1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiah and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: The Grammys are in a week on February first. Who 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: do you think is taking home like Best New Artist? No, 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody I like to take on Best 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: New Artists. I want them to have like Album of 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: the Year. I hear you, I hear you. Our boy 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Leon Thomas. You yes, you've mentioned him a few times 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: on the show. He's up for Best New Artists. He 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: is not new to us, you know, right, And that 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: made me start thinking, like how does all of this work? 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Because you've been talking about Leon Thomas for a long time, 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: and I remember Leon Thomas from like Victorious, you know, 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: like the Disney channelist stuff like that, and so I'm like, 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: he's not new, but the Grammys are saying he's new, 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: and so that makes me question a lot of things 19 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: that comes to these awards ceremonies. Yes, you know, I 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: think it's time we lift the curtain and say what's 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: going on with the awards. The Grammys specifically let's jump 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: into the recitation. So what do we know? I know, 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: the Grammys and low key, a lot of awards shows 24 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: feel like they are removed from what I personally am feeling. 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: You talked about. Leon Thompson doesn't feel like a new 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: artist to me, but he's up for new artists there, 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: and I feel like when it comes to that kind 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: of stuff, the only award I really trust to be 29 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: for the people and by the people is a Teen 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: Choice Awards at Nickelodeon. Okay, that's it. They always get 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: it right and they get into the slime just right. 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: Okay, Oh my gosh. 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of huge artists that are 34 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: highly decorated and get a lot of Grammy Awards, but 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: then there's also like this other murky side where there's snubs, 36 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: and the snubs you feel impersonal and I don't know 37 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: how this works out. I'm like, who, wait before we 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: start jumping into the questions. Let's okay, let's figure out 39 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: what we want to know. And so my very first 40 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: question is who are these people? Who is the academy? 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: It feels very like Illuminati, but it's not because I 42 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: think you can find out who's a part of the Academy. 43 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: We just never see these people, and so who are they? 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: How are they chosing? I like to take the Academy. 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: Who is that? How do they choose the nominees? Yeah, 46 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: and how do they decide who goes into what category? 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: You know, we talked with cold before kol Kushna about 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: genre and categories, and new categories are popping up every year. 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: How do they decide? Yeah, somebody like Doci, it's hard 50 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: to put her in just rap. She does, she does singing, 51 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: she does rap, she does pop like, she does a 52 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: lot of different types of music within her music. And 53 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: so I don't know how they make those decisions. And 54 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: so that's when we start to get into snubs, and 55 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: the snubs are feeling personal, and I begin upset and 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: I will turn the TV off. I don't care where 57 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: we are in the award show. If the person who 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: I feel like should get it doesn't get I'm like, man, 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: and that's why I'm not watching with you. You need to 60 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: learn to control your emotions. 61 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: Leave the TV on, turn the TV off, turn the 62 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 3: TV off, turn the TV off, turn the TV off. 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: To answer all of our burning questions, because you can 64 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 3: see we have a lot we reached out to Sydney Madden. 65 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 4: Hi, my name is Sidney Madden. I'm a music and 66 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: cultural critic for the. 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: People like me, like Zukiya, who only see the red carpet? 68 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: Can you can you explain what the Recording Academy is, 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: who are they and what the Grammys represent. 70 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: The Recording Academy and the Grammys were created back in 71 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: nineteen fifty eight, and it was an award created to 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 4: recognize professionals, musicians and people working in the music industry, 73 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: almost as an alternative because their qualifications wouldn't allow them 74 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: to get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 4: It's very much an accolade that has come to have 76 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 4: more meaning as time has gone on, but it's definitely 77 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 4: on the pomp and circumstance type beat. It is an 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 4: achievement unlike any other in the music industry because it 79 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 4: touts itself as the only award that is purely peer voted. 80 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 4: There are other award shows all throughout the year when 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 4: it comes to music and entertainment. 82 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: So if you think about the. 83 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 4: Mtvvmas, the BET Awards, or the American Music Awards, those 84 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 4: are awards based on streams or commercial numbers, selling numbers, 85 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 4: or just pop culture relevance and a publications co sign 86 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: of an artist. But the are fashioned as the only, 87 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 4: or I should say one of the only, because now 88 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 4: we have the Latin Grammys and the CMA. 