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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from Hastaff

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Speaker 1: Work stock Yard and welcome to tech stuff, be Jonathan Strand.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Focam. I don't I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: play now, I don't know. I'm sorry. Well, today, obviously

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the Pirate Bay, one

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Speaker 1: of the most blocked sites on the Internet. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I know it's a little early for talk like a

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Speaker 1: Pirate Day by more than a month, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't resist really, I mean, they called themselves the

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Speaker 1: Pirate Bay. Their logo is a pirate ship sailing on

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Speaker 1: the high seas. There may be one or two moments

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Speaker 1: where I cannot resist the urge to speak in a

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Speaker 1: stereotypical pirate voice, which is, by the way, not the

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Speaker 1: way pirates talked, and not really Swedish either. Oh that's

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Speaker 1: another point. So the Pirate Bay is a Swedish website.

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Speaker 1: It is run mostly by Swedish people, and and we

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Speaker 1: we do not know the Swedish language. We are we

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Speaker 1: are going to make a very earnest attempt at pronunciating.

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Speaker 1: Pronunciating that was This is off to a terrific start. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So one first thing, this is way earlier than when

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Speaker 1: we normally record our show, so we're coping with that

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Speaker 1: right now too. We are going to be speaking some

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Speaker 1: words that are in Scandinavian, including people's names, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to try to pronounce them as closely to the

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Speaker 1: actual pronunciation as possible. But know that we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: mangling stuff because mostly our knowledge of Swedish comes from

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Speaker 1: the Swedish chef, yeah, from the Muppets, So which is

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Speaker 1: not We do make a solemn promise that except for

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Speaker 1: this moment right now, we will not follow anything with work, work,

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Speaker 1: work and then throw utensils in the air well. I'll

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Speaker 1: be throwing utensils in the air well. Utensils may be flying,

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Speaker 1: but the work work work thing, apart from that second

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Speaker 1: one that I said was not going to happen, it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna happen again, all right, Right, So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the part of bit. Yeah, so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a big thing. It is. It is one of the

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Speaker 1: most heavily trafficked sites on the Internet. It has so much,

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Speaker 1: so many torrents, all of the torrents, right, and of

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Speaker 1: course we just did an episode about bit torrent and

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Speaker 1: how bit torrent works. So for a large part of

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Speaker 1: this conversation, we're really going to be focusing on the

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Speaker 1: story of the Pirate Bay and we're not gonna concentrate

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Speaker 1: too much on the technology, although that will come into

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Speaker 1: play it parts. But as the Pirate Bay has updated,

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Speaker 1: UM has started making use of newer technologies than we

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Speaker 1: were talking about in the bit torrent episode. Right But

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Speaker 1: if you want to know basically how bit torrent works,

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Speaker 1: just go listen to the episode that we published immediately

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Speaker 1: before this one. I believe that's the one that should

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Speaker 1: be airing before this one, and then you can catch up,

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Speaker 1: uh and and know that that's the basic technology that

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Speaker 1: underlies at least the early days of the Pirate Bay UM,

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Speaker 1: which which has a big deal that they're about to

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Speaker 1: celebrate their tenth anniversary in September. I believe they're holding

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Speaker 1: their tenth anniversary party on August tenth, which is like

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Speaker 1: two days from when we're recording this. It will have

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Speaker 1: already happened by the incredible future that you listened to

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Speaker 1: this episode, So tell us how it was, because UM,

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Speaker 1: right now we just know how it will be. That's

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Speaker 1: going to happen in Stockholm right now. Five d and

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Speaker 1: fifty four people have r s VPD on Facebook, which

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Speaker 1: is about UM seventy thousand more people than the venue

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Speaker 1: that they have set up can accept. UM and I

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Speaker 1: suspect that most of those are are just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you go, pirate baby excitement. Would I would? This is

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Speaker 1: just me thinking outside the box here. If I were

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Speaker 1: to attend an event held by a website that has

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Speaker 1: been prosecuted successfully as we'll discover for UH, for assisting

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Speaker 1: in the theft of intellectual property, and had been under

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Speaker 1: intense scrutiny from numerous law enforcement agencies, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: I would use Facebook to say yes, I want to

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Speaker 1: go to this place. Just thinking about, you know, being

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Speaker 1: tracked easily. I'm just you know, throwing that out there.

