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Speaker 1: Coo Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: On Friday, June sixth, twenty twenty five, ICE agents descended

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Speaker 2: on Los Angeles, California. The agents carried out immigration raids

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Speaker 2: at three separate locations, including a home depot in Westlake.

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Speaker 2: Dozens of men were snatched by masked armed agents. Ordinary

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Speaker 2: people bystanders and shoppers tried to intervene. They tried to

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Speaker 2: rescue the agent's targets, tried to pull them from the

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Speaker 2: grasp of the masked men. They put their bodies in

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Speaker 2: front of the unmarked SUVs. The detainees were shoved into.

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Speaker 2: Dozens of people were taken. As words spread, more crowds

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Speaker 2: began to gather. Protests sprang up organically. The people of

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles demanded an end to the immigration raids and

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Speaker 2: the unchecked violence by the ICE agents. Over one hundred

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Speaker 2: people were arrested that first night, including California SCIU President

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Speaker 2: David Huerta, but the raids continued, and so did the protests.

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Speaker 2: Nearly a weekend for the ongoing protests, on June eleventh,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis appeared on The

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Speaker 2: Reuben Report, a right wing political talk show hosted by

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Speaker 2: failed comedian turned YouTube commentator Dave Rubin. The pair were

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Speaker 2: discussing the situation in California, kind of DeSantis mostly used

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to brag about his commitment to preventing people

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Speaker 2: from freely exercising their civil rights, promising that anyone who

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Speaker 2: stepped out of line in Florida would be arrested. But

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Speaker 2: it's not just the police that protesters in Florida should

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Speaker 2: worry about.

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Speaker 3: And we also have a policy that if you you're

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Speaker 3: driving on one of those streets and a mob comes

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Speaker 3: and surrounds your vehicle and threatens you, you have a

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Speaker 3: right to flee for your safety. And so if you

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Speaker 3: drive off and you hit one of these people, that's

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Speaker 3: their fault for impinging on you. You don't have to

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Speaker 3: sit there and just be a sitting duck and let

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Speaker 3: the mob grab you out of your car and drag

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Speaker 3: you through the streets. You have a right to defend

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Speaker 3: yourself in Florida.

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Speaker 2: A day later, on June twelfth, Brivard County, Florida Sheriff

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Speaker 2: Wayne Ivy held a press conference. He echoed many of

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Speaker 2: the governor's warnings that protesters will face violence from both police.

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Speaker 4: And civilians if you try to mob rule a car

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Speaker 4: in Brevard County, gathering around it, refusing to let the

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Speaker 4: driver leave. In our county, you're most likely going to

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Speaker 4: get run over and dragged across the street.

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Speaker 2: Desantiss comments came just a day after a hit and

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Speaker 2: run at a protest in Chicago injured sixty six year

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Speaker 2: old woman. In the days that followed, there were vehicular

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Speaker 2: attacks on protests in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Riverside, California,

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Speaker 2: and Culpeper, Virginia. By the time you hear this, there

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Speaker 2: may well have been more. This kind of attack isn't new,

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Speaker 2: and it isn't rare. It's become frighteningly common in recent

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Speaker 2: years and is now being openly encouraged by right wing

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Speaker 2: commentators and legislators alike. There are too many stories about

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Speaker 2: angry drivers using a car as a weapon because they're

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Speaker 2: unhappy with a protest. But there is one in particular

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Speaker 2: that I know all too well. I'm Molly Conger, and

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Speaker 2: this is weird. Little guys. This is the story of

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Speaker 2: James Alex Fields Junior. I wish it weren't. I wish

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Speaker 2: his story was irrelevant, that it was over and he

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Speaker 2: didn't have to tell it again. On August twelfth, twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: James alex Fields Junior drove his Dodge Challenger into a

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Speaker 2: crowd of people on Fourth Street in downtown Charlottesville. The

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Speaker 2: attack took place two hours after police declared an unlawful

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Speaker 2: assembly and dispersed the crowd at nearby Market Street Park.

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Speaker 2: Both the white supremacist who were gathered there to attend

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Speaker 2: the United the Right rally and the counter protesters who'd

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Speaker 2: shown up to oppose them were cleared from the area.

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Speaker 2: The day was over. The group of people on Fourth

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Speaker 2: Street that afternoon were marching to celebrate the Nazis were gone,

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Speaker 2: the city was safe again. They were singing, enchanting. They

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Speaker 2: were peaceful, they were joyful. The street they were on

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Speaker 2: was closed to traffic that day. They had every reason

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Speaker 2: to believe they were safe. He accelerated as he approached them.

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Speaker 2: He injured dozens of people, he murdered one of them,

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Speaker 2: and he will be in prison for the rest of

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Speaker 2: his life. And because this is the story of James

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Speaker 2: Alexfield Junior, that's where I'll focus. This is the story

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Speaker 2: of a young man who loved Hitler and hated almost

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Speaker 2: everyone else. He hated black people, he hated Jewish people,

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Speaker 2: he hated anyone who wasn't white, and he hated white

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Speaker 2: people who didn't share the hate that fueled him. It

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Speaker 2: was hate that drove him as he drove his car

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Speaker 2: into a crowd of people one hot August afternoon, eight

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Speaker 2: years ago. That's what we're talking about. We won't talk

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Speaker 2: too much about his victims, the dozens of people who

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Speaker 2: are badly injured and survived. Many of them are very

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Speaker 2: private people out of necessity, They've endured years of harassment

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Speaker 2: from the supporters of the man who tried to kill them.

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Speaker 2: For those who try to downplay the violence of what

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Speaker 2: happens in this story, fix your hearts. It's been nearly

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Speaker 2: seven years since Fields's trial, but the testimony of those

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Speaker 2: victims is seared into my soul. There are pages of

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Speaker 2: my notes where the ink is smeared from tears I

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Speaker 2: couldn't wipe away fast enough as I hunched over the

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Speaker 2: notebook in my lap in that courtroom. So I won't

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Speaker 2: tell you how many surgical screws are in their bones,

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Speaker 2: how many of them still can't run or jump, or

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Speaker 2: lift their children into their arms, or make a closed

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Speaker 2: fist with hands once shattered to dust. Of them still

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Speaker 2: have nightmares and panic attacks and can't bear to look

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Speaker 2: in the mirror because the sight of their scars sounds

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Speaker 2: like screeching tires. Now isn't the time for that. And

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Speaker 2: we won't talk about Heather Higher, not really that was

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Speaker 2: her name, the woman that he murdered. I didn't know Heather.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't there when she died. But I've met her mother,

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Speaker 2: and I've seen the pain in her eyes when she

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Speaker 2: talks about burying her daughter in secret in an unmarked grave,

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Speaker 2: because conspiracy theorists think she was a crisis actor and

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Speaker 2: neo Nazis talk openly about how they'd love to desecrate

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Speaker 2: her final resting place. And I've seen her smile with

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Speaker 2: tears in her eyes, remembering that one of the last

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Speaker 2: things they said to each other was I love you.

