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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is long time and the manager of

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Speaker 1: Kenny Rogers, Ken Craigan, here to tell some Kenny Rogers tales.

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Speaker 1: Jan How you do it? Just great, terrific sadly losing

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Speaker 1: Kenny March. Since that time, there's been so much outpouring

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Speaker 1: of love all of the world for him, it's quite heartening. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet Kenny? You know, I first

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Speaker 1: met Kenny way way way back in the early sixties

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Speaker 1: when I was managing I think probably the Smothers Brothers

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Speaker 1: in those days, and I went to Houston and DJ

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Speaker 1: there and his wife took me to a little jazz

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Speaker 1: club and he was playing bass with a Bobby Doyle trio,

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Speaker 1: and Uh, I was introduced to him. I didn't think

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Speaker 1: anything of it at the time. Number of years went by.

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Speaker 1: He joined the Christie Minstrels, the New Christie Minstrels, and

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Speaker 1: I went on and was producing the Smothers Brothers comedy

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Speaker 1: show and a lawyer kept calling me, called me six

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Speaker 1: straight weeks and pushed me to go see a group

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Speaker 1: at a club called Ledbetters in Westwood here and uh, finally,

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Speaker 1: I was very busy with the show, and but I

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Speaker 1: finally went down there and I just flipped for him.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I brought Tommy Smothers the next night and

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Speaker 1: within a week they were appearing on the Smothers Brothers

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Speaker 1: Comedy Hour. Just because I'm interested in club history, tell

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Speaker 1: me about Ledbetters. Where was it in Westwood? Lad Petters

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Speaker 1: was on Westwood Boulevard And it was owned by the

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Speaker 1: guy who was the head of the New Christie Minstrels.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm blanking on the name now, he's very

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Speaker 1: well known U but but he had he owned that

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Speaker 1: club and the first edition we're just playing there, and

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Speaker 1: they were playing there for a couple of weeks, and

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Speaker 1: I went in there almost every night for a while.

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Speaker 1: They were runned by a gorgeous, gorgeous uh lady, young

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Speaker 1: woman by the name of Thelma Camacho, and then other

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Speaker 1: people in it. Kenny was playing stand up bass. He

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Speaker 1: was quite a bit older than the other members. They

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Speaker 1: had all left the New Christie Minstrels because Mike Settle,

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Speaker 1: who was a writer, he couldn't get the Christie Minstrels

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Speaker 1: to do any of his songs, so he formed this

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Speaker 1: group from the Christie Minstrels, and they started singing songs

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Speaker 1: that Mike had written. So you go to see them,

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Speaker 1: and he get Tommy to come. How long after that

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Speaker 1: till they get on the telecast probably a week We

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Speaker 1: well we were a live show on you know, on

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Speaker 1: Sunday nights. I mean well, when I say live, we taped.

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Speaker 1: We taped and then went out. But uh, but it

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Speaker 1: was kind of amazing. I mean literally a week later

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Speaker 1: they were on the show. Everybody fell for them, and

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Speaker 1: uh and more than one of us, uh fell for Thelma.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think she started dating Mason Williams, who

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Speaker 1: was the writer on the show at the time. Of

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Speaker 1: course we had classical gas later, right, Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: quite quite an era. Did they already have just dropped in?

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Speaker 1: You know? I don't know. I think that came along later.

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Speaker 1: They didn't. Mike didn't write it. Mike was with the

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Speaker 1: group for the first year and a half or two,

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Speaker 1: and then he left because his wife gave him an ultimatum.

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Speaker 1: She said, either you know, you stay at home and

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Speaker 1: we have a relationship here you're always on the road,

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Speaker 1: or we don't have a marriage and I'm leaving. So

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Speaker 1: I ran into him about a year or two later

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Speaker 1: on in l A. And I said, Mike, so, how

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Speaker 1: did it work out? I know, you know, he said, well,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I we went for therapy, went for

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Speaker 1: couples therapy. He said. I said, well, so did that work?

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Speaker 1: He said, no, no, it didn't work. But boy did

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Speaker 1: I get great ideas for songs, but he was left

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Speaker 1: out of the first editions. Out of the first edition

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Speaker 1: by that point, and the song how did you become

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Speaker 1: the manager? You know? I started managing virtually right away.

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Speaker 1: I had other clients. I had other clients at the time,

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Speaker 1: although the Smothers were certainly the major one, and and

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Speaker 1: I took them on, and they didn't have any real

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Speaker 1: hits at that point. Their first album out wasn't out yet.

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Speaker 1: They had they have a previous manager that you uh not,

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Speaker 1: that took over phone because they had just come it

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Speaker 1: hadn't been that long since they came out of the

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Speaker 1: Christie Minstrels, and and so I I got to manage

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Speaker 1: them right from the beginning. I remember one of the

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Speaker 1: first things I booked for them was a little club

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Speaker 1: in Boston and we went there and we would have

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Speaker 1: like six or eight people was in a basement in

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Speaker 1: Boston and we would have maybe six to eight people

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Speaker 1: in the audience at night. And one of those nights

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Speaker 1: that one of the smother shows that they taped was on.

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Speaker 1: So I brought a TV set and put it on

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Speaker 1: a stool on stage and the group came down into

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Speaker 1: the audience, which doubled the audience by the way, and

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Speaker 1: we all watched the show on the stage. It was

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Speaker 1: very funny. But uh, but they you know, they didn't

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Speaker 1: they started having a few hits. Throw a little bit

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Speaker 1: slower than that. Okay, you have the act, you signed them,

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Speaker 1: you put them on the Smothers Brothers show in that

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Speaker 1: era of the sixties mid sixties. Did that immediately mean

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Speaker 1: they had traction or did you were starting at the Actually, uh,

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Speaker 1: it was you know, remember there were three networks we had.

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Speaker 1: Um you know, Bonanza had been the number one show

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Speaker 1: in America and we've been they've been shows have been

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Speaker 1: for eight years. Trying to knock it off. CBS had

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Speaker 1: tried everything and nothing worked, Absolutely nothing worked. So they

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Speaker 1: threw our show on, figuring nothing was going to happen

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Speaker 1: with it, and we exploded. And you know it was

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Speaker 1: Vietnam and it was protesting, and it was young people,

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Speaker 1: and we were all young and you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I was wearing beads and piece meals and long hair

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Speaker 1: in those days, and and we related to that young

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Speaker 1: audience out there. And all of a sudden the show

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Speaker 1: became a big hit, and we literally knocked Bonanza out

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Speaker 1: of number one and went to the number one show

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Speaker 1: in the country every week and uh, and we had

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Speaker 1: just great pieces on that show. I we were talking

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Speaker 1: any other night about UH. We had a bit called

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Speaker 1: have a Little Tea with Goldie and Um. She would

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Speaker 1: come on each night and go and it was all

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Speaker 1: drug references. But the network, despite the fact they censored

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Speaker 1: the show highly, they never got the drug references. She

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Speaker 1: opened her bit, uh with UM. She'd say, I want

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Speaker 1: to agreet all you women the way I always do high,

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Speaker 1: you know, and oh, I appreciate all of you sending

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Speaker 1: me her old roaches that you've gathered around the house.

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Speaker 1: Stuff like that. They would we get away with murder

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Speaker 1: on it. We even put on the Smother show, which

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Speaker 1: was getting from about the first end of the first

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Speaker 1: couple of months, it started getting censored, or at least

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Speaker 1: but a censored. The CBS guys would take the script

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Speaker 1: and look at it and say, you can't say you

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Speaker 1: can't say this. We would put four letter words in

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Speaker 1: the script that we knew they were going to immediately

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Speaker 1: knock out. And then they missed the next joke which

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Speaker 1: which was a double, which had a double and dundre

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Speaker 1: to it, and was kind of was what we really

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Speaker 1: wanted to get across. It was like a fun game

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Speaker 1: all the time up until the end. So you have this, uh,

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Speaker 1: the Kenny Rogers and the first additional that was just

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Speaker 1: called the first edition on the Smothers Brothers. Do they

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Speaker 1: have a record deal at that point? Yes, they did

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Speaker 1: at Warner Brothers. Uh. Terry Williams, one of the member's

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Speaker 1: mother was working at Warner Brothers and and they got

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Speaker 1: a deal at Warner Brothers. A producer and later went

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Speaker 1: on to be very successful and they Mike Post came

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Speaker 1: in produced some terrific songs for them, and songs started

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Speaker 1: happening when they had that deal. That was before you

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Speaker 1: got involved. Uh, yes, they had some kind of deal.