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Speaker 1: That is a thing to consider. But anyway, so let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what the pirate bay is and how

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Speaker 1: it got started UM also and and and kind of

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Speaker 1: talk about the reputation that the site has not only

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Speaker 1: among its users but among its critics. Right like correct

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Speaker 1: dot com wrote up a really a really humorous piece

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Speaker 1: UM that was not entirely kidding and and they said,

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Speaker 1: according to the r I, a pirate Bay rates somewhere

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Speaker 1: between Nazi dinosaurs and the League of Extraordinary Evil on

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Speaker 1: the global threat scale. Yeah, so this is a that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the perception I think that's out there in

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Speaker 1: the in the content creation industries. Oh sure, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a site that facilitates file sharing. Now,

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Speaker 1: on its face, file sharing is not necessarily various. It's

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Speaker 1: not illegal. It's not that it's stealing. It's a way

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Speaker 1: of getting its transmitting. Yeah. I mean, it's just sharing files, right,

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Speaker 1: that's all it is. It's when those files contain intellectual

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Speaker 1: property or our material that belongs to a party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that normally that party would sell that material or

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Speaker 1: otherwise make money off of it through licensing or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And the perception is that by sharing it, you are

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Speaker 1: essentially taking money out of that content creator's pocket. Um oh,

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Speaker 1: and I We've gone on quite a bit, and I've

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Speaker 1: meant to mention this at the very beginning. We are

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Speaker 1: going to do a two part series on this. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be The Pirate Bay is going to be a

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Speaker 1: two part episode so that we can really concentrate on

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Speaker 1: two different segments of the history of the Pirate Bay.

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Speaker 1: So this is part one, obviously, and Part two will

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Speaker 1: focus on taking it from the point where the legal

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Speaker 1: system really got involved up to present day, starting back

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Speaker 1: onto the very early days of the the Pirate Bay.

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Speaker 1: You have to go back to September fifteen, two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: and that was when the pirate based site was founded

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Speaker 1: by UH, an organization called Pierrot Byron UH. Pierrot Biron

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Speaker 1: is UH the anti copyright organization in Sweden UH, and

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Speaker 1: that was a group that was formed to kind of

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Speaker 1: just oppose the concept of copyright in general, and also

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Speaker 1: the anti Pierrot Biron group in Sweden, right right, there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of anti piracy lobbyists happening in Sweden

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Speaker 1: or lobbying happening in Sweden at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: and so and so, you know, they were just saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's another there's another side to this. UM. Pierrot Bidon

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Speaker 1: means Bureau of Piracy way right, So the Piracy Bureau

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Speaker 1: was very much opposed to this blanket approach to to

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Speaker 1: UH anti piracy and we're saying They were saying it,

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Speaker 1: there are there are things that are wrong with copyright law.

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Speaker 1: You know, they some people in this group feel that

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Speaker 1: copyright in general just should not even be a thing.

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Speaker 1: Many say, it's not that shouldn't be a thing. It's

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Speaker 1: that in its current form, it's a system that is

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Speaker 1: punishing people, uh to ridiculous levels, or it's really holding

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Speaker 1: back the ability of people to show creativity. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: this goes across all sorts of things, not just file sharing.

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Speaker 1: Let's say that you are someone who likes to remix

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Speaker 1: music and you are you're really talented, you make really

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Speaker 1: good remixes, and it's stuff that is that that that

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Speaker 1: resounds with people. People really enjoy it. They they seek

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Speaker 1: out your work. But because what you're doing is taking

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Speaker 1: the work of some other artists and then applying your

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Speaker 1: own talent to changing that, uh, there are there are

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Speaker 1: organizations that will go after you because they're saying you

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Speaker 1: don't have the right to that original work that you

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Speaker 1: took and then transformed it. Um. There's also all these

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Speaker 1: arguments about fair use and if it's transformative enough, does

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Speaker 1: that mean it's fair use of that material material? But

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Speaker 1: that's that's tip that's difficult stuff, right. It's something that

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Speaker 1: only gets determined if it goes to court. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like you can just say fair use and you're Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got to be able to defend that in a

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Speaker 1: court setting, and a lot of people can't. So this

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Speaker 1: has given rise to a culture not just in Sweden

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Speaker 1: but around the world, uh, to say that, you know this,

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Speaker 1: this is something that we really need to talk about

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Speaker 1: and not just have the government cater to enormous organizations

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Speaker 1: that spend millions or even billions of dollars to lobby

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Speaker 1: the government officials and say, look, let's let's protect this.