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Speaker 2: She's grateful for that. And I've heard her friends talk

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Speaker 2: about who she was. She was outspoken and compassionate, and

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Speaker 2: she was very much not a mourning person. She loved

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Speaker 2: her chihuahua violet, and her favorite color was purple. She

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Speaker 2: was loved. But this is a story about the man

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Speaker 2: who took her life. And now with vehicular attacks on

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Speaker 2: protesters on the rise. The story of Heather's murder bears

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Speaker 2: remembering not just because these attacks bear frightening similarities to

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Speaker 2: the one that took her life, but because the discourse

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Speaker 2: surrounding them is full of lies about her death, lies

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Speaker 2: used to justify more attacks and to call for the

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Speaker 2: release of her killer. On August twelfth, twenty seventeen, white

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Speaker 2: supremacists filled the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia. The event they'd

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Speaker 2: all come to town for is one I've discussed several

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Speaker 2: times already on this show, the Unite the Right Rally.

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Speaker 2: James Alex Fields Junior was just one of thousands of

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Speaker 2: people who traveled here that weekend to hear speeches from

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Speaker 2: prominent neo Nazi and white supremacist activists. They never got

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Speaker 2: to hear those speeches. The violence in the streets started

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Speaker 2: hours before the event was scheduled to actually begin, and

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Speaker 2: an unlawful assembly was declared. By eleven thirty a m.

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Speaker 2: State police and riot gear pushed the rally goers out

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Speaker 2: of the park and into the streets, where violent altercations

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Speaker 2: with counter protesters continued. Maryland clansman Richard Preston had been

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Speaker 2: threatening to shoot people all morning, and as he exited

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Speaker 2: the park shortly before noon, he drew his gun, shouted

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Speaker 2: die nward, and fired a single shot into the dirt

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Speaker 2: at the feet of a young black man. As the

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Speaker 2: white supremacist begrudgingly began making the two mile trek back

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Speaker 2: to where they'd parked their cars, they encountered more counter

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Speaker 2: protesters walking down Market Street. Alex Ramos, Daniel Borden, Tyler Watkins,

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Speaker 2: and Jacob Goodwin were all eventually convicted for the brutal

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Speaker 2: beating of another young black man. It was a vicious

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Speaker 2: assault that took place directly outside of the Charlesville Police station.

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Speaker 2: At least three other men who participated in the attack

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Speaker 2: were never arrested. Two of them have never been identified.

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Speaker 2: The third uncharged attackers identity is known, but he can't

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Speaker 2: be charged. I identified him myself, but I was a

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Speaker 2: little too late. It's a strange and terrible coincidence that

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Speaker 2: I was going back through the video of that assault

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Speaker 2: in February of twenty twenty three and I finally identified

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Speaker 2: Teddy von Neuwcomb as one of the attackers just two

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Speaker 2: weeks after he died. Teddy von Neucomb shot himself in

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Speaker 2: the heart the morning he was scheduled to go on

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Speaker 2: trial for fentanyl trafficking. But back to the morning of

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Speaker 2: August twelfth. People got hurt that morning. The neo Nazi

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Speaker 2: street fighting gang the Rise Above Movement, punched, shoved, and

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Speaker 2: choked counter protesters standing on the sidewalk outside the park.

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Speaker 2: A feyalanx of uniformed fascists carrying home made shields shoved

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Speaker 2: their way through a line of peaceful counterdemonstrators. Members of

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Speaker 2: the clergy were assaulted by Nazis. The air was thick

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Speaker 2: with mace and screams. But that was the morning. By noon,

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Speaker 2: they were all retreating to their cars. They were disappointed,

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Speaker 2: They were hot and tired and frustrated. They were angry,

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Speaker 2: but they were leaving. James Alex Fields hadn't actually parked

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Speaker 2: his car at McIntyre Park. Most people had, but many

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Speaker 2: of them had come with a group of some kind.

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Speaker 2: Fields came alone. He left his home in Maumi, Ohio

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Speaker 2: on the evening of Friday, August eleventh. He hadn't been

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Speaker 2: sure he'd be able to attend. He only secured the

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Speaker 2: weekend off from work a few days earlier, but he'd

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Speaker 2: known about the rally for months. On Twitter, he followed

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Speaker 2: rally organizers Richard Spencer and Augustus and Victus, as well

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Speaker 2: as other prominent white supremacists like David Duke and Brad Griffin.

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Speaker 2: He replied frequently to Richard Spencer's posts, though there's no

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Speaker 2: indication Spencer ever took any notice of him. In July,

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Speaker 2: Fields retweeted a post containing a flyer for the rally.

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Speaker 2: All summer, he enthusiastically posted, retweeted, and commented on posts

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Speaker 2: about violence at right wing rallies and other cities. He

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Speaker 2: seemed particularly thrilled by images of the violence at rallies

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Speaker 2: in California, pictures of members of the Rise Above movement

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Speaker 2: beating a man in Huntington Beach, a gift of Nathan

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Speaker 2: Dimigo punching a woman at Berkeley. He tweeted often at

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Speaker 2: Baked Alaska, write Internet celebrity. On one occasion, he tagged

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Speaker 2: Baked Alaska in a post that contained just fourteen words,

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Speaker 2: A very specific fourteen words. We must secure the existence

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Speaker 2: of our people and a future for white children. The

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Speaker 2: white supremacist slogan first penned by David Lane while he

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Speaker 2: was in prison, for his role in the murder of

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Speaker 2: Jewish talk radio host Alan Berg. Fields posted pictures of

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Speaker 2: Nazis marching in nineteen forties Germany, captioning it hashtag Tuesday motivation.

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Speaker 2: He posted often about his belief that black people were

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Speaker 2: genetically inferior, had low IQs, were predisposed to crime, and

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Speaker 2: were more eighth than human. He self identified as a

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Speaker 2: nationalist and expressed a willingness to kill anyone deemed to

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Speaker 2: be a threat, writing things like violence is our only

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Speaker 2: hope for survival as a people, and violence is the

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Speaker 2: only solution. Many of the men who attended the United

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Speaker 2: Stas Right rally would later claim that they'd only been

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Speaker 2: there because they love Confederate statues. Protesting the removal of

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Speaker 2: the statue of Robert E. Lee was allegedly the purpose

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Speaker 2: of the event. But Fields is not an outlier here.

