1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's our weekly listener Male segment. 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: We have some adventures had for you, some harrowing ones, 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: some disturbing stories. Parts of this segment spoiler alert may 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: not be suitable for all audiences. There are some at 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: times graphic descriptions of violence here. But we have something 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: that goes to the edge of science. There's something that 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: has dare I say, some shades of of whim Hoff 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: involved uh And and Matt and our previous segment this 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: weekend Strange News. We got so rabbit holed that we 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: only did like to really did two topics were a 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: little deepera than than we normally do, but we ended 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: up with you saying you're volunteering to hold over your 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: strange news for the next segment. With that in mind, sir, 22 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: do you want to kick us off on listener mail. 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: This is just because I know this is a story 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: that fascinates us both. Sure, this is, as you said, 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: a story more so in a lot of ways than 26 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: a topic. So let's just let's listen to the story 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about it. Gentlemen, Hello, First, let 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: me get this out of the way. My name is David. 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm calling you from Indianapolis, Indiana, and you definitely have 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: my permission to use my voice or anything you want 31 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form on the air or otherwise. 32 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: I'm currently listening to your classic episode on the Future 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: of Death, and I have a few things I'd like 34 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: to throw in the pot. In the nineties, I was 35 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: on a camping trip and long story short, was exposed 36 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: to extreme high both thermia. I died. I was dead 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: for almost fourteen minutes. UM had to be airlifted out, 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: had to have my heart restarted. UM slave scars from 39 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: the paddles. That's fun. But the point of this story 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: is Um. I was raised Catholic in a very religious 41 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: family and had already kind of eskewed that whole belief system. 42 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: But the sum total of my experience being dead was 43 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing like I'd love to tell you that there 44 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: was some great light at the end of the tunnel, 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: or I saw all my relatives and it was all happy, 46 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: good lucky, go Tom, but it basically for me at least, 47 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: I have memories of getting to freeze to death and 48 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: then memories of waking up in the hospital, but nothing 49 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: in between. Since then, I have gone on a very 50 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: long and serious, lifelong journey with psychedelics, mostly solocybin mushrooms. 51 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: The further Explorers experience, and I keep getting the same 52 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: answer is that, yeah, um, once you're gone, you're gone, 53 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: but that's okay. You're still connected to everything that's alive 54 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: while you're alive, and just be cool and make the 55 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: best out of it. Why you can treat the earth 56 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: and the creatures and everything around you, even the people, 57 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: the best you can, and that's all we can do, 58 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: because that's all you've got while you're here. I'm sorry 59 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: if that's bleak, but that's just my experience. Also, I 60 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: just want to tell you that I have three favorite podcasts. 61 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: You're one of them. I listened to you every single 62 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: day so thank you for all your hard war gentlemen, 63 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: and I certainly wish you the best in a wonderful 64 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: new year. Who's peace peace to you. David Man, well awesome, 65 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much for telling us your actual death experience. UM, 66 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: my goodness, you know you on that episode. Gosh, Ben, 67 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: we might have to draw our own memories here are 68 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: talking about the future of death episode. But you know, 69 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: we've we've talked many times about near death experiences that 70 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: have been reported. We've talked about, you know, concepts of 71 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: what and after like life could be, and various religions, 72 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: various cultures throughout the world. UM, I have to say 73 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: it's I don't know, it's weirdly your your message, David 74 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: is reassuring in a lot of ways. It's also, like 75 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: you said, a bit bleak. But I like it that 76 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: you ended with your current and future exploration of death 77 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: and life. Um, through the use of psychedelics that we 78 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: talked about just last time on listener Mail. I would 79 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: just have to say, I've read a lot about hypothermia. 80 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: I've never experienced hypothermia, and that is not something I 81 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: ever want to go through. Our wish upon anybody else, 82 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: Mike it seems awful. Yeah, it's I'll be honest with you, 83 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: it blows. It's not it's not fun. But there's a 84 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: lot of science here. Oh god, oh man. Okay, so 85 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: you guys stop me. It gets too weird with it, okay. Uh. 86 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: First off, there's pretty strong evidence that humans were once 87 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: upon a time able to hybernate. Uh, we don't see it. 88 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm just saying we don't see it so often now, 89 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: but that species had a form of hibernation or hibernative 90 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: a churchify the word hibernative capacity for for some time. 91 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: There was a paper just recently published called Hybernation in 92 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: Hominans from at A Puerica, Spain, half a million years ago. 93 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: And this, uh, this makes a pretty solid case that 94 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: human beings were once upon a time able to hibernate. Also, 95 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: we if you look at just the body, uh, we 96 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: have the ability to do it. And their documented cases 97 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: of people passing that bug limit. Right, Like, remember all 98 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: the ideas like your brain cannot have ox or your 99 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: brain is deprived of oxygen for x amount of minutes, 100 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: you will inevitably have cognitive damage some sort. But this guy, 101 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: you came back, David, you came back after fourteen minutes. 