1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: I think today we're doing tunnels, Is that right? Yeah, 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: we're going to venture into some strange tunnels in the earth. Um. 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Joe, but I love a 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: good creepy tunnel story. Um. You know, any caliber of 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: motion picture. If you have like a subway tunnel and 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: you have a monster shambling around down there, even possibility 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: of a monster shambling around down there, I'm generally on board. 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's one of the classics. And 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: you know your your your your fairytale types. One of 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: the big ones is you've got to go into the underworld, right, 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: And what's closer in physical reality to an underworld than 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: cave or a tunnel. Caves and tunnels, any humans have 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: have long been fascinated by them. You know, we see 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: a cave, we want to get in there. We need 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: to know what's going on, we need to find out 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: what kind of sacred uh secrets are contained in there. 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: And so you know, I'm also continually fascinated by tales 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: of of you know, modern tunnel systems, abandoned tunnel systems 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: from from further back in history. UM. I also love 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: a good you know, tunnel of unknown origin stories such 24 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: as the Strange Tunnels and the Hyperion novels, or oh, 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: another a film in this case that had some strange tunnels. 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: There's the whole tunnel plotline in Jordan Peel's two thousand 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: nineteen film US. Yeah. Yeah, let's not spoil anything about that. 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna spoil anything, but it does open with 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: a with a fun text crawl, uh quote. There are 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: thousands of miles of tunnels beneath the United States, abandoned 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: subway systems, unused service roots, and deserted mind shafts. Many 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: have no known purpose at all. So I instantly I was, 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, on board for that. I love a good 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: informational legend like that. Uh. And the fun thing about 35 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: that quote is that it's it's a fun one to 36 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: ponder over because on one hand, it's sort of true. 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: There are a lot of of of abandoned tunnel systems 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: in the United States, some with some pretty engaging stories 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: about them at times, you know, old minds, abandoned subway 40 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: projects and abandoned subway lines. I'm a real I'm a 41 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: real sucker for that sort of thing. Um. Also, you know, ultimately, 42 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: I think this is the filming question is one that 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: maybe doesn't you know, I supposed to take it completely 44 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: seriously and think, well, there's this entire system of of 45 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: tunnels and who knows what's going on down there? But 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: it also reminds me of what we're talking about here today, uh, 47 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: the story of mysterious tunnels uh and caves caverns in 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: South America. Now, what makes today's example really interesting is 49 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: normally you're going to think about your your mysterious tunnels 50 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: in two categories. One is one is, obviously, you know, 51 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: a cave of geological origin, you know, uh, oh, you know, 52 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: here's here's a millions of years old cave with with 53 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: stalactites and stalagmites, clearly a water formed cavity of some type. 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: But then the other bucket, of course, is who made 55 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: this tunnel, what human dug this and for what purpose? 56 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: But actually, uh, those two categories leave out leave out 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: another option, don't they? Yeah, and it's not aliens. The 58 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: fun thing about this is you don't need aliens to 59 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: get to the you know, the wow moment, to the 60 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: to the amazing content of this particular topic, because we're 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: still we still seem to be dealing with a non 62 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: human entity U, a non human will behind these um, 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: these these tunnels or caves or or burrows. Uh is 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: probably more appropriate to call them these paleo burrows of 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: South America. They're not the work of of a pre 66 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Columbian society. Uh, they're older and they're quite impressive. Well, 67 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: as we dive in here, I want to mention that 68 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: that one of my main sources here is an excellent 69 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: book that came out, I believe in seventeen by Anthony J. Martin, 70 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: a paleontologist at Emory University here here in Atlanta, titled 71 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: The Evolution Underground Burrows, Bunkers, and the Marvelous Subterranean World 72 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: Beneath Our Feet. Um. I've been meaning to cover this 73 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: book in some form or another for a while, and 74 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: I saw it on the shelf again. I was like, 75 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: all right, today's the day I'm gonna I'm gonna bust 76 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: this book out and see what grabs my attention. So 77 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: I haven't read this yet, but my interest is piqued 78 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: because I, like, you love a tunnel borrow a din 79 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: under the earth. But I was familiar with Anthony J. 80 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: Martin's name, and I'm not sure, but I think it 81 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: was because he was one of the authors of research 82 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: from two thousand seven that was famous for documenting the 83 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: first fossil evidence of a dinosaur, the Doug Tunnels. Did 84 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: you read about this, Yeah, this is covered in the 85 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: in the in the book. Uh yeah, there's something some 86 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: wonderful illustrations and even in one case, I believe a 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: bit of folk art depicting these creatures, which I loved. 88 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: Uh So the brief rundown on this. The paper where 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: they described this find came out in two thousand seven 90 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: and Proceedings of the Royal Society b Biological Sciences. It 91 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: was by David J. Verrikio, Anthony J. Martin, and Yoshihiro Katsura, 92 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: and it was called first trace and body fossil evidence 93 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: of a burrowing Denning dinosaur. So this fossil find came 94 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: from a formation in southwest Montanas near the border with Idaho. 