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Speaker 2: He was not alone in the months that he spent

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Speaker 2: watching the violence at other rallies that summer months, posting

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Speaker 2: violent fantasies of killing for the white race. He was

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Speaker 2: here because he was a Nazi, as were many of

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Speaker 2: the men in the park that day. On Friday afternoon,

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Speaker 2: he dropped his cat Buddy off at his mother's house

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Speaker 2: for the weekend, and he texted her to let her know.

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Speaker 2: She replied, as mothers do, be careful. He texted her

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Speaker 2: back a picture of Adolf Hitler. Along with the image,

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Speaker 2: he typed, we are not the ones who need to

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Speaker 2: be careful. He didn't get here in time for the

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Speaker 2: Torch March that night. He drove through the night, arriving

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Speaker 2: in Charlottesville around two or three AM. Sitting alone in

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Speaker 2: his car in McDonald's parking lot, he scrolled through social media.

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Speaker 2: He saw a tweet from David Duke with pictures of

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Speaker 2: the Torch March. Duke wrote, our people on the march,

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Speaker 2: will you be at Unite the Right tomorrow? Field saved

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Speaker 2: the pictures onto his phone and then he texted them

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Speaker 2: to his mother. He also asked about his cap. He

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Speaker 2: knacked a little bit in his car in the McDonald's

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Speaker 2: parking lot, drove to waffle House to eat breakfast alone,

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Speaker 2: and then returned to that McDonald's parking lot downtown early

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Speaker 2: Saturday morning, as other attendees gathered in McIntyre Park, nearly

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Speaker 2: two miles from the location of the rally, he was

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Speaker 2: already downtown, just a few blocks from his destination. I know,

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Speaker 2: that's a lot of seemingly extreme raeous information about where

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Speaker 2: people were parking their cars, and it probably means nothing

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Speaker 2: to you unless you live here and you can picture

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Speaker 2: in your mind how close the McDonald's on Ridge Street

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Speaker 2: is to that park downtown. But getting back to various

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Speaker 2: parked cars becomes a key piece of this timeline, I promise.

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Speaker 2: So Fields's car is downtown at the McDonald's, but most

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Speaker 2: of the attendees have parked their cars at a different park,

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Speaker 2: one that was far away from the park where the

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Speaker 2: rally would be. Fields had probably planned to sit there

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Speaker 2: in his car until closer to noon, when the rally

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Speaker 2: was scheduled to begin, but from where he was parked,

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Speaker 2: he could see that people were starting to walk in

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Speaker 2: that direction, so he joined them. By around nine am,

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Speaker 2: he was among the first attendees to arrive at Market

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Speaker 2: Street Park. Photos taken that morning show Field standing with

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Speaker 2: members of Vanguard America. That's a now defunct neo Nazi

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Speaker 2: group that later that year would morph into what we

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Speaker 2: now know as Patriot Front. There had been an ongoing

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Speaker 2: power struggle within Vanguard America that summer, and the group's

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Speaker 2: official leader, Dylan Hopper didn't actually attend the event. In

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Speaker 2: Hopper's absence, the group was commanded on the ground that

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Speaker 2: day by the man who was trying to wrest control

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Speaker 2: of it from Dylan Hopper. It was an eighteen year

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Speaker 2: old whose name you might already know was a young

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Speaker 2: Thomas Rousseau, the current leader of Patriot Front. Everyone involved

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Speaker 2: has always maintained that James Alex Fields was not a

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Speaker 2: member of Vanguard America. They claimed they'd never met him before,

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Speaker 2: but there he was, marching in their ranks, dressed identically

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Speaker 2: to their members and holding a round wooden shield with

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Speaker 2: their logo on it. According to deposition testimony from Dylan Hopper,

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Speaker 2: it was Thomas Rousseau himself who handed Fields the shield.

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Speaker 5: Morning.

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Speaker 2: From his deposition, he told me that he let James

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Speaker 2: Fields into Vanguard America's formation at Charlottesville when nobody knew

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Speaker 2: who he was. He didn't come with anybody, and they

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Speaker 2: just gave him a shield and said, hey, march with us.

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Speaker 2: And Thomas Rousseau's reasoning was to make Vanguard look like

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Speaker 2: a larger organization in front of the news media. Vanguard

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Speaker 2: America's official position was that James Alex Field was not

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Speaker 2: a member of their organization, but they also claimed that

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Speaker 2: they didn't actually have any kind of list of their

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Speaker 2: members that they could show that didn't have his name

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Speaker 2: on it, because there was no list. The organization was

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Speaker 2: one of many named defendants in a lawsuit filed by

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Speaker 2: people who were hurt that day, and over the years

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Speaker 2: of litigation in that suit, Vanguard America never produced a

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Speaker 2: single document. They expect us to believe that they didn't

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Speaker 2: have a single text message, email, organizational communication, or internal

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Speaker 2: document that was responsive to the discovery request. Hopper claimed

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Speaker 2: they kept no records of any kind and he didn't

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Speaker 2: even know the real names of most of the group's members.

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Speaker 2: So they're able to swear under oath that they know

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Speaker 2: for sure that Fields wasn't a member, but they couldn't

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Speaker 2: actually tell you who was. For what it's worth, I

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Speaker 2: do think it's pretty plausible that a teenage Thomas Russo

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Speaker 2: was foolish enough to hand a shield to a stranger.

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Speaker 2: He really to make himself look more important, so that

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Speaker 2: it looked like he was commanding a larger group of

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Speaker 2: Nazis in front of a TV camera. Videos show Field

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Speaker 2: standing with the Vanguard America shield wall at the perimeter

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Speaker 2: of the park. He's joining in racist, sexist, homophobic, and

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Speaker 2: anti Semitic chants, and he seems to be having a

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Speaker 2: pretty good time. When the police cleared the park at

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Speaker 2: eleven thirty, Field's left with everyone else. There was some

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Speaker 2: hope that the rally would regroup back at McIntyre Park

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Speaker 2: and they could still hear the scheduled speeches, So even

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Speaker 2: though he was so close to his parked car, which

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Speaker 2: again was downtown, he walked with the crowd back to

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Speaker 2: McIntyre Park two miles away. At trial, an FBI analyst

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Speaker 2: testified about the geolocation data extracted from Peels's cell phone.