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Speaker 1: Let's make copyright ninety six years now after the original

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Speaker 1: creation of the work and um, and then the other

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Speaker 1: side says, is that really necessary? I mean, how long

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Speaker 1: does this protection have to last before you can say

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Speaker 1: this belongs to the world. So this is it's not

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Speaker 1: a dialogue because both sides have extremists who tend to

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Speaker 1: dominate the conversation. It's not that the extremists make up

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Speaker 1: the majority of the population, but they are the loudest

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Speaker 1: and they tend to end up being the ones that

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Speaker 1: everyone associates with. Those organizations, so things like the Recording

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Speaker 1: Industry Association of America the r A double A is

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Speaker 1: representative of content creators. And then the most hardcore pirates

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Speaker 1: are the most quotable things. But you know, most of

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Speaker 1: us tend to fall somewhere in the middle, and some

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Speaker 1: of us are well, we'll get into that discussion towards

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Speaker 1: the end. We can talk about our own personal kind

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Speaker 1: of perspectives. So Pirate based starts in two thousand three, right,

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Speaker 1: that was kind of the whole purpose of it was

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Speaker 1: to create a file sharing service that used the bit

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Speaker 1: torrent protocol that was there in Sweden that could have

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Speaker 1: uh that the folks in Pierrot Bran would have the

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Speaker 1: control over, so that they could end up supporting it

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Speaker 1: and not just have it disappear. And the founders included

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Speaker 1: uh pater Sunda whose handle was broke Up, uh friedrich

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Speaker 1: Nay Tiamo Tiamo Yeah, and Goldfried's vat holm Vari who

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Speaker 1: was Annakata, and they wanted to create the Scandinavian bit

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Speaker 1: torrent community. They started off by saying that they had

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Speaker 1: a very simple policy really, which was that this site

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Speaker 1: is for you to be able to share stuff. We

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Speaker 1: don't care what it is. We don't really want you

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Speaker 1: to care what it is. If you know, if you

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Speaker 1: find stuff on there that you don't like, don't report

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Speaker 1: it to us. We're not going to take it down, right.

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Speaker 1: They're essentially saying, we built this road system for you

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Speaker 1: to drive on. We don't care what you put in

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Speaker 1: your car. We don't care what you bring back in

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Speaker 1: your car. We don't want to know what's in a car.

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Speaker 1: All we're doing is providing you the ability to get

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Speaker 1: from point A to point B and back again. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you know that that's a that's a policy

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Speaker 1: that they have stressed time and time again and used

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Speaker 1: as a defense as well. Absolutely, because you know what

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Speaker 1: when some uh, when some content that isn't only under

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Speaker 1: copyright but but is but is controversial and controversial in

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Speaker 1: another way. Um, there's a lot of pornography that happens

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Speaker 1: on on or that has classically happened pirate bay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of like a lot of the stuff

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Speaker 1: that you can find, the torrents that you can find

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Speaker 1: on pirate Bay relate back to material that is either

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Speaker 1: controversial or illegal in some places, and not just because

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Speaker 1: it may be stolen or you know, intellectual property that

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Speaker 1: doesn't belong to the person who's sharing it, but because

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Speaker 1: the actual content. Um, they will remove files if UM,

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Speaker 1: if the name and the content don't match up, right, So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, they want you to be straight up

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Speaker 1: with whatever the torrent is supposed to be. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: if if I upload a copy of Jurassic Park, or

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Speaker 1: I say it's a copy of Jurassic Park, but it

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Speaker 1: turns out it's actually Howard the Duck, then they would

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Speaker 1: remove that torrent because it was improperly improperly labeled or

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Speaker 1: improperly uh presented and uh and people would end up

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Speaker 1: missing out on the great cinematic masterpiece it was Howard

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Speaker 1: the Duck. Or or if there's malware that is not

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Speaker 1: just Howard the Duck, right, right, Let's say that I

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Speaker 1: uploaded a file that says it's Jurassic Park, but in

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Speaker 1: fact it's a virus design to create an entire botan

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Speaker 1: net zombie army that I'm going to control so I

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Speaker 1: can attack another companies, you know, servers that would be

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Speaker 1: taken down, not because I was playing on attacking those servers,

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Speaker 1: but because it wasn't. So it's not an ethical thing.

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Speaker 1: It's more like we just want people to be able

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Speaker 1: to get the stuff that they are searching for, So

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Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with the ethics of the

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Speaker 1: actual whatever that piece of content. It's just accuracy that

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Speaker 1: they're concerned with. But so, but so, the very first uh,

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Speaker 1: the pirate base server. And I'm still not I don't

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Speaker 1: know the language t PBB is probably I probably just

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Speaker 1: I usually just say pirate Bay. I even leave off

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Speaker 1: the rebel um. The very first server to host it

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Speaker 1: was located in Mexico. This server belonged to a company

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Speaker 1: that that Gottfried was working for. And um that that

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Speaker 1: original server is now in a computer museum in a Lynching, Sweden,

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Speaker 1: which has has created this. They took off one of

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Speaker 1: the original walls of it and then scripted it, you know,

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Speaker 1: so that people could see inside. This was the original

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Speaker 1: pirate uh. And and there's a there's a little history

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Speaker 1: that is currently unscripted in that glass now that that

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Speaker 1: talks about, uh, the significance of it. And yes, it

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Speaker 1: was a revolution that began in a dark gray metal

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Speaker 1: box under a bed if according to one of the

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Speaker 1: sources I read, it's specifically had a seller on one

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Speaker 1: point three giga Hurts processor with two d fifty six

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Speaker 1: megabytes of RAM, and that was the bit torrent tracker. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you've listened to our bit Torrent episode, you know,

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Speaker 1: the tracker is essentially kind of like the traffic controller.

