1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of My 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. I had a pretty massive failure about five 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: or six years ago, and it was actually on Tartinos. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: We were taking a pizza and we were going to 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: move it from being a circle pizza to a rectangle pizza. 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: The reasons we did that our consumer research said, hey, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: this is a good idea. Our supply chain absolutely needed 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: to do that. My gun initially was like, I don't know, 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: this feels like it's such a big change. I kind 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: of allowed myself to go down that path because when 11 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: we did launch it, immediately a business dropped by about 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I completely broke this business. 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: Hi'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to another work from Home 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: episode of Math and Magic. Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Episode by episode, we dispect marketing and business, examining that 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: special relationship between the analytics and the creativity. Today, we 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: have someone who is an avowed practitioner of the combination 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: of left brain and right brain. He calls those folks 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: and people his name Brad Uranaga, Chief Brand Officer North 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: America for General Mills. Brad grew up in the Pacific Northwest, 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: the creative kid who loves sports and student government too. 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: He has worked on iconic brands and moved them from 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: nostalgia to current and epic with great success. He has 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: fully formed important insights about hiring a culture that helped 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: build a strong organization. He started his career in finance, 26 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: including at Starbucks, went to the mid West for his 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: NBA at Michigan, and then discovered his true calling marketing. 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: He's one of the top thinkers in marketing today with 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: visible successes to validate his theories. Brad welcome, Thanks so 30 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: much for having I love that intro and hearing your 31 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: voice makes it sound ten times better. Well, listen, we're 32 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: gonna dig into some real meaty stuff, but I first 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: want to do our you in sixty seconds feature, So 34 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: you're ready, I'm ready? Yes, Okay, here you go. Do 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: you prefer sunrise or sunset? Sunset, football or basketball, Basketball, 36 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: Instagram or Twitter, Instagram, Seattle or Minneapolis, Seattle Beach or Mountains, 37 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: Oh Beach for sure, Nike or Adidas, Nike, Pizza or Tacos. 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: I will go with pizza marketing or finance marketing. Smartest 39 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: person you know? My dad first job babysitter favorite cereal, 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: Lucky Charms, who would play you in a movie. I'm 41 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: gonna take some liberties here. I'll say Ryan Reynolds, title 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: of your memoir, unlocking potential favorite music artist. I'm gonna 43 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: say Drake, favorite Star Wars character, Bubba fet favorite video 44 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: game Call of Duty? And what's one food you'd never eat? 45 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, probably blowfish. That's a good choice. So let's 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: jump in. For the past few weeks, we have really 47 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: seen our society shaken to the core. We've seen broken 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: consumer habits, and it's forced us all to examine ourselves 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: and the world around us like probably we've never done before. 50 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: As a marketer, how have you dealt with it? Our 51 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: purpose as a company has been to serve the world 52 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: by making food that it loves. It quickly shifted when 53 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen really hit hard in March two, changing the 54 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: last word from loves to needs, and I think that's 55 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: where we really started to have even more empathy with 56 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: our consumers because it wasn't enough just to be marketing 57 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: and selling anymore. It was really truly to understand what 58 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: people were going through. You know, we're fortunate to be 59 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: in an industry that has been one that people need 60 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: even more as folks have shifted to home and making 61 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: more meals at home, and so our role to really 62 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: play was to ensure that we could just get food 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: eight that people needed and make it as accessible and 64 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: affordable and safe as possible. And so the first few 65 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: weeks really were kind of a testament to our supply 66 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: chain that they were able to really turn it on 67 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: in a way that was able to really fill that demand. 68 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: I was kind of ostruck really by the way that 69 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: they worked. And we've talked a lot about frontline workers 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: in different industries. Certainly the folks that work at our 71 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: plants are part of that really heroic group, and so 72 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: we've been doing our best to support that group. As 73 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: we've kind of understood what new demand looks like, we 74 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: really started to change how we think about what our 75 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: roles are. Our marketing philosophy is trying to be action 76 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: lead action first, and then talk about it. And so 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: how do we give people tips, ideas, tricks to be 78 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: able to stretch their dollar and afford more food and 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: make more things out of their pantry, refrigerator, People spending 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: much more time with family, How do we help provide 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: content that's much more about creating those kind of moments 82 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: that you want with your kids, or really teaching them 83 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: how to cook for the first time. And so the 84 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: pivot on how we've become much more human centric and 85 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: action oriented in a way that feels really good. As 86 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: a marketer, it feels like doing our part to help. 87 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: It felt really good to be able to play that 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: role given all the challenges that we're facing right now. 89 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: You know, I've seen some talk about General Mills mission 90 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: to solve the hunger gap. Can you talk a little 91 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: bit about that. The hunger gap has always been something 92 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: that specifically as we look at North America, has been 93 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: a challenge. I think within the last few months that 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: gap has accelerated and increased as people have lost jobs, 95 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: as kids who actually relied on lunch and breakfast programs 96 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: at school, we're no longer able to go to class. 