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Speaker 1: Legacy goold dot com. Hey, welcome back. It's Mike Schellenberger.

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Speaker 1: This is KF. I am six forty sitting in for

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Speaker 1: John and Ken on the John and Ken Show. I

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Speaker 1: got acquainted with these guys because I wrote a book

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Speaker 1: that came out last year called San Francico, Why Progressives

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Speaker 1: Ruined Cities. It's a book about homelessness, drugs, the whole mix.

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Speaker 1: It's not lost on me when I host this show

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Speaker 1: that every time I'm on this show there's a news

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Speaker 1: segment about homeless and camp and fire. It turns out

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Speaker 1: that fifty to eighty percent of all fires put out

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Speaker 1: by the Los Angeles Fire departments are in homeless encampments.

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed hundreds of homeless people. I've been to the

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Speaker 1: I've been to the fires. The vast majority of them

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Speaker 1: are revenge fires, arson fires. Um, it's violent out there, guys,

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Speaker 1: It's dangerous. The homelessness is out of control. We're going

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation this hour about the homeless crisis.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna hear from one of the real leaders on

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Speaker 1: addressing the crisis. But first, I'm gonna play a brief

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Speaker 1: snippet from a forthcoming documentary that I am executive producing

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Speaker 1: on the truth about homelessness. Let's hear what let's say

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Speaker 1: what the homeless themselves have to say? Road Daylight. I

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Speaker 1: saw someone get raped, rapefully naked, robbed. You like someone

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Speaker 1: robbing with the machete today of all my stuff in

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Speaker 1: the head with ConTroll bars and bets, I do you

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Speaker 1: get shot in the back of the head. Somebody getting

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Speaker 1: shot did lead him? No, you will end up getting

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Speaker 1: the heart out here. Yeah. Other homeless people are like,

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Speaker 1: you're worth dying. Mans. People do not play out here. Besides,

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Speaker 1: I had weapons is prediculous, Okay, what kind of weapons?

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Speaker 1: Bad Hatchett's nice macs and what's your choice? Brother? That

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Speaker 1: you just heard a snippet of a forthcoming documentary, Truth

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Speaker 1: about Homelessness. I'm Mike Schallenberger, and I'm delighted to be

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Speaker 1: joined by my friends and one of the real leaders

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Speaker 1: on homelessness in Los Angeles, Reverend Andy Bales with Union

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Speaker 1: Mission Rescue. Andy, are you with me? I am Michael.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on the John

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Speaker 1: Kin Show with you. Yeah, thanks for joining. What a

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Speaker 1: trip that we're meeting in this way. You've dedicated your

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Speaker 1: life to serving and helping the homeless on skid Row

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, which if anybody's if you've ever been there,

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Speaker 1: it's shocking the amount of very sick people with drug addiction,

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Speaker 1: mental illness. There's a lot of violence. Give people a

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Speaker 1: sense of just how bad it is right now in

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Speaker 1: skid Row if you don't mind, sure. I had a

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Speaker 1: woman found a man wandering in her neighborhood who had

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Speaker 1: memory loss and was released from a care home wrongfully

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Speaker 1: yesterday and she said, I drove to your place, Andy,

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Speaker 1: and I can't believe the condition of skid Row. I'm

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Speaker 1: driving to the VA now and I'm heartbroken about the

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Speaker 1: condition of people in our city today. I just probably

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes ago, a man was stabbed outside on the

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Speaker 1: sidewalk and wandered into our fourier and our staff quickly

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Speaker 1: called the paramedics to come rescue him. And this is

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Speaker 1: a regular occurrence, stabbings, shootings, rapes. Unfortunately. We made a

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Speaker 1: video the other day and the woman, a beautiful woman, Alma,

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Speaker 1: one of our moms at Angela's house, said, we get

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Speaker 1: raped out there. Not you can get raped, We get

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Speaker 1: raped out there. That just haunted me to my very core.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Andy, I know if I asked you the

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Speaker 1: same question every time we talked, But what the heck

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Speaker 1: is going on? Why? Why don't we shut it down?

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Speaker 1: Why do we allow this? What does the mayor? Why

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Speaker 1: does the governor allow this to continue? We not only

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Speaker 1: haven't shut it down, we continue to corral and contain

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Speaker 1: people on skid row unfortunately, but it's not working. It's

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Speaker 1: happening now in every neighborhood of LA. Just to give

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Speaker 1: you an idea, New York needs to be our model.