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Speaker 1: It's when it when you get a request for a

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Speaker 1: specific kind of file. It is sort of what allows

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Speaker 1: the software to know what other computers in that network

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Speaker 1: host that file. So that was the first one. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It eventually moved from Mexico over to Sweden and um

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Speaker 1: it you know, things were kind of moving along this way.

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Speaker 1: It was getting the pretty popular pretty quickly, especially within Sweden,

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Speaker 1: but the real breakout would happen shortly thereafter. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand four, that's when the Pirate Bay grew

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Speaker 1: to more than one million peers. Now piers are the

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Speaker 1: computers within the network that are hosting files, right, so, um,

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Speaker 1: you know they're not hosting all the files, they're hosting

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Speaker 1: whichever files the users are interested in for their particular use,

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Speaker 1: but if they remain connected to the network, then those

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Speaker 1: files can then be downloaded by other users. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: were more than sixty thou torrent files at that point,

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Speaker 1: and it was interesting that the Pirate Bay founders discovered

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Speaker 1: something that that surprised them. They saw that eight of

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Speaker 1: the traffic that was coming to the Pirate Bay came

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Speaker 1: not from the Scandinavian countries that came from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world, and that's when they realized, wow, this

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Speaker 1: thing and that was one year after they had founded Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so so this at this point, you know the purpose

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Speaker 1: of the site originally was to create this bit torrent

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Speaker 1: file sharing service within Scandinavia. There was never any intent

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Speaker 1: and those days for it to become something larger than that.

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Speaker 1: But the way the internetworks, it's a global network of networks.

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Speaker 1: So as people discovered that there was this resource for

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Speaker 1: getting uh you know, thousands of different types of files

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Speaker 1: across multiple categories, you know, music, television, move movies, text files,

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Speaker 1: video games, all sorts of stuff was being shared on

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Speaker 1: through this this system. The the popularity began to explode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had to add a bunch of new servers that year,

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Speaker 1: um as they were relocating to Sweden. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: also when the Pirate base split from being run by

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Speaker 1: Pierrot Biron and became run by quote unquote dedicated individuals.

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Speaker 1: They they've been a little bit um uh secretive about

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Speaker 1: who exactly has been. I mean, they realized that what

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Speaker 1: they were doing was potentially problematic, even if they didn't

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Speaker 1: think it was illegal. They knew that people would come

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Speaker 1: after them, absolutely because of the nature of the files

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Speaker 1: that were being shared, even though again their their position was, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know we sure we call ourselves the Pirate Bay,

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Speaker 1: and sure we advocate the the file sharing, and sure

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Speaker 1: we advocated even if it's intellectual property. But we're not

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Speaker 1: the ones putting it up there, We're just facilitating it.

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Speaker 1: They were. They were political activists. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: that they knew what they were doing. Yeah, heah, and

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Speaker 1: boy that the story gets so much more complicated when

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Speaker 1: we get into the illegal stuff. But yeah, that this

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Speaker 1: also freed Peter Beran up right. They no longer had

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Speaker 1: to administer this site, which was growing and becoming more

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Speaker 1: of a full time gig, and so instead the organization

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Speaker 1: went on to focus on debating copyright issues within the

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Speaker 1: Swedish government rather than maintaining a file sharing site. So

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Speaker 1: that was, um, you know, really early on, like you said,

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Speaker 1: one year after it had been founded, it had already

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Speaker 1: grown so large that the founding organization was like, we

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Speaker 1: should probably hand this off so that we can focus

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Speaker 1: on what we want to do and not be distracted

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Speaker 1: by running a service. Moving up to two thousand five,

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Speaker 1: that's when the Pirate Baby got a redesign and was

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Speaker 1: became available in multiple languages, because they, you know, they

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Speaker 1: would said, well, we've got the whole world coming to us,

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Speaker 1: we should start to cater to them, so that, uh,

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Speaker 1: to make it more possible for them to use our serve. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're peddling not files, We're peddling a philosophy,

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Speaker 1: and that philosophy should be open to the entire world.