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Speaker 2: This shouldn't matter. This is tedious, and it's boring, and

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Speaker 2: it's nitpicky, and it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter where

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Speaker 2: he was from minute to minute between eleven thirty am

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Speaker 2: and one forty pm. It should be enough for me

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Speaker 2: to tell you that he left the park around eleven

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Speaker 2: thirty and by one forty pm he was committing a murder.

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Speaker 2: But two hours in between are just a long hot walk.

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Speaker 2: Why does it matter? But unfortunately it matters a great deal.

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Speaker 2: A conspiracy theory has broken containment and I feel compelled

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Speaker 2: to try again to set the record straight. When people

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Speaker 2: like Rond De Santis or Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivy

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Speaker 2: encourage people to run protesters over, they claim they're talking

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Speaker 2: about self defense, but the self defense that exists in

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00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: their imaginations doesn't really have any relationship with reality. It's

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Speaker 2: the same self defense that James Alex Fields would claim

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Speaker 2: after his crime, the same self defense his supporters have

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Speaker 2: cooked up elaborate imaginary scenarios to justify what Fields did

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Speaker 2: was not self defense. He was convicted by a jury.

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Speaker 2: He eventually pled guilty to similar charges in a federal court.

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Speaker 2: But the recent popular enthusiasm for murdering protesters has broken

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Speaker 2: free from the confines of hardcore violent extremist chat rooms.

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Speaker 2: It's gone mainstream, and the conspiracy theories about Fields's crime

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Speaker 2: are spreading now too. And I want to give you

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Speaker 2: the facts you might need to combat those lies if

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00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 2: you encounter them out there in the world. Some of

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00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 2: those lies are easy to debunk quickly. There are people

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Speaker 2: who will tell you that Heather Higher didn't even get

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Speaker 2: hit by the car, that her death was from a

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Speaker 2: heart attack. To that, I offer you the testimony of

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Speaker 2: a DNA analyst from the Virginia Department of Forensic Science.

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Speaker 2: She performed testing that confirmed that a piece of human

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Speaker 2: flesh that was embedded in the car's broken windshield was

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Speaker 2: a DNA match to Heather. Higher testing performed on bloodstains

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Speaker 2: found on the vehicle showed at least ten distinct profiles.

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Speaker 2: Ten people's blood was on that car, including Heather's. The

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Speaker 2: medical examiner who performed Heather's autopsy showed the jury X

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Speaker 2: rays of a displaced fracture to Heather's right femur, broken ribs,

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Speaker 2: cut her lungs, and her liver. Her aorda was completely transsected.

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Speaker 2: The doctor's exact words, according to my notes, were, it

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Speaker 2: was snapped in half. The aorda is the largest artery

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Speaker 2: in the human body, taking blood directly from the heart

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Speaker 2: out into the body. Completely severing the aorda is not

341
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: a survivable injury. She bled to death internally very quickly.

342
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Speaker 2: The official cause of death was blunt force trauma to

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Speaker 2: the Torso anyone who was stuck arguing that the car

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00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 2: never struck her, or that she died of anything other

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Speaker 2: than being struck by that car is willfully ignorant.

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Speaker 1: These facts are quite concrete.

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Speaker 2: The other persistent lie is a little more complicated. I

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00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: mean the facts are there. I don't mean there's actually

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Speaker 2: any lingering confusion. It's just a more convoluted narrative, and

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Speaker 2: the average conspiracy theorist isn't going to sit quietly long

351
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Speaker 2: enough to have it explained to them. The story goes

352
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Speaker 2: like this, He had to do it. Fields was terrified

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Speaker 2: of Antifa. He didn't want to hurt those people. He

354
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: was trying to escape from a man who was threatening

355
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Speaker 2: him with a rifle. He was afraid for his life.

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Speaker 2: That people who repeat this story often don't know or

357
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Speaker 2: don't care to know, any more than that the specifics

358
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: aren't important, only the feeling. They feel it must be

359
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: true because it affirms their existing belief that left wing

360
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Speaker 2: protesters are violent and that right wing white men are persecuted.

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00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: The problem is this never happened. This was a lie

362
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: born by accident. A leftist counter demonstrator made an understandable mistake.

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Speaker 2: You see, there were members of left wing groups in

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Speaker 2: Charlottesville that day who carried guns. This is Virginia. It's

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Speaker 2: legal to open carry a rifle in public, regardless of

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Speaker 2: how you feel about that. In terms of God laws

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Speaker 2: in general, protest tactics specifically, whatever, that's just the situation.

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Speaker 2: It is legal for people to open carry a rifle

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Speaker 2: in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Members of an anarchist gun

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00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: club were in a different downtown park, Court Square Park,

371
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Speaker 2: which is about two blocks from the Market Street Park

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Speaker 2: where the rally was held. In the days after that rally,

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Speaker 2: one of those counter demonstrators, who had been legally carrying

374
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Speaker 2: his rifle that day, posted online that he'd seen Fields

375
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Speaker 2: that afternoon before the attack. He wrote, I used this

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00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: rifle to chase off James Fields from our block of

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Speaker 2: Fourth Street before he attacked the marchers to the south.

378
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: And when he posted that he believed it to be true,

379
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: he was traumatized. He had survivor's guilt. He truly believed

380
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 2: that he had seen James Fields driving around hunting for

381
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 2: victims and the hour before the attack happened, but he

382
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: was wrong. After his Facebook post, a Charlesville police detective

383
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: drove to his home to interview him, and I've obtained

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00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: a copy of that police interview. He said that around

385
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: one pm that afternoon, he saw a dark gray muscle

386
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: car with very dark tinted windows circling Court Square Park.

387
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: The car was driving slowly, as though the driver were

388
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: trying to observe the people in the park. The third

389
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: time the card drove past, it came to a complete stop,

390
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: level with where he was standing inside the park, and

391
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: at that point, he says, he stepped down off the curb,

392
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: standing between two parked cars, so not all the way

393
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: out into the road, but off the curb, and he

394
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: yelled at the car something like get out of here.

395
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: And he says the interaction was brief. The driver did

396
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: not roll down the window. They didn't exchange words. His

397
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: rifle remained slung across his body, muzzle pointing at the ground,

398
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: and he never put his hand on the pistol grip.