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Speaker 1: New York counted thirty four hundred people on the streets

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Speaker 1: and they went subterranean. They went onto the Metro the subway.

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Speaker 1: They searched everywhere, thirty four hundred people. Just to give

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Speaker 1: you an idea. We have five thousand people homeless on

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Speaker 1: our metro. We have seventy thousand on our streets. New

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Speaker 1: York has one hundred thousand people devastated by homelessness, but

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Speaker 1: they only have thirty four hundred on the streets. We

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Speaker 1: have eighty six thousand people devastated by homelessness, but we

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Speaker 1: are approaching seventy thousand on our streets. And it's a

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Speaker 1: sheer lack of will to make sure that every human

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Speaker 1: being has a place to go. We do not make

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Speaker 1: it happen. In Los Angeles, we are the worst at

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Speaker 1: leaving people on the streets. No metropolis comes close. And

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Speaker 1: yet just a story, we have new data on deaths.

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Speaker 1: Three times more homeless people died in Los Angeles then

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Speaker 1: died in New York. Even though if you believe the

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Speaker 1: official statistics, there's fourteen thousand fewer homeless in Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: than New York. And there may actually now it may

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Speaker 1: be a little bit higher, but unless three times more

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Speaker 1: homeless deaths in Los Angeles than New York, and when

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Speaker 1: you look at the deaths, they're all related to the

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Speaker 1: fact that people are outside, they're getting run over by cars,

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Speaker 1: they're overdosing on drugs and no one's there to help them.

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Speaker 1: They're they're being killed, homicides. They're absolutely they're absolutely vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to everything that happens outside. And what's more shocking, I

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Speaker 1: just learned, Michael, there is a forty seven percent increase

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Speaker 1: in murders of homeless people this last year over the

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Speaker 1: past year, and one third of those deaths came at

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Speaker 1: the hands of cartels and gang members. So anybody who

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Speaker 1: thinks the drug trade is innocent and there's no victims

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Speaker 1: is absolutely wrong. And the drugs have changed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: now it's fentanylin meth, right, I mean, tell us, tell

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Speaker 1: me what what's what's what are you seeing with the

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Speaker 1: drugs that people are using. Well, mets was devastating enough.

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Speaker 1: Meth actually became the dominant drug among all ethnic groups,

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Speaker 1: and it has changed and shaped people's minds. And if

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Speaker 1: you wonder why there's so many people lost out there

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Speaker 1: on the streets walking around in a stupor, meth was

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Speaker 1: a good explanation for that. But that wasn't addictive enough.

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Speaker 1: So a guy named the Brain was hired by the

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Speaker 1: cartel to make meths even worse and more addictive, and

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Speaker 1: he created a synthetic hero and fentanyl in order to

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Speaker 1: add it to the meth to make it more deadly

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Speaker 1: and addictive. So anybody who's fighting for the rights of

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Speaker 1: people to use drugs in open air markets is fighting

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Speaker 1: for the rights of people to die a horrible death

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Speaker 1: and suffer on the streets until that death comes. Reverend

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Speaker 1: Andy Bales, you are doing the Lord's work. You are

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Speaker 1: one of the most not the most important homeless leader

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Speaker 1: and advocate in California, in Los Angeles. You're founding member

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Speaker 1: of California Peace Coalition. I am your biggest fan. People

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Speaker 1: can find out more about your work by going to

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Speaker 1: California Peace Coalition dot org or make and make a

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Speaker 1: donation if you can to Union Rescue Mission. Andy, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me. Thank you, Michael. And

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Speaker 1: let me just say at the end here, the best

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Speaker 1: thing you could do for people is what our government

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Speaker 1: doesn't do anymore. They don't support recovery programs like they

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Speaker 1: used to, and they just don't support transitional housing. And

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Speaker 1: we have miracles happen every day in our recovery program

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Speaker 1: and in our transitional housing. That's where people's lives are

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Speaker 1: turned her out. Amen, addiction recovery is possible. You're just

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Speaker 1: listening to Reverend Andy Bales and your rescue mission. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, Andy, and I'm Mike Schallenberger. This is

