1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

2
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome the Stuff to Blow your Mind.

3
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb. And hey, it's summer. People

4
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,319
Speaker 1: are on break. Uh, So we thought we'd rerun a

5
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: couple of episodes that we're really proud of that I

6
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: think has a lot of really insightful information about addiction.

7
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,160
Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's dive into the science of addiction.

8
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 1: Julie has returned to us from New York City once more.

9
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 1: It's true, you have returned from Laryngitisville. Yes, yes, for

10
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 1: the most part. Yeah, yeah, you're there. Um. Yes. When

11
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: I was in New York, I attended the World Science Festival,

12
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: which if you guys have never heard about it, you

13
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 1: should immediately well after this episode check it out because

14
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: they have some online offerings that are wonderful. Like when

15
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: I was there, I checked out this panel on something

16
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 1: called the craving brain. And that's what we're going to

17
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 1: talk about today, this idea of what addiction is and

18
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,640
Speaker 1: what it is not. So it's it's about the craving brain,

19
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 1: not craving brains. Not that. Yeah. No zombie content, as

20
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,119
Speaker 1: far as I know, is going to tumble forth from

21
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: our lips today because it's my understanding, if you showed

22
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,559
Speaker 1: up for this, uh, this talk expecting a light hireded

23
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: discussion about zombies, you would have been pretty disappointed. And

24
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 1: so that's what we're discussing in this episode. Addiction, the

25
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: science of addiction and uh and it's it's really fascinating

26
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,479
Speaker 1: this topic because for me, I had not really looked

27
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 1: into it. Before I had, I wouldn't say this just

28
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,279
Speaker 1: a surface level understanding of addiction, Like I was pretty

29
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,760
Speaker 1: to some of the science and some of the the

30
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: levels of deeper understanding involved in addiction research. But but

31
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 1: still it's so misunderstood at large in our culture even today. Yeah,

32
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 1: and I feel like we are only now getting a

33
00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: baseline understanding of it. And a lot of that has

34
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 1: to do with the in itself. We talked about this

35
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: all the time, like we still don't know exactly how

36
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 1: the brain works, and we have more of a clue

37
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 1: now than we did a hundred years ago or even

38
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Um, But the fact of the matter

39
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,639
Speaker 1: that addiction at large is still going to be something

40
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,960
Speaker 1: that we can't fully cover in depth, and in fact,

41
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 1: for us to do that, we would just have to

42
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: become the addiction podcast, so we could really um give

43
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: it its due day to talk about every single aspect.

44
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,760
Speaker 1: But what we want to talk about today is just

45
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 1: sort of like this, this idea of addiction in the

46
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 1: past and the present and what are some of the

47
00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:40,600
Speaker 1: driving conditions. So this idea of addictive substances, Um, you

48
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 1: go back far enough in history and you get into it.

49
00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to go far back in

50
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 1: history at all, where our culture is full of simplistic

51
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: examples of what's going on, simplistic explanations for what's going on.

52
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: You know, you can say, oh, well, that person is addicted.

53
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,959
Speaker 1: Clearly there's a flaw on their character, or that person

54
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: is addicted, there's a there you know, they're completely controlled

55
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 1: by this demonic substance. Or you can throw it to

56
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 1: environment and say, well, they're just not in a good

57
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: environment to uh you know, and that is what's making

58
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 1: them weak to this substance. And that's the thing too.

59
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,240
Speaker 1: It's often seen, even even among people who have a

60
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: better understanding it of it, it's seen as some sort

61
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 1: of of of a weakness of character, even though there

62
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,839
Speaker 1: that we have so much science to to argue differently. Yeah,

63
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,400
Speaker 1: there's this real need to blame someone or something when

64
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,919
Speaker 1: it comes to addiction. And so you had mentioned the substance, right, Oh,

65
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: it's the substance that is the problem that has deminutic,

66
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 1: demonic possession of the person. Well, if that were the case,

67
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 1: then everybody who ever put a bottle of whiskey to

68
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,120
Speaker 1: their lips would be addicted to whiskey. Right, So we

69
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: just know that that logic is faulty, and um, yes,

70
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: it's also looked at as a shortcoming in a person's

71
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 1: moral compass, you know, a lack of willpower. But finally

72
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,000
Speaker 1: we are beginning to understand addiction in terms of a disease,

73
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: with genetics and environment really playing into how the human

74
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 1: brain can change a person's behavior. Indeed, it's that disease

75
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: model of addiction that has really taken hold and become

76
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 1: our major means of understanding exactly what's going on, even

77
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 1: even though again that still hasn't quite seeped into every

78
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: uh you know, level of our culture in terms of

