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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and

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Speaker 1: today we're talking fulfillment over fire with doctor Jordan Grummitt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what does it mean to pursue joy and purpose

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Speaker 2: in your life? Is this like some sort of eternal

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Speaker 2: scavenger hunt where we're hoping to find something that is

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Speaker 2: just out of reach right where it's just like it's

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Speaker 2: just hidden behind the next corner. Or is it something

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Speaker 2: that we're able to achieve because it's something that we've created.

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Speaker 2: And I think our guests today would argue that it's

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Speaker 2: more of the latter. We are joined by our friend,

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Speaker 2: doctor Jordan Grummitt to talk less about the what and

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Speaker 2: the how behind personal finance and more about the why

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Speaker 2: and how our money is one of the many tools

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Speaker 2: that will allow us to achieve our end visual sense

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Speaker 2: of purpose. In his new book, The Purpose Code, it

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Speaker 2: delves into these more amorphous topics in a way that

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Speaker 2: allows readers to have a sense of clarity and understanding,

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Speaker 2: even like a to do list, as Jordan prescribes different

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Speaker 2: actions to take in his book. And so we're excited

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Speaker 2: to talk about all of that and more. Jordan aka

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Speaker 2: dot G, thank you so much for joining us today

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Speaker 2: on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Ohs, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited

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Speaker 3: for this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yes too, Man and Man, if you let me blurb

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Speaker 1: your book, I would have said, if you like the

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Speaker 1: Da Vinci code, you'll love the Purpose code. They're very similar, right,

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of overlap, of course, of course, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, the first question we ask everyone who comes on,

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Speaker 1: and Jordan, you've been on the podcast before, but what

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Speaker 1: do you like to sporge on? What's your craft beer equivalent?

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Speaker 1: You're obviously smart with money, investing, saving for your future,

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Speaker 1: but you're spourging a little bit in the here and

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Speaker 1: now too. I'm assuming, right.

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Speaker 3: I am, and my daughter and I like to go

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Speaker 3: to Barnes and Noble and buy lots of books. I

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Speaker 3: know you can get them in the library. I know

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Speaker 3: you can get them other places. It's kind of fun

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Speaker 3: to sometimes buy a new book. And she loves to

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Speaker 3: do it, and I love to do it. I like

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Speaker 3: reading crime novels, I like reading fantasy. I'm still a

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Speaker 3: big Lord of the Rings fans. Yeah, okay, quickly, it's

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Speaker 3: we're spending money on.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of the new series Rings The

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Speaker 2: Power specifically the second season. Jordan.

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Speaker 3: So I have only got to like the first episode

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Speaker 3: of the second season, but I'm biased because I like

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Speaker 3: the feel. So it doesn't even matter the plot line.

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Speaker 3: I just like the kind of.

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Speaker 2: The fact that you have been thrust into Tolkien's universe

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Speaker 2: makes you happy.

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Speaker 1: That's like, that's mad Men for me. The feels so

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Speaker 1: delightful that I'm just like, I don't even care if.

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Speaker 2: Joel just wants to kick back and smoke cigarettes and

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Speaker 2: drink scott while on the job. I mean they really

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Speaker 2: made close.

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Speaker 3: They really make it look good that drinking Scotch in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the day, like when you're waiting for

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Speaker 3: clients to come. I mean, it does look pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, never minds the rosis of the livery it was,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a thing back then. It didn't exist.

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Speaker 3: It didn't exist.

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Speaker 2: It was Jordan, let's talk of. So, your last book

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Speaker 2: was taking Stock, and I originally when we met you,

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Speaker 2: like we knew you as like a financial independence guy.

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Speaker 2: But more and more it seems like you've been pivoting,

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Speaker 2: talking a good bit more about meaning and more about purpose,

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Speaker 2: and so I guess what prompted you to pivot and

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Speaker 2: go in that direction even more with your latest book.

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Speaker 3: It was actually my first book, Taking Stock, that led

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Speaker 3: to writing the Purpose Code, and the reason why is

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Speaker 3: a main premise of that first book is that we

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Speaker 3: should put purpose, identity, and connections before building a financial framework.

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Speaker 3: So I was steeped in the financial independence movement. I

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Speaker 3: was talking to people all the time about it, and

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Speaker 3: they could tell me how much or how, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of times they couldn't tell me why or what

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Speaker 3: enough looks like. And that's why I wrote that first book,

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Speaker 3: The Purpose taking Stock. But the problem was when I

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Speaker 3: went to market it, and I'd go and do speeches

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Speaker 3: and go to conferences, people would come up to me

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Speaker 3: after my talks and they'd be kind of angry. And

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Speaker 3: the first time this happened, I thought, well, it's a

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Speaker 3: one off, no big deal. But it happened over and

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Speaker 3: over again, and they'd all say the same thing. They'd say, Look,

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Speaker 3: you keep on telling me I need to find my purpose.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea what my purpose is. It's making

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Speaker 3: me really anxious and in fact, I don't think there

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Speaker 3: is a purpose. Stop telling me to find my purpose.

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Speaker 3: And of course this sent me down a huge rabbit hole.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I know purpose is super important, but

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Speaker 3: I also know people get really anxious. And I looked

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Speaker 3: at the data. And when you go down there and

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Speaker 3: you look at all the data, you find that having

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Speaker 3: a sense of purpose in life is clearly associated with health, longevity,

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Speaker 3: and happiness. There are tons and tons of studies. On

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Speaker 3: the other hand, there are other studies that show that

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Speaker 3: up to ninety one percent of people, at some point

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Speaker 3: in their life get purpose anxiety. This idea of purpose

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Speaker 3: actually makes them frustrated or anxious. So the question is,

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Speaker 3: how could it be both. It's a paradox, and that's

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Speaker 3: why I wrote this book to help resolve this paradox.

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Speaker 3: Help you find more of that health, happiness, and longevity

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Speaker 3: and stay away from the anxiety.

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Speaker 2: That is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole purpose thing, it feels like one of

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Speaker 1: those things where you maybe some people from early on,

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Speaker 1: they put their finger on it and they're living it

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Speaker 1: out the rest of their lives. Then other people, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe their purpose morphs or changes. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've lived many lives in one lifetime. I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily know that I have one overarching purpose, but

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Speaker 1: I've had different ones over time, and I think when

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Speaker 1: we talk about purpose, a lot of people assume that

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Speaker 1: their job or their career is supposed to be kind

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Speaker 1: of that essential, that fulcrum of their purpose. But then

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Speaker 1: that can it's depending on what your job is too,

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Speaker 1: can maybe leave a lot to be desired. What are

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Speaker 1: your thoughts about how your career fits into your purpose

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Speaker 1: and how people think about that.

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Speaker 3: Here's the problem. People think purpose is like this big

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Speaker 3: thing that I either find it and life is good

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Speaker 3: or I miss it in life is horrible. The truth

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Speaker 3: of the matter is purpose is many different things, and

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Speaker 3: you can have kind of these versions of purpose that

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Speaker 3: take up your whole life, and then their versions of

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Speaker 3: purpose you only have in smaller seasons, maybe for weeks

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Speaker 3: or months. And so the idea is we want to

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Speaker 3: fill up as as much time as we can with

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Speaker 3: these things that light us up. What I call little

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Speaker 3: p purposes is process oriented activities that light us up,

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Speaker 3: and we want to get rid of as many things

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Speaker 3: as we loathe. Now, a lot of us have been

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Speaker 3: programmed to believe that purpose has to be big and audacious.

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Speaker 3: It has to be killing it at work or making

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Speaker 3: lots of money, or traveling or having six pack abs, whatever,

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Speaker 3: we were taught, but a lot of times we carry

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Speaker 3: this with us and we build these careers thinking we're

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Speaker 3: going to find some type of version of purpose that's

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Speaker 3: going to make us happy. But because it's not internal,

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Speaker 3: it's more external what society tells us we want, a

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Speaker 3: lot of times we find ourselves burnt out. So the

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Speaker 3: goal is a lot of times we are in these

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Speaker 3: jobs and they make us money, and maybe it doesn't

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Speaker 3: light us up, but how can we start bringing some

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Speaker 3: things into that work time that feel purposeful? And so

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Speaker 3: this happened to me. I was working as a doctor.

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Speaker 3: I felt burnt out. I had kind of co opted

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Speaker 3: my dad's version of purpose, which was being a doctor,

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Speaker 3: and he died when I was seven years old. I

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Speaker 3: thought I could fix the world by becoming a doctor

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Speaker 3: like him, and I co opted his version of purpose.

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Speaker 3: But eventually I realized I didn't like the day to

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Speaker 3: day activities and I started to burn out. But here

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Speaker 3: was what was exciting. When I started really looking at

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Speaker 3: my job, I realized I didn't like a lot of it,

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Speaker 3: but there was one piece of it I did like,

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Speaker 3: which was being a hospice doctor. And I was doing that.