95 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: I think it's called the Black Leaf Formation, and this 96 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: formation dates back to the mid Cretaceous period. The find 97 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: consisted of both the trace fossil of the borough itself 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: as well as skeletal fossils found inside. The skeletal fossils 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: were of one adult and two juveniles, which apparently all 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: and were fossilized inside the burrow. The dinosaur was a 101 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: member of a previously undiscovered species of Ornithia, which the 102 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: author's name or Ricto dromius cubicularis, and that genus name 103 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: or Rictodromus that means digging runners that gives you a 104 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: hint of like the two main talents of the stat 105 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: build of this dinosaur. These would have been herbivorous dinosaurs 106 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: that lived roughly ninety something million years ago. And so 107 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: one question you might wonder is, well, how do we 108 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: know that the dinosaurs we found inside actually made the 109 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: tunnel or burrow instead of just I don't know, finding 110 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: a a naturally occurring hollow or tunnel made by some 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: other mysterious creature. Well, it seems likely that the dinosaurs 112 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: themselves made it because of the creatures anatomy and because 113 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: of its relationship to the borrow. So, in the words 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: of the author's quote, the features of the snout, shoulder, girdle, 115 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: and pelvis are consistent with digging habits. So it has 116 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: multiple uh anatomical adaptations you would expect to find in 117 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: a creature that specializes in digging. Like it's got a 118 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: snout that is sort of fused together in a way 119 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: that would make it kind of a good shovel for 120 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: like kicking soil back and forth, and it's skeletal structure 121 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: seems well put together to kind of brace itself with 122 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: the back limbs or the pelvis as it uses its 123 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: four limbs to dig and and throw soil out behind it. Yeah, 124 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: this is something that's UH that's touched on with various 125 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: organisms in this book that no organism needs the tools 126 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: for burrowing or digging. But it's not just the you 127 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: know something on matter having claws or some sort of snout. 128 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: It also needs uh like the body to back it up. 129 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: And so we can look at the bodies of many 130 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: of these organisms that are extinct now and we can 131 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: we can make very informed UH guesses about what their 132 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: body had evolved to do. Right, you need the right 133 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: kind of chassis to give you leverage with which to dig, 134 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: because you remember, your digging is not just about what 135 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: the hands are doing in the front. The four limbs 136 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: scraping away at things. You all, the bracing is really important. 137 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: You gotta hold your ground while you're scraping. Yes, yeah, 138 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: you can't just put a big scoop on the front 139 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: of your um. I don't know your prius and say 140 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna go out and start moving earth around. But 141 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: another clue that that the dinosaurs inside this burrow dug 142 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: it were the fact that the borrow almost perfectly matches 143 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: the width and breadth of the torso of the adult. 144 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: So it seems like this is a borrow of the 145 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: right size to have been dug by the adult dinosaur. 146 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: And the adult is found along with two juveniles inside 147 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: the borrow, and they were found with no bite marks 148 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: or anything on the bones, no signs of of carnivore 149 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: bone assemblies like you might sometimes find where you know 150 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: carnivore is dumping all the bones from its recent meals. 151 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: So it looks like this was not just a tunnel 152 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: dug by a dinosaur, but one that an adult dinosaur 153 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: lived in side with its juveniles. And this would provide 154 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: evidence of a case of extended parental care in dinosaurs, 155 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: something that I think was uh less well evidenced and 156 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: more controversial at the time, and based on the size 157 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: of the juveniles, it appears that this parental care had 158 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: gone on for at least several months. Yeah, yeah, this 159 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: is a This is in stark contrast to some of 160 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: the hypothesized ways that say, giant sauropods would have dealt 161 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: with their young. I remember discussing that on the podcast, 162 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: where like at least one hypothesis was the like the 163 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: eggs kind of just fall out and they just rolled 164 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: us aside and then they do their thing. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 165 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: totally different parenting strategy. Anyway. The authors of this paper 166 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: note that vertebrates today create burrows, of course for a 167 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: number of reasons. Some actually use tunneling as a as 168 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: a food foraging strategy, trying to get underground food. Some 169 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: use it for escaping predators that's a common one, as 170 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: a type of shelter that protects you, and some use 171 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: it for are avoiding the elements in harsh environments. But 172 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: the other half of the equation is that this animal, 173 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: or Rictodromus, was also a cursor, which means a runner. 174 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: Remember the name means digging runner. And the authors of 175 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: this paper say that if we look at analogies today. 176 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: Running animals that create burrows tend to do so for 177 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: a pretty specific reason, which is they create them as 178 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: dens for rearing their young. So once you give birth 179 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: to young, the young and the juveniles are pretty vulnerable 180 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: for a while until they get bigger, big enough to 181 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: run around and defend themselves like an adult can, and 182 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: so a den provides a place to protect the young 183 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: while they're growing and still vulnerable. Now, Joe, you included 184 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: a fabulous bit of paleo art here from this uh 185 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: this study, this is actually in the book as well. Um, 186 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: I love a good bit of paleo art. But here 187 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: we see the parent, we see a cutaway of the burrow, 188 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: and we see the two young dinos at the bottom. 189 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: I like the the paleo artist in this case has 190 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: chosen to depict the adult Erictodromus as Sam the Eagle 191 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: from the Muppets, as a very severe eyebrow and uh 192 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: and and very well. I think this is anatomically accurate 193 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: the beak like mouth. Yes, well, anyway, sorry if that 194 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: was a digression from the paleo burrows, but I just 195 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: wanted to say, yeah, so you're looking at this book 196 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: by Anthony J. Martin. And Martin has a history with 197 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: with the diggers. Yeah, and Martin knows his his tunnels 198 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: and his his burrows here and so he he discusses 199 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: the paleo burrows in the Evolution Underground, pointing out that 200 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: geologists in Argentina and Brazil noted these burrows back in 201 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. Uh. Some had partially 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: or wholly filled with sediment, but others remained quite open. Uh. 203 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: They were cutting a variety of soft um, igneous, metamorphic, 204 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: and set and sedimentary bedrock. So we're talking about we're 205 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: talking about rock here. That's one of the the important 206 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: and I think really impressive things about about this. Uh. 207 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: Some of some were visible in outcrops, others as cylindrical chambers. 