97 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: And so we've done some really great work in partnership 98 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: with Feeding America and No Kid Hungry to really solve 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: the problem of hunger. That's a role that General Mills, 100 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest food manufacturers in the world, 101 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: doesn't take lightly. We need to play that role to 102 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: solve that gap. And it also works into our employees too. 103 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: We have tons of employees that give their time to 104 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: volunteer at food banks and to do their part for 105 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: their communities, and that's really been a part of the 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: DNA of General Mills. So let's talk a minute about 107 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: what this has done to the consumer. You were talking 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: about kids learning to cook for the first time. How 109 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: has the consumer behavior changed and how much of it 110 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: do you think that's permanent. I'd say the shifts have 111 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: been really significant. One shift they'll talk with you a 112 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: little bit about is just how people are shopping consumer 113 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: package food industry. Shopping online has really kind of lacked 114 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: a lot of other industries as people just haven't been 115 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: as comfortable buying groceries and food three Amazon or Walmart 116 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: or Roger or whatever channel they were looking to buy. 117 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: Through the shift that we've started to see, there has 118 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: been a dramatic uptick. Obviously, these people don't want to 119 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: spend as much time in grocery stores or going out 120 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: of their homes. That is something that we foresee sticking 121 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: not just through this year, but for the foreseeable future 122 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: and growing. Folks that may have been technology adverse or 123 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to try the experience. Now I've kind of 124 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: been forced into that. Certainly, there's gonna be times when 125 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: you want to go to a store and go to 126 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: the market. But I also think once you experience how 127 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: easy it is to buy online and the kinds of 128 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: solutions that companies like General Mills can provide to consumers, 129 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: it becomes really a great experience. That's your core of 130 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: it is technology. You know, here at iHeart, we found 131 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: that it is greatly accelerated people's discovery that they could 132 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: get the radio on a lot of other devices other 133 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: than a radio device, doubling tripling use on smart TVs, 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: video game consoles, smart speakers, etcetera. What you're looking at 135 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: is ten years of technology adoption crammed into a few months. 136 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: We see it in our business. Sounds like you're seeing 137 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: in your business. What do you think that meets overall? 138 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: For marketers? How do they have to adjust to that 139 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: huge jump in technology adoption. We had fashioned ourselves a 140 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: lot of times to say, hey, we're a technology company 141 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: that sells food. The reality is that we still have 142 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: a long way to go to really matching the kind 143 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: of experiences that companies who are built out of technology 144 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: already delivered to consumers. And so one of the things 145 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: that we've been talking about lately is if you or 146 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: I have a great experience buying a airline ticket or 147 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: booking something on Airbnb, or a piece of content that 148 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: you enjoy watching through Netflix, that xs experience is really great, remarkable, 149 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: then every other experience you have via technology is going 150 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: to be held up to that level. That's what we're 151 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: talking about. In terms of our technology, it's no longer 152 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: even close to being good enough for us to say, oh, well, 153 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: this is how our competitive food brands are doing it, 154 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: and we're about the same or a little better than them. 155 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: We have to look at what the best experiences. Shifting 156 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: to an experienced lead mindset is really where marketing is 157 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: going to go. And as we look internally, it's the 158 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: way we're set up and the way that we work, 159 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: and maybe the talent the partners we have. There's really 160 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: a tremendous opportunity for us to start to think differently 161 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: about do we have the right capabilities and the right 162 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: kind of people in the right roles. Because we've gone 163 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: from a very product centered mindset to starting to move 164 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: now it's much more of a user based mindset. I 165 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: believe we're going to be going after talent and tech 166 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: companies or agencies that have more of an expertise there 167 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: to bring that in and really start to think about 168 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: that language and embedding it in the way that we 169 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: create experiences. I'm really excited about that because our brands 170 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: are bigger than just products. They tell stories, but they 171 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: also need to be about services. They need to elevate 172 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: themselves up to experiences. So I'm going to get into 173 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: some of that with you, but first I'd like to 174 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: go back in time to understand how you developed. You 175 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: grew up in the Pacific Northwest, where in two places 176 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: that gre up in Portland and then just south of Seattle. 177 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: And your dad was from Hawaii. Your mom was from 178 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. And they were teachers. Is that right? 179 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: They were, Yeah, both of them started off as teachers 180 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: in their career. How having teachers as parents affected you? 181 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: What kind of household was that like? First and foremost, 182 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: it gave me a much deeper empathy for people that 183 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: have chosen that profession. It's pretty outstanding. And the other 184 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: piece of it was in our house, everything kind of 185 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: had a learning agenda in mind. There was always learning 186 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: and always opportunities to learn. And really this push of 187 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: always being curious asking questions was good and okay, and 188 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out answer to those questions was a 189 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: big part of our childhood. I think my sister and 190 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: I really benefited from that. My dad eventually transitioned out 191 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: and went into more of a corporate business career and 192 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: human resources. My mom always stayed involved with school. She 193 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: substitute taught, she created an art literacy program. I feel 194 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: really fortunate to have grown up in that way and 195 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: been able to bring a lot of that curiosity and 196 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: constant thirst for trying to learn and figure out what 197 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: drives people and what makes brands interesting and where trends 198 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: are going. And I think that's part of a marketer's role, 199 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: is that not only creates curiosity for our function or 200 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: for other marketers, but really for the whole company. How 201 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: can we create a learning mindset for our whole organizations? 202 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: So we all think that way. Let me jump a 203 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: little bit and stay in the same time period. You 204 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,479 Speaker 1: grew up in the seventies, eighties, and nineties and probably 205 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: the hippest place in the country then Pacific Northwest. Can 206 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: you paint a picture of that time and place. My 207 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: high school in college years were Big Harbert's Comma and 208 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: Seattle's areas in Washington State, probably in that moment kind 209 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: of the height of where music was really literally being created. 210 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: Growing up in the environment of gray, cloudy Seattle days 211 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: where everybody wore flannel and had long hair, and coffee 212 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: was becoming a big thing, and we're all getting introduced 213 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: to bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Sound Garden. 214 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: It was awesome that music scene and that vibe and 215 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: that part of the nineties and into the two thousands. 