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Speaker 1: kf I AM six forty substituting for John Account The

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Speaker 1: Johny Ken Show. Stick with us. We got a lot

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Speaker 1: more on the homeless addiction crisis in Los Angeles coming

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Speaker 1: up next. Mike shell Burger. This is kf I AM

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Speaker 1: six or forty sitting in for Johnny count The Johnny

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Speaker 1: Ken Show. We're talking homeless crisis. You don't need to

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Speaker 1: remind it. It's there, but we got to get to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of why it's happening. Really excited about the

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Speaker 1: next guest. It's solidad Orsua. She is a member of

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Speaker 1: the Venice Beach Neighborhood Council, also a co founder of

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Speaker 1: the California Peace Coalition. You can find California Peace Coalition

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Speaker 1: dot org online. We have a comprehensive plan to shut

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Speaker 1: down the open air drug scenes, shut down the homeless encampments,

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Speaker 1: save lives. People are getting killed and raped out there.

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Speaker 1: We're organizing building up a lot of strength and power

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Speaker 1: and making a lot of friends. I've really come to

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Speaker 1: enjoy my friendship with Sola Dad. Are you there, Solo Dad,

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Speaker 1: I'm here. Hi. Nice to hear your voice. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining me. Thank you give us You have been out

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Speaker 1: there tracking very closely what's happening in Venice Beach, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the pretty I'm from northern California, it's

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Speaker 1: one of the I'm just discovering how pretty Venice Beach

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Speaker 1: is or should be. You and I went down to

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Speaker 1: the Venice Beach Library and saw a big homeless encampment.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like they've removed that. So are things looking up?

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Speaker 1: How are things looking And just for everyone listening, you know,

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Speaker 1: Venice Beach it's a three and a half mile seaside

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Speaker 1: community in Los Angeles, but today we have about two

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Speaker 1: thousand homeless people living on our streets, so we are

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Speaker 1: now second in size to that of skid Row. And

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Speaker 1: what we've really seen here is it's just been this

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Speaker 1: massive policy failure where you know, there's really there's no

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Speaker 1: incentives for our elected officials to solve the problem. We

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Speaker 1: see time and time again that lives are endangered, property

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Speaker 1: is destroyed, and we have these homeless encampments pop up

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Speaker 1: in multiple places. Many people remember the massive crisis on

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Speaker 1: the Venice Beach boardwalk that was last summer where there

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Speaker 1: were two hundred tenth So eventually our council members spent

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Speaker 1: five million dollars to put people into housing and do

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Speaker 1: the outreach. But then guess what. In January we started

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Speaker 1: having a problem at the Venice Beach Library and it

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Speaker 1: was recently cleared out. There was seventy five people there.

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Speaker 1: But again we saw, you know, we saw this documentation

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Speaker 1: of very violent fights going out. There were bonfires at night.

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Speaker 1: This is in a highly residential area. The library was

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Speaker 1: even set on fire, and you know, recently it was

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Speaker 1: cleared out. I think it might have been political because

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Speaker 1: Councilor Bonnen had invited Karen bats He's running fall mayor,

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Speaker 1: to Venice over the weekend. So I think that was

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons it was cleared And so now

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Speaker 1: we'll see is you know, the problems kind of swept

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Speaker 1: under the rug. But I think in a few months

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Speaker 1: we're going to see a whole other encampment pop out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the dynamic, right, And there was

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Speaker 1: we went and visited. There was huge Hulmeles encampments along

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Speaker 1: the beach. Sheriff came, he shut that down. They tried

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Speaker 1: to get some people into housing, but then a huge

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Speaker 1: new encam and grew up around the Venice Public Library.

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Speaker 1: If anybody that goes on Twitter can follow the drama,

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Speaker 1: thes basically the neighbors now you know, shoot videos and

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Speaker 1: you can watch them on Twitter. We know. The solution

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Speaker 1: is you can't allow homeless encampments. Women get raped and

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Speaker 1: then people get killed in them. These are open air

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Speaker 1: drug scenes. That's the technical word for them, open air

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Speaker 1: drug markets. So what's been the deal with the politicians?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got your mayor ran for office to

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Speaker 1: solve the problem. He then sounded like he wanted to

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Speaker 1: be ambassador to Indo. That didn't seem to work out.