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: Is the Country Music Awards. 90 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 4: It really just marks the top of the mountaintop in 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 4: the music industry because you have all of these people, 92 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 4: all of these voting members of the Recording Academy, going 93 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 4: into their specific genre and giving you an official co 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 4: sign of your art. 95 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: That you submit. 96 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 4: So it just has this relevance and reverberation in culture 97 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: because it is supposed to be the pinnacle of peer 98 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 4: reviewed art and recognition. 99 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: That's interesting. We have something like that in science, whereas 100 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: peer reviewed I. 101 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 4: Was gonna say, I was lucky, gonna say, there's very 102 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 4: few things that can eclipse the Grammys. And if you 103 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 4: think about it, it's like, yeah, maybe we'ren't winning a Pulitzer, 104 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 4: which one of our Grammy nominees that we're going to 105 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: talk about this year has already been. 106 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: But he hasn't one album of the air, but he's 107 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: won a Pulitzer. 108 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: So very interesting. I noticed you were saying, like Academy 109 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: members first of all, I think it's great because you 110 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: gave us that history. There's an understanding of like the 111 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: Grimmers weren't always the only game in town and now 112 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: they're at the top. But when we talk about that 113 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: peer review, who are like the Academy members and what 114 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: do you have to do to get into that field? 115 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: Like who says like, okay, we deem you worthy to 116 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: be an Academy member or can you or do you apply? 117 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's definitely tears in the Recording Academy and to 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 4: be an Academy member. You can be an Academy member, 119 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 4: but that doesn't mean you get to vote on the Grammys. 120 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 4: To be a voting member in the Recording Academy, you 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 4: have to be a music maker. So you have to 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 4: be an artist yourself, a songwriter, an engineer, a record exect, 123 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 4: a manager. You have to be someone who works in 124 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 4: the music industry very actively, who opts into Recording Academy 125 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 4: activities and buys into the Recording Academy all year round, 126 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 4: and I mean like buying culturally. And I think there 127 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 4: is a dues process that goes along with it as well. 128 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: But you have to be an active member in good 129 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 4: standing and you have to be someone who touches music 130 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 4: at some point, you have to be someone who creates 131 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 4: music and puts it out in the world or has 132 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 4: a hand in it. 133 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: That's really interesting because I thought it would be like 134 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of like old folks, because sometimes the people 135 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: who win, I'm like, who does that hurt? 136 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 4: That was low key a problem for a long time, 137 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 4: and that was a big critique of the Grammys. Like 138 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 4: a long running critique of the Grammy Awards is that 139 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 4: it's often behind the times. 140 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: Of what is actually covering, which is the music industry. 141 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 4: So someone like Chance the rapper being the first person 142 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 4: to ever be nominated off a mixtape when we know 143 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 4: in hip hop mixtapes have been around since like the 144 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: inception of the whole art former culture and genre. Or 145 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 4: I'm reminded of when the former CEO of the Recording Academy, 146 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 4: Neil Portneau said in twenty eighteen, women aren't getting nominated 147 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 4: enough for the Grammys because women need to quote unquote 148 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 4: step up in creating their music, which. 149 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: Is ridiculous, I mean sexist. 150 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 4: Number one and just wrong because pop women in pop 151 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 4: and R and B ran the twenty tens, and he 152 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 4: said that in twenty eighteen, and he got a lot 153 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 4: of flak for that. I know, artists like Mariana Grande 154 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 4: called him out very explicitly for the sexist overtones of 155 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 4: that statement. And I think there has been a conscious 156 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: effort and a shift to diversify the voting pool in 157 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: the last few years. Neil is not no longer the CEO, 158 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 4: and the new CEO is a black man. There's new 159 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 4: black music coalitions that work within the Recording Academy, and 160 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 4: there's been a push to get younger, more diversified people 161 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 4: in the voting pool. Because what happens with the process 162 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 4: of even being nominated is you, as an artist or 163 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 4: a label or a management company, you submit for nominations right, 164 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 4: and then it goes through whole checks and balances process 165 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 4: where people who are considered genre experts they have to 166 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 4: decide if you're submitting in the correct genre. And so 167 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 4: if the genre experts who are doing these checks and 168 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 4: balances aren't really someone who has their finger on the 169 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 4: pulse of what's happening in that genre contemporarily, that's why 170 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 4: a lot of stuff gets filtered through the wrong ways, 171 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 4: and that's why a lot of things sometimes fall through 172 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 4: the cracks and become ineligible. But I think with diversifying 173 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 4: the voting pool in the last few years, we've started 174 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 4: to see somewhat of a shift in the categories and 175 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 4: ultimately in who wins. 176 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. Yeah, because I used to think ineligibility. 