect,

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<v Speaker 2>right where these terff rates go up and the economy explodes,

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<v Speaker 2>and so people buy more gold from Switzerland, at which

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<v Speaker 2>point are trade balanced with Switzerland gets worse. It works,

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<v Speaker 2>it worse, so and any other like Swiss watches or

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<v Speaker 2>another sort of major source of export currency so off,

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<v Speaker 2>which are again all worn by all these fucking maga

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<v Speaker 2>grifters with their like fucking ten thousand dollars watches or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>So that one's just funny. Trump has also announced and

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<v Speaker 2>this has not gone into effect yet, who fucking knows

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<v Speaker 2>when if it goes into effect, But I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>worth talking about, which is that Trump has been talking

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<v Speaker 2>about putting a one hundred percent tariff on semiconductors unless

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<v Speaker 2>you invest in the US. So Apple sort of in

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<v Speaker 2>response to this, pledged one hundred million dollars in investment

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<v Speaker 2>in the US to build chips. And I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>also worth looking at the ideological underpinnings of this, because

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<v Speaker 2>a huge part of this thing is something that you've

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<v Speaker 2>been seeing increasingly on the right, is this dream of

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<v Speaker 2>making domestic iPhones. And if you look at the people

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<v Speaker 2>in the tech sector, right, the sort of tech billionaires

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<v Speaker 2>who run all this stuff, they're openly fantasizing about like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>these like soft weak liberals are going to be forced

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<v Speaker 2>to like work in the factories and put iPhones together

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. And it's worth emphasizing that this is just

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<v Speaker 2>not possible, right, And this is true of a significant

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<v Speaker 2>number of the things that they want these tariffs to do.

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<v Speaker 2>They're just not possible results of the policy levers they're pulling.

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<v Speaker 2>A couple of months ago, I described a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>similar policy thing to this as like they're they are

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<v Speaker 2>attempting to scream at the moon in order to control

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<v Speaker 2>the tides and it's like it doesn't work, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>the right lever. It literally can't do what you think

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to you. And it's worth going into why,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that we can't make iPhones here because we

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<v Speaker 2>don't have the migrant labor force to do it. And

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of you may be thinking, oh, well, the

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<v Speaker 2>US has a lot of migrant workers. No, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand China, which is where most of these things are built.

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<v Speaker 2>Even with the terriffs, like a lot of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there were some downcycling of plants, that stuff has mostly

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<v Speaker 2>been upcycled. Again, China has three hundred million migrant workers.

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<v Speaker 2>That is almost the entire population of the United States. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>we are talking about individual plants with two hundred thousand workers.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the low end estimate. By the way of

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<v Speaker 2>those numbers, we don't actually have very good numbers on

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<v Speaker 2>how big some of these fox Con facilities are. The

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<v Speaker 2>low end estimate is two hundred thousand. Right, and again

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<v Speaker 2>this is just in time production. So okay, what does

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<v Speaker 2>that actually mean? Right? This means that the production cycles

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<v Speaker 2>work a lot of For example, the way that ups works. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>We're like, you have a bunch of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>effectively seasonal or part time workers who only come in

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<v Speaker 2>when demand increases, so for ups, right, and it's actually

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<v Speaker 2>a relatively similar schedule to the way it works in China.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's like there's these massive surges around the holidays

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<v Speaker 2>with apples. It's more like September November roughly. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>in order to like massively be able to ramp up

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<v Speaker 2>production in time for you know, the sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>massive holiday increase of orders. Right. But in order to

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<v Speaker 2>do this, you need to have a production apparatus where

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<v Speaker 2>you have two hundred thousand workers there, but you can

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<v Speaker 2>also get rid of most of them and they can

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<v Speaker 2>support themselves doing other stuff for the rest of the year,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you have to be able to bring them

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<v Speaker 2>back in during peak season. We just do not have

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<v Speaker 2>the populations to replicate this, right, even if you're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to replace it with prison labor. The thing about the

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<v Speaker 2>American prison system is that it's decentralized, right. This is

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<v Speaker 2>actually a key element of how the US economy is structured.