79
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 1: viewing addiction in those round us. Yeah, but I do

80
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 1: think that the more and more information that is um

81
00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 1: that's really given to the disease brain part, the more

82
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,720
Speaker 1: we can understand it as a disease like diabetes or

83
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 1: anything else that's sort of chronic. Um. But let's talk

84
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: really about what an addiction is, because when I think

85
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,239
Speaker 1: about it, I think about this irresistible urge to consume

86
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: a substance or engage in a behavior over and over again,

87
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,919
Speaker 1: even though I know it's going to cause me some

88
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: sort of problem later on. And it turns out there

89
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: are three dimensions to addiction. Craving kind of binging to

90
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 1: just in toxic intoxicating yourself, and three the withdrawal or

91
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 1: the negative effect. So you have to think about addiction

92
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 1: in that way. It's not just I really like uh

93
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: cremblay and so I eat that ten times a year.

94
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: It's that you can't stop eating kremblay even though you

95
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 1: keep throwing it up. Yeah. Yeah, there's some people, may

96
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, jokingly say oh I'm addicted to this, that

97
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 1: or the other. But unless it's unless're actually throwing up

98
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,360
Speaker 1: that crember lay again, you're you're you're probably not hitting

99
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,240
Speaker 1: all the other points in the addiction. So some of

100
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 1: the basics here that you you just alluded to. Um,

101
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,600
Speaker 1: we've discussed many times just in terms of what it

102
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,159
Speaker 1: is to be human. And that's that's one of the

103
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: interesting things about addiction is that is really tied in

104
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 1: with the human experience. Um. Because you mentioned the short

105
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 1: term goal versus short term vision versus long term problems.

106
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 1: You know that that that constant and ability in humans

107
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: to really decide on the on the long term benefit

108
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,839
Speaker 1: over the short come benefit benefit. And then the other

109
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: thing is that this is of course all um tied

110
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: in to the pleasure centers of of the in the

111
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: reward circuit about you know, in which we have neurotransmitters

112
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 1: of dopamine, and it's tied into the basic genetic mission

113
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 1: of the human creature. Right. Uh, we're getting getting this pleasure,

114
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 1: and the pleasure is a reward for things like eating, drinking, mating,

115
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 1: the very basic things that we have to check check

116
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,719
Speaker 1: off the list in terms to meet that genetic mission.

117
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: But when you layer up on you know, all the

118
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: complexity of cognitive evolution human culture, it gets more complicated.

119
00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,359
Speaker 1: So suddenly have all these other different activities that can

120
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 1: end up releasing dopamine. I mean everything from eating and

121
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 1: drinking and mating to going shopping. Studies of showing you

122
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: get that release sometimes even when you're you're you know,

123
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 1: donating to charity, uh, but also when you're engaging in

124
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: something like illicit drug use, or even even quote unquote

125
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: non illicit drug use, legal drug use, or or even

126
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: just a you know, a cup of coffee in the morning. Yeah.

127
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,480
Speaker 1: I mean to put it really simply, pleasure is tied

128
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,919
Speaker 1: into our survival. It's the way that our our bodies,

129
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 1: in our minds are wired. And so when you think

130
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: about these different things that we become addicted to, you

131
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 1: can kind of think about them in terms of supernormal stimuli.

132
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 1: And we talked about this how that has such a

133
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 1: pull on us, because that's that thing just kind of

134
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: like with lights blinking around it, saying, hey, this is awesome.

135
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 1: You should try me. If you get pleasure from me,

136
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: you should do it again. And in this way, you

137
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: could think of a drug as being a sort of

138
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: like heroine, being super normal stimuli, that sense of contentment

139
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: and pleasure that you would get. Um, your body doesn't

140
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,280
Speaker 1: know whether or not that's a good thing or a

141
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 1: bad thing. It just knows the feeling. So most drugs

142
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 1: activate this pleasure circuitry. This uh, this dopamine circuitry that

143
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. So we're talking alcohol, we're talking nicotine, heroin, cocaine,

144
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: uh amphetamines, cannabis. The only things that really don't make

145
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: this list are halluciniens, LSD and mescaline. And as a

146
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 1: side note, food can be an addiction to. But well,

147
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 1: we can talk about that pretty like any human behavior.

148
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 1: So let's say that you have, you know, a glass

149
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 1: of wine. There's that reward that occurs in the brain.