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Speaker 1: I didn't make the deal at Warner Brothers. I remember

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Speaker 1: we got the first album and they weren't happy with

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Speaker 1: the cover and a lot of other stuff. It was

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Speaker 1: almost you know, like the movie Spinal Tap, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know when the group gets the album and hates it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know that just dropped in certainly was the

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Speaker 1: biggest break we got in those days, just just to

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Speaker 1: go back. So Mike Post, who ultimately this is the

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Speaker 1: same guy, became famous for writing all the TV themes. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the themes for television shows, and it's what degree

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Speaker 1: was an integral part of the success of I think

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Speaker 1: he was a major success in those early days with

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Speaker 1: the hits you know, Ruby, Don't Take Your Left to

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Speaker 1: Town and and all of the various hits that came

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Speaker 1: out of the first edition. Uh, in that early early

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Speaker 1: period where Mike Post and and I do think it's

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Speaker 1: funny you mentioned just dropped in. I think just dropped

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Speaker 1: in to see what condition my condition is in is

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Speaker 1: a perfect song for today. I love that record. First

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Speaker 1: was aware of Kenny Rogers, but of course everybody then

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Speaker 1: thought they were some kind of you know, super hip group,

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Speaker 1: and they were as straight as an arrow, you know,

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Speaker 1: in those days, they didn't touch anything, and that was

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Speaker 1: a big hit on the on the East Coast. How

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Speaker 1: did you make it a hit. You know, it's a

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Speaker 1: good question. I think that record really made the group

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Speaker 1: a hit more than we made that record hit. And

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Speaker 1: many times over the years, I've worked radio very very hard. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think the only thing we did basically to try

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Speaker 1: and support records was travel and and and do shows

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Speaker 1: all over the country and visit radio stations, and do

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Speaker 1: you know, it was all radio at that point, UM

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Speaker 1: and UM and I had there's a kind of a

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Speaker 1: wild part of the story that you get a kick

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Speaker 1: out of. When I first came out of Harvard Business

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Speaker 1: School in the in nineteen sixty uh, I was managing

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Speaker 1: a group called the Lime Lighters, and I took their

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Speaker 1: record into a radio station, w b Z in Boston

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Speaker 1: and the music director and the sort of librarian music

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Speaker 1: director was Joe Smith. So by the time we got

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Speaker 1: to the Warner Brothers deal, he you know, he and

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Speaker 1: Mo Austin were the gold Dust Twins or the co

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Speaker 1: the co heads of Warner Brothers Records. So I had

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Speaker 1: a relationship there which was great. In fact, at one

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Speaker 1: point I had five acts on their label that We're his.

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Speaker 1: So uh just dropped in becomes a success and what's

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Speaker 1: the next move? Well, the group starts playing concerts everywhere

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Speaker 1: and doing very well for a few years, and one

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Speaker 1: song after another, Ruben James I mentioned Ruby Don't Take

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Speaker 1: Your Love to Town. The big change came about almost

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Speaker 1: two years into it, or a year into the group

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Speaker 1: um when Uh we had one record out that was

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Speaker 1: doing okay on the charts and they wanted to put

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Speaker 1: out it might have been Ruby, Uh and Kenny was

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Speaker 1: lead lead vocalist. I don't remember the exact record, and

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Speaker 1: I had a meeting at Warner Brothers with Moe and

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Speaker 1: Joe and everybody there and decided that the best way

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Speaker 1: to put the second record out was called Kenny Rodgers

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Speaker 1: in the first edition for the second record, and that

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Speaker 1: stuck because of that record went on to be a

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Speaker 1: huge hit. So it was either Ruby or just dropped in.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those, and the rest of the group,

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Speaker 1: you know, they accepted it, although it wasn't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they didn't fight among each other ever really, but but

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that Terry Williams and some of the others

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Speaker 1: in the group felt a little bad at first that

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Speaker 1: suddenly Kenny was the front guy, because you know, he

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Speaker 1: was kind of he was the bass player and an

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Speaker 1: older guy in the group, the oldest by by a

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Speaker 1: long shot, trying by the way to look hip. He

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Speaker 1: was in dark glasses and letting his hair grow and

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Speaker 1: doing everything he could to look as him as possible.

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Speaker 1: So how long did it run with the first edition?

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Speaker 1: It runs to about nineteen seventy five, And I'll never forget.

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Speaker 1: The last engagement was at Magic Mountain, very depressing for

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Speaker 1: a group that had been drawing big audiences all over

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Speaker 1: the world. Actually this is an amusement park in southern California. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and that was they broke up right after that.

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Speaker 1: H Kenny was at that point sixty five million dollars

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Speaker 1: in debt, had gotten a divorce, was or at least

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Speaker 1: it was in the process of it, and it was

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Speaker 1: pretty downcast. However, he uh, you know, he had met

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Speaker 1: Mary Ann, who was who became his wife. Ultimately he

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Speaker 1: met her in Nashville doing he aw and he spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time in Nashville, and a manager from there,

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Speaker 1: sort of a manager guy offered him, uh, what he

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Speaker 1: offered him was seven fifty thousand dollars to come down

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Speaker 1: there and let him manage it. H Kenny never saw

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Speaker 1: but a fraction of that money, a very tiny bit

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Speaker 1: of it, and it didn't That didn't work out, So

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Speaker 1: he'd ultimately moved on from you. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the first edition. Yeah, he left. I was kind of broke,

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Speaker 1: and I went and joined Jerry Weintrop's office, and Kenny,

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Speaker 1: in the meantime went to Nashville. So did the band

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Speaker 1: blame You've, because usually the manager gets blamed when the

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Speaker 1: band is not doing that well. I've I've rarely had that.

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Speaker 1: I hate this, I mean not hate to say it.

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Speaker 1: You lose artists because one of two reasons. You lose

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Speaker 1: them because you didn't do a very good job and

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Speaker 1: they're disgruntled and unhappy, or you lose him because you

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Speaker 1: did a very good job and they think I don't

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Speaker 1: need to be paying him all that money. I lost

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Speaker 1: TRICI yearwo over that, over over how much I was making.

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Speaker 1: She was making several times maybe ten times what I was,

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Speaker 1: but she was I was making a commission of maybe

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand at that point, almost a million. And you

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Speaker 1: take a look at that. She was now with Garth,

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Speaker 1: who felt he could pretty much advisor and and she

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Speaker 1: just came to me one day and said, you're making

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Speaker 1: almost as much money as I am, but she was

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Speaker 1: looking at her net versus my gross and uh. And

255
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Speaker 1: we parted over that, and I had done I think

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Speaker 1: a pretty spectacular job for I've rarely lost anybody. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Kenny I managed for thirty three years. Well, staying with Kenny,

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Speaker 1: he goes to Nashville, it doesn't work out. How do

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Speaker 1: the two of you look back up? I signed it

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Speaker 1: with Jerry Windrab. I'm being handling Gosh the carpenters and

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Speaker 1: Harry Chapin and and doing some work for John Denver,

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Speaker 1: all Jerry's clients at a phenomenal company. And I get

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Speaker 1: a call from Kenny from Nashville and he's left this

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Speaker 1: guy and he suddenly wants my management back. I'm at Jerry's.

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Speaker 1: I go to Jerry and Jerry says, forget it, he's

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Speaker 1: washed up, he's nothing that's going to happen with him.

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Speaker 1: Don't sign him. But I signed him over Jerry's objection,

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Speaker 1: which lady really backfires on Jerry because Kenny, who never

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Speaker 1: forgets that Jerry didn't want him. Uh, And I don't

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Speaker 1: quite I doubt if I told him that, but somehow

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Speaker 1: he found that out. Anyway, I signed him and I

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Speaker 1: put him out on the road with the carpet with

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Speaker 1: the captain and to Nil and it's really interesting what

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Speaker 1: happens because they give him ten fifteen feet in front

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Speaker 1: of the curtain to perform. Now, remember he's been part

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Speaker 1: of a group that's been very big at one point,

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Speaker 1: and he calls me and he says, I'm so discouraged.

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Speaker 1: You know, I go out there. They really want the

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Speaker 1: headliner that you know, I'm stout there as a solo artist.

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Speaker 1: I just think I'm gonna quit this. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna stop. And I spend you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how much time him an hour or something, really pumping

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Speaker 1: him up and talking to him and keeping him going.

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Speaker 1: And he stays in it. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: it does is tremendously influenced him later on when he

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Speaker 1: takes artists such as Garth Brooks on the road, and

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Speaker 1: Garth actually talked about this recently on a tribute to Kenny.

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Speaker 1: When Kenny takes artists on the road, he gives him

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Speaker 1: the full stage, everything I want to work with, all

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Speaker 1: the lighting, everything. He does everything he can to make

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Speaker 1: them feel as much at home at as much a

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Speaker 1: star as he possibly can. And I think it came

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Speaker 1: from the way he felt with Captain and Taniel. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that Captain Teneo really ever thought anything about it.

295
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Speaker 1: They probably didn't realize how it affected him, but it

296
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Speaker 1: but hey, then you know, he runs into Larry Butler

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Speaker 1: in Nashville in the pancake pantry and they he goes

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Speaker 1: to his office later and they make a deal for

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Speaker 1: a record. Okay, tell us to Larry. Tell us about

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Speaker 1: Larry Butler. Larry Butler is a producer who did Johnny Cash,

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Speaker 1: a whole slew of top artists, um uh, and he

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00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: was a very very prolific producer. And they record sixteen

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Speaker 1: songs together and they send them to me. I'm now

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Speaker 1: working at Jerry wide Drops office, and he has a

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Speaker 1: whole promotion department of his own music guys that go

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00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 1: out and promote the records with radio. And we all

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Speaker 1: sit in the conference room, on the floor of the

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Speaker 1: conference room listening to these sixteen songs, and we get

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Speaker 1: to one called Lucille, and we really crack up. We're

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Speaker 1: literally rolling around the floor going this is crazy, this

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Speaker 1: is and I said, this is either you know, a

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Speaker 1: dud as a novelty song or it's the biggest hit

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Speaker 1: he could have, and sure enough it turns out and

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Speaker 1: by the way, it was the name of his mother

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00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 1: when it's and what he didn't write it, and his

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Speaker 1: mother got upset because you know, it's uh, it's about

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Speaker 1: leaving her husband and and the crop and the with

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Speaker 1: the four kids and the crop in the field, you know,

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Speaker 1: and stuff. And he says, why did you do that

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Speaker 1: about me? This isn't my life. I never did that.