102 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: How is that possible? It's because of how quickly you froze, 103 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: and there is I'm just speculating here, but given that 104 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: we know some of the scientific the neurocognitive basis of 105 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: what's called the in d E or near death experience, 106 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: is it possible that you just froze so quickly that 107 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: your brain could not experience that Like like we can 108 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: map the parts of the brain that are active and 109 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, sparking and collaboring with each other. When people 110 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: have in your death experience, the that's the left hemisphere 111 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: of your brain will cause the type one thing altered 112 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: sense of time, feeling like you're flying, kind of like 113 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: when you're asleep or you're falling asleep and you feel witless. 114 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: And then type two the right hemisphere when you see 115 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: and tear in corporeal intangible things or sounds and music. 116 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: So maybe maybe, without knowing more about your situation, maybe 117 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: the temperature drop just happened so suddenly that your brain 118 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: went into flash freeze. So maybe that's what happened. Yeah, yeah, 119 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: I and we're not sure, but that would no, no, 120 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: thank you. If you go on any sites you can 121 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: you can look at the different stages of hypothermia, and 122 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's just anytime your body gets below 123 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: nine degrees fahrenheit. I believe it's thirty five celsius to 124 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: anybody outside of the US UM. And you you know, 125 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like that big of a change, right, 126 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: We walk around at like ninety eight degrees ninety eight 127 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: point six on average, just dropping three degrees four degrees essentially, 128 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: can you mean internal temperature, not your exterior internal internal temperature, 129 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: the the gooey stuff that's inside you. Uh, it's the 130 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: same gradation is like a really severe fever, and it's 131 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: just a couple of degrees, you know, sure, but well, 132 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: and then it goes down to something to something that 133 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: David probably experienced, which is probably in the lower to 134 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: mid eighties, maybe even lower, lower than eighty degrees fahrenheit celsius. 135 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: That's when you have really really dangerous situation going on 136 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: where your heart likely will stop if you're exposed to 137 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: or if your body remains at that low temperature. And man, 138 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: can only imagine, I'd love to hear more about what happened, 139 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: like how how it occurred, David, so we can have 140 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: kind of a cautionary tale for all of us who 141 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: like to go camping even when it's kind of cold outside. 142 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: And you're really lucky too, because if and again, David, 143 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: I'm just freestyling a bit when I'm just tracing the 144 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: possible interconnections between sudden oblivion right at, what we understand 145 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: the brain to do in many, but not all keys 146 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: is near death experiences. Uh the lights which just may 147 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: have flipped too quickly because of because of the plummeted temperature. Um. 148 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: One thing, however, you're very very fortunate in that you 149 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: have not sustained heavy kidney damage because a lot of 150 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: times when people are like I suspect what may have 151 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: possibly happened is that for a time your body entered 152 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: a state of torpor, an emergency state of hibernation. They 153 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: are documented cases of this happening. One of the big 154 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: dangers then is if someone enters this state and they're 155 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: brought back, there can be extreme damage to various bodily systems. 156 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: So you know, all of us, we're so glad you 157 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: are alive, man, and even more so that you have 158 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: been taking this journey into thanatology, or the acknowledgement of mortality, 159 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: which is one of the great questions. Right, that's an 160 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: answered in a universally accepted way, isn't it. We always 161 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: have to say that, right, The question of mortality and 162 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: death in the afterlife is unanswered in a universally accepted way. 163 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: There are many, many people who feel like they definitely 164 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: know the answer, but there's not one that everybody agrees with. 165 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: There probably won't be for a while. Um. But with 166 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: all that being said, you know, do you guys think 167 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: it makes you wonder do you think the manner of 168 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: trauma impacts the end of life experience? Well, it's it, dude. 169 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: Now that is a great question because it all lies 170 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: in whether or not the brain itself is has any 171 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: part in, you know, taking you to the other side, 172 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: or if it's completely separate. Is it a soul thing? 