WEBVTT - Behind the Curtain: The Science of the Grammys - Lab 124 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm t T and I'm Zakiah and this is Dope Labs. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.600 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.639 science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.919 The Grammys are in a week on February first. Who 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:30.480 do you think is taking home like Best New Artist? No, 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.480 I don't want anybody I like to take on Best 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.159 New Artists. I want them to have like Album of 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.760 the Year. I hear you, I hear you. Our boy 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.640 Leon Thomas. You yes, you've mentioned him a few times 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.800 on the show. He's up for Best New Artists. He 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.760 is not new to us, you know, right, And that 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.880 made me start thinking, like how does all of this work? 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:50.840 You know what I mean? 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.880 Because you've been talking about Leon Thomas for a long time, 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.400 and I remember Leon Thomas from like Victorious, you know, 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.240 like the Disney channelist stuff like that, and so I'm like, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.959 he's not new, but the Grammys are saying he's new, 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.720 and so that makes me question a lot of things 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.520 that comes to these awards ceremonies. Yes, you know, I 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.080 think it's time we lift the curtain and say what's 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:23.640 going on with the awards. The Grammys specifically let's jump 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.160 into the recitation. So what do we know? I know, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.560 the Grammys and low key, a lot of awards shows 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.720 feel like they are removed from what I personally am feeling. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.680 You talked about. Leon Thompson doesn't feel like a new 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.680 artist to me, but he's up for new artists there, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:39.960 and I feel like when it comes to that kind 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:41.880 of stuff, the only award I really trust to be 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.119 for the people and by the people is a Teen 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.320 Choice Awards at Nickelodeon. Okay, that's it. They always get 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.600 it right and they get into the slime just right. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.920 Okay, Oh my gosh. 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.080 So there are a lot of huge artists that are 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.600 highly decorated and get a lot of Grammy Awards, but 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.240 then there's also like this other murky side where there's snubs, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.240 and the snubs you feel impersonal and I don't know 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.639 how this works out. I'm like, who, wait before we 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.960 start jumping into the questions. Let's okay, let's figure out 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:17.840 what we want to know. And so my very first 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.320 question is who are these people? Who is the academy? 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:26.200 It feels very like Illuminati, but it's not because I 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.480 think you can find out who's a part of the Academy. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.160 We just never see these people, and so who are they? 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.040 How are they chosing? I like to take the Academy. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.239 Who is that? How do they choose the nominees? Yeah, 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.200 and how do they decide who goes into what category? 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.200 You know, we talked with cold before kol Kushna about 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.040 genre and categories, and new categories are popping up every year. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.240 How do they decide? Yeah, somebody like Doci, it's hard 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.560 to put her in just rap. She does, she does singing, 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.760 she does rap, she does pop like, she does a 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.280 lot of different types of music within her music. And 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.440 so I don't know how they make those decisions. And 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:11.679 so that's when we start to get into snubs, and 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.320 the snubs are feeling personal, and I begin upset and 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.040 I will turn the TV off. I don't care where 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.320 we are in the award show. If the person who 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.400 I feel like should get it doesn't get I'm like, man, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.239 and that's why I'm not watching with you. You need to 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:25.200 learn to control your emotions. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.320 Leave the TV on, turn the TV off, turn the 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.400 TV off, turn the TV off, turn the TV off. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.520 To answer all of our burning questions, because you can 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.360 see we have a lot we reached out to Sydney Madden. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.880 Hi, my name is Sidney Madden. I'm a music and 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:41.360 cultural critic for the. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.680 People like me, like Zukiya, who only see the red carpet? 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.520 Can you can you explain what the Recording Academy is, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.360 who are they and what the Grammys represent. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.640 The Recording Academy and the Grammys were created back in 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.640 nineteen fifty eight, and it was an award created to 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.960 recognize professionals, musicians and people working in the music industry, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.720 almost as an alternative because their qualifications wouldn't allow them 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.160 to get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.200 It's very much an accolade that has come to have 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.239 more meaning as time has gone on, but it's definitely 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.200 on the pomp and circumstance type beat. It is an 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.960 achievement unlike any other in the music industry because it 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:35.240 touts itself as the only award that is purely peer voted. 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.720 There are other award shows all throughout the year when 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.480 it comes to music and entertainment. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:41.480 So if you think about the. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.280 Mtvvmas, the BET Awards, or the American Music Awards, those 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:52.240 are awards based on streams or commercial numbers, selling numbers, 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:58.159 or just pop culture relevance and a publications co sign 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:03.080 of an artist. But the are fashioned as the only, 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.520 or I should say one of the only, because now 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.960 we have the Latin Grammys and the CMA. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:10.640 Is the Country Music Awards. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.479 It really just marks the top of the mountaintop in 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.320 the music industry because you have all of these people, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.240 all of these voting members of the Recording Academy, going 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.839 into their specific genre and giving you an official co 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.000 sign of your art. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:25.560 That you submit. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:32.320 So it just has this relevance and reverberation in culture 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.520 because it is supposed to be the pinnacle of peer 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.520 reviewed art and recognition. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.800 That's interesting. We have something like that in science, whereas 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.120 peer reviewed I. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.160 Was gonna say, I was lucky, gonna say, there's very 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.280 few things that can eclipse the Grammys. And if you 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.000 think about it, it's like, yeah, maybe we'ren't winning a Pulitzer, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.280 which one of our Grammy nominees that we're going to 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:54.680 talk about this year has already been. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.479 But he hasn't one album of the air, but he's 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:58.440 won a Pulitzer. 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:04.000 So very interesting. I noticed you were saying, like Academy 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.039 members first of all, I think it's great because you 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.279 gave us that history. There's an understanding of like the 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.760 Grimmers weren't always the only game in town and now 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.960 they're at the top. But when we talk about that 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.880 peer review, who are like the Academy members and what 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.800 do you have to do to get into that field? 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.279 Like who says like, okay, we deem you worthy to 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.480 be an Academy member or can you or do you apply? 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.480 Yeah, there's definitely tears in the Recording Academy and to 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.000 be an Academy member. You can be an Academy member, 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.160 but that doesn't mean you get to vote on the Grammys. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.280 To be a voting member in the Recording Academy, you 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.520 have to be a music maker. So you have to 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.719 be an artist yourself, a songwriter, an engineer, a record exect, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.839 a manager. You have to be someone who works in 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.920 the music industry very actively, who opts into Recording Academy 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.280 activities and buys into the Recording Academy all year round, 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.520 and I mean like buying culturally. And I think there 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.440 is a dues process that goes along with it as well. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.880 But you have to be an active member in good 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:10.120 standing and you have to be someone who touches music 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.240 at some point, you have to be someone who creates 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.240 music and puts it out in the world or has 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:14.800 a hand in it. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.160 That's really interesting because I thought it would be like 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.360 a bunch of like old folks, because sometimes the people 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.720 who win, I'm like, who does that hurt? 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.160 That was low key a problem for a long time, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.680 and that was a big critique of the Grammys. Like 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.160 a long running critique of the Grammy Awards is that 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.800 it's often behind the times. 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.880 Of what is actually covering, which is the music industry. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.640 So someone like Chance the rapper being the first person 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.800 to ever be nominated off a mixtape when we know 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.880 in hip hop mixtapes have been around since like the 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.720 inception of the whole art former culture and genre. Or 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.120 I'm reminded of when the former CEO of the Recording Academy, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.520 Neil Portneau said in twenty eighteen, women aren't getting nominated 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.600 enough for the Grammys because women need to quote unquote 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.840 step up in creating their music, which. 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.440 Is ridiculous, I mean sexist. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.640 Number one and just wrong because pop women in pop 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.520 and R and B ran the twenty tens, and he 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.760 said that in twenty eighteen, and he got a lot 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.640 of flak for that. I know, artists like Mariana Grande 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.440 called him out very explicitly for the sexist overtones of 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.239 that statement. And I think there has been a conscious 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.560 effort and a shift to diversify the voting pool in 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.480 the last few years. Neil is not no longer the CEO, 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.199 and the new CEO is a black man. There's new 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.439 black music coalitions that work within the Recording Academy, and 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:45.319 there's been a push to get younger, more diversified people 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.760 in the voting pool. Because what happens with the process 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:54.160 