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Speaker 1: She had eight kids. But anyway, it goes on to

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Speaker 1: be a number one record, he wins, he wins the

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Speaker 1: song of the Year on the c m A Awards.

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Speaker 1: Um it becomes the real song that kicked him off. However,

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Speaker 1: I will say I tried to get the record company

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Speaker 1: to release it first off of those sixteen songs he'd recorded,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't. They released one or two others before

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Speaker 1: they went to Lucille. They all just felt that Lucille

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Speaker 1: was was, you know, not going to make it, that

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Speaker 1: it was too unusual and different a song. But boy,

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Speaker 1: it resonated and it it kicked the career into high gear.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, Gambler coming along later kicked it higher.

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Speaker 1: But and a lot of other things we did, which

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Speaker 1: we can talk about. But but Lucille, Okay, so Lucille,

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Speaker 1: now what record label is this? This becomes Liberty. I

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00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: believe we're on at that point part of the E

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00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: M I M. Yeah, part of E M I. Because

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00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 1: then Jim Maza came in and headed Capital, which owned

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00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,439
Speaker 1: E M I, or at bought M E E M

340
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 1: I and so it um. But we start having hits

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00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: then and and one after the other. But the big

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00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 1: big moment for Kenny really was that Larry Butler had

343
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Speaker 1: recorded The Gambler, a John Schlitz song. Don was in

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Speaker 1: twenty three years old and had written a bunch of

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Speaker 1: songs that didn't go anywhere, and one of his friends

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00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 1: told him, Gee, you really should develop that one about

347
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Speaker 1: the Gambler, and he did, and Cash recorded it but

348
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 1: didn't like it that well, and so Larry, feeling Cash

349
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Speaker 1: wasn't going to put it out, recorded it with Kenny.

350
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Speaker 1: After Kenny made it an enormous hit, it was Catch

351
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 1: wasn't very happy that it hadn't come out. But although

352
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash was a great guy to him, well, uh,

353
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: but you know, the Gambler really established Kenny and and

354
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 1: it did it for a bunch of reasons. One, he

355
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: looked the part. He fitted it. It felt, you know,

356
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: he felt like he was singing about himself almost and

357
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 1: h and we got an album covered done by a

358
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Speaker 1: fabulous photographer named Reed Miles, who h was sort of

359
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: the Norman Rockwell of the photo photographers. He would bring

360
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 1: in actors and put them around on artist and he

361
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: brought it. You know, The Gambler was based like in

362
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: the eight hundreds of the way Reid saw it, and

363
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 1: he put it Kenny as the dealer in the midst

364
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 1: of this cast of characters. And that album cover was

365
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: just sensationally good. And the song, of course, I mean,

366
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Speaker 1: you've got to know when to hold him. You've got

367
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: to know when to fold him. You gotta know when

368
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: to walk away, you gotta know when to run resonated

369
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: even to this day, people use it all the time,

370
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 1: even to this day. Uh and uh. And then of

371
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: course we went on to make these huge movies. So

372
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Speaker 1: tell us how the movies came about. Well, that's a

373
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 1: fun story. Kenny had gotten pretty big with all the

374
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Speaker 1: other stuff, including The Gambler, and he was now hosting

375
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: the Country Music Awards, the CMA Awards, from Nashville and

376
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Speaker 1: at rehearsal the day before the awards, two of the

377
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: top guys from CBS who happened to buy movies of

378
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 1: the week for the network, one being Fred Rappaport blanked

379
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: on the name of the other guy. They were sitting

380
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: in the green room with me while Kenny was out rehearsing,

381
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Speaker 1: and I had a poster of the cover of The Gambler.

382
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: Now you have to understand, I've never made a movie before.

383
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: Kenny had acted in one in some small part. Uh,

384
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: we had no experience, really, And I am really rolled

385
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: this poster, this big, huge poster like a movie poster,

386
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: and said we want to make this as a movie.

387
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: And the two guys sitting on the couch looked at

388
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: me and went sold, wouldn't you love to be able

389
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: to do that today? I've got We've got I've got

390
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 1: two projects out right now, and you have to go

391
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: through all kinds of hoops to get them made. But

392
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: but that it did take six months more to negotiate

393
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: a deal. But by that fall we were we were

394
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: out there making that movie in October and it went

395
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: on in November literally and uh went through the roof.

396
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: It became the highest rated movie in history on television,

397
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: highest rated movie four television Movie of the Week was

398
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 1: a two hour version. But as a result of that,

399
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: as a result of that one success where we got

400
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: like a fifty two share in a thirty five rating,

401
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: you know, unbelievable numbers nowadays except for Super Bowls and

402
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: other things like that. When we got these huge numbers,

403
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: we CBS got us to make four mini series after that,

404
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: and we did so, we did a total of eighteen

405
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: hours of Gamblers and uh it, you know, was just

406
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: and the second one was bigger than the first one

407
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: and it was a mini series. So I mean that

408
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: really established Kenny, you know, much like Dolly got established

409
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: with nine to five on a higher level, Kenny got

410
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: established with his films before well before nine to five,

411
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: Kenny was very established and one of the few country

412
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: stars at that time as far as I know, to

413
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: ever take that kind of leap into that huge success.

414
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: Certainly nobody else had that kind of success. And I

415
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun with that boy. Every promotional

416
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: tool in my toolbook toolbox came out for promoting the Gambler.

417
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: Give us, give us some examples. Well, you know, we

418
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: were on the cover of TV Guy. We were and

419
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: we had we did posters that were ever we treated

420
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: it like a feature film. Uh you know, I have

421
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: that whole belief, which I think I've been on your

422
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: show and talked about before about the magic of three's.

423
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: I had didn't realize that it was a real technique

424
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: at that point, but I would surround anything with so

425
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: many different promotional things, from radio calls and promotion contests, advertising,

426
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: get the network to spend a lot of money on

427
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: the advertising. Piece of work closely with them on all

428
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: of those aspects. I even, by the way, on all

429
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: my films and all my TV shows, I've always shot

430
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: the stills. There's been a network film you know photographer

431
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: there too. But I know exactly what I want to

432
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: promote with. So I would go out and I love

433
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: taking pictures, and I would take pictures through the whole time,

434
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: give them back to the Smothers Brothers show. I took

435
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: put pictures every week, printed up the best ones and

436
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: sent them to the people who appeared on our show

437
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: in a leather bound book. Um, you know, I just

438
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: it was just part of my part of what I did.

439
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: I always felt of the job was making the film

440
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: still feel his way is promoting it. So how did

441
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: Canny handle all this success? That's the great thing about

442
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: Kenny rodgers um Interestingly, he would never get too high

443
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: and never get too low. He was the most even

444
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: guy that I ever knew. Changed a little later in life,

445
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: but not that much, but until to the last couple

446
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: of years. But we talked about that later. But in fact,

447
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: Kenny had this ability to just stay sort of level.

448
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: You know. I think one of the reasons that Gambler

449
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: is so successful is much like Kenny himself, the character

450
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: doesn't take himself too seriously. There's a lot of fun

451
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: in that in the movies, and my favorite film always

452
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: was Butch and Sundance, So I I think maybe although

453
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: I didn't write the script, I think I pushed for

454
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: that kind of humor to go through it along with

455
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the whatever, the threat wash my face.

456
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: I always think the best films are ones that combine

457
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: something you can laugh at or be amused by with

458
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: with the tension of an ongoing you know thriller. Okay,

459
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: So at this level of success, are you worried about overexposure? Well,

460
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: I got a lot of flak for that kind of

461
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: thing I did, uh, And yet I just didn't worry

462
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: about it as long as we kept changing. That's the

463
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: one thing I've always done in my career is find

464
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: what is the real person, what their interests are, and

465
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: find ways to make those work. I remember living in

466
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: john when she got pregnant. I remember telling her, do

467
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: an album of U of lullabies, and after the baby

468
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: is born, you can go on TV and talk about

469
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: how you put your kid together to sleep with the lullabies,

470
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: and you've got an album of him so other people

471
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: can do it. And she said, by god, you're the

472
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: only guy I know made getting pregnant a career event.

473
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: But I would do that with Kenny. He was a

474
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: phenomenal photographer, I mean world class, and you know we

475
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: we put his pictures up in New York and in

476
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: uh film galleries, I mean in this you know, art galleries,

477
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: and Time magazine covered it and we did. Uh. He

478
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: was a terrific tennis player and ended up actually getting

479
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: ranked as a doubles player, traveled with a pro who

480
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: later became one of his best friends, and anything he

481
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: did and I and I saw an interview the other

482
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: day with him about that. He said The one thing

483
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: I seemed to be able to do is uh, and

484
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: is focus totally. Uh. It's a combination of focus and

485
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: being addictive, you know, if photography was it. He had

486
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: a dark room and he was in there. In fact,

487
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: he had vocal trouble as a result of the used

488
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: working so much in a dark room with the chemicals. Uh,

489
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: and he had to stop doing that. And of course

490
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: later on everything became digital. But each whatever. His passion

491
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: was golf. I mean, you know, he bought a place

492
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: in Athens, Georgia, uh, and he built it was about

493
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: acres and he built a golf course that looked like

494
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: Augusta with lakes and bridges and everything. And he had

495
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: pros come down there and play it. And not only

496
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: did they come and play it, but he had a

497
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: thing that would pick could dig up trees or create

498
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: soundtraps while you were at lunch, so where he'd see

499
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: where they were. Yeah, I know, it's typical where he'd

500
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: see where everybody was hitting when you came back out

501
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: after lunch to play. And this was a lot of

502
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: times with pros. He he had moved things around on

503
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: the course. It wasn't the same course you just played

504
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: in the morning. Uh he just you know, anything he did,

505
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: he did it classy, first rate. He built houses, he

506
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: did all the planning and decoration. He you know, he

507
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: nailed up stuff himself and worked on the on the

508
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: walls and unbelievable. He was completely dedicated to whatever his

509
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: passion was at that moment in time. And by the way,

510
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: if it was a woman, he was completely dedicated there.

