1
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the newest All Ball I'm Doug Gottlieb,

2
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: and uh, we can't tell how much we appreciate you

3
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,320
Speaker 1: downloading this year podcast. Our our guest for a second

4
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 1: consecutive pod is no other than Dan dick Cal who

5
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 1: was just a great, great basketball player, especially his last

6
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: two collegian seasons at Gonzaga's National Player of the Year

7
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: before becoming a first round draft pick in the NBA.

8
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,239
Speaker 1: On today's episode, wait do you hear kind of the

9
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: ironic full circle nature not just for the first time

10
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: he played against Washington or his first game with Gonzaga,

11
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,599
Speaker 1: but also UM an NBA game he tried to get

12
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 1: into and end up not getting into his first year

13
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 1: in the n c A Tournament when they went to

14
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,199
Speaker 1: the sweet sixteen, and where he ended up being drafted.

15
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: That plus offenses that you fit into you don't fit

16
00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: into UM, the the idea of a backup point guard

17
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 1: and why he struggled with that role for certain coaches,

18
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 1: there is a there's a there's just this is good

19
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 1: eating right here, really really good eating. Quick reminded the

20
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,399
Speaker 1: Doug Otip shows three or sixth Eastern told three Pacific

21
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio Fox Sports Radar dot Com, the

22
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. You can doubt you should download

23
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 1: this subscribe rate it. Write a review because when you

24
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 1: write a review, I think I make more money. And

25
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: if I don't, well, we're just gonna test you for

26
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 1: your writing acumen. That's really what it kind of comes

27
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 1: down to. Anyway. When we last left Dan dick out,

28
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: he was discussing his transfer to Gonzaga from the University Washington,

29
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: working with Tommy Lloyd during his year off. Now we

30
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 1: continue during our last episode with Dan dick Ou and

31
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 1: the car Stories, we left you with Gonzaga Tommy Lloyd

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: unbelievable workouts. He was a grinder, you guys became tightlight

33
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 1: butt cheeks, right, and uh so, I guess here's here's

34
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: I got a bunch of things that I want to

35
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: get to. But um, how do you how do you

36
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 1: know you're getting better? I mean, I guess it's when

37
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 1: I sat out. I Uh, I did what you were

38
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 1: talking about doing, which is Golden West College was coached

39
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: by Tom McCleskey, was my high school coach for my

40
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 1: freshman year, and so I got to do like a

41
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 1: bunch of things. One is I got to be an

42
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 1: assistant coach during games. And then I got to kind

43
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 1: of same thing, just being alpha and take on different

44
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: roles during practice and just try and carry a team.

45
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,919
Speaker 1: And I really felt myself kind of getting better. Um,

46
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 1: But what about did you change your body? Did you

47
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,639
Speaker 1: change your diet? Was it just all in the gym

48
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 1: and take me through the entire process of that year? Yeah, yeah,

49
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 1: I did. I don't know if I necessarily changed my diet, um,

50
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 1: but I did change the workout weightlifting regiment. Um. When

51
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 1: I was at University of Washington, our our strength and

52
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: conditioning coaches that were focused on basketball at at that time,

53
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,480
Speaker 1: we were an afterthought because it was a football school.

54
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 1: So really, I'm pretty darn sure that the two strength

55
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 1: coaches didn't even know my name the whole two years

56
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 1: I was there. It's just that's that skinny young kid. Uh.

57
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,920
Speaker 1: And so I really, I mean, I didn't have anything

58
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 1: that really helped me athletically while I was at universital Washington.

59
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 1: It's weird. I'm like, how you're describing it is weird

60
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,799
Speaker 1: because I'll be totally honest with you. I never saw

61
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,839
Speaker 1: you playing AU, but I remember when we got ready

62
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: to play you and you're a freshman, and he came

63
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,840
Speaker 1: into Stillwater. The billing to us and to me was

64
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,119
Speaker 1: like you were pistol Pete, Like that was the reputation

65
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 1: was like, this is a pistol Pete marritage type dude.

66
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 1: He's gonna come in and when he whatever minutes, he

67
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 1: gets like he's different than the rest of those guys.

68
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: And yet I don't like obviously, now twenty years later,

69
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,040
Speaker 1: it feels like and I agree with you on a

70
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: strengthening because I wasn't Notre Dame. We basically did a

71
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 1: football strength program. That's what they were. Yeah, but it

72
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 1: was the football school should allow them the resource like

73
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 1: the shan resources. And maybe it's changed because I do think,

74
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 1: like I know Glan State now they have a basketball dedicade.

75
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: Jake does a great job there. Um, But it's interesting,

76
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 1: like that really affects you because I was a hundred

77
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: sixty pounds when I walked into Notre Dame and I'd

78
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 1: worked with Marvin Renovich and whatever, and I was athletically

79
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,719
Speaker 1: really good, just needed some strength and we that was

80
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:43,359
Speaker 1: when Creatine was first big and and dude, I was, yeah,

81
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: I was swoll I was like one seventy seven. Our

82
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: first guy gained seventeen pounds. But it wasn't it wasn't

83
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: a bad Like I looked great, but I wasn't flying

84
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,200
Speaker 1: all over the place. And so one of the things

85
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: that I did when I got back, uh to Orange

86
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 1: County was like I got back to fix and get

87
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: my diet right and my body right. And I looked

88
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 1: more like a basketball player leaned out some as opposed

89
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: to being a weightlift. So I was just wondering how

90
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 1: much that played because and look at WCC was not

91
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: at the level of the pack twelve. But you went

92
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 1: from being a good player you played with a broken

93
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: foot when you're at Washington to being the best player

94
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: in college basketball. And I'm just in addition to the workouts,

95
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 1: I would assume that your body changed a little bit

96
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, you're exactly right, because I was a

97
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,359
Speaker 1: kid who started getting interested in weightlifting as a sophomore

98
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 1: in high school. But no matter what I did, I

99
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 1: couldn't put on weight, I couldn't put on size, I

100
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 1: couldn't put on strength. That was just you know, the

101
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,480
Speaker 1: way my body was maturing. Um, my red shirt ear

102
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: at Gonzaga that you're alluding to UH. We had a

103
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: really good strength coach, but he was a former football

104
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,919
Speaker 1: player and he was kind of, you know, from the

105
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 1: bodybuilding type mold, so it was a little bit of

106
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 1: fine line of he was still learning how to tailor

107
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,919
Speaker 1: it into basketball specific movements. Gonzaga now has one of

108
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 1: the best strength coaches in the country, Travis Night. But

109
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: the former guy that that I used to work with

110
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 1: and in the Elite eight group worked with. Um he

111
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 1: was all about putting on size and strength, and so

112
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: I think his workouts combined with the fact that I

113
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 1: wasn't playing games, and I put a ton of effort

114
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 1: into the weight room at that time, and then my

115
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 1: body just finally caught up. I I really started putting

116
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: on on some size and strength and muscle mass. I

117
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 1: was my senior year at Gonzaga. I was I was

118
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 1: a legit one ninety where in high school. When I graduated,

119
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,359
Speaker 1: I was probably about one seventy two. Um. Right now

120
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,040
Speaker 1: to this day, I'm about one eighty five. But when

121
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 1: I got to the NBA, I actually lost weight. UM,

122
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: I was about five. After I tore my achilles, I

123
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,719
Speaker 1: went down to about one seventy five. Because I realized

124
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,599
Speaker 1: in the n b A. I wasn't gonna push anybody around.

125
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,040
Speaker 1: It didn't matter how strong I was. What mattered to

126
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,359
Speaker 1: me and the NBA was my balance, the ability to

127
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 1: take a hit and stay on on the course, on

128
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: the path, on the direction that I had UM. So

129
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 1: that red shirt year really kind of tied in all

130
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 1: the basketball workouts my body mature and UM and then

131
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: the weight room really kind of helped as well. Your

132
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: first game back, do you remember who you played? I

133
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,000
Speaker 1: remember the first preseason game. It was this was when uh,

134
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 1: this was when they had these old traveling teams, right

135
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: you had y Yeah. So we played a cb A

136
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 1: team called the Yakama sun Kings, who were a really

137
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 1: good team in the in the c b A at

138
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 1: the time. I had twenty nine points in the first

139
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: game back, and I remember walking off that court being like,

140
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: all right, I think this is gonna work, and uh,

141
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. I look back at

142
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: that game and I actually I saw a box score

143
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago from that game, and David

144
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: Vanterpool was on the sun Kings, and he's kind of

145
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: one of the next up and coming guys in the NBA.

146
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: Is gonna be a head coach. He's been on the

147
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 1: Blazer staff for a number of years. Now, Um, okay

148
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 1: you'r yeah. I think your first big game at gu

149
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 1: was against Arizona, right you guys, you guys played Arizona. Yeah,

150
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,720
Speaker 1: on the r Yeah he played. I'm looking at your schedule. Okay,

151
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,840
Speaker 1: so you opened up Eastern Washington. I see that's a Now,

152
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 1: was Jack o Letti the coach at Eastern when you're

153
00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: playing Jack o Lettie was the coach that year. Um,

154
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: And so yeah, everything kind of came full circle because

155
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 1: as we talked about in the first part, Yeah, he

156
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: was the guy who recruited me to you dub and

157
00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 1: now he's the head coach at Eastern. Um. It was

158
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: kind of interesting, but you know, to kind of wrap

159
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: things up even more and come full circle, Coach Jack

160
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 1: letty Is is a great friend of mine to this day.

161
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 1: Actually actually texted with him the other day. He's on

162
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 1: staff at St. Louis. Phenomenal guy. But yeah, he was

163
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: the head coach at at Eastern at that time. She

164
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,680
Speaker 1: busted them up. You us that u W Green Bay.

165
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 1: You beat Idaho by by fifty running it up on

166
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: that poor Idaho. And so you go and play Arizona.

167
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: So now like here's like you're a guy who your

168
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: whole life, as we talked about part one, you dream

169
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 1: of playing in the in the Pac ten and you

170
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 1: had Washington mixed results. Um now you're at Gonzago with

171
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,520
Speaker 1: your boys. Were a place where you're the guy and

172
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: you're a little lot more comfortable. Uh would you do

173
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 1: you remember that first matchup of Arizona. Yeah, absolutely, I

174
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: remember everything about it because, as you mentioned, it was

175
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 1: a chance to go back and play against a Pac

176
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: ten team and they were ranked at the time. I

177
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,320
Speaker 1: think they had so Jason Gardner was the point guard

178
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 1: on the West Coast that after Baron had went to

179
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 1: the NBA, was getting a lot of the attention media wise. Um,

180
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:56,439
Speaker 1: so it was Jason Gardner, Gilbert Arenas, who was unbelievable.

181
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: They had Michael Wright, they had Richard Jefferson, Luke Jackson,

182
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,120
Speaker 1: the big tall, skinny guy, Ricky Ricky Anderson, I believe

183
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: it was they were Ricky was. Ricky's dad was the

184
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,920
Speaker 1: coach at the Long Beach City, right, Yeah, Lauren was.

185
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: They were loaded and you know, everyone was still kind

186
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 1: of on the fence with Gonzaga, Like, hey, you know

187
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: they were back to back. Uh they went to lead

188
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 1: eight sweet sixteen. The guys that got them, they're they're gone.

189
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,680
Speaker 1: It's Casey Calvary's team. Uh that we don't know about

190
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,199
Speaker 1: Blake step the freshman. We don't know about Dan dick

191
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: Out the transfer from you. Dub So went in there

192
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,839
Speaker 1: with a lot of confidence, played really well, really well.

