WEBVTT - Fulfillment Over FIRE w/ Dr. Jordan Grumet #929 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.040 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.000 today we're talking fulfillment over fire with doctor Jordan Grummitt. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.920 Yeah, what does it mean to pursue joy and purpose 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.000 in your life? Is this like some sort of eternal 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.440 scavenger hunt where we're hoping to find something that is 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.239 just out of reach right where it's just like it's 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.120 just hidden behind the next corner. Or is it something 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.200 that we're able to achieve because it's something that we've created. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:44.839 And I think our guests today would argue that it's 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.760 more of the latter. We are joined by our friend, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.199 doctor Jordan Grummitt to talk less about the what and 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.840 the how behind personal finance and more about the why 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.600 and how our money is one of the many tools 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.000 that will allow us to achieve our end visual sense 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.639 of purpose. In his new book, The Purpose Code, it 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.320 delves into these more amorphous topics in a way that 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.800 allows readers to have a sense of clarity and understanding, 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.800 even like a to do list, as Jordan prescribes different 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.400 actions to take in his book. And so we're excited 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.399 to talk about all of that and more. Jordan aka 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.679 dot G, thank you so much for joining us today 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:23.360 on the podcast. 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.679 Ohs, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:26.440 for this conversation. 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.520 Yes too, Man and Man, if you let me blurb 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.080 your book, I would have said, if you like the 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.440 Da Vinci code, you'll love the Purpose code. They're very similar, right, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:34.759 a lot. 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.199 Of overlap, of course, of course, exactly. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:37.479 Yeah. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.520 Well, the first question we ask everyone who comes on, 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.120 and Jordan, you've been on the podcast before, but what 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.600 do you like to sporge on? What's your craft beer equivalent? 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.840 You're obviously smart with money, investing, saving for your future, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:49.560 but you're spourging a little bit in the here and 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:50.880 now too. I'm assuming, right. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.440 I am, and my daughter and I like to go 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.720 to Barnes and Noble and buy lots of books. I 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.240 know you can get them in the library. I know 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.120 you can get them other places. It's kind of fun 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.800 to sometimes buy a new book. And she loves to 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.360 do it, and I love to do it. I like 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.520 reading crime novels, I like reading fantasy. I'm still a 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.240 big Lord of the Rings fans. Yeah, okay, quickly, it's 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:15.120 we're spending money on. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.320 What do you think of the new series Rings The 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.040 Power specifically the second season. Jordan. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.920 So I have only got to like the first episode 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.000 of the second season, but I'm biased because I like 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.079 the feel. So it doesn't even matter the plot line. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.440 I just like the kind of. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.480 The fact that you have been thrust into Tolkien's universe 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:34.280 makes you happy. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.200 That's like, that's mad Men for me. The feels so 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.920 delightful that I'm just like, I don't even care if. 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.000 Joel just wants to kick back and smoke cigarettes and 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.000 drink scott while on the job. I mean they really 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:45.040 made close. 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.040 They really make it look good that drinking Scotch in 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:48.600 the middle of the day, like when you're waiting for 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.079 clients to come. I mean, it does look pretty cool. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.840 Yeah, sure, never minds the rosis of the livery it was, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.240 it wasn't a thing back then. It didn't exist. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:58.400 It didn't exist. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.200 It was Jordan, let's talk of. So, your last book 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.520 was taking Stock, and I originally when we met you, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.639 like we knew you as like a financial independence guy. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.880 But more and more it seems like you've been pivoting, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.760 talking a good bit more about meaning and more about purpose, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.320 and so I guess what prompted you to pivot and 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.400 go in that direction even more with your latest book. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.760 It was actually my first book, Taking Stock, that led 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.880 to writing the Purpose Code, and the reason why is 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.840 a main premise of that first book is that we 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.359 should put purpose, identity, and connections before building a financial framework. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.320 So I was steeped in the financial independence movement. I 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.200 was talking to people all the time about it, and 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.320 they could tell me how much or how, but a 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:40.000 lot of times they couldn't tell me why or what 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.280 enough looks like. And that's why I wrote that first book, 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.640 The Purpose taking Stock. But the problem was when I 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.720 went to market it, and I'd go and do speeches 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.960 and go to conferences, people would come up to me 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.840 after my talks and they'd be kind of angry. And 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:56.560 the first time this happened, I thought, well, it's a 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.360 one off, no big deal. But it happened over and 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.480 over again, and they'd all say the same thing. They'd say, Look, 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.840 you keep on telling me I need to find my purpose. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.480 I have no idea what my purpose is. It's making 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.560 me really anxious and in fact, I don't think there 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.640 is a purpose. Stop telling me to find my purpose. 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.160 And of course this sent me down a huge rabbit hole. 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.040 I'm like, Okay, I know purpose is super important, but 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.360 I also know people get really anxious. And I looked 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.200 at the data. And when you go down there and 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.000 you look at all the data, you find that having 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.560 a sense of purpose in life is clearly associated with health, longevity, 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.359 and happiness. There are tons and tons of studies. On 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:34.960 the other hand, there are other studies that show that 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.200 up to ninety one percent of people, at some point 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.679 in their life get purpose anxiety. This idea of purpose 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.839 actually makes them frustrated or anxious. So the question is, 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.520 how could it be both. It's a paradox, and that's 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.160 why I wrote this book to help resolve this paradox. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.000 Help you find more of that health, happiness, and longevity 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:53.599 and stay away from the anxiety. 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:54.640 That is. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.760 Yeah, the whole purpose thing, it feels like one of 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.520 those things where you maybe some people from early on, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.599 they put their finger on it and they're living it 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.840 out the rest of their lives. Then other people, I 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.000 don't know, maybe their purpose morphs or changes. And I 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.479 feel like I've lived many lives in one lifetime. I 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.680 don't necessarily know that I have one overarching purpose, but 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.320 I've had different ones over time, and I think when 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.120 we talk about purpose, a lot of people assume that 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.680 their job or their career is supposed to be kind 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.080 of that essential, that fulcrum of their purpose. But then 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.000 that can it's depending on what your job is too, 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.640 can maybe leave a lot to be desired. What are 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.039 your thoughts about how your career fits into your purpose 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.080 and how people think about that. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.039 Here's the problem. People think purpose is like this big 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.599 thing that I either find it and life is good 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.400 or I miss it in life is horrible. The truth 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.880 of the matter is purpose is many different things, and 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.520 you can have kind of these versions of purpose that 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.200 take up your whole life, and then their versions of 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.599 purpose you only have in smaller seasons, maybe for weeks 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.480 or months. And so the idea is we want to 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.400 fill up as as much time as we can with 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.560 these things that light us up. What I call little 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.560 p purposes is process oriented activities that light us up, 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.560 and we want to get rid of as many things 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.520 as we loathe. Now, a lot of us have been 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:16.200 programmed to believe that purpose has to be big and audacious. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.520 It has to be killing it at work or making 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.040 lots of money, or traveling or having six pack abs, whatever, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.159 we were taught, but a lot of times we carry 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.279 this with us and we build these careers thinking we're 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.920 going to find some type of version of purpose that's 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.440 going to make us happy. But because it's not internal, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.599 it's more external what society tells us we want, a 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.680 lot of times we find ourselves burnt out. So the 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.280 goal is a lot of times we are in these 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.200 jobs and they make us money, and maybe it doesn't 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.000 light us up, but how can we start bringing some 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.560 things into that work time that feel purposeful? And so 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.480 this happened to me. I was working as a doctor. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.920 I felt burnt out. I had kind of co opted 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.320 my dad's version of purpose, which was being a doctor, 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.279 and he died when I was seven years old. I 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.440 thought I could fix the world by becoming a doctor 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.440 like him, and I co opted his version of purpose. 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.800 But eventually I realized I didn't like the day to 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.800 day activities and I started to burn out. But here 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.600 was what was exciting. When I started really looking at 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.680 my job, I realized I didn't like a lot of it, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.000 but there was one piece of it I did like, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.440 which was being a hospice doctor. And I was doing that. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.120 Let's say five or ten percent of my time when 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.920 I figured this out, Now, if I was stuck in 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.120 a job and I needed the income and I had 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.320 no other choices, I now had a way forward. I 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.920 could increase the amount of time I was doing hospice 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.240 and decrease the amount of time I was doing other 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.480 things like my private practice. And so I think we 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.239 don't necessarily have to quit our jobs when we realize 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.720 that it's not our passion or that it doesn't feel purposeful. 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.120 But the idea is, over time, how to build in 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.240 a little more purpose into that job, and if you 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.120 can't do that, build in a little more purpose into 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.760 your life outside the job, because we want, over time 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.119 to feel like the amount of purpose in our lives 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.160 is increasing and the amount of things we don't like 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.560 doing is decreasing. And that's kind of the goal over 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:00.600 long periods of time. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.840 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It makes me 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.680 think of so Micro's dirty jobs, right, like where you've 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:12.480 got these people doing like god awful, disgusting, terrible most people. Yeah, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.800 I don't want to like do I have anything to 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.440 do with like in those instances it's not about like 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.960 mind over matter, Like no matter what you are in 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.160 those kind of scenarios. And so for those individuals, do 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.880 you think it's about them changing their mindset and like, 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.560 so they're not changing like their actual physical environment or 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:30.960 what it is that they're doing. Is it looking at 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.679 the work that they're doing through a new lens or 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.199 do you think in more cases it's them, like you said, 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.319 finding some of that purpose outside of that actual job. 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.640 I guess what I'm trying to drill down on is 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.960 should folks be looking for maybe more of that purpose 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.600 within their work or say, you know what, I'm actually 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.520 not going to find that purpose here within this sort 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.400 of framework of a nine to five job, and instead 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.960 I should be pouring my efforts into something else. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.080 I think we should be doing both. And so what 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.240 we're talking about here are levers, and so so you 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.200 have multiple levers that can bring more purposeful activity into 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.960 your life and get rid of things you loathe. So 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.360 when you're talking about adding in purposeful activity, you're talking 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.880 about the joy of addition. And that's one really great lever. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.480 Even if you don't like your nine to five on 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.240 the nights and weekends, you can still add in purposeful 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.040 activity and that can feel like a benefit. But then 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.600 We can also use another lever called the art of subtraction, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.000 which is getting rid of things we don't like. And 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.640 specifically we can look at our work lives and see 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.760 how we can shift things around. Right. Can we change 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.760 bosses so we like our boss more even if we 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.320 don't like the job. Can we change the activities we 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.960 do in the workplace. So a great example I always 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.120 use is, let's say you work in a restaurant and 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.080 you hate working upfront, but you love doing the stock 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.320 in the stock room. Well, maybe you need to go 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.040 to your boss and say, hey, I want to spend 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.319 more of my time in the stock room and less 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.000 time upfront. You still have the same job, you still 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.880 have parts of it that you don't love, but the 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.720 idea is over time, you're trying to maximize the things 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.280 you like and get rid of the things you don't like. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.800 So we can use these levers, and I think both 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.040 are important. So definitely add in purposeful activity to your life, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.920 whether that's at the job or off the job, and 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.440 then subtract out the things you don't like, especially at work. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.840 See if you can make sure the time that you're 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.040 required to be there, Because we all need a paycheck, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.080 but at least maybe you're enjoying it more. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.959 So, you know that the saying that the grass is 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:23.760 always greener on the other side. And I think it's 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.760 really easy for people to see maybe the negative or 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.080 downsides where they where they're currently placed, whether it's it's 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.440 I think social media makes a comparison game just so 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.840 much more significant in our lives, and so it's really 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:39.880 easy to see the things that we don't have or 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.680 the ways in which our lives are inferior to others. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.360 How much of it is like Matt's kind of referring 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:50.000 to the mindset thing, Well, maybe it seems like subtracting 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.080 something would be would be the most beneficial thing to you. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.200 But then you subtract that thing and you realize, actually 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:57.760 it's not as green as I thought it was. This 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.680 grass is kind of yellow. I don't know, Like, how 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.800 how do you think about that part of purpose too? 