511
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: You could would be on the set saying quick making

512
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: calls to Marianne and you know, and we got to

513
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: get you back to work. I mean literally, whatever he

514
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: was focused on, he was truly focused well staying with

515
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: the women. He was married multiple times, five times. Why

516
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: do you think that was Well, the first one was

517
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: one of those. Had to get married. He felt he

518
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: got a woman pregnant while he was in high school,

519
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: I believe, and he felt the honorable thing he was

520
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: living in Houston, Texas was to marry her, and he

521
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: did and that didn't last long. But they had a

522
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: kid and and he didn't see that kid for like

523
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: eighteen years because they after they broke up and uh,

524
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: finally finally got back together. It was quite a reunion.

525
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: In the meantime, he got married again. And had Kenny Jr.

526
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: A very funny, clever young man. Uh and Uh. And

527
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: then when that marriage broke up, Um he met Mary

528
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: Anne and they had what had been that one of

529
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: his longest marriages at that point. She was still even

530
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: to this day. I mean, she loved Kenny greatly even

531
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: after they divorced, and she worried about him, and she,

532
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: like a year ago she called me and said, he's

533
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: kind of down because he doesn't work. Now we've got

534
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: to do something for his birthday. I mean, this is

535
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: his ex wife. She was wonderful about it. And then

536
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: he eventually met um a much younger woman, Wanda, Uh, gorgeous,

537
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: beautiful twin, and they had twins. And now there are

538
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: sons that I think around thirteen or fourteen years old

539
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: UM with Wanda, and that's one of the shames of

540
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: Kenny passing away. But they're certainly given getting to see

541
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: I mean, there have been at least five beautes to

542
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: Kenny in the last two weeks. Um. The sons are

543
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: at least going to have this great legacy to know

544
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: what a sensational person their father was. So why do

545
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: you think do you have a laundering eye or why

546
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: did these relationships always end? You know, it's very hard

547
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: to keep these relationships going when you're on the road

548
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: full time. I've learned a lot about the road because

549
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: I've toured speaking an awful lot, and it's almost it's

550
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: a performance what I do. And uh, and you go

551
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: back to your hotel room alone and it's lonely and such.

552
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: And for the first several years with mary Anne, she

553
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: traveled with him, and then they had Christopher, their son,

554
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: and she stayed home. And when she stayed home, Um,

555
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: he eventually I think had a relationship with one of

556
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: the women that was touring with him. Uh, and it

557
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: kind of broke up their marriage. Uh, But but they

558
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: stayed extremely close, you know, with a son that they

559
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: both cared a great deal about. Um. Kenny was I

560
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: have to say, I mean, Kenny was one of the

561
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: most generous human beings I've ever known in every way,

562
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: shape or form. And he maintained relationship Marianne was married

563
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: when he knew or to a fellow named Michael true Killis,

564
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: and he felt after Marianne left Michael to Mary Kenny,

565
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: he felt obligated and they became very good friends. He

566
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: even had Michael produce a movie. He just was that

567
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: kind of guy. The band and the crew was with

568
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: him for forty or fifty years, the same group. Uh

569
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: he he. You know, he was just one of those

570
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: people that cared about taking care of others and and

571
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: I think we have to remember that part of him.

572
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: The other part of him, of course, is to remember

573
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: the humor. I love one story. After things were slowing down,

574
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: he called me one day and he said, you know, Ken,

575
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 1: I feel like we're two old salmon's swimming up the

576
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: stream against the water and we're having a very tough

577
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: time of it. And I said, no, no, no, Kenny.

578
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, my theory is, it's like a small plane.

579
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: You know, if you get up to one mile, it

580
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: has a glade range of ten miles. So even if

581
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: you turn off the engine, you're going to glide for

582
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: ten miles. But you get up to five miles, and

583
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: now you turn off the engine, you glide for fifty miles,

584
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: or if you're ten miles, you've glide for a hundred.

585
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: I said, Kenny. The plane you're on is up so

586
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: high that even after you die, you're gonna last You're

587
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: gonna be around for a long That plane isn't going

588
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: to hit the ground for a long time after that,

589
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: and there was silence on the other end of the phone,

590
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: and he said to me, you know, Ken, I think

591
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm planning on living a lot longer than you think.

592
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: There's so many moment He was that kind of guy,

593
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: and he and you know when he and Dolly. I

594
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: have so many great stories of Kenny with Dolly. And

595
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: when Kenny and Dolly first got together. I was managing

596
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: the bags at that point, and Barry Gibb wrote an

597
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: album for Kenny and they were working. But Barry's way

598
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: of working. Kenny recorded the entire Gambler album in three days.

599
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: That's the way they worked in Nashville. You went in,

600
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: you cut four or five songs that night, you went

601
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: back home, you went there the next night, you cut

602
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: some more, and eventually you had an album. And you know,

603
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: in those days, you could only put ten songs or

604
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: eleven on an album. He had an album. Barry was taken,

605
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: you know, weeks to do one song and they had

606
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: been working on Islands in the stream to the point

607
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: where Kenny hated it. He just said, I'm so bored

608
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 1: with this song and I don't like it. That much

609
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: and everything. And I think it was Barry said we've

610
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 1: got to get somebody. Why don't we get Dolly Parton?

611
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: And I was sitting in the studio and they looked

612
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: at me and said, get Dolly. Well. I knew Sandy Gallant,

613
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: who managed Dolly very well, and I knew Dolly. We

614
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: we had we had never done anything with her. But

615
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: I picked up the phone called Sandy and with an

616
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: hour Dolly was in the studio recording with Kenny. But

617
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: what really miss and I think it's one of the

618
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: great things I didn't do in my life, was I

619
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: didn't have film what was going on in that studio

620
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: because those two were cracking everybody up every two minutes.

621
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: I mean, there's practically nobody funnier than Dolly, improvolving, impressing,

622
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: I can't say it, um and um. And they just

623
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: were completely cracking us up. And it was the beginning

624
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 1: of this phenomenal relationship. And I can give you great

625
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: example of Dolly in her humor that I think you

626
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: really enjoy. I took Kenny and Dolly. I took actually

627
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: Lionel to Australia, flew back on a twenty four hour

628
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: turnaround and took Kenny and Dolly down there. Both acts

629
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: were touring Australia and when we got when we arrived

630
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: with Kenny and Dolly, there was a press conference and

631
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: was I think or maybe two in that period of time. Anyway,

632
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: it was when the Americ's Cup, the sailing uh contest

633
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: was going on in Australia and Uh the new the

634
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: media at this press conference said Ms. Parton, what do

635
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: you think of the America's Cup? And she stood out,

636
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: stood up, thrust out her chest and said, but I

637
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: am America's Cups. Well, the whole place cracked up. And

638
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: here's the thing. The next day. The next day the

639
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: head like front page, the huge picture of Dolly with

640
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: her chest threw us out and the line I am

641
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: America's Cups huge headline down below in the story. Kenny

642
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: got one little, tiny paragraph and he was a bigger

643
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: deal there. We we had to her there before and

644
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: been big and Dolly got all the media. I mean,

645
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: she did that to us over and over and over.

646
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 1: She's one of the funniest ladies and fortunately still still

647
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: doing it, you know, and and and entertaining people to

648
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: this a I think they're going to do another nine

649
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: to five movie, by the way, she and so how

650
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: do you end up getting? Uh? The Gibbs involved were

651
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: very GiB involved with Kenny. You know. Somehow we ended

652
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: up taking them on. I don't know who contacted us

653
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: about that, but they were brought to me. You know,

654
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties, I had eighteen months where I

655
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: had forty eight percent of the top ten records in

656
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: America were my artists, people like Kim Carnes, Kenny Rogers,

657
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: Linel Ritchie, Lindsey Buckingham, the Jay Giles Band, uh and

658
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: uh and so over an eighteen month period, I had

659
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: of the top ten records in Billboard, so number one.

660
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: That put me on the map. Then I did We

661
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: Are the World, which Kenny of course participated in Evaly

662
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: and hands crossed America somewhere in that period. After We

663
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: Are the World, Uh, the Bigs came to us. You know,

664
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: things have quiet and down quite a bit for them.

665
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: I flew down to Florida and met with him. We

666
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: took them on. We never got a lot going, but

667
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: they ended up Uh, we ended up having some fun

668
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: times with them and uh, and they ended up recording

669
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: with Kenny and other things. How did that come together.