150
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 1: You get a flood of dopamine or I shouldn't say

151
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 1: a flood because it's not an actual flood, but you

152
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 1: get a significant amount or increase in the brain that

153
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: feels like a flood, and that strengthens the neural pathways

154
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: the memory of the behavior, making it far easier to

155
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,679
Speaker 1: recall the pleasure and then engage in that behavior again

156
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 1: and again. Yeah, this is interesting. One of the presenters

157
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,559
Speaker 1: at the World Science Festival mentioned nine eleven. The whole idea,

158
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,600
Speaker 1: you know, everyone knows or thinks thinks that thinks they

159
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,439
Speaker 1: know exactly what they were doing when nine eleven occurred,

160
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 1: like that strong memory, that that sort of pillar standing

161
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: up standing out from the landscape of our existing memories.

162
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 1: And drug memories are like that, nor a de alcohol.

163
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,680
Speaker 1: What's the presenter by the way. Um, But on one hand,

164
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 1: this this this sounds completely obvious, right, because when when

165
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 1: one is engaging in some some kind of drug, be

166
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 1: it a cup of coffee, a cigarette, wine, heroine, etcetera,

167
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 1: we're dealing with a heightened level level of pleasure and therefore,

168
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 1: conceivably that is a more memorable moment. Right. You're feeling

169
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: really good at that moment, and therefore your brain is

170
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 1: encoding that memory and all the very stimuli around it.

171
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: So it's not just I had a cigarette and a

172
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 1: cigarette was uh enjoyable and was pleasurable. But I had

173
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: a cigarette at a bar. I had a cigarette among

174
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,719
Speaker 1: this group of people, this song was playing. All this

175
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 1: stuff sort of gets encoded into the memory. Yeah, And

176
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,079
Speaker 1: that's the thing that makes us really complicated in the

177
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 1: sense because it's very hard to chease out the behavior

178
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 1: from the genetics, from the memory, from the environment. It's

179
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 1: almost like all of these have a bit of play

180
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: into addiction. And according to the National Institute of Health,

181
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,839
Speaker 1: you can see that with brain imaging technology that addiction

182
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: is disrupting specific brain circuits affected by addiction. And they

183
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,959
Speaker 1: say that this these changes go beyond the brain's rewards

184
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,439
Speaker 1: stem to include regions involved in memory learning, impulse control,

185
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: and we'll talk more about that later. Stress reactivity and

186
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: repeated drugg exposure resets these circuits toward compulsive behavior, so

187
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: that a person's control over the desire to seek and

188
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 1: use drugs is compromised, despite whatever consequences arise. So I

189
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 1: thought that was interesting. Again, it's not just the behavior,

190
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 1: it's that it's creating these kind of neural pathways, these

191
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,800
Speaker 1: sort of ghosts in the machine of your brain. So

192
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: even if you abstain from from drugs or that thing,

193
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,319
Speaker 1: you may still have triggers that would activate those pathways.

194
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We're discussing addiction, the science of addiction.

195
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: We've just finished talking about addiction. UM, what it is,

196
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: how it works, What are some of the basics, uh

197
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 1: in terms of our understanding of of of addiction from

198
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 1: a disease model standpoint. And UH, this leads to the

199
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: inevitable question who becomes addicted? Because we we've seen this,

200
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 1: We see this all the time in the world around this.

201
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 1: It's not an equal playing field. Addiction is not an

202
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: equally equal opportunity offender. Uh, some people have more of

203
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: a problem with it than others. And how do we

204
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 1: figure that out? Like what's going on there? We can't

205
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,520
Speaker 1: just say it's you know, God shooting lightning bolts of

206
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 1: addiction down at people and making uh, you know, packets

207
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,560
Speaker 1: of drugs land in front of some and not others.

208
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 1: I mean they're uh, just as addiction itself is a

209
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,280
Speaker 1: is more complex than that. Uh, who becomes an addict

210
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,839
Speaker 1: is also a fairly complex situation. Yeah, And of course

211
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 1: the older model would be, oh, it's the person who

212
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: has no will power, It's the person who just doesn't

213
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,240
Speaker 1: have any integrity. And we know this is not true.

214
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,480
Speaker 1: We know that addiction is not any one sort of

215
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: magic bullet um that arrives in a person's chest. You

216
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 1: could have a genetic disposition which would cause you to

217
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 1: have a blunted reaction to dopamine, and that would require

218
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,360
Speaker 1: more and more of the substance to produce the same

219
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 1: sense of pleasure in someone else. So in other words,

220
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: for me, um, I genetically have stuff um that has

221
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 1: to do with addiction in my family. So it maybe

222
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: maybe that I need uh six beers to your two

223
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 1: beers to have that same level of dopamine activity in

224
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 1: the brain in that sense of pleasure. So that's one

225
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 1: way that that a person might be become addicted because

226
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 1: they have circumstances in place. And then of course we

227
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: have um, you know the environment, um, how much stress

228
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,200
Speaker 1: is in that environment, and we also have the way