216 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it really had a pretty transformational imprint on 217 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: the city of Seattle and in the Northwest because a 218 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: band like Pearl Jam, they were out and about in 219 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: the community in a way that made you feel really 220 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: proud of me part of Seattle, and it was just 221 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: a fun period of time to be a part of that. 222 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: So you talked about babysitting. What other jobs did you 223 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: have as a kid? I mentioned babysitting as a first 224 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: because I was really proud of the fact that most 225 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: of the times girls did that role. And I had 226 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: neighbors in our neighborhood who had boys and they said, hey, 227 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: do you want to interested babysitting that? So I did 228 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: that and I learned a ton of what to do 229 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: and what not to do in raising kids. The other 230 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: jobs that I add I did a lot of landscaping work, 231 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: so I was outside a lot, and I enjoyed that. 232 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: I had a job all through college in the summers, 233 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: and I worked at one of the best named companies 234 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: in the world's called Tacoma Screw Products. It had is 235 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: many different kinds of fasteners and screws and nuts and 236 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: bolts that you can have. Imagine more than I ever 237 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: thought was possible. Um, the opposite of being a handy guy, 238 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: Like I'm not good with that stuff. But every summer 239 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: of my best friend and I would work at different department. 240 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 1: So we were working and receiving, and then we work 241 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: in shipping, and then we worked the front desk, and 242 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: then we'd work the forklift and we'd move palletts. I 243 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: get experience a whole business and see it from every angle. 244 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: That was probably one of my more formative years. And 245 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: then my senior year in college, I was the vice 246 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: president of our school. That was a full time pretty 247 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: much a full time job that just provided a ton 248 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: of leadership opportunities. We had about a half million dollar 249 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: budget that we were responsible for. We were responsible for 250 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: bringing in entertainment in bands like we brought in food Fighters, 251 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: which is a huge deal, and we were also responsible 252 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: for all the other clubs that were on campus, and 253 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: just a great opportunity for me to learn how to 254 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: lead a team, how to run a business, how to 255 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: have a budget, and so those experiences were really formative 256 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: for me as I got into my next phase of 257 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: my career. Did you ever think about brands from marketing 258 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: as a kid? Did that ever go through your brain? 259 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: I have been in love with brands probably since I 260 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: was about five years old. The reason was, you know, 261 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: one of the best brands probably in the world grown 262 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: up right outside of Portland was Nike, and because I 263 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: love sports and because of the location. I remember being 264 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: pretty explicit at a really young age. My parents would 265 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: always joke with me that I had to have certain 266 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: clothes that had the squosh on it or I wouldn't 267 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: wear it. I laughed about that now because I still 268 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: in the same way. I still love Nike and I 269 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: still love that brand. And the other great part about 270 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: Seattle was just the explosion of companies that happened there 271 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: in the nineties Microsoft and then you had Starbucks, and 272 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: you had Amazon, and on and on and on. So 273 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: when Starbucks hit the scene and I eventually got a 274 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: job there, I was super excited because I gotta see 275 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: Howard Schultz talk a lot about his belief of the 276 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Starbucks brand and the experience that he had when he 277 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 1: was in Europe, and how he wanted to bring it 278 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: to the world, and his aspiration was to be a bigger, 279 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: more impactful brand than Coke. I got to be a 280 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: part of that as that was really starting to form 281 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: and become bigger. It just reaffirmed us to what I 282 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: wanted to do, and so I eventually went to back 283 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: to school. I chose Michigan because it was known for marketing. 284 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: It's eventually why I chose this field, because I just 285 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: love the idea of brands. I love the motion they 286 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: have with them, and I love that people can be 287 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: loyal and advocate for brands. I'm very fortunate to be 288 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: working on the brands that I get to today. Let's 289 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: jump into Michigan. You're in the Pacific Northwest, and you 290 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: decide I'm going to get my m b A at Michigan. 291 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: Now you said it's because of marketing, but that must 292 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: have been a hell of a culture shock. It totally was. 293 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: But the program that they had there was really focused 294 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: on a few things. One was teamwork. You're gonna work 295 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: in teams and everything you do, So I love that 296 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: collegial feel. The other part of the program that I 297 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: liked it was actually quite blue collar in a lot 298 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: of ways. The kinds of students they wanted to attract 299 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: were the kinds of people that would roll their sleeves 300 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: up and really dig into a problem. I love that 301 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: idea of like getting into something deep and not sitting 302 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: at it from above. And so those values really matched 303 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: up really well what I wanted to do. In addition 304 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: to it being great marketing in a national business and 305 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: some other programs I was interested in, it's been an 306 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: amazing alumni network. I love going back to ann Arbor. 307 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: It's an amazing town, and so I'm really proud to 308 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: have gone to school there, and I try to represent that. 309 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: Be is. They have a lot of values that are 310 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: online with mine to have my brands. They're a great 311 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: brand in it themselves. So why did you think you 312 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: need the NBA, you were doing finance, Starbucks, you were 313 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: some nice places. What was it that said I need 314 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: the NBA. I felt like to transition into the next 315 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: level of leadership, that it would be an accelerator for me. 316 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: I felt like I wanted to do something different, and 317 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to challenge myself, and I wanted to be 318 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: around new people that I could go and learn from. 319 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know about brand management as a career path specifically. 