193
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 1: I think we were up um midway or late in

194
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,560
Speaker 1: the second half, and Uh, Casey Calvary got a phantom

195
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: fifth foul call. He was nowhere near the play, nowhere

196
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: near the play. It was like a loose ball in

197
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the key. Casey was about six to

198
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 1: eight feet away, um from the from the scrum, and

199
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,240
Speaker 1: he gets called for it, and everything just kind went

200
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 1: downhill from there and we ended up losing only by

201
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 1: about maybe six or something if I remember right. Um,

202
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 1: but that was a fourteen Okay, Well, my memory made

203
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: it a little closer game. It was. Sometimes it gets

204
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: away from you at the end. It was probably a

205
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 1: four point game or something when that happened, when he

206
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 1: fouled out and we just couldn't hang on. Um. But

207
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: the the other thing that I remember about this game

208
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 1: is um So towards the end of the game. Uh,

209
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: we're on offense. Somebody takes a shot, and you know

210
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 1: how point guards. If you're on the baseline after like

211
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: a driving kick and you're kind of your momentum is

212
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 1: taking you under the basket, a rebound happens and you'll

213
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,199
Speaker 1: just take a swipe and whoever gets Yeah, but you

214
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 1: would take a swipe, but whoever is getting the rebound.

215
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 1: I took a swipe at the ball because Richard Jefferson

216
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 1: was getting the rebound, and my finger stuck in his

217
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,719
Speaker 1: jersey and I felt like a pop. I'm like, oh no.

218
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 1: So I'm running down court and I'm shaking my hand

219
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: trying to to to make it feel better, and I

220
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,959
Speaker 1: was like, okay, this isn't good. So I dribbled down

221
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 1: and this was on my left hand, so thankfully it's

222
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 1: not my dominant hand. I'm dribbling down the floor. Next possession,

223
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: throw one hand pass, don't have to do anything else

224
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 1: with it. Second next possession, after that, I'm coming down

225
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 1: the floor and I have to throw a skip pass.

226
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: So I picked the ball up with two hands and

227
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: I throw a skip pass. And when I threw that

228
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 1: skip pass, I heard a snap in my finger and

229
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 1: I looked down at my fingers pointing in the opposite direction. Um,

230
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,360
Speaker 1: because like after I poked the ball or poked at

231
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 1: the ball with Richard Jefferson, like, it was kind of

232
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: fun funny looking, but it wasn't awful, and so I

233
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,560
Speaker 1: just kept playing. So immediately we called time out and

234
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: I walk over to our trainer, Steve Oh, Steve DeLong.

235
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: I was like, Steve, something's wrong with my finger here,

236
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 1: and I'm starting like my arms shaking because it hurts

237
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: and something's not right. He looks at he goes, yeah,

238
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 1: there's that's not good. Look away. I was like what.

239
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 1: He goes, look away, and he popped my finger back

240
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: in and he goes, all right, go ahead and go

241
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 1: back out there. So I went out and played like

242
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 1: the you know, the final minute and a a half or

243
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,520
Speaker 1: whatever it might have been. Uh, with a with a

244
00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 1: finger that was awful. So after the game, then we

245
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,560
Speaker 1: go to the Tucson the Tucson Hospital, and I'll remember

246
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 1: this plane as day. I'm I'm in my jersey still,

247
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 1: it's just me and the trainer. We go to we

248
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,000
Speaker 1: go to the hospital and uh, you know it's a

249
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 1: college Division one team you get a little bit of

250
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 1: ahead of the line, and in the emergency room, right

251
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 1: there was somebody who was jumped in a gang fight,

252
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,319
Speaker 1: sitting in a in a wheelchair, bleeding all down his face,

253
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: and UH and Steve O and I are like looking

254
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: around and like, shouldn't you guys help this person? First?

255
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,880
Speaker 1: I got a bad finger. Yeah, so yeah, we go

256
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,200
Speaker 1: back get X rays. Yeah it's broken whatever. It's like,

257
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: oh man, whatever, We've come back out. And this is

258
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: like an hour later, the kid is still sitting there

259
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,040
Speaker 1: in the same spot and I was just shaking my head.

260
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 1: It was it was unbelievable. It was it was disappointing,

261
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: um to see that happened to uh, to a kid.

262
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 1: So your next game, Washington comes to town. You go

263
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: back to the kennel, the old kennel, and you Dub

264
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 1: comes to town. Now at this time, romrs to coach, right,

265
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean still bender, still bender, Yes, still bender. So

266
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 1: that was maybe my most disappointing, uh and frustrating game

267
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: that I've ever ever missed at the college less okay

268
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: wait wait, so so just just to set up, just

269
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: so you understand, So when I left Notre Dame and

270
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 1: unlike your experience at you dub like I don't. I

271
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 1: don't blame them, right, I'm not. I mean, there's no

272
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 1: what do I wish we had any sort of transition game,

273
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: secondary break like we're There are things about Notre Dame

274
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: in terms of basketball wise, I thought could have been better, Yes,

275
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 1: And was I considering leaving even before I had to transfer? Yes, right,

276
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: I think lots of god freshmen go through that. But

277
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: I nearly went to Marquette, and there was a myriad

278
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: of reasons. Mike Dean was the coach. He's a crazy person,

279
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: but he was incredibly passionate as a recruiter, and I

280
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 1: always dug market Is before Marquette kind of hit it

281
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: big right with Tom Cree and them um. But the

282
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 1: the big draw to me was get to play Notre Dame.

283
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 1: I want to. I want to kick their ass like

284
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,760
Speaker 1: that's I think any competitors like you don't know what

285
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 1: you had. He had it, you know, to to he

286
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,120
Speaker 1: lost it, And I always wanted to play Notre Dame.

287
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 1: Want to play Notre Dame at the end of the day,

288
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: A big reason. There's a lot of reasons I chose

289
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: Oaklhom State instead of Notre Dame, but a set of modern,

290
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: a set of Marquette. And one of the big reasons was,

291
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: like I knew I was losing myself in my desire

292
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,680
Speaker 1: to say fuck you, right, that was really I was,

293
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: And I had to get kind of what do I

294
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,280
Speaker 1: really need? What kind of place do I want to

295
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 1: play at? Etcetera. UM, you leave, as you said, like

296
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,680
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like they wanted you to stay, even

297
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,720
Speaker 1: though you were one of the biggest recruits in the

298
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 1: West Coast when you got there and you spend a

299
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 1: year off. Okay, what do you remember kind of the

300
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 1: lead up? Like, because you get so wrapped up in

301
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: the Arizona game and you got the finger. Now you

302
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 1: fly home, Like do you remember the lead up to it?

303
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 1: And and and what that? What all those emotions were, Like,

304
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, I due to some extent, but you know,

305
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: the only guys that that I really stayed in decent

306
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 1: contact with from you Dub would have been Michael Johnson,

307
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: who uh came in with me at the same time

308
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: at You Dub, and then Grant Leap, who's now head

309
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: coach at Seattle Pacific. Those are the only two guys

310
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 1: that really stayed in touch with UM. After I decided

311
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 1: to transfer UM, and so I kind of was excited

312
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: to see those guys play. There was another young guy

313
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: would have been Marlon Shelton. His dad, Lonnie, played in

314
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: the NBA for a while. He was a year younger

315
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 1: than me at you dubbed UM. It was nice to

316
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 1: see him in person when they were coming came to

317
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 1: spoken in the playoffs. But really I didn't. I didn't

318
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: keep a lot of connections with those guys, and I

319
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: think a lot of it probably honestly had to do

320
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 1: with the time of technology. Now there's the social media

321
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,359
Speaker 1: aspect where you know, if you're being recruited by a

322
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: similar school as another kid across the country, you're you

323
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: get to know him at at an early age, direct messages,

324
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: Twitter posts, Instagram, all that stuff. So it was a

325
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,440
Speaker 1: lot different than UH. And so I don't think the

326
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,360
Speaker 1: connections not weren't necessarily there for me anymore, even though

327
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: it was only a year gone by. But I think,

328
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, the frustration and the disappointment that I wasn't

329
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: able to play UH was absolutely there, you know. And

330
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: I can take it a step further because the following year,

331
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 1: Doug we played at You Up, so this is my

332
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: senior year, and now obviously I've proven my proven myself. Um,

333
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 1: we go to Seattle and Coach Benner was still the coach,

334
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: and we go to Seattle, and the first two made

335
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: baskets of the game. I hit back to back threes,

336
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: bang bang, six points like literally in the first two minutes.

337
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 1: And so in the back of my head, I'm thinking,

338
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give these dudes forty two nights. I'm gonna

339
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:28,199
Speaker 1: give him forty. Well, I ended up. I don't I mean,

340
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 1: I don't want to blame it on any official, but

341
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,639
Speaker 1: I picked up bing bing binge two quick fouls in

342
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: the right after those may threes, and then I think

343
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 1: I picked up a third the second Coach few pet

344
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 1: put me back in in the first half. Only game

345
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,959
Speaker 1: my senior year, I was in in in single digits

346
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: with six points. Every other game my senior year, I

347
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,119
Speaker 1: was in double figures that game right there, Maybe sits

348
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: with me more than any other. Like man, I wanted

349
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: to give those guys forty and I ended up with six.

350
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: Your your junior year, you guys went through this little

351
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: losing stretch there. You know, obviously you know your finger

352
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,239
Speaker 1: and uh and and then you guys have this like

353
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,919
Speaker 1: treacherous road thing where you go and you play Florida

354
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 1: on the road, but and then you lose the Green Bay.

355
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: But then you guys kind of figured it out with

356
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 1: the exception of Santa Clara on the road. I think

357
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: like once you got in the league, you didn't lose

358
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 1: the game. You went like thirteen and one plus win

359
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 1: the conference. Tournaman did, was there a moment, was there

360
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,159
Speaker 1: a was there a like a Dan dick out meeting? Uh?

361
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: That that turned that thing into a sweet sixteen year.

362
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: A couple of things. So you mentioned um kind of

363
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: a lull so and I take great pride in this

364
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: because coach Few always judges his point guards not on points,

365
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: not on assists, turnovers, etcetera. He did you win the

366
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: game or not because he understands different players have different

367
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: um strengths and he wants you to to play within

368
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: your strengths to to help the team win. I was out.

369
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: We went five and four, and that's that stretched you're

370
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: talking about. If you take out those nine games. During

371
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: the course of my two years, I think I had

372
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: the highest winning percentage of any point guard that played

373
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: at Gonzaga. I I if not, I'd be top two

374
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: or three. Um, so I take great pride in that.

375
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: But well, on that trip that you're talking about, Florida

376
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: and then up to Wisconsin Green Bay, Gonzaga always has

377
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: a culture of great leadership from their old seniors, juniors

378
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: and seniors, whoever it may be. And a lot of

379
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 1: times the leadership doesn't come from the best their best

380
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: player or their leading scorer. We lost at Wisconsin Green

381
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: Bay after losing to Florida, and and and yes, so

382
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: we lost in Wisconsin Green Bay and Mark Spink um

383
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,439
Speaker 1: only true Zag fans will remember that name. Mark Spink

384
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 1: lit everybody up in the locker room, up and down.

385
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 1: I mean from you know, I was spared because I

386
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: couldn't play, but I'm sitting there like, okay, I agree

387
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: with everything you're saying, right, But he lit every single

388
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: person up and down that locker room, from manager to teammate.

389
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: And come to find out later on, the coaching staff

390
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: was in the hallway and the second they were about

391
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: to come in and kind of give their pregame talk,

392
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 1: Mark Spink just went off on us. And so Mark

393
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: Spink basically just set the tone for the rest of

394
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: the year. Like guys, there's no more bs and around.

395
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: It's on us. We've lost enough games. We have to

396
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 1: get through this if we're going to get back to

397
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: the n s A tournament, which we all know we're

398
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: good enough to do, we all want to do. We

399
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: don't want to let this Gonzagger run end on us. UM.

400
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: And so that was the turning point you mentioned the

401
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: Santa Clara lost. UM. That was a that was an

402
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 1: interesting game because, uh, we just couldn't score. We could

403
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: not score. Santa Clair was really good at that time.