173 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: You know, is it a separate entity from your body 174 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: that actually moves on? If there is an afterlife? Or 175 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: are used experiencing brain death like and it happens at 176 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: varying you know, speeds, something like freezing to death is 177 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: more of a slow process than say, getting a bullet 178 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: to the head, right, I mean, so you have time 179 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: to experience your brain like shutting down and that must 180 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: be a pretty psychedelic thing to experience, whether or not 181 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: you could call that transitioning out of your body and 182 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: a soul type situation either way, a slower death like 183 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: freezing or even drowning, would I mean you you'd eventually 184 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: pass out, I imagine, But what would imagine that would 185 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: be a much more um, I guess, synesthesic kind of 186 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: experience where I would imagine that everything would become very 187 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: vivid and you would probably really start to think in 188 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: a way almost akin to like an acid trip or 189 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: something where your your neurons are firing differently as they're 190 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: basically suffocating. We we talked about is it hypoxia where 191 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: lack of oxygen. Lack of oxygen causes you to hallucinate 192 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: and the experience a lot of these things where you 193 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: eventually do uh die. I would say drowning is a 194 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: very different experience from just you know, having a lack 195 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: of box agen due to altitude or something. But yeah, yeah, yeah, 196 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: it can definitely cause louc nations in seniors. And it's 197 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: not just feeling like you can't breathe for a while. 198 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: From what I understand, it's like system wide lack of 199 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: oxygen at the tissue level in your brain exactly exactly. 200 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: But the ultimate question there been is like, how do 201 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: we figure out if there if there wasn't afterlife and 202 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: you were setting out to prove it, as countless individuals 203 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: have over the course of centuries and millennia trying to 204 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: prove that an afterlife exists and what it may or 205 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: may not be. We don't have the tools or the methods, 206 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: the physical methods to test something like that that is 207 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: either occurring deep within the brain somewhere or you know, 208 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: in a realm that is currently inaccessible to us, if 209 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: there is some kind of actual place, right, Um, I 210 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: don't know. That's God. I just want to I just 211 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: want to explore this topic more immortality, the search for 212 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: the afterlife, all of that stuff, and I want to 213 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: hear more from David. I want to hear more from you, dude. 214 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: I agree. Uh, last question, what's the oh flat lighters? 215 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: Do you guys want to do a flat lighters thing? 216 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: What do you go? What are you guys doing later? No? 217 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no no no. You're talking about 218 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: the seminole key for Sutherlandes film with what is it? 219 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: The woman who played made Marian and Robin Hood, Prince 220 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: of Thieves. I can't remember her name, Elizabeth Mastrandtonio. I 221 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: always loved her name. I mean, you guys don't know 222 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: I feel about celebrity. But the but the idea of 223 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: flatlighter I think is is is great. I would be 224 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: down to try it. Okay, what, okay, I'll volunteer. Den Wrong, 225 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: it was Kevin Bacon and Julie Roberts. Sorry, god, wait, 226 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: Ki for Sutherland was in. It was yeah, yeah, him too, 227 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: But it was Kevin kee for Sutherland. Kevin Bacon and 228 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: Julia Roberts. Oh, okay, a pretty woman fame all right, 229 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: So well, I don't want to be flipped. I am 230 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: seriously interested in this because this research. You know, David, 231 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: it may be worth your time, depend on your inclination, 232 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: and may be worth your time to reach out with 233 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: your experience to some researchers currently because people are still 234 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to get folks safely to 235 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: Mars or to other places beyond our moon and our planet. 236 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Uh and frankly, we need all the help we can get, 237 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: so you may you may be able to contribute to 238 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: this research that's ongoing, which I think it's a beautiful 239 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: thing to do. So if you're so inclined, Yeah, dude, 240 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: help us develop stasis pods. Man, we need those, you 241 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: know we need them, David, Let's do it. Man. You're right, Matt, 242 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: so many things to ask about. Can we freeze people 243 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: and bring them back and a reproducible, scalable way. Right? Well? Yeah, 244 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: and and if if what David experienced was actually the 245 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: coma when you mentioned it, but the coma like or 246 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: it is a coma, but it is a death like coma, 247 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: very much to the point where the body doesn't seem 248 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: to be breathing, does it need to be doing anything. 249 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: It appears to be death, but it's actually a coma 250 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: that the brain has put the body into rather than 251 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: actual death. Is that what experienced? Or was it full 252 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: body death? I wonder how similar they are. I wonder 253 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: how similar those two things are, because I honestly don't 254 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: know what Princess Bride since I'm doing movie references. It's 255 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: only mostly dead. Yeah, yeah, oh god, but now you 256 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: know there's nothing like that kind of experience. I'm sure 257 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: you'll agree, David. To make you realize what a precious 258 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: and ephemeral gift life itself is at this point. And 259 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: interestingly that you know, the psychedelic experience is often referred 260 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: to as ego death, where you are losing the sense 261 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: of self for a time and kind of experiencing this 262 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: disassociation or you're able to kind of take a step 263 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: back and see the big picture because you're not in 264 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: your own head anymore. And that's I just think it's 265 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: interesting the term death applied there as well. Wow. So 266 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: uh so, do yourself a favorite, get out of your head. 267 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: Listen to this ad break and we will be right back. 268 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: We have returned and now we are taking a turn 269 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: into very dark water, something that may be familiar to 270 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: longtime listeners from YouTube days or from our episode Cannibals 271 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: Fact and