320 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: When I was going back, I knew I wanted to 321 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: do marketing more broadly, But as soon as I stepped 322 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: foot on campus and I went to like one employee event, 323 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm sold, Like this is what 324 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: I want to go do. What it does give you 325 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: is a different kind of perspective across all these opportunities 326 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: that you're probably not going to run into that many 327 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: times in your life. A network of people that are 328 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: massively talented that I still say in touch with many 329 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: of them, that are doing amazing things in their career 330 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: in other places, and just time to reflect a little bit. 331 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: There is a fast pace to it. You're learning, you're 332 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: going to classes, you're joining clubs, all that stuff. But 333 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: up been back They're like, Okay, I can actually reflect 334 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: on my life and what path do I want to 335 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: go on? What did you get out of the Midwest 336 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: that you use today in its formed sort of the 337 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: basis for your view of marketing. The truth is, even 338 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: though I've grown to love Minneapolis it's a wonderful city, 339 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, I'm still very much 340 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: West Coast like, I still feel like I represent the 341 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: West Coast and my beliefs and in my vibe and 342 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: what I try to think about. And so I will 343 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: say what I love about the Midwest, though I've been 344 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: in cities like in Urborn Minneapolis, which are really progressive, 345 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: really thoughtful cities with diversity from different places. So there 346 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: actually is quite a bit of diverse thinking and learning 347 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: that happens in these places that I've been able to 348 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: be in. And then in the city like Minneapolis, you 349 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: don't have to go very far to get really rural, 350 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: and I think the ability to be in places where 351 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: you get a different kind of outlook in life is 352 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: really helpful to provide different perspective as a marketer. I 353 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: think it makes me a more appreciative marketer. The different 354 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: kinds of people that are out there. But you know, 355 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: it's interesting a lot of these CpG companies. This has changed, 356 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: But I was in schools, like the next thing you 357 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: do after you go get your NBA if you want 358 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: to be like a really great marketer, as you get 359 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: to a CpG and you learn how to do the 360 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: marketing there, and I still think there's a lot of 361 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: credibility to that. But certainly a Procter and Gamble or 362 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: a Freedomly at PepsiCo or some of these other companies 363 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: General Mills, you're going to get immersed in, like how 364 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: to think really strategically about marketing and segmenting and targeting 365 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: and positioning and building great brands, and so those fundamentals 366 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: are transferable no matter where you end up. Marketing at 367 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: those companies too means a little bit something different when 368 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: you go there. You got to learn the whole business. 369 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: I've gotten this job and I've been able to meet 370 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: other cmos and talk about their roles, and a lot 371 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: of times they talk about marketing and the definition of 372 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: it can mean so many different things in different places. 373 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: They'll say, well, I do marketing, and then we get 374 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: into it and really are talking about advertising media. And 375 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: while I view that as part of marketing. I also 376 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: because of the way that we set it up at 377 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: General Mills, it's so much broader than that. We have 378 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: to know the p m L, you have to know 379 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: the forecast, you have to be in the supply chain. 380 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: You got to know the consumer and the brand in addition, 381 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: and so I think that breath is what I've really 382 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: come to love about the job. More on Mathew Magic 383 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: right after this quick break. Welcome back to Math and Magic. 384 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: Now let's hear some more from my conversation with Brad 385 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: hire Naga on this podcast. I always am interested in 386 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: how people got their break into the business. Story. You 387 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: get your m b A from prestigious school Michigan and 388 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: you wind up at General Mills. How part of the 389 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: benefit of going to the school like a Michigan or 390 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: some of these other grade schools that are out there 391 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: is you know, companies come to recruit there. I interned 392 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: at PepsiCo and down Fridol in Dallas and I loved it, 393 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: So I was sold. I was like, I want to 394 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: do this career. I want to go to brands. The 395 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: benefit for me to come to Mills and the opportunity 396 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: there was that it has so many brands and so 397 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: many categories, and I thought, Okay, if I can learn 398 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: how to market food, which is one of the most 399 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: intimate things where you have to build trust with people 400 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: to put something in their body, then it will pay 401 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: off in whatever I market in the future. So I 402 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: actually started out in a role that was in food service, 403 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: in a restaurant accounts. I didn't even know General sold 404 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: that stuff, and so when I came in the door, 405 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: they were like, Hey, you're going to be working on 406 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: restaurant accounts and helping support Subway and McDonald's. And I 407 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: was like, what do you mean, I'm not working on cheerios. 408 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no, if we do channels and 409 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: that's your first and you work at Starbucks, so it's 410 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: a good fit. But I went in that job and 411 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: I learned so much about sales and about understanding the 412 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: channels and about restaurants. And I've been fortunate to do that, 413 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: and then I've worked on big brands like Pillsbury and 414 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: small brands like Betty Crocker, and epic brands like Totino's 415 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: and delicious brands like Old Opasso, and those kind of 416 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: diversity of experiences have really been such a benefit. They've 417 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: allowed me to see different consumers, different brands, and then 418 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity as well to just come into 419 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: roles that were off the beating path. What came to 420 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: me about five years into my career was an opportunity 421 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: to go lead a digital team. And at the time 422 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: it was very ambiguous what that meant. I had done 423 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: some digital, more keating, we had some success on Pillsbury, 424 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: and so I said, sure, I'm gonna go form whatever 425 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: this is. It was more an opportunity to really come 426 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: in and build a team. There's already this great talent 427 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: that was in these jobs, and I was able to 428 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: take them and bring back my commercial understanding and put 429 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: them into roles that helped them start to transform the 430 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: thinking of how we did brand building. The CMO that 431 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: worked at the company, his name is Mark Addicts and 432 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: he since retired, an amazing marketer, a legend. He's always 433 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: been a huge mentor for me. He gave me some 434 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: opportunities to really take that project and lean into and said, hey, 435 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: we got this thing called the future marketing. We need 436 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: someone to drive it. You get the commercial side, you 437 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: get the digital side. You seem to have a understanding 438 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: of where we need to go, like help craft this, 439 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: and so that's really been my career in the last 440 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: ten years has been figuring out how to do that 441 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: and having a ton of failure along the way, but 442 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: really starting to plot what does the future look like 443 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: and how do we bring not just one or two 444 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: of our brands to it, but all of our brands 445 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,959 Speaker 1: to it, and all of our marketers there and all 446 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: our agency partners to that place. You've talked about moving 447 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: some of the most trusted iconic brands, which your company's 448 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: very well them for, from nostalgia to epic and current. 