177 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, they must have had too many samples, 178 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: like that is all I thought before. 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's not really I should say, like, 180 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: as a disclaimer, I'm not a voting member of the Academy, 181 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 4: so I'm just saying this from a purely reported point 182 00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 4: of view. 183 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: I know, for example, this year, there's going to be like. 184 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 4: Ninety five categories being voted on, and two of the 185 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 4: new categories being introduced this year are Best Traditional Country 186 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 4: Album and Best Album Cover. So you can see how 187 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 4: the Recording Academy is starting to evolve with things that 188 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 4: hold so much cultural capital and cultural residence in these 189 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 4: specific genres. But also you can see where these delineations 190 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 4: are being made. After Beyonce finally one Album of the 191 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 4: Year for Cowboy Carter last year, they're starting to be 192 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 4: even more specifications in what is considered a traditional country 193 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 4: album and a contemporary country album and you see those 194 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 4: goalposts being moved very often in the face of a 195 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 4: big industry shaking win like Beyonce had last year after 196 00:10:54,920 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: so many years of not getting AOTY. 197 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: When you said that new category for traditional Country, that's 198 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: exactly what popped into my head. I was like, this 199 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: feels like a direct response to Cowboy Carter, which is 200 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: so unfortunate because I mean, they're saying the quiet part 201 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: are aloud essentially, and it's really disheartening because that was 202 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: a country album. I don't understand what the problem is. 203 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: She's from Texas, like, she knows this music, she has 204 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: the co sign of some of the country music greats 205 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: on her album, and it just seems like the industry 206 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: itself is pushing back on that. 207 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 4: When she finally won for Cowboy Carter in twenty twenty five, 208 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 4: first of all, it was a direct response to Jay 209 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 4: Z calling out the Recording Academy in their own house 210 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four saying, this is one of the 211 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 4: greatest artists of our whole lifetime and she's never one 212 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 4: Album of the Year. 213 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: World year, so even by your holy mestrige, that doesn't work. 214 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 4: And she finally won, it felt like a bit of 215 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 4: a bitter sweet moment because it really should have been 216 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 4: for self titled. It really should have been for lemonade. 217 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 4: It really really really should have been for lemonade. 218 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: But now the fact that. 219 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 4: She has that long sought after accolade to her name, 220 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 4: a lot of people were like, Okay, well now she 221 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 4: can rest, what could she do next? And I'm like, 222 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 4: we're still not actorly till out, first of all, And secondly, 223 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 4: it's kind of the idea that she once after so 224 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 4: long that goes back to the point I was saying 225 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 4: before of sometimes the voting members being behind and not 226 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 4: really having their finger on the pulse of what's happening 227 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 4: in their genres and what's happening in these fan bases, 228 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 4: and what this music is doing to move whole communities, 229 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: whole countries. With this usic is doing to shine a 230 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 4: light on people who never have felt empowered in these 231 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 4: spaces before, right like what Cowboy Carter did to empower 232 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 4: black people who love country but never felt welcome in 233 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 4: the country space. Ironically, because country is a black and 234 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 4: indigenous art form like so many other things in the 235 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 4: United States of America, So shining a light on that disparity, 236 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 4: shining a light on the irony and the racism baked 237 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 4: into a whole genre over time, but also low key 238 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 4: doing some things that let's say like play by the rules, 239 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 4: having that Dolly part and co sign, having that Willie 240 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 4: Nelson be the DJ, be the smoked out DJ. Those 241 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 4: are all very by the book moves that not only 242 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 4: made it this stamp of the flag and this dissertation 243 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 4: of a body of work, but also showed like, see, 244 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 4: these are the greats. 