of even being nominated is you, as an artist or 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.520 a label or a management company, you submit for nominations right, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.840 and then it goes through whole checks and balances process 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.240 where people who are considered genre experts they have to 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.840 decide if you're submitting in the correct genre. And so 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.920 if the genre experts who are doing these checks and 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.880 balances aren't really someone who has their finger on the 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.160 pulse of what's happening in that genre contemporarily, that's why 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.319 a lot of stuff gets filtered through the wrong ways, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.800 and that's why a lot of things sometimes fall through 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.160 the cracks and become ineligible. But I think with diversifying 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.080 the voting pool in the last few years, we've started 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.520 to see somewhat of a shift in the categories and 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:36.559 ultimately in who wins. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.040 That's so interesting. Yeah, because I used to think ineligibility. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.280 I was like, oh, they must have had too many samples, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.600 like that is all I thought before. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.080 Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's not really I should say, like, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.679 as a disclaimer, I'm not a voting member of the Academy, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.840 so I'm just saying this from a purely reported point 0:09:58.840 --> 0:09:59.200 of view. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.640 I know, for example, this year, there's going to be like. 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:07.080 Ninety five categories being voted on, and two of the 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.120 new categories being introduced this year are Best Traditional Country 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.839 Album and Best Album Cover. So you can see how 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.840 the Recording Academy is starting to evolve with things that 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.040 hold so much cultural capital and cultural residence in these 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.400 specific genres. But also you can see where these delineations 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.079 are being made. After Beyonce finally one Album of the 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.480 Year for Cowboy Carter last year, they're starting to be 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.080 even more specifications in what is considered a traditional country 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.080 album and a contemporary country album and you see those 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.000 goalposts being moved very often in the face of a 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:54.840 big industry shaking win like Beyonce had last year after 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:01.280 so many years of not getting AOTY. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.880 When you said that new category for traditional Country, that's 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.600 exactly what popped into my head. I was like, this 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:23.480 feels like a direct response to Cowboy Carter, which is 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.360 so unfortunate because I mean, they're saying the quiet part 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.360 are aloud essentially, and it's really disheartening because that was 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.760 a country album. I don't understand what the problem is. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.240 She's from Texas, like, she knows this music, she has 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.120 the co sign of some of the country music greats 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.000 on her album, and it just seems like the industry 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.560 itself is pushing back on that. 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:51.760 When she finally won for Cowboy Carter in twenty twenty five, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.839 first of all, it was a direct response to Jay 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.920 Z calling out the Recording Academy in their own house 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.640 in twenty twenty four saying, this is one of the 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.400 greatest artists of our whole lifetime and she's never one 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:05.080 Album of the Year. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:11.360 World year, so even by your holy mestrige, that doesn't work. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.880 And she finally won, it felt like a bit of 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.959 a bitter sweet moment because it really should have been 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.440 for self titled. It really should have been for lemonade. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.679 It really really really should have been for lemonade. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:23.680 But now the fact that. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.520 She has that long sought after accolade to her name, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.600 a lot of people were like, Okay, well now she 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.520 can rest, what could she do next? And I'm like, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:37.040 we're still not actorly till out, first of all, And secondly, 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:42.160 it's kind of the idea that she once after so 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.240 long that goes back to the point I was saying 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:49.160 before of sometimes the voting members being behind and not 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.360 really having their finger on the pulse of what's happening 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.200 in their genres and what's happening in these fan bases, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.400 and what this music is doing to move whole communities, 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.120 whole countries. With this usic is doing to shine a 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.400 light on people who never have felt empowered in these 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.880 spaces before, right like what Cowboy Carter did to empower 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.480 black people who love country but never felt welcome in 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:18.400 the country space. Ironically, because country is a black and 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.360 indigenous art form like so many other things in the 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:26.360 United States of America, So shining a light on that disparity, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.880 shining a light on the irony and the racism baked 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.720 into a whole genre over time, but also low key 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.880 doing some things that let's say like play by the rules, 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.080 having that Dolly part and co sign, having that Willie 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.560 Nelson be the DJ, be the smoked out DJ. Those 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.760 are all very by the book moves that not only 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.120 made it this stamp of the flag and this dissertation 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.320 of a body of work, but also showed like, see, 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:56.720 these are the greats. 