449 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: Why and how did you do that? And talk a 450 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: little bit about the internal pressure you must have gotten 451 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: not to mess with the classics. One of the opportunities 452 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: in a brand that was kind of a sleepy brand 453 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: but was doing okay when I got to work on 454 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: it was Totinos, and that's a almost a billion dollar brand. 455 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: It sells pizza, rolls and pizza. When I inherited it, 456 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: it had been doing a lot of pretty standard kind 457 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: of marketing. It was an after school snack, It was 458 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: targeted towards moms. It was doing fine, and so you know, 459 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: when things are going okay. It's not always the easiest 460 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: time to come in and say let's do something different. 461 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: But what I started to see right away was that 462 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: there was a huge opportunity and the brand had dabbled 463 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: in other places before. It had sponsored the X Games, 464 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: it had partnered with snowboarding athletes, and it had built 465 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: this kind of community people who love the brand. We 466 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: just said, hey, we've had a huge opportunity. We're not 467 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: tapping into. How do we experiment with this consumer group 468 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: who actually loves the brand? And how did we happen 469 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: to that insight and really started to build this branding 470 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: culture because otherwise it's not relevant, it never stands out, 471 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: no one notices it. We went with that mindset into 472 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: gotta do what we had to do day to day, 473 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: and we have to craft the future. And in that 474 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: future crafting, we were really kind of set free. So 475 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: we went into all these different passion places around the brand. 476 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: We explored comedy, we explored comic con, we explored passion 477 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: projects around gaming. We even explored stuff around marijuana culture, 478 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: and we follow a consumer and where they went. We 479 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: wanted to Tina's to really be epic around leisure, like 480 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: championing anything you could do to live the most leisurely 481 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: life stle that you could. And so we created this 482 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: brand idea called Live Free, Couch Hard, and everything was 483 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: built around owning the couch. So it made our partnerships 484 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: with people like Twitch and other kinds of video games 485 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed an Xbox. It 486 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: made it really like a seamless thing, and that's what 487 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: our consumers were already doing. Anyway, we did in a 488 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 1: very absurd, irreverent, but very self aware way, and we 489 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: were able to craft a brand that started to break through. 490 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: It's given new life to it. We're able to really 491 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: flip the brand over and say, okay, we still got 492 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: to talk to moms about making sure they're buying product, 493 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: but really this brand at its heart is for this. 494 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: We call them instependent. But like these people who are 495 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: seventeen years old, knowledgeable luck culture, they want things when 496 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: they want it, like, let's make the brand for them. 497 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: What I'm most proud about is that we're able to 498 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: use that success to break through old, old, old traditions 499 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: that generals that need to evolve. We weren't allowed to 500 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: advertise on rated our movies. We weren't allowed to be 501 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: in certain cable programs because it was too mature. We 502 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: weren't allowed to market around things like marijuana. And that's 503 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: not right for every brand, and certainly not for a 504 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: lot of our brands that have younger audiences, but for 505 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: the audiences we're going after, and for how pinpointed and 506 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: targeted we could get, it was right. We were able 507 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: to break through that way and really start to lead 508 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: the company to think much more progressively. When you say 509 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: they had rules that you couldn't do it, who sets 510 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: those rules? Where they set long ago and no one 511 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: questioned them? Are they set by committee or the CEO 512 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: or the CMO? How do things like that happen in 513 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: a company that has to kind of longevity that General 514 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: Mills has. I think some of them are traditionally said 515 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: and no one questions them. Old rules like that happen 516 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: in a lot of places. We also have a Responsible 517 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: Marketing Committee that's very effective and looks across all of 518 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: things that may not comply with our marketing policies. Our 519 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: lawyers and our marketers that are on that committee. I'm 520 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: one of the people now on it. Ironically, are pretty 521 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: flexible in terms of thinking like we're constantly evolving what 522 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: that looks like. But I will tell you going to 523 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: that committee five six seventy years ago, marketers would get scared. 524 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: I think like I don't want to take this and 525 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: then get shut down, or I don't want to take 526 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: this and it's gonna look bad if it doesn't work. 527 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: Instead of putting it the other way, like let's go 528 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: to that committee and like let's build on it and 529 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: come with new ideas. It was kind of seen the 530 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: other way, but it took some things like Totino's running 531 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: into things. And our team was awesome and they were like, 532 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: you know what we see ourselves kind of the renegade 533 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: and where the change age. And to be honest, I 534 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: had lots of great support from other leaders around the 535 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: company that were like, dude, go like push it, push it, 536 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,239 Speaker 1: try it be different, Like we don't have enough of that. 537 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: I won't name the lawyer, but I had one lawyer 538 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: it was like telling me one day, He's like, we 539 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: don't get sued enough. You should try to get a 540 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: suit more. And I was like, well, I don't know, 541 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: I'm gona take that advice completely. Nevertheless, that was a 542 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: good period of time for us to really test those parameters, 543 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: and what we found was that the company was Radio 544 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: Evolve that just needed some brands to kind of step 545 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: up and push on some old rules. As you move forward, 546 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: you have to take a lot of chances. No one 547 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: gets it right all the time. Everybody's got failures. What 548 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: was your biggest failure with a brand and why and 549 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: what did you learn from it. I had a pretty 550 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: massive failure about five or six years ago, and it 551 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: was actually on the same brands on Totinos. We were 552 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: taking a pizza and we were going to move it 553 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: from being a circle pizza to a rectangle pizza. At 554 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: the time, our consumer research said, hey, this is a 555 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: good idea. Our supply chain absolutely needed to do that 556 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: because the equipment we had needed to be redone and 557 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: we didn't have a capacity to make the pizza we're 558 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: making at the time, so we need to replace it. 559 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: And that was the way to do it and meet 560 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: the demand that we had of consumers. I inherited that 561 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: project kind of halfway through, and my gun initially was like, 562 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, this feels like it's such a big change, 563 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,239 Speaker 1: Like how are we going to make this change? And 564 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: then seeing the research and talking into the supply chain 565 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: the reason to do it. I kind of allowed myself 566 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: to go down that path because when we did launch it, 567 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: immediately business dropped by about I was like, oh my god, 568 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: I completely broke this business. That's such a big decline, 569 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: especially in CpG. If I would have followed my gut 570 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: a little bit more, I think I would have prepared 571 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: for the launch of it in a more aggressive way 572 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: to help people make that transition. Fortunately, we were able 573 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: to do some reactions and do some marketing tactics and 574 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: bring people back along, and the business is now bigger 575 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: than it's ever been. But at the time and the 576 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: crisis around that and in the fear because that is 577 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: one of our biggest businesses, I felt like I messed up. 578 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: You mentioned at the beginning, like there's this left brain 579 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: right brain balancing act that we all have to do. 580 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: I think in that instance, I leaned way too heavily 581 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: into logic, being myself into thinking it was the right 582 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: thing versus feeling that it was the right thing, and 583 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: so I always try to find that balance based off 584 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: of that learning that in that instance, I definitely was 585 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: off balance making that decision. Let's talk about left brain 586 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: right brain. When I was in college and was a 587 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: sociology major spending a lot of time and what is 588 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: now called research or data, I was cautioned by somebody 589 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: that research is not policy making at best, it conditions 590 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: your gut to make a gut decision. You talk a 591 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: lot about left brain right brain. Indeed, this podcast is 592 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: about math and magic, that mix that seems to be 593 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: when you get it right, create the great successes. Talk 594 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: to me a little bit about that and what role 595 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: that place in both your organization and in your own 596 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: view of marketing. I really like the way that you 597 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: talked about research. That makes a ton of sense to me. 598 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: What we're looking for within marketers and our organization. It's 599 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: people that can do both those things, or if they're 600 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: firmly in one camp or the other, we know where 601 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: they kind of fit. We did some team building with 602 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: my leadership team a few months ago. They basically put 603 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: us into a color wheel. I ended up being on 604 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: the color wheel I think yellow, which was about ideas. 605 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: There was other people in our group that were green, 606 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: which is about people first. There was another group that 607 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: was more about command first and red, and there was 608 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: last group was blue, which is more about logic and 609 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: numbers first. And what we found was that a lot 610 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: of people are group were much more balanced, but in 611 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: most other functions in our company, people were much more blue, 612 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: which is like I need the numbers, and then they 613 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: were read and to make the command knowing that, like 614 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm much more in the idea of state, but I 615 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: know that people need to see that first, and so 616 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: when I want to sell an idea, it's helpful for 617 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: me to have that context so that I can sell 618 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: them with the numbers or with the quantitative or with 619 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: the KPI is up front. I think a lot of 620 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: time great ideas, really creative people in companies get lost 621 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: because the people ultimately making the decision or holding the 622 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: pen to the actual checkbook don't understand how it drives 623 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: the business. And so ultimately you have to have both. 624 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: We're really trying to push our teams to have that 625 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: experience where they're like they understand the business and commercial 626 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: side enough of it that it has to make business sense, 627 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: but then it also has to have I love what 628 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: you say, the magic sense to it. What's what's the 629 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: sense of the idea that's going to be so creatively 630 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: amazing and remarkable that people are going to fall in 631 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: love with it and talk about it. So that's part 632 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: of the in mindset is can you bring the logic 633 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: with that creative essence of the idea. Do you think 634 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: there are many people actually who can do both or 635 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: do you think most people are either analytical or creative. 636 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a unique trait to be 637 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: completely balanced. I think everyone kind of leans one way 638 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: or the other. I think there's also a place for 639 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: everybody too. It's a comment upon leaders to be able 640 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: to figure out the right mix of those people and 641 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: build that on their teams. Another way of looking at 642 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: ideas is this concept we talk a lot about orchestration, 643 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: like how do you orchestrate an insight into a strategy, 644 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: into an idea into an activation and learn about it? 645 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: And who on our team can see the bigger chess 646 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: board and all the pieces and be able to kind 647 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: of orchestrate them beautifully to that execution. It's hard to 648 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: find that talent people that can do that, and I 649 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: think that's true in marketing. I think that's truugh in 650 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: supply chain or finance or any other functions or industries 651 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: that you might be in. But the great thing is, 652 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: I think there's an ability to find people that can 653 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: do that and put them in the right positions, and 654 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: then give them the people around them that are maybe 655 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: a little more analytical or maybe more creative. Another interesting 656 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,959 Speaker 1: spin on this organization that we've been talking about is 657 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: you know the people in the company that are amazing 658 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: disruptive thinkers, and you also know the people in the 659 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: company that are amazing executors, and you need both of 660 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: those things. But some of the most often forgotten people 661 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: in those companies are the connectors that connect the dots 662 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: between the two. We don't necessarily see them. They kind 663 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: of make it happen, but they don't get the reward 664 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: for getting it done or the word for coming up 665 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: with the idea. Understanding as a leader like I need 666 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: all those things? How do I get them? You need 667 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: them all? Let's talk a little bit about your views 668 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: on things I'm at I heart number one audio company 669 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: in America. I have a bias, but I've been particularly 670 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: interested in your comments about shifting more resources to audio 671 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: radio podcast. Why did radio get forgotten? I think because 672 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: video more easily conveys the marketing idea to people in 673 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: a border. Even today, when you're going to go show 674 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: a marketing concept to people, it's really easy just to 675 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, here's the fifteen second video that I 676 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: want to show you so you get the idea. I 677 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: also think that TV as a medium, even still today 678 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: as people continue to migrate into other channels, hold such 679 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: a significant weight because of what people think about television, 680 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: and it's been interesting how you want to actually have 681 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: the most reach, you actually want to go into radio. 