229
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 1: that the brain develops. So genetics, let's talk about this

230
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: real quick. Studies of identical twins indicate that as much

231
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 1: as half of an individual's risk of becoming addicted to nicotine, alcohol,

232
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 1: or other drugs depends on his or her genes and

233
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: twin studies on addiction don't reveal the full reaction range

234
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 1: of genotype, right, but they do indicate that under a

235
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:07,000
Speaker 1: particular and really relevant societal scenarios, genetype plays a substantial

236
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 1: role in your vulnerability. Is pretty impressive because that is

237
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 1: that is higher than some cancers in terms of how

238
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: much genetics is playing a role. Now, it's also not

239
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 1: as simple as saying, oh, well, here's the gene for addiction,

240
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: can we zapp that. No, it's it's more complicated than that.

241
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,080
Speaker 1: We are we're not at the point yet where we

242
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 1: can just say we can look at somebody and do

243
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: some sort of funny little scan or blood test and say, oh, well,

244
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,440
Speaker 1: this person is prone to addiction, although one day we

245
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 1: may be able to but of course that it's just

246
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 1: it's a hard thing to answer right now because UM,

247
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you were to scan a

248
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 1: child and say you would appear that you may become

249
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 1: addicted to something or you may have addictive behavior, part

250
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 1: of that environment is going to factor into that. UM.

251
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 1: So again it's just not that UM, you know, cut

252
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 1: and dried. So David Lyndon the neuroscience, as an author

253
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,959
Speaker 1: of the Compass of Pleasure UM, has some really good

254
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 1: information outfare about variants and genes that turned down the

255
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 1: function of dopamine signaling in the brain. If anybody wants

256
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,360
Speaker 1: to read more about that. UM, but we should probably

257
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: talk about environment and its stressors triggering self medicating behavior

258
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: because David Lyndon says that stress hormones are secreted by

259
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 1: your adrenal glands and that sits on top of your kidneys,

260
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 1: and they pass into your brain and they bind stress

261
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 1: hormone receptors on neurons in your pleasure circuit, and they

262
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: set in motion a series of biochemical steps that end

263
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: with you, say, having a bowl of ice cream or

264
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette, essentially anything that's pleasurable to try to

265
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 1: negate the stress chemical reaction happening in your body. Right,

266
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 1: and then we eventually end up encoding the habit right

267
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: where we associate feeling stressful with the release of having

268
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: that cigarette, that ice cream more of course, been in

269
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 1: Jerry's cigarette ice cream. Yeah, and we can. We'll talk

270
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more about habits later on. But then

271
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 1: you also have other conditions like you might have PTSD,

272
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: you might have depression or a d h D, and

273
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: those underlying factors could certainly ramp up this feeling of stress,

274
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 1: anxiety or depression. Um add to this, you have teenagers

275
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 1: who are beginning to take on some of these substances,

276
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 1: and their brains are pretty malleable. We know this. We

277
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,280
Speaker 1: know that the preventable cortex, for instance, the seat of judgment,

278
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: doesn't even really complete itself until the age of in

279
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 1: some cases much older. So we know already that teenagers

280
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 1: are at risk in the sense that they don't have

281
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: the sort of executive functions that might stop them from

282
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: engaging in risky, risky behavior. But moreover, there's some evidence that, say,

283
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 1: dabbling with nicotine with cigarettes could actually prepare their brains

284
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 1: to become more receptive to other substances. Yeah, this is

285
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 1: really interesting research because it deals impart with that idea

286
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: of of something as a gateway substance, as a gateway drug,

287
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 1: which is a term that has really lost a lot

288
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 1: of value, I feel, thanks to its overuse in drug

289
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 1: war campaigning, because because you know, we we all heard

290
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: this growing up. You know, this substance, this experience is

291
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 1: a gateway to other experiences. It's like you know, stepping

292
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 1: your your foot into the water and then that undertow

293
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: is gonna grab you and just drag you down through

294
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 1: worse and or drug experiences into some sort of ultimate doom.

295
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 1: And of course people's realities tend to be uh you know,

296
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: they say, oh, well, you know, don't smoke cigarettes. It's

297
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a gateway drug. And then what

298
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 1: when one eventually tries a cigarette and they realize, hey,

299
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: my life didn't just end. You know, I don't feel

300
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 1: the world collapsing around me. I don't feel that undertow

301
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: dragging me down. Therefore this can't be that bad, and

302
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: those they must have been just completely full of it

303
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: and trying to scare me with scare tactics into not

304
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: trying these things. So it's you know, reasons like that

305
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 1: that you end up throwing the idea of a gateway

306
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 1: drug out out the window. But the science behind this,

307
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 1: UH really argues in the favor of of cigarettes, particularly

308
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: serving as I almost don't want to stay gateway drive

309
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 1: because again that the term is so uh so bad.