Fiction. We we recently heard from Lucas. Here's 272 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: what he had to say. Hey, it's my name is 273 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: Lucas Love. Listen to your show and you can use 274 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: my voice. I wanted to let you guys know about 275 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: Japanese cannon hole. He I don't remember everything, but he 276 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: was in France. He killed a lady and ate her 277 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: over several days. I don't know if he tortured her 278 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: as well over those days, but um, he was tried 279 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: in France. I don't remember the specifics, but some kind 280 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: of legal thing happened and he was just kind of 281 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: sent back to Japan. Let go, didn't go to prison 282 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And UM got to Japan and 283 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: they didn't do anything, and so he's a free man 284 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: right now. I don't well, he might have died by now, 285 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: but anyways, have a good day. Thank you so much, Lucas. 286 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: Now this is this is a hell of a switch 287 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: from our first story. In this segment. Uh, the Japanese 288 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: cannibal to whom you offer is is I Sagawa, Saa 289 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: Sagawa is uh self confessed murder catibal and what's known 290 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: as a necrophile. If you haven't heard that word before, 291 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: it means exactly what you think it means. So you're right, Lucas, 292 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: he was. He was in France during the crime. He 293 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: was a student at the Sorbonne in June of leven 294 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: while he was thirty two years old. Uh, he murdered 295 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,239 Speaker 1: and then later consumed parts of the body of his 296 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: classmate Renee heartfelt. Uh. He's a diseased, unclean individual and 297 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: in my opinion, should not have been allowed to live However, 298 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: his family had a lot of pull. They were powerful. 299 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: His father was quite wealthy, so he had lawyers for 300 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: his defense. After he was he was caught trying to 301 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: dump the remains of the body in the lake um 302 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: after he had kept it and was committing these various, 303 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: these various troubling acts, abhorrent acts. So he was held 304 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: for two years waiting trial while the back room politics 305 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: of international corruption were in full swing. He's eventually found 306 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: legally insane, unfit to stand trial by a French judge, 307 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: and so he's ordered to be held in a mental institution. 308 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: However he was he was deported to Japan, probably another 309 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: finger of his wealthy father on the scale there, and 310 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: he was committed to a psychiatric hospital, matso Zawa Hospital 311 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: in Tokyo. And then the psychologist who examined him there 312 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: said that he was not insane, that it was called 313 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: like he was aware, he knew what do he's doing, 314 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: he knew what he's doing was wrong. He was motivated 315 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: by sexual impulses, and he also had the presence of 316 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: mind to plan the murder and later degradation and mutilation 317 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: of the body in Sigawa, checks himself out of the 318 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: hospital in August twelve, and he has been free since 319 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: that time. In Japan, he has been a speaker at 320 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: various events. Uh. He appeared in UM think of like 321 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: kind of a skin Amax pornographic film. He wrote books 322 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: about his crime. Uh, he for a time wrote restaurant reviews. 323 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: Believe it or not, this is all true. This is 324 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: not even digging deep into his case. This is just 325 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: what happened. He tried to teach at a French language 326 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: school and almost got hired, but luckily someone had presence 327 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: of mind um not to do this. Uh. Segawa parents 328 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: passed away in two thousand and five. You can see 329 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: that he made a very self important and self pitying 330 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: interview in Vice in two thousand and eleven. This guy 331 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: is one of the guys on my list. I won't 332 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: talked about much on air, but he is on it. Uh. 333 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: He is currently alive. He's in his seventies. He will 334 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: never see a day in court again. He will never 335 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: see justice. He is unrepentant. He does meet the legal 336 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: requirements to stand trial as a murderer. It was a 337 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: miscarriage of justice in France. Everything you've heard in this 338 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: story is true. If you would like to learn more, 339 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: I suggest you not. I suggest you not eat. But 340 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: there is a documentary that's come out called Cannaba c 341 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: A N I B A. It's a French US production. Uh, 342 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: that was scheduled to be released on July nineteen, so 343 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: pre pandemic. Just to let you know how people interacted 344 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: with this documentary When it was screened at Venice Film 345 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: in a ton of the crowd walked out. This is 346 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: a evil dude who did everything he said he did 347 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: and he's never going to see a dayangel. Yeah, you know, 348 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: I think the worst part, No, that's not the worst part. 349 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: The worst part is what he did and how he's 350 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: acted over all the years. The next worst part is 351 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: how much celebrity he experienced after doing this grizzly act 352 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: and how you know there's so much art made about 353 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: him because of how well known the story became, of 354 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: how grizzly the whole thing was. And then correct me 355 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. Isn't he the guy that ended up 356 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: publishing a story or draw What? What was it? What 357 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: did he do? He has he has art out? Uh, 358 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: he was he was in some adults entertainment if he 359 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: called it entertainment. He wrote memoirs called in the Fog. 360 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: He's written a couple