245 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: And they say, I'm undeniable. So what you gonna say? 246 00:13:59,240 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: You know? 247 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 4: And I think in her winning for Cowboy Carter after 248 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 4: all of this time, if we are not explicit and 249 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 4: distinct and even repetitive, listen a hit dog will holler, 250 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 4: there's a possibility that it can now become revisionist history 251 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 4: that she wasn't denied that accolade for so long on 252 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 4: a prejudice of her not playing by the rules according 253 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: to the music industry standards. 254 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. 255 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 4: I think about that a lot when we're getting into 256 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 4: this year's nominees, with Kendrick Lamar being going into the 257 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: ceremony being the most nominated artist again, I mean that's 258 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 4: not an anomaly for him. Every time he drops an album, 259 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 4: he comes through the next year being one of the 260 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 4: most nominated artists, if not the most nominated. You know, 261 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 4: if Taylor Swift and him don't drop the same year, 262 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 4: he's going to be the most nominated. I think he's 263 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 4: actually the only solo artist to have every single one 264 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 4: of his five consecutive albums be nominated for Album of 265 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: the Year, but he's never won it. And going back 266 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 4: to what I said earlier, this man got a Politzer Prize. 267 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: But I've never won an Album of the Year. 268 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: It's just those anomalies and those quiet laugh to keep 269 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 4: from crying type ironies that are baked into the Awards 270 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 4: show every year that I'm always on the lookout for. 271 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 4: I think it's gonna happen very much again with the 272 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 4: storyline of Bad Bunny and dba's photos. 273 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: I think it's going to happen with. 274 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 4: I pause to say it, but kind of like Redemption 275 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:42,359 Speaker 4: arc of Justin Bieber and him being experimental and unabashed 276 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 4: in his R and B and like almost indie rock space. 277 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 4: But that goes into everything I'm saying. The Grammys represent 278 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 4: playing the long game in the music industry. That's, you know, 279 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,479 Speaker 4: if you want to go really macro and broad spectrum 280 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 4: with it. The person who when the Grammy is not 281 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 4: necessarily the person who makes the album or who makes. 282 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: The song or the art that moves the culture. 283 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 4: It's the person and the machine around them who play 284 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 4: the game, who are very strategic and methodical and scientific 285 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 4: about telling the story that goes along. 286 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: With the music. 287 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 4: The idea that this is one night when everybody is 288 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: just tuning in and you can get put onto some 289 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 4: new music, you can learn about new artists. It's one 290 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 4: night if you're not consciously looking at music the music 291 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 4: industry all year long. 292 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: But for anyone who's ever putting out an. 293 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 4: Album, whether that's on a major label or an indie 294 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 4: distribution deal, or you're one hundred percent just indie yourself, 295 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 4: if a label wants to go for the Grammy, they 296 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: are baking that Grammy strategy and that campaign to get 297 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 4: you a Grammy. They're baking that into the role out 298 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 4: plan before the public ever even hears the music. 299 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: It's that methodical. 300 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: I think this is such a good point because when 301 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: you just tune in, it feels like an upset when 302 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: you're like, this album was everywhere in my community. Everybody 303 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: was talking about it. Everybody was saving up to go 304 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: to the concerts and to see the tour. And then 305 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: you see it that it doesn't get recognized, but you've 306 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: just outlined that it's not just was it on the 307 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: tip of everybody's tongue? Was everybody reciting these lyrics? Was 308 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: it a hashtag all over? You know, you're telling us 309 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: kind of you're peeling the curtain back a little bit 310 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: and showing us like that there are campaigns that already. 311 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, that introduces to me so much bias, because 312 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: who can campaign? What does a campaign even look like? 313 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 2: Money? 314 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: Money, money, and connects, money connects power. 315 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: It's very similar to Hollywood. 316 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 4: I think about, like what's happening with Sinners right now? 317 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 4: We know that Sinners was the movie of twenty twenty five. 318 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: We all know that. 319 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 4: That's not hyperbolieve like it was a box office smash, 320 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 4: was a cult phenomenon. It's gonna go down as a 321 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 4: cult classic. It's inspired academic studies. 322 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: It's inspired so many people. 