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Speaker 1: George Gascon, seems like your DA seems like he doesn't

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Speaker 1: really want to enforce laws very much. You had two

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Speaker 1: cops just got killed. I saw, and I know Johnny

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Speaker 1: Canna been making trying to bring some attention to that tragedy.

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Speaker 1: What is the deal in Las? It just everybody's too

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Speaker 1: woke to want to enforce laws. What's the what's the

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Speaker 1: problem with your politicians. It's really a leadership issue. You knows,

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Speaker 1: everybody need marri gar Seti, he wanted to run for

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Speaker 1: presidents and so he's been missing in action in Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles for you know, the past three years, and so

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Speaker 1: it happens is his absence really left a vacuum that's

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Speaker 1: been filled by anarchy and lawlessness. So our fifteen city

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Speaker 1: count members, they basically act as demimayors and they direct

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Speaker 1: policy and policing in their district. So somebody has woke

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Speaker 1: as council Member Bonan, who I like to call Comrade Bonan,

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Speaker 1: he basically tells the police to stand down. He was

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Speaker 1: out there advocating for defunding the police. So if you

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Speaker 1: live in CB eleven, you know he's really the one

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Speaker 1: that's calling the shots. And you know, I hope that

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Speaker 1: we could have a mayor to really fix this, but

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Speaker 1: it's going to take someone really tough. I think that

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Speaker 1: it really goes against It's hard to them because a

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Speaker 1: lot of these people are career politicians. You know, their

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Speaker 1: campaign contributions are coming from these developers who are making

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Speaker 1: over a million dollars per unit, so the very lucrative business,

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Speaker 1: so and then they think, you know, they have to

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Speaker 1: go up against the ACLU. I think that they're just

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Speaker 1: all too weak. Need to really look at this crisis

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Speaker 1: for what it is, you know, crisis of addiction and

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Speaker 1: mental illness. And unless we get politicians elected who are

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Speaker 1: willing to do the hard work and to pick the

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Speaker 1: very difficult fights that need to be fought, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're really stuck with this mask. I mean, it seems

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Speaker 1: like nothing wakes people up more than having a homeless

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Speaker 1: encamp in near their house because they can see that

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Speaker 1: it's not just a bunch of like unemployed people who

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Speaker 1: like to camp out. These are folks suffering from serious

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Speaker 1: drug addiction, untreatedmental illness. You know, when you and I

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Speaker 1: went and interviewed people around the Venice Beach Public Library

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Speaker 1: and by the way, all these videos I posted to

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Speaker 1: Twitter Schellenberger MD at Schellenberg m D these you know

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Speaker 1: there's people involved in criminal activity. You know, we saw

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Speaker 1: very heavy pieces of equipment that people were using to

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Speaker 1: take apart bikes. People were pretty open about the drug

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Speaker 1: dealing and the drug use. I mean, what's it going

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Speaker 1: to take so dad to get people to wake up

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Speaker 1: to this. I can see that it's really head to

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Speaker 1: head now with with Karen Bass and Rick Caruso. What

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Speaker 1: do you find is persuasive to people for them to

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Speaker 1: understand that you have to shut down the homeless encampments?

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Speaker 1: You just can't allow them to exist. I mean, sadly,

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Speaker 1: it almost seems like unless you have one outside your house,

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Speaker 1: you don't realize what's really going on. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we've been to so many encampments together, you know, you

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Speaker 1: and I. We've been to the Tunderline, We've been to

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Speaker 1: skid Row, we did the Venice Beach Boardwalk. And what

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Speaker 1: was actually the craziest when we went to the library,

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Speaker 1: because I know, you remember that a van pulls up

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Speaker 1: and it's the La County medical van and somebody came

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Speaker 1: and he had this bucket and he dropped them off

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Speaker 1: for to them as medical supplies. Inside the bucket was

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Speaker 1: clean needles, narcan and a mess pipe. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: to me, that's drug paraphernalia. But you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: that La County considers these medical supplies. And it just

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Speaker 1: seems like our policy is so off because you're just

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Speaker 1: fueling this very violent drug addiction and you're just making

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Speaker 1: it's so much harder for people to get the help

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Speaker 1: they need to ask for help. And so it's just

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Speaker 1: this policy that is completely upside down. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: doing me with these people to get better. Do we

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Speaker 1: want them to stop using drugs? Do we want them

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Speaker 1: to come indoors? Because if that's what we want, our

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Speaker 1: policy is completely upside down. Well, thank you, We're enabling

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Speaker 1: We're enabling addiction. We're helping people to remain sick. So

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Speaker 1: that or so thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: Venice Beach Neighborhood Council also California Peace Coalition. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk more about the addiction homeless crisis. I'm Mike Sheellemburger.