208 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: There are some actually some wonderful photographs you can find 209 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: online and attached to various UM articles about these papers 210 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: about these Uh, they're quite impressive. They look just like 211 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: like a tunnel cut through a rock. You can you 212 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: know that you they look like that. They look like 213 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: real tunnels. We're not just talking about just an indention 214 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: in the side of a hill. Yeah, some of them 215 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: look like somebody brought in the boring machine like a large, 216 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: like several meter wide, basically circular, cylindrical tunnel. Others are smaller, 217 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: more compact, or more kind of a half moon shape. 218 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: But I just wanted to flag this was interesting because 219 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: so Martin notes that the people had previously observed these 220 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: things in the twenties and thirties in Argentina and Brazil. Now, 221 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: I had been reading about the paleo burrows in some 222 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: articles that came out in ten and those articles were 223 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: were essentially saying that that nobody had ever reported these 224 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: things until just recently, that they just sort of come 225 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: on the radar. But it seems like Martin has turned 226 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: up some other previous reports of of these things. Yeah, yeah, 227 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: that that's what seems to be the case. But the 228 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: important thing is that they weren't exactly sure what they 229 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: were looking at here. Now and over the decades to follow, 230 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of these caves were uncovered, with a lot of 231 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: concentration in the area of what is now Rio Grande 232 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: do Sol in southern Brazil. Um others other of paleo 233 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: burrows of this nature are simply undiscovered. Uh. I've seen 234 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: a total number express somewhere around like fifteen hundred. And 235 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: again they're likely others as well that haven't been discovered 236 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: or will never be discovered, you know. Yeah, the reporting 237 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: I was reading said that most of these are clustered 238 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: in kind of a kind of strange geographical bands, like 239 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: right in this area in southern Brazil, but not further 240 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: south than like Uruguay. But then if you go even 241 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: further south, there are some more down further into Argentina. Yeah. 242 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: So the archaeologists came back and they were studying them 243 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: with renewed interest in the seventies and eighties, and they 244 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: hypothesized that these were surely the work of human beings. 245 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: Martin writes, quote, considering their proportions and geological setting. This 246 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: was a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, as they superficially resembled human 247 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: made tunnels and chambers in Cappadocia and elsewhere. Now, Cappadocia 248 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: is is noted here, as u is a place that 249 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: in what is modern day Turkey, where you have these 250 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: hit wonderful historic cave houses that can still be seen today. Um, Joe, 251 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: you might be interested to also note that they filmed 252 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: parts of your The Hunter from the future here. Yes, 253 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: there there are quite clear signs of The movie has 254 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: scenes of of the of its muscly superstar, a brown, 255 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: scuttling around over these beautiful rock formations. I think he 256 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: fights a dinosaur in what is clearly Cappadocia than now. 257 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: While some of these paleo burrows, again in South America 258 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: were too small to have served as anything other than 259 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: hiding places for children, um, he writes that others were 260 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: large enough to have potentially been human dwellings. The largest 261 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: were as wide as thirteen feet or four meters um. 262 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: They were six point six feet tall or you know, 263 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: two or two meters, and they were more than three 264 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty feet long or about a hundred meters 265 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: in length. So again, well, you know, in many of 266 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: these cases, we're not just talking about uh, some sort 267 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: of a narrow burrow, but but something that that that 268 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: that a family or small group could have lived in. Quote. Moreover, 269 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: some tunnels connected with one another or joined larger sub 270 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: spherical chain burrs to make more complicated networks. Once put together, 271 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: some of these spaces feasibly could have served as underground 272 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: homes for families or small communities. A few even contain petroglyphs, 273 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: showing that pre Columbian people entered at least some of them. 274 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: And as we've we've touched on already and know there's 275 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: a there's a long history of humans using naturally occurring caves, 276 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: if not for shelter, then for for other purposes, be 277 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: it like, um, you know, a burial or some sort 278 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: of sacred purpose, or in some cases, you know, we're 279 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: not sure exactly what that purpose might have been. Uh. 280 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: And then we have excellent examples of places like Cappadocia, 281 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: which we just mentioned, which demonstrate that if local geologic 282 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: conditions are conducive to excavation, then homes can be manufactured 283 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: in the substance of the earth. There are also various 284 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: traditions of pit houses partially buried or excavated homes. Again, 285 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: it just kind of depends on the culture what's available 286 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: there in the given environment. But in looking at these 287 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: paleo boroughs, reese ushers begin to notice things that made 288 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: it less likely that humans built these particular tunnels at all. So, 289 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: first of all, while artifacts and petroglyphs did factor into 290 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: some of these sites, we did not find anywhere near 291 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: the amount of human bones and human artifacts that we'd 292 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: expect to find at a place where humans lived, humans visited, 293 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: but they did not seem to live here. And this 294 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: is something that you know, you think of any of 295 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: any of the episodes we've recorded or anything you read 296 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: about about ancient sites of human habitation, you have you know, 297 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: you have these layers you can go through. You can 298 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: you can essentially sort through the garbage of human civilizations 299 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: and learn what they were up to and how long 300 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: they were there. And in these cases, it does not 301 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: seem like there is there are enough artifacts, enough remains 302 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: or even enough you know, um petroglyphs uh to indicate 303 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: that they were here. And that's another thing. Petroglyphic rarity 304 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: in these tunnels indicated, according to Martin quote, folks were 305 