670
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: How did they get hooked up with Kenny? Because I

671
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: was representing him and Kenny was. You know, he had

672
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: gotten Lionel to do Lady for him, which was wonderful

673
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: and one of his biggest help. That happened because Jim

674
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: Mazy was running the record company, running Capitol and then

675
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: and Live and overseeing Liberty h Kenny went to him

676
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: because Kenny had number one records on the pop on

677
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: the pop charts as well as the country charts, but

678
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: the only other chart in those days was the R

679
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: and B chart. So Kenny said to Jim, I want

680
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: to get a number one record on the R and

681
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: bea chart And Jim said, well, there's only one guy

682
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: who ought to write at He's a group called the

683
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: Commodore is in its Lionel Ritchie and either Kenny was

684
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: appearing in Vegas or Lionel was. I've heard the story

685
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: both ways. Uh. But they got together in Las Vegas

686
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: and Lionel, as he tells the story, um, he had

687
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: a song he called Baby and but in typical of Lionel,

688
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: he did this when he wrote We Are the World,

689
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: he only had that word and music for the song.

690
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: So Kenny said, I want to get a song, but

691
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Kenny had been talking. The way Lionel tells the story,

692
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: he says, Kenny had been constantly talking about what a

693
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: great lady mary Anne was, and I heard the story.

694
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: Marianne was along with him, but he kept talking about Marianne.

695
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: And finally he said, Lionel, what do you have in

696
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: the way of a song? And Lionel, thinking on his feet,

697
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: said I've got this song Lady, which is of course Baby,

698
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: that he had already written the music for, but add

699
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: no lyrics, and he sang baby, Da Da Da Da

700
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: da dad and played it. Kenny said, where's the rest

701
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: of it? He said, don't worry. When we get ready accorded,

702
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: I'll have it. And Kenny said, okay, we'll do it,

703
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: and they went in the studio. It did much like

704
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: Barry's recording of Kenny. It drove Kenny a little nuts

705
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: because Lionel was used to even taking more time. I mean,

706
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: Kenny said, you know, with Lionel, you'd record a single note.

707
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: If he didn't like the way the note sounded, you

708
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: do the note over and over. So it was quite

709
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: an experience. But Lady was a phenomenal record for Kenny

710
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: and Lionel does it in the show. Now. So, having

711
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: all this success with the Gambler, with Islands in the

712
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: Stream and now with Leady, how do you keep it going?

713
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: You keep it going by diversifying, doing different things, finding

714
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: you ways, you know, making all of a sudden, getting

715
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot of coverages of him as a photographer and

716
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: so on. And it started to slow down as we

717
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: got into the nineties. You know, he wasn't having I

718
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: think seven was his last number one album on the

719
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: country charts and uh and or even maybe it was

720
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: a single at that point. And we tried. We we

721
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: did get uh a few things through the nineties, but

722
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: mostly we started touring a lot around the world. I

723
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: was amazed how much following he had, not just in

724
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: English making countries that how much success he had, uh,

725
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: but in the English countries, you know, New Zealand where

726
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: he was like a superstar, Australia, uh, South Africa, which

727
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: we got criticized for for playing uh like a lot

728
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: of other artists who signed did it naively as we

729
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: were um. Uh. We did a lot of touring, you know,

730
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: we did the Muppets in England, we did uh. You

731
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: just you you constantly looked for angles and new things.

732
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: I never got involved in the writing of the music,

733
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: but if you give me the song, I figured out

734
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: a way. I mean, by the time the late nineties

735
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: we had we we suddenly had new new success. He

736
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: did a song called the Greatest and it was about

737
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: a little boy in a baseball bat and a baseball

738
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: and the kid throws the ball up in the air

739
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: and swings once and misses, and it doesn't discourage him,

740
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: and he picks the ball up, and he throws it

741
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: up again, and he swings and misses, and finally he

742
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: takes the ball for the third time and he throws

743
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: it up in the air and he swings and he misses,

744
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: and his mom calls him in for dinner, and as

745
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: he's walking into dinner, he says, I never knew I

746
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: was the greatest pitcher on earth anyway. Uh, it's a Kenny.

747
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: That's the gist of the song. It's more elaborate than that.

748
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: What I did was I took Kenny to ballparks to

749
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: open the season in all the different ballparks. The song

750
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: came out in April or the late at late March

751
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: early April, and and different teams had different opening days

752
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: or sometimes we meant more than one park in a day.

753
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: And he did not that he didn't like doing the

754
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: national anthem, but he do America the Beautiful or something,

755
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: and he do the song. And we launched it by

756
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: going around and touring ballparks and also by making hundreds

757
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: of calls to radio. Both what he did with radio

758
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: and I literally became I was very very I had

759
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: been president of the Country Music Association and then of

760
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: the Academy of Country Music, which is based out here

761
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: in l A. And I made hundreds of radio calls

762
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: and I did that not just on Kenny. I did

763
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: it on my other artists as well. But there weren't

764
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: managers calling radio, and radio was still the thing then.

765
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: We hadn't gotten to the period of streaming and getting

766
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: your music from Spotif the Greatest becomes a big success,

767
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: how do you capitalize out? Pretty good, but it doesn't

768
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: go top ten, it does it becomes a success, it

769
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: stops somewhere in the teens, you know, fifteen or sixteen

770
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: something like that, my recollection, But it's still a hit

771
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: for him, and the biggest hit he's had in a

772
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: number of years. And we follow it with a song

773
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: he found called by Me a Rose, and that song

774
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: UH really hits home, particularly with women. And so I'll

775
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: remember what happened with it again. You give me the song,

776
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: I'll find a way to promote it. I was driving home.

777
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: I somehow knew Mary Ann Williamson, who was producing the

778
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: and I may get the name run because there's two

779
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: ladies like that, the one who was producing the show. Um,

780
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: oh God, what touched by an Angel? And uh? And

781
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: I from my car. I played the song for her

782
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: and her staff in a meeting in Salt Lake where

783
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: they were where they were doing the filming. And I

784
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: played it on the air and they loved it, and

785
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: and I convinced them to do an episode based around

786
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: by Me a Rose and Kenny guests start on it.

787
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: And the day after that aired, we sold tens of

788
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: thousands of singles and the record became a number one

789
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: hit for him. Was the one of the last big

790
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: hits he had. Of course, he also had a pretty

791
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: good hit not that long ago in the in the

792
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: two thousand, I don't know thirteen or whenever it was,

793
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: he and Dolly had a hit with the Old Friends,

794
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: a song that again that Don Schlitz wrote for him.

795
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: So was Kenny good or bad with money? I wouldn't

796
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: say good. He liked to spend it. He was good

797
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: if you want to look at the things he acquired,

798
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: from office buildings to beach houses, to the ranch in

799
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Georgia to UH to UH two or three different airplanes,

800
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: a helicopter. UM. I remember flying Tommy Lessort at one

801
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: time on Kenny's helicopter from from Atlanta, Georgia to Philadelphia

802
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: where he had to be and he was forever our

803
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: buddy and our friend for doing that. He had to

804
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: get there. Um. But Kenny knew how to spend it

805
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: in wonderful ways. He had great taste. UH. He once

806
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: had an airplane size of a seven twenty seven that

807
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: had a round bed in the as you walked in,

808
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: and there was a glass enclosed area that you could

809
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: put curtains around, and there was a bed in it,

810
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: and then you could see like twenty people behind that

811
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: in the in the two compartments behind it. He went

812
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: all the way up to that, and then in the

813
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: latter years he worked his way all the way back

814
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: down to the touring bus. By the way, he bought

815
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: a touring bus for his mom that was funny. You

816
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: know his mom, she he said, what do you want?

817
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: He she said, I want a bus so I can

818
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: go on tour with you. So we bought her a bus.

819
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: Us went on the bus everywhere. It was great. But he,

820
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, he knew how to spend it at the

821
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: same time, he also knew how to make it. But

822
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: it made him work. I mean, as a manager, that's

823
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: a dream. Because he's working like crazy. You don't have

824
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: to push him to get out there. Uh And and

825
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: money was never has never been my motivator anyway. But

826
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: but from a standpoint of an easy client, here was

827
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,479
Speaker 1: one who basically to support his lifestyle, had to work

828
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: hard and uh and never never grouched about it. He

829
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: loved it. In fact, if I look at one thing,

830
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: I believe Lionel and I talked about this. The night

831
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: that I heard Kenny had died. I called Lionel at

832
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: midnight and we talked for quite a while. Um, you know,

833
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: I think that Kenny loved from a team being on

834
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 1: the road. You know, when you're out there, you get

835
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: that adulation every night, and and when it suddenly stops,

836
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: when you suddenly know that your health is such that

837
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: you just can't go out anymore. It's got to be

838
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: a tremendous blow. And Uh. In fact, Lionel and I

839
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: talked about it. I said, Lionel, you've got to be

840
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: prepared for that someday. He said, don't worry. I've I've

841
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: thought about it. UM. But he's still going very strong. UM.

842
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: And I think that the last two years after he

843
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: was forced to um to stop touring, after a lifetime

844
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: of that kind of adulation and and reaffirmation and fun,

845
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: just the camaraderie of being out with the band, um,

846
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: all the wonderful things he did on the road, taking

847
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: cameras along huge he took an enormous camera that had

848
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: to be carried by a couple of people in set

849
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: up to do pictures that were like you know, Richard

850
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: avedon types of things, and he was just quite amazing

851
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: at that. And then to have it all kind of

852
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: come stop, you know, crashing to a stop. Uh. Lionel

853
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: and I kind of agreed that that was the start

854
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: of the downhill part for Kenny and his hill and

855
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: then he, you know, his health went on him. So

856
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: you're in the office, would can he call you? Hey,

857
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: I gotta work? Uh. It was pretty mutual. One of

858
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: the things I loved about Kenny Rodgers is you could

859
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: go in there with a list I would take. Uh.