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Speaker 1: This is KF I am six forty. I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: for Johny Keuna, John and Ken Show. Stick with us.

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Speaker 1: This is Mike Schellenberger and k I am six forty

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Speaker 1: sitting in for John and Keuna the Johnny Ken Show.

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Speaker 1: We're talking homelessness, the crisis on the streets of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: humanitarian disaster, mainly an untreatmental illness and drug addiction crisis.

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Speaker 1: So I've been paying a lot of attention and to

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Speaker 1: some of the world's top experts on addiction, one of

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Speaker 1: whom is somebody that got to know while working on

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Speaker 1: my book San Francico. His name is Keith Humphries. He's

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Speaker 1: a professor at Stanford. He is one of the world's

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Speaker 1: leading addiction specialists. He is somebody that explained to me

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Speaker 1: in the research why it's so important to intervene when

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Speaker 1: people are suffering late stage addiction because they've lost control

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Speaker 1: of their behaviors. Keith Humphries, are you there? I am,

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Speaker 1: and I'm delighted to support you in your new career

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Speaker 1: as a drivetime DJ. This is a this is what

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Speaker 1: you get when you come in third place in the

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Speaker 1: Gubernatorial Olympics in California. You get to be a drivetime

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Speaker 1: AM radio show host. Delighted to have this platform to

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Speaker 1: be able to highlight people like you. Keith, you have

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Speaker 1: been studying the addiction crisis for decades. You have so

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Speaker 1: much wisdom on this. Can you just help folks understand

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Speaker 1: you know what's going on. We are talking about the

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Speaker 1: addiction crisis, what we call the homelessess crisis. What what's

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Speaker 1: happening and what needs to happen, So you know, addiction

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Speaker 1: is a legitimate disorder. It really is a health problem.

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Speaker 1: That is certainly true, but it is not the same

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Speaker 1: as say, chronic pain or depression, which are conditions that

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Speaker 1: people will crawl through one hundred yards of broken glass

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Speaker 1: to get rid of. Unambivalently be delighted to be free

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Speaker 1: of the symptoms of it. Whereas addiction, even when it's

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Speaker 1: destroying your life, still has moments of intense reward. Using

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Speaker 1: fentyl is extremely rewarding, Using cocaine and meth and fetament

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Speaker 1: is extremely rewarding, even if everything else is falling apart.

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Speaker 1: So the population with the problem tends to be ambivalent

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Speaker 1: about giving it up. It's not the case that if

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Speaker 1: you just offer treatments everyone will come rushing in. They

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Speaker 1: usually come in because they're under some kind of pressure,

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Speaker 1: you know. Sometimes that's from family. Sometimes that's from a

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Speaker 1: doctor saying you keep doing this, you're going to die.

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Speaker 1: So it's their boss saying you keep doing this, you'll

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Speaker 1: fire you. But the other sources, you know the law,

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Speaker 1: and if you take all that away, and we have

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Speaker 1: kind of taken that away in some of our California cities,

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Speaker 1: you should expect there to be a lot of entrenched

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Speaker 1: addiction and a lot of harm, both people who suffered

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Speaker 1: from but also the people around them. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: had seventeen thousand drug overdose and poisoning deaths in a

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Speaker 1: year two thousand. This year we're going to have something

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Speaker 1: like a hundred and seven thousands. It's an increase of

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Speaker 1: eighty thousand deaths a year. I mean, it's just heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when I ask people, isn't a

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Speaker 1: half of everybody, if not more, have some experienced family

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Speaker 1: and friends suffering addiction. It's like we all know that

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Speaker 1: some kind of an intervention is required. We have a

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Speaker 1: TV show called Intervention. You know, we've known since f

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years, you've got to intervene. Why

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Speaker 1: are we being so stupid about this in California? Why

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Speaker 1: are we letting people die? And not just California, right,

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Speaker 1: but why are we letting people die rather than intervening?