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Speaker 3: Let's say five or ten percent of my time when

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Speaker 3: I figured this out, Now, if I was stuck in

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Speaker 3: a job and I needed the income and I had

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Speaker 3: no other choices, I now had a way forward. I

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Speaker 3: could increase the amount of time I was doing hospice

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Speaker 3: and decrease the amount of time I was doing other

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Speaker 3: things like my private practice. And so I think we

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily have to quit our jobs when we realize

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Speaker 3: that it's not our passion or that it doesn't feel purposeful.

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Speaker 3: But the idea is, over time, how to build in

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Speaker 3: a little more purpose into that job, and if you

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Speaker 3: can't do that, build in a little more purpose into

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Speaker 3: your life outside the job, because we want, over time

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Speaker 3: to feel like the amount of purpose in our lives

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Speaker 3: is increasing and the amount of things we don't like

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Speaker 3: doing is decreasing. And that's kind of the goal over

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Speaker 3: long periods of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It makes me

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Speaker 2: think of so Micro's dirty jobs, right, like where you've

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Speaker 2: got these people doing like god awful, disgusting, terrible most people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to like do I have anything to

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Speaker 2: do with like in those instances it's not about like

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Speaker 2: mind over matter, Like no matter what you are in

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Speaker 2: those kind of scenarios. And so for those individuals, do

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Speaker 2: you think it's about them changing their mindset and like,

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Speaker 2: so they're not changing like their actual physical environment or

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Speaker 2: what it is that they're doing. Is it looking at

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Speaker 2: the work that they're doing through a new lens or

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Speaker 2: do you think in more cases it's them, like you said,

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Speaker 2: finding some of that purpose outside of that actual job.

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Speaker 2: I guess what I'm trying to drill down on is

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Speaker 2: should folks be looking for maybe more of that purpose

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Speaker 2: within their work or say, you know what, I'm actually

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Speaker 2: not going to find that purpose here within this sort

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Speaker 2: of framework of a nine to five job, and instead

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Speaker 2: I should be pouring my efforts into something else.

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Speaker 3: I think we should be doing both. And so what

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Speaker 3: we're talking about here are levers, and so so you

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Speaker 3: have multiple levers that can bring more purposeful activity into

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Speaker 3: your life and get rid of things you loathe. So

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Speaker 3: when you're talking about adding in purposeful activity, you're talking

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Speaker 3: about the joy of addition. And that's one really great lever.

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Speaker 3: Even if you don't like your nine to five on

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Speaker 3: the nights and weekends, you can still add in purposeful

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Speaker 3: activity and that can feel like a benefit. But then

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Speaker 3: We can also use another lever called the art of subtraction,

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Speaker 3: which is getting rid of things we don't like. And

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Speaker 3: specifically we can look at our work lives and see

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Speaker 3: how we can shift things around. Right. Can we change

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Speaker 3: bosses so we like our boss more even if we

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Speaker 3: don't like the job. Can we change the activities we

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Speaker 3: do in the workplace. So a great example I always

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Speaker 3: use is, let's say you work in a restaurant and

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Speaker 3: you hate working upfront, but you love doing the stock

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Speaker 3: in the stock room. Well, maybe you need to go

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Speaker 3: to your boss and say, hey, I want to spend

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Speaker 3: more of my time in the stock room and less

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Speaker 3: time upfront. You still have the same job, you still

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Speaker 3: have parts of it that you don't love, but the

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Speaker 3: idea is over time, you're trying to maximize the things

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Speaker 3: you like and get rid of the things you don't like.

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Speaker 3: So we can use these levers, and I think both

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Speaker 3: are important. So definitely add in purposeful activity to your life,

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Speaker 3: whether that's at the job or off the job, and

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Speaker 3: then subtract out the things you don't like, especially at work.

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Speaker 3: See if you can make sure the time that you're

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Speaker 3: required to be there, Because we all need a paycheck,

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Speaker 3: but at least maybe you're enjoying it more.

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Speaker 1: So, you know that the saying that the grass is

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Speaker 1: always greener on the other side. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: really easy for people to see maybe the negative or

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Speaker 1: downsides where they where they're currently placed, whether it's it's

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Speaker 1: I think social media makes a comparison game just so

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Speaker 1: much more significant in our lives, and so it's really

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Speaker 1: easy to see the things that we don't have or

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Speaker 1: the ways in which our lives are inferior to others.

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Speaker 1: How much of it is like Matt's kind of referring

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Speaker 1: to the mindset thing, Well, maybe it seems like subtracting

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Speaker 1: something would be would be the most beneficial thing to you.

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Speaker 1: But then you subtract that thing and you realize, actually

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Speaker 1: it's not as green as I thought it was. This

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Speaker 1: grass is kind of yellow. I don't know, Like, how

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Speaker 1: how do you think about that part of purpose too?

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Speaker 1: That maybe some of it is idealism and hopes for

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Speaker 1: things that are maybe too lofty.

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Speaker 3: So here's the thing. I think part of the reason

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Speaker 3: why purpose feels so difficult is we don't know how

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Speaker 3: to search for it in our life. We don't know

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Speaker 3: how to build or develop it. And so we go

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Speaker 3: searching for purpose through other people. And of course, if

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Speaker 3: you're going to search through purpose for purpose through other people,

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Speaker 3: what are we gonna do. We're gonna look at the internet, right,

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Speaker 3: We're gonna look at TikTok, Instagram, We're gonna look at marketing,

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Speaker 3: which the focus of that campaign is to sell us something.

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Speaker 3: And so if you look at TikTok or Instagram, everyone

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Speaker 3: either has six pack abs, they have an eight figure business,

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Speaker 3: or they're wearing the nicest clothes, or they're traveling to

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Speaker 3: the most beautiful countries. And so it's really easy for

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Speaker 3: us to co opt a version of purpose that isn't

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Speaker 3: ours from people who are trying to sell us something,

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Speaker 3: whether it's their influence or whether it's their product. And so, yes,

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Speaker 3: I think it's very easy to think of the grasses

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Speaker 3: greener on the other side, especially when we go after

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Speaker 3: the wrong kind of purpose. Remember I mentioned this idea

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Speaker 3: that there was a type of perse that's more associated

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Speaker 3: with anxiety and probably one that's more associated with health, longevity,

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Speaker 3: and happiness. What I call those are big P purpose

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Speaker 3: and little P purpose. Little P purpose is process oriented,

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Speaker 3: meaning doing things that you love doing that light you up.

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Speaker 3: It's very abundant, and it's kind of individualized, right, I

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Speaker 3: might like one thing that you don't like, and you

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Speaker 3: might like one thing that I don't like. When I

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Speaker 3: was little, I loved baseball cards. So a version of

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Speaker 3: little P purpose for me is collecting baseball cards, trading them,

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Speaker 3: buying them, maybe reading blogs about baseball cards, or going

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Speaker 3: to conferences like that's unique to me. There might be

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Speaker 3: some other people who have that, but in general it's

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Speaker 3: much more individualized. The kind of purpose most of a

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Speaker 3: shoot for is what's called big P purpose. It's big

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Speaker 3: and audacious. This gets back to the six pack abs

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Speaker 3: and the eight figure businesses. The problem with that is

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Speaker 3: usually that someone else's version of purpose that they're trying

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Speaker 3: to sell to us, it usually doesn't light us up.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, a lot of times to get to

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Speaker 3: that big audacious purpose to be successful, we have to

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Speaker 3: do things we don't enjoy the process of doing, and

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Speaker 3: it burns us out, and a lot of times we

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Speaker 3: don't even reach it right. Because you got to be

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Speaker 3: the right person at the right time, saying the right things,

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Speaker 3: having the right genetics and a bunch of luck to

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Speaker 3: become for instance, a billionaire, but if we look at

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Speaker 3: TikTok and Instagram, that's what they're telling us to do.

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Speaker 3: So of course we feel lost. Of course the grass

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel greener on the other side, because we're jumping

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Speaker 3: from something we don't like, like our job, and trying

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Speaker 3: to co opt someone else's version of purpose that they're

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Speaker 3: trying to sell to us for nefarious reasons. And so

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Speaker 3: I think we have to start searching deeper of what

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Speaker 3: lights us up on the inside. What are those inklings

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Speaker 3: are beckonings, I call them purpose anchors that basically get

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Speaker 3: us excited, and then we have to build a life

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Speaker 3: of purpose around that. And this is where I think

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Speaker 3: most of us make our mistake.