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.160 And they say, I'm undeniable. So what you gonna say? 0:13:59.240 --> 0:13:59.480 You know? 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.959 And I think in her winning for Cowboy Carter after 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.880 all of this time, if we are not explicit and 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.960 distinct and even repetitive, listen a hit dog will holler, 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.480 there's a possibility that it can now become revisionist history 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.360 that she wasn't denied that accolade for so long on 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.120 a prejudice of her not playing by the rules according 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:26.800 to the music industry standards. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:27.520 You know what I'm saying. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.000 I think about that a lot when we're getting into 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.160 this year's nominees, with Kendrick Lamar being going into the 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.360 ceremony being the most nominated artist again, I mean that's 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.960 not an anomaly for him. Every time he drops an album, 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.280 he comes through the next year being one of the 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.400 most nominated artists, if not the most nominated. You know, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.360 if Taylor Swift and him don't drop the same year, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.360 he's going to be the most nominated. I think he's 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.400 actually the only solo artist to have every single one 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.800 of his five consecutive albums be nominated for Album of 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.000 the Year, but he's never won it. And going back 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.640 to what I said earlier, this man got a Politzer Prize. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.200 But I've never won an Album of the Year. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:13.160 It's just those anomalies and those quiet laugh to keep 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.080 from crying type ironies that are baked into the Awards 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.760 show every year that I'm always on the lookout for. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.680 I think it's gonna happen very much again with the 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.080 storyline of Bad Bunny and dba's photos. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.960 I think it's going to happen with. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.480 I pause to say it, but kind of like Redemption 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:42.359 arc of Justin Bieber and him being experimental and unabashed 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.400 in his R and B and like almost indie rock space. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.080 But that goes into everything I'm saying. The Grammys represent 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.840 playing the long game in the music industry. That's, you know, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.479 if you want to go really macro and broad spectrum 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.600 with it. The person who when the Grammy is not 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.720 necessarily the person who makes the album or who makes. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.280 The song or the art that moves the culture. 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.000 It's the person and the machine around them who play 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:15.040 the game, who are very strategic and methodical and scientific 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.120 about telling the story that goes along. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:19.560 With the music. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.840 The idea that this is one night when everybody is 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.240 just tuning in and you can get put onto some 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.480 new music, you can learn about new artists. It's one 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:35.080 night if you're not consciously looking at music the music 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:36.240 industry all year long. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.120 But for anyone who's ever putting out an. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.640 Album, whether that's on a major label or an indie 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.440 distribution deal, or you're one hundred percent just indie yourself, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.920 if a label wants to go for the Grammy, they 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.800 are baking that Grammy strategy and that campaign to get 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.360 you a Grammy. They're baking that into the role out 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.720 plan before the public ever even hears the music. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:57.880 It's that methodical. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.000 I think this is such a good point because when 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.560 you just tune in, it feels like an upset when 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.360 you're like, this album was everywhere in my community. Everybody 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.280 was talking about it. Everybody was saving up to go 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.640 to the concerts and to see the tour. And then 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.560 you see it that it doesn't get recognized, but you've 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.080 just outlined that it's not just was it on the 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.040 tip of everybody's tongue? Was everybody reciting these lyrics? Was 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.119 it a hashtag all over? You know, you're telling us 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.480 kind of you're peeling the curtain back a little bit 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.080 and showing us like that there are campaigns that already. 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.600 I'm like, that introduces to me so much bias, because 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.080 who can campaign? What does a campaign even look like? 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:37.359 Money? 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.879 Money, money, and connects, money connects power. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:42.639 It's very similar to Hollywood. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.040 I think about, like what's happening with Sinners right now? 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.760 We know that Sinners was the movie of twenty twenty five. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.000 We all know that. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.840 That's not hyperbolieve like it was a box office smash, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.679 was a cult phenomenon. It's gonna go down as a 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.680 cult classic. It's inspired academic studies. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.080 It's inspired so many people. 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.880 To even get into screenwriting because of the ascension of 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:10.440 Ryan Coogler and his evolution from going from small budgets 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.439 to Marvel Movies to now owning his voice and his 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.360 artistry outright with it, right, like we know what it 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.080 is right that is undeniable, and yet you're going to 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:26.000 see over and over the kind of like the disappointment 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.200 and it be passed over for other movies that came 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.600 out this year, that came out on a bigger studio, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:37.200 or had a bigger budget, or just have the right people, 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.399 the right agents, the right lobbyists, honestly, Like that's what 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.280 it is like. You're lobbying for these awards every single 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.760 time you have the right people in your corner. I 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.360 think of a lot about how honestly, it's like a 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.520 pattern that happens in Hollywood a lot like a Nora, 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.920 for example, the studio behind a Nora, they spent more 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.840 money campaigning for Mikey Madden listen, to get that oscar 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.399 and to sweep the award show then it even costs 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.680 to make the movie, you know what I mean. It's 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.040 all like people kind of in the movie business, like 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.280 you big that into post production, the marketing of it, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.040 the schmoozing that has to happen, the campaigning that has 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.560 to happen to get an Oscar is that behind the 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.800 scenes work that so many people who are just a 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.680 casual moviegoer or just a casual music listener they never see. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.040 But it's very methodical, and there are people whose whole 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.800 job it is to just tap in and check in 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.800 with Recording Academy members and see, like start conversations and 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.520 keep conversations going about the validity of the album, about 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:46.879 the artistic vision, about the technical proficiency on display, about 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.240 the production value, all of these things. It's a strategy. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:51.160 It's very political. 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.520 We were talking about the Grammys and now you're talking 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.679 more like movies and like the Academy Awards, And this 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.119 is something that means a Keia actually talked about like 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.680 I think yesterday the day before when Tianna Taylor won 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.879 the Golden Globe for one battle and after another, and 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.280 we're also proud of her, but then you think of 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.000 this machine and then people saying, oh, she wasn't really 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:15.000 that good. It's like there's this tension there where it's 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:19.159 like we want the recognition and so how are we 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.000 supposed to feel about this Tiana Taylor Golden Globe? Was 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.800 it the right person? Was it the machine? 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:27.639 The role? 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:28.880 Yeah? 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.280 Yeah, Yo, don't even get me started on that, because 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.360 the two truths can exist at the same time. Tianna Taylor, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.040 we know, we followed her career. This is definitely a 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.600 crowning moment for her. That is kicking the door of 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.440 Hollywood in for her. But we know what she's been 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.440 capable of from jump. Really, if we don't talk about 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.800 real art, she should have won something for one thousand 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.440 and one, Yeah, twenty twenty four, Yes, like that's really 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.440 what it should have been. But that portrayal of black 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:04.240 womanhood and perseverance and resilience and quiet beauty and just strength, 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.439 they don't, like, that's not really what be rising to 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.080 the top in Hollywood. And that's that's the disparity of it. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.320 It's like, yeah, she's gonna play this over sex, gunslinging 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.000 Trader and she's honestly like the super nova in the movie. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.720 She's she's not even in majority of the movie. And 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.119 you know, the script is written. 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.879 Written by white guy, so obviously he's not going to 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.040 be able to have the dimension of the character that 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.159 you want. But so the true truths can't exist. She 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.720 can absolutely deserve the Golden Globe and this crowning moment 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.679 in her career and this arrival in a new space. 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.640 But for us who've always known her and who've always 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:44.840 known her as. 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:49.440 A champion of black womanhood, it can also feel very 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:53.159 tenuous because we know what she's capable of, we know 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:55.600 what she represents she we know who she talks to. 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.080 I think that's why she I think that's why she 0:21:58.160 --> 0:21:59.720 said that in her acceptance speech. 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.200 But it is a very classic pattern in. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:08.160 Hollywood that the black roles that actually win the biggest 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:13.480 awards are the roles that showcase abuse, or are pandering 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.119 or very stereotypical. I think you think of Lupita Niango 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.240 and Twelve Years a Slave. You think of Halle Berry, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.200 who's literally the only black women in the history of 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.800