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Speaker 1: So by the end of the year, that side had

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Speaker 1: more than two point five million users, and that was

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Speaker 1: about the time when some folks out on California A

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Speaker 1: Hollywood and the record industry both started taking notice and um,

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Speaker 1: I think serving them with them takedown notices, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, the pirate base response to take down notices

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Speaker 1: is essentially this, Yeah, alright, getting back into the piracy

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Speaker 1: I was I was just going to note that that usually, um,

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Speaker 1: they are a little bit more snarky than you're. Extremely

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Speaker 1: loud laugh just right. I was just summing it up. Yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: they have been very vocal and very not politically correct

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Speaker 1: in their responses and saying, uh, no, we are not

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Speaker 1: taking down our service, and what a going to do

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Speaker 1: about it, Yeah, and come at me, bro, that's essentially

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Speaker 1: their response. Um, or they just ignore it, that's the

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Speaker 1: other choice. So all right, so this sets up what

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Speaker 1: is going to become the legal the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: legal portion of our episode about the Pirate Bay. But

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Speaker 1: before we get into that, we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: very quick break. Alright, we're back. So two thousand five,

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Speaker 1: two thoour Big Years. Two thousand six, something pretty major

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Speaker 1: happens to the Pirate Bay. Right, the Swedish police rated

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Speaker 1: their data center, one of their data centers in Stockholm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sixty five Swedish police officers raid the data center in Stockholm, Sweden,

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Speaker 1: and uh, they had this very specific job, right, Their

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Speaker 1: job was to shut down the pirate base servers. And uh, well,

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Speaker 1: one of those founders, Frederick, kind of learned that something

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Speaker 1: something was up in the middle of this. He got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a little birdie told him that

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Speaker 1: perhaps he might need to take some measures to prevent

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Speaker 1: something I'm happening to the site. Yeah, he um made it,

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Speaker 1: made it, stopped for a couple of minutes to make

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Speaker 1: a full backup of the site, and then trotted on

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Speaker 1: down to the data center to see what was up

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Speaker 1: and was you know, greeted by sixty five Swedish police officers.

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Speaker 1: And had he not stopped for those couple of minutes

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Speaker 1: to make that backup, um, this story might go very

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Speaker 1: differently because because as it turned out, that happened on

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Speaker 1: My thirty, two thousand and six, they had the site

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Speaker 1: back up by June three. Yeah, they had a backup

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Speaker 1: online hosts one, a news server in the Netherlands, and

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Speaker 1: the founders renamed the site temporarily the Police Bay. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They were essentially saying, ha ha, you tried to get us,

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Speaker 1: and look, you shouldst down for three days, for three

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Speaker 1: whole days, for seventy two hours, and then we're back.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it was I think it was really

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Speaker 1: thanks to Frederick's um uh foresight of making that copy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the logo they ended up changing that temporarily

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Speaker 1: again to a part ship that was firing cannonballs at

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Speaker 1: Hollywood at the Hollywood Sign. Yeah, and then eventually they

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Speaker 1: changed it again so that it kind of looked like

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Speaker 1: a phoenix, which of course is the mythical bird that

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Speaker 1: every now and then bursts into flames and parishes and

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Speaker 1: then a new from dashes. Yeah. So they're again they're

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Speaker 1: saying like you can, you can try and kill us,

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Speaker 1: but we'll just come right back. That was the message

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Speaker 1: they were sending. And the media loved this story o. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and also they pointed out happily they happily pointed

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Speaker 1: out that because of this police action and because of

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Speaker 1: the media response to everything that was going on their site,

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Speaker 1: traffic exploded. Yeah. So essentially, the other message they gave

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Speaker 1: was every time you try and take action against us,

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Speaker 1: you're just bringing more traffic to us. So really, every

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Speaker 1: time you try and stop us, you're making mate unquote

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Speaker 1: problem worse. Yeah, so uh not credit does that message

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Speaker 1: make the organization stop? So moving up to two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: that's when the pirate base starts to really look around

381
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Speaker 1: and say, what can we do to prevent us ROUM

382
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Speaker 1: having to deal with this, you know, problem of a

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Speaker 1: government coming in and shutting us down because it's kind

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Speaker 1: of irritating, not that it's gonna stop us, but it

385
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Speaker 1: slows us down. And it would wouldn't it be nice

386
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Speaker 1: if we could locate our servers someplace beyond the reach

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Speaker 1: of law. So how can we do that? How could

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Speaker 1: we get to the point where no government could come

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Speaker 1: after us. Well, if we form our own country, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what if we What if we just you know, bought

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Speaker 1: an island somewhere, declared ourselves a sovereign nation. Let removed