399
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 2: He did not raise his weapon, he didn't step all

400
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: the way out into the road, and he was the

401
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: only person who moved in the direction of the car

402
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: at all. There was no mob, there was no threat,

403
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: there was no rifle pointing, but more importantly, there was

404
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: no James Alex Fields. He was mistaken. After the attack,

405
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: he saw photos of Fields's dark gray Dodge Challenger, and

406
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: he believed it was the same car he'd seen earlier

407
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: that day, but it absolutely could not have been. It

408
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: is not possible. At the time of the attack one

409
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 2: forty pm, this man was in the middle of an

410
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: interview with a reporter. The reporter took photographs of him

411
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: for the story, and those photographs are timestamped at one

412
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: thirty pm. He estimates they'd been talking for about fifteen

413
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 2: minutes before they started taking the pictures, and the incident

414
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: with the mysterious car had occurred a little bit prior

415
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: to this, So if he's been talking to a reporter

416
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: since one fifteen, his best guess is that he saw

417
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: this car sometime between twelve forty five and one fifteen.

418
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: It couldn't have been any later than one fifteen. And

419
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: we know exactly where James Alex Fields was at one

420
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: thirteen PM because there a security footage from a Shell

421
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: gas station showing him purchasing a blue power aid. Fields

422
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: left his car in the McDonald's parking lot around nine

423
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: am and he didn't return to it again until around

424
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 2: one twenty pm. Neither Fields nor his car were anywhere

425
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: near Court Square Park when this man saw a dark

426
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: gray muscle car slowly circling the park. The police have

427
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: never weighed in on this. I wish they would, because

428
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: I think they know the answer. I think they could

429
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: put this to bed if they felt like it. It

430
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: is my very firmly held belief that the car that

431
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: man saw that day was an unmarked police car. The

432
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: Charlstol Police Department did have an unmarked dark gray Dodge

433
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: charger with dark tinted windows. Mistaking a charger for a

434
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: challenger is a hard to believe if you saw it

435
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: only briefly, and it's very easy to imagine why a

436
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: cop might make several laps around the park to try

437
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: to get a better look at the guys with the guns.

438
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: I don't think we'll ever get an answer to the

439
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: question of who exactly it was driving around the park

440
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: at one pm, but I can promise you it was

441
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: not James Alex Fields. Field's left downtown around eleven thirty

442
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: am with the other rally attendees. Again, they all kind

443
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: of hoped that maybe the rally wasn't a total wash

444
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: and they'd still be able to hear some speeches back

445
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: at McIntyre Park, so he joined in the crowd walking

446
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: back that way. According to GPS data from his cell phone,

447
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: Fields was in McIntyre Park shortly afternoon. He milled around

448
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: a little, but it quickly became clear that nothing was

449
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: going to happen there. He needed to walk back downtown

450
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: to get to his car, but he didn't really want

451
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: to walk there alone. He met another man in the

452
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: same situation, Joshua Matthews. The pair soon met Sarah Bolstad

453
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: and her boyfriend Hayden Calhoun, two other rally attendees who

454
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: needed to get back downtown, and they all decided to

455
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: walk there together. Fields's cell phone pings show a minute

456
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: by minute progression of this walk, and at one thirteen

457
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: p m. He's on camera buying that power aid. Joshua

458
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: Matthews testify that he bought a bottle of wine at

459
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: the gas station to celebrate getting through the day safely.

460
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: It took another five minutes from there to walk back

461
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: to Fields's car at the mc donald's. All four of

462
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: them got into his car and he drove Bolstad and

463
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: Calhoun to their car, which turned out to be right

464
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: across the street. Matthews had parked in the garage downtown,

465
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: which was another couple of minutes away by car. By

466
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: one thirty five p m. James Alex Fields is alone

467
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: in his car after dropping off his last passenger at

468
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: the Market Street parking garage, typed Mammy Ohio into the

469
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: search bar on the maps app on his phone to

470
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: get directions home. The streets were empty at that point.

471
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: Everyone had gone home, even the police. There were extensive

472
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: road closures downtown that day for the scheduled rally, and

473
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: officers had been stationed in the intersections around the roadblocks.

474
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: The officers were gone now, but the streets were still

475
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: blocked off. In hindsight, maybe they should have closed the

476
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: Market Street parking garage too. That part of downtown has

477
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: a lot of narrow one way streets and it can

478
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: be confusing for out of towners even without the added

479
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: complication of the roadblocks. But there are a lot of

480
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: things I think the city would have done differently with

481
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: the benefit of hindsight, and even locals were a little

482
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: bit puzzled about how to navigate this situation. Two other

483
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: drivers had run into the same problem, ending up on

484
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: Fourth Street just before Fields did. The first driver was

485
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: a woman I'll just call l She was driving home

486
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: from running an errand and she got mixed up with

487
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: the roadblocks. Fourth Street was technically closed to traffic two

488
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: but the tiny wooden sawhorse still standing in the road

489
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: didn't block it completely, so she turned down that street.

490
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: At the intersection of Fourth and Water Street, there was

491
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: a stop sign, and as she stopped at the bottom

492
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: of Fourth Street, the crowd of marchers is coming up

493
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: Water towards that intersection. They're chanting and singing, and they're

494
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: joyfully reclaiming their city streets from the Nazi invasion. And

495
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: as they approached the intersection, they turned left up Fourth

496
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: Street towards the pedestrian mall. They were singing, they were laughing.

497
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: She said. The crowd just felt so positive, so happy

498
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: that she got out of her car. I wanted to

499
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: get that on film, she testified at Feels' trial. This

500
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: was a moment in history. One of the marchers recognized

501
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: her and ran over to say hi and smile for

502
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: the Snapchat video she was recording. It's a joyful moment.

503
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: As this is happening, A second car pulled in behind

504
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: Elle's van as she stopped at this intersection. This car,

505
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 2: driven by a woman I'll just call Tea, stopped too.

506
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: She hadn't attended any of the protests that morning, but

507
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: when she heard that everything was over, she left her

508
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: house to go visit a friend who lived near downtown.

509
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: She was on her way home when she got caught

510
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: up trying to navigate the roadblocks. Tea testified that as

511
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: she wound her way around downtown trying to figure out

512
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: which streets weren't closed, there was another car behind her

513
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: the entire time. He seemed to be in the same boat.

514
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: He followed her at a safe distance, driving calmly and safely,

515
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: making the same turns she made, and stopping behind her

516
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: at a red light. Like L. She drove past the

517
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: little saw Horse on Fourth Street, and the gray dodged

518
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,959
Speaker 2: challenger was still right behind her. She saw the crowd

519
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: at the end of the street as she approached, so

520
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: she was driving really slowly, and she came to a

521
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 2: stop behind L's van. It was amazing, she said, I've

522
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: never seen so many people standing up for black people,

523
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: so many people of another color standing up for us.