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<v Speaker 2>Prisons are one of the sort of three major sources

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<v Speaker 2>of jobs in rural areas. The other two are like

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<v Speaker 2>va March style service jobs, which replaced anything else that

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<v Speaker 2>was in the economy and the military basis, which is

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<v Speaker 2>part of why you know, like like this is part

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<v Speaker 2>of why rural politics of console reactionary because like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so if your options in the economy are soldier, prison guard, service, labor,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna generate a bunch of unhinged reactionary bullshit. But again,

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<v Speaker 2>even even though the American prison system has a really

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<v Speaker 2>high population, these people are really spread out, and iPhone

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<v Speaker 2>production requires sort of like mass centralization, right, that's the

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<v Speaker 2>only way to get these things to work. Plus, the

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<v Speaker 2>workers that you're bringing in have to be skilled enough

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to do this shit. And this is

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<v Speaker 2>a capacity that's built up in China over the course

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<v Speaker 2>of like of like decades, right, And we don't really

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<v Speaker 2>have this now that people have tried moving this production

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<v Speaker 2>into other places like Vietnam, for example, the teriff rates

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<v Speaker 2>there are also making this extremely difficult. But it's been

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<v Speaker 2>really really hard to replace. And the other issue, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is a technological issue, not just a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>issue of the systemic elements of the population of China.

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<v Speaker 2>The infrastructure to build microchips in the US doesn't exist,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not just that the infrastructure to build the

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<v Speaker 2>chips doesn't exist. It's actually way worse than that, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is why all of the attempts, and the Biden

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<v Speaker 2>administration has put an enormous amount of money into this.

0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 2>The Chinese government also has put an enormous amount of

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.760
<v Speaker 2>money spifically into the microchip angle, and none of them

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.360
<v Speaker 2>may have been able to do it. And part of

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.280
<v Speaker 2>it's technological problem, but part of it is that the

0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.840
<v Speaker 2>machines that you need to make the chips don't exist, right,

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 2>But the machines you need to make the machines that

0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.800
<v Speaker 2>make the chips also don't exist. And the machines you

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.360
<v Speaker 2>need to make the machines that make the machines that

0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.319
<v Speaker 2>make the chips also don't exist. We are so far

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>up the supply chain, right, and this is one of

0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:48.599
<v Speaker 2>the you know, one of the things, the thing that

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.679
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to do through sort of like pure politics,

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.200
<v Speaker 2>right through like just like the pure exertion of state power,

0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 2>is to reshape the fundamental structural way that the supply

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.679
<v Speaker 2>chain work, and the way the supply chain is worked

0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:06.439
<v Speaker 2>is by intense specialization in very very very small areas. Right,

0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.240
<v Speaker 2>So Taiwan for example, becomes the only place basically that

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.679
<v Speaker 2>can manufacture these chips. And that intense specification means that

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>like the machines that make the machines that they that

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.320
<v Speaker 2>are used to build this thing are only made by

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:17.880
<v Speaker 2>like one company in social land, and like machines to

0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>make those machines like who the fuck knows where they're built.

0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 2>And this is a thing where the technology involves become

0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.839
<v Speaker 2>so complicated and the laborers become so specialized that you're

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>dealing with machines that like just straight up not many

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.959
<v Speaker 2>people in the world know how to use, and not

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>on people in the world know how to create, and

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 2>so we're so far up the supply chain, right, And

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:39.360
<v Speaker 2>this is also if you want to look at like

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.319
<v Speaker 2>what the impact of these terrists are going to be, right,

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.959
<v Speaker 2>because your supply chains are so specialized. You know, you

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.120
<v Speaker 2>can think of these supply chains as like incredibly complicated machines, right,

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and any sort of like little rock that you throw

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.240
<v Speaker 2>into the machine, or do you know, you throw sand

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.319
<v Speaker 2>into the machine and suddenly the ball bearing doesn't work

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.680
<v Speaker 2>at quite the right efficiency, and so things just start

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 2>breaking down across the entire supply chain, and they think

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 2>that they can just replicate all of this with just

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 2>like pure tariffs and like throwing money at it, and no,

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 2>you can't. These are these are actual structural things of

0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>how the economy works. Now, do you know what else

0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.600
<v Speaker 2>is a structural element of how the economy works? Idiot?

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Is these products and services and the fact that they

0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 2>fund this podcast. Woo, we are so back now. One

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of the other kind of terriffs I think I've been

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 2>calling I guess like defiance tariffs. One of the things

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 2>that Shop administration has been doing is threatening to impose

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 2>a fifty percent teriff on anyone who buys oil from Russia.