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: not inspired enough to hang out in these places. And 306 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: art Another fact, and this gets into the artifact issue 307 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: as well, is indigenous peoples in south eastern South America 308 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: did not have access to the right materials for rock 309 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: carving tools and no evidence of of said tools were found. So, 310 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: again getting back into the that the lack of artifacts 311 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: to support the the idea that humans made these uh, 312 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: these burrows UH and or lived here. So during the 313 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: nine eighties, researchers began to turn their attention away from 314 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: human beings. Uh. They looked at the scale of these 315 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: caves and tunnels. The small child sized tunnels that we mentioned, 316 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: they decided were likely the result of of a smaller 317 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: burrowing prehistoric animals such as giant armadillo. But the grand 318 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: caves and tunnels, the ones in which human families or 319 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: communities could have potentially lived. A new hypothesis emerged for 320 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: these architects, and it's it's not human beings, it's not 321 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: flowing water or you know, natural geologics sees, it is 322 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: the giant ground sloth. The big boys, the big Boys. Yeah, 323 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: so um. I know we've talked about sloths, uh, extant 324 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: sloth species on the show before, and I guess giant 325 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: ground sloths have come up but at least a time 326 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: or two. But I don't think we've really discussed like 327 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: what they were and why they're so cool. Because today 328 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: we have in the world, I believe, six extant species 329 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: of oar boreal sloths. You know, they live in the trees, 330 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: and these are certainly weird and wonderful animals. Um. I'll 331 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: be the first to admit that they can be a 332 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: bit of a bore. If you encounter them in the zoo, 333 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: you know, they're typically just um, you know, bunched in 334 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: the corner of a of an exhibit, you know, just 335 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: chilling or staying warm. Uh. I find that they often 336 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: look like a like a wig hanging on a hook. Yeah. 337 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: And uh, And I mean I'm not commenting on their 338 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: their happiness or lack of happiness there, but they're not 339 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: as interests. They're not magical to behold. But in the wild, uh, 340 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: they come off these two strange elemental spirit beings. I 341 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: had the privilege to glimpse one in the wild ones 342 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: and it was just magical. It's got like this kind 343 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: of thing that like slowly emerges out of the canopy 344 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: and the distance, and you glimpse it for a short 345 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: amount of time and then it's gone. They're also magical 346 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: in a different way if you get up close enough 347 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: to see their face, because they often appear to be smiling. Yes, 348 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: they have very that their faces are in this wonderful 349 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: place that where they You know that we lean into 350 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: anthropomorphizing them rather easily. They look kind of like they're smiling. 351 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: They look a little a little dirty, which is you 352 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: know which which is cute too? Cuteness um and yeah, 353 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: and don't even get it started on baby slots. Absolutely adorable. 354 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: So we have today three toad slots and two toad slots. 355 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: This refers to the four limbs only, and these represent 356 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: two distantly related families that experience convergent evolution to our 357 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: boreal life. Okay, so the sloth lineage is not one 358 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: that that always existed in the trees. The species we 359 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: have today are the ones that happened to move into 360 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: the trees at some point in in in deep history. 361 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, Because plenty of these other slots or 362 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: or slothes if you, if you were rather believe it's 363 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: the British pronounciation. Um, many of them were ground slots, 364 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: and in some cases we're talking giant ground slots. And 365 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: these can be quite impressive. I've enjoyed looking at at bones, 366 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, fossil exhibits of these over time. There's also 367 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: a wonderful, full scale, muddy and shaggy recreation of of 368 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: of a ground slot that Atlanta's own firm Bank Museum 369 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: of Natural History. I don't know if you've been over 370 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: to see this, Joe. But it's in the walk through 371 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: Time in Georgia exhibit. Yeah, I have been through that before, 372 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: though I don't remember exactly what this one looks like. 373 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a picture of it online. Hold on, 374 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, here it is. I remember this now, Okay, 375 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: the sloth needs a bath. First of all, it is filthy. 376 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: It looks really gross. Yeah, it's it's it's it's impressive. 377 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: I imagine it's been I don't know how long it's 378 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 1: been there, but it has to have been impressing school children, uh, 379 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: for for quite a while at this point. And I 380 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: hope that if at some point they they they change 381 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: anything in that exhibit, they keep the sloth. Uh. This 382 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: would have been a keeping dirty, keep it dirty, keep it, 383 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: keep it, keep it on display. Uh. This would have 384 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: I believe this would have been an airmatherium, which was 385 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: a giant ground slot that would have lived four point 386 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: nine million years ago to around eleven thousand years ago. 387 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: And it was. It was a pretty big big guy, 388 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: rivaling but not surpassing the megatherium in size. Now megatherium, 389 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: this is the This is the biggest of the known 390 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: ground sloths. Of prehistoric times. Uh. Megatherium is Latin for 391 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: the great beast. Oh, I've never put that together before, 392 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: the theory um theoryum being beast, But that would be like, 393 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: as in the word theory amorphic, taking the form of 394 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: a beast. So these guys reached heights of twenty feet 395 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: or six meters, and they probably weighed roughly four tons, uh, 396 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: you know, dealing with the adults here obviously. Um. It 397 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: was simply put the sloth as megafauna fear and feeling 398 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: that filling that niche in the in the ecosystem, a 399 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: giant eating machine that didn't have to worry too much 400 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: about predators, ate a lot to maintain their enormous bodies 401 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: and then also slept a lot to digest it. This 402 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: particular guy would have been as big as an elephant, 403 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: and it it exceeded at the time only in size, 404 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: uh you know, concerning mammals by some terrestrial mammals, by 405 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: some mammoths during its day. So this was a huge animal. 