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Speaker 1: Is what's going on. It's a good question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is a very stigmatized condition. So you know, the

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Speaker 1: awful truth is there at least some people when they

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Speaker 1: hear about someone who suffers some an addiction dying, thinks

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Speaker 1: well good, you know, a bad person has been eliminated,

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Speaker 1: and they don't care and that's cool and sad what

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Speaker 1: but I actually that is not the general feeling in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco or Los Angeles. I'm impressed how much people

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Speaker 1: do care. They really do want to do something, and

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Speaker 1: they spend a lot of money and they create a

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Speaker 1: lot of services. So there's a lot of good intentions,

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Speaker 1: but there's just a misunderstanding of what the condition is like,

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Speaker 1: and that the belief that people will just voluntarily come

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Speaker 1: in and try to change is really unlikely. And you

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Speaker 1: gotta remember too, particularly the homeless population, a huge number

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Speaker 1: of them are already detached from all of the social

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Speaker 1: and family ties that might have gotten them straightened out,

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Speaker 1: whether that was saying you really need to do this,

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Speaker 1: or I'm leaving, or I love you and I need

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Speaker 1: you to do this, please do it because I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to see you live our golden years

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Speaker 1: out together. And so people are detached from all that.

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Speaker 1: So if you and any of a culture around it,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of pro intoxication, pro drug, which is definitely

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Speaker 1: true in San Francisco. There's not a lot of reason

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Speaker 1: to stop. Yeah, I mean, if you're on the streets,

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Speaker 1: living on the streets, you've been disaffiliated that's the technical

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Speaker 1: word from family and friends. Alienated from family and friends,

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Speaker 1: so they can't intervene anymore. It's up to the police

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Speaker 1: in the society to make an intervention. And we're so liberal.

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Speaker 1: As part of the reason we love it out here.

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Speaker 1: We're very liberal people. We like we like our wide

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Speaker 1: acceptance of different lifestyles. That's why we're on California as

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Speaker 1: part of the reason anyway. But it's just gone too

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Speaker 1: far and we won't actually make the interventions that we

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Speaker 1: need to make. You know, what you talked to Paul,

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Speaker 1: You talked to politicians and Paul's makers. What what convinces them? What?

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Speaker 1: What do you say to them that helps them to

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Speaker 1: get their head screwed on right? Losing elections is very convincing. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I talked to some folks in Seattle, you know,

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Speaker 1: before the city attorney election. I said, no, why don't you,

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Speaker 1: you know, do at least some things I get just

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Speaker 1: with people who have an addiction and who break into

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Speaker 1: a house, could we do something in that case? Like no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, we can't do anything that that that's against

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Speaker 1: the ethos. But then the city at you know, the

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Speaker 1: city that voted eight percent for Donald Trump two years

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Speaker 1: later votes fifty five percent for Republican city attorney who

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Speaker 1: promises to crackdown. That alerts people to the fact that

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Speaker 1: there's a limit to how much even a very generously

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Speaker 1: spirited public will take same thing in San Francisco, as

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, the DA has been voted out

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Speaker 1: of office. That is a wake up called people like

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Speaker 1: you know this. This approach is not tolerable because it

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Speaker 1: does too much harm to communities. And that's the thing

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Speaker 1: I would I would call in a harm reduction is

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Speaker 1: a great idea as part of how we respond, but

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Speaker 1: it has to include everybody, including people who don't use drugs.

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Speaker 1: In the sort of weird place I find myself advocating

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Speaker 1: for in San Francisco is saying, you know, people who

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Speaker 1: don't use drugs who live in the Tenderloine matter two,

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Speaker 1: we should care about harm to them. An open air

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Speaker 1: drug theme with guys on the corner selling fatanel with

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Speaker 1: guns in their their belt and parents having to walk

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Speaker 1: their kids past that that is harmful to them. And

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Speaker 1: harm reduction can't be just about you know, people who

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Speaker 1: use drugs and people are addicted at the expense of

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Speaker 1: everybody else. It has to be for the whole population.