310
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 1: But but but what is occurring here is that the

311
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: nicotine is essentially opening up the pathways, loosening the pathway

312
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 1: for addictive behavior with other substances. Yeah, according to UH

313
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,959
Speaker 1: neurobiologists a Mere Levine, and he was on the panel

314
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: of cocaine users smoked first in their teenage years, which

315
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,199
Speaker 1: is astounding. So he thought, well, is this is just

316
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, cause correlation here is there's something actually to this,

317
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: And so he and his colleagues began to look to

318
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: see if there are any long lasting changes in nicotine

319
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 1: use um in the formative years in the teenage years,

320
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: so whether they do. They applied mice with nicotine, followed

321
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 1: seven days later by cook cane and compared with mace

322
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: on cocaine who had not previously received nicotine, the animals

323
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,439
Speaker 1: were percent more active and seventy eight percent more likely

324
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 1: to return to areas previously associated with the cocaine. Yeah,

325
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: and the reverse did not hold true, that cocaine had

326
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,640
Speaker 1: no effect on nicotine induced behavior in the mice stepped

327
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: in the study. Right. So, um, this all has to

328
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: do with something called the fosph B gene, which is

329
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 1: related to addiction. And what we see is sort of

330
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,400
Speaker 1: a this is sort of Layman's terms. Are I'm gonna

331
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 1: get too deep into it. Um, Probably the best way

332
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 1: to say this is that there's a sort of a

333
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 1: greater expression of that gene, of that fosp by gene.

334
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: If as you say that, the pathways have been loosened

335
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,159
Speaker 1: by nicotine. So when cocaine comes along, Hey, look at this,

336
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 1: we we sort of know the drill. Here's what we're

337
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah. Yeah, it loosens up the DNA packaging system.

338
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 1: That's that's involved here, and it's in it and it

339
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 1: allows greater express action of that fospe gene. Now, the

340
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: added problem here is um, as we've talked about before,

341
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 1: the amygdala in teenagers has a heightened sense of fear

342
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 1: and a heightened sense of stress when you're a teenager.

343
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: And the magdala is so interesting to me because it

344
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 1: processes both physical pain and emotional pain. So if you're

345
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 1: a teenager and you're brooding, you really may feel like

346
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: life is terrible, life is ending, you're being hurt. Yeah,

347
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 1: we did that whole episode on the what I was

348
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 1: a teenage teenager? I think, yeah, I was a teenage teenager,

349
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 1: and so it was I think we had mentioned then,

350
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: So as an adult, do you hear a teenager talking

351
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: about this and you feel like they're just being histrionic

352
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 1: when in fact they are actually feeling that level of

353
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 1: pain and discomfort. Yeah, and there I think we discussed

354
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 1: in that that episode. And one of the things about

355
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 1: the teenager's brain is that from a you know, an

356
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: evolutionary standpoint, the teenager is primed to leave his or

357
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: her community and find a new community in which to thrive,

358
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: which means that there's an increased dependence on social pressures,

359
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: on fitting in with a social group, because that, in

360
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: an evolutionary sense, means survival and you know, to add

361
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: more fuel to the fire if you happen to be

362
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: that person who's whose genes dictate an amygdala in the

363
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: first place, that's more reactive to stress. Then you are

364
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: going to feel things a little bit stronger than your

365
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: average bear, both as a teenager, teenager and an adult.

366
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: So that makes dealing with environmental factors UH emotions a

367
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: lot harder. And you can see how people begin to

368
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: turn to things to comfort themselves, right, whether it be

369
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 1: food or smoking, or drugs or some other leave sex addiction, UM,

370
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: there are so many different ways to to actually try

371
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: to stoke those UM. I guess you can call them

372
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: members of pleasure and content. Now, an important thing to

373
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: keep in mind about about addiction is that it actually

374
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: changes the brain UH in many ways, physically changes the

375
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: brain of the addict UH and uh and and so

376
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna run through some of the changes that are

377
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 1: happening here. Yeah, we mentioned that there is a loss

378
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: of dopamine receptors in the brains of addicts as D

379
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: two receptors, So again you would see that it takes

380
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 1: more dopamine to get that same sort of level in

381
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: your brain of pleasure. And we I think we mentioned

382
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 1: that more in genetics. But when you're taking a substance

383
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 1: UM repeatedly, of course you're going to have some changes

384
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: in your dopamine receptors. And what's interesting here too, is

385
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: that it's not not just the dopamine receptors as affected

386
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: by the drug, because that's kind of an obvious, almost