406 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: And while there are some I think these are mainly controversial, 407 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: there's a controversial hypothesis that it might have been partially carnivorous, 408 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: uh you know, perhaps feasting on scavenge dead animals, such 409 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: as I believe the glyptodonts, but it's wildly thought. I 410 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: believe that they were merely selective herbivores, though there are 411 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: some ground slots that I think there there's more robust 412 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: evidence that they may have been sporadically omnivorous, such as 413 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: the Mila don Darwini. There was I believe, a two 414 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: thousand twenty one study looking at the copper lights of it, 415 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: the the fossil pooh of this particular slot, and they 416 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: determined that, yeah, it was probably scavenging some meat here 417 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: and there to to make things, to make ends meet. So, 418 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: as we've discussed on the show several times, they're actually 419 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: quite a there's quite robust documentation that many animals we 420 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: think of is pretty much strictly herbivorous, will in some 421 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: strange occasions eat meat. Right. Nature is just pretty opportunistic. 422 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna take what it gets. Yeah, So 423 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: you know that this is just a starter on just 424 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: how weird and strange these uh, these these loths truly were. 425 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're huge. There's the there's this idea 426 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: that some of them are also eating a little meat 427 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: here and there. But then when you start realizing that, Okay, 428 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: looking at these paleo burrows, we're talking about giant ground 429 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: slots that were not just digging in mud and dirt, 430 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: they were burrowing through rock. Uh, We're just in a 431 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: whole different dimension of wonder here. In my opinion, Martin 432 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: writes that as paleontologists in Argentina and Brazil started looking 433 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: closer at the at the the paleo burrows, they began 434 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: to find clear signs that they were made. They seem 435 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: to have been made by giant sloths. They were so. 436 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: First of all, they saw there were groove marks in 437 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: the walls that matched the size and claw account of 438 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: ground slots, usually two toad and then also the dimensions 439 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: of the tunnels pointed towards the slots. These were not 440 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: smooth and cylindrical tunnels, but quote a series of semi 441 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: elliptical chambers with flat floors but ceilings that's that were 442 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: possibly buffed out into concave shapes by the sloths backs 443 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: and the resulting complexes of tunnels and rooms. Again this 444 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: this feeling that you're going into a multi chambered subterranean habitat. 445 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: These were likely the result of many generations of ground 446 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: slots returning to a given site year after year, So 447 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: not just one creating this, but you know, coming back 448 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: to the same location and uh and essentially adding onto it. Right, 449 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: And from what I was reading these paleo burrows, they 450 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: vary greatly in like size and complexity, right. So some 451 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: are just sort of a straight cylinder that that goes 452 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: aways in and uh and then terminates. But there are 453 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: these other ones like you're talking about that have these 454 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: uh more elaborate branching tunnels and and sometimes open up 455 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: into what appeared to be kind of rooms inside. Yeah, yeah, 456 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: and these you know, I guess we could if you know, 457 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to compare these types of constructions to 458 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: human constructions, but you know, it's kind of like thinking about, well, 459 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: think about a newspaper shops. Sometimes it's a freestanding place 460 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: out here on on a street with nothing around it. 461 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: Other times, well, it's it's got this thing next to 462 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: it and this other thing. And it guess it depends 463 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: on just how much uh sloth activity was going on 464 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: in that given spot, like how what how prime this 465 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: location was for the burroughs, and how many generations of 466 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: of of animals were coming back to this place and 467 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: digging these spaces out and redigging. Thank okay. So another 468 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: interesting point of comparison based on the articles I was 469 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: reading versus Martin's take on this, is that the stuff 470 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: I was reading made it seem like it was less 471 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: well agreed on what what exactly had made these tunnels 472 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: and why, and the ground sloths and extinct species of 473 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: armadillos were the main contenders, But it sounds like Martin 474 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: is is way more on the sloths side. Yes, yeah, 475 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: And and he writes when you when you look at 476 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: giant ground sloth and nat of me as well, especially 477 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: um uh Skello, duth ethereum, and gloss ethereum, you find 478 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: that their claw hands have these closely spaced thick fingers 479 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: that make for quote natural shovels when applied against soft rock. Uh. 480 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: They also had, you know, coming back to our example earlier, 481 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: they had the muscle to back it all up. They 482 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: had the four limbs and the shoulders. He compares it 483 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: to the muscles necessary for a galloping power, like a 484 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: galloping horse, except that in this case it's applied to digging, 485 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: so instead of running. This is this is power that's 486 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: clearly meant to dig. Also, their center of gravity was 487 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: more towards the rear of the body, which he indicates 488 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: would be would be more in line with the creature 489 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: that's burrowing. Now, these two species that he ends up 490 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: writing about, they're not they're not quite as big as 491 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: the megathereum. But Martin he compares them to two automobiles. 492 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: So he says that the skeletethereum was the size of 493 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: a Smart fort Woe electric car. These are these kind 494 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: of mini car. I didn't really know what these were called. 495 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: Base um help driving around? Oh yeah, okay, I didn't 496 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: know what these were called either, But yeah, they're there. 