860
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: In those days, I wrote everything out. You know, I'm

861
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: a calligrapher, so I wrote it out kind of fancy,

862
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: and I wrote out a list, numbered list of things

863
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: that I needed to get him to approve or agree to,

864
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: or things that needed to be discussed. And it could

865
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: be two pages long, legal sucks, but Kenny would go

866
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: through them at lightning speed. Yeah, I'll do this. No, No,

867
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. Oh what would Frank

868
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: Sinatra do? Would Frank Sinatra do this? I don't think so. No,

869
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. Uh. That was one

870
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: of his I heard that so often I can't believe it. Um. Anyway,

871
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: we would go down the list. If he said he

872
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: was going to do it, you could count on. You

873
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: could absolutely count that if Kenny Rodgers agree to come

874
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: to your thing or do this, or sing on something

875
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,919
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, whatever it was, he would be there.

876
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: He never would, never would back out, in which many

877
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: artists do. Uh. You know, they want to say yes

878
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: to everybody, but then they really turned to the manager

879
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: and say get me out of this. That's the more

880
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: common thing that happens all the time. And so he

881
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: just did that. He was that kind of guy. And

882
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, I the one thing that hadn't been talked

883
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: about enough, not not just by us, but by all

884
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: these tributes to him and everything, is how generous he was.

885
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: When I was managing Harry Chapin, and Harry was raising

886
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: money for hunger and homeless issues in America and for

887
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: a group called Long Island Cares UH and for a

888
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: theater in in Long on Long Island and stuff. Kenny

889
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: Lionel would raise money by going to your backyard and

890
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: performing for a thousand dollars and put to give it

891
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: to the charity, even though he made a lot more

892
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: than that in concert, but not huge, even though he

893
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: draw it drew very well. Uh, I said Lionel, I

894
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: think it is Harry Chapin. I'm hope I get it

895
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: right here. So Harry UH needed money, and Kenny did

896
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: a concert in which he handed at the end of

897
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: the concert, he handed Harry Chapin a hundred and eighty

898
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: thousand dollar check. And Harry Chapin was a guy that

899
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,439
Speaker 1: you know, was always very loquacious and I said, I'd

900
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: never seen Harry ever where he couldn't get a word out.

901
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: He took that check, he looked at it. It would

902
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: have taken him more than a year, maybe two, to

903
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: raise that money for a chair with the charities he supported.

904
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: And Kenny was handing him a hundred and eighty thousand

905
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: dollars from one night. And it drove home a point

906
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: that I made with Harry about how the bigger he got,

907
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: the more good he could do, and we had to

908
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: spend more time concentrating on the career. And that was

909
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: really happening when just right when Harry got killed on

910
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: the Long Island Expressway. But the minute Harry went down,

911
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: Kenny picked up that torch. He created the Hunger Media Awards,

912
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: gave put a million dollars into an account and gave

913
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand away every year to the media for

914
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: covering the issues of hunger and homelessness. We did a

915
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: big thing every year at the u N. It was

916
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: just typical of Kenny. One time, after I mean his

917
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: first got on my way to Lonald Richie's house to

918
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: get him to work on the song, which turned out

919
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: to be where Are the World? I picked up the phone,

920
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 1: and the first person I called was Kenny Rogers, and

921
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: he said, count me in whatever you're doing. Typical Okay, So,

922
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: if you had a list of two pages legal pads,

923
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: what percentage would he say yes to? You know, I

924
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: don't remember the exact percentage, but it was generally yes

925
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: more than no, maybe sixty forty. But there was this

926
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: agreement that we had. We made an agreement somewhere along

927
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: the line that if one of us felt passionately at something,

928
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: doing it or not doing it, whatever, as long as

929
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: we were really really passionate about it, the other person

930
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: would go along with that decision. But he added, in

931
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: typical Kenny Rogers fashion, but Ken, when I go along

932
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: with what you want, you'd better be right. And were

933
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,439
Speaker 1: you ever wrong, sure, what would say? Well? I part

934
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: of what I teach when I teach classes or speak

935
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: to corporations is how to get caught telling the truth.

936
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: And when I was wrong or when I made a mistake,

937
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: which was more often than you know, that I would

938
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: wish I would immediately admit it because what I was

939
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: doing was building trust. I wanted to get caught when

940
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 1: I did something that wasn't in my most my best interest,

941
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: to admit because admitting it would strengthen my relationship with him.

942
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: And I've taught that technique to people that you you

943
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: tell the truth as a valuable tool. So sure, mean

944
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: I made plenty of mistakes. I mean I'm not perfect

945
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: by any means and and something, but most I will

946
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: say this because Kenny could rise the occasion. This is

947
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: another story about Kenny. Basically, Kenny Rodgers had the ability

948
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: like Michael Jordan's two, raise his game when the game

949
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: was on the line and score. He wanted the ball

950
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: and he knew he could score, and he took his

951
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: game up to do that. And um. And the great

952
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: example of that is actually it was Kenny's uh fiftieth

953
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: birthday and I live now right across from the golf

954
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: course at Mountain Gate, and we arranged Kenny was an

955
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: avid golfer, and we arranged for Kenny to play with

956
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: Steve Win believe it or not, O. J. Simpson pre

957
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: uh the Trial and Murder days Uh O J. Simpson,

958
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: Steve Win and the golf pro We're playing a foursome

959
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: with Kenny. I hid around the eighteenth hole a hundred

960
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: and fifty people behind rocks and trees and everything to

961
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: jump out when he made the putt and yelled surprised.

962
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: Except unfortunately they got my message wrong, and when he

963
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: was about eighteen feet off the green, they jumped out

964
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: everybody and yelled surprise. Now he calmly chipped to within

965
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: about nine ft and sunk the putt. I looked at

966
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: him and said, you got to join the tour. This

967
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: kind of pressure really works. You know, it's so funny.

968
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: I mean he uh, he could raise whatever it was.

969
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: You listened to his duets when he had somebody's terrific

970
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: singing with him, like Sheena Easton or or Dottie West

971
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 1: who he did drunks, and they're certainly with Dolly Parton.

972
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: I saw her on an interview the other night say

973
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: he was just warming up with all those other women

974
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: waiting to get to me. And and uh when he

975
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: would raise his he loved singing duets with with talented singers, uh,

976
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: because he would then need to lift his game to

977
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: match them, in his view, and he would do it,

978
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: and he would do it every time. So getting success

979
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 1: with Kenny Rogers was certainly more frequent than not because

980
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: whatever was needed to make him successful at that moment

981
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: in time, he raised his game to deliver it. And

982
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: then Uh, there's a lot of people, like professional athletes,

983
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, they're calm and then all of a sudden,

984
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: the lights come on and they turn it on. Was

985
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: that what it was like for him live? Or was

986
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: he what was he like just before he went on stage? Well,

987
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: I remember in Las Vegas one time where he was.

988
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: It was one of his first appearances at the Riviera.

989
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: He was headlining, and we were in the dressing room

990
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: and forty minutes thirty minutes before he ordered a dinner

991
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: and they delivered the dinner ten minutes before he went

992
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: on stage, and he calmly sat there eating it, got up,

993
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 1: maybe burped a little, and walked on stage and did

994
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: a sensational show. There was no nerves you ever saw ever.

995
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: I mean I had artists who were afraid to go

996
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: on stage. I had artists, Uh god. I remember backstage

997
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: in in Japan when I was touring with Lionel Ritchie

998
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: and we were and Barry Manila was on the program.

999
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: You weren't allowed to look at Barry as he went

1000
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: from the dressing room to the stage. Nobody could make

1001
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: eye contact or even look there. I don't know how

1002
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: often that happened, but that uh, you know, there were

1003
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: times where I saw incredible nervousness in people and um

1004
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: before they went on stage, and then they got on stage,

1005
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: and they used that kind of energy to do something,

1006
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, terrific. Uh. Kenny was just the opposite. He

1007
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: was the same guy on stage off stage, you know. He.

1008
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean I had artists I managed who would never

1009
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: go anywhere because they really couldn't stand to be mobbed.

1010
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: Kenny Rodgers would go everywhere, but he wouldn't be mobbed

1011
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: because he just acted like one of the people that

1012
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: was there, you know. And he didn't like signing autographs. Uh,

1013
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: but he would he would post for pictures. Uh he uh,

1014
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: you know he he loved his fans. He knew how

1015
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: important they were to him. But we went to movie theaters,

1016
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: we went. He never restricted his life by being a celebrity,

1017
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: and that's pretty rare. So if you would go out

1018
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: shopping or go to the movie theater, would he bring security.

1019
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: He had one guy that was with him for many,

1020
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: many many years. Uh, whether he you know, maybe he hadn't. Yeah,

1021
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: one guy that I remember. I don't even think he

1022
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: was carrying anything. If there was real. You know at

1023
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: the times were a little different through some of the

1024
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: period of time. But he had once one guy who

1025
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: was kind of a a close associate friend, but was

1026
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: really had a police background and bodyguard kind of thing.

1027
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: I never paid any attention to whether he was carrying

1028
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: a gun or something like that. We never certainly needed it.