of just terrible novels. His novels 361 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,479 Speaker 1: aren't good. Just to add that on there, it might 362 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: figure his novels are trash as well. It's pretty interesting 363 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: when you google him, you know how like public figures 364 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: come up with a little sidebar and google he is 365 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: listed as a public orator. Really yeah, no way that like, 366 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: that's that's his little subhead. And then of course it 367 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: goes into the cannibal stuff. But yeah, I mean, and 368 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 1: it's as it says it all it's you know, it's 369 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: it's just an eggs are pulled from Wikipedia. But yeah, 370 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: he's listed as a public orator, not a serial killer, cannibal, necrophile, 371 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: although that is on the first line of his bio, 372 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: so it's there. He's not a serial killer that we 373 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: know of. Oh, fair enough, He's just a coward, Uh, 374 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: with a diseased mind. You should have Luga go been dead. Uh. 375 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: Currently he's fed through a tube into his stomach. Is 376 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: health is ailing. He has chronic diabetes. He has to 377 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: change hospitals a lot because of his um Because of 378 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: his physical health, his siblings are alive. His brother June 379 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: said that the guy still gets the urge to quote 380 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: edo woman every so often, and people thought people had like, 381 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, forgotten about him because he was out of 382 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: the news, and these cannibal stories pop up every so often. 383 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: Remember there was the earlier um European resident I want 384 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: to say, maybe German or Austrian who consensually consumed part 385 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: of someone's body. They took out an ad um. This 386 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: is different because this is this is homicide. There is 387 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: no obviously, it's where that we even have to say this. 388 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: There's no consent um. The biggest conspiracy is how how 389 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: he got away, you know what I mean. There had 390 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: to be bribery involved because ordinarily someone like this would 391 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: not would not have been extradited. They if they were 392 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: alive today, they would be imprisoned, not in a psychiatric hospital, 393 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: not in an assisted care facility or something like that. 394 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: But he became, you know, oddly enough, there's something listeners 395 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: in Japan. Maybe you can you can tell us a 396 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: little bit more about But he became, oddly enough, a 397 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: a kind of infamous celebrity in the country. You know. Yeah, 398 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: there's a list of documentaries profiling him and the names 399 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: kind of say at all. Cannibal Superstar from Swedish television 400 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: from Excuse Me for Living from Channel four in the UK, 401 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: The Cannibal that Walked Free from Channel five in the UK. 402 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: Interview with a cannibal from Vice from and Cannaba the 403 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: film that you were talking about. Yeah, yeah, and of 404 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: course you know or heart vote condolences to the family 405 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: of there's the victim. Um obviously could tell I am 406 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: not and I think, being objective in this case, have 407 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: been fascinated with this person for a while just because 408 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: they got away. They completely got away. There are no 409 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: consequences what they took, a vacation in a psychiatric hospital 410 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: for a time. Um, you know, honestly, Lucas, there's not 411 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: a ton more to say. I think we looked at 412 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: him a little bit in our earlier work on cannibals. 413 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: Happy to report that the vast majority of cannibalism that 414 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: occurs in the human species currently is going to be 415 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: either symbolic cannibalism, or it's going to be ritualistic spiritualized cannibalism. 416 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: Aggressive non consensual acts of cannibalism like this are the 417 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: ducts of two things. Really, one survival, cannibalism, picture the 418 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: daughter party or the rugby team and alive or two. Uh, 419 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: the acts of animals that should be put down in 420 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: my opinion, and I'm not saying like I know as 421 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: a very hardline stance to take. And I generally have 422 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: problems with the way the death penalty is instituted. The 423 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: death penalty in Japan, by the way, it's real quick 424 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: on this one is interesting. If you get death row 425 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: in Japan and they do have the death penalty, they 426 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: lock you up and they don't tell you when you're 427 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: going to ride the lightning. They just one day they 428 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: come in and they wow, that's almost a form of 429 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: psychological torture there, And um, yeah, yeah, but by design, 430 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure. I have to say this. This makes me 431 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: think of this. This whole story has elements of some 432 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: of two films that I really enjoyed, just the idea 433 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: of there is something to be said about how a 434 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: person like this could becomes such a celebrity type. Right. Um, 435 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: And there is a film from two. It's a Belgian 436 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: film called Man Bites Dog that's about a serial killer 437 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: that's followed around by a film crew and it's sort 438 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: of like filmed like a documentary where they kind of 439 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: like film all of his like his crimes and then 440 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: eventually become complicit in it, because that is kind of 441 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: what the media is. They sort of can become complicit in, 442 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, elevating figures like this to that kind of 443 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: almost like uh demigod status. Um. And then another one 444 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: that I think is pretty divisive but but does a 445 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: similar thing is Natural Born Killers, uh the Oliver Stone 446 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: movie UM from right around the same time. I think 447 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: he was right around three. But that's also an excellent 448 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: commentary on like how the media can kind of like 449 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: create this blood lust in uh the audience and like 450 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: people who really like live vicariously through these types of things. 