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Speaker 2: I love that. It's crazy, how like you just highlighted

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Speaker 2: how we can co opt not only the things that

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Speaker 2: we consume, like the products that we buy, but how

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Speaker 2: we can also lend that to what we should be

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Speaker 2: doing with our lives and the Maybe I could even

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Speaker 2: like dictate the kind of charities that were involved with

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Speaker 2: and the things that we give our money to. But like,

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Speaker 2: on one hand, I think that could be good though,

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Speaker 2: because I think about the fact that there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of products or organizations or movements that you may

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Speaker 2: not even be aware of, and the fact that they're

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Speaker 2: out there being broadcasted, people are talking about it on

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Speaker 2: the Internet. It can open your eyes and so there

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Speaker 2: is a sense of discovery there. I think what you're

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Speaker 2: getting at, though, is that if we do that without

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Speaker 2: at all questioning whether or not that is moving the

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Speaker 2: needle for us, that could, I don't know, leave us

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Speaker 2: feeling pretty pretty empty inside. But you're talking about the

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Speaker 2: pursuing the things that light us up individually. Somewhere in

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Speaker 2: your buckyard, you talked about how like we're calling some

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Speaker 2: of our childhood interests, that's actually one of the steps

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Speaker 2: that can actually lead you to some of that I

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Speaker 2: don't know, some of that more fulfilling purpose in our lives.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: So the problem comes down to a lot of people

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Speaker 3: say I don't know how to find my purpose. And

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Speaker 3: as you've heard me say multiple times already, you don't

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Speaker 3: really find it. You build or create it. But it

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Speaker 3: is true you need these inklings or these beckonings what

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Speaker 3: I call purpose anchors, to build a life of purpose around.

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Speaker 3: And so what we're really talking about when we say

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Speaker 3: I can't find my purpose you're saying, well, I don't

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Speaker 3: really know what my purpose anchors are. And that's where

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Speaker 3: we get into a deeper discussion of what are some

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Speaker 3: of the exercises that anyone can do to start discovering

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Speaker 3: these purpose anchors. The Joys of Childhood is a perfect example.

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Speaker 3: Think back to what your childhood room look like. What

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Speaker 3: were the posters, what were the drawings, what were the trophies.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times kids pursue purpose before they've been

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Speaker 3: told who they're supposed to be, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: times it's process oriented. Person's purpose, right they want to

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Speaker 3: go out and play tennis all day, or cops and

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Speaker 3: robbers or build a fort, and a lot of times

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Speaker 3: it doesn't even matter if they accomplish their goal. They

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Speaker 3: get so lost in it they forget time and come

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Speaker 3: home late for dinner. That's really purposeful. But then they

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Speaker 3: get older and they get told what they have to

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Speaker 3: do for a living, and they get interested in academics,

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Speaker 3: and they kind of drop all that stuff. So if

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Speaker 3: you're trying to figure out what are your purpose anchors

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Speaker 3: to build a life of purpose around, a great place

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Speaker 3: to start is the Joys of Childhood. Again, going back

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Speaker 3: to me, I loved baseball cards when I was little.

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Speaker 3: I actually just don't have enough time. I have plenty

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Speaker 3: of parts anchors, But if I was searching to build

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Speaker 3: some purposeful activity in my life, I could use that

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Speaker 3: as a purpose anchor and start building a life of

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Speaker 3: purpose around it. And I think we all can do

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Speaker 3: that if we're in that searching phase where we feel

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Speaker 3: like we don't really know what feels like purposeful in

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Speaker 3: our life.

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Speaker 1: So I guess my purpose is cookie crisp and cinnamon

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Speaker 1: Toe's crunch. Jordan, if that's what we going back to childhood, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought it'd be more basketball related for you. Joel

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Speaker 1: well too, but I like to trashy Cereal too, Jordan.

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Speaker 1: You you also talk about how the circles that we

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Speaker 1: run in the relationships that we have, and how those

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Speaker 1: have a massive impact on our on our purpose. I

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Speaker 1: think that feels truer of me the older I get

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Speaker 1: that the people I spend time with, or that I'm

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Speaker 1: closest to their purposes in good ways have rubbed off

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Speaker 1: on me. Like sometimes it's fun to hang out with

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Speaker 1: people who like different things than I like, but occasionally

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Speaker 1: I'll start to like one of the things that they like,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of fun to have that overlap. What

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Speaker 1: is Yeah, how does that work? And how do we

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Speaker 1: know whether we're maybe stealing somebody else's purpose that doesn't

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Speaker 1: really resonate with us us or if we're actually just

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Speaker 1: adopting something in that we do enjoy or that yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does kind of light us up.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing that's pretty cool, right, little p

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Speaker 3: purpose is process oriented, it's abundant, and when you do

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Speaker 3: these things, it lights you up. But here's what happens.

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Speaker 3: When you are lit up doing the thing that feels

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Speaker 3: really intentional to you, it attracts other like minded people. So,

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Speaker 3: like a moth to a flame, other people are going

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Speaker 3: to be connected attracted to you, and they're going to

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Speaker 3: want to collaborate from you, or if they don't know

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Speaker 3: as much as you, they're going to want to learn

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Speaker 3: from you, or if they know more than you, they're

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Speaker 3: going to want to teach you. But the same works

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Speaker 3: for you. When you go out into the world and

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Speaker 3: see someone doing something that lights them up, yes, it's

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Speaker 3: very attractive, and especially if it's something that you like.

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Speaker 3: So here's what happens. You interact with them, Maybe you collaborate,

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Speaker 3: maybe you try to learn from them, and then you

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Speaker 3: have to assess, well, does that same thing light me up?

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Speaker 3: And if the answer is yes, it lights me up.

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Speaker 3: The process of doing this, not the riches these people

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Speaker 3: have made, not the fame they have, but doing the

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Speaker 3: activity they do really lights you up. Then it probably

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Speaker 3: is a version of little people perpose and it was

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Speaker 3: probably the reason you were attracted to them in the

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Speaker 3: first place. And so I think that's all really really positive.

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Speaker 3: And as long as you're able to engage with this

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Speaker 3: person try on that identity that they have. If you

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Speaker 3: decide you don't like that identity and you don't like

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Speaker 3: those activities, it's fine to just walk away. You can

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Speaker 3: still be their friend, but you're probably not going to

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Speaker 3: engage with them on as deep of a level.

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Speaker 2: You're also making me feel better about the fact that

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Speaker 2: I changed my major every single year in college, Jordan,

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Speaker 2: the fact that I tried all these different identities by

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Speaker 2: taking these classes and then quickly realizing that, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, I guess I'm not going to be a

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Speaker 2: science major. Pre med isn't what I'm here to do.

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Speaker 1: It's also amazing that some of the things that we

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Speaker 1: knee jerk say we don't like or are not interested in,

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Speaker 1: like my kids do with certain foods that we put

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Speaker 1: in front of them, how they become an acquiet taste.

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Speaker 1: And there are certain things that we might say not

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Speaker 1: part of my purpose, that's not part of my how

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Speaker 1: I find fulfillment in life. And then you try it

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Speaker 1: on for a little bit and then you're like, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, I kind of dig this thing, and so

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Speaker 1: I don't know. There's probably some some purposeful purpose experimentation

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Speaker 1: that has to be done too.

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Speaker 3: Right, So we call this the spaghetti method. So I

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Speaker 3: mentioned the Joys of Childhood or a great way to

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Speaker 3: figure out purpose anchors. There's some other ways I mentioned

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00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 3: in the book, but some people come to me and

435
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 3: say none of that works. And so the people who

436
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 3: say nothing works, I say, try the Spaghetti method. Do

437
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 3: things you don't normally do, hang out with people you

438
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 3: don't normally hang out with. Do something maybe that's a

439
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,360
Speaker 3: little uncomfortable for you, and do it for a day

440
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 3: and see what happens. And if you find it resonates

441
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 3: with you or you feel some joy doing it, that

442
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,640
Speaker 3: could be a great purpose anchor. And then the hard

443
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 3: part comes. You have to build the life of purpose

444
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 3: around it. Now again, we're high stakes people, so I

445
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 3: say build a life of purpose, and you are all

446
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 3: of a sudden having these big, audacious ideas and plans

447
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 3: of these crazy things you're going to have to do.

448
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 3: But it's not like that at all. If you go

449
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 3: swimming with a friend and you hate swimming, or you

450
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: thought you hated swimming, but you said yes to them

451
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 3: because you tried the spaghetti method and you enjoyed it,

452
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 3: building a life of little pea purpose might be once

453
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 3: a week going and swimming and hanging out with the

454
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: same people and going to happy hour after with them,

455
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 3: And it could be as simple as that. That's the

456
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 3: beginning of purpose and community and doing things that light

457
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 3: you up, that connect you with other people. It doesn't

458
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 3: have to be so big and crazy and all fulfilling.

459
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,719
Speaker 3: It can just be something simple you like doing. And

460
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 3: you have room in your life for multiple purpose anchors.

461
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,479
Speaker 3: So one of those purpose anchors could be working as

462
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: a researcher on cancer and trying to help the world.

463
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 3: If you enjoy the process of doing that, regardless if

464
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 3: you succeed or not, that could be a deeper, enduring

465
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 3: form of little pea purpose. For you. But you compare

466
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 3: that with some of these seasonal or short term versions

467
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 3: of little pea purpose too, and they all can go together.