497 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: They're like the little little cars the I don't know 498 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: which you could like compact electric cars. You might see it, 499 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 1: you imagine driving around some European city or something, right, right, Uh. 500 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: And then he says that gloss Ethereum was more of 501 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: the size of an average midsize car. That you know, 502 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: we do some some car ads for this show occasionally, 503 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: and I think we need to start asking the advertisers 504 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: to indicate what species of it of extinct ground sloth 505 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: was the size of this vehicle, so that you know, 506 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: listeners will be a little bit more informed about their 507 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: potential auto purchases right now. What Martin doesn't really discuss 508 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: megathereum in his book, it's but it seems like megatherium 509 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: may have burrowed as well. I found some articles that 510 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about the megathereum and and burrowing possibilities. But 511 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: this kind of blew me away. There's at least one 512 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: hypothesis out there that megatherium might have have been hairless, 513 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: like a like a naked mole rat, like a towering 514 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: naked mole rat. Uh uh Yeah. And I included a 515 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: bit of paleo art here um indicating what this might 516 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: have looked like. I found it completely strange and wonderful. 517 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because you shared this with me and well, 518 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: he looks like the engineers from the Alien franchise. Yeah. 519 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: You managed to even find a pose from one of 520 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: the engineers where it's it's it looks like they're they're 521 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: doing the same pose here. Yeah. I wish I could 522 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: have done it though. What would have been perfect is 523 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: if it was the engineer but he had the mask on, 524 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: like when they find the body in the original Alien. Oh. Goodness. Yeah, 525 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: because the this naked giant sloth head, it's fleshy head 526 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: with it's it would have, you know, probably had a 527 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: pretty like fleshy lip situation for uh, for all of 528 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: the delicate consumption of of tree bits. Uh. Yeah, it 529 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: would have. It looked. It looks a lot like that 530 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: mass that they wear in those in those movies. Okay, 531 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: so wait a minute, did you did you credit this 532 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: hypothesis yet? No, I haven't yet, because it's a comment. Okay, 533 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: this is a hypothesis by a paleontologist from Uruguay, Richard A. Farina. 534 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: He wrote a paper in two thousand and two titled Megatherium, 535 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: The Hairless Appearances of the Great Quaternary Sloths, arguing that 536 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: this is in part because modern large this may be 537 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: the case. These arguing in part because modern large mammals 538 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: such as elephants and rhinos, are mostly hairless to prevent 539 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: overheating and hot climates. Okay, so, as far as I'm aware, 540 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: this is not the dominant view of of of these 541 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: ancient ground sloths, but this is one idea. This is 542 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: funny because I came across yet another paper where one 543 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: of the two authors is the same guy, Richard Farina. Uh, 544 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: this one was from nineteen and Proceedings of the Royal 545 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: Society b by Farina and somebody named R. E. Blanco. 546 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: And this one is called Megatherium the Stabber. That's the 547 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: title of the paper. And this one hypothesizes. Now you 548 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: may have already sort of touched on this when when 549 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: talking about the the different ideas about the diets of 550 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: these slots. But here Farina and Blanco are looking at 551 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: characteristics of the remains of of the giant ground sloth 552 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: of of Megatherium and saying maybe it wasn't so herbivorous. 553 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: They write, quote, Megatherium american um had morphological features that 554 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: are better explained by its having had carnivorous habits rather 555 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: than by solely herbivorous ones. Specifically, the question of its 556 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: four arms having been designed for optimizing speed rather than 557 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: strength of extension is addressed. So they argue that the 558 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: anatomy of the foe arms is such that this is 559 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 1: an animal that would have been using vicious attacks with 560 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: its claws rather than just sort of uh, slow slow 561 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: extending actions of like tearing branches out of trees or something. 562 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: And then they also say that the high mechanical advantage 563 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: of the megatherium's biceps would have made it possible for 564 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: the animal to have lifted and carried heavy weights. And 565 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: they're like, well, what if this means it was like 566 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: turning animals over to get at the soft underbelly. I'm 567 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: not sure if anybody agrees with this today, this seems 568 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: this seems possibly out there. But I like the idea 569 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: that Verena has has made a career, at least partially 570 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: on on proposing alternate interpretations of the megatherium. Yeah, I 571 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: think I did look at part of this paper. The 572 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: idea I think is that glyptodonts it would have been 573 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: like turning the glipto dot over and then using the 574 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: claws and the forearms to like dig into the belly 575 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: and start eating the flesh. Get that thing, flip it 576 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: and then stab with the claws. Yeah, and I'm not 577 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: sure entirely if we're talking about a a living glipto 578 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: dot or a dead one. If we're ultimately talking is 579 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: the arguing like the this was the mighty hunter or 580 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: that basically it's eating a lot of plain ants. But 581 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: if it finds a dead glipted on. Yeah, it's gonna 582 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: flip it over and dig in a little bit. They're 583 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: saying predatory behavior. So again, again I want to be 584 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: very clear, I've not found any indication that this is 585 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: a widely accepted interpretation of of megatherium remains, but an 586 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: interesting hypothesis, you know. Yeah, that's funny. All right. So 587 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: coming back to paleo burrows, um one of the big 588 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: remaining questions, and ultimately I guess one of the big 589 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: remaining mysteries is Okay, so if we if we're gonna 590 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: go with the hypothesis that these were dug out by 591 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: giant ground slots, why did they burrow in the ground? 