404
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 1: They had some good backcourt guys. They had some really

405
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: good bigs. But that game was fun for me because

406
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: I had a stretch in the second half where I

407
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: scored twenty two straight points, like literally, Um. I watched

408
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: the video a few years back, and but then this

409
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: was the coaches film because not every game was on

410
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: TV at the time. I had twenty two straight points

411
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: and that kept us in it to some extent. But

412
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: we still ended up losing UM that game. But yeah,

413
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: those were some some fun memories. We talked in the

414
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: last episode about when you're a freshman like kind of

415
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: living living with some mistakes and you wish it At Washington,

416
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: they would have done that when you got hurt, Uh,

417
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: Kyle Kyle Bankhead and Blake obviously had to had to

418
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: kind of pick up the load. Is there any thought that,

419
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: like now years later, when you got hurt, they developed

420
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: more kind of threw them in the deep end, right,

421
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: And then you write it. I almost I thought I

422
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: remember watching that team going like, well, that's when you

423
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: beat Virginia and you you get all the way to

424
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: the sweets team, Like, maybe none of that happens if

425
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: not for their development by fire because you were out

426
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: and it was during a time which he played those

427
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: road games against against good competition. Yeah, you're spot on

428
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: with that, because I mean Blake was a tremendous player

429
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: as a freshman. I mean he basically came in new

430
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: knowing he was gonna start alongside me in the back court. Um,

431
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: Blake was no nonsense. All he cared about was winning.

432
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: I mean he got the outlet. He was a point

433
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: guard on that possession. I got the outlet. I was

434
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: the point guard on that possession. But when I got hurt,

435
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: all the point guard responsibilities fell on him for that

436
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: nine game stretch. And yeah, we lost some games, but

437
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: he he went through some tremendous growth opportunities. You know,

438
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: you you mentioned the Florida game. I remember that game

439
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: sitting there on the bench, not being able to play

440
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: because of of my broken finger, and I think Blake

441
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: had like eight or nine turnovers and he struggled from

442
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: the field. Um, but he did not back down. Like

443
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: and that was a good Florida team. They had Teddy

444
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: do Pay, they had Brett Nelson, uh Udonis Haslem was

445
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: one of their bigs. I mean, they were good and

446
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: Blake is a freshman, didn't back down. He just didn't

447
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: obviously make the right play. But he he was one

448
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: of those guys that was headstrong and it was just

449
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: gonna keep going until he figured things out. And then

450
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: obviously he did. Um. You know, so we jailed extremely

451
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: Well what do you remember bet that n C a

452
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: German run. Well, it's in Memphis, and you know, Virginia

453
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: wasn't uh, I don't. I don't think they respected us. Um.

454
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: You know, we came in and we we took it

455
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: to him in the first half and then you know,

456
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: we kind of just hung on. We hung on in

457
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: that second half after they made some big runs. Roger

458
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: Mason Jr. Um Made some big plays down the stretch

459
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: to make it close. I missed or actually I had

460
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: a layup attempt blocked with maybe six seven seconds left,

461
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: and Casey Calvary picked it up, put it in the bucket.

462
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: And then we dodged a bullet when I think it

463
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: was Roger Mason missed the three at the buzzer. Uh.

464
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: So we we obviously played well, but we didn't play

465
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: our best in that game. So that gave us a

466
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: lot of confidence going into round two, and we got

467
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: We dodged a bullet as well in round two because

468
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: Oklahoma got beat by Indiana State, which was a little

469
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: bit of a It wasn't a huge surprise, but it

470
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: was a it was a surprise. I mean, Oklahoma had

471
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: a really good backcourt that year, all his Price and

472
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: Quantas White. I believe it was great defensive guards that Um,

473
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: you know they would have been really good, uh matchup,

474
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: but Indiana State one. And then you know, we just

475
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: we just kind of grinded out to win against Indiana State.

476
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: We didn't do anything special, we didn't do anything off

477
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: the charts good. We were were just the better team

478
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: by far. And then because I think this would have

479
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: probably gone on to kind of showing you how how

480
00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: coach Few really wasn't kind of aware of things just yet,

481
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: and we weren't Gonzaga yet, Like we didn't pack enough

482
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: stuff to go to Atlanta because you know, I don't

483
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: know if the coaches thought we're gonna lose and come

484
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: home or what it might be. But we get the

485
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: message in Memphis is like, hey, guys, we're not going

486
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: back spoken We're going on to Atlanta. And everyone's like,

487
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: we packed for four days, what what are we supposed

488
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: to do? Literally, I mean guys were the same sweat outfits. Like,

489
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it was by the end of that and

490
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: the tournament round it was bad because guys were in

491
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: the same outfits for Yeah, but you know, like my

492
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: senior we did that. We went from Syracuse to Buffalo,

493
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: Buffalo to Syracuse, and we we did the same thing.

494
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: Uh One. I only remember wearing great Nike sweats my

495
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: entire college basketball experience. I remember you you get the

496
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: first pair and you're like, these are amazing. You don't

497
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: want to wash them because they have that They're like

498
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: they're like they're so softly first, right, like don't wash them,

499
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: don't wash them. And then finally wash them, but then

500
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: you just like live in them, and then you wait

501
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: until usually right before the tournament, you get the new

502
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: game shorts again because you get too short, right, they

503
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: shrink up. And sometimes you get new sweats as well.

504
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure it would have changed your gear,

505
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: but those memories and like, look, dude, you you played

506
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: in the league. You did a lot of incredible things.

507
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: The games are amazing. I feel like the time in

508
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament and the conference tournament when

509
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: it's just you and the guys and there's nothing to do,

510
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: like you know, school and nothing. And this is also

511
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: before cell phone, so guys can't be constantly staring at

512
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: their phones. Like some guys are still headphone guys right

513
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: with with display with this men you know whatever, but

514
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: just the idea it's just you and those guys and

515
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: nothing but time to tell jokes and stories. And some

516
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: guys annoy the ship out of you, right, some guys

517
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: are like way funnier than you thought. You know, there's

518
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: always a manager that you pick on. There's always a

519
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: manager that's kind of super cool and thinks he's super cool.

520
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: There's assistant coaches that you hate. There's coaches that you

521
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: like the whole thing. That to me is the best

522
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: part of the whole deal, the whole we And okay,

523
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: so I want you to I'll tell a story and

524
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: then I want you to if you can think of one,

525
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: one story, like all right, so again this is my

526
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: senior year. We're all by now like grown ups. Like

527
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: I was twenty four my senior because I was a

528
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: whole back and then I read shirted, right, so I'm oldest,

529
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: oldest dirt. We're all kind of fur and uh we

530
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: win in Buffalo and coaches like and we should have

531
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: gone home, really, we should have just gotten away from it,

532
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: but we didn't. He's like, you guys want to go

533
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: home for a day or stay here, and we're like

534
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: stare right. So, um, we had a bus and we

535
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: went to like Niagara Falls, and we you know, just

536
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: kind of bullshit around and trying anyway. We had one

537
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: cassette movie for the bus and it was something about

538
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: Mary and we watched it, I don't know six seven

539
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: times and by the end, like you know, you'd be

540
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: in layup lines for a game, like have you ever

541
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: been to Santiago, Chile? Twice? Last year? Right, like we're

542
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: quoting movies as we're hoping. Uh. Throughout throughout the tournament,

543
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: like it was kind of it became our thing. And

544
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: so even we had one guy on our team who

545
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: nobody liked, but even by then we're like, you know what,

546
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: like he kind of he kind of bought in. He

547
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: gotta bought in for that for the for those two weeks.

548
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: Is there any memory you have of that tournament of

549
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: Memphis to Atlanta where you guys are stuck in the South.

550
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: It's very different, right you're this, You're still Gonzag, You're

551
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: still the little engine that could. Any member you have

552
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: of that trip, yeah, you know, we um there was

553
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: the Lakers were playing the Hawks at a on a

554
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: at Philips Arena, I don't know what it's called now,

555
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: and we had no connection to get to to the

556
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: NBA game, and uh, Jermaine Forbes who was from London,

557
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: myself and Jay Cherrell, who was you know, from kind

558
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: of just outside Seattle. Uh, they were both the three

559
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: of us were like, let's just walk down and see

560
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: if we can scalp a ticket, you know, because we

561
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: couldn't get free tickets or whatever. It was a Laker,

562
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: so obviously it was sold out. Um. The two of

563
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: them had never been to an NBA game, so we

564
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: just we we took a taxi down to the Phillips

565
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: and we were gonna try to get a ticket to

566
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: the game. Well, I'm we're standing there, right and it's

567
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: connected to the CNN building and we're standing there and

568
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: somebody taps me on the shoulder and says, hey, are

569
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: you such and such. I'm like yeah, I was like,

570
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? I'm like, well, we're gonna

571
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: try to get tickets to the game. He's like, well,

572
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: instead of that, do you want to come? Can you

573
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: do you mind coming up to CNN building and doing

574
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: a sit down interview with Vince Cellini. I'm like what.

575
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: So we were gonna we were gonna walk, we were

576
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: gonna go to the game instead, and end up the

577
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: three of us went up to uh CNN headquarters, which

578
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: was mind boggling at the time because they had cn

579
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: N s I and Vince Chellaney and I did a

580
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: little small interview. Um, and then by the time you

581
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: know that the that was over. You know, we we

582
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: didn't get into the game because there was no tickets left,

583
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: and we also didn't want to break the rules, like

584
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: can we accept a free entrance to a game? So, uh,

585
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: that was kind of a unique little story. Um, you

586
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: know during the n c A tournament, just three random

587
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: dudes because Jay and I weren't close friends. Jermaine and

588
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: I were not close friends. Obviously we were good friends

589
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: because we were teammates, but you know, we just wanted

590
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: to go sneak into one NBA game. Yeah, that's it's amazing.

591
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: That reminds me of like when I was in Russia

592
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: as this guy sure was like our best player, and

593
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: my first trip to Moscow, like I didn't speak worried

594
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: Russian and he didn't speak English, and he comes up

595
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: to me like we got out the plane and goes

596
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: McDonald's and I was like, yes, let's go McDonald's. And

597
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: I just followed him around Moscow. He took me to McDonald's, right,

598
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: Like it's the same it's the same thing. Um okay,

599
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: So uh, It's like the whole thing is fascinating to

600
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: me about the the perception that most of America has

601
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: and the reality of what it's really like in big

602
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: time college basketball. I'm I'm not disputing that there are

603
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: a portion of guys who get money and that they'll

604
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: they'll you know that they skate the rules or whatever.

605
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: I operate on the presumption that g u is not

606
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: like that. I've never never had any whisper of anything.

607
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: When I played at two schools, it wasn't like that.

608
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: And we used to kind of take it as a

609
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: point of pride, right, like we you play against teams

610
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: you think are dirty, and it was like, we do

611
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: things the right way. We get up at six in

612
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: the morning and run was was there was that a

613
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: point of pride for Gonzaga And it wasn't just that

614
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: you guys built it, but you built it by everybody's estimation,

615
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: the right way. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah I can

616
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: you know, look you straight in the face on the

617
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: zoom call and say, uh, nobody got any type of

618
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: special treatment at Gonzaga when I was there, and nobody

619
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: has gotten any sense I mean, and that just speaks to, uh,

620
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: the level of expectations and the level of class that

621
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: coach few runs that program with. Um. You know, the

622
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: biggest difference between when I was there and now is

623
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: the amount of gear that Nike gives those guys. It's like,

624
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: good lord, this is ridiculous. You talked about the sweats

625
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: to start the season my red shirt year, Doug, I

626
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: had hand me down sweats that were a size too small,

627
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: and if you can believe that they were a size

628
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: too small, I'm always six ft and so I went

629
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 1: from hand me down sweats my red shirt ear my

630
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: senior year. Finally Nike started sending shoes in multiple shipments

631
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: throughout the season, so I was taking care of fun.

632
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: Now you look at what these guys have. You'll go

633
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: into the locker room, dud dudes eight pairs of shoes

634
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: in their lockers, like they've got probably twelve dry fits.

635
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: Sure they're geared up like an NBA team, right. I

636
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: mean it's like, hey, Tommy, b Mike, throw me some

637
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: gear and uh, I obviously with COVID can't get down

638
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: to practice and kind of, you know, pitch them hell

639
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: for for not having the latest gear. But it's like,

640
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: holy cow, what what don't these programs have? Now? Real quick?

641
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: Favorite hoop shoes you've ever hooped in? Who you know? Um?