468
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 2: What I love about what you just said is that

469
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 2: it almost doesn't have a name to it. Like going

470
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: back to the swimming example, I think somebody who started

471
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: doing that, they would never have said, oh, this is

472
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: going to be the beginning of this new purpose. There's

473
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: little pea purpose in the life for them. Like there's

474
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: literally not even a label for it. It's almost like, oh,

475
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 2: this is something I just it's this dumb little thing

476
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 2: I do on TVA as most where I get with

477
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 2: my buddy, but then all of a sudden it turns

478
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 2: into this other thing. And I guess what I want

479
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 2: to ask you now is that it seems like that

480
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 2: there needs to be a level of openness that someone

481
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: needs to have in order to discover some of these

482
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 2: different little pea purposes. Do you see this being more

483
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 2: difficult for folks maybe who is just part of their

484
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: personality that they are actually less open, Like do you

485
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: see certain types of people being able to find their

486
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: purpose more easily than others?

487
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 3: Look, I think everyone is open to happiness, because I

488
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 3: think that's What we're really talking about here is happiness

489
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 3: doing the things that incite you and light you up,

490
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 3: and that you can build a happy life around. But

491
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: I will also say that a lot of people have

492
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 3: a litmus test for whatever activities they're going to do

493
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 3: in a big part of that litmus test is impact

494
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: and legacy. So they will limit what they do because

495
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 3: they think it's selfish or they think it's not changing

496
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: the world. And so there is a certain amount of

497
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 3: openness that you need to say, I'm just gonna do

498
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 3: this thing because I enjoy it. I'm gonna let go

499
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 3: of the goals. I'm gonna let go of this kind

500
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: of big audacious plan and just do things that light

501
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 3: you up. Now, that doesn't mean that it won't change

502
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 3: the world. It just means that you stop using that

503
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 3: as the driver and start using the driver of things

504
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 3: that you really love.

505
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, We've got more to get to with

506
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: with you, Jordan, and uh, of course we got to

507
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: talk about the intersection of money and purpose. We'll get

508
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: to some discussion on that right after this.

509
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: We are back from the Brag talking about finding fulfillment

510
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: over fire with Doc g aka Doctor Jordan Grummitt. And Jordan.

511
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: In your book, you talk about the need for both

512
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: meaning as well as purpose, and you you create a

513
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: clear distinction between the two. It involves time. But can

514
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: you explain the different difference between the two and why

515
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: it is that we need both.

516
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: I think we need both meaning and purpose to be happy.

517
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 3: In fact, I say that both of them are a foundation.

518
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 3: But they're very different things, and most people don't realize this.

519
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: Meaning is how we cognitively think about the past. It's

520
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 3: the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. And happy people

521
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: tend to tell themselves heroic stories. They look at their past,

522
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 3: they look at their trauma, they look whatever happened to them,

523
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 3: and they say, I was enough and I made it

524
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 3: through that, and so that's why I am where I

525
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: am today, and I'll probably continue to be enough in

526
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: the present and future. Unhappy people tend to tell themselves

527
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 3: a victim story. I wasn't enough all the way back then.

528
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: These traumas happen to me. They thwarted me. I'm continuing

529
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: to be thwarted today and most likely it'll happen in

530
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: the present in future too. They don't feel enough. Here's

531
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 3: the difference between meaning and purpose. While meaning is about

532
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: cognition in the past and is really a journey to enough.

533
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: Purpose is about the present and future, and it's all

534
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: about actions. It's simply doing the things that light you up.

535
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: Why is this important. It's important because there are a

536
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: lot of people who actually don't have the greatest sense

537
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: of meaning. They don't tell themselves heroic stories, and so

538
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 3: they don't feel like they're enough. So the way to

539
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 3: deal with that is to go back and rewrite those stories.

540
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: But instead they think they can purpose their way to enough.

541
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: What I mean is they're like, if I just do

542
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: these big, audacious things, it'll prove that I'm good enough,

543
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: and life will be good and I'll be happy. And

544
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: we know, of course that just doesn't work. If you

545
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: question whether it works or not, look at someone like

546
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 3: Steve Jobs. Before he died, he was one of the

547
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: most successful guys ever. He had some of the most

548
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: money than other entrepreneurs. He's very wealthy, and yet he

549
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 3: never looked particularly happy. You could say the same thing

550
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: about Elon Musk. They have all these wonderful things and achievements,

551
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: but until they kind of go back and rewrite those

552
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: stories of their childhood and deal with their traumas. They're

553
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 3: going to continuously try to prove their enoughness by doing

554
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: bigger and better and more audacious things, and it just

555
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: doesn't work. You cannot purpose your way to enough, You

556
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: can't purpose your way to happiness. You need both meaning

557
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: and purpose to truly get there.

558
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point, and I think, yeah, you're right.

559
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes people, especially of that ILK, think if I

560
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: create the most successful technological product of all time, then

561
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: I will be I will have arrived. And the truth

562
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: is there is no arriving. And if you're not kind

563
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: of satisfied in your soul in a deeper level, no

564
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: amount of earthly success I think will give that to you.

565
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: You obviously care a lot about money. You talk about

566
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: personal finance. You're a personal finance nerd. I would say, allah, Matt,

567
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: and I but like, what's the intersection of money and

568
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: purpose here? And how big of an influence should our

569
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: income or our ability to make financial progress, How much

570
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: influence should that have on kind of the purpose that

571
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: we have for our lives.

572
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: Let's talk about two things, the intersection of money and

573
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: purpose and then the intersection of money and happiness, because

574
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,959
Speaker 3: I think the second one actually is the bigger story.

575
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: So the intersection of money and purpose, in my opinion

576
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: is money is a great tool to pursue a life

577
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: of purpose, but that is all it is. It gets

578
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 3: a little more problematic when we talk about money and happiness,

579
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: and we know, like to get nerdy for a moment.

580
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: There are tons of studies about money and happiness. Condom

581
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: and Deeton, I think it was twenty ten Matt Killing's

582
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: Worth twenty sixteen. Both of them did studies about money

583
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: and happiness. Condom and a Deeton used data that was

584
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: gathered for something else and retrospectively analyzed it. Killingsworth prospectively

585
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: meaning he started with his hypothesis and gathered data, but

586
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: the kind of data he gathered was like texting people

587
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: multiple times a day for a number of months and

588
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: collecting their responses. And both of them tried to decide

589
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: whether money was related to happiness, and they both came

590
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: to the conclusion that at least up to a point

591
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: for sure. Condom In and Deeton talked about seventy thousand

592
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: dollars back in twenty ten. If you you know, money

593
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: increased happiness up to making about seventy thousand dollars a year,

594
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: and then after it it didn't have as much of

595
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: an effect. Killingsworth said, well, not exactly. There are some

596
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 3: people who are making more money does make them more happy,

597
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 3: but maybe it's not to the same extent that the

598
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: first seventy thousand does. I want to compare those studies

599
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: to the Harvard Adult DEVELOPMENTTAL Health Study, which I think

600
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 3: is a bigger, more important study. One of the reasons

601
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: I think it's bigger and more important is because it

602
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 3: went on for eighty years. So it started back in

603
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: the early nineteen hundreds. They grabbed Harvard students and started

604
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: doing questionnaires every two years. Eventually they brought in their

605
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 3: family members. Eventually they then added in thousands of controls

606
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: from the Boston area. They basically study these people for

607
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: eighty years. They started by doing questionnaires, Eventually they did

608
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: blood tests, MRIs EEGs, They looked at their income at

609
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: various times in their life, and when they finished, their

610
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 3: conclusion is there was one thing that was clearly and

611
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 3: obviously positively correlated with happiness. And it wasn't money. It

612
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: wasn't career, it wasn't achievements, believe it or not, it

613
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: wasn't even purpose. It was interpersonal connections. Interpersonal connections is

614
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: what makes people happy. Now you just heard me say

615
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: it wasn't purpose. But what about all that data that

616
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 3: show that purpose is associated with health, longevity, and happiness. Well,

617
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 3: here's my belief. If you practice little P purpose, well

618
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 3: it becomes a conduit to building communities and connections. It's

619
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: all interpersonal relationships, and I think the way we get

620
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 3: there is little P purpose. I think that's that connection

621
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: to happiness. Money is great, and if you are trying

622
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: to build the life you want to live, having enough money,

623
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: for instance, to pay someone to clean your house, or

624
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: to work four days a week instead of five, or

625
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: to get rid of as many things you can as

626
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: possible that you loathe. If you can get rid of

627
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: all those things with money, it becomes an incredible tool.

628
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: But of course most of us don't have tons of money,

629
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: especially if you're at the beginning of your career. So

630
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: I want to remind people that money is just one

631
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: of the tools. We also have a bunch of other ones,

632
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: like our relationships, our youth, our energy, our passions, our skills.

633
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: Those are all tools and we can use those two

634
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: to also pursue a life of purpose. So Money's great,

635
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 3: but it's not the only way to get there.

636
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: So you're highlighting something too though, when it comes to

637
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: money and its impact on our purpose, Like, just the

638
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: further along you get towards financial independence and the more

639
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: I think restrained you can be, especially some of those

640
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: bigger line items, let's say a mortgage or rent or

641
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: the cars that you own. It means you can potentially

642
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: say no to a five day work week and have

643
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: the four day work week so that you can pursue

644
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: hobbies that you love with a community you care about

645
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: more deeply, Like, instead of funneling, potentially tell me your

646
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: thoughts on this more money towards bigger purchases that maybe

647
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: we think are going to put a smile on our face,

648
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: we should be thinking about it in kind of an

649
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: inverted way.