451 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: So on the last note here with Segawa, there was 452 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: interesting observation by one Makoto Autonomy, who was an associate 453 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: professor of Media and Communications at Hokkaido bunk Kill University. 454 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: Uh Bhutanoby says the following, which is an interesting snapshot 455 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: into Japanese society, and for listeners who reside in Japan 456 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: or if you speak the language, I would like to 457 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: hear your insight on this. Watanoby says, Sigawa was never 458 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: forced to take responsibility for his actions, but because he 459 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: was never found guilty because he was insane. Remember then, 460 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: in the eyes of many Japanese, he was not responsible. 461 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: The sense was that it could be overlooked and things 462 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: could go on smoothly. Nobody wanted to raise a voice 463 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: against a decision to hire him. How interesting and how 464 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: somewhat um how how different that is in comparison to 465 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: US society. There's some crimes for which you can be 466 00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: accused that will ruin everything, uh, your associated lively and 467 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: so on, even if they later turn out to be 468 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: categorically untrue. And we're not taught. I know everybody's mind 469 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: jumps to sex related crimes at that point. Sure, fine, 470 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: but we're also talking about crimes like embezzlement and so on. 471 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: This guy admitted that they killed a living person, eight 472 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: parts of their body and defiled their corpse, and everybody saying, oh, well, 473 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: I guess he wasn't legally convicted, so we can just 474 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: move on. We wouldn't want to discriminate against them. This 475 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: is the kind of world we live in today, folks, 476 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: and this is this is one infamous example. But again, 477 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: not to dunk on Japan, there are other cases of 478 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: people like this. The issue is that they usually when 479 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: they're caught, they go to jail and they go to prison, 480 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: or they take their own life because they know what's 481 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: on the way. Uh. This person is at the end 482 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: of their life, and we are at the end of 483 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: this segment. It can't tam quickly enough in both case 484 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: is in my opinion. We're gonna pause for a word 485 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. We'll be back with more listener mail, 486 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: and we're back with our final listener mail segments of 487 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: today's episode. This one comes from Amy Uh and I 488 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: think the subject line says it all all right, pipeline, gaming, YouTube, TikTok, 489 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: hi gang, love the show. Thank you for all of 490 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: your hard work and research. I was chatting with my 491 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: college aged nineteen year old daughter the other night with 492 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: all the news about the Capital riot. We were discussing 493 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: all right and where the heck they came from? UM. 494 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: She mentioned something that is apparently very well known in 495 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: her age group about the alt right pipeline from gaming 496 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: to YouTube to TikTok and the algorithm that connects or 497 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: channels typically white young men to these groups. Have you 498 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: looked into this or do you plan to UM. I 499 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: think that the short answer is this absolutely deserves we have. 500 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: We've talked about the YouTube algorithm and then the way 501 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: that can be very it can create some very interesting 502 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: results because, like you said, Ben, either on this episode 503 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: or in the last one we recorded today, it is 504 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: the job of sites like Twitter, like Reddit, like Facebook 505 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: to keep people tangled in their ecosystem for as long 506 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: as possible, so it behooves them to give people recommendations 507 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: that are engaging. Uh. And oftentimes divisive content is engaging, 508 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: whether you're just looking at it from kind of like, uh, 509 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: what's like a rubber neck kind of you know, um, 510 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: just absolutely curiosity kind of perspective, or which is how 511 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: a lot of this starts. Let's not forget, but then 512 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: you go down the rabbit hole after rabbit hole after 513 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: rabbit hole, and before you know it, you could be indoctrinated. Um. 514 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: And it turns out this is absolutely true. UM, that 515 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: all right presences We know for a fact they've used 516 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: the Internet with great success for radicalizing people in gathering 517 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: followers and message boards and things like stormfront websites to 518 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: various list serves and message boards and things on four 519 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: chan and eight chan the kind of get pushed off 520 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: of more traditional platforms like Facebook. But we also know 521 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: that Facebook has cops to you know, being less having 522 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: not enough oversight over these kinds of groups coming up. 523 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: And now we're seeing the tide really turn on that 524 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: with what's happened in Washington at the Capitol and now 525 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: all of these kind of hate groups being the platform 526 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: or things like we talked about in the last episode 527 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: like parlor Um and uh it. It begs the question 528 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: kind of like, well, where are they going now, what's 529 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: the next step? How do they kind of infiltrate these 530 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: other things without being so avert about it? Uh And 531 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: the answer is exactly what Amy is talking about. They 532 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: are trying to be a little more sneaky about it, 533 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: and