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 2>India has been threatened with this. India's current terrif rate

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 2>is twenty five percent. They're right now threatening with another

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent against in the fifty percent. It's sort

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of unclear exactly who's going to back down here. More interestingly,

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 2>and we've talked a little bit about this, Brazil. There

0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 2>was a fifty percent turf of tariff on Brazil again

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 2>for refusing to release Bolsonaro, which is very funny because

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>this has managed to piss off the entire sort of

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>political sphere in Brazil to the extent that like Bolsonaro,

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 2>has had to come out and announce this because Bolsonaro

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 2>was getting fucking torn to shreds by the Brazilian right

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.400
<v Speaker 2>for being basically a trader sort of lapdog of the US,

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 2>as they're sort of, you know, imposing this direct attack

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 2>on Brazil through this fifty percent tariff. Right. It's backfire

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>so spectacularly that like Lula, who was floundering, is now

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 2>writing this incredible wave of sort of anti American Brazilian

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 2>nationalism from both the left and the right. So Lula,

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 2>who is who is again in a pretty strong political

0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 2>position because of this, has refused that you direct talk

0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 2>to the US because he was like, absolutely not fuck this.

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Here's a quote from Routers. We had already pardoned the

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.600
<v Speaker 2>US intervention in the nineteen sixty four coup, said Lula,

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 2>who got his political start as a union leader protesting

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.840
<v Speaker 2>against the military government that followed a US backed ouster

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 2>of a democratically elected presidents. Quote. But this is now

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 2>not a small intervention. It's the president of the United

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.120
<v Speaker 2>States thinking he can dictate rules for a sovereign country

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 2>like Brazil. It's unacceptable. Now. Again, as I said in

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 2>the ed, there's a lot of things now that are

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 2>worth looking at here. Right, we have, on the one hand,

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 2>this direct connection from Lula from you know, the sort

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>of subtle CIA backing of military coup stuff which happens

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.600
<v Speaker 2>under the table to you know this just like the

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>president of the United States is telling you how to

0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 2>run your country. And that is a subjective shift, even

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 2>if like the CIA overthrowing your government like has more

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 2>of a direct political impact on it. Right. The thing

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.600
<v Speaker 2>about the thing about the way American power worked was

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>that it was mostly supposed to be under the table,

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's not now. It's just it's just out there

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 2>in the open. Right. The premise that the US governments,

0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:52.880
<v Speaker 2>like the president of the United States, should just be

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.160
<v Speaker 2>able to tell another country what to do is the

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>fucking premise of American imperialism. And now they're just saying

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 2>it out loud and noting that it's not like Lula

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.360
<v Speaker 2>is some kind of like anti American radical, right, Like

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Lula worked really well in his first term in office,

0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>which was w Bush, but again because of the way

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 2>that the political winds have shifted here, right to the

0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:17.120
<v Speaker 2>extent that like Bolsonaro has had to condemn an attempt

0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 2>to get him released from prison, which is so funny

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.000
<v Speaker 2>because he's doing this. He is, he is, he is

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 2>pushing very hard. Now there hasn't really been a response

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 2>yet for Lula's call for organized terror resistance from China

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.720
<v Speaker 2>and India and bricks. I don't know if there's going

0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.160
<v Speaker 2>to be. It's worth talking a little bit about what

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:43.359
<v Speaker 2>bricks actually is here. So bricks stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China,

0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 2>South Africa. It was originally like an asset class designed

0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.439
<v Speaker 2>by some guys at Goldman Sachs who were, you know,

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to like classify the assets of this kind of

0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.159
<v Speaker 2>like developing economy thing. It was like, you know, you

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.080
<v Speaker 2>can buy bonds and these things and maybe you can

0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 2>you can classify their asset rates together and has kind

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 2>of become a political alliance. But you know, there's a

0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of people who will attempt to sell you on

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>bricks being this sort of like leftist anti imperial alliance,

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, and as a sort of socialist thing. And

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 2>like I will simply ask, right, who is doing the

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 2>socialism here? Right? Is it a butcher of Gujarat? Is

0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.959
<v Speaker 2>it she quote? We must oppose Welfarerism jimping. Is it, Vladimir,

0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.399
<v Speaker 2>we will show Ukraine true decommunization Putin? Is it the

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 2>African National Congress of selling your country to Bank of America?