650
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: I think winning the game is trying to control time.

651
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: But you and I know we can't control time. It's impossible.

652
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: Time passes no matter what we do. The only thing

653
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: we can do is fill that time with more or

654
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: less purposeful activity. So winning the game is basically looking

655
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: at your calendar and breaking that calendar down into time segments,

656
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: whether we're talking about days, months, or years and filling

657
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: as many of them as possible with things you love,

658
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: little p purpose and getting rid of things you loathe.

659
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: And so we have a bunch of tools to do that.

660
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: And like we said, money is a great one. So

661
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: the smarter you are with your money, the more you're

662
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: a valuist, the more you spend money on what's important

663
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: to you and don't spend it on what's not important

664
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: to you, the more you're going to have left over

665
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 3: to use as a tool to live a more purposeful life.

666
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 3: But again, I want to make sure people who don't

667
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: have money realize that you have other tools and it

668
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: behooves you to start using them today. So, for instance,

669
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: if you are twenty five years old and you don't

670
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: love your job and you feel like you can't pursue purpose,

671
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: but if you had a little extra time, maybe you

672
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: could start doing more purposeful things. Well, maybe you can

673
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: use one of your other tools. Maybe you have family

674
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: that lives in the area and you can stop renting apartments,

675
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: start living with them and save enough each month to

676
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: work four days out a week instead of five. You're

677
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: still twenty five years old, you're still a little bit

678
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: strapped for your finances, but now you've been able to

679
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: change the game using a tool other than money, in

680
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: this case your connections, your family to live a better life.

681
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: And with that extra day a week you now have,

682
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: you can fill it with something purposeful, and that's winning

683
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: the game. We use the joy of addition ad in

684
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: purposeful activities. We use the art of subtraction get rid

685
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: of things we loathe, and we do it over and

686
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 3: over again, wash, rinse, repeat, every week, month or year

687
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: until our schedule looks more like things we love and

688
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: very little like things we don't want to do.

689
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: And that example that you just shared, though, what's so

690
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: fascinating about that is I think there are very few

691
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 2: twenty five year olds out there who would hear you

692
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: say that and actually follow through and do it right,

693
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: like because they have co opted mainstream media and what

694
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: is quote unquote successful out there. It takes courage, like

695
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: it takes guts, And I'll just be honest, like, I

696
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: just don't see many people doing the kind of quote

697
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: unquote crazy thing out there. And like, oftentimes, I think

698
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 2: there are just so many distractions that are lives that

699
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: keep us from sort of doing some of that self examination.

700
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: Like I'm even thinking about technology you know, how much

701
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: blame do you think lies there that has potentially prevented us,

702
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: maybe from self examining even more as to what it

703
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: is us bringing about purpose and happiness in our lives.

704
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: I think a huge amount, because as long as we

705
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: are trying to find our purpose instead of looking deeper

706
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 3: inside and realizing what lights us up. As long as

707
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: we're trying to find our purpose, there are going to

708
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: be tons of outlets that are willing to give us

709
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: this version of purpose. And usually it's big and audacious,

710
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: and usually it benefits them and not you. But unless

711
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: you start getting really thoughtful about this, you're going to

712
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: be fed what other people want to feed you. And

713
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: you have to be really clear about these decisions, especially

714
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: if you don't have a lot of that tool of money.

715
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: You got to be really clear about these decisions if

716
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you want to start improving that calculus of your schedule

717
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: and doing more things you love and less things you loathe.

718
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 3: But here's the magic and the excitement. Once you understand it,

719
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: you start realizing there are millions of things you could do.

720
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: What else could you do? Well? You know, if your

721
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: company lets you go virtual, you could move to another country,

722
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: a country that costs less, and yet you're still making

723
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: your salary from the US and boom, before you know it,

724
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: your expenses are down fifty percent, but you're still making

725
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: the same money. You now have more of that tool

726
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: of money. You could do a bunch of different things,

727
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: and I could go on and on their abundant ways

728
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: to build purpose in your life. But we've been sold

729
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: this bill of goods that purpose is difficult and big

730
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: and painful and hard to find until we accept the

731
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: fact that it's actually abundant and obvious, and all we

732
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: have to do is start building around it. Once we

733
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: start accepting that, it gets a lot easier.

734
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: Talk to us about what you call the climb. You

735
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: say that it's the concept of purpose into action. And

736
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: since you know, I think you've done a really good

737
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: job at making purpose feel more relatable and doable and

738
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: actually maybe like a smaller endeavor than maybe people previously

739
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: thought it was, which is which is good to know,

740
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: especially as we're starting off a new year and people

741
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: are like, how do Yeah, this is a question thatsaw

742
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: people's mind. What's the climb and how can that help?

743
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: So the climb is exactly that, it's purpose and action

744
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: So when people are trying to find their purpose, like

745
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 3: we said, actually the better activity is to connect with

746
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: your purpose anchors. But here's where it gets a touch difficult.

747
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 3: Once you know it feels like purpose in your life

748
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: and ancher, you then have to build a life of

749
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 3: purpose around it. That is the climb. And for any

750
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: purpose anger, you could do an infinite number of climes.

751
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 3: So Joel really liked basketball when he was a kid.

752
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: He's now an adult and feeling like his life is

753
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 3: not as purposeful as he wanted to be. He knows

754
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 3: a purpose anchor for him as basketball. What could be

755
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: a number of climes he could build around that, depending

756
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: on what his interests are and where they lie. Well,

757
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: Joel could play basketball. He could join a basketball league

758
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 3: every week of people like him, professionals. Maybe he could

759
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 3: find a podcasting basketball league. I mean, as crazy as

760
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: that sounds, that could be a climb for him, and

761
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: that could feel really purposeful. It could connect him to

762
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: other people, it could increase the enjoyment in his life.

763
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: But you're saying Joel doesn't like playing anymore and his

764
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: knees hurt. Well, maybe Joel could start writing a blog

765
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: about basketball. Maybe he could do a basketball podcast. Maybe

766
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: he could start the Chicago Bulls fan club because we

767
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: know he loves Chicago, and who else would you ceer on? So,

768
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: I mean, there are so many different things he could

769
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: do related to basketball, and those are all different climbs.

770
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 3: And here's the magic. All he has to do is

771
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: start building a life around that purpose anchor. And if

772
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 3: he doesn't enjoy the climb, jump off the mountain and

773
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: start a new one. That's it.

774
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: So is a climb sort of like brainstorming in regards

775
00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: to well the.

776
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: I those action. I think purpose anchors are kind of

777
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: like the brainstorming. The climb is very action based. It's

778
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: actually doing something very nice.

779
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: So we're gonna take a quick break, and I'm not

780
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: even sure where the conversation is gonna get because I've

781
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: got multiple questions for you, Jordan, But we'll get to

782
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: all that and more right after this. We are back

783
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: from the break, still talking about finding fulfillment with Jordan

784
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: Grummitt and Jordan. Before the break, we're talking about how

785
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: like a lack of money, or first of all money

786
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: generally speaking, you were presenting it essentially as a tool

787
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: when it comes to pursuing our purpose there are multi like,

788
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: we've got a whole tool belt full of tools, and

789
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: the one tool that Joel and I talked the most

790
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: about is money. That's out of money. But I feel

791
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: like there might be some younger folks out there who

792
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: are thinking, Okay, yeah, you can say that you guys

793
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: and your y'all are middle aged men, you've had a

794
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: successful career quote unquote successful. I don't know how successfully

795
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: I would call myself, but it kind of sounds like

796
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: an old man's game, and I guess I want to

797
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: put a little pin in a criticism that might get

798
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: lobbed our way where it's like, sure, you can afford

799
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: to have these kind of conversations later in life. You've

800
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: got money invested in the market. Oh great, Yeah, the

801
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: market's up thirty percent. I'm glad you're able to enjoy

802
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: that after having invested for twenty years. I'm not in

803
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: that kind of position. Do you think that at the

804
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: stage of life that we are in, that we are

805
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: over indexing some of those other tools like youth, energy skills,

806
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: things like that, because the fact is you can do

807
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: a lot with the right amount of money at a

808
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: pretty early age.

809
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say, as we get older, we're under indexing

810
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 3: those other tools in over indexing money, which is fine

811
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 3: because we're in this place, hopefully of privilege, where we

812
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 3: have a little money. But I think what you're really

813
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: getting to is that privilege discussion.

814
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: Right.