642
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: I think the Kobe fives are pretty darn good. Um,

643
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: the Jordan's, the patent leather ones. I wore those. I

644
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: would promise senior year you really, Yeah, yeah, I wore

645
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: the I had the all white ones in college. I

646
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: wore those, and my family got me the black black

647
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: ones with the with the bright red for Christmas last

648
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: year and I've only worn them once. And my kids

649
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: is like, why don't you wear those more? My son

650
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: who's fourteen, he gets and he's like, take care of those, dad.

651
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: Everyone else was like, how come you don't worry. I

652
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: was like, you know, but I got I got those

653
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: for him like three or four years ago, and all

654
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: of a sudden, now he wants a sneaker collection, you know,

655
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: And he's like, Dad, I'm sorry, I didn't know. You

656
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: got me some cool kicks. Do you still have those?

657
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: Is like, no, man, you're your mom gave those away.

658
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: She you said you said you didn't like him, and

659
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: I was like, you're He's like, I was crazy. I

660
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: didn't know. I'm so sorry. Like you were like seven

661
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: at the time, like what a my? What am I?

662
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: What am I gonna do? Um? Uh? Your senior years

663
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: fascinating to me because you pretty much balled out. Like

664
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: my memory of it was you dominated college basketball, like

665
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: you're the best player. It was musty TV. But what's

666
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: interesting about it is. It started bad, it ended bad,

667
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: right You lost to Illinois first game of the year,

668
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: you lost to WYOI you were badly underseated and lost

669
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: to Wyoming in the pit. So now years later, and

670
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I'm bringing up bad memories, but like that's

671
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: how our minds work. Right now, years later, do you

672
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: do you think of all the amazing nights right and that,

673
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: all the winds and all the dudes you gave it to,

674
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: or do you ever get trapped in the losses a little? Both?

675
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, um, you know, going into

676
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: that senior year, I knew that, um, I was going

677
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 1: to have a chance to have a really good year.

678
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: I played for USA Basketball in the world your university

679
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: games right beforehand. I struggled during that tournament, and I

680
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: think it kind of lit a fire under me even more,

681
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: um in the preseason to make sure that I was

682
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: prepared and and ready to go to have a great year.

683
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: And you mentioned, you know, the opening season loss we

684
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: went to to Illinois and Frank Williams was another one

685
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: of those kind of solid point guards that was getting

686
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: a lot of recognition. I played well, um, but they

687
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: were just bigger and better than us UH that day. Um,

688
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: we we ended up. I think we at one point

689
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: we had like a winning streak. That season was with

690
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: UH San Diego, who was really good at the time. Um.

691
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: You know, I had a couple of really nice UH

692
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: nonconference wins, in particular St. Joe's We beat them at

693
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: the buzzs buzzer, not off the buzzer in the last

694
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: ten seconds of the game when they had Jamir Nelson,

695
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: Delonte West, Marvin O'Connor. They were really good. That was

696
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: the year before. I believe they were thirty one and

697
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: oh or whatever it was to start the season. Um.

698
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, you mentioned that that Wyoming game, and to

699
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,919
Speaker 1: this day I can honestly say that was the most

700
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: disappointing loss. Um, one of two most disappointing losses in

701
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: my career. The other would have been high school state

702
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: semifinal game. But the Wyoming game, I mean, you gotta

703
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: be kidding me. The n c A Tournament Selection Committee,

704
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: who later years later I found out, UH, the Arizona

705
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: A d UM was kind of heading it up, and

706
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: I've I don't know how badly I want to put

707
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: this out there, but I heard that he wanted Gonzaga

708
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: put in their place. Um from second hand sources, so

709
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how direct that is, but he wasn't

710
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: happy about Gonzaga kind of continue to build their profile.

711
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: So we're ranked six in the country and we get

712
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: a sixth seed. A six seed for the sixth ranked

713
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: team in the country. Not only that, we have to

714
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: go play a conference champion in Wyoming at a gym

715
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: that is at elevation like their school, and a gym

716
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: that's in their conference New Mexico, Like that wouldn't happen

717
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: these days, with even more ore eyes on the n

718
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: c A tournament than than what there was, you know,

719
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: twenties some years ago. So you know, I do sound

720
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: bitter and frustrated because I am. I that was the

721
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: worst draw that I can remember an n c A tournament,

722
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: either being around or really kind of looking at and

723
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: be like, wow, that one's weird, you know. So that

724
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: being said that, that was a bad draw. But at

725
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: the at the end of the day, we played our

726
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: worst game of the year by far, the worst game

727
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: of the year by far. Um. I think Blake and

728
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: I we both struggled. I I think I was like

729
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: six of twenty one or something from the field. Blake,

730
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: I don't even think was that good. We both struggled.

731
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: I think as a team we shot you know, upper twenties,

732
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: low thirties from the field, and we still had a

733
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: chance to win. We were still in the game in

734
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: the final minute, um, and we had played our worst

735
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: game of the year, and then you know, we just

736
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: couldn't get it done. That's uh that that to this day,

737
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: I have not watched that game in its entirety. Blake

738
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: was one of thirteen were and neither one and Corey

739
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: was and Corey was five or fourteen. Yeah, what was

740
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: RONI because Ronnie would have been a freshman, but he

741
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: wasn't played. He played twenty two minutes. He was one

742
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: of three, okay, And and that was big simply because, uh,

743
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: that Wyoming team had some dudes. They had some big

744
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: guys on the interior, Josh Davis who went on to

745
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: play a few years in the NBA. He was really good.

746
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: And then they had I'm drawing a blank on their

747
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: on the big guy's names. They had two big nights

748
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: uh uh uh san wu Amadi was one of them.

749
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: And then they had the little guards were Jay Straight

750
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: and Marcus Bailey did that. They did a good little

751
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: squad there like that. That was one of those that

752
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: was one of those confluence of you guys, it wasn't

753
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: just that you were underseated, but the Mountain West was

754
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: underseated for a long time. The Mountain West would get

755
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: my brothers at Sandigo State and they were like, dude,

756
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Like we gotta play like our

757
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: conference champion. US played Glenzaga like that. That didn't make

758
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: sense to them, let alone to you. Yeah, yeah, it's uh,

759
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: thanks for bringing that one, Doug. I do what I

760
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: can do. I look, dude, I mean almost all of

761
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: us lose our last game, you know, and and you

762
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: know the seeding thing is, I mean, hell with my

763
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: my first year in the tournament, we were picked last

764
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: and we end up winning the Big twelve South. We

765
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: we get a buy and we lose to Texas, who's

766
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: a ten seed in the Big Big twelve tournament, and

767
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: we get like an eight seed and we got Duke

768
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: in the second game. You know, So we beat George

769
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: Washington was good, they had Shanta Rogers, and then we

770
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: played Duke and you know, games tied to two and

771
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: a half minutes to go we I call it time out.

772
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: We did have a time out, but it was our

773
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: last time out because I couldn't. My coach was making

774
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: a sign that I we didn't have signs for plays,

775
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: and he's doing this, and what do you I don't

776
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: even know what you're talking about. So I call the

777
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: time out. We run a play. Our best player got

778
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: three open looks and just missed them. Um so I

779
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: I know the bad seating and then the how close

780
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 1: it is, and then look my last game, I could

781
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: not have We could not have played worst play. The

782
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: same Florida team you talked about only the year before,

783
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: and they have like if you go back and look,

784
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: they had like Matt bond or Deudonis has some Mike Miller.

785
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: I mean they had just Justin Hamilton's became a you know,

786
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: a second round pick. They had just dudes. But our

787
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: game playing with shitty, we played shitty. We had some

788
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: dudes that were sick and became sick whatever. But it

789
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: just it sucks. So here's the here's why I wanted

790
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: to get to that game. I think of all the

791
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: memories I have in sports, and there's a lot of

792
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: strong ones. One of the most emotional ones is being

793
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: in Syracuse, New York, in one of those locker rooms

794
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 1: and looking around at a bunch of guys and realizing

795
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna play with them again, and how much

796
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: I truly care about them as people and players, and

797
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: how unbelievable the experiences and how long it seems at

798
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: the time, Like you know how it is in college

799
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: basketbolly're like, funk, I gotta go to practice again. It's

800
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: called that like I don't I don't want to see them,

801
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: you know, or the film session or you know, scattering

802
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: port like dude, I don't need I know what they run.

803
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: I've done this enough, and then it's over, like the

804
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: it's you wake up. I mean, you experienced this in

805
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen. You're thinking about the fun it's over. Do

806
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: you remember in the pit after that game what that

807
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: feeling was like because you had, Like again, I cannot

808
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: undersell as much how great a year you had, But

809
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: then there's that feeling of I'm never gonna do this

810
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: with these guys again. Will you truly care about? Yeah,

811
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: I was crushing I remember, you know, with I don't know,

812
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds last or whatever on the on the game

813
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 1: clock and other team Wyomi shooting free throws. And Kyle Bankhead,

814
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: who you had mentioned earlier. Uh, he was my roommate

815
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: my senior year. I think we're Corey Violette was my

816
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: roommate on the road, but Kyle Bankhead was one of

817
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: my roommates back and Spokane. He's now assistant coach at

818
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: UNC Greensboro, kind of working his way up the coaching path.

819
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: But I remember the game is basically over fifteen seconds

820
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: or left. While shooting free throws. He puts his arm

821
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: around me and tears are just streaming down my face

822
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: because it's like, dude, it's over, just like you mentioned,

823
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: like in an instant, it's over. You know you worked

824
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: so hard. He put all the time and effort and

825
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: energy and passion into, UH having the best career, having

826
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: the best season that you can have. And then the

827
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: disappointment because I knew we had I didn't have a

828
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: great game, and I knew we didn't have a good game,

829
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: and how much it meant to all of us to

830
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: to kind of advanced in the NC tournament, not just

831
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: the first round, but as far as possible, um gonzag

832
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: at that point, we still were I don't think we

833
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: were we weren't true Final four worthy type of program,

834
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: but we've leaved it that year without a doubt. We

835
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: believed it and so and and that's the biggest thing

836
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: in sports as well as in anything in life. If

837
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: you believe it, you can go out and achieve it. Um.

838
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: But you know, it was just crushing to to to

839
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: lose that game and then walk up the long tunnel

840
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: ramp away there and get in the locker room and

841
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: just remember in the uh, you know, I don't remember

842
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: what Coach few said, I don't remember what Coach Career said,

843
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: but I just remember just a completely crushed and defeated

844
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: group of guys, like we couldn't believe that it just

845
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: ended a magical season, just ended the way it had Um.

846
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: But you're right, I mean you, I mean, you walk

847
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: out of that locker room and all of a sudden,

848
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: you know you're no longer a college basketball player. And

849
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: for me, I was like, wow, okay, well, you know,

850
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: it does look like I'm going to be going to

851
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: the NBA. My my dad at the time had kind

852
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: of started talking to some agents and trying to kind

853
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: prepare me to make a decision in those regards. But

854
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: you know he wanted me to talk about it like

855
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: that night. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about?

856
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: We just lost Give me some time. UM. So you

857
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: know it was it was you know, those are some

858
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: bittersweet moments, but definitely a crushing feeling when when you

859
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: know it's over because it meant so much. How did

860
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: you How did you pick your agent? Um? So, as

861
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: I had mentioned my dad at the time, UM kind

862
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: of whittled it down to about five alongside conversations with

863
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: coach Few who who they felt was was really good.

864
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: And after that it was really it was gonna be

865
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: on me to make the decision UM, with input from

866
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: my fiance who is now my wife. Um So came

867
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: down to uh Mark Bartlestein, who ended up being my

868
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: play my agent all my years later, I'm still with

869
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: his agency, who represents me on the broadcasting side or

870
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: coaching if I ever go that path. Uh. And then

871
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: I talked to Bill Duffy at length a number of

872
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: times he was a finalist. I talked to Aaron Goodwin

873
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: UM and met with him a number of times, who

874
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest agents at the time right

875
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: around there. Yet Jamal Crawford Damonstodomyer, Gary Payton, he was

876
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: the guy who had Lebron coming out of high school.