1029
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: We did have I do remember. The wildest things that

1030
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: I remember with Kenny was scary was walking. He was

1031
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: walking out of the out of going off the stage

1032
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: and walking through the audience into the tunnel, you know,

1033
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: to go to the dressing room, and a pregnant woman

1034
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: jumped down from from above him, you know, just as

1035
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: you're going under that overhang. She she it wasn't that

1036
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: high compared to where she were. He was just going

1037
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: under it, but jumped on him, just came from up there,

1038
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: and she was just enthusiasm. I don't think she fell,

1039
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: I think she jumped. Uh. That was probably one of

1040
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: the more scary moments. He used to do. A fun

1041
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: thing he used to he got a a guitar case

1042
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: or a large equipment case and had it built in

1043
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: such a way that he could sit in it, and

1044
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: he had he performed in the round for many years

1045
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: because you could get more people in the theater and

1046
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: he could walk around and he could connect with more people.

1047
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: And he oh, he started that. He was one of

1048
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: the first. He put his band in the middle and

1049
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: then it was like a donut and he walked around

1050
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: on the donut. Well. He arranged after a while to

1051
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: be pushed in this equipment card before the as the show,

1052
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: before the show was actually starting, and he was in

1053
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: the equipment card, and then he would come out of

1054
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: the equipment card and get on stage, come up on

1055
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: stage in a cloud of smoke, so you didn't see him,

1056
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, in the center of the stage,

1057
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,959
Speaker 1: there he was appearing. The smoke clear, and he was there,

1058
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: and you never knew how he got out there. It

1059
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: was great. He loves to do stuff like that, you know.

1060
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean that he was very adventurous, very adventurous. Did

1061
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: he ever push it too far? I don't think. I

1062
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: don't think so much in that area, I you know, um,

1063
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: I think what he pushed too far at times were

1064
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,439
Speaker 1: just the elaborate way he had lived. He had grown

1065
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: up in total poverty. Kenny was a part one of

1066
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: eight kids living in a in a project in Houston

1067
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: when they had a home. Sometimes they were living in Crockett,

1068
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: Texas and in family homes and stuff. But eight of

1069
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: eight kids in one room is the way he described it.

1070
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: And some older than him, some younger and uh, and

1071
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: they were very poor. His father Kenny's I think a

1072
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: lot of Kenny's humor came from his father. His father

1073
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: worked as a carpenter. But what I was told by

1074
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: Kenny as the most money his father ever made was

1075
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: sixty dollars and he made it during the war in

1076
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: one week working at the at the docks as a carpenter.

1077
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: And and his father was also an alcoholic, a friendly,

1078
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: funny alcoholic, but an alcoholic, so he spent a lot

1079
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: of the money on alcohol, and he didn't make much.

1080
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: So it made it very, very tough on that family.

1081
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: Lucio was was the backbone of that family and pretty incredible.

1082
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: Did his father lived to see his success some of it? Yes,

1083
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: so he did. He did live live to it. And

1084
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: was he appreciative, yes, But Kenny would tell all kinds

1085
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: of funny stories how he would come home and his

1086
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: father wouldn't want to ask him for money directly, but

1087
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: he'd go you know, if a man had a saw,

1088
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, an electric saw, he could build these these

1089
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,919
Speaker 1: little bird houses and sell them. You know, it would

1090
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: be a great thing to have a really nice electric saw.

1091
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Stories like that. My my favorite story. Kenny Kenny had

1092
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: a brother named Roy Rogers, and Roy played hookey from

1093
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: school one day and he came home and he all

1094
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he saw his father coming up the

1095
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: front stare stairway in the middle of the day. So

1096
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: he went. Roy pulled up into an opening into the attic,

1097
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: and when he got up there, he found all these

1098
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: bottles hidden there. Suddenly, Roy, looking for a bottle of liquor,

1099
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: comes in, opens the thing and reaches up in there

1100
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: and Roy then the sun says, I can't remember now

1101
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 1: his name for a minute, but let's say ed. He says, ed,

1102
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: this is your conscience. Don't touch that music, that that liquor.

1103
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: He got in a lot of trouble the kid did

1104
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: for that. But uh, but it was pretty funny. Well,

1105
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: speaking of valcohol, anyone who's been on the road knows

1106
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: that it's very tough to have the odulation of twenty

1107
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: people in an arena, then come back to your hotel

1108
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: room and be with the same people week after week.

1109
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: A lot of people cope with that via alcohol or drugs.

1110
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: How did Kenny do on those things? For most of

1111
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: his life, he really never touched alcohol. I think his

1112
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: father being an alcoholic was somewhat of a lesson to him. Um.

1113
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: For most of his life he was really really stayed

1114
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: away from alcohol or drugs. Uh. There were some drugs

1115
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: done in the group a minor retally, just smoking a

1116
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: little grass or something, but not for Kenny. He didn't

1117
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: touch any of that for many, many, many years, and

1118
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: at least till his fifties and then really I think

1119
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: at one point he had some problems with medication because

1120
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: he had back and knee operations and stuff, and so

1121
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: he probably had for a while. I think from what

1122
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: I understand, I wasn't really handling him during that period.

1123
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: But in the latter part of life, U he had

1124
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: to kind of get off of opioids or whatever it

1125
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: was that he was using for pain. But he just

1126
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: generally that wasn't his personality, you know, he just didn't

1127
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: need it and he didn't want to use it, and

1128
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't part of his life. And he never drank.

1129
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't think as far as I know, unless there

1130
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: was something in latter years, because I haven't didn't. I

1131
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: represent him for thirty three years, but that ended in

1132
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and one. And um, and although we stayed

1133
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,439
Speaker 1: close and talked on the phone, I never really heard

1134
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: anything that would make me think he was ever drinking,

1135
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: and he probably never did. Okay, what about were you

1136
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: involved when he got involved with Kenny Rogers Roasters? The

1137
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: chicken was that after? Oh? Yeah, yeah, that was John Y.

1138
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: Brown was the governor of Kentucky. And in fact he

1139
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: was married to Miss America or something right, Yeah, And

1140
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: and that's how they knew him because Mary Ann knew

1141
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: uh what was her name, Phyllis George. Yeah, and uh,

1142
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: Mary Anne and Phillis George were very friendly. And we

1143
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: ended up getting invited to the Kentucky Derby and to

1144
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: stay at the Governor's mansion and the other guests that

1145
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: the Governor's mansion included, uh, Walter Cronkite. I ended up

1146
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: on the tennis court playing tennis with Kenny Rogers, Walter

1147
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: Cronkite and Kenny's pro guy named Kelly Ankerman. Uh, And

1148
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: I thought, I can't believe it. I'm here, I am

1149
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: facing across the net Walter Cronk I but uh, but

1150
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: John Y and Kenny became very good friends. And John

1151
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: Y had this idea of creating this Roasters and he

1152
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: did um and Kenny got a part of it. The

1153
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: problem really was to make those things successful you have

1154
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: to spend a fortune in advertising, and they never really

1155
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: did that. It was going to take a very significant

1156
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: amount of money. They had some success us with it.

1157
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: It was a very good product. There was one in Nashville,

1158
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: uh that I used to go to occasionally. Uh uh,

1159
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: And and Kenny went to a lot of the openings.

1160
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: He would and he would go whenever he was in

1161
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: a town where there was one. He just show up

1162
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 1: and surprise everybody. And it was a lot of fun

1163
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: for a while. He never made anything off of it,

1164
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: as I recalled, uh. And it finally ended up closing.

1165
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: John Y after he was governor, I think moved to Florida.

1166
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: They ran it out of Florida. But but you know,

1167
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: it became a joke in a funny way. I mean, uh.

1168
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: Seinfeld did a series where that Roasters opens up one

1169
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: of his shows. One of the episodes, Roasters opens up

1170
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 1: down below his apartment and the smell of the chicken

1171
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: is went wafting up into the apartment and it's driving

1172
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: them crazy, and they're trying to get rid of the roasters.

1173
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: And we had a lot of fun with that one. Now,

1174
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: let's make Kenny a little more three dimensional. You said

1175
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: a lot of positive things, but everyone's got their positive

1176
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 1: and negatives. What can you say to flesh amount as

1177
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: a person? Was he short tempered? Could he tolerate stupidity

1178
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,919
Speaker 1: known as nice all the time? No? But I will

1179
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: say he came about as close to that as anybody

1180
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: you could imagine. He rarely got upset at anything. I

1181
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 1: think over the thirty, over our thirty three years, the

1182
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: only time he ever yelled at me or had a

1183
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: problem was back in the after, just after we'd done

1184
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 1: the first or set Gambler in the and the movie

1185
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: Cow to the County, and we're about to do the

1186
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: next Gambler. And he got a lawyer in town, a

1187
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: big time lawyer represented studio heads and heads of agencies

1188
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't remember his name. Fortunately he's no

1189
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: longer with us anyway. Uh. He got this lawyer and

1190
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: my lawyer, a wonderful guy named Tom Rowan, who I've

1191
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: had forever, said to me, Ken, the first thing he's

1192
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 1: gonna do is get rid of you. And sure enough,

1193
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 1: I get a call from Kenny Rodgers and he's furious

1194
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: that I have taken advantage of him by being his

1195
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: partner on things like The Gambler, which, by the way,

1196
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: I created and sold. I didn't write the script, but

1197
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: I created the idea, sold the movie, produced every frame

1198
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: of it, every aspect of it. And and the lawyer

1199
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: has convinced him that because we're fifty fifty partners on

1200
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: that I've taken huge advantage of him. And so now

1201
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: he's yelling at me that you know that deal can't

1202
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 1: go on ahead and and everything, and I'm calming him down.