524
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: She testified that a passing marcher leaned in toward her

525
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: open car window and thanked her for being so patient.

526
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 2: As the group moved up the street around her idling car,

527
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: the challenger was still behind her. In her rearview mirror,

528
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 2: she saw the car start to back up. That made

529
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: sense to her. D saw the crowd and changed his mind.

530
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: Maybe he didn't want to wait down there at the

531
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: bottom of Fourth Street for the crowd to pass. Who

532
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 2: knows how long it might take, so he's probably going

533
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: to back all the way back out onto Market Street

534
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 2: and try a different path. She remembered, thinking she might

535
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: be there for a while, but there was no way

536
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: she would be able to maneuver her car all the

537
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: way back out to Market Street and reverse, so she

538
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: stayed put. If you're not familiar with downtown Charlottesville, we

539
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: have a pedestrian mall. It's just an outdoor area a

540
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: few blocks of shops and restaurants, and it's just for pedestrians.

541
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: But for some ungodly stupid reason, there are two streets

542
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: that intersect it. Our pedestrian only mall has two vehicular crossings,

543
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: and Fourth Street is one of them. So these three

544
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: cars turned onto Fourth Street from Market Street where it

545
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: crosses the mall, and as you pass on to and

546
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: then back off off of the pedestrian only area, as

547
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: you proceed down Fourth Street, there are speed bumps. Security

548
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: camera footage from a nearby business shows each car as

549
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: it drove down Fourth Street. L's red van, then tes

550
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: silver sedan, then the Challenger. The angle of this camera

551
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: was only meant to capture the area just outside the

552
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: restaurant's door, so it just catches a fleeting glimpse of

553
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: each vehicle as they cross onto the pedestrian mall. One

554
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: minute and ten seconds after it fields, his car first

555
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: appear driving down Fourth Street. It reappears in frame driving

556
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: in reverse, and then suddenly it accelerates forward. There was

557
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: no one around him. The security camera footage shows that

558
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: witnesses testified to that the state police helicopter hover overhead

559
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: recording video of the entire scene clearly shows it. El

560
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: and T had made the same mistake he did, turning

561
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: down a closed road, and they were waiting patiently for

562
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: the peaceful crowd to make their way onto the pedestrian mall,

563
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: but he was behind them, idling alone watching. When T

564
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: saw him start to reverse, she assumed he was leaving,

565
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: but he was just giving himself more room to accelerate.

566
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 2: A photojournalist from the local newspaper was on the mall

567
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: that afternoon. He'd worked all morning taking pictures of the

568
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: violent scenes on Market Street, but he'd come back out

569
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: that afternoon, now that everything was over, to look around.

570
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't with the crowd, but he heard them and

571
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: walked over to see. He saw the Great Challenger just

572
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 2: as it started reversing, and he too assumed the car

573
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: was trying to back out onto Market Street. But then

574
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: he heard the engine revving. He raised his camera and

575
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: captured seventy four frames, a rapid burst of photos, sort

576
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: of a grisly flip book. Here, too, we can lay

577
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: to rest another persistent lie. While the helicopter footage provides

578
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: a clear view of the entire scene, it's a bird's

579
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: eye view. You can only see the tops of things,

580
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,959
Speaker 2: only the top of the car. I've seen the video.

581
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: It's clear enough to me that the driver was accelerating,

582
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: that he made no attempt to slow down as he

583
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: plowed into the crowd. But both his attorneys at trial

584
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: and his supporters online will tell you that he hit

585
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: the brakes he tried to slow down. These photos prove otherwise.

586
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: On the stand, the photographer has shown his own pictures.

587
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: In one frame, the brake lights are illuminated, indicating that

588
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: the driver tapped his brakes. But this wasn't as he

589
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 2: neared the crowd. It was the moment his car bottomed

590
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: out over a speed bump. Several witnesses testified that they

591
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: heard the car's undercarriage scrape the speed bump as he

592
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: crossed the pedestrian mall. Several testified that it looked like

593
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 2: the car was briefly airborne because it hit the speed

594
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: bump so fast. But once he cleared that barrier, the

595
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: brake lights never came on again. As he approached the crowd,

596
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: he was accelerating. It sounded like a gunshot. I just

597
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: remember screaming. I think I was saying, where are my kids?

598
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: Where are my kids? I thought a bomb went off.

599
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: I thought more cars might be coming. I tried to

600
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: get out of the street, but I didn't know why.

601
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: My legs wouldn't work. When I came to, my leg

602
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: was broken and I couldn't find my child. The only

603
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 2: thing I could think about was getting my wife out.

604
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 5: Of the way.

605
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 2: These are the words of the people whose bones he broke.

606
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 2: He drove right through that crowd, ramming into the back

607
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: of Tea's car, pushing it forward into L's van. L

608
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 2: was actually hit by her own parked car. She'd gotten

609
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: out to greet a friend in the crowd and was

610
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: standing in front of the van when it was pushed

611
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: forward in the crash. The street was too narrow for

612
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 2: fields to continue on this path. The two cars he'd

613
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: crashed into were blocking the intersection. And here again we

614
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: have a moment in time that has become distorted in

615
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: the retelling conspiracy. Theorists will tell you that the crowd

616
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: attacked his car unprovoked, that the damage to his vehicle

617
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 2: occurred before the attack, that he feared for his life

618
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: because this mob attacked him, and there certainly was some

619
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: damage to his car that wasn't from the crash, but

620
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: that didn't happen until after the crash. Dozens of people

621
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: relying on the ground, bleeding and broken. Many people ran,

622
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: not knowing what horrors might come next. Was he going

623
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: to get out of the car with a gun? And

624
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: for every person who was lying injured on the pavement,

625
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: half a dozen others stepped up to render aid, moving

626
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: victims out of the street, tearing off their own clothes

627
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: to try to stop bleeding, stabilizing possibly broken necks. But

628
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: some people in that crowd identified a threat and they

629
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: did what they felt was necessary, striking the vehicle and

630
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: putting a few good dents in it. He had just

631
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: killed someone. I think that's fair. With no path forward,

632
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: Fields really was surrounded by an angry crowd. Now in

633
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: the collective imaginations of aggrieved white supremacists, this angry crowd

634
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: has existed throughout the story, but the evidence is clear

635
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: no one had an issue with the gray Challenger until

636
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 2: after it was a clear and present danger. He threw

637
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: the car into reverse, hitting several more people in the process,

638
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 2: and backed all the way back up Fourth Street, back

639
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: onto Market Street, and he drove toward the highway. He

640
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: still had the GPS directions for his trip back home

641
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: pulled up on his phone. The footage captured by the

642
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: state police helicopter tracked his flight from the scene. The

643
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: officers who filmed it never actually testified they couldn't. A

644
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: few hours later, miles from downtown, they lost control of

645
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: their helicopter and both troopers died in the crash. Fields

646
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: drove for a little over a mile, with an officer

647
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 2: in pursuit for much of that drive, before surrendering just

648
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: blocks from the on ramp to the interstate. The officer

649
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 2: who pulled him over actually had no idea what Fields

650
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: had done. He just happened to hear the radio call

651
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: just as Fields was passing by where he was sitting

652
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: in his parked car. So in Field saw the officer

653
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: and asked, are the people okay? He didn't know the answer.