877
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 1: UM aren't tell Um and Bob Meyers were the other

878
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: tandem UM that that I kind of was was down to.

879
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting and unique selection process because at

880
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: the end of the day, they can all offer you

881
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: almost the same thing. UM. You know, they all, if

882
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: they're as respected as that group was, they're all going

883
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 1: to basically get the same intel from front offices. They're

884
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: gonna get you in the same workouts with with with

885
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: teams leading up to the draft. They're all gonna help

886
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: you prepare as best you can. UM. At that point,

887
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: it just comes down to who are you most comfortable with,

888
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 1: Who do you think has your back more than other guys.

889
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: And you know, Bill Duffy had also signed Jay Williams

890
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: that year, UM, and I kind of felt like, okay,

891
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: well we're two point guards. He's probably gonna push inside

892
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: with with Jay Williams. UM, if there's any marketing opportunities

893
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: come come about. UM, you know the same thing with

894
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: with you know, some of those other guys. I just

895
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: felt like Mark Bartlestein gave me his word that that

896
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: year I was going to be the only point guard

897
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: that he was gonna represent in the draft. I trusted him.

898
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: I looked at the track record of guys that he

899
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: had had in the draft up until then. UM, guys

900
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: that kind of fit my Um, you know, I don't

901
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: want to say character, but fit my kind of mold

902
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: about what type of player I would be in the NBA.

903
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: And and so I decided to go with him, and

904
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: it was a great choice. Um okay, So I kind

905
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: of ironically you couldn't get into the Hawks game because

906
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: you didn't have a ticket, and you go and do

907
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: an interview with Fast forward two years later and you're

908
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: a rookie with the Hawks and now you don't actually

909
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: have to ask for tickets. They give you tickets. Uh,

910
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: what was it like? Like? What first was it like

911
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: when you see your name selected and I know you

912
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: knew you were going to be selected? What what is

913
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: that actually like? Ah? Exhilarating, to be honest with you.

914
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 1: So choose Bartlestein as my agent. Moved back to Chicago

915
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: to continue to prepare to work out and use that

916
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: as a home base to travel to NBA team workouts

917
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: before the draft. I could have stayed in Spokane. But

918
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Say I have a I've

919
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: got a pre draft workout with, say the Celtics or

920
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: the Raptors. Do you want to fly from Chicago and

921
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: go there or do you want to fly from Spokane.

922
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: So I lived in Chicago for for a while, um

923
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: during that process, and I think I had seventeen predraft

924
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: workouts and my name was all over the board. I mean,

925
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: I think the earliest, honestly, I probably could have felt

926
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: I would have gone would have been about the sixteen

927
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: seventeen mark um, where I think the Wizards had a

928
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: pick and they ended up taking one Dixon. Um. I

929
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: know I had two workouts with the Wizards. They liked

930
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: me a lot, but ended up going with Wan and no,

931
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: he had a good career. Um. The ironically, the Hawks

932
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: never never worked me out. They didn't have a first

933
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: round pick, so they didn't think I was going to

934
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 1: be an option for them. But even though they really

935
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: liked me. Um. So the day of the draft, things

936
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: get going at my parents house kind of a party. Um.

937
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: You know, there's quite a few people, their news crews

938
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: and different things, and you know, you start paying closer

939
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: attention once you get to about fifteen sixteen, because that's okay,

940
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: you're starting to open up into the window you think

941
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: you might go. And every draft something happens. A guy

942
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: goes way higher than expected, or a European guy that

943
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: really nobody um that are putting together all these mock

944
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: drafts really know, goes and it kind of sends some

945
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: some changes and other organization's depth charts. Okay, well that

946
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: now we don't we're not going here. This guy is

947
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: still available, and it just changes things. So I became

948
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: kind of the guy who started to slide because a

949
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: lot of the teams in that next little grouping of

950
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: of of selections didn't they either had two point guards

951
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: already on their roster or um you know, they had

952
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: already had promises to other guys in the draft, whether

953
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: it was a big or a wing or whatever. And

954
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: so I started getting a little concerned. A little word,

955
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: you go out in the backyard and shoot a little

956
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: bit clear my mind. And this whole time, I'm staying

957
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: in touch with my agent kind of talking did you

958
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 1: still have the three hoops? Know? Because at this point

959
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: we were living in Vancouver. My parents lived in Vancouver,

960
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: not in Portland. Good memory I like it. So, uh.

961
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: We were staying in touch with my agent throughout and

962
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: he said, look, I don't know a lot of what

963
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: some of these other teams are gonna do. They're playing

964
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: it close, but I do know that Atlanta is doing

965
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: everything they can to get a first round pig. And

966
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: I said, Atlanta, I never worked out there. He goes, yeah,

967
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: they wanted to bring you in, but we never did

968
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 1: it because they didn't have a first round pick. Well,

969
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: now it looks like there's an opportunity for them to

970
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: select you. They're trying to make a pick. And so

971
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: that happened from like I want to say, draft selection

972
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: number twenty one on and so finally with the Kings

973
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: in Sacramento, the Kings agreed to make that trade and

974
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: make that selection of me. So uh, it was. It was.

975
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: It was a fun day. It was exhilarating because you

976
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: hear your name called by David Stern, But it was

977
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: a very stressful day because you, honestly, you have no

978
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: idea what's happening. Your first welcome to the NBA moment

979
00:52:51,920 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: was what, uh, well, I mean Summer League. I got

980
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: in Uh, I got in a fight in the game

981
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: with Richard Jefferson. I set a back pick on him.

982
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: He didn't like it. He kind of tackled me on

983
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: the backscreen because he had complained that I was setting

984
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: a number of other UH screens before her the in

985
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: the game. So he kind of tackles me on the

986
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 1: on the on the back screen and we both get tossed.

987
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: I think that was my second Summer League game back

988
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: in Boston, um, you know, but I think the first

989
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: one when would have been my my the first true

990
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: NBA road trip. Rookies have to go do something for

991
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: vets or the or the equipment manager, and my mine

992
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: on the first trip was I had to go put

993
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: everybody's equipment bag outside their door about an hour before

994
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: the bus left for shoot around that morning. So I'm

995
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: wide eyed rookie. I was like, all right, I'll just

996
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: I'll knock on everybody's door and make sure they, you know,

997
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: have their gear. Well, go through about half of them

998
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: and I get Big Dog Glenn Robinson's room and I

999
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: knock on the door and there's no answer and a

1000
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: knock on the door, and stupid me, I should have

1001
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: just dropped it on the hallway and walked away. Door

1002
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: opens and some chicks in there. I'm like, this is

1003
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,479
Speaker 1: my double check my list, like who's in the wet room?

1004
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: And because I know Glenn's you know, he lives in Atlanta,

1005
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: he's single, whatever, and I'm it's like I'm confused at

1006
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: this point, and she's like, can I help you. I'm

1007
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: like Glenn here, She's like, who's Glenn. It's a big

1008
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: dog and so and so I hear Glenn. I hear

1009
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: big dog from around the corner. Oh, just leave my

1010
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: gear right there. So I dropped the gear. I walked away.

1011
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: And the rest of the year, whenever I had to

1012
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: do uh equipment like that, all I would do is

1013
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: dropped the gear on the floor, knock one time, and

1014
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: walk away. The rest of it was on them to

1015
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: make sure they had their gear. I had. Here's just it.

1016
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna it was. It was with the Bulls, right,

1017
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: I'm watching the last dance, right, So, uh, Corey Williams

1018
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: was it was the first round draft pick from Oklahoma

1019
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: State and he tells and they called him, uh peanut.

1020
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 1: And because he was a rookie with with those teams peanut,

1021
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: he didn't have any money for the gambling, so he

1022
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: held the money that was his job, his his year

1023
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: with the Bulls, he held the money. But he tells

1024
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: the story that, um, when he was a rookie, he

1025
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: was just basically there, you know, whatever they needed. They

1026
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: would call him at any hour, like your peanut, I

1027
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: need this, peanut, I need that peanut, come to my room,

1028
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: peanut whatever. So he gets the call to go get

1029
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: some uh protection for one of the one of the

1030
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: one of the one of the veteran players. And he

1031
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: knocks on the door. Nobody answers. He knocks on the door.

1032
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: He's about the same thing. Is he about to leave it?

1033
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 1: The door opens, it's his teammate. It's got a hockey

1034
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: mask on, got a hockey stick and nothing else. Thanks,

1035
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: Peanut grabs the bag, closes the door. So a little

1036
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: different than yours, but there's some there's some similarities there. Um,

1037
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: you're born, grew up in Portland, than to Vancouver. Was

1038
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 1: the first you get to play for the Portland Trailblazer twice.

1039
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: But what was that like? I mean for a guy

1040
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: who played against Portland Trailblazers at Green Valley Athletic Club

1041
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: right to now be playing for the Portland Trailblazers. A

1042
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of cool things in your career.

1043
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: I'd have to imagine that's the coolest. No, it was.

1044
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. Um, And I think you know, And

1045
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: actually I always kind of answer a similar question in

1046
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: the way that I'm that kid who, um kind of

1047
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: not only reached their dream, but like the ultimate dream, Like, yeah,

1048
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: I always want to play in the NBA, but I

1049
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 1: really wanted to play for the Blazers, and I did

1050
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 1: it twice, like you mentioned, but I also did it

1051
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: a third time as a coach, So I actually can

1052
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: kind of flip it and say, I'm the only kid

1053
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: who reached their goal three times but then got fired

1054
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: three times because they traded me as a player twice

1055
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: and fired me as a player development coach when when

1056
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: the news staff with Terry Stotts came in, But um,

1057
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: I remember it was leading into All Star Break, my

1058
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: my second year in the NBA, where um, my minutes

1059
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: were up and down, fluctuating in Atlanta. Um, I didn't

1060
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: fit Terry Stott's eyes a backup point guard, so I

1061
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect. But in the first half

1062
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: of our lad of my last game in Atlanta, I

1063
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: played really well, and I didn't get in in the

1064
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: second half. And I get in the car and I'm pissed, Like,

1065
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean, my wife actually told the story to somebody

1066
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: a little bit ago. Um, I'm like, I'm I'm like

1067
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: unbelievably ticked off as I I should have gotten the

1068
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: second half, Like why the hell did I not play?

1069
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: This is dumb, right? And then I get a phone

1070
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: call about an hour after I get home late that

1071
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: night in Atlanta, and uh it was Billy King, the

1072
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: GM of the Hawks, and he said, Dan, I just

1073
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: wanted to let you know we've traded you. I'm like, okay.

1074
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm sure you wanted to you were you

1075
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: You should have played the second half, but you didn't

1076
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: know what was going on. Um. We also treated Sharif

1077
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: of Dourraheim and Theo Ratliff with you to Portland's and

1078
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: I just lost it. I'm like, Portland, what are you serious?

1079
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: And he said, we we couldn't play you in the

1080
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: second half because if you would have gotten hurt, the

1081
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: deal would have been blown up. It would been off

1082
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: the table. Anybody said if Sharif or THEO didn't play,

1083
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: everybody knew something was up. So we had those two

1084
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: had to play and he said they were like sitting

1085
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: there on pins and needles hoping that neither one of

1086
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: those guys got hurt. Um. And so that night my

1087
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: wife and I literally pulled an all night or packing

1088
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: uh to get back home and uh going back to

1089
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: going back to Portland. It was awesome. What what do

1090
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: you remember about putting on that jersey for the first time. Well,

1091
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: I remember the press conference where they kind of announced

1092
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: the three of us and brought myself and THEO and

1093
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: Sharif in front of the media, and um, I think

1094
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: it was like at three pm or something like that.

1095
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:34,439
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I get there like one thirty, like like, hey,

1096
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, traffic is getting really bad in Portland these days.