387
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: a cliche that we understand with with drug addiction. Oh well,

388
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: now you have to use more to try and chase

389
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: that original high, or you're having to drink more to

390
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: to to to to reach the same level that you're

391
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: reaching previously. But it also bleeds over to other areas

392
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 1: of the dopamine experience, and two things such as love

393
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate and a food various you know, and other

394
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 1: other things in life that would give you the same

395
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 1: dopamine effect, you feel less of it. So an addict

396
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: ends up feeling their connection to the rest of the

397
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: world dampened or even deadened. Uh and UH. And the

398
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: easiest way to feel normal again in regards to those

399
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: connections is to turn back to that drug that's warped

400
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: the dopamine uh cycle to begin with. Yeah, it's terrible,

401
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: right because at first you you're just chasing pleasure, and

402
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: then UH that the effects of that substance have taken

403
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: such a toll that you're just trying to chase a

404
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: sort of equilibrium. Yeah, that's an important thing to keep

405
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: in mind. And and also, um, something that they hit

406
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: on in the presentation of World Science Festival is that

407
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: there's it's easy to fall into this outsider mode of

408
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: thinking that, oh, a addic just likes to feel good

409
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: and that's why they keep taking the substance in order

410
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: to feel good and to get high and to escape.

411
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: Whereas that, to your point, it eventually becomes not about

412
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: feeling good and about recreation. It's about treating self medicating

413
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: their own illness. Really well, anybody who has experienced the

414
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: hair of the dog the next day, right, you know,

415
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: let's well, think you have a hangover hair in your mouth. Yeah,

416
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: you have a hangover and you've got a bunch of

417
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: dog hair clown knows on and uh, you don't know

418
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: what happened. No, actually you wake up and you say,

419
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: I'll just have a beer to sort of reset myself.

420
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: I've always wondered if that works. I always read about it,

421
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: and you know, they're always doing that in various noir

422
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: stories and all but work. I feel like we went

423
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: in we went over this in the Hangover episode we

424
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: did ages ago, but I don't recall. I don't know,

425
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: it's been so long since I engaged in that I

426
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: feel like I probably did it. And then, you know,

427
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: probably later that night, had more of whatever like wine,

428
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: and then felt terrible again, and then woke up again

429
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: and again. You see how this all plays out. What

430
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting about the panel at the World

431
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: Science Festival is that they showed the brains of a

432
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: methodic heroin addict and um an obese person, and what

433
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: they saw, again is all less D two receptors in

434
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: the brain. And they said, look this this is also

435
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: true for obesity, which is essentially food addiction. And if

436
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: you look in terms of obesity cases of severe obesity

437
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: our food addiction, with only ten of the cases of

438
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: severe severe obesity having to do with a metabolic defect. Again,

439
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: some of this bleeds over to this other area. When

440
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: we talk about obesity, we tend to judge the person

441
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: in the willpower right or the lack of willpower, when

442
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is the habit becoming so ingrained.

443
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: Another way the brain changes, addiction results in more synaps connections.

444
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: This is the idea that the pathways to the habit

445
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: forms more connections. Uh, and then more the more the

446
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: substances abused. And this is an area that research are

447
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: still trying to to fully understand what's going on here.

448
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: But but my understanding, based on the research materials we're

449
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: looking at, is that that this is thought to tie

450
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: in tow again those drug memories. There are formed the

451
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: idea that when one is taking the substance, you're encoding

452
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: all these memories about the use of the substance, the

453
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: environment which the substance is used, and and then that's

454
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: playing into these various synaps connections. Yeah. They had a

455
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: great image of that and you could see where the

456
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: little synaptic connections were created and um, and it did

457
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: kind of give you this idea like, here's all this

458
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: stuff that's being created so that you can have a sticky,

459
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: sticky memory of the path to get back to the

460
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: behavior or the addiction. Yeah, sticky memory in a sense.

461
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: It's like a sticky placed right on the brains thing. Yea, hey,

462
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: this is this is the way to feel good right here. Well,

463
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of and it was sort of a terrifying

464
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: image too, because I sort of showed that the normal

465
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: snapped the connection there and then this other sort of

466
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: thing that shows up and it had sound effects to

467
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: remember it kind of went right, did have some sort

468
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: of alien like brain alien Yeah. Um. The other thing

469
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: that has affected is your hippocampus that's sort of rewired

470
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: in the brains of alcoholics. And we talk about hipocampus,

471
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: we're talking more about memory here. So it would make

472
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: sense that if you're an alcoholic, um, a lot of

473
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: your memories are going to be stored in the same

474
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: way or even committed long term in the same way.