815
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: I'm twenty two, I'm working sixty hours a week. There's

816
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 3: no way I have enough money to do what you

817
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: old wealthy guys are doing. And so the argument there

818
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: again goes back to the tools and the levers. We

819
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: have all all these tools. Our youth and our energy

820
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: are great tools, by the way, and then we have levers,

821
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 3: which are the joy of addition, the art of subtraction

822
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 3: and substitution. So let me give you an example. Twenty

823
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: two year old working for a non for profit. I

824
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 3: talk about this guy in my book. Hates his job

825
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: but has to make enough money to put food on

826
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: the table, and feels lost like he's a victim of

827
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: this life and there's no way he has time or

828
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: energy to pursue purpose. First and foremost, let's just talk

829
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: about time real quick. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics

830
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: does the Time Survey every bunch of years and basically

831
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 3: shows your average American has five hours of free time

832
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: a day, and in fact, the lower socioeconomic classes have

833
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: slightly more. So I don't think time is really the reason.

834
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 3: So let's talk about money. Well, as a twenty two

835
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: year old, this person I talk about my book doesn't

836
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 3: have some of the things that I have, Like I'm

837
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: fifty one, i have kids, i have a mortgage, i'm married.

838
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: But at twenty two you have some of these tools

839
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 3: of your youth and your energy. You might not have

840
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: a lot you have to do on a sadder or

841
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: a Sunday. So this person went and they started thinking

842
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: about their purpose anchors, like what's important to me, what

843
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 3: excites me. They use this exercise of looking at their

844
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: joys of childhood and realized that they loved bike racing.

845
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: It was something they did in high school and because

846
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: they didn't have much money then either, they became really

847
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: a droit at fixing their own bike. So what does

848
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: this person do well, they say, well, I can use

849
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: the joy of edition and I'm working sixty hours a

850
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: week and that's not making me happy. But I can

851
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 3: add in something joyful on Sunday because I'm young and

852
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 3: I have some energy, and I don't have a family,

853
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: so I'm going to go to the local bike track

854
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: and I'm going to offer to fix people's bikes for pay,

855
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: something I love doing and I love being at the

856
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: racetrack and I love hanging out with those people. And

857
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: let's say that person does that for six months. One

858
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: of two things happens. Either they make no money at it,

859
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 3: but they're still winning the game because now all of

860
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 3: a sudden, they're spending three or four hours on Sunday

861
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 3: doing something more purposeful than they were. So they use

862
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: the joy of addition to add purposeful activity in the

863
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: And remember when we talk about that calculus of your schedule,

864
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: over many, many, many years, you are bringing in more

865
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: purposeful activity in your life. But let's say the other

866
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 3: thing happens in he does start making some money, and

867
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: let's say that money gives him a little margin that

868
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 3: he can start working four days a week instead of five,

869
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: or maybe eight hours a day instead of ten. Basically,

870
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: then you're using the art of subtraction to get rid

871
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: of something you don't enjoy, which is work. So joy

872
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: of addition to add in purposeful activity, art of subtraction

873
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 3: to get rid of activity you loathe, and you're winning

874
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 3: the game. And if a twenty two year old can

875
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: do that. Think about over the weeks and months and

876
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: years of our career, how we can continuously improve things

877
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 3: so that we are doing less we loathe and more

878
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: we love. And so that's the power and the magic

879
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: of understanding what your purpose anchors are and starting to

880
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 3: build these climbs around them is it makes you super adaptable,

881
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: and it improves your life. And just imagine if you

882
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 3: practice this threat right your twenties, how good in your

883
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: thirties and forties you're going to be at this And

884
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: in the meantime, if they listen to your podcast and

885
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: start spending wisely and saving and investing in all the

886
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: things you guys are talking about, they're not going to

887
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 3: only be crafty with all these other tools in their

888
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 3: tool about, but they're also going to have plenty of money,

889
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: and then it becomes super powerful.

890
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you were talking about my love for basketball

891
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: as a kid. I don't really love basketball anymore. Honestly,

892
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: If I have nothing to do with basketball for the

893
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: rest of my life, that's okay, except for maybe the

894
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: occasional pickup game with friends or something like that. But

895
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: I found other things that kind of light the fire

896
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: under me that I would have said five years ago

897
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: not interested in, and now for some reason, they're this

898
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: meaningful part of my life that take a good portion

899
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: of my life. How does purpose change and morph over time?

900
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: And how do we know maybe when to kind of

901
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: like subtract or add something in that maybe isn't kind

902
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: of hitting that same sweet spot that it used to be.

903
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: It's all about simplicity. Purpose are the actions in the

904
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: present and future that light you up. Can be big

905
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: or small, It can be long term or short term.

906
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 3: It can immediately impact the world, but it certainly doesn't

907
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 3: have to. There are no rules other than you like

908
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: the process of doing what you're doing, and so then

909
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 3: it just becomes the comparison game. This thing feels purposeful.

910
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: I love and enjoy doing these activities until I don't,

911
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: and then I stop doing those activities and start doing

912
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 3: other ones. And there'll be times when you have different

913
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 3: purpose anchors in your life and you build climes around them,

914
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 3: and you'll find one climb becomes more dominant than the others,

915
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: and in fact, you stop doing some of those other

916
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 3: climes because this one is filling you up and lighting

917
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: you up more. Here's the thing that's all totally okay.

918
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: There are no rules other than fill your time with

919
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: more stuff you love and less stuff you loathe. So

920
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: you're going to continuously being the joy of addition and

921
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 3: the art of subtraction and substitution the rest of your life,

922
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 3: and that's totally fine. You can't go wrong here. There's

923
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: almost no way to fail once you look at it

924
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 3: this way.

925
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Do you think that there is any like inherent virtue

926
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: to like you're talking about dropping or you know, the

927
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: artist subtraction right, dropping certain anchors adopting new ones. Do

928
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: you think there's anything that's inherently virtuous about sticking with

929
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: a certain anchor over a longer period of time or

930
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: for a duration as opposed to what some folks, I

931
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm just making this up, but might call

932
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: it like anchor hopping to borrow your terminology. But as

933
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: they're going from one thing to the next, only giving

934
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: it maybe a couple of years before maybe moving on

935
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 2: or even finding themselves that they're drawn to something else.

936
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 2: I'm curious to get your thoughts there.

937
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: So here's the deal. When you do something that lights

938
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 3: you up, that's when you're gonna have maximal impact and legacy,

939
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: You're gonna connect to more people, You're gonna do more

940
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: meaningful collaborations, You're gonna eventually touch more people. So here's

941
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 3: the thing. You kind of have to go with how

942
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 3: you feel. So if you are a purpose anchor hopper

943
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 3: or a climb hopper, but that's you know, but it

944
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: fills you up for a certain amount of time, then

945
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: it stops filling you up. If you stick with that

946
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: thing that isn't filling you up for some kind of

947
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 3: larger goal, it goes from being little pea purpose the

948
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 3: really healthy kind of big p purpose, and you're gonna

949
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: burn out and it's not gonna light you up anymore,

950
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 3: and you're not going to impact people as much, and

951
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 3: it's not going to feel as meaningful. And so I

952
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: think it just depends on who you are as a person.

953
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 3: There is no virtue in sticking with something that's lost

954
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 3: its thrill just in service of some type of big,

955
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 3: audacious goal, because ultimately you'll leave. And that's the same thing.

956
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 3: I could have said the same thing about medicine. Maybe

957
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: I should have stuck with medicine because my ability to

958
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 3: help people and change the world was greater, But the

959
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 3: longer I tried to do that. The more I burned out.

960
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: When I started doing things I loved, like podcasting and

961
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: public speaking and blogging, something strange happened. I might affect

962
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 3: a thousand patients a year at most, but when I

963
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 3: started blogging and podcasting and public speaking, I started affecting

964
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 3: thousands and thousands and thousands of people more because I

965
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 3: was doing something that lit me up. That was never

966
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 3: my plan, that was never my goal, but I ended

967
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: up attracting detracting people because like a moth to a flame,

968
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: and they saw me lit up and they wanted to

969
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 3: be involved. And that's what led to all these collaborations

970
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 3: and to all these guests on my podcast and eventually

971
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: getting an agent and books and all of that came

972
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: from doing things that lit me up, and I ended

973
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: up having more of an impact than being a doctor.

974
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: But I would have never known that at the start.

975
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: Drilled down a little bit on kind of your journey

976
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 1: with purpose, because in the book, you make it sound

977
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: like the first forty years of your life were not purposeless,

978
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: but that you had a hard time figuring out what

979
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: your purpose was. But now it sounds like you're like

980
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: living in it and living your best life.

981
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 3: So here's the thing. When my dad died, he was

982
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: an oncologist, a doctor. I felt responsible because I was

983
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: seven years old. He had a brain in years man

984
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 3: nothing to do with me, But seven year olds kind

985
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 3: of see life through the lens of they are everything.

986
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: So I figured he died because I wasn't enough or

987
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 3: something was wrong with me, and I thought I could

988
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 3: cosmically fix that becoming a doctor like him. So I

989
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 3: had a big, audacious purpose. I wanted to fix his death,

990
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 3: and the way I was going to do that was

991
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: to become a doctor. So I co opted his version

992
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 3: of purpose, thinking that would make me happy. Now, I'll

993
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: tell you, there was a lot of joy in this

994
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 3: idea of becoming a doctor and the excitement about it.