1097
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to be late. I was so early,

1098
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: like I didn't know what to do. Um. But then

1099
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, the fact of getting that jersey on, um

1100
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: was awesome. I mean I remember the first practice like literally, UM,

1101
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: I I probably smiled the whole practice long, even though

1102
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: we were with bunch of dudes that year that UM,

1103
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, if you smile, he'd be like, what what

1104
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: the hell is wrong with you? You know, I mean

1105
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: we had a We had an interesting group in Portland,

1106
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: that's for sure. What what what is that? What is

1107
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: that like though? Because when you got there, that was

1108
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: kind of the end of the the jail Blazer's era,

1109
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: right and you know, and so what what is that

1110
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: like to be you go into a culture and you know,

1111
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: I know Reef really well, like he's a good, really

1112
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: smart dude. Theo is a great defensive player, right, Like

1113
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: they bring in three solid guys. What is that like

1114
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: to now you're in am you know, and I don't

1115
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: know what Atlanta was like, but it is a different

1116
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: vibe there. What what what was that experience? Like? Well,

1117
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: you're right, and the fact that it was at the

1118
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: end of that quote unquote jail Blazer's era. I mean,

1119
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: Rashid kind of had run his his welcome in Portland

1120
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: and so he was he played one game in Atlanta

1121
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: before then they shipped him on to Detroit and he

1122
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: ended up winning a title with the Pistons. But you know,

1123
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: they had also traded Bonzi Wells to who you know,

1124
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: had some issues with people in the in the Portland

1125
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: area in the media. Um, but when you look at

1126
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: the other guys that were still there, Damon is a

1127
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: guy that I knew going back to since right out

1128
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: of high school, and he was always supportive of me,

1129
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: and he mentored me to to a certain extent in

1130
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: our time in Portland, um you know. And I thought

1131
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: he got a bad rap in Portland's um for being, ah,

1132
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, a part of some of the things. I mean,

1133
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: he's doing a tremendous job as a college coach now,

1134
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: um you know. But I think the two biggest interesting

1135
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: guys that we had on those Portland rosters were Ruden

1136
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: Patterson and uh and and Zack Randolph. I mean, Zach

1137
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: played against him in college. Um and I you know,

1138
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: I always found him to be a nice guy, but

1139
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: he could also be steered in the wrong, wrong directions

1140
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: if he didn't have great leaders around him. He became

1141
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: a great leader by the end of his career because

1142
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: he was around enough good guys that he kind of

1143
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: really truly learned the way. And then Ruben Patterson was

1144
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: It was interesting because I always seem to be in

1145
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: a game with him at the same time because of

1146
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: how rotations work. And I swear to you you've you've

1147
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: played with guys before that they'll tell you they're open

1148
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: the whole entire possession, and it was like every possession

1149
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: like I'm bringing a ball down the floor. He's barking him.

1150
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm hoping, I'm hoping, I'm hoping. It was like, dude, still,

1151
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: he'd break out of a play like you know, Mo

1152
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: Cheeks would call whatever it is, you know, horns twist

1153
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: and and you know he's supposed to be in one

1154
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: spot and point guard brings over here and comes back

1155
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: off and you know he saw something, so he broke

1156
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 1: out of the play and he ducked in and into

1157
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: the post and if you didn't throw it to him,

1158
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: you're running back down Courtney's hollering at you. Um, you

1159
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: know that was just rubing. I mean it was interesting,

1160
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Um, when you when you popped your achilles,

1161
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: like it takes a lot for six ft white dude

1162
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 1: to make it in the n b A and you

1163
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: kind of you know you're with the Celtics, you pop

1164
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: your achilles? Is there there were based upon what you did?

1165
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: There was no defeatist mindset, right, But was there a

1166
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: moment where you're sitting there and you're looking at your

1167
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: leg and you're like maybe that's it? No, there wasn't

1168
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, because I had I had

1169
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: issues with my achilles for a couple of years leading

1170
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: up until when I popped it. Um. I was seeing um.

1171
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: You know, I had what was called ascitron um uh

1172
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: therapy on my achilles a year and a half prior UM.

1173
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: I had gone through a number of different things that

1174
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of alleviate pressure and tension and help my achilles

1175
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: feel as good as it could. And oddly enough, the

1176
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: day that I tore it, I felt as good as

1177
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: I had in years at pregame warm ups and I

1178
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: even told our trainer Eddie Lessert with the Celtics, I said, dude,

1179
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: I feel great today. Whatever we're doing rehab wise, we

1180
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: need to keep going with it. Lo and behold first half,

1181
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: catching the outlet, pass take two steps and pop. I

1182
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: thought somebody stepped on my my heel. Um took another step.

1183
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: Oh man, somebody must not have stepped on me. Nobody's

1184
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: around me. Took another one. Was like, okay, this isn't right.

1185
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: I can't move, and so I passed it. I went

1186
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: down on the floor. And you know, they don't want

1187
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: to tell you it's torn until you get back into

1188
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: the end of the locker room. But you kind of know,

1189
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: you're like, hey, no one's around you. I've been having issues.

1190
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: There's something's going on. Um. And even back in the

1191
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: locker room, Eddie didn't want to say hey, it's torn

1192
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: until we got the m R I the next day

1193
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: back in Boston. But I, oddly enough, I not once

1194
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: did I think that was the end of my career.

1195
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: Not once did I sit there and cry. You know

1196
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: I I yeah, I had hurt like crazy, especially once

1197
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: we got into onto a flight home and the pressurized

1198
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: cabin was just unbearable. Um. But you know, it was

1199
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: one of those things where I talk to myself, well,

1200
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: here's another thing I have to overcome in my career.

1201
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things I'm most proud

1202
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: of is once I returned from that injury, Um, I

1203
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: never missed another practice or game because of my achilles when, um,

1204
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 1: when you watch how Trey Young plays now, and Trey

1205
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: I think, I look, Steph has been able and he's

1206
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: incredible at it, but he's been able to kind of

1207
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: break through a barrier of like what's a good shot

1208
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 1: right now? You know? And and I mean shots he

1209
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: takes and then Obviously Damian Lillard, the distance that he's shooting,

1210
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: there's I'd have to think based upon your ability to

1211
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: shoot playoff ball screens, to do all the things that

1212
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: those guys can do, I have to think there's a

1213
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: little bit of a dude, I was born like ten

1214
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: years too soon? Right? Is there is there any because

1215
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: the sport has really changed and what what coaches allow

1216
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: in terms of shot selection has changed. And part of

1217
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: it is these guys make a percentage. We're like, look,

1218
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 1: I used to be a bad shot, but if you're

1219
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: gonna make you of them from three, then what am

1220
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: I to do? Is there is there a part of

1221
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: you that looks and watching and goes like I just

1222
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: born too soon. Yeah, Occasionally, you know, you watch the

1223
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: game and just see how free flowing it is and

1224
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: the ability to shoot deep threes in transition and how

1225
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: many ball screens are happening in the space that's on

1226
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: the floor, and also, you know, quite frankly, the fact

1227
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: that a lot of games there's there the emphasis on

1228
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: defense isn't what it was when I was coming into

1229
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: the NBA. Um you know. But at the same time,

1230
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: I can't complain too much because I had a tremendous run.

1231
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: I had an opportunity to play in the NBA and

1232
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: achieve a goal in the dream. But I will say

1233
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: this my so, my my rookie year, Um, I had

1234
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: any surgery to scope of meniscus. I'm missed, you know,

1235
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: six weeks or so. In that time, Lon Krueger gets fired.

1236
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: Terry Stotts comes in as a head coach. Um, Terry Stotts.

1237
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: We ran a lot of uh ISOs for Glenn Robinson.

1238
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: We ran a lot of cross treen actions to bring

1239
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: Sharif to the block. We ran a lot of what's

1240
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: called hawk cuts, UM on the strong side and then

1241
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: get to a second side action. Yeah. And his his

1242
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: message to me was this, you're my backup point guard.

1243
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: And this was my my rookie year and then the

1244
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: soft second year before I got traded the Portland Trailblazers,

1245
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: who oddly enough he's with the Blazers now in his

1246
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: system is completely different. But his message to me is

1247
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 1: a backup point guard, was this, if you were if

1248
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: if our team is up by four when you go in,

1249
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: if when I check you back out, you're not up.

1250
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: We're not up four. The blame is on you and

1251
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, that makes no sense. But that was

1252
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: his message. And then the next out of his message

1253
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: was I want my my backup point guard to pick

1254
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: up and only take open shots. And I'm like, that's

1255
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: not my game. So because that what he wanted, and

1256
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: because that wasn't my game my rookie year, they went

1257
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: out and signed Jacque Vaughan Is as their backup point

1258
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: guard at Jason who all he does. All he does

1259
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: is facilitating guard downy And so you know, that's where

1260
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are like, Oh, you

1261
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: didn't do this or that when you're in No, I

1262
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: didn't have I didn't understand. I gotta, I gotta. I

1263
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: got a quick story for So my son's eleven. And

1264
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: so one day after a game three months ago, I

1265
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: sat these kids down and I explained to them what

1266
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: plus minus was, right, And I said, like, look, the

1267
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: two most important stats in basketball are kind of related.

1268
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: One is what the score is and what your personal

1269
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: plus minus is. Like all the other stuff I care about,

1270
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: you know, but I don't care about like does a

1271
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: team do better with you in the game then when

1272
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: you're not in the game. So I sort of God,

1273
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: So Saturday, uh, Sunday night. Sunday night. Um my son

1274
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: is playing. We're playing, he's playing. We have a seventh

1275
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: grade group and we're and he's in six he's a

1276
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: young sixth trader and he's like the backup point guard.

1277
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: And I kind of I added some of the sixth graders, uh,

1278
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: to show him because the seventh grader is such a

1279
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: there's a big jump between the two ages in terms

1280
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: of skill level, ability to run an offense too, to

1281
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 1: physicality and bodies and all that stuff. So I wanted

1282
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: them to see kind of what it looks like. So

1283
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: we played a team and we could have beat him

1284
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: by a hundred if I wanted to press or whatever.

1285
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: But I just wanted them to play good basketball, run offense,

1286
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: play man to man, press and and just guard somebody, right,

1287
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: And we didn't play very well. I think we end

1288
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: up winning by twelve, and we had beaten the same

1289
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: team by like thirty five the last time we played him.

1290
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: We didn't have even our best players. So we have

1291
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: an hour in between games, and he's really down, really down,

1292
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 1: and so uh, you know with COVID, but you can't

1293
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: stay in the gym. I can't, So you're better off

1294
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: it was cold outside. Let's just go in the car.

1295
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: So go in the car. And I was like, what

1296
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: is the matter with you? Dad? My plus minus is terrible?

1297
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: I was like, what. I went into the game, We're

1298
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: up sixteen. I come out of the game, We're up thirteen.

1299
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: I was like, look, you just learned a very valuable lesson. Okay,

1300
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody told you this, but plus minus can

1301
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: be a little bit of bullshit because you actually there's nothing.

1302
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: You didn't turn the ball over. You know, you missed

1303
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: a shot, but it was a good shot, Like it

1304
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 1: was a shot, you played defense, you did everything I

1305
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: want Like I didn't. My mind mad at you. Then

1306
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: I get on him when he's like anyway he was,

1307
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: He was like, my plus minus was just anyway, played

1308
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: really well the second game. But the plus minus thing

1309
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: is fascinating. And the thing is fascinating because guys are

1310
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: so locked in their head for for what you're supposed

1311
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: to be in instead of trying to figure out what

1312
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: you can be right, like what you can um Okay,

1313
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: a couple of quick ones that I want to get to,

1314
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: g U. I want to get to a couple of

1315
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: things business wise for you. Uh, First, coolest dude that

1316
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: you played within the NBA that people don't would know

1317
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: this guy is an awesome guy or just the greatest. Um. Well,

1318
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: Scalabrini is the easy one because he's so personalble and

1319
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: he's in the media now. Uh. And he's a Washington guy,

1320
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 1: so we had a lot of connections before teammates in Boston. Uh.