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.640 That maybe some of it is idealism and hopes for 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.680 things that are maybe too lofty. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.720 So here's the thing. I think part of the reason 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.280 why purpose feels so difficult is we don't know how 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:14.840 to search for it in our life. We don't know 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.320 how to build or develop it. And so we go 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.959 searching for purpose through other people. And of course, if 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.600 you're going to search through purpose for purpose through other people, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.280 what are we gonna do. We're gonna look at the internet, right, 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.720 We're gonna look at TikTok, Instagram, We're gonna look at marketing, 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.360 which the focus of that campaign is to sell us something. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.600 And so if you look at TikTok or Instagram, everyone 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.080 either has six pack abs, they have an eight figure business, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.240 or they're wearing the nicest clothes, or they're traveling to 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.520 the most beautiful countries. And so it's really easy for 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.360 us to co opt a version of purpose that isn't 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.959 ours from people who are trying to sell us something, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.520 whether it's their influence or whether it's their product. And so, yes, 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.840 I think it's very easy to think of the grasses 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.280 greener on the other side, especially when we go after 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.600 the wrong kind of purpose. Remember I mentioned this idea 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.960 that there was a type of perse that's more associated 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.199 with anxiety and probably one that's more associated with health, longevity, 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.880 and happiness. What I call those are big P purpose 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.480 and little P purpose. Little P purpose is process oriented, 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.360 meaning doing things that you love doing that light you up. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.320 It's very abundant, and it's kind of individualized, right, I 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.200 might like one thing that you don't like, and you 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:21.920 might like one thing that I don't like. When I 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.000 was little, I loved baseball cards. So a version of 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.000 little P purpose for me is collecting baseball cards, trading them, 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.040 buying them, maybe reading blogs about baseball cards, or going 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.600 to conferences like that's unique to me. There might be 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.840 some other people who have that, but in general it's 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.719 much more individualized. The kind of purpose most of a 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.200 shoot for is what's called big P purpose. It's big 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.800 and audacious. This gets back to the six pack abs 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.920 and the eight figure businesses. The problem with that is 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.560 usually that someone else's version of purpose that they're trying 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.280 to sell to us, it usually doesn't light us up. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.200 And in fact, a lot of times to get to 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.840 that big audacious purpose to be successful, we have to 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.560 do things we don't enjoy the process of doing, and 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.280 it burns us out, and a lot of times we 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.160 don't even reach it right. Because you got to be 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.440 the right person at the right time, saying the right things, 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.000 having the right genetics and a bunch of luck to 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.760 become for instance, a billionaire, but if we look at 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.439 TikTok and Instagram, that's what they're telling us to do. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.679 So of course we feel lost. Of course the grass 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.640 doesn't feel greener on the other side, because we're jumping 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.439 from something we don't like, like our job, and trying 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.680 to co opt someone else's version of purpose that they're 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.800 trying to sell to us for nefarious reasons. And so 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.040 I think we have to start searching deeper of what 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.400 lights us up on the inside. What are those inklings 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.719 are beckonings, I call them purpose anchors that basically get 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.680 us excited, and then we have to build a life 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.040 of purpose around that. And this is where I think 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:44.520 most of us make our mistake. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.920 I love that. It's crazy, how like you just highlighted 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.160 how we can co opt not only the things that 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.760 we consume, like the products that we buy, but how 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.320 we can also lend that to what we should be 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.160 doing with our lives and the Maybe I could even 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.200 like dictate the kind of charities that were involved with 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.480 and the things that we give our money to. But like, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.040 on one hand, I think that could be good though, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.240 because I think about the fact that there are a 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.720 lot of products or organizations or movements that you may 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:12.320 not even be aware of, and the fact that they're 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.280 out there being broadcasted, people are talking about it on 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:16.880 the Internet. It can open your eyes and so there 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.400 is a sense of discovery there. I think what you're 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.960 getting at, though, is that if we do that without 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.040 at all questioning whether or not that is moving the 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.200 needle for us, that could, I don't know, leave us 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.520 feeling pretty pretty empty inside. But you're talking about the 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.640 pursuing the things that light us up individually. Somewhere in 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.120 your buckyard, you talked about how like we're calling some 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.120 of our childhood interests, that's actually one of the steps 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.440 that can actually lead you to some of that I 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.560 don't know, some of that more fulfilling purpose in our lives. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:44.960 Is that right? 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.400 So the problem comes down to a lot of people 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:48.880 say I don't know how to find my purpose. And 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:50.720 as you've heard me say multiple times already, you don't 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.480 really find it. You build or create it. But it 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.160 is true you need these inklings or these beckonings what 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.360 I call purpose anchors, to build a life of purpose around. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.200 And so what we're really talking about when we say 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:02.760 I can't find my purpose you're saying, well, I don't 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.800 really know what my purpose anchors are. And that's where 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.400 we get into a deeper discussion of what are some 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.360 of the exercises that anyone can do to start discovering 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.240 these purpose anchors. The Joys of Childhood is a perfect example. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.640 Think back to what your childhood room look like. What 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.000 were the posters, what were the drawings, what were the trophies. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.680 A lot of times kids pursue purpose before they've been 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.000 told who they're supposed to be, and a lot of 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.800 times it's process oriented. Person's purpose, right they want to 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.160 go out and play tennis all day, or cops and 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.640 robbers or build a fort, and a lot of times 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.840 it doesn't even matter if they accomplish their goal. They 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.000 get so lost in it they forget time and come 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.400 home late for dinner. That's really purposeful. But then they 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.040 get older and they get told what they have to 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.040 do for a living, and they get interested in academics, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.360 and they kind of drop all that stuff. So if 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.280 you're trying to figure out what are your purpose anchors 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.320 to build a life of purpose around, a great place 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.680 to start is the Joys of Childhood. Again, going back 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.000 to me, I loved baseball cards when I was little. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:15:59.720 I actually just don't have enough time. I have plenty 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.160 of parts anchors, But if I was searching to build 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.040 some purposeful activity in my life, I could use that 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.080 as a purpose anchor and start building a life of 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.000 purpose around it. And I think we all can do 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.480 that if we're in that searching phase where we feel 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.600 like we don't really know what feels like purposeful in 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:14.120 our life. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.680 So I guess my purpose is cookie crisp and cinnamon 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.880 Toe's crunch. Jordan, if that's what we going back to childhood, Yeah, 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:21.840 I thought it'd be more basketball related for you. Joel 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:27.280 well too, but I like to trashy Cereal too, Jordan. 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.720 You you also talk about how the circles that we 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.560 run in the relationships that we have, and how those 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.840 have a massive impact on our on our purpose. I 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.480 think that feels truer of me the older I get 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.160 that the people I spend time with, or that I'm 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.960 closest to their purposes in good ways have rubbed off 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.680 on me. Like sometimes it's fun to hang out with 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.479 people who like different things than I like, but occasionally 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.360 I'll start to like one of the things that they like, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.400 and it's kind of fun to have that overlap. What 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.760 is Yeah, how does that work? And how do we 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.200 know whether we're maybe stealing somebody else's purpose that doesn't 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.880 really resonate with us us or if we're actually just 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:06.040 adopting something in that we do enjoy or that yeah, 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:07.080 it does kind of light us up. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.040 Well, here's the thing that's pretty cool, right, little p 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:14.000 purpose is process oriented, it's abundant, and when you do 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.600 these things, it lights you up. But here's what happens. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.679 When you are lit up doing the thing that feels 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.919 really intentional to you, it attracts other like minded people. So, 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.439 like a moth to a flame, other people are going 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.720 to be connected attracted to you, and they're going to 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.800 want to collaborate from you, or if they don't know 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.160 as much as you, they're going to want to learn 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.640 from you, or if they know more than you, they're 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.080 going to want to teach you. But the same works 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.080 for you. When you go out into the world and 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.280 see someone doing something that lights them up, yes, it's 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.199 very attractive, and especially if it's something that you like. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.520 So here's what happens. You interact with them, Maybe you collaborate, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.639 maybe you try to learn from them, and then you 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.040 have to assess, well, does that same thing light me up? 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.640