323 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 4: To even get into screenwriting because of the ascension of 324 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 4: Ryan Coogler and his evolution from going from small budgets 325 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 4: to Marvel Movies to now owning his voice and his 326 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 4: artistry outright with it, right, like we know what it 327 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 4: is right that is undeniable, and yet you're going to 328 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 4: see over and over the kind of like the disappointment 329 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 4: and it be passed over for other movies that came 330 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 4: out this year, that came out on a bigger studio, 331 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 4: or had a bigger budget, or just have the right people, 332 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 4: the right agents, the right lobbyists, honestly, Like that's what 333 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 4: it is like. You're lobbying for these awards every single 334 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 4: time you have the right people in your corner. I 335 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 4: think of a lot about how honestly, it's like a 336 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 4: pattern that happens in Hollywood a lot like a Nora, 337 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 4: for example, the studio behind a Nora, they spent more 338 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 4: money campaigning for Mikey Madden listen, to get that oscar 339 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 4: and to sweep the award show then it even costs 340 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 4: to make the movie, you know what I mean. It's 341 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: all like people kind of in the movie business, like 342 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 4: you big that into post production, the marketing of it, 343 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 4: the schmoozing that has to happen, the campaigning that has 344 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 4: to happen to get an Oscar is that behind the 345 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 4: scenes work that so many people who are just a 346 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 4: casual moviegoer or just a casual music listener they never see. 347 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: But it's very methodical, and there are people whose whole 348 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 4: job it is to just tap in and check in 349 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: with Recording Academy members and see, like start conversations and 350 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 4: keep conversations going about the validity of the album, about 351 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 4: the artistic vision, about the technical proficiency on display, about 352 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 4: the production value, all of these things. It's a strategy. 353 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 4: It's very political. 354 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: We were talking about the Grammys and now you're talking 355 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: more like movies and like the Academy Awards, And this 356 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: is something that means a Keia actually talked about like 357 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: I think yesterday the day before when Tianna Taylor won 358 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: the Golden Globe for one battle and after another, and 359 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: we're also proud of her, but then you think of 360 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: this machine and then people saying, oh, she wasn't really 361 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: that good. It's like there's this tension there where it's 362 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: like we want the recognition and so how are we 363 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: supposed to feel about this Tiana Taylor Golden Globe? Was 364 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: it the right person? Was it the machine? 365 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 4: The role? 366 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? 367 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yo, don't even get me started on that, because 368 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 4: the two truths can exist at the same time. Tianna Taylor, 369 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 4: we know, we followed her career. This is definitely a 370 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 4: crowning moment for her. That is kicking the door of 371 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 4: Hollywood in for her. But we know what she's been 372 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 4: capable of from jump. Really, if we don't talk about 373 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 4: real art, she should have won something for one thousand 374 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 4: and one, Yeah, twenty twenty four, Yes, like that's really 375 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 4: what it should have been. But that portrayal of black 376 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 4: womanhood and perseverance and resilience and quiet beauty and just strength, 377 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 4: they don't, like, that's not really what be rising to 378 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 4: the top in Hollywood. And that's that's the disparity of it. 379 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, she's gonna play this over sex, gunslinging 380 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: Trader and she's honestly like the super nova in the movie. 381 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: She's she's not even in majority of the movie. And 382 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: you know, the script is written. 383 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 4: Written by white guy, so obviously he's not going to 384 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: be able to have the dimension of the character that 385 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 4: you want. But so the true truths can't exist. She 386 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 4: can absolutely deserve the Golden Globe and this crowning moment 387 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 4: in her career and this arrival in a new space. 388 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 2: But for us who've always known her and who've always 389 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: known her as. 390 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 4: A champion of black womanhood, it can also feel very 391 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 4: tenuous because we know what she's capable of, we know 392 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 4: what she represents she we know who she talks to. 393 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: I think that's why she I think that's why she 394 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 4: said that in her acceptance speech. 395 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 2: But it is a very classic pattern in. 396 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 4: Hollywood that the black roles that actually win the biggest 397 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 4: awards are the roles that showcase abuse, or are pandering 398 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 4: or very stereotypical. I think you think of Lupita Niango 399 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 4: and Twelve Years a Slave. You think of Halle Berry, 400 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 4: who's literally the only black women in the history of 401 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 4: the entire Academy Awards to win the Oscar, and she 402 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 4: went it for Monsters Ball, not like Dorothy Dandres. 403 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's a classic pattern. 404 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 4: Same thing for Denzel, Like Denzel winning for Training Day Again, 405 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 4: he was the villain. 406 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: He wasn't that complex in that movie. 407 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 4: He acted the hell out of the role and we 408 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: remember him for it, But there are so many other 409 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 4: roles he's chosen over the years in his filmography that 410 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 4: represent us and our versatility, our beauty, our strength. 