1321
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 1: You know, I think you know for me. Uh, I

1322
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: was only in Dallas for a short bit. But Dirk

1323
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: Navinski is the real deal. He is a great dude, unbelievable,

1324
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 1: I mean, great leader, great teammate. UM. He's got the

1325
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: greatest work ethic. He's unbelievably loyal obviously by staying with

1326
01:11:55,680 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: Dallas UM all those years. UM. And I said, I

1327
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: was only there a short bit. But about two years

1328
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: ago I went back. I was in Dallas for a

1329
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: broadcast and I was at SMU, but during the morning

1330
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: I went to the Mavericks to Go facility to watch practice,

1331
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: and I was sitting there with Donnie Nelson just kind

1332
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: of talking basketball for forty minutes or so, and then

1333
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: practices over and dirt comes over and we just talked

1334
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 1: for like fifteen minutes. And I hadn't seen Dirk in

1335
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: a long time. Um, you know we're teammates for for

1336
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: a few months is all. But that that really impressed me, Like,

1337
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 1: you know what, Um, that that was awesome. Have you

1338
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: ever seen anything like his shooting routine with his shooting coach,

1339
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: every everything. I like that that thing, I've I've seen

1340
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: videos of it. Oh yeah, it's uh and it's real.

1341
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: I mean I know you people see those videos and

1342
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, he doesn't do that all the time. No,

1343
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: he does that all the time. Um. You know the

1344
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: rolling hooks, the roll the ball out and kind of

1345
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: the deep knee bend into his shots. How he works

1346
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: on on that one legged fade away, Um, all that stuff.

1347
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 1: It's almost a daily routine for him. Best coach you

1348
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: played for in the NBA, Uh you know what I mean.

1349
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 1: It's so indicative of of how you were successful. So

1350
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: for me, Byron Scott was great because I was able

1351
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: to play a lot. But it's because the system me

1352
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 1: ran the Princeton offense. I could read and re read

1353
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: screens and react to it. I could understand it and

1354
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 1: I could influence the offense to a certain extent if

1355
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: I wanted a shot. Okay, I'm gonna throw the ball

1356
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: there and come off this screen. Um. You know, so,

1357
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: so that would have been good, which is your preference?

1358
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: And if I wanted to pick and roll, I'm going chin.

1359
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: I'm throwing the ball to the to the other two

1360
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: garden and telling him, hey, bring it up and run

1361
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: chin fifteen otherwise elbow. Uh. You know I really liked uh.

1362
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: And then Mike Dunlevy was a basketball savant to me,

1363
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: Like every every action on the court, whether it's a

1364
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: down screen and up screen, up backs screen, across screen

1365
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: has a number attached to it. And like say a

1366
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: cross screen, uh is a is a twelve, A down

1367
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 1: screen is a six. If he wants to screen the

1368
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: screener action, it's an eighteen. So it's twelve plus six. Um.

1369
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: Just unbelievable basketball line. Um, is there you have any

1370
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: regrets to your NBA career? No, I I really don't.

1371
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: You know. I think if there was one, it would

1372
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 1: be shoot more. You know, I mean, if you look

1373
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: at it. Sometimes maybe I did get kind of bogged

1374
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 1: down in in in being h a true teammate, uh,

1375
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: in trying to do what was asked of me by

1376
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 1: the coaching staff to to run a play as opposed

1377
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 1: to occasionally be a little bit more you know, selfish

1378
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,759
Speaker 1: and looking for my own shots. But at the same time,

1379
01:14:53,560 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, not everybody has the opportunities to or the

1380
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 1: freedom to break out, because what if I broke out

1381
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: and I missed a shot, won't guess what I was

1382
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: probably coming back to the bench. Um, there's very few

1383
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: guys in the NBA that really have the freedom that

1384
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 1: most people think that they have. Yeah, I do. I do.

1385
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 1: One of the things I really enjoyed about professional basketball

1386
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: is when you saw somebody and you knew he was

1387
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: coming to get you. You were getting a shot up,

1388
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: and kind of everybody knew that was happening, right, Like

1389
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: you see the guy check it in for you, like,

1390
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: or if you're at the free throw line you miss

1391
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: it on purpose, Yeah, because you guys, they're gonna come

1392
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: up for you. Dan dick I was made seventeen free throws. Wow,

1393
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:38,639
Speaker 1: he just missed one. That's the announcer drinks like, no, man,

1394
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: they're about to take him out. That's exactly exactly what happened. Um,

1395
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 1: I gu this year is gonna take on Iowa this weekend.

1396
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:56,640
Speaker 1: We think we think um first, right first, this g

1397
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: u squad. Now, what fans do is they always impair

1398
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 1: him to old gu squads, right, but they can't. They

1399
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 1: don't they don't actually play each other. The landscape of

1400
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:10,759
Speaker 1: the sport is so incredibly different, right, Um, what having

1401
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: seen them far more than anybody else, obviously not able

1402
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 1: to get to practice as much because of COVID, but

1403
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 1: now seeing them, what, what are your thoughts on on

1404
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 1: in mid December on the squad tremendous balance? Um, You

1405
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: know a lot of people were kind of curious what

1406
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: was going to happen in the front court with Patricia leaving. Yeah,

1407
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: that's a big loss, but it also is a big

1408
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 1: opportunity that's opened up for Timmy and he's been tremendous

1409
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: the first few games of the year. Um would do

1410
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: I want to see one of the other young bigs

1411
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: either follow or uh Zacharov improved absolutely, and one of

1412
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 1: those two guys are gonna have to play and play

1413
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: well against Garza with Iowa because he's a monster. But

1414
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 1: if you look at the rest of the gu kind

1415
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 1: of rotation, I mean, kiss Burt's done with what so

1416
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: many Gonzaga players have on before, just gradually improve over

1417
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: your course of time, and then once it becomes you

1418
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 1: become a bigger, bigger focal point of everything, which is

1419
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 1: about maybe midway through last year. And now he obviously

1420
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: is this year. You're ready for it, and he's absolutely

1421
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 1: ready for it. I mean, is his his his games,

1422
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: you know, continue to improve, his leadership is absolutely there.

1423
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: The same thing with the continues to show growth. But

1424
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: everybody's getting excited and rightfully sober suggs Um. You know,

1425
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: he's coming in to gonzag with such high expectations. You know,

1426
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:40,759
Speaker 1: top five national recruits, has never had a top thirty

1427
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: national recruit, and now you're getting sugs Um. I mean,

1428
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 1: he plays at his own pace. He's very athletic, but

1429
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 1: he plays in his own pace, and he plays um

1430
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: with kind of a sense of control in him. That's

1431
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: basically just showing the that I'm in charge. I've got this.

1432
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of times you're you're really good,

1433
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,599
Speaker 1: you're really athletic, and you try to force the action,

1434
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen that out of him yet. And

1435
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: you take a freshman your first game against Kansas and

1436
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: against a great defender and Garrett, and you put up

1437
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: the numbers that he had whatever it was, like twenty

1438
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: two points or whatever. Um, that's that's that's a great

1439
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: start tier college career. The biggest thing I think for

1440
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 1: Gonzaga I think this year will be is how consistent

1441
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: of play can they get um from the four. You know,

1442
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: Anton Watson had battled injuries last year. Um, I think

1443
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: he's he's got a chance to be a really good

1444
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: player there. How quickly can he kind of get back

1445
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: to the level that he was last season early before

1446
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: he got hurt. Um, because he's versatile, he can he

1447
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: can stretch the floor as a four, he can get

1448
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: out and guard anybody. He can run and transition. Um,

1449
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: So I think the that four is going to be

1450
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: interesting to see, um how well he improves as well

1451
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: do one of the other um young bigs that I

1452
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 1: mentioned improve enough where you know Timmy can also slide

1453
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,799
Speaker 1: in occasionally before Okay, so they're gonna play Iowa and

1454
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: I know you've seen him, and it's like there has

1455
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: to be from Gwnzaga fans like well, they they're kind

1456
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 1: of like we are. We used to be maybe a

1457
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 1: little bit like dudes that can are all skilled, right,

1458
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 1: all skilled? I mean like Garza is a scoring machine. Obviously,

1459
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 1: Bohannon is He's not what you worry. He's not the

1460
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,680
Speaker 1: passer of Blake, but the dude can stripe it. You know.

1461
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 1: We'see camp is he looks. There's a lot of guys

1462
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,640
Speaker 1: they have that kind of feel like Zags they just

1463
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: do to me. I don't, I don't know. Is that

1464
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: is that a crazy stingy I don't. I don't know

1465
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: any way want to offend a zag, but because it

1466
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: is more me secondhand, but that's what it feels like

1467
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 1: in watching them. No, I think that's a that's a

1468
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: great observation. I think the thing for people that have,

1469
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, paid close attention to college basketball over the years,

1470
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,479
Speaker 1: like yourself. One of the first things that comes to

1471
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 1: mind for Gonzaga players, and whether it's perimeter or interior,

1472
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 1: is their skilled They've got to have great footwork, They've

1473
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 1: got to have the ability to finish underneath. If you're

1474
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 1: a big with either hand, um have an abundance of

1475
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 1: moves down there on the perimeter. You're you're gonna have

1476
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,719
Speaker 1: to be a serviceable it's not a really good outside

1477
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: shooter and make the right place. And when you look

1478
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: at those Iowa guys that you just mentioned, they check

1479
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: a lot of those same boxes. And so I see

1480
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the same similarities that you're that you mentioned. Um,

1481
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: you have you have like all this. You have a

1482
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:40,640
Speaker 1: ton of business stuff going on, right, Like you had

1483
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: your barbershops. Don't you have your pod? You're doing broadcasting. Um,

1484
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:52,440
Speaker 1: life's busy. It is busy. You're a parent obviously, But

1485
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: but I also know when you love ball and you

1486
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 1: coach ball, it's a it's it's a drug, man, it's

1487
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:02,479
Speaker 1: really really hard. You're kind of Oh, it's like I

1488
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: tell people, you're always an addict, right, That's what they

1489
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 1: tell you about real addicts, like drug addicts. You're kind

1490
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: of always a addict. Is what you're doing? Now? Does

1491
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: that fulfill that need? Or is there ultimately going to

1492
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: be a need to be a coach? Great question? Um,

1493
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, my wife and I have talked about the

1494
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,679
Speaker 1: coaching thing before, and you know I've over the last

1495
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: five six years, I've I've had a couple of colleges

1496
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: reach out, um for assistant coach positions. I've had an

1497
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: NBA organization reach out on a player development position. UM.

1498
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 1: I would never say no to an opportunity to coach

1499
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: until I hear more about it. But I do know

1500
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 1: with all the things that I'm doing, um with with

1501
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,360
Speaker 1: the businesses of the barbers that you mentioned, and the

1502
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 1: broadcasting and my work with sp Live, which is where

1503
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, my my main podcast runs three times a

1504
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 1: week and we do a number of other things with them.

1505
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: That's where my time and attention goes right now. Um.

1506
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: And I know how much of a time demand and

1507
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: a drain it can be on coaches for themselves, but

1508
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: as well as as you know their families. UM. But

1509
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: none of that does fulfill the chance to be part

1510
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: of a win or a loss. And you get that

1511
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: as a coach now, I don't think it's necessarily the

1512
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: same as as a player, and I don't think they're

1513
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 1: meant to be the same because you have different roles

1514
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 1: within that. Um. But I think the biggest thing that

1515
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: the broadcasting does and that I that I appreciate about

1516
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: it is I stay as close to the game as

1517
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: I can without having to take the game home with

1518
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 1: me all the time. Um. You know, like for example,

1519
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: I've already done five pack twelve games uh this year,

1520
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: I've got probably six or seven more on that network.

1521
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:55,719
Speaker 1: I've got about twenty games coming up um on CBS

1522
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 1: Sports Network in addition to the Gonzager regional games. So

1523
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 1: I talked to enough coaches throughout the year to get

1524
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: my basketball fixed, um. And I'm around it enough um

1525
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 1: without taking it home with me. If if that makes sense,

1526
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: it does? It does? I think that the other part

1527
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: that you discussed, though, is the hard part, which is

1528
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 1: there is no win. There is no loss, right, and

1529
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: you almost missed the losses as much as the winds,

1530
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 1: because then then it becomes the jigsaw puzzle of all right,

1531
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: how do we fix the problem right? Whereas I've told

1532
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: coaches this all the time, like, look, if you don't

1533
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 1: want to coach again, don't call a game, because you

1534
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: call a game, especially when you're in the arenas. You

1535
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,600
Speaker 1: just you go to practice, you're around it, like you

1536
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: so badly want to grab a whiteboard and just go like, dude, this,

1537
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,679
Speaker 1: I swear to God, this will work right and get done.