995
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 3: And I loved studying and all those things. So it

996
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: wasn't that it didn't fill me up in a way.

997
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't a waste.

998
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 3: It wasn't a waste. But as I got older, I

999
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: realized that those things I thought it was it wasn't like.

1000
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 3: I became a doctor and guess what, I didn't fix

1001
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: my father's death. It didn't work. So instead I was

1002
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: doing these things, which by the time I was practicing.

1003
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: I realized I didn't enjoy the process of doing them.

1004
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 3: So I was filling my time doing things I didn't

1005
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: like in order to reach a goal that was pretty

1006
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: much impossible. And so that's how I started to finally

1007
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: realize something's wrong here. And I knew because you know,

1008
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: I didn't have a lot of doctor friends, like I

1009
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: wasn't building the community and connections because this identity, the

1010
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: sense of purpose, wasn't fitting me. I didn't like hanging

1011
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 3: out with doctors. I didn't like telling people that I

1012
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 3: was a doctor. I was almost embarrassed, strangely enough, when

1013
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 3: I started pursuing what really felt like little purpose py

1014
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: purpose to me because I knew I liked writing and

1015
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: blogging and podcasting, and when I started doing that stuff,

1016
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: I started to connecting to people like you guys, and

1017
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: I was like, I found my people, because after ten

1018
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: or fifteen minutes of talking to fellow bloggers and podcasters,

1019
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: I felt like I knew them more than I do.

1020
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: Doctors I had known for decades, and so I wouldn't

1021
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 3: say that the beginning of my life was purpose less.

1022
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 3: I think I was pursuing a version of purpose that

1023
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 3: ultimately wasn't going to make me happy, and that's why

1024
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: I had to pivot.

1025
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: All the while you were still able to provide value

1026
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: to the world. It's not like you were some sort

1027
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: of leech on society, Jordan, but like, and it did.

1028
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: Fill me up. I mean, I you know, even the

1029
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 3: things I do now, Like I wrote a book about

1030
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 3: what the hospice patients can teach us about money and life.

1031
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 3: So clearly this has had a huge impact on me,

1032
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 3: my ability to tell stories, and some of the lessons

1033
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 3: that I now put in my books are all gleeding

1034
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: from that time as a doctor. And so again, remember

1035
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: we talk about the different difference between meaning and purpose.

1036
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 3: I tell myself a heroic story. I say, I went

1037
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 3: into this thing that didn't suit me, but look at

1038
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: all this bounty that came from it. I wasn't thwarted,

1039
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 3: I wasn't a victim. I lived a magical life, and

1040
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: that life has brought me here where I get to

1041
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: do these things which are amazing and exciting. My sense

1042
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 3: of meaning. The story I tell myself about myself is

1043
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 3: a heroic journey, and so I can't imagine looking at

1044
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 3: it and saying, boy, that was a waste all.

1045
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: Right, last question. So the Fire movement is all about

1046
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: financial independence, retire early. It's like saving sixty seventy percent

1047
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: of my income so that I can you retire at

1048
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: thirty eight or thirty six or whatever it is. And

1049
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: you know, I get why that's appealing. But sometimes in

1050
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: order to be able to live the purpose you want to,

1051
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: especially in some of those really important years where you

1052
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: have typically better health, you have your youth, that fire.

1053
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: There's a big trade off that comes from working extra,

1054
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: banking extra, and maybe missing out on things that would

1055
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: provide fulfillment. So how do you think about that?

1056
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: Now?

1057
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: I see like some serious flaws and it seems like

1058
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: the fire movement has moderated in some ways. But the

1059
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: fulfillment versus fire or they like, I don't know, smashing

1060
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: heads a little bit.

1061
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 3: Well, here's the problem. I mean, fire is wonderful and

1062
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 3: I'm so glad I found financial independence because it gave

1063
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 3: me the vocabulary in the framework to build the financial future.

1064
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: On the other hand, it's very money focused, so what

1065
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: you're really doing is focusing on the tool. So you're

1066
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 3: making a trade off. You're saying, I'm going to spend

1067
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: a lot of time not doing things that are important

1068
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: to me to make money so that one day I

1069
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: can stop working at making money and then live this

1070
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: life of purpose and activities that I love doing and

1071
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 3: things that light me up. So you're making this intentional decision,

1072
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: which is wonderful if you are for sure going to

1073
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: live to eighty or ninety and for sure are going

1074
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: to succeed, and for sure don't mind putting off some

1075
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: of your life. Like you know it so happens when

1076
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: you're in your twenties. A lot of time that's the

1077
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 3: first time you meet your spouse, right, so it's a

1078
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: season of your life that doesn't come back that honeymoon

1079
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 3: phase and like you cannot go on awesome vacations and

1080
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 3: you can spend weekends and nights in the office instead

1081
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 3: of spending time with that spouse. But once that time

1082
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: is gone, for instance, once you have children, that time

1083
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: of being newlyweds or together without children is gone. Do

1084
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 3: you want to miss that season of your life because

1085
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: you've decided that building this tool of money is more

1086
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: important than living life. Now to be really intentional about

1087
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: that decision, I think grinding it out is okay on

1088
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 3: some level, especially if you're very intentional, but if you

1089
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 3: take it to an extreme, you miss out on all

1090
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: the good stuff, and sometimes those seasons pass and you

1091
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 3: can't get it back, or God forbid, you're like my

1092
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: dad and you die when you're forty and never really

1093
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 3: get to use that tool of wealth to live the

1094
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: life you want to live. So I want to empower

1095
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: people to feel like they can start building purpose in

1096
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: their life now, whether they have enough money or not,

1097
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: but also build a financial framework around it so that

1098
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 3: they can begin now today when they're twenty two or

1099
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 3: twenty five or thirty, but then they can continue improving

1100
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: the calculus of that calendar, building up enough money to

1101
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: use it as a powerful tool to get rid of

1102
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 3: things you loathe, to build in more things you like.

1103
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 3: It's all an iterative process. But I wouldn't want people

1104
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 3: to just give up on purpose early in life because

1105
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 3: they think they got to grind it out and reach

1106
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 3: fire first, because you just don't know what the future

1107
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 3: is going to bring or even if you'll live to

1108
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 3: that vaunted time that you reach financial independence. And some

1109
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 3: people never make it to financial independence, and I don't

1110
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: want that to preclude them from living a good life today.

1111
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: Man Well said I personally feel empowered based on what

1112
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: you're saying here, Jordan, and it's man, it's so true,

1113
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 2: like it's so much about trade offs, and you said

1114
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: something else do just about this being an iterative process,

1115
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,959
Speaker 2: the fact that I think for folks to hear that

1116
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily going to get it right straight out

1117
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: of the gate, but that this is something that we

1118
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 2: continue to refine and something that we revisit over the

1119
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: years to see what it is that's going to make

1120
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: the biggest impact in our lives and our families, lives

1121
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: and our community, all of the above. But Jordan, we

1122
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 2: really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today.

1123
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: We will certainly make sure to link to your book,

1124
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: which came out yesterday actually, and so we'll link to

1125
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: that in the show notes. Anywhere else you want folks

1126
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: to go to learn more about you and what's going on.

1127
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 3: Easiest place to go is Jordan Grummitt dot com. That's

1128
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 3: j O R D A N G r U met.

1129
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 3: There you can find links to both my books, taking

1130
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 3: Stock and now the Purpose Code, as well as all

1131
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 3: the places I create content, including the Earned and invest

1132
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 3: podcasts and the Purpose Code substack check me out Jordan

1133
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: Grummitt dot com.

1134
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: Nice Jordan, always a pleasure man, Thanks for coming on.

1135
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me man.

1136
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 2: Always so fun to talk with our friend Jordan Grummitt. No,

1137
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: but what was your big takeaway though with our conversation?

1138
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: Man, there's so much overlap between kind of what Jordan

1139
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: talks about and we talk more about the money stuff.

1140
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: But we want that purpose and meaning to infuse everything

1141
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: that we talk about instead of just talking about the

1142
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of moneies and roth I rais And

1143
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: that obviously plays a part because we want to make

1144
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: money progress, but it should get specific, Yeah, but it

1145
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: should influence I think the overarching goals and purpose of

1146
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: our life agreed. And when he talks about community and connections,

1147
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: I think that's spot on, right, because even if you

1148
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: get into something a new athletic endeavor or a new hobby, like,

1149
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: the connections you can make inside of that world are

1150
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: typically the most fulfill part of it. Like, yeah, do

1151
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: you like pickleball?

1152
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: Cool?

1153
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 1: It's a fun sport, right, But maybe the most fun

1154
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: thing is when you on Saturday mornings at six am

1155
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: get up and play with this big group of folks

1156
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: who also love it and then you hang out and

1157
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: have coffee afterwards.

1158
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I think personally, I think that's why

1159
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 2: pick a Ball has taken off in our country like

1160
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: it has over the past few years, because it has

1161
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: that social connectivity community with settlement. I think a lot

1162
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 2: of times folks may not even realize that, but like

1163
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: that's what they're drawn to. It's the less this little

1164
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: silly game that they're playing with paddles.