1203
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: I don't remember another time in thirty three years. I

1204
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 1: mean I when I finally split with him, it was

1205
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: we were a three way partnership with Jim Aza, the

1206
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: record guy, and it was Jim who called me. I

1207
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: didn't even talk to Kenny. Kenny literally was honored three

1208
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: months later and apologize from stage at the Academy of

1209
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: Country Music Awards on television sort of said, Ken Craigan

1210
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: has been responsible for every great thing that happened to me.

1211
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: In the last thirty three years. Um, you know, and

1212
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: that kind of made everything up for me. Um and

1213
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: uh so I really have a hard time, uh I

1214
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: can you know. I've certainly had artists who were handfuls

1215
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: and uh but by the way, not for long. Because

1216
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,000
Speaker 1: my theory is, if they're wrecking your life, move on,

1217
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: If they're dominating your life, move on. I was never

1218
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,560
Speaker 1: ready and willing to let somebody make my life miserable

1219
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: or or you know, I want to. In fact, at

1220
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 1: one point I had a company called Ken Craigan and Friends.

1221
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: It's probably the best way to think about my I'm

1222
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: talking more about Kenny. Any other stories anecdotes. Do you

1223
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: remember he was almost too good to be true for

1224
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,480
Speaker 1: a long time. He did have had He had problems

1225
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 1: with marriages early on. One of the early things that

1226
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: happened in the early beginning of the seventies was he

1227
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: was married to a lady who and they fought a

1228
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: lot and it was a very very up and down relationship.

1229
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: And the other members of the first edition came to

1230
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 1: me and said, you've got to talk to Kenny and

1231
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: tell him that if he can't keep his personal stuff

1232
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: away from the group, we're gonna have to let him

1233
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: out of the group, and I did, and ultimately it

1234
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 1: led to him getting a divorce. I don't know that

1235
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: that was the motivation for the divorce because they were

1236
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: having their problems, but truthfully, you never it wasn't that

1237
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: he was hiding that side. I mean, I this is

1238
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: a guy in that thirty three years, maybe less in

1239
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: the latter years, but in those thirty three years we

1240
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:58,759
Speaker 1: were so intimately involved day and night, show after show

1241
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: on the road, off the road, you know, he was.

1242
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: He became such a mind. I mean I had other

1243
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: big clients, a lot of Richie and others, but Kenny

1244
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: was the number one client. And uh, I really had

1245
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: everything to do with him constantly. So you're talking about

1246
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the great ideas you came up with.

1247
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: You remember any of the ideas that Kenny came up

1248
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: with or was it really more direction from you? Well,

1249
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: that's an interesting thought. I'm guaranteed he came up with

1250
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: plenty because he was always very creative. Um, but that's

1251
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna have to I'm gonna have to

1252
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: really look at that, and that'd be sure he would

1253
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: take credit for ideas I came up with But I

1254
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 1: hope I rarely took credit for ideas he came up with.

1255
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: And he and he was that kind of you know person,

1256
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: and he was extremely creative. Um, I don't know. I

1257
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: think we didn't. We did tend to divide it up.

1258
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: Where his creativity was it was most evident was in

1259
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 1: both selecting the music the show itself. I was rarely

1260
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, the way he the idea of the of

1261
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: the circle, the performing in the circle, of coming on

1262
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:14,879
Speaker 1: as a surprise of uh, getting the best lightering director

1263
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: and the imaginable and doing things that nobody else had

1264
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: done in that area. Uh So in the performance area,

1265
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 1: in the recording area, finding the right songs, uh, you know,

1266
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,799
Speaker 1: tying up with duet partners. I can't ever remember bringing

1267
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: him a duet partner. I would run with the product

1268
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: and come up with ways to creative or promote what

1269
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: whatever he was doing. But all of that stuff, the

1270
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: wonderful songs, the wonderful duets, the wonderful live performances, those

1271
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: were those were his his doing, really quite completely. I

1272
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: just took and found ways to get those out to

1273
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 1: the widest possible audience. So are there any stories, uh,

1274
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: Kenny tales that we having covered. There's probably a hundred

1275
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: of him. I should uh, I should think about you know. Um,

1276
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: I was just gonna look at a list that I made.

1277
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: There there were you know, there were many moments in

1278
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,839
Speaker 1: times that that we had fun stuff that happened. Opening

1279
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: the first Gambler, Um, I was able to get Lynda Evans,

1280
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: who was huge at that point. I guess it was

1281
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: a dynasty that she was on. And and um, Lynda

1282
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,520
Speaker 1: Evans and Bruce box Lightner who was also very successful

1283
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: in them as his co stars. And we get out

1284
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 1: on the very first day shooting in Arizona and it's

1285
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: a hundred and eight degrees and the first scene is

1286
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: her being hanged. Uh. You know, she's being hanged and

1287
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 1: Kenny comes through and rescues her. Um, that's the first

1288
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:58,440
Speaker 1: thing we shot. And at the and what she found immediately.

1289
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: This is really kind of a good story about Kenny

1290
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,719
Speaker 1: because what Kenny would do was he couldn't get into

1291
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: the character completely until he was in the costume and

1292
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:12,520
Speaker 1: had to deliver the lines. But he also would constantly

1293
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: I want to change the lines. In fact, it got

1294
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: so the director and he Dick Lowry was our young director,

1295
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: and he would be sometimes sitting for an hour or

1296
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 1: two on the set reworking the script. And the funny

1297
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,759
Speaker 1: part of it was he often would change a change

1298
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: and change and and end up it would end him

1299
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: calling all the way around to where it really originally.

1300
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: Was so much so that the producers on one of

1301
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,839
Speaker 1: our UH specials that we did, gave him a Christmas

1302
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,440
Speaker 1: card and it said, you know, it said Mary Christmas,

1303
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: and Mary was crossed out and said Happy Christmas, and

1304
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: Happy was crossed out and said have a wonderful Christmas.

1305
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 1: And that was crossed out on you know, for twenty

1306
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: different ones, and finally the last one now not crossed

1307
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: out was Mary Christmas. That was typical of Kenny and scripts.

1308
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: I can remember literally typing pages while they were on

1309
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: the set making changes, and I went up. I always

1310
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: did whatever was necessary. It was somewhere in Arizona, and

1311
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 1: I had a typewriter and an old beat up building

1312
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 1: and was typing the script and having a runner run

1313
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: them to the set. On the words. I was getting

1314
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: that they were now doing well in any event. With

1315
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: Lynda Evans, that first day, she had a lady that

1316
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: worked with her, and that woman came up to me

1317
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 1: and said, you've got to come to Linda's trailer. She's, uh,

1318
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: she's crying and she's not sure she can do this movie.

1319
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: And I went to the trailer and she said, you

1320
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: know on the Moon when I was doing my series.

1321
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 1: When I'm doing the series, you get the script and

1322
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: you don't change a single word you were You learn

1323
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,719
Speaker 1: it exactly as it is, and they would not allow

1324
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: you to change a word. Here Kenny's changing everything on

1325
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: the set and I can't work that way. And I

1326
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: a litta, but that's kind of the way he works.

1327
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 1: And she said, well, I don't think I can do it,

1328
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: And I said, just hanging there for a few days

1329
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 1: and see, by the end of the movie she loved

1330
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 1: it so much. She was now raving to me about

1331
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 1: how much fun it was to work where you could

1332
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: manipulate the script every day. That drove crew and dollars.

1333
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: You know how much it was costing us to do

1334
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 1: stuff nuts. But it was one of his traits that

1335
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: uh he and he always told me, when I get

1336
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 1: in the outfit and when I get on the set,

1337
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 1: that's when I really feel like doing it another time.

1338
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,799
Speaker 1: By the way, one of my one of my favorite

1339
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: things that he ever did was on the movie Count

1340
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: of the County. He plays a preacher who's womanizing and

1341
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: doing other things and he's not a good guy. He

1342
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: is a good guy, but he's doing he's you know,

1343
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: off the path of righteousness here. So he has to

1344
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: give a sermon resigning from the pulpit and um, and

1345
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,640
Speaker 1: Kenny decided to go home that night and rewrite or

1346
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,720
Speaker 1: totally right the seram in and he came in the

1347
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: next day and delivered it. And it's, I think, on

1348
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,759
Speaker 1: everything he's ever done, the best single piece of acting

1349
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 1: he ever did, because it came from the heart. It

1350
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: probably spoke to some of the things that were him

1351
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:18,759
Speaker 1: in real life and it was just this incredibly moving

1352
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: confessional speech and uh and it ended up, I thought

1353
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: being the best acting I've ever seen him do. Well, Ken,

1354
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: this has been wonderful. Thanks for illuminating Kenny. How hearing

1355
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: all these stories? Do you think he'll be remembering? It's

1356
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: a big it's a big loss, but he lives on

1357
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,600
Speaker 1: in an incredible way. Right now? Do you know that?

1358
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 1: By the way, just to end up and wrap up

1359
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: and say do you know that? In the week after

1360
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: Kenny died. His Greatest Hits album went to number one

1361
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 1: on the country charts, first time since nine. His The

1362
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,719
Speaker 1: Gambler became the number one downloaded song in the country.

1363
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 1: Oh in the album. The album became number six on

1364
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,600
Speaker 1: the Pop Truck on the Total Billboard one and The

1365
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: Bumbler became number one downloaded and Islands in the Stream

1366
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 1: number two. But people love Kenny. We love you Ken.

1367
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this till next time. This is Bob

1368
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: leftsas thank you.