411 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 2: But like that's not what Holly is about. 412 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: You know, there has to be a payoff, right for 413 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: people to spend this much money on the art, for 414 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 1: people to spend this much money on the campaigning, more 415 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: money on the campaigning than the art. Sometimes, like you 416 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: just told us about what's the payoff? When you win 417 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: an award like a Grammy. 418 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: A Grammy is special for a few reasons. Like I 419 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: said before, it's the. 420 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 4: Only award as a musician that you can tell that 421 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 4: really says. It's peer reviewed and peer voted, and it's 422 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 4: like recognized by a jury of your peers of your 423 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 4: excellence in your artistry, like the master of your artistry. 424 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 4: So that's why it hits a little different, because it's 425 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 4: like people you know who work within your spaces all 426 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 4: the time are giving you that co sign and giving 427 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 4: you that recognition. And secondly, it's one of the most 428 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 4: recognizable awards internationally. So like I was saying before, you 429 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 4: can win You can win a BET award, you could 430 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 4: win a VMA, but those are based on the publications 431 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 4: themselves or the networks themselves, and they still exist in 432 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 4: a smaller cultural bubble. A Grammy exceeds all that. 433 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: I think. 434 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 4: For example, last year, one of the big breakout stars. 435 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: Was Chapel Roone. 436 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 4: Right, you think about it, like a lot of people 437 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 4: didn't even know who Chapelerone was until she won that Grammy. Right, 438 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 4: this is when you got to remember, like we all 439 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 4: do live in our own feedback loops, because I knew 440 00:24:54,119 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 4: who chapelone was twenty nineteen, but I also work I 441 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 4: worked at MPR, right like that, the it was my 442 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 4: job to know these things, right, And then she had 443 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 4: a tiny desk that went a little viral. But again 444 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 4: it's still little pockets, it's still little bubbles. All of 445 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 4: a sudden, if you want a Grammy, you could be 446 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 4: on a you could be on the cover of a 447 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 4: magazine and somebody like who would never have heard of 448 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 4: her before, is now gonna hurt. It's a platform and 449 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 4: a level of promotion that is. 450 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 2: Unlike anything else. 451 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 4: You don't win a cash prize, but it's one of 452 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 4: the biggest stages you're ever going to be on. 453 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: Right, similar to the super Bowl. 454 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 4: You don't get paid to do the super Bowl, but 455 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 4: the payoff tenfold is you get to save for the 456 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 4: rest of your life. You are a Grammy winner, you 457 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 4: are a Super Bowl halftime performer. 458 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: It's one of those accolades. 459 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 4: That like, it'll never get it'll never get old, it'll 460 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 4: always ring bells, that. 461 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: Gramophone will never lose its tarnish. 462 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 4: It's gonna hold value well after the years of you. 463 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: Being on the top of the charts or whatever it 464 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 2: may be. 465 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 4: It solidifies you as as a great in your as 466 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 4: a legend. And I say that kind of with the 467 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 4: asterisks in a caveat, because to me, it's not the 468 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 4: only thing that can solidify you as a legend and 469 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 4: as a culture shifter. I always think about how Bob Marley, 470 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 4: who is one of the biggest artists of any time, 471 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 4: not our time, not our generation, past generations. I've traveled 472 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 4: all over the world and I say, I'm Jamaican, and 473 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, Bob Marley, Like that's what it is 474 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 4: and what he did for the entire genre of reggae, 475 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 4: Like we're going to be feeling those reverberations for the 476 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 4: rest of our lives and well after. You know, he 477 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 4: didn't win a Grammy in his lifetime, so it's not 478 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 4: the only marker of success. It's not the only thing 479 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 4: that stamps to you as an icon. But for people 480 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 4: again who are casual listeners, it is really that stamp 481 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: of approval that is gonna just put you over the top. 482 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 4: It really matters about what you do after it, like 483 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 4: that level of ascension that you work towards after the 484 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 4: Grammy to keep that spot and to keep that prevalence. 485 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 4: But it's so much about I think that is so 486 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 4: much about your own artistic stretching and your own aspiration 487 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 4: to keep climbing and doing more. 488 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: After that, you're able to see the cracks in the 489 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: Grammys that the casual viewer might not end in the 490 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: music industry as a whole. So for you, if you 491 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: were designing like the sid Man Grammys, how's it looking? 