654
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: It wasn't until he was sitting at the police station

655
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: that an officer told him that someone had died. Based

656
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: on the audio of this interview, sounds like he was

657
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: having a panic attack. It is impossible to know which

658
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: one of a man's lies he actually believes. As he

659
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 2: was lying face down on the side of the road,

660
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: he said, I didn't want to hurt people, but they

661
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: were attacking me, And later at the magistrate's office, Fields

662
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: can be heard on bodycam footage saying, I felt like

663
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 2: the people behind me were trying to surround me, but

664
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 2: that just isn't true. There were no people behind him,

665
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: not until he drove over them. Anyway. The only time

666
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: his car was ever surrounded by anyone was when he

667
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: drove into them. He sat all alone for a minute

668
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: and ten seconds, looking down that street at the crowd.

669
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: He was obviously capable of backing all the way back

670
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: up Fourth Street. He ended up doing just that after

671
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: the murder, but he chose to accelerate forward instead. He

672
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: chose that because he wanted to hurt them. He wanted

673
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: to hurt black people and Jewish people and gay people

674
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: and liberals and communists. He saw Black Lives Matter signs

675
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: and rainbow flags and people in black bandannas, and he

676
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 2: couldn't stand it. He had other options. He wasn't defending himself,

677
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 2: and he knows that a few months after the attack,

678
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: while he was awaiting trial in the local jail, he

679
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 2: brought up the topic of heather Hire's mother in a

680
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: phone call with his own mother.

681
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 5: Was like going around one speeches and ship slander and

682
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 5: me commies. I had unheard anything I'm going to do

683
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 5: radiyat oh okay, No, I think I think was that

684
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 5: she was on the news and one speeches and ship.

685
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 5: She's one of those anti white communists. She lost it

686
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 5: on her. You know, it doesn't matter. She's a communist.

687
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 5: You need to stop talking. Nobody isn't She is a

688
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 5: communist and anti white. Okay, it's not for questioning she is.

689
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 5: She's the enemy, Nobody's mother.

690
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: Her death doesn't fucking matter. Her mother's pain doesn't fucking matter.

691
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: They're the enemy. They're anti white communists, and their lives

692
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: are worthless and they don't fucking matter. That's what he believes.

693
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: That's the truth. Not the self serving, self pitying tears

694
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 2: and the mattressrate's office, not the lies that he told

695
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 2: his lawyers that they repeated for him in court. None

696
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: of that. This is the truth. Like I said, I

697
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: didn't know Heather, but I've met her mother on a

698
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: few occasions. We've never talked to politics, not really. We

699
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: talked about her daughter, about the case, about the Nazi

700
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: who said he was going to use her daughter's grave

701
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: as a urinal. She always asks me how my little

702
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: dogs are. But I'm willing to stake a claim here

703
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: and say that neither Heather nor her mother would say

704
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: that they're communists, because that word doesn't mean when you

705
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: think it means. Here, he doesn't mean someone who identifies

706
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: with the political ideology of communism. It means someone who

707
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 2: doesn't want Nazis around. It means someone that white nationalists

708
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: don't like. In another record of jail call, Fields explained

709
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 2: to his mother that all liberals are communists who hate

710
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: white people and want to destroy a white society. So

711
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: when you see a white supremacist talking about his fervent

712
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: desire to hurt or kill communists, just know he means

713
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: you too. The murder was premeditated. He was convicted of

714
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: first degree murder, which in Virginia requires premeditation, but that

715
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: doesn't mean you have to make the plan far in advance.

716
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: At trial, the prosecutor emphasized that they believed he formulated

717
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: his intent during that one minute and ten seconds that

718
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: he spent idling on Fourth Street, staring down at the crowd.

719
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: And I think that's almost certainly the truth. I don't

720
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: think that he drove here from Ohio intending to do this.

721
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 2: I don't think he knew when he left his cat

722
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: at his mother's house for the weekend that he would

723
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: never come home again. The plan didn't form until the

724
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: opportunity presented itself. But the plan was able to form

725
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: so quickly because he'd thought about it before, and he

726
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: wasn't the only one. I think I need to do

727
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: a follow up episode about the history of vehicle attacks

728
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 2: on protests. I'd intended to get into it here, but

729
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: I sort of lost track of things. It was a

730
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: subject of interest in certain circles and several similar attacks

731
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: in the United States predate this one. In the discord

732
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 2: server for Unite the Right rally attendees, the idea came

733
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: up several times. I don't believe there's any evidence that

734
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: Fields was ever an active participant in the chat, but

735
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: it just goes to show how prevalent the fantasy was.

736
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: A month before the rally, a user posting as Tyrone,

737
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: said is it legal to run over protesters blocking roadways?

738
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: I'm not just ship posting. I would like clarification. The

739
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 2: same user posted a meme showing a large piece of

740
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: John Deere farming equipment with the text introducing John Deere's

741
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: new multi lane Protester digester Tyrone wrote, sure would be nice.

742
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: A week earlier, another user posted what is it called

743
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 2: when you run over a protester? Black lives splatter? Shane Duffy,

744
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: a member of the neo Nazi group Traditionalist Worker Party,

745
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 2: posted this will be us alongside an image from the

746
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: two thousand and four movie Dawn of the Dead depicting

747
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: a bus driving into a crowd of zombies. Two days

748
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: before the rally, another user posted on the subject of

749
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: counter protesters, writing, you're supposed to run them over with

750
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 2: your car. These are jokes, probably kind of that's what

751
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: they'd tell you, And none of those men actually did it,

752
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: so maybe they were kidding. Think it's instructive here to

753
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: quote from the style guide written by the editor of

754
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: the neo Nazi website The Daily Stormer. It was intended

755
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: to be an internal document for the site's authors, and

756
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 2: the site was one that many of these men read daily.