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Is it the butcher of Haiti?

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 2>What are we doing here?

0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Right? Like?

0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.840
<v Speaker 2>This is not actually a substantively anti American political alliance.

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 2>India is a close American ally, South Africa is a

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.919
<v Speaker 2>close American ally. None of this really makes any sense.

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:49.880
<v Speaker 2>It's not a substantive political alliance. Really, people periodically make

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>noise about it trying to be a substantive political alliance.

0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>But like I mean, like India and China are periodically

0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.640
<v Speaker 2>like at war or like almost at war with each

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 2>other over the border. It's right, these are a bunch

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 2>of countries that absolutely fucking hate each other. It's never

0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 2>been a coherent political project. Lula is trying to turn

0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 2>it into one, but like, I fucking I don't think

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 2>that's gonna work. So, you know, that's sort of what's

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.960
<v Speaker 2>been going on on the front to sort of national resistance.

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.520
<v Speaker 2>But Lula does have you know, a kind of very

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.399
<v Speaker 2>very large and powerful political force behind him domestically to

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 2>resist this. We'll see what happens going forward. It's also

0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 2>worth noting that China has been negotiating with the US

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and their tariff increases, which are supposed to go into effect,

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 2>have been delayed for another ninety days. So we're stuck

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 2>in this holding pattern again. But let's talk about what

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.679
<v Speaker 2>this means for the economy, right, And I think the

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>very short term answer is that I don't think anyone

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.639
<v Speaker 2>really knows, right, Like, the actual macro effects of this

0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 2>are things that we've only just started to see. No

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 2>one's ever really tried to model this out because there's

0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.840
<v Speaker 2>no reason why it whatever happened, you know, And you're

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 2>starting to see things behind the scenes, like medical supplies

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.159
<v Speaker 2>being incredibly difficult to require. You're starting to see a

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>bunch of very very weird items and supply chains become

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 2>increasingly difficult to find. But again, the supply chains are

0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 2>going to break down in ways that we just don't

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>really understand. What is going to happen, And what has

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.800
<v Speaker 2>started to happen is inflation is increasing. I want to

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.280
<v Speaker 2>sort of again review our kind of inflation theory, right,

0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.880
<v Speaker 2>which is largely derived from our friends as strange matter,

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of supply chain theory of inflation. Their usis of

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.600
<v Speaker 2>inflation is that, like, it's not set by just supply

0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.679
<v Speaker 2>and demand. It's set by cost plus markup. Because you know,

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.240
<v Speaker 2>price is not set by like an autonomous thing called

0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.639
<v Speaker 2>the market. Price is set by like a guy with

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.719
<v Speaker 2>like a price gun. Right, It's directly set by people.

0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 2>And the way that those people set the price is

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, the cost of acquiring the item, plus and

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.719
<v Speaker 2>markup for their profit. Now out, One of the sort

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 2>of fundamental like insights here is that price is sort

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.880
<v Speaker 2>of sticky until it isn't, right, which is that like, okay,

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.359
<v Speaker 2>So the actual thing that controls price is sort of

0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 2>like how pissed off consumers get at price increases, but

0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:20.239
<v Speaker 2>also comma that is also very very much tied to brand, right,

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 2>And if you raise your prices and consumers get pissed,

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.639
<v Speaker 2>you even if you drop them again, that doesn't necessarily

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.159
<v Speaker 2>mean those people will come back, right, So you know

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of times when they when they when there's

0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 2>price increases, companies try to eat it. And that's and

0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.120
<v Speaker 2>that's been what's happening with a lot of these things,

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.119
<v Speaker 2>right where at each point in the supply chain, people

0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:38.880
<v Speaker 2>are you know, people are having to sort of pay

0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.719
<v Speaker 2>for the tariff parts, right, and and when someone has

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 2>to pay for the tariff, they increase their prices that

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 2>they sell it to the next person in the supply chain.

0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.120
<v Speaker 2>The next person's supply chin increases their prices right now.