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Speaker 1: ourselves from pretty much any other government influence, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, operated out of there. Wouldn't that work. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a look online, see if you know, in Craig's list,

395
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Speaker 1: if there any if anyone's selling like a major island

396
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Speaker 1: or something. And it turns out, yeah, there was a

397
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Speaker 1: there was an old British naval platform out in the

398
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Speaker 1: North Sea, Yeah, called called renamed Sea Land. Originally it

399
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Speaker 1: was just a naval platform, a military platform that the

400
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Speaker 1: British Navy had pretty much abandoned after World War Two,

401
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Speaker 1: and um Major Patty Roy Bates, a former UH Navy

402
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Speaker 1: man himself, I believe, decided them, Hey, you know what,

403
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Speaker 1: I am disenchanted with life under any other governmental system.

404
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Speaker 1: So what I plan on doing is taking my boat

405
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Speaker 1: out to Sea Land and claiming it as my own

406
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Speaker 1: sovereign nation. And that's what he did. That was back

407
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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, So he proclaimed to the state,

408
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Speaker 1: and he created his own passports, he created his own currency,

409
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Speaker 1: and he declared himself Prince Roy, now, to which the

410
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: British Royal Navy a year later in said no, no,

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Speaker 1: get off, that's ours, and uh judge said that, um no,

412
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Speaker 1: you can't do that because you abandoned it. And that

413
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Speaker 1: platform is outside of English international waters, so it's outside

414
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Speaker 1: of jurisdiction. So technically Prince Roy has it. Yeah, we

415
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: have to cite the old law that was made shortly

416
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Speaker 1: after the Magna Carta was in twelve fifteen finders versus

417
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Speaker 1: keepers and as it turns out, the finders win in

418
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Speaker 1: this one. Um the Yeah, so Prince Roy was essentially

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Speaker 1: still allowed to stay there because it was territorial waters

420
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Speaker 1: outside of the British control. Now, since then the UK

421
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Speaker 1: has changed how far out their international waters, but they

422
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Speaker 1: can't retroactively claim it according to court cases. And that

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Speaker 1: is how Prince Roy's son, Prince Michael wound up putting

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Speaker 1: the island up for sale. Yeah. He says, well, you

425
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Speaker 1: know this one, this is mine. We have established by

426
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Speaker 1: law that this belongs to me and and through primo geniture,

427
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Speaker 1: I own this. My father has given me the rulership

428
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: of this island. I can sell it if I want to. Yeah,

429
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: so the sale goes up and uh and and Pirate

430
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: Bay is one of the bidders for this island. However,

431
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: Pirate Bay does not ever white seal the deal, so

432
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: it never goes through. The Pirate Bay ends up abandoning

433
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: the plan to purchase Sea Land, which kind of unfortunate

434
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: because I think the rest of this podcast would just

435
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: be us talking about how weird it would be to

436
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: have a navy platform as your sovereign state and that

437
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: only the Pirate Bay is there. That would be kind

438
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: of a cool conversation. Unfortunately, that's not how it turned out.

439
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: So uh, that same year that they were looking at

440
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: purchasing Sea Land, that's you remember us. Back in two

441
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: thousand seven, there was an interesting report hackers leaked emails

442
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: that came from the anti piracy company Media Defender that

443
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: showed that Media Defender had considered hiring hackers to attack

444
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: Pirate Bay servers. So at this point, the para base

445
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: like you bring it on, guys. I mean, clearly you

446
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: you're afraid of us, and you should be, and you

447
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: are willing to take action outside of the legal system. Yeah, exactly,

448
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: like like you you say that we are are underhanded

449
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: and illegal and that the stuff we do is terrible

450
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: and is costing people billions of dollars. Meanwhile, you are

451
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: willing to engage in tactics that are outside the law

452
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: to pursue your own agenda. So who is the bad

453
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: guy here? Huh again, I am paraphrasing. Yes, I don't

454
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: think that we could actually repeat much of the language

455
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: that they use on the show. No, because it's on

456
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: Swedish and we've already established that I can't speak it.

457
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: Two thousand and eight, the r I double A goes

458
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: after the Pirate Bay. Yeah, they put down their official suit.