592 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: Why did they seem to come back to the same places, uh, 593 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, year after year, generation after generation and maintain 594 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: these spaces. So Martin gets into this because the whole 595 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: book is about, you know, deals with questions of why 596 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: animals do this, Why is the burrow advantageous, Why has 597 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: it helped you know, why in some cases did it 598 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: enable certain creatures to survive cataclysms on the earth? Well? Well, 599 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: Martin points out that, Okay, well, if we're looking at 600 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: the smaller paleo burrows, we're looking at the work presumed 601 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: to be created by giant armadillos, E thinks they likely 602 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: burrowed for the same reason that modern armadillos do. It's 603 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: just it's safer underground. It allows them to hide somewhere 604 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: that major predators cannot go. And um, and so you know, 605 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: these ancient armadillos, even though there they were bigger than 606 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: what we have today, they would still have to avoid 607 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: things like sabertooth cats and short faced bears. But when 608 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: we look at the great ground slots here, digging tunnels 609 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: so big that they wouldn't have been able to keep 610 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: these predators out, you know, we have a slightly different situation. Uh. 611 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: And we're also dealing with creatures that were they were 612 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, large enough in some cases that they probably 613 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: didn't really have to worry about these predators, not while 614 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: they were healthy at any rate, and you know, not 615 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: when and uh, you know, certainly when you get into 616 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, young being around, that's a different situation. But 617 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, they're not as threatened by these predators, and 618 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: they also are not creating spaces that would adequately protect 619 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: them anyway. Right. Yeah, So I mean these are kind 620 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: of the perks of being megafauna, with only climate change 621 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: and human hunting seeming to be big enough threats to 622 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: to end their reins. According to Martin, the most popular 623 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: current hypothesis here is that the primary reason that ground 624 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: the giant ground sloths um dug these tunnels was ultimately 625 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: to cope with a climate that was drier than today's. 626 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: So the idea here is the cave would have maintained 627 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: more human conditions as well as an average temperature, thus 628 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: helping the animal out no matter what the outside temperature is, 629 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: if it's colder or hotter than what would be comfortable 630 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: for the organism. Now, that is interesting, and it also 631 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: makes me think about how I think it's certainly the 632 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: case that when animals get bigger, they have more heat 633 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: dissipation problems to worry about, right right right, So so that, yeah, 634 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: this hypothesis seems to revolve, you know, roughly around that, 635 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: like how does this this, this, uh, this, this large 636 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: ground sloth maintain appropriate body temperatures? And um, I can 637 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: only guess how this might mash or not mesh with 638 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: Farina's hairless ground slot hypothesis, Like does a hairless ground 639 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: sloth would it need to climb into a burrow. Even more, 640 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: I don't know. This is not something that I think 641 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: experts have weight in on that I have seen. As 642 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: a side note, I will say that I did notice 643 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: it looks like giant ground sloths do feature into some 644 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: video games. I wonder if anyone has been inspired by 645 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: Farina's hypotheses and decided to make them aggressive, and maybe 646 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: they come up and like they if you're in a vehicle, 647 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: they turn your vehicle over and like dig you out 648 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: through the bottom of the vehicle. That ground slots the 649 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: naked stabber. Yeah. Now, as as I mentioned earlier, the 650 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: ground slauce we're talking about, they did overlap with human 651 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: beings for for at least a short time, and it 652 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: seems like human beings probably had played a major role 653 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: in their extinction. Um you know there there there have 654 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: been sites where we find evidence of of butchery taking 655 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: place with the with these giant ground sloths. So ultimately 656 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: human being survived, some arboreal sloth survived by the age 657 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: of the giant ground sloth. Um came to any end. Okay, 658 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: so this is not super related to what we're talking about. 659 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: But did you happen to read that thing about the 660 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: giant ground sloths and the paper arguing that that like 661 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: twenty two of them that were found dead all in 662 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 1: the same place, died in a in a poop related 663 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: mass casualty incident. No I did not. Uh. So the 664 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: paper was published in paleo Geography, Paleoclimatology and Paleoecology in 665 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 1: in by Lindsay at all uh and it was documenting 666 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: a large death assemblage from the from the late place 667 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: to scene in a place called tonke Loma in the 668 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: southwest of of Ecuador. And so it was this place 669 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: that had the remains of at least twenty two different 670 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 1: giant ground sloths, the Ramotherium laurel ardi. And they they 671 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: found all of these animals together in a in a 672 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: deposition pattern that indicated that they basically all died right 673 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: around the same time, gathered around this marshy little pool 674 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: of water that looked like a place that had repeatedly 675 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: been been filled with water and then and then dried 676 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: up and allowed plants to grow, and then filled with 677 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: water again. So maybe one of these sort of intermittent 678 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: watering holes, places that that sometimes have water and sometimes don't. 679 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: And based on a number of queues around this area. 680 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: The authors decided that they thought the most likely interpretation 681 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: of what happened here is that a bunch of giant 682 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: ground slots were hanging out in and around this water, 683 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: using it to cool their bodies and as as a 684 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: watering hole to drink from and to eat the plants 685 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: that were growing around, and that by fouling this water 686 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: source that was ever shrinking with their fecal matter, they 687 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: essentially poop poison to themselves and and many of them 688 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: ended up dying. You know, I don't have is there 689 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: a paleo art to go with this one show? It's 690 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: not very inspiring for the children's books, is it. But 691 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: but they end up writing and and their their modern 692 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: analogies for this. The fountains like like shrinking watering holes 693 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 1: in in the present day savannah environments. They write, quote, 694 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: we suggest that this death event could have resulted from 695 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: drought ind or disease stemming from the contamination of the wallow, 696 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: paralleling situations observed among hippopotamus populations in watering holes on 697 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: the present day African savannah. So sometimes this apparently happens 698 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: like a watering hole in a in a dry area 699 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,959 Speaker 1: is filled with hippos, and they just keep pooping into 700 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: it and drinking it, and obviously that's that's not good 701 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: for them. Well, we can see how you know, we 702 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: can see like changing climates potentially impacting these situations as well. 703 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: So um Martin and his But again, the whole book 704 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: is full of full is full of wonderful explorations of 705 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: of burrowing creatures. Um, you know, and not all of 706 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: which are vertebrates. H for sure. Uh, I recommend picking 707 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,760 Speaker 1: that up if you're at all interested in this topic. 