682 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: I know for us today, when we talk about an idea, 683 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: where does this idea need to go? Where can it 684 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: adjoy or solve a problem in people's life? And that 685 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: leads us to much more holistic thinking of ideas that 686 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's like, well, this is a 687 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: voice thing because we actually want it to be solved 688 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: through either a voice command or it actually has a 689 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: much more musical piece where we want people to listen 690 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: to it and have that emotion. When you can center 691 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: it that way, it allows us to be a lot 692 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: more channel agnostic or pick the right roles for channels 693 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: as they come forward. But certainly the push that we've 694 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: had the last couple of years, I think you guys 695 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: have done a really great job of getting brands to 696 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: think about this is to really understand in what ways 697 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: then if you're reconsidering radio and sound an audio, does 698 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: your brand need to show up in those spaces people 699 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: are multitasking. You can't leave out sound in the radio 700 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: and just focus on video and vice versa. And so 701 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: how do those things even work together? And that's where 702 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: we've done a lot of work to advance ourselves, like 703 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: what is our mnemonic, what is our sound architecture? How 704 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: do we want to sound on? And I'm excited about 705 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: that because that's to me, where we've had more of 706 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: a gap than we should have in our plans over 707 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: the last number of years. It's interesting to me is 708 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: having spent a lot of years in TV, I think 709 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: if TV is America's hobby, radio has been America's companion. 710 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: We keep people company. Other companies besides yours, like P 711 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: and G has gone from probably three or four years 712 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: ago not even being in the top two hundred radio advertisers, 713 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: so I think last year they were number one or 714 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: number two, So there's definitely a trend moving here. And 715 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: then of course, we finally in radio have a new 716 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: shiny toy called podcasting. It's really taken the world by storm. 717 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: How do you think about podcasting. It's elevated to a 718 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: level where you know, we used to talk about what 719 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: shows we watch, and now in conversations people are talking 720 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: about what podcasts they listen to, and it's become a 721 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: cultural currency in a way because the topics are so diverse. 722 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: There's the intimacy that I know you've talked a lot 723 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: about that you have. It's that one to one connection 724 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: where I can just listen to someone talking. I feel 725 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: like they're talking to me individually versus a show or 726 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: a movie where it's much broader for everybody to me. 727 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: There's a ton of potential on that, and a lot 728 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: of our brands are moving that direction. They're figuring out, Okay, 729 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: what ways can we show up? How do we continue 730 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: to push our brands to show up in those spaces 731 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: really creatively and use those dynamic channels in ways that 732 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: they haven't been used before. I'm super excited about that. 733 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: The podcast space for us is something we're highly interested 734 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 1: in doing more and more work in. Let's talk a 735 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: second about TV. CpG and TV synonymous. TV has always 736 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: been the foundation of most CpG campaigns, and yet now 737 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: we have all these great scripted TV shows moving to 738 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: subscription service and not being available and adds supported TV. 739 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: How has that changed the thinking about television and the 740 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: opportunities for the products you have. I think it changes 741 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: almost day by day, especially in the space of different 742 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: formats and platforms that are popping up all over the place. 743 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: What does that mean? We're still pretty diverse and where 744 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: we try to invest in and TV is still a 745 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: part of that. But it goes back to what are 746 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: our consumers doing, where are they spending time, and where 747 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: they're going to be receptive to things that we could 748 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: provide to them in some of our brands to really 749 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: kind of recraft the role of what advertising actually is. 750 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: And it's probably going off to back to you know, 751 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: you talked a little bit Procter and Gamble, but vacuum 752 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: into the days when they were creating soap operas to 753 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: run their heads between. There's a lot of opportunity for 754 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: us to tell different stories with our characters, with our 755 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: consumers that we could do a lot for ourselves to 756 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: shift the thinking of what that means. How do we 757 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: start to shift this the stories and content that's useful 758 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: and enjoyable and interesting. We've been in conversations with lots 759 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: of different kinds of creators, some in agencies, some in Hollywood, 760 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: some production, and like, how can we think about these assets? 761 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: And this I p differently, and certainly you've seen things 762 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: with like Lego, and I think toy companies have done 763 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: it really well crafting movies and series and all those 764 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: types of things. We're still kind of early stages with 765 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: where that's going, but I think we have to go 766 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: that direction. Let's jump to some advice. How should people 767 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: think about hiring? You've built some really interesting, cutting edge teams. 