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Speaker 1: That is the origin of it. But it's kind of

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Speaker 1: morphed into this weird sort of I think libertarian. You know,

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Speaker 1: theification of the people who are addicted to drugs, and

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Speaker 1: that was never what it was supposed to be. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's become pathological altruism. You know. One of the most

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Speaker 1: shocking things. If you go to Amsterdam, you go to Lisbon,

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Speaker 1: you go to Europe, they don't allow people to use

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Speaker 1: drugs in the street. So they don't allow open air

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Speaker 1: drug use. This is this is not humane, this is

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Speaker 1: not civilized. We've got to bring it to an end. Keith,

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Speaker 1: you've been such an important voice on this. Last word

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Speaker 1: to you, what do we need to do to get

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Speaker 1: our to make a change here in California. We need

428
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: to remember that, you know, good intentions do not guarantee

429
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 1: good results, and that it is not necessarily cruel at

430
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: all to help someone who is not in a position

431
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: to help themselves. And yes, that sounds a bit paternalistic,

432
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm aware of that, but there are moments we all

433
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: recognize when someone is in a state where they can't

434
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: take care of themselves, and that's where if you care

435
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: The right thing to do is not to say, well,

436
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: that's their choice, but to say, hey, you know, I'm

437
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: going to help you. I'm going to be the one

438
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: who who pulls you out of this until you can

439
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: get on your feet and be the captain of your

440
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: own ship again. Keith Humphries, you are professor at Stanford.

441
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Mike Schellenberger.

442
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: This is k IF. I am six forty sitting in

443
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: for Johny Count of The Johnny Ken Show. Stick with us.

444
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: We got a testimony next from someone that was a

445
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: homeless drug addict on the streets of San Francisco how

446
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: he turned his life around. Stick with us. But it's

447
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: Mike Shellembergeran's KF. I am six forty sitting for John

448
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: and Count on the Johnny Ken Show. We've been talking

449
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: homelessness addiction. Really excited about this next guest, someone who

450
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: was suffered a serious drug addiction, lived on the streets

451
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: of San Francisco as a homeless person for several months.

452
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: He's now an outspoken advocate for addiction recovery. Before we

453
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: go to him, I'm just gonna play a snippet of

454
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: a forthcoming documentary that he is in. I've been playing

455
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: little bits of It's the Truth about Homelessness, a documentary

456
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm involved with as well. Here we Go. They kind

457
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: of just kind of quid society this right now is

458
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: it's literally by choice. Did you get the sense they're

459
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: out of care of whether they're wrong? Version? No, And

460
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be like crazy with it, but

461
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: definitely not. I mean, we're gonna be realistic. They pay

462
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: you to be homeless here if they make it so

463
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: easy and normalize it. Drug dealers are just being let

464
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: go over and over and over. It's like the cops

465
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: are It's like they're your neighbor, you know. They enable

466
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: them because they allow the opening drug market, open street,

467
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: damning like that. The cops just across the street like

468
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: watching them. I think they've given up on the people

469
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: that are out there on the street. I've never seen

470
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: anything like it. I've been in the game in thirty years, dude,

471
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: never seen anything like you. I'm very happy to introduce

472
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: next guest is Tom Wolf. He's the founder and president

473
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: of the Recovery Education Coalition and Tom Wolf, are you

474
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: with me? I am Michael. Thank you so much for

475
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: having me. Yeah, glad you're here. Tell us a bit

476
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: about what happened to you. You were working a regular

477
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: middle class job and you ended up on the streets.

478
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: What happened, oh man? I had in early twenty fifteen,

479
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: I had surgery on my foot and I was prescribed oxycodown.

480
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: I got addicted to those pills. I couldn't get anymore

481
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: from my doctor, so I went to the street and

482
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: I started purchasing them on the street. I found the

483
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: corner of Pill Hill, which is Golden Gate eleven Worth

484
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: in the Tenderloin in San Francisco, started buying pills out

485
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: there for thirty dollars a pop, and over the next

486
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: couple of years that addiction progressed into heroin and eventually fennel,

487
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: which led to my homelessness, where I ended up spending

488
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: about six months sleeping hard on the street to San

489
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: Francisco with a needle sticking out of my neck. There's

490
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: no other way to say it. So, how'd you finally

491
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: would finally turn things around for you? What did it take?

492
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: I was intervened upon by the police. I ended up

493
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: getting arrested six times in a three month period. In

494
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, I had become a mule for the drug dealers.