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:51.719
<v Speaker 2>So the way that these terraffs play out, right, is

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 2>that each person in the supply chain is doing costless

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 2>mark up, but their costs are going up. So your

0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.480
<v Speaker 2>options are either you sell it at the same price

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.760
<v Speaker 2>and you reduce the amount of markup you're getting, which

0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 2>is reducing the raw profit you're taking in, or you

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 2>raise your prices. And these things are trying to not

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 2>raise their prices, and part of this is from direct

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 2>political pressure, right like Trump has been threatening companies to

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:18.640
<v Speaker 2>not raise their prices from the tariffs. But prices are

0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 2>starting to increase. And as this goes on, and as

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 2>more and more teriffs come into effect, that this becomes

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.439
<v Speaker 2>more and more difficult to evade the tariffs. The prices

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 2>are going to keep increasing because they're driven by these

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.240
<v Speaker 2>supply chain price increases. So you know cost is going

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.639
<v Speaker 2>to go up. It is going to have absolutely devastating

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.800
<v Speaker 2>impacts on workers across the world, primarily not in the US.

0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.680
<v Speaker 2>But the workers who are in these export oriented economies

0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 2>are going to have to deal with just the absolute

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 2>horror of large scale economic collapse. You know what, who

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>else hopefully doesn't have to deal with the absolute horror

0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:54.840
<v Speaker 2>of larger scale economic collapse. It is the products and

0:22:54.840 --> 0:23:08.919
<v Speaker 2>services to support this podcast. We are back now. The

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 2>thing I want to close this episode on is not

0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 2>actually a look at the economy, because I think, you know,

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:17.840
<v Speaker 2>we kind of don't know exactly what's going to happen

0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.439
<v Speaker 2>with the economy other than bad. But there is something

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.119
<v Speaker 2>that I think we can look at that's been broadly

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.480
<v Speaker 2>ignored or miscovered, which is what these tariffs say about

0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.720
<v Speaker 2>the nature of the state. And I think what's happening

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 2>is that we're seeing a fundamental change in the way

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 2>that the state functions from the previous sort of neoliberal

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:44.360
<v Speaker 2>regime to this like just really openly fascist one. And

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I think the most clear example of this isn't necessarily

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.040
<v Speaker 2>the terroriffs, so they are a pretty clear example. It's

0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:57.160
<v Speaker 2>this extremely weird like extortion agreement reached between Trump, AMD

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 2>and Nvidia. And to read this from CBS quote, US

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:04.240
<v Speaker 2>chip makers in Nvidia and AMD will pay the US

0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 2>government fifteen percent of revenue generated by sales of their

0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:10.439
<v Speaker 2>AI chips in China. A White House official confirmed to

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 2>CPS News this is just a shakedown, right. You know,

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.160
<v Speaker 2>this is part of a negotiating process by which originally

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>AMD and and Video are going to be banned for

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 2>selling the AI chips to China. And in order to

0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.480
<v Speaker 2>be allowed to sell these ships to China, Trump was like, okay,

0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>if you want to do that, give us like thirty

0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 2>percent of your revenue, when they were like, okay, what

0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 2>if we did fifteen percent? Right, this is just a shakedown.

0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.400
<v Speaker 2>And you know it's been described as such all over

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.679
<v Speaker 2>the press, but they're missing something fundamental here, which is

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.440
<v Speaker 2>that the state fundamentally is just a shakedown.

0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.040
<v Speaker 2>The analysis of Trump isn't from the sort of critical

0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.280
<v Speaker 2>press has been to view it as corruption. And it

0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely corrupt, right, Like, no question about this. It

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 2>is unbelievably corrupt. Like we have people just giving the

0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 2>president blocks of fucking gold with an eye I phone

0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 2>embedded into them. Right, it's it's hideous, open corruption. But

0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:09.840
<v Speaker 2>analysis that looks at the Trumpe administration as corruption of

0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.919
<v Speaker 2>an ideal type, right, that looks at it as the

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:17.119
<v Speaker 2>transformation of the state into something that it fundamentally isn't

0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 2>That kind of analysis is just wrong. The state has

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 2>always and has always only been the localized monopoly on

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 2>the legitimate use of force. Right, That's all it is.

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:31.439
<v Speaker 2>That's all it's ever been. Everything we know about the

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 2>state today, right from the legal system to education, to roads,

0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>to environmental regulation to the welfare state, are all just

0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:42.080
<v Speaker 2>functions that were tacked onto the core monopoly on violence,

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 2>either as part of a carrot and stick gambit to

0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:47.919
<v Speaker 2>maintain control of population or simply as a concession to

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:53.040
<v Speaker 2>popular force. You can just have a state that is

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of guys with guns who rule purely by

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.040
<v Speaker 2>fiat and have control over an area. That is a state.