1165
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: Same thing with Triple f right, which is like the

1166
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: workout based and people say, oh, yeah, the workout's fine,

1167
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: but it's the man that the relationships I've developed by

1168
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: going to that have been instrumental to like my life

1169
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: and so yeah, one of my friends he says, all

1170
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: my wealth is in relationships. I like the idea of

1171
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: growing monetary wealth, obviously because of the podcast we do,

1172
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: but I think that's not a bad motto to have

1173
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: for your life, is for your relational connections to be

1174
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: pre eminent, because I think that that will influence purpose.

1175
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, Jordan boiled down to

1176
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: that as being one of the foremost reasons for happiness.

1177
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: So sure, and I think this time of year too,

1178
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: purpose over goals That's why we wanted to have Jordan on.

1179
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 3: Now.

1180
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: There's so much talk about goals, goal setting, what are

1181
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: you going to accomplish this year?

1182
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: And those are the yeah, those are the big pie's yeah,

1183
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 2: which are good to have, but then it can oftentimes

1184
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 2: leave you burnt out and feeling kind of demoralized. That's right.

1185
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: So I think that talking more about purpose and being

1186
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: more introspective about that could potentially get you where you

1187
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: want to go this year more than maybe some crusty

1188
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: old goal setting agenda that you were thinking about trying out.

1189
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: Nice Okay, so my big takeaway is going to be

1190
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 2: so he talked a lot about purpose anchors, which are

1191
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: the things that we can kind of like latch onto,

1192
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 2: you know, like like picture like an anchor that goes

1193
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: into a wall, or even like a boat anchor, right,

1194
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: and building your life around these things that bring you fulfillment.

1195
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: And at some point he was talking about going with

1196
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 2: how it is that you feel when it comes to

1197
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: identifying these things, which kind of raise their red flagma

1198
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: mic because I'm just like Van, what do we know

1199
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: about feelings? They are fickle and like one day you

1200
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: might love something, the next day you might hate it,

1201
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: but ultimately you might find yourself over analyzing it, and

1202
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: I think what instead, what you need to do is

1203
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: focus on the things that bring you enjoyment, like over

1204
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 2: the long haul. Like think about it like the stock market.

1205
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 2: We're not talking about what is it that is going

1206
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 2: up into the right just in one day, but zoom

1207
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: out like zoom out over a week, over a month,

1208
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: over a year, even over decades, and what is the

1209
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: activity or the purpose anchor that pretty much is going

1210
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: to constantly lead to you going up into the right.

1211
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 2: Another analogy is makes me think about like a tattoo.

1212
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: I don't have any tattoos, but if I were to

1213
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 2: get a tattoo, and I've even said this to Kate before,

1214
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: it would need to be something that I'm never going

1215
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: to change my mind on because I don't want to

1216
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: have to go back in and get it like laser removed.

1217
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 1: Right.

1218
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 2: My friends James their minds on tattoos, but there are

1219
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: very few things that would do that. But for me,

1220
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 2: it would be maybe faith based. It would be something

1221
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,479
Speaker 2: family based. And I think that if there is something

1222
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 2: in your life that is that foundational.

1223
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: To bald eagle and American flag problem, you change your

1224
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 1: mind on America.

1225
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: Math even still, who knows, maybe I'll end up moving

1226
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: to a different country depending on the state of become

1227
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 2: a front file. But I think it's fine to identify

1228
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: some of these like major purpose anchors that you can

1229
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 2: kind of build your life around, or again, don't overthink it,

1230
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 2: Like what's something that just lights you up right without

1231
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: getting overly analytical about it? And I think by taking

1232
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: small baby steps like the example he gave at the beginning,

1233
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 2: like this, the whole swimming example, it's like, Okay, you

1234
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: don't have to get a like iron Man triathlon tattoo

1235
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: because now you're a hardcore swimmer. No, how about you

1236
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 2: just start by going one day a week with your

1237
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: buddy and going to swim, and maybe it turns into

1238
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: this other thing, but you haven't over committed to something

1239
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 2: like that, and don't be a f I guess maybe

1240
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: I'm speaking out of my own from my own perspective,

1241
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: but I would be afraid of like over committing to

1242
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: something and being like, well, I don't know if that's

1243
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: who I am, And it's like, well, doesn't have to

1244
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: be who you are. Just take some of these small

1245
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: baby steps in that direction, and then just see how

1246
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: whether or not that lights you up or not.

1247
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think when he said the feelings thing, Matt,

1248
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: that also kind of hit me a little interesting, hit

1249
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: me a little weird, because I, Yeah, there are times

1250
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: where I don't feel great about coming into work on

1251
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: a certain day, even though overarchingly I love what we

1252
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: do exactly and I love the work that we get

1253
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: to create, and how the money is a big, p

1254
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: purpose a thing in my life. But you're right, there's

1255
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: the feelings don't always, shouldn't always dictate.

1256
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: Don't always align ye with maybe what it is you

1257
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: should be doing that longer term perspective. Yeah, which again,

1258
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: and maybe this is a good application with like the

1259
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: whole investing thing, but being able to zoom out identifying

1260
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: like an overarching trend as opposed to like the day

1261
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: to day gyrations of how you feel or even what

1262
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 2: the market's doing. For sure.

1263
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: But let's get back to the beer.

1264
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: A beer that was sent to us by Mary. Is

1265
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 2: it Mary Starboard?

1266
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's from Mary.

1267
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 2: She sent this to us as well as actually, should

1268
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: we mention not only does she send her husband's favorite beer,

1269
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: she sent us this all the Christmas decoration and by

1270
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 2: all the Christmas decoration. I literally mean it's this Christmas

1271
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 2: village miniature all day store that lights up when you

1272
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 2: turn it on. You know, like the Christmas village that

1273
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: you create with like people ice skating. Yeah, you got

1274
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: you kind of got the white fluff around. This is

1275
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: something to kind of like slip in there without being

1276
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: noticed in the background, next to some cottages or something

1277
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: like that. But she sent this our way, and.

1278
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: It's the only Christmas decoration we have, and so thank

1279
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: you Mary for We really should have put some tinsel

1280
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: or something up here, but we got We've got an

1281
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,479
Speaker 1: Aldie store, which is actually perfectly fitting.

1282
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: Well, the question is how long do we leave this

1283
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 2: up in our office because we love aldi all year long.

1284
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: Well, we've talked about keeping our Christmas tree up all

1285
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: month of January. Really yeah, so just because it's too depressing.

1286
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: It's the most depressing month of the year, so like

1287
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: you got to have some sort of That's what Emily

1288
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: and I were literally just talking about this how December

1289
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: is so great because it's cold, but it's festive and

1290
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: there's lights everywhere, and January is the worst because it's

1291
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: cold and everyone's taking down their lights anyway prolonged.

1292
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the enjoyment, yeap. The beer. The beer though, that

1293
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: you and I enjoyed was a cold brewed coffee Logger

1294
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: by Steel Hands Brewing. But uh, yeah, what'd you think

1295
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 2: about this one?

1296
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: So this combines two of our favorite things. We love coffee,

1297
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: we love beer indeed, and usually coffee goes in stouts reporters,

1298
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: in bigger, darker, roastier beers, which makes sense. But you

1299
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: don't often get coffee in a lagger. So this is

1300
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: like a light beer with cold brew kind of infused

1301
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: into it. And I wasn't sure what I was going

1302
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: to think about this, but I liked it me too, Yeah, okay, nice,

1303
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: I was.

1304
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 2: I was impressed. We both have basically yeah, finished hours

1305
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: by the end of our conversation with Jordan.

1306
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's partly because the coffee didn't

1307
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: get overwhelmed in the same way that that it tends

1308
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: to do in some of those bigger thirteen percent stops

1309
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: or something like that, where there's all of these other

1310
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: notes going on. This was like coffee on top of

1311
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: a beer. But I feel like I got the coffee

1312
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: more so than I would in a lot of other

1313
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: coffee beer.

1314
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was perfectly coffee while at the same time

1315
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: being perfectly beer. And I feel like oftentimes, yeah, there's like,

1316
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, a mingling of the two. But it

1317
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 2: almost felt like these two were like separate as I

1318
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: was drinking it, Like the initial notes were totally coffee,

1319
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: but then you get like the better notes from from

1320
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 2: the hops there in the lagger. But I enjoyed this,

1321
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, more than I was expecting. When I

1322
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: first I was just like, oh man, I'm not totally

1323
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 2: sure about this, but I would one hundred percent totally

1324
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 2: drink this, enjoy some of this coffee roasted coffee flavors

1325
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: without the hang up of maybe staying up too late

1326
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 2: due to the caffeine intake.

1327
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: But that's a good point.

1328
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: Really enjoyed it. Mary, Thank you so much for sending

1329
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 2: this this one our way. Well, like we said, we'll

1330
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: link to Jordan's book up on the website at howdomoney

1331
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: dot com. It is out and now be sure to

1332
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: check it out. But buddy, that's going to be it.

1333
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 2: So until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.