495
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: I was holding drugs for them on the street as

496
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: a way to support my habit, and I started getting

497
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: arrested for doing that. I was carrying large amounts of

498
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: drugs on me. I kept getting arrested and then being

499
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 1: released back into homelessness over and over and over, and

500
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: after the sixth time, they decided to keep me in

501
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: custody for a while for about three month where I

502
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: actually got sober. And then from there I went to

503
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: a six month drug rehab where I found recovery. You know,

504
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: I've been clean ever since. And this Thursday, Michael, I

505
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: will have four years clean. And so congratulations, brother, I'm

506
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: really proud of you. It's a different story than the

507
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: one you hear. I mean, the story we hear is

508
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: that nothing can be done. If someone's a homeless drug addict,

509
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: you can't do anything. You shouldn't arrest them. That would

510
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: be the worst thing in the world is to arrest

511
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: them and mandate drug treatment. You're saying it saved your life, right,

512
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: And not only are they saying they can't do anything,

513
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: they're saying that they should support drug users and their

514
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: addiction and perpetuity while they're out on the street. That

515
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: that's really the wrong approach. So look, myself and most

516
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: of my friends that I know that are in recovery,

517
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: we were all intervened upon at our lowest point, and

518
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: that's what it took for us to actually turn things

519
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: around and you know, and get some help, the help

520
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: that we needed. If you're just left to your own

521
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: devices out there and you're using inconel, there is no

522
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: way out. The only way out for you at that

523
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: point is death. And that is reflected in the overdose desks,

524
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: which are averaging fifty every month in San Francisco. You

525
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: could have been one of them if you had stayed

526
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: out there. I have no doubt in my mind that

527
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: if I had not been intervened upon, I would not

528
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: be talking to you right now. I would either still

529
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: be out there on the street, but most likely I

530
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: would be dead. Why don't we hear more stories like yours? Tom,

531
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you have, You're basically a celebrity in San Francisco. Now.

532
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're getting you into the LA. Folks in

533
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: La can hear about you. But I meet so many

534
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: recovering addicts and they are that You guys are the

535
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: best spokespeople against the argument that nothing can be done,

536
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: this addiction pessimism, this, and it's really very cynical and cruel.

537
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: But why don't we hear more from people like you?

538
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: It is it? Are people scared to speak out? Is

539
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: it that you don't have any money to start organizations? Like?

540
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: What is it? The why? Why? Why do we not?

541
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: Why do we hear so much that you can't do

542
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: anything about addiction? And we hardly ever hear anymore that

543
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: people actually need to have an intervention to turn their

544
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: lives around. Well, and that's that's a great question, Michael. Look,

545
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: there's twenty three million people in recovery in the United States,

546
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: either from alcoholism or from drug use. But getting people

547
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: to share their stories another issue. It's a very private thing,

548
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: so some people aren't willing to share. There is that

549
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: whole degree of anonymity for some people. And then some

550
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: of it is just that, you know, policymakers have long

551
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: ignored voices in recovery, people that have lived through that

552
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: and then are now on the other side. And most

553
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: of the time that's ignored because of ideological reasons. Because

554
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: those of us in recovery tend to have a different

555
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: view of what it takes to get off the street,

556
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: and we have that view because we actually have to

557
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: go through it. And it's just amazing to me that

558
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: more politicians aren't listening. And that's you know, that's what

559
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing now. I'm trying to raise up voices of recovery,

560
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: not just myself, but other people in recovery. I have

561
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel now where I'm interviewing people and in

562
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: recovery to get their voices out there because we want

563
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: to see at the table both at local, state and

564
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: the federal levels when in making drug policies so that

565
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: we can try to turn the ship around. Tom Wolf,

566
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: you are the founder of Recovery Education Coalition. You're a

567
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: hero of mine and I think people that have been

568
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: through recovery are some of the best people, some of

569
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: the funniest, most humble, interesting people I've ever met. You're

570
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: also probably California Peace Coalition. There's so much more to

571
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: say on this issue. I'm Mike Schallenberger. This is KF

572
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: I am six forty sitting in for the John and

573
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: Count of John and Ken Show. Stay tuned, we got

574
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: UFOs coming next. But stay tuned Devermark has a news update.

575
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