492 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: What's different or is it the same? 493 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is such a hard question. Okay. 494 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 4: The big critique I have is that the Grammys move 495 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: a lot slower than the culture does, and in erecting 496 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 4: their icons, in signaling who's actually shifting things, who's actually 497 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 4: moving the needle when it comes to music and evolution 498 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 4: and pushing envelopes. It's kind of like when news breaks 499 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 4: in the first place you're looking is TikTok or x 500 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 4: or Instagram. 501 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: We're looking in the palm of our hands. 502 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 4: And then hours and hours later we're going to see 503 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 4: it on the eleven o'clock news. That's how it feels 504 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 4: a lot of times with the Grammys, accepted things a 505 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 4: bit more because you know, we care so much about 506 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 4: our fandoms. You know, the music is so important to us. 507 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 4: It's the soundtrack of our lives. So the category, for example, 508 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 4: the category is Best New Artists. I always watch that 509 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 4: one and I gotta take it with a grain of 510 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 4: salt because the only precursor to being a Best New 511 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: Artist is you never have to have been nominated for 512 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 4: Grammy before. So there's artists in that cat Yeah, Like 513 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 4: that's the So everyone in the Best New Artists category 514 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 4: this year and every other year, it's like we might 515 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: have known about them for us like huge fandoms, but 516 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 4: they finally when they finally like break in the industry 517 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 4: and they have a moment, then they are nominated for 518 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 4: the Grammy. And it's like, if you're nominated in Best 519 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 4: New Artists, now you could be dominating all those other categories. 520 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 4: So the only requirement to be in Best New Artists 521 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 4: is you. 522 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: You have never been nominated for a Grammy before. 523 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 4: So people in the past, like Sabrina Carpenter, she was 524 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 4: nominated for Best New Artists in last year's ceremony when 525 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: she had dropped four or five albums at this point. 526 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,719 Speaker 4: Going into this year's ceremony, Olivia Dean. This is her 527 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 4: sophomore album and it blew up and it really helped 528 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 4: her crossover and explode in the American market this year. 529 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 4: But if you are a super fan of British soul, 530 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 4: British R and B, like she's been in the rotation 531 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 4: a lot, I guess one thing I would change is 532 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 4: I would get rid of Besting Artist because honestly, what 533 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 4: even makes an artist new anymore? There's so much music 534 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 4: being uploaded to streaming services all the time. The bar 535 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 4: for discovery is a forever moving target, right, So that 536 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 4: idea that you're now new because the Grammy's finally heard 537 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 4: of you because the industry started to move their bells 538 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 4: and whistles for you, I would definitely get rid of that. 539 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: I did want to talk a little bit about out 540 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: your hopes for winners in the Grammys this year. Like 541 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: some of your I don't want to say predictions, more 542 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: so who you feel like should be getting that Grammy 543 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: for a Record of the Year. Who do you think 544 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: should win? 545 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: Okay, let me look it up. 546 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: So that's DTMF, Bad Bunny, Man Child, Sabrina Carpenter, Anxiety, Dochi, Wildflower, 547 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: Billie Eilish, Abracadabra, Lady Gaga, Luther, Kendrick, Kumar with Sizza, 548 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: the Subway, Chapelerone and apt Rose and Bruno Mars. There's 549 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: so many nominees, my goodness. 550 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: A lot of nominees. 551 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 4: The nominee ballads have gotten bigger over the years, and 552 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: even like I said at the top, this year is 553 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 4: going to be ninety five categories. 554 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 2: That's the most categories it's ever been. It's very stacked 555 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: up this year. 556 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: I okay, who who should win versus who probably will win? 557 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 4: Y'all don't make bets off me. 558 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: Okay. 559 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 4: I think who should win is Bad Bunny. I think 560 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: who's likely to win is Billie Eilish, Kendrick or Lady Gaga. 561 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 4: Because one, you could say number one, Billy Eilish is 562 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 4: a Grammys darling right her and Phineas they're locked in 563 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 4: as songwriters. So it's like going back to the argument 564 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 4: we said before. Once you win, they keep you winning, right, 565 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 4: Lady Gaga, this album, the myth making and the storytelling 566 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 4: around this album was very big all year, and like 567 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 4: I said, she had a huge headlining tour. Kendrick Kendrick 568 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 4: is going into the Grammys as the most nominated act, 569 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 4: and I think this collab with Sizza is one of 570 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 4: the most pop leaning but also true to form collabse 571 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 4: he ever done. It's like the perfect mix of airplay 572 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 4: but still keeping his artistry and keeping what makes him, 573 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 4: keeping that sauce intact. But Bad Bunny, Bad Bunny as 574 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 4: a record, all the songs as an album, just what it. 575 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: Did culturally this year. 576 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 4: I just first of all, I love when an artist 577 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 4: finally gets in that flow state and accomplishes what they've 578 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 4: been trying to do. 579 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: For a really long time. 580 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 4: Like Bad Bunny in the Reggaetone space has evolved the 581 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 4: space so much. He has never compromised promoting his culture. 