768 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: What's your secret source there? I think the first thing 769 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: that if you're responsible for leading a team is to 770 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,479 Speaker 1: be really reflective and open with yourself about what you're 771 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: great at and what you're not great at. I've come 772 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: to terms with things that I'm not good at over time. 773 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: And knowing the kinds of people that you need on teams, 774 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: both from a talent and expertise perspective, in strengths that 775 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: offset things that I don't have, has really been a 776 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: big part of my philosophy over time. The second pieces, 777 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: I love to hire for diversity, and I mean that 778 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: partially in terms of diversity of ethnicity and preferences and 779 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: all that kind of thing, but I also means that 780 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: in diversity of experience. People who have had experiences in 781 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: different industries or agencies or in different career paths. Those people, 782 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: I feel like make really good partners because they see 783 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: the world through different lenses and had experiences they can 784 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: bring to the table. And then the last part of 785 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: it is people who are nice people. I've worked on 786 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: teams where one jerk can throw off the whole dynamic 787 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: of the team. So holding fast the values of being 788 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: a good person kind of one another, I think is 789 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: really important in building the right chemistry. And I'll be 790 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: honest with the current team I've got, I'm really happy 791 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: about it. It's taken time to get it to a 792 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: place where it gets as high performing as it could be, 793 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: or as it should be. If you could give some 794 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: advice to your twenty one year old self, what advice 795 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: would that be? I would say, never operate out of 796 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: fear of making the wrong choice. I think a lot 797 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: of times when you're at that age, you feel like, Okay, 798 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 1: I gotta make the right choice at the right time. 799 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: And I think life has a way of guiding you 800 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: down paths that you're meant to go down. At the time, 801 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: I felt like I was way more in control probably 802 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: than I really was, And honestly like getting back to 803 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: a place where I could have been a little more 804 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: present and a little more accepting of the way things 805 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: were going, not trying to control everything would have made life, 806 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: I think, a little bit easier along the way. And 807 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: the other part I would have probably told myself is, 808 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: don't be afraid to take big swings at things. I 809 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: feel like I have over my career here and there, 810 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: but I think more consistently, like trying those big things 811 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: and failing potentially is totally fine, and actually, like I 812 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: look it that now, I'm like, I have a different 813 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: perspective on that at my age that I did back then, 814 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: which is like failure is actually really productive and good. 815 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: Back then, I didn't want to fail. I want to 816 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: look like I was doing everything the right all the time, 817 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: and that's just impossible. We end each episode by giving 818 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: some shout outs. Instead of our usual focus on marketing people, 819 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: let's focus on just marketing math and magic data analytics 820 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: and the creative. What's your favorite marketing success, Your company 821 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: or anywhere else built on data and analytics. Driven by that, 822 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: I will tell you we have made some really big 823 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: strides in data and analytics and technology in general. We 824 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: have coupled platforms. One is like Pillsbury dot com and 825 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: Betty Croker dot com, which are basically recipe and meal 826 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: solution sites in platforms, but also our box ops for 827 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: education platform. The way that that works is once people 828 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: sign up to the app and they scan their receipts, 829 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: they're able to localize, personalize the schools that they want 830 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: to give money to. What's really cool for us is 831 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: that is we're able to look at that. It gives 832 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: us the data to be able to say, Okay, what 833 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 1: kind of things are these folks buying that they would 834 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: value more of us, they can donate more of their schools. 835 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: We're really starting to use that information to give people 836 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: more customized, personalized solutions so that it's less of things 837 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't want and more things that they're really valuing. 838 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: This concept of moving from mass marketing to one to 839 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: want at mass, I think it's starting to happen, which 840 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: back to your point on radio is another thing that 841 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: I love. It feels much more one to want at 842 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: mass when you think about radio, I'm excited about it 843 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: because personalized experiences for people for a big CpG scaled 844 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: company that has household penetration is really hard to conceptualize. 845 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: So we needed the data and we needed the personalization 846 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: ability to activate behind it, and we're starting to do that. 847 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: So let's go to the other side of it. Creative. 848 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: Do you have a success that you think about that 849 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: you admire that came off just share creativity. Somebody had 850 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: a brilliant idea and just did it. This is gonna 851 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 1: sound massively simple, which I guess sometimes the best ideas are. 852 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: Our Cheerios team has done some amazing work over the years, 853 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: and that business has been on fire the last couple 854 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: of years. They have really started to embrace this benefit 855 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: that's always existed in the brand, which has been about 856 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: heart health. It's very simple thing that the marketing teams 857 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: and the research developments came back with. It's like, hey, 858 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: did you know that we can actually make cheerios in 859 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: the shape of hearts. They launched this idea which is 860 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: just all around like heart shaped cheerios and against super 861 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: simple creative idea what had an amazing impact on the 862 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: business and an action like that then allowed us to 863 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: lock all sorts of different ways and creative and content 864 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: and partnerships and ways to make people who are wanting 865 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: to extend their lives longer and live a healthier life 866 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: do it in a way that the product brought it 867 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: fully around that. To me, it is a great push 868 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: in to creativity and done really simply in a really 869 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: elegant way. Was really cool, Brad. Great conversations, even though 870 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: it's by phone. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so 871 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: much for having me. I love talking to you. I 872 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Here are a few things I picked 873 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: up in my conversation with Brad. One build your business 874 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: for today and tomorrow. At a company with a huge 875 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: legacy like General Mills, you need to make sure you're 876 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: meeting today's demand while preparing for tomorrow's marketplace to connect 877 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: with consumers you already have. When Brad learned that video 878 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: gamers already liked the Totino's brand, he marketed directly to 879 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: them and sales grew even bigger. Three higher people who 880 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: are connectors, as Brad says, you need creative and analytical 881 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: types on every team. But don't forget to have people 882 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: who can bring everyone together. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. 883 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening 884 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. 885 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to 886 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling are Wonderful Talent, which 887 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: is no small feat. Nikki Eatore for pulling research bill plaques, 888 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, 889 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: and of course Gayl Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and 890 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until 891 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: next time, h