they're going on places like TikTok. TikTok. You may say, 534 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: I thought that was for like slip syncs and funny 535 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: dance videos, and yeah, of course that's absolutely the bread 536 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: and butter of it. But the thing about TikTok it's 537 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: interesting is you can have a relatively small like following 538 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: like my daughter, for example, loves TikTok and she has 539 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: maybe like a thousand followers, which is a lot. I mean, like, 540 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: she's a twelve years so old, you know, I think 541 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: that's pretty pretty cool. And she is very into it 542 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's a community, and she's like met a 543 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: lot of interesting people her aids that are into cosplay 544 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: and stuff like she is. But even if you only 545 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: have a thousand followers, you can have a video that 546 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: gets circulated to like minded people through this algorithm, and 547 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: they can be viewed hundreds of thousands of times. Typically 548 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: you think of views being associated directly with like how 549 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: many followers do you have? On TikTok, It doesn't quite 550 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: work like that. So there's a really great article on 551 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: um The Statesman The New Statesman rather called how the 552 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: alt right is pivoting to TikTok. And the way they're 553 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: doing it is by putting up memes and little scenes 554 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: that masquerade as this, you know, kind of more traditional 555 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: TikTok content, usually comedy or little skits, and having it 556 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: use veiled language UM that promotes racist, xenophobic or homophobic content. Uh, 557 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: and it's harder for the mods to grab UM. And 558 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. Also places like Instagram, where a 559 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of kind of all right memes are shared things 560 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: like with Pepe the Frog that are like a little 561 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: harder to scrub for they're a little harder to to 562 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: to detect because it's not overtly hate speech, but it 563 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: is painting a picture of like a mindset. Another article 564 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: I read on Vice called how all right memes are 565 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: indoctrinating Generation Z? It's because it creates this thing, this system, 566 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: this cycle where if like a kid sees a meme 567 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: that's in this style with the Peppe the Frog, maybe 568 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: they share it, but then maybe they get called out 569 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: for it, and what does that lead to? That leads 570 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: to shame, that leads to and what a shame lead 571 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: to often anger, resentment of being told what to think, 572 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: being told you know, what to share. And so that 573 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: cycle then can bring these gen Z kids deeper into 574 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: the cycle of indoctrination because they've been called out and 575 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: they feel threatened and it just makes them double down. So, uh, 576 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I actually was texting my daughter have 577 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: you seen racist content on TikTok? And she said, mainly 578 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: in response to other people's content, which should be like 579 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: people of color, cost players of color. That's her thing. 580 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: She's all about this costplay, animal stuff, so she says, 581 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: occasionally she'll see response videos that people will do that 582 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: are like making fun of or demeaning or trying to 583 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: humiliate UM cost players of color, UM or non binary 584 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: or what have you. And because it's such a tight 585 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: knit community, they come to each other's aid, they back 586 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: each other up, they get those people kicked. But she 587 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: she does see it, and I don't know, it's it's 588 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: scary because the Internet is so powerful, information is so powerful, 589 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: and it's such a tender age for a lot of 590 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: these these kids, especially if they're in bad home situations, 591 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: and this is like, you know, giving them some kind 592 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: of solace, some kind of sense of community. You know, 593 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: it's scary, and it's the whole deep platform In conversation, 594 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: it does seem that that works. It seems like when 595 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: these groups like Stormfront, for example, was deep platformed in 596 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: that go Daddy, the popular web serving UM provider, took 597 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: away their their their account UM and they got less 598 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: of a reach as a result. So deep platforming does work, 599 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: even if it's a temporary ban. It means people will 600 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: think twice before sharing stuff like that that got them banned. 601 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: Because people use social media for all kinds of stuff. 602 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a huge part of people's day 603 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: to day lives that nobody wants to lose that privilege. 604 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: So it does work, and I'm all for it. I 605 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: don't know, what do you guys think? There's some really 606 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: interesting stuff coming on a pure research and a couple 607 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: other places that are really looking looking at millennials and 608 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: gen z and comparing the two and just kind of 609 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: their general temperament about a lot of things. And one 610 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: commonality that appears to be increasing is questioning the regularly 611 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: fed narrative in anything, So what what is the official story? Well, I, 612 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: as an individual would choose to look for an alternative 613 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: to that official story. I'm kind of proud of that. 614 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: Maybe we maybe we had a small hand in that. 615 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that feels like that feels like 616 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: a good move right to be able to think critically 617 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: about anything, even if it's the official story that you 618 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: know being told to you. The problem is that it 619 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: makes each individual a little more susceptible to something that 620 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: is alternative, right, like vastly alternative, perhaps