1538
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: And you you just missed the highs and the lows.

1539
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,640
Speaker 1: You just it's very very hard. And I told her

1540
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: Remire this when he when he was at ESPN. He

1541
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 1: did the games, and I was like, dude, I knew

1542
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:56,839
Speaker 1: you were going back. Now he's in studio at Fox,

1543
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,120
Speaker 1: and I think he might be done because there's the

1544
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: second you step foot into a locker room or you're

1545
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 1: on the sideline for a big one, and you feel

1546
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,600
Speaker 1: the pain and the agony of losing the the absolute

1547
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 1: like a road win. I call, you call a game,

1548
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 1: and a team in a tough environment figures out a

1549
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 1: way to win a closer on the road. You're like, God,

1550
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: I wish I was on that flight home. I wish

1551
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 1: I was a part of that, because that's like the

1552
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,519
Speaker 1: most magical thing in our sport, right, which is the

1553
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 1: feeling of a road win. Um so yeah, and and

1554
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: I And then when you coach, like I coached the

1555
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: team you coach kids, or I coached the team in Israel,

1556
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,280
Speaker 1: you think that will fulfill the need. But that only

1557
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: makes it worse because now you're like, yeah, I love it.

1558
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:39,640
Speaker 1: I want more. I want more, I want more. So

1559
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: I do wonder if at some point, and and here's

1560
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 1: the here's the thing. I've I get that you and

1561
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,679
Speaker 1: I don't work in the film rooms and with the staff,

1562
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: But don't you feel more knowledgeable having watched a bunch

1563
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 1: of other teams practice as opposed to sitting on one

1564
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 1: bench and figuring out one way of doing things. Yeah,

1565
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: I would, I would agree with that. Um. You know,

1566
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 1: Coach FI and I have even had a number of

1567
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 1: conversations about coaching UM and you know, he has a

1568
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 1: certain set of I don't want to call him guidelines,

1569
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: but things that he likes to see his coaching staff

1570
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 1: members having gone through to be able to kind of

1571
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 1: be a part of his staff. And that's that's his right,

1572
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 1: that's his He's earned that ability to kind of pick

1573
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: and choose what he wants his coaching staff's experiences to

1574
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: look like. UM. But Adam Morrison and I've talked about

1575
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: this on a number of times, like when you play

1576
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:39,680
Speaker 1: in the NBA and you've had to have the i

1577
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: Q that he and I had to have, and you

1578
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: had to have the competitiveness and skills, and then you

1579
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 1: go through an NBA career where you're going through film sessions,

1580
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 1: you're going through shoot arounds, you're going through practices, you're

1581
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 1: going through game pregame meetings. You've earned a PhD in

1582
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,960
Speaker 1: the game of basketball, you know, at the NBA level,

1583
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: because you're looking at eight two games times a t

1584
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 1: two scattering reports times at two shoot arounds times an

1585
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,679
Speaker 1: other sixty practices. That's two and a half college years

1586
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 1: seasons in one. And I get it. And I know

1587
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: that at the college level there's a huge emphasis on

1588
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 1: on the recruiting part, which comes with the territory. Um.

1589
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 1: You know. But I liken it too. You know, when

1590
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 1: you've been around something for so long, you've seen it all.

1591
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I don't have a specific philosophy towards

1592
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: this thing or that thing at this moment in time,

1593
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: but I can go back if I were placed in

1594
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 1: this situation where I had to really think about it

1595
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: or put it together. UM, I could go back quickly

1596
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: through my memory banks and figure out, okay, hey, that's

1597
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: what we did in this situation. I like that, or

1598
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 1: I didn't like that, um, you know. And then I

1599
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 1: also did when I did think I was going into coaching,

1600
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: I did put it together philosophy books as far as

1601
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: defense and offense and what I wanted to do if

1602
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 1: I were ever in that position. But I haven't looked

1603
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 1: at those and a good ten years or so since

1604
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 1: the Blazers five me that third time. Last thing you

1605
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 1: mentioned player development, You know, you have your kids, your

1606
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: own and they want to everybody. They want to be

1607
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 1: a player. Um. You know we see so many one

1608
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 1: on cone guys and workout guys. Whatever. If you were

1609
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: to grab and I'm sure you've done this with your

1610
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: own son, but you say, hey, look this is what

1611
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:27,639
Speaker 1: it takes to make it. Um, what what would it be?

1612
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: You know? The trainers, it is what it is. You're

1613
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: gonna see lots of that nowadays. And there's lots of

1614
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 1: money in it for trainers to make the money. And

1615
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm not faulting them at all, um, because if there's

1616
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 1: an opportunity then that you can provide a service, go

1617
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 1: for it. UM. I have an issue when I see

1618
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: trainers doing what you just talked about. One on those

1619
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: stuff with cones. I've seen trainers that have set out

1620
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 1: fifty cones and it's like a zig zag drill and

1621
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,680
Speaker 1: then you pick up a medicine bald toss it in

1622
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:00,600
Speaker 1: one hand while you finish it a lay up with

1623
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 1: the other. That makes no sense because you will never

1624
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 1: do that on a basketball court. When I put my

1625
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 1: son and his friends and teams that where I put

1626
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:13,760
Speaker 1: workouts together and spokene. I've had parents to do that,

1627
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 1: Why why are you doing that? Well? Dot, you have

1628
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: to be able to handle the ball, you have to

1629
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 1: have footwork, you have to be able to shoot it,

1630
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,759
Speaker 1: and then you have to understand the game of how

1631
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: do those things tie into basketball specific situations? Pick and roll, Okay,

1632
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:31,680
Speaker 1: you gotta make pick and roll reads, So come off

1633
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: pick and roll with the handle, make the pass or

1634
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: get your footwork right into a shot. Same thing if

1635
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: you're coming off a down screen, or if you're spacing it,

1636
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,799
Speaker 1: or if you're a postman, catch it, you know, reverse

1637
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 1: pivot face, all those different things that, um, you know,

1638
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: I think are so undervalued and undertaught as opposed to

1639
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 1: the flashy fun stuff. I go back to the comment

1640
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: all the time. I think basketball is over coached and undertaught.

1641
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 1: He gets a great way to look at it. I mean,

1642
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:03,679
Speaker 1: I got we got a big tournament to this weekend.

1643
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 1: I got two practices next two days, and uh, you know,

1644
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: my my my son's like, Dad, why do we we

1645
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: do that? The passing and the footwork stuff, every like,

1646
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: can't we play more? And I was like, no, you'll

1647
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: play this weekend, but you'll play better if you do

1648
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: the passing and the cutting and the footwork stuff. Trust me,

1649
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: trust me the dribbling stuff like it's great. You know,

1650
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: like I I'm he's like big on going through his legs. Now,

1651
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:33,719
Speaker 1: many times I went through my legs when I played

1652
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 1: professional basketball, hardly at all went one way and if

1653
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 1: I didn't like that, I went the other way. It's

1654
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:40,880
Speaker 1: kind of that simple. And if they back up, you

1655
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 1: shoot or you passed the ball, it is it is crazy.

1656
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 1: Very last thing is this, Um, if Gonzaga wins the

1657
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: whole thing because they gotten close and you were a

1658
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,559
Speaker 1: part of the build phase of making it into the

1659
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 1: national brand. You guy, as you said, you were still

1660
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 1: kind of like, what would it mean to you if

1661
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: these guys want these guys want it in terms of

1662
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 1: just how do you think it would feel to you

1663
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 1: for them to win that final game? Uh, tremendous amount

1664
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:21,879
Speaker 1: of pride, you know. Um, each group that had special

1665
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: teams or in teams that felt like they could have

1666
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:29,560
Speaker 1: been the team to one to win a national title. Um.

1667
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 1: Do we probably have disappointment and wish that it would

1668
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 1: have been us, Absolutely without a doubt, but it won't

1669
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: take away any amount of pride that we have for

1670
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: being a part of the building blocks of the program,

1671
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:43,920
Speaker 1: and I don't think it will take away any of

1672
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 1: our excitement for the current group if they're able to

1673
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: get it done. Um, because again, what Gonzaga basketball has

1674
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 1: become over the last years is something that is truly special.

1675
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: And the only thing left is a national title. It's

1676
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: it's the only it's the only thing left. Well, you

1677
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 1: guys built it, and it's out of supreme amount of

1678
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 1: respect that I asked you to come on. I appreciate it.

1679
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 1: I love watching what you're doing with the broadcasting. And uh,

1680
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how gracious you've been with your time.

1681
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Thanks man, Absolutely, thanks Doug. I appreciate it. And uh,

1682
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: we'll have to have you on my podcast again. I

1683
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,639
Speaker 1: know you've been on once. At some point we'll get

1684
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:26,639
Speaker 1: you on a second time. Literally, dude, anytime. Hey, awesome,

1685
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Doug brother Man. So many good parts there

1686
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 1: to uh to Dan's story. Um I just if you listen,

1687
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 1: clearly he wants to he loves to coach, he loves Paul,

1688
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,800
Speaker 1: and UM, I love that those going guys take great

1689
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: pride still in who's playing wearing what we consider their uniform.

1690
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 1: It's one of the great things about when you play

1691
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, played a college and he only played there

1692
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 1: two years. It's also fascinating to me, how you know,

1693
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 1: and this is more a double transfer thing or transfers

1694
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: in general. You you lose most all contact and association

1695
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 1: with that first school. And so if you're going to

1696
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 1: you're going to transfer out. Understand you're kind of out

1697
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 1: of the family. That's that's kind of part of the deal.

1698
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 1: But that that guy made himself into a tremendous college

1699
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:19,160
Speaker 1: basketball player. And uh, played enough in the NBA. I mean,

1700
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 1: you play one day in the NBA s enough for me.

1701
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:23,080
Speaker 1: He played long enough in the NBA to just have

1702
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 1: great stories, great memories. And I really hope you enjoyed

1703
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 1: that kind of trip down a little bit of memory lane.

1704
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 1: Dan is a fantastic analyst as well, and somebody who

1705
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 1: I enjoy his kind of unique perspective. Uh, and and

1706
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 1: a guy who's a basketball guy. And I think that

1707
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: one of the things that US basketball guys do. And

1708
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, you probably are too. You

1709
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 1: just you you struggle to how the rest of the

1710
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 1: world sees the sport. You gotta kind of relay it.

1711
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 1: And I thought, I think he thought he did a

1712
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: great job. So I hope you enjoyed that. That's a

1713
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 1: two part episode. Even miss part one should download that.

1714
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: That's why he went to Washington is upbringing all kinds

1715
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,599
Speaker 1: of different stuff. And remember to listen to Doug Gotlieve

1716
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:05,400
Speaker 1: Show three or six Eastern twelve three Pacific, Fox Sport Tradio,

1717
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:08,400
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app or Fox Sport tradeo dot com.

1718
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 1: You can also download that as a podcast. Uh subscribe, download, subscribe,

1719
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 1: rate writer review, Just do it. Takes a couple of seconds.

1720
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: It ends up helping us out and tell a friend

1721
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 1: about this. Tweet it out. You like it, you don't

1722
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 1: like it. I thought it was a great discussion. That's

1723
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 1: That's a lot of meat to chew on as your

1724
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:30,840
Speaker 1: drive around. Have a safe and merry Christmas, a happy

1725
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:33,800
Speaker 1: New Year. We'll keep pumping out these all balls. You know,

1726
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:35,960
Speaker 1: if you guys have guests you want to hear there's

1727
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 1: things you like. Tweet quotes. There's been incredible response to

1728
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,440
Speaker 1: to this podcast from so many of my friends in basketball.

1729
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,479
Speaker 1: Enjoy it, enjoy the hoops. We'll talk soon. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

1730
01:33:46,720 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: This is all ball Taper Limperper limp