757
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: In the section about humor, the document's author Andrew Anglin wrote,

758
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: the tone of the site should be light. Most people

759
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: are not comfortable with material that comes across as vitriolic, raging,

760
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: non ironic hatred. The undoctrinated should not be able to

761
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 2: tell if we are joking or not. There should also

762
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 2: be a conscious awareness of mocking stereotypes of hateful racists.

763
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 2: I usually think of this as self deprecating humor. I

764
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: am a racist making fun of stereotypes of racists because

765
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: I don't take myself super seriously. This is obviously a ploy,

766
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: and I actually do want to gas antisemitic slur for

767
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 2: Jewish people, but that's neither here nor there. Serious articles

768
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: are fine and can be written and published with absolute seriousness. However,

769
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: articles which take a serious tone should not include racial

770
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: slurs or even rude language about other races. Another section

771
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: with a heading violence reads it's illegal to promote violence

772
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: on the Internet. At the same time, it's totally important

773
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: to normalize the acceptance of violence as an eventuality slash inevitability.

774
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 2: I'm extremely careful about never suggesting violence. I go beyond

775
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 2: legal requirements in America. However, whenever someone does something violent,

776
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 2: it should be made light of and laughed at. For example,

777
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: Anders Bravic should be forever referred to as a heroic

778
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: freedom fighter. This is great because people think you must

779
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: be joking, but there is a part of their brain

780
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't think that. So this is partly an attempt

781
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: at just plausible deniability. If someone's offended, it was just

782
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 2: a joke, and you haven't lost face. If you get

783
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 2: in trouble it was just a joke, maybe you won't

784
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: be punished. But if it works, if you tell a

785
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 2: racist joke or propose a violent act and it's well received,

786
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: then you've made a connection. You've found a fellow traveler.

787
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 2: But as they say themselves, it's also a recruitment and

788
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 2: indoctrination strategy. You ease people into it you let them

789
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: have an uneasy chuckle at your racist joke, give them

790
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: the internal deniability that they need to hear something like

791
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: that and not push back erode their boundaries. Get them

792
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 2: comfortable with that kind of talk. Normalize it. A now

793
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: deceased Daily Stormer writer said it himself. Here's Robert Ray,

794
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: the Nazi who called himself Asthmador, greeting a fan. The

795
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 2: audio is a little bit fuzzy, lot of background noise

796
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 2: in this clip, and that's because it was recorded inside

797
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 2: Market Street Park on the morning of August twelfth, twenty seventeen.

798
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 5: You know, I checked that.

799
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 3: Site every day that always laughed. It's you know, it's

800
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 3: it's a humor like that's how I get to be

801
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 3: a boy.

802
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 5: I think it's.

803
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's humor, but we mean it. Just moments before

804
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: this segment of the clip, Asmador had just finished telling

805
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: this man about how he'd assaulted several people the night before.

806
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: He was laughing and smiling when he said it, but

807
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: he meant it. Robert Ray died a fugitive. He was

808
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: charged with a felony for pepper spraying counter protesters who

809
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: were trapped by the ring of torch marchers. The night

810
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 2: before this, and he never appeared in court. And while

811
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 2: Fields may not have been in the discord, he posted

812
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 2: some jokes of his own about murdering protesters. In May

813
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen, three months before the attack, he posted

814
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 2: a meme on Instagram. The image is strikingly similar to

815
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 2: the photo taken of the moment his car hit the crowd.

816
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: It looks just like it. The text on the image reads,

817
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: you have a right to protest, but I'm late for work.

818
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: When he posted that image in May, I don't think

819
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 2: he was thinking to himself, I'm going to do this

820
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 2: one day. I don't think he was even thinking about

821
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: it on his drive here, but the idea lived in

822
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: his head. It was a joke, but he meant it.

823
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: It was normalized. It was normal to think of people

824
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 2: who protest Nazi rallies as subhuman, as enemy combatants. It

825
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 2: was normal to think about hurting them, shocking or upsetting

826
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 2: was funny. It was just a joke, but they meant it,

827
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: which is why I feel so sick Browsing the comments

828
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: on posts made today by mainstream MAGA influencers, the rhetoric

829
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 2: in these posts is as bad, sometimes worse than what

830
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: was posted in the Nazi rally planning chats. That protester

831
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: digestor meme, the one that Tyrone posted, and it ended

832
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 2: up entered into evidence in federal court to demonstrate the

833
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: casual attitude the rally goers had towards this kind of violence.

834
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: That meme is now being posted by people who probably

835
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: think of themselves as having pretty normal Republican politics, and

836
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: I guess by today's standards they do. Accounts with hundreds

837
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: of thousands of followers have posted it. People posting under

838
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 2: their real names, are posting it. Tech executives, small business owners,

839
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: federal employees. It's not just the radical fringe anymore. Average

840
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: suburban conservatives are posting the kinds of things that I'm

841
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 2: used to seeing with an exhibit number stamped on them.

842
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: There is a lot more to be said about the

843
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: rise in popularity among American right wingers of this very

844
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: particular form of violence, and I think I'm going to

845
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: have to revisit that history another day, because I think

846
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: it's important. This is a relatively recent phenomenon spiking dramatically

847
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: in frequency in the last ten years. Feels his crime

848
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: is not an isolated one. He was acting on a

849
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: fantasy that was common among his peers eight years ago.

850
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: That peer group was small. It was just around the

851
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: radical fringes of society where people felt comfortable talking about

852
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: this so often that it started to feel acceptable. And

853
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: now it's everywhere. Politicians, law enforcement officials are telling you

854
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: it's allowed. They're damn near encouraging you to go out

855
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: there and do it. And it's happened at least five

856
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: times in the last week. Keep an eye out for

857
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: each other out there. Don't ever assume that a driver

858
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 2: is going to behave rationally, because I have a terrible

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00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: feeling this is going to keep happening. Weird Little Guys.

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00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: It's a production of Poolzone Media and iHeartRadio. It's research,

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00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 2: written and recorded by me while I hunger. Our executive

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00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: producers are Sophie Lichtermann and Robert Evans. The show is

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00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: edited by the wildly talented Lorry Gagan. Theme music was

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00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: composed by Brad Diggert. You can email me at Read

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00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: the Guys podcast at gmail dot com. Definitely read it,

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01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 2: but I probably won't answer it. It's nothing personal. You

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01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners

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01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: on the Weird Lit the guys superad. It just don't

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Speaker 2: post anything that's going to make you one of my

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01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: rud of the guys.