708 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: But he writes that scientists would have once thought that 709 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: creatures as large as these, uh, these ground sloss would 710 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: have would not have burrowed, that the borrowed burrowing creatures 711 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: do not grow this big. But he points out that 712 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: in fact, the largest burrowing animals today are bears, especially 713 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: says if you count snow as a substrate for burrowing, 714 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: which he does. You know, I think we've all seen uh. 715 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: He points out that, you know, we've all seen documentaries 716 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: at this point showing polar bears doing the burrowing in 717 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: the snow, creating a burrow. Uh. Mother Polo polar bear 718 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: anyway for her young and uh and yeah, if you 719 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: if you count snow as a substrate for burrowing, then 720 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: that's that's burrowing, and that's a pretty impressive interesting So 721 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: this comes in a way back to the dinosaur paper 722 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, because this would primarily be a 723 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: dinning behavior for the protection of young while they're well, 724 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: they're still vulnerable. Yeah, now I do have to mention 725 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: as well, quite amusingly and of course very much touching 726 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: on my interest. He also compares the giant ground sloth 727 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: to the grab voids from the movie Trimmers. This was 728 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: pretty fun when I was looking through the index and 729 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: this when I first got the book, I was not Oh, 730 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: he talks about trimmers at some point. Uh, this seems 731 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: like our our kind of scientists. So because the giant 732 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: ground sloths also had multiple snake tongues that would go 733 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: out and get well, no, but but he points out 734 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: like he seems to be a fan of tremmors. But 735 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: he points out that, Okay, you have these fabulous worm 736 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: like creatures that are digging these tunnels, burrowing through the 737 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: ground in this corner of nevada Um. He says, well, well, 738 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: there would probably be some remnant of that. There would 739 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,479 Speaker 1: be some uh, there's some evidence, So the ant grab 740 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: boids in this area, um where the burrowing would have 741 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: taken place. Right, So even if the animal decomposed, it 742 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 1: would leave the trace fossils of its burrows, right. And 743 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, thinking back on on the grab boids, 744 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: it looked like there was some hard parts that might fossilize. 745 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, maybe that's beaks or something. Yeah, the beak. Yeah, 746 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Awaiting his his full paper break doing 747 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,959 Speaker 1: a breakdown of the grab boids. Now, wait a minute. 748 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: Didn't we learn in some of the Deep Trimmor sequels 749 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: that they have multiple life cycle stages and that some 750 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: of them are like flying and junk like running around. 751 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: There's a version of legs. Yeah. Um, I I don't 752 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: know that I ever really watched any of the sequels, 753 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,919 Speaker 1: but I have a lot of love for that first 754 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: Trimmor's film. That was just that's a pretty perfect monster movie. 755 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: Pretty great. So Kevin Bacon is not in the sequels. 756 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: The sequels end up focusing back at some point, or 757 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: he was because they did a TV series. They had 758 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: a lot of I think, you know, I didn't know 759 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: that Sci Fi Channel kind of sequels there, But then 760 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: they did a TV show at some point, and um, 761 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: I feel I feel like Kevin Bacon finally came back. 762 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: The sequels I'm familiar with don't have Bacon. They focus 763 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: more on that guy who's Reba's husband, and the first 764 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: one the like the gun the gun prepper guy. Yeah, 765 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: that played by Michael Gross. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, he's 766 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: the he's the like heavily armed Dale Gribble guy in 767 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,919 Speaker 1: the first movie. Yeah. Yeah, he was in a bunch 768 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: of him and he was fun in that. I don't 769 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: know why, but we we often go around quoting Reba 770 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: McIntyre from the First Timers movie. She she's just got 771 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of punchy delivery. You know, 772 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: he didn't get pantration any with the elephant gun. Yeah, 773 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: Reba's great in that. Yeah. Oh, and I am correct. 774 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: There was a two thousand eighteen TV movie called Tremors 775 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: and it had the return of Kevin Bacon and Fred Wards. 776 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: So there you go. I have not seen it, can't 777 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: vouch for it. I apologize I was wrong. All right, 778 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: Well we're gonna go in close. I'm sorry. I just 779 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: I just googled it and I found that uh sorry. 780 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: On Reba's website. She has a page dedicated to trimmers. 781 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: Oh that's great, so you can go to reba dot 782 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: com slash trimmers. Let's let's also not forget that Victor Wong, 783 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: isn't that and it's also pretty fabulous? Oh yeah, yeah, 784 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: that's right. All right, we're gonna go ahead and close 785 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: it out here, but we'd love to hear from anyone 786 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: out there who has thoughts on these if you have 787 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you have any thoughts on giant ground 788 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: sloths or modern arboreal sloths. Um, everything is is up 789 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: for grabs here. Are there interesting tunnels that you're aware of, 790 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: be they you know, naturally occurring caves and so forth, 791 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: or modern or ancient human constructions that we're trying to 792 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: figure out. We'd love to hear about all of that. 793 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you would like to listen to 794 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: more episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you'll find 795 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,760 Speaker 1: us in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed 796 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: Core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Listener Mail on Monday, 797 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,720 Speaker 1: Artifact on Wednesday, and on Friday. We do Weird How Cinema. 798 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: That's our time to satisfy most serious matters and just 799 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 1: talk about a strange film. Big thanks, as always to 800 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,479 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would 801 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 802 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest topic for the future, 803 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 804 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 805 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 806 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 807 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your 808 00:46:43,000 --> 00:47:00,040 Speaker 1: favorite shows. It