maybe a little 621 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: on the edge or or on the fringe. Um, So 622 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: it does seem like people, the younger people who are 623 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: using newer, you know, applications, newer platforms, maybe looking for 624 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: a different kind of story and more way more interested 625 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: in that than anything that you'd see just on the news. 626 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: I think this well said, Matt. One thing you might 627 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: notice this happens in friend groups a lot too, is 628 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: that people like to be Promethean. We want to be 629 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: the person who figures the truth out. We want to 630 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: be the person who brings the light. You've probably had 631 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: those conversations where you know, people are in a contest 632 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: to be the person who knows the thing. Um, that's 633 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 1: that's another iteration of this. I've been doing some digging 634 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: into this, and Amy, I really appreciate your letter here because, uh, 635 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: this is something that warrants an episode. There's really interesting 636 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: research coming out of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. 637 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: They started by breadcrumbing comments on what they called alt 638 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: light videos, which could be gaming sources. Um, Like, let's say, 639 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: for instance, and this is not this is not a 640 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: real example, Let's say there's a magic the gathering channel 641 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: and the person or the personalities hosting that are also 642 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: sort of sliding in some alt light stuff. Right, that's 643 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 1: just the general term for something that might be alternative 644 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: to the the official narrative people here. Well, what this 645 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: research found after analyzing thirty three hundred thousand videos on 646 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: three different YouTube channels. This was a system designed by 647 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: the Anti Defamation League. What they found is that they 648 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: could trace the authors of seventy two million comments on 649 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: about two million videos between May and July of a 650 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: single year. You can read about this in m I 651 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: T Technology Review. And they found that more than twenty 652 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: people who commented on stuff that was like a little 653 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: bit off kilter ten it to drift over to further 654 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: extremes in other videos, and the algorithm of YouTube specifically 655 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: would start to tilt the scales as people searched for 656 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: specific keywords. This work was presented at the Conference on Fairness, 657 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: Accountability and Transparency in Barcelona. But the problem is with 658 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: the research these folks found is they're not sure exactly 659 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: how this process, this pipeline works, at least the YouTube 660 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: piece of it, because YouTube restricts access to recommendation data. 661 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: It's their secret sauce. And if you have experience on 662 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: the creator side of YouTube, like like bat and I 663 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: have done a lot with this, you're well aware of 664 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: just how ardently. YouTube protects that information because they don't 665 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: want people to be able to radically game and break 666 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: the system. But the bills coming do that pipeline thing, 667 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: it is real, Amy, It's not just something that you're uh, 668 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: it's not something that your daughter made up. It is 669 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: very much a real thing. There's quantitative data behind it, 670 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: and it bears further investigation. I would love to make 671 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: this an episode. Thank you so much for writing to us, 672 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: and thank you so much to Lucas and David for 673 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 1: leaving those amazing voicemails and giving us something to talk about. UM. 674 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: Always a pleasure doing these listener mail episodes with the 675 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: best part of the show that is you. That's right, 676 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: you absolutely if you want to be like Lucas, David 677 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: and Amy, check it out. Find us on Twitter or 678 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: Facebook where we're conspiracy stuff. On Instagram, we're conspiracy Stuff show. 679 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: If you want to check us out on YouTube, we 680 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff. Oh yeah, and we hope you are 681 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,439 Speaker 1: swayed by the pipeline our channel. We'll take you down 682 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: at least wait wait, I can't confirm that. I don't 683 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: know what they're doing on YouTube right now, but hopefully 684 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: it's good hopefully you'll enjoy it. You can if you 685 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,359 Speaker 1: don't want to do that stuff, leave us a voicemail. 686 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: That's right. You can call our number. Yeah yeah. If 687 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: you want to participate in a listener mail segment in 688 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: the future, you can call us directly at one eight 689 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. You have 690 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: three minutes. They belong to you. They are your own. 691 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: All that we ask is that you like our illustrious callers. 692 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: Thank you again, Lucas, Thank you again, David, Thank you again, 693 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: Amy for the email. Just let us know whether or 694 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: not we can use your name or your voice on air. 695 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: And also if you want to, if you want to 696 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,399 Speaker 1: hit me up directly with something, feel free to hit 697 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: appen bowl in hs W on Twitter or appen Bowling 698 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram. And if you wish, you can find me 699 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram at how now Nold Brown. And if none 700 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: of that quite bags or badgers, you can always contact 701 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,800 Speaker 1: us directly twenty four seven, no matter when, no matter where, 702 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: at our good old fashioned email address where we are 703 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 1: Conspiracy at heart radio dot com. M Stuff they Don't 704 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: Want You to Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 705 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio visit the I 706 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 707 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.