459
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: They were speaking thirteen million dollars in damages for thirty

460
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: four cases of copyright infringement. Right now. Cracked that which

461
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: you had referred to earlier ended up breaking this down

462
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: as saying that if you take the thirteen million and

463
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: you take the thirty four cases of copyright infringement, that

464
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: essentially means that every file is worth more than three

465
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: and eighty thousand dollars, which means that if you were

466
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: to apply the dollar per file cost to all the

467
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: torrents that we're being uh traded, all the files that

468
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: are being traded uh and facilitated by the pirate Bay,

469
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: because remember the pirate Bay does not host these files,

470
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: they're facilitating the trading. But if you were to apply

471
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: that to all the files that were being traded across

472
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: the pirate Bay, that would mean that it would be

473
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 1: about forty six times more money than actually exists in

474
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: the entire world, according to Crack. Now, Lauren, I think

475
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: you had some issue with this. Well, well, yeah, I mean,

476
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm their their math works out, but you know they

477
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: were talking about about, you know, thirteen million divide by

478
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: thirty four equals the value of each piece of media

479
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: that um that is being traded, and then switches to

480
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: saying that that that's the value for every single download.

481
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: So that's not that's not, that's that's not It's still funny. Yeah,

482
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: and their points still stands, But that's that. And it's

483
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: not that we haven't seen cases of r I double

484
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: A going after people who have downloaded files and seeking

485
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: out enormous sums and damages and and for the most part,

486
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: I imagine that this tactic is to not not to

487
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: try and get money from the particular person they're going after,

488
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: but rather to scare everybody into not engaging in piracy,

489
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: which is pretty effective, you know, or some semi effective

490
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: for some individuals, until until you get to people who

491
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: are like, well, find it's a weird and underhanded and

492
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: makes me all squiggly inside. You know, you know it's

493
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: it's I yeah. And one also goes into feeding into

494
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: the argument that really does not have any it's not substantive. Right.

495
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: There's an argument that says, uh, every time someone steals

496
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: a file, so when copies of file we are out

497
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: of sale, we are we are losing that nine bucks

498
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: for the CD or whatever it is, which you cannot

499
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: prove at all. And in fact, there have been multiple

500
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: reports that have said the damages sought by companies UH

501
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: as a reaction to their work being pirated and distributed

502
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: across the internet have no basis in any sort of

503
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: quantifiable reality. It's not that it's not that that they

504
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: don't exist, it's just that you can't put a number

505
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: on it because there's no way to determine what the

506
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: actual damages are. And and also that pirateateurs buy more

507
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: online music than your average person. There's been a lot

508
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: of reports that show that as well, that show that

509
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: there's a link between those who engage in piracy and

510
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: those who spend more money on entertainment as a result.

511
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: Maybe they use piracy to sample something and they think

512
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: I want to either support this particular endeavor or maybe

513
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: it's I want access to a better quality copy of

514
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Um. You know, it all depends upon

515
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: the individual obviously, but at any rate, the industry does

516
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: not look at it that way. The industry looks at

517
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: as you know, people are stealing our stuff and we're

518
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: going to stop it. So, uh, that was the you know,

519
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: ur I double a going after them. Now that that's

520
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: just the first and many court cases that will uh

521
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: that affected the pirate Bay. The big one is still

522
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: coming up, but we'll be covering that in episode two. Anyway,

523
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, something else really controversial happened, uh,

524
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: And there was another court case that didn't involve copyright law,

525
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with intellectual property that it had

526
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: something to do with other content and it wasn't a

527
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: court case, I should correct myself. There there's no court

528
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: case that's involved in this. It was more of a

529
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: kind of a public exchange between different parties involved. So

530
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: what happened was there was a Swedish criminal case that

531
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: involved the murder of two children. Uh. And in Sweden,

532
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: the files related to a criminal case become public record

533
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: once the criminal case goes to trial, so anyone can

534
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: request a copy of the files that relate to a

535
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: criminal case once it goes to trial. In this case,

536
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: the file included autopsy photos of the two murdered children.

537
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: Someone requested that and then uploaded it as a torrent

538
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,239
Speaker 1: to the pirate Bay, meaning anyone could get hold of it. Uh.

539
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: The father of the two children asked the Pirate Bay

540
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: to take down the torrent, and the pirate base response

541
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: was no. Now the a more detailed response. First of all,

542
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: one of the moderators of the pirate Bay was really

543
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: awful to the father, and in fact, the so awful

544
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: that the Pirate Bay founders actually addressed that, which is

545
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: pretty incredible because usually they don't say anything about like

546
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: there's no there's not even a budging on saying like

547
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: we did something wrong here. Yeah, well they do. I

548
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: they have, they have addressed to the public um their

549
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: personal opinions on each other from time to time, and

550
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: they they don't don't refrain from that. Yes, uh so

551
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: so this sounds to me and and I didn't actually

552
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: read about it. But it sounds a little bit to

553
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: me like um, like when Tico of Penny Arcade goes like, oh,

554
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: Gabe just said this thing that was really loud. Right, Well,

555
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: so in this case, what what happened was they said, uh,

556
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: you know that was that was an improper response, and

557
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: for that we are sorry, but we're not bringing the

558
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: media because it's it's a it's a matter of public record.