582 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 4: He never started to try and sing in English to 583 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 4: cross over. He continuously has put on for Puerto Rico 584 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 4: and the West Indian diaspora. So what he did in 585 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 4: this album to kind of champion so many of the 586 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 4: genres that have come out of Puerto Rico, the cultural currency, 587 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 4: just like the richness of his culture. And also call 588 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 4: the fact that there's so much displacement and gentrification happening 589 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 4: on his island in very rapid secession and the aftermath 590 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 4: of Hurricane Maria all the way till now, and the 591 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 4: fact that again he's about to perform at the super Bowl. 592 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 4: He had this insane record breaking residency in Puerto Rico 593 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 4: that stimulated the economy of his island. On purpose, he 594 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 4: made the cognizant effort to not tour in the US 595 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 4: after so many years of touring in the US for 596 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 4: a few different reasons, one of the reasons being he 597 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 4: didn't want it to he didn't want it to be 598 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 4: a hotbed for no ice raids. 599 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: The fact that this is one of the biggest. 600 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 4: Albums coming out of the US at the same time 601 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 4: that these ice raids and this crackdown on the Latin 602 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 4: community in the US has reaching its boiling point. 603 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: Like that dichotomy is historic. 604 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 4: This is what I'm talking about when it's like these 605 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 4: are culture shifting moments. You know, He's made such a 606 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 4: nod to show respect to his elders, to his cultural lineage. 607 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 2: All the music that's coming out of Puerto Rico. 608 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 4: He sharpened that line between the New Yorrican like New 609 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 4: York Puerto Rico pipeline. He's invigorated so many people's interests 610 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 4: in Puerto Rican culture. He stimulated the economy, like these 611 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 4: are things that are actually gonna eclipse the Grammys the. 612 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: One night of the Grammys. 613 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 4: But it would be amazing to have the icing on 614 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 4: the top to win the Grammy, to like to have 615 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 4: that be part of the run. It's not the album 616 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 4: with the most socio political and cultural impact or that 617 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 4: makes the biggest ripple. That's not always the one that 618 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 4: does win for Record of the Year, Song of the 619 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 4: Year album. 620 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 2: But in my opinion, that's who should win. 621 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 4: If we're really making it about the artistry and the 622 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 4: power of what music can do, that's who should win. 623 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: I like the reasoning, and honestly, this lab has illuminated 624 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: so much for me. It helped me get out of 625 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: my own feelings. I was never at the p like 626 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: utt where I wanted to turn the TV off, but 627 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: I have been disappointed in the past. But I think 628 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: I have a little bit more context now, absolutely, and 629 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: it what Sidney, what you were able to do during 630 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: this lab was really show that there is a science 631 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: to awards. There's a science to all of these big 632 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: awards that are given out, and that's something that we 633 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: all just need to keep in mind as we are 634 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: not only consuming music, to not let these awards make 635 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: us feel like, oh, if our person doesn't get this award, 636 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: then that means something about how good they are. It 637 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: doesn't mean a thing because, like you were saying, Sydney 638 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: is not really based on the fans. It's based off 639 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: of the academy. These people who you know, work in 640 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: the music industry, and so you know, you got to 641 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: just take all of these awards with a grain of salt. 642 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: Respect to the Grammys, but we're sprinkling salt on top 643 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: of you. Season it up. You can find us on 644 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: X and Instagram at Dope Labs podcast. You can find 645 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: me tt on X, Threads and Instagram at dr Underscore 646 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: t Sho, and you can find zakiya at Ze said so. 647 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media. Our supervising 648 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: producer is Keegan Zemma. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited, 649 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: and mixed by James sparber Lemonada's Senior Vice President of 650 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: Content and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart 651 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: Podcast is Katrino. Norvil Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original 652 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex suki Ura, 653 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive 654 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.