475
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: And what has been found is that heavy drinking can

476
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: reduce total hippocampus volume, and that was reported in the

477
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: November two thousand and six issue of Alcoholism Clinical and

478
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: Experimental Research. I've seen other papers on this too that

479
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: will say, now the person's memory while it can suffer

480
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: that the brain sort of shuttles um the hippocampus or

481
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: rather some of the functions of the hippocampus to other

482
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: parts of the branding to try to make up for that. Um.

483
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: But what we're talking about here is an imperfect memory, right. Also,

484
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: it has an effect on willpower, you know, with the

485
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: with decreased willpower. Yeah, so that's kind of you know,

486
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: adding links insult to injury here, right, because you know,

487
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: you engage in the behavior and if it becomes rutinized

488
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: enough than all of a sudden, that part of your

489
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: brain that deals with executive function, well, you don't have

490
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: nearly as much neural activity there because of the behavior.

491
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: So even if you wanted to quit, it makes it

492
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: that much harder. Another way that that that we're actually

493
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: seeing the brain change here with addiction. UH two thousand twelve,

494
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: research from the University of North Carolina School of Medicine,

495
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: using mice in a in a research project, found that

496
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: heavy alcohol use actually a rewires brain circuity, making it

497
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: get harder for alcoholics to recover psychologically following a traumatic experience,

498
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: which again feels like another kick in the gut to

499
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: this overall situation because suddenly decreased the willpower and you're

500
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: gonna have harder time bouncing back from from traumatic events.

501
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: And therefore, what comfort blanket you run to, You go

502
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: to the the substance that is the gateway to feeling

503
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: normal again. Yeah, we'll talk a little bit more specifically

504
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: about relapse on the next episode. UM but when we

505
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: talk out more abou the future of addiction. UM but, yeah,

506
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean that when do people tend to relapse, Not

507
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: when things are going well, it's when something terrible, stressful

508
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: is happening in their lives. And um again, you've got

509
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: those ghosts of the neural furcuatory just sitting there waiting

510
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: to be activated. Yeah. I think when we were discussing

511
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: habits in one of our habit episodes for around the

512
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: year's time, I think we talked about when that when

513
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: the brain forms a new habit, it's like it's like

514
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: a road. Okay, you have a two lane highway going

515
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: from point A to point B. When you want to

516
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: build a new road, you have to build next to

517
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: that existing road, you know, or even off of that

518
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: existing road. So maybe you have the new four lane

519
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: highway over here, but that two lane highway is still there.

520
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: The brain still knows where it is, and if it

521
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: has to, or if it thinks it has to, it

522
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: will take that road. That's right. So if that road

523
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: is that you take a drink at six pm, and

524
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: that's when all of this would begin these triggers, then

525
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: you just take the other road. Maybe you go and

526
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: work out at six pm. You have to take something

527
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: else to place the behavior in order to really sort

528
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: of um mess with the ghosts of the neural circuitry um.

529
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: In fact, when we talk about habit um, there are

530
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: a couple of authors and researchers and m Grabel and

531
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: Kyle S. Smith writing for Scientific American, and they say

532
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: that we learn in chunks, kind of like if you're

533
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: committing the digits of pie to your your memory, you

534
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: would probably do them in chunks, like say seven digits, right,

535
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: And they're saying the same thing happens with habits. And

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: this happens when the prefrontal cortex communicates with a stri

537
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: itum and the stri item communicates with the mid brain

538
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: where dopamine helps with learning and assigning values to values

539
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: to goals. And they say that these circuits create feedback

540
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: loops which help us to figure out what's working and

541
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: not working in behavior. And as we were even and

542
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: that's that's sort of the point where you can be like,

543
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: I don't know about this behavior, right, Like you're maybe

544
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: you're executive functions are sort of still intact. But let's

545
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: say you keep repeating the behavior over and over again, Well,

546
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: that feedback loops become stronger, stamping routines into these single

547
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: units or chunks. Yeah, the chunking process, which I think

548
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: when we've touched on on this before, the analogy I

549
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: always go to is is like hot keys. You know,

550
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: instead of instead of going through you know, go to

551
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: the drag down menu and in a program and then

552
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: go to another sub menu to pull up this cool

553
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: that use all the time, you just start using the

554
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: hot key, and then the hot key becomes such a

555
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: habit you forget how to find it elsewhere. You may

556
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: even forget what the hot key is. You just have

557
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: the muscle memory of hitting it. And this you see

558
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: the same thing in various programming right, and where the

559
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: program is in X than y and z. So that's

560
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: what your brain is doing. It's taking the shortcuts. It's

561
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: a it's an economic way of doing the same task

562
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: over and over again. Well, here's the crazy thing that

563
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: these researchers saw is that and they saw this in

564
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: rats too. By the way they saw they did a

565
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: ton of research on this um They saw that chunking,

566
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: that imprinting getting stronger and stronger with the feedback loops

567
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: and a aventually another system called the infro limbic system. Well,

568
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: it says, I'll help you out here, strike item, and

569
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: I'll help you chunk some more of these and imprint

570
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: this stuff. And so what happens is that the infrolymbics

571
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 1: cortex begins to work in concert with dopamine and begins

572
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: to really control when we should dabble in this activity.