559
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: And in fact, they point out that the prosecutor could

560
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: have requested the autopsy photos, for example, to be removed

561
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: from the file before it went into the public record,

562
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: but he didn't do that or she didn't do that.

563
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: I don't know the gender of the prosecutors. So, um,

564
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: so you know, their their point was that we're not

565
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: responsible for what was in that file, but that file

566
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: is a matter of public record, which we believe means

567
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: that anyone should have access to it, and we don't.

568
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: We don't as long as the Torrent file refers to

569
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: whatever the continents, whether or not it's cool, it goes up.

570
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: It goes up because we don't send us We don't

571
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: since our users. Um. And so he's said, all the

572
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: people you should be upset about are upset at, are

573
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: the murderer who did this, and the court system that

574
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: allowed for that information to be included. Don't be upset

575
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: with us because all we did was allowed this to happen.

576
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: And as kind of a twisting of the knife here,

577
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: terrible frame, terrible word for this, but but really I

578
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: mean this, this was part that Like, that was enough

579
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: I thought to address this. But they go a little

580
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: further and say, also, before you brought this up, only

581
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: about a hundred people had ever access this. After you did,

582
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: more than twenty thousands of people ended up because then

583
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: they heard about it, and then they had that they

584
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: had that kind of grim curiosity, and so that led

585
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: to a bunch of people downloading, and before it had

586
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: been fewer than a hundred people. So I don't think

587
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: that was necessary. Arely something that needed to be said,

588
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: although I guess it does tell people like, if you're

589
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: upset about something being on the pirate Bay, be quiet,

590
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: don't make a big stink about it, because that just

591
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: means more people are gonna do it, all right. And

592
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: also I'm sure that that feeds into their general um,

593
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, statement of don't don't stir the nest, you know,

594
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: like like we see this is very interesting to me

595
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: because in a way, this is the other side of

596
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: the coin of what the music industry and moving industry

597
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: are doing. They use scare tactics to try and get

598
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: people to stop pirating by threatening these huge lawsuits with

599
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: enormous damages. That's financially trying to intimidate people to stop pirating. Meanwhile,

600
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: you've got the piracy folks saying, hey, if you complain

601
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: about it, just more people are gonna pirate. So they're

602
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: using scare tactics to shut up the other side. So again,

603
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: both sides are using similar strategies and they like I

604
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: think that's part of the point that the Pirate Bay

605
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: is trying to make by releasing these statements. Is also

606
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: kind of like, this is publicity. Downloads are publicity, Attention

607
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: is publicity, and if if only you would make your

608
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: your copyrighted material available to people to purchase, they would

609
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: probably do so. I feel like that's part of the

610
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: message that that all of all of that controversy. It's interesting.

611
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: See I don't think that's I think it's true what

612
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: you said. And we'll get into more of that in

613
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: the second half. Okay, maybe not maybe not paid up

614
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 1: beat on themselves. But but I think that that is okay. Now,

615
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: I was totally attributing my own personal opinion, an opinion

616
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: to which I subscribed, by the way, I just don't

617
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: necessarily think that's part of their philosophy. Um. Anyway, that's

618
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: that's that's a good discussion that we'll have in the

619
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: second episode. So we're gonna wrap this half up. So

620
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: we're we've gotten up through two thousand eight. We'll pick

621
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: up in two thousand nine for part two, and we'll

622
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: talk more about, you know what, what has happened to

623
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: the Pirate Base since a massive lawsuit was leveled against them,

624
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 1: and what could be the future of the Pirate Bay.

625
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: It's kind of an interesting question and also kind of

626
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: a where are they now for the Parate Bay founders.

627
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: So join us for that. And remember, if you have

628
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: any suggestions for future episodes of tech stuff, whether it's

629
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: a company, an organization, a specific kind of technology, maybe

630
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: you want us to do one of another one of

631
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: those crazy episodes where we take a movie and we

632
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: totally rip it to shreds as far as uh it's

633
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: it's portrayal of technology and science. Tell us about moving. Yeah,

634
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: we've got a few suggestions already, and uh, y'all, Armageddon

635
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: is just not gonna happen. People have already torn that up. Okay,

636
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: maybe it'll happen, but it's not gonna happen soon anyway.

637
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: Let's not send us an email. Our address is tech

638
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: stuff at Discovery dot com, or find us on Facebook

639
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: or Twitter, or handle it both those locations. Is tech

640
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: Stuff hs W and Lauren and I will talk to you.

641
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: Release it for more on this and thousands of other topics.

642
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Speaker 1: Does it has stuff works dot com chees