0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Everything else that we think of as being part of

0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.119
<v Speaker 2>a state is tacked on, and trump Ism as a

0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 2>political force has simply reverted the state back to a

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:09.560
<v Speaker 2>pure mode of extraction. Right, the state is men with

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.600
<v Speaker 2>guns who take shit from you to pay for those guns.

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 2>And it becomes breathtakingly clear that this is, you know,

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.600
<v Speaker 2>how the state is functioning. Try and Trump administration, because

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.399
<v Speaker 2>the Trump administration has been slashing benefits while handing tax

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 2>breaks and giant government contracts worth billions of dollars to

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the tech elite, and they've been spending tens of billions

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.679
<v Speaker 2>of dollars, you know, to hand to the men's with

0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 2>guns and to recruit new men with guns for the

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:37.719
<v Speaker 2>mass deportation regime. Right, this is just a pure version

0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 2>of the state as an extraction regime, as a regime

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:42.920
<v Speaker 2>that fucking takes money for you a gunpoint to buy

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 2>more men with guns so it can take more money

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.920
<v Speaker 2>from you. Trump Ism imagines that you can collect this

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>money to pay for the apparatus of violence and terror

0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:54.080
<v Speaker 2>from just pure extortion of foreigners in the working class,

0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:56.320
<v Speaker 2>you know. And we talked about this a bit at

0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:58.840
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, right, this is part of why they want

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 2>to do tariffs, as they think can replace the income tax.

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 2>You know. The income tax is just like absolutely despised

0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.480
<v Speaker 2>by the extra state elements of the ruling class because

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:11.680
<v Speaker 2>rich people hate paying taxes. But there just isn't enough

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:14.919
<v Speaker 2>capital to run a state like that with unemploying some

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:17.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of like mmts money printing, which is alienated a

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:21.200
<v Speaker 2>huge part of from Sosterity coalition because his quote unquote

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:24.280
<v Speaker 2>deficit reduction stuff hasn't actually reduced the deficit. So the

0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 2>people who like really really care about that shit ideologically

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 2>are pissed. But also on a fundamental level, this is

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>already how most city governments operate, right. They are enormous

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>police budgets extracted at gunpoint, either from the city council

0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:41.560
<v Speaker 2>directly or directly from the working class, from fees and

0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 2>fines and tickets, like just leveled at working class people directly.

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 2>And this is something that is a little different from

0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:54.120
<v Speaker 2>how previous regimes of neoliberalism has functions, because those previous

0:27:54.119 --> 0:27:57.119
<v Speaker 2>regimes of neoliberalism did a lot of these same things,

0:27:57.160 --> 0:28:00.199
<v Speaker 2>but they were run through regimes of debt extraction, right.

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:03.280
<v Speaker 2>It was you know, it was the imf right coming

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.960
<v Speaker 2>into your country and being like, okay, if you want

0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.160
<v Speaker 2>to pay back these loans that this dictator took out, right,

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 2>you're going to have to like sell your entire fucking

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.960
<v Speaker 2>working class into pe andage so that your entire economy

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 2>is going to be reoriented towards paying this debt back.

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 2>But again, that was debt extraction, base and finance based.

0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Trumpism wants to take out the middleman and just straight

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 2>up set give me all your money if you want

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 2>to live. But this is not a particularly smart strategy.

0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a reason that the state takes on other guises

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 2>than just a man with a gun asking for your wallet.

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:40.760
<v Speaker 2>A more literal regime, a more direct regime, a regime

0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:43.560
<v Speaker 2>where the violence is just out in the open, invites

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>more literal resistance than a sort of symbolic regime, or

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>a regime that operates through more principles. All regimes of accumulation,

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 2>of dispossession of resources, taking by violence to produce more

0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 2>violence come to an end, brick by brick and stone

0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.000
<v Speaker 2>by stone. Trumpism too will be torn to the ground

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 2>by the hands of the people who had thought it

0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:07.440
<v Speaker 2>could exploit forever this husband It could happen Here.

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 1>It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:16.480
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.120
<v Speaker 1>coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:23.200
<v Speaker 2>You listen to podcasts.

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>You can now find sources for it could Happen here,

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:28.440
<v Speaker 1>listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.