573
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: And it's almost like that infrolymbics system becomes it's sort

574
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: of like this outside part of the brain going, well, okay,

575
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 1: strike item. If you're gonna keep doing this and your

576
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: loops are gonna get you know, uh more and more

577
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: well trenched, then I'll go ahead and let this behavior.

578
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: And as we talked about with Charles Doohig and his

579
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: book about habits, at some point habits become so ingrained

580
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: that your prefrontal cortex is just like, you know what,

581
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: I don't need to do this. I know this, this

582
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: person's this is that person's habit, and I don't I

583
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: just need to give radio silent here because the rest

584
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: of the brain knows what to do now and pick

585
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: up all right. So I know what everyone's wondering at

586
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: this point is all this damage we've we've we've talked

587
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: about the changes that occurring to the brain of the

588
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: damage is it reversible? Can you actually turn back the

589
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: clock on this and and sort of reclaim the brain

590
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: kind of depends on ageing genetics according to the panel

591
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: from the World Science Festival, and the level of neural plasticities. So, hey,

592
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: if you're younger and you catch this, well, obviously the

593
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: damage to your brain can be UM, then you can

594
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: kind of go back in the time machine and work

595
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: things back out. And you're often earlier in the overall

596
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: timeline of addiction to so you have that working in

597
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: your advantage. So basically, the earlier you catch it, the

598
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: earlier you're able to actually get in there and not

599
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: not not as much as even turn back the clock

600
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: as much as just try to prevent um going further

601
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: down the road the better if you're going to be

602
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: If you are further down the road, Um, you've got

603
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: those molecular and cellular scars that remain on the brain. Um,

604
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: you could actually maybe have a little injection of synthetic

605
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: human growth hormone. And researchers from Upselling University and so

606
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: we didn't have been doing this. They have been looking

607
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: at brain cells targeted for early death by continued opiate use,

608
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: and they're seeing that that some of those cells can

609
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: be salvaged by this um human growth HORMONELL so, but

610
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: you know who knows sort of what the side effects

611
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: are that and that's yeah, certainly down the road. Don't

612
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: head your bets on that and say, oh, I'll just

613
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: get an injection at my brain and that will fix

614
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: everything once I've I've actually put put the halt on

615
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: the drug use. Yeah, if you've listened to our earlier episodes. Uh,

616
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: don't be on yourself if you've been stung by jellyfish,

617
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: don't self trepionate, and don't inject yourself with h H.

618
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: All right, So there you have it. Uh, there is ah,

619
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: just you know, intro into the science of addiction. What's

620
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: happening in the brain, what kind of changes are occurring

621
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: and uh, and what can be done ultimately to reverse

622
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: some of this damage and put a stamp on it. Yeah.

623
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: And David Lyndon said something very interesting to Terry Gross

624
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: when he was on her show and he was talking

625
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: about his book The Compass of Pleasure. He said, when

626
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: you understand the biology of the pleasure circuit and when

627
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: you understand how the contribution of genetics and stress and

628
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: life experience. Actually, even starting in the womb and going

629
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: forward all come together. The end result is that you

630
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: have to realize that any one of us, any one

631
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: of us, could be an addict at any time. Addiction

632
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: is not fundamentally a moral failing. It's not a disease

633
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: of weak willed losers. When you look at the biology.

634
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: The only model of addiction that makes sense as a

635
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: disease based model, and the only attitude towards addicts that

636
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: makes sense is one of compassion. So they have it

637
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: the science of addiction. And hey, the next episode is

638
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: going to explore the future of addiction, so I hope

639
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: you will stay tuned UH to listen to that episode

640
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: as well. In the meantime, you can explore this and

641
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: countless other topics that stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

642
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: That's our mothership. That's where you'll find all the videos

643
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: on the podcast, blog posts, the links out to our

644
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: social media accounts like our Facebook, our Twitter, and our tumbler.

645
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: And hey, if you want to shoot us an email,

646
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: if you have thoughts about addiction, UH, your own dealings

647
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: with it, your own dealings with the science of it,

648
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: you can send us an email at Blow the Mind

649
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this

650
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works

651
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: dot com